last anchor
Still really mad that the overall death of the YA stuff with the Meridian teens means we'll never learn what it was Acheron put together, that weird plasma/ballistic DMR hybrid thing they used to save the civvies in book one.
100 round magazing firing plasma cased explosive rounds or something like that. Nasty.
vague meadow
Hello
distant estuary
So, the halos
Giant planetary rings
When alligned they are basically the death Star, but x1000 times worse
Idk how, but they got scattered throughout the universe
And the UNSC stumble into one
And when I say stumble
vague meadow
Yes, I know the lore, I was asking who else knew… if you didn’t know
distant estuary
Oh...
vague meadow
Sry if I wasn’t clear on that
distant estuary
You were not 😢
vague meadow
My bad
distant estuary
And when I say stumble
They just crashed the pillar of autumn right into it
last anchor
They just crashed the pillar of autumn right into it
The events of Halo CE were, in effect, pre-ordaned and planned for by the same race that created the Halos in the first place. The stone on Sigma Octanus IV, the ship under Reach's Bada Cath ice cap that let Cortana decypher it, the presence of the Halos and the fact that Spark let them land. All of it was part of the plan
Mind you the intention of them was FAR different than the Death Star, which was, in essence, a show piece for a military regiem that was woefully unprepared for the actual situation they found themselves in, and the result of the manipulations of a sociopathic "wizard" with an obsession with the previous capabilities of his long-dead and mostly forgotten monk-order. Whereas the Halos were intended as a combination life preserve/weapon of utmost last resort to stop quite possibly the worst threat all of reality has ever face (as the Flood at near maximum strength can quite literally bend reality as it sees fit).
Thats why they were scattered, each instillation has an effective range of 25,000 light years (give or take) so you need multiple to make absoultely 100% the galaxy is completely sentient life free.
The Autumn was crashed onto it because the other option was hold in space and get torn to ribbons by the far superior Covenant Fleet of Particular Justice in orbit around it.
lime linden
How much does a br55 cost
dusty ferry
2 microdollars
crimson grove
Hey how do y'all think the halos work ? I mean how does it specifically destroy the nervous system of an organism ?...Just curious...
obsidian thistle
Still really mad that the overall death of the YA stuff with the Meridian teens ...
Maybe the re-releases are to help guage if the series should return
orchid kettle
Still really mad that the overall death of the YA stuff with the Meridian teens ...
I still think its kinda weird that their ultimate ending is just "and then they all became Spartans"
Like, call me crazy, but I would have thought a happy ending for these characters is that they got to go out and live their dreams
Like Vic wanting to make movies
But whatever, they're soldiers for the government forever, that's the best fate any character can expect in Halo
orchid kettle
Personally I would have been fine if it ended after the first book
Sure you don't know what the MacGuffin was, but the kids have their lil adventure, and then go out and live their lives, and maybe Vic goes on to be the guy who does the Believe documentary in-universe
tropic forge
But whatever, they're soldiers for the government forever, that's the best fate ...
One of the fun theories is that they're a part of Ilsa Zane's class and died on the table.
orchid kettle
One of the fun theories is that they're a part of Ilsa Zane's class and died on ...
Yeah I think 343 forgot about that. Either that, or Zane wasn't the real original prototype
and the battleborn kids are just normal Spartan-IVs for all intents and purposes
obsidian thistle
The 2nd left some pretty big threads. Was pretty clear Scholastic and the author hoped to do more.
Its obvious that Schoolastic was hoping their AFK line of books would hit it off... then Covid happened along with other series in that line not doing as well. So the AFK line sorta vanished as a whole... leading to no third book.
Yea I actually believe the Halo books lived and died on the AFK line Scholastic did.
If AFK died, it wouldn't matter if the Halo books were the best sellers or not
Thankfully the Battle Born series is getting a second chance under S&S
If you want a third one... my only advice would be to buy the re-release and suggest others to buy the re-release! 🙂
tropic forge
Yeah I think 343 forgot about that. Either that, or Zane wasn't the *real* origi...
It might be that Zane was a prototype for a seperate battery of augmentation procedures---something separate from ORCHID altogether.
Zane being strong and fast enough that she didn't need MJOLNIR seems to be at odds with ORCHID starting out as an attempt to add limited augmentation to ONI operatives
obsidian thistle
The AFK line dying didn't just impact Halo books for those curious. It just was most notable as Halo lore peeps care, and that it was said the third was never asked for.
last anchor
If you want a third one... my only advice would be to buy the re-release and sug...
Done and done. Was hoping there'd be new stuff at the end anyway
Also the RWBY books were under it too weren't they?
obsidian thistle
A lotta horror games that Game Theory covered, Roblox, RWBY, Overwatch, gen:Lock.
Outside isolated releases and the yearly game annual thing. AFK is barely active now.
unique rune
One of the fun theories is that they're a part of Ilsa Zane's class and died on ...
Yeah, that was the big thing going through my head when I was reading the end of Meridian Divide. Like… prototype S-IV augs, uh, those kids are dead, right? But I suppose they’re supposed to be some other weird thing.
orchid kettle
Yeah, that was the big thing going through my head when I was reading the end of...
I think they're too soon to even be prototype IVs
considering they have super cancer and need the treatment as soon as possible
but the book takes place in the 2540's
obsidian thistle
I remember saying it as a joke on Halopedia and then suddenly it became half a dozen peoples headcanon.
tropic forge
I think they're too soon to even be prototype IVs
To be fair, with the Rubicon Protocol mentioning that Fireteam Shadow formed at the end "just after the final year of the SPARTAN-IV program’s experimental phase"---"Nearly ten years" before January 2560 and the fact that we know ORCHID was started circa 2550 I don't think it's that unreasonable.
tropic forge
I remember saying it as a joke on Halopedia and then suddenly it became half a d...
It's a very charmingly dark way of looking at it, especially because of the series cancellation.
obsidian thistle
It's a very charmingly dark way of looking at it, especially because of the seri...
Maybe its a lesson for me not to say stuff, as it may become headcanon for many people lol. Meddlers, the Will theory, that! My list of theory accolades grows. 
tropic forge
Maybe its a lesson for me not to say stuff, as it may become headcanon for many ...
Crackpot speculation is a time honoured tradition though, and part of the fun of being in a fandom.
obsidian thistle
Pffft I should know better however aha!
gusty star
Maybe its a lesson for me not to say stuff, as it may become headcanon for many ...
Reminds me of when HiddenXperia started saying that literally half of Africa was glassed and everyone started to believe that was actually true when it is very clearly just Hood using hyperbole
Still makes my blood boil
orchid kettle
I mean, I dunno, why would you think its hyperbole
its not like in Halo 3, we go back to Africa and everything's fine
gusty star
Africa is far too massive of a continent to have half of it’s surface glassed in what is most likely less than an hour by like 10 ships
We’ve also seen Hood use hyperbole before:
“The fleet that destroyed Reach was 50 times this size”
It’s just part of his personality
All the FoR was trying to do was contain the flood within Voi. Maybe they had to go a little bit beyond that but likely not far
Actually I just remembered how Miranda and Hood discuss destroying the city at the beginning of the mission
Yeah it’s actually crazy to me that anyone believed half of Africa was glassed
orchid kettle
I mean, I don't really see why fans wouldn't, given the tone of the original Halo trilogy.
I don't think there's a time stamp between cutscenes, and this is the same trilogy where one human ship going critical can somehow blow up a Halo Ring
Or rather-- blast it into chunks, but then a chunk flies in the direction opposite of the blast
Like-- things are very loose. I don't really see why fans would be at fault for trusting the things characters say, rather than like, calculating how much time a certain number of ships need to glass a landmass
It's also just one of those deals where the dialogue in question doesn't really make sense if Half-Jaw didnt glass a significant amount of land and innocent lives
Because then Hood wouldn't be mad at him
empty bloom
Certified Halo 3 dialogue moment.
carmine sleet
Reminds me of when HiddenXperia started saying that literally half of Africa was...
It's not the only thing Xperia said that has me annoyed. I still think about the amount of videos where he tries to make out as though something very clearly not hinting at the Flood is somehow hinting at the return of the Flood
Like cracks on a screen used to tease Halo Infinite having the Banished
empty bloom
It's always the flood with that guy.
carmine sleet
Aye
Like, it's the reason I stopped watching because all his videos on Halo seemed to always be able how something meant the Flood was returning
safe pewter
Africa is far too massive of a continent to have half of it’s surface glassed in...
To be fair, before Halo Reach came out with that one datapad that discredited it, it was accepted as true that a fleet was capable of glassing the entire surface area of a planet.
So while it has since been ret-conned, and supported by later material that that's always been a gross overstatement, at the time of H3's release there was no reason to believe Rtas didn't actually glass half of Africa. Especially since y'know, the Flood is a good reason to be paranoid to.
Always found it a bit hard to believe Gravemind would come to earth and go through the Ark portal without dropping more flood onto the planet though. Earth got awfully lucky at the last possible second there.
gilded mason
Didn't we literally go back to an area near Voi in H3's epilogue and there was no sign of glassing at all. That seemed pretty definitive that Hood was exaggerating.
tidal quarry
The Mjnor helmets were present with a system designed to dispense food and liquids to the Spartan, failing to require them to lift up there helmet or shed their armor, and about that water: Rather than pulling from a reservoir like a canteen or camelback, it instead repurposes and recycles the water excreted from that Spartan.
☹️
Though I am pleased to hear that they do not possess a solid food system repurposed from their body.
gusty star
To be fair, before Halo Reach came out with that one datapad that discredited it...
The Gravemind got to Earth after the FoR departed, so that holds no relevance to Hood’s line
carmine sleet
Didn't we literally go back to an area near Voi in H3's epilogue and there was n...
There's also a base on the edge of the excavation zone the UNSC set up to study the portal, as seen in Hunters in the Dark
pearl edge
Y'all
Do you think Noble 6 was a Head Hunter before he joined Noble team?
(Not the previous Noble 6 that died because he sacrificed himself)
dusty ferry
i personally don't believe noble 6 is a character
he/she is a fabrication by the government to inspire others
pearl edge
he/she is a fabrication by the government to inspire others
Hmm... Sounds like a good answer
dusty ferry
if they did exist, its like 90% they were a headhunter
pearl edge
if they did exist, its like 90% they were a headhunter
Yeah. Kat mentioned in Reach that Noble 6's bio was mostly blacked out
empty bloom
That's what happens when your hits mostly consist of civilian news journalists
last anchor
Heh
obsidian thistle
B312 existed. The slivers of lore we do have for him ensures he was "real". A replica of his helmet on Reach was even at Outpost Discovery.
orchid kettle
I always liked the idea that Six messed up in some way in the past, and him being reassigned to Noble was partially intended to be educational for the "lone wolf".
