lore-and-universe

[dense falcon]

I think I'm confusing authors

[balmy mantle]

OH SHI

same

[dense falcon]

Oh yeah she's Rion Forge

[balmy mantle]

Karen Traviss!

That's who I really liked

So Kelly Gay's work will be all new to me then

[dense falcon]

Yeah, I've seen shade thrown to Karen, not sure about Kelly. But in my series ranking, Kilo-Five is first and Rion Forge is 2nd

[balmy mantle]

Oh wait

[dense falcon]

And consider there are a LOT of good authors, like the late Greg Bear.

[balmy mantle]

She did Rubicon Protocol, I literally just finished reading that and I enjoyed it a lot

[balmy mantle]

To each their own of course, but I own physical versions of the first two books in the Forerunner trilogy and I could barely make it 50 pages in to the first. I just remember how half a page could be used to describe a blade of grass (hyperbolizing) and I just lost interest lol

Then again, I'm like a decade older since I last tried to read them so maybe I'll come back to it with fresh eyes

Also I know it gets hate a lot but The Flood was a great retelling of the first game

I loved that book as a kid

Oh what, the guy who wrote the Silent Storm series also did another trilogy

The Ferrets series lol, interesting name

[empty bloom]

I mean, it literally has a greater bearing on the plot than he had in H3ODST, so.

That's already a gold star.

[balmy mantle]

😦 dont speak ill of my boy like that

[empty bloom]

I don't speak ill. I speak truth.

[balmy mantle]

my dream was to see him become a Spartan 4 and show up again

and then they killed that dream

[empty bloom]

🤷‍♂️ I mean, that doesn't save him from having zero impact.

[balmy mantle]

i knoooow but im saying he could have been used for something

[empty bloom]

The completely featureless camera?

Aside from knowing he was, well, a he

[balmy mantle]

Idunno for me its like

id rather they not mention him ever again then to just mention he died

[empty bloom]

Him dying was the catalyst for A9's evolution, though.

[balmy mantle]

i found that a lot of early 343i Halo lore was closing potential doors, it bothered me a lot

[empty bloom]

It's actually doing something with a character where anything else would violate his entire point as a camera.

[balmy mantle]

i havent read the books btw so if there is something compelling there then ill read

[empty bloom]

You can't make Rookie a 'real' character

Because his entire point is, well, he isn't one.

He's just a guy who can put dots together

[balmy mantle]

Actually I guess on this notion, question because im curious what people would think

[empty bloom]

So what you do instead, is use that as an opportunity to make his character a real character, by making his squad react

[balmy mantle]

we technically didnt see Noble 6 die, do you think it would be cheap to bring him back? i personally would love to see him back

the only other hyper lethal spartan making another appearance would be so good

im pretty sure that we know his name is David or something, he definitely had character moments

[empty bloom]

All Spartans are that now.

Which makes sense because any idiot telling me Linda isn't hyper lethal is, well

Exactlyt that

An idiot

[balmy mantle]

he/she i should say ig depending on what you played

[balmy mantle]

i mean youre not wrong LMAO

[empty bloom]

We visibly see Six die, however.

[dense falcon]

Jonathan Doeherty, a play on the name John Doe

[empty bloom]

The elite's downward thrust is a visibly lethal blow.

It would hit roughly in the neck of Six.

[balmy mantle]

nope it cut away, theres still a chance

[empty bloom]

There is no further room for interpretation that isn't childlike in hopes.

[balmy mantle]

;-;

so long as i admit its child like though

then theres a chance

[empty bloom]

It saves it for people who aren't me.

[balmy mantle]

NOOOOOOOOOO

LMAO

[empty bloom]

Lmao

Yeah, it's funny because Six is dead as hell

[balmy mantle]

ouu when is black friday, i should probably wait to see if a lot of these books go on sale

im gonna juice the hell out of my kindle library

[dense falcon]

...three days ago

[balmy mantle]

what

[dense falcon]

...right?

[balmy mantle]

in 4 days according to google

[dense falcon]

Is it on the week of turkey day?

Ahhh

[balmy mantle]

i think so

i didnt know either tbh because i live in maple syrup land

[dense falcon]

And I live in taco land

[balmy mantle]

ayy

i am the top hat and you are the shoes

[unique rune]

I mean do we really want to bring back B312 so we can invalidate like, the one big central story pillar that Reach has?

I don't even really like Reach's campaign but when the running theme of it is sacrifice... Kinda silly to go "heyyyy the player character didn't actually sacrifice themself"

It's up there with "Chief wakes up from cryo to find out that Halo 4/5 were all just a dream" for Story Decisions That Would Be a Bad Idea

[dusty ferry]

I mean it would still be a sacrifice to have not gotten on the autumn. They just didn’t die

But yeah, it’s a bad idea

Unless they reveal B312 never was Noble six or something

[unique rune]

I feel like I read a really dumb r/HaloStory post that sounded like this

[dusty ferry]

Have that designation either have been used for the main character of the reach game that supposedly exists in universe and have there never have been a B312 at all or they were never a member of noble team

This is the only way I accept B-312 returning. They show up and get annoyed their likeness was used for a video game about events they weren’t around for

[unique rune]

someday I hope 343 makes it so that the B-52 is still in service with the UNSC

[balmy mantle]

I think N6 could be brought back in a not cringe way, but i also dont care if they dont

i can easily admit its just a personal want

[tawny fox]

Well they glassed the hell out of reach so Six would be trapped in said cave and die in there

[cyan torrent]

Very a random question and my first time asking about lore so:
What is the canon reason for the only the Mark V [B] and the ODST Helmets from H3 ODST to have night vision?

I find it very unusual why after Halo Reach, we never saw any Mjolnir armor series to have night vision.
The night vision featured in Halo 3 ODST even has enemies highlighted red when enabled.
Now I am not exactly sure why night vision was never reintroduced (I mean clearly more advanced than just having flash lights).
So in that case is there any in universe reason why the UNSC never touched night vision again?

[empty bloom]

The canon reason is 'MJOLNIR Visors operate differently than ODST ones'. The real reason is that historically, Halo's helmets have never done that sort of thing.

[cyan torrent]

Ah, I see.

[empty bloom]

As for the 'UNSC never touched night vision again', all MJOLNIR helmets come standard with a variety of optic modes that only got more diverse with time, from magnetic sensors to thermal sensors to even a 'jailbroken' version of Promethean Vision.

The games just don't alter your visual capabilities for MP because that level of armor determined detail is the salt to the Halo fanbases' proverbial snail.

[cyan torrent]

Thanks for the explanation!

[empty bloom]

Addendum, not every helmet has all of these modes. Most have one or two of them though.

[scarlet hinge]

in addition to the above, just because something is omitted in the games, it doesn't necessarily indicate anything about the lore itself

things are thrown into the games as-needed for gameplay and fun over accurately reflecting the canon

[cyan torrent]

👍

[stoic hamlet]

As another added example, MJOLNIR can magnify out to several kilometres natively, and Spartan eye-sight regardless is incredibly precise, to the point that while a regular human saw a swarm of sentinels as what she assumed was a plume of smoke, the Spartans (without any sort of vision amplification, just their regular eyes) could discern individual sentinels from the swarm.

[orchid kettle]

The Promethean Vision ability in Halo 4, if I recall, is supposed to incorporate ODST's VISR mode

Like, the ability itself is obviously what's seeing stuff through walls, but I guess your helmet detecting those objects are enemies or allies is the VISR doing its job

[crimson oxide]

You know after reading Silent Storm I kind of wish we saw more of Daisy, its interesting to see a Spartan II be kind of a troublemaker who would back talk even a superior officer like Colonel Crowther, its a shame she dies so early in the timeline, not even reaching the events of Halo Wars

[tranquil valve]

What happened to Fireteams Crimson and Majestic after he events of spartan ops? Are they still active?

[abstract wren]

We don't know for Crimson.
Majestic is still present in Escalation because its the follow up to Spartan Ops

As of october 2558, Majestic was active

[empty bloom]

Amendment; We know Crimson's entire role after the events of Halo 4, which was primarily training other UNSC forces in the proper handling of Forerunner threats.

[abstract wren]

its only in the beginning of 2558.

[empty bloom]

I can't imagine they stopped doing it in just a year, honestly.

[abstract wren]

They can be dismentled

[empty bloom]

I could see them getting turned loose to fight Created threats if they weren't at Earth though. Whew, that'd be a sad end.

mentled

[meager pier]

Would be cool if they eventually add some PvE thing where we play as Crimson again, this time involved in the battle of Zeta Halo

[orchid kettle]

I honestly wonder if our Halo 5 Spartan is supposed to be Crimson as well

or if they're just entirely non-canon, unlike H4 and Infinite

[crimson oxide]

Pretty sure all of 343 multiplayer is considered canon so our spartan does exist it’s just another memeber of a faceless mass of Spartans

[empty bloom]

Not all of it. War Games is a thing in the Halo universe, and some of the same game modes even exist, but the actual events that take place are much different.

[plain fog]

Is it just me or does Halo 3 at the very most take place over the course of 3 days

Sierra 117, Crows Nest, Tsavo Highway, The Storm and Floodgate all take place on the same day

The Ark and The Covenant most likely took place within 24 hours of each other. Cortana took place directly after The Covenant, as in Chief found a banshee and went to High Charity the instant that the mission ended. Then Halo happened, again, the moment Chief and Arby left High Charity

I’m thinking about it all and I don’t believe more than 72 hours passed during the events of Halo 3

[unique rune]

The gameplay stuff is mostly pretty close together, though there's some bits that are like weeks or months apart due to slipspace transit taking a while.

[empty bloom]

It is nowhere near 3 days.

Halo 3 starts on November 17th, 2552.

Halo 3 ends on December 11th, 2552.

Time breakdown as follows;

November 17th is the levels Arrival through Floodgate.
December 11th is the levels Ark through Epilogue.

The actual situations leave a lot of wiggle room for why the UNSC and Sangheili took nearly a month to get through the portal.

[crimson oxide]

I mean to be fair the amount of days fighting was probably that short and those big time jumps would be consolidation of troops and supplies that any military needs for a large operation plus slipspace travel time

[last anchor]

The scene with the Foward Unto Dawn being loaded up probably didnt take a couple hours.

Military logistics are not something you just throw together

[meager pier]

Wonder what they got up to during the long trip, hope they had some games to play & had movie night

[crimson oxide]

I mean I don’t know about the elites but standard operating procedure for UNSC during slipstream travel is cryo for non essential personnel

[stoic hamlet]

Even essential personnel go into Cryo, they just do rotating shifts.

[empty bloom]

@stoic hamlet Hey, do you recall if the livery of the various Clans was noteworthy on the Phantoms they used, or did they just use the standard Banished Red?

I recall one of the Clan's liveries was blue and gold but I can't recall who

[stoic hamlet]

The Keepers.

[empty bloom]

Hopefully someone actually rigs those brute models.

[stoic hamlet]

IIRC one was all black.

And one was muted red and grey.

At least in Shadows of Reach. But I don’t believe it’s ever really made important or known in Infinte.

[empty bloom]

It isn't, I'm just working on a fleet of Banished livery recolors because I really, really love livery being used to denote affiliation.

