#lore-and-universe

1 messages Ā· Page 22 of 1

unique rune
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All this talk has made me kinda want to reread Ghosts of Onyx

orchid kettle
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i posted my fic there and it'd be real awkward if I wasnt allowed to

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
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ye

dusty ferry
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that's cool

orchid kettle
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real slow on doing anything with it tho

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its just 11 pages, one chapter

bronze delta
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Same here, and I'd be interested in that discord

orchid kettle
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and that was inspired by Halo Wars 2

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when that first came out

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tho pretty convenient that the Banished came back for Infinite

dusty ferry
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I have a ton of inspiration based solely on the adverts on the new community collection maps

orchid kettle
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reigniting my interest in them

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oh wait in my fic its supposed to be a mystery who the enemy faction is

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whoops

dusty ferry
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it happens

orchid kettle
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Banished are real cool tho, I like the idea of exploring Jiralhanae "Might makes right" philosophy

dusty ferry
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The guy i talked about earlier basically word of authors the plot months before it happens

orchid kettle
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Notably in how its self destructive, and the Brutes don't see how its turning family against each other

dusty ferry
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which is kinda annoying, but his pacing is so slow it honestly helps

orchid kettle
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Like there's a Brute I got who's whole schtick is that he abandoned his chieftainship after killing his own sons in the duel for supremacy

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He couldn't raise them to be stronger than himself

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and he peaces out, joins up with the Banished

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and tries to do better with this new hotheaded youth thats on the rise

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
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Yeah I had another guy who's thing was how he was super interested in his people's past glory

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and he wants to more or less bring on a renaissance of thought and art and all that

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But dies young

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Because in a world ruled by might, the weak perish

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even if they have good ideas

dusty ferry
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This is high quality stuff my guy

orchid kettle
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it kinda helps that we don't know a ton about the Brutes in terms of like, their culture and history

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so i can just make up a bunch of stuff

bronze delta
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I'm at work and can't synopsis mine, but lemme put in a show and tell for it

dusty ferry
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hey, can i plug a differenet discord server here?

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because i sort of want to plug the weird tech fanfic one

bronze delta
orchid kettle
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šŸ‘€

dusty ferry
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I would post something if I had a halo specific story

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I might do that tonight in all honesty

meager pier
orchid kettle
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uh oh

meager pier
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I'm not worried, Kelly is a very good writer, I'm guessing they want to give her as much time as possible, or there's been an issue regarding how many copies would be ready

tribal trench
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Did Kelly Gay do Kilo-5 too or was that Karen Traviss?

gilded mason
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Karen, yeah

dusty ferry
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If anyone wants information on that sci fi tech writing discord, send me a dm

abstract wren
tribal trench
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Thats when it was authorized

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proper training didnt begin until when Haruspis stated

abstract wren
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K

bronze delta
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Oh, is it Haruspis that does the Canon Fodders now? Nice

rocky vector
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Going through all the halo books in a year so far and I'm on Halo Legacy of onyx and so far I haven't had a book I disliked. They've all been great! I'm really excited for Epitaph though! I want to se the didact again and when I'm done reading the halo books I think I'm going to do a book study/report on Halo forerunner trilogy again for a deep dive into it

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Then after all of that, I gotta read the comics too

rocky vector
tribal trench
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Have you read Halo Oblivion

timid skiff
orchid kettle
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Like, similar to Brutes, they're a warrior race that think the coolest thing about a dude is how good he is with a weapon

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But then they also think its the greatest shame to be injured in any way that draws blood

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Surely career warriors would understand that that is just an eventuality

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and the real honor comes from if you cry like a lil baby about it or not

visual fox
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Thereā€™s a goofball on Tiktok continuing to spread the misconception that Spartan 3s are weaker and smaller then the Spartan 2s by alot šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø

orchid kettle
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they probably are smaller, on like, average

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because Lucy exists and she's 5'2

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but I don't think there's meant to be a lot of physical difference between like, the Spartans of Noble and Blue

versed helm
orchid kettle
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but I think if you had a character go through the II augmentation procedure, and an alternate universe where that same character went through the III augs

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I think you'd get the same results

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barring any Gamma weirdness

versed helm
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I donā€™t think you would

orchid kettle
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Well, we're told by Mendez that II's, out of armor, can lift three times their weight

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but that just makes them peak human

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not superhuman

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assuming we're talkin about like, a bench press

gilded mason
orchid kettle
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Of course in real life, the guy who got the world record for the press bench probably cant run faster than Usian Bolt

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so the super part is being peak or beyond in all physical areas

versed helm
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I could be entirely wrong here but from my knowledge the Cat 2 Spartan IIIs were pretty much like the IIs only different generations

orchid kettle
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Yeah the idea is that they have Spartan-II quality genes

versed helm
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I thought it was skill

orchid kettle
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and for all intents and purposes, its a way for there to be more Master Chiefs

orchid kettle
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but in the material leading up to Halo Reach, the idea was genetic

versed helm
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Interesting

orchid kettle
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The strongest guy being the guy in charge isn't super complex

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but its also not full of contradictions

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They supposedly even have their own idea of honor, since Tartarus allowing his injured uncle to keep his hammer for the duel was apparently an honorable thing to do

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Which I guess make sense if duels for the chieftainship are usually done WITHOUT the hammer, to ensure that the strongest warrior, not the strongest weapon, wins.

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of course then sometimes you just see dozens of Brutes with hammers who aren't chieftains even when the weapon is supposed to be culturally important as a symbol of leadership

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maybe you could assume that while every clan has its own unique, ancestral hammer, you can still buy some mass produced sticks at Space Wal-Mart for twenty bucks

rocky vector
rocky vector
orchid kettle
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I think they are, its just Kelly is even faster

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Yeah, Usian Bolt's top speed is supposedly 45km/h, while Spartan-IIs out of armor is 55

rocky vector
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Do we know about how fast S3s are?

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I can't remember if that was discussed in Ghost of Onyx or not

orchid kettle
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I think the most we're ever told is like

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one of the spartans thinking

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"that's too fast for a normal human!"

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or something to that effect

rocky vector
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That makes sense. Especially since a lot of spartan 2s have never even heard of spartan 3s

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But I do like that the Spartans 3s are getting a lot of love in the lore tho

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I just wish we got to see them in game

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The thing I never got was Red team in HW. Like I know they're augmented S2s with from my understanding weaker armor but like the timing of it was so hard to get. Then in HW2 do we know if their armor was upgraded or not? I don't think they were so in all intensive purposes in my eyes their spartan 2s but just with crappier armor. Now is that armor weaker then spi armor idk

orchid kettle
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Mark IV is more or less as incredible as any other set of MJOLNIR

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it just doesn't have shields

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except Red Team does, because they're wearing a special prototype version.

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While SPI is just like, one step above ODST armor with stealth mode.

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so yeah, no matter what, you probably always want MJOLNIR over SPI if you can

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its just SPI was a lot cheaper

white hedge
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I have a question, is it possible that like in Halo 4, there is a shield world somewhere that has the flood instead of forerunners?

tribal trench
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Shield worlds were made specifically to defend against the flood by any means necessary

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They are effectively impenetrable fortresses against them

white hedge
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Didn't some fall in the forerunner flood war?

tribal trench
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Iā€™m not entirely sure they were ever fully implemented beyond Requiem

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Sarcophagus was there as well but I donā€™t think it was really meant to be usable

white hedge
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From what I had heard they built shield world's as strongholds as the forerunner empire collapsed but it failed so they built the greater ark and it's halo array, and once that was destroyed they immediately activated the lesser ark and it's halo array, not super versed in Halo lore though, more of a Dead space guy

tribal trench
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From my understanding, the Ur-Didactā€™s Shield World proposal was formally rejected by the Ecumenical Council, but he still went and had a bunch of them built anyways, while the Master Builder went and got his Halo Array approved

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The original Array was destroyed or rendered inoperable iirc, save for Zeta Halo I think? And then when that happened the Lesser Ark was constructed

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And the Lesser Ark obviously constructed the Array of 7 we all know

versed helm
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does mr chief take dumps

tribal trench
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His suit has automated waste disposal systems

versed helm
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ok

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šŸ‘

obtuse crow
tribal trench
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Ah, right

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The 6 + Zeta

scarlet hinge
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shield world assigned number designations go up to the 10,021, though it's not much an indicator that that many were ever constructed in actuality

scarlet hinge
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as such, they were battling the Covenant for a while before you got there, though the local Sentinel defences had prevented the Flood accessing the interior

tribal trench
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I forgot about Trove completely

scarlet hinge
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lol

tribal trench
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Trove was the one with the Dragoon fleet wasnā€™t it?

