lore-and-universe

[last anchor]

Presumably, since its attached to the Executor, it can be controlled manually as an offensive weapon.
Resulting in the rather amusing image of an Executor holding its arm out while throwing it back rave-style while frying opponents from above

[exotic pulsar]

Right, so that Infected Spartan being loose for four years is a REALLY bad scenario. We have seen what the flood can do in an afternoon.

@violet silo You have to remember that Spartans are very lethal, and even then The Flood doesn't even have to necessarily kill a victim to infect it. The infected Spartan could land in a populated city and quickly spread the flood around just by wounding people.

[steel stone]

I think its trying to go to the Ark since thats where the Gravemind would be

[exotic pulsar]

That doesn't make any sense as The Gravemind isn't just a single being. It's a collective consciousness so you can have multiple graveminds but they all would be the same one.

[violet silo]

Yeah I recognise that, and aside from that, the infected spartan wouldn't be much of an issue in the long run if there's no Gravemind to controll it.

[steel stone]

I dont know much about the Graveminds lore I just know hes a bunch of dead bodies merged together making a super smart being

And I gotta hes very smart guy

[exotic pulsar]

The Gravemind that we killed in Halo 3 isn't dead per say due to the flood being a collective consciousness.

[violet silo]

There can be several graveminds if I'm not mistaken, didn't Zeta Halo actually have several during some point in the Flood- Forerunner war?

[exotic pulsar]

It did, but they were all the same gravemind.

[steel stone]

You never see the Gravemind in Halo 3 where was he?

[violet silo]

Yeah they were, but like, there were several "bodies"

[exotic pulsar]

He was in High Charity.

Which got severely damaged by the ring firing.

[steel stone]

I know that but where was he in High Charity? you just heard his voice which was odd

[exotic pulsar]

As for an Infected Spartan in an urban environment it would be a HUGE issue both short and long term. Imagine how many civilians it could infect in just mere moments? It doesn't even need to kill them just get the flood spore into the body. Local PDF forces would be as useful as a screendoor on a submarine against an infected Spartan.

[violet silo]

Anyway, from my recollection of Flood lore, without a nearby gravemind flood entities will start grouping together to form a Proto-gravemind, what we see in Halo CE.
When a gravemind form it will assume controll of flood in a large area around it, we kind of see this in Halo 3 as we "ally" with the flood to stop the firing of the rings.

An infected Spartan would undoubtedly be more succesful at infecting a city, or start an infection. However in a feral state it's likely it would become part of the Proto-gravemind, unless there's some basic instincts in the flood system which dictate which individuals become biomass for a proto-gravemind

[steel stone]

prote graves are scary AF

There was a really huge one in Halo Wars 2 and sure its dead body is gonna infect the rest of the Ark next OOF

[exotic pulsar]

Forms that would no longer serve a purpose usually become biomass. As for an Infected Spartan, I think it would never become biomass of even a carrier for that matter as it's an even more lethal and dangerous combat form. The Spartans physiology is once again improved somehow by The Flood. It wouldn't throw away something so lethal that could spread the infection so easily.

[unique rune]

I mean. Everywhere. It was everywhere. All the Flood biomass present at High Charity could be considered “the Gravemind”.

[violet silo]

Yeah, but what's controlling that selection? Feral state -> No gravemind to control and direct the flood.
If there's a basic instinct, yes sure.

[steel stone]

I always saw the giant venus fly trap as the commander of the Flood, makes sense how he would be everywhere but I love the venus fly trap

[exotic pulsar]

If that spartan has ammo and grenades on them, they would be converted by the infection form to spread the infection. Imagine someone getting shot by an Infected Spartans pistol and on impact they start to turn into another combat form.

[steel stone]

With how smart the infect Spartan is wouldnt the flood be in its coordinated stage already?

[exotic pulsar]

Well, this is one lone Infected Spartan, if it was a Fireteam? Maybe.

[steel stone]

Think the flood is comming back, calling it

[violet silo]

Flood infects biomass, bullets and grenades aren't, and they're also explosive and heat which would kill the infectionous part of the equipment.
They'd have better luck "evolving" some other projectile system like those crawlers in Halo 3.

[exotic pulsar]

Anyways, with infected ammo and grenades it wouldn't take long for the spartan to spread the infection around in an urban area. Toss one or two infected grenades into a crowd and you got a lot more flood running around.

[violet silo]

No not really, did you listen to the Halo CE anniversary terminal on Captain Keyes when he's part of the Proto-GM?

[unique rune]

No
That’s not how it works

[steel stone]

Yeah thats a good point Keyes fought off the Proto Gravemind

[violet silo]

Memories and the conciousness gets "eaten" by the flood, absorbed by the collective mind that is the flood.

[exotic pulsar]

The infected spartan couldn't stop himself from entering the condor and taking off.

[steel stone]

Only issue is Keyes was not infected for a solid 3 years as Tirimor mentioned

[violet silo]

It needs a big enough "body" to become some sort of "brain anchor" in the area

[exotic pulsar]

Four years actually. 2556 to 2540.

[steel stone]

In theory I think that Spartan went through the same thing as Keyes but for 4 years I think he gave into the flood

Hold on a sec when does Halo 5 and Infinite take place?

[exotic pulsar]

@violet silo The frag grenades can easily be covered by flood biomass and when it goes off it would spread out the biomass and spores in a generalized area.

[violet silo]

Ok, this is some new information.
Keyes mentally fended of the flood conciousness for several years?

[exotic pulsar]

No, he said Keyes fended off the flood consciousness for awhile, but doubted the infected spartan could hold it off for four years.

[violet silo]

Ah, the Spartan was infected for a very long time, gotya.

[exotic pulsar]

@steel stone 2557 is Halo 4, 2558 is Halo 5, and Infite is in 2559-2560.

[violet silo]

Either there's a Gravemind that can control the Spartan in that case, or it's merely acting on instinct. The flood conciousness forcing the spartan to do these actions as it deems that action to be the best way to spread infection.

[steel stone]

thanks, think thats close to Reach's ending

[violet silo]

As for the biomass grenades. It's an iffy area.
Realistically anything organic attached to a grenade as it goes off would be incinerated.

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, I imagine taking it and finding a location to infect would be top priority for the Flood consciousness.

[violet silo]

But if we want game physics, then it could happen, but it goes a little against what's intuitive. And we haven't seen that happen in the.... several games we've had flood.

Reach's ending was prior to the Halo CE timeline

[empty bloom]

Spartans in general aren't that smart. Like, sure, they're bright bulbs or even brilliant, but there frankly isn't some magical golden secret the flood would somehow learn if, say, Chief was embraced.

[exotic pulsar]

I'm not talking like a thin layer of biomass, more like a significant layer that can cover the grenade but still allow it to explode and spread out the biomass in various pieces but also releasing spores. If that isn't possible well, even then the shrapnel would spread out into the crowd and cause open wounds. Which the spores from the spartan could easily enter into.

[empty bloom]

So a single Spartan might make the perfect basis form for some keymind, but just infecting a Spartan is likely not enough.

[steel stone]

True as well but wouldnt they know alot of important stuff? what Spartan was infected? which class? armor? what gear did he or she had?

[violet silo]

Halo games in chronological order
Halo Wars (2531)
Halo Reach (2552)
Halo: Combat Evolved (2552)
Halo 2 (2552)
Halo 3 (2552)
Halo 3: ODST (2552)
Halo Spartan Assault (2554)
Halo 4 (2557)
Halo 5: Guardians (2558)
Halo Wars 2 (2559)
Halo Infinite (2560)

[exotic pulsar]

It was a HAZOP spartan that was part of a Fireteam specifically made to handle Flood Outbreaks, but that wouldn't mean that would be the only thing that Spartan knows.

[steel stone]

Halo Reach armor or the Halo 4 and 5 ones, that armor had barely any protection would make more sense there

[empty bloom]

The problem is that a Spartan wouldn't typically know a lot that the flood could consider strategically significant beyond equipment and troop positions in the battlespace.

[violet silo]

The flood would have a much better chance of developing their own type of "grenade" as opposed to encasing an explosive with infectious biomass

[empty bloom]

GEN2 has good protection and is considered more than fine for fighting flood.

It also has more dedicated anti flood models than any other form of MJOLNIR.

Going off the infected Spartan models, particularly Rusalka, they were likely wearing some GEN1 OR mildly GEN2Mark Vb.

[exotic pulsar]

GEN 2 by the Timeline. It had the Gallows VISR which was specifically designed that if a spartan is infected would cause th microexplosive in their helmet to explode.

[steel stone]

There was barely any protective armor in Halo 4 and 5 they all almost had tiny shoulder pieces with most of them just hanging off

It was a strange time

[empty bloom]

The entire armor is extremely protective.

You do know the entire suit is armor right?

Like, all of it.

[exotic pulsar]

Doesn't mean it's immune to punctures and the infected people were using MINING EQUIPMENT.

[unique rune]

A lot of GEN2’s protective gear is more directly integrated into the body suit instead of bolted on as heavy external plates

[empty bloom]

My issue is the bogus claim that GEN2's not very defensive lmao

[steel stone]

I guess that makes sense

[empty bloom]

I don't care if the Encylopedia says it, it's contradicted often.

[unique rune]

Plus the GEN thing doesn’t make that much of a difference considering that Chief was almost infected by the Flood while wearing GEN1 Mk.V

[exotic pulsar]

Mining equipment is designed to be rather effective at piercing into rock and metal.

[empty bloom]

You should say that again, just in case it suddenly becomes my problem, instead of what I said my problem was.

[steel stone]

True that did also happen as well but atleast mark 5 covered almsot the whole body

[unique rune]

…Every iteration of MJOLNIR covers the entire body

[empty bloom]

It's kind of the point.

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, but the undersuit isn't immune to damage either.

[empty bloom]

Again, where did I say it should be?

Literally never did, lmao

The mining stuff penning it makes sense, that isn't a hard concept to grasp

[steel stone]

You really didnt check out the whack Halo 3 armor they added

[empty bloom]

... They literally cover the entire body there though, because it's a fully enclosed suit.

[exotic pulsar]

Hey, the Halo 3 armor was cool.

[unique rune]

I mean I feel like the Fractures stuff doesn’t count and also it very much does

[steel stone]

seen how tiny the shoulder pieces they added? they dont cover the whole body as mentioned

[unique rune]

Like. The entire bodysuit alone is made of a titanium-based material. It’s pretty tough stuff

[steel stone]

Classic Halo 3 amor actually covered alot of the body unlike the Halo Online ones

[exotic pulsar]

Yes, the entire power armor is rather protective.

[empty bloom]

The shoulders for those sets are frequently larger than the original Halo 3 designs, they just utilize a different mounting and GEN2 prefers integrated plates over layered.

Like, that is literally part of what the hexagon pattern is supposed to imply, is that it's all armored.

[steel stone]

I noticed that as well with air assault

gen2 air assault did have bigger shoulder pieces but got rid of the armor that protected the biscep, its far smaller

Its really interesting

[unique rune]

You do know that MJOLNIR is the entire armor system, right? Like, not just the visibly separate colored parts…?

[steel stone]

gen2 air assault still looks cool though

[empty bloom]

Highkey, I'm starting to wonder if I'm one of the only people who actually bothered to read the flood because of how few people discussing the flood stuff seem to acknowledge that the one time Chief went against flood in the books, he had an awful time and almost got infected.

As in, he literally had flood tissue in his body long enough to accept his fate.

[exotic pulsar]

I know this, I literally read and have the book.

[steel stone]

I know that each part serves a purpose like EOD is for spartans that deal with explosives

[empty bloom]

My point is that people keep seemingly forgetting that lmao

[exotic pulsar]

He was only saved by Cortana cycling his shields.

[unique rune]

I still want justice for the reprints removing the like two sentences that mention the Chief taking a shower

[empty bloom]

That's a weird thing to care about.

