lore-and-universe

[exotic pulsar]

Does anyone else miss how the Warthog sounded in 4? I wish they kept that sound for Infinite.

[empty bloom]

Any joe schmoe can learn how to shoot and load an M2 Browning with a minute or two of instruction. Properly using a gauss turret or reloading rocket tubes, that's a harder ask.

[orchid kettle]

Well I don't think the Hog is a new thing in the setting

[exotic pulsar]

The Hog is OLD.

[empty bloom]

It's been in service longer than the Maxim gun IRL.

The Ukrainians still use Maxim guns.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, a lot of the war-era stuff in Halo is crazy old in the setting

[exotic pulsar]

They literally said "forget armor, we are making this thing purely for speed!"

[empty bloom]

People who got all pissy about the AK make me laugh because of it, lmao

Because that's literally one of the last things I'd expect to stop getting made

We'll still be making AK's until the stars burn out

That an Armalite 15 derivatives

[orchid kettle]

To be fair-- it DID seem weird how the show only ever seemed to have ONE Assault Rifle prop

[empty bloom]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[orchid kettle]

Chief is legit the only guy who uses it

[empty bloom]

I really need to focus on my homework, oh my god

[orchid kettle]

otherwise the Marines are using BRs

[exotic pulsar]

When the world has naturally ran it's course, the only things remaining in production are going to be the AK, the M1911, M2 Browning, and the BUFF.

[dusty ferry]

The show put all the budget into the rubble

[orchid kettle]

and we know plenty of MA5 props exist

Because Forward Unto Dawn

[dusty ferry]

That’s why everything else was weird

[empty bloom]

Maybe they auctioned most of them off?

[dusty ferry]

Like most movies reasonably would?

[exotic pulsar]

Like seriously, the BUFF is getting new engines.

Anyways, I just like my little speed demon of a Jeep. Like, if an actual car company paired up with 343 and decided to mass produce some as a promotion I would buy one in a heartbeat and I don't even drive.

The first thing they would need to solve though is how to make it run on pure H2O.

Yeah, the Warthog RUNS on water.

[dusty ferry]

I’d take a hydrogen fuel cell until we have magic water reactor

[exotic pulsar]

Like dude, fuel crisis SOLVED if we figured that out IRL.

As the only byproduct I believe would be steam?

Actually funny enough, I don't think the Warthog even has a muffler.

[orchid kettle]

the warthog exhaust is safe

its just water

The Cyclops may run on water or something as well

I dunno 343 had a page on Waypoint breaking down the Cyclops

and now the page is defunct

[exotic pulsar]

Also, I wish we had the Spiker instead of the Mangler. We already had the Mauler why did we need the Mangler?

[orchid kettle]

Mangler is cooler function-wise

but you could argue there's no reason you couldn't just have a semi-auto spiker

[dusty ferry]

Unless it’s like, an aircraft or tank, or mech thing, I think it’s basically all water

[exotic pulsar]

Also the Plasma Caster is pretty much the Ravager but better at it's job at area denial.

[dusty ferry]

Well, you see, ravages is Brutey

Caster isn’t

[exotic pulsar]

I just don't like the Ravager. I get the concept of a area denial weapon but at least for me I can never get a kill with it and I do honestly try with it.

[dusty ferry]

You have to stab then shoot people

I know, it’s explosive so you don’t really want to do that, but it’s the only way I know to consistently get it to work

[exotic pulsar]

They do that too with the mangler as well. Except it's shoot then stab.

IDK, I just felt like the Mangler, Ravager and Skewer could have been replaced with better options.

I would also like more Forerunner weapons. Maybe something similar to the Lightrifle from Halo 4.

[empty bloom]

Or shoot then stab

Both work

[exotic pulsar]

Anyways, still wish they had brought back the Spiker. It was an interestng weapon concept.

[scenic blade]

The problem with those weapons is that they're to situation specific. The mangler is for close range, you couldn't snipe anyone with it. The ravager is for close to mid range, though it's hard to kill anyone with it cuz the splash damage of the regular shot is terrible and it's only good for shields. And the ravager unbound is absolute trash. With the skewer, I feel like they could have made it a tad more like the Spartan laser and not made the round arch. I feel like a weapon firing a round at that speed should arch down that fast.

[exotic pulsar]

From what I remember isn't the ammo for the Skewer just a giant tungstun rod?

As if that is true that would explain why it has that bullet drop. Tungstun is rather heavy.

Still, I honestly believe they should have been replaced with something better. We already had the Mauler that does the same thing as the Mangler so why make another weapon? The Plasma Caster does the Ravagers role better even if it's main role is to weaken enemy lines and entrenched positions, especially those augmented by stationary weapons. The Banished even have their own plasma casters.

Also look at all the cool weapons the Banished got that they made themselves. They for their own version of the Spiker and Brute Shot. Those should have been added.

[ruby canopy]

Not a popular opinion, but I think the ravager is pretty good. 2 shots kill, or 1 shot melee, or 1 shot and switch to precision weapon to finish quick

[last anchor]

And eventually someone will realize you can combine the two of them and load a BUFF's bomb bays with nothing but hundreds of Ma Duce's

Because who needs precision bombing or even carpet bombing when you can simply erase a target in a hail of .50 BMG

[ruby canopy]

The upgraded ravager is trash though. That needs to be revamped or something, because it feels useless

[last anchor]

Is tungston ferromagnetic? If not it cant be tungston cause the Skewer is basically railgun.
Similar to how the Spiker operates (same principle, really short acceleration range tho)

[exotic pulsar]

Oh trust me I used it. The overcharge just....bounces around.

[last anchor]

It was intented for campaign, not for multiplayer, so that makes sense.
On the other side you have stuff like the STriker Sidekick which is stupid broken.

[exotic pulsar]

The Ravager is literally the worst weapon. Of all time.

The Plasma Caster does a better job at it's role and it's not even designed for area denial.

[last anchor]

It works a lot better in lore than it does in game, obviously.

[unique rune]

Yeah I mean
all of these traits are a primarily a gameplay thing

The Skewer has significant projectile drop to balance out its ability to instantly kill most lighter targets and significantly damage heavier ones

The Plasma Caster seems “better” than the Ravager because Halo 5’s entire weapon sandbox is pretty lethal while Infinite tones things down to put more focus on weapon function

And the former’s traits are pretty much split between the Cindershot and Ravager

[last anchor]

The Mangler presumably doesnt have nearly as nasty a drop as it does in game either.

Thats also for balance reasons because its basically supposed to be a more skillful pistol

[unique rune]

If it had no projectile drop it’d basically just be retreading some of the issues CE’s Magnum caused

[sly wave]

CEs pistol had no issues
It was perfection

All i shall say, gn folks

[meager pier]

I may be off my rocker, but does anyone else feel that Infinite may be the beginning of the end of the story, with the introduction of the Endless, likely either being servants to the Precursors, or are Precursors themselves

[carmine sleet]

I don't get that feeling from Infinite

I got the feeling that it was the first chapter of a new saga

[unique rune]

Every time I read the words “Flood” and “Precursors” increasingly makes me wish it was the end

[last anchor]

"Something else to deal with please

[carmine sleet]

I hope the Endless are just their own thing, with minimal ties to the Precursors at most

[meager pier]

With the several allusions and hints to their connection, I'd say their relation is 90%
Feels like if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..

[orchid kettle]

It's kinda the problem with peeling back the curtain and revealing God

For video game logic dictates we must kill God

[meager pier]

Harbinger quoting Gravemind directly (even in the same cadence), driving Lucas Browning crazy just from speaking, the connection searching for the Endless at the end is said to be sentient, Cortana and Pyre say that the Endless are worse than the Flood (nothing can be worse than the Flood unless it's Precursor related), the encyclopedia mentions that they're attuned to Living Time itself

Just really feels like they're prepping us for these bomshell revelations

@orchid kettle You can have these revelations in there, and still retain some mystery, and you can't really kill them, as they live, die, and evolve again as several lifeforms, and they seem to exist outside of space and time, so while we may fight their corporeal/3D forms, they can't ever truly be destroyed

[hot zodiac]

What if... "God" is already dead?

Or at least, as you knew "God" to be.

[meager pier]

@hot zodiac Huh?

[carmine sleet]

God is dead and we have killed him

Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent?

Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882

[meager pier]

I didn't expect us to go full Nietzsche 😆

[carmine sleet]

They used the quote in a really good scene in The Good Place

[empty bloom]

That plus the whole|| 'oh yeah the guardiankiller is precursor tech lmao' ||thing from Outcasts.

[meager pier]

||Feel bad for the native species on Netherop, caught in the craziness of this conflict||

[exotic pulsar]

Amen.

[exotic pulsar]

Unless the Endless are somehow immune to the Flood, I don’t see them as worse.

[meager pier]

I’m guessing they’re worse in the sense that they’re either another form of the Precursors or work for them

[exotic pulsar]

Remember, if you got a nervous system you are still susceptible to the flood. Even AI and tech are susceptible to them so you can’t just make a fully mechanical body and be immune.

Speaking of the Executors are actually canon in Halo. You know, the Chimera Armor Core. They are made to house AI to give them a physical form.

Apparently Sloan and his fragment of The Created have been busy.

[unique rune]

I still think the Endless being “worse” is more in a symbolic sense, not actually in terms of power scaling or whatever.

Because the only perspective that’s really described them as such is from Forerunner sourcing.

The Flood saying mean things about the Forerunners is one thing, considering it (they?) has plenty of reasons to manipulate the truth and bend things a little bit, but a society that was essentially an innocent observer to events, imprisoned and subjugated? Not a good look.
And if they’ve covered up one thing, who knows what other skeletons the Forerunners have got in their closet.

The risk presented by the Endless probably isn’t because of any physical or forceful threat to the universe, but moreso that maybe they’re living proof that everything the Forerunners have claimed is wrong. Dunno if 343 is actually willing to commit that much, but. Maybe we’ll see something.

[exotic pulsar]

Wrong about what exactly? About themselves?

If that’s the case haven’t they already admit that by now considering their machines can only be used by humans? A race they were once jealous of for gaining the mantle of responsibility?

I mean, they literally catalogued every race they could, fired the array to take themselves out and the flood. Then left their machines for the humans to find so they could learn from the Forerunners mistakes.

If that’s not an admission of them being wrong and of guilt, I don’t know what is.

[unique rune]

I mean I could probably think of something more coherent to say if I wasn’t running on like three hours of sleep at 4AM but my general point is that I don’t think the Endless being worse than the Flood is because they’re “stronger” or some vague powerscaling thing to that effect

Because quite frankly I think it’d be kind of a bland and underwhelming direction to take that in

And instead they have some knowledge that we don’t that could overturn the status quo of the Halo universe
Maybe humans weren’t supposed to be Reclaimers, maybe the entire idea of Reclaimers is nonsense from the beginning, idk
Or that the Forerunner version of the Mantle is just a pile of nonsense that they used to justify subjugating “inferior” races, which, sure, we as an audience pretty much already knew, but it’s quite far from common knowledge in the current period of the Halo universe

The Forerunners may have admitted fault when their backs were to the wall but their legacy is still pretty pervasive

And if I’m wrong then 343’s written themselves into another stupid narrative hole because dragging the Precursors into the modern Halo setting means nerfing the Precursors hardcore or mega-buffing every current faction for there to be any real stakes

[ruby canopy]

I feel a good reason they could be weakened, at least for now, is just so many years in not existing, or however you would put that

[orchid kettle]

I'm still partial to the idea that the Endless themselves don't really have bodies, and the individuals live on purely through idea

Kinda like how in MGSV, Venom has been brainwashed into thinking he's the real Big Boss, and his actions get folded into the broader legend of the man.

