lore-and-universe

[royal relic]

not even Halsey esque, it's known adults have harder time to adjust to new materials being inserted into their body, even if they're inert ones, or suitable stem cell transplants today even has issues

and these are basic level augmentations only to aid adults from stemming their diseases

[empty bloom]

Which is why you do it with a wider pool at shorter intervals.

Not with kids.

Or you go the easier metallic augmentation route, but Halo's averse to that as a franchise.

Not to mention the moral and ethical considerations, which are great enough that I consider it necessary to consider them.

[royal relic]

if you do it with wider pool at shorter intervals, you are going to run with a MUCH higher genetic variance that needs you to adjust your augmentation for every candidate, gambling on getting it right as you have no baseline that goes right to begin with, resulting in mostly dead washouts, some cripples, and few successful augments that reads of what becomes with Orion candidates.... " develop severe side effects from their augmentations, that ranged from physical to mental illnesses."

[empty bloom]

Right, because the 50% failure rate of the IIs with a bottleneck of 150 was so much better.

Especially because, in their hubris, they did all the augs, at once.

[ruby canopy]

It was only a pool of 75

[empty bloom]

Oh even better

[ruby canopy]

It actually is

[empty bloom]

Not really.

[ruby canopy]

50% at such a small pool is not as bad as it sounds

[empty bloom]

Shrug.

[carmine sleet]

I think if you're using kids to make super soldiers, regardless of the benefits down the line, you're doing something messed up

Like, I love that Halo shows some of the worst of humanity via what is done to the Spartans, but that doesn't change the fact that child soldiers are never acceptable

[royal relic]

if anything, considering the potentially wider pool and FAR LESS demanding augmentations, Orion only having 165, assuming from the number of the Phase 2 attempt claim, is a far larger disappointment

[empty bloom]

Anyways, experience is the best teacher. UNSC has cloning facilities and cybernetics, enough medical experience to treat cancer as a mild breeze and shorten telomeres. Logically they likely could've proven out Orions IIs properly by the time the IIIs first got augged-doing the job of putting together the Orions with a wider net but smaller augmentations, learning with parallel programs (which were a thing btw-ONI agents were frequently augmented).

[ruby canopy]

It’s morally questionable, sure. But that theoretically makes the ultimate soldier. The best for a combination of reasons

[carmine sleet]

That doesn't make using kids ok

[empty bloom]

Without, and may I reiterate, needing to funnel resources into the twin boondoggles of the II and III programs.

[carmine sleet]

Like, children should be playing games in playgrounds and having fun

[empty bloom]

Because those resources don't just disappear because you don't make the IIs or IIIs. Those scientists don't just explode into meat paste. They get put on other projects.

[royal relic]

even if they can proven out Orion by the time of S-III, they are still far less capable specimen than either S-II, S-III, or even S-IV due to the nature of less ambitious program that is Orion

[empty bloom]

I see literally nothing wrong with that.

[ruby canopy]

That’s dependent on culture. In the west that is our idea. But an example would be the Caucasus region. They are an incredibly hardy people, because a lot of them grow up prepared for war

[royal relic]

literally all the pivotal battles that are won by S-IIs and S-IIIs would've been lost by Orion personnel, and I'm saying that will all the respect I can give them since they are nowhere near as augmented, and would end in the defeat of humanity being accelerated

[empty bloom]

I don't agree with your hypothetical.

[carmine sleet]

That comes across as trying to justify subjecting children to the horrors of war

[empty bloom]

Pointedly because, due to changing the fundamental combatants, the approach to the missions themselves would change so significantly that the intro and outcome would be utterly unrecognizable.

You don't cook a fish by throwing vegan steak on a pan. You cook a fish by throwing a fish on the pan.

[ruby canopy]

If your region is war torn and the region is always on the verge of war, there is no better option really

[empty bloom]

And if you don't have fish, you don't make fish for dinner.

[royal relic]

that would only matter if it's a different specialization between said combatants, like a Army Ranger battalion versus Force Recon battalion

[empty bloom]

It matters from square zero.

[royal relic]

Orion, in every way, is the inferior soldier

no matter how you change the mission, it's like comparing an F-3 car to F-1

or Sopwith Camel to F-22A

[empty bloom]

Do you just like

[carmine sleet]

An area being war torn doesn't justify making a child fight

[empty bloom]

Not listen to what I say

Like, I thought I was being pretty clear, but apparently you're still confused.

[ruby canopy]

If that is all those people know, then it unfortunately does

[royal relic]

I hear you, but the fundamental change between SPARTAN programmes vs Orion is like you're switching out Delta Force for some backwater 3rd world "special forces group"

and I'm trying not to make the Orion guys sound bad, but that's basically is the difference

[empty bloom]

You clearly don't, considering everything you said past the first comma.

[royal relic]

okay, you know what, I'll make this easier to understand

it's like switching out a guy who has been playing Halo for the last decades LASO only to a guy who plays Hard

[empty bloom]

Not really.

[ruby canopy]

Seeing it from a region that has been peaceful and prosperous for so long it does come across as horrific. But from a region that has only known war for centuries, it is not all that horrific, more of just a reality

[empty bloom]

Not a matter of a difference in knowledge.

You're working off of your presumptions of what then performance gulf is, when it's a hypothetical you asked me to make, and what I said I would do.

I provided reasons, you proceed to ignore them like this is a training exercise-regardless of the logical reallocation, you advocate for the resources and changes never occuring, despite the fact they logically would occur, because a small change in policy can have grave impacts. The nature of a thing impacts the environments it is thrust upon.

If the Orion program continued, the nature of the Orion program would change in accordance with the environment it found itself in.

This occurred with the II program, this occurred with the III program, and it occurred with the IV program.

The difference in engagement behaviors would fundamentally change the flow of the events the Orion II hypothetical encounters and engages. No event is an island.

You're acting like I am unaware of the differences, when I am painfully aware of and accommodating them.

[empty bloom]

I was trying to allude to all of this above, but you just didn't listen.

[royal relic]

I didn't say it wouldn't change, I say the baseline where it starts is basically so much lower that, knowing the very limited success of Orion, plus the removal of the successes both Spartan programs with their screwed up methods to build the technical foundation of better augmentation process, would mean the program, even if it changes once humanity met the Covenant and resulted in process to make later Orion batches better, would lag behind what Spartan program is as we know it, and would see humanity defeated earlier, because you're just ending up with inferior soldiers, with inferior equipment, than the equivalent Spartan of the same era

[empty bloom]

I mean, considering I also think the Spartan IIs were a boondoggle for over 30 years until one did a funny ringpop and the IIIs weren't even initially made for the missions they died on, I don't really see what Spartans have to do with the war as a whole in a context that would invalidate an Orion II hypothetical.

The UNSC Navy ultimately had a greater impact until the statistical outlier became one.

'But what about Red Team' is a reach and anyone sane should know it.

[stoic hamlet]

Statistical anomalies don’t justify a program’s worth.

[royal relic]

as infantry, they had relatively limited effect on the large scale of the galactic war for the most part, yes, but the small victories and sacrifices they made bought time that ended up lining up and allow that one that got lucky and do a ring pop that triggers the great schism that ultimately results in human victory....

Orion would struggle to even reach the same effect, and that's best scenario

[empty bloom]

Pretty much how I view it. Makes me wonder why I even like this franchise.

Oh wait. I considered it second rate until IVs were a thing. Right.

[stoic hamlet]

If we really wanted to say a Spartan generation was effective then the III’s are all we’ve got, because they were made to do what the II’s couldn’t - actually strike at the enemy’s territory.

At least during the war.

[empty bloom]

Also, wouldn't the geas crap have still happened even without the IIs?

If manipulation of that degree is even a thing, the hypothetical Orion II would've somehow found success in the major events anyways due to the aforementioned plot contrivance of the Geas.

The nature versus the form.

I mostly brought that up for fun, btw, I actually hate the whole 'Geas' thing.

[bronze prawn]

what are we arguing ?

[empty bloom]

Read up.

[royal relic]

yes and no, the geas has some influence but they aren't that overbearing

[bronze prawn]

they more than 50 messages dude

[empty bloom]

It's the funni plot contrivance gene

[empty bloom]

And I read Epitaph over the course of an hour flight.

[bronze prawn]

the "GEAS" stuff

[royal relic]

for example, one of the key success of Spartan program is the synergistic relationship with MJOLNIR program, which only binds together because of a certain scientist/engineer/whatever she feels to be today at this point's meddling

[empty bloom]

Considering half the reason MJOLNIR even got the funding it did literally canonically because said scientist had AIs dismantle and steal from other projects, I hesitate to strongly say it's a flawless idea.

[royal relic]

it's not, but let me explain

[empty bloom]

Especially since power armor was already being prototyped for Orions.

[royal relic]

that it did, but it was pretty basic and only had some pieces in field testing and never really got to actual full suit, and MELAENO, unlike MJOLNIR, was an extra program ONI added on top of Orion to better equip them and not something that's organically linked from the ground up between the two

[stoic hamlet]

I wouldn’t really say MJOLNIR was intended at the very beginning, tbf.

It became so, but it wasn’t exactly part of things from the get go.