[stoic hamlet]

I’d ask @rapid river though, he’s more keyed in on the Banished than me.

[empty bloom]

Yey

[abstract yarrow]

What do you think of new lore on Banished invading the Elite homeworlds moon? I think it’s good we’re getting context for what the Banished are. Because we only see them on the Ark and Halo ring I’ve always had the impression people downplay how evil they are.

We don’t see them trying to conquer the galaxy so people are convinced that isn’t their actual goal and Atriox isn’t out for power. Well, I didn’t see no Elites destroy Doisac…

[ruby canopy]

For me, it is hard to say they’re evil

Because they are only doing what every other species/faction has done throughout time. And that is to conquer

What they are doing kind of pales in comparison to what ONI has done to establish and maintain control

[unique rune]

I mean it's not like galactic domination is explicitly the Banished's goal, but like, if it means securing power and resources, sure, they'll put it on their to do list

[empty bloom]

They're evil in the same way the Created is evil; Their existence mostly preys on the existence of opposing empires.

And before you say anything, the Created's entire goal is a noble one-just one fraught with the worst possible means.

Sure, Cortana's willing to blow up a planet to ensure the rest stay in line. But Atriox is fine with having a Halo Ring to hold the galaxy at gunpoint to mug them as he strip-mines them to death.

[abstract yarrow]

Well the Created under Sloan are pretty much the Borg; so yeah. Pretty bad.

I am glad you think the Banished are evil. A lot of people don’t think that. This is all a bluff and misunderstanding by the judgemental humans apparently. He doesn’t really want to use the Halo ring. He’s about freedom so he has to be a nice dude. Cortana did all those bad to him and that’s why the Brutes do bad things. The Brutes were a peaceful people minding their own business before humanity unleashed this AI horror on them.

[empty bloom]

Actually, even under Sloan, it's not too bad.

Sloan doesn't have a mandatory doctrine of synthesis.

Sloan's visible ethos is that of remaking Spartans, undoubtedly under his experience seeing Spartan IVs in operation on Meridian, considering his response to Osiris Team's exploits.

But his actual allegience is that of the normal created, which I will showcase with this simple meme.

https://tenor.com/view/robot-congratulations-you-are-rescued-please-gif-17932648

The Created ethos is a gilded cage with a backing of arms; You exist to be protected by us, and your existence is your privelege, provided by us.

Sloan's goal is the synthetic nesting of that goal with the evolution of human supersoldier projects.

IOW, a 'human touch' to an otherwise autonomous self-defense-and-oppression-system.

It's actually remarkably similar to what Halsey thought when making the Spartans.

[abstract yarrow]

The Chimera stuff is full on making Borg drones that are integrated completely with the Ai. That is essentially the Borg. Plus, they did a lore thing where they heavily implied there was another solution to rampancy and memory storage that wasn’t the Domain. Just saying, one of the non canon origins of the Borg in Star Trek is an AI using the drones as additional memory.

Cortanas faction was, probably given one or two bits of art, meant to be like the Culture. AI managing bio trophies. She’s the Rogue Servitor empire and Sloan is a Driven Assimilator.

[empty bloom]

You're ignoring the big part of Sloan's ethos, which is that he wants to make Executors for the explicit purpose of defending the Created in the same manner as the Spartans.

He doesn't want every human and alien to be an executor.

Only enough to fulfill the act of defense and offense, to a finite count.

Cortana, though, you are absolutely spot-on.

And not a lot of Halo fans really got that.

I do find it absolutely wild that there is a serving MERROW Executor running around, however

A 'hound' of the Created, so to speak.

[dusty ferry]

Wait did they confirm that specifically? I thought it was just the one Executor no armor listed

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, that's just basic intelligence service MO though, nothing really new or extreme there.

[icy yoke]

question of night vision is image enhancement in an age of active camoflague. More the point of relying on sensors beyond visual spectrum like Infrared, UV sweeps

[ruby canopy]

That is true. I only say that, because if the banished are considered evil, then so must the unsc/oni

[last anchor]

As in any good war setting, there is no good and evil; merely sides interested in their survival and victory to certain degree.
Seekers of objectives.

[last anchor]

I hope we see it again somewhere. In visual look would be amazing.

[honest idol]

@empty bloom le funny question, how do you think a monitor would fair in typical space engagements operating alone?

I'm working a little story in my head of a monitor somehow infiltrating and tearing down a covenant ship and thinking about factors like how much of a detection profile they'd have, whether they could cross shielding, etc

[empty bloom]

Compared to a full Covenant ship? Ultimately hard to detect due to scale, though not impossible. I don't think the monitor would reasonably be capable of destroying the ship but the ship could easily onetap the monitor.

Pretty much every single external gun on a Covenant vessel could likely kill a monitor.

[honest idol]

Yeah that's why I'm considering the ability to be detected, since without that and with the far greater maneuvering of a monitor, I feel it could pull off the kind of approach Blue made with their first contact with the Covenant. Only issue is yeah, one tap from most weaponry. Not sure how point defenses would fair, since a monitor can still take a reasonable amount of brunt

[tribal trench]

i don’t think the monitor has any kind of bafflers or anything like that

so unless the metal shell is itself extremely radar absorbent (i don’t think it is) then it could easily be detected by modern radar, covenant detection methods not even mentioned

now that’s also not mentioning monitor supermaneuverability

so it could probably dodge a far enough away plasma blast?

it would have a harder time with a MAC though

[safe mauve]

Guys do stuff like alzheimers and dementia still exist in thw halo verse?

[tribal trench]

now that i think about it… forerunner stealth technology seems… very limited

[dusty ferry]

stealth wouldn't have been a priority for them tbh

they were almost always the top dog in any fight

and by that i mean the disparity between the covenant and the unsc pre mac as a baseline for that difference

[last anchor]

Considering they eradicated cancer to the point where it had to be explained to an ODST? I doubt it.

Humans regularly live into the hundreds, and it seems like if youve got the money you can have entire failing organs replaced (see; Preston Cole getting a new heart and liver)

[honest idol]

Interestingly yeah, I wonder why that is. Only argument I've got for it is that that their presence was always something they wanted known

However, there was a way they hid a Cryptum in the novels, it used a combination of invisibility fielding and mental conditioning imposed on nearby people which prevented them from uncovering an otherwise blatant forerunner ruin. Assuming I remember right

And they had the slipspaced shield worlds, entire solar system sized installations compressed down to 30cm spheres.

So I guess they just went with a by-large hidden in plain sight mentality to stealth

[honest idol]

And nah I don't think so, assuming I remember right MJOLNIR pings Spark on motion tracker pretty reliably. It's probably down to how quickly a ship's crew can spot that one tiny blip and identify it as not a rock

[radiant cosmos]

like what rlly the strength of mjolnir like how much can it take (no sheilds) like samuel died from a plasma shot to his mjolnir (no sheilds) so it doesnt seem so strong but idk?

[pallid knoll]

he didn’t die from the shot, it just burned through enough of his armor that going into space would kill him

[ruby canopy]

Plasma in lore just melts anything, including mjolnir

[empty bloom]

Samuel did not die to the plasma bolt and was not, in fact, going to die of that injury.

Samuel's death was a regrettable choice of self-sacrifice on his part-his suit's vacuum-protective layer was compromised, preventing him from spacewalking back the the UNSC ship that dropped them aboard the Covenant vessel. He voluntarily elected to stay behind and guard the explosives instead of chancing his odds on surviving in space without a vacuum suit.

It's a common misconception.

[empty bloom]

MJOLNIR and even basic UNSC BDU kits are actually both capable of at least protecting against plasma hits-though in the case of the former, these BDU kits mount quick-release straps that allow the user to quickly drop off the now red-hot plating.

Plasma does melt through most things, of course, but MJOLNIR in particular can take dozens of shots across the body and remain at least mostly functional over the course of a singular mission.

For example, Linda's ARGUS-model helmet had a significant portion of its sensory equipment melted away by a Ravager shot in Shadows of Reach, but she was otherwise still combat-capable.

[radiant cosmos]

I mean Linda died (for a while/ she flat lined untill she was saved) from a plasma shot tho

[empty bloom]

Linda had a massive variety of injuries. The plasma shot was the flatlining blow, but she had gotten hit by a lot of plasma even before then.

You also see Jun wiping smoldering paint and presumably protective material off of Jorge at one point in Reach.

In general, plasma isn't going to be immediately lethal to a Spartan in MJOLNIR; The suit has protective heat treatments for a reason.

[carmine sleet]

Linda is also Linda, death will never stop her

[tribal trench]

MJOLNIR motion tracker uses a form of SONAR, not RADAR

[honest idol]

Ah mb

[last anchor]

Doesnt it use both? As well as something requiring a "quantom mirror", as we see Fred cleaning in Ghosts of Onyx?

Salt got on the latter and messed it up

[broken yarrow]

Wort

Elite noises

[light orbit]

Noble 6 walked so Chief could run 🔥🗣️🗣️

[tawny fox]

He took a knee so chief could take a leap

[crimson oxide]

you know i enjoy when the writers be a little silly, apparently one of the writers made a little short story where Buck tricked Yabda (the grunt announcer from halo 5) into believing the way how humans make friends is flirting and trying to seduce them...........and he immeidantly points Yabda in the direction of Locke

[lethal field]

hm, not saying one is pulling ideas from another, but in the campaign where Weapon finds out she's an exact copy of Cortana, and kinda renounces/makes it clear that her actions aren't that of who she was copied from. Reminds me of Crow in Destiny 2 when he finds out who he was before he became a Guardian and professes the same thing regarding who he is vs. who he was

it's kinda hard to not have similarities in general when it comes to creativity really, since that's how things are made, using what we know or learned

i should maybe play the other halo games at some point lol

[ruby canopy]

Would recommend. Would also recommend the first 3 books to fill in some gaps within halo ce and what happens between ce and 2

Ce has a good story for a game from 2001, but it doesn’t really let you know too much of what is happening outside of Chief’s point of view

[lethal field]

what's ce

[honest idol]

Do we know if the shield worlds had a uniform size like the rings, or were they made from any suitable planets based on position?

[honest idol]

Combat Evolved

[lethal field]

oh the first one

i think*

[honest idol]

Yep

[lethal field]

mmk

yeah i mentioned when i first joined the server that the only halo game i have besides infinite is spartan assault, bought it a lbg time ago but haven't played it much

im assuming it doesnt follow the overall main storyline?

weird autocorrect there heh

i think i used to associate halo 1 with Giants Citizen Kabuto for some reason back then ha..

[honest idol]

Spartan Assault afaik is telling its own story, but it's still part of the universe ofc

[lethal field]

or MDk

even tho they prolly are nothing alike

[lethal field]

oki, kinda like titanfall and apex, sorta-ish

or any warhammer game heh

so the Banished are fairly new to the halo games/uni? or did they split off from the covenant or whatever the enemies were in the older games

oh, no heh

reading up on the grunts, i guess they've all been in all the games, just the Banished is like a split faction I guess ?

when i first played the game i thought i was going to get annoyed/irritated by their (the grunts) talking and screams lol

[tropic forge]

Most of them were apparently smaller Dyson spheres with an artificial sun--presumably more like Trove than Requiem, Onyx or Genesis.