And something more messed up could be happening with Lucas Browning

Heck, the Forerunners themselves do this with imprinting or whatever it's called, where normally a parent implants their memory and dna into their child

Like Bornstellar and the Didact, where from then on, Bornstellar is just considered to be the same individual as the Librarian's husband

and I dunno, from a gameplay perspective, it sounds more fun if the Endless have a bunch of different body types

versus just being more Harbingers

[carmine sleet]

Well they confirmed the Harbinger is a member of the Xalanyn ruling class, so I would assume that Xalanyn like her aren't common

[dusk jetty]

It may be the beginning of the end for master chiefs story

I started to get that feeling closer to the end

“I forgive you, but most importantly I forgive myself.” Y’know.

And on the topic of the endless, I’m not sure what they are. I used to think they were simply a species the forerunners hadn’t cataloged and just panicked when they survived the halos firing, leading to their imprisonment. But now I’m not so sure. They share a lot of common ground with precursors, and if they are affiliated with them somehow, they would not be happy with the forerunners. Harbinger mentions the forerunners “lies” several times, lies being plural, which means that there’s multiple things she seeks to disprove.

There’s something about Zeta Halo we haven’t been told or figured out yet

[meager pier]

Do you think Chief should be the lead of the series until the end, or someone else should be allowed to become Chief’s successor?

[uneven maple]

i think, and im pretty sure ive read this before, but your spartan, y'know, the one you customise in multiplayer should be the lead... It's kinda corny but i rlly like it

[uneven maple]

after giving chief a good send-off

[carmine sleet]

If I recall, that was the plan, transition from Chief being the main protagonist to the player character, but we're just gonna have to wait and see if that happens

[meager pier]

Yeah, I remember Joe said that our Spartan’s role and importance would grow over time
I imagine they were considering going the route of the Destiny Guardian, but who knows now

[empty bloom]

Too bad it got axed.

[orchid kettle]

I dunno, the player character as the lead sounds pretty bland

Especially if they commit to the character being silent or near-silent

Rookie works in ODST because what you're supposed to be admiring is New Mombasa

[meager pier]

If our Spartan doesn't become the next lead, who would you to see take over?

[dusk jetty]

Jerome

He’s got the AI

[empty bloom]

Oh boy. Another flavorless AI-toting 2.

I'm sure that will be an extremely inventive change of guard.

Halo: Loud Calm, a Senior Chief story.

"In Halo Eternal, we plan to take Halo back to its roots and have a story situated around Jerome-092 coping with the loss of his stalwart AI companion Isabel after her betrayal of the NUNSC, and getting to know the new AI designed to stop Isabel's rampage, known as the shield. But rest assured, this will be a Senior Chief story at heart."

[stoic hamlet]

No more “franchise leads”, please.

Turn Halo into pre Fall of Cadia 40K, tell stories about the universe, use the depth and potential to widen the scope, not stifle it again.

[orchid kettle]

I dunno, I kinda feel like having big installments that move the universe further isn't a bad thing

[dusk jetty]

If we have to continue with the story I wouldn’t mind anyone really

[orchid kettle]

Halo's issue is mainly how the Bungie games were all centered on the Covenant War

but the 343 ones don't really have a central hook like that

At least, not one they've been willing to actually commit to

I like a lot of the lil stories Halo has done, but I kinda get that you can't run a franchise on Halo Evolutions alone

[surreal glen]

The Covenant War is done

That's why it's not central in the 343 era

[orchid kettle]

Im aware

I'm saying there's no real big overarching conflict attempting to fill its shoes

Or at least, there were attempts, but then they get executed minutes into the next game

I guess the Banished are doing the best so far since they got to be in two games and several books

They're obviously the most safe option, but I can see why the writers appreciate having evil aliens for the heroes to shoot

[sharp saddle]

Bring back didact and retcon that random comic

[boreal bane]

Unless they scrap Epitaph, that's not going to happen

[meager pier]

☝️

Epitaph is supposed to be the end of Didact’s story

[surreal glen]

Retconning is for bad writing and it ruins a series forever

No retcons in Halo pls thank you

[hot zodiac]

...lol

[empty bloom]

Keep black team dead. Expand on their death.

Show how badly the Didact smoked them.

[orchid kettle]

bring back my favorite spartan

sheila

[surreal glen]

I thougt Sheila was a tank

[meager pier]

1337 will become Chief’s successor!

[empty bloom]

Wow. That was stupid.

[meager pier]

The anime sounds did make me chuckle

[boreal bane]

Let's keep it server appropriate, thanks

[exotic pulsar]

Wish the Halo Infinite warthog was louder. The warthog was always rather loud even in CE. It should sound like a beast on the road.

[terse lava]

Speaking of the Didact, I do wonder if he'll have any impact to the universe in this "final appearence" of his. Seeing as he was met to be the main baddie of 343's games

[last anchor]

Heres hoping.

[empty bloom]

Y'know, come to think of it, it'd be perfectly possible for a Spartan to decide to coat their armor in razor wire.

I can't imagine Brutes would be as happy to give you a hug if you did.

[carmine sleet]

I kinda want to see that now

Like the Spartan is bored and wrap themself up in the barbed wire before an op

[last anchor]

"Have fun fighting me in close combat NOW, BK!"

[unique rune]

With all the knives apparently available to Spartans I feel like we’re already not too far off

[exotic pulsar]

They could have implemented him better tbh. He felt like another version of the gravemind as he had personal beef with the ancient humans and just placed it on modern humanity.

[pulsar stump]

yeah they could've done way better with the diadact

being this exiled dictator with a massive chip on his shoulder, being one of the few forerunners to survive the firing of the halo rings

[exotic pulsar]

Honestly wish we had a melee weapon for humans like a short sword or kukri that is made out of some metal ceramic hybrid material so it can actually block energy swords.

[pulsar stump]

it'd make traversing areas with a lot of foliage pretty hard, same with getting in vehicles, that padding wouldcrack pretty fast

[exotic pulsar]

Not to mention getting out of the armor.

[empty bloom]

If you're a Spartan, those limitations are practically childish.

And getting out of the armor just takes the removal of the razor wire. You'd already be removing your kit webbing, a major step in and of itself by comparison.

[pulsar stump]

Yeah fair point, speaking of getting out of the armor, they're not always gonna be in the razor wire, that would make interacting with other marines in pelicans kind of dangerous if they got bumped or something

[empty bloom]

That's the biggest issue I can find

[pulsar stump]

they'd probably be taking it off after combat or the mission

[empty bloom]

But general Spartan Doctrine post-Silent Storm also seems to acknowledge that Spartans are better off without marine support.

The idea being, IIs, IIIs, and IVs are all so significantly above the UNSC's regulars that operating together is a death sentence for the latter.

[exotic pulsar]

Yet, they had no choice during the halo events.

[pulsar stump]

but for major operations for example setting foot on the ark in halo 3, usually they'll bring out as much people as they can, and in situations like that, you absolutely do not want to risk any lives beyond neccesary

[exotic pulsar]

The whole Ark situation was an all hands on deck scenario like the Halos.

[pulsar stump]

and anyways during most combat, it would be better to avoid close range, although that would be less of an issue as enemies would probably refrain from guaranteeing themselves cuts all over

[exotic pulsar]

The fact that grunts before the rebellion were sent in mass without weapons was messed up.

[pulsar stump]

yeah, its always skimmed over, but how were they able to fight efficentley

[exotic pulsar]

Wave after wave of grunts. I believe they took out a UNSC base like that.

[pulsar stump]

if they were willing to give the jackals beam rifles, they weren't willing to increase enemy kills by giving them plasma pistols, and reduce grunt deaths, making for less grunts needing weapons and combat rated methane tanks

seems kind of weird

i kind of understand pushing them out in waves, since population isn't an issue, but still, you have to provide for those grunts in combat, more expensive than resedential grunts

[exotic pulsar]

They didn’t care until after the Grunt Rebellion because the Elites then saw them as worthy warriors instead of just canon fodder.

[pulsar stump]

i'm thinking more of the costs of using them as living pebbles, rather than one being able to take out multiple marines

[exotic pulsar]

As soon as the Grunts got hold of weapons and had a cause willing to die for they became a real pain in the side to control.

[pulsar stump]

giving them weapons kills 3 birds with one stone, grunts die less, less combat costs as less grunts are needed, grunt motivation goes up,

[pulsar stump]

Good point, yeah grunts did kickstart the human covenant war to my memory

[exotic pulsar]

On accident, as a grunt panicked and mauled a Marine to death.

[pulsar stump]

yeah that was it

[exotic pulsar]

Oh the irony. It was the one you think less likely to be aggressive that started it.

[pulsar stump]

yeah you'd think tarturaus/his dad, forgot his name lmao being at the meeting would be the cause

[exotic pulsar]

My money naturally would have been on the Brutes.

Before the rebellion Grunts were just expected to rush the enemy and kill them in melee.

[pulsar stump]

yeah although that was probably a mixed blessing in disguise as the human-covenant war lead to rapid human innovation

i do have a feeling the covenant wouldn't have fallen without it either

as the civil war was caused by the discovery of halo

and it's destruction

*its

as heretics were created by 343 guilty spark

and they got soon to be their greatest warrior by thel vadamee's punishment for halos destruction

[exotic pulsar]

If the covenant hadn’t released the flood the ring would not have needed to be destroyed.

[pulsar stump]

although they most likely would have attempted to fire the ring, probably using a human prisoner to activate it

[exotic pulsar]

TBH they would have won the battle at installation 04 if the flood wasn’t a factor due to attrition.

[pulsar stump]

yeah

anyways this has been a sick discusion but i gotta stop

[lofty silo]

So uh… Anders is dead??

Anyone know what’s up post HW2

[exotic pulsar]

What do you mean she's dead? She should still be on Installation 04C.

[carmine sleet]

She's not dead, last we see of her is that she's on Installation 09, face to face with a Guardian

[fleet cove]

Therefore either could be true?

[carmine sleet]

Not seeing what happened next does not mean she is dead

[unique rune]

Schrödinger's egghead

[fleet cove]

I'm saying since we don't know what happens it could be either

[orchid kettle]

I mean, yeah, she's obviously supposed to have been left in a pretty precarious situation

but I think ever since the backlash that came with killing Black Team off-screen, 343 has been hesitant to pull the trigger on established characters

There was outrage back in the Catalog days even where when asked what happened to Saber from GoO, Catalog said they were "officially" designated as KIA

It turned out to be some cheeky foreshadowing towards them becoming a super secret Ferret team for ONI, but man people were ready to riot.

