lore-and-universe

[scarlet quiver]

With a name like Gretchin, how can you not like 'em??

[orchid kettle]

I guess the guy from ilovebees who killed the ONI agent sent to kidnap his daughter

That's pretty baller

[dusty ferry]

and maybe forge's dad

because its not entirely clear if boren's syndrome is entirely fake

[orchid kettle]

Id be kinda disappointed if Forge's skills and strength gets explained by him being a secret Spartan 1.1

I dunno, if Spartans are gonna be these one man armies that can carve through a million Elites with a soup spoon

I don't see the harm in normal humans not instantly being vaporized if an Elite or Brute so much as touches them

Like I was just reading Envoy, and it was pretty funny how we're told that like one Sharquoi got loose and killed a 100 marines

but like-- then at the end, the Elite character kills four with just his sword

four Sharquoi that is

[proper spoke]

What would happen if a halo ring teleported onto another ring?

[orchid kettle]

probably nothing good

[dusty ferry]

the thing that happened to the CSO from reach, but infinitely bigger

[vagrant palm]

Kaboom

[verbal pollen]

Johnson was a 1? I didn't know that

[past trail]

he was an orion candidate, that's how he survived his team being attacked by the flood on Alpha Halo- like the Spartan-2's, it'd be harder for the flood to infect them since their brains are so different due to augmentations, that they'd just go for other, easier targets first.

[terse lava]

@past trail It didn't have to do with that, the Orion augments simply helped him to react and fight better than the marines around him

[plush compass]

Honestly Johnson has way more luck than Chief. Dude survived everything that happened in Contact Harvest (haven’t read it but know he does tons of crap); tons of other engagements in the Human-Covie war, took out dozens of covenant in zero gravity on a space station, survived for a while with only his squad on an alien ring that wasn’t a natural formation, survived the entire freaking flood infestation of 04, wrestled an elite for an Assault rifle and didn’t get his arms torn off, and then proceeded to get off Halo before it exploded at point blank range, somehow got back to earth, survived the battle of earth, delta halo, and more, with pelican crashes aplenty, and only met his end after Mr. Light bulb got sad that his Hula Hoop was being explodeded again

[past trail]

That's true, but it's also still a fact that he would be harder to be infected, so if you combined both points, its even harder for him to be infected (slap on MJOLNIR Mk V and a hyper intelligent AI and you get Chief)

[vagrant palm]

Yeah, Johnson is built differently it's not just the spartan 1 stuff that helped him it was his will and determination that won him those feats.

[rocky vector]

The do say though that Johnson could be the key to not getting infected though in First Strike but it would kill the sergeant so Chief didn't do it

If I'm remembering correctly

[vagrant palm]

Yeah W move by chief

[dusty ferry]

when does infinite take place exactly?

[terse lava]

2560

[gilded mason]

That's been retconned since then.

[vagrant palm]

Wdym it's been retconned? Isn't it stated in the book?

[gilded mason]

Yeah. But the book was written 20 years ago. Things changed since then.

[unique rune]

It’s been a while since I last read First Strike but I feel like you could argue that Halsey was just hypothesizing based on the info she had and her hypothesis turned out to not necessarily be accurate

Kinda like how the bit about Unggoy and Kig-Yar not having enough mass to support conversion to a Flood combat form really originates from one of the ODSTs in The Flood speculating IIRC and not from an actually definitive source

[gilded mason]

That works as well

[orchid kettle]

The characters believe it to be true, but we have had that comic for a while where Johnson gets out of being eaten by the Flood thanks to raw skill and a bit of luck

rather than like, the Flood trying to gobble him up, but can't for whatever reason

[scarlet hinge]

There was an interview back in the day with Staten or Frankie where they were very clear that there is no cure or immunity to the Flood, and that aspect of First Strike was something they weren't big on

[orchid kettle]

Wild how that's the beef they had

and not the time travel

[scarlet hinge]

i guess they could just sort of ignore the time travel

whereas a flood immunity would underwrite anything they do with the flood going forward in the games

(this was around 2004 or 2005, iirc)

[orchid kettle]

If anything, Johnson having a lil quirk that happened to make him Flood immune seems more reasonable in the Bungie era

when you don't know that the Flood are the remains of vengeful gods

Like, for all we knew, the Flood was a natural-occurring species that just got way too good at its job

[vagrant palm]

Speaking of the flood it's wierd that they aren't on zeta halo cuz as I mentioned before the floods were on installation 04 and 05

[dusk jetty]

Oh no, they are. Despondent pyre mentioned the containment facility in her conversation with Cortana.

Speaking of which, is the index ever mentioned in Infinite? I recall The weapon saying something about activating the ring in foundation but she doesn’t have the index, does she?

[vagrant palm]

I'm not sure however if zeta halo is the same as the other rings the index should be in the library.

[orchid kettle]

You can see a Flood sample contained in a cylix or whatever its called

[orchid kettle]

She said Cortana had the Index, to refute Chief's assertion that the Banished would fire the ring

[dusk jetty]

The index for 04, yeah, but she used it on 09, or is it like, once you have it, you have it kind of thing

[orchid kettle]

Chief is like super convinced the Banished are gonna fire the ring any second now, despite it being six months

[orchid kettle]

Well, surely the only reason Cortana can activate 08 is because its a copy of 04

so Zeta would require its own

[dusk jetty]

That’s what I thought, Cortana had a index not the index

[orchid kettle]

and the Weapon, like I said, says Cortana had it when Chief talks about the banished wanting to fire the ring

[orchid kettle]

The Index may be used up once you activate the ring

back in Halo 2, Miranda had to snatch the Index off the control panel to stop the ring from firing

so I assume the index has to be "rejoined with the core"

I think also, because the Weapon gobbled up all those Cortana echoes

that means we have the Index

we being the Infinite trio gang

[dusk jetty]

That’s certainly a possibility, I just thought the index was a one and done deal, with a specific one for each ring

Seems like that would make the most sense, given the possibility of misuse

[empty bloom]

I feel like having the key on a random location of the ring is really, well, dumb.

You'd think it'd be on some platform far over the ring so the flood could never infest the locale.

[dusty ferry]

Like, how many active Spartans are there? My best guess is like 2000 max

[orchid kettle]

My max is sitting more around 1500

any number where Chief's line in Shadow of Reach makes sense

where he says something like "Wow, its so cool how there's hundreds of Spartans now."

[orchid kettle]

and this number only really works if you don't call this "One thousand, five hundred"

but instead, "fifteen hundred."

[dusty ferry]

I like trenchbirds guess of 2000-3000

[terse sage]

I think more like 1,000-1,500

[vagrant palm]

I'm probably assuming most of the spartan population are made up of spartan IV

[terse sage]

100%

There are like 14 Spartan II's and maybe 350 III's if Gamma Company is still around

[empty bloom]

Given the timeframes and rapidly increasing size of the classes-plus the fact that they have IVs able to drop from standard service back into a training role for further classes-means, to me, that the classes are generally much larger, especially with the existence of multiple standalone training facilities to include Laconia and AJJA.

With multiple facilities outputting high quality special forces of similar pedigrees, the population of Spartans should be more than 1500 right now, especially considering Gamma was never wiped.

Man, it must kind of suck to have 6 hours of every day while not on mission to be eaten up by training.

[terse sage]

"Wargames"

Makes it a little more enjoyable

[empty bloom]

Alright

So I'm doing some number crunching;

There's three facilities known to have opened after 2553. The first class was 145 Spartan IVs.

We'll assume facilities 2, 3, and 4 open up in 2554, 2554 again, and 2555.

[terse sage]

I'd assume the classes get bigger

[empty bloom]

Yes. So I'm assuming 200 successful graduates per facility per year.

[terse sage]

That's an additional 600

So at minimum, 745 IV's

Most likely a lot more

[empty bloom]

Lowballing at 150 per facility per year (And not counting AJJAMS because we don't know when that opened, so back down to three facilities), over the course of 7 years, you would have 3,150 Spartan IVs as a low estimate.

@dusty ferry I may have low balled my earlier number a bit.

[dusty ferry]

Interesting

[empty bloom]

So I'd say there's anywhere from 3150 to 5,600 (200x4=800x7) IVs that have been made not counting the first class.

Bringing the total from 3295 to 5745.

[terse sage]

Infinity had like 300, making that pretty insignificant

[empty bloom]

Additionally, people have been known to be outfitted with Spartan IV augmentations but not actually made into Spartan IVs in name.

Specifically, (Now) Spartan Grant, who was augmented to test GEN2 MJOLNIR before she was actually trained fully as a Spartan.

As those augs can't really be reversed, that's likely an additional dozen or so people who are IV augmented but are not full IVs due to the demand of testing that much equipment.

