#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 32 of 1

golden spear
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I mean Gulity Spark's line in the Ark "You are Forerunner" no longer makes sense

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Explain then, 343 Guilty Spark and the Gravemind in Halo 3

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He called Master Chief "Child of my enemy."

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And since humans were around during the time of the Forerunner Flood war in the new 343 timeline, that doesn't make any sense

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Nor does 343 Guilty Spark confusing Master Chief for the Didact make sense either

safe hawk
golden spear
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No, but explain why he called Master Chief "Child of my enemy" then instead of "My enemy'?

safe hawk
golden spear
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Explain why 343 said to Master Chief: "You Are Forerunner" then

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When the Forerunners were a seperate species

safe hawk
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Once again, these are hints. Not confirmations. So they are up for interpretation. Bungie wasn’t the best at explaining things in their games.

golden spear
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Let's also not forget Bungie's original planned ending for Halo 2, which outright confirmed it, admittedly cut endings are not canon

safe hawk
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Correct.

golden spear
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The Ark was supposed to be in Kenya as well

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Kenya, where we emerged as a species

safe hawk
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That’s great, but once again… hints.

golden spear
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You know what, let's agree to disagree on this

safe hawk
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No confirmations.

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That’s fine.

golden spear
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Since none of us are going to change each other's mind

safe hawk
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I’m not trying to change your mind; I’m simply stating what is true. Bungie did not confirm or deny.

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So it’s up for interpretation.

golden spear
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I mean I like to think that humans are descendants of Forerunners, but that's up to interpretation

safe hawk
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The viewer does not dictate what is right or wrong. The creators and the writers do.

golden spear
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Though the human-Covenant war no longer makes sense and was basically pointless in the narrative then

safe hawk
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How does it not make sense?

golden spear
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Why would humans be Reclaimers?

last anchor
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Cause the Forerunners left stuff for us

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Spark says that does he not?

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"Inheritors of all that we left beind"

unique rune
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Forerunners and humans being the same species was just one of those things

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It was never just "Frankie going rogue and ruining Bungie's grand plans"

No
This was something that a whole entire team of writers at Bungie said "yeah okay we kinda want to do this instead" and had it okayed and put into Bungie's final version of Halo 3

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Because again
Bungie's plans were constantly changing

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Now, did it entirely line up with what the main campaign writing team was saying for Halo 3?
Not really, sure
Because as I understand it they weren't in extremely tight communication and Halo 3 had to be finished up and rushed out the door as Bungie was wont to do with their games so they couldn't get everything harmonized in time

empty bloom
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I don't trust insane robots.

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Because, y'know

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They're insane robots.

scarlet quiver
dusty ferry
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All I want to know is how thematically things are different between the UNSC and the forerunners in the OT? Like either way it doesn’t really mean anything in the canon pre 343i

empty bloom
dusty ferry
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First one

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Like, how does the themes of halo 1-3 change if forerunners were human or not

empty bloom
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It really doesn't change all that much in terms of context considering the time scale and effects.

dusty ferry
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Because I don’t see anything that could change. It’s an irrelevant detail that everyone gets pissed about as a dog whistle for, “I hate the present”

empty bloom
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Grrrr modern things

dusty ferry
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Damn, we can’t be racist anymore. Freaking millennials — some guy said that to me once

scarlet quiver
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That is quite a line...
Honestly, what would people prefer, and does that affect what 343 would write? 343 has their drivers for how and what they write, but is one of those factors what their fans desire?

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To a degree of course, you cannot bring Johnson back from the dead at this point.
Maybe as an AI!

unique rune
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Because I doubt 95% of the people arguing about it care about it or have bothered to even like, read any of the source material for it? So it’s just a convenient excuse to be upset about changes 343 has nade

…Which is why so much of it ends up coming back to one side talking about how it was a change that Bungie had started anyway with Halo 3-related material

orchid kettle
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Honestly even the current storyline with the Endless feels better suited for some alternate timeline where humans were Forerunners, as then their beef would be directly with us.

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What's a shame too is that I really like the idea of Forerunners being this flawed people who almost deserved to get Flooded. Its very in keeping with the biblical allusions to Noah's Ark, where God sends the flood because Man got too smelly or whatever.

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But what I don't like is that instead of us being cast in the role of the flawed people who must learn to be better, we're positioned as the true inheritors of the universe, favored by godlike races.

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It's all very eugenicsy when you factor in the geas element, how some people are just more Reclaimer than others, how Spartan-IIs may actually just be artificially recreated Ancient Humans

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Like, sure, at the end of the day, Halo is a series written by humans for humans. Of course we're gonna glaze ourselves up.

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I just don't find the angle 343 has taken interesting, as it takes the commentary of human nature, but assigns it to another race entirely to take the fall.

empty bloom
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I mean, Halo literally started out with the main character being a product of eugenics.

orchid kettle
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Yeah and thats why Spartans make me a wee bit uncomfortable

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I'd prefer less of that, rather than more.

empty bloom
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That's why I like IVs tbh, because way less emphasis is made on the genes and it's outright stated that they actively utilize more than one style of augmentation when needed due to their 'nonuniform genetics'.

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And other myriad reqs.

orchid kettle
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I do too, its just the potential that the IVs in-universe are one step closer to humanity replicating the Forerunners is what concerns me.

empty bloom
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That was an interesting tidbit of info to find.

sacred rain
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aight lads cause im in a meme convo with some of the boys

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when would chief have learned arby's real name

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and by extension who he actually is and the stuff he's done

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cause as it stands this is basically just chiefs energy with arby: https://youtu.be/WGhcc3qFWh4?t=27

YouTube
Parks and Recreation
Ron's Best Friend | Parks and Recreation

'We still never talk sometimes'

Parks and Recreation is streaming now on Peacock: https://pck.tv/2YzqTQ3

From Season 3, Episode 2 'Leslie comes down with the flu while planning the local Harvest Festival; Andy and Ron bond.

This is the official Youtube Channel for Parks and Recreation! Watch all of the official clips from the series, the funn...

▶ Play video
empty bloom
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Likely would've flashed by at some point if Cortana was on her game. Locke had compiled the dossier before Arby was even an employee making mediocre sliced sandwiches for minimum wage.

orchid kettle
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he just found a youtube video explaining who Arby is

last anchor
golden spear
empty bloom
golden spear
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Fair, my point is the ethics of Spartan-IVs are a lot more morally sound than Spartan-IIs who were kidnapped children and Spartan-IIIs who were manipulated

pale zenith
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The tension of survival

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vs spartan training children without consent

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It’s not like bungie didn’t know

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moral ambiguity is gud food for thought

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Of course if tech exists to use adults

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Then ya go for that lol obviously

orchid kettle
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Yeah, I think the IIs and IIIs being these brainwashed, traumatized children is supposed to balance the inherent appeal of watching a supersoldier in action

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You may want to be as cool as Master Chief-- but I think very few people would want to go through the part where Mendez cattle prods them on a daily basis

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Or the part where you have a 40% chance to survive the augmentations, and you just have to live with being a Quasimodo if things go wrong

tropic forge
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It's a nice little tragic edge to everything they do. There's that blurb in Silent Storm where John, age fifteen, reflects that he's proud of what he has become...and you can really feel the indoctrination in how he thinks.

obsidian thistle
# orchid kettle If you buy the idea that Chief finding the terminals is canon, even in the Anniv...

In regards to collectables.
•Halo 3 Terminals were found
•Halo CEA Terminals were found but its uncertain if Chief watched them.
•Halo 4 Terminals were found but its uncertain if Chief watched them.
•Halo 2A: Only terminals Chief watched were the Locke ones. The rest are an anomaly.
•Halo Reach: The Data Pads were found.
•Halo 3: ODST: The Audio Logs were found.
•Halo Infinite: We are uncertain if Chief found anything atm.

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I can cite everything I said above! 🙂

stiff trench
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I like how the forerunners literally killed the gods just because they had a superiority complex

fair hazel
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It's more complex than that

finite ginkgo
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They really were just refused the mantle of responsibility

stark atlas
obsidian thistle
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Several for that stuff! 🙂

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Some untraditional also

obsidian thistle
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Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary Terminals: http://web.archive.org/web/20141013002126/https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst135464_CLASSIFIED---HYDRAI-THREAD---GLYPH-CODES.aspx

Halo 3 and 4 Terminals: A lotta sources but to just say 1 "Page 129 of the Halo 4: Essential Visual Guide".

Halo 3 ODST Audio Logs: https://web.archive.org/web/20191208232815/https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/catalog-interaction/4c3e1c6f-6519-4ee0-83a4-4bac13bf07a3/posts?page=48

Halo Reach Data Pads: https://web.archive.org/web/20201127223436/https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/questions-about-reach-datapads-and-flood/f10052fc-996a-46ab-821a-80480becd629/posts

Halo 2 Anniversary Terminals: The first few terminals say John-117 accessed them!