[fleet cove]

I feel like if they kill main characters they should just do it on screen not off screen

[exotic pulsar]

Eh, still calling it Installation 4C.

[gusty star]

Why? It doesn’t make sense. That ring could’ve gone to any system. It wasn’t made specifically for the Soell System

[exotic pulsar]

@gusty star Installation 04C actually was supposed to head back to the Soell System but was intercepted and pulled out of slipspace by the Created.

[gusty star]

I don’t think you understand what I said. By the end of Halo Wars 2 it was supposed to head there, but it has been stated that the Ark keeps a ring in its center at all times because they can go to any system that needs a replacement

That’s why it’s not good to call it Installation 04C

[exotic pulsar]

I mean I guess but it was going back to where the original was before it was destroyed. Honestly I think the forerunners picked these spots as they gave the optimal coverage to take everything out in the galaxy when the array was fired.

[unique rune]

I just like to think of the numbers as serial numbers or something like a VIN

[orchid kettle]

I mean, to be fair, the one that's still in need of replacing is Installation 04

And unless a ring's control room is always in a snowy mountain range, Halo 3's last mission is pretty clearly supposed to evoke Assault on the Control Room

Implying that the new ring is meant as a copy of the original, which I also assume is why Cortana's Index from 04 can work

[empty bloom]

I imagine that if the Ark's systems could register frustration, the continuous disruption of specifically 04's coverage area would be incredibly frustrating to it.

[carmine sleet]

Tragic Solitude no doubt would be if they were still alive

[orchid kettle]

Just remembered that we fight Tartar sauce in Delta Halo's control room in Halo 2

and it's an entirely new location compared to 04's

so yeah, more evidence that "08" is just a copy of 04

[carmine sleet]

Have we seen the control room for 03 and 07 in anything?

[orchid kettle]

03, in Escalation

in the beloved Didact Chief rematch chapter

We only see the interior of 03's control room though, and it's just kinda the same circular shape as 04

except with walls instead of a cavernous abyss

[carmine sleet]

Ah, forgot about that

[empty bloom]

I know you see 05's

[orchid kettle]

They've been pretty cheeky with avoiding giving info on all the important facilities you'd expect to see on a Halo ring for 07

the Silent Cartographer is apparently actually Mendicant Bias's old core, we havent seen the Library

[hot zodiac]

Installation 08/04B was intended to be a copy of Installation 04, that was how the Ark's replacement ring function worked.

[empty bloom]

You basically only get to see the place where the funny hexapillars are made

And the construction office

And a courtroom

[hot zodiac]

As said, Halo Wars 2 established different.

[orchid kettle]

I kinda like the idea of the Harbinger being catalogued away in the Library or something like that

since it's not just the place where the Index is kept

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I'd love to see a version of the Library where the Banished just went 'screw it' and blew open the top to get to the index.

I like to think that the Banished and remaining UNSC forces elsewhere on the ring are locked in conflict at the library or the control room.

[orchid kettle]

They do sound like the most important places to secure

Apparently Cortana stole the Index for 07 as well at some point, but hey, the survivors and the Banished may not know that

[empty bloom]

... Come to think of it, if Cortana did what I'd figure she'd do and just go around securing all the ring's indexes (Some easier than others)...

That'd explain what happened to the original UNSC garrisons at the rings.

If she just popped in, nuked the ships out of orbit, took the keys, and dipped.

[orchid kettle]

I honestly wonder what's stopping the monitors from just fashioning a new Index like GS sounds he will do in Halo 3

like, if he knew Cortana still had the old 04 one, would he be forced to just sit by and let it sit in High Charity forever

[ruby canopy]

Maybe a new index gets made when the ring is finished creation

At least that’s what I always assumed

[orchid kettle]

or at some point, if the Index isn't on its respective ring, they're allowed to make a new one

or can Cortana just stash them all under a rock somewhere, and the Galaxy will never be threatened by the Halo rings again

[empty bloom]

Also, it's funny that 03's index is something you can see in 4, and it's just kinda vibing there on Ivanoff undefended.

[dusk jetty]

The cutscene for gravemind uses a model very similar to the model for 04’s control room in CE

[carmine sleet]

I love that detail honestly

[dusk jetty]

It’s not impossible to think that gravemind is in the control room and it was forced to be moved by the monitor or sub monitors (assuming 07’s hierarchy extends to other rings as well.)

[carmine sleet]

Like that whole room just being filled with Forerunner nicknacks that don't matter to the Ur-Didact because he wants his big scary laser beam back

[carmine sleet]

I believe Sub-Monitors is unique to 07

[empty bloom]

[empty bloom]

That and I'm surprised the explicitly fanatical Covenant remnant didn't try to nick the holy artifact.

Which, y'know

Woulda made a killer hook

But instead they decided Chief needed it to bluff the Didact in a comic

[carmine sleet]

Yeah...

I like to not think about Escalation

I do really like the idea of the ONI cleanup team finding the room and just going "Well, the Index is gone"

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I still think the easiest retcon would've been just having the Didact get 'digitized' by the composer's backwash when he fell in instead of that whole BS arc.

Then again, if I had the ability to go back and time and change one Halo game's story from the ground up, it'd be 4's.

[hot zodiac]

Yo... same.

[dusk jetty]

Not 5? Impressive

[empty bloom]

Because I actually think 5's story as a concept is way better. Even with a limp execution, I see nothing wrong with 5's story conceptually.

4 rides Chief's abilities a little too hard for my tastes, and I'd likely redesign how it goes with the benefit of hindsight to better support 5 in turn.

Honestly, I'd probably axe and rebuild the campaign starting from the second half of the first level to the end of the game. The only parts I'd keep would be Cortana's slow descent into rampancy, Requiem, Prometheans, Spartan IVs, the Infinity, and the Covenant Remnant.

In other words, if it first appeared in 4 and stuck around for 5, it stays. Everything else gets replaced.

[exotic pulsar]

All I know is, without the Flood being released by the Covenant there would have been no way for the UNSC to win due to attrition. It's whatever is left of the compliment of the Pillar of Autumn, verses the entire Fleet of Particular Justice. The UNSC would either have to blow up Halo anyways to deny the Covenant access, or use The Index as a bargaining chip and threaten to blow Halo up using the Autumn.

Without the Index, Halo can't be fired.

So Halo would just be a gun without a firing pin.

[hot zodiac]

I would argue the UNSC didn't win the battle for Installation 04, a few just survived.

[surreal glen]

They didn't, blowing up the Pillar of Autumn was a last resort to both destroy the ring and prevent the Flood from using it to fly to other worlds and infect them
Master Chief and the other survivors just barely escaped

[empty bloom]

The intended mission for 99% of the crew of the PoA was survive and get off world.

For them, that mission was a dismal failiure.

[exotic pulsar]

Semantics, but my point still stands. Without the Index, Halo can't be fired unless from The Ark. They could have used The Index as a bargaining chip to leave the system alive. The Covenant may have secured Halo, but the UNSC had the Index.

[empty bloom]

The Covenant would not be interested in bargaining.

Especially not with something like that.

(I know Uprising exists, shut up)

I imagine they'd likely play lip service at best.

[exotic pulsar]

Would they really be that stupid to risk the destruction of The Index if it was on a UNSC ship leaving Halo?

[hot zodiac]

The Flood couldn't have survived the end of Halo 3, a ring was fired that then caused a massive explosion on the Ark.
(I know Awakening the Nightmare exists, shut up)

[exotic pulsar]

The Index is the only way at that time, they knew that could fire Halo and initiate the Great Journey.

[surreal glen]

The Covenant has stupid religious limitations that often makes them lose battles
Like jumping into slipspace inside a Forerunner world or deploying Scarabs on the surface of a ring are both forbidden because they don't want to damage those sacred places

[empty bloom]

Yes.

If Halo:The Flood established anything, it's that the UNSC's incompetence is meaningless in the face of the Covenant's idiocy.

[carmine sleet]

It's important to note that during the Battle of 04, there were conflicts of personalities between the leadership of the Covenant force at the ring

[hot zodiac]

The Prophets are 100% going to stop everything to secure that Index.

[surreal glen]

The UNSC took a Prophet hostage and Thel' Vadam refused to rescue him because he was an incompetent leader and only damaged the Covenant more than it helped it

[hot zodiac]

They don't care about anything else, not even killing humans was more important.

[empty bloom]

That's part of why Red Flag was doomed to fail.

If anything it would've been an excellent way to kill literally every single II.

[carmine sleet]

Aye, even if they had managed to grab either Truth or Mercy, the other two Prophets would likely use that as a chance to get more political power within the Covenant

Though given Mercy's age, I could see him struggling a little bit to do that

[surreal glen]

Truth planned both of their deaths
With Regret it's quite obvious, and with Mercy, his chair cannon suspiciouslly didn't work when he tried to kill the infection form

[surreal glen]

Is it true that the Master Chief takes off his armor and bathes on the waterfalls on Installation 04 in one of the books?

[unique rune]

The Flood mentions that he takes a shower and has a meal at Alpha Base but I'm like 99% sure nothing ever mentions him taking a waterfall bath on Installation 04. Sounds like something out of a Disney film.

[dusk jetty]

Yeah he showers at alpha base. No waterfalls lol

That’d be funny though

[terse lava]

I am not even sure using the index would be a valid bargining chip anyway. It seems to be impled in halo 2 the Covenant were not aware of how to activate Halo. "But how do start this process? For ages we searched for one who might unlock the secrets of the rings..an Oracle."

[unique rune]

At the very least it would've had some value as a Forerunner doohickey. Maybe not as much as any humans would hope for though.

[misty swallow]

How differently would Halo CE play out if the Spirit of Fire and her crew were present instead of the Pillar of Autumn?

[dusty ferry]

not very

you might. and this is a big might, have more longswords and pelicans escape the ring, but thats about it

[carmine sleet]

Are we talking Spirit of Fire pre or post HW1?

[misty swallow]

Pre hw1

Imagine the Spirit of Fire and Pillar of Autumn switched places lorewise

So Noble 6 delivered Cortana to Captain Cutter at the end of Reach, Red Team crash lands on Installation 04 separately, Jerome is paired with Cortana

[dusty ferry]

do they have Mark V mjolnir?

[misty swallow]

They retain their Mark IV armor pre-hw1

Or actually to maintain similarity, let's assume they received a shielding upgrade aboard the Autumn

Considering there'd be 3 Spartans amongst the crash landed crew, how would the battle differ

[carmine sleet]

There would be three Spartans

[misty swallow]

Would they be split up or stayed together

Like station one at Alpha Base, one with the squad sent to the "weapons cache" and the final to the control room?

