#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 53 of 1

empty bloom
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Yes. Even the Jul Mdama Covenant would use scattershots and binary rifles. You can witness this in Halo 4 and 5, in fact.

steel stone
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that makes sense but something always felt off about them. 2 anniversary actually looks more like a actual infected flood spartan

empty bloom
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Basically, what they are trying to say is that the Flood is smart enough to utilize an armored shell using the host's tissue alongside less obvious forms of 'outside connection' like they did in Halo's OT. It is something of a paradigm shift that is being made as gameplay is less of a factor on the flood's lore now.

In other words, the flood infects every detail and layer of their host.

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Ergo, the sensory stalks aren't even actually where the infection form is, and the flood will devour portions of the host's body to make sensory or armor wherever they need, even using a disgusting corruption of natural healing when the flesh fails.

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It's "Less like the flood" because they changed the logic of the flood to more appropriately match the threat it is supposed to be.

steel stone
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cool thing i noticed the flood juggernaut is a carrier form but with extra long limbs that is really funny

empty bloom
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That's kind of an oversimplification.

steel stone
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i anyone notice that?

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i think those forms are called Keyminds now but from a design stanmdpoint i think i can see what they did XD

empty bloom
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I think that pigeonholing the flood into 'forms' was always kind of a halfway measure because of the logistics of making flood fulfill a variety of roles at random. Realistically, the flood should be far more variable in role, but early games had little actual effort put into the morphology of the flood, by design.

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If the flood were remade now as a concept I wager they would be far more variable, more akin to, say, the enemy roster of a modern zombie game, with a dozen or more 'variant' infected, with 'combat forms' merely being the most common 'threat'.

steel stone
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games made the flood too easy fighting and the lack of forms we see are so lame. worst part was they made some lore why we cant have flood jackals or grunts.

empty bloom
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More a roster along the lines of Dead Space or Back4Blood.

empty bloom
steel stone
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i always thought it was a stupid idea they could not infect grunts and jackals it just limits the flood as a threat. if the flood returned they should be able to infect everything and raise stakes in the gameplay

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some guy designed infected jackals and they run on all fours, scary stuff and a new enemy to fight too

empty bloom
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That's certainly an interesting change.

steel stone
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imagine the creativity that someone could do with a flood grunt, there is almost no limit to flood forms.

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there was a flood transport form that ate dead enemies and spat them back out turning them into combat forms, sadly was removed from halo 3. i do wonder if that is still a possible canon form still.

empty bloom
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Halo wars 2 had flood grunts

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Halo Wars 1 had an infected jackal model but it sucks, so have this cool flood jackal someone made

steel stone
empty bloom
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It's more gruesome than the grunt ortho so I'm just gonna spoiler it.

steel stone
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only issue is they all have one claw with nothing unique to them. they should give them big claws and have them mutate into more dangerous forms if the live long enough

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still that would of been perfect for halo 3, designs still look great id say

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they should add all those creepy forms from halo legends they had it done so right

wanton notch
# empty bloom

Man this would be a wicked enemy if they were faster/could run on walls and swipe at you

runic wharf
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Good thing the upcoming overarching narrative is precursor focused

grand prairie
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Would brutes use a UNSC shotgun 1 handed or 2 handed? I assumed 2 but it is kinda small compared to them.

unique rune
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I mean we see them in both Halo 2 and Infinite wielding the M90 and CQS48 respectively. In both instances they’re animated with the two-handed, so that’s probably the best we’ll get.

empty bloom
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By nature of operation, you don't really have much of a choice to use it two handed.

steel stone
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halo 3 brutes i think held weapons far better they looked really careless holding them

empty bloom
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Eh.

steel stone
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the spiker they held with 1 hand while spartans had to use 2 hands due to the size it was awesome

empty bloom
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I think that's a weird way to look at it.

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I mean, you didn't have to hold it like that

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It's dual wieldable after all

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Even if you can easily fire one handed, the second hand is for stabilization.

steel stone
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brutes are savage it feels off to me they would hold them like human would in halo infinite.

empty bloom
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Well, thing is, it's practical to hold it like people do.

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And a big thing for Halo now is a further emphasis on practicality.

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Part of it is also a further emphasis on Banished behavior.

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They emphasize what I like to say is 'small' practicality.

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Practicality in drill, practicality in technique. They train on the 'small' practicals.

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They don't train on the big practicalities due to social and cultural outlook, but they practice on the little practicalities in order to be effective in combat.

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Culture would say Atriox is a coward, a scoundrel, a fool. But practicality, in results, ensures that he is taken seriously, taken effectively, known as a fair and honest yet culturally border-riding warlord.

steel stone
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issue i see with that is that they not just people. brutes are are alien. seeing them hold spikers uniquely gives them a bigger unique identity. they are savage and aggressive just does not seem realistic for alot of them to hold weapons like humans would

empty bloom
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The weapons and tactics are still alien, which is the point.

steel stone
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it makes sense for some yeah but not all

versed helm
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So what’s the deal with banished Humans again? I’ve vaguely gathered that it’s “they were a small thing but now they’re basically nonexistent”, that close?

empty bloom
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They handle their equipment more practically. The Banished learn. They deal with it by being practical. Human methods are practical methods.

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The emphasis is done to beat you over the head with the concept.

empty bloom
steel stone
versed helm
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I thought about it after thinking about how much of the enemy dialogue is “We kill humans, we hate humans!”

runic wharf
empty bloom
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And you recall correctly.

grand prairie
steel stone
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banished goals and motives i dont really know at this point.

versed helm
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I’m rusty on them and replaying infinite and I’m wondering why they make them out to be a humanity ending threat

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Like human extermination doesn’t seem to fit their MO

steel stone
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cortana destroyed the brute homeplanet i guess that a good reason for the banished to go after humanity

runic wharf
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not really

empty bloom
grand prairie
empty bloom
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The "Order of Harmony" moniker, however, makes it sound muddier than it probably is.

grand prairie
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Indeed

steel stone
empty bloom
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Given Escharum's closest companions are largely religious adherents (Tovarus) or slavers (Bassus), I wager Escharum in particular dislikes humans.

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Tolerating humans as compatriots is more in Atriox's wheelhouse.

steel stone
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but why does he hate humans?

empty bloom
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Cultural indoctrination, views them as weak and unworthy of compassion or understanding, take your pick.

runic wharf
empty bloom
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Brutes are not known to prize a lack of relative strength or capability.

steel stone
runic wharf
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Having general disdain, general dislike, etc.-That all fits normal brute/banished MO but Infinite, and Particularly Rubicon Protocol go far beyond that

empty bloom
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Prophets had a vested political interest in the destruction of humanity.

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You mostly see that hatred from Non-Escharum sources in that novel.

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I do not believe Escharum has a particular vested interest in the plight of humans under his 'employ'. It is by his assosciations that this is emphasized.

steel stone
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i played the campaign i just saw him wanting a challenge hes a veteran brute

empty bloom
steel stone
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its been ages but i cant remember escharum honestly. i do remember him chatting alot through a speaker

empty bloom
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He wants a challenge. That is seperate from his hatred of 'lessers', like humans.

steel stone
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i dunno he felt like flat villain just glad i got to actually fight him unlike didact

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oh snap speaking of the didact did anyonehere know he was a planned character for halo 5?

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This dude got wrecked by dozens of composers and surprised he is even intact in this artwork

last anchor
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Some of that materials presumably being used for Epitaph if I had to guess

manic furnace
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whats a perfect name for an ODST

dusty ferry
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jim smith

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thats convincingly human

tribal trench
unique rune
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Luke Skydropper

sonic lagoon
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Old Droppy

orchid kettle
manic furnace
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why

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nevermind

carmine sleet
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It's not like you need a specific name to be an ODST

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Though anyone with a name like "Luke Skydropper" definitely should be

unkempt loom
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Peanut butter 🗿

tawny fox
stoic hamlet
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They wouldn’t have codenames. Not individually anyways.

empty bloom
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Nicknames, on the other hand.

tribal trench
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Dagger Actual, Dagger 2, Dagger 3, Dagger 4...

empty bloom
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You know, it's a little funny that we've only seen names taped to people's helmet it one game.

orchid kettle
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Yeah in Alpha-Nine at least, every member has a nickname

last anchor
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Some arent exactly original (Mickey is Micheal. Not sure about Dutch. I dont think Gretchen had one)

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Dare doesnt have one either. Nor Buck.

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Its just Romeo, Mickey, Dutch and Rookie.

orchid kettle
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Buck is often "Gunney" to the squad

last anchor
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Thats not a nickname, thats a rank.

orchid kettle
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but Buck mainly talks to Dare

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and they're exes

last anchor
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I guess Dares Miss Naval Intelligence acording to Buck so that might work.

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Spook probably would do too

orchid kettle
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and yeah, Dare is just Dare or Veronica because Buck is the only person who cares about her

tribal trench
orchid kettle
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no

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He's Taylor Miles

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He's called Dutch because he used to drive a truck that he called The Flying Dutchman

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I don't think we really hear about other ODSTs with nicknames

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Unless you wanna count the Reach fireteam names that pop up when you recruit NPCs

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Since they'll often have four letter designations that clearly dont relate to their name

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otherwise, I think the only other example is "Goliath" from Outcasts

last anchor
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Those are IFF designation tags, something else entirely

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Alpha-9 presumably got marketable titles, like "Chief" due to being protags of a game

orchid kettle
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A lot of the names are references as well, and that includes their HUD tags

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They added Grim to Reach's possible list of names as well, thats neat

empty bloom
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I always felt like Halo should try to humanize the other infantry more. Y'know, give em little nametags when you look at them.

orchid kettle
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Yeah, Infinite would have benefitted from that big time

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Its also why I never really liked the balaclava

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Show me their faces

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I've seen the marine pack on halo archive, I know there's actually a pretty decent variety of unique heads

stoic hamlet
versed helm
wanton notch
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I mean technically they have squad names but that's as granular as it gets

manic furnace
versed helm
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Oh yeah remind me, what happened to that whole giant army of guardians?

empty bloom
versed helm
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Well that was solved relatively easily

orchid kettle
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yeah they went home

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unfortunately "home" is deep within a random planet's crust

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so they kinda messed up Meridian and Sangheilos again

versed helm
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Isn’t there a crashed one somewhere?

orchid kettle
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On Zeta Halo yeah

grand prairie
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Is there any lore about the Armament Blaster or will it likely just end up on the Halo Infinite Cut Content wiki page whenever that exists (assuming that it never gets added)?

heavy shard
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Okay but when can YapYap THE DESTROYER be canon?

