lore-and-universe

[tribal trench]

thats not what im saying

[orchid kettle]

But, like, that has to be the case

because otherwise Jiralhanae society pre-Immolation just cant be lost technology

[tribal trench]

"dumb" people far outnumber the smart

[orchid kettle]

its just too recent

[tribal trench]

Not to call any particular group "dumb", but just as a generalization related to education:

there are about 42k scientists employed in the united states across all fields. there are about 63k garbage men.

the amount of people that you'll find performing the menial tasks that don't require knowledge of how a radio works or whatever the hell you have in mind will far outnumber the amount of people that do

[orchid kettle]

But you don't even need to have everybody know how a radio works

all it takes is a couple

Especially when the technology surely still exists

Because, you know

a bomb cant destroy every last bit of technology in the planet

unless they went and made a Guardian EMP pulse

you would just find radios and weapons and whatnot

[tribal trench]

Nuclear weapons in particular really like to mess with technology due to the large EM waves they tend to release

[orchid kettle]

But the concern of nuclear armageddon doesn't have anything to do with destroying all electronics and guns

the concern is irreversibly making the planet inhospitable for life

but obviously the Immolation didn't do that because Doisac was fine

until Cortana

[tribal trench]

"fine" is probably stretching it a bit

[tribal trench]

just finding guns doesn't mean you are gonna be able to reproduce them like that

just looking at a gun doesnt make you Sam Colt or John Browning. You might understand the basic mechanics of explosive propellant going down a long metal tube but you aren't going to be able to recreate the results as nicely as before

unless you yourself were already a good engineer

[orchid kettle]

Like I said, millions if not billions of Brutes and evidently their lifestock live on Doisac

[tribal trench]

maybe they had a baby boom or something

"within living memory" could be a hundred years

[orchid kettle]

You have that though when there's food to go around!

[tribal trench]

we've seen almost 10 billion people born within that time here on earth

[orchid kettle]

Because there's billions of people banging

[tribal trench]

there were only 76 million in 1900

which is... wow, really crazy low

they also have potentially dozens if not hundreds of other planets to help with pop replacement, not to mention covenant intervention

[orchid kettle]

uh, no lol

[tribal trench]

OH WAIT

thats US number

im

mildly dumb

[orchid kettle]

yeah lol

[tribal trench]

i didnt reaaaad

lol

god dammit why is google so useless nowadays

I literally googled "how many people lived in the world in 1900" and it still gave me just US Census numbers

[ruby canopy]

I think environment as much as genetics is a factor in whether people become a scientist or a garbage man

[orchid kettle]

I got 2 billion from google myself

[tribal trench]

doesnt matter what device im on or if im signed in or not, google is continuously getting less and less usable

[ruby canopy]

In an environment that would require people to rebuild to such a scope would have people to fill those roles pretty soon imo

[empty bloom]

Additional note; High skill labor such as engineers would have a disproportionately high casualty rate.

[tribal trench]

oh yeah cause they'd be targeted

of course

[empty bloom]

High skill fields have a higher chance of being urban dwellers, and major population centers would be the first to go in nuclear proliferation, as would political leadership, military leadership, and significant production centers.

[tribal trench]

assuming that Doisac has the same social class systems as humanity and not something more akin to 40K Orcs

[empty bloom]

Eh, even for Orks, nuking a major settlement would still hobble their engineering capability.

Orks don't get a free ride to survive hits like that just because they are functionally a meritocracy by blood feud.

[versed helm]

can arbiters be rehabilitated

also any idea why in the german version of ce the spnkr is called bazooka

[unique rune]

Dying in battle is generally how Arbiters are “rehabilitated”

The point is that there is no redemption for whatever they’ve done outside of sacrificing themselves to the cause

[unique rune]

Meanwhile I imagine the bazooka thing is just because people still often call any shoulder-fired infantry rocket launcher a bazooka

[plain lagoon]

Been thinking, do Spartan 4s get paid

Is being a Spartan a good source of income

[gilded mason]

They get paid, yeah.

Probably a good amount, but I'm unsure if the exact amount was said. Could be wrong

[plain lagoon]

Since they weren’t kidnapped or joined to be disposable

[gilded mason]

SIIs and SIIIs are paid as well

[plain lagoon]

Guessing like hR when you get paid credits

Hm

[grizzled lotus]

sorry didn't see this but thanks

[plain lagoon]

Did jun survive the explosion of the Spartan training base

Or is he dead?

[carmine sleet]

Unknown but I would assume that given how he managed to get off Reach, he's probably fine and the details of his survival are gonna be covered in black ink

Again

[grizzled lotus]

hey just like sergeant major

[empty bloom]

I mean, not literally the same. You'd get paid a fixed salary, like the real military.

And you certainly wouldn't have to personally buy your own armor.

[versed helm]

i still think its funny a Grunt is the reason for the human-covi war starting, once i found that out i now kill grunts without hesitation

[plain lagoon]

I know

It’s assigned

[pallid knoll]

he survives long enough to recruit some of the Spartan IV’s

[wanton notch]

Yes, he survived per Lone Wolves Intel #6

[lean hamlet]

Could a Spartan 3 wear Spartan 2 armor?

[torpid night]

I would also like to know

[dusty ferry]

there is no known meaningful difference between an SII, SIII, or SIV in terms of mjolnir usage

[torpid night]

From what i just looked up they could, but do the time frame and the cost of the older armor they were often given SPI or cheaper versions of mjolnir.

[lean hamlet]

Oh ok interesting

In halo Infinite we have Mark 7 armor on our Spartans. Is all the Spartans, Spartan 4s or mix of older gen Spartans lore wise?

[torpid night]

Mix with older models getting upgrades

Yet again, i think. Not the best source of information

[dusty ferry]

its this, and some other newish armor systems like osteo

along with mark VII

[stoic hamlet]

Yes.

[lean hamlet]

Thanks

[carmine sleet]

So the emblem for August confirms she's the team leader for Omega Team, that's neat

[carmine sleet]

Also would it be right to assume that the armour from the bundles is their canon appearance?

[stoic hamlet]

We know they upgraded to Mark VI at some point, so probably not 1:1.

It might have been their appearance during the HCW, though.

[carmine sleet]

Roger that

Their Mark VI gear is the Breach armour from H2A, right?

[stoic hamlet]

Yes.

[carmine sleet]

Roger that

[wanton notch]

How so? I haven't taken a look yet at the desc but I'm interested

[unique rune]

Team lead, engineering genius, and fan of hypervelocity firepower.
Doesn’t say a whole lot but it’s there.

[wanton notch]

Well, that certainly proves it! lol

Thanks for that

[versed helm]

ngl i really wish the SoF update came with a Grizzly skin for the Scorpian lol

[meager pier]

These armors I’d say are their canon appearance, yes

[stoic hamlet]

There’s no reason for them to continue using Mark IV if they’ve been issued Mark VI armour.

[dusty ferry]

apparently some of mark IV's lore indicates halsey is going back there to planthe next gen of armor

so its possible those sets are like a testbed for whatever that statement actually meant

[stoic hamlet]

It’s the opposite, actually,

Existing stocks of Mark IV armor have been recovered by the UNSC and rebuilt under the direction of Dr. Halsey. These refits are not fully compatible with official GEN2 and GEN3 standards as Halsey has her own ideas about the next step for Mjolnir.

[torpid night]

What armor system are we at now? VII or VI?

[meager pier]

VII

[dusty ferry]

did you read the last part

[stoic hamlet]

Yes.

[dusty ferry]

"halsey has her own idea about the next step"

[stoic hamlet]

Yes, which doesn’t include Mark IV.

[dusty ferry]

how? shes the one who refit them

[stoic hamlet]

“Are not fully compatible … as Halsey has her own ideas about the future of MJOLNIR.”

The “as” is the important part there.

[dusty ferry]

yeah, whats stopping these sets from being a interim step between the present and this halsey idea of a next step

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, admittedly nothing, but I can’t see why she’d use Mark IV suits to do it.

[dusty ferry]

i can't either, but she's the one who directed this refit, and this is where they mention halsey having weird plans

occams razor suggests those two things are probably linked

[empty bloom]

You're kinda misreading it. It's saying she didn't finish the job of making them compatible, because she wants to pursue a different direction of MJOLNIR design than Mark IV.

Basically, doing the bare minimum.

[dusty ferry]

i guess thats also possible, but i was looking at it from how certain other sets over the years mention not being compatible due to seeking better performance here and there and whatnot

[empty bloom]

Compatability isn't relevant. Halsey did the bare minimum to bring Mark IV up to spec, which is just enough to make it workable, and left it at that. What exactly that entails is unknown but it's basically acknowledging that the Mark IV is outdated as hell compared to even Mark Vb.

[wanton notch]

Which isn't a lore surprise to anybody. I mean, they didn't even have shields originally until they were retrofitted.

[trail mountain]

Yeah i dont think the Mark 4 ever had shields

Which makes Jerome look even more tougher and Badass when you look at what he fights

[empty bloom]

It was soft retconned after Wars 1 that some IIs were testbedding shields as early as Harvest.

Including, coincidentially, Red Team.

[trail mountain]

Oh alright

[stoic hamlet]

Well, they weren’t shields in the traditional sense:

UA/SRES - The first Shield Rapid Effect System was an electromagnetic field generator intended to deflect or dissipate incoming plasma projectiles. The colossal power requirements and limited effectiveness outside lab conditions led to the project being cancelled in 2528, with existing units retooled to function as emergency power backups.

[empty bloom]

So basically the Blue Shield System from Battletech.

[empty bloom]

Are we sure that and the HW1 era shields were actually 1:1 the same thing, or is that just a matter of two seperate projects? Just seems like an off the hip guess by descriptions to me.

[wanton notch]

Originally they didn't but due to gameplay reasons (and an eventual retcon) they did

[trail mountain]

Well thanks for telling me it was retcon cause otherwise i wouldn't have known

[stoic hamlet]

Well, this basically keeps the established lore regarding Mark IV shields, that Grenadier was trialing shields in 2535 but they couldn’t get the power to work.

So, I’d say it’s the best explanation we’re gonna get.

Though they could go into it in today’s Canon Fodder.

[wanton notch]

I'm a huge MKIV nerd, and Halo Wars is unironically my favorite Halo game

Happy to talk all day about it lol

[trail mountain]

lol

I honestly dont have a favorite halo game

I enjoy all of em

[torpid night]

In my opinion the best looking out of all the Miolnir

[torpid night]

What dose the time-line of halo look like?

[orchid kettle]

messy

[empty bloom]

Messy, coated in silly goofy things.

Gotta add the emphasis on the silly and goofy.

[deep citrus]

Hi I'm a little confused-didn't the spartan 3 company start AFTER the glassing of reach?

[unique rune]

no

[deep citrus]

I thought Spartan 3's were exclusively made on Onyx

Or were the Spartans trained after Chief's training also known as Spartan III's

[carmine sleet]

IIIs were trained on Onyx

[unique rune]

Spartan-III was initiated in 2532

[carmine sleet]

But the S-III program started long before Reach fell

[deep citrus]

Huh

[empty bloom]

Reach happened in the last months of the war.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s a bit hard to state that, actually.