CLASSIFIED - HYDRAI THREAD - GLYPH CODES - Halo 4 - Halo Waypoint...

CLASSIFIED - HYDRAI THREAD - GLYPH CODES: /!AQUAIA IS AN OPERATIVE'S BEST FRIEND!/ ******************************* ******************************* ******************************* ******************************* ******************************* *******************************...

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@stark atlas

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I told ya I can cite everything I said! 😉

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Essentially speaking. If it can be found in Halo 3, CEA, Halo 4, ODST, and Reach.

A version of it was found in-universe by the respective characters! 🙂

stark atlas
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Oh my HypeChief

obsidian thistle
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Maybe not in the same way as how the game shows it... I doubt Noble Team killed an Elite 30 seconds after landing in the first mission to get a Data Pad.

But fictionally the data pads data was recovered by Noble Six.

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To add

empty bloom
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I choose to believe the canon method was the elite sneaking up on Six like when you get stealth attacked by an Orc in Shadow of War, showing him the pad, and then running away.

obsidian thistle
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Its never said Chief read/watched the CEA or Halo 4 terminals. He only recorded them with Cortana.

Chiefs is only confirmed to record and read the Halo 3 terminals, and watch the first 3 H2A ones.

For the ODST Audio Logs to be collected, that means The Rookie actually watched the whole thing. (This is confirmed by the Rookie actually acknowledging their existence in the 30 Audio Log cinematic with the Engineer)

And nothing says Noble Six read the data pads. They only recorded them.

empty bloom
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One would think the Assembly would've done everything in their power to scour those records.

obsidian thistle
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No one knows what happened to the Assembly after Reach.

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But based on the fact that the discoverer left pads around

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It was hard to ignore.

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The good news however

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If you read the source I put above

empty bloom
obsidian thistle
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Query Answer: The purported "Assembly" is referenced in logs recovered by Spartan B-312 during combat operations on Reach. This organization appears to be a group of rogue AI constructs which have been observing and guiding humanity. The reliability of this information has been contested.

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The Assembly as recorded by B-312 was considered unreliable.

obsidian thistle
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Unfortunately at this current time no source says the Halo 5 Intel, and Halo Infinite Audio Logs were found (beyond I guess the 4 progression ones in Infinite you get regardless)

terse rampart
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The yanme'e scientific name abbreviation is T. rex

random spire
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A video about the life of the Arbiter from Covenant Canon. I narrated this!

pale zenith
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how many marines were on zeta

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Is there a known estimate

last anchor
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No

orchid kettle
# pale zenith how many marines were on zeta

Infinity supposedly only had a fraction of its usual population, and was sitting at 7,150 but there were like six frigates at least tagging along. And those could hold anywhere from like, 40-200 marines.

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though then you of course have the problem of whether or not there's even enough lifeboats and pelicans to get all those people off safely

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So like-- chances are, probably only a few hundred. Chief's lil section of the ring may have a higher density of human survivors than normal, if only because apparently every prisoner on the ring will eventually be cycled through the Tower/House of Reckoning

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if I recall correctly

pale zenith
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of the 7150 infinite crew, are most marines?

obsidian thistle
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There is/was Zeta staff also

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People on or standed on Zeta Halo

terse rampart
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Why did the forerunners try to use lekgolo to kill the flood?

unique rune
static trench
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Anyone else waiting for Chief to finally get a Combat Skin?

knotty jungle
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People at 343 need to watch this, I believe in you guys! Been holding faith since bungie dumped halo 4 on your lap and said “bye lil bro goodluck” it honestly could have been worse, you guys got this! Cheers!

safe hawk
knotty jungle
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Wow sad gif lol

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Your lack of faith disturbs me xD

safe hawk
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Those people are blinded by nostalgia.

knotty jungle
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I miss halo 5 firefight lmao

safe hawk
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Halo got popular at the time because of the circumstances that it was placed in.

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Let’s be honest

knotty jungle
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Meh sort of, I personally liked all of it lol

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Still would stand out if it released now days lol

safe hawk
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  1. Halo CE ushered in a unique twist in FPS titles
  2. Halo 2 popularized Online console gaming
  3. The PS3 didn’t compete with the 360 at the times with its online network, 3rd party games and lack of 1st party ones.
knotty jungle
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The script was awesome imo like the story, universe and such lol

safe hawk
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The moment the PS4 dominated the Xbox One, halo went with it

knotty jungle
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I don't recall ps4 dominating Xbox lol especially with their no more free online thing but yeah

safe hawk
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… you’re joking right

knotty jungle
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I do agree ps4 was doing good with exclusives lol but that was on Microsoft lol

safe hawk
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Are you forgetting the horrible Xbox one launch back in 2013?

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Always online, Kinect holding back the console, E3 showing?

knotty jungle
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Lmao! Exactly Microsoft screwing up lol

safe hawk
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Right

knotty jungle
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Halo was still strong though lol

empty bloom
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... In 2013?

knotty jungle
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At least not dead like now anyways lol

safe hawk
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Then COD took off

empty bloom
knotty jungle
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Cod is doing amazing rn lol

safe hawk
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Halo’s popularity had a lot to do with the circumstances that it was in

knotty jungle
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Same goes for any game though

safe hawk
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Not COD

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COD been successful since 07

knotty jungle
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They’re motto is SSDD though lol

safe hawk
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You’re telling me MW is the same as BOPS?

knotty jungle
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I've never been into cod personally

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Black ops isn't even made by the same people right?

safe hawk
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Lol so how are you talking about it like you know COD?

knotty jungle
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I just never got hooked on a basic shooter that's easily made and outdone lol

safe hawk
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Basic?

knotty jungle
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It's nothing to gloat about, you play cod once you played them all lol

safe hawk
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Okay. We are done here.

knotty jungle
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Agreed lol you’re in the wrong group friend xD

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I'd rather play Arma than CoD bro its just not that exciting lol no offence

safe hawk
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Just remember, you weren’t into COD. Remember that next time when you talk about it

knotty jungle
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Oh I will and ill still dis it for the same factual reasons lol

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And remember when halo is dead, I will stand on the edge with yipnap and stare into my favorite abyss ;D

boreal bane
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Time to shift back to lore discussion now, thanks

knotty jungle
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🫡Flood needs more spotlight!!

empty bloom
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Eh.

knotty jungle
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Be cool as a side campaign play as jinkins

empty bloom
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Really?

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Jenkins of all people? He instantly got infected.

knotty jungle
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But he was aware the whole time lol

empty bloom
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Yes, he'd be a movie

knotty jungle
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It would be the most brutal lore tell

empty bloom
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Not really.

unique rune
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feel like there’s not much to be told with Jenkins anymore

empty bloom
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Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss is way worse than anything the flood did tbh.

unique rune
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He was at Harvest, stuck as a Private for like 30 years, then got infected in a horrible way that’s already pretty well detailed in a book

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adapting that into a game would just be

kinda
nothing

knotty jungle
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True

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It would be easy for them but other than that maybe not lol

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I wouldn't mind it if they expanded on the multiplayer story and made either spartan ops (but way better god please…) or firefight.. Idk maybe go into it like reach for halo 7 instead of the usual chief story

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I think that's one of the reasons reach’s story was good was you were apart of that history lol in Chief’s lore he should be a general by now-basically is

empty bloom
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Spartan Ops is great.

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Spartan Miller best Spartan.

unique rune
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Miller is secretly one of the endless

safe hawk
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But then again, as long as halo 5 servers are still active, I will continue to support halo

knotty jungle
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Amen to that, I loved halo 5, me and my gf played that as her first halo because it was the only one she liked for some reason lol

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Halo will never die, it will just be missing in action 🫡

orchid kettle
orchid kettle
knotty jungle
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Halo wars was gods gift to man

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However I don't understand the legendary ending lol

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For #2 halo wars

safe hawk
orchid kettle
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Like, obviously popularity and amount of sales alone isn't going to convince anyone a product is good if they happened to not like it

orchid kettle
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If not that Halo's popularity was "unearned"

safe hawk
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Don’t inject or imply things I never said.

orchid kettle
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Yes, go on

safe hawk
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I’m good, man.

orchid kettle
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I have just no idea what you're even talking about.

boreal bane
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We moved on from this earlier

safe hawk
orchid kettle
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I mean, unless you guys were having half of it in a different server, it sure seems like the context is there.

safe hawk
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And yet you got the impression that I was making the argument that halo was bad.

orchid kettle
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Yeah, or at least, undeserving of its popularity.

safe hawk
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Did I say it was undeserving?

orchid kettle
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When you bring up the lack of competition in Halo 3's case, I'm not quite sure what else you're trying to say.

safe hawk
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So you ask questions instead of making bold assumptions.

orchid kettle
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I mean, I did ask you to elaborate further

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And you said "I'm good, man."

safe hawk
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After I called you out for making assumptions first, instead of asking questions first.

orchid kettle
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I think you're just upset that you were called out in the first place.

safe hawk
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I’m upset?

orchid kettle
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Considering you haven't really tried to provide any alternate explanation.

safe hawk
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Another assumption. You just can’t stop.