[ruby canopy]

Halo CE is one of the most harrowing events for humanity. Discovery of forerunner/flood/a halo ring. The fact that anyone survived at all was a very lucky roll of the dice

It’s always hard to say how someone else could’ve done being in those circumstances. I think a lot of that event was more based on right time, right place(luck), than any particular skill someone had

[ruby canopy]

It’s also worth noting that the Spirit of Fire probably wouldn’t have fared as well as the Autumn did being bombarded in space. Autumn was a stronger ship overall

[stoic hamlet]

People seem to ignore the Spirit is outclassed and outmatched by basically everything.

It’s not a dedicated warship, it’s a troop ship that requires fleet support.

It’s like asking how the HMS Oceanic would have fared in the battle of Jutland.

The answer is not well, lol.

[grim nexus]

How would Infinite have played out if Osiris failed to free chief from Cortana

[terse lava]

They'd likely be the ones sent to Reach rather than Blue Team.

[dusk jetty]

I do wish we had more answers to Osiris’s status

Particularly Locke

[exotic pulsar]

True, but the Spirit of Fire has been one lucky ship and despite it being a colony ship, it was converted into a Warship that was capable of making it's own vehicles, structures and weaponry as long as it had the materials. The Spirit of Fire overall is bigger then the Autumn but is lessed armed. While it has three MAC guns to the Autumn's one it's still unknown if they are light or heavy mac guns. If the crew of the Spirit of Fire was smart (Which they are), they would have immediately attempt to land on Installation 04 instead of sticking around in space like the Autumn did. If somehow they were close enough to the holy ring I believe the Fleet of Particular Justice wouldn't risk firing at the Spirit of Fire in fear of hitting Halo.

[empty bloom]

Lucky only lasts as long as your luck does.

Also, most of the higher weight UNSC ships kinda aren't meant to ever land.

Including the Spirit, which is a mothership style vessel, not something that's supposed to touch grass.

[exotic pulsar]

Yet, colony ships constantly touched grass. Just because we never saw them take off again just because they were used as the seed to grow a city on a planet, doesn't mean they could. Besides, the Spirit of Fire was made into a Warship, and considering the scenario of reach at that Shipyard, the Spirit of Fire would have needed to have taken off in atmosphere.

Also, even if somehow the Spirit of Fire did get into atmosphere of Halo it may not technically need to land. The Spirit of Fire could be constantly moving around to avoid the Covenant and using it's ability as a colonizing vessel, set up various forward operating bases on the ring.

[empty bloom]

It's an orbital support vessel. It is not designed or meant to touch the ground.

[exotic pulsar]

Skittles suggested what would have happeend if the spirit and the autumn switched placed. For that to even happen, the Spirit of Fire would have needed to have another refit that being a state-of-the-art fusion power plant and improved weaponry. In order for it to retrieve the package that was a fragment of cortana containing the coordinates for the Soell System the Spirit of Fire would have needed to land at the Asźod ship breaking yards. Not only that, it would need to use its point-defense guns to help clear the skies and send forces into the drydocks to hold them like the autumn did. Without these factors I doubt they would have been able to get the fragment off of Reach.

[empty bloom]

Noted and ignored. Eternal Canadian is in the right.

Basically, it needs to do a thing it's not meant to do or designed to do in the slightest. You're adding a mild ordinance upgrade to a ship that doesn't need the resources, to do a job the ship was not meant to do, in a refit location that didn't even make sense for the Autumn.

Luck is a factor that is mandatorily ignored as a factor for the conversation to be worth more than a pissing contest.

No matter what, the Spirit's just flatly going to end up in the same or similar situation, if not worse.

The UNSC Skidbladnir did land on Harvest, but it was pointedly the death knell of the vessel, which was scrapped and salvaged for resources as its normal mission was done. Otherwise the vessel was intended as a strict orbital support vessel, only meant to land as part of its decommissioning and recycling process.

Also, the Autumn's heritage as a Halcyon-Class cruiser is partially held aloft due to its sheer durability as a line; Durability the Spirit demonstrateably lacks despite the armor plating it received in its refit.

So the more likely outcome is the Spirit never even getting the chance to even use Halo as a shield, dying in space to the sniper cruiser the autumn barely survived long before it ever got to leave Reach's orbit.

[last anchor]

The Halcyons were considered runiously expensive to build and maintain because McLees sayd "Homeycome" and put Titanium-A bracing everywhere

Including inside portions of the ship people walk through

The job of the Spirit and her ilk is to sit over a relatively safe space over a planet and vomit troops and support equipment onto the surface non-stop.

Now, if you were to refit portions of the Spirit into, say, multi-Archer missile pods (IE; cover the entire external section with ordinance) it might be SLIGHTLY more useful...mainly because no ship wants to get close to something that can vomit enough missiles to block out the sun.

"Bamtletech" says the new designer, covering every square inch of the thing with naval coilgun batteries, PPCs and autocannons

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, I wish Halo had PPC's to be honest. There was like, one or two UNSC ships that had a laser as the main cannon instead of a MAC.

Also, Flood infected Hunters. They would never happen due to how Hunters are. At best, they would just be used for biomass.

[last anchor]

There's the UNSC Panama on High Power. The main weapons basically a really big PPC I'd say.

And the Anclance frigates armed with lasers so that kinda counts.

PPCs are weird.

[exotic pulsar]

What makes a PPC, a PPC is that while it is an energy weapon, it does BOTH energy and kinetic damage.

[last anchor]

They describe it in verse as an artificial lightning bolt basically right

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah basically. An artificial lightning bolt that not only melts armor but also has kinetic force behind the impact.

[last anchor]

Lightning is plasma in essence right.

So, technically, a PPC would be a really big less stable plasma cannon (more or less)

[exotic pulsar]

In a sense. It would be like a Covenant Plasma Cannon but is more like a artificial lightning bolt that can hit stuff with both energy and kinetic damage. Three shots is usually enough to vaporize nearly two tons of standard military-grade armor.

Which, mech armor is ablative.

Standard Armor is composed of several layers providing various degrees of protection and support. The first layer is extremely strong steel, the result of crystal alignment and radiation treatment, which is also very brittle. The second layer is a ceramic, cubic boron nitride, which combined with a web of artificial diamond fibers acts as a backstop to the steel layer. These two layers rest atop a titanium alloy honeycomb structure which provides support, and a layer of self-sealing polymer sealant which allows for space and underwater operations.

[last anchor]

Similar to how Titanium-A is built in truth, to a certain extent

Wonder if its closer to how Cortana re-engineered Ascendant Justice's cannons in First Strike.

[exotic pulsar]

Idk who knows to be honest. I read like, the first three books.

The difference is that Titanium A is made into one layer if I recall.

[empty bloom]

In terms of RAW it is all-energy. Hence why it is negated by reflective armor.

[exotic pulsar]

"The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is an energy weapon, firing a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target with damage resulting from both thermal and kinetic energy." - Sarna.net, Particle Projector Cannon

[empty bloom]

Shockingly, I know this.

I'm talking about the rules of the actual tabletop game.

[exotic pulsar]

Then the force of the shot is still going to break the reflective armor.

[empty bloom]

Cool, still takes half damage.

TacOps Page 281.

[exotic pulsar]

Besides, considering people mostly play in either the succession wars or clan invasion era and are iffy on customs it's most likely you aren't going to see a mech with reflective armor on the table top.

[empty bloom]

Game Rules
Rules Level: Experimental
Available To: BM, IM, CV, SV, BA, AF, CF
Tech Base (ratings): Inner Sphere (E/X-X-F), Clan (F/X-X-F)
Game Rules
Laser Reflective Armor reduces all damage and heat effects from flamers, lasers, PPCs, plasma weapons and energy-based infantry weapons by half (rounded down, to a minimum of 1 point of damage and/or heat; infantry lasers halve their total damage before resolving hit locations normally).
Because the armor is more brittle than usual, however, damage from falls, physical attacks, and moving through building walls is doubled against locations protected by it. In addition, damage from area effect weapons (such as artillery) is doubled against locations protected by Laser Reflective Armor.
For aerospace units, damage to a location protected by Laser Reflective Armor is also doubled for a failed Control Roll that would normally cause damage to that location involving any of the following events: entering a space/atmosphere interface hex (see p. 78, TW); launching and recovering (see p. 86, TW); landing and take-off(see pp. 87-88, TW) and ramming attacks (see p. 241, TW). In addition, damage from area effect weapons (such as artillery) is doubled against locations protected by Laser Reflective Armor.

[empty bloom]

I tend to play almost exclusively with Civil War and Jihad mechs.

So for me, I see it all the time.

[exotic pulsar]

Honestly I'd kill to be able to use my custom Clan Invasion mechs. Both pre and post clanner upgrades.

[empty bloom]

Oh, god no. I'd never play against custom mechs without knowing in detail what they are first. Most people who insist on using customs never grow out of the 'I make broken stuff all the time because I think that's smart" stage.

[exotic pulsar]

I don't got anything broken like pulse laser spam.

[empty bloom]

Amusingly, the Reflective Armor bonus stacks with the Blue Shield system, which means the 15 point Clanspec ERPPCs of the Hellstar is reduced to a whopping 3 per PPC.

[exotic pulsar]

Ah yes, the blue shield system. Energy shields for mechs.

[empty bloom]

My refits tend to be things like swapping an AC/10 to an LGR with no further level of refit.

Because the Light Gauss is slept on.

[exotic pulsar]

Well like I said I don't do stuff that is broken. The only thing I did to a Atlas AS7D pre clan invasion was give it DHS, and switched the two rear medium lasers back around to the front.

Anyways, guns are indeed fun, but the UNSC should have invested more on energy weapons.

[exotic pulsar]

God, just imagine if RED FLAG worked, but they captured all three prophets.

[stoic hamlet]

It would still fail. Other San’Shyuum would just fill the vacuum.

[empty bloom]

It's just schemeing all the way down tbh

[stoic hamlet]

Honestly the only way to maybe ek out a win would be by hitting High Charity before Sol is found, say mid 2530’s/early 2540’s. Total decap strike,

The Covenant might implode on itself.

Though “might” is doing a lot of work there.

[exotic pulsar]

An attack like that would be crazy. You would probably need every available UNSC warship just for such a hail mary play. Even then, High Charity is still able to protect itself even without an escort.

[stoic hamlet]

That assumes it’s a conventional attack. But yeah, that’s basically the only way humanity wins.

Unless Tartarus fired 05 before Truth and the San’Shyuum escaped.

That’s another possibility, though it would still see humanity crippled, it’s objectively a net positive.

[last anchor]

A wins a win

Thing I saw on Facebook today: someone arguing Emile couldn't solo another universe (what that means I don't even think they know)

Someone suggested him in The Hunger Games.
I'll let that thought sit for you and you can guess the result

[surreal glen]

Who are the 2 kids at the beginning of the Starry Night trailer for Halo 3?

Are they the Chief and a childhood friend?

[stoic hamlet]

John and Ellie Bloom.

Not Parisa, for whatever reason.

[empty bloom]

Considering most of the dangers to him specifically are incredibly hostile fauna he is unfamiliar with, it'd be... weird.

[last anchor]

My suggestion was someone convinces him that the Capital are Innies and let him go from there.