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When can he be significant?

tribal trench
dusty ferry
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As far as we know the only non canon part of wars 2 was Johnson, Forge, Serina, and the arbiter from wars coming back from the dead

stoic hamlet
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IIRC Yapyap’s rebellion wasn’t as big in canon, or it wasn’t even a rebellion. I can’t fully recall.

carmine sleet
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It's more just Yap Yap and a few others deserting from the Banished and making it out to be bigger than it actually is

versed helm
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I’m more interested in the story of how he got truth’s crown

heavy shard
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It's truths?

heavy shard
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I just want the whole rebellion to actually happen

versed helm
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Just had a little Ark model put on the front

heavy shard
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Yea

manic furnace
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can somone help me name my elite?

tropic forge
orchid kettle
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the real chad method is to just make random mouth noises until you land on something vaguely Elite sounding

manic furnace
sonic lagoon
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Do any laser weapons beside the Spartan laser exist?

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Also do they go the speed of light or can they go slower or faster?

pallid knoll
manic furnace
manic furnace
unique rune
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Sentinel Beams are some kind of space magicky particle beam. And/or hardlight depending on the model.

unique rune
manic furnace
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not magic

unique rune
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what

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y’know if you’re gonna try to correct an assumed misspelling maybe check that 1. it’s actually wrong to begin with and 2. your correction isn’t also wrong

wanton notch
manic furnace
sonic lagoon
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Quake has a lighting gun, as does Star Wars.

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Not sure if they count as magic though.

carmine sleet
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The idea of lightning based weaponry exists in both fantasy and science fiction

versed helm
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Does the UNSC directly make its warships or does it contract companies to make specific types of ships? It’s the latter isn’t it?

empty bloom
versed helm
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I figured, I just wasn’t sure. Atleast it’s more consistent than the covenant

empty bloom
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Ships like the Infinity are oddities, yeah

versed helm
empty bloom
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A small smattering, such as the Halcyon, were made by what seems to be independent shipwrights.

empty bloom
versed helm
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I still don’t get how they beat it, they just overwhelmed it? Before I assumed it was entirely alone but it definitely had an escort

unique rune
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Overwhelmed in an ambush is more or less all we know
Some aspects of its supposed destruction may be exaggeration on Escharum's end but there's not much else to go by

stoic hamlet
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Well, the in-game events aren’t actually accurate.

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(Shocker)

spiral jewel
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Assuming that it hasn't been decommissioned at some point, what's the current status of the UNSC Lancer class Corvette "Two for Flinching" (a really funny name not going to lie)

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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Yeah, that's what happens when the enemy has more survivability than you have tungsten rods.

rough schooner
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Who Here Things Chips Dubbo is The Best Marine in The Halo Universe

glacial sun
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how much different would Halo 2 have turned out if Sesa watchamacallit had let the Arbiter listen to the Oracle and Arbiter turned? What is Tartarus listened?

empty bloom
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Seraphs only seat one and I doubt Sesa fancied his odds.

wanton notch
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Their technology and tactics are usually more guerilla in nature. So, maybe it's possible they knew of the Infinity's location/trajectory... hard to say given we only have the Banished's perspective.

empty bloom
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I doubt it took them a measly four minutes unless Escharum is being exceedingly generous in his timetable.

carmine sleet
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Most likely Escharum exaggerating events in an attempt to demoralise Chief

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As for how the Banished won, their Dreadnaughts are designed to ram into things, which isn't exactly a tactic most ships in Halo are designed to defend against

orchid kettle
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It took four minutes, and your precious birthday cake became nothing more than a memory

carmine sleet
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Like, they're basically giant grav hammers

empty bloom
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They also apparently randomly got weird looking stealth ships that can stealth other ships?

versed helm
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And we know apparently Atriox returned to the banished right?

sonic lagoon
empty bloom
versed helm
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Presumably after he freed the Endless, so if that’s right they didn’t immediately off him

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Still don’t know why the cyclix icon is completely different

scarlet hinge
versed helm
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Useful

stoic hamlet
versed helm
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Okay so I dug around a bit

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Apparently the answer is mostly just attrition wearing the infinity down

wanton notch
empty bloom
meager pier
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The Banished got that ship from Craigslist

orchid kettle
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so they're basically portable stealth pylons

rugged cobalt
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They just rammed the infinity over and over and boarded it

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They most likely knew where it was

wanton notch
scarlet hinge
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there's a bit in outcasts where they have a squadron of Karves and a Drekar hidden inside a crater on one of the moons of Netherop, underneath a cloaking tower (the Halo Wars 2 building that cloaks your base)

empty bloom
scarlet hinge
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yeah

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it definitely confused quite a few people when it first came out

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shame, too, because the idea of a drekar cloaking other ships is badass

tropic forge
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It would be a nice little bit of retcon if the unknown ships from Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian that jumped the Midlothian right as it was coming out of slipspace were Drekars or prototype Drekars.

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The details and the timeline don't line up perfectly but the idea is fun.

scarlet hinge
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in Cole Protocol, Armaggeddon's Edge is noted as having a bridge close to the front of the vessel - which is obviously inconsistent with all currently visualised destroyer classes (Able, Hillsborough, Halberd)

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but it is consistent with the design of the cruisers (especially the Halcyon)

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given we designed the Able to combine visual elements of the Halberd destroyers and the larger cruisers to fill out the ~700m size range, I've been thinking about the potential for a successor heavy destroyer concurrent with the Halberd that is equipped with a MAC, and displays some of the design stylings of a cruiser like the fore bridge

rugged cobalt
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I don’t think those channels take into account most 3s died before there augmentations fully set it

crystal copper
stoic hamlet
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Was I tagged?

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
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Which post?

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I’m confused~

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@empty bloom

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
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Did that… come up again? Or was it just something you saw but like, forgot the date?

So ignore the tag then?

rugged cobalt
stoic hamlet
rugged cobalt
stoic hamlet
rugged cobalt
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Becuase I have heard gammas are stronger and than I have also heard 2s are stronger

stoic hamlet
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How familiar are you with the books? Like, have you read them, are you a game only fan usually?

Just asking so I can get a baseline.

rugged cobalt
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Mostly game only

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Like ik how the Spartan 2s where augmented but where the 3s augmented the same just in a chemical form?

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Becuase the 3s do be short

stoic hamlet
# rugged cobalt Mostly game only

Okay, so, basically, to break it down:

The “II’s being stronger” is a misconception and just not true. The II’s and III’s by and large are the same rough strength. They’ve been described in some sources as being nigh equal. The differences come from the augmentations, where the II’s were primarily surgical and the III’s chemical (but the III’s also underwent surgical augmentation, just not as much)

Strength or speed there’s no discernible difference, to most people.

Think of it, I guess, like a top-top-top-tier athlete, like, the top three.

Yeah, number one might be… idk, .45 seconds faster or able to lift so many more pounds than number 2, but in all real metrics that’s basically irrelevant. Like it’s so close it’s meaningless.

The Gammas are different.

As part of their augmentations, they were given additional augmentations that, in times of adrenaline, essentially remove their bodies limits, they feel no pain, they’re immune to shock. You could shoot one through the stomach and they wouldn’t register it, break their arm and they wouldn’t flinch from the pain, etc. this has side effects, but for the pure strength factor these don’t really matter.

Under regular situations, they’re as strong as any other Spartan.

Under duress, they’re far, far stronger. In Last Light, it’s theorized that a Gamma in SPI (which provides only basic strength and speed enhancement) is equal in strength to a Spartan in Mark VI/GEN2 MJOLNIR (which quintuples their already insane strength). But only under these conditions.

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The strength overall isn’t the important part, it’s the ignorance to pain, really.

rugged cobalt
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So what activates it per se, near death or just extremely stressful situations

stoic hamlet
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The latter.

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Well, both.

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But technically the latter.

rugged cobalt
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Because I have heard a story of a Spartan fighting after his Chest got blown open or something?

stoic hamlet
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It’s described as a “fight or flight response” trigger.

rugged cobalt
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And he was a gamma

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Idk I really need to read the books do u have an order I should read them?

gilded mason
rugged cobalt
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So it’s not gonna pull a star wars?

stoic hamlet
rugged cobalt
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Oof

stoic hamlet
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Echoing @gilded mason’s suggestion.

rugged cobalt
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And does anyone know what happened to the Infinitiy?

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Just got blown up or?

gilded mason
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Unknown, but I sure hope it's destroyed

rugged cobalt
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Why?

gilded mason
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A lot of stuff that I can't properly put into words

stoic hamlet
last anchor
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It served it'd purpose

hot zodiac
exotic pulsar
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Right, because somehow it's fair for the covenant/banished to have a ship as big as the Super Carrier but the UNSC can't.

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The Infinity was only 5,694 meters, while a covenant supercarrier is 28,960 meters. That's four times the size of the Infinity in length.

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Yes it is cannon now that the Banished got a hold of a Supercarrier.

tribal trench
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well, had

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the covenant obviously doesn’t exist anymore, and their technological edge was undermined by humanity finding forerunner technology and using it in the Infinity (among other things)

empty bloom
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I should note that Banished Dreads are built off of the keels of Covenant warships, and that the Supercarrier under Let Volir's grasp was the only known ship of that class and displacement the Banished owned.

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The Banished seem to favor the diplomacy of soft power-the ability to get others to do as you wish through coercision rather than outright force-with hard power combined with ingenuity filling in the gaps. While this isn't exactly very obvious at first or second or even third glances, the idea is that the Banished's strength primarily lies in soft power, not hard power.

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The hard power coming into play in Infinite can and admittedly does come across as a bit of a rearpull, so I get why it's jarring.

exotic pulsar
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The Banished are willing to be diplomatic, but WILL use violence to get their way if needed. They honestly sound like a merc version of NATO.

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They are willing to take anyone into the Banished, even humans.

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Imagine a Spartan turning traitor and joining the Banished.

empty bloom
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I'd rather not imagine it because it's a ludicrously stupid idea in my eyes. It's antithetical to the Banished's general philosophy as well as the Spartan IV's general philosophy.

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IIs, IIIs, and IVs are pragmatic to be sure, but they do not trend towards the type to be philosophical adherents to that of the Banished.

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An alliance of convenience in the face of the Created could be possible, but the day you see a Spartan in Banished livery without being a double agent is a day hell's doors rattle in the wind.

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Considering every known Spartan traitor that's ever existed can be construed as a human supremacist, I can't imagine that there'd be one that's willing to join an organization that condones throwing "undesireable" humans into a methane gas chamber because they find it amusing in some sick way.

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Or that happily engages in slavery of humans (Bassus).