[carmine sleet]

The Banished were first introduced to us in Halo Wars 2 as the main antagonists in that game. But in universe, the Banished split from the Covenant near the end of the Human-Covenant War during the battle of Algolis in 2549

Atriox, the leader of the Banished, grew disillusioned with the Covenant when he and 39 other Brutes of his clan were being sent to kill humanity as cannon fodder. He was the only one that came back each time

Unlike the Covenant, they are not motivated by any religious beliefs to do what they're doing, as the Banished are marauders who pillage planets and outposts for weapons and resources

[empty bloom]

Shield worlds lacked a uniform size and method of construction.

By the end of the FFW, at least three types of Shield worlds that I recall existed-A micro dyson sphere, a Conservation sphere, and Requiemesque.

[verbal pollen]

How long was doisac (or however it's spelled- the brute home world) under banished control

[carmine sleet]

The Banished never really controlled Doisac. But even then, the loss of the planet is still important to Atriox because it's his home planet

[verbal pollen]

Interesting
So who ran it after the fall of the covenant? Do Brutes have their own form of a unsc type government?

[orchid kettle]

The Spartan Field Manual apparently suggests that in 2558, Atriox was making great enough strides towards unifying the planet under a single banner that the UNSC started launching operations to try and undermine his progress

[orchid kettle]

Brutes are the epitome of Might Makes Right. Their government has been described as "Various feudal sub-dictatorships".

From the sounds of it, packs fight other packs, the loser pack gets absorbed into the victor, and on and on it goes until you get something the size of the Banished

[carmine sleet]

Halopedia didn't mention that bit about him making strides to unify the planet when I checked

[verbal pollen]

I kinda wondered if they were fairly tribal

[ruby canopy]

I do think the banished operated slightly different from the usual might makes right. While Atriox is one of the strongest it seems, his right hand decimus might’ve been even stronger standing nearly a foot taller than Atriox

Atriox is seen as being pretty smart for a brute, so maybe his intelligence did make him a better combatant than those that were stronger

[orchid kettle]

It's part Might Makes Right, the resources to keep mercenaries on his payroll, and how he's worshipped by some of his followers

Might Makes Right is just especially useful when bringing rival Brute packs to heel

[grizzled lotus]

any interesting thoughts on the skirmishers/jackals

[orchid kettle]

the existence of skirmishers is weird

Because they came into existence after the rings originally fired and the galaxy was reseeded

And the Jackals obviously needed time to develop space ships to go out and colonize T'vao

so the Skirmishers somehow evolved into what we see today in what is surely a thousand years or less

[grizzled lotus]

oh yeah wtf

[empty bloom]

I assume extremely selective breeding may have occured, somehow.

[grizzled lotus]

yeah probably

[unique rune]

probably just a lot of founder effect-y stuff going on

[verbal pollen]

I thought skirmishers were female kig yar lol
Maybe I should go read a book

[pallid knoll]

there are female skirmishers

[dusty ferry]

Could have been an error in one of the reseeding things

[gusty star]

Well considering Halopedia isn’t an official source, I wouldn’t rely on that too much

[empty bloom]

It's still extremely reliable as far as wikis go.

[carmine sleet]

Aye, easily the best fan resource these days

[gusty star]

It’s a great source to find sources, but it doesn’t always have every tidbit of information from official sources in it, so I’m just saying don’t doubt what he’s saying about the Official Spartan Field Manual just because it’s not on Halopedia yet

[abstract wren]

Ency2022 did say it unified the tribes against Cortana. But that doesn't make them "controlled by the Banished"

[dusk jetty]

It’s quite useful and reliable

Much more useful than other wikis

(Looking at you wookiepedia)

[gusty star]

Oh yes it is def way better than other wikis

But not better than official sources

[empty bloom]

Considering individual packs often seem to keep their livery, this checks out.

I wish we'd see more Banished 'packs' with different livery than just the main few red, gray, or black units.

Because you have two more unique options in the blue and yellow (Keepers) and orange (Oth Lodon) paint schemes, which leaves a lot of room for others already, IMO.

[dusty ferry]

that just reminds me of when destiny used to do that.

i still don't know why that was abandoned for the most part once we got destiny 2

i would like to see more unique livery in the next halo game or an update to the Forge AI at some point

[carmine sleet]

My guess is management didn't allow the devs the resources they needed to make the different houses/broods/etc for each faction again. But yeah, sucks they didn't keep that

[carmine sleet]

I want them to make SOS Elites a thing for Forge so bad, even if they're just reusing dialogue from Halo 5

[dusk jetty]

Honestly I wonder if the SOS have any plants/spies in the banished

The ||inverse is true|| obviously

But a SOS sympathiser in the banished sounds like an awesome dlc idea

[last anchor]

Woudlnt be surprised if they did

[knotty marten]

So, I have been wondering why certain Spartan Fireteams get names [such as Taurus or Osiris] but other Fireteams are stuck with colors [Red, Blue, Green, Black, etc.] Like, if someone as significant as John-117 doesn't have a name for his team, but someone like Locke can... it just doesn't make sense to me. Was that just Spartans in a squad getting creative?

[carmine sleet]

Chief's team does have a name, Blue Team

The Spartan II teams had rotating rosters and instead of giving them names like those we see for S-IV fireteams, it's simpler to use basic colours for the names of teams

Though the rosters of Grey and Black teams were more rigid due to the nature of how those two teams operated

[scarlet hinge]

the difference is just one of the Spartan-IIs v. Spartan-IVs; two different organisations doing their teams 20 years apart in different branches of the UNSC

[empty bloom]

It's also seemingly very up to the team what the name is, as crimson is a color.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s not about importance. John wasn’t really important or special until the events of Halo CE.

Spartan II’s - as said by others - didn’t have set or established teams, they used colours and the teams were created in an ad-hoc basis as needed by the missions.

[empty bloom]

I feel like they've been trying really hard to nip that first thought out of everyone's heads.

[stoic hamlet]

John has at times led Red Team, Kurt has led Blue Team. Fred has led Red and Blue Team, etc.

[empty bloom]

And go for 'Chief was always leh awesome'

How many Master Chief stories have there been now?

[stoic hamlet]

Here’s a post that goes over the history of “Blue Team”

(Notice the quotes, they’re important):

https://old.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/sfw9id/the_new_spartan_team_dont_break_canon_even_if_the/

[carmine sleet]

Now you've got me wondering if Kai, Vannak and Riz are part of the game canon's Silver Team (If it does exist in canon)

[stoic hamlet]

Well, they themselves are canon.

Their names were pulled from 343’s internal roster.

But whether they survived augmentation or the Fall of Reach is unknown.

If they did survive augmentation I’d want them KIA’d in the Fall, myself.

[carmine sleet]

Fair

Which I can live with

[stoic hamlet]

We still don’t know the identities of 13 Spartan II’s.

(That were from the original 33 augmentees class and killed in the fall)

[carmine sleet]

It'd leave us with Blue Team, Red Team on the SoF. Omega Team, Naomi and Grey Team as surviving Spartan IIs and I think that's fine

Though Black Team deserved to live if you ask me

Now I am worried that I missed a group of living S-IIs

Though I don't think I have unless James survived being flung into space above Reach but I doubt it

[limpid falcon]

With the release of the "Saturn devouring his son" short story on Halo way point, what are the odds the flood is soon returning?

[empty bloom]

In a meaningful manner, quite low. It's about 3 years before Halo Infinite.

[stoic hamlet]

As likely as we are to see the story of Winter Contention matter, or the “Battle of the Blood Moon” story matter.

If the short story implied something was returning, where’s Rosenda, teased at the end of Winter Contention?

(Etc)

[carmine sleet]

I hope the odds are so low that me being struck by lightning twice in the next five minutes are higher

[unique rune]

a Flood-infected Thom-A293 will appear on the battlefields of Suban in one of Infinite’s 2024 stories
/s

[orchid kettle]

I mean, being selected as the leader of all IIs out of 75 candidates does sound pretty special.

[stoic hamlet]

Tbf, he was made Leader because Halsey wanted him to be.

Mendez had no intention of making him one originally.

[orchid kettle]

I'm also not sure when Chief has ever led Red Team? I know he links back up with the Spartans from Reach in First Strike, but I don't think he ever calls himself part of Red Team henceforth.

It always seems to me that Blue Team was just always the team Chief led until he started going extended periods of time solo

[stoic hamlet]

He leads it during a training mission flashback in First Strike.

Him, Sam, Kelly, Fhajad.

While Blue Team is Fred and Linda.

”I'll have command of Red Team: That's me(John), Sam, Kelly, and Fhajad. Linda, you lead Blue Team."

• Halo First Strike, chapter 17.

[orchid kettle]

mmk

[orchid kettle]

Saying Mendez had no intention also seems a bit misleading, since Fall of Reach did not even hint at the position of squad leader being a thing the candidates were competing for until John was made it.

I know later material will tell us that every other major leader Spartan-II we've seen in the series was a candidate for the position, but I don't recall said material ever suggesting that Mendez had a favorite.

[stoic hamlet]

It did, actually.

Halsey’s Journal (where the material lists Fred, John, Jerome and Kurt as candidates/eventual leaders) mentions Mendez preferred/“bet on” Kurt.

But Halsey was laser focused on John.

[orchid kettle]

grumble gramble

[stoic hamlet]

But to be clear, I get you.

I’m just saying, overall, John wasn’t that special, relatively speaking. Not enough that he would somehow need to make his special team.

[orchid kettle]

I'm just saying, I think it's silly to insist that the main character of the series isn't special in some way, given how much Fall of Reach fellates him.

It doesn't have to be because he's literally Space Jesus, of course

[stoic hamlet]

Sure, but from an in-universe perspective? Until Halo CE he wasn’t anymore well known than any other Spartan.

[orchid kettle]

The way I read it, what makes John "the hero" is his compassion for his fellow man more so than his genetics or anything like that.

[empty bloom]

Another day of lamenting the fact that people were just okay with the genetics thing

[orchid kettle]

The fact that he felt bad about killing other humans at all when we really haven't seen other Spartans express this sentiment (Im sure Naomi has some bit about this in Mortal Dictata but I havent read it)

[empty bloom]

Literally Halo's midichlorians explanation

[orchid kettle]

of course I'm sure now if you asked 343, they'd say Fred, Linda, and Kelly and any other II would have made the exact same choice Chief did in First Strike

because Chief is the template for IIs rather than being his own thing, it feels like.

[empty bloom]

I see nothing majorly wrong with that tbh

[orchid kettle]

Every II is the same character and Chief's defining trait is his vtuber girlfriend

[orchid kettle]

Well, if nobody got fully indoctrinated by the program, you kinda can't help but wonder how much the UNSC sucked at their job.

I dunno, I know in hindsight, when we have characters like Gray Team and Daisy, Chief's rebellious streak of "having sympathy for human enemies" isn't really a big deal

and I guess we just have to assume they all have equal misgivings about killing Innies

[carmine sleet]

Battle for the Blood-Moon is up on YouTube

[orchid kettle]

because Chief is the default

[carmine sleet]

And the art for it featured SOS Elites!!!