Makes Carter's comment about how he knows everything, even the redacted parts of Six's record, have a bit more weight
Since otherwise, its just kinda Carter telling the player they're really cool because they've done a lot of top secret stuff.
grizzled lintel
I always liked the idea that Six messed up in some way in the past, and him bein...
I thought it was that Thom's death was the reason and noble team needed a new member I think this was stated in the Halo Encyclopedia.
orchid kettle
I thought it was that Thom's death was the reason and noble team needed a new me...
No I know, I'm just saying why Six specifically instead of any other that may exist.
And you know, decisions can be made for more than one reason.
carmine sleet
It's not like Rosenda wasn't an option to assign to Noble at the time
We don't know what she was up to but they went with B312 for a reason instead
meager pier
With Epitaph being his conclusion, how do you hope they close out the Didact’s story?
desert hemlock
its been a while since I played ODST but what exactly was the significance behind the events of it? I noticed the game says that the mission they were on "could just be the most important mission of the war"
orchid kettle
its been a while since I played ODST but what exactly was the significance behin...
Its really the story of how Dare and Buck got back together-- there's not a ton that the UNSC as a whole got in terms of benefits from the mission
I guess the Engineer may have been the first captured by humanity-- except I recall them being around in First Strike on the ship that returned to Earth
abstract wren
they got one Engineer.
orchid kettle
I think it was just a case of the opening crawl hyping the game up too much
since its quite the claim that the events may be more important than any game before it
unique rune
Isn’t the opening crawl referring more to the goofy operation to drop ODSTs right onto the carrier to “save New Mombasa”?
orchid kettle
I guess if its more so "Will they be able to save Earth from Mr Regretti Spaghetti?"
that makes more sense
proven marten
is there any cannon explanation why halo two brutes and halo three brutes look so different?
unique rune
Some Brutes just look different from each other
for either cultural or just basic biological reasons
This goes for pretty much every Covenant species
proven marten
Some Brutes just look different from each other
for either cultural or just basi...
like the grunts in halo 4?
orchid kettle
is there any cannon explanation why halo two brutes and halo three brutes look s...
There's supposedly two big Brute ethnic groups
And I guess one likes being really hairy and or wearing very little armor
but I think back when Halo 3 came out, the idea may have been as simple as "The Brutes had to shave to wear their fancy new armor suits."
Since you know, they're replacing the Elites as the Prophets' right hand men
but we've since heard of armored Brutes with shields way before the events of Halo 2-3, so I guess now its just the cultural difference between these two groups
proven marten
also, there are levels in the games where like, 5 different species are all breathing the same atmosphere. how do they breathe? i know the grunts have methane packs, but all the others are just breathing the open air.
orchid kettle
It just so happens that every other race breathes Earth-like air composition just fine
proven marten
maybe the precursors built every intelligent species to have similar needs?
orchid kettle
maybe
though then it kinda begs the question why they had to do the grunts like that
honestly I just accept it as like, a way to make everything easier
like how nobody really talks about planets having varying amounts of gravity or how colonists living on them for hundreds of years would surely be shaped by said different gravity
Halo just isn't that deep in the sauce
proven marten
what if grunts were like a speciel key to something? like there DNA would unlock some ancient machine or something.
stark locust
Consider for the moment the subjugation of the Unggoy; is it a hierarchy of would-be masters and their subservient thralls, wherein tasks and services are carried out under the threat of severe thrashings or do they choose to serve out of a love born of blind adulation and an acute case of sycophantic boot-licking for the large ones?
stark locust
what if grunts were like a speciel key to something? like there DNA would unlock...
I propose that Grunts are the key to great stress-relief; such as in circumstances of the unleashing of numerous and untold fists of fury upon their wanton skulls, begging for a bionic beatdown.
empty bloom
like how nobody really talks about planets having varying amounts of gravity or ...
It does factor in engineering for that sort of environment, at times.
stark locust
Nooooo?
dusty ferry
and reach does have both slightly higher, and longer days than earth
empty bloom
this book is getting so gooood
Because I want to actually read the book properly instead of listen to it.
And I don't have it yet.
empty bloom
why is no one else talking abou it!
Wait, is it out out?
orchid kettle
People apparently have copies already, or so I've heard
empty bloom
That's problably part of why nobody's talking about it tbh
dusty ferry
is vale carrying a commando in that art?
last anchor
Holy crap it actually folded!
Also dang if I'd know it was at Comicon I would have gone
safe hawk
Halo 5 SMG with the front grip folded
Day one purchase
empty bloom
?
safe hawk
The book. The book is a day one purchase.
fair hazel
Well plasma holes and burns depending on the
tawny fox
It’s probably more like a burnt or melted area rather than a circular hole created by bullet penetration.
lament karma
except for a needle, or, I'm wrong cause they explode
carmine sleet
A single blamite shard will need pulling out, but multiple in quick succession will detonate
obsidian thistle
Blamite needs charged to even be "unstable"
proven marten
how do you "load" a needler?
orchid kettle
In Halo CE you can find chunks of blamite
so people assumed its like a Play-Doh spaghetti machine
pop open the "lid", slap the crystal chunk in there
abstract wren
blamite is only a Bungie term
orchid kettle
and the weapon just shreds it into jagged needles that get forced through the top
abstract wren
reference to Blam!
orchid kettle
The way I imagine it is that you have a store of raw material in the gun, and the in game reload animation of Chief just flicking his wrist is just the weapon making more needles
proven marten
in the halo show covenant weapons are overpowered. i think their trying to realistic?
orchid kettle
Yeah I get the vibe that Covenant weapons are generally better at killing people than Human ones are at killing aliens
abstract wren
they are not. its what they are in books, ergo in the lore
orchid kettle
Like I think we've seen stuff like somebody's leg getting vaporized below the knee because they got shot with a plasma bolt
The only thing that may make human weapons superior is potentially how fast the projectiles actually are
Im sure we've had characters mention seeing plasma bolts in flight
compared to like, a normal person not really being able to see bullets that are flying towards them
Unless you're a Spartan with a Smart AI boosting your reaction speed
abstract wren
The only thing that may make human weapons superior is *potentially* how fast th...
they are not superior
It is only desesperate measures that overcome the Covenant
proven marten
the assult rifle in halo CE has 60 rounds in a magazine. how?
proven marten
someone should make a fan game where you reenact halo battles as a marine. and plasma shots would be lethal.
scarlet quiver
Ooo yea, i loved ODST for that reason, totally different style of play as well.
How about a grunt POV?
proven marten
How about a grunt POV?
ive always dreamed of playing as a grunt.
dusk jetty
I can tell
proven marten
see enemy!
methane breathing, anger seething, game cheating, ankle teething little freaks.
empty bloom
Ooo yea, i loved ODST for that reason, totally different style of play as well.
But you were literally more durable than a Spartan in that game.
versed helm
But you were literally more durable than a Spartan in that game.
I can't remember if you're able to flip vehicles in odst, if not than that would make sense
empty bloom
I can't remember if you're able to flip vehicles in odst, if not than that would...
You can flip vehicles up to and including Scorpions in ODST.
dusty ferry
ODSTs in ODST had actual plot armor
empty bloom
except Mickey
empty bloom
I can't remember if you're able to flip vehicles in odst, if not than that would...
Also, I did mean more generally durable. You can tank a beam rifle shot in ODST on Legendary. You can't in Halo 3.
desert hemlock
if Emile survived and Noble Six left, would Noble Six be on the pillar of autumn?
if so, Noble Six had a better fate on Reach than they would have on Installation 04
manic root
There is this scifi book that was released before the halo series that won many awards titled Ringworld it has many similarities with halo the setting primarily takes place on a giant habitable ringworld built by an alien race later discovered by humans this book spawned multiple books and science fiction games that take place in the universe I bring this up because it shares a similar setting plus scifi elements to the halo series and I would like your guys opinion on it and do you think bungie or eric nylund took inspiration from this scifi universe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld
empty bloom
Welcome to the club.
spiral jewel
Where is the multi-player map Curfew (on Infinite) located? The semi-official wiki , Halopedia doesn't have an article on it.
Also , said map feels like a remake of a CE or 2 map but I'm not sure which ones..
unique rune
Curfew's location doesn't appear to be specified but it might be intended to be somewhere in Mombasa. Alternatively it's just some other human megacity with a Superintendent AI.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/community-collection-update
pale zenith
if Emile survived and Noble Six left, would Noble Six be on the pillar of autumn...
ya no need to lose 2 spartans
im guessn CE goes about the same?
maybe a bit easier for chief with noble6
desert hemlock
imagine if Noble 6 became the first flood spartan
last anchor
And how in the screaming hell are the Flood going to get to Reach
Also, Curfew? Where's that one in. Did we get a new map without warning?
Or is that one of the new ones in the Squad Slayer playlist
meager pier
@manic root It takes inspiration really just from the story being set on an artificial ring world construct, other than that, the stories don’t really bear that much of a resemblance to each other, though Microsoft was hoping Larry Niven would write the Halo to coincide with the release of CE, he declined http://bs.bungie.org/2003/03/the_halo_author_1.html#000320
manic root
@meager pier cool I appreciate the response I've known about this scifi universe for years and always wondered if bungie took big inspiration from it but never acknowledged its existence eric nylund wrote the fall of reach and it released before CE both timeline and real world release I don't know if Larry nivens book would have been better then nylunds book but it's cool to know he got an offer.
obsidian thistle
Curfew's location doesn't appear to be specified but it *might* be intended to b...
Note: Forge maps likely arent canon unless specifically said.
Its a can-o-worms that if opened causes a lotta weird stuff
@spiral jewel IE its fun to speculate, but best to assume that "at most" the locations are fake War Games ones that designers made, assuming they go that far at all!
Very few forged (canvas are canon) maps are canon or canon adjacent. And all are Halo 5 based. 2 are even unplayable in Halo 5 anymore as they predated maps getting added properly to the game, and one was given lore last year.
(There is a weird oddity tied to map lore however, while the Halo 5 Griffball court hasnt been said to be canon... the description made a community member canon aha!)
For those curious! https://www.halopedia.org/Nokyard
distant socket
Is it implied the dropship that infected infinite succor may have been the dropship near the flood containment facility?
obsidian thistle
I believe that was the intent yes
Actually did a tweet on that which compares the ground shots
Its a minor retcon to having it fly off while he is fighting the Covenant but that might have been out of scope for CE at the time.
last anchor
Its part of the map landscape isnt it?
stark locust
ive always dreamed of playing as a grunt.