scarlet hinge
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yeeee

orchid kettle
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I should replay halo wars 1

scarlet hinge
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halo wars 1 GUD

orchid kettle
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i remember struggling a lot with the Arcadia civilian evac mission

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i think because I got a bad checkpoint where it was near impossible to survive but I didnt want to restart

tribal trench
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That mission was impossible

scarlet hinge
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arcadia city isn't too bad - the key is just to really focus all of your forces on protecting one of the Banta-class ferries and ignoring the others

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lots of hornets, as they're pretty quick to respond to attacks

orchid kettle
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"Ok, all honor students, please make your way to Ship A. And everyone else? Uh, gg lol."

scarlet hinge
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pretty much lol

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also liberal use of the healing ring to heal the ships, too

orchid kettle
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the xbox one port of HW1 is on gamepass right

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now may be the time to finally play it

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I am sad though that Forge, who is one of the few examples we have of a normal person 1v1ing an Elite and winning

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may actually be a superhuman Spartan 1.1

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but I guess we'll always have Dutch in Helljumper snapping Elites in half with his giga thighs

tribal trench
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Halo Wars Definitive Edition, which I think also came as free DLC with Halo award 2

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Halo award

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Thank you autocorrect

orchid kettle
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Which halo game do you think lets you commit the most war crimes

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now that's an award category

tribal trench
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Depends on what you define as a war crime in 2540/56

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56?

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HW2 was 2556 right?

orchid kettle
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I guess Wars 1 is only one where you can kill Insurrectionists

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and therefore, kill them in incredibly awful ways

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like arent flamethrowers against the geneva convention

orchid kettle
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its why the legendary ending is a Guardian from the end of Halo 5 popping up

tribal trench
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Well, not entirely, but they are mostly banned

orchid kettle
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I wonder if dropping ship debris unto the enemy counts

tribal trench
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Doubt itā€™s much different from artillery

abstract yarrow
tribal trench
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They started it with the whole genocide thing so I think itā€™s justifiable

white hedge
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I've always been very interested in how tue flood and the necromorphs would interact, the flood is a biological infestation while the necro.orphs are an existential onslaught that was orchestrated and panned from the very beginning of the human race. To me they seem very similar, almost twin-like concepts with different implementations. In the matchups I always give either a stalemate or slight lead for the flood.

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Hindsight tells me the reason the necromorphs were scarier is because humans are way more vulnerable in DS

scarlet hinge
gilded mason
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ur a war crime

scarlet hinge
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i mean, yeah

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that was obvious for years

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get with the program my dude

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I'm from Harvest and I say "'Kill 'em all!"

bronze delta
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I understood that reference

orchid kettle
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šŸ˜

scarlet hinge
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rookie murders a hive of baby yanme'e in data hive

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all of the drones you fight in the hive section are pupal yanme'e

gilded mason
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wow the rookie was truly a gamer

dusty ferry
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he prevented those kids from being made into child soliders

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what a hero

bronze delta
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Would that be considered spawn camping?

rocky vector
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What does the pelican use for fuel in Halo Infinite the one the piolet uses?

tribal trench
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Deuterium iirc

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Yeah, deuterium, just a smaller version of the drive used in a frigate or whatever

abstract yarrow
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So, how do you think this simulation with the Chimera core is going to go? Do you think it will wrap up in the online story with the lore or they might make that the actual Created contingency instead of Prometheans?

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Regardless of where they go with story now, I am glad theyā€™re taking time to address these plot threads.

wicked wasp
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Isnā€™t the game halo a thing in halo

wicked wasp
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6 months I believe

last anchor
unique rune
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Presumably some kind of survival/hibernation feature in his armor, probably not too different from cryosleep

heady geyser
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Well chief have gen 3 armor so the pressure seal most likely saved his life

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Because The pressure seal is a vital component to the MJOLNIR system, it keeps the system airtight, underwater or in space

orchid kettle
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best we can figure is that his armor basically IS a cryo pod now

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so it can place him in stasis whenever

dusty ferry
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this is supported by the coolshot stuff\

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cryo has been miniaturized onto mjolnir before, its not impossible to do it again

bronze delta
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When was cryo miniaturized?

empty bloom
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Same time period where SIVs were cool enough to regrow organs they were not born with.

bronze delta
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What? Or rather; huh?

empty bloom
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Combined with Spartan Field Manual.

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Though, I don't think GEN3 is minituarized cryo. Might be a medically induced coma.

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As ||Horvath was never put into cryo, just a coma||

bronze delta
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I believe the Field Manual mentions organs being replaced with cloned organs, but not natively regrown or anything like that.

Regarding GEN3, cryo makes more sense, unless it has way advanced life support systems for a coma

empty bloom
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As for FMM, it is a mix of cloned or wholly original organs, but neither is unmodified. IV augs explicitly include a complete excevation of every major non-skin organ in a IV's body that isn't out of the torso.

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Or the brain.

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Or the eyes.

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I am not sober so some * may apply.

bronze delta
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Yes, but they're not growing brand new organs within their own bodies from nothing; is that what was being said?

bronze delta
empty bloom
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When Horvath is injured, major organs are damaged. ||Non-original organs as they are in his torso.||

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So, he is ||regenerating organs he was not born with from scratch in an injured state.||

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Not quite the same as growing, more like regenerating like he lost half his liver.

bronze delta
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Kelly, what the hell...

empty bloom
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... Kelly?

bronze delta
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The author

empty bloom
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Ah.

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I mean

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I'm all in favor of Spartan IVs being like Space Marines versus the "Custodes" of the IIs

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More general purpose and long-term survivable instead of being practical art projects.

bronze delta
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Yeah, but lycanthrope-like regeneration?

empty bloom
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Hell, unless it's been retconned, a IV will survive longer in a methane atmosphere than Chief could.

bronze delta
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Don't get me wrong, I fully support with all the evidence that the IV's are superior to the II's

empty bloom
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Especially over a period of months.

bronze delta
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Eh, that is true

next jacinth
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Although 343 lore is kinda ehhh with these things

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For me itā€™s like 4s were preferred because they can be easily mass produced

bronze delta
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They are biologically superior. The only argument that might be made is the Spartan-II's training

next jacinth
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2s are super hard to make because of the training required and time

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and even then itā€™s not fully guaranteed

bronze delta
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The II's were hard to make because the technology was new

next jacinth
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But when it succeeds itā€™s a valuable soldier

next jacinth
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But 2s I think are more equipped if Iā€™m remembering correctly

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Because they are more valuable compared to 4s

bronze delta
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Not so; they receive the same equipment

next jacinth
bronze delta
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Most S-II's upgraded their kits to GEN2. Those that preferred to stay with GEN1 had to have their suits upscaled to meet the standards.

As well, in terms of their augmentations, those of the Spartan-IV's improve upon the Spartan-II and III augmentations, and exceed them in many areas

next jacinth
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Because since 2s canā€™t be mass produced I thought they were given more armor

bronze delta
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Especially in terms of endurance and resilience

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The II's can't be "mass produced" because of Halsey's restrictions and standards

unique rune
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S-IIs couldn't be mass produced because finding children that matched the specific genetic profile that wouldn't kill 99% of them was hard and building the armor was hella expensive at the time

next jacinth
unique rune
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Even with the "proper" genetic screening they functionally offed half of them at first anyway

next jacinth
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Since quite a few candidates either failed or died during augmentation

unique rune
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The S-II program represents a flawed prototype at best, even if the final results were undoubtedly effective

bronze delta
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The rate of failure and death is still quite murky; many of those were just covertly reassigned

next jacinth
unique rune
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I mean. They pretty much did it with S-III before S-IV

next jacinth
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Especially since a lot of the Spartan 4s are either veterans or ODST

bronze delta
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With the advances in technology, you really shouldn't

unique rune
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Technology marches on

next jacinth
bronze delta
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What's more, the Spartan-II's are old. Their augmentations weren't built to last forever, and they don't get the benefit of regular upkeep like the S-IV's do

unique rune
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That doesn't mean S-IIIs weren't better in most regards

next jacinth
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With noble 6 was the armor abilities but had fall damage

next jacinth
bronze delta
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Eh, the S-III's are pretty much the same as the S-II's. Their advantage came in numbers, and the difference of the augmentations being drug-based rather than surgical

next jacinth
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I would give a somewhat alright example but itā€™s another franchise

unique rune
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Everyone says they were "cheaply made cannon fodder" even though they utilized top of the line augmentation procedures and enhanced training protocols to ensure that even with the widened candidate pool that every single one would be an incredibly effective soldier

bronze delta
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And they were

next jacinth
bronze delta
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Even with the high-casualties, S-III's were often sent in against entire facilities with thousands of Covenant soldiers. They were exceptionally effective

unique rune
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Calling them suicide missions isn't really accurate

next jacinth
unique rune
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They were high-risk/high-value missions that only Spartans could be expected to succeed in

next jacinth
bronze delta
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Spartan-II's were sent on precision missions, not frontal assaults

next jacinth
unique rune
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Like everyone remembers PROMETHEUS and TORPEDO but Alpha and Beta Companies had both been involved in a few missions prior to them respectively

next jacinth
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Hence they were more effective

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Spartan 3s were kinda just thrown at the covenant

unique rune
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They really weren't though

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They were given SPI armor for a reason
More than just because "oh we can't afford MJOLNIR"

SPI is very effective at its intended infiltration role

next jacinth
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Assault is throwing them at the covenant

bronze delta
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That's an overly simplified way of putting it

unique rune
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Calling the S-IIIs mere cannon fodder significantly mischaracterizes the program, I would say.
Yes, they were created as a way to "trade lives for time," but that doesn't mean they cheaped out on the program and made inferior soldiers. In spite of the time and budget restrictions, S-III created supersoldiers every bit as effective as their S-II predecessors thanks to tech and training improvements.

