lore-and-universe

[stoic hamlet]

Well, we know Spartans often did during the war.

But ODST’s likely couldn’t make much use of them.

[latent olive]

Where can I read a complete, in depth, lore accurate account of Halo CE?

[bronze prawn]

to fully understand events of CE you gotta understand some of reach

and thebefore some lore of the forerruner flood war, captain keyes blah blah blah

[reef orbit]

Lol.

I think the sources that mostly answer all the things you just said would be halo: cole protocol for Keyes, the fall of reach and halo reach for the before stuff, and the forerunner saga for the flood.

[bronze prawn]

LOL

[reef orbit]

Happy reading

The benefit is that you get a free pizza coupon for little Caesar's from your local library. Lol

[ruby canopy]

Halo the flood is a good book to get a behind the scenes look on CE. Pretty much what was going on outside of the game’s narrative

[latent olive]

No direct links?

[ruby canopy]

Halo the flood and CE?

[latent olive]

Just the complete story of CE.

[ruby canopy]

Halo the flood is the complete story of CE. But I figured a good selling point was that it doesn’t just tell what happened in the game

Though it does go back over everything the chief went through. Even gives his thoughts on the events that were transpiring

[latent olive]

Okay!:)

[molten escarp]

are the books considered lore accurate? cause I've seen a lot of things that seem to contradict what I've seen in the games (I've only read like half of the first book)

[rough thunder]

Yes, are you referring to fall of Reach?

[empty bloom]

Fall of Reach came out around a decade before Halo Reach. The books are all lore accurate.

[molten escarp]

yeh

[empty bloom]

Reach was the center of a lot of controversy because it didn't play nice with the book.

[molten escarp]

I feel like I remember sam being in halo 5, but he dies in the fall of reach

maybe I just made that up tho

[empty bloom]

You did. Sam's not in 5.

[bronze prawn]

the amount of crazy timelines i heard to connect the book to the game

[molten escarp]

crap 💀

[bronze prawn]

from everyone in one side of the planet being completely unaware of the covenant invasion of the other half

[rough thunder]

Yes they are canon. However there are inconsistencies because the book was written way before reach was a game and bungie didn't like the story so they retconnd a bunch in the game

[molten escarp]

is that why the fall of reach was has 3 different versions?

[rough thunder]

U mean like the different editions, no because the story of the book is the same

They dont have a lore friendly version if thats what ur asking

[sonic talon]

Can all grunts reproduce? I mean like— if 1000s can be born from a single grunt I feel like they would be more like ants, where only the queen can reproduce and the rest are workers/fighters

[unique rune]

They are naturally all capable of reproducing.

Though individuals certainly don't have thousands of offspring.

A typical clutch of eggs only falls in the range of 5-12.
A pair of them would probably hit an upper limit of maybe 200-some offspring in a lifetime if they were especially prodigious.

[carmine sleet]

You don't need to read the Forerunner Saga to understand Combat Evolved. If anything, telling someone they need to read three books to understand the first game in the series is pretty misleading

[obsidian thistle]

Yea you dont need to read any books. But The Fall of Reach doesnt hurt and neither The Flood as a companion piece

[autumn plaza]

The Fall of Reach had to be rewritten because Eric Nylund probably wasn't aware we would kill hundreds of Elites in Halo CE. He treated them as 1 to 1 equals to Spartans and brand new to the war despite there being billions of them. The book would have us believe the UNSC was losing the war to thousands of Grunts with Jackal overseers for almost 30 years. The best part is having plasma pistols, some needlers and 4 shade turrets was "unusually well armed" according to the prologue. So the average Grunt had to be unarmed. The book had to be rewritten because it just sounds goofy.

[meager pier]

This interesting take… https://x.com/igp/status/1769050063961981186?s=46&t=7Cro0-1vUKeMwTBmMHkJsg

[carmine sleet]

It's not perfect, but part of what made CE work was the simplicity in how it told the story, Halo 2 is the game in the original trilogy that told a more complex story with how we have Arbiter and the fall of the Covenant Empire

Halo 3 did strip away allot of the nuance and complexity though, to the point of making some characters much more one note

[unique rune]

I don't think the tweet is really wrong, Halo's writing tends to mostly be... fine on average. Like CE's solid but nothing revolutionary, given that it's basically a bunch of well-established tropes taped together and repackaged as a good enough justification to kill aleins. The Arbiter half of 2 has a pretty well done character arc and setting exploration, while the Chief half is a mediocre action movie entirely consisting of our "protagonist" reacting to things happening.

And then 3 is another mediocre action flick that distracts you from its problems by blowing up setpieces every other level with terrible dialogue and character actions strewn about.

Like I do think it would be wrong to say that Halo's writing has never been good and Is Bad, Actually, but I think people are too quick to defend it and try to claim it's "peak science fiction" or whatever. Sometimes it's okay to be mid.

[obsidian thistle]

This is bait

Like

Its written in a way that is hard not to see it that way

[empty bloom]

I don't necessarily disagree. People put some Halo's writing on a pedestal that it didn't really deserve to be on.

I wouldn't say it was so much 'always mid' so much as it was 'always overrated'.

[obsidian thistle]

Its essentially the "Sonic was never good" thing that people said.

[empty bloom]

overrated=/=bad.

[obsidian thistle]

Oh I aint saying that its wrong or right. But it clearly was said to bait a response

[empty bloom]

As much as I think Reach is an overwhelmingly mediocre narrative, it has enough positive qualities in storytelling and environment and atmosphere that I'd still begrudgingly say it has a good story. For example.

[autumn plaza]

There is a big difference between a mess that can't agree what it is and a shallow story with likable characters and enough plot to keep you engaged.

[stoic hamlet]

Halo always had its best plots in the books, to be fair.

The games don’t really need a great story - they’re more about the set pieces.

[empty bloom]

I'll admit, the fact 5's set pieces never actually get acknowledged pisses me off.

I remember being pretty damn awestruck when I saw the damn Guardian rising out of the ground.

[obsidian thistle]

Halo 5 had a lotta the more interesting stuff in trailers

[empty bloom]

I mean on Meridian.

[obsidian thistle]

Like... I have to explain each time that Blue Team just... ran to Meridian Station from the mines

While a Guardian was waking around them

[unique rune]

The Kraken was a little meh but running down the spine of a Guardian more than makes up for it

[obsidian thistle]

Like I kinda wish that we played as Blue team during this

[empty bloom]

Yeh

[obsidian thistle]

But I guess having 3 Guardian waking missions would get a lil repetitive

[empty bloom]

The Kraken is pretty meh in the sense that as a 'boss fight' it's basically just "Halo 3's last two Scarabs".

[obsidian thistle]

It was a less interactive Scarab

[empty bloom]

But during the actual level, it does maintain a pretty active presence.

[obsidian thistle]

The Scarab could still fight if all its minions are killed

The Kraken becomes a... platform that cant kill you

[empty bloom]

Which is kind of the difference maker to me, IMO. You constantly hear about it walking around, you see it smash through the environment.

And up until 4 prototyped that a little bit with the Didact's disintegrating and level sculpting, that really wasn't a thing in Halo.

[unique rune]

It’s much more evocative of the Halo 2 Scarab than Halo 3 now that I think about it

[empty bloom]

yeah, actually.

Good point.

[obsidian thistle]

Fun fact: The "waiting" dialogue for the Sangheilios Kraken actually adds a narrative to the Banshee Kraken fight that we don't see

Its one of the weirdly compelling side stories in the game

And most people miss it cause you aren't encouraged to wait

You run.

And that jumps the scripted narrative dialogue forward

[empty bloom]

Honestly one of the most sore spots of 5 is how much good dialogue gets screwed over because the game is trying to add urgency.

That and being unable to freely choose characters in single player.

(Then again I'd just always end up only playing Tanaka and Fred)

[obsidian thistle]

Yea. Lets place interesting and important dialogue that adds context. BUT place it in areas that you are encouraged to run

Meaning the dialogue is skipped or a TLDR version is done if its "that" important to knowing what the player should do

[empty bloom]

I like the random Portuguese guy at Meridian Station

[unique rune]

Really wish the guns-down missions had been executed better
Because I think they’re pretty neat in concept

[empty bloom]

I get more irritated that people don't realize their point more than I am about their execution.

[meager pier]

It won’t happen, but man, I’d love to see Joe Staten write another game
Dude is responsible for the best written games in the Bungie era

[obsidian thistle]

Would have been better if the "optional" conversations affected the following missions.

Like maybe Tanaka talking to the Sangheili about the Banshees made the Kraken fight easier and a side character doesnt die that way.

[empty bloom]

The one where she talks them through fixing it?

Yee.

That'd be neat.

[obsidian thistle]

Yup

Like one of the side stories in the following mission has a Banshee pilot take a risk and it doesn't go well for them

[empty bloom]

Yep, he gets crushed(?) by the Kraken IIRC.

[obsidian thistle]

You can miss that entire side story fyi for those who care

Running though that mission skips most of it

[empty bloom]

I like the intel in the Sanghelios missions

Like the absolute madlad who brought a classic metal Sangheili curveblade to Sunaion to try killing people with it

[obsidian thistle]

Blades get dull, they don't however run out of energy

I see the logic

[empty bloom]

I mean, you'd still kinda lose a sword duel against a guy with a blade that just ignores shields and plating.

[meager pier]

I know they’re vastly different mediums, but with how good they’ve been cooking, I wouldn’t be opposed to Kelly Gay and/or Troy Denning writing the next game

[stoic hamlet]

It’s interesting, because it shows Halo really struggles with stuff like that.

It’s not a game where you’re meant to take your time.

So unless the levels are made to make you listen to long stretches of dialogue, or they pull a H3 and slow you down, you don’t hear them.

Compared to other games, like God of War or The Last of Us (there are other options, I just can’t think of them atm) where there are long stretches for the idea is you get dialogue and conversations, but it feels natural because you’re actually moving very slow most of the game, it works a lot better.

[empty bloom]

But that's not important, what's important is that the dude said 'screw it' and tried to stabby stab.

[empty bloom]

This... Reminds me of how funny it is that Halo 4/5/Infinite and God of War both tried to do somewhat similar things to their protags (Adjusting to a changed world and changed world role), but one clearly did it so much more effectively than the other due to the medium and characters involved.

I know, I know, it's not a contest, but still.