I have wanted to play as a Grunt for a long, long, long, lengthy, extended, prolonged, extensive, interminable, protracted time-period. Why don't they make a Grunt game? They made a Gollum game that apparently fell flat on its hideous little face, but a Grunt game, DONE RIGHT, would surely succeed! The ability emote and speak/shriek would go a long way in ensuring that!
pale zenith
I have wanted to play as a Grunt for a long, long, long, lengthy, extended, prol...
I’d love a firefight versus mode
Playable Grunts
Jackals etc
scarlet quiver
My god, just to get more grunt dialog.
I need a grunt podcast to get me through my chores.
sharp shard
Ya, we need the communications tower grunt as a podcast
meager fable
Okay guys here is my hot take
Carter's death was easily preventable
In the 1940's, experimental remote controlled airplanes were a thing
and on Reach it was 2552
so even after 609 years and they still don't use remote controlled pelicans
unique rune
And what would Carter do in that case? Limp to the Pillar of Autumn, slowing down A239 and B312, and dying somewhere along the way?
light tartan
What do you think is better, Spartan II Mark V armor or Spartan III Mark VI
surreal glen
The higher the Mark the better the armor
empty bloom
What do you think is better, Spartan II Mark V armor or Spartan III Mark VI
Depends on the Spartan, depends on the subvariant, depends on the fight.
grim echo
I've always wondered this, why doesn't the spirit of fire have odst's on deck?
dusty ferry
They do?
grim echo
ok maybe I'm just having a blurry memory
unique rune
The Spirit has 1000 ODSTs stationed on board.
And uh.
There's that whole thing with Cutter having them as a unique Leader thing in both games.
grim echo
looking back at the cutscenes I expected a few odsts to show
grim echo
The *Spirit* has 1000 ODSTs stationed on board.
And uh.
There's that whole thin...
oh alright, thanks
unique rune
Oh and also an entire story DLC focused on one of the Spirit's ODST units lol
Somehow forgot that one
grim echo
is that for halo wars 1 or 2?
unique rune
2
grim echo
I see
grim echo
also one more thing, how does the spirit of fire still have a well enough crew to fight off atriox
like didn't he lose half of the crew in halo wars
grim echo
https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_Wars_2:_Operation:_SPEARBREAKER
oh nice
empty bloom
like didn't he lose half of the crew in halo wars
Plot armor's a hell of a drug
dusk jetty
I would like to say that Cutter and the SOF had better strategy, and beat the banished at their own game (Guerilla warfare) but the honest truth is just plot armor
fair hazel
Infinity was also caught by surprise by a fleet of ships
pale zenith
Carter's death was easily preventable
Idk maybe it was damaged too badly
(To use remote kamikaz)
dark steppe
I had a question for any huge lore nerds in the server, how many Spartans in total died on Reach?
barren spade
I had a question for any huge lore nerds in the server, how many Spartans in tot...
I'm no nerd but a good guess is 3
Carter, Kat and Jorge
empty bloom
I had a question for any huge lore nerds in the server, how many Spartans in tot...
Let's see...
So not counting possible IVs (Or any other unknown Spartan personnel, as SIII personnel have operated on the Infinity before) who died during the events of Shadows of Reach nearly a decade later, 30 confirmed Spartans have died on Reach.
dark steppe
Wait, there were Spartans who went back to reach only a decade later? Wouldn’t reach still be a wasteland due to its glassing at that point in time?
empty bloom
Wait, there were Spartans who went back to reach only a decade later? Wouldn’t r...
Yes!
But there was something important on the world.
So Blue Team and the Infinity's Spartan compliment were sent to secure those assets and silence the Banished presence on Reach so the mission could succeed.
empty bloom
Wait, there were Spartans who went back to reach only a decade later? Wouldn’t r...
So yes, it was absolutely a wasteland, but much like Meridian Station in Halo 5, the UEG's corporate elite had plans for Reach that involved making it truly habitable again; And the Infinity's compliment of Spartans and Blue team had a vested interest in securing military assets for the conflict at Zeta Halo, before that went belly up.
These events are explained in detail in Shadows of Reach.
dark steppe
Oh, I think I’ve heard about that part with blue team actually, they went there to secure frozen copy’s of Halsey’s mind and memories, is that right?
From her old lab?
empty bloom
Correct.
The Infinity's regular Spartan contingent was sent down to secure local nuclear weaponry stockpiles and support Blue Team's exfiltration.
dark steppe
I would’ve thought everything that was on reach was destroyed basically right after noble 6’s death. That’s really cool to know reach still played such an important part in the story even after it’s fall
empty bloom
Well, Reach actually already played a significant part in Halo history even after Installation 04's destruction, as it's the first place Chief and the I04 survivors went.
Where they regrouped with the remaining Spartan IIs (That were present on Reach), Halsey, and some others.
Reach in general was a hugely important world.
dark steppe
I see, I’ll definitely have to check out shadows of reach then to see what happened
empty bloom
It's a good book!
dark steppe
I’ve been playing halo for years but only recently I’ve gotten a bit more into the lore and I love it
empty bloom
I'd also check out Rubicon Protocol. It explains a lot of why the situation for the UNSC was so dire at Zeta Halo and provides a lot of insight into how Spartan IVs operate.
dark steppe
At Zeta halo, I’d imagine that losing the infinity like that was a huge blow to the UNSC’s armaments
Because didn’t they also have another AI on there? I think they called it Ross or something like that? It was yellow and it wore an old timey pilot outfit I think
empty bloom
Roland.
Though it doesn't actually go into a ton of depth about the actual Infinity's loss; It's more about the ground situation where Halo Infinite takes place.
Also, if you played Spartan Ops, a character from the latter half of that shows up.
dark steppe
Oh, I’ve played those years ago I think. What’s the name of the character that shows up?
empty bloom
TJ Murphy.
He's the guy who pilots the Phantom, then Pelican, with the southern US accent.
dark steppe
Oh, sadly I don’t remember him, guess I’ll have to replay those at some point
Also, is there any lore book or comic or anything like that where we can see more about Cortana’s defeat? I feel like that part wasn’t too heavily focused on in infinite
I was just sitting there wondering how she went from controlling the guardians to being deleted by her own copy
empty bloom
Also, is there any lore book or comic or anything like that where we can see mor...
Uh... Well, sadly, we don't have a lot on that yet.
There's background lore on Halo waypoint, but...
Not a ton.
dark steppe
Ah, that’s unfortunate, hopefully we’ll get more information on that in the future then!
gusty star
Also, is there any lore book or comic or anything like that where we can see mor...
This video honestly clarified a lot for me
dusk jetty
Mendicant in the halo 3 terminals mentions some sort of software that “doesn’t want me talking to you.” Why this is isn’t present on 07, especially knowing what is contained there, is beyond any of my knowledge.
thorn monolith
Mendicant in the halo 3 terminals mentions some sort of software that “doesn’t w...
Sure it wasn’t tragic solitude?
dusk jetty
Tragic solitude is the monitor of the ark? The terminal in halo 3, the one written directly to you is by mendicant
I’ll check Halopedia
“To player:
The daemons are not taking a kind view of your presence here. They don’t want me speaking to you.”
That’s what mendicant says after he shuts down terminal 5 and redirects you. So it was mendicant who said it.
carmine sleet
That's likely just Tragic Solitude trying to stop Mendicant Bias, doubt it's some sort of software
main merlin
What's the creepiest thing in lore?
I think is plasma/needleer weapons
Thats a brutal way to die
pale zenith
What's the creepiest thing in lore?
keyes being interrogated by flood
dusk jetty
I’d say Neural physics along with some aspects of the flood
Particularly Wallace Jenkins and his fate
frosty bear
How many planets did humanity have at the end of the human covenant war?
tropic forge
How many planets did humanity have at the end of the human covenant war?
We don't know, but they were down to a "few dozen" colonies just before Reach--keeping in mind that colony can be everything from a planet to a mining base in an asteroid.
empty bloom
That's partially on purpose, mind.
You want to avoid hard numbers of sprawl in fictional universes because people who aren't paid to think about that sort of problem but have an abundance of free time will obsess over your numbers being wrong.
frosty bear
Did any planets other then earth survive, or was it pretty much earth and random small colonies?
tropic forge
Did any planets other then earth survive, or was it pretty much earth and random...
There are at least a couple other planets that survived, like Losing Hand.
I can't remember if I can post links here or not, but...
Might be helpful.
frosty bear
Thanks man, there seems to be a staggering amount of untouched planets compared to what I was expecting
orchid kettle
Thanks man, there seems to be a staggering amount of untouched planets compared ...
Yeah for a while they would repeat the idea that the Outer Colonies were just all gone by a certain point
But given how scattered and relatively isolated the outer colonies were to begin with, it did always seem strange to think that the Covenant somehow knew to eliminate them first
and then and only then start to move onto the inner colonies
since you knew, I would assume human space branched out in every possible direction, with colonies becoming more spread out the further you got from Earth
and somehow the Covenant don't realize that pattern
void nimbus
How did the storytelling in Halo 5-6 get so bad?
The novels remain great
They continue to capture the magic of games 1-reach
Why aren't those authors writing the game?
Profits from novels are nothing compared to DLC
Why not hire the same novelists to write story content for the game and have your dev team focus on building what they write
obsidian thistle
Authors for books don't often translate to writers for games.
They are different mediums that have different ways to do stuff.
dusty ferry
and somehow the Covenant don't realize that pattern
thats kind of because weird slipspace stuff. Technically, Harvest is super close in real space to earth, but takes like a year to get to using conventional human slipspace drives. That probably has to do with the "slipspace currents" or something.
source: Halo warfleet
orchid kettle
thats kind of because weird slipspace stuff. Technically, Harvest is super close...
Yeah, honestly I would have just retconned Harvest to a star system more fitting of its position as "humanity's furthest flung colony"
I don't think anyone is really all that invested in it orbiting Epsilon Indi specifically
dusty ferry
it makes slipspace more interesting than most FTL systems in sci fi though
orchid kettle
I don't think so, personally
orchid kettle
Of course, I can't help but see the motivation as an attempt to cover up a mistake, rather than like trying to make the FTL system more mysterious
Compared to like, the idea that sometimes slipspace drive technicians just disappear and nobody is sure where they went
Like in theory, the idea of a planet being super close to Earth, but humanity having no way to reach it because there's so much quantum entanglement mumbo jumbo around it sounds cool
But that's just not how Harvest's explanation is used
obsidian thistle
Kinda wish 343i had a more solid grip on irl =/= Halo universe when that lore was given lol
orchid kettle
It's just an excuse, not really something that's building up intrigue. Like, we're probably not gonna find out that Harvest had an ancient Slipspace Tangler device that made it so you could only find the planet via a very specific entry vector
obsidian thistle
I think the idea of it came from the issue irl the systems make it closer than expected.