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Like SPI armor isn't even necessarily worse than MJOLNIR PAA, it's just a whole other thing with considerably different design goals.

bronze delta
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And the S-III's were capable of wearing MJOLNIR

unique rune
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Thinking back on the -IIIs again I think as a whole they kinda echo one of Mendezā€™s lines to John in The Fall of Reach, the one about spending lives vs wasting them

bronze delta
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Absolutely. The biggest problem with the S-III's was that Ackerson didn't respect the project, and treated it as a means to an end. Treated them like hardware

cerulean topaz
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S-II's, S-III's, S-IV's...
where's the love for S-I's?

tribal trench
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Donā€™t we only know of one, canonically

unique rune
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I feel like we donā€™t really know enough about ORION for there to be that big a following lol

bronze delta
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Not since I Love Bees was canonized

unique rune
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and everyone loves Johnson but not really because he was part of ORION

bronze delta
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I actually might have maybe included a Spartan 1.1 in one of my books

tribal trench
unique rune
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and everyone loves Johnson (but not really because he was part of ORION)

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Iā€™m saying him being part of ORION generally doesnā€™t factor into his popularity

cerulean topaz
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It definitely adds to it, but it isn't the core factor of it

unique rune
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itā€™s fun trivia but I donā€™t think anyone talks about how cool the SPARTAN-Is were because of Johnson

cerulean topaz
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honestly, the S-I's only really became noteworthy again after MCC canonized the Orion armor, since it seems like the S-IV's sorta replaced them wholesale within the context of being the most 'human' if that makes sense.

fair hazel
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i dont think so?

orchid kettle
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I'd rather Johnson and Forge be good at their job just because they're good at their job

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No further explanation required.

obsidian thistle
bronze delta
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No, not necessarily "peak human". More just showing exceptional promise

bronze delta
obsidian thistle
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Class 2 has outright said not to progress beyond Halsey not liking the candidate pool

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(Doesn't mean they didnt go ahead and use some candidates for the SIII program. Thats still possible)

junior beacon
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Does anyone know where I can read/get Halo books? I'm looking for one in particular called: Shadow of Intent

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Can't find it anywhere

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Oh, nvm I finally found it šŸ˜…

abstract yarrow
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Honestly, itā€™s kind of sus.

One of a few things that happen in the campaign that seem a little off. Like thereā€™s no reason to put it in instead of just a few days later. They then keep reminding you of this odd fact that a critically injured Chief survived adrift in space for half a year.

They definitely are playing with the idea of simulations and AI being able to do that in the multiplayer story. Itā€™s not impossible that the Chief is currently in one of Cylexes or that an AI is manipulating his perceptions of reality. That what heā€™s seeing either isnā€™t entirely true or is just a simulation.

Like if you wanted a mad twist like in Halo CE where Halo is a super weapon that upends the story; that would be an option.

obsidian thistle
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Its an anthology book that has that and more!

bronze delta
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It depends on the Spartan themselves, and how much plot armor they have

bronze delta
unique rune
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Not reallyā€¦? The simple fact of the matter is that the S-IIs have gotten a lot more exposure than the S-IIIs and are given a lot more room to show off

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Compared to the Spartan-IIIs where most of what we have on two entire companies of them was ā€œdrilled hard as children, then they all got killedā€

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Kind of the same with the S-IVs, thereā€™s just hardly any material to work with compared to the S-IIs whoā€™re the stars of like, half of all Halo novels.

quasi gull
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is wheatley canon? in portal 2 ending, wheatley got launched out into space, and you know 343 guility spark? thats wheatley. (blue eye) just some silly users slightly redesigned wheatley

bronze delta
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343 Guilty Spark WAY outdates Wheatley and Portal 2

quasi gull
#

nuh uh||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹||||ā€‹|| _ _ _ _ _ _<@everyone>@ripe sage

bronze delta
#

The two are absolutely unrelated

junior beacon
bitter brook
#

Hey guys I have a question, so if I wanted to play through the Halo campaigns in story timeline order ( not release dates) how would I play halo 2 and ODST?

bronze delta
#

Begin Halo 2
STOP after the level Metropolis
Begin Halo 3: ODST
STOP after Coastal Highway
RESUME Halo 2 with The Arbiter
RESUME Halo 3: ODST with Epilogue

unique rune
#

why would you ever do this to yourself

bitter brook
bronze delta
unique rune
#

time to setup H2 on two game setups so I can play the Arbiter and Chief levels simultaneously

bitter brook
bronze delta
#

Lol

#

Now THAT would be wild

unique rune
#

It fills it in by fracturing already cohesive narratives

bitter brook
unique rune
#

I mean I feel like calling ODST part of the Halo 2 story is
not really quite right?

#

ODST's campaign is its own story that happens to take place in the middle of Halo 2

#

It's not like the Chief and the Arbiter having sorta separate campaigns that intersect at a few points

bronze delta
#

Chronologically it's smack in the middle of it though, so if the goal is to be as close to Timeline as possible, it fits between Metropolis and The Arbiter

bronze delta
unique rune
#

I dunno, play the way you want, I just think trying to adhere to chronological order can be quite silly at times

bronze delta
#

At times, aye. For example most times I just finish out Halo 3: ODST before going back to Halo 2, I don't split it up by the minute

bitter brook
#

I just finished the level where Jorge died ( I am on 8/12 technical ) but Jorge dying is just as sad as I remember.

bronze delta
#

šŸ‘€

unique rune
#

ah yes the one time I felt anything other than "oh shame that armor is expensive during Reach's campaign

bronze delta
#

I still maintain that Jorge didn't actually die, strengthened as well with the Fractures Canon that he's in the Tenrai Universe

cerulean topaz
# obsidian thistle Stuff like Spartan-II Class 2 and other minor stuff.

Class 2 is odd.

Supposedly it is canon, however the reason its canon is to justify Nicole-458, who's canon status is fairly dubious since much of her only appearance is non-canon. And thats not even touching upon how she herself justifys Hayabusa, the single silliest set of canon armor from Bungies era that's yet MORE dubious in the grand scheme of things.

bronze delta
#

Oh Hayabusa... the Mainline armor that predates MJOLNIR despite MJOLNIR being cutting-edge and super Top Secret

#

Apparently Yasmine Zaman was also a part of Class 2, but died due to the augmentations. She then became the AI Melissa, stationed on the UNSC Apocalypso

#

Janissary James was also a potential candidate, but her father killed the ONI agent sent to abduct her and went into hiding

terse sage
#

So are Spartan 4's overall weaker than the 2's?

bronze delta
#

Nope

#

They're just as strong, and have several advancements beyond Spartan-II's

terse sage
#

Then why to people view them as weaker?

bronze delta
#

Because reasons

terse sage
#

I actually really like Spartan 4's

bronze delta
#

Few want to believe anything will ever surpass the Spartan II's because the Chief must remain as a Living God

cerulean topaz
#

Also: while I generally don't give much attention to fractures stuff, I still maintain that Jorge is probably alive in-universe too.

Everyone always skips the part where Kat comes up with the plan, and even says "it worked fine, it was mounted improperly after a service haul-out" in response to Carter saying the last one malfunctioned.

bronze delta
terse sage
#

How?

bronze delta
terse sage
#

I still think that James survived Reach

unique rune
# terse sage Then why to people view them as weaker?