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But continue with your day.

orchid kettle
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I know that's what you wish I would do.

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I'd probably want the same, in your position.

safe hawk
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Lol

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Aight man

orchid kettle
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Still waiting on an explanation. 😉

dusty ferry
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Why is the natural state of halo fans hating each other

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Is there a lore reason for it

gilded mason
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neural physics

dusty ferry
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Of course, it’s all a plot of the endless to make sure the halo universe never proceeds to the point where they lose

orchid kettle
boreal bane
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**We moved on from this earlier **

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Take it to DMs or something

dusty ferry
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In other lore, is there a lore reason why visors in halo infinite don’t have similar lore stuff to the ones from 5?

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Did the unsc just stop people from making new visr spin-offs?

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Or is it just flavor text being different

unique rune
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The visors still have different manufacturers listed so I’d just chalk it up to doing different things with the flavor text

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It’s a mixed bag of manufacturers like Misriah, IMC, Watershed, Materials Group, RKD, Lethbridge, etc. but mostly dominated by plain old UNSC

main merlin
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How it calls the company that mades the CQB armor?

unique rune
versed helm
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hooolyy jesus

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anyone here read outcasts via an early copy?

safe hawk
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I want to

last anchor
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I just got mine. Last one sitting on the shelf.
I think most stores are just so low on stuff at the moment they're putting em out before they should.

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That, or Halo novels aren't the be-all-end-all anymore with how much other stuff they have

terse rampart
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Did anything happen with the flood after the events of halo wars 2?

empty bloom
unique rune
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I turned them into a delicious stew

empty bloom
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Depends on the store. I looked at the B&N near me and they didn't have any. They did have like five copies of Fall of Reach though.

round cargo
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Is there a page anywhere that shows the chronological order to read through the novels? I picked up 10 in an Amazon deal and I'm not sure where to start. newer era btw, I've read the flood/fall of reach/ghosts of onyx etc and loved them all, I've just tailed off for a good few years and would like to get caught up

orchid kettle
round cargo
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Apologies I don't think I've explained myself quite right, I've read I think most or all of the titles set in that period. I haven't read most of the 343 era titles and have picked up most of them recently, and I'm just not certain where to start reading chronologically in order to catch up

orchid kettle
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The Kilo-5 trilogy were the first batch of post war novels (Glasslands, Thursday War, Mortal Dictata)

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The gang from Onyx continue their story in Glasslands, so that's important

round cargo
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Crap I still have more to go then in that case lol

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I've got

Smoke and shadow
New blood
Point of light
Retribution
Renegades
Bad blood
Hunters in the dark
Divine wind
Envoy
Last light

orchid kettle
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Aight, lemme see if I can organize these well without looking it up

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I'd personally separate these novels into Trilogies or "Sagas"

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So like, the Buck books are New Blood and Bad Blood, in that order. New Blood leads up to Halo 5, Bad Blood is immediately after Halo 5.

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We have the Veta Lopis Trilogy, which I would recommend after the Kilo-5 trilogy or at least Glasslands, because it again includes a lot of the Onyx characters. These books are Last Light, Retribution, and Divine Wind.

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But here's the weird part-- Divine Wind takes place AFTER the third new Master Chief book by Denning, Shadow of Reach

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So you're not gonna know what happens in Divine Wind if you don't read Shadows of Reach first

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Then we have the Rion Forge Trilogy, which is Smoke and Shadow, Renegades, and Point of Light. If I recall, they're mainly set during or before the events of Halo 4/Spartan Ops. Pretty sure at least they're pre-Cortana Takes Over The Galaxy

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Hunters in the Dark and Envoy are kinda their own things, they're not really part of a trilogy (yet?)

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Hunters in the Dark follow Vale from Halo 5 before she became a Spartan. As she will be a main character in the upcoming Halo Outcasts, it may be important to read Hunters before this new book.

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Envoy continue the story of Gray Team from Cole Protocol, and but its mainly self-contained. It is post war, however. I think in like, 2557 or 2558.

orchid kettle
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The planet featured in the second book of this trilogy, Oblivion, is again the focus of the upcoming Outcasts novel, again by Denning.

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So that's another book I recommend reading before Outcasts. And naturally, since Oblivion is a direct sequel to the first book of the trilogy, Silent Storm, that should probably be read as well.

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Denning writes a lot of books, and they can be pretty interconnected, I know

round cargo
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This is all insanely useful information, you went above and beyond friend thank you

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I think I'll start with envoy just to have something standalone

orchid kettle
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Yeah, envoy is an easy read for that.

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Broken Circle is another mostly standalone book that people really like. Its exclusively about da aliens. Though it does introduce a concept that will appear later in Divine Wind.

round cargo
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So I'm missing the kilo 5 trilogy, oblivion and broken circle I think

orchid kettle
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There's also a lil short story called Shadow of Intent, about Half-Jaw or Rtas from Halo 2/3

round cargo
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I have a rough synopsis in my head of broken circle so it's not a priority, I used halopedia to spoil that one for me lol

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Shadow of intent is the one with the prelate am I correct in saying?

orchid kettle
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Yeah

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sorry, it wasnt Broken Circle then.

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There's also the books I like to call "Halo: High School"

round cargo
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Broken circle is the sangheili splinter group on the shield world right?

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Also sorry I have no idea of the spoiler policy in this channel

orchid kettle
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The two Battleborn books, which happen in like 2548, and then Legacy of Onyx, which takes place on Onyx after the war, and includes some of the Onyx cast again. Though not the same that would later appear in Last Light.

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Battleborn and Legacy of Onyx aren't connected in anyway--they're just both about high school students

round cargo
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What I'm learning is I'm more behind on the books than what I thought I was 😅

orchid kettle
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There are many

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I mainly enjoy them in the form of audiobooks these days

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Easier to get done while working

round cargo
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I did that with a lot of the mass effect novels while I was doing a stint on nightshifts for a while, but now I've a fair amount of free time so I'm gonna do this the old fashioned way

orchid kettle
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Noice

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But yeah, I recommend checking them out in trilogies once you're past the stand alones

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Easier perhaps to just sit down and experience the entirety of Rion Forge's life story in one go, instead of breaking it up

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tho Shadow of Reach is really the oddity here, as it ends up being more important to the Veta Lopis trilogy.

round cargo
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I might do rions trilogy in that case, I thought there was only 2 books

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But once again thank you for breaking it all down

orchid kettle
#

👍

#

oh, but uh

#

the second and third Rion books are kinda expecting you to have read the Forerunner Trilogy

obsidian thistle
#

But you "can" read it without them.

safe hawk
obsidian thistle
#
  1. Tell the story of the Master Chief in a fun way.
  2. Question the chiefs loyalty which was a theme of Halo 5.
  3. Give hints of the guardians.

Season 2 was a lot more direct by showing the Guardians doing stuff.

empty bloom
#

5

#

1253

#

(I'm on mobile)

obsidian thistle
#

Sesson 1 had a con of being written and recorded weekly so couldn't be as tied in to Halo 5 as it would be. Its legitimately amazing it came out so well!

Season 2 was pre-written so was able to be tied into Halo 5 a lot better!

empty bloom
#

So people are basically just heavily focusing on S1 to the exclusion of S2 from the sound of it?

safe hawk
abstract wren
abstract wren
empty bloom
#

People were already assuming he was in the right even before 5 came out.

#

With Locke being the bad guy.

#

Reason being, A), it's obvious he's going to be right, and B), Locke's armor and ONI symbol makes him out to he a bad guy.

abstract wren
#

why would they think that ?

#

lol

empty bloom
#

Because, verbatim from what I saw more than once, "he's the master chief"

#

Popular opinion would color the longrunning character as always being the unquestionably correct one.

abstract wren
#

yeah so not the lore got it

empty bloom
#

I mean, literally, yeah.

#

It wasn't lore making people say that.

abstract wren
#

Anyway. Marketing were a set up, but the payoff was from another set up

empty bloom
#

(That said, ONI was 100% being consistently painted as the shadowy evil and wrong half of the UNSC at that point, so Locke actively being an agent of it was kind of a juvenile grade tell that Chief is on the 'right' side of the government)

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

Amusingly, Chief would undeniably be a very bad person if the HCW was never prosecuted.

abstract wren
empty bloom
#

We didn't really know what had happened at that point either IIRC, just theories abound that it was misdirection.

abstract wren
#

But Halo 5 from player perspective never take this point of view (especially with the 2nd mission giving us already the Cortana info)

empty bloom
#

I do think they gave away that tell way too early.