Irl has been ignored for a whole load of other systems since that however.
But back when it wasnt a solid thing. They tried to explain it away
This lead to a cool idea however at the expense of stuff
orchid kettle
That's why I say the retcon should have just been either "Nah, its a different star" or "In Halo, Epsilon Indi is just way further away than we thought in the 21st century."
obsidian thistle
I mean I still am for the idea slipspace makes stuff like that weird. 😀
And we may never have gotten a good example of it without this.
BUT I will say it is a shame at the same time as 343i have opted to ignore irl stuff since then. Leaving that as a relic of a time since gone
dusty ferry
I mean I still am for the idea slipspace makes stuff like that weird. 😀
the star trek nerd in me likes the wackyness
orchid kettle
I feel like we had ways to make slipspace weird before that
Like muh time traveling crystal controlling fate, or asteroids just hanging out in slipspace
Or as mentioned, the idea that people too close to slipspace drives while they were in use just disappeared
obsidian thistle
Ultimately speaking be glad Halo doesn't use irl stuff nowadays lol. Planets such as the ones in Reachs system... well dont match up at all LOL
meager pier
BUT I will say it is a shame at the same time as 343i have opted to ignore irl s...
What rl stuff have they ignored?
orchid kettle
I think he means no longer using real world star systems
meager pier
Ahhh, it's a shame, wish they were used more, cool way to make it feel closer to home (metaphorically speaking 😁 )
orchid kettle
I guess its just a way to future proof the franchise
gonna be real awkward when we really do go to Epsilon Eridani and there's no Reach
obsidian thistle
Its not called Reach irl
Systems often dont use irl system layouts
Or even names where applicable
meager pier
Its not called Reach irl
We should buy the planet irl and rename it Reach
obsidian thistle
But in general ever wondered why they stopped saying distance when irl systems are even mentioned anymore
Its just very uncommon nowadays
meager pier
Speaking of using real star systems in fiction, wasn't a real system used in Alien?
obsidian thistle
A lotta cool stuff there
Plus the more fighters and space craft we get. The closer we get to a Halo: Starfighter game actually making it due to a wider assortment of craft to use!
dusty ferry
Real question is why that fighter isn’t named after a sword
unique rune
You'd have to ask Bungie about that one
dusty ferry
they probably just hadn't figured out the naming convention by then
obsidian thistle
Dont need to name everything after a sword!
boreal bane
Alex I love you for this 😂
unique rune
The sword naming thing pretty much didn't really exist at the time
Since I think it was really only between the Longsword fighter-bomber and Shortsword bomber
And the Sabre would've been the next thing to really cement it
Pegasus seems to have been an early development name for the Reach version of the strike fighter idea so 343 just kept that for its digsite restoration
obsidian thistle
Alex I love you for this 😂
I remember seeing ||Barbie|| and making a similar post on the Halopedia Twitter xD
obsidian thistle
Pegasus seems to have been an early development name for the Reach version of th...
I will say never hurts regardless
More fighters = Better times ahead for stuff
abstract wren
So the Gorgon is a heavy destroyer. @obsidian thistle I see that in Halopedia you consider the ship of the same name (but a frigate) were Lowell served to be an error ? What are the argument for that ?
obsidian thistle
So the Gorgon is a heavy destroyer. <@228305216611549196> I see that in Haloped...
The 2011 Encyclopedia linked both sources together.
So the Evolutions Gorgon is the TFoR Gorgon
abstract wren
The 2011 Encyclopedia linked both sources together.
but CdR is telling its a frigate. Timing is awkward too
obsidian thistle
I will say the 2010/11/19 versions of TFoR call it a Destroyer. 🙂
The pre-Evolutions releases call it a Frigate.
Had to check that up
obsidian thistle
I aint twisting the citation. It was changed in the DE releases of TFoR
abstract wren
I'm saying you're twisting the source, not the citation...
obsidian thistle
That says frigate in older versions of the book.
abstract wren
And not CdR, Ency2011
The destroyer was last seen in 2502. Lowell might have joined in 2535. Thats a long time especially with the War
Again, not to mention sources does not retcon something. its just different. Only link is "is was in a fleet of Cole"
obsidian thistle
I will however counter. If it wasnt intended to be the same ship. Why would they change the TFoR text to suit?
abstract wren
I will however counter. If it wasnt intended to be the same ship. Why would they...
what changes ?
obsidian thistle
Changing the UNSC Gorgon from a frigate (2001, 2003) to a destroyer (2010, 2011, 2019)
abstract wren
Changing the UNSC Gorgon from a frigate (2001, 2003) to a destroyer (2010, 2011,...
what ?
In what edition ?
obsidian thistle
The 2001 and 2003 editions of The Fall of Reach (potentially more) call the ship a frigate.
The 2010, 2011, 2019 Definite Editions (any with the Adjunct at the end essentially) call it a destroyer.
abstract wren
wtf ?? How could the translation keep this from the 2003 edition ??
trad de m* ...
You should add this info and change to the Halopedia page then.
obsidian thistle
The important part is that the most up to date version of The Fall of Reach calls the UNSC Gorgon a destroyer.
While older versions called it a frigate. This effective is retconned out with the definitive edition.
abstract wren
Wait, there is a 2003 edition ? What is the ISBN ? Is it with Del Rey
abstract wren
The important part is that the most up to date version of The Fall of Reach call...
there is no up to date version in French, the 2013 is the up to date (well there might be a republished version, but it doesnt smell that good... the front cover is saying its from the TV series)
and that its brand new + used "Master Chief", but not in the 4th cover...
Its supposed to be a retrad, not just a republication too (because the publisher is now on YA hard romance novels)
obsidian thistle
Yea I will conceid one thing! XD
Its "possible" that they are different destroyers. But I personally dont see 343i saying X is different from Y without a good reason.
abstract wren
Anyway, thanks for the clarification. There is a lot to do
abstract wren
You should add this info and change to the Halopedia page then.
don't know if you saw that. But its important
obsidian thistle
Like if they werent meant to be the same... why change it in The Fall of Reach re-releases.
Oh I agree
I intend to cite that older versions called it a Frigate
abstract wren
Wait, there is a 2003 edition ? What is the ISBN ? Is it with Del Rey
up
obsidian thistle
Halo box Set release
abstract wren
so its just a reasort, not a republication (same ISBN individually) ?
obsidian thistle
I'll need to check in a few days unfortunately. But that version did get a text update. Its the most notable thing about that release really.
abstract wren
I'll need to check in a few days unfortunately. But that version did get a text ...
if there is a text update, then it must have a new ISBN because its considered a republication of a new book
obsidian thistle
I'll get that that later in a few days! 🙂 (likely when I get home)
But alas it factors very little into the discussion as back then it was considered a frigate still.
I believe the update was one of those fixes the definitive editions did to account for newer lore
A very sly one
But shows someone thought about it aha
dark steppe
Question for anyone, why do we never see a lot of in game stuff on spartan 3’s? It seems that between halo 3 and 4 we just kinda jumped to spartan 4’s without any question
Unless maybe there was a game with spartan 3’s and I’m just getting confused?
orchid kettle
Unless maybe there was a game with spartan 3’s and I’m just getting confused?
Noble is mainly IIIs in Reach, and presumably the briefly mentioned "Gauntlet" and "Echo" teams are as well
dark steppe
Noble team was spartan 3’s? I had no idea, I thought they were spartan 2’s
orchid kettle
though otherwise its because the IIIs were even more secretive than IIs. While IIs would later on become the centerpiece of UNSC propaganda, IIIs were largely disposable suicide soldiers whose sacrifices would never be appreciated
Noble is just made up of IIIs who were so cool that the UNSC decided they could have the same MJOLNIR armor as the IIs, and essentially function as additional II teams
and got to be more than just suicide soldiers
dark steppe
Would that make spartan 4’s even worse suicide soldiers?
Or are they more powerful than a 3?
orchid kettle
Nah, IVs are essentially what the Spartan-Is were supposed to be
adult volunteers who were just really cool military peeps
as opposed to children raised from a young age to be killing machines, like the IIs and IIIs
orchid kettle
Or are they more powerful than a 3?
Putting aside the question of like, how much any of them can lift
Its generally believed that IIs are better soldiers because of their childhood training and indoctrination
as well as the wealth of experience they gained throughout the Covenant War
Any surviving III would be seen in a similar light, but they're younger than IIs
so naturally, less experience and all that
dark steppe
Gotcha, that makes sense
orchid kettle
IIIs may also be a lil unhinged, or at least, more likely to display aggressive tendencies
as you know, the UNSC envisioned them as suicide soldiers
and if anything, thought the ferocity would mean they would just kill more Covenant before being killed themselves
dark steppe
So they were probably raised to think that their lives were meaningless?
orchid kettle
compared to Halsey paying a lot of attention to the II children's disposition and personality to make sure they were right for the program
orchid kettle
So they were probably raised to think that their lives were meaningless?
Oh they don't KNOW they're suicide soldiers
Thats the fun
These kids think they're gonna be superheroes, and kill the bad guys who destroyed their homes
orchid kettle
but whoops, one day, a mission is just weirdly tough, and they all perish
unique rune
well I mean S-II and -III are both horrifying any time you give them any thought
fair hazel
The IIIs are expendable heroes
orchid kettle
Oh god that’s horrifying
There's a line in Ghosts of Onyx
unique rune
“well gang we gotta brainwash these children into death machines, maybe accidentally kill or cripple a few along the way”
dark steppe
Did noble team know the truth about spartan 3’s since as stated earlier they’re about as close to a 2 you can get without being a 2? Or were they still left in the dark as well?
dark steppe
Dang, so that means Halsey was completely cool with her own child being a suicide soldier and not telling him
orchid kettle
"Huh, wild how both Alpha and Beta Company all died. Im sure there's nothing weird about that though."
fair hazel
halsey didnt have an involvement with the IIIs
unique rune
Jorge is not Halsey’s son
dark steppe
Jorge is not Halsey’s son
WHAT
orchid kettle
Don't ask me why he's on Noble
dark steppe
Jorge actually IS a II
WHAT
fair hazel
Though halsey regarded the spartan-IIs as her children
orchid kettle
he just is
dark steppe
Is Jorge the only 2 on noble team?
gilded mason
Yes
fair hazel
i enjoyoed the story with rosenda and thom
unique rune
Bungo should’ve just made them a team of S-IIs since they were just making things up about Reach anyway
fair hazel
They shouldnt have treid to change the canon
orchid kettle
Bungo should’ve just made them a team of S-IIs since they were just making thing...