[exotic pulsar]

All throughout Halo 1, 2, and 3. Chief only had ONE shower and a single MRE to eat.

[empty bloom]

Please tell me you don't actually believe that.

[steel stone]

I think Chief had to have eaten something inbetween games, that does not sound healthly to go that long wthout eating

[exotic pulsar]

TBF, between HAlo 1 and 2 they were still fighting the Covenant. When would they have time to stop and eat?

[violet silo]

Mkay, The undersuit is also protective in that it contains titanium, then there are other systems inside it which offer some sort of protection. The armor plates on top of the undersuit offer Extra protection to the wearer.
We can use two arguments as to why the armor plates look like they do:
A: Artistic design meant to convey some specific thing, for instance, if the armor plate is small we can assume it's to convey agility and maneuverability while providing a little extra protection.
B: In-lore explanation of somewhat optimal design for what kind of operation the armor variant is meant for.

We have helmets with a massive visors, and then there are visor-less helmets.

For gameplay, we can be hurt by mere bullets because if it was "logical" then most ballistic weaponry would be close to useless unless there's some explicit explanation as to why a normal bullet traveling at sub-sound speeds can penetrate that much armor.

[empty bloom]

Oh god, you're really not kidding.

[empty bloom]

• Any major level transition prior to landing on Delta Halo.

There, answered.

For Halo 3, it's

• Every major level transition prior to going to High Charity

[exotic pulsar]

IDK, stuff was going on FAST during Halo 2.

[empty bloom]

Nowhere near that fast.

Unless Chief's sitting down at a 5 Michelin star restaurant with entertainment every course, he can scarf down an MRE.

[exotic pulsar]

Let's see, had to defend the station from the bomb, landed on An Amberclad and had to prepare to fight on Earth....

[empty bloom]

Eating is preparing to fight.

[unique rune]

There’s some pretty big sections of downtime between things going on in CE-3. Like the slipspace jumps all kinda take a while.

[steel stone]

I think Chief could of taken a small break while waiting to get his Mark 6 in Halo 2. Could of done alot of stuff. Its not something I think needs a whole explanation for just implied, nothing too important.

[violet silo]

I don't remember how long of a time period Halo CE is, but it's either rather quick, and he has some breathers, or it's really fast thus decreasing the need for anything to eat.
As for Halo 2, there are plenty of downtime where the chief CAN'T do anything other than basically eat.

[exotic pulsar]

Didn't Miranda order him to be armed and ready ASAP?

[empty bloom]

Armed and ready includes your stomach.

[steel stone]

Not sure how long it takes but seems to be instant

[empty bloom]

It isn't.

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah based on story pacing it felt like the Chief was taking no breaks in between.

[steel stone]

From what the games show it isnt that long

[empty bloom]

Doesn't mean it's literally the case.

[unique rune]

It looks instant because showing two weeks of the Chief’s daily routine on the In Amber Clad would be hella boring

[empty bloom]

Game's wrong.

[steel stone]

How long is a slipspace jump?

[unique rune]

Varies by distance

Some take days, others can take months

[empty bloom]

Hours, days. The flight to Delta was several hours, IIRC.

[exotic pulsar]

IDK, for all we know the jump to Delta Halo could have been almost insatnt due to the fact An Amber Clad hitched the ride with the Covenant vessel and they are always known to be far faster in slipspace.

[unique rune]

There’s a month between the Shadow of Intent entering the Ark portal on Earth and arriving at the Ark

[steel stone]

How long was it they had to go to delta Halo from Halo 2?

[unique rune]

two weeks

[empty bloom]

It wasn't.

We literally know it wasn't lmao

[unique rune]

We have canonical dates for pretty much every game mission

[steel stone]

Wish the games added a cool detail showing the amount of days that were jumped to with slipspace that would be sick

[empty bloom]

IDK why this is even somehow an issue, you're trying to justify something I can solve in less than five minutes by showcasing me eating a damn MRE.

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah like a basic sub titles saying "Two Weeks Later".

[steel stone]

yeah

[empty bloom]

Like, who the hell doesn't have 5 minutes to slam down an MRE? They're built to be eaten as fast as humanly possible.

[violet silo]

In Halo CE Chief has time to grab a bite between rescuing the marines in Mission 2 and Mission 3, then again before the Silent Cartographer.
He has time in the pelican on his way underground before Assault on the Control room.
After the control room he went to Guilty Spark, there's another opportunity to get a bite, now AFTER that it becomes hectic, but that timeframe if I recall is also rather short.

[empty bloom]

Hell, I could do it in 3

[unique rune]

I don’t think Bungie put that much time into thinking about exact dates when making the game considering their stories are generally more carried by vibes than anything

[exotic pulsar]

TBH besides practice and drills what do the spartan 2's even do with their freetime?

[empty bloom]

Listen to music, meditate, exercise recreationally, apparently at least one somehow knows what a bar is.

[exotic pulsar]

The only thing non combat or military I know about chief is that he doens't like Rock Music.

[steel stone]

Thats a interesting point, Id imagine Fred showing off his cool as hell knife tricks to the marines

[violet silo]

In Halo 2, he could have an opportunity between giving the covenant back their bomb and crashing in mombasa.
Then during the slipspace jump.
Those are the two only opportunities but everything after that is hectic and fast paced as well.

[steel stone]

Maybe Kelly racing some marines, damn that would be awesome seeing

[empty bloom]

Halo 3 is chock full of opportunities

[exotic pulsar]

Dude, Kelly would smoke Usain Bolt.

[steel stone]

GOTTA GO FAST

If Usain bolt was a Spartan tho...

[violet silo]

Yup, but now I can't recall the instances, but they are there.

[empty bloom]

Literally every post ORION Spartan ever would outrun, outendure, outfight, and generally outdo literally every human that has been alive since humans were a species that got bombed back to the stone age.

[exotic pulsar]

Thing is, Halo 4 at the start was weird due to that ONI Stiff suggesting that the Spartan 2's had anti social problems.

[violet silo]

In Halo 4 it'd take a while for him to get something but it's still there for him on the Infinity when he's there.

In Halo 5 he's on a mission so he has stocked up on food and most likely take the time to eat.

[empty bloom]

Like, a IV's going to be lapping Usain, using Andre the Giant as light sparring faire, and leapfrogging your average Seal for breakfast.

[steel stone]

Yup and I think that would be awesome seeing that but in a training sort of fashion, Maybe during the trip to the Ark Chief gave some survival tips to the marines and trained up a bit giving them advice like the pilot from Halo Infinite

[empty bloom]

You ain't racing that and having a shot in hell of winning.

[violet silo]

Halo Infinite on the other hand, the suit needs to have some sort of nutritional system, or some cryosleep function. 6 months in space

Then we follow chief around but there are a few instances where he could eat.

But, we're forgetting the important one.
When does he go potty?

[unique rune]

I mean, they pretty much always have. As early as, I wanna say at least Ghosts of Onyx? It’s noted that Spartans generally tend to not associate with the normal rank and file (and that 051 was kinda weird for doing so).

And given that they were pretty much brought up as children to become Insurrectionist-suppressing death machines, well.

[empty bloom]

I still subscribe to the theory that Spartans don't actually generate much solid waste (why else would IVs have an intestinal bioreactor?), and we already know they're catheterized.

[exotic pulsar]

Brought up to be super soldiers with no social skills outside of their own group, yet still looked upon with awe by the average grunt.

[empty bloom]

I still find it funny how Chief's lauded as this amazing Spartan when like 90% of what he did in the OT is unambiguously just either having a ton of support, or knowing full well that he's more than enough of a pragmatist in canon that he'll let both sides of a villain brawl fight it out long before he gets involved.

[exotic pulsar]

That and his somehow insane luck factor since childhood.

[unique rune]

but muh hyper lethal

[empty bloom]

Don't even get me started on the Six and Chief thing.

[exotic pulsar]

I mean, both jorge and kurt are supposed to be like what? a foot taller then the average spartan?

[empty bloom]

Jorge got nerfed

[steel stone]

I wish jorge was wearing mark 5 or atleast the cool halo wars spartan armor

[empty bloom]

Fun fact though, 3 members of Fireteam Majestic are taller than 5 out of 6 members of Noble Team.

Hoya, DeMarco, and Naiya were all around 7'1"

While the tallest non-II member of Noble was Thom, at 7' even.

[unique rune]

Should’ve been wearing Kelly’s silly high-heeled armored boots from The Package smh

[orchid kettle]

If you buy what the Hellcat armor description in Halo 5 is selling, Ancient Humans may have just been Spartan-IIs more or less

[exotic pulsar]

Which is insane. Next line of human evolution indeed.

[orchid kettle]

Its a little creepy to me, this idea that they're just this genetic master race and everybody else is a devolved subhuman

Like, part of the point of the Forerunner Trilogy is that the Forerunners were kinda bad and almost deserved to get flooded

so it's weird to me that humanity has inherited their culture of genetic augmentation, super suits, and AI assistants

and that's supposed to be a good thing for some reason

[exotic pulsar]

Well to be fair things are different now. We aren't exactly the top race in the current time.

[stoic hamlet]

The first book, actually.

Though this has kind of changed over the years, to an extent. The Spartans up until I’d say Cole Protocol were all described as really unnerving to be around. No one liked having them around or even tried to socialize because they were so disturbing.

But that doesn’t really work with the whole “omg they’re so coool” angle the mainline games we’re doing so they toned that unease down until by now it’s basically nonexistent.

[orchid kettle]

It's a bit of a shame, since hero worship gets a little exhausting to read.

[dusk jetty]

This made me laugh for some reason

[dusk jetty]

Given that Locke knocked his knee into chiefs visor and all he got was a single crack, this claim is indeed bogus.

[spare kite]

Just had a random thought, but in theory the Spartan 3 program would allow for more genetically gifted children than the 2's to get into the program. The 2's had to balance genetic ability, and augmentation survivability. The 3's dont have to make that concession, and instead can pick from the top without worrying about any other non-practical genetic factors.

[stoic hamlet]

Correct.

The III’s even with the looser genetic requirements also struggled to find candidates. The first class was supposed to have 1,000 graduates, but the entire program only had 1,245 candidates total over the span of almost 3 decades.

[orchid kettle]

I always kinda assumed that the two aspects were one in the same

Hence why Halsey gushes over how her Spartans were all Olympic quality athletes and great tacticians before the augs were given

And then you have the later idea that Spartan-IIs are closer genetically to Ancient Humans (Hellcat helmet description in Halo 5)

combined with the fact that everything is apparently part of the Librarian's master plan, and it sounds like the augs were more or less designed to turn Chief and friends into Ancient Humans or about as close as you could get

as part of the process of undoing the punishment dealt to humanity that saw them de-evolved

hence Halo 4's weird mention of Spartan-IIs being the next step in human evolution

[spare kite]

I actually always found this statement to be rather odd because from a practical standpoint it really isnt true. If you really dig deep into it the Spartan 2 program is the worst program to use with the goal of furthering humanities evolution. It only works with children, and it has a high mortality rate. Unironically the generation that is best in furthering humanity is the Spartan 4 program. Its applicable to adults, it introduces organ replacement and the implication that come with it, and its infinitely safer.

[empty bloom]

Trenchbird is lurking, trying to think of a way to bring Spartan IVs into the convo

[orchid kettle]

Yes but its also in the same game where we're told by the Librarian that Chief is the child of destiny

so I just assume the two statements are related

Of course I kinda hate anything having to do with the Librarian's geas

[empty bloom]

This is why Halo 4's plot annoys me almost as much as 3's does.

[orchid kettle]

but yeah, as far as I can tell, Halsey wasn't skimping out on physical or mental ability when it came to the II candidates

[spare kite]

No im not disagreeing that it doesnt exist. Im just saying that from a practical standpoint it doesnt make any sense. 343 is trying to force a plot point while disregarding its logical intent to the wider universe.