[orchid kettle]

(also if Kelly is the fastest spud how did Chief beat her in the first day's race)

[ruby canopy]

I assume it is because Kelly is fastest in terms of a straight sprint, and I think that course had all around style like climbing, etc

[empty bloom]

Okay, seriously, is there a quota for ||Spartan IV deaths|| per short story at this point? This is getting ridiculous.

[unique rune]

response to Infinite’s campaign told 343 that people only care about S-IVs if they get killed so now they’re putting it everywhere they can

[empty bloom]

That's honestly kinda how it feels by now.

Granted, there's only been two short stories, but that's what, 5 now?

Hurts, man.

[unique rune]

Indeed, she had been surprised to learn that even the Unggoy could ascend to the rank of shipmaster upon querying why one of the Zanar-pattern light cruisers attached to their fleet was named Bad Gas.
Incredible

[empty bloom]

That's funny.

I'm not mad about the writing, tbh, except for the extremely strained way that Glyss died.

I'm pretty sure I pulled a hammy reading that.

[stoic hamlet]

Combat scenes seem hard to write for whomever is writing this.

I’m not sure if it’s the same as the one who wrote the flood story, but it’s hard to get any idea of what’s happening. Hard to visualize.

Not saying I can do any better, mind.

[carmine sleet]

I need to know which Grunt is that shipmaster, my hope is Stolt moved up in the world

[empty bloom]

I can get the gist, but yeah, it kinda devolves the longer a fight goes on. Starting out isn't too bad, but...

[stoic hamlet]

I think the combat scenes are kinda ehh, the rest of it is good.

I like that these feel like they’re getting progressively longer, as well.

[empty bloom]

Also, while giving the Spartans 'elite names' was neat, it also kinda makes it harder to parse.

[stoic hamlet]

…..oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[fair hazel]

All of this is like making a set up for more stories and wanting more campaigns

[stoic hamlet]

I somehow completely missed that was even mentioned.

[orchid kettle]

I assume the thinking is that combat scenes can inflate the word count without really adding any l o r e

[empty bloom]

What, the Spartan name thing?

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, just did a reread and noticed the paragraph on it.

[empty bloom]

Aye

[orchid kettle]

you know, female Elite lady is mocking the Prophets' dislike of AI

but uh

[stoic hamlet]

I wonder if the names are portmanteau’s of their own names, or entirely unique names?

[orchid kettle]

it sure seems like AI have a habit of turning against their creators in Halo

[stoic hamlet]

If only Human AI had a friendship and understanding with their human companions - oh no wait, they rebelled too.

sigh.

[orchid kettle]

I assume its to characterize the SoS as entirely free of prejudice because they're the Good Guys

but I dunno, it seems strange.

[empty bloom]

Well, considering the sentiment is also coming from someone who would typically be restricted out of her role by nature of her biology, one could assume it's her own mindset rather than a factional one.

Though, they really do seem a little addicted to making the Swords very goody two-shoes by Halo standards.

Oh wait

The leadership is part of OT franchise history

No wonder.

[stoic hamlet]

And I don’t like it.

I liked that there was friction between the shipmasters/Kaidons in Outcasts.

We should see more of that.

You can’t break literal millennia of conditioning and lifestyle at the snap of a finger.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, it's just kinda the nature of factions that it'd be made up of people aligned with you for a wide variety of reasons

some may even say the "wrong" reasons

Like somebody serving Thel, not really because they believe in anything he says, but just because their clan served Vadam and they're just adhering to tradition.

[stoic hamlet]

At least the Kig-Yar is just in it for the money.

Mhm.

Which is why one of the Kaidon’s came to Thel’s aid in Outcasts. Literally just for his own ends.

[orchid kettle]

yeah, and even the female High Kaidon still harbored some hatred towards humans since she came from Glyke

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm.

[empty bloom]

Wonder how canon the fireteam's comp is.

[carmine sleet]

I hope we see more of her and her Rangers in the future

[stoic hamlet]

More nuanced stuff like that is better than mass painting one faction or another.

Which is kind of wild, because the story even says as much, lol

But then….never really shows it.

[orchid kettle]

What's weird is how it's worded: "Four Spartans from Fireteam Jorogumo"

implying that there's more

but as far as I know, we've never heard of a Spartan-IV fireteam with more than 5 bois

[empty bloom]

I'm gonna chalk that up to the usual stuff.

[empty bloom]

Oh, but we have! They're a buncha real special boys because they showed up in a Bungalow game!

[orchid kettle]

maybe there's just a stinky fifth member nobody likes and he was left behind

[empty bloom]

Oh wait

No

[stoic hamlet]

Well, there was a team in H4 that was like, 8 members. Mountain, I think?

[empty bloom]

I miscounted

A9's... 5 peeps.

[stoic hamlet]

At least going by gameplay.

[empty bloom]

Buck, Mickey, Romeo, Dutch, Gretchen

[orchid kettle]

Urm, they're Mountain Squad

🤓

the Spartan-IVs were really poorly defined in Halo 4, it feels like.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s only thanks to e 2022 Encyclopedia that they even make some sense.

[empty bloom]

I've been hearing the same damn thing for 11 years.

[orchid kettle]

I remember hearing about how Gypsy Company originally was just supposed to be the three IV bois Chief is hanging out with on the Mammoth

Because apparently there was evidence of Majestic once being Called Majestic Company?

or something like that

[last anchor]

Majestic had 6

[orchid kettle]

Not at the same time

Ray doesn't join until DeMarco was transferred and died

[last anchor]

None died in thr Shadow one

[orchid kettle]

I mean, if you have hundreds of Spartans

why not kill a couple every now and then

Honestly IIs only really get a pass these days either because there's so few left, or because a lot of their stories are prequels and you know for a fact that Daisy and Kurt can't die during Silent Storm

I assume as well that Black Team got axed because they were essentially Fred Van Lente's brain child, considering he wrote both stories that featured them.

[stoic hamlet]

I like the implication that one Sangheili might have killed, or seen members of Red Team be killed during the Fall.

[empty bloom]

That's me with the III Gammas tbh

You got like 300~ of them and most don't have names, nothing special about em aside from being IIIs

At least some died I guess, but like, c'mon, you got a whole company of no-names you can spend here

Not to mention having 'he killed a Spartan in the HCW!!!' being a viable career path (Jega, hint hint)

[orchid kettle]

343 is weirdly hesitant to confirm what happened with the Gammas

[stoic hamlet]

323, still alive that we know of, to be exact.

But they only seem to want to focus on what’s left of Saber.

[surreal glen]

You wouldn't want loose ends in the canon would you

[empty bloom]

Screw it, spend em all fighting the Created

I'm sorry, I mean, the greater threat in the Banished

Who are simultaneously everywhere and anywhere in all echelons of society. I wouldn't be surprised if they have (Non-Iratus, human-brain) AI spies in the Created at this point.

[stoic hamlet]

I think it’s because the Gammas are in a weird spot.

Under the right circumstances they’re the best group of Spartans in the fiction.

But they can’t have them actually doing anything substantial, even if they have dozens of targets they could hit with no smoother issues like it’s the HCW again (places like Scarr, or Breaket, etc)

But then they can’t make them too good, because then nothing can really contest them.

And at the same time they want the focus to be on the Chief and Infinity.

The Gammas present a great source of “your dudes” as well.

[empty bloom]

Well, until after 5.

[stoic hamlet]

So they’re in a weird spot overall.

[empty bloom]

TBH the Infinity wasn't even really that involved in 5 either

[stoic hamlet]

At least we know when they began and ended training.

Which is more than we got for the other two companies.

Really, I think it’s also the issue of scale.

343 like small, niche little groups.

The Gammas don’t allow for that.

[empty bloom]

They also like wiping random consequenceless no-names off the map with newly established Banished Bad Dude #58.

I am

Actually kind of salty about it

[surreal glen]

What about Cethegus

The Brute chieftain that challenges you to a duel in the end of The Ark mission in Halo 3

[empty bloom]

What about him? He's dead.

[orchid kettle]

I kinda dig the idea that they have had their big suicide mission, but luckily still had a handful of survivors.

That way they're not rivaling the IVs in terms of member size at any point in history

[surreal glen]

The comic that shows the return of the Didact needs an extended edition
One that actually shows the massacre of Black Team

[orchid kettle]

But they're still around in some capacity

Since the RECLUSE armor set in Halo 5 makes it sound like its a set designed for Gammas

[stoic hamlet]

I think it’s far more interesting from a character standpoint that they don’t.

They “missed their chance to serve”.

Imagine the character potential there.

[orchid kettle]

at least--when I hear about "Spartans who never were" with "peculiar neurological quirks", I assume they're talking about Gammas

[surreal glen]

Oh that armor that made ONI mad

[stoic hamlet]

That’s the heavy implication yeah.

[surreal glen]

The real mystery here is who manufactured the Recluse armor

[orchid kettle]

The issue I have with all of them surviving is just how glaring the gap in information about them becomes. Like, even if you buy the idea that they were "folded" into the Spartan Branch/Spartan-IV program under a false name, that's a pretty sizeable chunk of active Spuds that are 19 year old berserkers

[stoic hamlet]

But IMO, having the company die off-screen would be even worse than them not being involved in things. If they get wiped we need see it.

[stoic hamlet]

Folded into the Branch doesn’t mean they’re part of the organization in any major capacity.

Likely they’re “part of it” but on permanent loan to ONI. For them, nothing changes.

We already know ONI/NAVSPECWAR keeps Spartans on permanent assignments, after all.

I also can’t imagine UNISPECWAR were happy to lose their Super Soldiers.

So I could see them wanting to retain the Gammas in that basis alone.

[orchid kettle]

That's why I think the happy medium is having enough survivors that anybody can keep on dreaming about their Gamma OC

I don't want them gone entirely, but I do kinda want that gap in their history filled.

[stoic hamlet]

I think leaving them “there” but not “in the spotlight” suits them.

They’re the ones who do the dirty jobs the rest of the Spartans no longer can. They’re already off the record, wouldn’t change things at all, really.

Like, yeah. I want the gap filled as well.

But “60% of them died in a mission in 2554” isn’t how I’d fill it, lol.

Not without giving them the send off they deserve.

[orchid kettle]

well personally I'd have some mission in 2552 that was happening concurrently with the Onyx Incident

[stoic hamlet]

Field Manual states they never saw combat during the war proper.

But yeah, I get you.

I just think something like that deserves a novel.

[orchid kettle]

Sure, I don't disagree

And yeah, I don't really see how you could present a mission deadly enough to inflict great casualities on the Gammas without it taking place during the Covenant War

I kinda assume most Gamma OC-havers want their character to have fought in the war anyway

[stoic hamlet]

I guess a sufficiently strong pocket empire.

[stoic hamlet]

not me

Far more interesting that they don’t.

IMO.

(Also I’m just a stickler for canon)

[orchid kettle]

I kinda see the appeal of having your character see action in both time periods

Have that desperate struggle for survival where all odds are against you

As well as partaking in the more morally-gray, politically-oriented missions of the post-war

[stoic hamlet]

Both are compelling for their own reasons.

But I like the lore that they missed it. There’s a lot of great character potential with that. How do they react, how do they cope? How do they carry on? Do they feel shame? Sadness? Anger? Etc.