I kinda dig the idea of the CAT-IIs
lets people make their spartan ocs in troves without having to try and justify their character as a II
with their increasingly convoluted confirmed members
fair hazel
not into CAT-IIs personalyl
unique rune
I don’t mind Cat-IIs, I just think Noble’s mixed composition is stupid
dark steppe
What’s a CAT-II?
orchid kettle
What’s a CAT-II?
A III that's so cool that they're allowed to dress and be deployed like a II
usually IIIs get the weaker SPI armor
unique rune
well
technically they're S-III candidates with genetic markers that match up with those required for S-II candidates
orchid kettle
Why’re they called CAT-II’s?
Uh, I don't remember lol
unique rune
basically it's because "if we were still doing S-II, we would've picked them for S-II"
orchid kettle
well
*technically* they're S-III candidates with genetic markers that match up w...
343 has apparently changed this to just be IIIs that have displayed exemplary skill
empty bloom
not into CAT-IIs personalyl
I think it should be recharacterized as a mindset versus a genetic thing.
Or mindset versus skill
fair hazel
I mean the OG, second generation spartan-IIs
orchid kettle
Or at least, that's what I heard
dark steppe
So why didn’t they just make them into spartan 2’s?
unique rune
because S-II is bad and expensive
empty bloom
Spartan II augs were, in some respects, inferior by that point.
It's worth noting that III augs weren't necessarily worse, but rather just safer.
orchid kettle
So why didn’t they just make them into spartan 2’s?
Funny enough, the first batch of IIIs may have been intended to be the second batch of Spartan IIs
unique rune
it costs a lot and has like a 50% chance of killing someone who still has the right genetic markers
orchid kettle
but Halsey's rival, Ackerson, snatched them up first
and thus-- no candidates for class II
and Halsey got fed up and shelved the project
while Ackerson kept trucking
empty bloom
I actually find it funny how Halo deconstructed the 'super prototype' concept, but everyone treats said surviving super prototypes as being a runaway success story when in-universe it got canned for a very good reason.
unique rune
S-III augmentations were simply better
orchid kettle
S-III augmentations were simply better
They were a very tasty super serum
that for some reason turns your eyes blue
dark steppe
because S-II is bad and expensive
Why is it bad and expensive if they know someone like the master chief could come out of it?
orchid kettle
according to that one Reach commercial
unique rune
Because they could get the same results with S-III augmentations
dark steppe
Is it just because of the new augments?
orchid kettle
Why is it bad and expensive if they know someone like the master chief could com...
Chief had 74 other friends
unique rune
S-III augmentations work just as well without killing/crippling half your candidates
empty bloom
Why is it bad and expensive if they know someone like the master chief could com...
Because you're still butchering 50% of your candidates so maybe they could have some that turn out as good as, well, Emile.
empty bloom
Chief's actually a wild exception among Spartans because most simply weren't so damn unkillable even after augs.
gilded mason
Chief had 74 other friends
but master chief hyper lethal
empty bloom
but master chief hyper lethal
You know who else is hyper lethal?
gilded mason
me
empty bloom
Nah
unique rune
though the numbers get sillier each year because of all the things about rehabilitating and reaugmenting some of the washouts and ughhhhhhh
orchid kettle
IIIs also were not trained for as long
empty bloom
Elites can't be hyper lethal
gilded mason
wow
empty bloom
though the numbers get sillier each year because of all the things about rehabil...
I honestly hated the washout thing.
orchid kettle
so they made more IIIs, made them faster, and made them safer
empty bloom
It feels like a copout.
gilded mason
though the numbers get sillier each year because of all the things about rehabil...
Yeah. It makes it feel...I dunno, weird?
orchid kettle
unfortunately they also gave them cheaper armor
Unless they were cool
then they got the big boy clothes
unique rune
It kinda lessens the impact of what S-II was when they can just go "oh nah they were okay all along"
gilded mason
Yeah
empty bloom
I feel like that's kind of a mischaracterization of SPI, considering it's still a semi-powered armor that is leagues better than ODST BDUs.
orchid kettle
It kinda lessens the impact of what S-II was when they can just go "oh nah they ...
Remember Soren's tragic tale?
gilded mason
I feel like that's kind of a mischaracterization of SPI, considering it's still ...
That camo is OP
empty bloom
That camo is OP
Oh, I'm not even talking about the camo.
orchid kettle
What an idiot-- dude should have waited a couple years and Halsey could have fixed him
gilded mason
lmao
empty bloom
I'm talking about its sheer defensive capabilities.
gilded mason
Ye
empty bloom
Like, the camo helps, yeah, but the plating itself tanked a II in Mark V(I?) palm-heeling it.
fair hazel
Gen 3 Camo!
empty bloom
And it was known to tank plasma better than ODST plate, which already apparently can once you dismiss the weirdness of some of early Halo novels.
unique rune
Now how do I get 1000toys to make a Mirage IIC figure...
empty bloom
But yeah even regular Halo 4/5 era Marine plate can tank a plasma bolt or two.
orchid kettle
while Holly got turned into a stain on the floor
fair hazel
There's been over 900 spartan-IIIs
empty bloom
I mean they need to get said plate off like, right away but still
empty bloom
There's been over 900 spartan-IIIs
TBH that's kinda why I laugh when people think there's only about 1K IVs
orchid kettle
I think there's less
empty bloom
My ballpark's gonna remain around 3K-10K trending high until I hear otherwise directly
orchid kettle
unique rune
There are at least two Spartan-IVs
Maybe even three
empty bloom
That's still a tiny fraction of ODSTs in numbers alone
Like, for being 'special forces', ODSTs really are as ubiquitous as hydrogen.
orchid kettle
That's still a tiny fraction of ODSTs in numbers *alone*
10k is not a tiny fraction
empty bloom
Small?
orchid kettle
Like, as far as we know, there's 3-4 divisions of ODSTs
and a division is 10k give or take
empty bloom
I've heard quite a few people calc ODST numbers as being just over or around a mill.
As their low estimates.
dusty ferry
do you have a link to that
orchid kettle
I've heard quite a few people calc ODST numbers as being just over or around a m...
Why
dusty ferry
because i remember us calcing out Spartan IVs to like 6k ish
fair hazel
Total Available Military Manpower: 385,421,100
Total Land Assets: 58,430
Total Naval Assets: 1,209 (T); 75 (X)
Total Air Assets: 11,050
empty bloom
because i remember us calcing out Spartan IVs to like 6k ish
I'm calcing IVs based off of production numbers from actual IV data, so I have no idea where they got a mill from. Either way.
But I was guessing anywhere between 60K to a mill. Which is a huge discrepency, but like... It's Halo.
This stuff ain't got hard numbers.
orchid kettle
Lil fun fact-- in Fall of Reach, Nylund attributes the "Helljumper" moniker and trademark entry method to the 105th alone
dusty ferry
Total Available Military Manpower: 385,421,100
Total Land Assets: 58,430
Total N...
man, i wish i understood what those numbers mean
orchid kettle
that got quickly retconned tho
fair hazel
im fine with that retock
empty bloom
Total Available Military Manpower: 385,421,100
Total Land Assets: 58,430
Total N...
Is this the full UNSC?
empty bloom
So just Reach?
fair hazel
yeah
empty bloom
Well, that's a pretty big stick.
fair hazel
The whole "we dont have anymore nukes" is an eyeroller for me
It's just ONI wanting to keep the LONS alive for operation red flag
orchid kettle
The whole "we dont have anymore nukes" is an eyeroller for me
I think Nylund actually says the same thing one of the books
empty bloom
IIRC Nuclear weaponry production is actually straight up how we get certain elements in a useable quantity. Don't quote me on that, though.
orchid kettle
Oh right, in GoO, Blue Team is trying to recover FENRIS warheads from some Innies with Kurt
because the UNSC was already running low
orchid kettle
and they needed every last warhead
empty bloom
Somehow they were running out after 25 years of knowing they were using them all the time.
fair hazel
Deprive Innies of nukes, gain nukes
empty bloom
Either the Covvies got lucky and blew up all of the relevant fissile material mining colonies first, or the UNSC is just stupid.
I'm banking on the latter at this point, tbh.
fair hazel
demand vs production
surreal glen
What do Covenant and Forerunner vehicles use as fuel?
orchid kettle
Somehow they were running out after 25 years of knowing they were using them all...
The Blue Team mission with Kurt is like 2530 or 2531
empty bloom
If you have a literal 500+ strong colony system and you're fighting a war that mandates the deployment of 10+ nuclear mines per battle, you really have nobody to blame but your own sheer incompetence when your production can't match it.
empty bloom
The Blue Team mission with Kurt is like 2530 or 2531
Maybe they just run out every Tuesday. Halo's Lockheed Martin must be eating well.
dusty ferry
"dang, we out of nukes again jim. Put it on the grocery list"
empty bloom
I'd say Raytheon, but it seems only Boeing, Honeywell Int., Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman make nuclear delivery systems now.
Genuinely surprised Raytheon doesn't.
orchid kettle
The whole "we dont have anymore nukes" is an eyeroller for me
I mean honestly-- I don't think the UNSC has any nuke besides a NOVA that can take out the LNOS
at least not unless it swallows up the corvette
fair hazel
space nukes and ODPs
fair hazel
You do remember the UNSC has specialized space nuclear weapons right?
orchid kettle
I mean, did they in 2010
fair hazel
but ONI wanted the LNOS
those things weren't thought out yet but in canon still exist
orchid kettle
Wouldn't a "special space nuke" also just be like
an asteroid with a nuke tied to it
and you just let the fragments do the work
orchid kettle
at least, thats what happens in Impossible Life and Possible Death of Preston J Cole
dusty ferry
Halo warfleet
i can fact check this if you remember which page had it
like generally
fair hazel
nuclear-pumped x-ray laser
orchid kettle
Im still annoyed that plasma torpedoes got retconned to be actual physical projectiles
fair hazel
and Casaba-howitzer type shaped-charge warheads
dusty ferry
nuclear-pumped x-ray laser
yeah, this is stated to be how space nukes work
the nuke powers either a laser, or "shaped plasma lance"
presulably, that means its an effective plasma weapon in the same way the covenant had antimatter bombs, but couldn't make an antimatter beam weapon
orchid kettle
But yeah-- its written to make Kat seem smart for coming up with a way to destroy the LNoS in one fell swoop
even though all things considered, opening up a worm hole to rip the ship in half seems like the only way the UNSC could have taken the massive ship down
at least in terms of things you can strap to a pelican
The scene wouldn't really be changed that much if they just rewrote it to include someone saying "Normal nuclear weapons won't work on that thing."
fair hazel
Enough firepower eventually would technically
but the data drops say that they wanted the LONS taken
empty bloom
The scene wouldn't really be changed that much if they just rewrote it to includ...
That'd honestly sound like Halo 3 tier writing to me.