[orchid kettle]

which I dunno, makes sense to me. Who else has the best shot of surviving having their skeleton pulverized than somebody already with strong healthy bones

[spare kite]

To me thats two entirely different points. The 2's, and 3's are the closest to ancient humanity, but the 4's unlike Halsey is saying about the 2's, from a practical standpoint are the real next step for humanity.

[empty bloom]

Halsey is also desperately scrambling for anything to spin the fact she mutilated children because of someone's ramblings into a positive light.

[orchid kettle]

well according to Halo 4 it's because the Librarian made her do it

[empty bloom]

The Librarian's a bad person with good intentions, so.

[orchid kettle]

if you ask me even her intentions are kinda icky

she still promotes the existence of an all powerful master race

[spare kite]

Yea the whole "next step for humanity" I kind of always assumed it to come from arrogance on her part. Something not from fact but from emotion.

[orchid kettle]

even if she's not of said race

[empty bloom]

She's a humanaboo tbh

Very weird person

Icky energy

Dangerous icky energy

[orchid kettle]

Super weird how the franchise presents her as humanity's benevolent god mother

and not like-- a creepy meddler

Like, I really don't think they thought this part of the universe out. The Librarian isn't heroic for meddling with another group's culture and trying to inject aspects of her own culture into it.

She's just a colonizer lol

[empty bloom]

I like how 5 kinda hints that at least Chief found it kinda creepy.

Considering he immediately locks his opinion down when Cortana starts talking about the Mantle

[orchid kettle]

Shoulda punched the Librarian ghost out back in Halo 4 like doom guy

[spare kite]

I honestly think her existence is just to make Chief relevant to the story

[empty bloom]

If I had a nickel for every time a 'face' Microsoft shooter franchise had super weird takes regarding imperialism and colonialism, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

[dusk jetty]

Pretty much. Having Chief be the “chosen one” is stupid in my humble opinion

[orchid kettle]

Colonialism is only bad if its members of the same race oppressing each other

but when its one united race oppressing the correct outgroup, then its dope

Thanks Halo!

[empty bloom]

Remember, making child soldiers is okay if they kill a lot of people.

[orchid kettle]

Its always worth it if they can do a sick flip

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-brocknroll-kick-fight-gif-13803003

Worth!!!

[stoic hamlet]

“Do a flip!”

“I gotchu fam say no more!”

[empty bloom]

I love how there's like a dozen better things that Spartan could've done there

And he goes

'haha flip off of monke face'

[dusk jetty]

The gap in chiefs back between his thrusters annoys me to no end

Just scribble in some green please

[empty bloom]

Don't look at the gap between Tanaka's tech kit/thruster nacelles

[dusk jetty]

Pain.

[stoic hamlet]

But flips are cool, so obviously it’s the best thing to do for this hyper efficient child soldier raised to be a peak war fighter since he was a toddler. 100%.

[empty bloom]

Anyways, here's why Halo 4 is a masterclass in video game story design.

I know I'm throwing a stone in a glass house shut up shut up shut up

[dusk jetty]

The Trenchbird hits the glass

[empty bloom]

bonk

[empty bloom]

Tbh that's probs why Chief lost to Atriox. Didn't do a counter monke flip.

[dusk jetty]

I actually had a question about thrusters that I was reminded at staring at chiefs shoulder blades, gen 3 clearly did away with the powerful thrusters Gen 2 had, and uses a separate thruster pack instead, but why does mark VII need a pack? Is it like gen 1 thrusters with just powerful enough for microgravity, or is it just gameplay and Spartans are actually completely capable of going whoosh

[empty bloom]

I'd assume like GEN1.

[dusk jetty]

No whoosh 😞

[empty bloom]

Lmao

So some guy's saying that Chief would've won in the FCU+reinforcement's stead against the flood in the new story

I love r/halostory

[covert dawn]

Bro took on an infested high charity twice, I could see it

[empty bloom]

I couldn't.

Chief had the advantage the first time and the second time is 3.

[dusk jetty]

In the process of being infected

It was in utter chaos anyway

[covert dawn]

Then he came back afterwards again

[empty bloom]

The second time I really hate, but then, originally you were supposed to bring a whole Scarab in, instead of fighting tooth and nail through its guts that are suspiciously made of Covenant ship rooms and not High Charity rooms.

[covert dawn]

Also he would've been fighting infected miners with mining equipment and few actual weapons in the feral stage

Thats significantly less bad than facing off infected covenant

[dusk jetty]

And it’s also completely possible the gravemind didn’t care that John was even there and just assumed he was coming for Cortana, and only panicked once he found out about the reactors

[empty bloom]

You are really underestimating the power of mining lasers in the hands of something that loves melee.

[dusk jetty]

Worse, mining lasers are extremely powerful if they can cut through forerunner alloy

[empty bloom]

That's... Actually way damn worse than infected Covenant.

Like, significantly worse to deal with.

[covert dawn]

The Gravemind was taunting him multiple times so I don't think the gravemind was going easy

[dusk jetty]

Do you teabag if your worried about losing?

[empty bloom]

I honestly assumed the Gravemind's goal was actually trying to figure out what the hell Cortana called him there for.

[covert dawn]

That could also be true once he discovered the index

[dusk jetty]

Once he discovered the index he probably really panicked

[empty bloom]

In which case it's an Escharum style situation where he's purposely holding back until it's way too late.

Not that players would be any wiser.

Oof

Muted by the bot

Gotta watch those swears, sailor.

[dusk jetty]

Yargh

Kig yar mouth

[orchid kettle]

I don't think the mining lasers actually worked though

The prose said the ship just opens up on its own

[empty bloom]

Honestly the fact people sleep on Industrial equipment being weaponized reminds me of how sad it is that people don't really appreciate how much energy it takes to melt through solid rock.

[orchid kettle]

after hours of the miners trying to bust in

[dusk jetty]

That’s true, peeled like an orange.

Still went through solid rock to get to it though

Presumably

[empty bloom]

Now I'm just imagining a Spartan trying to survive getting caught in an Industrial Lathe

[dusk jetty]

Probably would go something like “Augh” whirring

[empty bloom]

Shockingly, 'unbreakable' bones don't save your flesh from getting ripped off them.

[dusk jetty]

I think one of the Spartans on reach in first strike had a broken limb

[empty bloom]

Hence the 'unbreakable'

Imagine being the poor guy having to try using a rib spreader on an injured Spartan.

[dusk jetty]

A spartan in the ER would be a nightmare in general

[orchid kettle]

to be fair, the words they use is "practically" or "virtually" unbreakable

but like, the special carbide ceramic or whatever is apparently less than 3% of their actual bone mass

it's not adamantium or anything

[dusk jetty]

If they nailed titanium to their bones it wouldn’t be a problem

Make a spartan a ship

[empty bloom]

I love Halostory arguments, I love Halostory arguments

[stoic hamlet]

This entire story has caused a ton of people to jump out of the woodwork, and not in a good way, lol

[plush bolt]

My mind died upon reading the text in that image

[empty bloom]

I think people kind of really struggle to actually intuit just what kind of threat the flood really are regarding silly things like retreating.

[empty bloom]

Howso?

Cause white bar above's... Kind of mild, compared to what I've seen.

(I'm the other guy)

Like, one option here (retreating) just gets you killed even faster.

[plush bolt]

Flood infected half of Africa in what a few minutes?

[empty bloom]

It wasn't literally half, but yeah.

[plush bolt]

Called it

[stoic hamlet]

“The flood’s coming back guys! For real”

“If this team had been II’s or III’s this wouldn’t have happened!”

“CORRUPTOR and UPSIKON failed, this is so scary!”

[unique rune]

man I’m so tired of the Flood

I hope we get a more defined conclusion to the story that just goes “and everything was nuked into oblivion” so I don’t have to think about insane theorycrafting about a free roaming Flood Spartan team

[stoic hamlet]

Etc.

[empty bloom]

Half was more the area that Rtas had glassed than the actual known extent of the flood infection.

[empty bloom]

Ah, yeah. Honestly, it's the "If IIs or IIIs were there..." that bothers me. We don't even know anything beyond that these guys were Spartans, and that they actually had a lot of reinforcements compared what we knew FCU's have, which was... Mostly a sign up sheet and some special gear.

For all we know, the list of IIIG's just got 4 names shorter.

[orchid kettle]

I like Flood. They're kinda too powerful for their own good though

Either they're fun space zombies localized to one lil place-- or they're immediately threatening the entire galaxy

[empty bloom]

I mean, in a vacuum or as a concept enemy? Yeah, I actually do like them a lot. I sometimes give them crap, but body horror's neat.

They're fine in their own sandbox, but they're designed to steal spotlights, and that ain't how I like to roll.

[unique rune]

I think they’re just kind of a can of worms that only really works once

Because after you deal with them the one time, every subsequent opening just means you have to drop every other story thread to shut them down, which has the fun side effect of watering the Flood down as a threat

[empty bloom]

Problably doesn't help when your fanbase is more power level happy than the DBZ fanbase.

[last anchor]

Some people have never faced a Genestealer cult on the tabletop and watched a Custodes get melted by a weird blue hybrid with a mining laser.

[empty bloom]

Some people never lived through the dark times of the internet.

I still see the logo sometimes.

[orchid kettle]

It makes me wonder how Halo would be different if the Flood were just a Covenant bioweapon that sometimes got out of hand

[empty bloom]

Problably worse, tbh.

[orchid kettle]

and not like-- evil vengeful god dust

Because that just inevitably means they're centered as the threat, the main evil of Halo

and not just like, a spooky lil fungus that pops up here and there

[empty bloom]

I like the spooky fungus made of god rage though.

[stoic hamlet]

The flood are cool as a conceptual threat, not an actual one.

[stoic hamlet]

This team might not have even been an SFC, anyways. We know absolutely nothing about ‘em.

[orchid kettle]

considering the AI was super unwilling to deploy Leviathan

they probably weren't

[obsidian thistle]

Oh hey I just realised this short story may have soft confirmed my Mjolnir theory.

GEN2 probably wasnt fully adopted right away so old suits may have been needed to be used.

Leading to Leviathan using Mark V/B

[empty bloom]

I was figuring that was the case due to the captain's worries about the UNSC's requests.

Which would also explain Dinh using Mirage before the IIC rollout.

[obsidian thistle]

I once theorized that due to War Games and how Mark V and VI clad Spartans were doing it before it became a thing.

But kinda tossed it to gameplay

If the old Halo Online lore (public stuff fyi) was kept. The War Games timeline would have been filled with actual canon stuff

And my theory would have been more solid!

So I'm glad honestly

[empty bloom]

I always understood it as canon lite unless it conflicts due to MCC's handling of it.

[obsidian thistle]

MCCs handling was always...
Maps = Canon
Armor = Canon
Armor being used on said map = Uncertain

TLDR: Very fluid and loose

The only stuff solid was Halo 4 and 5s depiction

Halo 4s was essentially
When where does a map take place in the timeline. Boom. Thus leading to Halo 4s being after Spartan Ops.

Halo 5s is set after the campaign prepping for ops against the Created.

[empty bloom]

I meant Online's lore, not MCC as a while.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah IIRC this is why Gamma didn’t start getting MJOLNIR until December-ish ‘53.

They didn’t have the production capacity, and etc.

[dusty ferry]

And even then, we know at some point Mark VII Gen I was being considered instead of Gen 2

so them still producing some early Mark VI and V/V[B] in an interim period checks out

[empty bloom]

I mean, I guess it'd make sense to have most of your GEN2 production getting thrown at the Spartans it's made for, especially if most are aboard the nexus of Spartandom (The Infinity's Spartan Town).

Highkey, Spartan Town's design actually irritates me.

It's so ineffecient.

Ah, yes, a massive open-air gantry bay

A series of rooms with four gantries per bay would be so much better.

Like, you don't intend for the Infinity to be in a gravity well all the time, so it's space that's at the premium, not open air.