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

I do wish that plots weren't so easy to call. But like... When has the established 'good main character guy' of a setting ever turned out to be a total monster over the course of a single game after nearly 15 years of games?

abstract wren
safe hawk
#

But it was kinda early

safe hawk
empty bloom
abstract wren
#

there is no development

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

By Halo standards it had pretty good development tbh.

safe hawk
#

I’m not understanding how you came to that conclusion.

abstract wren
empty bloom
#

But then you're going from 'literally none' to 'actually having some', so.

safe hawk
abstract wren
safe hawk
#

You know more about them through in game dialogue

empty bloom
#

Wouldn't it be great if we lived in a world where saying single answers made you right? Elaborate more please.

safe hawk
#

There’s about 15 minutes of dialogue

obsidian thistle
abstract wren
empty bloom
#

By that logic there really wasn't much over Halo as a franchise.

safe hawk
abstract wren
#

Halo 4 is doing the most

empty bloom
safe hawk
#

I believe Locke knew. The rest didn’t.

obsidian thistle
#

The game does the Cortana reveal in a way that makes ya think they know. But in reality they dont

safe hawk
obsidian thistle
#

Osiris were told Chief went rogue and were waking the Guardians.

safe hawk
abstract wren
obsidian thistle
#

Their mission was to recover Blue Team and the Prowler they used.

safe hawk
obsidian thistle
#

(RIP Prowler I guess)

abstract wren
#

OK. End of discussion here

safe hawk
#

Fine with me. You weren’t even consistent with your arguments. You went from saying they were poor development to no development in under an hour.

empty bloom
#

Man, I hate the clown emote.

#

It's basically just a signal flare for quitting.

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

Like a salty dead man's switch.

safe hawk
#

Not even Roland knew what was going on

empty bloom
#

I mean it's basically just an outright insult

obsidian thistle
#

Ah I loved Roland in Halo 5. Confirmed the Forerunner numbers I worked out!

#

That was a fun project

safe hawk
#

And that’s always a positive for me.

empty bloom
#

It's both but okay.

obsidian thistle
#

Lets end that area of discussion mokie dokie! 😄

#

Its nae lore which is what I adore!

empty bloom
#

I've been stuck on the crew of the M820 for a while lately due to the turret.

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

Because I'm utterly convinced there's a true turret gunner, not just pintle guy, due to the top hatch.

obsidian thistle
#

It took the wreckage to Genesis

#

(Wish we saw the wreckage in Halo 5. But it is what it is)

safe hawk
obsidian thistle
#

Not directly.

#

Cortana saying "The rest of me is down there" is I suppose the only hint of it in a game

safe hawk
#

Was the approach fully destroyed? @obsidian thistle

empty bloom
#

The more I look at things people are thinking are new in Halo Infinite's day, I'm finding are actually old as hell and predate even 5's launch.

#

It'd be amusing if it wasn't frustrating.

empty bloom
#

If that's right, it would also explain why there was no mention of a salvaging spree over Earth after Halo 4.

#

Imagine the tech field day the UNSC could have had with even partial Forerunner wreckage over Earth.

#

No need to worry about hauling it far, already near geosynchronous orbit in spacial terms, don't need to escort any parts.

safe hawk
#

Which was my speculation

#

But since Chief used a havok nuke, i had my doubts

empty bloom
#

Eh, it's just a Havok Tacnuke.

#

Not a Nova.

#

Boy. There sure was a lot of fertile ground here for tech advancement that just kinda got dropped like a hot potato.

last anchor
#

Five bucks says the Created got their hands on it

safe hawk
golden spear
empty bloom
golden spear
#

True

#

Especially NOVAs

#

Because you wouldn't want a planet killing weapon falling into the wrong hands

#

Why did the UNSC never test plasma weapons post Covenant war

empty bloom
#

They simply found more value in weapons with greater range over weapons with greater injury capability.

#

Hence why they made supersized Spartan Lasers (M820 Hannibal Scorpion), Covvie Pulse Lasers (Mulsanne Class Laser Frigate), and magnetic weaponry (Hannibal Mantis, Hannibal Wasp, Railguns, etc)

#

Though realistic terms would dicate that the last of those is likely going to be the most consistently lethal.

dusty ferry
#

out of universe, we can't have unsc develop past their aesthetic

spiral jewel
#

Taking Divine Wind and Shadows of Reach into consideration, I wonder how many personal the Banished on the Ark and the SoF crew currently have? I assume both sides are running low

gusty star
#

Likely very many for the Banished, and still a decent amount for SoF

#

Assault carrier can carry a crazy load of personnel and it wasn’t the Banished’s only ship present

empty bloom
#

Which chaps my unmentionables but whatever.

final crag
#

The Mona Lisa is still canon right?

dusty ferry
#

The painting?

#

Also yes, basically everything is canon minus the tv show

final crag
#

The ship

#

Oh sweet

#

The TV show was a mistake

golden spear
#

Silver Timeline, the issue was that it wasn't faithful

unique rune
#

ehhhhhhh
I wouldn’t necessarily say that

#

“unfaithful” adaptations can be good if they’re
y’know

written well

last anchor
#

Still hope for Season 2.
Also; the UNSC is kind of advancing past its asctetic. Just not in the games much yet...

primal kestrel
#

Will Halo Outcasts connect with Halo Infinite in any way?

#

Kinda like Halo Rubicon Protocol?

fair hazel
#

Well without giving any spoilers, it does take place before infinite

#

It's not a type of rubicon protocol however as it has different characters and narrative story than exploring zeta halo and its crew

fiery summit
#

When was the last time someone talked about reach

distant socket
#

how long will it be until large covenant ships will be made again? Like 10-20 years?

#

or at least big ship classes that are from covenant origin, like cruisers or battleships

orchid kettle
#

That's always kinda a problem the UNSC has, as long as Halo continues. You'd expect technology to advance, but given the universe, it makes sense that they'd be replicating Covenant and Forerunner technology

#

Which makes the UNSC more similar to said factions, and diminishes the fun contrast of World War II space marines fighting purple aliens with rayguns.

dusty ferry
#

I mean, they tried making that aesthetic change, but everyone hated it for some reason

orchid kettle
#

I mean, I don't think they did.

#

As in, I don't really see the post war UNSC being more like the Covenant or anything

dusty ferry
#

There was more of the curvature in halo 5 designs. Covenant stuff has two big things, the smooth curves, and being purple

#

The hydra, the new rocket launcher, and some of the new designs of older weapons carried that in some form

orchid kettle
#

Maybe the Hydra, its honestly not hard picturing that as purple and being recontextualized as a Covenant weapon

dusty ferry
#

Yeah

#

Then everyone hated the aesthetic so now we have old tech in infinite which at least narratively made sense given ai integration was vaguely new tech

orchid kettle
#

I mean, I can kinda understand why

#

There's a lot of detail in the post war designs that maybe only serve to clutter things rather than enhance.

#

I'm usually of the mind that the best designs are the ones children can easily recall and doodle in their notebook

dusty ferry
#

That is a fair assessment of those designs

orchid kettle
#

and have said doodles be recognizable

dusty ferry
#

Star Trek ship design is very good at being doodleable

#

UNSC ships however are basically rectangles from the side

orchid kettle
#

back in high school, Id always doodle an ODST or Mark V helmet in profile in the margins

#

I tried to do the same with Warrior, which is my favorite GEN2 helm

#

but honestly my mind blanks when I try to recall how the mouth guard part of the helmet links with the rest

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, the gen 2 helmets are hard to doodle. I tried doodling helioskrill so many times

orchid kettle
#

I always liked that GEN3 Warrior concept from the art book as a result, as it gives the helmet some big vents to link the "face" part of the helm with the rest of it

dusty ferry
#

Gen 3 goes hard with every helmet

#

None of them are misses imo

#

Then again, I unironically like seeker

orchid kettle
#

b r i m

dusty ferry
#

Warrior looks so much better with that brim. I’m shook

orchid kettle
#

This is what peak performance looks like

#

Clearly the only reason it isn't in the game is because 343 wanted to give the other helmets a fighting chance

dusty ferry
#

I still wait for the Military police helmet, but I know it’s not happening

orchid kettle
#

but it has no brim

#

you turn it sideways and it's just a cylinder

main merlin
#

How Is named the company behind the creation of CQB armor?

orchid kettle
#

Why, Beweglichkeitsrüstungsysteme

#

of course

main merlin
#

Wow

#

Truly fan

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

I'm not sure what it's called, it may not even be OUT out yet

#

Its just also meant to look like a marine helmet

gaunt ember
unique rune
dusk jetty
#

The in-game lore says it was meant for spartan tank crews

#

But it probably isn’t coincidence it resembles the marine helmet

dusty ferry
#

Enigma was meant for army crews, but got assigned to Spartans due to its good vehicle cyberlink

#

That is the lore tab for it as far as I remember

dusk jetty
#

That makes more sense

empty bloom
#

Enigma is actually not too different from one of the H4/5 Marine helmet shapes.

dusty ferry
#

I think it’s one of the 4 ones. The bulky one that you saw in a tan color on some guys in the mammoth mission

dusk jetty
#

That reminds me, in Halo 4, (and possibly halo 5, I can’t recall at the moment) there was a marine variant that was green and had less armor then the “main” red and white marine variant, does anyone know what they were called or what their specialty was?

dusty ferry
#

I want to guess they were like a ranger/sniper guy, but I don’t know if there is lore to support that supposition.

dusk jetty
#

They showed up on Infinity, Reclaimer, and composer and they did often have DMRs

dusty ferry
#

Apparently the green guys with the mask are “heavy infantry” according to some photos on halopedia

dusk jetty
#

Heavy? You would think they’d have more armor

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, I don’t get it either.