And I say that as someone who just plain doesn't think Reach's writing is all that good.
orchid kettle
That'd honestly sound like Halo 3 tier writing to me.
I mean, I dunno what to tell ya. That's generally how Halo works. Nukes detonated outside a ship have a hard time dealing with its shields in space.
Like, sure, maybe they can stock an Albatross with as many HAVOKS as you can fit, and get as many Albatrosses as the Corvette could hold
dusty ferry
That'd honestly sound like Halo 3 tier writing to me.
just curious how do you rank the writing of the games?
orchid kettle
But its not really that creative or communicates that much about the characters' intellect that well
empty bloom
just curious how do you rank the writing of the games?
Whew, that's a can of worms.
orchid kettle
(Which yes, is why I wasn't a big fan of when Denning had Chief start throwing out super explosive cubes to blow up a bunch of Wraiths in Shadows of Reach)
empty bloom
I think ODST and 4 are the two best written Halo plotlines.
And I think 3 is hands-down the absolute worst written.
Everything else is just kind of... There, in the middle.
orchid kettle
or honestly for that matter, when he gave everyone depleted uranium rounds and it allowed them to solve 90% of their problems by just shooting their guns
empty bloom
The silli fletchettes in Kelly's shotgun
dusty ferry
man, shadows of reach sounds fun
empty bloom
It's honestly not bad
It's just, y'know, not great
but then, I have a serious dislike for most Master Chief related novels at this point thanks to a certain very quiet bout of inclement weather, so perhaps I'm biased.
orchid kettle
man, shadows of reach sounds fun
well, only because Im not mentioning how the entire book is walking from Point A to Point B, and there's not really that many twists or turns along the way
Chief's objective is to make it to Castle Base
and that sure is the whole book
empty bloom
I feel like knowing what sort of zany combat hijinks Taurus got up to would've been cool.
orchid kettle
Which is kinda the same plot structure as Denning's previous Chief story, Oblivion
empty bloom
Y'know, before they all just kinda died
orchid kettle
Where Chief and friends needed to walk to a thing in a desert wasteland
And they found some natives and allied with them
and thats kinda it as far as narrative developments go
dusty ferry
but then, I have a serious dislike for most Master Chief related novels at this ...
is this something specific, or ust personal taste
empty bloom
Yes.
orchid kettle
I think there's good reason to not like the Denning Chief books.
They can kinda have the problem with not being about Blue Team
but just happening to feature them
And I honestly question why bother making more books about them
If you're not really willing to explore them in any meaningful capacity
I know Chief has been on a bazillion missions
But I dont gotta see every last one
empty bloom
I really just dislike emphasizing IIs at this point when there's an entire duo of Spartan Gens with far more interesting lives and far more interesting variability on offer.
Like, holy hell, write a freaking Madsen book where it shows that he earned his place as a IV despite only being initially chosen due to nepotism. I don't care.
It's still better than another 300 pages of "Spartan John Chief shot his gun in somewhere significant to the plot nowadays through stretched call-forwards"
orchid kettle
I really just dislike emphasizing IIs at this point when there's an *entire* duo...
I do find it funny that the CAT-IIs were already a concept that would have allowed 343 to add more MJOLNIR-clad Spartans into Halo's history
but then they made up the thing about washouts being rehabilitated instead
and only really used the CAT-IIs for like-- Owen in Battleborn
empty bloom
TBF, Halo Wars started that ball before 343i grabbed it.
Hell, give us another book about freaking Kodiak.
dusty ferry
but then they made up the thing about washouts being rehabilitated instead
it makes sense though. you already had years of training, and presumably got better given the IIIs had no major failures
empty bloom
Explain why Miller is actually the best Spartan IV ever.
I'd buy a book about Miller twice.
dusty ferry
Or you know, a book about the fracture timelines you just made up
instead of releasing a book called halo fractures which has literally nothing to do with that concept
empty bloom
Just go full 80s-90s 'barely coordinated fanfiction' route, like Star Wars
orchid kettle
I hate fractures
empty bloom
instead of releasing a book called halo fractures which has literally nothing to...
TBF, again, Fractures was years before Infinite.
orchid kettle
Mainly just because of how many entries were prologues or chapter 1's of other products
Felt like I paid 20 bucks to be advertised at
Some entries are real standalone short stories, and those are great
dusty ferry
TBF, again, Fractures was years before Infinite.
fractures was introduced in MCC series 8
empty bloom
Sobs in just wanting more Created gilded cage entries
dusty ferry
then again, i have no idea when fractures was released
orchid kettle
but man, Im kinda over Halo books hinting at more Halo books
Like you reach Castor's bits in Shadows of Reach
dusty ferry
i only saw it at barnes and noble like last year
empty bloom
then again, i have no idea when fractures was released
And Halo Fractures was released nearly 3 years before MCC's Season 8.
orchid kettle
You eagerly await for him to intersect with the main narrative
But nah, this was just the prologue to Divine Wind
empty bloom
Actually, sorry, nearly 4 years
orchid kettle
But nah, this was just the prologue to Divine Wind
(Which is another book about walking from Point A to Point B and allying with some natives)
dusty ferry
ok, now i am going to blame the people who called fractures, fractures
empty bloom
Was that also Denning?
orchid kettle
Yes
orchid kettle
Denning is the new Chief trilogy, and the Veta Lopis trilogy
empty bloom
I am detecting a theme here.
orchid kettle
I am cautiously optimistic about Outcasts
I like what Ive seen so far
but boy I am not wild about going back to the Oblivion planet
empty bloom
From what I heard, one theory I really freaking hate got confirmed and that makes me mad.
dusty ferry
man, it seems like never actually reading the books is more enjoyable than actually reading them
empty bloom
But I won't share anything I've heard beyond that.
dusty ferry
From what I heard, one theory I really freaking *hate* got confirmed and that ma...
what theory?
empty bloom
Not sharing it.
orchid kettle
man, it seems like never actually reading the books is more enjoyable than actua...
a lot of the Halo books aren't really good
dusty ferry
sad
orchid kettle
They've never been amazing or anything
empty bloom
Confirming it would be a spoiler and I don't feel like getting banned again.
orchid kettle
but a lot of times it feels like we're taking very little story content, and stretching it out to be a full 300-400 page novel
dusty ferry
Confirming it would be a spoiler and I don't feel like getting banned again.
you could DM it
maybe
empty bloom
Nope.
dusty ferry
i dunno the rules
empty bloom
Sucks to suck, G.
orchid kettle
I will remain pure, and I will not see spoilers until the audiobook comes out
empty bloom
Don't get me wrong, I'm still gonna consume Outcasts the second I get my grubby little claws on it.
empty bloom
I will remain pure, and I will not see spoilers until the audiobook comes out
Oh, I didn't have a choice, Decepticoncobra just tweeted in rage about it and it showed up in my feed.
orchid kettle
oof
empty bloom
Well, actually, not rage, but a weird mix of rage and "vindication" because one of their theories was confirmed.
orchid kettle
whelp, rip in peace
empty bloom
Decepticoncobra is now in the 'Trenchbird has an unrequited beef with them' catagory of Halo people.
orchid kettle
I do dig the preview chapters so far
though I have not messed the Denning style of writing, where he has characters constantly stating the current power dynamic and tactics at play
"I know you are trying to misdirect me into telling you THIS!"
dusty ferry
Decepticoncobra is now in the 'Trenchbird has an unrequited beef with them' cata...
you have a full category of those people
empty bloom
Not a literal catagory. I'm not that particular.
orchid kettle
"Well by you saying that, I can tell you that you are rattled, and need my help!"
and so on and so on
empty bloom
More just... I'll remember it if it's relevant.
Otherwise it's not really something I actually care about.
unique rune
when will they reinstate Chief showering in reprints of The Flood
empty bloom
When Brokkr pods exist in 2552
empty bloom
Excuse me, ShowChief's derriere is Halo's derriere.
And it is glorious.
I hope I have one half that good at that actor's age.
(Pablo Schreiber is 45 btw)
Huh. I forgot he was in 13 Hours.
obsidian thistle
when will they reinstate Chief showering in reprints of *The Flood*
I'm still waiting for Ghosts of Onyx to get a Definitive Edition
Its the last book that sorely needs it before the fiction got really solid
empty bloom
Watch people get angry that the IIIs aren't tiny anymore.
obsidian thistle
Its got continuity issues inside the book itself lol
It needs it to become consistent with itself
obsidian thistle
So I'm a Spartan, I am trying to pick between if I want a M90 or a M90A shotgun before I go in a Pegasus that is fitted with M90A 30mm gauss cannons. My friend over there is talking about how he likes the M90 shroud on his MK50 Sidekick, while also wondering how to fire their M90B PDM.
And today is the day I realise... Halo finally mimics real life with its military designations! XD
I thought it was amusing when the M12 was also made to be a chaingun a Cyclops can use xD But the M90 takes the cake!
pseudo mulch
i found out halo takes place in the lord of the rings because lord of the rings
dusk jetty
Wonderful insight
surreal glen
Did you know
The Halo 3 Mongoose has a warning in the back that says the combined weight of both people must not surpass 450 kg
Now, a single Spartan 2 with armor weighs almost half a ton, so 2 of them on a Mongoose would crush and destroy the vehicle
last anchor
Spartans just built different; their equipment holds up no matter what
unique rune
Thinking about the time Adriana-111 turned some Unggoy into paste with a Mongoose...
last anchor
Several Unggoy in fact
carmine sleet
Thinking about the time Adriana-111 turned some Unggoy into paste with a Mongoos...
She's an absolute icon for that
I need to see what Grey Team is doing these days
obsidian thistle
Halo: Envoy is the route to go!
languid veldt
are the books like Hunters In The Dark and Last Light lore accurate?
carmine sleet
Halo: Envoy is the route to go!
Already read it, it's why I need to see more of them
carmine sleet
are the books like Hunters In The Dark and Last Light lore accurate?
They are canon
languid veldt
cool
obsidian thistle
There is currently no non-canon novels or comics
last anchor
Artistic lisence (such as the random mutation of an M45 into an M90 in the Bootcamp comics) dont count.
unique rune
Clearly the UNSC has just invented shapeshifting weapons
dusty ferry
I mean, that’s rather likely if you consider kinetic bolts canon
Making a bullet to hardlight converter would be way harder than making the weapon assembly stuff in the promethean weapons
unique rune
I always figured Kinetic Bolts were supposed to either be some kind of like, Forerunner-derived accelerator thing?