Because most info regarding how each Spartan generation compares to the others is vague at best
Officially the S-IVs have some deficiencies compared to S-IIs that GEN2 (and presumably GEN3) compensate for

But it's not known exactly what those differences are, nor how the compensatory mechanisms scale to S-IIs or -IIIs, not to mention S-IV introduces a wide array of additional survivability augmentations that don't have any direct analogues in S-II/-III

bronze delta
unique rune
#

James-005
blamite crystal to his jetpack sent him off into space

terse sage
#

He was with Chief and Linda in the Fall of Reach

cerulean topaz
unique rune
#

He's probably dead
I can't imagine how anyone could've reasonably recovered him after Reach fell

terse sage
#

My theory is that he was picked up by an ONI prowler fleeing the planet

unique rune
#

I mean. He could have been, but the likelihood of that is incredibly slim

bronze delta
# unique rune Because most info regarding how each Spartan generation compares to the others i...

"Officially the S-IVs have some deficiencies compared to S-IIs that GEN2 (and presumably GEN3) compensate for"

Not officially, actually. There's nothing that ever canonically states the Spartan-IV's are weaker and that GEN2 compensates. The only source for that is Frankie in a non-official "interview" (basically just a fan asking him a question and recording on their phone) at a convention. Wasn't even during a panel or anything

terse sage
#

It's still possible

#

And Chief never picks up James' armor when he scans for him on the Pillar of Autumn

unique rune
#

Because he's probably either burning up in the atmosphere or hurtling into the depths of space

#

Not because some random ship happened upon him

terse sage
#

Chief survived a fall from orbit

unique rune
#

You can say "it's possible" for a lot of things but that doesn't make them probable

#

Chief survived because he had a chunk of Forerunner space metal protecting him from most of the friction from reentry

#

James had a jetpack that was on fire

terse sage
#

I'm not saying it is likely. It's just my theory

cerulean topaz
#

He also fell from orbit in Halo 4, unconscious

terse sage
#

True

unique rune
#

I mean I feel like there was enough junk around him that could've taken the brunt of reentry
And also a Forerunner shield world entry thing probably doesn't quite work the same as normal atmospheric entry

terse sage
#

We also don't know if James even did enter Reach's atmosphere

#

He could have just been floating in space

unique rune
#

If anything I'd argue that makes the chances of recovering him even worse

#

Space is big. Like. Really big. They tether astronauts to things when they spacewalk for a reason.

terse sage
#

He could have been spotted on a ship's scanners and picked up

#

Again probably not but it's just my theory

spiral jewel
#

When it comes to the Spartan 2s, is James being Spartan 005, A reference to something

bronze delta
#

He was the 5th candidate in a long list of candidates

terse sage
#

150 I believe

obsidian thistle
spiral jewel
#

But I'm not sure what a Thomas the Tank Engine reference would be doing in Halo , if it is a reference to such

last anchor
last anchor
# terse sage 150 I believe

150 checked over, 75 actually inducted, not sure how many actually aquired, I think it was less than that, 33 active

orchid kettle
#

or Buck calling IIs gods, while IVs are demi-gods

#

of course the latter you could attribute to muh training and muh experience difference

#

as well as just Buck being humble and not putting himself on the same level as the living legends

#

even though I think he's one of the most accomplished non-Spartan characters we know of

#

since Johnson and even Forge may have superhuman augs in their blood

orchid kettle
orchid kettle
#

No augs, no experience, barely any training compared to what they'll really get later on

#

and they're still beating navy seals as 2nd graders

cerulean topaz
# obsidian thistle Its canon as far as it never went to candidates getting selected! (Encyclopedia ...

as I said; it's canon status is weird, especially since the older 2009 and 2011 editions acknowledged concepts tied to Class-2 with information that didn't quite line up with Class-1 fully, and prior to parting ways with 343, O'Connor having been on record confirming that much of that information was still canon (though very much on the same level as Fallout Tactics is for Fallout as a series)

orchid kettle
#

At this point, they really are just gods

cerulean topaz
#

Obviously newer information takes precedence, but in the absence of major contradiction, it lays in a bit of a grey zone.

On the one hand, it has to exist due to the existence of Nicole-458, and the repeated confirmation that she is indeed a canon Spartan-II, as there was only 150 Spartan-II candidates in the program.

on the other hand, much of the information on Class 2 lines up more with the Spartan-III's Alpha Company, which would track since the Spartan-III's replaced the Spartan-II's, and were still largely the same in most regards.

obsidian thistle
#

As said however. Class 2 isnt canon in the way ILBs depicts. The 2022 Encyclopedia is VERY clear on it aha.

Only way for it to work is if 343i make it tied to the SIII program.

#

"The second class of SPARTAN-II was cancelled due to a lack of sufficient candidates," - Halo Encyclopedia, page 071

worldly imp
#

hey guys ive done a crap ton of research and ive found out how to make MJOLNIR and ODST armor in real life with all the features while still being exactly like the game design

unique rune
#

Iā€™m sure the military industrial complex would love to have a word with you

orchid kettle
#

Never tell the fossil fuel companies you found out how to make a car that runs on water like in Halo

fair hazel
#

Nicole's canon number wouldnt be 458

fair hazel
cerulean topaz
#

As folks were saying earlier, The augmentations of Spartan IV's is supposed to be on an equal footing with S-II's, and in some lore cases a bit better than them.

However, in-game (especially Halo 4's main campaign) they're presented as basically ODST's with overshields, who can barely take down a Jackal.

#

Mind you, that is one of those gameplay =/= story moments like the Elites in Halo 3, however for a first outing, most people weren't impressed

cerulean topaz
#

Really nothing to do with the recent conversational subject matter, just an observation more to do with how they're going about that content

fair hazel
#

Yeah not really inconsistency. a gameplay thing

bronze delta
cerulean topaz
bronze delta
#

Only one cutscene did that, and it was noted to be noncanonical

cerulean topaz
#

The intro, the end credits, or the first meeting with palmer?

#

I honestly don't hold it against 4 for having those issues given its rushed development, but it is largely where I think most of the "S-IV's can't compete with S-II's" rhetoric came from

bronze delta
#

The end credits. The intro didn't juxtapose S-II's to S-IV's, and the meeting with Palmer didn't show him as a behemoth next to her. Neither did the cutscene in the Mammoth level

cerulean topaz
#

While it was nowhere near as comical as it was in the credit sequence, the shot composition did still highlight how he was taller than she was during the infamous "thought you'd be taller" scene

#

(Which was honestly meant to be the joke, yet a lot of folks didn't catch)

bronze delta
#

I don't think it does, since they're lined up pretty much eye-to-eye.

The line itself, though, I think is multi-layered. It speaks to the Legend that John-117 became (think Paul Bunyan), and could also be funny as Steve Downes is much shorter than expected

#

As well, during that shot and others, the other S-IV's are pretty much on-height with John

heady geyser
spiral jewel
#

were the Canon and TVS version of Silver Team (Kai, Riz and Vannak) Wash-outs , or were they some of the large handful that survived augmentation?

dusty ferry
#

i think the thing was they were other candidates that weren't taken

#

maybe

terse sage
#

Do we know what happened to Omega Team?

heady geyser
gilded mason
heady geyser
#

For real?

gilded mason
#

Yeah

unique rune
#

Yeah, theyā€™ve got canon counterpartsā€¦ further muddying Spartan-II numbers. Blagh.

#

Someday I hope we can move on from this obsession with S-II

gilded mason
#

Seriously

terse sage
#

So how many Spartan 2's are known to be active?

