lore-and-universe

[warm ridge]

I've read a lot of it so far. It's confirmed so many theories of mine within Halo lore that I'm happy

[dusk jetty]

Bungie was weird with some CE plans

[unique rune]

Bungie had a lot of weird ideas that they threw around lmao

[warm ridge]

All those years of arguing finally paid off 😳

[unique rune]

Like the one idea for Halo 2 where Miranda kills the Chief by slapping a bomb on him or whatever to avenge her dad

[safe hawk]

Really good book so far, I hope it does big numbers

[warm ridge]

AFAIK the plan for Cortana to go crazy was a Bungie idea that they tried to do at least twice. Once in H1, and once in H3

[dusk jetty]

Arbiter discovering that humans were forerunners (not trying to start an argument, this is a genuine scrapped storyline) was one example. The ark was a tomb of sorts, and arby stumbles across a sarcophagus. I’ll admit, it sounds a little cool, but definitely would not fit with the rest of the story.

[obsidian thistle]

Thats... been argued if it was more a joke or not.

Bungie had a weird MO of joking with stuff in bts stuff, and smudging details in art books.

[warm ridge]

If anyone here has seen my arguments involving Halo lore then you should know already

But yea, it hard confirms a ton of stuff

[obsidian thistle]

Cant wait to see all the Wiki edits folks do

XD

I hear its so vague in a lotta aspects so thats bound to create funky stuff

[dusk jetty]

I have respect towards folks who maintain articles on wikis.

Especially controversial ones

[warm ridge]

In some areas it can be but for the important stuff it isn't

At least so far

[meager pier]

https://tenor.com/view/spirit-athame-gif-23138976

[orchid kettle]

Ive heard the Created were intended for a while, but it would have been Sloan leading them, instead of Cortana.

Apparently because it was a desire for Chief to have a wider range of villains he can battle on the reg?

[orchid kettle]

This may explain why he's now trying to lead the Created in Cortana's absence. As a way to try and reincorporate that existing idea.

Frankie tho at one point insisted Cortana coming back was always the plan, but if so, I find it strange that they didn't give Cortana's death more wiggle room at the end of 4

Like, you watch Didact fall into a portal, and it's not a huge surprise that he'll be back (Even if its not in a game).

But they perhaps did too good of a job selling you on the idea of Cortana being gone forever.

[empty bloom]

It problably insulated me to 4 when I didn't like Cortana before.

And even back then I told my friends "Watch this, she's gonna come back"

[safe hawk]

It still gets me to this day that people believe they were going to kill off cortana permanently at the beginning of the new trilogy.

[meager pier]

Do you think the Weapon will take the name Cortana or something else? I think they left it open ended as to gauge fan response to name possibilities

[boreal bane]

Probably something else

[meager pier]

I've heard some speculate that they may name her Joyeuse, given all the AI names related to the Charlemagne legend

[abstract wren]

Cortana is not about Charlemagne but English king

[hot ravine]

Personally, I very much read that moment of the Weapon asking “Would it be okay…?” at the end as her asking if it’s okay for her to detach herself from Cortana’s legacy and name herself something new, which seems a natural culmination of Infinite’s theme of choice and self-determination.

[fair hazel]

I'm still hoping for Joyeuse or Durandal

[empty bloom]

Cortana would be an exceptionally frustrating cop-out.

And justify every accusation I've ever made regarding replacing goldfishes.

[last anchor]

I really don't think they're gonna do that

[pale zenith]

i rly want it to be joy, it fits her alot

[surreal bay]

Unrelated to the robot talk, what do you guys think about UNSC Rangers and Airborne?

[last anchor]

They exist

Supposedly the Rangers causes headaches for the Covenant

[pale zenith]

TIL UNSC airborne exist

i jus figured odst handle that

[surreal bay]

I'd like to see Rangers, Airborne and Army in more lore or games. They're pretty neat.

[pale zenith]

same tbh, anything broader unsc im down

[surreal bay]

ODSTs function similarly. I assume it's how modern US special forces function, para jumping into objectives in smaller groups, while airborne do broader assaults.

[pale zenith]

h4/h5 kinda forgot the other branches

airborne drops but not drop pods?

as in parachutes still?

[surreal bay]

The UNSC army only appeared in Halo Reach.

There are Army soldiers on Zeta Halo, that is unless they got killed by Banished.

[pale zenith]

there def are survivors fr

[surreal bay]

No clue. Barely anything on them.

[pale zenith]

the infinite story has crew survivors

in tents and stuff

so im sure there are some

[surreal bay]

I doubt any non combatants lived. Most survivors died at the reverie I'm assuming.

There were two or three dozen Spartans at the reverie when she fell, and it did not end well for them.

An airborne trooper had a quite in Spartan assault, and parts of their armor are in Halo Reach.

[pale zenith]

oh yea by survivors i mean few hundred

likely most died

rest scattered randomly

[surreal bay]

There were around 800 UNSC Army personnel onboard the Infinity, and things aren't going very well for the infinity and her crew, so if there are they're definitely scattered.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rendezvous coordinates made it to certain UNSC forces and they're on the opposite side of the Ring or something.

[last anchor]

The SIII Alpha company trainees used em

[empty bloom]

I want a full expansion on UNSC Special Forces in general.

I've gotten in some pretty heated discussions over it in the past.

Like, I really want there to be a UNSC equivelant of most, if not all, existing modern Special Forces that would have a snowball's chance in hell regarding surviving as a tradition to 2525.

From UNSC Air Force Pararescue teams embedded in ODST units for special purpose evacuation missions, to UNSC Navy Seals operating in blue and blackwater operations.

I'd also love to see more non-ODST troops use ODST armor due to it seemingly being the default 'heavy armor BDU'.

[surreal bay]

I doubt ODST teams would ever be solely for evacuations. Police forces seem to be minor military forces in Halo 3 ODST. Just not well trained. Plus UNSC Army usually deal with planetary things like defense and evacuations.

[empty bloom]

More working alongside for extra force, with the Pararescue being the operational pointmen of the mission due to specific mission knowledge.

Army and Air Force actually serve some pretty valuable taskings; For example, Air Force tends to operate in-system blackwater (space) affairs due to the Navy being more of an expeditionary force in nature.

UNSCAF also handles the ODPs.

Their roles are more defensive in nature but no less important.

[empty bloom]

Also, ODST teams have been used for that specific purpose more than once.

far, far more than once, in fact.

UNSC Air Force operates in an interesting inbetween between the Army and Navy, largely dealing in in-system and in-orbit affairs the Navy is not equipped to handle as well as the games make it seem. In terms of actually organizing mass and minor full planetary evacuations in the in-system stage, this should mean that the brunt of the logistics of said operation should, operationally, full under the UNSC Air Force's jurasdiction, with ancillary operations being conducted by all other branches to facilitate these movements.

As a result of this unique position, the UNSC Air Force's Pararescue service-as well as Combat Controllers, for similar-but-distinct reasons (Organizing UNSC Air Force air strikes as embedded forces in other special forces teams), would reasonably have a very good reason to exist into the 26th century; In the interest of a coordinated and effective evacuation of civilian and martial resources on a micro and macro scale.

(Keep in mind I said "should". Not "is", though I feel like I make a pretty good case)

[old flower]

"they put the master chief on the mtn dew"

[grand prairie]

Does anyone know what all of the different colors of the H5 and H4 Jackals and Grunts mean? The elites were easy to figure out and some of the grunt colors are obvious ranks but I can not find much on the jackals

Also does anyone know if the Halo Infinite Blue Grunts (Needler wielding ones) were used in the original covenant? If so what rank were they?

[unique rune]

The blue-armored Grunts are just a different type of Conscript
Functionally they’d be equivalent to a Covenant Grunt Minor like their orange counterparts.

[grand prairie]

So they were just the covenants inconsitancy and would be the same rank (kinda how the grunts in h2 and h3 are very different colors)?

[versed helm]

So whats the highest rank grunt colour?

[unique rune]

More or less
With 343’s Halo titles, they pretty much follow off the trend that Reach started where the armor type is just as much a rank indicator as the color, if not moreso

Color variation in Grunt and Jackal ranks doesn’t really mean much in 4 or 5 (so as far as we know a blue Storm Grunt is essentially the same as one in brown armor)

[grand prairie]

Thanks. So the only ones that mean rank are the Red Storm Grunts and Storm Elites being majors, the blue Storm elites and orange storm grunts being minors, the white storm elites being ultras, and gold storm elites being commanders?

[unique rune]

Nah, those colors don’t really mean much either. Or at least it’s never been specified. Any Elites (in-game) that use the Storm armor should all just be treated as part of the Storm rank, so on and so forth.

[grand prairie]

Hmm. I ment in the original empire they were those ranks, not in the covenant remenats.

[unique rune]

That’s a bit hard to say since we don’t really have much info on how the Storm rank really fit into the old Covenant’s rank system, outside of it being referred to as a specialist shock trooper role. It’s certainly possible that different armor colors might’ve corresponded to those ranks, but there’s no official material that says anything about it.

[grand prairie]

hmm

Thanks

[last anchor]

You wanna get a downed pilot out from behind enemy lines? Send in the Pararescue with two squads of Helljumpers as backup.

Nothing says "we're coming for you, buddy" like multiple flaming trails of reentry pods

[carmine sleet]

Yeah, that's how I read that moment too. I feel it'd be odd for The Weapon to go by Cortana, especially with the baggage Cortana's name has in universe

[boreal bane]

Same. Her personality, her mannerisms, everything about her said to me "I'm picking my own name". Quite looking forward to seeing what she chose :)

[versed helm]

If a military rank in the Halo universe is called Spartan, how come there are no references to Greek Spartans, besides the name?

Especially the Battle of Thermopylae.

[carmine sleet]

The Greek Spartans did exist, they're just long dead since Halo is set around 500 years into the future from us right now

Halsey got the name for the Spartan program from the original Greek Spartans

[versed helm]

Ughh, yeah.

[carmine sleet]

You don't seem happy with my answer. Were you expecting there to be Greek Spartans running around in the Human-Covenant War?

[obsidian thistle]

This actually has been mentioned in Halo!

https://www.halopedia.org/Battle_of_Thermopylae

I fight for irl stuff to get pages on the Wiki for this sorta reason! 😉

[versed helm]

I just wanted something with the UNSC like that, not an irl historic event.

[abstract wren]

Spartan is only a military rank for S-IV after 2553

[last anchor]

And even then its only an internal one as well, theres equivilent ranks for most other UNSC forces. The Spartan Field Guide mentions the rank equivilency.

[orchid kettle]

It reappears in the encyclopedia as well. Though instead of listing the equivalent, it just says there are defined positions in the chain of command.

Encyclopedia is a bit weird tho. It says a Spartan Commander commands 300 Spartans, but Buck was one back when he briefly served on the Meriwether

Which is a lil frigate

Seems like itd be really hard to house 300 supersoldiers, along with their armor assembly machines, and the entourage of technicians and medical specialists that follow them around everywhere.

In just one frigate

[last anchor]

Numbers are never clear cut in the military. Actual unit size can vary wildly

A Commander doesn't HAVE to lead that many

[empty bloom]

I'd imagine it's mostly on a conditional and even regional basis.

IE, Spartan Commandy Snuffy commands the 300 odd Spartans assigned to the 17th Fleet.

Which is spread amongst dozens of ships.