[stoic hamlet]

Just because you’re a writer of a novel doesn’t mean you can write a game.

Dan Abnett wrote the dialogue for Darktide… but the game is still a jumbled, wild mess with little in the way of personality that makes his characters stand out, despite the fact that “Inquisition retinue with soldiers that hate their jobs and lives” is literally his bread and butter, with the Gaunt’s Ghost series, and etc.

[empty bloom]

I actually like Darktide's dialogue a lot.

I mean, granted, I vastly prefer the gameplay to the dialogue, but I like Darktide's method of dialogue-secondhand and impersonal.

[meager pier]

Yeah it’s tough
It reminds me of how JK Rowling is a greater author, but isn’t that great of a screenwriter, as seen with the Fantastic Beasts movies

[empty bloom]

JK Rowling is... not that good of an author.

Not really bad, mind, but her books aren't really anything special in terms of merit.

[stoic hamlet]

The dialogue is good.

But when you read the articles how he designed the Moebian 6th and wrote their character and identity… then you realize it means basically nothing because the game can’t actually explore those aspects of their characters.

Just because you have a good author on-staff doesn’t mean they’d be good at making a game better.

Halo’s dialogue isn’t really the issue, it’s that the game itself just doesn’t give it a chance to breath, the formula just doesn’t allow for it.

[empty bloom]

And people wonder why I'm so adamant that Halo's formula needs more fundamental changes.

[stoic hamlet]

This is because GoW actually changed the formula, like, entirely. It’s a God of War game in terms of character but not gameplay.

It’s akin to if in the next Halo it took the Gears of War route (actually that’s another good example, should have used that one)

[empty bloom]

I think it should have, and I honestly think Infinite's campaign tried.

And if concept art and such is to be believed, 5 was going to try for it too.

[stoic hamlet]

I think Infinite was the best shot we had to get a sort of attempt, but it just didn’t have enough meat and care put into it.

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t want to do this, because it feels like I’m jumping in the bandwagon, but Halo I finite (Halo in general) really needs to pick a lane and stick to it.

If you want to do a “Spartan story” with a player character, then you need to commit to that, fully, utterly, nothing else can be done because it’ll take away from that with resources and etc.

Like, technically Halo tried what Infinite said it would do a decade ago, with Spartan Ops… but never actually committed to it and floundered at every step.

Then Helldivers 2 comes out and nails it in one go because that’s all it’s trying to do. It’s a better Spartan Ops than Spartan Ops. A better Halo Infinite than Halo Infinite, because it’s not spreading items resources to a campaign, or a competitive scene, or a map editor, or custom games, etc.

Like, just this past week, there was a special event in game where you had entirely new maps with new objectives just for that event, and when it finished the maps and objectives went away, and there are repercussions from that event. There’s dialogue from every character in game, there’s text pop-ups, there’s in-universe news broadcasts, it feels like it actually mattered. It’s all one space connected together, not a disjointed area of menus.

Halo could have - can - do this, it just needs to fully commit to it, no other stuff to muddy the waters.

[meager pier]

343 has this issue of wanting to try to appeal as many types of fans as possible, and in so doing, many fans of the various categories are underwhelmed
Like you said, I hope they find a direction they are confident in, and can nail with a clear vision
Gonna be interesting to see where they could take things with Halo 7

[empty bloom]

Don't blame you there, I feel the same way when these conversations pop up.

[tough edge]

And I think part of that is Microsoft's attempt to squeeze as much juice with as little fruit as possible. I can't even blame 343 anymore, because we've seen already 20+ games get shot down over the years.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, Arrowhead’s motto is - literally- “A Game For Everyone Is a Game For No One.”

It doesn’t get more clear than that.

[empty bloom]

Angry Starfighter moment

[tough edge]

It comes down to what some corporate suit thinks will sell, and what we get is an empty shell of what could've been the greatest Halo title

But, alas...

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, it’s not all 343’s fault. It’s also a Microsoft thing, but it really is a thing where these franchises are becoming too big for their own good.

If you’re putting all of your effort into Esports, campaign, forge, and classic game mods, you’re not getting 100%, you’re getting 25% effort in each of these categories.

[empty bloom]

... Honestly, I don't even think this is just a Microsoft or 343i thing, at least, in terms of poor reception.

It wouldn't just get shot down by the suits-the Halo fanbase tends to be recalcitrant enough to changes in medium and direction that things like launching without forge effectively disembowel games at the starting line.

[tough edge]

Yeah. We call it "scope creep" in my line of work, and it's something Infinite suffered from. Too many ideas, too little resources. Ultimately we get this giant ball of thread of inconsistent thoughts/execution

[empty bloom]

Not that I think Forge on launch would've actually saved Infinite's launch.

[stoic hamlet]

Like, I’d hate it, to be clear, but if Halo wants to do all these Esports things, you know, really let these teams show off and make these events the best they can be… then they gotta just go full bore with that, entirely, nothing else in the way.

Etc.

[empty bloom]

Scope Creep is basically a problem in any industry designed around making things, so.

[stoic hamlet]

It affects even the written novel.

[tough edge]

Yeah I just meant part of my job is a project manager. So, more so than say an analyst.

[empty bloom]

Gotcha.

It's a very frustrating position to be in from the ground level when your tastes are more specific than just 'gimme a """content complete"""" Halo game'. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for 343i's folks who got idea after idea gutted.

Like, I want Halo to prosper and do well, but from the perspective of someone on the outside looking in, who has enough observational knowledge to know rehashing and suckling up to the "old ways" is effectively a death knell, good god is this frustrating to see.

[tough edge]

That's why I don't blame them as much. I'm sure there were a handful of good ideas in that list, maybe they didn't sell it well enough or maybe Microsoft just didn't see it worth the resources.

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, it’s scope creep, it’s a muddying of resources, it’s a waste of resources, etc.

Don’t try and please everyone, you won’t.

Again with the Helldivers comparisons (I’m sorry, lol) but it’s clear their vision matters more than the actual consumer.

And that sounds malicious, but what that actually means is that they’re targeting a very small subset of consumers, not the vast majority. They’re not going for the battle Royale or PvP crowd, they’re not trying to throw crossovers and etc at you to get you to play, they’re sticking to their established vision, and going fully into that tunnel with no brakes.

Like, they wrote/composed a fictional anthem for their fictional space empire, lol. And it’s actually good.

[empty bloom]

Smaller, more condensed teams doing it for the craft instead of pleasing shareholders or raucous fanbases tend to deliver more genuine and effective content. Not to say 343i doesn't do it for the craft, but they're pretty obviously hamstrung because they can't to the degree that it comes across as genuine, not anymore.

[tough edge]

The thing I like about HD2 is that when you're in-game, you're really present in what's going on: You have media, you've got random dialogue, visible interactions of other players...

In Infinite I feel like most of the time I spend in the menus rather than in-universe, and that's not a bash specific to Infinite because all Halo games felt that way when not playing

[empty bloom]

You have a cutscene into your ship, the ship is a hub, you're given people chatting in your ear about "Democracy" or whatever, Locke telling you tales of democracy, and you have agency in your ship's effectiveness.

You see yourself get in the pod, you land, you benefit from your upgrades, your characters talk, your vessel assists you directly and chats in your ear.

[stoic hamlet]

That’s what I mean, yeah.

Like, technically, it’s doing the same as Infinite is, really.

But it’s done on a ship, it’s a sort of “hub space”.

When you want to select a mission, you don’t go through a menu, you go to a galaxy map, and you see your planet move to the area of the planet in real time (even on the map itself).

Technically it’s the same process as how every game does it, but it’s hidden in the clouds, shall we say. It feels much more present.

[empty bloom]

It's funny when I see people praise Helldiver's menu, say Halo should try for that, then go back to praising Halo 2's menus or whatever.

Like, dude, pick a damn lane.

Because those two design philosophies could not be any further from one another.

[tough edge]

That's why I liked Destiny as a model so much, because as soon as you booted up the game, you were immersed. I don't feel that way with Halo (or most modern titles for that matter)

[empty bloom]

What's double funny to me is that Mechassault also did the whole 'running around your ship, doing stuff' thing.

Full lobbies had like 8 dudes running around emoting at eachother.

[tough edge]

Right, then you transport to the planet, see an animation, hear chatter. You're not just browsing the menu, waiting 5-10 seconds for a match, then tossed to a splash screen, etc.

[stoic hamlet]

That’s what I mean, right.

Like, there’s nothing wrong with the way the menus are in infinite technically.

Like that system isn’t inherently bad. Reach did them exceptionally well.

But if you’re gonna do that, then that’s what you do. You don’t try and slot an immersive story aspect into that.

[tough edge]

Not to mention, nobody chats in Infinite. Maybe text, if you're lucky. But in HD2, you have a cool call-out system, everyone's on open-mic

It just feels so disconnected in Infinite and other modern games

[empty bloom]

I mean, that's not exactly encouraged by Halo's gameplay style and, let's be honest here, player demeanor.

Helldivers encourages struggling together. Halo's too competitive for that sort of behavior to be kind.

What few times I've used voice chat in Halo, historically, have resulted in either someone calming down, ignoring me and continuing to hot mic, or sending me a barrage of verbal hate mail.

And unlike higher stake 'realism' shooters, which treats death more like a drop in the bucket but has the size and demeanor to maintain a nicer community, Halo fans feel no real urge to follow polite etiquette or rally around victory over performance.

[stoic hamlet]

And you can see other ships around you dropping Helldivers, firing weapons or hellpods, and you can see ships in the background doing the same in missions.

Like, I did a level 7 “rescue civilians” mission a few days ago, and the mission description is “rescue civilians trapped behind enemy lines”.

In Infinte (or other games) that would just be random text and mean nothing.

In Helldivers, I saw the back…North of the map was just…explosions. Distant artillery explosions, strafing fighters, AA fire, etc. it’s all background, all randomly generated, but it gave the impression that if I could crest that hill, I’d be in the misfit of a massive battle.

It all just sort of… meshes together in a way Halo’s never managed. Even the games that have set piece battles always felt so disconnected and just set dressing.

And that’s what it is in Helldivers, obviously, but because the game is so laser focused on immersion, it doesn’t feel like it is.

[empty bloom]

Reminds me of what sucked me into BF1 so hard tbh.