[dusty ferry]

And like 5 kids

Who aren’t Spartans, but they got augmented

[empty bloom]

We don't know anything about them and they likely don't actually have the full compliment of IV augmentations.

I wasn't counting Ilsa Zane either but she's considered a proto IV.

[vagrant palm]

halo 4 had a lot of spartan IV's but it should also be known that spartan 2's were stronger

[empty bloom]

It's irrelevant at this point.

And stated ad nauseam to my great displeasure.

[dusty ferry]

I mean, the evidence on the strength thing is uhhh

Not very concrete

[empty bloom]

Locke tanks a BR to the helmet and cares a net total of zero beyond 'That was my favorite gun'.

And then he just grabs a new one from some dead dude, presumably.

And the Chief versus Locke fight would be something that could be taken to the bank unlike what some people say, and most people don't really seem to realize that or are angry and coping over it.

See; IVs in GEN2 are stated to be roughly equivalent to Spartan IIs in GEN1. The biggest criticism of GEN2 by former GEN1 wearers was that GEN2 did not provide as much of a physical enhancement.

Only IIs and IIIs really wore GEN1, unlike IVs, which rarely wear it for a variety of assumed reasons because it's stupid to think you could find a solid consensus among 5600 adults. Biggest reason is likely raw practicality.

If the enhancement for IIs and IIIs was not strong enough for them to justify GEN2 as a marked strength improvement, in armor, that pretty much soft confirms that IIs and IIIs and IVs are effectively on a level playing field in GEN2. Which is continued, as far as we know, by GEN3.

And frankly, sending out Spartans without one of the main assets that makes them so good is a really stupid idea, so that lack of out-of-armor strength parity is pretty much irrelevant outside of contests or after a Spartan's sustained extreme damage in the field.

[dusty ferry]

Also, gen 2 was meant to be cheaper mjolnir which worked

Gen 1 is nebulously super expensive

[empty bloom]

The better things to look at for a IV versus II and III comparison, to find major drawbacks or whatnot, should primarily be in other categories, but it's almost always strength, which always rubbed me the wrong way.

It should be things like reaction time, overall intelligence, long term endurance, survivability, etc etc etc.

[dusty ferry]

Even then, outside of armor we have very little context as to what the minor improvement of gen 2 even was

Like, it’s only slightly better than gen 1

[empty bloom]

We do, kind of. GEN2 seems to be a highly adaptable base platform.

[dusty ferry]

Nothing about that statement implies the strength enhancement will discriminate against what generation of spartan you are

[empty bloom]

Ah

Yeah, in that sense, they've never really explained how GEN2 achieved that parity.

[dusty ferry]

I mean the adaptability of Gen 2 is very apparent

[empty bloom]

I assume it's got something to do with how IV's bone and joint augs are mostly different tbh.

[dusty ferry]

Yeah, but as far as we see, a spartan II and spartan IV in gen 2 have effectively equivalent strength

So I don’t buy the whole “weaker because reasons” thing

It’s only really talked about in an impromptu question and buck in a poetic sense

[empty bloom]

Personally, I just kind of assume that it's a difference of being able to output like, maybe 5% less on average.

Not a devastating amount of difference, or even really significant.

[dusty ferry]

That honestly makes the most sense

[empty bloom]

Nor would it even be all that surprising because of the sheer size of the pool of people you're looking at, that have different motivations, strengths and weaknesses, genetics, intelligence, etc etc.

[dusty ferry]

Yeah, the early gens were all child soldiers trained together, the IVs are both already somewhat trained and adults with actual skill sets

[empty bloom]

I suddenly feel r/Halo and r/Halostory getting very angry at me. How curious.

[dusty ferry]

I never look at r/halo

They scare me

I feel like they would try and convinced you a T. rex could beat up an elite or something

[empty bloom]

... I mean, I'm pretty sure a Dinosaur that weighs as much as a bus could kill an elite if the elite didn't have weaponry.

[dusty ferry]

Look, I didn’t have a good example for dumb power scaling

[empty bloom]

At least one elite has been canonically killed by just getting run over by a warthog.

[dusty ferry]

I just distrust redditors

[empty bloom]

Fair.

I'm usually pretty good when it comes to assuming power scaling. Then again, I pay a lot of attention to that sort of thing because I don't have a better hobby lately

[dusty ferry]

As long as you don’t pull out tiers it’s fine

[empty bloom]

Eh.

I wish I wasn't muted yesterday. I wanted to blow someone's mind by saying my favorite Spartan is Spartan Tanaka.

Shame.

[dusty ferry]

Tanaka is at least unique in the engineer role

Osiris has actual multitalented individuals besides combat

Makes them kinda cool

[empty bloom]

That's literally the reason I don't like much IIs and IIIs as characters lmao

I like characters who have more to them than 'Yeah they kill bad guys uh really good and stuff'

'Oh and they're also REALLY determined'

[dusty ferry]

The most different is like kat, and that’s because she does tech stuff (cyber warfare?)

[empty bloom]

People don't work like that, and I think it's a disservice to your franchise to have characters like that.

[dusty ferry]

Noble, for the lack of characterization in reach, actually feels like a functional military unit that could reasonably talk about stuff beyond a battle

Blue team didn’t get that across in 5

[empty bloom]

Yeah, pretty much. Blue's novel characterization was along the same lines. The game kinda used them clumsily.

[dusty ferry]

I assumed so. I need to find the books someday

[empty bloom]

(Yes, I know I'm being a bit disingenuous here)

[empty bloom]

Yeah, Fred has a conversation about how much he hates rations, or stuff about how he's actually fine with Halsey because she gave him a chance he'd have never gotten if he wasn't kidnapped.

[dusty ferry]

Like Jorge at least has “vague insurrectionists sympathies” when he was kidnapped as a child to kill insurrectionists

Even if said sympathy is just “I don’t want to commit a ton of murder”

5 just messes up blue team I guess

[dusk jetty]

William has some development, just in the wrong way. He goes from a jokester to more of a quiet guy.

[orchid kettle]

People are weirdly invested in strength feats

even if the franchise makes it clear that fights aren't just arm wrestling

I think this has something to do with how people project themselves onto the main character

So even if it doesn't make sense that the IVs should be noticeably weaker than IIs physically

people will insist that is the case because, hey, they're Chief and they don't want some nobody to be stronger than them

Even though, personally, I think it just makes the character more impressive if they're overcoming the odds despite not being the strongest around

[empty bloom]

I like 5 a lot as a story, but I think Blue Team having as much focus on the plot rather than a focus more on Osiris and what they're up to trying to catch up was a bad move.

Of course, then we wouldn't get the extremely crucial point of view of Blue Team catching up with Cortana, and getting a softer perspective on Cortana's actions than insults thrown at people Cortana views as the perpetuation of what she's trying to stop.

[unique rune]

I think about that brief snippet of dialogue where Kelly asks John about what working with Cortana was like and when asked for more detail he just flatly goes “no” a lot.

[fair hazel]

It’s more than halo 5 does nearly every character a disservice

Not only blue team

And Kelly is the only one who hasn’t worked with a smart ai. The others have

[empty bloom]

Except for the usual one, lmao.

Anyone who says it 'did Cortana dirty' doesn't really know Cortana as a character all that well.

Or Halsey.

[empty bloom]

... Actually, there's not many it does a disservice to beyond Blue Team and Palmer. Maybe Roland.

The rest is all just one or two odd lines but nothing really bad.

And Chief being a weirdly stoic and annoyed grump is kind of sensible considering the situation; in spite of how much it really makes conversations with him and Blue hard, it at least makes sense given the problems Blue Team's dealing with.

Halsey's always wasted so I don't really care about that so much.

They could've used her as a 'no duh' ease of use character to explain Cortana's behavior to people who don't know Cortana though.

[fair hazel]

I’m pretty sure I know Cortana well

Also John well. Well enough that I literally predicted he’d want to go more diplomat

And when shadows of reach came out. I was right

[empty bloom]

Yes, and that's literally why he opposes the Mantle.

Any sane person would.

[fair hazel]

The whole of Osiris? Even the warden. Jul.

It’s not about opposing the mantle as the way it sounds. John just knows that that way of doing things and how it’s been isn’t great

[empty bloom]

... Anyone would, literally because it isn't great.

[fair hazel]

Fred was like. Sounds good.

John was like. Not the way it’s done.

[empty bloom]

Yeah, because it sounds like it makes sense if you don't pay exact attention to it. But it's just a nicely dressed degenerate and awful Political concept I shouldn't discuss in depth here.

[dusk jetty]

Which reminds me, how much does John actually know about the Forerunners. He knows about the mantle, so it suggests he knows a lot, and the Halo 3 terminals were addressed to him but we never see just how much he knows

[empty bloom]

One species, the most advanced, should have the say in all species. It's a load of bull, though.