[dusty ferry]

why thats still being used in like 2556 could just be chalked up to either this team being straight out of training or something (assuming recruit isn't a thing yet), a result of there not being enough Gen II suits at the time compared to the influx of spartans (IE, soft confirming the 10,000+ S-IV stuff thats been theorized), or this being weirdo S-II's/IIIs (because we've seen gamma people using actual SPI in the created era)

[empty bloom]

I do like weirdo Spartans.

[dusty ferry]

I chalk that up to infinity being somewhat hastily changed to a warship

[empty bloom]

Mostly because they prove time after time that Mark Vb is an inferior and shoddy product

[dusty ferry]

can you go over that again? I can't remember if you've ever gone over that in detail

[empty bloom]

I don't have a specific reason in this case I can think of beyond just really strongly disliking GEN1 Mark Vb.

[dusty ferry]

I swear you had actual technical reasons for that at some point

[empty bloom]

I probably did, but I'm not in the right headspace to recite it right now.

But I assure you, the moment I am, I will recite them.

[dusty ferry]

thanks

[exotic pulsar]

Yet somehow, GEN 2 won out despite the various features the Mark VII had.

[exotic pulsar]

The Mark Vb is not a shoddy product. As a platform on itself I have to say it is actually pretty good. It was used as a test bed for all kinds of experimental Spartan Armor and Equipment that eventually did make it on the field. If it wasn't for the Mark Vb Mjolnir would have never had energy shields.

[empty bloom]

It's shoddy and I do not care for other's opinions on the subject.

<3

[empty bloom]

Also, the Mark IV Grenadier variant was the testbed for the new shields, not Mark Vb.

The Mark Vb was the first production model to have shields.

[exotic pulsar]

"While its physical architecture is derived from the Mark IV[B], the Mark V[B] was the first mainline model of the MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor to incorporate energy shielding technology." Straight from the Wiki.

[empty bloom]

"This variant was a test bed for incorporating energy shielding technology with the MJOLNIR program."

[dusty ferry]

cost

[empty bloom]

Ah, yes, the Mark IV Grenadier page concurs that it predates the Mark Vb as a shield incorporation test bed, would you look at that. How curious. It's almost like I know what I'm talking about.

My oh my, it's even in the name of the helmet.

Mark IV. Man, you'd think if the testbed for MJOLNIR shields was Mark Vb, they would name the helmet assosciating with it as a testbed program Vb Grenadier, not IV Grenadier.

[dusty ferry]

If we ignore that one halo wars set which may or may not canonically had shields

[empty bloom]

IIRC it canonically did, but it was a super early prototype and was more in line with elite shielding.

I think the Warm Blanket models also had shields?

[empty bloom]

Yep, it was tested as early as 2531, page 119 of the Halo Essential Visual Guide.

[dusty ferry]

thats nice to know

[empty bloom]

I assume this shielding was nowhere near as strong as the version Chief totes around in FoR-on.

But honestly, people forget that you shouldn't let the shield get hit at all if you can avoid it anyways.

[obsidian thistle]

I have a theory it was scrapped when 4 outta 11 Spartans died/vanished.

Doesn't bode well for the tech if nearly half of the test group doesnt return with it

[empty bloom]

I figured it was an issue like the Blue Shield Particle Field from Battletech and had some significant issue that wouldn't be immediately evident in some smaller scale testing.

[obsidian thistle]

(Keiichi is a rogue card. If he stuck with the SoF. Then it turns into 5 outta 11.)

[empty bloom]

(Blue Shield's issue is that it has to shut down every minute or so due to the fact it starts to overheat due to 'blocking' the ground, but it works fine for spacecraft and planes).

[empty bloom]

I feel like he may've gotten iced offscreen if he's MIA in 2558.

I mean, a Spartan with no comms is as good as dead.

[obsidian thistle]

Catalog was wrong with a few Spartans due to their official status.

[empty bloom]

Fair!

But it wouldn't surprise me, either way.

[obsidian thistle]

Keiichi is the wildcard Spartan-II.

343i can put em anywhere in the galaxy

And it would just work

[empty bloom]

Playing cards with Rtas.

[obsidian thistle]

Seriously 343i can even say he stuck with the SoF and is at the Ark

(Would explain the MIA thing very naturally lol)

Ultimately

4/5 outta 11 Spartans dying/vanishing is not great for said shields

Pretty much kills data recovery. Brass will wonder why 4/5 Spartans wearing the armor are gone.

[last anchor]

Spartan scale Blue Shield when

Actually: UNSC PPC when

[exotic pulsar]

Fat post incoming.

Ok, been doing a bit of reading, yeah grenadier was made first to test energy shielding, but it was rather unsuccessful. Mark Vb may not have been the first but grenadier had to walk in order for it to run. Thanks to the research of grenadier and reverse engineering a jackal shield gauntlet they were able to implement energy shielding on the mark Vb. I personally don't believe that it was a shoddy product as MarkVb was meant to be more then just combat armor, it was essentially an in-field prototype and testbed for other systems and technologies. Which, would later be adapted for mass production.

What is part of the MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor's very core is that it's also a pioneering effort intended to shatter current technological barriers, to push the boundaries of what humanity is capable of and go beyond. So when it comes down to that the MarkVb itself is very important when it comes to the evolution of MJOLNIR. The fact that it is still in service to this day needing just a few upgrades to be just as good as Gen 3 is rather a testament to how future proof MJOLNIR armor is.

[last anchor]

The UNSC embraces backwards compatibility without hesitation

[orchid kettle]

the UNSC is very conscious towards fan OCs, and will ensure that there's no armor loadout that's impossible for the timeframe

👌

[drifting beacon]

A few questions about the Banished and the Brutes

Did any notable fraction of the Jiralhanae splinter off from the Covenant to join the Seperatists during the Great Schism?

What was the cause of the conflict between the UNSC and the Banished

And before the conflict, what was the state of relations between the Banished and humanity?

[orchid kettle]

Not as far as we know. In 2552, if you were a Brute, you were either Banished or Loyalist.

[orchid kettle]

No real cause outside of the Banished wanting plunder and the UNSC happening to be in their way. At the very least, until a rogue human AI goes and blows up their home planet.

You could argue that the Banished just sorta dislike the UNSC on principle as well because they're also a space empire

[empty bloom]

That and ingrained space racism.

[orchid kettle]

Seemingly little to no relationship. Atriox fought them as part of his orders from the Covenant, but was probably too busy raiding Covenant storehouses and evading capture to care after creating the Banished.

[drifting beacon]

That's... somewhat disappointing TBH, I can just imagine the cultural exports

I bet the Banished would freakin' love Griffball

[orchid kettle]

That's just how it be do

[empty bloom]

25 years of indoctrinated religion and space racism is a hell of a drug.

[frigid pagoda]

No kidding. Sang'heili and Humans both have it as well.

[tranquil valve]

Does anyone know what happened the the Promethans after H5? I’m not too caught up on the books and I was wondering why they and their weapons are suddenly absent in Infinite (lightrifle my beloved)

[orchid kettle]

Best we can figure is that the death of the Cortana means the Prometheans just dipped and left Zeta Halo

Some Created AI have since placed themselves into the body of Promethean Knights, but I don't know if that gives them any authority over other Armigers or if it's just a neat body

but in general, its unclear how much Forerunner tech remains obedient to the Created with Cortana gone.

[river ridge]

I just assumed they got deactivated since you can see a deactivated guardian in infinites campaign

[orchid kettle]

Deactivated, or ||a destroyed Guardian||

[meager pier]

Gonna be interesting to see how Cortana got disconnected from the Domain

[stoic hamlet]

“C’MERE YOU LITTLE-!”

~ Atriox, c. 2559.

(Actually though I think Empty Throne will go into this.

[meager pier]

proceeds to smash Domain server

[orchid kettle]

Can't believe Atriox zipbombed the Domain

[stoic hamlet]

No no, he just pulled her out by hand. He’s built different, you see.

[empty bloom]

Nothing wrong with that decision. :3

[exotic pulsar]

Also to change the subject again, I believe the Infected Spartan is different from the normal combat forms. It has to be like Rusalka a combat form given extra protection to keep the flood form alive.

[meager pier]

He’s just that OP

[versed helm]

I do think it’s a little strange how the infected Spartans are less mutated (if that’s the right word) by the Flood. Normal human combat forms have their entire necks broken backwards and their left hand turned into a giant claw, whereas Spartan combat forms are more intact and mostly have the same body shape as they did before they were infected.

[versed helm]

Which books should I read if I want to know more about the Forerunners?

Specifically their AIs

If anyone responds to this please ping me, I’m probably gonna go to sleep soon

[last anchor]

Forerunner Trilogy

[terse lava]

@versed helm The Forerunner trilogy: Cryptum, Primordium, and Silentium, focus on the last decade or so of the Forerunners' civilization. The short stories, "Soma the Painter," (from Halo: Evolutions Volume I) "Defender of the Storm," and "Promises to Keep"( both from Halo: Fractures) are also Forerunner-centric tales.

[dusk jetty]

The forerunner trilogy is a good place to start. It’s like the base for most of the forerunner lore, and it has some 343 guilty spark in it, assuming you were wanting to know more from #general-chat halo evolutions also has some info

[versed helm]

thanks

i freaking love this server bro

[terse lava]

you're welcome

[exotic pulsar]

It is a bit weird, but I imagine they do look horrific inside of that armor. I imagine it is so they can keep the armor overall more intact because you got to remember Mjolnir increases the physical aspects of the user. It can't do that well if the armor is overall severely damaged.

[versed helm]

Makes sense

[exotic pulsar]

Even then being infected by the flood also increases the physically of the infected I mean combat forms are able to leap incredible distances.

[lament crag]

Yo why is Atriox the only thing from halo wars 2 in halo infinite?

[exotic pulsar]

It's because he was able to somehow leave the Ark thanks to some banished outside of it.

I can't remember the details but I know it involves a book going back to Reach.

[lament crag]

Yeah I understand that but I meant in terms of how every banished unit and weapon and vehicle from halo wars 2 is basically absent from infinite

I came to this realization after playing halo wars 2 again

[exotic pulsar]

TBH, IDK man. The only banished units in HW2 that are in infinite are the ghost, banshee, phantom, and wraith.

Also, almost forogt that spartans also carry around Smoke Canisters used to signal for pickup after a mission, request for an equipment drop, and even a need for emergency evacuation. If the Infected Spartan was carrying those at the time or infection of the Condor had some as equipment it could be changed instead to release Flood Spores by the flood biomass. With those they could spread an infection out amongst an urban enviroment espeically in a large crowd.

[dusk jetty]

Different models made by different workshops/factories and such, probably Escharum and atriox were just trying to get as much stuff as they could after they got back from the Ark

Instead of bringing everything with them, which they wouldn’t have time to do anyway

[unique rune]

HW2's units are designed for RTS gameplay
I can't imagine adapting them to FPS would be that easy, especially since there's also kind of a baseline expectation of how Halo FPS enemies work that needs to be fulfilled first

[empty bloom]

Short answer; 343's primary design goal for the sandbox, seemingly, was to slim it down to 'basics' and reduce redundancies while simultaneously providing a wider and deeper sandbox mechanically than the OT and Halo 5 in other aspects. Unfortunately this led to a lot of things getting the axe, including some old redundant fan favorites.

[dusk jetty]

I honestly wished the banished had less content actually. Some of the guns they have edge out the previous ones for their role. The skewer replaces the splaser, even though I like the splaser.

Sure they’re definitely an interesting faction and for the most part their tech is cool

[empty bloom]

Lore answer; The units of Halo Wars 2 were at least partially a variety if Atriox's personal forces most tightly aligned to him, which outright bottlenecks a significant portion of gear and resources, especially with the loss of the significant fleet asset in the Supercarrier. The equivalents you see in Halo Infinite are generally older chassis (some produced freshly, others not) mounting Banished issued modifications like improved armoring or alternate plasma cannons.