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Or that happily forms an organization built entirely from the ground up around hunting down, and killing, Spartans.

rugged cobalt
orchid kettle
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Its why even before Infinite, the Infinity was constantly being disabled, boarded, or sidelined. Because you just can't really have a story if the Infinity is allowed to be the superweapon it should be

exotic pulsar
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The fact is I honestly felt like the Infinity was a waste of potential at least when it comes to something like a ship. We had cool UNSC ships like the PoA, SoF and the FoD. The Infinity was this modern state of the art ship mixed with both human and forerunner tech, and we never really got to see it used much in ship to ship engadgements except for in 4. Even then if the Infinity was still around, the UNSC would not be strong enough to take on the Banished head on.

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If the Infinity would have had to fought the Supercarrier that the banished had it would not last long against a ship that size. The Infinity was only 5,694 meters, while a covenant supercarrier is 28,960 meters. That's four times the size of the Infinity in length.

orchid kettle
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Well, we know size isn't all that matters in a fight. Whole point of that first space battle in Fall of Reach is that the UNSC was getting memed on by a lil 300m Covenant vessel

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The Infinity has a pair of SMACs and is powered by a Forerunner engine

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At some point, the other ship is just a bigger target. At least going by old Nylund rules of space battles, where the Covenant largely just fired plasma torpedoes that locked and followed their target, but didn't seem to be faster than a MAC or anything

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and they fizzled out if you killed the ship of origin

exotic pulsar
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Honestly, I still find it kind of dumb that the plasma torpedos didn't fizzle out at a certain range. It should do that once the magnetic field dissiplates.

rugged cobalt
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So are MACs the most powerful weapon the UNSC have apart from nukes?

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Did the UNSC just not try to shield ships and just focus on offense

orchid kettle
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Energy shields were seen as crazy advanced technology in the eyes of the UNSC

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and it took them years to successfully reverse engineer it from recovered Covenant technology

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and they only really got as far as giving Spartans shields when the war ended

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Perhaps because it would have taken a ton of power to create an "e-field" around an entire ship

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and a ship's reactor already has its hands full charging the MAC and slipspace drive to begin with

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thats how I read it, in any case

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after the war, the unsc just got way more advanced in every way

carmine sleet
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There are a couple human ships with shields, but it's still pretty rare

exotic pulsar
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Yeah, grenider was the only spartan armor that they experimented with shield technology for a time, but thanks to reverse engineering a jackal shield gauntlet they were able to further improve on it. Mark V[B] was also used as a test bed for various prototype tech including shields before energy shileding was finally given to the Mark V.

orchid kettle
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so yeah now they have shields, way faster slipspace drives, and whatnot

exotic pulsar
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People like to hate on the mark V[B], but the fact is it was intrical to help in developing future tech and features that eventually became standard or extra for Mjolnir Power Assault Armor.

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So yeah I am glad it got a new lease of life in Halo canon personally.

carmine sleet
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I don't think I've encountered anyone hating on the Mark V[b] existing

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At most I have seen people talking about the Mark V helmet design used for Reach and how they prefer other versions of that helmet but that's it

exotic pulsar
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Trust me it has it's haters out there. I once got into a debate here with someone who said that the Mark V[B] was a waste of time and uneeded.

orchid kettle
exotic pulsar
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The fact is, it would be stupid of the UNSC to slap some unproven tech onto their next version of Mjolnir without getting the kinks ironed out.

orchid kettle
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but of course if I had my way, MJOLNIR's many variants would be streamlined a ton

exotic pulsar
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Why do you not like that is it's own suit? Is this like a Core thing for Infinite or just in general?

orchid kettle
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In general.

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I personally find it needlessly complicated. It's only really there to explain why Six kept Cortana in a thermos instead of plugging her into his brain

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But I honestly don't think that needs an explanation

exotic pulsar
#

Yeah I think it was you and me who got into that argument. Like I said it would make sense to make a suit in between four and five to use as a test bed for further concepts to be put into give. In exe, shielding.

orchid kettle
orchid kettle
exotic pulsar
#

IDK, but if I recall didn't the V[B] not be able to integrate with smart AI anyways?

#

Auntie DOT was a dumb AI.

orchid kettle
#

Right, that's mainly the big difference between them, and why people argue that it has to be a different suit in Reach

#

to explain why Six didn't shove Cortana into their data port the first chance they got

#

But I don't think its a "plot hole" to begin with

#

let my beloved Mark V exist for longer than two months

exotic pulsar
#

Well like I said, it was a suit mainly used for testbedding concepts and prototypes that could be useful for the next generation of the suit. If anything there probably was some sort of attachment or something that would allow the V[b] to house a smart AI.

#

Like, some sort of prototype data port that would allow that to happen. Maybe something that goes on the wrist.

#

As if I recall the mark V[B] did have like, wrist mounted tac maps, and GPS systems and stuff.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah but you need something beefier for a smart AI to operate at full capacity

#

In Contact harvest, they have whole data centers dedicated to them

exotic pulsar
#

Right, and in a few years they were able to make that small enough to be put into the armor.

orchid kettle
#

The fact that Halsey fit that much computing power and storage into a man-sized suit is supposed to be as crazy and as impressive as the energy shielding

exotic pulsar
#

Might be because of the crystal lattice?

#

All I know is Mjolnir makes power armor like the cyclops look like medival tech in comparison.

#

I just think that it's a neat concept that the V[B] exists as some in between armor that was used for so many different prototypes and concepts. TBH Gen 2 was kind of like that. Used for all kinds of prototype features.

orchid kettle
#

The AI is also partially in your mind as well, which is why Chief needed an upgrade to his neural implant

#

I don't think Cortana is using his brain for extra computing power or anything, but she's apparently able to make Chief react even faster than before

exotic pulsar
#

faster and probably stronger if need be. I imagine it also pushes the limit of the suit as well.

#

Like, overclocking it like a CPU or GPU.

orchid kettle
#

If Chief has ever been called "the greatest Spartan", it'd honestly probably be because Cortana is giving him a boost that other Spartans just don't have access to

#

The two of them together are "the greatest", but Chief by himself isn't really supposed to be anything special by Spartan standards

exotic pulsar
#

They don't have access to "overclocking" because they don't got a smart AI playing piggy back in thier suit.

orchid kettle
#

aside from his leadership, but that obviously doesn't mean much when he spends so much time solo in the games

#

and he's not even necessarily the best leader, he supposedly lost to Kurt in training a lot

exotic pulsar
#

For everything that the Spartans are supposed to be better then a regular humans, compared to the others, John is just "meh".

#

The only reason Cortana chose him was his uncanny good luck.

orchid kettle
#

He's always saddened by the loss of human life, especially when he's the one who killed them

#

Even when he knows that he's technically following orders and completing his mission

exotic pulsar
#

Maybe that's why also Halsey chose him as well. That his luck gave him just enough of an edge to prevail.

orchid kettle
#

Though I think as the series has gone on, nobody actually wanted to write the other IIs as particularly ruthless and cold

#

So they're every bit as nice and caring as Chief

exotic pulsar
#

Chief has always had compassion it's just that until recently he hasn't exactly shown it up until now.

orchid kettle
#

and at some point, Chief is only special because he's Cortana's chosen one

exotic pulsar
#

Like I said, that incredible luck factor. Kurt actually was the most compassionate when it came to other humans.

orchid kettle
#

Since even Kurt, who supposedly surpassed John's leadership skills, didn't appear until six years after Fall of Reach

#

otherwise in Fall of Reach and First Strike, Chief really does just appear to be the best leader

#

With Fred spending all of First Strike worried that he can't live up to Chief's example and he'll screw things up

exotic pulsar
#

Kurt gave the gammas their extra boost because he felt guilty about alpha and beta company.

#

God, imposter syndrome.

orchid kettle
#

I kinda wish Fred remained as Blue Team's leader forever

#

It always seemed strange to me how even in the post war stories, sometimes Chief just drops in and Fred gracefully steps aside

exotic pulsar
#

Eh, due to their dymanic Fred would always drop the leader role and give to john in a heartbeat.

orchid kettle
#

I dunno, Id rather have a scene where Chief tells Fred that he's the man now, dog

#

and permanently leave Blue in his care

#

Bring Fred's inferiority complex to a close by having Chief recognize him as Blue's true, greatest leader

exotic pulsar
#

TBH I wish we would see more of blue team. Like dude, I wish Linda was active during 04 and not incapacitated.

#

Imagine having both her and chief boots on the ring. Two spartans can get more done then just one.

#

With her impeccable marksmen skill she could have been used to assassinate covenant leaders on the ground.

orchid kettle
#

Im also sad that they kinda just forgot that Kelly is supposed to be Blue's emotional support

#

She's always been the empath of the group

#

but now it just feels like she's just there

exotic pulsar
#

Empath, don't you mean the mom of the group?

orchid kettle
#

with Fred apparently stealing her other role of being the sassy one in the Denning books

orchid kettle
#

the one who keeps the gang centered and on the straight and narrow

#

the emotionally intelligent one

#

which yeah-- is almost always the girl

#

but its a good role to have in a group dynamic anyway

exotic pulsar
#

Freds roll confuses me besides him being the co leader. There is john, who while leader is just average but with incredible luck. Kelly is the fastest spartan on foot and is an excellent scout. Then there is Linda who can hit a fly off the head of an Elite at two thousand yards while both her and the elite in motion. While fed is just....shrug.

#

Kurt I believe was a CQC specialist.

orchid kettle
#

In the "Five Man Band" trope, you could argue that Fred is basically the "Lancer" or "Big Guy"

exotic pulsar
#

Odd that he's the "big guy" when his default weapon is a BR and not something like the SAW.

orchid kettle
#

The Lancer being a character who's whole thing is that they contrast the Hero in some way. A stronger example would probably be Romeo and how he always butts heads with Buck and how that leads to a lil conflict in dialogue scenes

#

Chief is an average Spartan, but a great leader

#

Fred is second best in everything supposedly, but has no confidence in himself, especially as a leader

#

in the Denning books, this is still kinda true in the sense that Chief is all business while Fred is the jokester

#

not a super interesting lancer dynamic, but whatcha gonna do

#

You could argue Linda is more so "The Big Guy" since the big guy just has to be a character who's great in a fight

#

and Linda sure is absurd

exotic pulsar
#

You want to talk interesting lancer dynamic? Jorge and Emile. They butted heads.

#

Literally polar opposites.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, Jorge and Emile have a strong dynamic

#

its just a shame we didn't actually see them interact much

exotic pulsar
#

"Big Man always was sentimental."

orchid kettle
#

meanwhile Jun sure does

#

exist

exotic pulsar
#

Honestly wish there was more books about noble, before reach.

orchid kettle
#

the fifth role btw in the five man band is supposed to be The Smart Guy

#

which in Halo is usually an AI

#

but its kinda hard to think of Cortana as Blue Team's fifth member

#

and not more specifically Chief's hacker sidekick

#

Kat kinda fits the criteria tho

exotic pulsar
#

Jun was chatty and snarky. Though his quote about the Covenant, "I kill the enemy, but do not hate them." I found sort of compelling?