Even with no voice chat, the game's mechanics and environments and player interactions drove a much more immersive stake into the game's heart.

(Also, helldiver's VAs sell the everloving bejeezus out of what's going on, considering the sheer desperation they get into.)

[tough edge]

Which is just so wicked to me, because you really feel like there's a lot more going on than menus and loading screens. Even sitting here while typing this, I can hear the TV going off in-game talking about Automatons, Terminids, recruitment, Super Earth, a front under attack, etc.

Also, to your point earlier, there's no catering to multiple groups. It's either, you enjoy our game or you don't. It's player-driven with a team of GMs playing in the back-end, which adds weight to things (take the whole Tien Kwan mission for example)

[stoic hamlet]

On that note, did you know they have different ways of saying their lines depending on the situation?

Like, if you’re under fire and retreating, they’ll sound panicked. If you’re under fire but advancing, they’ll sound energized and aggressive. If someone dies beside you, they go back to panicked.

If you get shot or injured in the leg or arm, it actually affects you - not your stats (it affects those as well) but also your physical model. If you get an injured leg, you can see your character struggle to put weight on it and visibly limp. Injured arm? They hug it close to their chest protectively, etc.

[empty bloom]

Yep, one of the first things I noticed.

SWEET LIBERTY MY LEG

[stoic hamlet]

Or if you’re running up or down a hill, they shift their weight to keep themselves from falling, or even seem to stumble.

[empty bloom]

BF1, again, had a similar way of delivering lines-with the German VAs apparently lifting and running in studio to generate additional strain to their voice under duress.

If multiple people bayonet charged at the same time, they'd all scream in unison.

[stoic hamlet]

Or, on the topic of small you’ll never notice details - your fighter:

When she pulls up from a gun run, you can see her deploy flares to ward off any missiles or what have you.

If there’s AA guns in the area, they’ll track her as she comes down and then ascends.

Small stuff you’ll never notice and that doesn’t actually matter, but once you see it you can’t not appreciate it.

[empty bloom]

Panic lines would trigger if you were under fire for a long period, or if multiple people died in quick succession next to you.

[empty bloom]

The panic lines would also not occur if you were killing people yourself.

I wonder if Halo can even support such behavior effectively as opposed to flocking.

Organically.

I know it can do so for AI.

I think, ultimately, end of the day

Halo needs to stop relying so damn hard on 'well, it's Halo' to make sales.

It's been a damn albatross that they can't avoid.

[meager pier]

With Halo 7, man I hope they build off what Infinite started, while bringing characters like Lasky, Halsey, and others back, and let’s please see Offensive Bias make his big game entrance

[tough edge]

It's all the little things combined that truly make this game. Some of the sunrises/sunsets in this game are just insane too

[stoic hamlet]

It’s also a proper day night cycle.

Like, if you’re in the right spot, you can watch the sun rose and set in real time.

[bronze prawn]

why high charity take so long to arrive to alpha halo, i mean the battle last over 4 days and they arrived after the ring was destroyed

and we know after regret arrives to delta halo, in a couple of days high charity and his defense fleet arrive

[rough thunder]

High charity never went to alpha halo but if you are talking about the ark its because it made a normal slip space jump and those take time

It didn’t use the portal at voi or anything like that

[bronze prawn]

i mean the high charity under covenant control

[rough thunder]

It never went to any halos under covenant control

Alpha got destroyed in the first game

Lore wise that normally wouldn’t matter but the concept of high charity wasn’t a thing until 2 and since that was the first time the covenant encountered a halo they couldn’t necessarily retcon it

[viscid night]

Unless otherwise, of course

[rough thunder]

Sure. But in this case there is no other wise

[viscid night]

Touché

[scarlet hinge]

it's quite literally situated at Alpha Halo's debris field in the very opening cutscene of Halo 2

[carmine sleet]

It's likely that High Charity got to Delta Halo so fast because of what happened at Alpha Halo, last thing the Covenant wanted was to lose another ring to the same "Demon" that destroyed the first

It's not like Chief can take on an entire fleet solo with a BR

[rough thunder]

Oh right im tripping

[rough thunder]

Sure but then again it's probably just proximity

They would've been going as fast as they could towards any ring

[rough thunder]

But yea there was probably more urgency because regret's journey to delta was a retreat as opposed to Particular justices' attack on the autumn at alpha

Or whatever the fleet was idk if it was particular justice

[carmine sleet]

It was Particular Justice at Alpha, Thel's fleet

[rough thunder]

Yeah thats right

Also obviously they had to contact high charity so particular justice may have wanted to wait to like "clear out" the unsc in preparation for its arrival

Then got annihilated by the flood

[sonic lagoon]

What vehicles did Insurrectionists use?

[rough thunder]

Probably repurposed UEG/UNSC vehicles like most insurgents in real life would do

[bronze prawn]

whaterever they can get

[rough thunder]

Yea

[bronze prawn]

in the show they use AK47 after like 500 years

[rough thunder]

Well that's non canon

[orchid kettle]

We hear a lot about stolen lil space craft for innies, but not really anything to do with ground vehicles

honestly it'd probably just be civilian cars with machine guns welded on

In fact yeah, I think in Silent Storm we hear about the ones at Biko having Warthogs

[bronze prawn]

in the last battle of admiral cole

he kinda uses a rebel fleet that he ask for help rigth

commanded by his ex or something like that

[autumn plaza]

A guy had a Desert Eagle in Shados of Reach. At least the AK is a solid platform. A Deagle is not an ideal weapon for anyone with limited supplies out on their own.

[empty bloom]

I feel like it actually wouldn't be that hard to find knockoff AKs on the frontier of human space.

Real world hobbyists already make recreations of incredibly old firearms. A frontier firearms company selling a bareboned gun off of 20th century design specifications doesn't sound too far fetched.

Considering the UNSC's standard issue guns are typically real world calibers, there's not even a noteworthy logistical bottleneck.

[carmine sleet]

Also the AK is such a universal rifle design in pop culture at this point that even if people didn't use them anymore by the time Halo is set, a weapon that looks like one appearing in Halo wouldn't feel too far fetched

[stoic hamlet]

I still find that scene absurd.

It just feels too….idk

I’m also not sure about them making knock-off AK’s or whatever. That is, I could see it, but it feels lazy to me, lol

[empty bloom]

Laziness is the name of the game in arms dealing, methinks.

[stoic hamlet]

To an extent.

Obviously you use what works.

Most mainstay weapon’s systems today are over 70 years old, of course.

But like, in 500 years? I can’t imagine people would be making reports of the AK or AR in any major numbers.

Like, we don’t see major usage of a Portuguese Arqubuse, after all, even among historical firearms enthusiasts.

But that’s basically what people imply when they mention you’d find AK’s and stuff around. And I just don’t see it.

[carmine sleet]

Doesn't need to look 1 to 1, just have enough characteristics to make it clear what inspired it

[empty bloom]

Right, but UNSC weaponry isn't, to our knowledge, different enough to matter. Even then, modern hunters absolutely still use crossbows and muzzleloaders.

Maybe not for frontier defense-but any port in a storm, as they say.

[finite pagoda]

Hello?

[molten escarp]

Does it ever clarify if the arbiter was able to completely wipe out the covenant? I dont think we heard much about them in audio logs in infinite so are they still around?

[carmine sleet]

If you mean completely eradicating all splinter groups of the Covenant empire, no, there's still others out there, Jul's Covenant is practically wiped out with nobody left who could lead it like Jul did

[molten escarp]

But odds are they arent coming back?

[carmine sleet]

Closest would be Sali 'Nyon but he's likely not going to win over those who were still loyal to Jul after he split from his Covenant

[carmine sleet]

We could see other factions but when it comes to factions made up of the Covenant species, the Banished are the most powerful right now

[rough thunder]

Yeah like the other guy said insurgents will use whatever they can get their hands on

UNSC or orherwise

[rocky ember]

I wonder, how's the economy in Halo lore and universe?
Considering we are multi-planetary/multi-galactic species and ranked high on the Forerunners species menu/tier list, how do usual citizens survive or live?

One would assume most if not all jobs would be automated too, or?

Do we have any info on that

Hard to believe or imagine that considering how advanced Halo humans are, that they'd be living like today (in terms of money/work) etc

[bronze prawn]

i think like the AIs are the only thing that automatize the things

like the ones at contact harvest, halo 3 ODST

[unique rune]

We don’t have a whole lot of info on that kind of stuff but it varies quite a bit depending on the location

[bronze prawn]

we know that to galactic money at least for humanity is the credit

we know how many species at the covenant like to gamble and the jackals were basically pirates

[rocky ember]

I see, so it's actually similar to today's IRL then?

[unique rune]

By appearances, most things don't seem to have changed a whole lot, yeah.

[bronze prawn]

somebody play exodus to see if theres something help here 🙂

[obsidian thistle]

Huh

https://twitter.com/Halo/status/1770506885893931215

Halo (@Halo) on X

“Get ready to meet my little friend!” 💥

Step into the shadows and eclipse the competition with the VK78 Commando.

#Halo101

Twitter · Mar 20, 2024, 5:45 PM

Something "interesting"

Keep watching

[carmine sleet]

Seems like there's a glitch in the system

[obsidian thistle]

I encourage people to google terms... that they see

🙂

(Hey not everything is a Halopedia thing)

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-lorelord

Jeez this has a LOT

And I wasnt expecting Alex to cover stuff I often peddled (told) to Fans regarding the Domain.

Kinda thought he'd get a big "no"

XD Glad I was wrong aha

[fair hazel]

Bitterness of the vanquished

[last anchor]

Stop starin at me with them big ol eyes

[hushed plover]

Instructions unclear - now roleplaying as a post-apocalyptic soldier in a public park. Saw a bird

[bronze prawn]

what does the covenant carbine shoots

it seems to be some green rock but it doesnt shoot plasma

[tribal trench]

its like

uranium or something

all i know is that its kinetic and very radioactive

[fair hazel]

Post-covenant war carbinesa rent radioactive

[reef orbit]

Who thinks that there should be a forerunner saga movie series

[carmine sleet]

That's just a different ammo type though, right? Like the radioactive rounds still exist and can be used

[carmine sleet]

Nah, a film likely wouldn't do any of those books justice

[flat valve]

yes there should be a prequel trilogy of the events leading up to the firing oh the halo array

[swift pulsar]

Not me!