[ruby canopy]

What I always find interesting is how hellcat armor says SII had almost perfect synchronization with while SIVs required additional acclimation

[royal relic]

do we really want to argue Halsey come up with the idea of how to equip said supersoldier after coming up with the idea of said supersoldier to begin with and have this difference while in blueprint

vs Orion already augmented while the armor is basically proposed

like, come on

[stoic hamlet]

MJOLNIR was added during the proposal, but it wasn’t technically an intentional aspect, at least not to what HIGHCOM thought.

Obviously Halsey had her own ideas.

[royal relic]

anyway this fundamental difference in approach to engineering both programmes would result in Orion-MELAENO not able to reach the same heights Spartan-MJOLNIR does, and while I'm sure given enough time MELAENO would advance, Spartan-MJOLNIR combo only really get that high due to the vision and ambitions Halsey pushed forward, something that, unless there's a real MAJOR shake-up between Orion-MELAENO's leadership to pull the handbrake and change direction drastically, will never start happening to close that performance gap

... there is one good news for this approach though

due to the less ambitious nature of the armor, and how it later leads up to SPI... there's a good chance in this future, there will be wider adoption of SPI-equivalent in this version of UNSC

maybe even ODST specific SPI variant

SPI fans rejoice!

[pearl edge]

Damn, y'all supposed to write paragraphs here?

[bronze prawn]

so in theory

[pearl edge]

(I mean, I'm not complaining. Good reading )

[bronze prawn]

the Iso Didact has the highest kill count in the halo universe rigth ?

[tribal trench]

define kill count

[cunning path]

No matter how you define it, it’s still true, he did after all activate the halo array and then also proceeded to lead his fellow forerunners out of the galaxy and discard their tech for a simpler life

[tribal trench]

I mean

[cunning path]

So he not only killed off the entire galaxy, he also possibly caused the extinction of the Forerunners and denying their reseeding, save for a few lucky ones with weird circumstances

Also love your dune pfp

[tribal trench]

are Flood forms alive? Is it one entity, or multiple? Is each spore a separate kill, or just the combat forms?

did he even kill them or just starve them? does starvation count?

[cunning path]

Technically he did both. If I’m not mistaken halo rings kill the higher functioning flood forms and their food sources, and leave the flood spores to starve and wither away

And I’d say any action resulting in the death of another would attribute to one’s kill count

[bronze prawn]

i mean

theres still this forerruner faction or tribe

in a book call " the nothings" or some crap like that

[cunning path]

You mean the ones in Path Kethona that were the descendants of the martyrs after the cleansing of the precursors? Or the faction that left the galaxy with Bornstellar

[bronze prawn]

IDK

just that they are in a single planet with various names

[carmine sleet]

Those weren't Forerunners on Netherop, that was Precursor

[bronze prawn]

yeah those, never understand those

[cunning path]

Ohhhhh that’s who they were talking about. I was so confused, I was treating my brain like an archive and scrolling through the forerunner section

[cunning path]

Alright so basically the Precursors can’t really die, at least not in the way we think of it as they’re in a constant form of evolving and changing and can manipulate their own DNA to become anything really, it’s why some became the very dust that resulted in the flood. The one on Netherop are very likely a similar case to this. It should also be noted that at some point, should 343 return to this, Bastion will result in the return of the precursors, which could be good or bad

[bronze prawn]

are those on "netherop" baddies or gudies ?

i dont speak english so IDK if that the words

[cunning path]

I mean, the Precursors aren’t good or bad, like technically the flood has every right to lash out against its creations and punish them for their sins, I don’t think precursors can be relegated to “good or bad”, it would just be our perspective if it’s a good thing or a bad thing yk?

[bronze prawn]

yeah sure, for our perspective

[cunning path]

Since they’re quite literally gods

[bronze prawn]

are they ?

[cunning path]

With their ability to manipulate their own evolution and appearance at will, their boundless knowledge, their hyper advanced technology, and the fact they created the species of the Milky Way, yea, pretty much

[tribal trench]

gods, worshipped as

god is not canon to Halo

or at the very least he has not made an appearance

[cunning path]

Also to my knowledge only a small portion of Path Kethona was explored, nothing past where the forerunners killed the last precursors

[cunning path]

My intention wasn’t to insinuate he was

[bronze prawn]

yeah i read some on halopedia

[tribal trench]

I'm saying deities dont exist

[bronze prawn]

what happened after the banished got there ?

with the "nothing"

[tribal trench]

the precursors and forerunners were both extremely technologically advanced

neither were gods

[cunning path]

The precursors were far more advanced, and their abilities being far beyond anything either Ancient Humanity or Forerunners ever accomplished. Their abilities and just how they act, I don’t think there’s anything better but to describe them as gods

Creating species, destroying species and starting again, traveling galaxies

[bronze prawn]

its accepted that the precursors allowed the forerruners to extint them

[cunning path]

Manipulating their own appearance at will and their evolution, and constant cycle of death and rebirth.

[bronze prawn]

are the endless part of their creation ?

[cunning path]

They’d have to be since they seeded life throughout galaxies

Also taken from Halopedia “they were described as "dreamers and makers whose minds transcended many realms and having infinite forms, many voices, and singular purpose". From Halo: Warfleet, pg. 92

[bronze prawn]

why would the endless have issues with humanity

[tribal trench]

The forerunners did all of the above, for the record

[cunning path]

The Precursors originated outside the Milky Way and arrived in the galaxy billions of years ago.[11] They were an incredibly advanced race of beings who explored many galaxies and seeded them with life over the course of many billions of years as part of a grand experiment. Halo: Warfleet, pg. 8

[tribal trench]

Yes?

[cunning path]

They did it at a far grander scale

Also I can’t think of a time forerunners created species and then destroyed them at will

[tribal trench]

Huragok

[cunning path]

Huragok weren’t destroyed at will and were more biological computers than an actual species. They are organic machines

The forerunners also didn’t seed all life in multiple galaxies. They were highly advanced, sure, but they didn’t really do anything comparable to the precursors

[tribal trench]

Not on the same scale, but they did undoubtedly have the capability for it

[cunning path]

“The Huragok were created by the Forerunners' Builders prior to the activation of the Halo Array with nanocellular technology to serve as maintenance, repair, and enhancement engineers.[3][21][22] They served as "servant-tools" to the Builders, the highest rate in Forerunner society. The Lifeworkers also employed a type of Huragok specializing in living things and medicine rather than machinery, though they were rarer than the Builder variety.” Halo 3, Bestiarum, Halo Waypoint, Cryptum Glossary, Halo: Broken Circle, pages 78-79, Halo: Last Light, Chapter 9, page 130

They were more tools than living organisms made by complex technology

[tribal trench]

But they were - are - living organisms

[bronze prawn]

everything in the halo universe was created by the precursors

[tribal trench]

actually false

[bronze prawn]

the huragok is something you see in your penthouse in high charity

[tribal trench]

the stars and the galaxies were not created by the precursors

[bronze prawn]

fair point

[tribal trench]

all life was not created by the precursors

[cunning path]

They are not comparable to actual living organisms that breathe, eat, sleep, produce waste, dream, etc. they are highly complex machines that merely imitate being alive

[tribal trench]

just some of it

[tribal trench]

They do all the things you listed

[cunning path]

“The Huragok are not a natural, biological species at all, but rather an artificial life form created by the Forerunners. While they possess no true tissues or organs, their nanomechanical surrogates so closely mimic their biological analogs that they seem almost indistinguishable to observers.” Halo 3, Bestiarum

They are not truly alive

Not like what the precursors did, or even close

[ruby canopy]

I would argue that just because something is a mechanical being it doesn’t make it any less alive than a biological one

This was somewhat explored in Halo 4 with Chief and Cortana as to what it means to be ‘human’ or ‘alive’

[cunning path]

Okay fair enough, but my point in saying it isn’t alive is strictly to combat the notion that Forerunners also created life and we’re capable of similar feats like what the Precursors did

The Huragok are less a species land more a machine

While they’re highly advanced no doubt, they’re still a machine, and not a life, like a what was crafted by the hands of precursors, which is why I called them for lack of better terms, literal gods

[ruby canopy]

I don’t think forerunners were on the precursors level for sure in terms of a technological level. But I would argue to create any life mechanical or biological is similarly impressive. Mechanical life would actually be more advanced, because mechanical processes are thousands of times faster than biological processes

[cunning path]

Because that’s simply just what best describes them, because while no god actually is confirmed to exist or not, the precursors heavily fill that role

[ruby canopy]

If mechanical life were at all possible it would be infinitely more efficient than biological life

[cunning path]

Sure, when it’s 1:1, but these are 1,000,000,000,000:1 varying in all sorts of capabilities, intelligence, creations, things we haven’t even seen yet in the Halo universe

[ruby canopy]

Cortana for instance. In terms of creativity and intelligence there is no human, even Halsey, on her level

[cunning path]

Yea, and that’s fair. But have you looked at the precursor AI abaddon? Think of how much more advanced it is, if it’s even capable of being more advanced than the precursors

[ruby canopy]

That depends on if the precursors themselves are biological or mechanical. And whether or not they put limits on abaddon

[cunning path]

They’re biological I’m pretty sure

[ruby canopy]

In no way can biological processes compete with mechanical. Think about what Cortana was capable of in her very limited life

We’re talking less than a decade of life

[cunning path]

Except we don’t know what the precursors we’re capable of but we know they far exceeded anything forerunners did. So sure, forerunners made an artificial life which is impressive, the precursors made billions of lives varying in capabilities and intelligence, size, etc.