Pretty sure 2532 is a typo, and it was meant to say 2531.

But yeah the III’s have been a thing for decades by the time reach falls.

[deep citrus]

Ok so bigger question-were the events of Halo Reach considered canon? Always found it kinda weird that the game itself never mentions the space battle

[empty bloom]

It's murky.

But yes.

[unique rune]

They're considered canon even if you have to squint for some stuff to really make sense

Just don't think about it too hard

[carmine sleet]

It's a whole thing about how somehow they kept half the planet in the dark about a Covenant invasion and Keyes not being happy about it and it's just really messy

[empty bloom]

And then somehow not knowing about it when he came back

[deep citrus]

Huh.

[empty bloom]

What's funny is, I tend to prefer bits and pieces of Reach's story (Despite people seemingly believing I utterly detest all of it)

Mostly the month-long knock-down drag-out slog part.

Makes more sense as a fight to me.

[deep citrus]

I mean I thought the world was lost after the Spartans were glassed trying to protect the forcefield generators

Which. I'm still kinda confused about how big the forcefield is. Does it cover the planet? A city?

[empty bloom]

There were no forcefield generators.

[deep citrus]

oh

[empty bloom]

The generators existed to power the orbital Super MAC array.

[deep citrus]

Oh yeah, supermacs

[empty bloom]

Spartans also weren't originally deployed to help defend those structures, which fell on the last day(s).

Originally, it was all UNSC Army, Air Force, and Marines.

[deep citrus]

It's been a minute since I've listened to it, huh. I knew they had marine backing, and obviously all support around that, but I thought it was a "This is our only weapon we can use against the fleet and actually kill"

"So just deploy EVERYTHING we can to protect it"

[empty bloom]

Super MACs are generally the most important tool the UNSC has for defending its planetary sovereignty. It's less that the Spartans were the everything thrown to defend in that case but more that they were tasked to do a different job initially, but circumstances changed.

In terms of actual engagement usefulness, Spartans actually aren't as useful in planetary defense or offense campaigns as they are in sabotage operations with a small numbers footprint compared to ships or massed infantry with armor support.

[carmine sleet]

In other news, new canon fodder!! http://aka.ms/CoveringFire

[torpid night]

Wait, the whole story from reach to 3 was only a couple of months?

[carmine sleet]

Yes

[empty bloom]

Yep, super short. Literally the tailest of tail ends.

[meager pier]

Can't wait for Epitaph, Kelly is gonna knock it out of the park again

[carmine sleet]

As she always does

Like, I haven't got through much of Point of Light but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a good one already

[last anchor]

I hope we get a second set of Rion books. I need more Halo Firefly in the Created timeline

[carmine sleet]

Now here's a question, is this the standard colours for Spec Ops in the SOS or specific to Orim 'Kasaan's armour?

[orchid kettle]

Unfortunately I think Rion is just done

She found out what happened with her dad, she's trying to be there for her estranged mother and brother

Like, pretty much every emotional hangup she ever had has been dealt with

[blissful robin]

Alright whose the traitor who authorized Spartans to be placed under hinge-head command?

They are going to get a very special cell at Midnight

[empty bloom]

SPECWARCOM, so... The people who send people to Midnight.

Oh, and Lord Hood.

Joint ops for alliance building.

[blissful robin]

Osman can clean house of SPECWARCOM.

[empty bloom]

Because it's good to have the aliens that don't want to kill you in your corner if you aren't some cringe edgelord.

[blissful robin]

You mean the aliens responsible for trying to wipe us out?

[empty bloom]

Honestly though yeah I agree, Arbiter should've just iced Johnson and Miranda right then and there and let Truth set off the rings.

[blissful robin]

Hardly qualifies if they are working for the local elite warlords

[empty bloom]

I mean, they literally are working for the most currently unified Sangheili force.

[unique rune]

Right, so. They’re the aliens that almost wiped humanity from the galaxy. They’ve still got the capacity to get pretty close. Why in the world would you want to do something to get on their bad side?

[empty bloom]

Jul's army is in tatters and led by his son, the Banished can hardly be called unified when it comes to its elites.

[empty bloom]

Too much 40K, not enough critical thinking or political knowledge?

[blissful robin]

Not only does it fly in the face of ONI operations since the end of the war, but it is still absolutely insulting to Elite culture.

[unique rune]

what

[blissful robin]

Those hinge-heads are arrogant and proud, having Spartans solve their problems would piss them off

No one wins here

[empty bloom]

First of all, those ops got dropped in favor of breadbreaking, mostly because those ops ended up being abject failiures and too risky for the state of galactic affairs. Too much risk for the UNSC to bear and win.

[empty bloom]

Second of all, it's both established since Anvil station that both the Swords of Sanghelios and UNSC have a vested interest in learning from one another's combat methodologies-With the Arbiter himself overhauling his military to be less prideful, stubborn, and arrogant. Working more closely with UNSC forces in joint operations is specifically meant to break that habit.

One of Arbiter's closest advisors is a woman-practically unheard of. He instituted the position of combat medics. He actively takes into account his subordinate's capabilities, not species or rank.

[blissful robin]

This has nothing to do with joint operations.
These are not joint ops. These are Spartans being placed under the command of Warlords (Kaidons) for "cultural security", whatever the hell that means.

[unique rune]

The Sangheili could afford to be strict and petty about military matters under the Covenant’s structure and support. Not something they can do anymore.

[empty bloom]

That is literally the definition of a joint operation.

They are UNSC assets being put temporarily under a joint command until such a time that Fireteam Jorogumo is sequestered away for a joint operation.

[blissful robin]

Joint suggests the UNSC has any interest in maintain Elite Culture. They do not.

[empty bloom]

They literally do.

[blissful robin]

In fact, I'm sure the UEG voter rather see them exterminated

[empty bloom]

And you'd be incorrect.

[blissful robin]

Am I? The resentment runs very deep in the Human sphere

[empty bloom]

If the last Halo book you ever read was Glasslands, maybe.

[blissful robin]

So much so people are carrying out acts of terror to kill Elites

[empty bloom]

Not really.

[blissful robin]

Hunt The Truth.

[empty bloom]

Literally every Sangheili-human interaction outside of key notes of Kilo 5 and Hunt the Truth.

[blissful robin]

Sapien Sunrise

[empty bloom]

Halo 5, the current canon fodder stories, Outcasts.

[unique rune]

Sapien Sunrise is one organization

[empty bloom]

Oh, no, the terrorist group that is considered such literally by the UNSC.

Why would the UNSC consider the Sapien Sunrise terrorists if they share the alleged same political goals?

God, I'm starting to get where the idiom about horses and water came from.

[blissful robin]

Bruh, ONI and the UEG facilitated Sapien Sunrise carrying out the attack!

[empty bloom]

Bruh, ONI was operating against UEG foreign policy to do that!

[blissful robin]

They ignored the Ambassador's request for additional security

[unique rune]

That tells me that the UEG didn’t think that it was a big enough concern, not that they agree with Sapien Sunrise.

[empty bloom]

Like, I'm sorry you can't accept that, but it's literally ONI doing scummy ONI things to attempt to accomplish domination in that sphere, and it's almost entirely stopped at this point because schmoozing up to the Swords is a better long term policy for survival, owing to the mountains of tech data the two share and the shared interest of mutual benefit.

[blissful robin]

Don't be naive, ONI tells the UEG what to do, and Admiral Osman will gladly wipe the Elites off the map when the opportunity arises.

[empty bloom]

I'm sure Osman's great, great, great grandchild will relish the opportunity, whenever that is.

[blissful robin]

There is no mutual benefit for Humanity. We got our hands on raw Forerunner tech. Whatever the Elites have to offer we can figure it out on our own.

Then again, the Swords of Sangheilios are so flippen weak they have to have Spartans protect them... perhaps they are more pathetic than I realized.

[empty bloom]

"No mutual benefit"

Yeah, except for the more frequent and widespread adoption of Covenant synthetic materials, polymers, and manufacturing techniques; Access to Covenant-styled energy shielding; Access to Covenant derived plasma weaponry; Access to coverage and defense of former Covenant territory due to mutual benefit; Access to the political capital to influence things with Ex-Covenant powers in order to broker alliances and peace to delegitimatize warhawk and religious governments; Accessing and acknowledging Covenant-derived practices regarding forerunner facilities, which has incidentally proven helpful multiple times; Decades or more experience fighting the flood; And many, many more.

The primary weapon of the Mulsanne Class Frigate is literally derived from Covenant design templates. The Infinity's communication system with its Forerunner engines were directly daisy chained via Covenant-made interlinks, not human-to-Forerunner.

Multiple armors for Spartans in 5 and Infinite are explicitly mentioned as being only possible due to trade and positive interaction with Ex-Covenant Swords-of-Sanghelios forces.

[blissful robin]

The Infinity and her drives predate UNSC-Elite cooperation

[empty bloom]

But how the hell do you get new ones.

It's a lot easier when you don't have to kill a bunch of aliens and start another war to do that, I can tell you that much.

It's also a really stupid reason to start another war.

Go back to 40K. What you want ain't here.

[blissful robin]

The Forerunner drives were pulled from Trevelyan and placed on the Infinity by Doctor Halsey and Forerunner Huragoks.

[empty bloom]

And? What? That suddenly makes it so that the Infinity doesn't use the daisy chained systems?

(It doesn't, btw)

[blissful robin]

Forerunner Huragoks literally can connect the systems with ease!

[empty bloom]

Even then, it's still literally just the Infinity. That's one aspect of hundreds.

And frankly, one of the least important.

Hell, the biggest reason is mostly just "Why"? Nonsense fearmongering?

[blissful robin]

Hell, ONI has several Forerunner ones and a stolen Ex-Covenant one. They don't need Elites when they got the Engineers that did all the work.

[empty bloom]

As for this... It's not like the UNSC's in much better shoes, especially not now.

[blissful robin]

No one is in good shoes now, but no one really knows the state of the galaxy as it is left vague as hell.

[empty bloom]

And you still haven't explained what's bad about the positive interaction aside from genocidal ideations on your part.

[carmine sleet]

It's still useful to learn how tech works regardless of if you have the floaty biological supercomputers being there to fix things

[blissful robin]

Genocidal ideations? They are the ones that tried to genocide us.

[carmine sleet]

Doing another genocide back is not the answer though

[blissful robin]

That should not be forgiven.

[empty bloom]

Tried, failed, decided to be friendly and make it stop.

[blissful robin]

Some*

[empty bloom]

It literally wasn't forgiven or forgotten. It just got moved past in favor of a brighter tomorrow.

[blissful robin]

"Brighter"
We've kept them in a state of civil war for almost a decade.

[empty bloom]

Right, humans did that.

Not, y'know, the eventual schisms of a millennia-old empire with a mandatory state religion having a crack down the middle, mass butchery of leadership, and exploitation of species differences.

[blissful robin]

Where are the Elites under UNSC command, huh?
They're aren't any.