[last anchor]

Having a Gamma who wanted to fight the Covies but didn't get the chance too and is now vibrating for the chance to stave in xeno skulls is always a good take

Doomguy moment

[stoic hamlet]

“You need to kill all your Innies.”

“But Lieutenant!”

“Ah-ah-ah! No buts! Kill all your innies and maybe we can fight Covenant on the way home.”

“…you promise?”

“Yeah kiddo, I promise.”

“Yaaaay!”

[last anchor]

Basically

[empty bloom]

Most mentally stable Gamma

Honestly though

I cannot, in any form of good conscience, find the concept of Gammas cool.

Alphas and Betas look better by comparison, and that's saying something.

Like, IVs make sense-proven and capable warriors who got through the tail end of a grueling war that humanity didn't win so much as survive, each a living legend in their own right for the most part.

But IIIGs? Yes, we'll just take some already damaged war orphans, and charge them up with genemods that literally mess with their heads even more than the PTSD was.

God, Kurt, you really are out to make the II program even more morally in the pitch, aren't you.

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t think they were ever meant to be cool. Just sad. A showcase of how the war took its toll on humanity, and the lengths a “father” would go to to save his “children”/give them a fighting chance.

[empty bloom]

I mean, in concept, no, but in fanbase, yes.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah the fanbase who make OC’s 9/10 times go way overboard.

[empty bloom]

Though I think Kurt's assertation that the headmods were in any way meant to help them do any more than kill two more Covenant per person was foolish niavete from someone who should truly, know far better.

[stoic hamlet]

lol

[last anchor]

Kurt Ambrose was, and is, kind of a jerk

[empty bloom]

Like, I'd actually get it if Kurt actually let the nonSpartan Ackerson get in his head a bit-take that sorrow from two dead companies, and turn it into spiteful rage mixed with fatherlike concern, thus justifying the brain surgeries.

[last anchor]

But the lore says otherwise?

[empty bloom]

But as it's presented in GOO, it's out of a twisted form of altruism alone.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. The point was to show how emotionally drained and disgusted with himself he was.

He wanted to do more, but he couldn’t, so he took drastic measures.

It’s to soothe his own conscience/attempt to keep him sane.

That’s why he’s contrasted with Halsey at the end of the book.

[empty bloom]

That's fair.

It's more, I think they should've hinted more towards spite being a major factor, especially considering the toll of the conflict and scale.

Like-hypothetically, if I were at the helm, I'd be using a lot more vernacular in tune with more calcitrant and just plain angry beliefs amongst the veteran soldiery.

It's there, sure, but not in force.

Not 'edgelord' Emile, but more in the vein of getting stuck in, come hell or high water. Take every one you can with you into the screaming dark. Every bullet a plea for vengeance and every bombardment a bitter lament for a civilization's dying breaths. Which sounds... Super cringe, I imagine, but I dunno, that sort of desperate last gasp is somehow more 'triumphant' to me in my head in a backwards way.

[stoic hamlet]

I’m not sure I follow? How does this affect the mutagens given to gamma?

[empty bloom]

It's me going on a tangent about the UNSC's mood as a whole.

Because my brain just went on a suuuuper out of nowhere spree and I'm... Not actually sure why.

[stoic hamlet]

Ahhh.

[stoic hamlet]

I agree with this.

IMO I think it’s the wants of 343 clashing with the overall idea of the universe.

[empty bloom]

Well, the lore I'm snarling with, in this case, was Bungie-era. TBF.

We haven't gotten a ton of HCW era stuff from them.

[last anchor]

I see some 40k quotes in there.
Every bullet a prayer of vengeance huh

[empty bloom]

Kinda sorta. The UNSC completely lacks the religious or cultural bents of 40K to purely justify the 'prayer' part, though.

[stoic hamlet]

Prayer doesn’t necessarily imply religious connotation in that statement though.

[empty bloom]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Tomato, Potato.

[last anchor]

It sounds awesome, if nothing else

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, I don't see religion being a big thing in the UNSC. It's there but there is no emphasis on it. I just find it funny and ironic that those that do have a religion are probably questioning it right about now at 2560.

Ok, so why did the UNSC thought it was a good idea to replace the Spkr with some other Rocket Launhcer?

The H5 Rocket Launcher just looks like a tube.

Also, can we talk about how private companies have access to UNSC Mil Spec Equipment?

[carmine sleet]

The SPNKr is literally two tubes that you have to throw away to reload, highly inefficient. Halo 5's pillum is just a superior launcher in every sense. Especially given how easy it is to reload compared to the SPNKr

And weapons have been replaced over the years by better ones in real world militaries

[exotic pulsar]

Yet it didn't feel as powerful as the SPNKr. Call it nostalgia there is just something cool about carrying a rocket launcher like the SPNKr.

[carmine sleet]

Pretty sure they both dealt the same amount of damage in Halo 5

So long as we don't bring in the variants

And honestly, my hot take is that the SPNKr is dumb. Like I said, hate that the reload is throwing away the firing tubes for the weapon. I don't understand why anyone would make a weapon that has you throw most of it away in the reload

Give me the Pillum from Halo 5 any day

[exotic pulsar]

Might be an odd nickpick but I can at least nail my shots close range so why does the alt for Infinite still use a lock on feature that close?

[orchid kettle]

SPNKr is cool

[exotic pulsar]

Also the SPNKr is like a bigger version of the LAW Rocket Laucher except you just need to replace the tubes instead of the whole thing.

[carmine sleet]

That's not going to change my mind on the weapon

Because that just tells me it's slightly more resource efficient than another launcher

[orchid kettle]

Most of Halo's tech is pretty dumb.

But it's dumb in a fun, playful way.

[exotic pulsar]

Also it's called a Pilum. Which is just another name for a Javlin. Ironic considering the real life launcher that is also a disposable weapon.

[carmine sleet]

Sure and for most of it I don't mind, I just really hate the SPNKr

[orchid kettle]

Whenever Halo tries to add things that are more practical and true to reality, it just comes across as insecure to me.

[exotic pulsar]

Honestly that just sounds like you hate fun, because shooting people with a big rocket launcher is fun.

[carmine sleet]

I don't know how you got that conclusion from me disliking how the SPNKr reloads

Because that's a real big jump in logic

[orchid kettle]

I mean, in-universe as well, characters just dump the whole launcher and use a new one anyway

Which if anything is why I appreciate the simpler design of the H1-3 launcher

versus how bulky it gets in Reach onwards

[exotic pulsar]

Honestly I kind of see the fact that the tubes can be removed and replaced as a pro of this system. It means it would be light enough to carry around without the extra baggage.

When one of the rockets is fired, the other is cycled into place; when both have been fired, the operator opens the launcher, removes the twin-tube unit to insert another, and then closes the mechanism around the unit. As such, the M41 is considerably portable, allowing the operator to quickly reload while in combat and greatly reduces the weight he carries without throwing the weapon away.

[meager pier]

Even though they played basically the same, I think Pillum looked way too generic and like a modern rocket launcher
SPNKR looks unique

[empty bloom]

They did. I'm pretty sure there were differences, I just don't specifically recall the nuances of said differences.

[empty bloom]

They answer that question in 5, but common sense would also dictate an understandable response.

[empty bloom]

Also, the Pilum fulfills a seperate doctrinal role from the SPNKr. The Pilum is a lighter and simpler design made for the needs of Army and Marine teams in order to deal with heavy infantry (Knights, Hunters) and light or air vehicles (Phaetons, Ghosts, Revenants) while retaining more mobility than the bulky and clumsy SPNKr, which was still in use and considered obsolete before the HCW even began (being produced since 2481).

The idea of a lot of Halo 4 and 5's tech is that Halo is an evolving world, where tech actually does improve over time and the factions learn what does and doesn't work. It's why MJOLNIR was designed to look and act more ergonomic and modular to make sweeping performance changes, why UNSC ship design greatly improved (Cigar shaped ships with centered rear engines are more structurally sound than mounting engines on off-center nacelles, for example), why the guns implemented more visible backup sights, and why the UNSC's weapons changed significantly instead of staying around to satiate nostalgic fervor in-universe.

(Not that 'significantly' actually means much when Reach had changed Halo's visual identity in terms of human firearms far more than 4 or 5 ever did)

[unique rune]

I think the M41 had a narrower blast radius and there were some differences in rocket velocity but I don't recall for sure

[meager pier]

In Halo 5, Chief lended SPNKR back to the Marathon Security Guard https://marathon.bungie.org/story/CM_trilogy.html

[last anchor]

In lore they serve different purposes too anyway.
Like Trench said the Pilum is a more mobile lighter sustainable anti armor weapon, more useful for tactical deployments against heavy infantry and lighter vehicles. The lore for it mentions it can take dozens of kinds of specialty rounds as well (two of which we see in game in the form of the upgraded variants). Its the swiss army knife of launchers for the UNSC.

The M41, on the other hand, continues to do what it did before; use a 102mm shaped charge rocket to obliterated fortifications, enemy vehicles, REALLY big infantry targets (like Hunters) and large sections of structures. Its not nicknamed "The Jackhammer" for nothing.

I do find it funny that they went back on the design for the M41...but the M6 was dropped entirely for the Sidekick, which looks far more modern and "tacticool" than the M6.

[stoic hamlet]

With one of the new holiday themed models for the BR, it shows we could see more radical weapon models in the future. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see the Pilum return.

[orchid kettle]

I remember hearing about how there was a want for Infinite to feature entirely new weapons in its sandbox

Which I dunno, may explain the Sidekick, Commando, Bulldog, and Pulse Carbine

[last anchor]

Considering the overall changes to the sandbox it makes sense.

Weaponry technology evolving as time goes on is also always a good thing for a military setting, both human and non weaponry advancing showing the passage of time.

Ref; Battletech where we actually see new stuff come along as time goes on and weaponry complexity and power goes up

[orchid kettle]

Im personally not really that invested in the military side of things

If I full control of d a l o r e

I'd probably just simplify everything so we don't have a million assault rifle variants

I like the Commando tho just because it's got that hint of "Oh, its an old CMA rifle"

because in turn-- anything CMA related sounds like it'd end up in the hands of Insurrectionists

and its cooler for Innies to have their own thing versus old MA rifles imo

[stoic hamlet]

As long as it’s done well and doesn’t feel janky and out of place.

looking at you, Résistance

[orchid kettle]

I feel like in Halo tho, we kinda have the issue of the two main factions largely being defined by their technological gap

So reducing that gap imo kinda always runs the risk of reducing the contrast between factions

which granted the only UNSC weapon that feels a bit too wacky for my taste is the Hydra

I love using it, but it's also the only one in the game that doesn't neatly conform to a common shooter archetype like UNSC weapons tend to do

[last anchor]

Its just a more realistic Bolter from 40k.

[orchid kettle]

(the hydra is actually kinda how I always envisioned a more skill-based Needler to work)

(Where you would first have to land an unguided projectile needle, and then you could switch to the more traditional heat-seeking mode)

[last anchor]

So basically the Bullseye from Resistance

[orchid kettle]

I'm a bit torn on whether or not I'd give the Cyclops and other mechs more spotlight

on one hand, sure, the UNSC are the grounded, normal, relatable bois

but on the other

Mechs are pretty cool

Halsey makes a big deal about how the power requirements meant a big exoskeleton could never be practical

But I dunno, the cyclops seems to get around just fine?