[latent pewter]

Oh yeah, so I haven’t really paid much attention to how ‘Fractures’ works, so is it like an alternate universe in each one?

[empty bloom]

Kinda sorta. Eaglestrike and Yoroi are both completely alternate universes.

Chimera's variants are alternate universes, but one Executor (Created-made Spartan equivelant) is actually hanging around in mainline canon.

[latent pewter]

So Chimera is like.. If Cortana won basically?

Machine-Human hybrid?

[empty bloom]

Not quite. More like "What if the Created went whole hog on making spartan-likes".

[latent pewter]

Ah

[bronze prawn]

so, now that cortana is dead

the created are .... ?

[unique rune]

Broken up into various splinter factions

[latent pewter]

||So how exactly did Atriox delete Cortana?||

Spoiled for those who haven’t played the campaign yet

[ruby canopy]

He didn’t

[latent pewter]

Oh

Damn I need to play again to properly understand what went down

[ruby canopy]

Enough spoilers for halo infinite have been shared so I think it’s safe

[bronze prawn]

cortana kinda commit suicide

for an AI

[latent pewter]

I thought atriox off’d her?

[ruby canopy]

No, he actually wanted to use her and the halo. And to stop that from happening she sacrificed herself

[latent pewter]

Ohhhh

I see

[ruby canopy]

She was looking to take Atriox with her, but he somehow survived, which I’m not sure how he did

I imagine he survived with help from either offensive bias or the harbinger

[bronze prawn]

why would offensive bias help him

[ruby canopy]

I’m not sure. At the end you see him using some kind of device which I imagine was offensive bias

He either coerced bias or bias seen it as beneficial to help him

If he was helped by offensive bias, which I’m not totally sure about

[latent pewter]

Where would offensive bias even be? Do we ever get even a glimpse of him?

[bronze prawn]

maybe he just find a thing to liberate the endless

[ruby canopy]

I believe that device at the end of infinite that you see Atriox use is him. And with the dialogue it seems very likely it was indeed offensive bias

[latent pewter]

I totally forgot the ending so, I’ll take you for it lol

It has been ages since I actually did the story

[bronze prawn]

"offensive bias has been depleted"

[latent pewter]

I just went through recently to get Act of Genesis

[ruby canopy]

The legendary ending has dialogue at the end cutscene which adds a lot of important information

[latent pewter]

Ah

Oh wait, I think I somehow got that too but on Heroic

Because I remember seeing Atriox at the end

Maybe no dialogue but I saw him

[ruby canopy]

It’s the same ending for all difficulties, but legendary it has dialogue

[empty bloom]

So did any of you submit any questions for the Canon Fodder questions?

[latent pewter]

Ohhh

That makes sense

[ruby canopy]

I did not, didn’t even know they were taking questions

[empty bloom]

I think they do it on Reddit only. Unsure.

[ruby canopy]

Oh. I don’t have Reddit

I have to depend on questions from others

[empty bloom]

Good. Don't.

I submitted a question about why Librarian was riding her husbands helmet in Halo 4.

[bronze prawn]

half of us get our halo anwers from reddit

[empty bloom]

If they aren't being answered by me they're probably wrong :3

[hot zodiac]

Both Trenchbird and reddit Halo are probably wrong tbh

[empty bloom]

I'm right a lot, when I'm not being a jerk or pointing out explicitly that canon is getting itself wrong.

Or talking about Wars, or Forerunner stuff.

Because Forerunner-Precursor stuff suuuuuucks.

[hot zodiac]

There are some really sharp axes around here.

[empty bloom]

Then why feel the need to grind them?

[hot zodiac]

Can't start lacking now!

[empty bloom]

Nah though that's like

Not even an ego thing

On my part

But you may've been joking and I just didn't pick up on it

[empty bloom]

Anyways better subjects aside

This actually confuses the bejeezus out of me

It's so weird

[bronze prawn]

maybe he want a souvenir of his husband

or its the forerruner equivelant of a tatoo of your lover

[empty bloom]

The Didact lived on in her sole(s).

[bronze prawn]

maybe 343 run out of idea of how to make the librarian float

[golden basin]

is the space inside the Onyx shield world essentially an enclosed solar system or something?

Its diameter is 2 AU... that's huge

[latent pewter]

AU.. Astronomical Units?

[golden basin]

Yes

[latent pewter]

Then I’d say it’s likely there’s a bit of solar system in there, yeah

[golden basin]

https://www.halopedia.org/Sarcophagus#/media/File:Enc22_OnyxInterior.jpg

Judging from this picture... that's a moon up there

[ruby canopy]

I don’t think it’s a literal solar system, but time is slower in there than outside

[latent pewter]

There’s an even smaller one on the bottom right of that big moon in the top centre

[unique rune]

Surely it's gotta just be some kind of... asset conservation thing they hoped no one would ever notice.

[empty bloom]

Yeah, but what would scifi be without unnecessary pedantry?

[unique rune]

This is true

[tropic forge]

Yeah, it even grabbed a couple of the planets from the outside when it popped back up into realspace---there are 2-3 planets orbiting the star inside Onyx.

[golden basin]

So it's a dyson sphere with surface on the inside of the sphere itself, and now we got orbiting planets inside its star as well?

Jeez louize

[tropic forge]

Onyx beeg.

[golden basin]

2 AU is thicc

[latent pewter]

Huge even

[golden basin]

2 AU diameter is 300 MILLION kilometers.

[latent pewter]

Damn

That’s at least the size of a quarter

Maybe 2 even!

[last anchor]

Why donyou think the UNSC moved whole families inside to live there

[stoic hamlet]

Well for its historic schools, of course.

[red grove]

what is a covenant blockade runner?

[carmine sleet]

It's a Sangheili made ship that dates back to before the Covenant. They're used for what they're named for, running blockades

[empty bloom]

Old school Covenant/Sangheili vessel that saw more use post-HCW.

Apparently it's loosely based off of the visuals of a Sanghelios fish.

[bronze prawn]

how did it go in combat ?

[empty bloom]

What do you mean by 'how did it go'?

[bronze prawn]

How did the ship fare in combat

[empty bloom]

Uh... Alright, I guess. There's nothing particularly standout about it.

They have stealth systems, good amount of beam emitters, plasma torp launchers. It has better scanning systems than most human vessels but most newer Covenant ships are still too stealthy for it.

[red grove]

whats its purpose

[empty bloom]

Look at the name.

Runs blockades.

[red grove]

ok

[bronze prawn]

i dont think the covenant needed to run blockades

[empty bloom]

It's a breakthrough vessel, meant to get through formations and flank from there.

[red grove]

what are blockades in space like space debris

[empty bloom]

Earlier parts of their history, it was their primary naval doctrine.

Not necessarily 'blockades' but more just enemy ship formations.

[red grove]

ohh

[empty bloom]

It's why the torp launchers of the blockade runner are mostly rear-mounted.

[bronze prawn]

looks more like an amalgame of CAS and CRS

[empty bloom]

In terms of soft factors, new crews tend to hate Blockade Runners due to being designed and built 2000 years ago.

[red grove]

so the masive engine looking thing is torpedo launchers

[empty bloom]

So they are a patchwork of internal modifications for brutes and grunts and such, and even the ones still built and kitted for elites, they have things that would've made sense 2000 years ago but are just uncomfortable and weird to modern elites.

Apparently elites used to like scented air systems and subsonic droning hymns.

Kinda neat worldbuilding, tbh./

[red grove]

can see that

[bronze prawn]

so now a bit off topic but how truth manage to find earth ? and gather a fleet of over 500 ships

you dont gather 500 ships " in secret" just like that

[stoic hamlet]

Finding earth we have no idea.

But collecting 500 ships in secret isn’t that difficult when your society is quasi feudal and you hold ultimate authority.

It’s not like a modern day military apparatus, after all, but dozens of ministries all working against each other for power and prestige.

[red grove]

i think they didint know earth was the origin of the unsc

[carmine sleet]

Regret didn't when he arrived, I think Truth might've

[red grove]

about the eligal smoothers would odsts know what they are

[empty bloom]

Illegal. And no.

Unless they needed to for some reason.

[red grove]

ok

[empty bloom]

But they shouldn't even know what kind of Spartans the Spartans involved are if the Spartans are anything other than a IV.

[red grove]

what if a spartan gives a odst some smoothers to pass on to another spartan would they like think about it or just dont care about what they just had in their hands

[unique rune]

That transfer probably wouldn't happen in the first place, and if it did then the non-Spartan doesn't need to know any more than "this is very important and the reason for it is need-to-know only"

[red grove]

what if they see a gamma using it

[unique rune]

...Why would they care?

They don't know about the specifics of Spartan augmentations, nor would they know what's in the injection version of the smoothers.

You wouldn't look at someone using an Epi-pen and go "that's suspicious"

[red grove]

alright thats good

[empty bloom]

There's no reason the average IIIG would even be in danger of needing to deploy a smoother around nonSpartan friendlies in the first place unless it's a handler. You don't need to make up drama to make up drama-that's a pretty inorganic way of doing it.

[red grove]

ok

[empty bloom]

Also, some smoother kits are subdermal, and I assume those would be the norm around friendlies on longer term deployments.