Or Spartan Commander Dufflebag commands the 300 odd Spartans assigned to ONI's special secret Squirrel commission squad on the dozens of seperate missions they're on.

[abstract wren]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/infection-intel#S4Intel3
new intel

[empty bloom]

Ooooh, translocator tech had some teething issues. Good to know.

[fair hazel]

Well t hat's cool

This is like some halo wars type stuff too with the MX-1050

I do wonder where that puts the spartan strike teleport ability

[empty bloom]

Considering it's a sim, it's likely a tactical test to prove out its validity as a tool.

[untold wasp]

with the quality of the intel drops, they should have one every week max

[gaunt ember]

do brutes eat humans?

[unique rune]

If given the chance, yes

[gaunt ember]

damn

they must be hungry

[grand prairie]

Are the Executors supposed to be canon? I get the simulation was but was the executors existances canon?

[unique rune]

One Executor exists, apparently

[orchid kettle]

There's a whole short story about them hanging out on a lil world and eating all the humans there.

There's a voice line in Infinite as well that implies that at least some of the Marine prisoners you rescue were being kept around as future meals.

[empty bloom]

One Executor is functional. The 'sim' is noncanon, but Executors are apparently in the cards of things the Created are starting.

[surreal bay]

Quick question. Did like a thousand Forerunners actually leave the milky way after the halo rings fired? I can't remember where I heard it from but I've had the idea of that in the back of my mind for a long time.

[dusk jetty]

Very few forerunners left after firing the halo rings, from what I recall. “The great journey” is a major exaggeration, because I’m willing to bet you could count how many forerunners actually left with a deck of uno cards

A thousand is possible, but I find it unlikely.

[obsidian thistle]

There is a few active still!

A "weird" case is the Catalog unit that's causing a headache circa 2552 through 2558.

[surreal bay]

That's what I guessed. It'd be neat to see them return or have some sort of part in the books or something. That and the Precursors. After hearing the run down for the new book I am super interested in them.

Sick.

Thanks for telling me.

[grand prairie]

Nice

Also are the infected spartans that Itarus created literally existing or just in the multiplayer similation computer thing?

[abstract wren]

-> spoiler !!!

[boreal bane]

@meager pier Please use the spoilers thread for any Outcasts spoilers
#1138515187490627695 message

[meager pier]

Gotcha

[boreal bane]

It's still not fully available everywhere and people still need time to read. General chat outside the thread won't be for another month at least

[meager pier]

👍

[last anchor]

They're canon though to what level we don't quite know

[dusty ferry]

We presumably would have gotten more if they didn’t stop the cutscenes, but the effort being moved elsewhere is for the best

[empty bloom]

We'll see.

No payoff yet.

[grand prairie]

I keep seeing all of the games seem to make the hunter worms different shades of orange or brown. Is there a in lore reason for them being different or is it just halo being halo?

[last anchor]

Different subspecies. There's variations within variations.

Same with most species.

[grand prairie]

True

[unique rune]

Usually when stuff looks different between games it pretty much just comes down to “the devs wanted it to look different this time” and then a lore explanation will be “it’s just phenotypic or production variation”

[grand prairie]

True. Kinda how the Halo 3 and 4 carbines are the same type but look different

[fair hazel]

They're not the same type

[grand prairie]

I thought they were both the Vostu pattern (at least according ot halopedia)

[fair hazel]

I thought u meant the halo 5 my bad

but, to that, the way they grow their stuff leads to a lot of different differences

[grand prairie]

What do you mean by grow? Are you talking about hunters or carbines?

[fair hazel]

Carbines

[grand prairie]

How are they grown? I thought they were made in assembely forges

[unique rune]

The construction process is basically like
growing

[grand prairie]

Interesting. Thanks

Does anyone know about how tall slugmen are supposed to be?

[versed helm]

Anyone know what happens to monitors after they die? Do they get replaced by another monitor somehow?

Cuz if not installation 09 has no monitor(09 is the 2nd remake of alpha halo)

[surreal bay]

I don't think they'll be remade unless their sub monitors. Actual monitors need a living beings mind to be transferred or something. I'm not very up to date with the forerunner series though.

[dusk jetty]

The case In halo infinite was that a sub-monitor would take their place as the “main” monitor. When despondent pyre was killed, adjutant resolution took over as the monitor of 07.

I’d assume it’s a similar case in the other rings, but then again, 07 is a little bit of an oddity.

[surreal bay]

In Rubicon Protocol, it seems like there's tons of sub monitors for specific things, but that could be solely for 07.

[grand prairie]

I remember hearing somewhere that just like each facility has different sentinals they also have different Armingers. Is that true? I can not find anything else on it.

[scarlet quiver]

So, sub question, outside of dying, did the Forerunners expect the monitors to have an expiration date, just an "too old or rampant to continue point"
as some stories bring up (not naming anyone...) monitors who have been in service too long?
It seems like they expected them to function properly forever, but some didnt...

[versed helm]

Idk

[grand prairie]

Don't they get replaced by another monitor that is nearby or the other monitor makes another? I guess if there are none nearby than nothing happens.

[versed helm]

Ok the first part is true but idk if monitors can reproduce and make more

[orchid kettle]

[grand prairie]

Didn't one of the monitors in infinite make another monitor at some point (Its been awhile so I might be wrong)

[versed helm]

No

When the original monitor was killed by the harbinger, a sub monitor took over

[grand prairie]

Yep. I mis remembered lol. For some reason I thought the original monitor made the sub monitor lol

Actauly according to halopedia I was right "Adjutant Resolution was created by 117649 Despondent Pyre"

https://www.halopedia.org/Adjutant_Resolution

[safe hawk]

I have a questions in regards to Spartans psyche. In halo 4, they were portrayed as having sociopathic tendencies.

Are there any books in particular that go into depth with that claim?

[surreal glen]

Who is Caleb Aagard?

[safe hawk]

It’s a spoiler in outcast

A great spoiler I might add

[boreal bane]

#1138515187490627695 message
Just a reminder to use this thread for Halo Outcasts spoilers

[dense moat]

WAIT THIS ACTUALLY MAKES SOME SENSE https://youtube.com/shorts/0gvBs--dYpA?feature=share

[carmine sleet]

They're definitely not the same person

[obsidian thistle]

The various COD timelines and Halo are not the same Universe.

[meager pier]

https://tenor.com/view/no-way-dude-no-oh-bugs-bunny-bugs-gif-22941840

[last anchor]

Much as I would love a remake of Infinite Warfare to make it canonical to Halo, yes

Again, Interplanetary War

[empty bloom]

It certainly has a plotline only Halo (3) could match.

[violet mica]

So, in MCC, the season 5 armors were for ANVIL station, which would’ve had Spartan IV’s, so does that mean Spartan IV’s wore Halo 3 style armor?

[obsidian thistle]

I wouldnt put too much thought into the canon status of how that all works! 🙂

[violet mica]

Alright, I’ll take it as canon that Spartan IV’s wore that armor some, I just like the idea of that

[tawny fox]

It may be possible the character of Emile was somewhat inspired by Ghost. If that’s what you mean by “the same person”

[dense moat]

Sorta, they are both some of the best characters in their own universes

[tawny fox]

Agreed

A little fun fact Master Chief himself in turn was based on a character from a game Bungie worked on before Halo called Marathon from the 90s

[terse rampart]

Why was a 'reclaimer' required to release the xalanyn, but not the flood?

[orchid kettle]

Probably the difference between like, the Harbinger being in a super special scifi device

and the Flood on Alpha Halo just being in test tubes

Only other explanation I got is that in CE, you only need to be a Reclaimer to activate Halo

And every other system is just fair game

And from then on, its just up to the writers how important being a Reclaimer is

[empty bloom]

IIRC it also kinda just smooths things along if you use an actual Reclaimer for many things. It's not necessarily impossible to make most Forerunner tech listen, but it does make it faster.

[orchid kettle]

Covenant have Huragok as well, even if they don't appear in game proper until ODST

[abstract yarrow]

Are we allowed to discuss Halo Outcasts? I was a bit confused by something.

[last anchor]

#1138515187490627695

[fair hazel]

I'm sorry what? Best character? What ?

[dusk jetty]

I always imagined that forerunner tech didn’t require a Reclaimer, as we can see that the covenant circumvented this with the luminaries, and were able to use installation 04’s systems, and in infinites campaign, there is banished tech around some of the doors in forerunner structures that suggest they were trying to get it open, and sometimes it looks like they succeeded too. Idk why they wouldn’t try the giant, massive door to the conservatory instead of melting through a bunch of alloy with a little Death Star mining laser.

It was, like trenchbird said, it’s probably just easier to use a reclaimer, instead of fiddling around with it.

Bet M’dama could’ve used that mining laser when he found requiem though

[carmine sleet]

Well M'dama did have at least one Covenant Harvester for mining operations on Requiem thanks to Gek 'Lar

[empty bloom]

See, Pins, the scratches made into Emile's goofy faceplate constitute to character depth.

That's how that works, right? Divots in helmets equal depth?

[safe hawk]

The bar is low for some people

[empty bloom]

Huh. I just thought of something. Saving Kat's corpse likely helped out Noble Team considerably given that the unit had basically been in nonstop fighting for days, especially Six, which tends to take a major beating. Wonder if they took the good parts off her armor while they were in the bunker.

Not like she was worried about it.

[woven mason]

So Arby knows about LOTR now which is weird

[drowsy mesa]

Well, it wasn't the Arbiter who made the LOTR reference

[tiny elbow]

I like that part in the lore when master chief said ,,I like Haloing'' and then he haloed all over the place

[woven mason]

I thought that someone told him who the characters were?

[shy garnet]

Why is chief’s armor different in halo 4

[dense falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-nanomachines-son-gif-25954092

[obsidian thistle]

the reality is that. Its no joke

[scarlet quiver]

Ooooh yea.
Cant wait for edible nanobots. Make my hammy sandwich taste even more delicious.

Like salt, without messing up your blood pressure.

[versed helm]

Now, does chief actually forerunner or human? We all know he's forerunner! Guilty Spark says so multiple times in Halo Ce and 3!

[empty bloom]

Guilty Spark is an insane ancient HUMAN mind locked in an ancient robot sphere, who outright has episodes of robot dementia in every appearance in every game he's been in.

Including one where he straight up entirely forgets when and where he is to the point of thinking Master Chief is someone who has been dead for nearly an eon.

[versed helm]

Born stellar makes eternal lasting?

[empty bloom]

Spark is not a reliable source of information. If I told you you were a potato in a fit of dementia, are you a potato, inheritor of all french fries?

King of the Idaho plains and herald of the Idaho potato festival?

[empty bloom]

The Didact, yes.

[versed helm]

The Iso-didact.

[unique rune]

i think halo is a pretty cool guy

[pallid knoll]

are Halo Infinite’s multiplayer Spartans Spartan 4’s?

[unique rune]

yes

[pallid knoll]

ok thanks

[dusk jetty]

No. Spark is like the Twitter of Halo lore. If your getting news from it, stop immediately.

I would trust captain Keyes over spark (I refuse to believe he could understand “WAAAAAUGGGHHH.” On the truth and reconciliation brig.)

[terse rampart]

I know halo legends isn't canon but could there be any explanation as to why there was a giganotosaurus which has been extinct for 95 million years?

[drowsy mesa]

Halo Legends, outside of some artistic choices and the Odd One Out episode, IT FULLY CANON

the Odd One Out episode its just a big reference to Dragon Ball (Toei Animation made that episode)

[gusty star]

What made you think it wasn’t canon?