This reduction of gear also is supplemented by a significant number of newer homegrown designs than just the oft used Spiker such as the Mangler or Shock Rifle, which often provide more alternative functions or variances in gameplay than repeat systems such as the Mauler, Spiker, or Beam Rifle.

[dusk jetty]

The stalker is another example.

[empty bloom]

I think it is a disservice to think of the Skewer as a direct 'knockoff' of any weapon, but if I had to call it a knockoff of anything I would call it a knockoff of the H5 Binary Rifle due to its significant vehicle damage and significant damage overall, replete with a lack of charge time and a finicky firing scheme.

People go 'splaser' because the splaser is the defacto thing that pops into people's head when it comes to huge range instakill guns that get slapped on the shoulder, but the Skewer shares more mechanical similarities with the Binary Rifle.

This phenomenon is also shared by the shock rifle, mind.

[dusk jetty]

That’s true, I am a splaser Stan I’ll admit it

The shock rifle is one replacement I do like

[empty bloom]

It should be a Sniper Tier weapon, not a field tier weapon, IMO.

[dusk jetty]

The energy arcs make for some really cool plays you just don’t see from beam rifles

If it had dual zoom the shocker would be a beast

[empty bloom]

My problem is that the damn thing feels ubiquitous.

I mean I still prefer the skewer (because it is the Halo equivalent of punching someone who isn't expecting it directly in the nose as hard as possible), and the shock rifle is cool and all, but it feels like it's way more common than it has any right to be.

[dusk jetty]

The only real difference it has from the sniper is body shots ttk

If it was buffed any further, it would definitely belong in the power weapon category

It’s also a complete menace in campaign

Like, it’s not even funny how little a chance the banished has against it

[tranquil valve]

Purging shock rifle is ridiculously strong no wonder it’s mainly a campaign weapon

[exotic pulsar]

Honestly, I just don't like the Skewer, Ravager, or Mangler. The Skewer should have been only used for vehicles and it acts nothing like the splaser as it can't even hit stuff from across the map like it can. Also how the hell people use this to kill people at all ranges is beyond me as I can't get a kill to save my life and I am actually a decent shot.

The Ravager was just unusable day one and you would think a three burst plasma based grenade launcher that can do area denial can work but it just doesn't. It takes three burst shots to kill someone and by that time your opponent with any other weapon would have killed you. The reserve ammo for it is just abyssmal and even the overcharge AoE is just dogwater as it can't even kill a fully shielded spartan at full duration.

Then there is the mangler, crap range as the thing is only good for hitting others up close due to the projectile speed, and compared to the other three pistols it's fire rate is just absolute garbage. Not to mention despite using a speedloader it's reload animation is also slow.

These weapons were better off being replaced either by existing brute or covenant weaponry or had something different replace them.

The Halo 5 Plasma Caster would have been better then the Ravager at it's role and there is even a Banished version.

[unique rune]

skill issue

[dusty ferry]

The mangler is supposed to bxr people… you just described it working as intended

[orchid kettle]

yes but the Grunt Brute riders would be funny

Shoot the Grunt off, and the Brute flies into a rage

👌

[stoic hamlet]

It’s also a really easy three tap on most players.

[unique rune]

The Skewer’s range limitations are a feature if anything
not a bug or flaw
The travel time and projectile drop function as sort of a soft fix to the Splaser’s ability to instakill pretty much anything with pinpoint accuracy

The launch version of the Ravager blew chunks but I think they’ve buffed it a little? Plus the charged plasma puddle detonates dropped grenades
Bringing over the Plasma Caster probably would’ve seemed redundant since the Cindershot already functions as the game’s bouncing explosive with bonus disorientation

[empty bloom]

It's basically just the CE Magnum with more balance, IMO.

[gusty star]

We know we’re in the lore channel right

[crude belfry]

Precursors goo brrrrr

[unique rune]

child soldiers bad

[dusk jetty]

The normal grenade launcher, the Saw, the carbine and the plasma rifle are the only weapons I can think of off the top of my head that could fill a slot not taken already

[orchid kettle]

why the saw

[dusk jetty]

Rapid fire anti infantry

[orchid kettle]

why not just use the existing human turret

[stoic hamlet]

The Needler then.

[orchid kettle]

but tuned in such a way that it's not just a 10% stronger AR

[dusk jetty]

Because it’s slow and I can’t sprint with it 😡

[stoic hamlet]

Or the MA40

[dusk jetty]

Both of those need to be reloaded after one kill

[stoic hamlet]

Really though variety is more interesting, even if it’s already “filled”.

[orchid kettle]

the speed penalty is honestly overkill given how little advantage some of the detached turrets give

barring the scorpion tail of course

but otherwise, it feels like a novelty thats been in the series since 3, but its never been all that impactful

[dusk jetty]

I just feel that new weapons are always welcome but should contribute something rather than just taking up space

[unique rune]

The only gap I feel is still the lack of a full auto plasma gun
Feels weird to not have one
Even if the Pulse Carbine is kinda supposed to take that spot

[orchid kettle]

Id just argue that the SAW, as a fast killing automatic with almost DMR levels of accuracy, just isn't a healthy weapon

Its all benefits, no drawbacks

[dusk jetty]

Saw should have more spread were it ever to be added

[unique rune]

I still wonder if the Mosa/Vostu-pattern carbines being called carbines implies that there’s a silly looking full-length rifle pattern

[dusk jetty]

Not reach bloom levels but it should not be just fire concentrated volley, wait.

[dusk jetty]

I’d imagine something that looks like the stalker rifle

[unique rune]

I like to imagine it’s almost identical other than the barrel being 20% longer

[empty bloom]

The Scorpion Tail's existence honestly annoys the bejeezus out of me.

Makes me wish they just kept the damn support turret gauss cannon from 5.

[empty bloom]

I'm pretty sure they're just a carbine version of the Beam Rifle with better ergonomics, tbh.

I don't know what the Covenant was thinking with the beam rifle's ergo.

It's not even comfortable for them.

[unique rune]

The Sulok-pattern/Type-50 looks a little bit like a curveblade
I assume by coincidence IRL

Maybe there’s some weird symbolism to it

[versed helm]

Dude

Just got done reading Saturn Devouring His Son

Makes me want to get back into reading the books

[scarlet quiver]

It was good.
Totally predictable, but good.
It would make a great short animation.

I want to see the line held, then struggled, collapsed, then bombarded.

[twin venture]

Kind of a dumb question. Were there still insurrectionists during and after the human covenant war?

[unique rune]

yes

[twin venture]

Juz wonderin since humanity still be humanity, fighting eachother.

[tranquil valve]

So is there a condor with flood spartans on it somewhere in the galaxy now?

And don’t condors have slipspace drives?

[surreal glen]

Yeah, not that writers would care since High Charity doesn't even fit through a slipsace portal and even so that's how it got to the Ark in Halo 3

[crude belfry]

If a Spartan got infected by the flood and he was overtaken their would be a code name as weapons of mass destruction would be authorized to take out that said Spartan. It’s very dangerous in the lore as the Spartan host would spark horrible discomfort for the UNSC. Their is only one recorded Spartan that a helicon class cruiser was designated to take out

[unique rune]

...A what?

[crude belfry]

A Spartan

Anyone Spartan 2 3 or 4

[unique rune]

A "Helicon-class cruiser" is not a thing

[surreal glen]

Weird names, Halcyon class probably

[unique rune]

I'm not sure where you got any of that but at least half of that is either nonsense and/or noncanon

[crude belfry]

Yeah probably halcyon class

Actully

[unique rune]

The only known instance of Spartans being infected by the Flood that we know of is from the short story that went up on Waypoint earlier this week

[crude belfry]

Here I can show its in a book

I’m eating so I can’t

[surreal glen]

That's why this is a big deal
This is the first time in lore a Spartan gets infected

[crude belfry]

Yeah it was a story of a Spartan from Halo 3

I heard it somewhere

It was a Spartan 3 obv

And they got infected

[unique rune]

Wherever you heard it from is either lying to you or mistaken

[crude belfry]

Well maybe ok

[unique rune]

There's never been any canon instances of a Spartan getting infected until "Saturn Devouring His Son"

[crude belfry]

Yeah probably

Oh that I didn’t even now that was a thing

I’ll search it up

[surreal glen]

It's a new addition to the lore

Very recent

[unique rune]

In any case the whole situation with the end of the story is... vague, at best? I like to think that the little bit at the end is supposed to be a little snippet right before the Shivas obliterated Site 22 because I really do not care for the notion of a Condor carrying Flood-infected Spartans running loose through the galaxy

It's not even really clear if it's a Spartan at all anyway

[tranquil valve]

I think it would be cool if utilized properly

But it’s very new so we’ll have to see

[empty bloom]

If you're getting it from an alleged book like this, it's likely just someone's fanfic wiki.

[twin venture]

Were there any spartans that turned insurrectionist?

[unique rune]

At least one Spartan-II went Insurrectionist, Soren-066, after being crippled by the augmentation procedures and relegated to a desk job alongside an Innie sympathizer inside ONI.

A couple Spartan-IVs have went over, like Vladimir Scruggs and our pal Mickey Crespo.

[twin venture]

Mickey, one of the ODST guys?

[tranquil valve]

Yeah

[twin venture]

I see.

[unique rune]

My issue with it is the Flood getting utilized at all, because the way they work results in a sort of... narrative chokehold.
They're not just something you can leave alone, or else it quickly ramps up to doomsday scenario. So you have to drop everything else to to get them shut down ASAP, which has the side effect of watering them down as a threat.

[surreal glen]

Alpha 9 had a rather tragic separation

[twin venture]

I'm curious, tell me more.

[surreal glen]

Happens in the books New Blood and Bad Blood
Long story short, Buck becomes an Spartan 4 and marries Dare
Rookie dies
Mickey becomes an insurrectionist
Dutch retires
Romeo goes on his own ways

[twin venture]

Tragic.

Poor rookie

[unique rune]

It's detailed in New Blood but the short version is that Alpha-Nine was deployed to Draco III to deal with a local Insurrectionist uprising. Things went poorly, the Rookie was killed. Dutch retired and the remaining three were eventually made part of the Spartan-IV program.

Fighting humans made Mickey start questioning the whole UNSC thing so he eventually turned Insurrectionist and that was a whole thing.

[twin venture]

Interesting.

[covert dawn]

I have a theory as to how the first spartan got infected. We know that Cyclops' were deployed to Site 22, most likely Hazops Cyclops'. A simulation was run on the worst case scenario of one of them being Infected and utilized by the flood. It's possible this happened for real at Site 22 and the infected Cyclops was strong enough to breach the Spartans suit

[empty bloom]

@stoic hamlet So I was rereading Celox and I just realized how dumb something I was concerned about was.

"The Celox manufacturing template was recovered from a daring information sanitization strike on ONI's ordnance testing facility at Swanbourne" - CELOX

"Adapted from what could be interpreted of the strange records recovered from a Created data archive, MERCURY may be a glimpse into an unsettling future being built on occupied UEG worlds." - MERCURY

I don't know why it was ever surprising that the Created were homegrowing their own MJOLNIR. Even without the canon Executor program, they already had the means and ability to produce MJOLNIR systems with existing resources and create Spartans with existing knowledge.

(Swanbourne is a city in Australia, btw)

[deep citrus]

So I'm a little confused

The book the fall of reach barely had anything that could be considered the ground battle for reach at all, and instead focused first on John and then on the space battle for early human sectors

So what book has the ground battle for reach?

[unique rune]

As the book tells it, there wasn't really much of a ground battle.

[empty bloom]

There was no book about it beyond excerpts from the Spartan's perspective.

[unique rune]

First Strike goes into it a bit more, but it mostly focuses on the defense of the ODP generator network. Once those go down, the Covenant just kinda wipes the floor with the UNSC defense forces and burns the planet's surface to glass.

[empty bloom]

It's almost as though a supposed 'better odds of victory on the ground' don't matter when your enemy's default response to orbital superiority is turning your ground forces to dust.