[dusk jetty]

I’d say he has a basic understanding of most of forerunner lore, but would he recognise offensive if he saw him? Would he remember the terminals?

[fair hazel]

You know there’s the halo 4 terminals too right. And the other things he picked up too on requiem

[empty bloom]

As for Jul, I have no respect for him as a character-his role was done with the moment the Didact died.

And yes, I read the Kilo 5 Trilogy.

And Escalations.

[dusk jetty]

Jul’s fate is frustrating. As is the didact. The didact being the overarching villain through the Reclaimer saga could’ve turned out well, imo

[empty bloom]

Didact's frankly a pretty lazy villain in the grand scheme of things.

Jul's got twists and depth, but he was a relatively small fry.

[dusk jetty]

His backstory is cool, I wish he had more of a motivation, besides “hate human, turn human into computer.”

Jul, on the other hand, could’ve been a polar opposite of the arbiter, could’ve given us a very interesting story but I guess we had to make Locke look cool instead

[empty bloom]

I don't think it was because of Locke needing to look cool.

[dusk jetty]

I think there was room for him to be a larger villain from there on, I just don’t like characters being tossed out for no reason other than writing, especially after Last Jedi.

[empty bloom]

He's not a big threat due to the allegiance shift of the remaining Prometheans, he was slowly getting abandoned through Escalations as his faction lost relevance and the Ex-Covenant rogues gallery expanded, and as we also see in 5.

[empty bloom]

Gee, I wonder why Trenchbird gets so frustrated by Halo Infinite's campaign.

[dusk jetty]

You wouldn’t be the only one

[empty bloom]

As for Cortana, it always made sense to me that she went Utopian dictator type.

I could've seen her staying dead, buuuut I was guessing she wouldn't the second Halo 4's credits rolled, and as surprised as I was to see her be a 'villain' in the 'Path to hell is paved with good intentions' sense, I wasn't surprised at the fact she was back.

Which is something I think not many people really understand about her arc between 4-5-Infinite.

[dusk jetty]

I think it would’ve been cool if it had to do with the Halsey part of her. Halsey needs to fix stuff, and cortana being a megalomaniac, in order to “fix stuff” makes perfect sense.

[empty bloom]

That's the thing

It literally does

The game doesn't outright tell you, but it's pretty obvious that's why.

[dusk jetty]

In a way I suppose it is

Now that I think more about it

[empty bloom]

Halsey had to swallow her morality to make the IIs, and guarded them as much as she could to atone. It's why she focused on MJOLNIR, it's why she sequestered Blue to Onyx, it's something she struggled with for decades and never truly forgave herself for. Cortana is the closest to Halsey that a person could ever be.

To try to save humanity, Halsey became a monster. In much the same way-to stop the galaxy's warring, strife, to protect life and her Spartans-Cortana made a similar choice when she got the chance.

(It's also interesting to note that Cortana's voice goes into Halsey's style of speech when talking about John and Blue Team in 5, a detail I noticed people missed a lot. It's really noticeable when she calls Blue team HER Spartans.)

[dusk jetty]

This is another reason I wish cortana was a character throughout infinite, instead of “flashback” scenes, seeing her overcome Halsey’s obstacle of forgiving herself, slowly, instead of blowing up the ring in a couple of minutes after being trapped

[empty bloom]

That's kinda why Infinite bothers me. It's too fast and the 'realization' doesn't seem well-emphasized. I'll have to replay for the story beats to be more confident in criticizing it in that aspect, but it's so... Poor of a focus.

She comes across as being more sorry that her plan failed than the fact she didn't try to think of a better way.

[dusk jetty]

It feels a bit like Mando season 3 it is ok, but it moves very fast, and wastes time with stuff that doesn’t really need to be in the story

And then when we reach the climax it just… stops.

[empty bloom]

Yeeep.

I should really just... Type up a whole essay on the Cortana thing, so I can copypaste it whenever it comes up. This has got to be like, the sixteenth time I've said something about it.

[dusk jetty]

The whole sequence mission in infinite made me roll my eyes

[empty bloom]

What mission do you mean?

[dusk jetty]

There is a mission near the end, called “the sequence” where you need to get different parts of a code for… something I forgot, and you travel like halfway across the map three times

[empty bloom]

Oh right

That thing

I forgot what the mission was called, I do know that mission though

[dusk jetty]

It’s fine with a warthog but it is annoying on legendary

[empty bloom]

... Random aside, I'm so glad that Warthog runs aren't really a thing.

I hate Warthog runs.

I really hate Warthog runs.

HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE WARTHOG RUNS SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR WARTHOG RUNS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR WARTHOG RUNS. HATE. HATE.

[unique rune]

but muh I C O N I C

[fringe robin]

I think people would still understand your hatred for them in lowercase and not-bold though

[unique rune]

I cannot put into words how much I hate when people unironically use “iconic”

[blissful robin]

Thought Question:
Would ONI, already willing to kidnap kids from Inner Colonies like Reach (Jorge was Reach born, another was born on Tribute), be willing to grab kids from Earth for the Spartan II Program, suggesting they had more resources and needed more genetically viable candidates? If not straight up kidnap them from families, what of orphans?

[orchid kettle]

They did

[blissful robin]

Who was Earth born?

[orchid kettle]

The Spartan who got de-Spartaned in Nightfall was from England

Randall

[terse sage]

I still think that was kinda dumb

[blissful robin]

Darn you right

[orchid kettle]

Thats my opinion of Nightfall in general tbh

[blissful robin]

NVM then you answered my question

[terse sage]

Most of the augmentations don't seem "removable"

[blissful robin]

"Retired"

[terse sage]

Not to mention the fact that I don't think the UNSC and especially ONI would allow a Spartan to "retire" that early

[blissful robin]

He went AWOL after being blown up or something

[empty bloom]

Eh, it was presented in upper case in its original text.

[terse sage]

Still dumb either way

Spartans aren't really the type to "retire"

[blissful robin]

Correction, he fell onto a planet, survived, but the UNSC had retreated

He was isolated for a bunch of years, married a local surviving colonist

So by the time the UNSC returned, well, he been MIA for a long time

[orchid kettle]

maybe they just cloned him a new body and put his brain in it

[empty bloom]

It's... Not Halo's best work.

[dusty ferry]

I was told armor lore would be discussed

[empty bloom]

Eh, I kinda just mean in general

I don't talk about it a lot but I love to

Like how things like Rakshasa or other hypothetical variants actually make a lot of sense because MJOLNIR GEN2 techsuits incorporated all the important guts into the actual techsuit itself instead of in the hard layer (Somehow).

Which is a really good idea that I doubt GEN3 in general canned.

[dusty ferry]

Yeah, I remember a big discussion about if rakshasa had shields or not

[empty bloom]

It should, if it's supposed to be MJOLNIR parity.

[dusty ferry]

Like, most of the supplemental pieces mention former covenant species in some capacity, so I just assumed it had a pinch reactor or something

[empty bloom]

But you can see the techsuit layer on Rakshasa. People think it's that weird cloth padding but it isn't.

[dusty ferry]

Or whatever was in the elite combat harness

[dusty ferry]

yeah, you would think the techsuit would be covered like how that one glove item talks about

how that gets past people is odd

[empty bloom]

There's also the fact you can see the actual techsuit at the ankles, lmao.

The bodyglove doesn't cover the feet.

[dusty ferry]

interesting

[plush compass]

I don’t know, removing titanium and metal infused someone’s skeleton seems pretty easy

[hazy shadow]

In the sense that you could take the metal out? I guess, though the method described in the wiki would be so deeply entwined with their skeletal structure that I doubt it. But not removable in this instance means they can't be reversed without killing the subject.

[orchid kettle]

It also just kinda feels like it undermines the tragedy of the Spartan-IIs

They're forever changed, forever different from the average person, and that coincides with their unnatural bodies

and the less fortunate ones barely resemble humans at all

Im listening to the Halo Evolution audiobook, and man you gotta feel bad for Soren turning into Quasimodo

always being in immense pain because his enhanced muscles are constantly trying to pulverize his bones

And part of Soren's tragedy is being told that the pain will never truly go away, that he'll never be like the others

[quiet shoal]

Yeah that’s tuff

I kinda wished to know what happened to Fhajad

[terse sage]

Brutes are stronger than II's in Mjolnir right?

But II's have every other advantage

[orchid kettle]

I guess it depends on the Brute

[wispy schooner]

so the spartans in halo wars were spartan iis no?