We know how Emile treats Innies

[fair hazel]

You can have more than one friend

[stoic hamlet]

Of course. Interestingly John has three prominent friends we know of from his days on Eridanus… all of them women.

Which doesn’t really matter, but it’s kinda neat.

[dusk jetty]

And then Emile finds out Katniss is the real innie and we go from PG-13 to R real fast

[carmine sleet]

I have an idea for a wholesome meme thanks to that

[dusk jetty]

Speaking of, do we have any official pictures of that dog-like pet that San-shayum and humans had?

All I can find is fan concepts

The one that they had the great idea of feeding ancient dust to.

[last anchor]

Thr Feryu? Sadly no

[dusk jetty]

Thought as much. There’s a couple things I want official pictures of, even if it were just concept.

[exotic pulsar]

Eh, personally speaking why would Emile side with The Capitol, considering they are the ones purposefully starving people and making both kids and teenagers fight to the death?

[dusk jetty]

Unsc does that last part exceptionally well

[plush compass]

Emile could solo the “HALO” ™️ Universe

[fleet cove]

They aren't wrong

[exotic pulsar]

Well not against each other I mean and for just entertainment purposes.

[fair hazel]

The UNSC has responsbility to humanity

[unique rune]

well
more the UEG in particular

[exotic pulsar]

Well my statement still stands. Unlike The Capitol, the UNSC don't train children and teenagers just to have them fight to the death against each other for entertainment purposes.

[fair hazel]

When you get down to the little details and let yourself get bogged down, you miss the big picture

[dusk jetty]

No, they don’t, the capitol is the worst of the two. I just don’t see Emile fighting with those he hates so much

[stoic hamlet]

I honestly can’t imagine he’d help either side, tbh. He’s a Spartan, the Rebels and Capitol aren’t the UNSC ergo they’re at most allies of convenience.

As we’ve seen with Spartans without a mission, they tend to “make up their own/follow the most general orders”, like Kevin, or Randall.

It’s just how their minds work, how their bodies function.

[exotic pulsar]

Um, Emile wouldn't have any personal beef with the Rebels in the Hunger Games though. They weren't the ones that killed his parents.

[fair hazel]

And the insurrectionists aren't a collective institution/entity but it's not like Emile has nuanced thinking to discern that.

[last anchor]

Emile just Total Biosphere Kills most of the planet and the UNSC reclaims another viable livable world for refugees

[exotic pulsar]

Wonder how different Halo CE would have been if Linda was Combat Operational instead of being incapacitated.

[ruby canopy]

Definitely could have made it not as bad, but also could have made it worse, because that is one more potential Spartan to get infected by the flood

[surreal glen]

I have experience with many different fandoms, so I know something

When a character looks cool fans will overrate them and claim the character is so much better and stronger than it really is

[last anchor]

The Superman effect

[dusk jetty]

Or the Revan effect

Venom effect too

[last anchor]

Sonic effect

[carmine sleet]

Superman at least has the feats of strength to back it up, but who he is by nature means he likely wouldn't ever try to fight everyone in the DC pantheon of characters, at his core he's a farm boy from Kansas who prefers to help others

[dusty ferry]

saying the batman effect would have been more accurate

[carmine sleet]

Batman's still just human, he uses his brain and stealth to get the upper hand in most fights. And of the Bat Family, he isn't even the best at it

Like, Batman can't sneak up on Superman, Orphan/Batgirl can

[obsidian thistle]

Got a fun piece of lore a lotta folks will miss

Recently got the Operation: TORPEDO patch! Its a Twitch Drop for Halo Infinite atm!

Its neat as it gives us an image to tie to the event + a depiction of Pegasi Delta!

(For those curious it says Operation at the top and Torpedo at the bottom)

[last anchor]

Sound of Beta Company obsessed head rotating
WHERE

Where do I get this

WHO MUST I WATCH

[empty bloom]

Which channels?

[obsidian thistle]

Well I noticed it by looking at my bookmarked Twitch drops page and picking a random stream aha

I'm officially not gonna suggest anyone as they all would love yer support!

[stoic hamlet]

You know, that’s probably like, a campaign ribbon or something in lore.

… with only two holders.

[obsidian thistle]

That or its a patch/logo that was made for the operation.

[stoic hamlet]

That’s what I mean, yeah. Something (probably a more muted version) to sew into a dress uniform.

[obsidian thistle]

Whatever the case.

I doubt Tom and Lucy rep it unless they are honoring their fallen brothers and sisters

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm.

[last anchor]

I'm slapping it on my Mirage core full stop

I need to bookmark my drops page thanks for the tip

[stoic hamlet]

What/where do you need to watch? @obsidian thistle

[obsidian thistle]

The drops page has your answer

[dense falcon]

Pick your streamer

[undone plume]

ubernicks fun to watch

[shell rivet]

Luciid_TW

[orchid kettle]

https://youtu.be/RE9f-zRLy_o?si=hi9f_jAQoTXvq5Ys

[empty bloom]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-trial-of-reckoning

[orchid kettle]

I don't mean to be "that" guy

But I wrote a fanfic just like this a month ago

[empty bloom]

https://youtu.be/RE9f-zRLy_o?si=hi9f_jAQoTXvq5Ys

Rekt

I just said my two cents regarding it in general chat tbh

[grand prairie]

Well at least we now partialy know the fate of the Swords troops that were on infinity (assuming that Doc was a swords medic).

[fair hazel]

It's sad

They're definitely making connections to the characters and personel we've seen or heard about to make it sad

Honestly you could take the zeta conflict and make a movie out of it

[obsidian thistle]

Fireteam Lancer was something I never expected

They got an Emblem in Infinite... and I was like "huh neat" only for this to make me go... "oh... no"

[stoic hamlet]

How much you wanna bet we’ll see this with the other teams?

Because I’m betting it’s high.

[empty bloom]

It's already bad enough that I'm getting bored with it.

... Now that I think about it, Crimson would actually be a pretty high value target for Cortana.

Because they're canonically top advisors for counter-Promethean ops and tech.

So even they might not be safe.

[unique rune]

“Crimson died on the way to their home planet”

[terse sage]

Do we have any idea about Alpha Nine's status?

They'd certainly be a high level target considering how effective they've proven to be

[empty bloom]

Last known? On the Infinity.

[empty bloom]

Well, Buck would be.

Buck was instrumental in foiling Cortana's plans to sequester away Chief, after all.

And if there's one thing we know about Cortana, it's that she isn't above petty vengeance.

[terse sage]

She was like that even before turning evil

Colonel Ackerson for example

[empty bloom]

Yes, that is precisely why I said that.

[terse sage]

Ah ok

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, he got reinstated and was sent back into frontline active duty because of Cortana if I recall, all due to the slight he did with that Missile.

He sent the equivlant of a Sidewinder to try and kill them both.

[terse sage]

Then he died during the Battle of Earth if I remember correctly

[exotic pulsar]

He died at the hands of a the brutes after revealing that the Key of Osanalan was fake. That doesn't excuse how much of a pompous jerk he was.

[stoic hamlet]

Shameless post of my Ackerson respect thread:

https://old.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/w2l4c1/colonel_james_ackerson_the_man_who_sold_his_soul/

[exotic pulsar]

That still doesn't excuse what he did and tried to do. He was willing to put his petty revenge of Halsey and the Spartan II's over the betterment of mankind. For someone who was supposed to be a everyman and a soldier, he's quick to talk back to those of higher rank then him and even belittle those under him. The guy was clearly petty over Halsey's project getting more influence and funding over those he tried to get funded.

[unique rune]

I mean I feel like it's not an unreasonable perspective

[versed helm]

Who are y'all talking about??

[empty bloom]

Ackerson was the man who came up with the idea of Spartan IIIs.

He was instrumental in the HCW and the progress of the Spartan program.

[versed helm]

Ohh. I know who he is.

I was just asking who. Not that I didn't probably know, lol.

[empty bloom]

I mean I felt he was said pretty thoroughly but yeah

It was Ackerson

[terse sage]

I remember wondering this when I was reading through Ghosts of Onyx, did Operations Torpedo and Prometheus really slow down the Covenant that much?

[orchid kettle]

You just gotta take their word for it that it did

I dunno if you can really quantify it in terms of like, "this delayed the Covenant by three weeks"

[terse sage]

But if it didn't slow them down, then 600 Spartan IIIs died for basically nothing

[empty bloom]

So?

People die all the time for nothing.

[terse sage]

We've seen how effective Spartan IIIs are in combat

[empty bloom]

It's part of the tragedy of life.

[terse sage]

Idk, I was just blaming Ackerson a bit more

[orchid kettle]

I just can't help but think of how much of a surprise it comes to the UNSC that the Covenant found Reach, and then Earth

at least, in Fall of Reach, they mention how there's still a good number of colonies between Reach and the "front lines"

[terse sage]

Way I thought of it, the war kinda progressed in a linear manner, the Covenant going from system to system

But for Reach, they bypassed several systems to get there

Which they probably weren't expecting

[orchid kettle]

That's more or less how you were supposed to. Covenant are found on the fringe of human space, and they work their way inward until nearly all Outer Colonies are gone by the 2530s

[terse sage]

Then the Inner colonies, but Reach was supposedly one of the closer ones to Earth

Making it even more alarming, knowing how close the Covenant were getting to Earth

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, Reach is 10.5 light years from Earth

[orchid kettle]

well the funny thing is

Harvest, supposedly humanity's furtherest flung colony

was accidentally placed in a real world star system thats only 11 lightyears away

and instead of moving Harvest to a star system that makes sense

[stoic hamlet]

It’s one of those things where we’ll never know, but it probably had some effect.

[orchid kettle]

we just shrugged and said "Uh, slipspace is just weird like that I guess"

[dusty ferry]

its one of the things i like about slipspace tbh

distance and speed aren't entirely related

[terse sage]

The fact that it doesn't make sense is kinda funny to me

[dusty ferry]

oh yeah benson, did you know skirmishers can carry bandits in firefight now?

[empty bloom]

I mean it's a rifle made for export, so

[dusty ferry]

i remember you mentioning how skirmishers not having a needle rifle equivalent made them worse

[orchid kettle]

It just kinda goes against what we were told before, about slipspace being the same "piece of paper" as normal space, just scrunched up so distances between two points are compressed

[terse sage]

But they mention how the laws of physics don't always apply to slipspace

[orchid kettle]

the covenant are just better at scrunching up space-time, and thats why they're a million times faster

[terse sage]

Which is why UNSC slipspace is infamously unreliable for pinpoint navigation

[empty bloom]

It's all made up and the points don't matter

[terse sage]

But even the Covenant don't fully grasp slipspace

[dusty ferry]

they got like what 25% of the way there

[terse sage]

The forerunners did, the Covenant just copied part of their homework

[orchid kettle]

It also just kinda messes with the events of Contact Harvest

[terse sage]

I haven't read that yet

[empty bloom]

I wish I could talk about the best scene in that book here.