#

Their wiping out your race, yet you don't hate them?

orchid kettle
#

I just mean in terms of interacting with the others

#

he feels very disconnected from the rest

exotic pulsar
#

He's the Sniper. Of course that would be a sterotype of one. Their Loners.

#

Which is odd, since generally snipers work in pairs.

#

TBH Carter just felt like any no nonsense leader I have seen in any sort of fiction.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, but Romeo is a sniper too, and he's a very strong presence on Alpha-Nine

orchid kettle
#

There's just not a lot left for him in the group beyond being the guy who tells them what to do

exotic pulsar
#

Yeah and Jun can't be the Lone Wolf because that's Six.

orchid kettle
#

but Holland also tells them what to do

exotic pulsar
#

Carter is just a no nonsence generally by the books leader. He exspects everyone part of his team to do thier job and do it well.

orchid kettle
#

I think the reason why Buck works is because he and Rookie are both Heroes

#

Buck is the one with the drive to rescue his ex and his men both, and it's largely his story we're experiencing

#

its just we as the player get to lend him a helping hand

exotic pulsar
#

God the Rookie don't remind me. They could have given him ANYKIND of name, but they went with the most in your face one.

#

Jonathan Doherty

#

AKA JOHN DOE.

orchid kettle
#

Honestly I would have been fine as forever labelling him JD

exotic pulsar
#

Who thought this one up?

orchid kettle
#

let people make up their own explanation for what the initials stand for

#

some people really liked Dante for the D

#

considering he's guided by a Vergil into the ninth sublevel of New Mombasa

exotic pulsar
#

Honestly it was clear the Rookie was somehow the glue that keptthe team together considering the aftermath of his death.

#

Yeah yeah I get it. Dante's Inferno theroy.

#

TBH I love the overall look of the armor. There is a reaosn why I stuck to using the ODST helmet since Halo 3.

#

Glad they added it to halo 4. May not look a bit right, but beggers can't be choosers.

stoic hamlet
#

IMO it should have been James Dante.

There’s a line where Buck hells “step on it James” in the last level. It’s an Easter egg, but you know.

#

Regarding Noble though, we really do need a book about them.

Something to fully connect them to Ghosts of Onyx, mend those plot holes.

We’re halfway there but not actually there fully.

orchid kettle
#

need an explanation for why Carter was like 11 when every other III was kidnapped at 4-6

stoic hamlet
#

And IMO they have a lot of issues that haven’t been fixed yet. They’re great in a vacuum, but they overall rub my the wrong way.

orchid kettle
stoic hamlet
#

So, basically, my issue overall is a number of small things that all add up to make me dislike the whole thing.

And for the record, I fully admit this is both emotional bias and reading too much into things, it’s technically everything I stand against doing on a professional level. It goes against everything I’ve been taught and trained to do.

but

The issues stem from how it’s handled.. or lack thereof.

As I mentioned to Brave earlier, stuff like this has to have a payoff, some reason for existing. Sort of a Chekhov’s gun but just a general principle. If it’s noted down and acknowledged there has to be a purpose to it.

As a good example, Holly’s (presumed) age of 12 when she died.

Every time she’s described it’s by using words like “small” or “frail” on the augmentation table, or that she was teased for her haircut by the others, or that Halsey directly notes she looks very young, but obviously contrasted with her fighting spirit and skills as a soldier. And when she dies, Kurt directly calls out the fact that she was 4 when he met her, and that she had died seconds after Will, a man Kurt had known since childhood.

This highlights then that to Kurt (and therefore the reader) these two deaths are the same. Separated by ages and generations but to Kurt the pain was the exact same.

We get a pay off for everything said about her previously. Her appearance, her personality, etc. we as the readers can visualize what it feels like, what it means that she’s died.

With Noble Team (and plus) the opposite occurs.

Their ages have no bearing on their characters or personalities, they have no effect on who they are as people or our relation to them. It breaks the established narrative set by Ghost’s of Onyx and makes them different… for what? That they had better genetics so they were chosen to “skip the line”?

1/2

#

They’re older than the average, some by a good 4 years or more. Okay, sure. Fine.

Do something with it.

Make it matter.

Have consequences from it. Have fights, have rivalries, have jealousy, have their ages mean something more than just the genetics and a note on some wiki.

Have Carter mentor younger trainees, have Hazel isolate herself from the others because she’s “too old”. Have these reassigned III’s acknowledge their dead, have them question why they were removed. Have it matter to them, not the setting.

Have all the Alpha reassignments reunite for some operation in 2538 or something, and have them all form up like they’re in a company of 300, not a group of two dozen. Have them recognize they were removed and have them work through that grief, that survivors guilt. We had that with John, and the II washouts, where he asked Mendez “what did I do wrong?” Why haven’t we gotten that with the III’s?

Have them be different, special cases pulled for their skills in a certain facet of war, sure.

But don’t take away what made the III’s so compelling and interesting (IMO) in the first place.

They don’t have the genetics of the II’s, they have no lighting in a bottle, they’re not just random kids, obviously, but the III’s as a whole (in Ghosts) were always compared to the II’s and contrasted by them. They were different but not the same.

But that’s then seen through Kurt’s eyes and he sees no differences. They are the same. They always were, always will be.

Kurt would not remove Carter from the Company, or Hazel, or Owen or etc. obviously that’s no longer his doing, but we still don’t actually have any reconciliation about this. No acknowledgment.

The age, really, is the most front facing of the overall issue. Noble Team and friends are special. They’re on a pedestal above the rest, they shouldn’t be. None of them should.

Yet they’re treated as such.

And there’s no actual payoff for it.

2/2

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, Noble Team being special is really just because we needed Spartans to be protags

#

And Reach itself is unfortunately not that interested in them

#

If it was, they'd use the data pads to dive into them as characters

#

like how ODST's audio logs enriched its story

#

but for Reach, the data pad just introduces the Assembly who don't really matter to what's happening here and now

#

It's been mentioned that since ODST and Reach were in development at the same time, there was a lot of cross-contamination when it came to certain ideas

#

A squad of six, with you as the faceless new guy. The leader and The Girl having a past romantic relationship (Which may still be canon for Carter and Kat, but any mention of it was cut from the game itself)

#

But its interesting to see compare the two, and consider how ODST did it right, while Reach did it wrong

stoic hamlet
#

Mhm.

#

I mean, overall, Reach (Noble and other III’s introduced after) just causes a lot of little tiny problems that grow into a larger one.

Like, yeah, The Fall of Reach is generally screwed over…. But so too was Ghosts of Onyx, with little done to rectify it.

And what was done hasn’t actually rectified most of the issues.

orchid kettle
#

It certainly gave III fans an avenue for their OCs to have mjolnir and shoot aliens I guess

#

but I guess you could argue Headhunters would have accomplished something similar

stoic hamlet
#

See, and that’s the thing.

I think the changes overall are good.

It’s just it needs to be fully rectified, and it’s not terribly hard to do so… it just… isn’t.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, past a certain point, it just feels like Halo isn't all that interested in IIIs

#

It's all about IIs and IVs and how those two relate to each other

#

and IIIs are kinda just the red headed stepchild here

stoic hamlet
#

Yup.

Which isn’t even terribly bad.

You know, it’s kinda fitting that the secretive “blacker than black ops” Spartans have faded into obscurity.

Thematically appropriate in a sense. We got a peek in but then they’re taken out of the spotlight.

But it does feel really odd, overall.

Especially because only some are “focused on” (not even) but only for the sake of other characters, like Veta.

orchid kettle
#

Its ironic when you consider how IIIs apparently are the most common type of Halo OC

#

Yeah when Denning writes established characters, I don't really feel like I know any more about them than I did in their original debut

stoic hamlet
#

And that’s also fine.

Like it segues well into them being that easy to make OC.

343 don’t need to do anything with the III’s, necessarily l, just say “yeah they’re all out there doing X”

But they don’t even do that, lol.

orchid kettle
#

Arby was good in outcasts tho

hot zodiac
#

I'm not personally bothered be these things to much but I get it. Reach went really out of its way to create a super special spartan group out of it's butt, and than you had S-IVs and Spartan Ops making that kind of thing feel fairly ubiquitous. Kinda a big whiplash.

orchid kettle
#

Ultimately it felt like an attempt to allow more Spartan-II type characters to exist

#

but then 343 revealed that actually a lot of IIs believed dead from the augs could be revived

#

i guess because they thought it was important that the character is one of Chief's childhood friends

stoic hamlet
#

It devalues John’s character a lot from First Strike, if most of Red Team survived.

Having it just be Fred, Kelly, Linda that survivor the events of The Fall and First Strike helps with making him feel lost and alone.

But then Omega, Black, HW Red and Naomi out there kind of devalue that immensely, especially because Black and Red are rehabs.

orchid kettle
#

Gray Team at least has the excuse of being called out as not being at Reach in the original novel

#

pretty smart of Buckell

versed helm
#

iMaGiNe bEinG CaNaDiUn

#

Guys

#

i have a joke...

stoic hamlet
#

One of the biggest things that the failed augmentations do in TFoR is teach John that sometimes you just lose people, you can’t save them all.

It’s why his question to Mendez of “what did I do wrong?” matters so much.

Because there was nothing that could be done, but John still has to live with that loss.

orchid kettle
#

It also just kinda begs the question of why they would even lie about that to him

#

Like he's already aware of 12 candidates who have been warped and scarred by the augs but ultimately survived

#

what's so special about Red Team that he can't know about them

#

Also yeah, it's very ironic for the company that originally wanted to place the horrors of the Spartan-II program under a microscope to then turn around and unmurder those children

#

It's a bit of mixed messaging

stoic hamlet
#

One hand doesn’t know what the other’s doing.

#

But it ties into the overall thing with the Spartans as a whole. That they seem to want to acknowledge it but only half-heartedly because actually acknowledging it would be terrible for the brand, or something.

#

But yeah, the washout thing is just.. I don’t like it.

The III’s already fulfil that role by having Noble and etc exist. There’s no reason to bring more back, especially if you’re not going to do anything with them (like Omega)

orchid kettle
#

It seems strange too because it doesn't even seem like they're that invested in doing prequel stories set during the human covenant war that would require brand new Spartans

#

Its like basically just Owen in Battleborn

stoic hamlet
orchid kettle
#

Yeah its just... Chief again

#

Lasky sure as heck ain't being rescued and inspired by Anton

#

One small thing that would have gone a long way in those Chief prequel books would be if Chief actually changed Blue Team's roster for every mission

#

so we got to bond with Kurt and Daisy, maybe even Randall

stoic hamlet
#

I still think the best part of Silent Storm is when Chief, Anton and Grace fought off those Brutes near the crashed prowler.