#

I know of 7

gilded mason
#

Blue, Red, Gray, Naomi, and maybe three from Omega?

terse sage
#

Omega was confirmed to have survived, so probably

unique rune
#

Currently itā€™s almost 15 or so I think

terse sage
#

How many are in Gray?

unique rune
#

3

gilded mason
#

3

terse sage
#

That's 14

#

Any others we know to be alive?

gilded mason
#

Nope

bronze delta
#

Halopedia has a good list of active and MIA Spartan-II's

gilded mason
#

Besides washed out ones, at least

spiral jewel
#

As far as I'm aware, Maria-062 is alive but inactive (having a family of course)

gilded mason
#

Forgot about her

spiral jewel
#

I'm still wishing she'd get more media attention

terse sage
#

So 14 active but 15 alive total

#

+all the ones who washed out

#

Do we know how many Spartan 3's are left?

bronze delta
#

I'd think that'd be much harder to tell

terse sage
#

Since there were so many more?

bronze delta
#

Yeah

heady geyser
terse sage
#

And others like them I think

#

I thought there were more than just Noble team

heady geyser
#

I always wonder how did Jorge get on noble team because he was a Spartan II

terse sage
#

I thought that too

heady geyser
#

Nvm I found the answer

dusty ferry
#

what is it?

cerulean topaz
#

We can Confirm Jun and Rosenda are still alive and active

bronze delta
#

And Lucy

unique rune
#

Granted, most of them are probably not in active combat roles due to the whole thing with their... unique augmentations.

bronze delta
#

Only Gamma had the non-standard augments, I believe?

gilded mason
#

Yeah, though Gamma is really the only company left for the most part.

dusk jetty
#

I believe all remaining spartan 3ā€™s were offered a chance in the spartan IV program, so thatā€™d make what, maybe 600 4ā€™s at this point? Maybe 500? Probably about 400 or so, after Laconia.

bronze delta
#

I don't think they'd be considered 4's, but more just a part of the Spartan Branch

dusk jetty
#

Probably. When I read the article on Halopedia, it just said the program, so I jumped to the conclusion that they were genuine 4ā€™s, not just.. officers or something.

bronze delta
#

Well with the Spartan Branch, there aren't really ranks anymore. They're all Spartans. There is a Spartan Commander (like Palmer and Agryna) who lead battalions of 300~ Spartans. Then there are Spartan Handlers who direct a grouping of Fireteams, and Fireteam Leaders that direct their individual Fireteams.

But technically, Spartan Thorne is the same rank as Commander Palmer - Spartan.

unique rune
#

Last I checked most of the remaining S-IIIs (what with them primarily being Gammas) were shuffled around into stuff like various ONI administrative positions to minimize the risk of their smoothers running out in a combat zone.

Other surviving -IIs and -IIIs were offered the opportunity to be folded into Spartan Operations but I think a lot of them have still elected to stay Navy?

bronze delta
#

Some of the II's stayed Navy, some joined the Spartan Branch. Other III's like Lucy and her partner (forget his name) joined the Spartan Branch as well

unique rune
#

Tom-B292

not to be confused with Thom-A293 because that isnā€™t confusing at all

tribal trench
unique rune
#

Officially theyā€™re all just Spartan
Fireteam leader and commander are more informal ranks to make sure things still run smoothly

tribal trench
#

Huh

#

Alright, neat

orchid kettle
unique rune
#

In a way itā€™s a bit like how the captain of a ship may not necessarily hold the rank of captain

orchid kettle
#

Like Buck was apparently a Spartan Commander on some other ship

#

but he's obviously not one anymore

tribal trench
#

Oooh

bronze delta
#

It all depends on the situation at the moment

orchid kettle
#

and even if he was, he'd only have the special authority of Spartan Commander over the detachment of Spartans he was specifically assigned to look after

tribal trench
#

Alright, thanks for clearing that up

orchid kettle
#

I assume

tribal trench
#

Makes a lot of sense

bronze delta
#

For example as well, Sarah Palmer is the Spartan Commander of the UNSC Infinity. If the Infinity is no more, then Spartan Palmer would just be a Spartan

orchid kettle
#

In a way, I can appreciate the want to just streamline ranks

#

because youd figure from a story perspective all you really need is Guy, Leader Guy, and Big Leader Guy

#

regardless if you call them "Private", "Sergeant", and "Captain"

tribal trench
#

Spartans are the Elite

orchid kettle
#

but man it was real confusing at first

tribal trench
#

Do Spartans outrank their non-officer friends in other branches?

bronze delta
#

NOpe

orchid kettle
#

handlers are still a really weird concept, which we havent seen since spartan ops I don't think

orchid kettle
#

than maybe if the Spud deems it super necessary

#

they can adopt the orphan marines

bronze delta
#

On page 33 of the Spartan Field Guide it states that a Spartans authority doesn't extend beyond the Branch, but other members of the UNSC may still defer to their authority and experience

orchid kettle
#

Well it says "Rarely does their status as a commissioned officer come into play."

bronze delta
#

One sec, lemme grab it

unique rune
bronze delta
#

"All Spartans receive a direct commission as an officer in the UNSC. Be aware that a Spartan's authority does not typically extend outside of his or her chain of command. However, UNSC personnel will defer to your expertise in most combat situations and you are expected to take the initiative in any emergency. Spartans follow when necessary but always lead from the front."

tribal trench
#

Are the IIs still navy officers or are they part of the Branch?

bronze delta
#

Some stayed Navy, some joined Spartans

orchid kettle
#

when there should only be, you know, several hundred

unique rune
#

Yeahā€¦

orchid kettle
#

lots of helmets about spartan fighter pilots specifically if I recall

#

but I don't think we've ever heard of a character being one

icy yoke
#

COMMANDER palmer, put aside as in charge of Spartans aboard

calm dome
#

So is the genesis key still around??

obsidian thistle
#

It wasnt destroyed. Just in the hands of the installation's monitor! *Janus Key btw

eager saddle
orchid kettle
#

Master Chief is too cool so he stayed in the Navy

eager saddle
#

So if they're still Navy, they have ranks, if they are in the standalone Spartan branch, then they're stripped of rank?

orchid kettle
#

Basically

scarlet hinge
#

becoming a Spartan automatically gives you an authority in the UNSC equivalent to an officer's commission

eager saddle
scarlet hinge
#

it goes somewhat in-depth into the Spartan IVs - it's not something covered as much in the novels

#

the relevant bits are on this page^

scarlet hinge
crimson grove
#

Hey people...Any guess on how many Spartan IIs are left by the end Halo Infinite ?

orchid kettle
#

I don't think we've heard of any of them dying between 5 and Infinite

#

considering how much backlash they got for offing Black Team in the Escalation comics, I'd be surprised if they ever confirmed a II died again

orchid kettle
#

assuming the ORION members having these kids are around Johnson's age

#

and Johnson is old enough to be a grandpa

#

or was, in 2552

tribal trench
#

Physically they are only in their 30s or 40s

scarlet hinge
orchid kettle
#

Its just a bit strange that so many are starting a family this late in their life

tribal trench
#

mentally they are also only around that age

#

cryo and all that

orchid kettle
#

I honestly never really believed the idea that characters are decades younger because of cryo

#

I remember doing some maths about a ship making a direct jump from Reach to Earth in 4 days

#

which kinda ends up meaning you should be able to jump from Earth to the furthest colony in about one month and a half

#

and surely the UNSC would try and spread out their fleet so ships aren't constantly making trips that long all the time

#

Like, if you're part of a ship that's part of 5 battles per year, and you're constantly covering the entire radius of human space

#

sure, 2/3s of your time in the UNSC is spent frozen

#

but as the outer colonies dwindle to next to nothing in the 2530s

#

I know the cole protocol is a thing as well, which is introduced around the same time

#

but if you're leaping from inner colony to inner colony, the trips probably shouldnt be more than a couple weeks at a time, even if you double the original length to account for the cole protocol

empty bloom
#

Agh.

empty bloom
heady geyser
#

So what are we talking about today

tropic forge
#

That is with some replacement organs, and Cole would've spent a lot of his career on ice.

#

I don't think you're going to get many other characters that get to decades plural though.

terse sage
#

Jerome and Red Team are biologically at least 20 years younger than the other spartans

versed helm
#

If you could remove one Spartan from lore, who would it be

orchid kettle
#

probably the guy from Nightfall who somehow got de-augmented

#

which surely must have included cutting his skeleton down to size and stripping it of the unbreakable ceramic whatever layer

boreal bane
#

Randall-037?

orchid kettle
#

which just sounds ridiculous, considering its ultimately just to explain why he's not that tall compared to Locke

#

when surely you could just have the character stand on a milk crate or do some creative shot composition

dull tiger
boreal bane
#

I'd probably nuke Chief tbh

fair hazel
#

Emile

empty bloom
empty bloom
unique rune
#

I'd probably pick... Carter, maybe?

gilded mason
#

Why Carter?

terse sage
empty bloom
#

What he doin

gilded mason
#

Askin' questions he doesn't have a lot of investment in.

unique rune
#

Every time I revisit Reach I question why he exists at all

gilded mason
#

lmao

terse sage
#

I really like Carter

gilded mason
empty bloom
#

And Emile

#

Moreso the latter

terse sage
#

Heresy

empty bloom
#

Not Chief or Emile because I hate mid characters.

terse sage
#

As in for him being a good or bad character?

empty bloom
#

Second statement clarifies first.