[empty bloom]

Totally not something they did to themselves.

[carmine sleet]

Tell me, JKS7117, were the Arbiter standing in the very same room as you, would you kill him?

[carmine sleet]

There's at least one who works for ONI on regular occasions

[empty bloom]

The ones sequestered to Anvil Station, the Mercenary that willingly works with ONI in Escalations, the joint task force that operated on the Ark.

[carmine sleet]

And plenty of civilians on Onyx

[empty bloom]

Ah, and the Onyx Civilians.

[blissful robin]

I mean I did all the time in Halo 2 and 3

[empty bloom]

Gross.

[carmine sleet]

Did you even beat the game or were you too blinded by your bloodlust against a fictional character and his people?

[empty bloom]

Eternal was saying a thing but stopped :<

[unique rune]

Dude’s like a pizza cutter

[empty bloom]

All edge, no point :>

[blissful robin]

Anvil Station is a training facility not a command, the Joint Task Force was for a single mission and the Elites didn't embrace any aspect of our culture, Mercenaries are mercenaries.

[blissful robin]

Bruh, of course I beat the game.

[empty bloom]

Training facilities are run by commands. Constituent trainees under a training command are effectively under joint command if they are from a foreign institution.

Still a task force, both elites mentioned explicitly were both noted in 3's heyday about being more accepting of human culture and understanding of it than the norm. This is displayed in the book.

Mercenaries are mercenaries-still embracing our culture and under our command.

[blissful robin]

As for the Research Station on Trevelyan... idk who the hell made that decision, Parangosky would have taught Osman better.

[empty bloom]

I don't even like that book, but hey, an example's an example.

But for me it's more about Mendez not being behind bars.

[blissful robin]

Whenever exercise are conducted in foreign land by the US military, they do not always fall under joint command, especially when they are fighting each other in simulated conflict.

[empty bloom]

Distinction without a difference. Joint exercise, even operating in opfor, still functionally the same. It's being done for mutual understanding of operations and benefits.

Both sides are learning from the experience, and the specific lore wasn't all "Elites versus humans". Elites were utilizing human-developed armor in trials aboard the station, the Spartans and elites were undergoing joint training missions, et cetera.

[blissful robin]

But they aren't operating under UNSC command for the express purpose of achieving Humanity's national security objectives

[empty bloom]

I mean, I'd say training to operate alongside Spartan supersoldiers in order to have a mutually improved understanding of joint operations and procedures is a pretty significant factor in contributing to humanity's Natsec.

[blissful robin]

As to figure out how to best kill them, sure.

[empty bloom]

God, you are almost comical with this.

To the point of where I'm starting to wonder if you aren't taking this seriously at all.

[blissful robin]

My point stands. There is only ONE Elite Special Forces unit in the SoS, and they are regulated to Anvil Station, not acting in any way that furthers UEG National Security Objectives directly.
Meanwhile, the UNSC has multiple Special Forces units acting on the behalf of foreign powers, for their expressed interests. The UNSC has saved the Arbiter from defeat TWICE, both times to prevent the premature end of the Elite Civil War, and one of those times was by Spartan Intervention.

[dusty ferry]

there were literally swords forces on the infinity during the zeta halo incident

[blissful robin]

Rightly or wrongly, Halo lore post Halo 3 has made the Arbiter out to be a terrible military leader incapable of leading his people without Human help.

[blissful robin]

I have not seen evidence of that.

[dusty ferry]

let me get it

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-trial-of-reckoning

This literally has a member of the swords fighting in the house of reckoning

on zeta halo

[blissful robin]

Fair, but at that point my guess it was Lasky's decision.

Because in Halo 5, Lasky makes a point to tell Locke they can't help him if things go south on Sangheilios because "civil war"

Which is to say, Lasky doesn't have the authority to, because obviously the UNSC has already intervened before.

But by the time of Zeta Halo and Infinite, there really isn't a HIGHCOM to get angry with Lasky.

[blissful robin]

As for the "Doc," no clue if he is SoS or something else, but it does state a "cohort" was on the Infinity.

And look, a lot of the hard work has already been done.
Cortana took out Doisac, Gray Team eliminated Glyke.

I'm sure a bunch of the rogue Created AI, now leaderless, will finish the job. Hell if we are lucky, they'll take care of the traitors on Venezia and Gao too!

[blissful robin]

I will forgive the TV show of all its sins if Humanity blows up Sangheilios with a NOVA Bomb

But that invites another train of thought.
The NOVA Bomb is the absolute best weapon the UNSC has. They build up a strategic deterrent of them, arm Prowlers with them, and forever have peace from high intensity conflict.
Or, because they'll be the only ones will planet destroying capabilities, simply strike first and win all future wars.

[carmine sleet]

What a waste it would be to destroy a planet

[blissful robin]

There are many, many planets in the Galaxy

[carmine sleet]

And it's still a waste to blow one up

[blissful robin]

Tell that to the Covenant

[unique rune]

I mean they didn’t blow any planets up

[blissful robin]

"Technically"
Let me fit the quote in

[unique rune]

Glassing makes a planet uninhabitable but with enough time and effort it’s still salvageable. What’re you gonna do after you blow one to smithreens, resettle the asteroid field?

[blissful robin]

I mean tbf Humans did do that...

But I digress.
We weren't going to resettle former Covenant planets anyway.

[dusty ferry]

why not? its good real estate

[blissful robin]

Bruh, there is plenty of real estate.
It's SPACE

[dusty ferry]

yeah, but its close enough to not take 30 years to get to

[blissful robin]

With enhanced post war drives that really isn't an issue.

[carmine sleet]

Let me guess, you think the idea of a planet settled by Covenant is a defilement of its resources because it wasn't humanity that settled on it first?

[blissful robin]

And we are still focused on rebuilding what we lost

[carmine sleet]

Better to forge bonds with former enemies than it is to attempt another war

[dusty ferry]

you can also just wait for them to kill each other

that seems to be working pretty good

[blissful robin]

Yeah the constant civil war is working still.

[blissful robin]

No. The resources are fine but like, it's space my dude. There are so many other planetary bodies Humanity can take.

[carmine sleet]

You say that like every system has multiple planets that are habitable

[blissful robin]

Every system could have a terraformable planet

[unique rune]

Resettling a former Covenant planet takes a lot of work out of setting things up. Unless it was an Unggoy colony or something

[last anchor]

And the inharent combativness intrinsic to a species that was basically THE military for the Covenant...until the Brutes showed up anyway.

[last anchor]

Terraforming is not easy. It takes time, resources, and can fail.

Its not a "ah this planet cant be lieved on, LETS FIX THAT"
(Unless your the Forerunners)

[blissful robin]

A large part of the Dispora of Human Colonization involved different levels of terraforming.
Humanity did terraform Mars before achieving Slipspace travel too!

[last anchor]

Presumably not an instantanious event.

[blissful robin]

Humanity's primary focus will be to rebuild the lost colonies via terraforming, which will take probably as long as the Dispora took originally.

By then, we'd probably will have consumed enough Forerunner tech that reaching beyond is easy

[last anchor]

Considering that the Created couldnt figure out how to turn on the geoengines on Oasis until Cortana showed them, somehow I doubt that.

Meridians a giant glass mining operations for example.
Reach, which isnt entirely glassed, still has a ways to go.

Its not as simple as dropping a machine onto the planet and making it habitable.

[blissful robin]

Reach is back up to full health before the turn of the century

[blissful robin]

I mean, if you get Forerunner tech it is

Now even destroyed planets can be mined for resources.
In fact in some ways, a destroyed planet is easier to mine.

For one, gravity is much less of a concern, so one doesn't need to worry about building space elevators or mass drivers to get resources from the surface to orbit.

[empty bloom]

There's literally several Elite special forces units and command units. Not all work for the Swords, some do, but the line is strangely and often crudely drawn. As for "Not acting in any ways that furthers UEG NatSec", you just saying that doesn't make it true; Active cooperation with coalition partners is an boon and a major point of maintaining military alliances. Your paranoia, and yes, it is literally, demonstrateably paranoia about a fictional species, does not factor in.

The UNSC and Swords operate jointly in the aptly named Joint Occupation zone, with UNSC forces operating on Swords vessels and vice-versa. Of the two preeminent forces, two units stand out; The Lookout, explicitly mentioned to have a split crew in the express interest of soothing relations in the Joint Occupation Zone, starting with a Sangheili crew but eventually adopting non-UEG-affiliated crew members. This ship had an explicit mandate by the Swords to facilitate survivors of both sides.

The latter is Spartan Gray Team, who explicitly operate aboard a UNSC-led-and-maintained Prowler under UNSC command mandates with Sword special forces operating under them. This goes double, as mentioned before, with the 24 operatives under UNSC command aboard the Infinity.

[obsidian thistle]

As a fun note! We might have gotten a semi-decent way to explain why the UNSC Forward Unto Dawn had prototype BR85HB's 🙂

[empty bloom]

Also, the entire point of UNSC-Swords joint operations in the joint occupation zone is literally to neutralize and detain Forerunner and non-Forerunner threats that are causing issues in former and current contested space, leveraging mutual knowledge of the problems inherent with both cultures.

[obsidian thistle]

Turns out the map Illusion has scematics to it.

And if we tie that to another part of the map

We get the date 13 February 2549

So assuming this local was "that" abandoned.

The BR85HB existed as scematics around that point

Leading to... the weird Halo 4 Battle Rifle making sense on the UNSC Forward Unto Dawn

[empty bloom]

Odd.

That schematic is also on Oasis, isn't it?

[empty bloom]

I mean, I get I'm responding to someone who is basically LARPing, but come on.

[empty bloom]

Oh BTW, CIA, has anything ever came out about what the hell a Jiralhanae "Forgeship" is? Specifically, the one Locke was part of a task force regarding during Op Mad Hatter?

https://www.halopedia.org/Boundless_Artifice

[obsidian thistle]

Nope

Nothing on my records say that was ever expanded upon

[blissful robin]

The Joint Occupation Zones exist because Humans love to colonize planets. These planets are those that have Humans and some other species.
This can be compared to the joint military occupation of the San Juan Islands by the US and Great Britain until diplomats figured out who actually owned the island.
Since these JOZs are hotbeds of conflict and are typically quite far from the still rebuilding UNSC navy, it is far less resource intensive to make aliens do the heavily lifting until the UNSC can respond.
This is exactly what the UNSC did during the Dispora, giving its duties in the Outer and Inner Colonies to the CAA/CMA before gradually expanding into those areas as their own resouces grew.

I only saw 1 Elite spec ops for the SoS, and the SoS is the only Elite faction I know of that works with Humanity.

Of the named ones

And the SoS units on the Infinity did not appear on the ship until post Halo 5, where the UNSC as a centralized body doesn't exist no more.

[empty bloom]

The Mercenary mentioned earlier was freelance, so there's one. Swords are the primary group but it's a group of groups with different goals, being a coalition of seperate keeps who operate under Thel's leadership.