[royal tartan]

Who wins

A pre-covenant band (2 legions worth) of Sangheili privateers land on the uncharted world of Arrakis (no imperium) for surveying and resource extraction. They park their single Useumru-pattern voidpiercer in orbit and deploy to the ground via early variants of the Mikpramu-pattern Warrior Transports. They they immediately begin resource extraction in the deep desert, the fremen engage them.

Scenario 1: a sandworm attacks a mining group, supported by two phantoms, all ground troops have no thrust packs, but are armed and shielded.

Scenario 2: a fremen military unit is ambushed and engaged by a small lance of sangheili armed with carbines, rifles and burnblades, 2 have cloaks, all are shielded.

Scenario 3: 2 phantoms vs 2 ornithopters, the ornithopters have door gunners, and are armed with rockets.

Scenario 4: 2 ornithopters vs 2 banshees

Scenario 5: all out war, all ground forces engage in warfare, the voidpiercers limited vehicles and infantry are deployed to attack a fremen sietch in the south, including 2 wraiths, 7 ghosts, 3 phantoms, and foot marched sangheili, and those on the vehicles.

Scenario 6 (final): The voidpiercer moves into atmosphere, with defenders making ready, ornithopters mount their air wings and move to board it.

[unique rune]

whichever side you want to win

[carmine sleet]

The side I know more about since I know Halo lore more

[fair hazel]

Older onese and older aches of ammo

[reef orbit]

There is. It's called the forerunner saga

[astral ermine]

If the 'Grunts' in Halo were not actually aliens but just representatives of a local population, I wonder what local recipe Master Chief would use to communicate with them

[bronze prawn]

?

[carmine sleet]

Yeah I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking how Halo would go if the Covenant enslaved humans to fight other humans?

[glass lagoon]

My phone is 9 percent, wow

Brb!

And now much better!

[bronze prawn]

dont read if you havent watch halo 2x8 but i have a question,|| in the finale chief kills this arbitrer " var gatanai" What elite military rank has the master chief (series, comic, games) not killed yet? , with the death of the inquisitor another rank is fulfilled||

[wise snow]

what does this mean

[spare narwhal]

How good is 'the flood' book, team

[obsidian thistle]

Depends what yer after.

If yer after an adaption of Halo: Combat Evolved

Its a mixed bag

If yer after to learn more about the events around the CE campaign.

Its brilliant

[spare narwhal]

I'm following on from The fall of reach

completed all the games tho

[obsidian thistle]

Well its got worth! 🙂

You'll feel for some characters

[reef orbit]

Are you doing a thing where your like doing a halo book marathon or are planning on reading all the books

[spare narwhal]

No not really, I haven't read in a whileee but picked up the flood right after finishing TFOR, just never got to starting it

[bronze prawn]

what did the covenant species eat ?

[empty bloom]

This is a traditional Jackal gumbo/stew.

I am not kidding.

[obsidian thistle]

(Theres an animated version of that)

[carmine sleet]

Show us the animated one

[bronze prawn]

I mean

chief had to survive with that or anything else in the two weeks he spent on the dreadnough

[meager pier]

A night at Taco Bell

[royal tartan]

Where though

[obsidian thistle]

You all asked for it

https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/653997082282319872

Xbox (@Xbox) on X

"Season two of #HUNTtheTRUTH is so good." —@karldpeterson
Get that goodness. E04 is out now: http://t.co/eXpncm1fR5
https://t.co/kLwRQF7zwx

Twitter · Oct 13, 2015, 6:13 PM

[bronze prawn]

Has humanity find all halos ?

[empty bloom]

Yes.

[stoic hamlet]

They haven’t gone to them all, though.

[deep citrus]

Has there been any like. Deep dives into how modern forces would do against the Halo Universe? We have no defense against orbital bombardment, but ground forces are very similar. So long as the UNSC actually wanted the planet they probably wouldn't destroy it, and from all I've read the UNSC doesn't seem to like attritional battles.

[carmine sleet]

You say that as if the UNSC goes round blowing planets up

[deep citrus]

It's the quickest and cheapest way to solve things realistically. But you can move factories and production down pretty far.

UNSC vs modern humanity is kinda shockingly evenly matched up until the UNSC starts bombing them from orbit lol Spartans are an X factor, for sure, but as best I can tell they're not really meant for fighting in the type of battle humanity would put up-which would be attritional as hell. It's kinda hard for me to tell how it'd go when neither the UNSC or covenant make extensive use of artillery

[runic wharf]

I mean

Glyke, Joyous Exultation, and Far Isle all have something to say on the matter

[carmine sleet]

Those aren't exactly examples of the UNSC blowing up planets on the regular

Glyke was blown up by a team out of contact at the end of a war they didn't know had already ended and Joyous Exultation was by chance due to a Covenant Engineer fixing a Nova

[drowsy mesa]

No; Installations 01, 02, and 06 are still missing

[bronze prawn]

Why didnt spark just beam the hell out of chief in CE or tartarus in H2

[ruby canopy]

I think he underestimated chief in ce. And Tartarus was looking to activate the ring which is what spark wanted as well

For 2 different reasons, but the goal was the same

[carmine sleet]

To add to this, Cortana had the index, killing Chief risked destroying the Index, even if he did instruct his Sentinels to "Save his head, destroy the rest"

[slate hinge]

Okay just realised this, if halo reach takes place after halo wars why is it there are Spartans in halo wars?

[empty bloom]

Uh... Because Spartans existed for years before Halo Reach?

[slate hinge]

The entire plot of halo reach is the creation of Spartans though

[empty bloom]

It literally isn't.

[slate hinge]

Literally half the book probably even more than that is them being secretly trained and created

[empty bloom]

The plot of Reach is Reach's fall, and the plot of Fall of Reach covers the creation of the Spartan IIs.

[empty bloom]

Oh, you mean Fall of Reach.

Where the titular Fall of Reach is over 20 years after the Spartan Program's success.

[slate hinge]

20? Isn’t master chief meant to only be like 40 tho?

[dusk jetty]

Yes because he was augmented at 14

[empty bloom]

Your understanding of the Halo timeline's... Really off, right now.

[slate hinge]

Wasn’t it 8?

[dusk jetty]

No

Conscripted at 6, augmented at 14

[empty bloom]

The Spartan II program started in 2511, Chief was augmented at 14 in the year 2525, and the events of Halo Wars 1 take place in 2531.

The events of the FALL of Reach, not the entire book, take place in 2552.

The events of Halo Wars 1 take place about 20 years before Reach (the game and the actual destruction of Reach).

[slate hinge]

Didn’t realise it took him that long to get augmented, I also thought spartans were only used for super secret missions until reach

I guess that makes sense tho

[empty bloom]

They were secret force multipliers and relatively hidden from the public eye for the majority of the war.

Kind of an open secret type deal.

[slate hinge]

Then how did captain cutter get them? I kinda forgot the story of halo wars but i thought he kinda just stumbled into the war and wasn’t on an assigned mission

[empty bloom]

Because they were assigned to Cutter.

[slate hinge]

Makes sense I guess lol

[carmine sleet]

Aye, and the other Spartans seen in HW1 (Omega Team) are still out in the galaxy doing missions (Or at least three of them anyway)

[stoic hamlet]

They actually technically weren’t.

They were attached to the done shield operation, but weren’t really assigned to the Spirit.

[empty bloom]

Ah, fair.

[last anchor]

They just kinda hitched a ride off.

[tall tusk]

I know there are two Infinity-class ships, but what’s in second for most powerful UNSC ship class?

[stoic hamlet]

Probably the Vindication.

[tall tusk]

Ok

[fair hazel]

Cutter just took them and went off with them

[carmine sleet]

They didn't have time to get off before the SoF left system

[fair hazel]

I wonder how mad command was

[carmine sleet]

I wonder how Halsey would've reacted

Especially given Red Team's status as former washouts

[empty bloom]

"Years of expensive reconstructive surgeries, wasted!"

[bronze prawn]

how exaclty the flood got the gas mine in halo 2

it came from the ring, it was in cryo, ???

[carmine sleet]

Even better, she's just like the cabbage merchant from ATLA and goes "My Spartans!!"

[carmine sleet]

The Threshold Gas Mines also served as research facilities for the Flood

[dark salmon]

So in like a sense is forge technically part of the spartan ones or since his father if I'm not mistaken was part of it heard that floating around for a bit?

[unique rune]

No

Some people have speculated that his father could have been an ORION subject, and then by extension John Forge himself might've been a Spartan 1.1, but there's not really any solid evidence or official info to back that up.

So for now he's just a normal human.

[dark salmon]

Fair

[wise snow]

So what does the human public really know about the Flood? Do they know it exists at all?

[obsidian thistle]

Its public

Outpost Discovery covered it in-universe

One could say at a surface level however

[last anchor]

Presumably the true threat of them is kept closer under wraps.
I still cannot believe the UNSC put a preserved Flood spore on display in an area with civilians in it.

[molten root]

Not even the flood can beat tourism

[carmine sleet]

Is it confirmed to be a real one?

[scarlet quiver]

Wouldnt you think that if the world survived a zombie infestation, that they wouldnt put one on display, just to showcase???

I am pretty sure the description would be quite similar.

[carmine sleet]

I guess I just am much more cautious about alien parasites that could easily wipe out everything

[bronze prawn]

there are things that humanity better never discovers ....

[empty bloom]

Funny enough, the startlingly incorrect description of how it infects people makes me think it's not real.

... I mean, it's obviously not real, but you know.

[ruby canopy]

A mindless puppet unless you’re the ultimate chad pvt. Jenkins

Rip to the greatest

[carmine sleet]

I wouldn't exactly describe what Jenkins went through as him being "the ultimate chad"

[ruby canopy]

Without a doubt one of the saddest and most harrowing moments in all of halo. I forget if it was a freak accident or what, but the fact that he could resist and fight back was definitely an ultimate chad move

[empty bloom]

More the 'wraps around your head' part.