[latent pewter]

Smoothers?

[red grove]

elegal drugs

[latent pewter]

Illegal drugs huh?

For Spartans?

[unique rune]

Anti-psychotic meds used by Spartan-III Gamma company to counteract the effects of some additional augmentations that Kurt added into the mix

[latent pewter]

Oh wait.. I feel like I recognize that from the Onyx novels

[red grove]

kurt is a ii

[unique rune]

Yeah, and...?

He was a big part of Spartan-III

He helped oversee the entire program

[red grove]

i thought he had gamma comp augments

[red grove]

i heard that

[unique rune]

No? He didn't reaugment himself as part of the process

[red grove]

so hes a hybrid

[unique rune]

No, I just said he isn't

[red grove]

ooh ok

would be a cool idea to

[unique rune]

I'm gonna go with no

[empty bloom]

Illegal.

[red grove]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

[empty bloom]

Smoothers themselves aren't illegal, though.

[red grove]

huh

?

[empty bloom]

Mhmmn.

There's nothing wrong with them, it's a basic chemical sedative.

The illegality is the brain modifying augmentation, which is kind of a moot thing to have as 'illegal' considering you're already augmenting children.

[red grove]

ohh

i first thought bfr gamma company is the stupidest thing to exist in the spartan field but they became kind of cooler concept over time

[empty bloom]

They're kinda stupid as a concept, IMO, but then, how IIIs got used in general to me is kinda dumb.

[red grove]

but the idea of these mass produced supper soldiers cursed to use these drugs for the rest of their lives is kind of good when worded this way

[empty bloom]

That sounded cool as a concept when I was like, 12, and didn't really understand how much of a liability that actually is.

[red grove]

well for me its the oposite

[unique rune]

I never really cared for the extra augs/smoothers and always found them just. Strange, conceptually? Like I get in the novel the idea was to make them "fight harder" under duress, but grinding down their ability for rational thought just seems counterproductive to me.

So I always thought it was just a bit whatever.

[red grove]

they dont realy go berserk they just go ferral like animal

[unique rune]

And I think nowadays it just gets in the way of making use of the Gammas in new media because 343 largely just pushes them out of view because of the consequences of those augmentations.

[red grove]

yeh

[empty bloom]

A lot of very early decisions made in Halo's canon have kinda crippling modern interpretations of the franchise in terms of both audience expectations and desired universe depictions.

Gammas fall in the side of the spectrum of negative because they're

• Hard to work with
• Hard to write about
• Don't fit amazingly well into normal stories
• Are mostly hard to technobabble around

And while IVs can make convenient cannon fodder no-names, Gammas kinda can't, because they were just kinda thrown everywhere and don't really "Spartan".

[red grove]

heh

[red grove]

they are hart to work with but not to write about

[empty bloom]

They are hard to write about and actually make good writing around.

If you aren't concerned with making an actually good story about Spartans, sure, I guess they're easy to write about. But that's like saying it's easy to write about a Hunter's perspective.

Like, sure, if you don't actually care about doing the concept justice, and just kinda write whatever drivel comes to mind, sure, yeah, it's easy.

[stoic hamlet]

They don’t even go feral.

They just get paranoid. They’re still cognizant and rational thinkers. They just make leaps in logic, but only based on actual evidence.

[red grove]

ok

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, on the topic of smoothers and etc, no one would bat an eye.

UNSC forces use combat stimulants religiously, they’d just assume it’s a Spartan only stim.

[red grove]

good

is it posible for a spartan to cut a bullet being shot at them

[stoic hamlet]

It’s not really a liability though, from Divine Wind, we know basically any medical hospital can manufacture them, and we’ve seen Gammas make a supply last over a year.

The liability is placing Gammas on long term undercover ops… because that makes any amount of sense.

[stoic hamlet]

Probably not.

They perceive time in basically slow motion, but not that slow. This isn’t the matrix.

It also goes against everything they’ve been trained to do. From Last Light, we know the training is so ingrained it’s basically second nature.

[unique rune]

Why would you cut a bullet coming at you in the first place...?

[stoic hamlet]

Like they would need to physically try and resist their body’s motions, that’s how ingrained it is.

[empty bloom]

Chief slapping the missile is also both really dumb and only done because Cortana.

[stoic hamlet]

^^^

[red grove]

wanted to know if they could

[unique rune]

You're just giving it two opportunities to hit something now

[stoic hamlet]

They’re not anime protagonists.

They’re brutally efficient, machine-logical soldiers. They’d do the least amount of work for the most amount of gain because it’s more efficient that way.

[red grove]

but can they do it if they wanted to not in combat circumstances

[stoic hamlet]

No. They’re not that fast.

[red grove]

damn all that reflex augmentations and they cant cut a bullet like a human in 20th century

[empty bloom]

???

[last anchor]

You cant cut a bullet with a sword. Thats an anime thing.

Best of luck pulling the trigger to do so without instantly getting Mozambique drilled with an M6

[last anchor]

Im fairly certain there are in fact Spartan-only stims anyway.
Their biology means they can take levels of stimulant and chemicals that would cause a normal human to sieze up and die.

Ref; Arianna in the Rubble casually drinking amounts of alcohol that wuld send a regular human into alcoholic posioning shock

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

From memory, Olivia was drugged with enough to kill a person, but it just made her kind of woozy.

[last anchor]

That being said, I kind of like the Gammers augs and their possibilities.
But then, I am also a 40k player, and seeing a massively augmented supersoldier go completely off their rocker and just...butcher an enemy because they think its the dude who killed their dad 10,000 years ago is pretty sweet, so.

Hell yes, Blood Angels Death Company +3 attacks on the Charge babbyyyy

+4 if you got the Death Visions of Sanguinous on the squad leader

[stoic hamlet]

Did you know the author who wrote a few Blood Angels stuff wrote Breaking Strain? Once you clock it’s a 40K author, the prose makes a lot more sense.

[wise snow]

So I’ve read about how Kurt would go on to become sort of the overseer and recruiter for the Spartan-III program, were they any Spartan-IIs or IIIs that fulfilled the same role for the IV program?

[bronze prawn]

pretty much the spartan 4s dont need "training" just to be reclute

as more of 4s have military past

ODST, marines, agents, pilots ....

[tribal trench]

Jun

He did a lot of recruiting and training for the early IVs

See Halo: Bad Blood

[red grove]

iya: 18
caboot: 17
hilda: 17
ravi: 19
mirra: 16 (before fall of reach) (gamma)

is this a lore accurate spartan team

of age

[tribal trench]

which spartans, what year

[red grove]

a year and a half from fall of reach

[tribal trench]

assuming SIIIs then yeah

[red grove]

ye iiis

[last anchor]

Well, hell.

Im still mad I didnt get the chance to get my copy of Evolutions signed by the dude who wrote Headhunters a few years back...so close

[empty bloom]

So far we have not had a single Spartan IV who lacked a military past and was 100% confirmed as a post-Beta IV.

[red grove]

if theres betas then what are alphas

[empty bloom]

N/A.

I'm using the term 'beta' to describe the pre-Spartan IV Spartan IVs, which were adult augmentees who were augmented to the point of being able to stand against a Spartan wearing MJOLNIR on relatively equal footing, which failed because it had an even more abhorrent failiure rate than the II program (1 of the 10 subjects was killed; The sole survivor was rendered insane)

[red grove]

oki

[brittle wadi]

Weren’t the Grunts tribal and when The Covenant discovered them they were incredibly stupid and easily manipulated to be part of The Covenant?

Lore is fuzzy

[unique rune]

No

[bronze prawn]

the grunts as every covenant species were just minding their own bussiness

[unique rune]

We don't know much about life on pre-Covenant Unggoy but for the most part they were forced into joining because it absolutely sucks to live on Balaho and they were pretty much entirely defenseless against the Covenant

[brittle wadi]

Yeah I didn’t remember any of that

All I remember is someone told me Grunts were tribal and incredibly stupid. Covenant found them and went from there

But I learned something lol

[stoic hamlet]

If it’s alphas and betas, they’re too young. Gamma is definitely too old..

Gamma Company didn’t deploy until the week of October 23rd 2552. They didn’t see action during the war in any capacity.

[red grove]

were gammas present in reach

[empty bloom]

No.

[stoic hamlet]

No, again, the company wasn’t deployed until the week of October 23rd, 2552. About two months later.

[red grove]

ahhhhhh

i fugin drew a whole chapter

[empty bloom]

This is why you do timeline research on your own time.

Most fanfic authors do not do that.

Most fanfic authors are also trash.

[stoic hamlet]

I also doubt you’d see them separated from their established fireteams.

[red grove]

i did

[empty bloom]

No offense intended, but clearly not very well.

[stoic hamlet]

Teamwork is everything for the III’s, they’d stick with their teams as much as possible. It’s how they were trained,

You likely wouldn’t see a random Gamma assigned to an entire other team.

[empty bloom]

I'd redouble your search efforts best you could.

[red grove]

ok f it we ball

halo tv show didint care so can i

[stoic hamlet]

I’d recommend reading the books themselves, for what it’s worth.

Better research than asking random questions on discord.

[red grove]

no

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, I feel like that’s kind of a prerequisite to, you know, read the source material, but evidently not.