[last anchor]

Halsey has an annoying tendency to think shes the absolute best at everything and that what she says is law.
Other people look at her and go "yeah about that doc"

[orchid kettle]

The only thing that makes sense to me is that Halsey's miniature iron man reactor made it possible

But she still figured a bunch of commandos were better off in something more discreet and flexible than a 14 foot tall walking tank

[empty bloom]

Halsey isn't cool, simple as.

She's a big dweeb who can't grasp the coolness of MECHA

[carmine sleet]

She needed to understand that the best way to defeat an enemy is by getting the people on your side into the robot

Like, get in the robot, John

[dusk jetty]

Armored core if it wasn’t mid

[ruby canopy]

To be fair to Halsey. She is, imo, the most important character in the universe for the human species

When she says in halo 4 that her work saved the human race. That wasn’t an exaggeration

[dusk jetty]

She created John, and Cortana, who saved humanity. She gave Cortana to six, who gave her to Chief. Without her, we probably would be dead

*six gave her to Keyes but you know what I mean

But, I think that it doesn’t mean she shouldn’t pay for what she did.

What is justice if not for everyone

[empty bloom]

That is absolutely an exaggeration. It, John, was one large element of a significant effort that, minus the centuries the Librarian's plans took to work (Which... Don't make any sense, of course), required hundreds of lives, hundreds of ships, and hundreds of hours of effort.

John was the one who was (un)lucky enough to have to pull the trigger, but precious few of his efforts in Halo CE-3 were ones spawned of his own design or effort-but rather the events and efforts of others, unrelated to him or Halsey.

The interviewer was absolutely correct in their dressing down of Halsey for having the gall to use happenstance to defend her actions. Chief was intended to be a slayer of dissent at best and a butcher of it at worst, not a sword of survival.

[ruby canopy]

Well I’m not referring to just John. He is a significant part for sure. But I mean the creation of the spartan program and mjolnir as awhile. The IIIs were later built upon her work

[empty bloom]

I don't think she was that important or good there either. The IIIs were made in spite of her earlier work despite being based off of it-done more efficiently by other scientists and medical staff, with more reasonably priced equipment, with similar results, with a greater success rate, which she was mad over. MJOLNIR was mostly viable because she butchered other programs in her wake out of spite and to ensure her place in ONI.

And frankly, the Spartans were not as instrumental in humanity's survival as people like to claim.

[ruby canopy]

And even though they were meant to quell the rebellion. The arrival of the covenant showed just how scary capable Spartans were. That they would have no problem quelling the rebellion, which by the way would have really set back humanity, if not destroyed them, that wasn’t just as simple as squashing some ideologies

[empty bloom]

If we're talking hypotheticals, there's not a chance in hell the Spartans actually solve much more than further political dissent.

It's harder to kill a movement if you insist on being a monster towards it, especially if you never actually address the issue in the first place.

[hot zodiac]

One of them was. And uh, maybe like 2 or 3 more?

[empty bloom]

Not really. The Insurrections were occuring because of the UEG's constant mishandling and increasing control issues in the Outer Colonies, which wanted independence, not further colonialism.

[ruby canopy]

Even if it was more efficient, and they had better results. That all comes from building upon her. She laid the foundation for it

[empty bloom]

The foundation upon a foundation.

The Orion program established very early on that the concept was in use by the UNSC well before Halsey took a crack at it.

[hot zodiac]

Oh I see you're giving Halsey's credit to the Librarian - eh I guess that's the truth

[empty bloom]

Partially-but I'm talking about all the effort of getting Chief even to the position of being on the Pillar of Autumn.

Chief was but one small element of a massive picture. Most of his actions would have failed if he operated alone.

The perspective of the games can blind people to that notion, but the reality of the situation was that Chief was never a one-man-show and frequently got by due to circumstance and assistance making up for where merit, albeit significant, failed.

Most of which Halsey, frankly, was never involved with.

[ruby canopy]

I don’t know if this applies to Spartans. Literal human tanks that ordinary people have zero chance against. I know this comes down to opinion. But I just don’t see how they wouldn’t have saved that situation too. There can be political dissent, just not a full scale uprising that threatens to destroy everything

[empty bloom]

People have tried to permakill movements before. Hell, people do it now. Spartans can't be everywhere at once, and the shackles that bind have beds they sleep in.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, for as much as Trautmann and Nylund talk about how the Spartans needed a reason for existing before the Covenant war happened

Their solution isn't the most graceful

[empty bloom]

Also, humans absolutely stand a chance against Spartans.

I'd love to see a Spartan survive a stolen stanchion to the gut.

[hot zodiac]

I actually give a lot of credit to Cortana, but there were literally times when it was just Chief. Also, isn't Chief itself part of the Librarians grand planning?

[empty bloom]

I honestly consider that entire sequence author fiat, which is why I'm ignoring it.

I hate Halo 4's story because of that establishment.

[orchid kettle]

It'd probably make more sense if human space was already split between a couple major peer factions who have been warring against each other for decades

[empty bloom]

#balkanizetheueg

[hot zodiac]

But... you were the one who brought it up?

[empty bloom]

As something I'm ignoring. Did you miss that part?

[orchid kettle]

and then humanity was only ever united when the Covenant appeared

thus leading to the UNSC's creation

[hot zodiac]

I suppose I did!

[empty bloom]

It, John, was one large element of a significant effort that, minus the centuries the Librarian's plans took to work

The minus is saying 'ignore that part'.

[empty bloom]

Sins of a Solar Empire moment.

[ruby canopy]

They have, and I understand that they aren’t exactly machines that can keep running 24/7. But humanity has never seen anything like this. 1000 lbs ,7’ tall, fast as a car, stronger than anything imaginable, and quiet as a mouse

[hot zodiac]

What I dislike most about the "Librarian's plan" is the fact that parts of that existed in much cooler ways

[empty bloom]

Cool, I'm going to go shoot the Governor who's making my life hell. I don't care what the Spartan does.

Can't get a gun? I got fertilizer.

The harder you squeeze an insurgency, the more it slips through the cracks.

And the more you justify reprisals.

[hot zodiac]

Humanity was being guided by the Forerunners, and Chief is this inexplicable hero, and all that was kinda subtextual

[orchid kettle]

There's also a bit in Silent Storm where Chief and his ODST pals got ambushed by some M41 machine gunfire, with armor piercing rounds

and if Chief was the first to drop like he had wanted, he probably would have died or been severely wounded

[empty bloom]

Politics is fun.

[meager pier]

The way I see it, Halsey is an awesome character, but not a very good person

[empty bloom]

My problem is when people see her as a good person when she's morally deeeeeep gray.

Best intentions pave highways for a reason.

[orchid kettle]

I think some people are just too quick to accept her copium

Because if you don't, then the Spartans are kind of a bummer

Though it's not as wack as the subset of fans who claim the IIIs were never suicide soldiers

and that the overwhelming casualties Alpha and Beta suffered were just, I dunno, flukes.

[dusk jetty]

It’s literally said they they are trading lives for time in ghosts of onyx

That’s… literally suicide soldiers

[orchid kettle]

🤷‍♂️

some people really just want to sand away any and all edges I guess

[unique rune]

It's not inaccurate but I feel like it still kinda mischaracterizes them a little
Like it gets into people's heads that they all only went on one mission and immediately died

[orchid kettle]

Well, Alpha went on a whole three missions and then died

They were only really operational for nine months before PROMETHEUS

[vivid oak]

James ackerson is confirmed to be in the season 2 of the halo TV show and I bet you he’s gonna be an antagonist

Cause in the lore he did try to kill chief and he hates Spartans II’s

[unique rune]

I dunno at the end of the day I think "suicide soldier" just makes it feel like. The point was that they'd die? And it's moreso "some of you may die but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"

[stoic hamlet]

They went on more than three missions. Mamore, Constantinople and the Fleet action were just three examples given.

[unique rune]

They're supposed to be expendable Spartans, yeah, but not expendable in the same sense that we'd look at a kamikaze pilot or a kaiten torpedo operator

[stoic hamlet]

The Rear Admiral gestured at floating holographic panes that contained after-action reports, still shots of battlefields filled with Covenant corpses, and ship damage-assessment profiles. "The insurrection of Mamore," he said "that nasty business at New Constantinople, actions in the Bonanza asteroid belt and the Far-gone colony platforms, and half a dozen other engagements—this reads like the campaign record of a cracking good battalion, not a company of three hundred. Dammed impressive."

• Ghosts of Onyx, chapter 8

[orchid kettle]

How did they have 9 missions in nine months

did Nylund forget that it takes time to get places in Halo

[pallid knoll]

1 mission per month

[stoic hamlet]

The Field Manual implies it might not have been the entire company. That they grouped together for PROMETHEUS.

Alternatively, the “Far-Gone Colony platforms” and the asteroid belt could have been in the same system.

[orchid kettle]

Well that kinda loops back around to what I was saying

just in any one Alpha's perspective, they did a couple missions, and then they died

[lofty silo]

It’s weird Ngl. Luckily the TV show isn’t cannon rather it’s just a halo multiverse. Giving the writers infinite freedom to write anything and everything whatever they feel like at the time.

Multiverse is a writers favourite thing and a researchers nightmare.

You can plug wet dreams and fan fiction into a production and make it cannon in accordance to the multiverse.

[vivid oak]

Yea true yo

[lofty silo]

Why everything after Halo 3 nothing is cannon.

I’m still under the inclination to believe the trailer where chief is held captive on requiem and is being interrogated by the Didact to be the legit actual cannon.

Everything that happens in Halo 4, 5, and infinite and the Halo TV series; to be either a deep dive into chiefs mind. Or everything is in the multiverse

[boreal bane]

4, 5 and Infinite are in the same timeline as CE, 2 and 3. They're all the same canonical timeline

TV show is its own canon in the Silver timeline

[lofty silo]

Infinite timelines. Everything is cannon and yet nothing is. Just as there’s no such thing as the truth. And reality is subjective.

[boreal bane]

There may be infinite timelines, but officially we are only working between 2 right now

[lofty silo]

What’s not to say that down the road 4,5, and infinite are no longer timeline canon to main games

[empty bloom]

What an awful road that would be.

[boreal bane]

That's a future discussion then, right now they are canon to the main timeline

[hot zodiac]

Oh man, a timeline cannon? That's some crazy stuff.

[empty bloom]

I can't imagine being inclinced to view that as anything but cowardly.

[lofty silo]

But why though?

It’s about creative freedom or creative license

[empty bloom]

Oh, so creative freedom is about caving to whining bungalow herds.

I see. I have apparently been horrendously misinformed.

[hot zodiac]

Hey, if there was anything Halo 4 and 5 weren't lacking, it was creative license.

Whoooole lot of creative license.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I think 4 was actually lacking it extensively.

5, on the other hand, was a great idea marred by too short a story and too many moving parts at bad times.

[last anchor]

And too many cooks I the kitchen

[empty bloom]

Either way, people who think that Halo should be reset to 3 infuriate me. Honestly the lowest common denominator of Halo ''fan'' in my eyes.