[orchid kettle]

I think the Brute minors in Infinite are literally Brute children/teenagers

[terse sage]

Red Team, yes

[wispy schooner]

right

[orchid kettle]

So Chief could probably fold them like an omelette with his bare hands

[wispy schooner]

so spartan i and orion is the same thing then?

[terse sage]

Yes

[wispy schooner]

right

[orchid kettle]

Its wild how they made up another Spartan II washout in a wheelchair and made him the founder of the Spartan branch

[wispy schooner]

orions werent truly spartans

[orchid kettle]

instead of just giving that role to Fhajad

[terse sage]

They did Fhajad dirty

[wispy schooner]

cuz spartan ii was the first to have augmentation

[terse sage]

Spartan I's had augmentation but they weren't very successful for most of them

[orchid kettle]

Orion had augmentations

Johnson was one

But when Johnson punches a man, it breaks his nose

[wispy schooner]

oh ic, probably not as extreme

[orchid kettle]

when Chief punches a man, he dies

[terse sage]

People forget that Johnson was in his 70s in Halo 3

[orchid kettle]

sometimes that gets explained away with cryo or handwaved as "humans in halo are just built different"

[wispy schooner]

so spartan iis were kids selected and all that, iiis and ivs were all just adults no?

[terse sage]

III's were war orphans

[orchid kettle]

Like Dutch and Buck are both pretty old and they're out here being space navy seals

[terse sage]

III's were definitely not adults

[wispy schooner]

ic

how did they solve the issue of a bunch of subjects dying during augmentation?

[terse sage]

Less aggressive augmentations

[orchid kettle]

Just kinda general medical advancements

[terse sage]

They used chemical augmentations instead of the ones they did for the II's

[orchid kettle]

I honestly wanna know how the super serum for the bones work

because its also a ceramic carbide or whatever

the same material as IIs

[terse sage]

Hopefully less painful than grafting metal onto the bone

[wispy schooner]

i see, so they were also "weaker" than iis then i assume

[terse sage]

They were cheaper

[orchid kettle]

Personally I don't think there's a ton of evidence that the IIIs are weaker in any major way besides like, their armor being crappier

[terse sage]

Used for high risk high casualty missions that got most of them killed

[empty bloom]

No, and frankly, the thought that they were is based on a specific case.

[orchid kettle]

They can still bend gun barrels, snap Elite wrists

[terse sage]

The III's also had worse armor

[orchid kettle]

Yeah thats what I mean

[wispy schooner]

which armor did they use?

[terse sage]

SPI

[empty bloom]

John got physically overpowered by a Brute while he was both recovering from Installation 04 and in broken MJOLNIR.

[orchid kettle]

their equipment is poopier

but put them in the same suit

[terse sage]

Better than Marine armor but worse than Mjolnir

[orchid kettle]

and I don't think there's a major performance difference between IIIs and IIs

[wispy schooner]

ic

[terse sage]

Noble Team had Mjolnir and they performed quite well

[orchid kettle]

aside from gammas needing that sweet sauce or they go crazy

[wispy schooner]

yea those were the prototype mkv right

[empty bloom]

Yep.

[terse sage]

Mark V b

They even had the prototype Mark VI helmet

[empty bloom]

But uh, yeah, I'm pretty sure Spartans in general are pretty rarely overpowered by your average Brute. It's at the very least close enough to be an issue.

[terse sage]

Atriox is an exception I guess

[empty bloom]

Atriox is one of a small handful of exceptions.

Like that one massive Elite in the redux version of Fall of Reach.

[terse sage]

Some factors played into that too

Red Team were using Mark IV, and Chief must've been caught off guard or something

[empty bloom]

Chief was fresh off of Installation 04 and a few other crappy days spread throughought.

[terse sage]

And Red Team were caught off guard too

[orchid kettle]

Well, its probably best exemplified by that lil exchange Atriox and Chief have

Chief hits Atriox with a street fighter combo

[terse sage]

I was referring to Chief vs Atriox

[orchid kettle]

Atriox smacks Chief once

[empty bloom]

Ah. That's more Atriox just being built different.

[orchid kettle]

and Chief is stunned

[terse sage]

Atriox had a gravity mace

[orchid kettle]

my favorite comment on that video will always be

"Oh we BOXING boxing."

[terse sage]

Which video?

[orchid kettle]

Of Infinite's intro

[terse sage]

Red Team got ambushed and were using Mark IV

[orchid kettle]

Atriox has an exoskeleton hand thing too

But he socks chief with his normal hand

[terse sage]

Is that how he broke Douglas' shoulder?

[orchid kettle]

ye

and the one he uses to crush the helmet

[terse sage]

So he casually crushed Mark IV Mjolnir with his hand

[dusty ferry]

SPI has a different purpose than mjolnir. SPI is a stealth kit

Mjolnir is general purpose

SPI is far more cost efficient than gen 1 mjolnir, and can be used by unenhanced individuals

which is arguably far more valuable than superior raw strength enhancement

[empty bloom]

Interestingly, it still provides some mild amount of strength enhancement, apparently, not just camo.

[terse sage]

Think torpedo and prometheus could've had more survivors if they used Mjolnir?

[dusty ferry]

yeah, that's always been a thing. it does less on strength and speed in exchange for the photoreactive panels and being way cheaper. and also having a way worse battery packs

[orchid kettle]

300 Spartans in MJOLNIR does sound like overkill

unless like, there's just a covenant fleet ready to glass you anyway

[terse sage]

Losing 300 and 298 seems like a problem

[dusty ferry]

i mean, most still would totally have died

[empty bloom]

Beta would've likely still died en masse.

As they met their end by glassing, not long term force of arms like Alpha.

[terse sage]

Alpha could've had a better chance

[empty bloom]

Alpha did get bombarded, but they seem more like they just got ground into dust over a protracted campaign with zero support.

[wispy schooner]

did the spi armor have energy shields?

[empty bloom]

No.

[dusty ferry]

some versions did

[wispy schooner]

damn

the spartan iii version i mean

[empty bloom]

Baseline SPI lacked shields.

[dusty ferry]

but the standard one didn't

[wispy schooner]

o

[orchid kettle]

I think they did in Headhunters

[dusty ferry]

yeah, like 4 people got spi with shields

[last anchor]

Headhunters got upgraded gear.

[orchid kettle]

which I dunno, I always thought it was a weird inclusion

[dusty ferry]

which honestly, raises questions. mainly, why not just have mjolnir

[empty bloom]

Baseline early issue SPI lacked shields but some later variants started to adopt it in increasing amounts until the present Mirage IIC variation.

[orchid kettle]

Its not like energy shields are a super plot relevant thing after all

[wispy schooner]

and spi wastnt like mjolnir where a regular human basically died if they wore it i assume

[dusty ferry]

the spi battery is not good enough for shields and the photoreactive panels

[empty bloom]

Cost. Half the reason GEN2 was a breakthrough was because it was effectively an MIC equivelant to open source and thus offloaded the costs onto the production companies.

[orchid kettle]

I thought the idea was that SPI couldnt do both

if the shields were on you couldn't do stealth mode

or vice versa

[dusty ferry]

correct. SPI apparently got issued to ODSTs

[empty bloom]

And ONI agents.

[wispy schooner]

cool

[orchid kettle]

I think now thanks to the encyclopedia

[empty bloom]

Really, anyone deemed worthy of needing it, which raises a few questions like "Why the hell didn't Locke have this in Nightfall"

[wispy schooner]

and so the mark vi then was issued to 4s? and mc ofc

[dusty ferry]

no, i mean the SPI battery couldn't last with both systems being used that much either way

[empty bloom]

Mark VI was issued to IIs.

[orchid kettle]

SPI is descended from the armor system used by orion

[wispy schooner]

i see

what were the 4s issued

[empty bloom]

Pretty much everything, really.

[terse sage]

Do Spartan 4's use Mark 5b? It's a canon core

[empty bloom]

We've seen IVs wearing pretty much every armor but it's usually a modernized version.

[terse sage]

So the 5b core is like an updated variant of the armor

[empty bloom]

Yep.

[wispy schooner]

i see

[dusty ferry]

yeah, its refit to gen 3 standard

somehow

[empty bloom]

I assume it's mostly internals.

[terse sage]

And do spartan 4s use it out of preference for looks or is it better in some way

[empty bloom]

Desperation, just kinda like how it feels. It's kind of vague.

There's a lot of hulls of it just laying around, so.

[dusty ferry]

nevermind, the SPI battery isn't given a specific lacking timeframe like i thought

i retract my statement

it still can't power both though, from what i assume is caused by not having a built in nuclear reactor

[wispy schooner]

the gen 3 is what mc wears in infinite no?