[terse rampart]

The dinosaur for one

I worded the original question wrong

[gusty star]

You meant to just say Odd One Out I assume

[terse rampart]

Yes

Idk about the one right before or after it but the arbiter in ep3 is mentioned in the anniversary terminals and the first two episodes are literally Cortana explaining the halo lore prior to halo 4

[drowsy mesa]

EVERY episode in Halo Legends is CANON

EXCEPT Odd One Out

[patent dagger]

I was rewatching the Halo 3 ending, and I'm wondering, was it hardware limitations for the Xbox 360 back in 2007 or were there really only like a single frigate's worth of marines left

[frosty bear]

HELL YEAH I AM!

[carmine sleet]

You mean at the memorial?

Because the UNSC definitely wasn't down to just a single frigate of marines

[distant socket]

is the slipspace portal in halo 3 somehow huge because of the hardware at the time?

[empty bloom]

Limitations.

[surreal bay]

The Marines there were Marines that fought alongside the Master Chief. Stacker led the gun salute if I'm remembering right.

Throughout the games, you see certain Marines a few times. Dubbo, Johnson, Stacker etc.

[empty bloom]

I guess they stopped issuing dress uniforms, because if there was a time and a place to wear one, it's at that ceremony.

[carmine sleet]

That I chalk down to Bungie not wanting to remake the dress uniforms from Halo 2 just for that one scene

Even if they could've modified Hood's clothing for the marines

[versed helm]

Isn't Chips Dubbo immortal?

[pallid knoll]

yeah

if he dies in one mission he’ll come back in the next

sometimes quicker than that

[versed helm]

He died during the start of Truth and reconciliation. Then was inside your squad?

[pallid knoll]

Sergeant Johnson dies countless times in CE, but he’s perfectly fine

[versed helm]

Yeah, him and dubbo.

[empty bloom]

Oh, I know why. It's just kind of funny how some really dumb parts of that event are apparently canonized (Thanks, Escalation).

Like how the UNSC Army and Air Force never got invited to any form of war-ending ceremony.

Which... Come the hell on, Hood, what the hell. Way to spit in the face of forces who bled just as heavily.

[versed helm]

They were mostly wiped out.

The air force and army.

[empty bloom]

That's not an excuse lmao

And if it is, it's a really stupid one

[versed helm]

True. They deserved to be there

[empty bloom]

I don't actually mind a solid chunk of Escalation and Initiation, except for some of the officer-side stuff that makes no sense. Like that particular note.

[versed helm]

To have some ceremony. Even if it was about the deaths of millions.

[pallid knoll]

speaking of Hood, where is he in Halo 4 and 5?

[versed helm]

Probably retconned.

You know 343.

[empty bloom]

He is currently marooned on a UNSC world, developing alchoholism.

[versed helm]

Poor guy, he was in the kilo five trilogy.

[empty bloom]

Him and Osman both managed to escape HIGHCOM alongside a Spartan IV bodyguard with a cache of shutdown UNSC AIs to what basically amounts to a panic room on another world.

[versed helm]

Yeah, some cabin.

[empty bloom]

I'd assume they've likely been picked up by now, but you'd assume Hood's security detail would be more than just the one Spartan.

[versed helm]

Yeah, he was pretty powerful.

[carmine sleet]

He wasn't retconned, he was on Earth during Halo 4 and 5, given that Earth isn't an important location visited in those games, it makes sense he doesn't appear

[pallid knoll]

thanks

[spare kite]

The more I think about the genetic screening that the 2's went through the more holes I find it it so im just gonna stop thinking about it lol.

[grave pollen]

could someone fill me in on the live service lore so far, I’m lost

[empty bloom]

Where did you leave off.

[grave pollen]

Season 1 🙂

[empty bloom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wBU3AgEXco

You know what

This video does better than I would.

[grave pollen]

thanks yo

[empty bloom]

Oh :c

I went and made myself sad because I miss the MP story.

[grave pollen]

kinda hard to follow but looks promising

[empty bloom]

They scrapped making more cutscenes for it following Season 3.

Which is frustrating as hell because it was just getting great.

I feel teased by this.

[grave pollen]

343pls

[empty bloom]

[last anchor]

Im HOPING they bring them back at some point but hey

[abstract wren]

how could it be hard to follow ? It was only 5/6 cinematics

[grave pollen]

the cinematics don’t really give much background exposition

[abstract wren]

but there not much more then that. So I don't understand how is it hard to follow

[versed helm]

Just when it was getting good they scrapped it

[empty bloom]

@woven plaza Someone is competing with you for PHDs

[versed helm]

Plus since the last cutscene of S3 teased infection, a cutscene in s4 could tease something in S5

[versed helm]

No I have a PhD in phd

They have a PhD in phds

[woven plaza]

^

[drowsy mesa]

that if 343i launches a surprise cinematic at the end of S4.... which, sincerely, I don't think it'll happen

[grand prairie]

I heard somewhere that each facility has a different style of Arminger (just like how sentinals are). Does anyone know if this is true?

[cyan halo]

How screwed would the covenant be if guren lagann was around?

[empty bloom]

... Do you really need to ask this?

That's coughing baby versus an AC-130 with an aimbot.

[pallid fern]

Can't robot Spartans exist?

Like I think that maybe it could be possible

We had that concept art in the infinite book

Of what could be one, called a "drone" I think Apparently

[last anchor]

We also see one in the ending cutscene for last season.
Iratus is currently hijacking it.

[pallid fern]

You have a full model for it?

[last anchor]

Not on hand. But just go glance at Youtube

[unique rune]

In the case of Iratus it’s more like he’s puppeteering the armor and the Brokkr mechanism holding onto it. And then the Infection mode is supposedly him hijacking individual Spartans and their armor.

[pallid fern]

Yeah that's what I was about to say

I mean like an actual robot Spartan

Like with a human consciousness in the program

Do you think that can exist in halo?

[drowsy mesa]

Sloan is actually trying to do that right now

in the form of the Executors

https://www.halopedia.org/Executor

yep, the Chimera armor core is (sorta) canon

[pallid fern]

Aw man

I mean like a robot, who's as strong as a Spartan, that can put on the Spartan suit, and be like any normal Spartan

But they have a personality

Could that possibly exist

[unique rune]

I mean I guess you could have a smart AI running a robot body for that

But smart AI are relatively rare and expensive and only considered reliable for ~7 years and then after all the stuff with the Created uprising…

[pallid fern]

Dang...

[drowsy mesa]

The Executors are just like that: Smart IAs encased into "robot" bodies (mix of Mjolnir schematics and Armiger technology)

[pallid fern]

I was kinda hoping for a robot that's immune from the rampant stuff, that has its own consciousness, personality, and then it uses a form of the halo armor that it can put on

For combat

[drowsy mesa]

only dumb AIs are immune to rampancy

and those kind of AIs aren't designed to be flexible and/or adaptable in combat scenarios

[terse rampart]

How the hell do mgalekgolo weigh 5 tons when they are 12 feet tall?

Assuming that's excluding the armor

[carmine sleet]

Well there's your problem, you're assuming it excludes the armour

[warped gust]

I just had a thought about the Uplift Reserve Zoo from ODST. The Uplift reserve is a wildlife reservation around a Strategical Military asset, The Space Elevator.

The wildlife reservation was probably a political move to get the construction of the Elevator to Pass.

Similar to how the Master Builder reworked the Halos as Species Reservations. to manipulate the council from voting for the Sheildworlds

[versed helm]

How fast do the Skirmishers from Halo Reach run?

Cuz those boys be flyin

[dusk jetty]

That’s… actually probably true

Good Insight 👍

[warped gust]

I was just watching a video that mentioned the "Uplift Project" referring to the complex as a whole and it got me thinking. it wasn't even a lore video. just a Infinite forge remains of Terminal

[warped gust]

at least 7

[grand prairie]

I think up to 45mph although you might want to double check that

[stoic hamlet]

Well, they can learn/accept new information, but only in their specific field.

Like, Wellesley for example was activated in 2469, but he was still going into 2552.

[terse rampart]

Are there any translated examples of hunter war poetry or no

[zealous horizon]

When is next john halo game

[dusty ferry]

2121

March 32nd of 2121 is when the new halo comes out

[warped gust]

343 should have been called Ark Studios. I like the name343, bc 343 guiltily spark was the caretaker of Halo. but the Ark makes the Halos, and Guiltily Spark when crazy trying to keep Halo together so maybe not the best role model

[dusty ferry]

I’m pretty sure the name was taken or something

[zealous horizon]

Should we even except another halo game within this decade lol

[tawny fox]

Kinda like the combat androids from the Alien vs Predator game

Or even the working joes as they’re called from Alien: Isolation which were unarmed variants

[pallid fern]

Actually, yeah something like that I suppose

[drowsy mesa]

Yeah, but I was talking about how they lack creativity and mind flexibility (thinking outside the box)

[stoic hamlet]

I mean…idk, Wellesley demonstrated some pretty out of the box thinking, I think, considering the situation they were in.

But I guess a combat AI probably has quite a lot more lateral applications and history to draw on.

[carmine sleet]

Androids like those aren't really a thing in Halo

[tawny fox]

I think it’s possible in the Halo universe it’s just that the UNSC is a little far off from the tech to pull it off

Not to mention how expensive it would be in general to mass produce them

Like it really isn’t a far fetched concept considering what they already have achieved

[carmine sleet]

It isn't farfetched, it's just something that hasn't been done by humanity in Halo

[cyan halo]

Can Spartans reproduce?

If so, can the kids carry on their augments?

[carmine sleet]

Yes to the first, we've seen it with Orions and Spartan IIs

And while in the case of the Orion's kids they were suspected to have had some form of augmentation, it's not a confirmed thing

As for the known Spartan II, sadly the kid got killed by a bioterrorism attack using a weapon that targets humans

[static trench]

Combat Skins when?

[unique rune]

1. yes
2. probably not, unless the modifications make it into germline cells which is pretty unlikely since none of the augmentations even targeted those areas

Especially in the case of something like the S-IIs’ bone grafts or all the artificial organ replacements the S-IVs received

It’d be like getting a hip implant or pacemaker and expecting your kids to be born with those

[stoic hamlet]

Also possibly Maria. Though it’s not clear if she adopted.

[carmine sleet]

That's why I didn't bring her up, since we know so little about her after the comic she was in

I would like to know what she's up to though

Hopefully living a happy life

[stoic hamlet]

Could be helping resist the Created on Earth.

Assuming Earth isn’t back under UNSC control, anyways.

[carmine sleet]

I could see that

I definitely think it would be interesting to see if the humans on Earth rose up against the Created forces on Earth once Cortana was killed

[orchid kettle]

Having the big super muscles of a II but not the grafted skeleton sounds like a real bad time

since the reinforced skeleton is apparently necessary to stop the muscles from pulverizing the bones

[stoic hamlet]

I’m wondering if Sol is free by now. In May 2560.

I personally hope so, lol

[carmine sleet]

I'd hope so to

Like, maybe they've not yet got communications back up to the rest of the galaxy so when Chief or our multiplayer Spartan eventually goes to Earth, they get there expecting they need to fight, only to find that people are rebuilding already

[unique rune]

Bone Hurting Juice, now with 100% less juice

[safe hawk]

Where’s the link to the outcast spoiler thread

[gilded mason]

Click the hashtag symbol at the top right of the window

[empty bloom]

Highly doubtful. The Created have control of 300 SMACs pointing down and the UNSC Navy isn't back.