[deep citrus]

Huh

So the game was basically just standalone and the characters were some of the spartans dropped off and then killed, eh?

I was curious about that because I didn't remember any names even remotely like Kat

[unique rune]

The game was essentially supposed to replace the book's version of events. Though it's written in a way that to me feels like they didn't want to fully commit to that, so the two are sorta compatible if you do a little handwaving.

The novel presents the Fall of Reach as a swift one-sided beating that only lasted like two hours before the planet was declared a lost cause, while Bungie's eventual vision for it was that it was a month-long military campaign.

[empty bloom]

One of the few times I actually agree with Bungie on how Reach should've gone.

[stoic hamlet]

My only real issue is how it was fixed.

They just had to change like, three dates from the book and it’d be fine.

Mainly the date of the armour test.

Move that up by like, two/three weeks and we’re golden. There’s basically no issues then.

[last anchor]

Typical lore woops tbh

[tranquil valve]

Most consistent halo lore

[stoic hamlet]

They just did an oopsie whoopsie.

[dusk jetty]

I like the idea of reach being a short, but extremely costly battle for the covenant, a real pyrhrric victory. They won, but we gave them a hell of a fight, and a fight that inspires and empowered humanity, (Remember reach in ODST all that.) and shook the covenant to its core.

Honestly, I think odst should’ve touched on reach more

Buck has some degree of pdst from it, given his reaction to the carrier glassing, and we see some graffiti about it, but it would be cooler to have more Easter eggs or voice lines and such.

If I was a jackal and some marine with his arm blown off from a needler round yelled “remember reach” and charged right at me, I’d lay an egg right then and there

[exotic pulsar]

idk if jackels lay eggs.

[dusk jetty]

They do

There’s a whole Villian arc about it in one of the h2a terminals

Blasted unggoy

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, the Grunt Rebellion. Mainly the covenants fault it happened anyways as they put the grunts and jackles in the same living space.

[dusk jetty]

Forgot his previous title but future truth recommended far harsher punishments for the offenders, but they got off scot free because his superiors couldn’t care less

Minister of Resolution maybe?

He wasn’t a prophet until after harvest

[exotic pulsar]

Right, and this could have all been solved if the Grunts had their own private chambers since they are known to have quite fast repopulation growth.

[dusk jetty]

The kig yar are also bullies. They only pick on the unggoy because they are technically the same rank but think they’re superior

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah they aren't even part of the covenant, their mercs.

They could have given less of a crap about the great journey so long as they were getting paid.

If anything that makes them even less then the Grunts because at least they are actually part of it.

Heh, just noticed the mining companies name is BXR.

[misty swallow]

I got a couple questions for the newest audiobook:
||1. Who was it at the end resisting the proto-gravemind? One of the Spartans or the main character?
2. Did them taking the condor occur just as the nukes went off or in the aftermath?||

[wary wing]

i think hiddin experia made a video about that book

[misty swallow]

I think he may have gotten some details wrong tho. More specifically about my second question above

I don't think ||the infected human in the end took the condor after the nukes went off, rather just when the nukes were starting to detonate on the surface of site 22. This is because the proto-gravemind mentioned something about the horizon glowing and to leave behind the food (fireteam that got infected) and quickly rush to a fleeing condor to enter it.||

[misty swallow]

I'm fairly convinced ||the snippet we heard at the end is the flood infected person making it to a condor right at the end of the 7 minute exacuation order when the nukes were going off||

[obsidian thistle]

The question you should ask is "why include that last section at all if you arnt meant to think it/they survived?"

[icy yoke]

UNSC had some time examine covenant plasma weapons. So from a standpoint, could have made a plasma feedstock MAC round more capable of penetrating/distorting energy shielding.

plasma feedstock warhead head of the MAC round, in essence a "Shapecharge" when round impacts enemy shield. Besides the kinetic energy of the round itself, the plasma bolt EM distorts shield.

Thus making missile salvos more effective

[gusty star]

Not all of them were like this

[spare kite]

My head canon is that everything that the Forerunners used against the Precursors did absolutely nothing, and that the Precursors only lost because they allowed themselves to be affected by what the Forerunners used.

[dusk jetty]

That’s true for most covenant classes though. Some didn’t care and just did what they were told while some were true devotees, like Maccebus and dadab

[gusty star]

I completely agree with you

Just was pointing it out to that guy

[stoic hamlet]

It leaves it open for the possibility but the odds of it actually occurring are slim to none.

Considering the previous POV to that scene mentions no Slipspace readings, no signs of any fleeing Condors, and no obvious alarm by anyone on the Saturn (relatively speaking) the odds the Condor escaped (even ignoring the logistics of the infected person getting airborne in time) are pretty slim to nonexistent.

[empty bloom]

Now I'm just imagining the flood attempting to jump to space-only for them to realize that the slipspace drive on that particular condor was overdue for maintenance.

[stoic hamlet]

Or not installed. Not all Condors possessed the drives.

[empty bloom]

Do we have any deployment numbers for how many Promethean Crawlers constitute their lowest form of organization, or are Promethean Organizational structures a mystery?

I can even work with a Crawler Prime to Crawler ratio.

[obsidian thistle]

Though!

Only a handful of dropships had managed to return while the others . . . well, perhaps the detonation of the Shivas had been a mercy compared to what they had likely been reshaped into.

The captain never fully checked before going to down his sorrows.

Mix that with the former mention that a lot of crew was new.

A sudden alert interrupted the captain’s well-rehearsed speech for new officers.

One could argue that stuff could be missed

Especially with the case that nothing said the Condor vanished into Slipspace

It could be in their back door, another sealed casket waiting to be opened

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I think it's a shame they zoomed in so hard on flood stuff for Mark Vb only.

I feel like they should've done something like Rusalka on Mark VII, then keep the Jorgeclone flood.

Which I get is a complaint about aesthetics on my part.

[dense falcon]

What kind of fighter ship is this?

[spare kite]

https://www.halopedia.org/OF92_Booster_Frame Its from Halo Legends

[abstract wren]

a Booster Frame

[obsidian thistle]

Lore news just in! Halopedia be old! XD 19 years old!

[scarlet quiver]

Wow. Older than some peeps in here.
🤯🥳

How many of those 19 have you been apart of?

[obsidian thistle]

Technically I was introduced to Halopedia in 2010... but I became a real editor in 2015!

So 13 to 8 years pending how ya view it.

[exotic pulsar]

No from the sounds of it at the end the flood did manage to escape using the Condor. Also if anything the flood form that escaped had to be an Infected Spartan because such a combat form would be to good to pass up. The flood consciousness at the time may have just been primal, but it would have had better odds spreading using one of the Infected Spartans then a regular combat form.

[empty bloom]

Wouldn't make sense for it to be a Spartan because the Spartans had Gallows.

Can't fight back if your brain is big gone.

[scarlet quiver]

How much does a flood spore really need to reanimate a body? How much could really be missing?

[scarlet quiver]

And you are greatly appreciated.

[exotic pulsar]

If I remember correctly the Gallows did go off on the first spartan that was infected while the infection was in progress of changing them but according to the audio book it didn't matter as the infection just kept on spreading.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean it did matter. GALLOWS denies the flood the knowledge.

Assuming it went off in all Spartans infected then it couldn’t be a Spartan at the end as there’d be no consciousness to fight back.

It would just be a body.

[exotic pulsar]

That is assuming if the GALLOWS did go off on all of the Spartans and we have to remember that the flood can infect systems as well. If anything one of the infections could have been quick enough to deisable the GALLOWS on one of the Infected Spartans.

[empty bloom]

I highly doubt it would be. Sensing flood in a closed suit is literally the trigger for gallows.

If it could be, this server's rules allow me from properly calling that out as the author fiat it is.

[exotic pulsar]

Well it is known that the flood can infect technology. So if anything as unlikely as it could there is still a possibility.

[dusk jetty]

It can infect AI, and thus any systems that AI control. IIRC, but I don’t think the flood can directly Interface and use technology

and again, the logic plague is less of an infection, and more of manipulation and the planting of ideas by the flood.

[empty bloom]

The problem is speed, not ability.

it takes more effort to detonate a fusion reactor (Basically, 'realistic' fusion reactors are actually very, very hard to set off on purpose or accident) than it does to detonate a primed charge on a simple chemical binary trigger.

Realistically speaking, it bothers me that MJOLNIR's systems don't also automatically zeroize for optimal tamperproofing-but most science fictions frankly don't know jack about what that is.

If I were engineering GALLOWS stuff I'd set the charges to detonate in the helmet and fusion reactor regions instead. Even if the corpse would 'survive', the flood would have unpowered MJOLNIR.

Maybe have an additional triggered remote sensor to know where the floodified Spartan goes.

[dusk jetty]

However, this just occurred to me, composed essences that were infected by the flood couldn’t be put back into organic bodies without some stuff happening, so maybe the flood can linger in digitised bodies

[orchid kettle]

In First Strike, Grace has her fusion reactor primed to blow after her death to prevent the Covenant from recovering her body

but for some reason, that's just not automatic, as Chief had to take the time to input a code in the back of her suit

[empty bloom]

2FA moment

[orchid kettle]

I still find it weird how sometimes, MJOLNIR is made out to be super advanced even by Covenant standards-- when apparently Elite armor also boosts their strength, and Prelates are a thing.

Halsey or Haverson in First Strike claim that they improved upon the shielding technology, but that sounds like a leftover from the original print, where humanity never encountered Elites until recently, and were reverse engineering jackal gauntlets as the basis for MJOLNIR

[empty bloom]

I imagine it's mostly special by virtue of being way more effecient or effective.

[autumn plaza]

I feel like Elite armor boosting strength is a necessary retcon. It was always weird that 280 pounds of meat in power armor could be challenged physically by 360 pounds of meat.

[terse lava]

regarding the flood escaping, think its implied to be Julian, rather than the infected spartan. Sure Gallows may have worked, but we also don't know how truly fast an infection form gains the knowledge of their host

[orchid kettle]

Personally, I've always been fine with the idea that all the Spartan enhancements were necessary just to place Chief and friends on the same level as the Covenant's Elites

Rather than them being indestructible superheroes who tear through everything effortlessly

Like, in Fall of Reach, the image of invulnerability Nylund builds up for the IIs is purposefully shattered when Hunters and Elites start showing up

Showing that their near-invincibility was more or less because they were only ever fighting Grunts and the occasional Jackal for most of the war

But of course, when you retroactively add all the stronger Covenant races into the war from day 1, and have the IIs retain their previous image of near-invincibility

That ends up implying that they're monstrously superior to all of the Covenant

Obviously I think they made the right choice. You can't make a halo game on weaponless grunts alone. It's just a shame that it ended up power creeping the Spartans to high heaven

(Though you could argue this didn't NEED to be the case, since Nylund also established that Chief was leading like 27 Spartan-IIs at a time. Even if an Elite was on par with a Spartan, there's no Spartan alive that's winning a 1v27 anyway.)

[empty bloom]

Halo, but every single elite and brute is a boss fight elite or brute chosen at random

As in, the same number of brutes and elites, but they're each one of the boss fight characters of either species.

Woe betide anyone fighting Brute hordes and rolling two dozen Halo Infinite Ultra Chieftains.

[empty bloom]

TBF, I think the modern interpretation is still that IIs were being 'wasted' most of the war due to their scarcity, only being sent to relatively 'cushy' assignments by Special Forces standards.

Which is different, but it's closer than what many people seem to think IIs were doing.

Like, as an example, Cal-141's mission in Babysitter would have been a cakewalk, if they didn't underestimate the tenacity of a concussed Brute Chieftain.

[orchid kettle]

There's also always the out of like, the Elites and especially Brutes just being dumber or at least easier to manipulate

[empty bloom]

IIRC part of the thing with elites is that they are way more predictable than Brutes, kind of like how sometimes a 'noob' player can outplay a vet by doing something no sane vet would ever do.