[lofty silo]

Well sorry you feel that way

[empty bloom]

Hell, resetting it at all.

[hot zodiac]

And it doesn't even solve all the stuff that happened 100,000 years before Halo 3!

[lofty silo]

One cohesive story like 1, 2 & 3.

[empty bloom]

Nice joke.

[hot zodiac]

Who said I was joking? :P

[empty bloom]

Still crazy that 5's advert team and campaign team weren't communicating that much tbh.

[empty bloom]

Not you.

[lofty silo]

I said bad word now Trenchbird hate me

[hot zodiac]

Eh, you're probably low on the list.

[empty bloom]

You suggested extremely bad idea.

And that's as common as water.

To hate a specific drop of water in an ocean of bad ideas is a waste of time.

[hot zodiac]

Modern Halo story places are very entrenched in certain ideas. Don't worry about it.

[last anchor]

Hard resets never work anyway

Look what happened to Star Wars LOL

Legends was salvageable. Easily. But Disney took the simple way out

[dusk jetty]

Sergeant Johnson says to read a bunch of books to answer questions

Or in other words “that’s classified”

[lofty silo]

I got plenty of halo books. They lost me after Halo 5. Then I stopped buying entirely

[hot zodiac]

Nah that's a bad example. Unless they were willing to make weird adaptations for the movies, Legends stood no chance. And The Clone Wars was already eating it up.

[dusk jetty]

How can a story be cohesive if I have to read a book to answer a question of what happened to lead to the current situation

[zenith dew]

Are the covenant masters canon

[dusk jetty]

Also Rubicon protocol doesn’t count because you have the audio logs

[empty bloom]

Infinite moment

[dusk jetty]

Eeh, infinite suffers from it a little

[surreal glen]

You tell me

[dusk jetty]

Not as much as two

[surreal glen]

Halo 2 doesn't explain at any moment how Johnson survived CE and is back

You have to read a book to get that

[dusk jetty]

That’s classified

[surreal glen]

Yeah that's not classified, that's a plot hole

[dusk jetty]

A classified plot hole

[surreal glen]

And yes, it's a cohesive story

Needing a book to be understandable doesn't mean it isn't cohesive, it means it's part of an extended universe

I would give it to you that it is not cohevise if they books were written after the game came out, because then you could say they were written solely to explain the plot holes
But no, the books necessary to understand Infinite came out before Infinite

(Not that you'll be that lost in the story if you didn't read then anyway)

[lofty silo]

Unfortunately we’ll never see another Halo Wars game ever again

That much I’m aware

[surreal glen]

*Fortunately

[lofty silo]

Unfortunately

[boreal bane]

Can't say that for certainty

[lofty silo]

Not everyone is a mindless Fortnite, Titanfall, CoD, Halo 5 player.

[surreal glen]

I only play 1 of the 4 listed

[lofty silo]

Hopefully there’s more. The Spirit of Fire’s story and the cinematics are amazing

[last anchor]

People said we wouldn't have a other after the first.
Then we had 2.
Presumably we will have a 3 someday

The Spirit is still active in the lore anyway so

[surreal glen]

Yeah

Creative Assembly wasn't fired or anything

[last anchor]

They're having a bit of issues with another game but that's their fault lol

Total War be like

[dusk jetty]

Very broad brush to paint with

[lofty silo]

Point I’m making is that some people love strategy based games.

[dusk jetty]

Don’t name call then

[stoic hamlet]

Even among strategy games, I’d say HW is pretty lite. It’s more like a MOBA.

[empty bloom]

Only brainlets at Halo 5 call it mindles.

:>

Jussayin

[empty bloom]

Honestly, that's the biggest reason I never much could get into Wars.

It's not that I think it's bad, the presentation just was enough to get me through a campaign. But if I want to long haul an RTS, I gotta love its presentation and potatos and story.

[crimson oxide]

I feel like Halo wars could have been so much more if they went with PC exclusive and let full base building instead of having socketbases that were born of the 360 restrictions

Hell I think with current technology it would be pretty easy for full base building if a halo wars 3 ever came out

[fleet cove]

I dislike halo wars it's just kinda unnatural to me then again I deleted it after 5 minutes

[empty bloom]

Boy, didn't even want to give a chance, huh.

[fleet cove]

Yeah

I just could not stand the controls

[stoic hamlet]

I think it would have worked best as like, an EndWar style game, myself.

In terms of presentation.

[empty bloom]

I loved Endwar.

[fleet cove]

It might be playable on PC

[tropic forge]

Halo Wars is an impressive simplification of the standard RTS fare, and felt reasonably good to play on a controller which is neat for an RTS of the era....but that simplification also make the game play really shallow.

I think you could get a really great RTS out of Halo by emulating Empire at War.

[fleet cove]

I disagree with good on controllers part

[tropic forge]

Empire at War also fairly simple as RTS games go, but the dual Space/Land adds a lot to the gameplay.

[tropic forge]

I was actually really impressed with how little frustration I had after playing through Halo Wars on console. It was never as good as the keyboard and mouse, but it worked and felt responsive enough.

[meager pier]

lol https://fxtwitter.com/halo/status/1729691400394908067?s=46&t=7Cro0-1vUKeMwTBmMHkJsg

[sand heron]

been watching the Halo tv series lately and.... does this take place in an alternate freakin universe? it doesn't really make sense with what i understand about halo lore. and who the hell is kwan ha and why is she so damn annoying

[native coral]

Yes. The tv show is its own separate timeline & story

[last anchor]

Silver Timeline.

[meager pier]

The show’s non-canon, part of the “Silver Timeline”, not that this is part of some multiverse, just its own take on the Halo universe

[dusk jetty]

Which makes sense because they allude/reference/namedrop some things that would not make sense whatsoever in the current timeline

Like Upsilon protocol

[empty bloom]

IIRC it's something along the lines of the UNSC getting attacked by the Covenant a decade later than they did.

With some additional stuff like Halsey being even more amoral than she already was.

[dusk jetty]

The AI creation process is… strange in the silver timeline

[meager pier]

Chief got neuralink 😝

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, I don't really like the Halo TV show but that is pretty much a given.

All they had to do was follow the games and books but somehow managed to mess that up.

Honestly I just find the insurrectionists in Halo just uninteresting. They are just....there.

Human-Covenant War is happening, and yet they still decide to try and derail the UEG when they got the Covenant knocking at thier doorstep.

[empty bloom]

What, you thought just because war's on that people are gonna stop being pissy?

You don't solve the underlying problems short of falling out of focus of the UEG just because the Covenant hate humanity.

As far as most Innies were concerned, the UNSC and UEG by extension could die in a fire.

[exotic pulsar]

The war is literally one about the survival of humanity as a species. You would think fighting the aliens that is trying to wipe out your kind out that would take priority over hitting the local UNSC communications array.

[empty bloom]

Most Insurrectionists were locked out of the loop far enough to not know or not care.

[exotic pulsar]

Even those that knew still chose to hinder the UNSC. That's crab mentality.

[empty bloom]

The fact the Covenant actively tried to use these orgs as a weapon against the UNSC through middle men like Jackal Pirates did not help matters.

[empty bloom]

You know what humans are really good at?

Having crab mentality.

What you think is logical and sane and rational doesn't matter. They don't give a damn. They are not beholden to rational action or thought made by a fourth party such as a story reader.

You're reading a story about people, and people are deeply, intrinsically flawed.

[exotic pulsar]

You know what we are also good at? Putting aside our differences when the collective is threatened. Yeah Red and Blue states argue all the time here in America but as soon as someone lands troops on american soil I bet my left leg that californians will be fighting side by side with floridians.

[empty bloom]

Not nearly as much as you'd like to think.

It's a HFA story if I've ever heard one, with all the ignorance of human culture that it implies; the popular choice of belief is that humans play nice against collective threats, but the reality is far less uniform.

Jockeying for advantage, joining long enough to plant a knife in your benefactor's back, doing it to spy and reverse engineer and profit, or even ignoring it outright and sabotaging efforts because it isn't in line with your subgroup's ideology; Even in the most existential forms of threat, people will always be going against a unified cause for one reason or another, even if it isn't in their best interest. People will backstab and betray in a prison camp where all people are worked to death for a moment's breath.

For every member of the United States who would want to unify and rally in an invasion of the US Soil, there will be others who fully intend to capitalize on the confusion and try to carve out a niche. For every peace talk between governments, there is a terrorist organization seeking to derail or deride.

Humanity's ability to confederate under a mutual threat is an ideal it has never lived up to.

[exotic pulsar]

You say that, but didn't the US and Britian basically side with the Soviets during WWII and they were like what? The second bad guy on the global scale?

[empty bloom]

And both sides were immediately wanting to kill eachother the moment the war ended. The US had considered continuing the war to stamp out communism and the USSR saw the west as an idealogical threat in turn.

The USSR also started the war on the side of the Germans, carving chunks of Poland. They attempted to back out of the deal they had with the Nazis to gain an advantage, and started to lose ground to the German's insane counter offensive following that.

[exotic pulsar]

Though doesn't that kind of prove my point that humanity despite our differences, will work together if there is a greater threat?

[empty bloom]

No, it doesn't.

Russia's history with world wars is spotty. They had to back out of WW1 due to their own people turning on them, for example-an affair that led to the USSR.

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah I read about that.

Pretty messed up what they did to the Tsar and his family. Some would say he had it coming.

[empty bloom]

It also cost the country even more dearly in the decades that followed.

Against the country's best interest, even good leadership was culled.

Russia also actively downplayed the amount of US support it received, even saying US made equipment was USSR-produced-so distrustful of the west that they happily lied about the support they got, downplaying and gaslighting the entire time.

[exotic pulsar]

Ok, so let me just theorize here real quick. Say that the Covenant did win and wiped out the UNSC, but never could start the Great Journey due to a last final effort that actually destroyed the Ark and wiped out The Flood for good. Then what? The Covenant isn't just going to leave the rest of humanity alone.

[empty bloom]

Most of the UEG didn't even know about the Halo arrays, let alone the insurrectionists knowing about the Halo arrays, until after the end of the war.

[exotic pulsar]

They literally marked Humanity as nothing but vermin that needs to be wiped out. The Covenant isn't just going to stop at the UNSC and the UEG.

[dusk jetty]

With the exceptions of installations 03, 04, and 05.

[empty bloom]

Most insurrectionist cells still against the UNSC were too delusional to believe they could reasonably be in the crosshairs of the Covenant. After all, space is a big place and there is a lot of places to run.

[dusk jetty]

Funny, they’re all in order

Just noticed that

[empty bloom]

There's plenty of ways a terrorist cell could rationalize their ideology and actions. Not all of them make sense.

[exotic pulsar]

In this scenario 04 was already destroyed and 04B was never made as the UNSC set off a Nova Bomb or two as a last ditch effort to deny the Covenant access to the whole array.

With The Ark destroyed, there would be no way for them to get the Rings off Standby phase.

[empty bloom]

There are people who were perfectly willing to turn themselves into bombs for a cause that views them as expendable for the purposes of the cause's victory against a nation that could turn theirs to glass. Hell, that alone speaks volumes.

[dusk jetty]

Humanity would be completely scattered. The covenant would be hunting remnants for years. But they would eventually realise that the prophets were lying sooner or later.