#

... At dying and being dumb maybe

#

... Wait seriously?

terse sage
#

Just my take

unique rune
#

I don't mind Emile too much even if I think he's kinda hilariously overdone
because I do think there could be something there

...Had Reach bothered to do much with its characters, at least

empty bloom
#

@tribal trench

#

What the heck?

terse sage
empty bloom
#

Use this as argument fuel, please.

unique rune
#

But Carter just sort of... is there. I dunno why they felt a need to make a whole separate character for Carter when all he really does is shut down Emile and Jorge when they butt heads and relay Kat's ideas to their superiors

tribal trench
terse sage
#

Fair

#

I like his armor

empty bloom
tribal trench
#

You know you arent allowed to bypass the profanity filter, and the other word should be in there too

#

Will look into it

terse sage
#

Sorry

empty bloom
#

yeah that's fair

terse sage
#

Should I remove it?

empty bloom
#

Bypassing I mean

empty bloom
#

Hence why i sent a screenshot to modmail

terse sage
#

Trenchbird my bad

empty bloom
#

I do not care

#

I swear more profusely on servers I directly moderate

#

This chat's pretty uh

#

friendly by comparison

#

So you getting away with that serves as nothing more than emphasis that this server needs some help.

terse sage
#

It got removed

#

I didn't delete it

empty bloom
#

This server could be done better at times, and that's not its fault, just a statement of truth.

#

I hope to improve its inconsistencies into consistencies rather than get banned from it for showing weak spots.

#

Buuuut still.

#

Perhaps an exhaustive ban word list might improve it somewhat.

tribal trench
#

Talk about lore in lore chat or nothing at all, please

empty bloom
#

Halos are stupid concepts and the Forerunners are very dumb for putting all their eggs in some jolly green jerk.

#

@tribal trench Lore enough?

#

:kekw:

tribal trench
#

i actually agree with this

#

ecumene should have gone with either of the Didactā€™s suggestions

#

or both

empty bloom
#

I mean Chief as a concept being floated as being AI voiced, not to speak out of current reality, is absolutely ghoulish.

#

I would drop this franchise in a heartbeat if they do something that disgusting.

tribal trench
#

chief being AI voiced as in Downes no longer being the VA?

empty bloom
#

Yes.

tribal trench
#

yesā€¦

#

i would also be inclined to agree there

empty bloom
#

I don't like Jerome but I'd rather he be the new "Chief" over some AI.

tribal trench
#

why is this being brought up? some news iā€™m not aware of?

empty bloom
tribal trench
#

is this the type of content that falls under rule 2?

empty bloom
tribal trench
#

i meant the second paragraph

empty bloom
#

I think that Halo was being deconstructive when they focused on a dead enemy at the pseudo-collected thoughts of a should-be nonaffiliated youtuber.

plush compass
#

What YouTuber are you talking about

empty bloom
tidal grail
#

Guys, it is possible for the Master Chief to hit the griddy?

tribal trench
#

master chief could hit the sickest griddy imaginable

tidal grail
#

Imagine Master Chief defeating someone like Atriox and then he goes and hits the griddy

meager field
#

when the forerunners learned the precursors were residing in a "nearby star system" and plotting to wipe out their race -- does that mean a nearby galaxy? or a nearby solar system within the same galaxy?

#

tl;dr: what does "nearby star system" mean in Halo lore?

native burrow
#

yo, I finished the first strike but im not sure what exactly are the pillars on reach?

scarlet hinge
#

you can read the novel Shadows of Reach to see that followed-up on

obsidian thistle
#

You can also see it in Reach if memory serves šŸ˜‰

terse sage
#

The intro to Halo Wars 2 always confused me

#

How is Serina talking to Cutter if she is supposed to have deleted herself?

gilded mason
#

Prerecorded message with a bit of a time variable built into it.

terse sage
#

Then how did she know where they were?

dusty ferry
#

She didn't? At least, from what i remember

gilded mason
#

Yeah, Pretty sure it was just "I don't know what's happening, sorry."

dusty ferry
#

I mean, Serina is a goated AI. She redesigns a ton of UNSC hardware in like 6-7 years, and plotted the most efficient course back into UNSC space, and continued development of the cryotech Anders was working on

#

If anyone could unironically see the Spirit of Fire being taken to the Ark in however many years, it would be her

abstract timber
#

How long hasn't MasterChief cut his beard or hair during the entire time the whole franchise takes place? Like every single game included

orchid kettle
#

except for the Pilot, the chosen one

#

The real question is: how has every single Marine managed to remain perfectly clean shaven after six months on the ring

dusty ferry
#

shaving stuff in the standard kit?

#

genetic modification?

#

who knows

orchid kettle
#

I like to think the brutes are bored so they keep their human prisoners perfectly groomed

dusk jetty
#

After reading rubicon I donā€™t think thatā€™s what brutes do when theyā€™re bored

terse lava
#

Yeah typically are...less than cordial. Like to think there are some that go against the grain their species is known for. Comic Atriox being a good example

unborn ice
#

i cant wait for epitaph they somehow managed to completely waste a perfectly setup character by greg bear for an entire decade

bronze delta
terse sage
bronze delta
orchid kettle
#

I can't believe Frankie defeated Escharum in single combat and stole his hair

bronze delta
#

Facts. The Escharum the Chief fought? Hahaha- FOOLS! It was all a wig!

terse sage
#

According to the propaganda grunt, it was 3 grunts in a brute suit

orchid kettle
#

We're all 3 grunts in a suit

heady geyser
icy yoke
#

UNSC reverse engineered Covenant shield tech. So one wonders if they developed personal infantry shield

dusty ferry
#

they just kinda forgot to do that i guess

#

probably lost the budget allocation for it between the 300+ mjolnir subtypes and rebuilding the fleet

#

i kid, they at least are looking into it based on the tier 100 reward on the season 2 battlepass

unique rune
#

I feel like shields like these wouldn't be very useful for the UNSC

#

Considering they kinda force the wielder to use a firearm one-handed which I doubt is very practical for unaugmented personnel

empty bloom
#

It's theoretically easier due to HUDs.

#

Though IRL there are shields that exist that are mobile enough to be used with long arms two-handed. Doesn't sound too out of possibility for the UNSC to adopt that style of shield for specialist COIN units.

indigo arch
#

I like how the UNSC basically builds it ships around a gun

#

šŸ˜‚

#

Like, the frigates, specially the Paris class frigates are guns with engines, slipspace drives, and a cargo bay

terse sage
#

Yep

#

Whole thing, built around the MAC

empty bloom
#

Now it's built around lasers!

bronze delta
#

I mean, a lot of the warships also do have point defense guns, support ship bays, and crew quarters

fair hazel
#

Thereā€™s a wrist attachment meant for jackal energy shields

terse sage
#

Infinity was basically a flying city from what I heard

cerulean topaz
fair hazel
#

Yep. It says for a full reimplementation of jackal portable shield generators

dusty ferry
#

One of the up armor bucklers said ā€œdespite rumors, there is no shield generator in this plateā€ Iā€™m guessing that object was intended to test a human jackal style shield

#

Or something

#

There is no reason to specifically call out the lack of a shield in a UA buckler otherwise

empty bloom
#

Eh

#

There is

#

And it's specifically to disseminate rumors about something it doesn't actually do

#

Considering there actually is tech designed for doing that, I'd say it's telling the truth.

orchid kettle
#

I mean, who is the text trying to convince

#

the Spartan wearing it that may have heard said rumors

#

or the audience, who obviously haven't heard these rumors

#

though I guess with how benign a lot of text blurbs are, it's not unreasonable that the lore is just that people think its cooler than it actually is

dusty ferry
#

At the very least, it confirms people think something like a jackal energy shield is being tested

icy yoke
#

Advent of directed energy weapons led development new ship types

vast edge
#

I'm trying to wrap my head aropund the events leading up to Zeta Halo

#

So the Banished found Zeta Halo and decided to make it their base -> then Cortana went to Zeta halo to give Atriox an Ultimatum -> UNSC followed Cortana to Zeta Halo -> The Banished attached the UNSC and sent MC to float in space -> Cortana destroyed the Brutes homeworld -> The Banished is going to fire Zeta Halo -> Cortana sacrificed herself to disable to ring -> MC wakes up to see the ring is broken... is this all accurate?

orchid kettle
#

Im pretty sure the Banished weren't already on the ring, its just like-- the UNSC got ambushed in the middle of Chief trying to deploy the Weapon to stop Cortana

#

Cortana blowing up Doisac came way earlier

#

I also don't think Atriox was ever planning to fire the ring-- he just wanted to free the Endless for whatever reason

#

and you need the Silent Auditorium to do that. But Cortana blows it up, which is why the whole game is about Zeta trying to repair itself so it'd make a new Silent Auditorium

bronze delta
#

As best I can gather (and it's too early for me to slog through for dates):

Created Uprising
Infinity goes on the run
Galaxy-wide chaos as the Created enforce authoritarian "peace"
2559, Blue Team is deployed undercover to Reach to recover Halsey's cloned brains in order to create the Weapon.
Atriox and some of his Banished arrive on Reach, returning to the Milky Way galaxy through the Menachite portal complex
Infinity flees
Cortana meets with Atriox and attempts to force his surrender
Doisac is destroyed
Infinity arrives at Zeta Halo
The Banished arrive shortly after and ambush the Infinity. The Weapon is deployed to Zeta Halo, and John-117 remains to repel the Banished

terse sage
#

I think the Banished were already there at Zeta Halo

dusty ferry
#

How do we feel about the art style change in halo post reach

#

I liked it. The unsc felt like it had completely advanced

#

Both technologically, and culturally

#

The weapons changed and were more curved and smooth which I felt reflected that

#

You saw that in the new mjolnir

#

Chiefs Mark VI mod having a similar look gave the vibe that the change was truly better

#

The storm covenant being so rugged felt like a natural extension of the Destruction of the covenant sphere in the great schism

#

The grunts looked like their equipment was built out of trash or spare parts.