If only because, for the briefest of seconds, we got to see the II’s as they were originally envisioned again.

Fluid entities with no set roster or pairing.

stoic hamlet
orchid kettle
#

The implication that Daisy is the insubordinate trouble maker makes me very happy

#

I just wish we saw it more

stoic hamlet
#

Or have each book (assuming Shadows of Reach was a prequel in this context) feature a different team.

Silent Storm is Blue.

Oblivion is Green..

[inset name here] is Gold.

orchid kettle
#

SoR may not be a prequel, but you could include that comic that introduced the Cobalt armor

#

considering Chief is still wearing it in Silent Storm

#

Oh seeing Maria in action again would be nice too

stoic hamlet
#

Silent Storm had Malcom in it.

orchid kettle
#

Im basically the most interested in the Spartan-IIs who either will leave in the future, or tried to leave in Daisy's case

stoic hamlet
#

But it was just a name drop.

orchid kettle
#

heck make them part of the same team

#

Team Freedom

stoic hamlet
#

What a waste, lol

orchid kettle
#

yeah that's kinda how I felt about most of Silent Storm's cameos

#

Just felt like I was being teased with the prospect of a story with new characters or at least old characters who haven't been explored

#

but nah its Blue Team again

#

for the millionth time

stoic hamlet
#

I remember singing Silent Storm’s praises when it released.

Because I thought it was going somewhere.

Then oblivion came out…

orchid kettle
#

Oblivion also known as

#

Walking

#

which unfortunately became a trend with Denning novels

#

Oblivion, SoR, Divine Wind

#

the structure is just Point A to Point B

#

meet some natives

stoic hamlet
#

See, I’d be okay with that.

If it was say, Green or Gold Team.

Because then we could get some new interactions and etc.

orchid kettle
#

but that's the extent of the twists and turns

exotic pulsar
#

There isn't many spartan 2's left. Supposedly there is also Omega Team?

#

That consisting of Leon-011 who uses an Energy sword,
Robert-025 who is heavy weapons and uses a stolen banished plasma caster, then August-099 who uses a Railgun.

carmine sleet
#

Robert has a Plasma Cannon, not a Plasma Caster

#

Also Grey Team is still active last we heard from them

meager pier
#

Wonder what Denning is gonna write next

stoic hamlet
exotic pulsar
#

Skin can be grafted back on though.

stoic hamlet
#

Aye. As she mentioned to John in a letter she sent “it feels good to be skinned again”.

But that only happened in 2552.

orchid kettle
#

I honestly wonder what the deal is supposed to be with the 12 publicly maimed Spartans

#

are those guys so far gone that they have no hope of rehab, and thats why Chief is allowed to know they exist?

stoic hamlet
#

Honestly…. That just makes it worse, thinking about it, lol.

orchid kettle
#

I mean surely thats the case. Musa is still in a wheelchair by 2553

#

instead of power armor

carmine sleet
exotic pulsar
#

Yeah and one of them got turned into ONI's new head director.

#

We don't even know if the new director still respects John or if the ONi branwashing by her teacher went so far deep it erased that.

stoic hamlet
#

No I’m pretty sure she respects the other II’s.

#

It’s Halsey she was groomed to hate (but honestly that’s not that hard, Halsey’s a terrible person even without Paragosky worming her way into your mind, lol)

orchid kettle
#

I remember when I made a Spartan-II OC as a teenager in 2010, I made him a Halsey-hating ONI attack dog

#

all he was missing was an eyepatch

#

and a skull carved into his helmet

stoic hamlet
orchid kettle
#

his arm IS a knife

stoic hamlet
#

And a super edgy callsign

orchid kettle
exotic pulsar
#

God I have had my fair share of debates on that. Yes we get that Halsey kidnapped and indoctrinated kids. Yes, we know the Spartans were originally made to fight the innies despite them being the next human evolution. Though when the Covenant came and glassed Harvest no one then cared about the original context of why they were made in the first place.

stoic hamlet
#

Like…. “Shadow”

Or “wolf”

Or something to that effect.

orchid kettle
#

uh oh

#

current OCs are Fireteam Wolf

stoic hamlet
#

No see if it’s a fireteam it’s okay.

#

It’s the singular individuals that’s the problem.

stoic hamlet
exotic pulsar
#

My Spartan preferred being in the air then on the ground so he was a pilot at heart.

orchid kettle
#

Wolf, Walf, Wylf, and Wulf

stoic hamlet
#

You forgot Wolfe

exotic pulsar
#

Wolf, Worg, Coyote, Jackal...

#

They all can't be named wolf.

orchid kettle
#

Well Jackal would be confusing when you fight aliens also called Jackal

orchid kettle
#

I never wrote them in anything, but I do figure they know a Fireteam Coyote, Fox, etc etc

#

because ODSTs have a million different naming conventions for their units and Im choosing to go by Raven's example

#

sure maybe its not specifically animal themed, but its more fun to me if its animal-themed, metal gear style

carmine sleet
#

My OC's just full of trauma and anxiety and just happened to test a bunch of prototype gear

exotic pulsar
#

Mine just loved to fly to be honest. He was a great pilot but didn't lack in other areas.

orchid kettle
#

I had the edge Spartan use a prototype bubble shield ability on his armor, but I also made it such a liability that it was actively making him less effective than if he didn't have it

#

Like, it'd use his own shields to expand and make the bubble, but then it wouldn't ever recharge

#

always felt like "prototype" tech was too much of a free pass in Halo

stoic hamlet
#

Mine are so basic that they’re boring.

They just kinda exist… and that therefore makes them unique by proxy.

exotic pulsar
#

With out researching into prototypes we wouldn't have got Mjolnir this far.

orchid kettle
#

Well I meant like, the author will use the excuse of their gear being a prototype to explain why no one else have it (or sometimes why the character wont have it in the next story)

#

but it just works flawlessly and with no trouble

#

with only really MJOLNIR Black setting Black-3's ankle wrong as the only counter example

exotic pulsar
#

Well blame the authors. It probably works most of the time but still has the habit of failing.

orchid kettle
#

Spartans are perhaps too rigidly defined. They share too much backstory with each other to really stand out

#

Always thought Chief and any other Spartan was at their best when interacting with non Spartans

stoic hamlet
#

Ehh, I think you can do some good work with them. It’s the smaller details that help you differentiate them. If anything it’s a greater display of writing ability because you need to be subtle with it.

But yeah, I agree there.

orchid kettle
#

Well, I can think of plenty of ways you can make them interesting

#

But they mainly include ripping them away from the basic mission structure

#

The most meaningful thing a brainwashed child soldier can do is make their own choices

#

But like, obviously if you have them retire and express interest in anything beyond shooting aliens to death

#

Some Halo fans just aren't gonna accept that

#

If you make a story this huge turning point in a character's life, you can't have them just return to the status quo same as before

#

But at the same time, if it's not a turning point, why are we even watching

#

Best answer probably comes from Infinite, where Chief may not change a ton, but he does inspire change in the Pilot

#

It may be another Tuesday for Chief, but for at least one of the main trio, that was the most important six hours of his life

rugged cobalt
orchid kettle
#

original character

rugged cobalt
#

Like ur player?

orchid kettle
#

As in a fan fiction

exotic pulsar
#

We know chief is compassionate towards regular humans, just up until Halo 4 he had difficulty showing that.

rugged cobalt
#

Ah

exotic pulsar
#

I mean besides Johnson who else had he back then showed any actual like remote human compassion for?

orchid kettle
exotic pulsar
#

By ONI Standards they lack humanity because of what Halsey did to them. That at their core the 2's are just broken mindless killing machines.

rugged cobalt
orchid kettle
exotic pulsar
#

Yeah, RIP Jenkins. Poor one out for the homie.

orchid kettle
#

Because he's pretty clearly torn up at the idea that Cortana may be dying from the word go

#

and he defends her even against a superior officer

#

I dunno, that's not very machine-like to me

exotic pulsar
#

That's because he regards Cortana as part of his little Spartan family. Since reach the two have been together since the word go.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah but from his perspective, that's been a few months

empty bloom
# exotic pulsar Yeah, RIP Jenkins. Poor one out for the homie.

What mostly sucks for Jenkins is that he has to go through it all "Alive", but the thing is, getting infected by the flood at all subjects you to a waking nightmare. It's worse because he can 'snap out of it' (Which I wouldn't mind being slightly retconned into being intentional in some way, in order to engender a thought of 'maybe we can save them!', which would fit the flood's theme of being way smarter than the games and gameplay portray)

orchid kettle
#

All the Bungie Halo games take place within the same 4-5 month period lol

empty bloom
#

Make a combat form host think he sometimes has control until he gets to a major medical facility, and then finish that takeover.

#

Bam, free hospital of infected.

orchid kettle
#

Like, all things considered, Chief is very attached to a hologram gf he's met only relatively recently

exotic pulsar
#

Honestly it's probably because cortana is connected to halsey basically his surrogate mom

orchid kettle
#

Which is fine, you can bond with people quickly, its not all about time

#

But like I said, I just don't see how Chief is broken like Halo 4 claims

empty bloom
#

I mean, compared to other IIs, I would say he is.

orchid kettle
#

Or for that matter how he's fixed by the end

empty bloom
#

But mostly in the way that he's got this weirdly stilted philosophy and mannerism towards normal people that other IIs seem to have gotten over.

exotic pulsar
#

ONI quotes "lack of social skills" orsomething in the intro.

empty bloom
#

It's amusing to me because having a lack of social skills tends to make you an awful NCO.

exotic pulsar
#

I can't remember exactly.

orchid kettle
#

He's not the most talkative or expressive guy ever, sure

#

But that just makes him seem awkward

#

not so much broken

#

He's just not cold and detached

empty bloom
#

Like, yeah, Chief can lead people to kill things, but the other jobs of NCO-dom are mostly cribbed from writers who've never served in the Military and think NCOs are these weird quiet 'leader' dudes.

orchid kettle
#

bro clearly loves the vtuber in his brain

empty bloom
#

Honestly? I've had NCO's who loved VTubers.

exotic pulsar
#

"Records show Spartans routinely exhibited mildly sociopathic tendencies, difficulty with socialization. Furthermore..." from the intro.

empty bloom
#

So maybe his whole paycheck just goes towards Cortana's Patreon.