[dusty ferry]

Gen 3 mark VI

[wispy schooner]

and then the armor all the random spartans in 4 wear

[dusty ferry]

the ones in 4 wear Gen 2 mjolnir

i think anyway

[empty bloom]

^

It's GEN2 Recruit, though it's something of an oddity that they're all wearing Recruit.

[terse sage]

Halo 4 and 5 use GEN 2

Infinite is GEN 3

[wispy schooner]

i see

[empty bloom]

As Warrior's the standard issue GEN2 for the most part.

[dusty ferry]

Like, venator has a Gen 1 version somewhere, and I'm not sure if the Halo 4 one is supposed to be that set

[dusty ferry]

yeah, you would think they would send chief the best reinforcements

[empty bloom]

All armors in 4 worn by Spartans are GEN2 except for the one Chief wears, which is actually GEN1 Mark VI MOD.

[dusty ferry]

ok, i was just confused by Venators description, which kind of implied its Gen 1

[wispy schooner]

so basically everything before halo 4 was just gen 1

[dusty ferry]

given it had a service record in 2551

[dusty ferry]

CE had chief in mark V, 2 and 3 had mark VI, Reach was Mark V[B] and other mark 5 variants

the generation system came about with the advent of Gen 2

[terse sage]

Reach is a non-canon appearance

It's an easter egg

[dusty ferry]

i was talking about the armor noble was wearing

[terse sage]

Oh right

[empty bloom]

From what we know now, Keystone (Early Mark VII) and a few other variants have weird production times.

[terse sage]

Keystone was used on GEN 2 right

[dusty ferry]

isn't Keystone a Gen 2 reengineering of Mark VII?

[wispy schooner]

right so whats the difference between the marks and then gens? cuz even after gen 2 and 3 there is still like mk vii and stuff

[empty bloom]

Yes.

[dusty ferry]

presumably Mark VII Gen 1 was made around the time they started to plan out Gen 2

[empty bloom]

GENs are full armor generations, standalone. Marks are iterative on basic concepts after Mark IV.

[terse sage]

Keystone might have been a prototype for what would become Mark VII

[dusty ferry]

Keystone and decimator (the halo 5 one) are all Gen 2 which try and reintegrate Mark VII tech to the Gen 2 lineup as far as i can tell

[terse sage]

What about the legendary Seeker

[dusty ferry]

we know at least one Mark VII gen 1 was made for Naiomi

[wispy schooner]

right so the marks arent necessarily tied to the gens?

[empty bloom]

Correct.

[terse sage]

Mark 6 goes through GEN 1, 2, and 3

[wispy schooner]

right ok, the gens were just separate things made from the designs of the mark armors

[empty bloom]

Yep.

[wispy schooner]

to be like more mass produced or whatever

i see

[empty bloom]

Seeker's a GEN2 variant.

[terse sage]

GEN 2 was made to be more cheap right?

GEN 3 returns to the performance-focused GEN 1

[dusty ferry]

like how Mjolnir marks 1, 2, and 3 are all named that after mark IV came out

for budgetary reasons

[empty bloom]

GEN2 had a lot of design element differences from GEN1. Cost was not the only major factor and it actually had several high performance variants.

[dusty ferry]

yeah, Gen 2 was made hyper modular

[empty bloom]

The 'popular' line is that it sacrificed a lot, but it mostly just sacrificed raw durability and sustainability.

[terse sage]

Were the thrusters removed when they made GEN 3?

[empty bloom]

Presumably yes.

[dusty ferry]

Maybe?

i don't think that small disk just transforms into actual thrusters

[terse sage]

Seems like a weird choice from a canon perspective

[empty bloom]

Yep.

[dusty ferry]

presumably, they have saftey settings or whatever that the disk overrides or something

[empty bloom]

It was clearly an extremely popular feature considering one variant adopting it made it standard.

[wispy schooner]

gen 3 is just basically all the armor in infinite right

[dusty ferry]

yeah

[empty bloom]

Kkkkind of

See

[wispy schooner]

i understand now

[empty bloom]

Infinite gets really weird

[terse sage]

Do Rakshasa and 5b count as GEN 3?

[empty bloom]

As they're built to the GEN3 spec but are not always directly stated as GEN3.

[wispy schooner]

right like the mkv[b]

[dusty ferry]

yeah, Mirage IIC blurs that line

by a lot

[empty bloom]

Mark Vb is uptooled to GEN3, but Rakshasa is seemingly just adjacent to GEN3, as is Mirage IIC.

[wispy schooner]

thats an spi supposedly tho no

[terse sage]

Mirage is a descendant of SPI I believe

[wispy schooner]

ic

[dusty ferry]

its SPI built to mjolnir standard

[empty bloom]

And Mirage IIC is also pointedly cheap with all the issues that implies.

[terse sage]

Rakshasa is more specialized for Headhunters and the type

[empty bloom]

So it's built to the minimum that they can get away with.

[terse sage]

It meets the bare minimum requirements to be considered Mjolnir

[empty bloom]

Sometimes not even then, which was also an issue with a few GEN2 armors.

[dusty ferry]

Mirage IIC is contradictory, one helmet will say they cut life support, another is reverse engineered war sphinx tech

[empty bloom]

Erinyes is so damn confusing.

I love it because of its implications but the actual armor it's for makes no sense to me.

[dusty ferry]

same

I had to wait like a month to buy it, but it was totally worth it

My best guess as to why its on mirage is because mirage is a cheap test bed

[empty bloom]

That'd track.

[dusty ferry]

Kinda like why Street Viper is on mirage

when its clearly an attempt to make Promethean Vision a standard feature

[empty bloom]

Which also explains why the faction that uses Prometheans is trying to wipe out every single example ever.

[dusty ferry]

Promethean Vision always came off as underpowered though

[terse sage]

In competitive Promethean vision was pretty useful

[dusty ferry]

i guess, but its basically just thermal vision

[empty bloom]

Remember, gameplay is not 1-1 with canon. If Halo MP was canon I could track enemy players on urban maps automatically.

[dusty ferry]

though i could be missing the lore

[empty bloom]

You are, but also missing on gameplay.

[terse sage]

If gameplay was 1-1 with canon, both Chief and Locke would've died in their "fight"

[empty bloom]

They also would've grappled instead of fistfighting lmao

[dusty ferry]

or that one Forerunner zero point energy cell chestpiece now that i think about it

[empty bloom]

Because that's kinda what you do when you're trying to arrest someone.

[empty bloom]

I'm a little bothered that I just now realized that chest and helmet are supposed to go together.

[terse sage]

The whole fight was pretty dumb

[dusty ferry]

gosh dang it, how did i miss that!

[quiet shoal]

Really? How?

[terse sage]

Both of them land at least a few punches on the other

And if they were going off of gameplay, that would've killed both of them

[empty bloom]

Lmao.

[quiet shoal]

Oh

[dusty ferry]

seriously, what does promethean vision do in lore?

[empty bloom]

It's a full spectrum smart scanning device.

[quiet shoal]

Help me see

[empty bloom]

Short range high intensity.

[terse sage]

Just watched the "fight" again and yeah, both of them are able to land 2 hits in relatively quick succession

Meaning that if they were in gameplay, one of them would've killed the other

[empty bloom]

Considering it's also Forerunner gear, it's likely waaaaaay stronger than anything the UNSC could put out.

[dusty ferry]

oh, thats actually useful

like, just generally

[quiet shoal]

UNSC is class 2 right

Forerunner class 12

[terse sage]

Class or tier?

[dusty ferry]

thats a armor rating system

[empty bloom]

I really don't like those sorts of in universe power grading scales, so... Eh?

[dusty ferry]

UNSC are like tier 3 or something

[quiet shoal]

Class

[dusty ferry]

human stuff pingpongs in terms of actual tech development

[empty bloom]

I honestly don't think about it much.

[quiet shoal]

Mjonir is 2

[empty bloom]

Because it's all over the damn place, so it's barely worth considering.

[dusty ferry]

i don't either

[quiet shoal]

That’s humanity’s best battle armor if I’m not mistaken

[dusty ferry]

i just look at individual items

[terse sage]

UNSC still uses bullet weapons in the 26th century

[dusty ferry]

yeah, the class system is specific to armor, but the armor your talking about is Mark V

[quiet shoal]

Oh

[dusty ferry]

which is very outdated by Infinite

[empty bloom]

Yeeep. It's typical in sci fi franchises to have a weird grading scale like that when reality is so much more... Granular.

[quiet shoal]

Yeah that’s right

[terse sage]

The tier system would make sense from the Forerunner perspective

[dusty ferry]

given they had that whole mantle means imperialism thing

[terse sage]

They are watching over many species, so an easy way to catalogue their technological level makes sense

[empty bloom]

I had honestly assumed he was talking about that weird 'civilization power scale' thing from the start

[terse sage]

That's what I thought he meant, and what I just mentioned

[quiet shoal]

Sorry I meant armor

I should specify

[empty bloom]

Yeah and yeah. It's more sensible for armor I guess.