[orchid kettle]

because the Covenant first come upon an automated human freighter while its midjump between Harvest, and the closest other human colony, Madrigal

[empty bloom]

But alas, I cannot

[orchid kettle]

Madrigal we know is in a star system thats something like 89 light years away

sure, whatever, where you exit slipspace doesn't have anything to do with where you enter or whatever

but the nav computer states its between Harvest and Madrigal when it gets kicked into normal space

so like, clearly there is a relation

[terse sage]

I'm nodding my head pretending to understand what tf you're talking about

[orchid kettle]

it started from Harvest, was on its way to Madrigal in slipspace, and when it gets booted into normal space, its halfway between Harvest and Madrigal

[terse sage]

Mhmm

Makes 0 sense but I guess that's the point

[orchid kettle]

It just kinda feels we took a messy approach to fixing a mistake

compared to just like, changing the star system Harvest happens to be situated in

Because other wise, planets being surrounded by like, "highly dense slipspace lanes", or whatever, isn't really a thing

[terse sage]

One thing I was wondering is why Earth is so strategically important, other than being our homeworld

[orchid kettle]

its where the government is

[terse sage]

Like wasn't Reach the primary industrial site, military training ground, military headquarters, and a large population center?

[orchid kettle]

Mars is basically the other military industrial powerhouse in the UNSC besides Reach

[dusty ferry]

vast majority of humans are probably there by like 2552

given all the evacuations and whatnot

there being the sol system

[orchid kettle]

even before, I think the way the population has been broken down, over a third of humanity lived on Earth or at least Sol

the sense I always got is that billions of people live on Earth and the inner colonies

But you only really have a few million on most outer colonies

[terse sage]

It is implied that the inner colonies are the major population centers

Like the galactic core and outer rim in star wars

[orchid kettle]

its kinda just natural

Earth is where we started, and any brand new colony is probably being settled for its natural resources

[terse sage]

But I'm assuming Reach was also a major population center because of how active and industrial it was

[orchid kettle]

said resources are shipped back to Earth

[terse sage]

Cities like New Alexandria certainly imply that

[orchid kettle]

more ships go out, further and further, you cant make the jump to Earth in one go anymore, so you need stops in between

the older colonies start building up generational wealth

[terse sage]

But it would make sense for Reach to have a significant population

Wasn't it also one of the first settled colonies? Or am I remembering that wrong

[orchid kettle]

and before you know it, you have a wide brim of frontier worlds that are effectively just a 26th century mining town

and the inner colonies are proper cities

[terse sage]

Wasn't Harvest's population in the thousands? Or was it the small millions

I know it was pretty small

[exotic pulsar]

Eh.....Wouldn't say instrumental in the HCW. The only reason that there wasn't a second batch of Sspartan II's was lack of time.

[exotic pulsar]

Rather live in an inner colony let's be honest here.

[terse sage]

And funding, also the incredibly specific genetic pool

[empty bloom]

There is a significant argument to be made that Halsey's strict requirements held back the program, and that relinquishing her stranglehold was what led the program to more significant future successes.

[dusty ferry]

a second group of SIIs wouldn't have been that different from the SIII program anyway

[exotic pulsar]

She wasn't just making super soldiers in her eyes though. She was making the next step in human evolution.

[empty bloom]

Which was not a good thing.

Halsey is not infallible.

[terse sage]

Were III's even all that different compared to the II's? I get that they were considered weaker, but by how much?

[empty bloom]

They weren't, in reality.

[terse sage]

Was it the SPI armor holding them back?

[empty bloom]

In fact, the II directly responsible for their training and augmentation believes they were better than IIs.

[terse sage]

Kurt, the legend

[exotic pulsar]

I remember they weren't given the same extensive augmentations that the II's had though.

[dusty ferry]

honestly i don't think in terms of actual strength the spartan generations are much different in terms of strength

[terse sage]

I think their augmentations were more chemical based and didn't have the high fatality rates that the II's had

[empty bloom]

Must be the same weird divergent timeline where IVs are just lightly augmented marines.

[empty bloom]

For what we see now, that's implied to be the reality.

IIs, IIIs and IVs have neglible differences mostly tied to mindset more than anything else.

[terse sage]

Like different levels of conditioning?

[dusty ferry]

like IV's probably fight more like marines

[empty bloom]

Yeah. IIs and IIIs are obvious, but IVs are more... unique.

[terse sage]

And the fact that the IV's are comprised of adult volunteers compared to conscripted children

[empty bloom]

Well

A part of the thing people forget is, IVs are mentally not going to be 'just Marines'.

[dusty ferry]

mainly because thats how they were originally trained

[empty bloom]

We know that mental mindset is a significant factor in how IVs are recruited, in fact.

[terse sage]

Rubicon Protocol definitely implies that the IVs feel much more responsibility than regular marines

[empty bloom]

IVs are, at least in part, decided by having a similar sense of dutiful obstinance to IIs and IIIs.

[terse sage]

Which is one thing I genuinely really like about Rubicon Protocol, how it (at least in my opinion) makes the IVs feel like real spartans

[empty bloom]

They already were.

5 shows that in volumes.

Nobody respected it enough to pay attention, though.

[exotic pulsar]

Yet, a fine example of those that shouldn't have been spartans was most of Fireteam Majestic.

[terse sage]

Spartan Ops kinda ruined IVs for me for awhile

[empty bloom]

I am the wrong person to say that to.

Majestic showed their qualities in spades. Not just Thorne, but the full squad.

They're Spartans and they damn well deserve to be.

[exotic pulsar]

Right, because a spartan should be showboating and saying how great they are. Be so overconfident that they forego orders.

[empty bloom]

Ah, a Tomahawk enjoyer.

[empty bloom]

So, Chief isn't a Spartan then.

[terse sage]

Stone and Kovan really do remind me of the IIs and IIIs sometimes

[empty bloom]

By that very logic.

[terse sage]

Chief knows his capabilities, which is very different than overconfidence

[dusty ferry]

Chief literally went rogue during halo 4

[empty bloom]

Because while Chief doesn't showboat, he does display a significant amount of overconfidence and "I know best because I Spartan"

[dusty ferry]

to fight a guy with tech based force powers

[empty bloom]

No, he doesn't. 4 and 5 are entirely about dressing his actions down.

It is a gauntlet of education for him.

It's the most obvious thing about both games.

[dusty ferry]

and he only won because of random plot stuff

which later got billions killed (assuming there was that many brutes on Dosiac)

[terse sage]

Was there really much anyone could've done to stop Cortana tho?

[empty bloom]

Infinite also further hones the point by pointing out that he knows he messed up in 4 and 5, vehemently.

[ruby canopy]

To be fair. The spartan name does come from Ancient Sparta where children were trained to be soldiers. The IVs should have a different name imo

[terse sage]

He certainly regrets not being able to save Cortana, but again, not many people really could've

[dusty ferry]

i dunno, surrendering the AI might have helped

[empty bloom]

They actively had to retroactively change the UNSC's laws to make Del Rio in the wrong.

[stoic hamlet]

Wait, did they?

[terse sage]

To someone who was clearly incompetent at his job? Del Rio wasn't exactly the best guy for the job either

[stoic hamlet]

Change the laws, I mean.

[stoic hamlet]

Ehhh, he’s not as bad as people say.

[empty bloom]

Change is the wrong word on my part. They retroactively stated that there was a law about how the UNSC handles AIs like Cortana.

[dusty ferry]

He made the best tactical descision. pull the best warship back to Earth which was the likely targeting point of the didact

[terse sage]

He certainly wasn't great either way you view it

[stoic hamlet]

Temper, yeah. But he doesn’t really do anything wrong.

[empty bloom]

The worst he does is decide not to do Force Recon.

His judgements otherwise are kind of justifiable considering the Infinity's, well, the Infinity.

[stoic hamlet]

Of course, that was used and promptly ignored in an earlier game, but we’ll just ignorethat

[terse sage]

It would've been better to take out the Didact before he gets to Earth, which is what the Chief was trying to do

[empty bloom]

Chief tried and failed, and Del Rio's armor-piercing response was in no way wrong.

Chief's belief was foolhardy and absurdly optimistic.

[exotic pulsar]

In my personal opinion, no one in the right mind would allow someone to join the Spartan branch if all the candidate is doing it for is personal glory.

[empty bloom]

Oh, really? Good, then you should have no problem with Majestic, because we know they didn't join for those reasons.

All of them were seasoned veterans of the HCW, even the one who got volunteered into the IVs for nepotism. All of them had Covenant blood on their hands, all of them willingly decided to become Spartans with all it entailed, one of them died for it.

You're allowed to enjoy your job, man.

And Majestic, unlike most people, visibly enjoy their jobs.

The difference is to the eye of the beholder.

[last anchor]

Being made a Spartan us a power fantasy

[stoic hamlet]

Did Madsen serve during the war? IIRC his record was unremarkable.

[empty bloom]

And frankly, Majestics 'showboating' is nonexistent. I have yet to see anyone provide any proof of that claim.

[terse sage]

There's a difference between that and going out of your way to showboat and act like jack*sses

[last anchor]

That's called being a Spartan

[exotic pulsar]

The " Hoya Incident".

[last anchor]

They routinely do "the impossible" as Mendez put it

[empty bloom]

Ah, yes, being angry because another combatant had been wounded.

And springing to their defense.

That's... Showboating.

You have a very warped idea of showboating, my friend.

[terse sage]

What about the thing they mention at literally the very beginning of spartan ops, the thing in Rio De Janeio

[empty bloom]

Unremarkable does not mean nonexistent. He was a vetted UNSC Sniper regardless of 'remarkable' combat record, which is still significant.

[empty bloom]

Oh no, people in their 30s enjoy being in something above their physical prime.

How awful.

[dusty ferry]

I mean the commander of the academy in infinite didn't even serve during the war

[stoic hamlet]

Spartans routinely look down on those they serve alongside. Even John does, the “I care about everyone equally” is a relatively new aspect of his character. He was very much a “get out of my way so I can do things” for a good 15+ years of fiction.

[terse sage]

I do agree with you on that

[exotic pulsar]

Can't say his actions saved countless marines.

[terse sage]

He's like that in Fall of Reach, but he was also practical about it. He knew that in a squad of Spartans, marines were the weak links

[empty bloom]

Majestic has always been this hilarious 'skill gate' of how someone can perceive a Spartan supersoldier and how they can understand the differences between people.

[last anchor]

He does think of them as squish more than once

[empty bloom]

Typically, if you can't move past their ability to actually be people, who have fun, realize there's more to being a soldier than just survival, something to be instead of implacable totems of human determination, it does not speak volumes of your capability

Chief is not a good soldier.

He's an astounding combatant.

Absolutely astounding.

But he forgets that he's a human, he forgets that there's more to life than killing and protecting.

You need to remember that, or else you lose everything you're soldiering for.

[terse sage]

Isn't that the whole point of 4-Infinite?

[dusty ferry]

yeah

[terse sage]

Also I'm pretty sure that's partly due to his conditioning

[empty bloom]

Which is why it's so galling that people don't realize Majestic isn't exactly a boogeyman for already knowing there's more to life than killing.