Instead of, y'know, "Burrowing deep inside your mouth/chest/shoulder/wherever it really can"

[carmine sleet]

It's not a fun way to go

[ruby canopy]

Yeah, that part is definitely a little odd. I can only imagine that it was worded like that to make it less grotesque for the public or whoever wrote that didn’t quite understand the flood

Which to make it less grotesque for the public don’t make sense either, because of all the other details they give

[bronze prawn]

are keyes or jenkins really "saved"

doesnt their minds belong to the flood for eternity

[ruby canopy]

Their mind, soul, or being, however you want to word it, is definitely gone. But their knowledge was absorbed

As far as I understand

[empty bloom]

Kinda iffy, IMO, I don't know if getting consumed by primal flood 'saves' your essence like it does normally.

[bronze prawn]

not saved of being consumed, more "saved" of finally get killed

a way to end your pain

[empty bloom]

There is no ending the pain if you're consumed by the flood, normally.

Even when your physical body is destroyed.

[bronze prawn]

so in theory heres a fact ?

[empty bloom]

Pretty much.

[ruby canopy]

That’s interesting. Doesn’t really make sense to me. I can kind of imagine how knowledge could be absorbed

But how is the essence of something absorbed? That is definitely beyond my imagination

[empty bloom]

This is kinda why my eyes fog over when Forerunner-flood lore comes up.

[ruby canopy]

Lol

[carmine sleet]

Think of it as having a cup of water and standing next to a lake. If you pour that water into the lake, you can't just recover that water as it's mixed in with the water of the lake

[empty bloom]

Except the lake also hates you for existing.

[carmine sleet]

Basically

[ruby canopy]

Damn. If that’s the case the forerunners were really fighting fire with fire with digitizing people for warriors

[bronze prawn]

i dont think the prometheans are in constant pain

from all things sound a better thing to be consumed by the flood

[ruby canopy]

Not that they were in constant pain, but just how essence can be absorbed

[carmine sleet]

Also many of the Prometheans were created by the Ur-Didact against the wishes of the other Forerunners

[empty bloom]

I think they're definetly in-pain, just not in a conventional sense of pain.

[bronze prawn]

is that a slow or quick convertion, in "composer" seems quite slow and painful but in the terminals they just banished from existence

[carmine sleet]

If we're talking about the initial being hit by the composer beam, it's not too short of a process, as seen in Halo 4

But there's clearly pain given how Tilson reacted to the process happening

You know, I wonder how Tilson's essence is doing these days?

[empty bloom]

According to Epitaph? ||Not very happy. ||

[bronze prawn]

isnt she now part of the domain

not that is "fixed"

[tall tusk]

Do y’all think we’ll learn more about Spartan B312 ?

[bronze prawn]

what is spartan B312

it seemed to me that name or spartan never existed

[tall tusk]

Lol

The Banished are fun and all but I miss fighting the Covenant. What are the chances we’ll get another game set during the Human-Covenant war? Playing as a younger B312 would be fun

[bronze prawn]

depending of your sources, B312 could have just spent his life figthing rebels, or destroying covenant fleet after fleet

he migth be a bounty hounter, a personal killer, a headhunter a hyperlethal

[tall tusk]

Playing as a ONI assassin would be fun and I could see him being the protagonist.

[carmine sleet]

I don't think Six would've been allowed to go bounty hunting given that bounty hunters work for anyone who pays well and Six was basically an assassin for ONI. Not really allowed to work for anyone else

Also hyperlethal isn't some special title for specific Spartans, all Spartans are hyperlethal

[empty bloom]

GI Joe sounding designation.

Hyper Lethal and its consequences have been a disaster for Halo's credibility.

... Also, what the hell is with people pretending to be Noble Six and then never knowing anything about him as a character?

[fair hazel]

unfortunately some people seem to be very attached with very shallow characters but don't appreciate more deep and complex ones

[empty bloom]

I wish it didn't bug me as much as it admittedly does.

[stoic hamlet]

We also know quite a bit about B-312, technically.

We know his planet of birth, rough age, gender. Rough date of conscription, assigned unit, etc.

[unique rune]

society if Halo fans would let go of an OC donut steel puppet made to die

[gusty star]

Easier for their minds to understand unfortunately

[red grove]

ok so the operation goes: 4 sabres assault a corvete (they must be destroyed) spartans in sabres swiftly leave the sabres either land on the ship before spartans land on the corvete a Paris class frigate uses mac rounds to beat down the shields after the shields are gone the spartans breach into the corvete, enter the bridge to cut any means of communication to the rest of the fleet then the spartans have control over doors so they can make safe way towards the target cargo the covenant on the corvette will not know whats going on then 3 teams of odsts board the corvete to support the Spartans in their way out

is there any thing wrong with this battle plan

[bronze prawn]

the 3 ODST teamns ?

the spartans are more of capable of handling the battle at the corvette alone i think

[unique rune]

I’m inclined to say everything sounds wrong with it

[bronze prawn]

what the deal with the corvette

why dont just leave a longsword in and let it explode when the sheilds come back

or use a MAC cannon

[red grove]

3s ?

[bronze prawn]

depends

your "problem" is not specefic enough

[red grove]

it has a "package"

[bronze prawn]

so it has to be captured

the spartans onboard, have shields ?

[red grove]

its large

baisicly it will slow them down

[red grove]

ye

[bronze prawn]

it is red team - osiris team - blue team- grey team - silver team - cobalt team - noble team

[red grove]

they are more along the lines of noble team

[bronze prawn]

is the package alive, an AI, a bomb, an EPM

[red grove]

but one is a tank one is a light scout one is a haker and one is a deafult

[carmine sleet]

What armour are they wearing, Mjolnir or SPI?

[red grove]

mjolnir v(b)

[carmine sleet]

(Side note, hell yeah on the Yang profile picture)

[red grove]

thanks

they are armed with smgs,magnums

[bronze prawn]

they have to retrieve a package or deliver a package

[red grove]

retrieve

its like long and bulky

[carmine sleet]

Like a cryotube?

[red grove]

so turns are tight

[red grove]

nahh

[bronze prawn]

is it alive

is a prisioner, some kind of tech

[red grove]

no it not halo legends the package

[red grove]

its a forerunner artifact in cased in covenant container

[red grove]

but it is along the lines of anime

[cunning path]

What’re we discussing?

[red grove]

this

[bronze prawn]

some sorta of a hypothetical spartan operation

the corvette, is separated from the entire fleet

[red grove]

in the midle of fall of reach

[red grove]

ye bcs it just stole one of chatherine halseys property

halsey dosent know tho

[bronze prawn]

they have to return to the paris frigate ?

[red grove]

onto a long sword and then on to a transport that takes it of reach

[bronze prawn]

then why just enter with sabers, EXTERMINATE the crew and leave with the sabers and a longsword

[cunning path]

It depends, it would canonically be more advantageous to take the entire ship rather than retrieve a package and leave, as if they don’t, the ship could enter emergency slipspace

[bronze prawn]

they have shields and SMGS are veterans and well trained

should be so much trouble i think

[cunning path]

If this is a plan where they take it to Reach, I’m assuming this is earlier in the war

[red grove]

bcs the ship is gonabe blown up to smitherines by mac rounds

[bronze prawn]

how heavy or slowler is the tech

[red grove]

?

[bronze prawn]

i mean, could just a quickly in and out operation

[cunning path]

Ships don’t have infinite MAC rounds, and majority if not all of its MAC would be used on the corvettes shields as they canonically take several MAC rounds to penetrate. At least in the earlier days of the war which I’m assuming you’re talking about

[red grove]

the shields arent up bcs the bridge is loked out for every one

[red grove]

fall of reach

[cunning path]

If you are, their primary mission would reasonably be infiltrate the corvette and take control, because ONI section 3 techs need to study

[cunning path]

Ahhh okay

[bronze prawn]

the ODST teamns seems unncesary

so they have to "freeze" the ship in space, retrieve a package and escape

in that time cut ot the communcations and what the frigate does in that time

[red grove]

theres only 2 spartans avaible to fight while geting the artifact

and the odsts need to secure a sort of transport

maybe 3 is too much idk

[bronze prawn]

the ODST arent gonna last long

[red grove]

depends how many a team is

[bronze prawn]

how are THEY pretend to leave

[red grove]

when the artifact is in the pelican

the ship does hold a specific individual

[red grove]

probably in a pelican

[bronze prawn]

the corvette

has any kinda of spec ops team of covenant

chieftains, swordmaster, those red elites from headhunters

a prelate .....

[red grove]

most minors on there are traded for zealots

and a elite worth a spartan

[bronze prawn]

that punt things really bad

[cunning path]

Silent Shadow?

[red grove]

probably

[cunning path]

If so silent shadow weren’t really meant for that kinda mission

[red grove]

no they are not on there

[cunning path]

Bloodstars would be better picks

[bronze prawn]

if you replace zealost for minors in the corvette

i dont see the UNSC winnign

[red grove]

not all tho

[cunning path]

Minors are the lowest rank while Zealots are pretty high, but they’re still a decent match for Spartan-II’s

[red grove]

but like max 4 groups

[bronze prawn]

is there a field marshal ?

[red grove]

probabl but they might be dead if they do go around the bridge

[bronze prawn]

a zealot squad with a field marshal

is more than capable than killing the UNSC forces onboard

[red grove]

well there would be a mercenary above any of ranks

hes his own case but just count him as a 2 marshals il speak of him tomorow

[red grove]

but also the spartans did manipulate the door locks so some personel are locked out of the fight

[bronze prawn]

is there an AI to help them

like cortana to guide them and lock-open doors

[red grove]

nah but a spartan hacker

[red grove]

and u dont need much hacking from a area where u can control everything

[bronze prawn]

so they sized the control room of the ship

i dont remeber the word

[red grove]

yess

[red grove]

well it implies through seizing the means of communication through the bridge

[bronze prawn]

bridge

that it

are hunters onboard ?

[red grove]

probably

[empty bloom]

You wouldn't need an AI or a Spartan hacker for this.

It's what devices such as the REDSCAN are for.

[red grove]

i know but the spartan is a haker any ways

[bronze prawn]

great, the cavalry has arrived

[unique rune]

I mean. Assuming we’re dealing with a Ceudar-pattern corvette like the Ardent Prayer, the comms center is a separate facility from the ship’s bridge.

[red grove]

ye the ceudar

[bronze prawn]

if those spartans arent as fast or as deadly as six was

they wont get to the bridge before the covenant ask for reinforcments

[empty bloom]

Six wasn't notable in either regard by any quantifiable measure, so they probably are about the same level.