[royal relic]

Also, keep in mind special forces units have different nature in how they conduct their ops, something like Delta Force is less likely to be attached to foreign units cooperation, that’s what Green Berets are for. It’s possible SoS conducts itself similarly and the only allied special forces elites we see are from one such unit

[empty bloom]

That'd check out, actually.

[blissful robin]

Okay, but I don't think the US Government would allow the Green Berets to be under the command of the Afghanistan Government.

Alas that is getting borderline political, so let's avoid the comparison

[empty bloom]

Bit of a mountain of difference between Afghanistan, and the Swords.

So yes, because it's both a faulty and bad faith comparison and political, yes, best to drop it.

[blissful robin]

I wouldn't say faulty and bad faith. There are very many trust issues present in both to maintain the argument.

But focusing solely on the UNSC

They still tried killing us, so why should we fight their battles for them.

[empty bloom]

God, you really are a 40K fan.

[blissful robin]

This has nothing to do with 40k, and I am not familiar enough with 40k lore to consider myself a fan.

[empty bloom]

Really? Because that's literal "The Imperium is actually the good guys, for real!" appraisal.

[blissful robin]

What does not fighting other people's battles have to do with the Imperium?

From my limited understanding, the Imperium would get involved to kill everyone else involved.

The UNSC wouldn't get involved at all in such a direct way, with Spartans on permanent deployment.

[empty bloom]

Yeah, which is dumb, which is why wanting to still wipe out the elites, especially the ones who are actively engaging in trying to stay allies with you, is stupid.

"Why should the UNSC bleed for the Sangheili?"

Well, firstly, the Sangheili are literally the reason the UNSC still has blood to bleed by the end of the war.

Secondly, they're bleeding together for mutual gain by these joint ops.

[blissful robin]

Need I remind you of the casualties sustained BY THEIR HANDS

We owe them nothing

[blissful robin]

Again, in the particular instances of the Spartans permanently deployed to follow orders of local hingehead warlords, the only person benefiting is the Warlord, and the Arbiter by extension.

[empty bloom]

Cool, let me tell you about the problems with looking at it this black and white again.

[blissful robin]

The Elites caused a significant amount of bleeding in the first place. There is no prize for them stopping their genocide besides a deferment of justice for their crimes.

[empty bloom]

See, that's part of the problem, you're viewing it as a 'prize'.

Which, beyond being sick, is also hilariously black and white.

[blissful robin]

Had there not been an Elite Civil War, started by ONI, the Elites would have been the second largest power in the Galaxy and a threat to UEG interests, especially so early on in the post war with both sides so distrusting of one another.
The weakened state of the Arbiter's forces, caused by the Civil War, is the only reason there is a peaceful faction of Elites towards the UNSC.

[empty bloom]

Civil War would've happened without ONI. Xytan was part of the reason that ensured it.

[blissful robin]

Because the Arbiter would have lost the fight without the UNSC, and there would be a single, Human hating, unified Elite Empire.

[empty bloom]

Eh. Jul only got away to start his little empire because of ONI's meddling.

Ditto with ONI actively feeding that fire.

[blissful robin]

No, Tel'cam would have rised up regardless of ONI meddling.

ONI only sped things along

[empty bloom]

By actively helping Telcam. Right. That means ONI's conscience is clear in almost ensuring the wrong power came to, well, power.

By uh... Spurring it along.

Nice gymnastics routine there.

[blissful robin]

The Infinity's intervention, by ONI's authorization, saved the Arbiter from defeat.

[empty bloom]

So ONI here is the good guy, for causing the majority of the problem?

[gilded mason]

ONI caused the need for it in the first place

[empty bloom]

That doesn't make any sense at all, lmao. That just sounds like they solved a problem they caused.

[blissful robin]

Tel'cam would have started the Civil War regardless!

[empty bloom]

So?

[gilded mason]

He couldn't, by his own admission.

He had no weapons or wider support before ONI

[empty bloom]

We already knew there were going to be civil wars, even without Telcam. Xytan literally exists in proof of this. It's a species of individuals, not a hivemind.

[gilded mason]

Without ONI, it'd take longer for things to come to a head, and with the Arbiter in a better place

[empty bloom]

Arbiter's got a hell of a lot of cred to his name with Xytan out of the way, as well, meaning he would've also been in the strongest political position. IE also the guy you want in power.

[blissful robin]

It was the Arbiter's relationship with Humanity that nearly doomed him.
In fact, given the Arbiter's near defeat caused by him allowing Humans onto Sangheilios, it is safe to say the majority of Kaidons at the time disagreed with the Arbiter's stance in regards to Humanity.

Whether those perceptions would have changed is unknown, as it would be a massive propaganda fight between the Arbiter and opposing factions.

Which would, again, result in Civil War.

[empty bloom]

Yeah, which is exactly why you should reunify the Sangheili by trying to capitalize on that.

I'm sure that couldn't possibly backfire.

[blissful robin]

The outcomes are, in the end, the same. Jul Mdama still joins Tel'cam, the Civil War is sparked, and the fires of civil war burned uncontrolled.

But in our timeline, with some set backs, ONI still generally controls the outcome of the Civil War.

[empty bloom]

Yeah but they didn't wipe out the Sangheili!

Genocide's what's wanted, clearly.

It's what's warranted!

There's nothing to be gained, nothing!

[blissful robin]

So that it remains favorable to the UEG, until a time where the threat must be removed entirely.

[empty bloom]

Yeah, if you're a lunatic.

[blissful robin]

Pragmatic, like Parangosky.

[empty bloom]

Personally, I'd rather not follow in the footsteps of organizations like Parangosky.

[blissful robin]

It does not matter their intentions, only their capabilities.

[empty bloom]

Because I'd rather not be a sick and twisted wretch with a disgusting and paranoid agenda.

That actively threatens the stability of my organization and alliances more than it helps.

That actively works against my superior.

That actively promotes the causus belli of my detractors.

[blissful robin]

ONI has successfully ensured Humanity's survival and eventual superiority for four decades

[empty bloom]

Not really.

They almost got it wiped out by flood, their most significant HCW plan wouldn't have helped.

[blissful robin]

Their most significant plan was the Spartan II Program. The Spartan IIs won the war.

[empty bloom]

Lmao

[gilded mason]

lol

[empty bloom]

Lmao

He actually thinks the IIs were the deciding factor?

[blissful robin]

You don't?

It was the stubborn resistance of Humanity, especially the IIs, that made the Elites doubt their allegience to the Covenant.

If the Master Chief had not destroyed Halo, the Arbiter would have never been redeemed

[royal relic]

Yes let’s forget the hundreds of IIIs

[blissful robin]

The death of the Prophet of Regret gave way for the political destabilization of the Covenant by Truth

[plush compass]

Spartan 3? No such program has ever existed, I don’t know what you mean?!?

[gilded mason]

Truth had already started it before Regret died

[royal relic]

I meant IVs, sorry

[empty bloom]

Let's see, the hundreds of IIIs, the thousands upon millions of UNSC Naval personnel, the thousands upon billions of UNSC personnel in general, et cetera. Didn't matter.

[blissful robin]

Truth had wanted Regret to die, why do you think he let him mossy his way to Earth with his punny fleet?

[empty bloom]

I hear the Spartans built the entirety of the UNSC Navy by hand, actually.

[blissful robin]

I did not say that at all.

[empty bloom]

Oh, but you know, the IIs were built to fight the Covenant. That was the plan, right?

[blissful robin]

That is a complete and utter misinterpretation of what I said.

[plush compass]

Spartan 3? There never were any spartan threes! Surely oni would have told people if there was!

[empty bloom]

I mean, you interpret war games and joint ops as just finding the best place to put a knife, so I guess I'm not the only one with that problem.

[blissful robin]

Alright, if you can explain how the UNSC wins the HCW without the Spartan IIs, without NOVA Bomb Spam, and not missing the key turning points of the conflict, I'll give it to you.

[plush compass]

Only reason oni wouldn’t have told everyone of the three’s existence is if they were like, mentally unstable vengeful orphans of war who were turned into suicide soldiers, but why would oni do that?

[blissful robin]

Yes, let's tell the public that we are so desperate that we are training orphans in to suicide supersoldiers. That will raise morale!

[empty bloom]

Oh, no, I never said the UNSC was ever going to win. It's pure luck that they survived. I wouldn't say "won" because it's a lot like winning a boxing match after getting reduced to a charred, limbless stump.

Sure, you 'won' the fight. But that's more because the other guy had a brain anuerysm because of how utterly savagely he was beating you.

[royal relic]

Also, late to this, but Green Berets who are deployed in the first hours after 9/11 does work under the command of the Afghan war tribes that allied with US govt.

[blissful robin]

Humanity would have never survived the fight without the Spartan IIs

[gilded mason]

"Whoops, I pissed off the people who were actually fighting my war."

[empty bloom]

And without Chief, specifically, getting lucky, it would've died too.

[plush compass]

Yeah, the Unsc would have never be able to win the war on their own. Only way they coulda won is if the covenant had a schism like they ended up actually doing, or if they joined the banished or just fled the galaxy

[empty bloom]

Not the IIs in general, just Chief. Only him. Guy had the insane luck to be in the right place at the wrong time. If the IIs in general had all worked together, I'd concede, but I'm not going to consider the IIs the deciding factor if an in-universe statistical anomaly is why it happened.

[blissful robin]

Bruh, sometimes victory is slowly based on luck. Look at Caeser. Guy would get himself into the worst situations, and somehow, someway, win.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, even with Chief not being present, good odds on the ring still being a lost cause and dead zone.

[empty bloom]

Cool, so you admit it wasn't any inherent property of the IIs, but sheer, dumb luck.

Literally a statistical anomaly that shouldn't have actually happened.

[royal relic]

It wouldn’t change since Chips Dubbo is still there, no?

[blissful robin]

I literally pointed out a historical figure with luck that won the day

[empty bloom]

And I literally pointed out why that doesn't prove that the IIs were as instrumental as you're saying they were.

[blissful robin]

It shows it is possible that a individual, such as the Master Chief, can have the skillset and luck to carry the day

[empty bloom]

They weren't turning back fleets, they weren't pushing back armies. Billions were dead. It was the results of a single man getting lucky with a grenade, a job you could task a toddler with.

[royal relic]

Okay, maybe not a toddler

[empty bloom]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[royal relic]

But yeah

[empty bloom]

Exaggeration's been the norm in this convo, if you hadn't noticed.

[royal relic]

I noticed, it’s just I doubt a toddler can have enough throwing force to get lucky with a grenade, just sayin XD

[blissful robin]

From the stated points in lore, the Spartan's and their reguard actions saved countless lives.

In fact UNSC efforts besides that of Admiral Cole and the Spartans are hardly, if at all, documented in lore

With Admiral Cole being the only other badass, but he jumped ship in the 2540s

[empty bloom]

Eh. Considering the story typically revolves around the lamest parts of the HCW, that's hardly surprising.

[blissful robin]

okay I am surprised the bot didn't yell at me for that word but whatever

[empty bloom]

It's just not fun to hear about the sacrifices of the people who ensured that the Spartans didn't just have a glassing beam land on their air-conditioned cushy armor on their way to the DZ.