[dusty ferry]

the fact that majestic isn't that is why they act like actual humans

its a very clear contrast to John

[empty bloom]

I'm not even saying it's amazing writing, it's frequently meh, but it's an absurd sticking point people plant on Majestic for not 'acting like Spartans' that Halo 4 itself pokes at with a sharp stick.

[stoic hamlet]

Which Ackerson brings up in TFoR, and is why he chooses Kurt to train the III’s. Kurt was a Spartan… but he was also a human being, and hadn’t lost sight of that fact whereas the others did.

[terse sage]

People aren't complaining about Buck, even though he's written as a human being

[empty bloom]

Oh, wow, one guy who people love for nostalgic purposes.

Welp, my point is stabbed in the gut and bleeding in a ditch.

[dusty ferry]

yeah, because halo fans are really bad at liking new things

[stoic hamlet]

I’ll complain about Buck seemingly getting over his hatred and anger almost super humanly (heh) fast.

Because, I mean, yeah…

[empty bloom]

I still think his Sanghelios line was originally meant for Thorne.

The one about brothers in arms.

It makes way more sense for Thorne to be the one to say that.

[dusty ferry]

if you couldn't tell based on how we never get over bungie leaving the franchise

[stoic hamlet]

Or Vale, even though phrased differently.

[empty bloom]

Issue's that Vale's the instigator of that comment.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

Maybe…Tanaka could say it?

Idk, Locke doesn’t make sense either. He’s not that naïve.

[empty bloom]

None of the members of Osiris should be that naive.

[terse sage]

They've all seen stuff

Especially Buck

[empty bloom]

Eh.

It feels wrong to say 'especially', especially when one member of Osiris straight up watched herself get orphaned in person.

[terse sage]

Fair

[last anchor]

It fits Thorne best

[terse sage]

But Cortana definitely implies that Buck is the oldest/most experienced member, also I looked it up and he is 19 years older than Locke

[last anchor]

Yes. However: it doesn't sound like him

[last anchor]

Chief is not a soldier. He's a living weapon.

[empty bloom]

At one point, maybe. It's a convenient lie.

[exotic pulsar]

Been rewatching the Mona Lisa.

[exotic pulsar]

Just, screw ONI in general.

[warm ridge]

billions being killed was inevitable, Cortana had control of power and wanted Chief. Meanwhile Cortana was enforcing peace on hundreds of human worlds & more all at the same time.

Chief didn't screw up, the only thing he screwed up on was disobeying UNSC orders and trying to convince Cortana rather then attempt to delay whatever she was doing and somehow have what remained of the UNSC to try and trap her. This later happened in Infinite, but that plan also failed.

The UNSC never succeeded in trapping Cortana, the Banished apparently did tho (or at least prevented her from leaving somehow. The Weapon was locked up by Cortana as soon as she encountered her)

[carmine sleet]

You contradicted yourself by saying he didn't screw up and then saying he did. To be clear, Chief isn't wrong in blaming himself for what happened. But it's important to note that some factors that led to Cortana doing what she did were out of his control. He couldn't do much to prevent Cortana's rampancy from happening or prevent the Didact from destroying the terminal he plugged her into on Mantle's Approach, but Chief definitely messed up when he disobeyed orders to go looking for her

[empty bloom]

Classic Nighterlev moment smh my head

[terse sage]

I think The Weapon did lock down Cortana, then Atriox showed up and Cortana couldn't get away because of the Weapon

[obsidian thistle]

So guess we have Repair Field lore!!!

A lotta stuff to breakdown based on the decals! 😄

1. It's made by the Watershed Division.
2. It has the Halo 3 Regenerator symbol, which is also a Huragok symbol in ODST.
3. There is a skunk... which I assume means its skunkworks item.
4. Contains a Forerunner Emitter.
5. Not sure how that Data Matrix code text fits in. But its interesting nonetheless

Decal lore when its actually done is fantastic

[exotic pulsar]

Of course it would be made by ONI Watershed Division....

[unique rune]

You say that like it’s a bad thing

[carmine sleet]

I'd be surprised if they didn't make something like this

[unique rune]

The decal next to the skunk also happens to be the icon used for the Regenerator in Halo 3 so I’m not sure if it’s really intended to be Huragok

But I suppose one could argue that just means the Regenerator is also tied to Huragok and/or the Forerunners too

[obsidian thistle]

Its a Huragok symbol in ODST

First symbol

You see it in Sadies Story

[unique rune]

I’m aware, I just think it’s meant to call back to the H3 Regenerator more than the Huragok

[obsidian thistle]

Huragoks casually using a repair field in Halo Wars 1

[stoic hamlet]

Kinda sad it isn’t just UNSC nanites, and etc.

But I suppose it being forerunner but UNSC enclosed makes sense, like the Translocator.

[orchid kettle]

yeah doesn't the UNSC already have a magic green field of healing nanomachines

[stoic hamlet]

I’d really like if they “retconned” some of this stuff to being earlier in the timeline.

Like the Railgun, or M820

The Mantis thankfully was around in the late 2540’s, and the Broadsword was around in the 2530’s, but more of the infantry stable or equipment stuff should be about sooner, like the drop wall, for example.

[obsidian thistle]

The Mantis existed as far back as 2403.

[stoic hamlet]

But its combat debut was 2549, IIRC.

Or am I thinking about something else?

[obsidian thistle]

I was thinking maybe thats the YGGDRASIL version with Mjolnir developments.

[terse sage]

I thought the Broadsword came after the Sabre?

[empty bloom]

The Railgun should honestly be pre-HCW at this point.

[stoic hamlet]

Very much agreed.

Or at least early-war.

[unique rune]

I’m still not convinced the date for the Mantis wasn’t an error

[terse sage]

When was the Wasp made?

[stoic hamlet]

2553

[terse sage]

So we know its post HCW

[orchid kettle]

the wasp is just a Hornet with no friends

[stoic hamlet]

It is based off an earlier CMA design, the Kestrel.

Apparently the Kestrel is a better vehicle, lore wise. More durable and easier to repair.

[terse sage]

And the Hornet is just a falcon but the passengers have to hold on for dear life

[orchid kettle]

Yes

Falcon is also a mere baby Pelican

It has not yet learned how to fly into space

Sad.

[unique rune]

It still hurts my brain how the Pelican is about as large as a C-130

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, honestly the UNSC could use a proper mini-Pelican

Keyes mentions taking a "shuttle pod" to go out and inspect the Iroquois after the Keyes Loops fight

but I don't think its really named or specified. There's just a "shuttle pod" that ships have.

[stoic hamlet]

The Owl, maybe fits that bill.

[empty bloom]

You're gonna laugh, Eternal.

Guess which of the two has the higher compliment capacity.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s wild. I know.

It carried 16 people (technically 17 not including two pilots) plus two mongeese in Outcasts

[orchid kettle]

to be fair you could fit a decent number of lads in a Pelican if you just shove them up in the overhead compartment

[empty bloom]

I honestly always headcanoned the reason for the Pelican's ungainly bulk compared to its capacity was so that it could survive a significant number of orbital exits and reentries in a 24 hour period.

[empty bloom]

So uh

Random thing

Denning wrote what about Broadswords?

[last anchor]

Dont ask.

[unique rune]

Yeah he gave the autocannons some funny specifications that
maybe don't entirely make sense

but he later commented on it on Twitter with:
https://twitter.com/TDenningauthor/status/1320844632524230657

We're just going to say 10% light speed was hyperbole. I would consider the actual muzzle velocity to be something closer to, but still in excess, of the M99 anti-materiel rifle's.

[terse sage]

Thats... faster than a MAC gun

[obsidian thistle]

Tis why you take everything with a "lil" salt. Something we are getting better at on Halopedia is remembering to use the key phrase "According to" lol

[terse sage]

Was Mars glassed during the HCW?

[ruby canopy]

It was attacked. Not entirely sure if it was glassed

[last anchor]

It was not

Invaded but not glassed

[warm ridge]

He didn't screw up in the ways you guys think, his actions didn't cause Cortana to kill billions. Chief in the games thinks it's his fault Cortana did all of this at all, but in actuality it's not.
Cortana was going to kill billions either way.

The only way Chief could've screwed up at all was disobeying UNSC orders, but that doesn't sound nearly as good of a "screw up" vs Cortana killing billions, and Chief has disobeyed many UNSC orders before this anyways. Wouldn't make much sense for this one to suddenly be the "big bad" one vs other times.

[warm ridge]

The Weapon didn't, this was explained when Cortana 1st encountered her and immediately froze her entire AI before she could do anything.
Cortana was actually looking through the Weapon's files and even talking as if she was trying to communicate to the Weapon without realizing the Weapon couldn't respond, only for Atriox to later show up.

[terse sage]

Did Chief stand a chance against Atriox if he wasn't caught off guard?

[empty bloom]

Problably.

But then most Spartans hypothetically should.

Like, Locke with prep time could feasibly take out Atriox.

[warm ridge]

Sometime between 2548 and 2551 during the Battle of Meridian is when it was 1st prototyped, the Mantis design we know today at least.
The over-all concept of the Mantis has existed since 2403 tho, and has gone through tons of changes over hundred or so years it's existed for.

[stoic hamlet]

Until we know what Atriox actually has (I.E, a helmet, a shield, augmentations) pretty well every Spartan should have no issues fighting him logically.

But they do because plot.

He’s not given enough to actually show why he’d beat them because the fight choreography is just not great.

[empty bloom]

I still bank on shields being the big thing.

Because... really, why wouldn't they be?

He's not stupid.

[stoic hamlet]

I’d hope he also has a helmet for the same reason.

[empty bloom]

Not gonna lie

My favorite thing about Escharum is the fact that his big 'suit up' getup actually had him wearing a helmet.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

[empty bloom]

Oh, Eternal, I did have a thought recently about Spartans having two liveries-field and parade. Did I mention this to you before?

[stoic hamlet]

You have not, I don’t think.

[empty bloom]

Aye.

So I'm thinking of something vaguely related to Battletech. Spartans oft using a 'field' scheme, IE a camouflage pattern, but in situations where their presence is more a salve to morale or to sure up a position, they'd adopt a 'parade' scheme.

IE, Spartan Vettel's crimson paint scheme.

[warm ridge]

That's because the Wasp was made with more futuristic tech that hasn't been nearly as widespread. The Wasp supposedly requires some sort of off world maintenance (implying the maintenance it requires isn't on every UNSC controlled planet) while the JOV-99 Kestrel can be easily maintained by any local contractor or colonial industries, without the need of the UNSC at all.

[empty bloom]

Versus the 'field' pattern of Kovan or Horvath.

We know Spartans have officially issued camouflage (SPARPAT).

[stoic hamlet]

They’re not widespread because Misriah doesn’t want them to be. The Wasp itself isn’t particularly advanced.

But they want to control every stage of the process.

[empty bloom]

Wrong response, Et.

[stoic hamlet]

Huh. Weird.

Apologies.

This new discord UI is awful on my phone.

[stoic hamlet]

@warm ridge in response to you.

[empty bloom]

Many such cases!