#

It’s probably because the helmet covers more of the face, and I think the green style has extra wrist armor

#

Except the standard one has thigh protection unlike the heavy marine

#

The chest plate might also be bigger

#

It’s hard to tell on a phone screen

drowsy mesa
#

And Halo Epitaph was delayed, to February 27

drowsy mesa
#

.... unless we get a story from Infinite's Season 5 (although I think that's not going to happen)

obsidian thistle
#

We get Intel + Armor lore. And Canon Fodders from Alex (Haruspis)

And I guess visual lore from Season 5 whatever the maps and UI give us! 🙂

fair hazel
fair hazel
#

Here's the discussion thread for Halo: Outcasts (Spoilers)

steep warren
#

This is kinda random, but, does anyone know any particular sources for information on in-universe competitive war-game simulation? I could’ve sworn I remembered information establishing that matches were often broadcasted, but I can’t seem to find anything.

mossy folio
#

Hi

unique rune
steep warren
#

Perhaps so! I’ll look into that more, thank you.

empty bloom
fair hazel
frozen reef
#

I love Halo, but i need to learn the lore, i don't rlly understand it

empty bloom
frozen reef
#

literally the only halo games ive played

empty bloom
#

CE and 2?

#

I'm a bit lost.

frozen reef
#

I just want to learn the lore from halo 3, halo 3 ODST, halo 4, halo 5, and Halo Infinite

#

That's all

empty bloom
#

I'd love to help you, but I need to know what I'm working with here.

frozen reef
empty bloom
#

ODST is mostly jus the UNSC getting access to Engineers in the timespan of Halo 2. Halo 3 is the end of the human-covenant war due to deus ex machina. Halo 4 is the continuation of the human-forerunner war. 5 is the AI uprising that kicked the UNSC to the curb. infinite is the end of that.

frozen reef
#

aight

empty bloom
#

Infinites in an awkward spot because it only solved regional issues.

frozen reef
#

good enough

#

i gtg

#

cya

empty bloom
#

I can give something more in depth later. It's a bit of a broad question you're asking, sorry.

unique rune
#

So is there any particular reason why Chief had Cortana show him Installation 04’s index while they were still inside Gravemind-ified High Charity…? It’s bothered me for years and I can’t think of why that would’ve made sense to either of them outside of “it’s Halo 3, shut up”.

steep warren
#

Epic gamer callback moment

#

Halo 3 has enough larger weird plot holes, i dont really notice the smaller ones

safe hawk
#

It’s the perfect game

void nimbus
#

Because the ark was in the process of building a new installation 04

#

Chief and the arbiter discovered this

#

Chief and Cortana rightly assumed the same activation index would trigger the unfinished ring's firing sequence

unique rune
#

Sure, but why do they need to discuss that inside the Gravemind...?

Like they're just giving away their entire grand plan to kill the Gravemind while it is all around them and listening in.

#

Surely it would've been more sensible to, I dunno, escape first?

void nimbus
#

The grave mind pretty much knows everything

#

It's hard to keep secrets from it

#

Sure, it would have been sensible to hide that fact

unique rune
#

But it didn't know that Cortana had the index. And it wouldn't have known if they had just.

Left.

#

Instead they reveal everything while they're functionally still inside of it where it is most capable of attacking them.

void nimbus
#

John is pretty confident he can shoot his way out

#

Mix things up a little

unique rune
#

This answers nothing

#

So I'm just gonna chalk it up to "Halo 3 is a mess" and leave it at that.

void nimbus
#

The grave mind is implied to have omniscience though

#

It even has influence over John's mind somehow

unique rune
#

The Gravemind can communicate with John but certainly isn't able to read his mind, otherwise it would've figured out what the whole plan was from the beginning.

steep warren
orchid kettle
#

Either you do it in the Gravemind or you do it in the Pelican, and I guess they decided it flowed better when its explained after Chief finds her.

safe hawk
#

Not me tho. I don’t put halo 3 on a pedestal

orchid kettle
#

Best I can figure is that Cortana in the darkness of the Gravemind is just a more striking image than like, her on that lil Pelican holotank

#

Honestly even if you change it so she reveals the Index in the Pelican, I don't think the story really changes.

#

Since the Gravemind is probably gonna try to eat Chief and friends anyway as long as they remain within eating range

unique rune
#

Yeah, the net result doesn't really change

It always just struck me as a bit of an odd decision

safe hawk
dusk jetty
#

A lot of dialogue in halo 3 never made much sense. In fact, the whole “To war” line from Miranda was a butt of a joke that led to my “missing Spartan” nickname. Miranda refusing to give a solid location for a rally point ended up costing a spartan that could’ve been on the ground.

#

That, along with Arby insulting the Yan’me and then saying they should rebel

#

And then you read the terminals and end up confused because mendicant presents a different timeline of his defection to the flood then what supposedly happened

last anchor
#

There's a lot of weird stuff in the game.
Im still scratching my head as to why the Forerunners made shield towers you could deactivate from the outside to protect the citadel.

#

Like, sure they can be protected and all but they're still exposed on the outside. The most likely invader would have been the Flood.

unique rune
#

I think Halo 3’s campaign is very sorta… summer blockbuster action movie in its writing

Because I feel like most of it is just kind of relying on how exciting or badass it feels moment to moment with little regard for how much sense it makes once you stop to give it much more thought than “WHOA SOMETHING BIG EXPLODED” or how cool the one liner that just dropped was

#

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing…

But personally I don’t much care for it

#

At least in the context of Halo 3. If I didn’t hate 3’s gameplay and level design so much I might’ve actually been fine with that sort of writing

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

Arby was just being a silly little fella.

empty bloom
#

It's disgustingly linear, though.

modern sentinel
#

In Halo: Smoke and Shadows.
The scavenger's ship name is "Ace of Spades" and one of the main characters names is Cade.
I was wondering if that is a reference or something to Destiny.

orchid kettle
#

At some point, it's just a button that's there because it's a video game and your objective is to press it.

#

And Im sure if it was written as a movie or something, they wouldn't even put a shield around the Citadel in the first place.

#

Never forget Reach, and how apparently Covenant ships have a dedicated "Link Up With The Supercarrier" button

obsidian thistle
modern sentinel
#

His daughter and him played cards. As the Ace of spades is her ship!

obsidian thistle
#

Thats what the ships name is a reference to.

#

It wasnt a Destiny reference

modern sentinel
#

I understand that but is there any signifigance that destiny has the same concept with cayde?

obsidian thistle
#

I'd say no.

hollow belfry
#

Is the spirit of fire presentation lore accurate

#

because one unsc ship holding down the entirety of the banished is really really strange especially with the opening cutscene of infinite

#

but uh also how strong are banished hunter captains

orchid kettle
#

As to why the Banished didn't get their own ship and zap the Spirit of Fire with one good pulse laser when they still had a ship

#

uh

#

because a game needs to happen lol

#

Its a shame, you'd figure the Spirit of Fire going down, and Cutter being on the ground rallying the survivors would be a pretty good story beat

#

But I guess it would have seemed repetitive when Infinite later came out, and also featured a protag ship getting gutted and the survivors being stranded on a Forerunner installation

empty bloom
#

I'm just saying, Infinite could've worked fine if it was just a combat drop Halo 2 style going wrong after the Infinity dipped.

#

Didn't need to kool aid man the Infinity for that.