[red grove]

i dont think i would be able to rememember dates well from a book

[stoic hamlet]

That’s why you make notes :p

That’s what you’re supposed to do for research.

[red grove]

i can do a redo like evangelion does

no harm in that was going to at a point

[empty bloom]

Good habits build good practices builds good work.

You can't write good material if your fundamental processes are flawed.

Choosing to crap on people attempting to help just sours future effort. EtCan's a good listening choice, I recommend following his advice.

[red grove]

nah im just realy in a stiky situation i am taking ur advice but i cant realy undo a whole chapter

[empty bloom]

You can. Easily.

[red grove]

how

i cant realy un imagine a whole character

[empty bloom]

... Did you not have your characters in mind BEFORE writing the entirity of your story?

[red grove]

yes

[empty bloom]

Look, I think you might need to scrap and start from fundamentals.

Have you ever actually done much work into knowing how to properly write creatively?

[unique rune]

I think making things up as you go is how 50 Shades of Gray was written

[red grove]

yuh

[empty bloom]

It's how I used to write my own fics.

It's a terrible way to write, and the hallmark of an incompetent writer.

[red grove]

what form where they in

[empty bloom]

What form? Irrelevant.

[red grove]

oke

[empty bloom]

Writing things as I went along. Terrible way to write.

[red grove]

well i dont do that tho

i dont remember saying that

[empty bloom]

If a character not being allowed on reach like that is that bad, it sounds like it's how you're writing.

[red grove]

well i wanted to spice it up with a gamma spartan but i cant do that any more

[empty bloom]

Okay?

And?

What, that's not exactly crippling.

[red grove]

it is quite cripling

[unique rune]

This is only sounding more like you’re just making decisions on the fly with no real long term planning

[red grove]

well it is long term planing

if i wrote the character so badly then why am i trying to keep them

[empty bloom]

Then guess you better change your story.

[red grove]

hell nah

[empty bloom]

Okay. No more help for you then.

Have fun with your endeavor.

[red grove]

then il just imagine the character as another halucination of a character

thats what u call writing as u go

i dont think is a bad idea to bend the lore a bit bcs at the end of the day its fan fic i cant even publish it

[stoic hamlet]

Can confirm. Cut away two characters and an entire chapter from an in-progress novel. It’s hard, but you flat out can’t write without also editing out stuff.

In the publishing world, you’re cutting at least 20K words in editing, on average.

[red grove]

well i gota have 117s luck to be able to have a chance at publishing

[stoic hamlet]

So do I.

But you gotta k ow the rules of the game. Fanfiction, despite being very hit or miss, is a good way to get at least the basic processes down.

But then, you also have to learn from those processes, lol.

[red grove]

oky

[last anchor]

Well havent seen this in a while.

People dicsussing fanwork

[unique rune]

Those fans better work because it gets hot in here sometimes

[red grove]

lol

[red grove]

did spartan 3s have access to mk iv mjolnir on certain circumstances

[carmine sleet]

I wouldn't be surprised if Noble Team did before they got their Mark V[b]

[stoic hamlet]

Yes.

[carmine sleet]

Then there's Owen-B096 who wore Mjolnir, likely Mark IV, during the Battle of Meridian in 2548, which predates Mark V[b]'s introduction to service

[stoic hamlet]

Spartan III’s had been using MJOLNIR for a good decade plus at that point.

Assuming the image depicting Hazel-A302 and Jun-A266 as BINARY headhunters is canon, then they’d almost definitely be wearing Mark IV.

Also yes, Owen’s armour during Meridian.

[carmine sleet]

Refresh my memory on that art, I'm blanking on it

[stoic hamlet]

Was released as part of Winter Contention’s Intel.

Depicts them both in a Falcon.

[carmine sleet]

Roger that

And found it

Obviously it looks like Mark V since they painted over a screenshot of Reach but still neat to see Jun interacting with one of the Outpost Discovery Spartans

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, there are sets of Mark IV that look like Mark V because they use the same template.

The armour seen on the cover of The Cole Protocol, for example.

[carmine sleet]

True

[obsidian thistle]

Reminder that Mark IV/B exists

That looks identical to Mark V/B

Only thing suspect is the helmet.

The suit is safe

[tropic forge]

There was also the very recently introducted Mark IV/Z suits specifically for Headhunters.

[red grove]

huh

[red grove]

? how does it look

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halopedia.org/images/d/d5/H4FUD-BehindTheScenes-BermanAndGirouxInCostume.png?20211124150458

[obsidian thistle]

This means we seen Mark IV/B a lot

Suit wise

[red grove]

damn

what about the helmet

[red grove]

they have very long neck

[last anchor]

Kelly's actor is so smol

Honestly if they ever need someone to play Lucy for Ghosts of Onyx she'd work great

[red grove]

true

[red grove]

it might be that she looks smol but shes taller than the pic makes it seem

[versed helm]

How has chief not been infected by the flood

[unique rune]

being good at doing the shooting and also Cortana being there to save him on occasion

[daring niche]

Plot armor, sheilds, and cortana have come in clutch for the cheif

[warm ridge]

Tbh, based off new lore regarding the Flood, he should've technically been infected by the Flood in the Halo: The Flood book, but I believe that entire section has been fully retconned.

[bronze prawn]

the books always changed or have things different from the games

like Truth appearience in first strike

[patent roost]

What order do I go in, from the precursors to now? Any link would be helpful

Books videos games

Or any other piece

[somber fractal]

I know the games

From timeline order

[patent roost]

I was planning on going through all of it so I needed links to all of it

[somber fractal]

Okay I’ll see what I find in a week

[patent roost]

Thanks.

[somber fractal]

Wait I have a book about the lore in timeline order

I can tell which book but I’m on holiday so it may take me a while

[golden basin]

Are Banished Phantoms capable of FTL?

[runic wharf]

Are you looking to tackle it chronologically, in release order, by importance, to get a specific kind or species of content?

[bronze prawn]

did the forerruners had any type or planetary defenses

the ancient humans seemed to pretty much appear, encounter flood on the planet and decide to cleanse it

[obsidian thistle]

I actually dont recommended canon order! You start with a book series that is pretty hard to get into if you arnt familiar with existing Halo novels!

Most people "I" know that start with the Forerunner Saga get turned off due to how difficult to understand that series is as a newcomer

I recommend starting with The Original Series novels then going from there. OR Halo Mythos then seeing what ya like

[dense falcon]

Ngl if Venezian gear is well used, I can see them turning into a small colonizer faction of their own

[reef orbit]

Is halo renegades an indirect sequel to the present day story of halo primordium?

[lusty viper]

I am currently reading thr Kilo Five Saga. Really like it 👍
Couldn't find the second novel in my native language so I bought the English one. My collections is a mixture of German games/novels and English ones xD

[reef orbit]

Which halo books have you read. You are from what I can tell as far along in the halo books as I am so it's nice to see somebody who knows about as much as me in the halo universe. I'm currently on primordium and I'm going to start the kilo five trilogy after I read the forerunner saga

[lusty viper]

Well, most of the books before the kilo five saga. I'm still missing some because they weren't aviable in my country (and I didn't want to pay like 20€ shipping lol) but yeah, most of them.

I really liked contact harvest and battle of reach because I didn't know much about the start of the war before I read that. And for battle of reach: just added some more story around one of my all time favorite game

[daring cloud]

Can someone tell me the lore of the Flood?

[lusty viper]

When the Forerunners genozided the Precursors, they had the "option" to life in captivity (some of them) and some became "dust". Correct me if im wrong: but i remember that they could be reborn from the dusk. But over the millions of years this dusk became contagious and dangerous. also known as the flood

[daring cloud]

Thanks

[tough veldt]

The sangheilis betrayal the covenant during the War Sangheili- covenant, has been dead?

[tough veldt]

A question about broken circle

[patent roost]

Trying to start in chronological order. Starting from the precursors to where we are now in the lore

[empty bloom]

It's weird that Saturn Devouring His Son's article on Halopedia says that Fireteam Leviathan is a Flood Containment Unit when they are literally just a Spartan team that happened to be on the Saturn, and no mention is made whatsoever about what their role was or who they were.

[obsidian thistle]

Halopedia can be edited by all! If you think there is an issue, edit it!

[empty bloom]

I'm aware, I'm just not sure what the justification is and mobile editing suuuuuucks.

[obsidian thistle]

Ah wait

They are

Just not cited

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_Infinite_Story_%26_Intel#Season_4

Intel 5

🙂

Issue solved

Just need to cite it

[empty bloom]

Huh. Weird. The text of the actual book implies that Leviathan was just kinda what the Saturn had on hand.

Maybe it's the inciting incident for more rigidly standardized Spartan counterflood protocols and armors beyond just gallows.

[obsidian thistle]

Thats the running theory

Halo 4s Infection doesnt come outta nowhere thats for sure

[empty bloom]

Hmhmmn.

Wasn't the justification at the time for 4 entirely hypothetical?

Granted, Infinite's does touch on it in the same ways-the Spartan's meat being reformed into more armor instead of just flapping tentacles.

[stoic hamlet]

I think it’s still vague whether they are or aren’t a dedicated containment team.

[red grove]

does elite tech suit multiply the wearers strength

or speed

[unique rune]

Sangheili combat harnesses provide an unspecified increase to the wearer's strength and speed.