It'd also prevent the Created from being a major threat, which I love them being because I love that faction as a concept even if execution of them has been... Ghostlike.

[empty bloom]

Pretty sure the Created would/should have near total INFOSEC on Earth regarding incoming messages considering their status as causing a gilded cage.

Also doesn't help that the Created would/should have near total control of agriculture, and it's hard to rebel as a starving population when your opposing force is literally the entire reason that scale of agriculture is viable. Unless Contact Harvest lied to me.

Generally, I would hit a depth of loathing if they decided to portray the Created as so absurdly incompetent that they couldn't hold a crown jewel that they have literally every reason to have the biggest death grip on, from having basically a free Navy by killing the existing UNSC Navy Crewmen aboard the now-drifting ships of the EMP'd UNSC Navy, a free SMAC array from killing the existing UNSC Air Force Crewmen aboard the now-unpowered SMAC array, etc etc etc.

Really, just a grand slap in the face.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, the Banished no longer control Dosaic, (because it’s gone) yet they’re still a major threat.

The San’Shyumm have lost High Charity, yet everything we have points to them being a dangerous threat on the wings.

I don’t think the Created losing Earth or Sol makes them any less dangerous.

[empty bloom]

I do.

[empty bloom]

It also makes them look, as I said, absolutely incompetent and weak, which isn't what they should be portrayed as even or especially in the wake of the loss of their Guardians. The Banished were established as a fleet-based empire with largely transient forces, not ones tied to Dosiac-that is a very recent development in their long history. The Prophets may've lost High Charity, but they traded it for a, allegedly, a shield world and continued access to the lion's share of known Engineers.

If you want to reestablish the threat of the Created-or at least have them as a force that isn't essentially a damn clown-having them not only keep Earth but make it effectively impregnable outside of extreme circumstances (Such as, say, a unified UNSC task force with Swords of Sanghelios backup) is one of the easiest ways to do it. Conversely, if you want to portray them as incompetent idiots and throw a few years of lore down the drain while also fuelling a fair amount of detractors of an oft overhated period of the franchise's lifetime, you have them lose their backup crown jewel offscreen to a bunch of rowdy civilians backed by a leaderless government military with no teeth.

While the grand majority of the UNSC is currently trying to survive off of the scraps of their own corpse.

[stoic hamlet]

They already were incompetent and weak without the Forerunner weapons, we know this from the Encyclopedia and Sloan’s blurbs in FIREWALL. (Well, not necessarily incompetent, but definitely weak).

Without the Guardians they lack major military tools and lack the forces necessary to fully police the systems they control.

The AI mention in the intel about Chasm also makes it seem like Cortana blindsided almost all of them with her proclamations, meaning the faction as a whole wasn’t really anything unified, they rushed into something they shouldn’t have and couldn’t recover fast enough.

[empty bloom]

They didn't lose access to all their snazzy kit. Just the Guardians and maybe the Warden.

As for the lacking major military tools-as I said, they are literally in command-and have displayed a willingness to use-existing UNSC manufacturing lines to their own ends with their own tech, up to and including MJOLNIR grade kit. This likely includes shipyards, which humanity's homeworld should have plenty of, and there's still the matter of the likely crewless UNSC Navy in orbit over Earth that they should have recycled or kept. And even then, there should still be enough cooperation in the Created to at least, y'know, establish their control over Earth over the course of a year and a half.

Luckily for me, 343i's seemed intent on establishing the Created as still being at least partially competent behind the scenes with any internecine conflict seemingly limited to arguments and debates over future actions, not acts of self-sabotaging destruction.

So hopefully they don't go for the poor decision of mostly offscreening something that important like Halo's historically done for years with no end in sight. I hope.

[stoic hamlet]

I’m not saying they should off-screen the created, far from it.

I just don’t see how them continuing to hold Sol is a good idea for the setting long term.

[empty bloom]

Why not?

[stoic hamlet]

The UNSC can’t be on the run forever. They can’t keep coming back from “the brink of destruction” forever without a dedicated, proper power base.

And Sol is the best they can hope for, really.

[empty bloom]

It's half the reason Sol getting kicked out from under them hurt so bad.

You shouldn't undo that booboo by giving it back like that.

[empty bloom]

The UNSC's basically in the same situation as the SLDF right now following the beginning of the Amaris Coup, as an aside. Just a funny parity I noticed.

They're stuck to periphery worlds and have decent, but not amazing, forces as far as we know, with no real effective production capability.

Complete with still having sizeable units of powerful ground forces.

To continue the parity, I think it would be better narratively for the UNSC to actually earn the victory in a less easy manner. Taking over other worlds and taking other sources of manufacturing capability if possible, scraping at the edges and rebuilding enough power on the lean for the capability to take back Earth by force in a decisive strike. If the Created have that much issue with force projection, it should be a relatively feasible approach.

[stoic hamlet]

You should when they’re supposed to be still kicking in any major capacity.

Which is where the issue really arises.

The UNSC are now the weakest faction in the setting…how are they even still really effective? How can they fully operate?

The issue I have, I suppose, isn’t necessarily that the Created control Sol, I guess it’s more that we just don’t know anything. It’s been almost a decade since the Created came into being (out of universe) and arguably the most important system of humanity is so nebulous right now post Created it just feels odd.

I definitely agree it shouldn’t be easy. But I feel we should have at least heard about some effort, some plan, something, lol.

[empty bloom]

Oh, believe me, I'm incredibly frustrated by it.

Half of my logic on this is literally what I know the Created should, as a faction, be capable of. It's a legion of damn Smart AI, they should be smart enough to take over naval control even if the Guardians are your primary force, control communications, build that gilded cage that they were promising. They were already capable of so much due to automated agriculture and industry that it was practically just adding insult to injury to add the Guardians into the mix.

Cortana had a full unimpeded year to get at least the groundwork set up.

As for the UNSC side of the deal-well, same problem. There's a lot of ground problems that aren't really solved right now or explained. We know the UNSC does fight back, to the point of actually having effective raids on Earth itself on rare opportunities.

But that's all, y'know, Armor lore.

Not books, not comics, not shows, not games. It's one sentence blips explaining why the Whizzy Fizzbang helmet does its thing.

[stoic hamlet]

sigh, yup.

I’m hopeful, at least.

Also, unrelated, long time no see. @empty bloom

[empty bloom]

Yeh, long time. Like your armor posts on the sub, btw.

[stoic hamlet]

Thank you! Just posted my mark v one the other day.

My little “B-Net” post actually had a fanon blurb on how it might feel to get a Created AI perspective. Though it wasn’t anything especially detailed.

[empty bloom]

I've been toiling away at armor related projects of my own from a fanon perspective.

Mostly just connecting dots between manufacturers and equipment capabilities of MJOLNIR.

Working towards making it into a sort of Halo Technical Readout in the flavor of Battletech's own TROs.

[stoic hamlet]

Always good to do! I know Halopedia has a few trying to connect the dots.

[empty bloom]

Like my crackpot theory about how Buccaneer was actually a false flag op armor made by RKD Group due to Linebreaker's description.

[stoic hamlet]

Oh?

How do you figure?

[empty bloom]

So RKD Group produced the Legionnaire line of GEN2 MJOLNIR that was notable for being an open-use 'public domain' MJOLNIR variant that was relatively widely distributed and, as per description, was effectively a ruinously impossible-to-control spread of MJOLNIR tech data.

Buccaneer likely came about due to that spread of information due to its nature as a garage-built MJOLNIR variant with the helmet's systems in particular being built with off the shelf components.

Linebreaker's an RKD-group made helmet with its biggest selling point being, as Buccaneer states, off the shelf components.

So this presents a few options for the crazy theory;

• RKD Group learned from forensics on the Buccaneer prototype and managed to build an armor variant off that knowledge.
• RKD Group had a shell company or paid off a frontier startup to make Buccaneer on the downlow, testing its effectiveness as a concept under other markets.
• RKD Group made a profit selling the concept to a less reputable company, in exchange for that company testbedding off-the-shelf MJOLNIR manufacture.

We know that corporate interests are still alive-and-well in the UNSC post 2552, and RKD Group has been snubbed before by MJOLNIR (Hayabusa). It could also be some ill-advised payback.

Also, there's some similar design notes between the two even with Buccaneer being a funny EVA-lookalike.

They have similar 'headphones', with many greebles not matching shape but matching positions.

[orchid kettle]

Having a battle to reclaim Earth does sound like something that should at least be explored in a book or even comic instead of being handwaved entirely

[empty bloom]

BTW just got Outcasts finally

[orchid kettle]

Bad Blood so far feels like the only story set during Cortana's reign that's actually about the Created

while the other books feel like they're just about the characters trying to get the plot done before Mama Cortana notices them

[empty bloom]

TBH, I did actually like that element of Shadows of Reach.

[orchid kettle]

Its neat in theory, that every mission you go on has an invisible timer to being blasted from orbit by a Guardian

though, have the characters escape before a Guardian can do anything too many times, and you'll start to raise an eyebrow

[empty bloom]

That's only happened... Once. The other times it kinda died.

Or was it twice now?

[orchid kettle]

They escape in Bad Blood, though I forget if in Shadows of Reach if they even mentioned that they caught Cortana's attention

[empty bloom]

Guardian shows up right at the end right when everyone leaves.

[stoic hamlet]

They did, a Guardian appears at the end.

[orchid kettle]

then yeah, twice so far

I do hope the Created do have a couple of worlds to themselves in a post-Zeta Halo universe

and Sloan gets his hands on more Executors

Im really hooked on the idea of some characters trying to evade capture by an Executor

[dusty ferry]

Honestly, he can keep the one given it respawns

[orchid kettle]

"Executor" is just a synonym of Terminator, after all

[dusty ferry]

Something constantly coming back an d learning from its experience is cool

[empty bloom]

Some sort of fancy optimized Created Stanchion blowing some random Spartan in half when?

Wait, no, it'll just be a no-named IV.

Nevermind.

[orchid kettle]

I like the idea of Executors kinda being the scalpel to the Guardian's sledgehammer

[empty bloom]

There's a lot of things Executors would kind of be scalpels to.

[orchid kettle]

Tick off the ruling AI enough, and instead of Promethean Soldiers, they send actual evil Spartans

unlike the concept of banished spartans people seem so attached to

[empty bloom]

Would that be the Created equivelant of killing the little brother enough in a video game that he actually brings his older brother to the controller to beat you?

Complete with the Soldiers talking trash?

[dusty ferry]

It’s honestly boring.

[empty bloom]

It's nonsense, to me.

[dusty ferry]

Why do edgy people still exist

[empty bloom]

I blame Emile.

[dusty ferry]

Emile has been dead for like 12 years by this point

[empty bloom]

Who, ironically, would likely be one of the first people in line to introduce a Banished Spartan to their own beating heart.

[dusty ferry]

Why do we still think about him?

[empty bloom]

Considering how much Emile hates insurrectionists for harming humanity's odds at surviving the Covvies.

[empty bloom]

Gotta remember Reach.

Can't forget because everyone else will just remind you.

[dusty ferry]

Noble served the purpose of being people we kind of knew but not enough to sell how messed up war is or something

[empty bloom]

Even though in-universe considering post HCW politics I could see it becoming something of a dogwhistle for Sapien Sunrise and similar orgs

[empty bloom]

BTW @stoic hamlet thoughts on the viability of my theory above?