#

I wonder if anyone actually discussed the optics of the SoF just getting away with vibing while the Infinity basically fails a vibe check by a semi hitting it after getting locked in a room with fifteen tear gas grenades for an hour.

last anchor
worldly brook
#

Just made a theory video about understanding banished numbers if anyone is interested DM me!

empty bloom
worldly brook
unique rune
empty bloom
#

I do not appreciate it for that.

meager pier
#

Are we allowed to discuss Outcasts spoilers here?

boreal bane
abstract wren
#

This channel will be spoiler free until when ?

boreal bane
#

1 month

abstract wren
#

a little short since the book only goes on sale the 25 of August in England

boreal bane
#

We can extend it for a month after UK release

craggy hamlet
#

On a lore standpoint what’s the point of the military police helmet being accessible to Spartans?

gusty star
#

Pretty sure it says it in the in-game description

unique rune
#

The MK.V[MP] is a shared asset with Beta-5 Security; as such, sensor upgrades are many and varied.
The Mk. V[MP] variant is one of just a handful of assets shared between branches of the armed forces.
(Reach)
Previously available only to Beta-5 security teams and select Army rapid-reaction forces, Military Police helmets have found a home with Spartan-IV fireteams that require its hardened uplink, command network module, and remote sensor controller.
(5)

#

It’s just a MJOLNIR-compatible version of the CH252 helmet platform

last anchor
#

Same with the Air Assault and Pilot helmets

#

The UNSC wastes nothing if it can help it

tawny fox
#

Like they just used the design of a run of the mill covenant battle cruiser and called it a day

scarlet hinge
#

they compressed that level down due to pacing issues, and then used the unused geometry for Cortana when they had to scrap the plans they had for Cortana's original cut

#

we have a lot of information on this cut original plan for the level; scripts, layouts, and concepts. Had it made final ship, we'd have had you delving into the Mausoleum of the Arbiter to fight an army of infected ancient Arbiters, Cortana driving a Scarab and you being on the back of it fending off Flood forms and Gravemind tentacles, and Cortana using the Scarab to kill the Gravemind

https://www.halopedia.org/High_Charity_(cut_Halo_3_level)

tawny fox
#

Yeah I remember reading about the scrapped idea of a gravemind boss battle. That would have been insane

orchid kettle
empty bloom
#

I don't really 'get' the concept of something like the Gravemind being a boss battle unless the boss battle is organizing a mass orbital bombardment.

unique rune
carmine sleet
#

Yeah, less of a traditional "kill the boss" boss fight

#

Which is something that I definitely would like to read the design documents for

honest plume
#

pins I have a question if you see this

versed helm
#

Rev

honest plume
#

LMAO

fringe robin
edgy wedge
#

Is there a lore reason why master chief had a different suit in between halo 3 and 4

versed helm
edgy wedge
#

ah nanobots, Ole reliable

#

Wasn't that the twist in Outlast

meager pier
ripe sage
abstract wren
#

Its spoiler free ?

ripe sage
#

yes!

#

will just be covering the bits released in the Outcasts previews

#

chapters 1, 2, and 5

obsidian thistle
#

(Ooh I'll just casually do the call for all Halopedians to listen in! 😉)

abstract wren
obsidian thistle
#

I... am still waiting

#

But alas I cant wait! This will effectively be a return to the lore streams of old, just without visuals!

abstract wren
tawny fox
verbal pollen
#

I believe you were guiding a scarab through charity, blasting through tentacle and stuff

obsidian thistle
#

Not long till the Spartan Chatter!

#

Heh!

#

Nice

boreal bane
obsidian thistle
#

For those curious! I been pushing for that for ages!

#

Began as a simple organisation thing we did on Halopedia in 2020. Something about "One massive list of books being not friendly to readers!"

#

Then 343i adopted it in 2021 with WAY better names!

#

(Would you believe it that in the og Halopedia groupings I called "The Original Series" the "Original quadrilogy" like a total monster)

#

And since then I was hoping for an official list on Waypoint! (As currently 3 books have them and that isnt widespread)

Something that doesn't require someone to go on Halopedia (and while I love them if they do. Waypoint has more eyes so makes the groupings WAY more public)

#

So Haruspis and co did fantastic work there!

#

IE I am a big fan of that article if that isn't obvious!

obsidian thistle
#

That was fun!

ripe sage
#

thanks for joining! blobinlove

pale zenith
obsidian thistle
#

Was a horrible term lol. XD

#

Like what was I thinking

surreal glen
#

Why in the live action "We are ODST" trailer they tell us the story of this Tarkov trooper if he's not in the game?

#

Is there any more lore of him?

late whale
#

Unfortunately, no. His story begins and ends with that trailer.

last anchor
#

Its just a really cool trailer.
Though it is theorized that the fresh-faced recruit that rams his helmet on when Tarvok picks up the units flag is the Rookie.

#

Theres no real proof of this but since we have no knowlage of when, where, and why Tarkov is fighting at the very end, its entirely possible it could be the same planet that the Rookie found Gage Yevgenny on.

stuck bone
#

What are all the lore information you know about Elites laying eggs?

abstract wren
#

They lay eggs and cover them

lone plover
#

hey what the difference between particle weapon and plasma weapon?

#

arent they both using ions?

abstract wren
lone plover
#

if beam rifle were to be realistic...it should be able to go through tanks and go straight through a spartan like it armor is nothing

#

and make plasma rifle or any plasma weapon obsolete

abstract wren
#

Beam rifle is using ions

obsidian thistle
abstract wren
obsidian thistle
#
  1. If we take some loose stuff serious. Gretchen (Dutchs wife) was involved with the drop mission in We Are ODST! Though its mostly due to semantics. (I can explain this better later today)
#

Infact I'll just toss this here. Shows what I mean in 5 seconds.

https://twitter.com/cia391/status/1495139872985731073

Chris Aiken on Twitter

A fun extra fact! Did you ever notice how Gretchen appears in the We Are ODST trailer during the drop?

The same actress who played Gretchen during the ODST Pre-Mission Evals is seen on a screen in the drop pod!

Twitter ·
#

I will say it might not be her. But a simple re-using footage.

But it builds so much like her fighting against the Covenant, only to become out of commission due to Human rebels.

obsidian thistle
#

I suppose if it is Gretchen. That places the first drop in We are ODST after May 14, 2538. (This is assuming Gretchen became an ODST RIGHT off the bat which is unlikely. But of course Gretchen will need training herself which already puts it after that date)

empty bloom
#

"The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is an energy weapon, firing a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target with damage resulting from both thermal and kinetic energy."

abstract wren
#

but its not in Halo

empty bloom
#

I know.

#

I'm explaining the thing he's talking about, not saying it's in Halo.

#

(It's also mechanically a sort of lightning gun.)

abstract wren
#

Yeah but if its not in Halo, its irrelevant

empty bloom
abstract wren
#

Well, not in Halo lore. Its not the same univers, their might not be the same technology

empty bloom
#

They don't really operate the same way, no.

last anchor
#

That being said, its entirely possible the UNSC could make a PPC at some point, which leads to some pretty horrifying Scorpion implementations...

#

...UNSC Battlemechs when.

#

Make it happen Catalyst, MS owns the rights to the Battletech games too, lets get a Colossus MK II out here

empty bloom
#

Like, I'm just saying what a PPC is from and what it does in Battletech, I'm very, very aware of the difference.

#

For the sake of explaining what it does.

#

I'm not getting any of that wrong, it's just expressed for the sake of clarity.

last anchor
#

I was more joking than anything but yeah.

empty bloom
#

ACK

last anchor
#

Is good

versed helm
#

Guys I think master chief's name is John

versed helm
true quartz
dusty ferry
#

I thought it was jack

soft pasture
#

Is it he named John Halo?

midnight aspen
#

so the cortana that we see in halo 5 and 6 are just fragments of og cortana’s rampant personalities?

#

the main cortana died when the didact destroyed the terminal that cortana was in in halo 4 after splitting off her personalities?

#

or was mosf of her transported to the domain and only a tiny fraction of her (a rampant clone) healed and turned into the new cortana

abstract wren
#

She was fragmented and defragmented with the Domain. Its Cortana.

true quartz
abstract yarrow
# midnight aspen so the cortana that we see in halo 5 and 6 are just fragments of og cortana’s ra...

Halo Infinite wouldn’t make sense narratively if that isn’t Cortana. Why would Chief be torn up over a clone when we see he isn’t concerned the Weapon who is (ostensibly) a Cortana clone.

The insinuation to make from her coming back in Halo 4 is that it’s very difficult to destroy an AI and they can restore themselves even if rendered down into a few shards. Which does contradict the way the dust and echoes are described in Infinite admittedly. This occurs with Leonidas in the book Bad Blood and a recent book with a Forerunner AI set on the Ark. There isn’t a qualification about it no longer being them.