[plush compass]

Humanity probably would’ve been crushed even with the Chief’s survival and luck if it weren’t for the true hero of halo, Kwassass

[empty bloom]

Unironically, yes.

[blissful robin]

Nah I give that kill to Whitcomb

He has the second highest kill count of any Human

[plush compass]

Yeah I guess so

[blissful robin]

The first goes to Gray Team!

[plush compass]

If Kwassass didn’t activate the bomb, another grunt or engineer probably would’ve sooner or later

[empty bloom]

Xytan was hellbent on wiping humanity, so yeah.

[blissful robin]

I think that was just conveniently written in to eliminate the primary Human hating elites that would oppose the Arbiter

[empty bloom]

Yet another reason that the Spartan IIs didn't matter as much as people pretended they did. Covenant really did just have a heart attack because of how savagely they were caving in humanity's skull.

[blissful robin]

*How stubborn Humanity is

[empty bloom]

Nah.

[blissful robin]

Bruh, ONI, the UNSC, heck all of Humanity BELIEVE the Spartan IIs are what won the war.

[empty bloom]

So?

Most people thought Earth was flat at one point.

[plush compass]

Yeah that part always seemed a bit lame, to set up Xytan as like the best commander in the covenant but then have him killed before he got to do anything

[blissful robin]

That's argument fallacy.

The UNSC, in lore, based on their own AARs and reviews, do conclude that Humanity would have lost without the Spartans.

[plush compass]

But I suppose that if Xytans fleet wasn’t destroyed right then and there humanity never woulda had a chance

[blissful robin]

But there in lies the problem. You remove any piece of the puzzle, be it Cole or the Spartans or Keyes, it all falls apart.

[empty bloom]

Then the UNSC's stupid as hell, lmao

Because they would have lost with or without

[blissful robin]

Bruh, they have more information because you don't exist in their universe

[empty bloom]

Like, I don't know why you keep acting like I think that humanity would've won if the IIs weren't involved.

I openly stated, several times at this point, that I don't think they would've won.

[blissful robin]

You said they weren't the deciding factor, yet, they are

[empty bloom]

Because they literally weren't the deciding factor for the majority of the time.

[blissful robin]

They are the ones who scored the touchdown

[empty bloom]

Yeah, cause screw everyone and everything else that made that possible.

Glory hounds suck.

[plush compass]

It’s probably that Oni And the UNSC want to attribute their victory to the Spartans because it would be an extremely bad look for them to know that humanity was literally weeks away from capitulation if it weren’t for such absurd amounts of luck and coincidence

[blissful robin]

Yes, they are supported by a team that builds them up, but they are still the touchdown player

[empty bloom]

That as well tbh.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, that's such a hilariously narrow view of how things work.

[blissful robin]

I mean a lot of that is ONI/UNSC internal docs, not public propaganda.

[empty bloom]

Incredibly inaccurate, forest for the tree type stuff.

[plush compass]

The heroic overhype of the Spartans and the knowlege that those Spartans could be used as enforcers was probably the only reason why some colonies didn’t just cut ties to the unsc completely, but some colonies probably did leave a few times regardless idk

[unique rune]

good lord how long have y’all been going on about this

[blissful robin]

By the time the Spartans appeared in propaganda, the Covenant threat was well known, and it is known that trying to seperate and cut a deal with the Covies wouldn't work.

[empty bloom]

I mean, as long as it takes to get boring, which for me is about now.

[steel stone]

I remember reading somewhere I think it was Halopedia said the reason the Spartans IIIs were made because the Spartan IIs were dying alot in the war, that is a scary thought. I looked at one of the comic book pictures online that backed this up by showing bunch of IIs getting overrun by armies of Elites and jackals, think I saw a grunt too

[empty bloom]

From what's known and seen it's mostly mutual understanding of the Covenant's threat more than the Spartans.

Because, y'know, giant alien armies trying to kill everyone is a bit more realistic a motivator than supersoldiers.

[blissful robin]

Only a few IIs died in the war prior to Reach's fall, but the problem is still that there was very few to begin with. The program started with 75, about half them survived past augmentations.

Imagine the landside it would be if there were 300 Spartan IIs

[empty bloom]

More dying to air crashes and bad luck. Wow.

[blissful robin]

Can someone get this man a flight to Sangheilios? His people are calling.

[empty bloom]

IIs were dying, and it was a case of diminishing returns. IIIs existed to do ops IIs couldn't, replacing losses and increasing the operational scope of Spartans.

By the end of the war, IIs were being deployed in less and less dangerous operations with more cautious operating parameters.

[unique rune]

I think Halo 3's god awful writing somehow is the most informative thing about where humanity was at with the war. Like even with the Spartan-IIs around and John Halo doing his big shiny luck thing, the Covenant still made it to Earth while at war with itself and nearly managed to kill everyone with Halo. Meanwhile the Flood probably would've had a good chance at winning if it invested a bit more in taking over Earth before jumping to the Ark instead of seemingly just... ignoring Earth altogether for whatever non-reason.

[steel stone]

Spartan II I think are the only class to have this slow mo thing called Spartan time, if the IIIs had that think they all would have survived more I dunno

[empty bloom]

I don't actually like elites or how cushy the Swords have it post war regarding human-Sangheili relations.

I just don't agree with genocidal ideation.

[blissful robin]

Fair

[blissful robin]

Plot.
Plot.

We can argue the Gravemind's stupidity or decision making another time

Or, right now

[empty bloom]

I mean, the first part was already pretty much there due to 2. Chief wasn't even present for the second ringfiring risk.

[unique rune]

"Plot" or not, that's literally what canonically happened.

[empty bloom]

That was all Arbiter.

[blissful robin]

I mean, logically speaking, if the Gravemind controlled the Ark, he could consume the galaxy at his leisure.

[unique rune]

The Spartans made a miniscule dent in the Covenant War and just delayed the inevitable at best

[empty bloom]

I'd say Johnson, but... That guy always misses his beam rifle shots, so I just bring my own.

[steel stone]

Halo 3 was too awesome, I really liked the whole chief was the last Spartan, made the story more desperate. Only game I wish could of been more was Halo Reach

[empty bloom]

I... Really hated that.

[blissful robin]

So why spend any resources on taking Earth now, rather than taking all those resources of the Flood to the Ark to best ensure victory, and then come back to Earth later.

[empty bloom]

I hate the whole 'last supersoldier' trope. Like, literally due to the "If X is so good, why isn't there an X2?" type jokes. Because that's not actually a joke for things like that.

[blissful robin]

I liked that in Halo 5 there was Blue Team.

I missed them in Infinite

[unique rune]

I mostly just don't like Halo 3 in general

[steel stone]

Maybe the flood knew that the ark was gonna wipe out all their food, maybe going to the Ark was the best choice attacking it there first, they really rammed poor High Charity in there

[blissful robin]

Oh the Gravemind KNEW that. He still remembers the war with the Forerunners in detail

[steel stone]

Halo 1 showed there was another Spartan still around, made me wonder is chief really the last one? I see where your coming from but it made me really curious and wanting to know more

[blissful robin]

The Halo 3 slander saddens me

[unique rune]

Halo 3's campaign is bad and it should feel bad

[blissful robin]

There wasn't really any last spartan tropes besides the title of a music piece, the rest of the Spartans just went conveniently unmentioned.

And yes, the CE description

[steel stone]

I think Halo 3 was the best story and gameplay, wish it was more though I dunno, first time I have ever seen anyone actually dislike it

[blissful robin]

But at the time, Chief believed he was the last Spartan

[plush compass]

Halo 3’s campaign is supposed to be cinematic and climactic, though it’s not always well written

[steel stone]

I dont know what you mean by music. Im talking about Linda from Halo 1s first mission the Pillar of Autumn

[empty bloom]

It's horrendously written more often than it isn't, lmao.

[unique rune]

Halo 3’s campaign just distracts people from its writing issues by blowing up a big setpiece every other mission

[empty bloom]

^

[blissful robin]

There is a Halo 2 track called "The Last Spartan"

[empty bloom]

... Actually, Call of Duty MW2 does the same thing a lot, which is pretty funny.

[plush compass]

Linda isn’t canonically the CE second player I didn’t think

[empty bloom]

Kinda seems like the big trope of the late 2000s.

[blissful robin]

And Linda's pod, in Halo CE, is marked as deceased, as technically she was dead

Bruh, next thing you people are going to tell me is the Halo TV Series is good

[plush compass]

Not yet

[steel stone]

Question about that Linda, she was shown to have been stabbed in the comics, she did die but did have surgery which she lived again

[plush compass]

I hope season 2 is better

[blissful robin]

She was stabbed in Halo the Fall of Reach, and technically died. Chief put her in a cryo tube, recovered said tube after CE, went to Reach, found Halsey, who with Modern Human medicine and intellect (magic god scientist powers) revived Linda

[empty bloom]

Compared to 3...

[steel stone]

Halo TV shows lore is so odd then again Halo lore is all over the place

[blissful robin]

The rules of this discord prevent me from saying what I want to say in response to that.

[torpid night]

3 not best but loved

[blissful robin]

Halo 3 is the best

There is no Halo game where I am more pumped up by the Marines!

[empty bloom]

I'm sure it'll find out what it's best at someday.

[torpid night]

Control scheme drops it for me

[unique rune]

The only redeeming feature about 3 for me is that I do think The Covenant is fun to play

Pretty much literally nothing else though

[steel stone]

Only things I disliked was the zoomed in view the OG 360 version had, now in MCC you change it

[blissful robin]

Ah the Covenant. Loved blowing up the Elite Phantoms before going into the final tower, and dropping my Hornet on the arbiter

[empty bloom]

Now it's my turn to say this.

[blissful robin]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-odst-exactly-gif-23888597

Bruh why don't they work

[steel stone]

Halo 3 added theatre mode and forge, tons of insanely cool maps. Added real armor customization. There is a reason why its called by many to be one of the greatest games of all time.

They brought back scarabs in a way I didnt think was possible, flood was brought back with all kinds of crazy forms

[empty bloom]

https://giphy.com/gifs/CCKoSMo1VpeGitOK6O

[unique rune]

And all those forms absolutely sucked

[empty bloom]

Gotta be a cool dude to post gifs.

[unique rune]

Tank and Stalker were complete pushovers while Ranged was just unpleasantly annoying

[steel stone]

Tank for form for me sucked, wish it was bigger like the flood juggernaut

[blissful robin]

Mods, I want to post a NOVA Bomb gif!

[steel stone]

Still the brought back the flood and added in more and that is awesome

[unique rune]

I mean of course it brought back the Flood
I don't think Halo 3 deserves any credit for that

If anything it deserves a big pile of demerits

[plush compass]

I like halo 3 and I don’t think it was awful or bad but it definitely had some bad choices and design ideas

[blissful robin]

I disagree with people dreaming for the flood to return

[steel stone]

I find the flood really easy to kill but their gore was taken to the next level with the flood, good enemy overall

[blissful robin]

Their story ended in Halo 3, bringing them back invalidates the whole ending

[steel stone]

I agree there but it made me think they wanted to do Halo 4 at some point

[plush compass]

Their current story ended in 3, but considering how many locations they already were found in, it would be pretty obvious that there are still some in captivity across the galaxy

[unique rune]

I still maintain that CE Flood were the only good Flood

and like half of that isn't even the Flood themselves
the level/environment design and weapon balancing were doing a lot of heavy lifting with an enemy type that's really bland gameplay-wise

[blissful robin]

Yes, but at no point they should be an existential threat for the Chief again.