As in, the Elites will almost always take option A or B, which makes them smart but predictable, and Brutes would randomly pull a plan λΚμ and confuse the hell out of everything.

... Though considering the Brute Planning outside of a gifted few is mostly along the same lines as 40K Orks but smarter, I don't see how it's so much unpredictable as just stupid and reckless.

[orchid kettle]

Infinite does a decent job of trying to throw in that unpredictability when Brutes are throwing suicide grunts and fusion coils at you

I could imagine Brutes using their own underlings as ammunition happens fairly often

[river ridge]

i mean considering how long the war was and human infantry could beat covenant infantry i would imagine that chief and other II's may not have been all that better physically but were smarter which is how they plough through covenant

i worded that poorly but you get my point

[dusk jetty]

You’re correct. Covenant military doctrine on the ground side is inflexible and largely consisted of “overwhelm by force” tactics and such. Humans were completely capable of not only holding their own against the covenant ground side but actually winning. It’s space that’s the real problem.

Who could’ve guessed the same 3 strategies would not work

[stoic hamlet]

We see this happens to the Spartans as well at first in Silent Storm.

When doing exercises with the ODST’s, the ODST’s more experienced fighters initially struggle against the Spartans… but once they realize the Spartans are operating purely on understood training methodologies and going “by the books” they start to tip the odds into their favour, going from something like 25 ODST’s for one Spartan to 2 for every 1.

[empty bloom]

What gen was this?

[stoic hamlet]

Mark IV GEN1. Beginning of the War.

[empty bloom]

Ah

[stoic hamlet]

Still relevant though.

[empty bloom]

See, I find that interesting, because one would figure Spartans could actually break out of that shell pretty easily.

... Especially after IIIs and IVs came into the picture and injected a lot more variance to what Spartans do and how Spartans think.

[stoic hamlet]

The book also implies it’s because they’re in Zero-G, and Spartans struggle with that because a lot of their best abilities are hampered or outright negated by it.

[orchid kettle]

Well, it was thanks to Johnson's leadership, and while Chief is initially angri at how flippant the man is at expending his own troops, he realizes that Johnson is training the Spartans to deal with the Covenant

because the Covenant won't care how many soldiers they lose as long as they win

"John had seen them do it several times—most recently during the capture attempt at Netherop."

wait I thought Netherop was Oblivion-- the book after Silent Storm

oh they tried to capture a ship at Netherop on two different occasions

man denning sure does love his two planets

[empty bloom]

Write what you know, I guess.

[stoic hamlet]

At least Gao wasn’t the only human planet mentioned, lol

We actually got Mamore and Jericho VII named, which is yay.

[tranquil valve]

They should hire me to write a book where halo man shoot the alien and win

[meager pier]

Man, feel bad for the species of Netherop, got screwed over in this cosmic conflict

[dusk jetty]

||the Tier 6 one|| or ||The precursor fugitives?||

Because ||The fugitives|| got screwed awhile ago lol

[meager pier]

The native species, homies getting wiped out out cause the Precursor weapon ruining their planet

[dusk jetty]

Did a little trolling with the Divine hand

[past violet]

So... Rampancy is basically the A.I going insane because they're absorbing too much data, right?

But what if the A.I was plugged in to a storage device that had powerful enough proccessors, and like.. oodles and oodles of terrabytes of hard drive space?

Theoretically, could an A.I not go rampant or go beyond the stages of rampancy we know this way?

Or am I getting this wrong?

Like, you basically hook them up to a massive crypto mining rig, the local power plant, and a few hundred 100TB hard drives.

[dusty pilot]

well i think the AI is more like a Hard Drive themselves, a Hard Drive goes out after around 8-10 Years of constant use in a constantly on server setting, around 15-20 Years for regular use.

Eventually AI's after 7 Years (due to higher processses than a Hard Drive) probably also burn out and stop working properly, hence Rampancy.

kinda like our brains getting dementia for them.

[past violet]

Ah.

So plugging them in would have no effect?

[dusty pilot]

probably like a heart bypass or whatever machine hospitals put you on when your heart is no good, it can only work for a short period.

[unique rune]

Rampancy sets in because the AI is starting to hit its upper limits on space, so it might help temporarily but eventually you’d start running into those limits again.

[dusty pilot]

are all AI's copies of someones brain? or was that only Cortana? the smart AIs

[past violet]

AFAIK, dumb ai's are souped up programming.

[unique rune]

Smart AI are all created from existing brains

[past violet]

they're much more plentiful.

[dusty pilot]

i think the rampancy is like a Flash Cloned Organ, it will only last a short time, if Smart AIs are just flash copies of someones brain in a digital matrix, then they can only last for the 7 years or so.

[unique rune]

Cortana is unique in that she was the only one generated from tissue from someone that’s still alive since her donor brain was a clone of Halsey, rather than Halsey herself

[past violet]

Smart AI's are basically a 1-to-1 copy of a human brain but... computer.

[past violet]

I guess the fact Halsey was still alive at the time of the procedure helped Cortana live much longer?

[hot zodiac]

Yall should check out the slipspace experiment from Halsey's Journal.

[dusty pilot]

and maybe some forerunner AI health tech was somwhere in that data from the Forerunner data she got in Reach

[unique rune]

It could be due to all sorts of things but the main one is that the seven year limit on rampancy isn’t a hard and fast rule

[past violet]

That too.

Forerunner trickery is...

Confusing.

[unique rune]

It’s just a general rule of thumb the UNSC sticks to for safety reasons

[dusty pilot]

6-8 years is my personal estimate of how long they typically last

[past violet]

I mean, completely reasonable.

[dusty pilot]

6 years is safest to get rid of them, 7 years is pushing it, 8 years is dangerous.

[unique rune]

Some smart AI may have an extra year or two in them, but when you’ve got them running a warship it’s obviously not a risk you want to take

[past violet]

Yeah.

I think it might be in the A.I's self interest, too.
||At the beginning of HW2, Selena talks about basically game-ending herself. So presumably she just dragged System32 to the trashcan and hit Empty, or did some other method, completely of her own violition.||
(Halo Wars 2 Spoilers)

[dusty pilot]

she hit Alt-F4 on herself.

[past violet]

Opened task manager and hit select all.

[dusty pilot]

got to the motherboard and took a lighter to it.

[unique rune]

Mack/Loki had some tricks going on to help extend their service life in Contact Harvest, Juliana was pushing 9 years and starting to edge into rampancy during the events of The Cole Protocol

[past violet]

To be honest, the only halo books I've read are Shadows Of Reach, Fall Of Reach, and Last Light..

Which I lost my copies of for the former and the latter.

Glad I didn't misplace my SoR copy.

[dusty pilot]

i really wonder what happened to mack/loki...did he die on harvest?

it would be funny if in the 2560s they go back to Harvest and find a few harvesters and other automated farm equipment still going at it, made enough food for the entire UNSC for 100 years lol

[lethal field]

are ring worlds on the actual ring itself? that's what it looks like in the distance in Halo Infinite, but im just guessing

its the first halo game ive played heh so there's a lot if stuff i dont know about

im also guessing that the Forerunners could be compared to the Orokin in Warframe in terms being good/bad/indifferent

hard to say tho since I've only just ran into some Harbinger lady

I also see where it seems the Hard Light exotic in destiny 2 was derived from Halo ha

[latent junco]

"Ring Worlds" are just another term for the Halo rings, since they were used as containment and living structures for the Forerunners, Shield Worlds are also similar, though they are more planetoid, and created to be able to survive the firing of the Halo rings, keeping everything on them alive.
Halo's are also Shield Worlds, in that they can survive their own blast, but I believe Ring Worlds is the more common term.

The Forerunners were basically hyper-advanced humans, who created all of the Halo's (I believe there was about 10 or 14 rings in total, but most collapsed, and were rebuilt, but smaller), and they fired the rings, a long time before the events of any of the Halo games, as a way to wipe themselves out, for fear of becoming too powerful, and the more intelligent ones taking control.
A few survived for a while longer at least by residing on Shield Worlds, or inside one of the rings, when the rings were fired, but (as far as I know) none of the original Forerunners exist as of the Halo games.

All of that is just from memory, so I might not be 100%, but that's as well as I remember, and should be good enough for a simple-ish overview

[gusty star]

It’s been stated that you cannot survive the firing of the rings by residing in a ring

Also the Didact survived til the Halo games

[terse lava]

Yes, the Halos are ring worlds/fortress worlds made by the Forerunners, created to wipe the galaxy of sentient life to starve the parastie Flood, whom the Forerunners had been at war already for 300 years. As for the Forerunners themselves, they could be compared to your typical Ancestor/Precursor races. As for the Harbinger and the Endless, they were introduced with Infinite so no previous lore to work off of.

[last anchor]

As far as we know, yes. Though some people have theorized he could be rebuilt from whatever remains could be extracted from the Jotun harvesters

Theres no farmable land on Harvest anymore, though. Its nothing but glass and nuclear winter.

[last anchor]

Primordium disagrees. Zeta Halo fired at least twice and the life on its surface survived.

[dusty pilot]

maybe the rings have shielding or the array pulses misses certain sections of the ring? i see the pulse in some terminals as like a flat pulse across a specific linear trajectory, maybe the pulse isnt a orb but a rapidly expanding disc and can miss some parts of the ring

[stoic hamlet]

@dusty pilot Mack had only one JOTUN still operational by the end of the book, and as he notes “it was heading to the barn and he couldn’t stop it”.

[dusty pilot]

so maybe like the Noble Six in a Cave on Reach, Mack is just holed up in a small barn with his Combine waiting to come back into the fold?

[last anchor]

Im fairly certain Harvest was fully abandoned

[stoic hamlet]

The barn was a metaphor. It was shutting down.

[dusk jetty]

Yep. Humanity never came back after they took it back

[fleet oriole]

Couldn't they...

Couldn't they just rebuild it?

Harvest I mean.

[empty bloom]

Vitrified earth and mass graves are generally hard to build on top of. Even then, it wouldn't be a garden world again for decades.

[last anchor]

Theres other worlds that too priority, namely Earth, Meridian and Reach.

Presumably if they stop getting stamped on the UNSC will eventually get around to reclaiming Harvest, but returning it to any form of habitable or at the very least profitable planet will take a long time.

[past violet]

Harvest also, presumably, has an almost stigma to it.

Like, it was the first planet to get glassed in the way it did after being fought over. Kind of a sore spot for most folks. I doubt anyone would want to go back to it.

[river ridge]

i mean in the last cutscene for reach its 2589 and they just got around to recolonizing it

and reach was probs their number 1 priority to rebuild

[fleet oriole]

What? Why?

Reach was arguably one of the most bloody.

[river ridge]

as in why was reach their number 1 priority?

[empty bloom]

There's a lot of lore regarding the UEG's corporate philosophy regarding rebuilding and sectioning glassed worlds in Halo 5 that people frequently miss because it's not fixating on some other dumb thing that made them angry.

[fleet oriole]

Yeah

[empty bloom]

Reach was nowhere near the number one priority of those corporations, mostly due to the area generally being a hot zone and graveyard even by post HCW standards.

There was work done, but the bulk of the work was being done on smaller worlds with less of an emotional and cultural significance that got glassed.

[river ridge]

it was humanities 1st colony and at the time basically earth 2.0 so i'd assume they want to reclaim reach asap

[empty bloom]

And you'd be assuming wrong.

[river ridge]

fair enough

[empty bloom]

Also, the UEG's corporations could more freely exploit the labor being used when it came to glassed worlds getting terraformed due to the lesser importance of the worlds in question.

[river ridge]

oh yeah you're right

mb

[empty bloom]

Which is a significant point of why Governor Sloan and the other civilians at Meridian hated the fact two teams of Spartans were on world.

[fleet oriole]

I don't think Humanities economic situation would matter at that point though?

[empty bloom]

It absolutely did.

UEG's corporate underbelly had a stranglehold on a great deal even during the HCW, it just wasn't relevant to the games for the most part.