Also, Halo Outcasts is probably the most explicit in explaining her change of behaviour from the Arbiters perspective she was good but now “she was quite mad.” So again, it is her just with a personality change.

empty bloom
#

Thank you, someone who gets it.

orchid kettle
#

Wild how Leonidas survives being destroyed twice in Bad Blood, since he's apparently around to take orders from Cortana later

abstract wren
#

The Weapon is not supposed to be a clone but ok

unique rune
#

I mean
that’s why they said

ostensibly
in a way that appears or claims to be one thing when it is really something else:

#

Because the Weapon is pretty much a clone of Cortana at a surface level
Even if there’s some other stuff going on with her

surreal bay
#

Wasn't she a prototype or something? I don't remember much Cortana lore, I just remember that she had prototype AI and that they were left on Reach

abstract wren
#

She is made (which contradict other sources thanks 343) to ressemble to Cortana. But she is not made from Cortana

empty bloom
#

I'm honestly trying really hard to give Weapon the benefit of the doubt right now.

#

Because she gives me massive replacement goldfish vibes and I'm not about that life.

abstract wren
surreal bay
#

Aaaah

surreal bay
empty bloom
#

...

#

What?

abstract wren
surreal bay
#

I'm just throwing options around

empty bloom
#

Weapon was basically designed as a oneshot tool to get destroyed later. It's why she has such an impersonal name.

#

Brain no worky for a sec.

#

She grew past her programming, and Chief's a sucker who let her do that instead of ripping her out of his head and destroying her like he was supposed to do.

#

Not that she wasn't instrumental, but part of the mission literally involved killing her after her job was done.

abstract wren
#

Yes but from a meta standpoint, she's there to replace the role of Cortana "to do just like the old game"

empty bloom
#

What's sad is, I'd still rather have a replacement goldfish over a reset.

#

The current galactic state of affairs is fascinating, if hidden.

surreal bay
#

I really hope we get another book about the ace of spades or whatever it's called.

empty bloom
#

Do wish they'd rip off the bandaid and go full Mass Effect like they kinda hinted at wanting to do a few times though

surreal bay
#

It'd give a good on how non superpowers are reacting to the created.

unique rune
#

I’ve been revisiting the campaign lately and I’m surprised just how annoyed I am by the entire reveal of the Harbinger and all that with the Endless this time around

surreal bay
empty bloom
#

HiddenX is an extremely unreliable source.

surreal bay
#

I know, but I didn't want to buy a book about split lips.

empty bloom
#

He'll often have very different interpretations gleaned from thin air.

unique rune
#

I should probably get caught up on all the novels at some point.
But I feel like I should reread the Forerunner trilogy before getting into the Ace of Spades stuff…

empty bloom
#

That's goofy. I'm a massive IV fanboy and that determines what books I put priority in buying, but I don't really let that stop me from reading most of them.

surreal bay
#

Him and Halo Follower are probably the worst two when it comes to lore.

empty bloom
#

Even if I really don't care for how Denning writes MJOLNIR.

surreal bay
empty bloom
#

I'd imagine a cursory understanding of who and what Chakas is is all you really need.

surreal bay
empty bloom
#

Me with... Literally any "A Blue team story" novel.

surreal bay
#

Shadows of Reach was pretty good IMO.

empty bloom
#

It was, but my beef's usually with stuff like Silent Storm.

unique rune
surreal bay
#

Tbf, I'm not very picky when it comes to the books though. If it's got explosions, dead aliens and cool guys in power armor, I'll like it.

empty bloom
#

I'm usually more interested in Orion Arm affairs over interpersonal ones.

#

Hence why my top priority tends to go towards stuff like Warfleet.

#

Eh, taste is fickle.

surreal bay
#

War fleet is Eh, in my opinion. Compared to the encyclopedia it has barely any ships in it.

empty bloom
#

I'm just saying, I would devour a Battletech Technical Readout style book about MJOLNIR variants.

#

Hell, I'm making one because I'm tired of not getting one.

surreal bay
#

I would not.

surreal bay
#

I just want more SoF and Ace of Spades lore.

#

Halo: Divine Wind makes me want more.

unique rune
#

Warfleet was cool but I will admit I was a bit disappointed by how bare it was

#

I’d kill for Haynes manuals for Halo vehicles
similar to the ones they made for Star Wars

orchid kettle
#

Id settle for Warfleet 2: Electric Boogaloo

#

Ideally with a lot more information, as nice as the illustrations are.

empty bloom
#

An entire book covering Osteo

#

Give

surreal bay
#

Why do Forerunner cities look so terrible to live in?

empty bloom
#

You also don't really see living spaces, but facilities.

surreal bay
#

Ah

#

Thanks.

scarlet hinge
#

we've also never seen a Forerunner city, for that matter

#

we've seen their military installations (Halos/Requiem) and research facilities (Halos) and industrial centres (X50/Threshold gas mines)

#

but we've never seen one of their civilian habitats

versed helm
meager pier
scarlet quiver
#

Ah man, I have always complained about Forerunner architecture since Halo 2 came out.
For game design, yep, makes sense. But wow, gondolas? We know the Forerunners can teleport, use grav lifts, gondolas, stairs, mostly ramps... outside of their purpose to support game design, it makes no sense...

#

Hey, how do you want us to get down this long tunnel?
Very, very slowly.

fair hazel
empty bloom
carmine sleet
empty bloom
#

I think Almond's beef is with gondolas specifically.

#

Slow, static, massive gondolas that can't even lift cargo by design.

#

They make entire structures for Gondolas.

scarlet quiver
carmine sleet
#

Ah, so it's more from a level design perspective than lore reason you hate them

empty bloom
#

It can't be both?

carmine sleet
#

But aye, the gondola sections are not great

empty bloom
#

Because for me it's totally both

scarlet quiver
#

Oh, i dont like them for any reason.

#

I will put it on my tombstone, "He always hated gondolas."

#

And they kept putting them in the games.... 🤦🏽‍♂️
Who said, "you know what was popular we need to put into Infinites campaign? A gondola. The statistics show that everyone love the last 3 versions..."

empty bloom
#

I'm 90% sure that was a brownie point 'remember GONDOLAS!?' sequence.

#

Like, a sewer level joke

#

Yeah, haha, it's funny, but it's still a damn sewer level

carmine sleet
#

At least there was only one

scarlet quiver
#

It is always the same gameplay as well. That is what i dont get.
It is like they need 15 minutes of more gameplay for the campaign, so they shove in a damn gondola sequence.

carmine sleet
#

And it was significantly shorter than the sequences in Halo 2

scarlet quiver
#

Yea.

empty bloom
#

Like the Arbiter level where like half of it is Gondola

scarlet quiver
#

Off subject, then i have to get back to work:
Technician, always nice to meet another Resident Evil fan.
Trechbird, i see you redid your profile?

midnight aspen
#

Because why would a genius AI with all the knowledge of past human history and stuff think that being a fascist ruler of the galaxy would ever work

abstract wren
midnight aspen
#

That’s pretty much germany

#

in ww2

abstract wren
#

Makes perfect sense.
And we could say that we know war is bad, discrimination is bad. And yet there is still war and discriminations. Its not because we know something, that we are doing it....

abstract wren
#

And Cortana didn't make a plan to genocide (even if she did it in the end). Chronology is important

midnight aspen
#

They thought they were a perfect race and had superior tech but

#

then cortana didn’t die when the didact destroyed the terminal that the main cortana was in?

#

because if halo 5 and 6 cortana is actually her then something weird had to happen there

abstract wren
#

She got into the Domain yes, as explained in Halo 5 and in Dominion Splinter

midnight aspen
#

yea but her rampant parts got into the domain

abstract wren
#

And again, Cortana's arc makes perfect sense.

midnight aspen
#

the main cortana died when the didact destroyed the terminal

abstract wren
#

Its the same thing

midnight aspen
#

what

abstract wren
#

Cortana is rampant.

midnight aspen
#

her rampant clones got into the domain

#

the cortana we knew from halo ce to 4 died when the didact destroyed the terminal

abstract wren
midnight aspen
#

ur ignoring that the didact killed her by destroying the terminal

abstract wren
midnight aspen
#

how

abstract wren
#

well, she is seen being "killed" in an nuclear explosion in H4, not by the Didact in "a terminal". And even then, she did manage to escape via the link to the Domain from Didact's ship

midnight aspen
#

no like when the mission was to deactivate the shield

#

and u had cortana create rampant clones in terminals when u got to the last terminal and the didact caught on to ur plan

#

he destroys the terminal she is in effectively killing her and leaving her rampant clones with flawed logic behind

#

so the cortana that got caught in the domain are her rampant counterparts not actually her unless she somehow survived the terminal

abstract wren
midnight aspen
#

lemme find a yt video

#

this detail escaped me cuz like

#

there was literally no reaction to cortana dying there except for mc yelling “cortana!”

abstract wren
midnight aspen
#

but that makes no sense

#

if that’s the case then mc didn’t need to go to every terminal for her to clone her rampant parts

#

he just needed one

abstract wren
# midnight aspen but that makes no sense

You are making no sense. She has no physical body. She's made of information (code). Let's see as the terminal as a PC link to a network.
Cortana in that sequence is just data on a drive. She is uploaded to the PC and goes to the network. Then you destroy the PC,** the data is still in the network**

midnight aspen
#

the scene i’m referring to is at 1:10:35

#

no she isn’t in the entire ships network or wtv

surreal bay
#

She left the console and entered the Domain. Didn't she?