#

Or is it another site now?

orchid kettle
#

There's a reason Show Don't Tell is a common saying in regards to storytelling

#

Im told Chief is broken

#

Im not shown it in how he acts

exotic pulsar
#

"The records show efficient behavior operating in hazardous situations. I supplied the tools to maintain that efficiency." Halsey's counter point.

empty bloom
#

Socially, compared to other IIs, I'd say he's broken. But like, in the way that having a car that wobbles when you hit 45 due to the tires being poorly balanced is broken.

orchid kettle
empty bloom
#

You know what, I bet I can handle spicier food than Chief could.

#

Man's been crushing military rations for 25 years. Not a big flavor profile there.

wanton notch
#

I think the difference between Chief and the other IIs is that he formed a bond with his AI. And when he realized she was going downhill and would eventually go rampant, that bond was tested

orchid kettle
#

One sour skittle could take Chief out

wanton notch
#

In 4 we see him come to terms with that at the end, meanwhile trying to do everything in his power to slow/stop it

empty bloom
#

I do find it funny in Rubicon Protocol that the IV's interactions with their (NonVolitional) AI's is largely... Chilly. They almost seem pissed whenever the AI talks.

exotic pulsar
wanton notch
#

I said he has a stronger connection to his AI than other Spartans and their AI

empty bloom
#

Certainly a deeper shown connection.

wanton notch
#

He liked Samuel a lot, same with Fred/Linda, etc

orchid kettle
#

I honestly wouldn't be surprised

exotic pulsar
#

Back then spartans didn't get AI. At least not smart ones.

orchid kettle
#

You could argue that being literal head mates is a big reason why they got so attached so fast

empty bloom
#

I still find it funny that a lot of this is based off of terrible advice for a Spartan who never became an actual officer.

#

Well, a commissioned officer.

exotic pulsar
#

Honestly I just think cortanas wit and sass just meshed well with chiefs ever on stoicism.

empty bloom
#

The guy basically got told once when he was young to build a shell, and just built it up until he can't actually talk with people very well.

#

Like, you shouldn't actually build a shell like that as a leader.

wanton notch
#

I don't think Spartans actually acted as military officers though, did they? They were always sort of on their own mission

orchid kettle
wanton notch
#

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read all the books

empty bloom
#

It's... Iffy.

orchid kettle
#

all they had is that one part of Fall of Reach where Chief screamed "No" when she died

wanton notch
#

They held rank but didn't actually lead

empty bloom
#

Well like, actual special forces don't put as big of a priority on rank

#

But the skills and knowledge that goes into rank is still vastly important, so you're still gonna have noncoms below officers and such.

#

Like, yeah, SrA Snuffy can still tell his Major "Yeah bro, you suck", but at the end of the day SrA Snuffy still lacks the experience and knowledge to get on Major Potato's case about leadership.

exotic pulsar
orchid kettle
#

She was deceased

#

she just got better later

vivid jay
#

If my liver or kidney got turned into chunky salsa i'd be dead too

empty bloom
#

Halo itself is very weird about ranks, because although Chief's an E9 he frequently has the role of someone who would be a mid-O.

exotic pulsar
empty bloom
#

And yeah, while a high E can take on the role of a mid-O IRL, that's usually because every one of the mid-O's got killed or otherwise incapacitated.

orchid kettle
#

You can be like, medically dead and be resuscitated

empty bloom
#

Johnson's fine for that because, well, his rank makes sense for his role, but Miranda's a naval officer who just had her ship hijacked from under her a month back-she shouldn't be in charge of a ground op, that'd be a marine officer's job.

exotic pulsar
#

At least she didn't go out like Grace. Taking a point blank shot from a brute shot and her entire midsection got vaporized. Explosives expert taken out by an explosive makes it an Ironic Death.

empty bloom
#

I so wish we'd ditch that joke.

#

It's not irony to die like that.

wanton notch
empty bloom
#

25 years.

#

They had been 'to war' for 25 years.

orchid kettle
#

Rally Point Omega

#

the marines are teleported to Lone Wolf

stoic hamlet
# empty bloom Halo itself is very *weird* about ranks, because although Chief's an E9 he frequ...

I do love how a lot of John’s Waypount blurbs and etc comment how he can command larger units and stuff.

But we’ve seen the exact opposite in every portrayal.

Like, he can command his Spartans, sure, but I’d want him anywhere but in charge of a regular platoon or higher.

And Silent Storm even comments that Spartans by their very nature shouldn’t have such high ranks because it would objectively be a negative and a waste of their skills.

But then you have everyone just… defer to chief for whatever reason, or Noble Team, or etc.

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

I don't even really understand why Halo has officers

#

I just listen to the voice in my head that says ALL UNITS

empty bloom
#

It's entirely possible to have a 1LT be borderline untouchable, role wise, to a Major in the same operational structure-it's rare, but it's not exactly unheard of. A lot of the rules, especially for the US Military the UNSC is based off of, prizes flexibility of tactical and strategic execution.

#

It's why the US Military was and is so damn effective-In wartime, rules give way to efficiency and intuition as needed. A more strict and unbreakable doctrine slows reaction and can lead to further wastes, while showing trust in your professionals and their intuition goes a long way.

#

Like, as an NCO, I'm encouraged by the rules of my position to barter, steal and scrounge solutions from local deposits of equipment, sometimes in ways that might be extralegal if we're that deep in the mud.

#

(Mechanic)

#

Sure, other nations do that too, but I am encouraged to do this in writing.

orchid kettle
#

I still find it funny how according to the Spartan Field Manual, there is apparently no non-combat related MOS in the Marines

#

because AI does everything that isn't personally shooting an alien

empty bloom
#

Someone read "Every marine is a rifleman" and took it seriously.

orchid kettle
#

Every marine is an MA5 man

#

god bless america

stoic hamlet
# empty bloom It's *entirely* possible to have a 1LT be borderline untouchable, role wise, to ...

Sure, but that’s not what I’m referring to, necessarily.

There’s a weird sort of disconnect between what we’re told John can do, what he should do, and what he actually does.

It ties back into the hero worship stuff.

The games claim it’s a thing.

The marketing for the games claim it’s a thing.

But pretty well every book and extra expanded media shows the opposite. Spartans are an “other”, an anomaly, even something to be feared. They’re a discomforting presence to be around and they don’t really demonstrate any real leadership qualities except maybe Kurt but that’s just basic empathy

empty bloom
#

Ah

#

Yeah, even Rubicon kinda shows that off.

#

The IVs in that are efficient, ruthless, downright unpleasant, because they're so mission-focused that they literally tell marines to bunker down while they go get stuff done.

#

Sure, Kovan trusted Murphy to not get killed while she was gone, but Kovan and Stone would both dissappear for days at a time to do things.

orchid kettle
#

In a gameplay sense, you could just argue it's because stealing a bunch of marines and turning them into your personal lackeys is fun

stoic hamlet
#

Like, we always hear “John’s such a good leader and he inspires everyone he’s around”

But like, he thought Kurt wasn’t effective because he talked to his assigned maintenance team.

orchid kettle
#

after all you're the player, nobody is ever doing anything more important than what you're doing

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
#

Yeah.

empty bloom
#

That's just freaking goofy.

#

It's been a long time since I read that book, mind, but that's just... Dumb.

orchid kettle
#

I dunno if he thought Kurt was worse

empty bloom
#

Like, you literally have nothing to do but gain from being nice to people.

orchid kettle
#

I think it was just him being uneasy about it

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

Modern Warfare 2.

#

Well

#

The US missions at least

#

The '09 one of course

orchid kettle
#

They exist for your convenience, which is why they let you steal whatever you want from their lil baby hands

stoic hamlet
#

To an extent but Fall of Man is even more well done.

Instead of “Ramirez, take that burger town!”

It’s “Captain Buckler, Task Five needs time to wire tower bridge for detonation. Set up a defensive posture and hold the line.”

“Acknowledged command. A Company, stand to! It’s our turn to hold back the hordes!”

And you as the player are just… part of A company.

It’s not until everyone else is dead that the player character is finally acknowledged as existing because for all intents and purposes you’re just another soldier on the ground.

#

And it’s awesome

empty bloom
#

4-ish

#

It really ends up being like 20 guys because like half the team is redshirts

#

I get what you mean though.

#

Really, not every guy in the squad's gonna get the comm, it'd usually be Sergeant whatever his name was, I forgot.

stoic hamlet
#

True, but even when the player character is directly referenced and told to do something (and you’re with others) it’s always framed as you being told to do something alongside others.

Like, you’re acknowledged but only on the frame of the rest of the squad.

#

Fall of Man does a great job with that. Really

Though I suppose it helps that most of the mission cutscenes are maps with units listed and avenues of advance, and etc.

#

But yeah, instead of say, Miranda or Johnson or Hood or whoever giving the chief orders and everyone else “backing him up”, it’s company and platoon officers giving the orders to their subordinates that you just happen to be.

empty bloom
#

Too bad you play as JOHN SUPERSOLDIERMAN

#

The most important member of the human resistance.

stoic hamlet
#

The best example I can think of for what I mean is in…Manchester.

Part of the final set piece battle has you fighting in the middle of a large roundabout, human troops on one side, chimeran on the other.

At a certain point, if you kill enough your human allies begin to advance into the centre roundabout, but the game’s voice lines treat it as just the unit advancing, not specifically because you did anything.

It’s all about the illusion.

orchid kettle
#

I mean, I don't really mind that Halo isn't like that

empty bloom
#

It's weird that it does it even in ODST, though.

#

Like how everyone's all like WHOA IT'S DUTCH

stoic hamlet
#

It was Manchester, here’s the transcript, to show what I mean:

Captain Mitchell: “This standoff won't last! We're taking that supply truck! Braddock, you've got right flank! Go!”

Braddock: [To his squad members] “Now follow me!” [To Mitchell] “Yes Sir!”

When pressing forward.

Captain Mitchell: “Press forward! Bowling, take your squad to the centre. Hold that ground!”

Bowling: “Yes, sir!”

Obviously Halo’s a different game, tonally, but it does help sell the idea of you being smaller than everything.

orchid kettle
#

dude apparently gets around

empty bloom
#

Also when they talk about how Mickey is an 'artist with high explosives' but like... You gave him a tank

#

Of course he's gonna kill people with that

stoic hamlet
orchid kettle
#

Chief kinda just steals that tank in Assault on the Control Room now that I think about it

empty bloom
#

He uses his rockets, if you want, at that point in the mission, once.