[stoic hamlet]

Hmmm, it’s certainly possible.

I could see it.

It’s hard to say though, necessarily. “Off-The-Shelf” after all mostly refers to the idea of non-military components and tech.

So it’s possible they made buccaneer as a false flag, but I think it’d more likely it was just built to as close to spec as someone could manage.

[mental harbor]

I'm really enjoying Outcasts

Almost finished

[gilded mason]

This is the wrong chat to discuss book spoilers. Go here: #1138515187490627695

[lusty halo]

Oh whoops I gotchu

[onyx flax]

Just wondered, what would the UNSC's view on mental health and neurodiversties be? Seeing as it's 500 years in the future.
Would anyone be able to be recuited regardless of their abilities?
Additionally could some even be recruited into Spartans?

[stoic hamlet]

The II’s and III’s were looking for very specific genetic and age criteria, alongside academic skills. They were 1 in a billion, maybe one in half a billion for the III’s.

Alongside the genetics, ages, and academics, they had plenty of physical trials, all of which they had to excel at.

Then there’s also the social aspect. As Kurt notes in Ghosts of Onyx, if they couldn’t work as a team they weren’t selected.

Basically….it’s possible, but unlikely.

The same is true of the IV’s but there’s a better shot there. But then that’s true regardless of who you are.

[last anchor]

Edgy Spartans existed as far back as Halo 3. RvB introduced The Meta and it went from there

I also remember hearing about Traitor Spartans in various fanworks

Yes, the idea of a human within the Covenant was NOT ground broken by the TV show

[last anchor]

Vale is neurodivergent. That much is obvious

[gentle burrow]

Because edgy is part of the fun of some things, you can take an excellent look at anti-hero’s throughout the comic books series, or some other gaming platforms like metal gear, or even resident evil, edgy things can be entertaining for story telling

But that’s an argument for fantasy vs reality, fantasy drama is fun and reality drama is boring

However boring things that we like to see that can be comforting is considered boring and monotonous in fantasy

I don’t want to see my family murdered as it’s drive me into a dark depression, but when it happens to characters in fiction, it gives them a drive to want us to see them succeed, even if you don’t agree with it

[last anchor]

40k exists lol

[gentle burrow]

I know nothing of 40k I’m sorry qwq

Well, I know tads

[gilded mason]

Good, it's for the best, lmao

[gentle burrow]

Lmfao, I’ve told it’s convoluted in a lot of things, and I already have a friend who’s well versed in it for those kinds of discussions

[last anchor]

Its edgy incarnate

[gentle burrow]

Back back to topic, Emile as a Spartan is one we want to see drive a knife into the covenants neck due to the way his fireteam has been slaughtered throughout reach, and why he wants noble to get off the planet, being the newest and final surviving member, it’s a self sacrifice that we see in an edgy character that revels in his ideology but also the hatred he has for his fireteam being taken from him, they were family, and anyone would succumb to it in moments and fits of rage like that

[onyx flax]

How so?

[gentle burrow]

Ah! I made a mistake, a word, whoops

Anyway, my point is, edgy can be good and bad, too much is too often seen in fan fictions, all the edge and not enough of the redeeming quality/potential to change for the better

Too little and we have a blank character that has no emotion or reaction to anything

Oh, I’m also sorry for the wall, I like discussing things

If I sound it out it makes me feel more complete in an topic

[gentle burrow]

I am not completely against the idea although it’s hard for me to make it seem realistically practical for a Spartan to defect like this to the banished

[last anchor]

She learned a language most humans have a massive difficulty learning (let alone speaking) wrll enough she can converse with Sangheili naturally. She did this in six months, from nothing but intercepted transmissions if I remember right

[gentle burrow]

She knows what Wort means

[onyx flax]

Ah I see, yeah I guess that could make sense

Would love to see more character with mental traits not just physical

[gentle burrow]

More character is always fun!

Well, most of the time

Honestly I just kind of want more and more and more banished lore, I really really loved rubicon protocol and I want more of it

[last anchor]

The Banished really do need more fleshing out still

[gentle burrow]

Oh I totally agree, I think what we have is good but it just wants me needing more

And more Lucas browning

And horvath

And kovan, and just

I wanna know!!

[last anchor]

Same

Cursed cliffhangers

[gentle burrow]

Honestly I think that, what we got in the game and the book that considers is pretty good!

I also want a little more Makovich and Vettel and just, more, more and more

[onyx flax]

Yeah, it's bad when franchises bring in characters then they outright cease to exist

[gentle burrow]

I can agree and disagree! Like having people die outright can be captivating, and motivating to characters developments

Without much spoilers, I’ll talk about another franchise that does it well

The last of us does a great job of introducing us to characters, killing them, and then even starting the game

[onyx flax]

Of course, but at least we can know that character well enough in the instant, or get to know them over time

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, I get that people had their interest peaked when they learned that the Banished had SOME humans in their ranks. But the Banished, at the end of the day, are just raiders, salvagers, and mercs.

In other words, they're driven more or less by selfish desires

[gentle burrow]

Got pinged somewhere else, give me a second to read!~ 💜

[orchid kettle]

and Spartans just aren't like that.

[gentle burrow]

That I agree with, but it makes it “compelling” for more stories

[orchid kettle]

Even the Innie Spartans believe with all their heart that the rebels' cause is one worth championing

They think their actions will lead to a better world, I assume at least

[gentle burrow]

I totally agree with you, but even you have to admit it would be pretty cool to see a banished Spartan, corroded in armor with banished scraps and UNSC tech would be really really interesting, the only real flaw I can see with your argument, is that if we were talking about Spartan II’s and III’s there would be 0 doubt in my mind that they would EVER defect from the UNSC

It’s another matter entirely for Spartan fours, especially from halo four’s era of Spartans

[onyx flax]

Sounds like innie support 😑

[onyx flax]

You mean like the Rakshasa armour?

[gentle burrow]

Fireteam majestic does a fantastic job of making us hate them, all except for.. the newest member who I can’t recall off the top of my head, but even Spartan Palmer throws a petty fit about losing a target instead of reassessing the situation and finding another opening

[onyx flax]

Ray?

[gentle burrow]

Exactly! But more banished-y

[gentle burrow]

Maybe? I can’t really remember Spartan ops characters

[onyx flax]

Demarco +
Madsen
Hoya
Grant
Thorne
Ray

[gentle burrow]

Ahh that’s right

D and M literally boast about themselves and “protecting” some colony personal

Hoya has no regard for the chain of command in the pursuit of glory which almost gets him killed

[onyx flax]

Just a little community outreach 😄

[orchid kettle]

Soren-066 actually does buy the Innie rhetoric

Though he was also in a pretty dark place in his life

[gentle burrow]

You’ll have to remind me, my brain is a little foggy, Soren was one of the original Spartan twos right?

[onyx flax]

True that

[orchid kettle]

Yes

Funny enough, the other II he fights in that short story, Randall

is the former II from Nightfall

who somehow left the UNSC, got his augs removed, and is chilling on an outer colony world

Dude doesn't seem like an outright rebel, but he doesn't seem to be super pro UNSC either

[gentle burrow]

Spartans fighting one another makes me excited, which is why halo five makes me so disappointed, great concept, bad execution, but anyway, I remember this vaguely, I need to re-read some of the series to reaffirm my standing on a lot of the lore and where we are at

[onyx flax]

So pretty much how he is in the TV series?

[gentle burrow]

I shudder at the thought

[orchid kettle]

But yeah-- my thinking is that Spartans of any generation are very principled people. They fight for what they think is right with all they have.

Its just sometimes, you have those rare moments where the Spartan doesn't believe in the UNSC anymore, so they change sides.

[onyx flax]

Definition of Lawful Neutral

[gentle burrow]

I think you’re correct in the terms of Spartan two’s and threes, however with some exceptions in Spartan fours it’s just.. ugh..

[orchid kettle]

But that side change is still motivated by like, "noble" reasons

Like, even in the case of the IVs

Scruggs and Mickey appear to believe in their cause

[onyx flax]

Though I'd love to see the more darker side of the missions Spartans have to undertake, kinda like kilo 5

[orchid kettle]

even if they go about it in the wrong way

They're not like, being paid by anybody to be evil

[gentle burrow]

I think logistics of a Spartan four banished operative would be imperative for an entire book alone to get it right

Do I think it’s possible? Under the right circumstances sure, it’s it likely? Probably not

[orchid kettle]

Youd have to put in a lot of leg work to explain why the Spartan needs money so bad

[gentle burrow]

Well, maybe we could kill two birds with one stone

[onyx flax]

To buy bundles in the store

[gentle burrow]

Flesh the endless out a little more, they drove Lucas browning to madness

Maybe it wouldn’t be money that drives the Spartan, but an unconscious gnawing at the back of their mind

Like a logic plague imbedded into humans, that’s kinda neat!

[unique rune]

Replaying Infinite’s campaign just made me annoyed that they bothered to introduce the Endless at all

Like I feel like the whole thing with the Banished trying to claim the ring and beat humanity would’ve been enough on its own but they had to have some ancient unknown mystery threat to tease and now it just feels like a cliffhanger that’s going to either never be followed up on or be concluded in an incredibly unsatisfying manner

[gentle burrow]

I feel like the endless are the title of a clickbait video

“PATROLLING THE RING” (THE HARBINGER IS ENDLESS?!)(GONE WRONG)

What I hate so much about some of 343’s games are the ideas being half baked, I think the ideas are solid but needing to be fleshed out! I think the potential that every game has to be great is there, it just needs a little push

I feel like if Jega was a reoccurring enemy it would be more impactful in the end

I wish that esherum pulled a Blisk and showed up when chief was thrown out the void, but also seen more and more in the game as we progress when he’s actually doing something

I wish we got to see the corruption of a marine or even the end to Lucas browning when she breaks his mind from merely speaking, to show how much of a threat she really is

however

I feel like all of these problems can be solved with a “on the ring DLC”

But that’s probably not happening for a while..

[empty bloom]

Ew.

Just, all of that "There should be Banished Spartans" talk... Ew.

[empty bloom]

You don't seem to understand IVs very much. That's fine, not many Halo fans really do.

They're pointedly chosen and trained explicitly by Spartan IIs and IIIs and are, for the most part, 'true believers' of the UNSC Cause-at least on paper. Any traitor that's existed for the cause performed their negative actions in the interest of humanity as a whole.

Fighting for the Banished, well, that's not really helping humanity unless they were ordered to do it, such as with the Ferret Team.

[carmine sleet]

It's easily the one thing I don't want to see in the games. And while we technically have had it thanks to the books, the Ferrets were on an undercover op and have since returned to actively fighting on the side of the UNSC

[empty bloom]

Anyone who says they want a Banished Spartan is either a trend chaser or actively refuses to understand basic information about what a Spartan of any gen is.

Innie Spartans are relatively more likely, but that's mostly because the precedent has been established that the Spartans who went down that path did so due to being genocidal towards Ex-Covenant Species or thinking Spartans shouldn't be used to put down human dissidents.

[last anchor]

Most of them tend to be younger fans

[empty bloom]

I've seen a few older ones, but they were the type who made cringe OC's anyways.