[red grove]

ok

how much beter is elite armour(shields not included) than mjolnir mk vb

[unique rune]

I mean

It varies by type and rank

Combat harness durability is also not specified outside of being able to "withstand less damage than a Spartan's armor"

[red grove]

so like whats the toughest

[red grove]

so baisicly i have a idea of a story where theres a spartan deep in covie teretory consealing him self as a by standar senior elite with a active camo cape and a sangheli full cover helmet he hunts hvt's, does not work on behalf of the unsc, locals cooperate with him out of fear of him

every one hates my ideas

[gusty star]

Sounds cringey might be why

Also doesn’t make sense, how does he disguise himself as an elite. It’s a different species

[carmine sleet]

Spartans and Elites have completely different body shapes, even if the Spartan used a cloak, they'd still look completely different to an Elite

While it's not impossible for a Spartan to hide behind enemy lines, disguising as an enemy is much harder when said enemy is completely different to you in every conceivable way from a biological standpoint

If it was a Spartan going undercover as a Banished recruited human, it can (And has) work

[red grove]

well he uses a cloak and hes large enough and a bit of armour attachments to imitate the hunchback appearance of a elite

[unique rune]

...Yeah, no, someone would find out almost immediately.

[red grove]

well the other question is what would hapen if he was to be found

either no witnesses

well if he came acros jackals it be easy to just bribe them into co operation

well grunts wouldint find out

hunters would snitch

elites would fight(end up as a deformed corpse in a alley)

[empty bloom]

That's... Very bad.

[red grove]

well were talking about a civil parts of the covenant territory not military

welll his first goal is to come to a conclusion where he can legaly co-habit

[unique rune]

I mean I think this premise is an absolute mess from the start

[carmine sleet]

A civilian Elite is gonna notice a Spartan trying to pretend to be an Elite easily

[unique rune]

Given that a Spartan during the Covenant War would not be permitted to "not work on behalf of the UNSC"

[red grove]

and im trying to fix the mess

[carmine sleet]

Easy, cut out the bit where they try and disguise as an Elite

[red grove]

and what he goin to do

[gusty star]

I’m sorry I’m just cringing really hard here

[red grove]

ye

[red grove]

yes

my friend said it make a good story

[gusty star]

Try your best to avoid characters that are the ultimate badass, you’ll end up with a hollow story and character

They need dimension

[stoic hamlet]

^^^

[red grove]

ye i see

its more of a guy that dosent understand meaning of his existence

[gusty star]

Okay, that’s a start

He’s got a flaw

[red grove]

just trying to fit in somewhere

[red grove]

hes a racst

or specist

he hates elites but not for reach just bcs they are diferent

[unique rune]

I think you'd be better off just. Not doing the Covenant thing at all.

Making your character's big flaw that they're racist/speciesist sounds like it'd be kind of a whole thing to handle in a way that doesn't come off as clumsy or half baked.

[red grove]

yuh

[carmine sleet]

They'd call for warriors to come kill the Spartan, or take them on if that isn't possible

[red grove]

what if both of those dont work

[carmine sleet]

Then the Spartan won the fight and there would no doubt be more Covenant coming to kill them as they're still deep behind enemy lines

[red grove]

does anything change depending the form of representation

[unique rune]

Spartans aren’t invincible. Especially ones far out of reach of any friendly support.

[red grove]

ye i know one cant take on a whole group of zealots fighting in sync

[unique rune]

It doesn’t even have to be Zealots all at once lmao

[red grove]

i know but thinking what can kill a spartan with ease are zealots but if u think outside the box it could be jackal snipers

or hunters in a tight room

or brute cheftan

but a spartan is able to chose his battles

[carmine sleet]

Grunts can kill Spartans

It ain't common but they can

Heck, a brick could theoretically kill one if a Spartan tripped on it

[red grove]

well yeh but it be goofy to see a spartan runing at moc 10 bcs he saw couple grunts

[carmine sleet]

We just haven't seen that happen

[unique rune]

The Sangheili’s whole thing as part of the Covenant was being the backbone of their military strength

Civilian Sangheili are generally still quite competent fighters and would be able to wear a Spartan down even if it doesn’t outright kill them

[red grove]

yes

[red grove]

ye the thing about wearing him down

well idk how much stamina does a spartan have to last multiple battles

idk if noble six gets weak at the end bcs of energy or the damage he sustained

well actualy theres a covenant species that are very similar to humans but that be far fetched

[red grove]

well guts was kinda like this but he kinda became a beter character over time

[terse sage]

Is halo Infinite currently the last part of the timeline so far?

[red grove]

no

[terse sage]

What is?

[red grove]

im jk

[red grove]

it is

actualy it might be some book idk about

the lore of halo infinite campaingn feels realy laking compared to what other halo has but as a game its a banger

[terse sage]

I liked the campaign so much more after reading Rubicon Protocol

[red grove]

damn probably feels like a 3rd eye

[terse sage]

It adds a lot of context to things

[red grove]

ye heard it was a prequel

[terse sage]

Like the dead spartans, outpost tremonious, the importance of killing Escharum, and the Harbinger

[red grove]

damn

[desert adder]

It's a different game type, I think it has a reason to lack in other games' strongsuits.

[terse sage]

Its set during the 6 month time jumo

[red grove]

someone need to make a visual representation of rubicon like animation or comic

and other halo books bcs im not into books

[desert adder]

Yeah, that'd be great

[red grove]

but i know i am mising out a lot

[terse sage]

I've read a good number of the books

[red grove]

if i read a book i proly not understand a 3rd of it

[terse sage]

Fall of Reach, First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, New Blood, Bad Blood, Rubicon Protocol...

[red grove]

heard harvest is good

[desert adder]

Definitely in some kind of animation software, like SFM. That might. be hard though, given the time needed to animate and shade each scene

In time, however, it's almost inevitable. People have been making crazy stuff!

While it may cut down on absorption of lore itself, modding Reach or something may work swell!

[red grove]

i proly rather manga bcs of how fast to produce

[desert adder]

That WOULD be an excellent way

[red grove]

books cover a lot so like a animation would be expensive long term

[red grove]

thats why im making a halo manga

[desert adder]

Sounds like I'll need a copy

[red grove]

its not cannon but it tries to wrap it self around it to be cannon

[red grove]

if ure intrested just dm me if u want acces to the server where i hold most info

[desert adder]

In a bit, I am currently waiting for a new computer, so I'm speaking thru VR

[red grove]

thats kind of hard to imagine

[desert adder]

Quest comes with a browser

[red grove]

thats good

[desert adder]

I should probably go now, move my muscles

[red grove]

ok

[golden basin]

I love how the Zanar-pattern light cruiser was the result of a production "oopsie"

[red grove]

its the one from h4

?

[golden basin]

UNSC Classification is the CRS-class light cruiser

But yeah it first came out in Halo 4

[red grove]

it seems it proly does les favorable bcs it came out in h4-5 era

[golden basin]

It surprisingly is well-liked because... smol.

[red grove]

damn how small

[golden basin]

300 meters in length

It is smol

[red grove]

damn

ur pfp is funy

[golden basin]

Party Parrot

[red grove]

lol

[golden basin]

Game production, devs accidentally made the CCS too small.

So they decided to just basically have it as a different class.

[carmine sleet]

Latest event we have in the timeline is that a Statue of Noble Team and Halsey's Journal were sent to Earth. This was in early 2610

[terse sage]

Forgot about that

[red grove]

2600

wth

[golden basin]

In universe, the Zanar-pattern was the result of their production forges accidentally making a small version of the Ket-pattern.

And then decided "Hey, these ships are cheap to make."

[red grove]

how do u accidentally make a smal ship

[golden basin]

I don't exactly know how Covenant shipbuilding is done but it is in the way of nanotechnology. So ships are kind of like "grown" in vats.

[red grove]

ohh no wonder why the insides look so complicated

[golden basin]

Yeah

So basically the Zanar is "birth defect"

[carmine sleet]

Latest confirmed date of any lore is 15/1/2610, Reach's Legendary Edition features a letter with that date

[red grove]

i thought they have milions of grunts hamering steel together like orks

[red grove]

well i gues theres spartan vi by then

or x

[golden basin]

Going by Halopedia here as well. Apparently, assembly forges are at times unstable and unpredictable because they go by imperfect replication of Forerunner asembler vat tech.

[red grove]

damn

[golden basin]

Their assembly forges are just knock offs of Forerunner assembly.

[red grove]

so do they make vehicles like this also

[golden basin]

Yes

[red grove]

well the energy sword is

and energy shields

[golden basin]

Ever since the destruction of High Charity, assembly forges are hotly contested between the different factions.

[red grove]

so ppl fight over them

[golden basin]

Yep

[red grove]

damn would make a sick anime

[golden basin]

The Banished arguably have better production capacity now because they don't mind salvaging human tech.

[red grove]

tre so boarding action is the best since they can just hijack the ship

[golden basin]

Turning an old glassed colony like Camber into a shipbreaking sight

[red grove]

but why didint they hijack the infinity

[red grove]

reach?

[golden basin]

Camber is a different colony

[red grove]

oh

[golden basin]

But as for Infinity, I think it's because of Cortana doing that last ditch effort.

[red grove]

oke

at the end of the day the covenant is still great

[golden basin]

I like the Zanar. It wasn't meant for frontline use, more like a police cutter.