[steel stone]

Halo 3s ending was incredible still, Halo 1 starts with chief leaving Cryo then to him going back into cryo in Halo 3. Respect for them having it end in a familiar way . The Legendary ending I think was the best in the whole series, that part where they slowly go to some weird looking planet damn....

[blissful robin]

I really am not a fan of the Flood to begin with. Yes, they are a great and unique enemy, but I hated those sections of the game. 99% of the time, there isn't any Marines around to hype me up.

[unique rune]

the ending was great because it meant I could stop playing Halo 3

[steel stone]

Halo 3 flaws for me was those cortana visions and the lack of Gravemind showing up but I cant think of much really.

[blissful robin]

I liked the Cortana visions, only because it gave us voiced quotes from lore.

"You will be the protectors of Earth and all her colonies"

Favorite line

[steel stone]

AI marine in Halo have always been terrible, I like their dialogue though but they feel pointless having in the game if they dont shoot enemies most of the time, Reach I think had it far worse

[plush compass]

My favorite halos are probably 2, odst or reach

But all those definitely have flaws still

[blissful robin]

Bruh, I had a great time with Marine AI in Halo 2 and 3. The MCC screwed it up a little, but they were great!

[steel stone]

I think every Halo games have alot of flaws but I think its really because they had to rush the games out.

[blissful robin]

The decision to have Marines follow you around in Infinite is one of the best features

[steel stone]

I had a fantastic time with the Marines in Infinite though...man having a razor back with the squad with rockets, amazing

[plush compass]

They definitely coulda improved if they had more time to make the games

[steel stone]

Halo Reach is a tough one for me...especially in campaign

[orchid kettle]

The idea in theory at least is that the marines exist just to provide the sense that a dynamic battle was unfolding before your eyes, but they couldn't actually be competent enough to steal your kills

I do enjoy Infinite marines actually being lethal tho

[plush compass]

Lazerback go zzzzzzzzzzz

[blissful robin]

Time.
Time time time.
A good plan, executed violently now, is better than a perfect next week.

[orchid kettle]

Going forward, Id like to see a Halo game that expects you to command and arm your Marine comrades competently in order to achieve victory

[steel stone]

With marines that fine but with ODSTs and Spartan AI I could not forgive how rubbish they acte...

[steel stone]

Or send out a waypoint pointing them where to go when they end up staring at a wall for no reason

[orchid kettle]

i basically want a fusion of Infinite, Reach's fireteam system, and Halo 5's commands

all wrapped into one

no reviving dead AI team mates

a marine dies, he dies, and you'll be all the weaker for it until you find a replacement

[steel stone]

Can AI Spartans actually be more smarter as well? Reach made me wonder why there are around

[plush compass]

They should bring back Chips Dubbo

[empty bloom]

So there's actually a pretty easy answer for why this is a common problem with friendly AI in video games.

[plush compass]

And make a game where he fights alongside Dimkee Hotay and Glibnub to fight Yapyap the destroyer

[steel stone]

AI teamates I found ever useful when I drive the mongoose and they in the back with a rocket, thats about for me

[empty bloom]

So, in case you didn't know, 5's fireteam AI was made by the guys behind Star Wars Republic Commando, which was praised in its day for having 'great' friendly AI, but it's misattributed.

It's actually a combination of relatively responsive and accurate friendly AI on a very level and even map built more like a shooting gallery than actually good AI. Friendly AI tends to suffer in video games because it needs to:

• Stay in line with the player in set positions
• Stay in line with enemy behavior in set positions
• Not outperform the average player, IE doing all the work
• Respond to the player's actions and whims in a believable manner
• Navigate broken terrain efficiently and effectively
• Get to the player even if broken terrain is in the way

Compare with enemy AI, which only needs to

• engage the player in specific ways
• pretend to be unaware of the player until the player breaks a 'rule'
• navigate broken terrain efficiently and effectively
• engage with the player even if broken terrain is in the way

The last two in particular are significantly easier to do when you are not being ordered by a player, or following a player, or worrying about outperforming a player.

I'm glossing over some extra steps, but in short, the reason why friendly AI tends to be worse than the player in Halo games is because it is trying to engage via a set of rules that it cannot meaningfully exceed due to the restrictions imposed upon it, while enemy AI has less restrictions and more operational freedom in how it dictates its actions.

[steel stone]

Makes me wonder if it has anything to do with what they were saying when making Reach they had to dial down the AI because of how complex the enemies got.

With how important Reach was I never felt its importance in the gameplay, think they could of dialed down the enemy AI just so my teamates feel like they are doing something

[empty bloom]

Most likely. Below the visuals, there's 'brains' that need to work, and those can be hard on a device.

It's why a lot of 4X games can really chug when computing bots.

[steel stone]

Yeah it was all on 360 as well

[empty bloom]

One of the most significant developments Reach had was making Blam support 40 active AI enemies over 20, IIRC.

So there's that.

[steel stone]

Thats the max AI in halo Reach???

[empty bloom]

According to a Bungie Interview with Game Informer back in 2010ish, yeah.

The other half was dynamic lighting improvements.

[steel stone]

Halo Infinite have 32 Max in forge

I guess me wanting 80 AI enemies to fight me is impossible

[empty bloom]

Reach doesn't have forge AI at all, and Infinite's forge does have additional considerations under the hood compared to Reach's.

[steel stone]

Thats true too

[empty bloom]

Just because you can brute force your way into making things like that work, doesn't mean they work in acceptable capacity for a company.

[steel stone]

Im curious what was everyones thoughts on Halo Reach's campaign?

I think I hate because I played it too much

How the heck is that even possible!?

[empty bloom]

Overrated, easily one of the best Halo games when it comes to atmosphere but it lacks in actual narrative.

[steel stone]

I think the story could of been more intense in terms of how bad things were getting

[empty bloom]

It makes a lot of very confusing and/or bad decisions that would have led to far more engaging narrative paths, including, yes, the intensity of the situation.

The campaign also speed demons after LNOS.

[steel stone]

Birthplace of Spartans and yet you only see 6 of them, Spartan IIIs never showed up, plot never raises stakes for me honestly

[empty bloom]

And gets weirdly involved with mainline narrative, which is kind of gratuitous, plot-hijacking, and counter-intuitive.

[empty bloom]

Uh... Spartan IIs, you mean?

[blissful robin]

Ruined Fall of Reach

Should've just followed the book

[empty bloom]

Contrary to popular belief, books rarely make good video games.

[steel stone]

Jorge is a Spartan II and yet he does not look likeone, would of been cooler to have seen him wear Mark 4 or Mark 5 to show hes different

[empty bloom]

That's not how that works.

[steel stone]

I hear so much about that and I think it would of been better to include some parts of the comic into Halo Reach

[empty bloom]

IIs don't usually get special treatment in the armor design department past a certain time. They're too few to justify the expense.

[blissful robin]

Book. It was book first, not comic

[plush compass]

It was great and super fun, really emotionally emotional and stuff, but yeah it was a big screw you to the lore

[empty bloom]

A lot of its emotions fall short due to musical direction not meshing quite right. In fact, Marty's extreme focus on throwing music everywhere actually hurts the impact of quite a few scenes in the game.

For example, the intro actually goes a lot better without music.

[blissful robin]

What

[steel stone]

Thanks Ill remember that, I looked up this online and showed me pictures of Spartans defending genrators that could been an incredible missionin Reach

[empty bloom]

Well, let's see. The part where you're wading through pools of dead civilians to get to Traxus tower is punctuated by a boppy little tactical theme. The intro screen zooming in to Noble Six's discarded helmet has audio to match, and it's more haunting to zoom in on a dead world with no orchestra, which is the point of those shots.

[steel stone]

I hate the Elite ranks in Reach in terms of colours and names, I could easily remember them in Halo 1, 2 and 3 but what the hell happen!??!

[empty bloom]

They're color coded almost identically.

[blissful robin]

I've never heard such blasphemy

Except by the TV show

[steel stone]

Elite Majors are now orange and are called officers. Gold Elites I thought were zealots and now are called generals. It messes up what the others games taught

And Ultras for some reason look like councilors and the red ones are now Zealots

What the heck is happening here?

[plush compass]

Yeah they never really stuck with any elite design

[empty bloom]

It's orange-red and they fulfill the same position. Generals are used as Zealots for most of the campaign, and fulfill the same basic role.

Ultras are white, nuff said, and Zealots are basically just supposed to denote a 'super elite' Covenant unit. Otherwise they're functionally normal zealots like what generals are.

Not to mention, you wouldn't actually be able to note the name change in gameplay.

[steel stone]

Yeah but they should of kept their iconic colours they were known for. The reason I think they did this was to expand the Elite ranks but just confuses me

[empty bloom]

I mean, with the sole exception of Officers-which were still red, just a different shade of red-they did.

Functionally, in gameplay, it's the same roles as the old colors.

[steel stone]

I like keeping consistency in covy enemy designs Reach to me just went overboard

[steel stone]

All that is good but I would of kept their original colours

At least that

[empty bloom]

For which? My dismissal of the themes or Map hating the elite ranks?

[plush compass]

They stayed sorta similar from ce to 2 with quite few changes, then they made them really big and bulky in 3, reach gave them a lot of armor redesigns and new rankings which are cool, 4 and 5…, infinites elites are a nice blend of a lot of different ones, except they’re kinda all just rehashes of existing ones, and their armor is all mostly the same with the colors and helmets being the only differences, I sorta wish infinite’s elites had more of a Banished-y feel like the elite bosses do, the other elites look straight out of the covenant, but to be fair they probably are, but yeah infinite has my favorite “normal” elite appearance

[blissful robin]

I mean, do you think care about Elite ranks? lol

[empty bloom]

Because I'll die on the hill of music being able to make or break the theming of a scene. I can play What I've done over God of War Ragnarok's ending if it helps showcase this point.

[steel stone]

I liked how the Banished added classic Elite ranks, its a whole new faction and yet it felt like I was fighting covies again

[blissful robin]

Marty is untouchable

[empty bloom]

You got that right, just not in the way you think.

[blissful robin]

Marty is sacred

[empty bloom]

Nah.

[blissful robin]

To slander Marty is to slander the core of Halo

[empty bloom]

I'd rather not have the core of Halo be a racist nutjob with an ego problem who makes overrated tracks and slots them into unneeded places.