Or just reverse-engineered hardlight cells somehow jammed into and made compatible with UNSC firearms.
carmine sleet
I like the accelerator idea
Why the Forerunners made it in the first place? Who knows, but I could buy the UNSC adapting something like that and testing prototypes of it with Spartan personnel
dusty ferry
I always figured Kinetic Bolts were supposed to either be some kind of like, For...
i just assume it converts bullet to hardlight based on how things get disintegrated with the same effect as the other promethean weapons, and we see the ammo being the same as the rest of the ammo variants.
It accelerating the bullets to get a similar result to hardlight is cool though
teal badge
I heard that the ravanger was made for cooking by the banished
That might of just been a joke tho
last anchor
Considering it uses a caustic substance that can induce cell disingitration, yes.
teal badge
They were saying that's why it sucks at killing
teal badge
Yeah
last anchor
Setting the ground on fire works rather nicely too
teal badge
But that's melee
last anchor
Maybe thats the cooking part.
unique rune
Because water has been a convenient way for game designers to keep you from straying too far off the main path for years
empty bloom
Yo why do Spartans die the second they touch water
Jump in the river in Halo 3's first level, under where the Pelicans go "I'M HIT NOOOOOOOO"
Or drive off the island in Silent Cartographer
The problem with water most Spartans have is that while MJOLNIR is a really good pressure suit, it also doesn't float.
dusty ferry
mainly because the covenant canonically just didn't touch oceans
like at all
it comes up on the lore entry we got a couple months back on the Crassus class
and i know Mjolnir would have been in development pre covenant contact, but we don't actually interact with Mark IV
Mark V and the later designs didn't need improvements to a combat situation you were never going to be in
except Oceanic apparently, but Oceanic is a weird one off as far as I'm aware
warm ridge
Yo why do Spartans die the second they touch water
They don't, it's just a game mechanic Bungie implemented to prevent players from going out of bounds.
Play Halo 1, the Silent Cartographer mission, you can go super deep into the water before hitting a invisible barrier.
You can also jump into the water without dying throughout the Halo games but they're rare. Like in Halo 4, there's an out of bounds area that exist that you can teleport into, be under water, and be perfectly fine.
Halo 5 also has a canvas forge map that literally depicts you being under water
empty bloom
mainly because the covenant canonically just didn't touch oceans
Oh, they did. There's that part of Ghosts of Onyx where Blue Team is on their way to a new combat zone after an underwater op on Earth near the Gulf of Mexico.
empty bloom
except Oceanic apparently, but Oceanic is a weird one off as far as I'm aware
Oceanic seems more designed for amphibious-as in, the modern standard of Marine-warfare. Mako is explicitly designed for divers, which is basically the diver equivelant to ODST armor (Designed for Spartans, ended up being used by Army Combat Divers more than Spartans)
empty bloom
Oceanic seems more designed for amphibious-as in, the modern standard of Marine-...
Okay so what's weird is; Oceanic is explicitly designed for deepwater combat, in spite of what I just said. But historically it's been used to take out hydroelectric power generation platforms, which would reasonably be above or near water surfaces.
Amusingly, it's also an example of MJOLNIR being abused, and it's a high cost armor. Its exceptional resiliency for a GEN2 suit, particularly against gravitic fields and conduction-intensive fields, is a noted feature it seems to arguably get used for more than its original design intent.
Apparently, it's also on the more expensive end for GEN2 MJOLNIR, owing to its improved resilience properties.
last anchor
Okay so what's weird is; Oceanic is *explicitly* designed for deepwater combat, ...
They are; they show up on the Halo 4 map Tempest
The one with the electric generator that fries your shield if you set it off
I want Oceanic back
dusty ferry
there is possibly some access to those generators that is submerged, so i guess Oceanic was used to get people through that accessway undetected?
last anchor
Or up onto the beach you can see on the edge.
If nothing else islands are, you know, islands. They dont usually rise up dramatically, there's a sloping shelf that you can walk along. Thats where most coral reefs tend to be.
Like in the Bahamas, there's a gently rising section of sand that leads to the actual island itself, that can extend for miles outwards around it. Waters not very deep, 20 or 30 feet give or take.
Ref: I was there in June. Can confirm, Spartans in MJLONIR could casually walk right up to the beach and onto it without issue
empty bloom
They are; they show up on the Halo 4 map Tempest
Wait, are those the same generators as the ones mentioned in Oceanic's loreblurb?
obsidian thistle
The weird thing about Oceanic is Halo 4 features no suitable maps for it. And the game to cut it does lol
last anchor
Wait, are those the same generators as the ones mentioned in Oceanic's loreblurb...
Same planet at least that I'm aware of
orchid kettle
If I recall, Regret just found a thing on another planet that said Earth was where the Portal to the Ark was, and didn't know it was the human homeworld
But Truth apparently did, since he had a fleet assembling to destroy it before the events of Halo 2-- but it got blown up in Halo: First Strike
abstract wren
Exactly that yes
coarse quarry
how did the covenant find forerunner relics
orchid kettle
They had a special thing called a Luminary. It's whole deal was that it could detect other artifacts.
It's apparently why the Covenant always seems to know that there are some Forerunner goodies around even when said goodies are buried deep below ground
coarse quarry
and it called humans reclaimers right?
orchid kettle
Yeah
last anchor
Technically it did, but they misstranslated "reclaimer" as "reclamation", believing the marks to be those of the relics rather than humans.
When they showed it to Mendicant Bias he went "my people need me, I must go to them" and almost launched the Dreadnought...only stopped thanks to its launch sequence BBQing a bunch of Lekgolo in its systems
fair hazel
new chapter ahh
zenith dew
Why was the attempts to flesh out master chief’s character in h4 - h5 failed but kratos character development succeeded
empty bloom
A lot more had changed about Kratos and Kratos had a much more emotional starting point.
Kratos starts out with a much more sympathetic beginning; A father who lost his wife and child, and had been betrayed, and filled with bottomless rage. The entire trilogy is him seeing his rage through to the end after attempting to die on his own terms, then turning to simply toppling the pantheon when he is betrayed again.
The sequel series grounds his character significantly, years later, and he spends a far longer and far more personal campaign with his second child where he gets chances to grow and adapt as a father, and struggles against the past him.
Master Chief on the other hand starts out through 3 games with minimal character development, starting as a character with minimal quippage and no real dialogue of note beyond small one-sentence statements. No real emotions beyond some dead-eyed sentence with no face to connect to, with minimal personal agency in the plot beyond the most basic of premises.
In 343i's games, they significantly humanized him by making him far more talkative and vocally expressive, but he never really changes from the deadpan tone of voice, which is partially a character choice, and once again having minimal personal agency in the plot beyond basic duty until the latter half of 4 (He's still expected to save the universe. Literally one dude doubts him.), and the majority of 5 (It's literally the entire reason Locke's after him).
surreal glen
There's also that Kratos is not a silent protagonist, never was one
empty bloom
TBF, neither was Chief. Chief was merely a deadpan, boring, quiet protaganist.
Either way, the difference is mostly Kratos driving his plot because he is actively on a personal mission to kill Gods and/or defend himself/his family, while Chief is primarily just a glorified dead-eyed 7/11 worker doing his job by comparison or dealing with his not-quite-love-interest's shenanigans.
Maaaaassive gulf in character motivation there.
It's why ODST's story works well (Buck's team has multiple goals, and is a cast of characters with blatant differences in opinion and outlook that constantly engage with eachother in conversation), Reach's characters work tolerably well in their framework (See ODST's description), Arbiter's story works great (He has an intensely personal investment in the events of Halo 2 and parts of Halo 3, as well as a significant chunk of Halo 5-he's a side character, but he's a side character with emotion and ambition beyond doing his job or doting on an AI, and he actively changes his ambitions according to events), et cetera.
Chief's overall dominance of the story is something of a narrative thorn in the side of Halo. While I don't really dislike him, his character archtype is very inflexible for what 343i has historically used him for (In my opinion) and is an active detriment to making an engaging and effective protagonist if the goal is to have a more emotionally resonating protagonist. While the effort to diversify Chief as a character in terms of outlook is applauded and has heavily improved over the years, I can't help but feel that there could've been a better way to go about it than laser focusing on him as the avatar of Halo going forward come hell or high water. His struggle to reconcile his companion's original dying and death has dominated three game lengths at this point and has started wearing exceptionally thin in places.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
orchid kettle
Why was the attempts to flesh out master chief’s character in h4 - h5 failed but...
Writing quality, and probably also just because the Sony player base would be a lot more receptive to the shift to a more story focused game
While the fanbase that plays Halo are more likely to be fans of CoD or Battlefield than they are Last of Us or Uncharted
And the writing quality just wasn't high enough to make up for that.
warm ridge
I always figured Kinetic Bolts were supposed to either be some kind of like, For...
AFAIK they're a simulation thing that only works in theory but hasn't ever been seen outside the sims
warm ridge
Why was the attempts to flesh out master chief’s character in h4 - h5 failed but...
H4 and H5 didn't fail in fleshing the Chief out at all, wdym?
warm ridge
Master Chief on the other hand starts out through 3 games with minimal character...
Chief has tons of emotions that he shows throughout H1 H2 and H3. He also says far more then simple one liners or one sentence statements.
zenith dew
H4 and H5 didn't fail in fleshing the Chief out at all, wdym?
Bad wording choice my bad, I feel they could have done it a bit better since the concept of showing a more human side to the chief isn’t bad
Halo infinite campaign did it well tho
orchid kettle
Yeah, I like Chief a lot in Infinite
zenith dew
I feel like it’s not really 343s fault since bungie never intended to make chief more human so they never gave a good start for 343
2 different philosophes
orchid kettle
It feels like a smarter way to use his character-- to have him be the guy inspiring change in other characters
Which is generally how a lot of long running series use their protags, since its easier to have the protag enter some other character's life, help them with their troubles, and then ride off into the sunset to do it all over again
zenith dew
Was halo 3 supposed to be the end of the franchise
orchid kettle
probably depends on what you mean by "supposed to"
zenith dew
probably depends on what you mean by "supposed to"
I mean like actually the end
orchid kettle
Bungie when given the chance to make two more Halo stories chose prequels, but must have been aware that Microsoft was frothing at the mouth to make more Halos
I do think the original 5 games do end on a pretty satisfying note, whether its Chief being lost forever being the end of the character, while the Reach Epilogue shows us that Humanity is finally starting to bounce back after the Covenant War
There's this recurring idea in myths and legends that some cultural hero is still alive, but asleep somewhere important, and will awaken on humanity's darkest day
like King Arthur still being on Avalon, Finn Mc"Cool" being in some cave surrounded by fairies
and it seems fitting at the end of Halo 3, Chief is placed in a similar situation
As well as the idea that as somebody born and raised for war, he just can't exist in an era of peace.
zenith dew
Do the unsc marines / odsts hate Spartans
orchid kettle
ODSTs' beef with Spartans is partially an inferiority complex, partially them hearing about how Chief killed a couple of them in a brawl
Only Marines we hear hating Spartans were this one company, who were tasked with training against the Spartan children
and they lost every time
And got so petty about it they even started loading their rifles with live ammo instead of training rounds
Otherwise, marines, especially after the Spartan program went public and ONI started pumping out propaganda
generally had a more positive view of Spartans
orchid kettle
If I recall, the old Elite design got contextualized as really old Elite armor
dusty ferry
Yeah, slugmen got canonized
dusty ferry
AFAIK they're a simulation thing that only works in theory but hasn't ever been ...