[dusty ferry]

yeah, we know so little about the armor class system that we can't explain anything about it

[empty bloom]

Still willing to bet that Dynast is more durable as a whole than Mark VI.

Because it's literally a hyper expensive primo material made armor built to take hits.

[dusty ferry]

which one is Dynast again?

[terse sage]

Its a Halo 5 helmet

[dusty ferry]

ohh, yeah

[empty bloom]

Well. Set. Body and helm.

It's one of the most sensibly designed melee focused armors in Halo IMO.

[terse sage]

I like the CQB helmet, it makes sense

[empty bloom]

Dynast, CQB, CQC, and Brawler are all basically the same 'pedigree' line of armor.

[dusty ferry]

I'm more of a Buccaner guy myself

[empty bloom]

I've got a whole conspiracy theory regarding Buccaneer, Legionnaire, Linebreaker, and RKD Group.

[empty bloom]

Also you mentioned Korolev; Interestingly enough, beyond just Balor, they only recently got into design of mainline MJOLNIR/MJOLNIR analogues.

[dusty ferry]

really what is it?

[empty bloom]

In Halo Online, the only armor they produced was Mirmillion. Thing is, Mirmillion wasn't designed by them-that was produced under license from RKD Group.

[empty bloom]

Buccaneer is a long-con testbed false flag design or a confirmed problem with the nature of Legionnaire's specification distribution going out of hand, and Linebreaker is RKD Group capitalizing on the situation Buccaneer caused.

RKD Group made Legionnaire and Linebreaker; Linebreaker and Buccaneer share a description line about off-the-shelf communication equipment almost verbatim; Legionnaire is produced under license by various companies interested in designing their own MJOLNIR thus decreasing OPSEC safety for MJOLNIR, allowing someone (Maybe an RKD shell company with Innie sympathies or maybe RKD Group getting extra research in) to make a knockoff GEN2 variant out of Buccaneer.

Ergo, Legionnaire being leaked purposely or otherwise led to the development of a garage-built proof of concept MJOLNIR variant which, due to research, led to a full GEN3 Production helmet with a similar focus on consumer-grade electronic systems.

[dusty ferry]

wait, which gen3 was consumer grade electronics again?

[empty bloom]

Linebreaker.

Mark VII helmet.

"Off-the-Shelf" electronics are likely consumer-grade.

[dusty ferry]

huh, that actually makes sense

[wispy schooner]

wait wat

[empty bloom]

The Linebreaker helmet on the Mark VII core.

[wispy schooner]

oh

i thought u meant vii was consumer grade

[empty bloom]

Nope

Still amusing to me that the IVs on Zeta Halo managed to stretch their armor out for 6 months without a complete service overhaul and IIs managed to only make it about two weeks without serious issues

Right, because GEN1 is the easy to repair super durable one.

[wispy schooner]

mark iv was what the spartans in halo wars wore right

and it was the "first" mjolnir?

[empty bloom]

Mark IV GEN1 yep.

And the first 'real' MJOLNIR as we understand it today.

[dusty ferry]

the others are classed as Mark I-III because of required documentation

[empty bloom]

^

[wispy schooner]

ye no energy shields and such

yet

[empty bloom]

If you want to be really technical, the Mantis is actually part of the MJOLNIR design lineage, tangentially, alongside the Cyclops Mk1 and Mk2.

Good luck figuring out how that makes sense.

[dusty ferry]

Arguably so is Mark I ADS

that one at least looks like a relative

[wispy schooner]

unsc loves animal names

[empty bloom]

I love how Ackerson basically just went 'Screw it, we ball' and made a bunch of mecha

Man straight up looked at everything Halsey was doing and said 'You're doing that wrong, my turn to cook'

[wispy schooner]

halsey only directly developed mk iv and v right

[empty bloom]

Not entirely on her own but yeah.

The shield system of Mark V was actually a breakthrough made by an intern, not Halsey.

Halsey, being the good scientist she is, took the credit.

[dusty ferry]

wait, it was some intern?

[empty bloom]

No, but it was a graduate student, Leonard Gillespie.

[dusty ferry]

interesting

[empty bloom]

Honestly, it's kind of one of the examples of Halsey use I prefer. Having her as being a skilled forerunner and cyber/social scientist type but actually being kinda mid at engineering.

You don't see a lot of how she cooperates with other people and I think that's a flaw in how she gets used as a character, but then I hate 'super omnidisciplinary' scientists.

[orchid kettle]

yeah Halsey is used as a one stop shop for all Halo's science needs

So we don't have to have that many scientist characters in the story

though as Halo has branched out, there's now a lot more room for a variety of characters

[plush compass]

Anders is kind of carrying the entire Spirit of Fire R&D though

[terse sage]

Isabel?

[orchid kettle]

I kinda see Anders as the Halsey analogue in Wars

too bad she also gets lost in space for 30 years

[terse sage]

Like how Jerome is the Chief

Cutter and Keyes, Isabel and Cortana

[orchid kettle]

Jerome is perhaps only really that in Halo Wars 2

[terse sage]

In 2 yes, in the original it works a bit better

-Isabel

[orchid kettle]

In HW1, Forge has the spot as the Captain's man on the ground

though I guess its like if Johnson and Chief switched roles

and Chief was a supporting character instead of the protag

[vagrant palm]

Wait is Douglas dead at the beginning of HW2?

[fair hazel]

No..?

[vagrant palm]

I probably read the wiki wrong 🤪

[fair hazel]

He was wounded that's all, then recovered

[hard flint]

Douglas-042. his name is a small nod to the Author of the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

[vagrant palm]

Truth just is sitting in his chair the entire time he must have butt pain or something

[meager pier]

Damn shame that it seems Epitaph has been delayed to next year

[tawny fox]

He’s like the brain of the Brotherhood of Evil from dc. Just sits and chills while his minions carry out his bidding. And can’t fight that well when the time comes

[vagrant palm]

Idk in halo 3 the only time I remember him getting off his chair was in Halo 3 after he was about to die lol

[tawny fox]

Yeah at that point all his bodyguards were gone and he lost his general safety net and was at the mercy of Arbiter and Chief . The literal definition of “the mighty have fallen”

Why it’s one of my favorite moments in the game

[empty bloom]

He was off his chair for most of the game after his last hologram appearance.

[tawny fox]

Aren’t the San Shyumm like near extinct though

[empty bloom]

Due to genetic extinction yes.

[versed helm]

Hm.

Are they extinct after the destruction of High Charity? I mean, that was their new homworld.

[tribal trench]

No

They are out on flotillas in deep space, somewhere

Plus Janjur Qom

[native burrow]

Ok but like where would they go

If they survived the destruction of high charity

They can barley do anything without their servants

[swift thicket]

Hey

[empty bloom]

Titan just answered that question. They're on flotillas and Janjur Qom.

[empty bloom]

Genetic Extinction is not the same thing as a full extinction, at least as far as I understand it. It's when a species' genetic diversity is not wide enough to continue or support itself, meaning if the actual species isn't extinct, it's on its way out within the span of a few (very inbred) generations.

[versed helm]

Ahh, okay. That makes sense.

[empty bloom]

It usually means that it can't adapt in the face of negative stimuli in the slightest and can be pushed over the brink more readily; Or internal factors, such as extremely poor health causing an inability for a species to reliably bring children to term, let alone reproductive age.

Like, for example, if we considered pugs a truly separate species of canine instead of a breed of canis lupus familiaris, we'd likely consider them genetically extinct or dangerously close to it, as they physically cannot survive childbirth in most cases without severe external assistance-an issue caused by excessive inbreeding. Even when they are successfully born without external assistance, they suffer from a myriad of health issues that can kill them off well before adulthood.

[plush compass]

Poor doggos

[plush compass]

I wonder if they ever brought the dodos back in halo

Or wooly mammoths

[gilded aspen]

Yooo it’s Honse

hype

[slim thorn]

Not to mention you can Hybridize it within days, as Isabel did for Red Team's armor at The Ark. The current Red Team's armor was a Hybrid Mark IV GEN2 from GEN1, and she done that within less than a day.

[terse sage]

You mean Mjolnir?