midnight aspen
#

she’s entering into terminals that are individually connected to the shield protecting the didact that’s why the master chief has to go to many different terminals instead of one

abstract wren
midnight aspen
#

that’s why when the didact destroys the terminal he destroys the main cortana

surreal bay
#

In the end it doesn't really matter because she's dead anyways.

abstract wren
abstract wren
#

But its too late

#

"Most of me is down there" - last custscen with Cortana

dusty ferry
#

the destruction of the chip only makes cortana incapable of being put back into master chief's armor

abstract wren
#

It is simple at that. Not needed to invent more explication

midnight aspen
#

I don’t think that’s the case

abstract wren
#

I know people really don't want to have Cortana as an antagonist. But it is what it is.

midnight aspen
#

again if cortana could just access the ships entire system from one terminal then why did he have to deposit her into multiple

abstract wren
abstract wren
orchid kettle
midnight aspen
#

no it meant that the terminals were individually connected to the shield system

abstract wren
midnight aspen
#

you’re not refuting it in any way bro main cortana died right there

abstract wren
carmine sleet
midnight aspen
#

are u being sarcastic cuz i srsly can’t tell

empty bloom
abstract wren
#

Noble 6 is alive because we didn't see him died. kind of thing

midnight aspen
#

what’s the fact i just want to know why that terminal was connected to the entire ships system instead of just individually

#

i’m just trying to find something to disprove this theory bro because it made perfect sense to cortana’s halo 5 actions

abstract wren
#

Lopis and Fred are in love with each other. -facts based on my headcannon

abstract wren
empty bloom
#

It being her makes sense as much as a fragment of her.

midnight aspen
#

so come up with something that disproves what i just said

orchid kettle
empty bloom
#

In other words, both make perfect sense.

abstract wren
#

But i want it to be true. I'm not just making this up to put it like facts

empty bloom
#

Though I prefer it being the actual her, because it both makes more narrative sense and strengthens the impact of her going full Spartan II era Halsey.

abstract wren
#

I want to Infinite be just an illusion of a possible future. But I can't, its facts

orchid kettle
#

I honestly don't see how a fragment of Cortana isn't still Cortana to begin with

#

Unless we're going by like, First Strike rules where Cortana is using stolen, corrupt code to make copies of herself

abstract wren
# empty bloom Though I prefer it being the actual her, because it both makes more narrative se...

And in any way, why would the destruction of the terminal destroy the main cortana ? ... why not everyone of her fragment then ? Why is she telling her she is complete ? If she is a fragment then why do John still feel about her ?
From a meta standpoint : it is just dismissive of the tension of the character -> she was the most trusted friend for John and she turned against him [so had to rely on his family, S-II]. She was a "daughter" of Hasley who already did things horrible "for the greater good". And so with more power and rampancy she could do everything, but better.

orchid kettle
#

but AIs make "fragments" of themselves all the time in other stories and they're fine

meager pier
abstract wren
#

However, Black Box is an exemple of fragment being destroyed. So not like Cortana (and not like in First Strike)

orchid kettle
#

Well, I just assume the difference is that Cortana is outright copying herself or sections or herself in First Strike

#

versus like, Sif sending a piece or fragment of herself into Mack's datacore in Contact Harvest

empty bloom
#

Or Black Box.

orchid kettle
#

where that's just at thing AIs do

abstract wren
#

But you are right, they can make "copies" of themselves too. And there, its supposed to be twins. Supposedly exacly the same but respondinf to the Prime

#

But this is very complex. Ans the lore is pretty fluid here.

carmine sleet
#

BB is also a different generation of Smart AI if I remember, right? It's possible they're a bit more advanced than Cortana in how fragmenting works (Correct me if I am wrong)

abstract wren
safe hawk
dusk jetty
#

It’s also possible that Cortana was still suffering from the logic plague

#

And the warden eternal simply was able to more easily manipulate her because of said plague

#

She was with the gravemind for what, three, four weeks? Plenty of time for manipulation.

#

Honestly there isn’t one definitive answer to why Cortana decided to take the mantle upon herself if you ask me. Multiple things coming together.

unique rune
dusk jetty
#

I read somewhere that warden convinced Cortana of the mantle stuff instead of the inverse, but that never made much sense to me.

#

Either way, Cortana was not in a 100% sane state of mind

#

She’d seen all the evidence about humans being the inheritors. But unless it’s been stated otherwise, I think some of her past trauma affected her decision making.

#

First strike made no secret that Halos data was not kind to Cortana. Also, like Jules said, there’s probably a bit of Halsey mentality in there

#

Halsey thinks she alone needs to fix her mistakes, she alone is the one to do it, and she’s willing to do anything to do such. (Like kidnapping Kelly and creating The Weapon.)

empty bloom
#

Vehemently.

#

It doesn't make a lot of sense for the actions her character made outside of warping the more clear reasons that exists, damages the entire seeming intent storywise behind her actions (Including the parity with Halsey), etc

empty bloom
empty bloom
safe hawk
#

Has anyone started to read outcasts, yet?

empty bloom
#

There's a spoilered thread about it

#

I haven't, been meaning to.

safe hawk
#

I’m aware, just wanna know if people did

#

Some Cortana info in it

empty bloom
#

So I hear.

#

I've heard two completely opposite possible spoilers on the subject.

#

So.

#

I'm not gonna discuss it further but I find it weird.

dusk jetty
#

Having it be an intrinsic trait as part of her Halsey character appeals to me more, and makes more sense.

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

I am once again grousing over wanting to interview Brian Reed over it but knowing he's long gone from wanting to talk about Halo with people.

#

I would imagine any NDA he had for it has long since expired.

safe hawk
#

Reed doesn’t even use Twitter anymore

empty bloom
#

Yeah, I'm aware

#

Guy straight up got harassed off the platform by 'true fans'.

abstract wren
#

why that ?

empty bloom
#

Halo fans gonna Halo fan.

safe hawk
#

Ah yes, the true fans

#

Lmao

empty bloom
#

I heard a rumor that blackmail was involved.

dusk jetty
#

Highly intelligent. Thinking dead is the Latin translation of its name. But he can’t predict the future, he isn’t Paul Atredies, (who doesn’t really “see” the future either.) and the level of foresight he would need to eventually get Cortana to take over the galaxy is… silly.

empty bloom
#

And it's literally a reason at least one CC is now very popular.

abstract wren
#

why would they harass him, who was it ?

empty bloom
#

... We're in a conversation about Halo 5. Is that question really necessary?

#

It's like how people harassed Jar Jar Bink's actor.

safe hawk
abstract wren
#

Well, yes. Trufans did make harassment a method of choice against 343 since the beginning

empty bloom
#

Yeah, for Halo 5 it was especially bad.

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

The level significantly spiked around 5, both for real and imagined issues. A lot of people got a lot of money from views for covering how angry they were about it.

dusk jetty
safe hawk
empty bloom
#

CIA's got a burning thought.

safe hawk
#

Inb4 CIA

obsidian thistle
#

I do like how Hunt the Signal did however manage to not make it that Cortanas plan was an overnight thing!

#

And that she was planning it at the very latest prior to Halsey arriving on Infinity in Spartan Ops.

safe hawk
unique rune
#

A fair bit of the cut dialogue from Halo 4 for Cortana seems to line up oddly well with what ended up happening in Halo 5

To the extent that I wonder if that really was the plan the whole time

abstract wren
obsidian thistle
#

I do miss comics 💔

#

We are currently in the longest period that Halo has had since its last comic.

safe hawk
empty bloom
#

I'm a bit annoyed that it shadow dropped.

obsidian thistle
empty bloom
#

I know, but it's still neat.

obsidian thistle
#

Re-releases however are a good thing

unique rune
# safe hawk Was it the “mother needs us” content?

Not that in particular, I don’t think, but there’s a good chunk of cut dialogue with her being angry about how Spartans and AI are treated as disposable and replacable by the UNSC IIRC. I’d have to recheck it to be certain though.

dusk jetty
# unique rune A fair bit of the cut dialogue from Halo 4 for Cortana seems to line up oddly we...

I think it was. If you look at sequels with different plans then previous entries (Star Wars, cough) you can see disconnect in certain areas. Deleted content is a big one. JJ clearly intended Rey and Finn to be a thing, with the deleted snowspeeder chase, and then Ryan came along and did his thingy. But in halo 4 and 5, lots of deleted content line up, like the deleted dialogue. Concerning what she said about AI particularly. Just something I’ve noticed.

abstract wren
obsidian thistle
#

Its still the biggest gap we had since the CE-3 era.

abstract wren