[last anchor]

Only actual one I've seen was an OC made using Eaglestrike, and upon a curious and honestly low level examination they collapsed

[empty bloom]

What a shocker that is :P

[last anchor]

This was on Tumblr as well so take THAT as you will

[gentle burrow]

Whoa whoa whoa, I never said that they should be, I said it would be interesting m

[carmine sleet]

It'd also just be weird if during a campaign you were fighting Banished and then suddenly a Spartan with Banished colours came out to fight you

[last anchor]

Poor guy was new to the franchise so I don't blame him

He shall learn.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, there's not a version of that where I see any other UNSC Force even daring to let that Spartan live.

That's the sort of behavior that sees elite mercenaries paid to kill your little traitor problem thanks to ONI, or sees a coordinated artillery strike on that Traitor's location.

There is no limit to the number of UNSC personnel that would want that traitor Ex-Spartan's head on a pike, and that's only people who are against the Banished.

In the Banished there's just as many massive blockers in the way. They didn't even give the Spartans of Zeta a chance to talk-they came in swinging.

They view Spartans as targets and sport more often than they don't (Which isn't hard, because 100% of cases regarding Spartans of any stripe that they knew were Spartans were cases of kill on sight), and most Clans we know of have a kill-upon-usefulness-expiry policy towards humanity.

So one side, the Spartan, has absolutely no reason to join, and the other side doesn't have a reason to let a Spartan attempt to join.

And the sidelines are going to be eager to kill that little PR disaster.

[gentle burrow]

We even see this in the first few chapters of rubicon protocol, they give the infinity no chance because that’s what happened to them and their home world, why should humanity be given the chance when they were the ones responsible for not only the AI’s destruction but it’s creation as well

[empty bloom]

And the fanbase who actually knows anything about Spartans will rightfully decry a canon Banished Spartan as being degenerate fanfiction, if my faith in the fanbase for once is to continue unviolated.

[gentle burrow]

It’s even stated in the book when Lucas browning is being tormented by the human doctor that’s standing there with a bunch of jackals that he “must’ve been high in the banished hierarchy” from keeping him from being torn to shreds

I only really think that a banished Spartan could happen as if one of them were to be included in the banished and even then it falls apart because of augmentation, and the CONSTANT augmentation the Spartan fours need to be kept up in, not even to mention their armor breaking more often then I think we’ve seen. It in a vacuum is an interesting idea, but the execution needs a lot of extra work to even implement

[empty bloom]

Proving the point I made earlier about not knowing much about IVs.

[last anchor]

Stolen Gauntlet Protocol

[gentle burrow]

I personally don’t like them so, I don’t really care to know much more then what the game provides me through majestic

[empty bloom]

Then don't pretend you know anything about them.

[gentle burrow]

However rubicon was a change of pace I enjoy

[carmine sleet]

There's also the fact that there is a literal unit within the Banished dedicated to killing Spartans thanks to Escherum. Sure they are defeated by Chief, but you don't make an organisation dedicated to wiping out a specific type of soldier if you're going to be recruiting those soldiers

[empty bloom]

There was more than just the ones you see tbf.

[carmine sleet]

True

And I do hope we see the other members of that group

[last anchor]

There's bound to be more on Zeta

[carmine sleet]

Like, give me the Skirmisher Spartan Killer, I need to know what they're like

[last anchor]

Cheifs gonna have to fight Escharums 7 evil ex boyfriend's like Scott Pilgrim

[carmine sleet]

There better be a joke about the colour of The Weapon's hair that works better in black and white

[empty bloom]

Anyways, IVs don't need invasive or long term aug maintenance any more than IIs and IIIs do (At least IIs and IIIGs actually do still need aug maintenance of one form or another, as seen by info blurbs in Halo 4 and MCC as well as general knowledge about the brain augs of III Gammas). The Recruit GEN2 armor is meant as a temporary armor until the IV's body finishes acclimating to combat stress with the new augs, and then they don normal MJOLNIR variants.

Some IVs choose to continue wearing Recruit after that period but it's mostly a personal choice.

[carmine sleet]

And honestly, I don't blame them, Recruit is a nice looking set

Would love to see it properly return in Infinite

[empty bloom]

As for their armor, GEN3 MJOLNIR actually has better longevity showings than literally any other form of armor ever shown in Halo. Chief's GEN1 Mark V was breaking down after a few weeks. Blue Team's GEN1 Mark VI was breaking down after a similar period.

IVs managed to stretch their GEN3 Mark VII through what was basically their Vietnam or Reach over the course of six months of continuous guerilla warfare with absolutely no ability to resupply from corpses or otherwise.

[empty bloom]

It's alright. I'd love for GEN2 to show back up with a more 'lived-in' look, with more dinged up paint jobs and the odd panoply of pouches or plate reinforcements without sacrificing any aspect of their original visual look.

[carmine sleet]

I'd be fine with that. I just miss a bunch of the looks from Halo 4 and hope they do a Gen 2 core or something for Infinite to bring them back

[empty bloom]

(We also don't know jack about how durable GEN2 is actually supposed to be in terms of damage endurance. It's far too variable a platform for the 2022 Encyclopedia's blanket statement about its relatively weak durability rating to hold water.)

[carmine sleet]

Like, I have no issue with the Gen 3 Soldier design, but I do miss the Gen 2 look, even with it being one of the designs from Halo 4 I was meh on

[empty bloom]

I actually really hate GEN3 Soldier and Deadeye.

Soldier moreso because it's got that stupid (|o) face.

It's like it's constantly pogging.

[carmine sleet]

Fair, Gen 3 Soldier is also a meh for me. Do miss the Gen 2 Deadeye design, it definitely looked better there

[empty bloom]

It had some really sleek and pretty curves.

It was, well, a pretty armor.

[carmine sleet]

It's interesting looking at the HO design and the Infinite design compared to the Halo 4/5 design

[unique rune]

Soldier GEN3 annoys me so much because they had alternate concepts that nailed it far better

[carmine sleet]

Because they basically nailed it first time and then the two other versions just aren't as nice

[empty bloom]

I don't really like the Halo Online variation either.

[carmine sleet]

Aye, but I think I prefer it over the Infinite design

With the H4 version being the best Deadeye helmet

[empty bloom]

Silly crosshair visor.

I mean the other ones also had a vaguely crosshair shaped visor but still.

[unique rune]

I’m still disappointed by Anubis GEN3
On its own it’s a decent helmet but I think it misses the mark hard as a rework of H5’s Anubis

[empty bloom]

Is there any GEN3 helm variant that doesn't miss the mark by at least a little?

Maybe Aviator?

Or Talon?

[carmine sleet]

Anubis Gen 3 needed to retain more of the curves of the Gen 2 version

I love the Mark VII helmet

[empty bloom]

Trailblazer nails it hard, I'll give it up for Trailblazer.

[unique rune]

Celox/Scout turned out pretty well I think

[empty bloom]

Celox too.

[carmine sleet]

To be fair, Celox was based on Gen 2 Scout and that was the best looking Scout helmet for a long time

[empty bloom]

It isn't hard to beat a literal pistachio.

[carmine sleet]

I'd argue the Reach Scout is worse than Halo 3's

[unique rune]

War Master GEN3 isn’t bad either
I think simplifying the weirdly organic shapes of the GEN2 visor was a good move

[gentle burrow]

I have a wall of text, but I'll let this convo finish before then

[gentle burrow]

I don't have anything against you or the spartan fours, I'm sorry if It ever comes off that way! Majestic left a stain on me and kind of turned me off from some halo books, I have a lot of reading to do so this comes up as my own opinion

[carmine sleet]

Trendlock's a pretty good design from Infinite, feels like it could've easily have been on the Reach core with how it looks

[unique rune]

It kinda reminds me of the JFO helmet except squashed vertically a little

[carmine sleet]

And Menachite as well, it's a nice alternative take on the Mark V/VI style helmets

Granted, it's no Mark V Delta

[gentle burrow]

I only really have a problem with Carrion and Torchbearer, they just look odd to me

Menachite its a good helmet design and honestly probably one of the better looking helmets in all of Mark VII

[carmine sleet]

Which one is Carrion again?

[gentle burrow]

The skull, one of the first infection helmets

It had the massive shoulder plates

I just think it's a TAD bit too wide

[carmine sleet]

Oh! Cambion on the Rakshasa core?

[unique rune]

https://www.halopedia.org/CAMBION-class_Mjolnir

[gentle burrow]

Nonono

[dusty ferry]

I think they meant Talon

[unique rune]

…Courier?

https://www.halopedia.org/COURIER-class_Mjolnir

[empty bloom]

It's fine. I just don't like how much misinfo about Spartan IVs gets spread by people not really doing any research on them before they talk about their issues. A lot is easy to correct, but people don't really get across details that are important-it's easier to trash the new than fail to get that some of these issues were worse or at least present like a bad smell for earlier gens.

I like Courier.

[unique rune]

I think the Courier helmet is funny because it reminds of latterday Bionicle or even Hero Factory masks/helmets

[gentle burrow]

No

[gentle burrow]

yes!

There;s a lot of skulls

I personally like Warmaster

[carmine sleet]

War Master is definitely one that in both iterations is still a great design

Though a bit too edgy for me

[gentle burrow]

I don't disagree!

[gentle burrow]

I just think it's a liiiiiittle too wide, if it was a little more narrow I think it would be better! The vents just make it looks too big

[carmine sleet]

Also, can I just say I love the Mark VI CBRN from the Hazmat armour? Like, from a design perspective it feels like a perfect hybrid of Mjolnir and a Hazmat suit and the lore of it being a test bed for the OSTEO CES is real neat to me

[gentle burrow]

I definitely feel like more cores should have this kind of style for production, it was first helmet anyway, and to see more hybrids like it are really really neat!

[unique rune]

It feels weird that only two cores have some version of the Mk.VI helmet accessible to players and one of them is a super specialized variant of it

[gentle burrow]

Menachite comes pretty close to one as well, I think that'd count as 3!

[carmine sleet]

Aye, I am surprised that there wasn't a version of Mark VI for the Mark VII

[carmine sleet]

I'd argue it's a closer to Mark V

[gentle burrow]

You're fair in your assement

[unique rune]

Menachite is more like a reinterpretation of Mk.V

Though oddly Mk.VII has an iteration of Mk.VI shoulders.

…and the Mk.VI MOD shoulders.

[gentle burrow]

Assessment* Woop

[gentle burrow]

we love this game so much don't we 🙃

[carmine sleet]

Ok but like, I love that the Mark VI MOD got some love in Infinite in the form of those shoulders

I was so worried they'd never show anything of that armour ever again and when I saw those shoulders I was so happy

[unique rune]

Oh yeah I’m glad to have them but it feels like such a weird choice to add just the shoulders and only on Mk.VII.

[carmine sleet]

Fair

Maybe we'll see more components of it appear in the future?

[gentle burrow]

I want to remove more of my armor, I feeel like it's wrong to want that, but I am also just strange that way

[unique rune]

Maybe
Long-term I’m still really hoping for a GEN2 core

But for now I’m okay sticking with Mirage IIC anyway

[gentle burrow]

Kneepads? Who needs them?!

[carmine sleet]

As for the version of the Mark VI Gen 1 shoulder armour we got, I honestly really like the redesign and prefer it over the previous designs for those shoulders

[gentle burrow]

Could you provide a screenshot for what you are talking of?

[unique rune]

Yeah, I think they’re a lot nicer than the weird Mk.VI GEN2 shoulders
Those almost look like… inflatables

[carmine sleet]

I love it so much

[gentle burrow]

Ohhhh right!