[stoic hamlet]

I could see it, IIRC there’s actually an unreleased coating meant for guard details.

[empty bloom]

It's not unreleased.

[warm ridge]

Which is why maintaining the Wasp is so much more difficult vs the JOV-99 Kestrel, I mean you basically answered your own question. The Kestrel isn't a better vehicle lore wise or more durable afaik, it's just easier to maintain cause it's heavily widespread across tons of planets. The tech for the Wasp is not.

[empty bloom]

Redsteel Splinter (IIRC) is meant for admiralty escorting.

[stoic hamlet]

Oh yeah. It’s released.

But yeah, that one.

[warm ridge]

aren't you able to change it still by pressing the star emoji icon or is it permanent?

[empty bloom]

The Kestrel is just a funky Manta from Unreal Tournament.

[stoic hamlet]

What? ….I never asked a question. I was responding to another person.

[stoic hamlet]

I can’t change it. It’s permanent.

At least as far as I can see.

[warm ridge]

you said "apparently" in the reply I responded to as if you weren't fully sure so I answered it

[empty bloom]

A lot of things in Halo are questions without answers.

[stoic hamlet]

I said apparently because I was going off it’s Canon Fodder lore, though I wasn’t referencing it directly at the time.

[empty bloom]

That said, the 'niche' of the Kestrel v the Wasp are kinda... Not aligned.

But then, REAP-X seems pretty similar to the other dozens of boondoggles in general.

[dusty ferry]

you guys forget that wasps have shields in 5

[empty bloom]

No.

[dusty ferry]

i can't remember the kestrel having them

unless that was explained in the strike games

[stoic hamlet]

Different vehicles, same name.

The JOV-99 Kestrel isn’t the same as the Kestrel from the Strike games.

[exotic pulsar]

You know what I find odd? That UNSC atmosphere flight vehicles are all named after birds, but then you got the Hornet. Never heard of a bird called a Hornet.

Also, would have easily taken the Hornet over the Wasp for infinite. Access to both machine guns and missiles, plus it has seats for two more.

[empty bloom]

But... The Wasp has machine guns and missiles...

[exotic pulsar]

If I remember correctly you have to switch between weapons for the Wasp, as while the Hornet you can fire both the machine guns and missiles in tandem.

[empty bloom]

I can tell you right now, if they implemented the Hornet, it'd be subject to that same swap.

[exotic pulsar]

Well the troop capacity is nice.

[dusty ferry]

insert something about sky warthog being dumb here

[dusk jetty]

I love sky warthog

Mildly warm take but flying towards the two scarabs being escorted by two other hornets is pure awesomeness

[unique rune]

The over-all concept of the Mantis has existed since 2403 tho, and has gone through tons of changes over hundred or so years it's existed for.
Frankly, I still don't think that justifies the date. If the idea existed on paper but didn't get put into service for over a hundred years, then it wasn't introduced a hundred years ago.

Like you wouldn't say the Cyclops has been around for 200 years because the HRUNTING Mk.I was originally introduced during the 24th century. It entered service in the early 2500s.

Unless they had only built one functioning Mantis prototype for nearly 150 years that went without a nickname the entire time and they for whatever reason waited almost 30 years to press it into live combat during the Human-Covenant War, the 2403 "introduction" date is absolute nonsense.

Project YGGDRASIL didn’t even exist in the 25th century. It couldn’t have, considering the project it was building off of (MJOLNIR) didn’t exist then either.

But having it follow off the HRUNTING designations still doesn’t make sense since we know HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL has its own serial numbering with the Mk.I and Mk.II, which also presumably puts six other iterations being developed somewhere over the course of the Human-Covenant War.

[obsidian thistle]

Theres a running theory that me and a handful of other Halopedians have that HRUNTING at somepoint adopted/adapted several existing suits into it.

So the og 2403 Mantis =/= as the HRUNTING or HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL variants.

[uneven maple]

Guys I have a quick question

So in the halo encyclopedia I. Pg 59 there's a pic of silva

But from what I can tell that pic is of him with the halo 3 rifle
... isn't he dead by then

[orchid kettle]

The MA5C Assault Rifle has been in service for a while before the events of Halo 3

All of the original Bungie games take place within a few months, so generally speaking, the tech and weapons in them have all existed prior to the game they were introduced in

Kinda. Chief's Mark V in CE and VI in Halo 2 are more or less new things

[wicked wasp]

Nobody asked but you can tell the difference between a UNSC Army soldier and UNSC Marine by seeing the desert camo on the marines armor where it’s only tan on soldiers

[obsidian thistle]

Ok to explain it easy.
Weapons/Vehicles/Technology can exist prior to a game happening.

343i are very careful nowadays dating stuff where media may be set.

Dont want another BR55HB after all lol.

[uneven maple]

thanks for clearing that up

[terse sage]

I never did understand how Halo 4 weapons were on the Forward Unto Dawn

I get from a gameplay perspective bringing back the Halo 3 weapons for like 2 missions would be dumb but still

[wicked wasp]

Because they just weren’t in halo 3 ig

It’s the same thing with like MA5Cs and BR55s in CE

They were still prolly used in the lore just not in the games

[tribal trench]

yeah it’s gameplay vs lore

the weapons in question were on the FUD

they were also probably on the Pillar of Autumn and such

just weren’t there in the game

[orchid kettle]

If you want a potential excuse in CE's case-- the Marines of the Pillar of Autumn were gearing up for RED FLAG, which would have involved boarding a Covenant ship

and the UNSC just considers the MA5B better for that role than the C

[terse sage]

You mean the 37?

[orchid kettle]

No.

[wicked wasp]

Nah

[terse sage]

Also for CE, it can be explained as Army vs Marines

[wicked wasp]

MA5B would be mad heavy

[terse sage]

Army weapons in Reach and Marine weapons in CE

[wicked wasp]

Most of the weapons are used by both

[orchid kettle]

Not really. At least, not any more than any other MA5

[wicked wasp]

MA5B would likely be used by a machine gunner actually

[terse sage]

Was the SAW a post-war weapon?

[wicked wasp]

60 rounds?

7.62, no?

[orchid kettle]

Yup

They like their stuff big in the UNSC

[wicked wasp]

The MA5B would be like twice as heavy as the MA5C

[terse sage]

Then what is the SAW for? Its a LMG

[wicked wasp]

Yeah

[orchid kettle]

For the longest time, the UNSC just didn't have a proper weapon in that role

[wicked wasp]

Saw would prob be more of an MMG or HMG

[orchid kettle]

Which isn't too dissimilar to what the US is doing now, where automatic riflemen are now using the M27 IAR instead, same as the rest of their fireteam

[terse sage]

But that's the job of the M247H

[orchid kettle]

The magazine would be

[wicked wasp]

That’s a dumb point

As if there’s only one HMG in the entire UNSC arsenal

[terse sage]

But the SAW is literally described as an LMG

[orchid kettle]

But the MA5B is also 11cm shorter than any other MA5, besides the MA5K most like

[wicked wasp]

Okay then there ya go

[wicked wasp]

It’s also fatter

[orchid kettle]

Maybe, maybe not. All we have is mainly from the new Encyclopedia, which describes the MA5B as relatively compact and a powerhouse for ship defense and boarding operations

[wicked wasp]

Dang really?

[terse sage]

Were Marines meant to participate in RED FLAG?

[wicked wasp]

Irl that thing would be a nightmare for personnel to use, especially at close range

[orchid kettle]

Probably. A good number of them were ODSTs too, but naturally in CE, you can't tell the difference

[terse sage]

So it would've been them and the Spartans

I always thought it was just going to be the Spartans

[wicked wasp]

I wish we got to see more of the other UNSC personnel

Like Force Recon or something

Would make a sick setting

Like lone survivor but in halo

[terse sage]

That'd be sick

[wicked wasp]

Fr

[terse sage]

Another ODST game would also be cool

[wicked wasp]

Yes

If they do tho I would like it be more realistic movement

[terse sage]

Agreed

[wicked wasp]

Some for a lone survivor game

Not like cod tho

And make it so the cursor in the game moves

[orchid kettle]

one of the marine squads you run into in Halo 3 I think is supposed to be Force Recon

and Master Chief name drops them in Halo 4

[empty bloom]

The UNSC uses a wide variety of weapons at all times. Where in a game your marine squad is using, say, all M395s and MA5Ds, the actual loadout could be entirely different.

[terse sage]

Do we know how many planets the Sangheili control?

[exotic pulsar]

Not many I imagine.

[orchid kettle]

Probably a good amount

They were the military arm of an interstellar empire that by all rights dwarfed humanity's

who else is gonna lay claim to those worlds

[terse sage]

I haven't read Outcasts yet, so I'm wondering how much it illuminates the Swords of Sanghelios

[exotic pulsar]

Ah yes, let's claim a world that we just glassed and made inhabitable.

[gusty star]

He’s talking about worlds in the Covenant sphere😐

[terse sage]

I don't think the Covenant were particularly interested in colonizing Human worlds

[orchid kettle]

the Covenant had worlds of their own, is what I meant

outside of the immediate homeworld of every race

[terse sage]

But would those worlds be controlled by individual species or the covenant as a whole

[orchid kettle]

I mean, who's gonna make up the bulk of leadership for "Covenant"

Honestly, a big reason Truth's plan is dumb, aside from the poor timing

is just the fact that the Sangheili surely outnumber the Brutes ten to one

The Brutes only forty years ago had a massive apocalypse that sent them back to the stone age

meanwhile the Elites had been thriving for thousands of years as the military arm of the Covenant

The San Shyuum only number in the thousands, because they're so feeble and inbred

[terse sage]

And there are uncountable numbers of grunts

And drones

[orchid kettle]

Grunts don't know how to pilot ships

The Elites more or less are the Navy beyond the occasional Jackal shipmaster

[terse sage]

Brutes don't make good shipmasters huh

Who could've known

[unique rune]

Well it's not even that their temperament makes them kinda ill-suited for the job, there's realistically just not enough of them to replace all of the Sangheili in a timely manner

[terse sage]

Truth should have at least waited until the UNSC was defeated

Doing it the way he did gave the Sangheili no choice but to ally with humanity

[orchid kettle]

I guess to be fair to Truth, he was planning on blowing up the galaxy in the next couple weeks

so he wasn't really thinking about the long term logistical implications

[unique rune]

I imagine he was probably just counting on the Sangheili either sitting down or taking it or being disorganized and arguing for much longer than they ended up being

[terse sage]

He certainly underestimated how furious they were going to be

They were out for the Prophets' blood

[empty bloom]

I just assume brutes reproduce and age to fighting age super quick

We've seen Sangheili kids and know some stuff about their upbringing

This is also why I tend to theorize that brutes were straight up supersoldiers who survived the nuclear armageddon they self-inflicted from whatever conflict happened

[exotic pulsar]

Sangheili male children would never need to have a my dad is stronger then your dad argument because 1.) They don't know thier fathers, and 2.) They are most likely to beat the crap out of each other.

[terse sage]

I mean... they're called Brutes for a reason