But it's a very cheap to build.

[red grove]

yeh

is it smaler than the paris frigate

[golden basin]

Paris is close to 500m length

[red grove]

damn that is smol

idk why the unsc just completly not use covenant designed ships

plasma is clearly beter than lead

[golden basin]

That would mean having to build shipyards designed for them

And then studying the tech

[red grove]

still beter ships tho

[golden basin]

It takes time to retool shipyards for new designs. Take the Infinity-class for example. That requires an entirely new shipyard to be built.

[red grove]

damn

[golden basin]

You can't just go to a shipyard and say "Hey, we got a new design, go and build it."

[red grove]

well it depends what kind of design

[unique rune]

Changing to Covenant-like ships would require a massive overhaul of logistics and training

[red grove]

the banished only won bcs the unsc already had loses from the covenant war

[red grove]

but take it as they could of hired ppl who already could

[golden basin]

Actually, no. It was because of Cortana.

[unique rune]

…And how many people in the UNSC know how to build or operate Covenant spacecraft?

[empty bloom]

It isn't but it is depending on environment.

[golden basin]

The Guardians disabled most of the UNSC Navy

[red grove]

sangheli that arent covenant can

[empty bloom]

None of those are UEG citizens.

Or UNSC troops.

[unique rune]

You’d be looking at retraining all of your maintenance, construction, and operations crew on everything. Your logistics have to be completely overhauled thanks to new fuel and material needs.

[red grove]

and idk after halo 3 lore

that is like whole other franchise

[empty bloom]

I mean, even immediate post-3 plot a lot is obvious just by knowing about how industry works.

[unique rune]

Human shipbuilders and crew know how to make titanium-A armor plating and shoot magnetic accelerator cannons, not Covenant nanolaminate and energy projectors

[golden basin]

And covenant shipbuilding requires forges that are a heavy use of nanotech.

The heaviest of them were all solely built in High Charity

[empty bloom]

The UNSC had only just figured out shielding and pulse laser weaponry by the time of Halo 5 as well.

[golden basin]

Swords are only just still trying to get their heavy shipbuilding.

Jul Mdama's covenant, now under the command of his son, only had a single assault carrier.

[empty bloom]

The Banished might actually be one of two, maybe three, groups with actual ship building capability.

[red grove]

and why did elites return to the covenant

[golden basin]

Elites are divided into several factions

[empty bloom]

Look up the Protestant Reformation.

TL;DR Religious disagreements lead to sub-beliefs.

Sub-beliefs are frequently contradictary.

[golden basin]

The Sangheili were never a united people even before the Covenant

Post-covenant, they're basically back to their old ways

[empty bloom]

Just because the prophets betrayed them doesn't mean the religion was bunk.

At least, not in the eyes of the fervent believer.

You said the rings are a weapon? You lie.

That recording? Fake.

[golden basin]

Worshipping the Forerunners is still pretty widespread.

Just without the whole "great journey" stuff

[obsidian thistle]

I been pondering. Halo Infinite really has opened doors for Halo fiction.

Especially with the implications armor lore give!

We have potential Flood Infected Spartans in the wild.

We have Banished Spartans.

We have Spartan mercenaries.

And we have the similar Created Executor

Spartans are no longer just the heroes and the very rare antagonist. The door has been opened for re-occuring Spartan villains/antagonists.

(Wonder how Ilsa Zane feels about this)

[empty bloom]

Well... Two aren't really Spartans.

And are also kinda the same thing?

[ruby canopy]

Can Ilsa Zane still be enhanced by armor or is it kind of moot?

[obsidian thistle]

Well of course, I counted Banished and Mercenaries as separate as armor lore (Taskmaster) actually made them be Banished commanders.

So thus technically more Banished focused than... persay a regular mercenary.

[obsidian thistle]

Shields are shields

Armor is armor

Even if ya dont need it for the strength side of stuff

[ruby canopy]

I should have said minus the protection. Like would she still get enhanced speed and strength

[obsidian thistle]

Maybe there would be a lil enhancement

[ruby canopy]

Interesting

[obsidian thistle]

Still

The universe is a more dangerous place

With Spartans and Spartan-likes becoming more common

I guess Halsey was right all along

"Your mistake is seeing Spartans as military hardware. My Spartans are humanity's next step..."

"Our destiny as a species. Do not underestimate them."

[empty bloom]

Doubt she meant it so... Uncontrolled. Poor Halsey's Genie.

[empty bloom]

Though, IMO, this is kinda like calling a member of the PLA SOF a member of Delta Force. Not to be pedantic.

[dire yew]

I love this channel thanks guys for your awareness

[bronze prawn]

about the banished in HW2

what exactly stopped the enduring conviction to IDK blast the hell out of the SOF with their beams

[ruby canopy]

Are the banished creating Spartans or are they Spartans that defected?

If they defected, having gone through humanity’s selection, training, and augmentation I would say calling them a Banished Spartan doesn’t seem all that odd

[unique rune]

The Banished appear to be making supersoldiers of their own.

The CONQUEROR is a Venezian fusion of Covenant and UNSC technologies made possible by massive infusions of Banished resources and stolen information. Their operators are home-grown mercenary super-soldiers eager for plunder and power.

Armor would appear to be MJOLNIR-compatible to some extent.

[red grove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/619310353628528651/1225229597054996490/bquhQB9CmroAAAAASUVORK5CYII.png?ex=66205efb&is=660de9fb&hm=6b2ffeb7884975a4b3cb42c239bb12c425d9e1d7be775ac911d63144988d8bf3&

is the ar drawn at a lore acurate size

[unique rune]

You do know that you can look these kinds of things up and check for yourself on Halopedia, right...?

[empty bloom]

Basically what Emperor said. Venezians typically aren't UEG Citizens or UNSC soldiers, ditto with mercenaries.

To be a Spartan-you need to be a UNSC-made Supersoldier, selected by the Spartan Corps, operated on by UEG Scientists, and trained under UNSC Spartan Corps trainers; This is what makes you a Spartan. Otherwise you're an imitation.

You can call yourself a Spartan, but it's just borrowing the name-even with the same augmentations, you're just a stolen idea.

[bronze prawn]

"master chief, youre sorrounded"

"All I'm surrounded by is fear and dead men."

[empty bloom]

Uh?

[bronze prawn]

sorry, phrase of vader

[empty bloom]

I know what you're referencing, but why?

Weird.

[red grove]

just wanted to se howd ppl respond

[red grove]

that be a 40k custodes and noble six

i dont think 117 is a edge lord

[empty bloom]

... Neither is Six, or a Custode.

[bronze prawn]

is six overrated ?

[empty bloom]

Heavily.

[hot zodiac]

How do you rate yourself? There's your answer

[empty bloom]

The circular AI lady in my head tells me I can compete with Chief and wants to have a pizza party

So

[ruby canopy]

Oh that’s some pretty cool development. I didn’t even read the conqueror descriptions yet

[empty bloom]

I just thought of how horribly the augmentation part could be corrupted. Organ harvesting dead IVs.

[ruby canopy]

That makes sense. I should have been more specific, saying unsc instead of just humanity. Interesting development though. I wonder what they’ll call them

[empty bloom]

There's a few options I think would work, but I'm just Trenchbird

[unique rune]

I wonder if the Goblin kit for Eaglestrike is supposed to be considered canon.

[empty bloom]

I do find it weird that they say it's for "Human Mercenaries", because... That kinda implies that Mercenaries won't or can't fight grunts. Y'know. The people who kill for uh. Money.

[bronze prawn]

https://preview.redd.it/5o0azmp1zmz41.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4ec6788c87eddde8914f9b3d4d817f802534bc72 grunts arent as weak as spartans see them

[obsidian thistle]

I don't think its to fight Grunts

[empty bloom]

No, I'm saying I find the implication that the armor is a friendly face for grunts funny, because it's allegedly worn by mercenaries, which kill for money.

[unique rune]

Yeah, the bit about it being a "friendly face" for Unggoy is a bit funky.

[obsidian thistle]

I believe the idea is more its armor/parts made using Created stuff from Balaho

[empty bloom]

It is, but I'm not talking about that part

[obsidian thistle]

And thus it looks like Unggoy stuff

Thus is a friendly face

Whether it is or not

Boggart for example is straight up a Halo 5 Grunt Goblin

https://twitter.com/cia391/status/1775642136345497612?t=lHM87-Sz91JDQypYeyKePw&s=19

Chris Aiken (@cia391) on X

@NakaiCanon (Its also looks like a Phap-pattern Goblin. Which makes sense)

Twitter · Apr 3, 2024, 9:50 PM

Quick comparison that I already did

[unique rune]

And then the other thing that stuck out to me was that the UA/Double Guard chest attachment is based on the Unggoy Mule body armor, but is license-built by Misriah...?

Or I suppose the idea is that the Banished copied it from a Misriah design?

[obsidian thistle]

Heres a thing

The design isnt 1 to 1

[dire yew]

I have a name for them "Immortal"

Lol that can be a cool name for banished spartan

[bronze prawn]

for a ripoff of the actual spartans seems a bit too much

[lone saffron]

what happened to mendicant bias after crashing on earth

[bronze prawn]

05-032 traveled with the dreadnough to the ark

[lone saffron]

what is mendicant bias doing at the ark

[bronze prawn]

kinda died by the damages that the ark received for the fire of installation 08

in epitah happened something but i dont remember

[lone saffron]

ok thx

[dreamy lotus]

Petition to make Emile, noble six , and Jorge as well as Kat to come to Fortnite
👇

[golden basin]

The lore for the Skullbearer Trophy is highly amusing because it is also part of the Banished Trophy lore.