After the war, growth potential and property rights were a bloody and contested quagmire that allowed for corporations to get lots of land very cheaply-for redevelopment, resources, and redistribution.

Glassed world? Exploit unearthed and rare resources from glassed worlds and sell the land-or have worker colonies on your land to do both at once.

[fleet oriole]

Talk about cutthroat. Thousands if not Millions of people burned into the very soil.

[empty bloom]

Was humanity ever anything but?

Interestingly, another thing 5 touched on was that a lot of the workers were usually glassing survivors-some of which may've even been returning to the worlds they left from.

And that their conditions and mental state is... Generally poor, mostly due to what the work entails. Some highlights from audio logs;

"The plasma they use to glass planets burns so hot most stuff just vaporizes. But sometimes there's a flicker in the beam and the temp drops just enough. That's how get you stuff that's still intact. And yeah, sometimes you get bodies. It's ugly, but I didn't get hung up about it. What gets me though is the dogs. Just excavated a homestead and there was a leash leading under the porch. So I'm taking the day off."

"I found a body in the glass today. Shook me up. Doc Cale said I should talk about it, so here, I'm talking about it. Think I'm done now."

[river ridge]

i blame the covenant

[fleet oriole]

True, but Chief and others like him have proven otherwise though, hell. Edward Buck is the perfect example.

[river ridge]

glyke was deserved trust me

[empty bloom]

Chief was made for the express purpose of cutthroat actions by the UNSC and got repurposed to a nobler tasking.

[river ridge]

what about noble team and the marines you fight with in the games

actually scratch noble team i forgot about emile

[unique rune]

I mean they're kinda besides the point

The UEG largely still functions as a capitalist system. No one's going to fix up a burnt planet for free.

[empty bloom]

Jorge's legacy is the same as Chief's. The rest of Noble was originally envisioned as an anti-Insurrectionist/anti-Covenant hybrid force, which is why Emile and Rosanda are on retainers. The IIIs in general are a brutish, barbaric approach-a knife to the hand to save the heart, so to speak.

[river ridge]

and lord hood, keyes, cole, whitcomb

and cutter actually

[empty bloom]

Keyes participated in the II program. Cole, Hood, and Whitcomb, and even Cutter are all exceptions that prove the rule.

[river ridge]

fair enough

[fleet oriole]

Can't argue it, but maybe it's because I share the sentiment that everyone who needed to pay, payed.

[river ridge]

but wouldnt most of the cutthroat stuff be coming from the UEG and ONI not necessarily from the UNSC

[unique rune]

The UNSC is just the military arm of that whole system

They're not really separate entities

[empty bloom]

The point is that the HCW only put off the Insurrection.

It never stopped it.

[fleet oriole]

Plenty of them died heroes.

[empty bloom]

The UNSC and UEG never learned as much as they should have from the debacle.

You know, I do think it would've been interesting to have a map or level on Meridian taking place in a dilapidated, glassed-over Scorpion MBT manufacturing plant.

As that was one of the brightest parts of Meridian's sad history.

The Scorpion Plant, not the glassing.

[stoic hamlet]

He also still did those actions.

Shadows of Reach mentions he assassinated the leader of an independent colony (Gao) in 2550.

[empty bloom]

No, Eternal. Whatever Gao did, they clearly deserved to have their leader die for, thus making Chief the good guy. He's never in the service of a truly evil group, like ONI.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, using “good” and “evil” is pretty “ehhh” overall.

[empty bloom]

I'm being facetious.

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, the idea that any Spartan is a saint is kinda wild.

A lot of people tend to forget (or ignore) that Alpha Company’s first assignment was beating down a rebellion on Mamore. The Spartans supposedly expressly made to fight the Covenant, mind.

[empty bloom]

I mean, hey, civvie skulls pop as easily as Sangheili ones, I'm sure.

[stoic hamlet]

Ah, sorry, he didn’t assassinate him, he tried to, but said leader wasn’t there.

[empty bloom]

I always found it funny that people took Six's characterization of being the personal boogeyman of Ackerson must mean he's done awesome, good things.

On the subject of IIIs.

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, again, lol

[empty bloom]

Ackerson was one ruthless fella. I doubt he was above a little red blood on a Spartan's fists.

[stoic hamlet]

Tbf, we don’t know it was Ackerson. By other lore tidbits it was likely some UNICOM officer from the Air Force.

[empty bloom]

Wait, the UNSCAF? Due to Sabres?

... That makes sense.

Ackerson having a vested interest in the Sabre program would make a bit of sense, but it does contribute to the whole "Halo only consists of 20 characters per three-four decades" problem.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. It’s why I don’t think it should be Ackerson. It also doesn’t really fit him, IMO.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I just want a Spartan to unambiguously be a person who is very morally in the dark grays due to what they do, like ventilating rebels who aren't unhinged frothing maniacs the moment the UEG comes up.

[stoic hamlet]

Spartans are created for great deeds, both in the light and dark. Those who don BUNYIP are chosen for missions where the unforgivable must be executed to prevent the unthinkable.

They’re out there, thankfully.

But yeah I’d like brutally efficient killing machines, please.

Not monsters.

Just professionals.

[empty bloom]

Resists urge from talking about his fanfic because it involves ex-ODSTs trash talking Spartans only to encounter a IV wearing War Master in a boarding action

[stoic hamlet]

Reminder WAR MASTER is used for COIN operations….

[empty bloom]

Honestly, based decision.

[tranquil valve]

What’s COIN

[empty bloom]

Counterinsurgency.

[runic wharf]

What's the fastest vehicle

[tranquil valve]

So they take the armor known for neurological side effects and use it to fight insurgents

That’s one of the more tame things the UNSC and ONI have done

[tranquil valve]

Lore wise? Probably mongoose and banshees

[empty bloom]

Presumably, most slipspace capable vessels.

[orchid kettle]

im gonna guess the banshee because the banshee is basically a space fighter

[last anchor]

Actually the Banshee's fairly slow.
Im not sure it can break Mach 2.
The UNSC probably holds the speed record with stuff like the Nandao, which is basically just a fusion thrust engine with a cockpit strapped to it.

[last anchor]

Cant decide of the noise playing would be the Doom soundtrack or something from Darktide.
"Disposal Unit" comes to mind.

[last anchor]

"Im a professional. And professionals, have STANDARDS"

[empty bloom]

Considering the trash talking is stopped the moment one of the ex-ODST's visors fails to stop a one-ton raging supersoldier's fist to the point of pancaking against a bulkhead, I'd say more rip and tear.

I like how people casually forget that a Spartan can crush the head of a helmeted spec ops elite, lmao.

[last anchor]

Spartans get undercapabilitied quite often I feel.

[empty bloom]

Well, kinda

If you're a named II or III, you'll likely get exaggerated to the point of soloing Calgar.

[last anchor]

True.

Linda in First Strike

[lethal field]

does Halo: Guardians take place on the same planet,er ringworld as Halo Infinite?

[empty bloom]

No. The worlds traveled to in 5 are;
Kamchatka, Meridian, Genesis (Forerunner world), Sanghelios.

[tribal trench]

Guardians takes place on several worlds, and none of them are Zeta Halo

[tribal trench]

was Kamchatka the planet in Osiris?

[lethal field]

oh, cause I'm at the Spire right now in Infinite, and since I never played the other games, I had to look up what was so bad about reformation there

something there was destroyed i guess by cortana in another game?

silent auditorium or something

[tribal trench]

the Reformation is an event unique to Infinite

[lethal field]

oh

ok

well i guess i'll fight the monitor and see what unfolds from there

[tribal trench]

the Created Uprising was an event in which Cortana, a UNSC AI, convinced most smart AI across occupied space to subjugate the various races of the galaxy

she used forerunner super-constructs called Guardians to do it

[lethal field]

which i guess was the last game

[tribal trench]

you can see one far into the distance when on top of a couple of Zeta Halo’s various mountains

[lethal field]

on the ring?

it looks like more land

[tribal trench]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/918143965348372500/924775608679022612/20211226140555_1.jpg?ex=655a7de6&is=654808e6&hm=5f6a649d04eb38ba253db2f6ee20dd25a47943a3f9c6d3fa761f1ca0f5792b0b&

right above my retinal

retical

reticle?

reticle.

[lethal field]

the spikey thing

[tribal trench]

yup

[lethal field]

is a guardian?

[lethal field]

I assume the whole ring is supposed to be livable on

[tribal trench]

That’s half the point of a halo, yes

the other half is killing every vertebrate that is not on a halo in question

[empty bloom]

Yes

[lethal field]

except for that HArbinger woman right

the endless or whatnot

[tribal trench]

I’m not actually sure

[empty bloom]

https://www.halopedia.org/Kamchatka

[tribal trench]

based on what I can see and what I know about the biology of creatures from earth, it’s possible that the Endless are not vertebrate

[lethal field]

oh, well I had to read what the halo array was

[tribal trench]

which would make sense since Halo didn’t kill them

[lethal field]

yea

[empty bloom]

OOF

Wow, okay

Thanks for not swapping when I clicked game

[tribal trench]

LMAO

[empty bloom]

Yeah I'm saying dumb things in Stellaris because the game's slow

[tribal trench]

DM me, I desperately need to know the context

aw that’s lamer than I hoped it would be

[empty bloom]

Yeah :c

[tribal trench]

yeah maybe be more careful next time

[lethal field]

the Guardian aspect reminds me somewhat of something from the Warframe lore, not saying one copied another, just the Forerunner reminds me of the Orokin, and the Guardians look like Sentinels

[tribal trench]

Halo is a lot older than Warframe

and the Forerunners were there from the beginning

[lethal field]

yeah i know ;p I remmeber hosting a LAN at a store I worked at for Halo 2

altho i never played an y Halos until Infinite

[empty bloom]

I mean that was warning 2. As long as y'all know that was a misinput, lmao

[tribal trench]

although pre-human civilization has been a pretty common sci-fi trope for longer than halo has been around

wasn’t that a theme in Marathon?

[lethal field]

altho Warframe was also from an older game, forget the name offhand

[tribal trench]

I think it was popularized by Alien

which halo took a lot of influence from

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Precursors

[lethal field]

funny though how most things in fiction are derived from nature

like the humans and xenomorphs running around are just a bigger scale of everyday life with insects ;P

[tribal trench]

there’s a theory in the creative community that everything is just a remix of something else

and nature came first

so

everything is a remix of a remix of a remix of something from nature

[lethal field]

pretty much yeah, i guess you notice more as you get older/learn random stuff

some things I don't understand why nature would do such a thing lol, but I give up at some point

[tribal trench]

Like what?

There’s an explanation for everything :p

[lethal field]

true, just, ok like for example

lemme get the names so i can be exact

ok so you know june bugs right

there's a fly, called Sarcophaga aldrichi, who chases the june bug in flight and lays it's eggs in the back of it's neck area where it can't reach

[tribal trench]

gross but not unheard of

[lethal field]

the larvae hatches and pretty sure it consumes the june bug

but why specifically that

does it really have to chase a june bug

usually there's some kind of evolutionary advantage to things

[tribal trench]

at some point the june bug, or something that looked like a june bug, was the easiest target

[lethal field]

lol

[tribal trench]

now it’s just ingrained in the DNA

[lethal field]

becasue thaey are dumb I guess

tire themselves out from hitting stuff too much

[sacred rain]

oh i gotta ask haruspis if he agrees with what grim and i were saying about the bbq story

[lethal field]

they dont fit the survival of the fittest phrase

[sacred rain]

what does the food taste like

[lethal field]

them and koalas

[sacred rain]

we agreed on pulled pork

(make it real so i can say i technically wrote lore)

[tribal trench]

pulled pork with some light seasoning

(i want to say i’ve wrote lore too)

[sacred rain]

grim said the wood used would be a nice one iirc like oak?

we then proceeded to get very hungry for bbq

[tribal trench]

wood used for what

[sacred rain]

smoking the meat