GEN 3

Probably Chief's suit

Most of them

Well Red Team has a mix of GEN 1 and GEN 2

And the other spartans most likely have GEN 3

The III's are a weird case because we don't know many who are still alive

A lot of IV's have GEN 3, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of them still use GEN 2

Better than Marine, worse than Mjolnir

Doesn't have shields

We don't know

We know SOME have ai

Like the ones in Rubicon Protocol

Though others likely don't

She survived by going into the Forerunner domain

Which cured her of her rampancy, and then she went on to found the Created to take the mantle of responsibility

Far as I know, no

She went to Zeta Halo as her seat of power

She went to Zeta Halo

*no good reason given

And then Dr. Halsey created the Weapon to lock her down so Chief could bring her to Infinity for deletion

Which she did, but Atriox defeated Master Chief and got to Cortana first

So to stop him from taking the ring, she detonated part of the ring, killing herself and supposedly killing atriox

Though we now know he survived

The ring in Halo Infinite

From what we know, she is now dead

Basically

Yes

Cortana or the weapon?

Chief was introduced to the Weapon, who then was deployed to the ring

And then she locked Cortana down and was supposed to delete herself after that

But Cortana stopped her

We don't know

We don't know if she was on Infinity when it was destroyed

For all we know, she could be either somewhere else or dead

Though I doubt she's dead

[empty bloom]

Jeez I missed a lot

All Spartans (Short of IIIs due to their unknown status, so assume I'm always talking about IIs and IVs) have a Nonvolitional "Dumb" AI integrated into their system for tactical and strategic updates as well as combat reports and suit vital information. Some Spartans have a Smart AI, however, these pairings are a rarity.

[terse sage]

The Weapon counts as a smart AI right?

[empty bloom]

Yes, the Weapon, like Cortana, is based off of Halsey's brain.

[terse sage]

Just checking. She was built for one specific purpose so it could count, but yeah you're right

[empty bloom]

She survived to enter the domain when the Mantle's Approach was destroyed due to being embedded in its systems while the destroyed ship partially translocated to Genesis (As Genesis was registered as a functional repair facility).

Mantle's Approach had its core seed (Including the seeming majority or entirety of Cortana's personality matrix, which connected to the Domain there) sent to Genesis, with additional debris remaining in Earth's orbit and translocating to Installation 03, including the Didact.

[terse sage]

Who then proceeded to kill Black Team

[empty bloom]

Still find it funny people get mad at that. If anyone could absolutely pubstomp a team of IIs, the literal general of the Forerunners could.

[clear beacon]

He did a little trolling :3

[clear beacon]

He also sort of had the element of surprise, no?

[terse sage]

Atriox curb stomped Red Team and Chief on separate occasions

[empty bloom]

They were both caught flatfooted. Didact's response to seeing Black Team basically boiled down to "Oh hell, not more of these guys. It's Didacting time." and then he Didact'd all over them.

While Black Team kinda had no real idea how to respond until Prometheans started to shoot them.

[clear beacon]

My favorite line from the Halo franchise - "It's didacting time"

[terse sage]

What about "it's atrioxing time"?

[clear beacon]

Cortana pulled up and said "It's Cortana time"

[terse sage]

It's tartarusing time

[clear beacon]

This is stupid

LOL

[unique rune]

To be fair I don’t think people are necessarily upset that a Forerunner beat S-IIs, though given the way fans treat S-IIs it certainly wouldn’t surprise me. For me it’s always been that they just sorta casually got offed because 343 basically said “well we aren’t doing anything with them right now I guess”

[clear beacon]

Nah, I think the fact that it's the didact that killed them.

Especially since chief funny guyed him with a pulse grenade and sent him tumbling not a couple hours earlier.

Tbh I wanna know what Kilo-5 is up to right now :3

Specifically Naomi

I know that Osman became CINCONI

11 I believe.

[tawny fox]

To be fair I don’t think Chief has fought many people with the kind of telekinetic powers that the Didact possessed up until that point.

[terse sage]

11

Blue Team, Naomi, Red Team, Omega Team, and Gray Team

We don't know much about them

[unique rune]

They’ve only ever been in the Halo Wars games

Not really much about them to read about

[terse sage]

Most we know about them is their names

Not that I know of

[unique rune]

Not terribly much
You can check their Halopedia pages I guess

[clear beacon]

What about Maria?

I forgot about her too

[unique rune]

(that’s 14)

[tawny fox]

They probably weren’t prepared to deal with that kind of power

[terse sage]

Right

I can't math

[unique rune]

14 known active duty, plus maybe 5 or so washed out or retired

[terse sage]

3 of which are currently stranded without contact with the main UNSC

[unique rune]

Soren-066 could still be alive and kicking but we dunno for sure

[terse sage]

Idk if Soren even counts

[clear beacon]

It isn't clear how many washouts were able to be healed and reintegrated - either in a combat role or intelligence.

[terse sage]

Red Team were all washouts who were rehabilitated back to combat roles

[clear beacon]

Yar

But half of the 2's that survived augmentation were crippled.

[terse sage]

Like Fhajad

[clear beacon]

Who?

[terse sage]

Fhajad 084

[clear beacon]

Just looked em up

It's been a moment since I've read the books and he's only mentioned on like 5 pages total 💀💀

[terse sage]

Confined to a wheelchair after augmentations

[empty bloom]

TBF, I still think the way Chief did it was a load of bull.

At least Cortana helped him then, but really? A pulse grenade of all things?

[clear beacon]

Like I said - chief funny guyed him LOL

[empty bloom]

Literally could've set that nuke off anywhere in that room but you chose to go through that whole gauntlet because reasons.

Chief, you silly goose.

[tawny fox]

Wasn’t cortana the one who ultimately ended that fight in the end. I haven’t played 4 in a while

[empty bloom]

Yeah, Chief was basically getting Vader'd.

Cortana managed to stop the Didact by uh

Hacking him, I guess.

And making hardlight tendrils.

[clear beacon]

Pretty much held em down

While chief did the trolling

[empty bloom]

Aaaaand this is why I think Didact was an overpowered and overrated villain for Chief.

[tawny fox]

To me it makes sense. The didact had like telekinesis and the likes. I don’t think chief has seen much of that

[empty bloom]

Rekt

[clear beacon]

Huh whuh

[empty bloom]

Strict word filters.

[clear beacon]

I didn't curse tho

[empty bloom]

What's funny is, he wasn't.

Not even then.

[clear beacon]

I want to see a forerunner that helps the UNSC

Got censored for a synonym for the word help LOL

[clear beacon]

I mean huragok are a thing but an actual forerunner

[empty bloom]

Two consonants, one vowel?

As the start?

[clear beacon]

Oh for sure which is probably why they haven't done it

[boreal bane]

Pardoned that for you

[clear beacon]

Yar

[clear beacon]

Appreciate it 🙏

[boreal bane]

Didact isn't dead

[clear beacon]

On god?

[empty bloom]

He got composed. He didn't die. Still a really dumb plot, but then that's kind of a running theme with Didact stuff.

[boreal bane]

Composed, not dead

Please remember to turn off the ping /tag when replying, thanks :)

[clear beacon]

Oh so he got funny guyed into a computer

[empty bloom]

Like... Why the hell do multiple composers work somehow.

[clear beacon]

Will do.

[empty bloom]

Oh, but he keeps his mind unlike usual, somehow, because he's just already crazy or something.

[tawny fox]

Did other Forerunners possess some kind of telepathy like the didact? Or whatever power he had

[empty bloom]

Don't blame em tbh

[clear beacon]

Well if the didact got composed and he can be brought back, why not bring back another forerunner that potentially got composed :3

[clear beacon]

^^^

[boreal bane]

I'm just clarifying that he's not dead

[empty bloom]

Concept art showed him sort of half-corrupted. Like Captain Salazar from the newest god-awful Pirates of the Caribbean.

Still recognizably the Didact, but wrong.

And with a cane for some reason.

[clear beacon]

He old

[empty bloom]

Just Halo 5 Didact Concept art should find it.

On the google machine.

[clear beacon]

Oh this art is sick

The didact went blankie mode

[empty bloom]

Not sure looking evil is the point.

[clear beacon]

He was stripped of all his power

[empty bloom]

Like how Cortana's design changed to suit the different situation she was in in 5.

[clear beacon]

Probably trying to make him look ragged and slightly pathetic I assume

[tawny fox]

The flood went blankie mode for a LONG time

[clear beacon]

Bruh said slumbie time honk shooo honk shoo

[empty bloom]

To that more 'militant emperor' sort of look, to fit it.

[clear beacon]

Bro was festering fr

[empty bloom]

I mean he was literally just locked into an angry ball for it

The rage sphere

The grumpy circle

[clear beacon]

Time out

His wife put 'em in time out LOL

[empty bloom]

He was supposed to have access to the Domain but apparently nobody thought that the Domain would turn to shredded paper the second the rings went off.

And it only barely started working again before Cortana got to Genesis, so it wouldn't have really helped the Didact as of 4.