#

Otherwise it's all tank.

orchid kettle
#

its why the whole GameCube goes kaboom at the end

empty bloom
#

No, that was mostly the cops.

orchid kettle
#

i guess so

empty bloom
#

Like the guy who 'put enough charges in this shaft to blow this building twice'

orchid kettle
#

but yeah, Mickey is more notable for being a pilot than a demo man

#

but designated pilot isn't really a normal thing in an odst squad

empty bloom
#

I mean we know he's a bad demoman because he never sat with us and discussed it, so

orchid kettle
#

even if its a useful trait narratively for a character to have

#

To be fair to Mickey tho, ODST is a 3-4 hour game and he's probably got the least focus out of anyone in Alpha-Nine

stoic hamlet
#

He does only have one mission.

orchid kettle
#

Outside of gameplay, Romeo snipes one engineer in a cutscene

stoic hamlet
#

I guess Romeo does as well, but he’s on screen more.

#

Well he does shoot at banshees (and miss) and at the chieftain (and miss)

orchid kettle
#

whats really weird about Mickey is that he's described as a dare devil

#

but he mainly complains whenever somebody asks him to do anything dangerous

#

he whines a lot

#

in my head, he's the group wiener baby

stoic hamlet
#

On the topic of Mickey and the tank… why’d he get in the tank, again?

Like, I know gameplay… but surely the marine already in it was a better, more experienced operator.

orchid kettle
#

they had a spare luckily

#

you apparently need a specialized neural lace to mind meld with vehicles

#

and I guess Mickey just had that upgrade...?

#

It could honestly be the case that if a normie marine who isn't the authorized operator of a tank just wouldn't be able to start it

#

while odsts and spartans get admin privileges for everything

stoic hamlet
orchid kettle
#

because naturally Rookie or Buck can hop in a tank themselves later in Coastal Highway

empty bloom
#

That'd be... Really weird. It just being a tank is usually enough for like 90% of people to not know how to start it.

#

You'd think there'd at least be like, a 'maintenance' mode for driving it.

orchid kettle
#

maybe Mickey is one of those nerds with a super expensive sim setup

empty bloom
#

So anyways this is why Mickey's level should've been a Hornet level

orchid kettle
#

he plays war thunder and reads all the classified documents

empty bloom
#

Funny thing about most of those classified documents is that it's usually just surface level stuff

#

It's nothing super important, just like, operation guides.

#

Lmao

exotic pulsar
#

TBH I get why they use weapons on hunters, but realistically couldn't any spartan kill a hunter just by getting behind and yanking the lekgolo out of it? Though honestly planting agrenade inside seems like the better option.

versed helm
#

So Uhhh Does The Oni do some Extra Judicial Liquidations on Some Colonial Settlements

#

Like The NKVD

orchid kettle
#

ye

versed helm
#

Any Occurrences

empty bloom
#

It's safer to kill them the old fashioned way.

orchid kettle
#

Hunt the Truth season 2 begins with ODSTs mowing down protesters who were getting a lil too uppity

#

and they're there to recover an ONI agent, so I assume ONI sent them

sonic lagoon
#

That reminds me of a lot of events from the 1870s-1970s in the US.

dusk jetty
sonic lagoon
ionic crest
#

Hey everyone!

#

I am a bit confused on some lore and I was wondering if someone could clarify

#

I have played through the MCC, halo 5, and halo infinite

#

What happened to the guardians between halo 5 and halo infinite?

carmine sleet
#

When Cortana died to prevent Atriox from having Zeta Halo, the Guardians were shut down

ionic crest
#

Ok. But how did Atrioxs find Zeta halo?

#

Same with the infinity?

#

Another question I had is why didn’t Cortana try to use the guardians, the warden, and the forunner soldiers (like the big laser cannons, dog things, etc) to defend herself?

dusk jetty
ionic crest
carmine sleet
#

Humanity has known where Zeta is since 2555 if I remember correctly

dusk jetty
#

Humanity has the location of all the rings I think

ionic crest
#

I also would like to ask how did lock and chief get back to Halsey? I understand it was in a pelican but I assume genesis was like the Ark, VERY far away being an understatement.

#

Also if humanity did, why would they go to a ring? Somewhere with forunner technology known to be there. (Cause it’s a ring)

carmine sleet
carmine sleet
ionic crest
carmine sleet
#

They had research sites on Zeta but the Banished likely ruined them

carmine sleet
ionic crest
#

Hmm. Thank you for helping me understand for now I guess. I’m confused on other stuff but I’ll try to figure things out further.

dense falcon
#

Genesis is a planet within our galaxy

ionic crest
#

Also when I said what happened to Genesis, I mean why not work with the monitor there?

dense falcon
#

Can you reformulate your question? I don't understand.

#

(Totally sounded like a bot there 🤖)

ionic crest
#

Ok. So the monitor on Genesis, the one you work with as Lock, wants to help humanity and stop Cortana. She helps you get the Master chief and according to previous answers, helped them return to Halsey. So why not keep working with her on Genesis? After all, the monitor had stated Cortana had disconnected herself from the Genesis systems into a guardian.

#

I don’t mean to sound like a bot lol, I am just kinda confused without trying to seem like a schematically “that guy.”

dense falcon
#

Oh no, I said I sounded like a bot

ionic crest
#

Oh my bad, lol.

dense falcon
#

As for your question, Cortana disconnected herself from Genesis, but I believe there was an army of Armigers still left there. Possibly to defend the Domain and whatnot. It's narrated in the Halo: Bad Blood book, starring Spartan Edward Buck.

ionic crest
#

Side note, with this in mind, it would make sense if the humans tried to remove Cortana and she sacrificed herself to stop them from having guardians, but how would Atriox hack Zeta halo?

dense falcon
#

The book fills the gap between Genesis -> Sanghelios, and Sanghelios -> Infinity. And while I don't remember the exact details, I do remember Blue Team and Osiris had to get out blasting.

ionic crest
#

Ah I don’t own any books. I am a newer fan but love the lore.

#

(Still wish the flood would come back and it was a 3 way fight for Zeta Halo)

dense falcon
#

The books are a great source of info and entertainment for a lore fan

ionic crest
#

Also is it me, or did halo infinite feel like it wasted a lot of chechovs guns?

#

I know it’s kinda opinionated. But I’d like to the rest of you out.

dense falcon
#

The endless do seem like an empty enemy

ionic crest
#

And the endless mentioned another, greater threat that isn’t the flood, right?

#

I might be mistaken. But why include them at all?

#

Also the fact that Atriox didn’t die and has a ton of gift cards with a ton of endlesses he can redeem is kinda weird.

#

and before you bring it up, I know this probably an official name for those “prison cards” that housed all those species and even the secret flood infection form, but I like to call them gift cards

carmine sleet
#

Granted there's also hints at the Endless being much more dangerous due to Harbinger directly quoting the Gravemind

dense falcon
#

That happened?

carmine sleet
#

It's in the audio logs and Rubicon Protocol

#

She specifically quotes "Now I shall talk and you shall listen"

#

Personally, I kinda hope it's a case of Gravemind learning that phrase from a Xalanyn poet he consumed, as it's been alluded that they've assimilated multiple poets but my guess is that it's not gonna be that

meager pier
#

I think the likely case is the Endless are either servants to the Precursors, or Precursors themselves, as the encyclopedia brings up that they're attuned to Living Time itself to an extent

#

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's likely a duck

runic wharf
#

It is almost certain that they are Precursors

#

The Endless

  1. Exert presence in the exact same way as the Gravemind and the Primordial, as seen in vivid detail in Rubicon Protocol (do not recommend)
  2. Have connection to neural physics/living time as seen by the Precursor dust in Outcasts, the Flood in the Flood-Forerunner war, and the vague descriptions of the Precursors in the Forerunner saga
  3. Are ‘Without Crime’ but ‘Punished’ by the Forerunners, viewed as a tremendous threat (Matches exactly what happened against the Precursors)
  4. The peculiar shape they hold is not necessarily contrary to the Precursors, as they have definitively taken vastly different forms By Design across the cosmos
  5. Their survival of the Halo Array matches the survival of the Flood, who were only ‘cleansed’ in their thinner, dormant state-The express goal of the rings Was to put them in such a state and eliminate their capability as a threat
#

Per Halopedia,
Immediately after the firing, the Flood was neutralized. Flood and sentient lifeforms on planets that had been seeded with solute beforehand were disintegrated.[12] Forms in starships and non-soluted sites were killed but not melted, their bodies remaining but their nervous systems irreparably destroyed. The remaining Flood spores and combat forms that were left were taken to the Halos and other sites for study, in hopes that a cure could be found should the Flood ever return.[13] The ongoing space battle of the Forerunners and the Flood, the Battle of the Maginot Sphere, had its order completely reversed. Mendicant Bias' Flood-controlled fleet had been fighting with Offensive's Forerunner-and-mechanical fleet, but within moments the rogue AI suddenly found itself with ships without any living crew. Offensive used Mendicant's momentary confusion to gain the upper hand, commanding his remaining ships directly and destroying the majority of the Flood's fleet in under 90 seconds. Mendicant was subsequently captured and imprisoned at Installation 00.[14]

#

The Flood’s Immediate reaction was the cessation of nerve functions and connection to Neural Physics, but the fact that the biomass remained and the spores and combat forms remained meant that, like the Endless, The Halo Arrays could not, and did not, render the Precursor descendent species extinct

#

If, in spite of all of this evidence Plus the Forerunner whispers + logs, and the allusion to things older than the Forerunners, Isn’t leading to the Precursors, then the narrative with the Endless is really silly

#

But it is highly, highly unlikely that 343i is helming the narrative in such a path given the overwhelming focus in Halo 4, Infinite, and the expanded media, on the Forerunners and Precursors

dense falcon
#

Wait, if the corpses remain, then what's happening in this terminal?

image.png
runic wharf
#

Such is addressed above as well

dusk jetty
runic wharf
# dusk jetty What’s wrong with rubicon? I liked it a lot

Short answer, it invokes the holocaust in particular, and industrial genocide in general, for zero story, game-related, logical, or otherwise reasonable sense. It is brought in to make things into a dark and nightmarish setting, but in doing so turns the Banished into cartoonishly evil people that gas their enemies and dispose of them in mass graves because 😵‍💫 they’re so quirky

empty bloom
#

I think it's more about casual cruelty than real world connections, just poorly thought out.

#

The rest of the book is fine. It's not like the Banished were upstanding citizens in the first place. More than one of their component bands engage in chattel slavery, for example.

#

(Bassus' Pack, specifically)

runic wharf
#

If it had been intended as casual cruelty, the intense industrialization and specific use of a human ‘filterer’ shouldn’t have been done

#

And do not get my wrong, Banished are tremendously awful without it

#

As a matter of fact, that is part of what makes this so incredibly frustrating

empty bloom
#

Not saying I think the scene is good. I think it was poorly thought out and shouldn't have been a thing, especially since we see rando marines all the time.