[red grove]

ok then they just use the control roof to deter accses to comms

[red grove]

yes one is like six

[bronze prawn]

so six, wasnt special ?

[red grove]

not specalISED

[hot zodiac]

Six was special. Now it's uh, debatable.

[empty bloom]

Not by any really notable observation. His combat record sounds good, but there's entire Spartan cadres explicitly designed to do the same mission type he did and we know he wasn't the only one who did it.

[red grove]

but he all rounded thats it

[unique rune]

Any fighters being used for the opening stages of the operation project probably aren’t going to be Sabres either, given that they were a top-secret prototype only being fielded in limited numbers for Inner Colony defenses.

They’d more likely be some version of the Longsword, Baselard, or Nandao.

[empty bloom]

Hell, wiping insurrectionists is... Not exactly hard, by Spartan standards, considering Spartans are basically punching down against other humans. It's like saying Six is the best soldier ever when all he's fought is six year olds.

[red grove]

ohh they are prototypes

hmmm

[bronze prawn]

i mean, he did it good enough to have the "privelege" of shields

[red grove]

what other jet like are there

?

[bronze prawn]

that is a real privelege from a spartan III

[red grove]

not longsword bcs too big

[empty bloom]

Baselards, Nandaos, Booster Frames, Broadswords, Longswords.

[unique rune]

I literally just named the three models of space fighter that would more likely be used

[bronze prawn]

the ones of the package

captured seraphs blah blah

[empty bloom]

Booster frames would make a lot of sense for a Spartan mission because that's kinda what Booster Frames are designed for.

[red grove]

so narow these jet likes to ones bfr fall of reach

[empty bloom]

Fun fact, Spartan Makovich (The one who died 1v1'ing Jega) was apparently someone who served in the Sabre program, presumably alongside Six.

[red grove]

damn

[empty bloom]

Booster Frames are pretty cool.

Very much designed for Spartans. They were literally initially designed for Spartan II use, but eventually got rolled out enough that IVs were deploying with them after the war.

[unique rune]

Wish I’d picked up the Mega Bloks set of that thing

[red grove]

i know but the covenant needs to know that the attakers arent spartans and that they been blown to smitherines

[empty bloom]

Why would that matter?

Covenant don't really have a set plan to deal with Spartans very often, both due to rarity and arrogance.

[red grove]

element of suprise so they dont signal for back up

[bronze prawn]

shoot, demons coming, we have an important tech piece

SLIPSACE JUMP NOOOOOOOW

[empty bloom]

The Covenant aren't going to assume things they've never seen before are Spartans, and Booster Frames are exceptionally rare.

And they'll likely say what's happening to them regardless of what the Spartans are riding, and are arrogant enough to think they can win even then.

There's justified concern, and then there's arbitrary. That concern falls into the department of the latter.

[red grove]

but what would be special enough to use this un seen tech

deamons

[empty bloom]

The Covenant don't think like that.

[unique rune]

What unseen tech, a gun with rocket boosters bolted on?

[empty bloom]

Hell, even humans don't think like that.

[red grove]

yes

[red grove]

damn

[empty bloom]

You're overthinking the Covenant response.

[unique rune]

The Booster Frame isn’t anything fancy or special, it’s flat out just engines, weapons, and a chair

[empty bloom]

Eh, it does have energy shields.

[red grove]

they are a alien race that is way older

[empty bloom]

And?

[red grove]

ok

[unique rune]

And also notable for being inflexible and slow to respond to things

[empty bloom]

What, you think that somehow doesn't mean they'll be incredibly arrogant, despite having...

How many games have the Covenant been in

Like 8 games and over 20 books

[bronze prawn]

i mean, you can easily recognize their high ranking troops in battlefield and target them

[unique rune]

In any case just have the UNSC frigate involved in this op jam the corvette’s comms until the boarding team makes it on
Literally just copy 90% of what they did for Operation UPPER CUT

[bronze prawn]

not very "efficient"

[empty bloom]

Like, even if they know they'll be Spartans, it doesn't matter, the Covenant doesn't habitually change their role just because they think something might be something that is less than a percent of a percent of a percent of the UNSC is a Spartan.

[red grove]

oki

[empty bloom]

Half the reason Spartans typically dumpstered the Covenant was because Spartans were such small fries in the grand scheme of things that the Covenant didn't really bother tracking Spartans or designating counter-Spartan teams.

[red grove]

well they got a special individual on board that knows these spartan but ok

[empty bloom]

On average, your trusty UNSC Frigate was more of a threat to a Covenant force than a Spartan.

Chief being a colossal outlier.

[red grove]

good point

[empty bloom]

Oh, even better. Guy's gonna triple his arrogance factor, knowing elites/brutes.

[bronze prawn]

didnt they make the prelate

[red grove]

lol

[bronze prawn]

their own spartan counter teams

[empty bloom]

Prelates weren't designed for that. They're similar to Spartans in role and use, but preexist first contact.

[red grove]

ok those guys

wth

ok im going to explain a key factor

kyonida is a masive 10ft elite

he aint no dummy either

[empty bloom]

Being dumb=/=Being arrogant.

[bronze prawn]

kyonda is the one who die as his fleet

[red grove]

lol

[bronze prawn]

because a freaking janitor grunt ligth up a nova bomb

[red grove]

but he knows these spartans

[unique rune]

I don’t think being 10ft tall inside the close quarters of a warship is an advantage either

[red grove]

he literaly had around 3 duels with them

[empty bloom]

I always hated that whole "Xytan was REALLY 13' tall" crap.

It was always so dumb.

[red grove]

same

[bronze prawn]

were all the same when a energy sword is put in our heart

[red grove]

he knows that these guys are jokes compared to the rest of their kind

[red grove]

true

theres only one that can over power him maybe 2

the rest are either cowards or too ocupied in the mess

hed probably use grunts as body shields

[gaunt geyser]

What were the covenant trying to achieve from activating a ring?

[red grove]

its a religous icon

baiscly the whole greater good thing

[gaunt geyser]

So they didn’t know it was gonna destroy the galaxy right?

[red grove]

yes

[unique rune]

They thought the activation of the Halo Array would bring about some kind of ascension to godhood

Most weren’t aware that all of that was a lie and would actually just kill everything

[bronze prawn]

after epitath

they were partially rigth

there is some kind of afterlife

[red grove]

@gaunt geyser i know ur keep on reacting to these mesages

[gaunt geyser]

Did the prophets know what it would do?

[unique rune]

Truth, Regret, and Mercy knew

[gaunt geyser]

Thanks for the info btw everyone 🙂

[bronze prawn]

How powerful was the ancient humanity infantry

I have seen people saying that they were as powerful as the spartans 2s

[empty bloom]

They were problably stronger, in all likelihood. The general theme of pre-fall humanity is that Spartan IIs, for all their positives, were pale imitations.

[sour adder]

Yo, everybody
reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/1bpyaxb/curious_questions_about_the_spartanii_roster/
Curious questions about the SPARTAN-II roster + guessing which washouts were or weren't known to their able peers

• Question #1: Who are the no-name dead and Beta-Red Spartans?
• Question #2: Thoughts on who the six other washouts were?
• Question #3: Should it have been three or four Spartans, especially as Halsey was kept in the dark about classifications? All the above four died in circumstances ONI probably couldn't obscure and gaslight Halsey into doubt
• Question #4: If Oscar and that no-name girl trainee offed themselves, did ONI resuscitate two more in mere months?
  Details in post

[empty bloom]

Hey CIA, quick question. https://haruspis.wordpress.com/2020/06/24/why-the-banished-are-the-perfect-antagonists-for-halo-infinite/ Is this accessible for you? Trying to get into it because I know it's got Infinite-pertinent info-the specific link in question, not the entirety of Haruspis' post.

@obsidian thistle

[stoic hamlet]

I’m pretty sure all those articles are inaccessible. Even to Haruspis, I think?

[empty bloom]

Gosh, I hope not.

I really wanna reread that, because I was super intrigued by that article.

[obsidian thistle]

Tis inaccessible

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/chief-sad-mc-gif-23227353

[bronze prawn]

Could have ancient humanity won against the forerruners

Without the flood presence

All the opinios i read give me the same result

[empty bloom]

Doubtful. They'd likely have done a lot better though.

[bronze prawn]

The forerruners win

[empty bloom]

The Forerunners are pretty damn OP.

[golden basin]

*I saw you standing at your ship, With armored hand on armored hip. Both my hearts began to pound; So lovely was what I'd found.

I love your brightly shining armor, Human named Commander Palmer. I wish that we-*

— Vel ‘Trokaik of the Swords of Sanghelios, before threatening to tear off the arms of an eavesdropping grunt

[bronze prawn]

Palmer is many things, but ugly isnt one of those

Is caked enough but not linda or kelly level

[golden basin]

Gotta appreciate that GEN2 armor

I also like some of that Vale cake

[empty bloom]

Can you people not talk about posteriors just once? Holy hell.

[last anchor]

No

[empty bloom]

MFW the furry is better at decency than most of the members of the server

[latent pewter]

It’s all very tiresome

[red grove]

im cooking a new operation idea

[red grove]

assault operation: freedoom blade
operation goal is pest control
location reach grass lands(plains)

1. spartan in "asset 1" flanks the enemy base from behind taking the enemy attention asset 1 is authorized to use high mobility tactics
2. marines in mongooses with spankr rocket launchers (5) assault the base in the order of destroying the 4 small bases(misc, barracks)
3. a group of odsts drop into the command station of the base to take down the leaders of the covenant force
4. odsts take supplies and get into a cougar that is delivered by misc unsc soldiers (drivers)
5. spartan in asset 1 switches roles with marines in mongooses and assumes the role of loading heavy supplies onto a pelican of to a paris class frigate
   4.spartan in asset 1 gets the pelican by the carriage hook and odsts escape in a cougar to attend different orders
6. mongoose team disperses and escapes the location

*asset 1 * is a make shift variant of the mark 1 hurunting ads but it has weaker armor strength and armaments and targeting is manual but it has great mobility beating a warthog it is armed with a tri barrel machine gun with only a supply of 200 rounds 100 (50. cal) each mag and a 6 round payload of missiles the spartan can only wear his helmet and a chest armout the mechanical suit has extra limbs that it can align manually to gain the ability to use infantry weapons and interact with more intricete elements(interactable tech)

[last anchor]

Sounds like a massive downgrade from MJLONIR in every possible way
And a walking ammo bomb if plasma so much as clips you

[empty bloom]

Sounds like bad fanfiction.