I thought, my brain

A little smooth today, I was thinking of the Gen 2 armor from halo four and five they re-did in halo infinite, the UA/AHALA variant

God my spelling today is not there

[carmine sleet]

It happens

But I have both the UA/AHALA and the Mark VI Gen 1 on my Mark VII in Infinite right now because I love them both so much

[gentle burrow]

I don't think they look bad! I've always liked making spartans a little sleeker, my favorite weapon being the s7 so whoopdeedoo

I was actually really surprised that the Holo loadout got a soft comeback

It was my favorite equipment type in halo reach

[warm ridge]

I find it funny how over the years of more people replaying Infinite's campaign or rethinking it's events, more and more people have begun to dislike it as much as I did when it came out. The entire thing just feels rushed af, almost like they were throwing things at the wall and whatever stuck stayed.
The actual books that have came out later almost feel like the story they wanted to tell (Rubicon Protol, Shadows of Reach, Halo: Outcasts) vs the story that came with Infinite.

[warm ridge]

I don't think we're ever getting DLC, especially not this late into the games life. Halo Infinite is going to be 2 years old, and next year it'll be 3. 3 years used to be the average time we got between each mainline Halo title, and if we aren't being marketed a new campaign/Halo game or whatever by now, it's gonna be a while before we see well, really anything.

[gentle burrow]

I know

[warm ridge]

Mark VII isn't really a rework though, it's just an entirely new helmet. It was also added to Halo 4 as the Keystone helmet for some unknown reason.
Same helmet though.

[dusk jetty]

Firefall is probably my fav MK7 helmet. Just a great version of the classic ODST helmet

Along with it being made for atmospheric insertion without drop pods…

[stoic hamlet]

It started out as a rework, in a sense.

Naomi’s original helmet was a reworked/modified Mark V[B].

Which then evolved into the Mark VII.

At least out of universe anyways.

I guess it’s like an evolution of the Mark V [B] in a sense.

But then, that’s true of Mark VII in general.

Semi-Related I still think the Mark VII should have been called OLYMPUS

[last anchor]

Agreed.

[stoic hamlet]

Mark VI COBALT

Mark V I’m not sure on though.

But like, that simple change would fix a lot of the headache with MJOLNIR.

[safe hawk]

Certain affinity announced they’re working on an original IP so it looks like it’s going to be years before a new entry

[warm ridge]

CA's been working on that since 2017 when Leyou tech invested 10 million into the company for that exact purpose, it's whatever Project Loro is afaik
No idea what Halo project they've been working on though

[high fox]

Mark V in my opinion would be Titan not related to lore or anything just a reference to the titanic strength of the spartan II’s

Because I’m not sure if this is correct but the master chiefs original game armor core was a mark V

[stoic hamlet]

Makes more sense for the Mark IV, I think, as that was the only MJOLNIR armour first used by the II’s exclusively for a good decade. Come 2536 and the III’s (select members of Alpha Company) were using it as well.

[dusty ferry]

that would have been confusing as Mjolnir already had a cobalt variant during the Mark IV era

[stoic hamlet]

I’m saying you’d return Mark [number] to being the general variant, so all “Mark VI” looking suits no matter the Mark or GEN would be COBALT,

[dusty ferry]

yeah, but the mark system is literally already doing that

Mark IV is technically speaking unrelated from Mark I-III as those were not even related to the same original project and were lumped in as a burecratic measure

the Mark system does exactly what theoretically naming them something like cobalt does

tough they should have just called Gen 2 Mark VII and just kept the thing we call mark VII in a prototype stage until it came out as GEN 3 then renamed it Mark VIII

though generation seems to be more about general armor standards instead of what is the base design everything is a variant of

which is why we can have something like Mirage count as Gen 3 on some unknown technicality, which would be like changing the classification of fighter jets in the US military because the YF-21 failed to beat out the F-22

[pallid knoll]

are Spartan III’s still around at the time of Infinite?

[empty bloom]

Yes. Mostly the surviving III Gammas.

A small amount of III Alphas and Betas were also involved in recruiting and training Spartan IVs.

[dusty ferry]

you also have Jun (but he is probably still doing admin stuff), and Rosenda(if thats her name)

[stoic hamlet]

It is. Counted amongst @empty bloom’s list.

But to further add, as far as we know there’s roughly 330 III’s still alive.

322 Gammas.

5 Alphas.

3 Betas.

Though there could be more Alphas and Betas alive.

[pallid knoll]

how many of those are still soldiers?

[stoic hamlet]

All of them, most likely.

The lore on Gamma is hard to solidify, but even those on non-combat status are reservists, if that lore is still actually accurate.

though technically none of them

[surreal bay]

There's at least one other Beta who Kurt wanted pulled for a safer role during the op but we don't know what happened to the guy

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, but odds are B170 wasn’t pulled as Kurt (almost definitely Deep Winter) couldn’t remove Lucy.

[surreal bay]

I hope he was, he's got a cool tag

[stoic hamlet]

*They

We don’t know their gender.

Literally just the tag, lol.

[surreal bay]

Whoops.

Isn't it possible that there's still Spartan Ones around? I forgot who the one that served with Johnson at Harvest was, and I also forgot whether or not he died.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s possible.

Bryne as far as we know is still alive, and it’s possible the remaining 3 members of Johnson’s team were also still alive come the end of the war.

But 27 years of war? It’s hard to say.

[surreal bay]

I mean, there were some pretty insane UNSC Personnel that weren't even augmented, like Marvin Mobuto.

RIP Champ.

[gusty star]

Byrne was confirmed to be KIA during the Battle of Earth

[stoic hamlet]

Ah yeah, from Catalog.

[surreal bay]

Damn. 😭

[abstract wren]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-vis-a-vale

[carmine sleet]

Oh

That bit about Vale's dad

That's really cool

[orchid kettle]

I feel like it's a bit misleading to say that Outcasts is about Vale's emotional state

At the very least, we've had a trilogy of books about a protag with daddy issues, and I don't really feel like Outcasts is on that same level of interest in the character's emotional hangups.

[abstract wren]

Wakeford being misleading... impossible

[orchid kettle]

The funny thing is, that summary of Vale finding out the truth

Is more or less lifted from the book word for word

That was as much attention as Outcasts wanted to pay to that idea

I remember before the book came out, people were saying "At last, the truth behind Vale is revealed!"

and its just like, a cute piece of trivia on her wiki page

Like, I dunno, is anyone's perspective on Vale wildly different now that you know her dad was that kid mentioned in Halsey's Journal back in 2010

[stoic hamlet]

It’s pretty much just a “neat” kinda thing…but that’s it.

Interesting but not really “interesting”.

[orchid kettle]

It's a very interesting contrast Halo has going on with its two mainstay writers

[stoic hamlet]

How do you mean?

[orchid kettle]

Kelly Gay clearly puts a lot of thought and attention into a character's emotional journey. Why they are the way they are.

While Denning I think is more plot driven. He likes tactics, deception, things of that nature.

That's not to say that Kelly can't write a battle or that Denning doesn't include emotional elements

But I dunno, it feels like Denning only understands that stories tend to feature characters evolving emotionally, on like a surface level. He's aware that it's an element that's frequently used in story telling.

But doesn't seem to place a lot of focus on emotion.

Like, to this day, I'll always think of how wild it is that Veta Lopiz has... the backstory that she does

[stoic hamlet]

You’d think that would come up more, really.

[orchid kettle]

But Last Light isn't really interested in commenting on trauma and how we process it.

Nor are any of the future Veta books.

[hot ravine]

This is why the specific wording of "explores more of Vale’s thoughts and feelings" is used, we don't state that this is what the book is about lol

[orchid kettle]

[stoic hamlet]

It leaves the door open for later exploration in the future.

Whether we get that exploration is a mystery to us all…. except you, you probably know, lol

But whether we do or not, someone could use it later on.

[orchid kettle]

Outcasts 2, Osiris reunites and Thorne appears as their fourth

👌

[carmine sleet]

I'd definitely like to see further exploration

[drowsy mesa]

Hope we learn anything about Locke, Tanaka, and Buck post-Bad Blood

[orchid kettle]

Id be pretty on board for Adventures With Alpha-Nine 3

though Id also be scared a lil since New Blood and Bad Blood saw the team change a lot

Granted you could argue that those changes mainly happened because of Halo 5, and later, the reception to Halo 5

Though god knows Gretchen needs some extra development

[obsidian thistle]

More Tanaka stuff will never hurt. Shes unfortunately the last member of Osiris to be in a place where we know so little and have little EU on her.

[pallid knoll]

when I played Halo 5, I felt like Tanaka was the one character without any story behind them

Vale had something to do with Sanghilis, Locke was the leader/player character, and Buck had already been established in ODST

[empty bloom]

It's so absolutely different that I'm going to write about it in my Myspace blog.

[empty bloom]

#1 Tanaka Fanboy chiming in; I would make a blood sacrifice for this.

[spare kite]

Honestly not really. Its such an obscure piece of lore and Vale on her own is already such a built up character that to me it didnt change anything. That being said if 343 wants to give her psychic powers im all for it.

[last anchor]

Newtypes sound fun

[terse rampart]

I know it was kind of a joke but I can't help but imagine how dimkee hotay met the gravemind on two separate occasions and lived to tell the tale

[obsidian thistle]

She had two issues in Escalation. 🙂 Which were alright. Not really groundbreaking but hey

[safe hawk]

Tanaka is the engineer from Minab

[orchid kettle]

I think, at least with Vale and Tanaka, they're supposed to like, provide information on the differing perspective of the Sangheili and rebels, respectively

Which is a good idea in theory, but I feel like in the context of 5, their status as exposition machines ends up superseding their status as actual characters

Like, the only scene that feels like its about the characters is that one where Buck and Locke are talking about the mission to capture Chief, and how they feeeeel about it

though, obviously Buck has the benefit of being an established, fan favorite character, while the other members of Osiris are really the ones who need some 1 on 1 time to discuss their feelings

[stoic hamlet]

Halo 5 just has a bit too much going on with not enough time to breathe.

But that’s true of Halo in general, unfortunately.

[orchid kettle]

I dunno, I feel like because the earlier games didn't really have that much ambition in the story department, they had a good amount of time to do what they wanted

Like I'll always say that Halo CE is a pretty good roller coaster experience. Sure, the characters aren't super deep or anything, but you can tell that they're not supposed to be.

Even in Halo 4, that DOES have grander ambitions

it seems like the Cortana plotline is easily the most beloved, and that's probably because there was plenty of time for Chief and Cortana to talk about things.

5 definitely has the issue of being a really short campaign, while also trying to introduce and reintroduce a ton of characters

as well as shift the universe into a brand new status quo

[stoic hamlet]

That it jumps between characters doesn’t help either.

[pallid knoll]

when did that happen?

[gilded mason]

About 5 months before Halo 5 came out.

[stoic hamlet]

You can definitely make characters compelling in a short amount of time (look at the antagonists of the new Ahsoka show after all, they’ve only had maybe 5 mins of screen time total but they’re the most compelling characters in the show thus far - but that’s because their scenes are incredibly well shot and their characters convey so much without even really speaking.)

Halo 5….doesn’t do that.

[empty bloom]

She's covered in Escalation and she also talks about herself some in 5 proper.

[empty bloom]

I feel like a less actiony opening would've captured Osiris better, even if I enjoy it. Maybe a scene of Tanaka fitting a jumpjet port to a set of HUNTER before the mission or something, while Locke's armoring up.