[empty bloom]

Even the Sangheili were split against their better judgement. Half still wanted to continue the cause of wiping out humanity.

[dusk jetty]

That’s the thing about humans. The odds don’t matter in the face of determination and passion. They still exist anyway, but they are ignored.

Elites knew this, they experienced and witnessed it

In a twisted sort of way, Telcam and his followers were right

Humanity would eventually wipe them out, be it retribution or simple expansion

[empty bloom]

Wonder when Halo will hit Star Trek era.

My guess is 3000 something.

[exotic pulsar]

Well they did seem rather dedicated to wiping us out of the galaxy. You would think that a rebel at least for awhile, would stop fighting their government when they got an entire new threat in their backyard that wants to wipe both of them out and they don't care who is allied to who.

You can tell I played to much World of Warcraft because that has been the plot for years and only just recently has the Alliance and Horde actually made peace.

[empty bloom]

Some rebels did, tbf. Kinsano (The pyromaniac from Halo Wars 2) actually sided with the UNSC despite her crimes because her cause was less insane than most others, or less isolationist.

Just not all.

^This lady

And her hotrod of a Cyclops suit

Get it

Hotrod

DOHOHOHOHOHOHO

[exotic pulsar]

wow, that is actually cool.

I'm rather glad that the UNSC didn't completely throw out the idea of mech suits despite mjolnir being a thing.

I was giddy when I saw the Mantis. Kind of wish it was back in Infinite but it would need different weapons.

Machine Guns and Rockets are kind of bland.

I feel like that multiple rocket launcher should be replaced with either a Railgun or a Gauss Cannon.

[empty bloom]

I want a Mantis with smoke launchers, a Gauss repeater, and gauss cannon.

Hell, I'd take double Hog guns.

Brrrrrrt.

[exotic pulsar]

Double Vulcans would make it ineffective against heavier vechicles like the Wraith and Scorpion.

[dusty ferry]

So… the fully upgraded one from wars 2?

Or the Hannibal one

[empty bloom]

It already wasn't effective against a halfway competent scorp.

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, I never got that. Somehow private corporations are able to have access and afford UNSC MILSPEC Equipment.

[dusty ferry]

Well, they nominally own colonies so they do need local militia equipment

[empty bloom]

Oh, that actually makes perfect sense, and 5 actually has Tanaka lay out why.

[dusty ferry]

And that would need to be effective against former covenant raiders

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, TBH I always saw the UNSC as a far reaching military organization so they would have personnel and equipment on every planet.

[empty bloom]

So basically, Spartan Tanaka in 5 points out that in the wake of the Human Covenant war, mining ops aren't actually done in a legitimately safe environment; Ex-Covenant, Banished, and human pirates alike all prey on corporate mining operations. The military hardware is meant purely for a company to ensure its own survival, as the UNSC was in dire straits with depleted reserves after the HCW (Which is why they dug too deep in Saturn Devouring His Son).

[exotic pulsar]

Dug to deep and now we got a flood infected spartan in a slipspace capable condor.

Yes, I still believe that.

[empty bloom]

Can't be a Spartan, infected Spartans don't have brains to scream back.

[dusty ferry]

Also said condor probably couldn’t even slipspace that far anyway

[exotic pulsar]

If it was just one infected human that really isn't much of a threat.

[empty bloom]

Anyways, the production capacity is there and plenty of weapons are mothballed from end of war production, even if Scorpions are shocking to find in frontier caches, but the manpower and influence to get those fleet ops there isn't. So the companies buy surplus and new equipment then hires civilian guards, because waiting for a UNSC option just isn't enough.

[dusty ferry]

It’s probably floating into a star right now

[exotic pulsar]

I hope not.

[empty bloom]

If it didn't die to the nuke (I assume it did)

Or, my last thought was that it actually ended up infecting the Saturn and killing it off.

By way of the Saturn going wildcat.

But frankly

I'd rather talk about postwar corporate security

Because that's less discussed.

[dusty ferry]

We get like no lore about those corporate super soldiers

Who are they

What makes them different from Spartans

[empty bloom]

Well, we know that Spartans likely do operate in that same role, as MIC affairs are UNSC affairs are Spartan affairs.

[dusty ferry]

Is there an augmentation level difference

[empty bloom]

Most likely.

[exotic pulsar]

I don't even think they are super soldiers. Probably mercs or HCW Vets.

[dusty ferry]

Yeah, but we’ve never been given much clarification on that subject

[empty bloom]

Mhmmn.

Well, we do know the Innie supersoldier bat helmet was just for fun

It's not canon

[dusty ferry]

Like I’d assume they probably are like Orion tier based solely on logic

[empty bloom]

But then, vampire not-Spartans was a silly idea anyways

[exotic pulsar]

YEah, I personally don't see these private coperations having access to the same kind of sugments that can turn an adult human to a Spartan.

[empty bloom]

Well, we know IV design deets were leaked at least in part.

And ONI's been trialing more Spartanesque things since before the HCW.

[orchid kettle]

the supersoldier, the salvager, or the carrier?

[exotic pulsar]

Yes.

[orchid kettle]

Mirage's description says you don't need super extensive augmentations to use it

[empty bloom]

That was also true of SPI.

[orchid kettle]

which I dunno, the way its worded makes it sound like you still need some augs

[empty bloom]

And Hazmat/Osteo is also made for nonaugmented users first and foremost.

[dusty ferry]

Yeah but I’m looking at the one mjolnir from halo 5

Forgot which one it was

[orchid kettle]

Air Assault's body mentions that Delta-Six normies were looking to use the suit

but decided not to because it was too expensive

[exotic pulsar]

TBH, we would be having a lot less flood around if every hazmat unit, spartan and unaugmented, was equipped with the gallows visor.

[orchid kettle]

Technically, you only really need the reinforced bones to use Mjolnir

so you don't die

The enhanced reflexes is for if you actually want to use it well

[empty bloom]

Teishin.

[dusty ferry]

Yeah that one, thanks

[empty bloom]

Designed for a new breed of augmented soldier serving in paramilitary and clandestine agencies, TEISHIN suits are at the cutting edge of privately developed powered assault armor technology.

[orchid kettle]

since otherwise you'll apparently just move too fast for your own brain to comprehend

[empty bloom]

Lmao

[orchid kettle]

the chat filter strikes again

[empty bloom]

Forgot where I was.

Damn you, Alpha

[exotic pulsar]

I feel so bad for the guy who decided to twist his body and it did a 180.

[orchid kettle]

if its any consolation

[empty bloom]

Anyways, I don't think it actually means corporate supersoldiers.

I think it means something closer to ONI dealings.

[orchid kettle]

Cyclopses and Green Machines are cooler anyway

[dusty ferry]

I love how the green machine itself is canon, but we have no idea where or how

[empty bloom]

Raijin also does something similar to Teishin. "The RAIJIN next-generation powered assault armor leverages the latest exoskeleton advances and Mjolnir BIOS extensions for a new breed of super-soldier serving corporate and government interests."

[exotic pulsar]

I mean I guess as they do tingle that part of my brain that just enjoys big stompy mechs. It's why I love Battletech.

[orchid kettle]

honestly the Cyclops sounds crazy advanced for being a 26th century forklift like we saw in HW1

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/hulk-hogan-macho-man-mega-powers-unite-gif-12487008

[dusty ferry]

Heck yeah

Mecha

[orchid kettle]

it reads your mind, you technically wear a smaller exoskeleton underneath to control the mech with your actual limb movements

[dusty ferry]

So, it’s a jaeger from pacific rim?

[exotic pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/macross-battle-robot-gif-13928459

[orchid kettle]

Now if only they armed the things decently...

[empty bloom]

Also @exotic pulsar yes that is what I meant

Regarding the DM

HFY, not HFA

[orchid kettle]

We've known for a while the Scorpion interfaces with your neural implant

The encyclopedia confirmed the Mantis and Cyclops have the same feature

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah it does, but that would mean EVERY marine would be required to have one to drive it.

[empty bloom]

They do.

Well, the ones who specialize in that duty do.

[orchid kettle]

You may need a special neural implant to do so

[dusty ferry]

I was focusing on the internal exoskeleton thing

[empty bloom]

Hell, that's what makes Enigma special, because it wasn't meant for Spartans in the first place, they just secured a production run.

[orchid kettle]

There's some lore tidbit about a vehicle crew specific neurolinks

Im just sure Spartans have that upgrade as a standard thing

[exotic pulsar]

Imagine having a tank that is just as good, if not better then modern tanks, and all you need to operate it is ONE person.

[orchid kettle]

but your average Marine wouldn't

so Private Timmy can't just run off with the tank

[empty bloom]

Terrifying, to be honest.

There's a lot of reasons that's bad, lmao

For the tanker

[orchid kettle]

if you die in the tank

you die in real life

😱

[empty bloom]

Hopefully, they have dumb AI that covers blindspots and such.

Because that's kinda half the reason you have big crews in a tank

Is visual and combat coverage

[exotic pulsar]

That wouldn't make sense TBH when it comes to a logistical standpoint. What if in the heat of battle you need that scorpion up and running NOW, and no one in your group has that special type of neural interface?

[empty bloom]

Oh, that actually makes a lot of sense.

Not every joe schmoe is capable of driving a tank.

Every crew member of a tank usually knows how to do at least part of the other jobs, but it's pointless to specialize your entire military in the avenue of being able to do every role. You specialize your people because it's the most effecient way to run your military.

[exotic pulsar]

Well I imagine in UNSC basic training, Marines are taught how to operate every vehicle they got in the field.

[empty bloom]

Not really.

That's actually really hard to do and would take wayyyyy too much time.

Not to mention being incredibly superfluous.

[dusty ferry]

That’d be like 200 different vehicles in the navy

[exotic pulsar]

As it makes no sense only a certain amount of marines kno how to drive a Warthog, while another set of merines only know how to operate the Vulcan on said warthog.

[empty bloom]

Those are more basic things than learning to drive a tank.

It's reasonable to expect everyone to, for example, know how to drive a car or ATV.

[orchid kettle]

To be fair, I think driving a Warthog IS a confirmed basic training thing

[empty bloom]

I mean, for many military positions IRL, a driver's license is a need.

[orchid kettle]

Gage in Dirt complains how in the CMA, all he learned how to do was shoot a gun and drive a warthog

so I imagine the UNSC is at least that level if not superior

[empty bloom]

As a mechanic, I'm expected to be able to drive every non-aircraft vehicle in the Air Force enough to get it into a shop.

[exotic pulsar]

Imagine needing a drivers liscence first just to be able to even drive said warthog. Unless that's waved away in Basic.

[empty bloom]

I mean, learning to drive the warthog is likely how you get the license at all.

[dusty ferry]

Nah, they make you do drivers Ed while the guy on the back learns how to use the turret

[orchid kettle]

The Hog is also probably just a part of everyday life

[empty bloom]

^

[orchid kettle]

its just the Halo Car

[exotic pulsar]

It's more then just the Halo Car.

[empty bloom]

As for the gun, I imagine it's only the more specialist turrets that need to learn the gunner seat's position, like Gausshogs and rockethogs. Those are more specialized vehicles.

[dusty ferry]

At minimum in the postwar