#

The storm rifle always looked and felt like the worst weapon ever made

orchid kettle
#

Im generally a CE-2 purist when it comes to covenant designs myself

dusty ferry
#

The jackals were more dinosaur like for added savagery

orchid kettle
#

Love me the blue-skinned grunts of early games

#

contrasted very well with the bright orange or red they wore

terse sage
#

My favorite Covenant design is Reach (not the brutes tho)

orchid kettle
#

They already have the same leg structure, they both bleed purple

terse sage
#

I did confuse Jackals for elites several times

dusty ferry
#

I could get into the more vibrant forerunner architecture of requiem, but that would be complicated

orchid kettle
#

in Halo 4 and 5, I cant tell Elite Rangers from Jackal Rangers half the time

dusty ferry
#

And dredging up the forerunner retcon

orchid kettle
#

because they're practically the same design but one is smaller

dusty ferry
#

But I liked how it felt actually special seeing the Promethean weapons be assembled in your hands the first time you pick one up

dusty ferry
terse sage
#

I like the Banished more than the halo 4-5 covenant remnant

dusty ferry
#

I do too, but I enjoy the storm covenant as a narrative device/ indicator of whatā€™s going on with those species

#

I wish halo 5 had separated the swords with different models beyond just ā€œredā€

orchid kettle
#

Too bad the Storm isn't their official name

dusty ferry
#

Not like the vehicles or anything, but more the armor. Have the grunts in stylized variations of old covenant armor, have the elites in something similar

orchid kettle
#

Its real cool sounding

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

No

#

its just Jul's Covenant

#

or Covenant Remnant

dusty ferry
#

I know they change to didacts hand later

orchid kettle
#

Jul HIMSELF is the Didact's Hand

dusty ferry
#

Thatā€™s dumb

orchid kettle
#

not the whole group I think

dusty ferry
#

Why would they do that

orchid kettle
#

"oh these are the same aliens anyway so lets call them the Covenant"

#

but it ended up confusing a lot of people instead

dusty ferry
dusty ferry
dusty ferry
#

Honestly, can we get the sanghelios missions from 5, but as an entire game?

#

I would pay all the money to see how much of a clusterluck that would be

orchid kettle
#

Elites in 4-5 feel ill suited for that era's design philosophy for Covenant objects

#

Like there's a clear goal to make everything sleeker, smoother, insectoid,

#

But the Elites are bulkier and more awkward then they've ever been

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, honestly, there could possibly be racism in the lore about why we donā€™t see that subgroup

#

Which would be interesting on a narrative level

orchid kettle
#

There's infinite concept art of Brutes in Halo 4-5 covenant armor style

#

And it really doesn't work

#

compared to the space orc aesthetic they have going on in HW2 and Infinite

dusty ferry
#

Can I have a picture of that?

#

It sounds interesting

#

Because like, brutes barely followed covenant style armor in 2-reach

#

There was a clear distinction between normal covenant, and whatever was up with the brutes

orchid kettle
#

The first one has some real Buzz Lightyear vibes

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, that doesnā€™t work well at all

#

I canā€™t remember brutes being mostly armor at any point unless they were chieftains or something

vast edge
#

are shield worlds completely artificial, or is it just the outer shell?

unique rune
#

All artificial

tribal trench
#

Didnā€™t Sarcophagus use a real sun for itā€™s core?

dusty ferry
#

Itā€™s possible, but most if not all of the actual planet would be artificial

dusty ferry
#

I just realized Chief brings up Halsey when talking about cortana's rampancy because Halsey is basically the SII's mom

orchid kettle
#

Well also because Halsey made Cortana

dusty ferry
#

i mean yeah, but fixing a smart ai is by cortana's admission impossible

#

sure, Halsey is the best mind in the UNSC, but it also works as someone reaching out and hoping their parent has the answer

fair hazel
terse sage
dusty ferry
#

yeah, but that's after chief brings up Halsey

#

i think

tribal trench
#

Halsey actually isnā€™t ā€œinā€ the UNSC

#

Sheā€™s a civilian contractor

#

Regardless, iā€™m 99% sure john only mentioned her because her brain was the one that cortana sprung out of

#

call her Athena that way

terse sage
#

Why is installation 04 called Alpha halo? Does Alpha usually mean first?

unique rune
#

It fires first when the whole array is activated

#

Despite being the fourth Neoteric ring constructed

orchid kettle
#

Is it ever called Alpha Halo in any of the games or books

terse sage
#

If you look up Alpha Halo it says installation 04

orchid kettle
#

What I mean is, is there dialogue where a character says "Alpha Halo"

#

Characters in Infinite call 07 Zeta Halo all the time

terse sage
#

Not sure

#

But it is the canon name I think

orchid kettle
#

I know, I just wonder if its one of those names that purely exists in guide books

#

and not really nomenclature any living character uses

terse sage
#

I do find it funny that the campaign description if Infinite is "unravel the mysteries of Zeta Halo" yet it leaves more questions than answers

orchid kettle
#

I remember hearing that Infinite's campaign ended up only being like, a third of the story they wanted to tell

#

Which kinda makes sense. It does feel like the Endless have only just been unleashed

#

which feels like we're at the end of act 1

terse sage
#

I still have no idea what the Endless even are

orchid kettle
#

They're like

#

you know

#

without end

terse sage
#

It did feel like setup for another story

#

Tbh I thought the Endless was another name for the Flood in my first playthrough

orchid kettle
#

I like to think they don't have physical bodies at all

#

and exist as like, brain code they can transfer from one body to another

#

Some sort of brain reprogramming must be going on with Lucas Browning after all

#

where no matter how hard he tries, he can't repeat the information the Harbinger told him

terse sage
#

Is he still alive? They left that open-ended in Rubicon Protocol

orchid kettle
#

and instead ends up repeating his own UNSC service number over and over

#

I think so

#

Maybe not for long now that the Harbinger's dead

#

Banished may not see a reason to keep her boy toy around

terse sage
#

I hope the rest of the boat crew got him out

orchid kettle
#

I hope so too

terse sage
#

We don't see Lucas in the tower tho

#

And that is where they were going to rescue him

empty bloom
# orchid kettle I hope so too

Huh. I just realized-Since Vettel was last seen at the tower and he has no final audio log, maybe he rescued Browning instead of Griffin for one reason or another.

terse sage
#

Hope so

empty bloom
#

It leaves that option pretty open, as Vettel's not accounted for by any metric now.

terse sage
#

Neither is Kovan

empty bloom
#

Kovan's last known whereabouts is more solid than just 'completely gone after last saying he was doing a thing' tbf.

terse sage
#

We know that Kovan and the boat crew were planning to rescue Browning

empty bloom
#

And I actually like the concept of the Endless actually being an infohazard instead of something more physical. It would also explain why Atriox is so knowledgeable about all of this, and why his name is so nonstandard for a brute-he may've been re-coded by an Endless at some point in the past.

#

As Atriox's name isn't Roman in origin-more signs point to it being Gaelic in origin, and not even a pun, which would make it a breach in Jiralhanae naming conventions.

terse sage
#

We also know that Horvath is somewhere on the ring

#

That is a cool theory actually

empty bloom
#

It's also insane and I kind of think it'd be weird if they went that route, tbf.

#

I'm not super okay with it because there's holes in my theory, and on second thought it reads like a certain "Flood Logic Plague" style theory to me.

dusty ferry
#

though, beta halo seems to disprove this

#

it goes alpha, gamma, delta, then possibly zeta?

#

the best answer appears to be the order in which they receive the firing command which sort of makes sense on the galactic map

orchid kettle
#

Just a lot more complete

#

Because the logic plague is just the Flood debating you so well you willingly join their side, right?