#

A selection where half are reutilized as rations would make more sense.

runic wharf
#

Definitely.

runic wharf
#

We have stomping on the heels of a fuss in universe already, no?

#

Why not have a Jiralhanae warpack lean into it

#

Instead, we get… Whatever it is

empty bloom
#

Especially since anthropophagy is already in the book.

#

It's what the brutes and jackals were hunting for in the scene when Spartan Stone kills one with an axe.

#

They were planning on eating the Zeta survivors.

runic wharf
#

Yeah

#

A good example of later casual cruelty is Jega cutting his human tool in half after use

#

That is where it is done well, and it fits

#

The issue is that the book focuses so much on Lucas Browning (He deserves it as a character) that the emotional and psychological thrust of the entire processing is

#

Far reaching in ramifications for the book

empty bloom
#

I still prefer to believe that the doctor in that scene was enslaved.

runic wharf
#

The human?

empty bloom
#

It makes more sense given the Packs that Escharum allies himself most closely to.

#

Yeah.

runic wharf
#

I can see that, yeah

empty bloom
#

That's Bassus' entire deal, dealing in human slaves

#

That's what the Ravaged Tusks are specifically known for

runic wharf
#

Yeah, I know

empty bloom
#

Yep

#

I wonder if the Ravaged Tusks livery is gold and crimson, or if Bassus is just special. Gilded excess would make sense for a Pack like that.

runic wharf
#

Its a bit whack, given that humans make rather poor slaves in terms of sustainment compared to Unggoy-But I imagine Methane supply chain may be a driving cause for such

#

Primitive accumulation with space age technology, yippee!

empty bloom
#

Well, I imagine both are slaved, Grunts just have a higher chance of being accepted as 'better' and less likely to, well, y'know, constantly crave stabbing the slavers in the back.

#

IIRC the blue grunts are grunt conscripts, specifically.

runic wharf
#

Honestly, I would much prefer to see slavery approached with more depth to it than it is right now-Kig-Yar and Jiralhanae both seizing humans because they shrimply are cheap labor, and they have no genuine civilization to organize production on (Outside of Eayn for Kig-Yar), Sangheili taking very feudal relations with their property (With indenturing, serfdom, etc. being more common than straight chattelage), and humans just keeping up the good ol’ corporate ‘You are here until you die, Congrats! Make us money :)’

#

It has Almost had such nuance put in

#

But the relations of how ‘civilian’ life is gets understated in halo often

empty bloom
#

You mostly see civilian perspectives from an 'after the end' perspective.

#

Or an 'after the start of the end'.

#

The closest you get to an undisturbed civilian perspective is postwar glass miners on Meridian, which is fascinating, but it's still heavily focused on the war's after effects.

runic wharf
#

I think for Sanghelios, you get that a bit with Thursday war and the Unggoy field hand
Kig-Yar, all you get is Venezia and some whacky trader characters

#

Jiralhanae have had no civilian life documented afaik, which is

#

Something

empty bloom
#

I kinda headcanon them as a supersoldier project gone awry.

#

Because I feel like that makes the most sense for their behavior.

runic wharf
#

Proto-Sharqoi when 345?

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Though, that said, Legends does have 1337 facing a very Jiralhanae-like Sharqoi

#

😆

empty bloom
#

Well, less the like the Sharqoi and more, the only noteworthy survivors of the Jiralhanae race that were left in the aftermath of their nuclear exchange were likely the 'supersoldiers' I refer to. They might have already been rather brutal, but nothing to the degree that they were when they joined the Covenant.

Fast breeding, durable, Gamma-style pain response, strong enough to lift (though not immediately overpower) a fully power armored Spartan II?

#

I'm feeling like the brutes were kind of whatever counted as a last ditch 'supersoldier' project by the original brutes, who promptly outcompeted their originals after the nuclear exchange and developed, albeit unsustainably, until the Covenant basically solved the sustainability problem for them.

runic wharf
#

Yeahhhh… They really easily could be such

empty bloom
#

The brutes managed to depopulate the majority of large animals in the vicinity of the silent auditorium in a matter of months. That's not even close to a sustainable living behavior. The Banished don't farm, they don't sustain, they only take and take.

#

The Covenant may have given them a religion, but what it provided that the brutes needed was an excuse.

last anchor
#

The Brutes accepted the Covenants religion because it was a way out of their current situation.
As they'd kind of just nuked themselves nearly to the stone age

meager pier
#

Would you like to see the Banished utilize Sharqoi in future games?

carmine sleet
carmine sleet
unique rune
#

I feel like they wouldn’t add much to the games anyway. Like their entire gimmick is that they’re bullet sponges.

carmine sleet
#

Are we allowed to discuss that here? Pretty sure that's never been officially acknowledged

carmine sleet
meager pier
carmine sleet
#

I don't remember it in the artbook

runic wharf
#

Its non-canon anyways 🙂

carmine sleet
#

Pluton has always been a Brute

tribal trench
carmine sleet
#

Glad I was right on that

tribal trench
#

Sharqoi might be cool

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like large brutes

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or uhh

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smarter/tankier Gùta

carmine sleet
#

Oh I forgot about the Gùta even existing

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Like, they show up for one encounter which is easy to skip and never appear again

tribal trench
#

yup

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lol

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plus it only takes like

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2 sniper shots to kill them

meager pier
tribal trench
#

Was this from Digsite?

carmine sleet
# tribal trench 2 sniper shots to kill them

That too. If they showed up at a later point and attacked the Covenant on a mission like The Package because the Covenant had encroached upon a den of them or something, I'd likely have remembered them existing

tribal trench
#

yeah

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missed opportunity

meager pier
lucid gale
#

I want just remember that Grey Team blew up an entire planet of innocents

dusk jetty
#

They weren’t aware that the war had ended, as far as they knew, humanity was about to be destroyed. And the sanghelli probably killed glyke ten times over in the amount of humans they killed

sonic flame
#

If anyone wants to provide feed back I just released the first 2 chapters in my fan made fully voiced halo themed audio book. (2nd book in the series) 🙂

https://youtu.be/Yd5sCr8iGpg

runic wharf
#

Glyke was a tragedy, doesn’t make Grey team bad

lucid gale
#

Lmfao

empty bloom
#

They're the cause of a bad situation, but not bad people for it.

lucid gale
#

I love war crimes in halo

empty bloom
#

Biting my tongue on that one.

#

Anyways, the graver threat regarding Gray team was political fallout. I don't imagine Thel gained many brownie points with dissenting members of Sangheili's clans for being so light-handed over Glyke's destruction.

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

People always say that, and we know it happened, but it really doesn't justify letting bygones be bygones.

#

It's hard to think of a perfect metaphor for that one, but the bottom line is, it doesn't matter as much politically in terms of justification for Gray Team's actions that the Sangheili used to glass human worlds. It certainly makes it easier to forgive the out-of-the-loop Gray Team, of course, but it doesn't make what they did okay either.

#

It's very much easy to politically skew that into continued human-sangheili relation degradation, and I'm sure that anyone who learned about it who was against Thel tried.

stoic hamlet
#

Mhm. I’m just using it to conmen on the “bad people” thing.

People (er…aliens as well) are more complex than that.

empty bloom
#

Ah.

#

Yeah, end of the day, it's a planet of mostly noncombatants getting turned to outlines in peacetime. It's not a good look.

stoic hamlet
#

If you’re gonna call out Grey Team (as a fan, I mean) you gotta call out Thel.

Especially considering the circumstances.

lucid gale
dusk jetty
#

It’s a conundrum honestly

empty bloom
#

It doesn't matter if they know or not. Gray Team's consciousness of the war is irrelevant to the impact they had with the actions they made.

dusk jetty
#

Your race is about to go extinct, do you strike back with what you have, make a “last defiant stand” or do you refuse, and go quietly?

empty bloom
#

Ultimately, their defense is pleading "Whoopsie Daisy".

#

From their perspective, it's a justified kill, which is fine, but it doesn't make the job of people dealing with their problems any easier.

stoic hamlet
# empty bloom Yeah, end of the day, it's a planet of mostly noncombatants getting turned to ou...

A lot of people don’t understand how communications work in Halo, on that point.

It’s always been kind of iffy, but humanity didn’t have FTL comms until post war and only on certain ships/stations.

People assume Halo’s humanity is like Star Trek or Star Wars, I guess, where you can talk to anyone anywhere basically in real time.

But it’s more akin to the age of sail. If you want to get a message to someone, you need to basically physically send someone else with it. If it takes them 4 months, then that’s when the message recipient receives that message.

Etc

#

mind you I blame 343 and Bungie to an extent for this, as it’s a very understandable misconception

empty bloom
#

At the same time, I take an extremely realistic view of the interplanetary politics going on here. Like, yeah, there's no reasonable way to communicate that the war is over to Gray, but that is too convenient of an answer with a vaporware solution.

#

Glyke's still gone. Dusted.

#

And that's a lot of dead to answer for from what is, at worst, a neutral party, and you can't just leave that dog there.

#

Any would-be warlord rising against Arby worth their salt is pointing at Glyke and using that as evidence that humanity should be taken out like Xytan intended.

#

It doesn't matter that Gray didn't know, it's a convenient excuse for the UNSC, lie, degrade, deny.

lucid gale
#

My question is

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Where's arby

empty bloom
#

Still on Sanghelios.

#

Putting out his own fires.

dusk jetty
#

Anyways, I did finish rubicon protocol yesterday. I have to agree with what @runic wharf said which is the banished are portrayed as horrible despicable things, with… no real reason for it.

Yes the banished aren’t “good” but I mean, it’s making light of some very serious and somber themes, namely a specific historical event. Brownings story is ultimately probably the worst aspect of the book.

Browning is suffering, we get it. The harbinger is imposing yes, and she makes him go insane, or at least to the precipice of insanity, but Lucas never shows up again so it rings a little hollow.

The book also is disappointing in that it’s just opening more questions, to an already very question filled story of infinite. The book is not bad by far, in fact it is pretty good at showing humanity’s struggles on zeta.

My main problem is just basically more questions, brownings… plight and kind of lessening some horrid things for Portrayals of villains sake. Good for the most part, missed opportunity to really elevate the story of infinite.

empty bloom
#

Soup

dusk jetty
#

Could probably use some indents

lucid gale
#

Anyway

#

Why halo wars 2 ain't on steam

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

Same reason Halo 5 isn't on PC.

stoic hamlet
runic wharf
dusk jetty
#

It’s basically just

“This is why this thing is here in infinite. Also the banished are bad guys.”