You can find the kinetic bolts shotgun in campaign
orchid kettle
With the Digsite project, it seems like 343 is on board with canonizing a lot of old cut content
Largely as like, obscure, old things that technically existed at some point in the Halo universe
empty bloom
And got so petty about it they even started loading their rifles with live ammo ...
The UNSC really does just breed unhinged psychopaths, doesn't it.
last anchor
Im blame the constant prevelance of social media.
warm ridge
You can find the kinetic bolts shotgun in campaign
You mean the Blaze of Glory? Like I said, same thing I already said still applies. Not all the weapon variants especially on the UNSC's side were possible and just war games simulation stuff. If they appear in campaign it's likely not meant to be a canon thing. Same reason Kelly's Shotgun, the Oathsworn, doesn't give you a speed boost in Campaign, nor does Linda's Sniper, the Nornfang, doesn't give you damage boost in campaign but it does in War Games/Matchmaking.
warm ridge
Halo infinite campaign did it well tho
If any of them failed I'd say Infinite did tbh. It doesn't always show that human side & when it does it feels out of place almost
warm ridge
I feel like it’s not really 343s fault since bungie never intended to make chief...
No Bungie 100% intended Chief to have a more human side the moment they gave him a voice that didn't sound like a literal cyborg. The original intention was for him to be a cyborg but all of that got changed later. He shows quite a bit of emotions through H1, H2, and H3
warm ridge
Was halo 3 supposed to be the end of the franchise
Nope. Bungie wanted to make Halo 4 but sometime in 2008 development shifted and they made HR instead, leaving Halo 4 to 343i which picked up the work in 2009.
warm ridge
probably depends on what you mean by "supposed to"
It wasn't.
last anchor
No Bungie 100% intended Chief to have a more human side the moment they gave him...
Technically he is still a cyborg, he's got a neural implant, but it's a LOT different (and better imo) than the original plan.
unique rune
Was halo 3 supposed to be the end of the franchise
Kinda, kinda not.
Bungie's time with Halo is also subject to... somewhat variable answers because different staff have kinda said different things over the years.
Some have said CE was planned as a one and done, but others have said they were working on ideas for a sequel later in development IIRC.
Then Halo 2 was supposedly meant to be the end of it. But it had its whole development thing and so the last third of their plans for H2 got stretched out and reworked into 3.
By that point Bungie wanted out so they could go work something new, but were contractually required by Microsoft to make two more Halo titles before signing over the rights to MS and leaving.
ODST was Halo 3 DLC turned into a "full" game to help fill those requirements.
Reach was originally created with the intentions of being a Halo 4 before they decided to do a prequel instead.
At least that's how most of it went as far as I recall.
warm ridge
Technically he is still a cyborg, he's got a neural implant, but it's a LOT diff...
yea the original plan was to have him show zero emotions and basically be a direct robot, similar to Robocop almost.
This changed during Halo 1's development to the Chief we got that showed visibly confusion, excitement, sadness, being scared, and happy.
You see a lot more of this in Halo 2, and especially in Halo 3.
All 343i really did was give Chief more of a voice on top of the already emotional character Chief was throughout H1/H2/H3.
Bungie was already doing this in Halo 3 btw.
warm ridge
Some have said CE was planned as a one and done, but others have said they were ...
And the reasoning behind why Bungie went with a prequel instead of a direct sequel is because they didn't want to start any new story trends they couldn't finish, even though they had already started a new story trend with Halo 3 about Chief going to Requiem.
golden spear
Some have said CE was planned as a one and done, but others have said they were ...
I mean they were leaving the franchise, why start a new arc that they were never going to finish
golden spear
Bungie when given the chance to make two more Halo stories chose prequels, but m...
I mean remember, Microsoft was desperate for a big exclusive at that time
pale zenith
I mean they were leaving the franchise, why start a new arc that they were never...
it would've kept the art consistent
which got altered with 343's h4
343 wud have iterated from there
orchid kettle
I mean they were leaving the franchise, why start a new arc that they were never...
That's kinda always been my beef with the Halo 3 terminals revealing that humans and forerunners were separate people
Since like, in the context of the Bungie games-- its not really a reveal that matters, and only makes the backstory more complicated as now you're left to ponder why Humans can operate higher tier of Foreruner artifacts
But you know-- it becomes necessary for 4, because the Didact has to hate humanity's guts
and that only works if he isn't human himself
dusty ferry
Since like, in the context of the Bungie games-- its not *really* a reveal that ...
if they had been forerunners, there wouldn't really have been a thematic reason for that to be the case either
Honestly, they should never have considered revealing it
Makes everything too complicated for the ORiginal trilogy.
empty bloom
I really don't understand what about it is complicated. They either aren't or are.
It's only complicated if you obsessively overthink it.
As it is now, it's literally 'crazy robot is crazy, alien who started a war over a mistranslation is wrong, humans are inheritors and not literal ancestors'.
Literally four words is not complicated. "Figurative, not literal, forefathers"
If the subjective you has an issue comprehending the concept of speaking figuratively, or lying, or being wrong-especially to the degree of it being considered complex, I can't honestly suggest a better medium to have an interest in-even modern children's programming regularly works with all of those concepts.
safe hawk
Why was the attempts to flesh out master chief’s character in h4 - h5 failed but...
Ce-3 fail to flesh out Chief. That’s why his character is so difficult to develop. Because a lot of people that played the bungie games and only the bungie games only know Chief for being one dimensional.
golden spear
Honestly with how much of a mess O'Connor made of the franchise's lore, perhaps a hard reboot may be the best idea
There's just no going back to the lore Bungie established
unique rune
lol we’re still doing this silly “it’s Frankie’s fault” thing
safe hawk
Honestly with how much of a mess O'Connor made of the franchise's lore, perhaps ...
How did he mess up the lore?
Inb4 forerunners
empty bloom
lol we’re still doing this silly “it’s Frankie’s fault” thing
If it ain't his fault, it's Kiki's or Bonnie's. Or so they say.
pale zenith
I have absolutely 0 interest in a reboot and am complete against the idea.
Same, infinite is a decent enuf reset
carmine sleet
Last thing Halo needs is a hard reboot of everything, since that would be seen as giving in to their by 343i's detractors
Like sure, 343i has made mistakes over the years, but a hard reboot is not the solution to that
empty bloom
Last thing Halo needs is a hard reboot of everything, since that would be seen a...
Latter half got it in the bag
Honestly listening to that horse radish is already half a bag of eating a portuegese man'o'war
orchid kettle
If the subjective you has an issue comprehending the concept of speaking figurat...
Except that's not really how writing works. At least not the sort of writing Halo employs.
Like, Halo 3 has enough struggles without the idea that you shouldn't be listening to anything the three antagonists are saying
Not to mention how, again, in the context of the Bungie games-- the Forerunners don't really have a whole lot going on if they're not human
They're just advanced guys who got humbled by a fungus.
orchid kettle
Except that's not really how writing works. At least not the sort of writing Hal...
But more on this point-- you can't just say "crazy robot is crazy", because Guilty Spark's words aren't the only factor in the scene. The blocking, the music, the presentation overall is.
And the fact is-- you simply do not present inane rambling this way.
I feel like say this every time too-- but like, the characters in Halo aren't real. They say whatever the writers want them to say. And writers have goals they seek to accomplish in any given scene.
Sure, people lie and are just wrong about things sometimes in reality. But people also go to the bathroom and say "um, uh" in every sentence. But we don't need to experience that.
We accept that stories are not meant to be simulations of reality, but interpretations of it.
And as such, usually in a story, when a character is lying, wrong, or crazy, the story itself and its presentation tends to acknowledge it. Because its an intended aspect of the scene, constructed by a person with intent.
And as such, people are not wrong to be confused when they're later told:
"Oh no, Gravemind didn't mean literally 'sins of the father pass to his son.' He meant: "the sins of the father pass to his wife's weird pet monkey.'"
Like, I know a lot of people have lore brainrot, where they only absorb stories in the franchise in terms of raw information and have little grasp of "themes" or "motifs"
But man-- these pieces of work are more than wiki summaries, and I really recommend engaging with them beyond that.
unborn ice
a lot of the Halo books aren't really good
if nothing else most of the novels are very readable
orchid kettle
They're usually pretty inoffensive, just lil tales that go down easy
unborn ice
i think i genuinely liked the greg bear trilogy and i always like whatever joe staten writes
orchid kettle
I like a lot of them
I just kinda recognize that even the best Halo book is only really a 6/10 or 7/10
unborn ice
yeah pretty much
the vast majority of halo books are a 4 or 5 out of 10
i think there's only a few books that were just bad
orchid kettle
to me, 5 is like the minimum for me to feel invested enough to finish a long piece of work
though there are certainly some Halo stinkers I only sat through because I wanted to stay in the loop
and probably would not have paid any attention to otherwise
I do enjoy the variety a lot as well. We obviously still get plenty of Military Man Shoots Aliens, but I can appreciate how sometimes the protag is a high schooler who has to learn that racism is bad, or a scavenger with daddy issues. Or with Broken Circle, have the cast be entirely alien.
pale zenith
I do enjoy the variety a lot as well. We obviously still get plenty of Military ...
Imho first strike is peak
last anchor
Ghosts of Onyx is cap
scarlet quiver
I enjoy the ideas they try to create with the books, but yes, the books are not killer 10/10s.
eager grove
Books are pretty great for introducing new concepts/scenarios/characters etc, and to make the universe richer by going into detail in ways that games/shows don't allow, ofc they're not gonna be 10/10s, nothing ever is, but they're invaluable tbh
Can also serve as solid foundations or at the very least inspirations for other works, there aren't many examples I can think of, but The Witcher 3 did something of the sort with one of their DLCs, and it was decent enough that you could enjoy it on its own, but made the experience much better if you had knowledge of the books beforehand
last anchor
They fill in weapon designations and capabilites which is nice
golden spear
How did he mess up the lore?
By ignoring all of the hints established in the original trilogy that humans were always meant to be the descendants of the Forerunners
safe hawk
By ignoring all of the hints established in the original trilogy that humans wer...
They are hints. Not confirmations.