#

While with the Harbinger, I think she's just outright rewiring Browning's mind

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

But yeah, I feel like since Halo is all about fighting factions with varied enemy types

#

the Endless have to be something that allows them to take many forms for different gameplay challenges

bronze delta
#

Oh wow, sorry; I was super late to that one

versed helm
#

Do you guys think that the skimmers are part of the endless?

#

I mean they look kinda like the harbinger

dusty ferry
#

Maybe? Iā€™m not even sure if they are alive tbh. They feel like drones

#

The mini boss one is called skirmisher alpha

versed helm
#

They could be like resurrected endless

dusty ferry
#

Mayhaps itā€™s a damaged resurrection

versed helm
#

I'd say when the endless actually arrive they'll have all different ranks like the covenant and skimmers will be the equivalent of grunts

#

And the harbinger could be like a hunter

dusty ferry
#

Honestly, I think itā€™s probable the endless are uploaded consciousnesses or something. They feelā€¦ off for lack of a better term.

versed helm
#

It's possible that they're the precursors

#

Like some of them turned into the flood but others like uploaded their consciousness into the domain

#

It's confirmed that the forerunner domain is precursor in origin

dusty ferry
#

I went in depth on how I think most of the galactic threats are probably advanced tests for the chosen inheritor of the mantle somewhere

versed helm
#

It kinda feels right because the precursors have just sat there in halo's lore for so long maybe they're about to see some action

dusty ferry
#

The endless to me seem like an ethical dilemma meant as a last chance if you horrifically fail the flood test

versed helm
#

Yeah

dusty ferry
#

Mainly, ā€œhow far will you go for your plans?ā€ Or maybe ā€œare you willing to let things happen without your guidanceā€

#

Something like that

versed helm
#

Maybe if the endless are the precursors they're ashamed of how some of their species became the flood and they'll go to war

#

It's obvious that zeta halo and the precursor (and possibly endless) race are linked more so than any of the other halo rings in the array

#

Like there's an old image of the primordial standing on a hill on zeta halo

dusty ferry
#

The one thing we really know about the precursors was that they could change shape

#

And that they liked neural physics

versed helm
#

Yeah but so did the precursors

#

Which links them even more strongly

#

Maybe the endless are like a precursor splinter faction

dusty ferry
#

Perhaps, there has to be some relation somewhere

scarlet quiver
#

Note, that the Weapon named them in the campaign. So, I dont think we have their actual title.
Which has me thinking: Precursors can change forms, build worlds and create species. With tech like that, especially with the crazy neural physics, one would think that the Precursors would be... tough to fight. But the Skimmers are easy peasy, even on legendary.
If Skimmers where a form of the Precursors, would y'all be a little disappointed?

orchid kettle
#

To be honest, I've never been a fan of the Didact's villain status being the result of just being crazy

#

It feels a lot less interesting if the antagonists don't have a real motivation

#

Its kinda why I wish they had the Didact be the one who wants to awaken the Guardians and put an end to suffering and war-- with overwhelming force and total control.

#

Because then you could just see it as him, in his own twisted way, trying to uphold the philosophy of his people

#

Because you could argue that the Created as a faction do have some unique elements at play

#

the one I think of the most is the fact that you can surrender to them at all and still live some facsimile of a normal life

#

versus the Covenant and Didact wanting to vaporize you on the spot, or the 99% probability that the Banished will just gas you or eat you

tribal trench
#

All of his children were killed by us during the Human-Forerunner war and heā€™s held that grudge since then, even through the Forerunner-Flood war

#

And then in 255ā€¦6?

#

4 years, 7 months, 8 days

terse sage
#

I think 2557

tribal trench
#

I think youā€™re right

orchid kettle
#

the death of his children I mean

tribal trench
#

Iā€™d be pretty pissed if all my children died in a pointless war started by the other guy too

orchid kettle
#

Again, sure logically that makes sense

#

but it's an element barely touched on by the story itself

#

Like, in the Halo 4 terminals, which at the time were supposed to better explain the plot of Halo 4

#

All you ever hear is the Didact calling the Lord of Admirals his finest opponent, relentless enemy, killer of "our children"

#

If anything in the terminals, he seems a lot more pissed about humans "taking the Mantle upon themselves"

tribal trench
#

I see your point, yeah

orchid kettle
#

Like I just read over the transcript for the terminals, and they paint this picture of the Didact essentially just being an old racist man

#

Angry about a war that started more or less because of a miscommunication

#

Though while not really relevant to this conversation-- the Librarian saying that the human gene plan is superior to their own, or at least has the potential to be

#

That sure is a line. Thank goodness this is a human story for human audiences otherwise the Librarian talking about how we're the coolest dudes around on a genetic level would be weird

#

I really don't enjoy the idea that humanity is heading towards some ubermensch master race that keeps getting pushed whenever we delve into the Librarian's human fangirlisms

tribal trench
#

Nietzsche would be proud

orchid kettle
#

I wouldn't mind it so much if the Librarian wasn't cast as humanity's patron saint and mother goddess

#

But as is, its really creepy and it feels like the Librarian hasn't learned a thing from the failure of her people

#

Still meddling with the development of species, deciding what path they should be on

#

which just so coincidentally turns them into Forerunner 2.0

#

Very creepy

#

Haruspis had a tweet where he was talking about how much he liked the Halo 4 cover art, and he called Chief "the Librarian's Champion"

#

kinda gross ngl

#

Its kinda strange how Halo 5 Chief rightly points out how flawed the Mantle is as an idea

#

Yet the Librarian is so revered as "Humanity's mother"

tribal trench
orchid kettle
#

Ye

#

Comply or die. Or be devolved or locked to your home planet for generations

#

I think the issue is also mainly the whole "one race gets to be the galactic overlords"

#

Like I said, maybe some people don't care because WE'RE human

#

But the Mantle isn't good because the race with the best "gene-plan" gets to be god emperor

#

the problem is the idea that we need a god emperor at all

#

This is what gets me about the Librarian

#

in her mind, the Mantle isn't wrong

#

Humans just need to have it because they're so gosh darn cool

#

Imperialism but what if the RIGHT person was emperor

#

Which again, it'd be fine if the point is that the Librarian is every bit as wrong as the Didact believing that the Mantle is for Forerunners alone

#

But it doesn't feel like we're supposed to think that

tribal trench
#

Sheā€™s definitely presented as being correct, and the Mantle also isnā€™t really well defined until Chief explicitly points out how stupid it is in 5

#

Even if we had all those exact ideas from the books

orchid kettle
#

With how many writers Halo has had, I'm sure some have realized that fact

#

That the problem with the "The Mantle is for FORERUNNERS, alone." sentence is the "alone" part. Not that you have to swap Forerunner with Humans

#

But it also feels like there's a good amount of writers who going for like: "We may not BE, the Forerunners, but we are becoming them!"

#

But considering the events of the Greg Bear novels: why would anyone want to emulate the Forerunners?

tribal trench
#

Because they had reached the absolute height of civilization, before the flood/humanity came along?

orchid kettle
#

Sure, if all you see is the shiny chrome technology

#

And not like, how they subjected other races or how they ensured that the newer generations could never prosper

tribal trench
#

Their lifespans were tens or hundreds of thousands of years long

orchid kettle
#

Like, I always harp on how the Forerunner tendency to imprint themselves on their young

#

to literally mold their children in their own image

#

Means those children don't get to be their own people

#

Bornstellar is just seen as another Didact

#

a being who's presumably existed long before the Didact we fought in Halo 4, or the Didact before him

#

The old are infesting the young like a parasite

#

Never allowing them to truly change

tribal trench
#

Yeah iā€™m not necessarily defending that but thatā€™s more of a societal or cultural thing than it is relating to the Mantle

#

Weā€™ve had a similar issue in European/generally western culture for millennia

orchid kettle
#

Its why Bornstellar's happy ending is having a wife of his own choosing, casting off his armor, and dying a natural death

tribal trench
#

I think in the east as well

tribal trench
orchid kettle
#

Like Gurren Lagann, the best anime ever, says

tribal trench
#

He married Chant-To-Green right?

orchid kettle
#

the old need to stay dead so the young can take over

tribal trench
#

In another galaxy?

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, they peace out, take off their immortality armor, and live a humble, primitive life on some planet

tribal trench
#

That sounds nice

#

I really should go and reread all those books

#

He reseeded Earth with Chant-To-Green pretty much by hand, didnā€™t he?

abstract wren
#

No it was automatic

tribal trench
#

Slightly exaggeration*, he went to Earth and oversaw that particular planet himself if Iā€™m not mistaken