[clear beacon]

Mom turned the internet off :(

[empty bloom]

Well, considering some scrub beat him twice in increasingly silly ways, maybe.

[clear beacon]

I would've liked to see a Didact redemption story

That would be cool

I mean he tolerated Chakas and his midget friend for a bit

[empty bloom]

Well, one was being made that got delayed again due to the author's heart problems, so.

[timid oar]

He was so angry he let a human get away and then nuke him, safe to say diadact wasn’t too bright

[clear beacon]

:(

Health do be important so I don't mind waiting hehe har har

[empty bloom]

I'd honestly be more peeved at the galaxy for doing that stuff twice.

The audacity of the galaxy.

'Haha, you had plans? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA'

God, I hate that, lmao. Didact's just so frustrating to me narratively.

Luck as a plot device. God, that's just... Ugh.

[clear beacon]

At this point it's really hard to put him in a position where he can see "his error of his ways"

[timid oar]

He’s too OP anyways

[clear beacon]

We could take his armor away

PLEASE

I wanna know what's up with the harbinger

I mean there's not much you can do when 343 is going through some stuff.

Afaik*

I mean it would be pretty cool if she was connected to the precursors

Like what if the precursors were even more advanced than the forerunners

And they had intergalactic travel

The precursors as far as I know weren't advanced in a technological sense, more of a literal physical sense.

I don't believe they were described to have incredible technology or anything like that.

But like what if they were so advanced that the puny forerunners just thought they were naturally like that.

The precursors

I'm just saying nonsense but I can see the potential lore expansion that is possible.

The precursors are really only talked about with respect to the flood when they were supposedly much more.

Sgt. Johnson is a precursor confirmed

He's the original gravemind

He's the Primordial's son

LOL

🙏

Bring back the only guy who knows what the ladies like

Hehe har har

[tawny fox]

He’s practically invincible. Shot him by accident so many times in CE only for him to show up again later.

He just gets knocked out for a bit like Jason Vorhees

He’s secretly one of the most powerful beings in the halo universe

Flood can’t even get him

[plush compass]

Don’t forget my boi Chips Dubbo

[plush compass]

He survived the crash of PoA, the Flood on installation 4, escaped the explosion of PoA and got back to earth, went to Delta Halo and New Mombasa at the same time, survived the Ark and all of Halo 3, and was mysteriously absent the rest of the franchise, especially considering he has fought alongside Master Chief and survived a ton of battles without getting severely wounded (at least not enough to be incapacitated in battle), making him a prime Spartan 4 candidate. This leads me to believe he is either a precursor sent to stop the Covenant destroying humanity, or he is a secret ONI agent who is a template for a clone army, the next generation of highly trained and experienced Spartan 5 soldiers (explaining why there’s two of him during 2/ODST)

[clear beacon]

Most grounded and well thought-out theory in all of halo lore

Sorry, forgot to turn off ping

[plush compass]

And don’t forget how his name is named after Chips

And lays are 90 percent air

So chips dubbo is likely entirely made of air

[empty bloom]

Ecch.

Har de har har.

[last anchor]

Epitaph got delayed?
Dont tell me Kelly G is having health problems too. I know Denning was but last I heard hes doin better.

[empty bloom]

Might've gotten a wire crossed

So don't trust that 100%

[last anchor]

Ah cool

[wicked wasp]

Is the Jenkins from contact harvest the same Jenkins from CE and The Flood?

Or are they related

Or what

[indigo arch]

Yes

[wicked wasp]

Damn he old as hell then

[indigo arch]

Same fella, far as I know

Well don’t forget crying sleep

[wicked wasp]

Bro had to be like 40

[indigo arch]

Cryo*

[wicked wasp]

I do that all the time

I guess me and Jenkins aren’t to different

@indigo arch

In Contact Harvest he was so brave tho

And I doubt Johnson would need to tell him to “fire your weapon”

[empty bloom]

Everyone's got a breaking point.

Turns out his was monstrous popcorn.

[wicked wasp]

Yeah he can deal with getting overrun by aliens and warships but not a bunch of lil ones

[empty bloom]

I mean if we wanna talk serious about breaking points being inconsistent, I've seen a few.

[wicked wasp]

True

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I have a bigger issue with it being the same dude from Contact Harvest.

Early installment weirdness hit Halo harder than a ton of bricks.

[wicked wasp]

I’d be happier if it was his son

@empty bloom

I also got a problem with him still being a private

Like he was in the military for like 20 years

25 at least

[empty bloom]

You didn't need to ping me for that

It's old news in terms of super weirdness

[wicked wasp]

Damn I thought I was bringing up good points 😭

[empty bloom]

It's one of the earliest points of contention to exist in Halo's continuity, actually.

[wicked wasp]

Ok…

[icy yoke]

Duration time spent... long voyages in FTL usually requires cryosleep. Johnson was Frozen nearly half his deployment time ....

[plush compass]

Is chips dubbo even a cannon character though?

[fair hazel]

Yes…

His last appearance was right before Halo infinite

[tawny fox]

While he doesn’t play any roles as big as Sgt Johnson or chief he’s been present for most of the battles throughout most of the games

He’s like a background character who gained a lot of recognition among the fans

[modern narwhal]

@carmine sleet what does SOS forces mean?

[carmine sleet]

Swords of Sanghelios

Also not sure why you needed to @ me and reply, replying does the @ part by default

[modern narwhal]

oh I'm sorry

[versed helm]

Were there any large scale battles on installation 04? (Asking for my card game)

[empty bloom]

Yes, most of the battles for Alpha Base.

As well as the rush to get the materials to reinforce Alpha Base, well, to Alpha Base, after looting the Pillar of Autumn.

[versed helm]

Thanks

[fair bay]

Someone message me so we can be friends and you can guide me through the Halo EU 😋

[fair hazel]

You can ask here

[versed helm]

Did the Great Schism also occur in New Mombasa?

Asking bc I see a lot of brute in Halo 3 ODST, but no elites.

[pulsar cipher]

blassreiter? pfp @versed helm

[versed helm]

Nah its from a Final Fantasy anime

[pulsar cipher]

ff has anime?

[versed helm]

Final Fantasy XV does

[pulsar cipher]

completed the game?

@versed helm

[versed helm]

I was close to finishing it, but something happened to the game and I had to start from the beginning again

[pulsar cipher]

halo or ff? XD

[versed helm]

FFXV

was up to that insomnia part

[pulsar cipher]

what bout halo?

[versed helm]

They're fine, completed all the games

except for Halo Wars 2 for some reason

Like I got Halo Wars 2, but I never really felt the need to play it

[pulsar cipher]

just got into halo bout half a year ago

never really got into the lore XD

[versed helm]

I see

I got into Halo since I was pretty young

[pulsar cipher]

and how long is that?

wait when did the fist one come out

lemme check

[tawny fox]

2001

[pulsar cipher]

damn thats really way back

[tawny fox]

Yeah lol

[versed helm]

Got into Halo 2 when I was 4 or 5

[pulsar cipher]

i honestly thought it was just a decade old or something XD

[tawny fox]

Yeah I’ve also been into it since childhood

[pulsar cipher]

how the .. how does that work XD

[versed helm]

I was young at the time

[pulsar cipher]

so its like one of your first ones huh?

[versed helm]

pretty much

[tawny fox]

I was really young in CE originally released. Originally it belonged to my dad but he eventually passed it down to me at the time

[pulsar cipher]

and youre gonna pass it down to urs XD

[tawny fox]

And I’ve been into halo ever since

[pulsar cipher]

runs in the family

[tawny fox]

Yup lol

Hard to believe it’s that old of a game now

[pulsar cipher]

its actually pretty good still to this day

honestly had the graphics and experience disappointed me i wouldnt even touch it

at least the latest ones

yo, lets play together sometime if youd wanna

[pulsar cipher]

^

you too @versed helm

[versed helm]

Sure

[pulsar cipher]

nice

lemme just add you 👍

[versed helm]

alr

[empty bloom]

The Great Schism occurred across the board, and started earliest (As far as is known) during the events of Halo 3 ODST after Regret left. The game has dialogue for Buck questioning Dare over it, who says it's classified (It's implied she knows, but logically she should be a little surprised about it happened that early if at all, considering it was the first infighting the UNSC should've seen at that scale involving Sangheili and Jiralhanae.)

[versed helm]

Gotcha

[vagrant palm]

It's pretty wired that she, let alone the UNSC, knows about it. I mean, it was a pretty big thing during Halo 2 unless what she's saying is "classified" is pretty much just speculation.

[wispy edge]

Guys who would win

Dr Edward Richtofen (primis)

Or the entire unsc military

[empty bloom]

Could the entire UNSC kill a mortal man who does crazy things involving time travel?