[steel stone]

Marty knew how to do Halo music sad to see him not make it still. I can still remember so many of his tracks in the Halo games

[steel stone]

Then you might hate the whole of 343 then, so many things have come out about them over the years its crazy

[plush compass]

Yeah, I do like how the elites look and it makes sense that most of them would be wearing their “traditional” looking armor but their shiny colorful armor feels out of place at times compared to the other tarnished red banished armor

[blissful robin]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-johnny-english-arrest-him-gif-20916673

[empty bloom]

Considering how bad-faith the fanbase acts, I'm not exactly inclined to believe that.

[steel stone]

Banished should of had mainly Red and black armor. Elite minors can still be blue and majoras be red but they need more black and darker and heavier armor

[plush compass]

Marty’s made some really pretty pieces still, but I do agree that it sometimes is repetitive. I do like Gareth Coker, though, his music is awesome

[steel stone]

My question is where has Marty been shown to act that bad to people? thats a big claim to make

[plush compass]

Halo 5 also has pretty some good music

[steel stone]

I could not remember much of Halo 5, for music the trials were good

[plush compass]

And wars and wars 2 have some pretty cool songs in them as well

[steel stone]

I cant say much on Halo Wars, gameplay just isnt my thing

Action figure hands and spirit of fire were amazing

Music with Red Team defending some truck whatever was great too

Thats all I can say really about Halo Wars really

[unique rune]

I never really cared much about Marty to begin with but whenever I hear about him in recent years he just seems... pathetic.

[steel stone]

People that made Halo...man they are really apart nowdays

[unique rune]

Doesn't really help that I recall other Bungie employees saying that he was rather infamously difficult to work with

[empty bloom]

That's one of the bigger ones. Guy's been pretty mask off on Twitter for a while now.

[steel stone]

I hear that from tons of different companies how they dont get along, makes sense you have so many poeople with different ideas and visions

[empty bloom]

Music's a bit more subjective than most topics. I really don't care for like 90% of the OT's OST even if I think some it's fine.

[blissful robin]

Bruh

Do you even like Halo?

[empty bloom]

Not a fairweather fan like most people here, so... Yeah.

[unique rune]

I like the original trilogy OSTs well enough but 3's bores me because it just sorta feels like a greatest hits compilation album of the first two

[steel stone]

I think Halo Reach had more feeling in its OST more than any other in my eyes

[empty bloom]

Reach's OST is fine. It's just applied haphazardly in parts, which hurts it.

In terms of application of music when and where, most other Halos are better about it than Reach was. Hits more bad notes in bad spots.

I wouldn't still listen to it sometimes if the soundtrack was bad.

[steel stone]

I agree there they screwed up alot there. Tip of the Spear portions of music was cut out which annoys me alot. Walking away is the best version of walk in the woods and sad to see it be used in campaign. Both ways soundtrack slaps and not even used in campaign

[plush compass]

I like the music of all the halo games. Except 4, I really don’t know a single song from 4. Or the Spartan assault/strike games if you count those.

[steel stone]

I swear Both ways was going to be used for the scrapped Reach mission where you drove a scarab through the ruins of New Alexandria

[empty bloom]

Spartan Assault/Strike easily have some of the best soundtracks in the series. They did not need to go that hard for spinoffs like that.

[unique rune]

I think 4's still my personal favorite soundtrack.
The second half of To Galaxy going unused in the game was criminal

[steel stone]

Halo 4 Midnight Never Forget my second favourite Halo theme. I think its the best version of Never Forget and was annoyed it was not used in Halo 4s menu just like Halo 3s

Sacred Icon 2 Halo Legends takes the first for me

[plush compass]

I couldn’t really decide my favorite track

[steel stone]

Its hard I know XDDDD I didnt even mention amber clad, Halo 3 version walk in woods, tons of Halo Reach and 1s ]

Halo Infinite Last Spartan remix was smashy too

[steel stone]

It did remix alot of Halo 2 and 1s soundtrack which I think worked very well connecting the games together

[runic wharf]

hell naw

[blissful robin]

https://youtu.be/sGM45zTaApM?si=lokS-V5Pt0DJ72mq
This. This is beautiful

[wanton notch]

Yep same. 4's soundtrack was awful and didn't even sound like Halo save for the title theme

I really like Infinite's soundtrack for both campaign and multiplayer

[wanton notch]

Agree, HW1 soundtrack is goated

[wanton notch]

Yep, say what you want about the man himself but his music is legendary

[magic stump]

So as of CU29, is the Spirit of Fire officially back?

It's been MIA for like 38 years or so

The return of MKIV alongside (likely not canon) Leon, August, and Robert based armors has made me curious of where the update stands lore-wise

Also there's no way by this point anyone in the UNSC believes the Spirit is actually gone

Lore shows that the Infinity found a Vulture (maybe wrong) from the Spirit and it raised eyebrows a lot

Just wonder where the Spirit's status stands currently

[blissful robin]

No, they are still at the Ark.
This stuff is just multiplayer cosmetics to enjoy, not a uniting of UNSC forces.

[magic stump]

That's a shame, I'd love to see the Spirit become the new flagship or something of the likes

It'd be one tiny flagship but it's got the history to back up the title

[runic wharf]

Why do you think that?

[wanton notch]

Because it didn't sound like Halo. We had 5 games up until then that had fitting soundtracks that reused similar hooks, but 4's was completely different. Tie that in with a new company and it just seemed like a standalone game & soundtrack

[empty bloom]

I always thought it was weird that it raised eyebrows at all. One vulture being errant and unaccounted for isn't that weird considering the helter skelter state of logistical affairs, could've just been getting overhauled on Harvest when the Spirit dipped.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

[magic stump]

the Vulture was in perfect condition as if it had been recently repaired and serviced tho

that's why they were drawn to it

[empty bloom]

... What, are people in universe so stupid that they think people can't just repair Vultures unless they wear a phoenix patch?

[orchid kettle]

I honestly forget what the origin of Cutter Jr's fleet of hawks and vultures was supposed to be

[magic stump]

Vultures are super outdated

[empty bloom]

So? Everything's outdated, the VK78's outdated.

[magic stump]

Fair

Says that a ship from the NCA called Pilgrims' Pride tried to use a Vulture as a bomb when attacking the Infinity

they disarmed said bomb and found out that the Pilgrim was only built 5 years prior and possessed a Spirit of Fire Vulture

Spirit has been considered lost with all hands for somewhere between 25 to 30 years

Apparently the Pilgrim also had Anders' Sparrowhawks

[empty bloom]

Not sure where you got that from.

[magic stump]

Halopedia

[empty bloom]

Just read it, didn't say anything about Anders.

[magic stump]

Anders made the Sparrowhawks

[empty bloom]

Lmao, no she didn't.

[stoic hamlet]

The SparrowHawk isn’t like, a special vehicle. It’s just a basic UNSC craft.

Same with the Grizzly tanks.

And the Cyclops. Etc.

[magic stump]

Thought she did

must have retconned some of the HW1 lore

[stoic hamlet]

She might have made some modifications to them (forge did to the grizzlies) but the vehicles themselves are standard UNSC fare.

[magic stump]

I've got a manual from my metal case HW1 that goes over like unit descriptions and the such

there was a thing in it about Anders-spec Sparrowhawks

[empty bloom]

Sparrowhawks in general aren't actually odd to see in UNSC armories even then.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s likely a retcon. Though in truth, it’s a better one, lol

Originally from memory Forge was said to have made the grizzlies/drawn up the blueprints.

But this was changed a while back.

[magic stump]

that is true

[empty bloom]

Wars really liked some Halsey style 'this guy/gal was behind EVERYTHING with this vehicle!' type stuff. Very GI Joe.

[magic stump]

HW1 they do claim Forge had been making the Grizzlies for a while

something something project

i gotta head back to work

good talk tho

[empty bloom]

Either way, more reasonable explanations are

• stolen at Harvest

Or

• Falsified transponder codes to lead the infinity into a trap

Considering the Infinity was led to another trap, I think the latter is a pretty solid bet.

[safe pewter]

Even Mjolnir was designed by a team. Halsey was just the head of that team.

The Spartans augmentations, and selection process themselves though, that was basically all her.

[empty bloom]

Halsey being this ridiculous 'do everything' scientist always rubbed me the wrong way.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s why J liked the comment she had in Reach here she was surprised to see what Jorge had done to his armour/what Noble had done.

Here was the perfect person, watching the real world ramifications that she couldn’t control, and also showing the smart, strategic mind of her “child”… and she’s upset at it.

[empty bloom]

And people wonder why I tend to say her opinion on how 'good' something is isn't exactly one that's worth listening to.

Lady's got an ego the size of Jupiter, lmao.

[empty bloom]

That said, maybe she was just commenting on that horrid choice of yellow Jorge went with for his Vauntlock.

[stoic hamlet]

“Ugh, he used that yellow? Where did I go wrong with him?”

[empty bloom]

Halsey's lesser known degree was in art, apparently.

[latent nest]

What are some of your favorite halo lore fun facts?

[magic stump]

Jerome faced the flood with a metal chair

Granted it wasn't a lot of them but he did literally beat the flood with a chair

[carmine sleet]

Unggoy Farmer

[empty bloom]

I can't share my favorite here, so uh...

Locke was a hitman and hired assassin before he worked for ONI, who distrusted the UNSC because it was too weak to stop the Covenant from burning his homeworld.

[latent nest]

Mobile spinoff when

[carmine sleet]

I need a refresher but didn't Locke share a homeworld with someone from Noble or something?

[unique rune]

Locke and B312 were both from Jericho VII, yeah

Cue theorizing that they’re secretly brothers

[unique rune]

…That was a joke.

[carmine sleet]

The likelihood that the two characters are related biologically is highly unlikely but given their shared homeworld, it isn't impossible

[dusk jetty]

I can’t share mine 😂

My 2nd favorite is that the battle rifle replaced the DMR quite quickly in the HCW but for some reason the army kept it around for awhile

[stoic hamlet]

Johnson’s comedic hard-as-nails personality is actually a cover. He’s actually a deeply depressed cynic with massive amounts of PTSD.

[empty bloom]

Oh, another one is that Osiris' logo incorporates elements of the organizations that each member of Osiris belonged to. It incorporates the death's head of the ODSTs (Buck), the ONI symbol (Locke and Vale), the bottom resembles the army logo's bottom chevron altered to fit the ONI logo (Tanaka), and the four pointed star of the UNSC Navy (Vale)

[latent nest]

Would have never guessed 🤣

[wanton notch]

Best fact ever

[fair hazel]

Cricket bats and metal chairs

[foggy condor]

What happened to the falcon?

The only game it appears in is reach (and the halo wars games) and then we never see it again

[empty bloom]

Actually, it also appears in Halo Fireteam Raven.

[foggy condor]

I forgot about that one

But why hasn't it appeared in any other mainline games?

[royal relic]

probably due to just general lack of need for air vehicle to be depicted in Halo games

[foggy condor]

That's lame

The pelican is flyable in infinite

And 5

And 4

They could've had the falcon too

[royal relic]

Pelican in 4 is flyable in one mission only and... I have to say it's kinda rudimentary

[foggy condor]

True

Imo the halo 4 and 5 pelican is better than the og pelican

It looks alot cooler

And it's less fat

[empty bloom]

Holy hell, that's a rare opinion. A based and rare lad in these lands.