[last anchor]

Sounds like something you'd make using MEGA sets

[red grove]

lol

[red grove]

well it is a exo skeleton over a spartan in mjolnir already

its just the original hrunting mk1 ads is much more built compared to this variant but its still does give bonus strength and speed

mostly speed

the original had those reactive buble shield

but asset 1 has slower reaction and uses mjolnir type shields

the reaction speed varies if its going at moc 10 or stationary

so no accsidental power cuts

beams like beam rifle and covenant carabine can pass through bcs of the slower reaction time

and high caliber unsc weapons like sniper, dmr but spartan laser would be the best

[unique rune]

This sounds... entirely unnecessary

[last anchor]

Extremely so

[unique rune]

Not sure what the point of letting infantry whizz across a combat zone at Mach 10 even is unless your plan is to turn them into paste against a wall of nanolaminate

[red grove]

its a distraction so they can get sompe suplies from them

idk trying to make it more intresting that go to point A and killl everything posible

and trying to give the asset 1 another chance to shine

its baisicly warthog spartan and a hornet at the same time

[unique rune]

That sounds like fifteen different mechanical failures waiting to happen at the same time

[red grove]

well that didint happen last time

[unique rune]

Frankly I think if you wanted to write something more interesting than "kill everything" then you probably shouldn't have written up some overspecced do-everything superweapon into the scenario

[red grove]

well mech = cool

[empty bloom]

That's not a mech. That's an abomination.

[red grove]

HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark I ADS?

well if it does the job then its good

[unique rune]

Man I'd forgotten how much I actually dislike Prototype

[red grove]

do u

[unique rune]

I think it sucks

[red grove]

ok then

[unique rune]

The action is cool I guess but the writing is just.

Blegh.

[red grove]

what about the writing was bad

[unique rune]

Uninspired, trite. Boring. Names pulled from a bad fanfic that takes itself way too seriously.
"Ghost", "Hades Corps", lmao

[red grove]

ye same

only thing i care about is that it made a gundam like mech cannon

but mk1 mjolnir wasint bad either

why does every lore chanel on this planet prohibit sending images

[empty bloom]

Memes

They suck

[unique rune]

I mean, no, Mark I was kinda bad. I-III were really only useful as R&D platforms.

[empty bloom]

Mark III was the only redeemable prototype of the MJOLNIR Mark I-III platforms.

Hence why the Mark I ADS, Cyclops, Cyclops II, Mantis, and Geyrion platforms were all based off it.

Though the Geyrion being tangentially related always confused me a bit.

[red grove]

ye i think i meant mk3 the one in halseys notes

[unique rune]

Frankly I don't like the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mk.I in general. Feels tonally at-odds with Halo as a whole but it's also just bizarre to fit into the whole lineage of UNSC powered exoskeletons

[bronze prawn]

i simply cant take seriously with those names

[red grove]

well big mecha isint either

[unique rune]

Take it up with Norse mythology I guess

[red grove]

a sword that belongs to Unferth, who at one point has a drunken dispute with Beowulf

ygdrasil:the Norse tree of life, encompassing all nine worlds that are part of the ancient Norse view of the cosmos.

well these dont even corelate with the mech branches

[empty bloom]

It's goofy, and I honestly am not a fan of gundamesque mechs.

[unique rune]

I think they have their place in their own fiction, but it just doesn't really gel with Halo

When pretty much every other mech-type platform is some slow, lumbering repurposed cargo/construction thing, and then you just wedge in the Mk.I flying around like Iron Man...

[bronze prawn]

those mech is something you see in gears of war

even star wars

but not halo

[empty bloom]

Halo is literally a franchise built around emulating a franchise that uses those exact mechs.

[red grove]

?

[empty bloom]

Starship Troopers.

[red grove]

uhh

[empty bloom]

Look up "Starship Troopers Mechs" on Google.

[bronze prawn]

i though helldivers have taken that role of rip off of starship troopers

[red grove]

i thought u gona say halo spartans are gunam like

[empty bloom]

Not a decade ago.

[red grove]

the pathfinder armour looks like it but most that come up is ehh

gms look like mk v and gm sniper looks lik odst

[empty bloom]

The point's in the slow guns and legs mecha.

Like the Marauder.

[red grove]

ok

looks a bit eh

[empty bloom]

Not the point.

[red grove]

then whats

is the point

[empty bloom]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[unique rune]

I'm pretty sure MJOLNIR is also directly inspired by the Powered Suits from the anime adaptation

[empty bloom]

A lot of Halo is also based off of anime like Gundam.

And some random one I forgot the name of

[red grove]

gm

[red grove]

gms

[empty bloom]

No.

Anime.

A random ANIME.

[red grove]

most federation goons

[empty bloom]

Not a random thing from that other Gundam crap.

A DIFFERENT ANIME.

[red grove]

then show me

or tell

[empty bloom]

I'M PLAYING HELLDIVERS

[bronze prawn]

i think he dosnt know the anime dude

[red grove]

obviously he dosent know it

[empty bloom]

I did.

[bronze prawn]

hey, hes spreading manage democracy

[empty bloom]

But I'll answer when I'm not neck-deep in robots with chainsaws.

[unique rune]

I know Lorraine McLees said Gundam was part of the inspiration for like. Weapon and ship design. I don't think it factored into armor design though.

I'm like 99% sure they were playing off the anime Powered Suits there.

[red grove]

the gm kinda looks like mkv

[unique rune]

https://www.1999.co.jp/itbig98/10987817a3.jpg

[red grove]

and gm sniper looks like odst

[unique rune]

No one's ever given me image perms but whatever

[red grove]

see some inspiration

[red grove]

https://www.gunpla.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/ban977916_1_1478049393.jpg

[bronze prawn]

they re slowling turning into transformers stuff

[red grove]

also the wrist pad and lower leg armour

[red grove]

yeh

transformers is based on gundam

or inspired

[unique rune]

uh

no

not in the slightest

[red grove]

iy was a chain actualy

like the cyclone line or something

was between

[unique rune]

Transformers was primarily based on a pair of Takara toylines (Diaclone and Micro Change) that predate Gundam

[red grove]

ye diaclone

[unique rune]

Gundam was not involved in the slightest

[red grove]

damn

any thing about the cougar apc

[empty bloom]

THE IRRESPONSIBLE CAPTAIN TYLOR

THAT'S WHAT IT WAS

[unique rune]

are you okay

[empty bloom]

Oh and Zentradi ships from Marcoss

[empty bloom]

This

The anime thing I was referring to

A lot of Covenant's aesthetic is based off of this sort of animesque bio-metal-ship-crab-thing aesthetic.

[empty bloom]

Yes, I was just trying to find the thing

[red grove]

MY THRRE EYES ARE WIDE OPEN

[empty bloom]

But yeah Halo's super derivative. The Mantis and such are also pretty heavily based off of Metal Gear-in fact, a lot of Reclaimer era aesthetics are Metal Gear-esque.

[red grove]

i kinda see that

[empty bloom]

Amusing as it was to have HiddenX blithely compare MGS2's story to Halo 2's like Halo 2's was even fit to breathe the same air, 343i took a lot of visual inspiration from the cyborgs of the Metal Gear franchise-it's most evident with Spartans and mechs.

[red grove]

yeh

[red grove]

i made a chapter inspired by mgr but half way i forgot

like i had the option to have it where a hunter gets sliced in half by a spartan

but i forgot

what type of punk would halo be in out of curiosity

[empty bloom]

Closest to cyberpunk, I'd say.

[red grove]

i feel same

if alien punk was a thing

[last anchor]

The what platform?
That the Colossus?

Ir the "super Cyclops"

[empty bloom]

Mega Mantis

[last anchor]

Oh tbe one from Adrift

[empty bloom]

Yeppers

[versed helm]

What's everyone's thoughts on the chimera armor core

Specifically the lore around it

[empty bloom]

Originally I was kind of meh on it. It even has the universe-shrinking Halo Reach connection.

But I like the idea of portraying Rampancy as a sort of corrupting, violating 'toxic offloading' into Chimera wetware.

[sour adder]

A little tinge of curious

What do you think were the two recorded engagements that bumped the Master Chief's battle CSV 207 (c. August 2552) to 209 (c. August 2558)?

The literal first piece of Halo plot (The Fall of Reach, d'oh) established the former number, and the Halo 5 dossiers state the latter figure, and we know from Reach Data Drop 5 that Stanforth mentioned those 207 were the ones they could file on record.

Of course, if there were only two, it's pretty much glossing over Reachfall (his Gamma Station mission) and virtually Halo CE-4, plus his nonstop voluntary deployments with Blue Team afterwards)

Is all of Installation 04 up to Op. First Strike a singular record? Is it just Halo and then everything from Earth to Delta Halo and back and then Requiem a whole series of engagements? Lol

[royal relic]

what connection?

[sour adder]

Ayo, Stelf
From Ace of Combats
Anyway, @empty bloom was referring to the datapad discoverer becoming part of the Created and this AI Illuminati being made legit

[empty bloom]

^

The author of the crazed diaries from Reach, yeah.

[sour adder]

New topic, gents

Oh, additional: Why would the other battles be scrubbed from record, aside from obvious reasons like Halo/Ark involvement (even though Outpost Discovery publicized the hula hoops lol) and Kyle-esque 100,000-year-old alien daddies?
And were a large bit of the post-return deployments ONI-involved or little significance?
reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/1brhvd7/comment/kx93ztg/

[bronze prawn]

How exactly 20 MAC at reach hold over 300 covenant ships but at earth 14 Ships bypassed 300 MAC

And the defense fleets were quite similar

[sour adder]

It's like with Chiefy: Luck and mobility
Solemn Penance I think quickly dove to Africa, then not long after, many Covie ships did the same

[red grove]

whats the youngest posible spartan 3 by the time of halo infinite

[stoic hamlet]

Assuming they were born mid-2541, and recruited into Gamma Company at 4 years old.

[empty bloom]

Anyways, here's how a 4 year old can consent to life-changing augmentation surgery and admission into a supersoldier program.

[stoic hamlet]

“What have you always dreamed about?”

“To have parents.”

“No, to be a superhero!”