Like, spend a nice few minutes at some point in the campaign of Osiris between missions gearing up or talking.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. Even Blue Team don’t have enough.

Like, if there was ever a time for the hand signals and etc from the books, it’s that game, lol.

That’s part of what made the II’s (and III’s) so interesting in the early novels, is that despite looking nigh identical they were able to convey thoughts and emotions via gesture rather than facial expression. They were described as machine like, so those bits of “illogical” motion carried far more weight.

Less is more, as they say,

[empty bloom]

Silent and slick really doesn't translate well to a visual, and audial medium with the dual needs of feedback and verbal conveyance.

It's a good thought, but the actual requirements of the medium requires less subtle ways of getting points across.

[stoic hamlet]

Many shows and movies have managed to do plenty despite having silent (or near silent) protagonists and even antagonists.

Glances, body language, character framing are all ways of getting a point across.

[orchid kettle]

Blue Team's intro in the Pelican isn't too bad. Chief is sad, Fred expresses concern, Kelly tells him to shut up

Linda is there

Though honestly, I know Blue Team doesnt have a TON of characterization to begin with

But Im pretty sure Fred and Kelly's roles here should be reversed

always got the sense that Kelly was the more emotionally conscious one

[empty bloom]

But a video game isn't a silent movie. And many still 'cheated' by way of text cards.

[stoic hamlet]

I didn’t say silent movie, lol

[empty bloom]

Ah. I saw silent. My bad.

Still. There's differences between those movies and 5. And 5's plot is, well, not to sound like a snob, but complex enough that I don't think Blue being mostly silent would've been that much of a help in gameplay or otherwise.

[orchid kettle]

my man is being DENIED today

[safe hawk]

Through out in game dialogue

[empty bloom]

You don't really learn much about Blue team in 5, to be fair, but making them operate like silent killers would not help that beyond visual appeal.

[pallid knoll]

how far into the game was it?

[stoic hamlet]

Nah you’re good.

[empty bloom]

From the first mission you see her. She talks more about it on Meridian specifically.

[safe hawk]

She talks about her knowledge on banchees on alliance

[stoic hamlet]

Oh no, H5’s plot is a mess, and even if everyone was characterized perfectly it would still suffer by proxy.

It’s just you can convey a lot of things are framed well, and etc.

[empty bloom]

Tanaka really was the one who got done dirty lorewise on Osiris though. The least external media, the least in game attention, the least post game attention.

[safe hawk]

What made it a mess? It was straight forward.

[orchid kettle]

In game dialogue kinda has the issue of not being absorbed as well since the player is, ya know, playing the game.

[empty bloom]

Like, Locke fell far, but Tanaka never really got up.

[stoic hamlet]

You don’t need massive gestures or distinct characters or a lot of dialogue to manage that.

[orchid kettle]

I think distinct, larger than life personalities can help a lot when you don't have a ton of time

[stoic hamlet]

It was straightforward but executed poorly, is what I meant.

[empty bloom]

I feel like Halo 5's story would've been better received if it was at least a third longer.

So it had more time to get its points across.

[safe hawk]

How was it executed poorly?

[orchid kettle]

You could argue that its not realistic for you to get what somebody is like 5 minutes within meeting them, but in a movie or a lil FPS campaign, you just don't have time to slowly learn about them

[safe hawk]

5’s story needed a proper sequel

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. Give everyone more time to really explore things, characters, motivations. It had a lot to juggle in the short time there was.

[empty bloom]

Annnnd this is also one of the few times I'm actually enjoying a conversation about 5's story because it's actually thoughts about it beyond just a 'it's bad because people say it's bad'.

[empty bloom]

Both. Both is good.

[safe hawk]

Didn’t really care about infinites story

[empty bloom]

What's funny is, it didn't really hit me that it was that short until I realized most people try to beeline between levels.

[gilded mason]

Poor Jul, getting killed like an afterthought in the first ten minutes.

[empty bloom]

I take my time and scout around even on first playthroughs to absorb what's going on.

[empty bloom]

Oh, no, Jul was executed just fine, I'd say.

[safe hawk]

Lot of the walking missions gives you a lot of insight

[gilded mason]

🗡️

[safe hawk]

People tend to not realize how powerful Spartan 4s are

[stoic hamlet]

Most people know now I think. H5 was a bit egregious with it, but most of the issue with that opening level is killing off Jul in a cutscene.

As Ostral says, he was an afterthought.

[orchid kettle]

Its hard not to wonder about the supposed old draft of 5 where Osiris didnt like each other at first, and they had to learn to be a team along the way

Feels like itd be a nice contrast to the perfect family unit of Blue Team

[stoic hamlet]

Which could have been used to prove a point or something…

[orchid kettle]

actually, if I could rewrite 5, I think thats what I'd do

Osiris starts off rough, but they grow closer

[safe hawk]

I saw it a measurement on how strong there were as a unit.

[gilded mason]

Escalation was bad, but I really did love the banter Jul and Halsey had, and it felt like there was gonna be more done with that, but nope. 😔

[orchid kettle]

While Blue Team experiences the opposite, where Chief starts to push them away when they keep trying to explain to him that his hologram GF is dead and he's chasing ghosts

[safe hawk]

Much like how they had thanos play around with hulk, Thor and Loki at the beginning of endgame. It was to establish his threat level

[stoic hamlet]

See that’d be a great contrast.

[gilded mason]

I also remember even Grim groaned in dismay when Jul died, lol

[stoic hamlet]

If given the time to develop, of course.

[stoic hamlet]

The universe team and the game team are almost different entires at this point, so it’s not surprising.

The universe guys are almost constrained by the needs of the games.

[gilded mason]

Eyup, a sad state. 😔

[orchid kettle]

I do kinda wonder how Halo's narrative would unfold if it wasnt primarily a game series

At least like, after the Bungie era, Halo just becomes about the extended universe, and the games are just cute lil spin offs

I wonder if Jul Mdama even would exist then, since his faction always felt like it was mainly motivated to provide us with more aliens to shoot

Or at the very least, if he would be more clearly illustrated as just one covenant warlord out of hundreds

[carmine sleet]

I would hope a character like him would have existed if that was how things go

Like, the biggest issue I have with Jul's Covenant is that they're presented as just "The Covenant" (Obviously in expanded media released surrounding Halo 4, they are clearly not the only faction but still)

Which isn't exactly accurate

It's why I wish they were called The Storm since that establishes clearly they're not the space fairing empire we watched fall in the original trilogy

[orchid kettle]

The Storm is also just a really cool name for a faction

[gilded mason]

Ye

[carmine sleet]

It really is

[orchid kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/dmc5-devil-may-cry-virgil-bird-i-am-the-storm-that-is-approaching-gif-26221761

[carmine sleet]

Like, don't get me wrong, I am someone who loves allot of what Halo 4 brought to the table, I just think how Jul's Covenant was presented to us as a faction was not the best in setting up who they are and why they're different to the old Covenant

For example, I wish there was a follow up to Chief noting that they're more fanatical on Dawn where we Chief and Cortana accessing the Covenant Battle Net and finding out some information about them. Nothing too crazy but just the basic "They aren't the Covenant, they're something different"

[dusk jetty]

I started reading glasslands, and it frustrates me a little bit to see all the elaboration on Jul just to know Locke kills him without much effort. Feels like he could’ve been a continuous antagonist for at least a little while longer.

Jul is definitely not a protagonist, sorry

[gilded mason]

He's a protagonist sometimes

[orchid kettle]

Jul definitely feels like one of those villains where his "empire" should fall to ruin in front of his very eyes before he dies

But having it be the reverse just doesn't feel as satisfying

[carmine sleet]

Over the years, more and more I have wanted him to have fought against Arbiter

And be easily bested because Jul is known for not being the best fighter

[dusk jetty]

It didn’t feel like Jul even had much of an empire though in 4/5.

[carmine sleet]

And Arbiter ending Jul's Covenant would've been fitting

[dusk jetty]

Just like some cosplayers pretending to be the covenant

[carmine sleet]

Part of why I wish they were called "The Storm"

[orchid kettle]

I mean, he's got enough bodies to throw at the player for two games and Spartan Ops lol

it feels like he's got a sizeable faction of better warriors he's managed to swindle into working for him

[dusk jetty]

That’s very true. But seeing a world under jul occupation/rule would’ve been cool

[gilded mason]

To be fair, gameplay convention always makes that sort of thing muddy.

[dusk jetty]

Saying someone is powerful, is not the same as being shown how powerful someone is

[orchid kettle]

Jul canonically does have TWO assault carriers tho

That aint nothing to sneeze at

even if in Halo 4, you mainly see the itty bitty "light cruisers"

[dusk jetty]

I will admit, having Jul be like “I’m not the covenant” and inadvertently doing the same things the covenant does, like treating “lesser” species poorly, would’ve been a great thing to point out in 5.

Because I’m pretty sure they do treat unggoy poorly

[orchid kettle]

I think thats gonna be the Banished's thing ultimately

Atriox preaching about how racism is bad and they should welcome anybody who wants to be a murderous pirate

but there's still Unggoy "conscripts"

and when Atriox dies, Escharum turns out to not be all that welcoming to humans

[dusk jetty]

I remember reading somewhere escharum deliberately killed most of the humans in the banished with a select few remaining after atriox disappeared

[orchid kettle]

yup

Escharum didn't really live up to Atriox's ideals

[gilded mason]

Even Atriox doesn't. Considering he let all that other stuff happen without doing anything about it.

[orchid kettle]

ye

[dusk jetty]

I think atriox’s mentality maybe changed after Cortana destroyed doisac.

[orchid kettle]

it feels like that should be the ultimate folly of the Banished

[dusk jetty]

That’d be a cool little tidbit of personality for atriox

[orchid kettle]

they believed themselves better than the Covenant, but they just ended up replicating it in miniature

[gilded mason]

He was a hypocrite even before that

[orchid kettle]

Going off of this point, its interesting how in Infinite, Atriox appears to be worshipped like a god himself, almost

[dusk jetty]

Threatened/coerced other species into joining him? I would say that’s prime hypocriticism

[dusk jetty]

Another thing the banished do that just makes them like a mini covenant, their leaders are invaluable geniuses

[orchid kettle]

They have Engineers from ODST as well

and they keep them in restrictive harnesses like the Covenant as well

Apparently Banished Scarabs will eventually kill the hunter worms inside as well

because its generators are just so unstable

[dusk jetty]

I would love to see the banished expanded upon further, and I do think 343 plans to do that, given that there isn’t really another enemy to expand upon besides innies

[orchid kettle]

well there's the ENDLESS

but uh, their proper introduction is probably gonna be a game

[dusk jetty]

I think 343 has plans for them too, but I think their “origin” story maybe should’ve waited to be explained

And I don’t buy the precursor theory either, because they literally survived the halo effect, and precursor stuff…. Doesn’t do that.

[empty bloom]

Fallout New Vegas moment

[carmine sleet]

With that, I find so many people wanting there to be this grand conspiracy that led to the Endless surviving but honestly, I'm betting on it being as simple as they were lucky in that they were able to survive the Halo Array's fire

[last anchor]

They just happened to be overlooked and were lucky to survive and the Forerunners went oh hell no

[bright spear]

I mean is it possible the endless were just imprisoned in the Halos during the firings? Or maybe they were extra-galactic at the time?

[safe hawk]

The endless was brought into infinite because they wanted a 2021 version of the flood