[foggy condor]

As you can see by my name im an avid D79 consumer

[royal relic]

that said, there's no mission that needs Falcon depiction in H4 that can't be filled with Pelican and presumedly Infinity doesn't carry them as it'd be a hassle considering they'd rather sit at orbit and drop things in than go in atmo

Falcon would struggle to reach Infinity back lel

same with H5, there's no mission that require Falcon like role

[foggy condor]

Couldn't they have another craft carry it

Or is it too big

[empty bloom]

Doctrinally, the Falcon's really only suitable for the UNSC Army. Simply put, it's more economical for the Army's mission than the Pelican is.

[foggy condor]

Wait so how do they get it on other planets

[royal relic]

it's just a matter of a logistical issue thing, like, considering the area to cover in Requiem and the lack of permanent basing in the planet for UNSC Army, there's just no reason to carry them

by carrying it in

[foggy condor]

With what?

[royal relic]

all kinds of things, Frigates, other smaller transport vessels like...Albatross?

[empty bloom]

Same way the US military can get helicopters overseas. Via ships or heavy airlift capable frames like the Galaxy.

[foggy condor]

Oh yeah I forgot smaller ships can enter the atmosphere

[royal relic]

it's just for Infinity's mission, they are more of a hassle than benefit

so they most likely don't carry them

the same way the US Navy didn't operate Little Birds off ships, but have medium to heavy lift assets like SeaHawks and Ospreys

[foggy condor]

Does the unsc even use the falcon anymore in the place we are in the timeline?

[empty bloom]

The UNSC Army would.

[royal relic]

yeah

[foggy condor]

Oh ok

[royal relic]

also honestly agree

though I'm more Condor person than Pelican

[empty bloom]

As long as it's not the version of the 79 that has those stupid door gun things.

The ones people are apparently supposed to ride on.

[royal relic]

it should've been remote weapons

controlled from inside

something like Osprey's defense gun system thing

[foggy condor]

Isn't that just a longer pelican?

[royal relic]

look, I like heavy lift

[foggy condor]

I think it's cool

I feel like it should've gotten bigger wings

[royal relic]

https://www.halopedia.org/images/0/07/HW2-D81models.jpg

[empty bloom]

The Condor's also got a slipspace drive. Not an extensively strong one though

[royal relic]

personally would wish to see the U81 version

but probably looks like a bigger Owl anyway so eh

[foggy condor]

What is the condor for?

What can it do that the pelican can't

[royal relic]

for heavier transport

[foggy condor]

It's sad that all the cool ships like the vulture and sparrow never appear in the main games

[empty bloom]

There's a mod for Halo 3 MCC on Steam Workshop that at has a working Vulture and Sparrow

It's pretty cool

[foggy condor]

If only I had a pc

[royal relic]

personally IMHO, I don't really care for more air vehicle representation like Falcon, Vulture, or Sparrow if we keep getting overlapping new variants

like

[foggy condor]

If the d79 isn't in the next game I'm gonna glass 343 headquarters

[royal relic]

we have the Sparrow, Wasp, Kestrel, basically doing exactly the same thing, and recently added Falcata that is basically the superior option to all those

[versed helm]

do we know the lore behind the SoF crew size from ground engagments?

[royal relic]

like, I get standardization can be hard for a giant org like UNSC, but it's ridiculous when you have that level of overlapping-ness

like, I don't see why Sparrow, Wasp, Kestrel side of the spectrum can't be filled with gunship Falcons much like IRL MH-60 DAP

then have Falcata be the higher end of that VTOL capable CAS

streamline that logistics

[stoic hamlet]

No, they’re different vehicles.

The Wasp was Misriah’s bid to replace the Kestrel for the UNSC (the Kestrel was made for the CMA). The Sparrow is a much larger craft than the Wasp or Kestrel and has a correspondingly larger weapons loadout/armament options.

The Falcata is more akin to the Skyhawk, but where the Skyhawk is an Air-to-Ground Strike Fighter, the Falcata is a purely atmospheric interceptor.

[versed helm]

like i can look it up on halopidea but its really inconsistent

[foggy condor]

So are the wasp and hornet supposed to be little bird equivalents?

If so what's the halo equivalent to the apache

[stoic hamlet]

The Sparrowhawk.

[foggy condor]

Oh cool

How come there are so many cool craft in this franchise that we rarely ever see?

[stoic hamlet]

Because the games’ sandbox would struggle to feature them all.

[foggy condor]

That's lame

[unique rune]

Reality tends to be like that.

[royal relic]

I mean, what, you want Halo but ARMA?

[runic wharf]

Optre time

[royal relic]

Playing as a Spartan in optre must be busted as all hell

[versed helm]

sadly its a halo wars 1 thing only i agree 343i before there funding was cut by Microsoft they could have added more vehicles to infinite but hell they dident even do it in halo 4,5 a lot of game direction decisions where not fro the best in my opinion, they had so much to work with, but if you wish to "fly" the sparrowhawlk in the FPS games its in a CE mod on steam

[carmine sleet]

The Wasp was added to Halo 5 when Warzone Firefight was added, which was months after Halo 5 released

And where did you hear that about funding being cut? Because news as big as that wouldn't have flown under the radar

[versed helm]

what does the carbine fire?

also is the magnum one shotting hunters canon

[torpid night]

Yes in CE, magnum was a hand canon in the first game.

[versed helm]

do you know you can google it right?

[versed helm]

i was talking about the sparrowhawk

[torpid night]

If vostu pattern rifle it fires caseless radioactive rounds

[versed helm]

see simple google search https://www.polygon.com/23561210/microsoft-layoffs-xbox-bethesda-halo-infinite-343-industries

[carmine sleet]

Editing your message to reference a different vehicle after I pointed out your mistake is an odd choice

[carmine sleet]

That's layoffs, not the same as funding cuts from the studio

[versed helm]

ah i see your one of those people, have a nice day.

[carmine sleet]

Ok?

[versed helm]

ah wait i heard that the human weapons chief had were specifically made for spartans, is that why both that and the later versions are canon?

[unique rune]

Covenant War and prior Carbine models use some kind of radioactive caseless ammunition.

Postwar models are still caseless but lack the radioactivity.

The Magnum one-shotting Hunters isn’t canon, as fun as that’d be.

Lotta people would’ve died for no reason if it was that easy.

Some versions of the M6D were said to have been upscaled to 117% size for use by augmented personnel but it doesn’t really have any bearing on their canon performance because they still all use the same ammunition.

[orchid kettle]

There are very few weapons designed explicitly for Spartans. The deal with the Magnums if I recall is that they're just upscaled a bit to fit their big hands

Some of the Halo 4 or 5 human rifles were apparently designed with Spartans in mind as well, but they're not terribly different from their previous iterations

[empty bloom]

No.

[stoic hamlet]

Actually, I mean…maybe?

It’s firing an APHE round.

And if you shoot into the back, it’s just worms.

A single grenade placed inside the colony managed to kill them. If the charge is big enough it could at least destabilize the colony.

[empty bloom]

Shooting them with similar but higher caliber weapons in the other games doesn't really work as well-with the worms also tanking SPNKrs directly to the back.

Also, the sniper also one shots them in CE, despite the (absolutely stupid and completely inaccurate to how that sort of shot works) establishment of the rounds going through the similarly 'empty' squishy flood combat forms.

Not saying the Hunter's gonna be happy, mind, but the Hunter's not gonna be gone outright from a shot like that.

Point is, it's just because Bungie was weird and made the region 'headshottable'.

[stoic hamlet]

But using the games as the metric is a bit suspect.

[torpid night]

Not really, the magnum is super powerful compared to others but the Canon wise the acted correctly for everything other than the hunters

[stoic hamlet]

IIRC I think they had do, due to how enemies were coded.

[empty bloom]

Couldn't set up differing damage amounts unless you could onetap with a pistol or something?

[tribal trench]

it’s about as powerful as an IRL .50 AE Desert Eagle

[torpid night]

Sorry, i ment in game

[foggy condor]

It's funny that it's the United nations space command but it seems more American than anything

I know it's for gameplay purposes but it's just odd

[dusty ferry]

America just did the work when the unsc was formed I guess, and that kept going as military tradition

[last anchor]

Says the man discussing real world things in the lore chat.

[last anchor]

Considering that the UN HQ at the time (and still to this day in 2560) is in New York, its entirely possible they were the first ones asked to aid.

Assuming they didnt literally jump at the chance to be founding members of an interplanetary police agency

(In essence anyway)

[drowsy karma]

Team America: Galaxy Police

[meager pier]

Makes sense, as Halo is an American IP

[foggy condor]

America moment

So are there any countries on earth still or is the whole planet united?

[last anchor]

It's unified, but divided into blocks basically

All of North America is part of the United republics of North America for example

United Korea was mentioned, the UK still exists.

[grand prairie]

Does anyone know how intelligent slugmen are? If any survived high charity what factions does everyone think they would join?

[versed helm]

no idea what your talking about, also you were not aprt of the conversation

[last anchor]

Slugmen? The cut content guys?

[grand prairie]

Yep.

[versed helm]

hey do we list the best things out of each 343 halo game in some post somewhere so we either get what we want or we get to say that they ignored the fans again

if yes, i'll go first: terrain and biome diversity in halo 4

[carmine sleet]

Going to 343i and saying "You ignored the fans again" isn't going to help them with improving things

[last anchor]

You'll end up floating in Lake Washington more likely

[versed helm]

Did you understand what i meant?

[versed helm]

With what i saw here, you might be right.

Actually, i like how the elites look in that part, and don't hate locke so most definitely

Either way, i wanted to ask: Are spartan fours weaker or stronger than elites?

[last anchor]

About equal as far as we've seen

Throne goes toe to toe with one on fairly equal ground

[empty bloom]

We've usually seen superior, not equal.

What few 'equal' scenarios have occured have primarily been Spartan IVs in similar straits to Chief as of First Strike; Damaged armor, damaged body.

For example, Stone took down four plus elites in melee before he actually got KO'd and dragged to Sniper Alley.

[orchid kettle]

its just conservation of ninjutsu

the more elites in the room, the weaker they individually are

but if its ONE elite

better watch out

[empty bloom]

Well, no, it's gotta be a special singular elite.

So either big, wearing different armor, or named.

Unless it's an Ossoona, in which case they get merc'd by a captain with better eyes than a Marine guard like half his age.

[carmine sleet]

Keyes used his ability to see cloaked enemies

He then promptly lost it for plot convenience

[empty bloom]

I forgor that Keyes was 57 years old when he got infected

[drowsy karma]

Not in this chat, I think.

[drowsy karma]

Having actually tried one out, I can say that it's fine for a Spartan, but I wouldn't want one as a normie.

[tribal trench]

largest I’ve fired is 5.56 out of an AR-15

the glock I shot kicked like a bull though

I couldn’t imagine a Deagle

[carmine sleet]

From what I've learnt, a Deagle isn't practical as an actual sidearm but some people love to have them to show off

[wanton notch]

Yeah def not practical for normal people