Shrwassha'wash: a tradition of displaying the skulls of particularly recalcistrant foes after their defeat and ritual dismemberment.

What are the Swords teaching the Spartans embedded with them lol?

[lone saffron]

who was spartan 001

[unique rune]

We don't have any name for candidate 001 of any Spartan generation

[empty bloom]

I wonder what 001 Shamed Instrument is up to these days

[unique rune]

Banned from entering music stores probably

[hot zodiac]

007 Broken iPod?

[empty bloom]

Nope, that's Contrite Witness

:3

[hot zodiac]

Alter ego

original human personality

[empty bloom]

I think I'm going to write my main guy as finding Forerunner tech's names annoyingly banal

[hot zodiac]

123 Sad Robot

[unique rune]

069 Broken Dongle

[pallid knoll]

213 Improper Sequence

[desert adder]

420 Pungant Cannabis

[lusty viper]

I heard there is a real book trilogy about John Forge's daughter. Amybody know the name? I've heard some things about her, that she was searching for the spirit of fire to find her father and found the Forerunner Ai little bit (at least what's left of it) and so on.

[carmine sleet]

You're looking for the novels Smoke and Shadow, Renegades and Point of Light

[royal relic]

Their ancestor’s roots /s

[lusty viper]

thanks man 👍

So if I remember correctly: Cortana got infected by the gravemind in Halo2/3. It gave her access to the Domain and with the access to basically all knwoledge she got compeltely nuts. Right? So it wasnt actually the rampancy that made her do what she did

[carmine sleet]

She wasn't given access to the Domain by the Gravemind. It was after the destruction of the Mantle's Approach that she was able to access it

[lusty viper]

Oh okay thanks. my bad

[fair hazel]

Does anyone get kind of AHHHHH when on reddit someone asks a lore question or something then someone replies with a wrong or partially wrong answer and it gets a lot of upvotes and it's like, what no that's not right stop upvoting a wrong answer

[stoic hamlet]

All the time.

Most of my comments on Halostory lately have been correcting other people.

[fair hazel]

Also @obsidian thistle your wording probably wasn't the best on your hit tweet. Seeing as executors are not spartans and augmented human mercenaries, venezian or otherwise don't mean spartans. Now people on reddit think there are sub factions of spartans in that way ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I can't remember which thing mentioned some while ago that augmentations were able to be given to non spartans if they have the money and so on. Was it the spartan field manual?

[obsidian thistle]

It was admittedly a "I think this is cool tweet." It actually wasnt meant to hit it big.

[fair hazel]

Yeah I know, but then it blew up

if only I had such luck

[empty bloom]

Well, Spartan Field Manual did mention ONI agents getting augs. Not so sure about private mods.

[fair hazel]

There is a source that talks about anyone with the proper resources and means, though expensive, can now different types of augmentations by now. Something along those lines. I know the information but I can't remember the source

[obsidian thistle]

A note to consider is after the Created Uprising. Not every Spartan-IV would be under the oversight of the UNSC, UEG, or the corporations they work for.

[fair hazel]

Was it a canon fodder maybe? I think something by grim brother one and not alex if it was

[obsidian thistle]

I'll look into it

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-armory-amore

Surreptitious recovery of Spartan tissue and organs, industrial espionage, independent research, and the release of some augmentation protocols for medical usage has substantially eroded the UNSC’s monopoly on super-soldiers. Though the knowledge and tools are now available for any sufficiently motivated (and wealthy) private party to replicate a Spartan-equivalent enhancement package, few see the need to match the recruiting standards and scope of enhancement afforded to UNSC Spartans – and are willing to settle for cheaper and more invasive augmentations with unknown medical drawbacks and psychological costs. Many of the gene therapies, artificial organ implants, and cybernetic enhancements used in the SPARTAN-IV program are also irreversible, with few within the military or government forecasting the impact these men and women will have when they leave military service and re-enter civilian life. It remains even more of an open question what will happen with potentially unstable, partially-augmented personnel that lack the training and support available to former Spartans.

@fair hazel

[fair hazel]

You found it!

How come this canon fodder is still up but some aren't? 8 years

But yes! The basis has been there for all these years and it's being expanded and built over a bit more now

[stoic hamlet]

Also H5 has a few armours that mention it.

[fair hazel]

Yep and there's an expansion to it now

[obsidian thistle]

Halopedia has em all anyway from that era

https://archives.halopedia.org/waypoint/www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/newsa7ec.html?categoryName=Canon Fodder

🙂

[empty bloom]

I think what I really hate about this is the fact it really only ever gives ammunition to the 'IVs are shoddy products and only shoddy products' crowd.

Any amount of nuance to the decision is nonexistent because it's told and never shown, or rationale'd beyond 'adoy they're separated from the UNSC'

Not sure why I want blood from a stone in this regard, because while I'm not averse to nonSpartan nonUEG supersoldiers, I am strongly against them being prior Spartan devotees to their new faction. I think it heavily erodes IV characterization to do so, where traitors were incredibly uncommon-1/1000+ at absolute worst.

[royal tartan]

Whats the glowing lights on covie tech, armor, and vehicles mean

[empty bloom]

They glow.

Sometimes it's shields, sometimes it shows it's powered

[royal tartan]

Works

Wait

[royal tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/parasyte-lock-in-locked-in-serious-meme-gif-13189278796605253304

Trenchbird

[empty bloom]

?

What?

[royal tartan]

Hows it going

[empty bloom]

I exist in a plane of suffering, as usual.

[royal tartan]

Ah

[royal tartan]

What do you believe is the cause for covenant bureaucratic, nonsense and a lack in organic transfers of power/organizational command structures through organized meritocratic checks and balances?

Me personally? I believe that its the power base now allowing fluid checks and balances to take place, due to widespread moral and economic corruption throughout the empire

[empty bloom]

Religion, corruption, religious corruption.

[royal tartan]

Besides religion

I’d say the fact the san’shyuum is the powerhouse of the covenant political cell is the biggest issue

They are naturally treacherous

[royal tartan]

The CAS itself is the covenants star destroyer, they ultimately exude intimidating power, but are a pain to maintain. They are a status of power and fear to keep others in line

The covenant fleet is grossly oversized for glorified religious pilgrims and zealots

And treasure hunters

Who at most would deal with small rebellions and pirate fleets

[royal tartan]

What say you

[empty bloom]

I... I don't care.

[royal tartan]

🫵

[golden basin]

Bit of a weird question. Are Sangheili oviparous or viviparous?

[stoic hamlet]

The former.

[golden basin]

Ah... that does make sense.

[empty bloom]

I mean, bipedal physiology kinda sucks at the latter.

[versed helm]

what does that mean

[golden basin]

Oviparous is egg laying. The latter is more... mamalian.

[versed helm]

alright

[ruby canopy]

Tell that to kangaroos

[empty bloom]

Well, Kangaroos kinda cheat at it a lot more than humans do. Our leg and torso structure is specifically the biggest issue.

[ruby canopy]

They’ve been bipedal a lot longer

Well, ground walking bipedalism I should say

[dire yew]

Who control the covie after jul'mdama ?

[empty bloom]

The Jul Mdama Covenant was led by his son after his death.

[dire yew]

Okie thx

So keepers are covie or something else ?

[empty bloom]

The Keepers were adherents to the Covenant religion and formerly Covenant.

[dire yew]

Okie

Because i see humain in keepers

So weird because covenant hate humain no ?

[empty bloom]

The destruction of humanity wasn't necessarily directly tied to the Covenant religion as a religion.

[proud heath]

Does anyone here know about the m99 stanchion? Cuz I gotta few questions on it.

[empty bloom]

Religion is... Kinda weird.

[empty bloom]

Such as?

[dire yew]

I see that lol

[proud heath]

How come the projectiles can break through reenforced concrete and continue to stay in perfect trajectory?

[unique rune]

It's a future space anti-materiel coilgun, don't think about it too hard.

[proud heath]

But halo tries to be realistic in those ways

So it wouldn’t really make sense, unless that’s the reason it was never seen again after halo wars 2

[stoic hamlet]

It tries to be superficially grounded, not realistic.

[proud heath]

Close enough

[stoic hamlet]

It appeared in Silent Storm, actually. And Hippocratia

And first appeared in Contact Harvest.

[empty bloom]

It's actually a pretty big difference.

[proud heath]

How so?

[unique rune]

The one description we have of its firing behavior is that its projectile velocity reaches almost 20x the muzzle velocity of a Barrett M82 at some point in its trajectory. Do what you want with that information.

[empty bloom]

Realistic is, well, realistic. Superficially Grounded means it tries to appear realistic, but when realism is inconvenient-whether to make something cool or make something work-it is eschewed.

There's a thin but deep gap between the two.

[proud heath]

But why wasn’t it ever in any 1st person halo games?

[empty bloom]

Bungie didn't want to, neither did 343i.

[unique rune]

Because there wasn't any reason to add it?