[empty bloom]

Something about the III program somehow grosses me out more than the II program.

I don't think it's the scale, I think it's the flimsier justification behind why it's "okay" that the kids are getting augmented and thrown into war.

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t think it was ever okay, tbf.

Everyone who proposes and green lights it in Ghosts of Onyx are disgusted with themselves, after all.

[royal relic]

I don't think it's flimsy, but definitely making soldiers out of children is never quite okay

[empty bloom]

I mean the part where people go "Oh well it's okay they signed up for it".

The justification being 'expendible Spartans' is secondary in this context.

Sorry, I tend to mean in the context of the fanbase,.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, in universe, only the III’s themselves and Fred in Last Light actually claim that with any gusto, which makes sense.

I’m just ignoring Mendez in Glasslands here, lol

[stoic hamlet]

Ah, fair, fair

[empty bloom]

That's a hell of a cope on their part, lmao.

[royal relic]

I mean, it's screwed up, but also like... them signing up is still something to say when compared to S-II that for the most part has no choice

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah it’s never held any water to me. I think a lot of people kind of “need” to justify it to make it not seem bad, for them.

But like, you can think something is really cool but also rightfully point out it’s [Words Not Allowed By Server]

[royal relic]

if anything, despite the screwed up-ness of the entire thing, I think that what makes them admirable

[empty bloom]

I think it's a mistake to really say they 'signed up'. A 4 year old couldn't sign up for anything.

[stoic hamlet]

It was coercion.

[empty bloom]

^

[red grove]

damn i did math and i got 33

[empty bloom]

In a twisted sense, the honesty of the II program in that regard almost comes across as relatively... Tolerable's not the right word. Less bad?

[stoic hamlet]

For the youngest? No.

[red grove]

but not gamma

[stoic hamlet]

It’s such a thin line though, lol

[royal relic]

like, if you think about it, the consent the S-III candidates gave was not just "yeah I want to join", it's "yeah I'm gonna jump off this perfectly fine airplane in the middle of the night with a parachute I've only was told to operate literally seconds ago into god knows where just for a chance to get back at the aliens that killed my entire family"

[empty bloom]

Oh, yeah, we're talking Aeldari monofilaments.

[stoic hamlet]

Stealing that. That’s great.

[red grove]

welll it was beter than the slum they were going to rot in

[empty bloom]

Considering most were canonically scared empty, I don't see most of them actually that motivated.

[empty bloom]

This reminds me of a cyberpunk moral conundrum from the newer DLC.

Where the same excuse is given.

[red grove]

heh

[stoic hamlet]

The youngest from Beta would be 25, by the way. Which I might need to double check because that seems a bit suspect.

[empty bloom]

Conveniently, bleeding and dying messily underneath a foreign star is not great either.

And I solved that moral conundrum by rendering the skull of the offending party with whatever gauge Rebecca's shotgun is.

[red grove]

going in to battle in a semi powered infilntration suit was cool

[empty bloom]

War isn't cool.

[red grove]

well its cooler than bleeding out as a war victim

[stoic hamlet]

Actually I think they were very hot, in the moment.

You know, being burned alive and stuff.

[red grove]

yeh

[royal relic]

no, that's the thing that people are missing, like, OBVIOUSLY they're scared, but in that moment filled with fear, there's a conscious choice to pick this path where they get to scream and rage against the world for one last time for a distant chance they may get a single shot against the genocidal aliens - they don't even know they'll get to be a Spartan or ODST, or even just run of the mill grunt

[empty bloom]

Uh... The hell would you call a gutted soldier but a war victim?

[red grove]

well beter to be ready for death then just die from bad luck

[empty bloom]

That is not how they're realistically going to be thinking of it when they are piss scared in the back of a Pelican about to do a night drop with 10 minutes at best of parachute instructions when they're barely old enough to be getting solid food with more than 4 ingredients.

[red grove]

so what would be the youngest beta by the time of fall of reach

[red grove]

hey

so thats good

whats the oldest

[stoic hamlet]

Alpha or Beta?

[red grove]

beta

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I'm almost annoyed they didn't mostly die from that, that was one of the most senseless and cruel segments of any book like that I've ever read in hindsight.

[stoic hamlet]

Anywhere from 19-21, assuming they had some older than the average.

[red grove]

ok

thats good

[royal relic]

look, even if it's not exactly how they think, the option is either basically do something absolutely insane, or not jump and just back down, which is an option

which most kids would take to begin with

[red grove]

were spartan 3 betas fertile

[stoic hamlet]

Even Mendez did a double take, lol. That tells you something.

[empty bloom]

Do not start.

[red grove]

its a general question

[stoic hamlet]

There are plenty of Reddit threads that answer that. We won’t be answering that today.

[empty bloom]

Your best course of action is to drop the subject.

Degenerate.

[red grove]

ewhh

any ways what kind of efect did smoothers cause on non spartan 3 gammas

[empty bloom]

I wonder if they intentionally had it come across as a cycle of abuse type thing or what.

I mean, I'm glad both are kind of a moot point now, even if it leaves IIIs in a weird and inconvenient position.

[royal relic]

what, the pelican jump? it's a great point honestly that accentuates the difference between S-II and S-III

[stoic hamlet]

They would t ever take them, so…

[red grove]

but what if

[stoic hamlet]

We have no idea.

[red grove]

ok

[empty bloom]

The IIIs in general.

And how Kurt handles it.

Like, from my perspective, being complicit in that affair puts Kurt far into the moral black.

[royal relic]

the things few people do to keep most sleep soundly at night

in any case, I appreciate the added dark shade

[empty bloom]

After a certain point-I feel like knowledge of that loops back around.

In terms of the whole 'done in the dark, to save the light' type crap.

[royal relic]

I mean it should, keeps you in check

[empty bloom]

Like, after a certain point, it's a farce.

No, you misunderstand-I think that statement is, ironically, naive, despite typically being stated for the purposes of outlining someone else's naiveté.

[red grove]

is the unsc able to produce sharper tools than in the 21 century

[empty bloom]

Yes.

[royal relic]

so what would you do instead then?

that's the cool part when arguing against a certain morally ambiguous decision, or perhaps a deplorable one, that I have discovered, is that then I ask myself when put in that same position, what would I do? would I make a better choice if I can judge someone else that harshly in hindsight

[red grove]

how much sharper by times x

[empty bloom]

I'd have stayed the course with Orion.

[empty bloom]

Magically fairy dust.

[royal relic]

Orion won't work until the first class of S-IV, Palmer and all, and by then it'd be all too late and Humanity would've died

[empty bloom]

Wrong.

[red grove]

ok

[empty bloom]

The resources that went into the II and III program don't cease to utterly exist just because the II and III program did. With development all in on the original adult-augmentee project, that's more hands to do more work. In turn that makes it more likely that the IV (now the Orion II) program would spur into existence earlier.

Maybe not to the same extent, but half the importance is volume.

[royal relic]

literally the augmentation of S-IV is built upon the lessons learned from S-IIs and S-IIIs, without the technical experience both afforded, the program would've taken a longer time to reach where S-IV is

[empty bloom]

And I fundamentally disagree with everything past 'without' that you just said.

It's true it did the former. Doesn't mean the latter is true.

[royal relic]

this is like telling people you can go to the moon after just deploying satellites to orbit

[empty bloom]

No, it isn't.

[royal relic]

yes it is

[empty bloom]

In your mind it's like that.

I don't see the parity.

They already knew how to augment adults. Augmenting kids massaged the process, but just because it massaged the process doesn't mean that it was necessary to the proving process.

This isn't a set of dominos, stacked in a line.

[royal relic]

augmenting kids doesn't just massaged the process, it's also part of the prototyping, research, and development of more effective, less intrusive augmentation methods, and finding ones that are successful and ones that aren't as

without it, you're going to ram your head into stumbling into the solution, hopefully

[empty bloom]

There is not a single part of that that actually required kidnapping 8 year olds.

Or letting them 'volunteer'.

[royal relic]

there is, it's literally the cornerstone on why literally we want to teach kids to be able to learn and do things since young

[ruby canopy]

If what Halsey said is true. Then it was required. As she believed they were more adaptive to augmentation

[empty bloom]

Halsey's also a narcissist who needed to be told no by a literal ancient supercomputer.

Who was somehow shocked that kidnapping kids isn't a stain on your reputation that doesn't go away.

[ruby canopy]

Even if she is, it doesn’t mean she was wrong in that regard

[empty bloom]

I'm not exactly inclined by the narrative the story presents to believe that she actually was right in that belief.

[empty bloom]

How.

What about it is completely necessary.

[royal relic]

there's a reason why physical education is actually an important part of a child's growth, why most athletes today that competes at the highest level trained since childhood, so their bodies are subjected to the appropriate forces, their instincts and reflexes are adjusted and sharpened to appropriate stimulus, so they grow in such a way to be more optimized for their sport

[empty bloom]

Was it the flash clones? The bone grafts? Whatever step apparently removed skin?

[royal relic]

these are natural way of doing "augmentations" we can do right now

[empty bloom]

Unnecessary.

[royal relic]

absolutely necessary

[empty bloom]

No. It's not. Not to anyone who's actually met the pre-book deal Seal types.

People who have a natural inclination and drive do not need to be stolen from their beds and forced into that life.

It's a pretty little lie Halsey told herself to justify her actions.

[royal relic]

yes, but Spartans are not natural augmentation

[empty bloom]

Oh, I thought they just kinda naturally grew the ceramic like bone spurs.

[ruby canopy]

I wouldn’t say it’s necessary. But people who are physically active when young have a much better chance at succeeding in special forces

[empty bloom]

Oh wait, no I didn't think that, because I know what the damn augs are.

[ruby canopy]

A lot of special forces guys were heavily into sports in their younger years

[empty bloom]

Those people also tend to become special forces, amusingly.

[royal relic]

not at the levels Spartans can be

[empty bloom]

Convenient Halseyesque excuses.

Honestly, the narrative would be better of if Vaz or Palmer ventilated her skull like they planned to.

Then her degeneracy would die with her.

[empty bloom]

Half the problem with thinking this way is that the aggressive bottleneck stymies progress and development in terms of branching out. It's unnecessary to kidnap and force children into that life because you are choking your end goals into a tight bottleneck. The more open platform, the more opportunities to learn.