#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 21 of 1

bronze delta
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Right, he's not totally throwing himself into his work so much so that his entire family-team thinks it's weird and try talking to him about Cortana but he won't.

orchid kettle
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We sure are said that in a two minute cutscene

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But there's a difference between showing and telling

bronze delta
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And game dialogue all throughout

orchid kettle
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and especially when you want to have that actually be felt

bronze delta
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And the mere fact of John leaping at the possibility of Cortana being alive

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And the Entire Plotpoint of John taking personal responsibility for handling Cortana and going rogue

orchid kettle
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Yeah, because thats an extension of the newly introduced plot point of Cortana being alive

bronze delta
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And?

orchid kettle
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It doesn't have anything to do with the themes of Halo 4 like Infinite does

bronze delta
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It absolutely does, oh my gods...

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Nevermind the entire subplot of Halo 4 where it's all about "Let's find a way to Save Cortana"

orchid kettle
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Yes

bronze delta
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Ergo, Halo 5

orchid kettle
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No, saving Cortana and failing was already Halo 4

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If anything, we learn that Chief has already resolved to kill Cortana himself

bronze delta
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No, we do not learn that

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At least not right away

orchid kettle
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I mean, we do.

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That IS the story

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Its trying to deceive you a little bit into thinking Chief is being irrational

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but the "twist" is that he isn't

bronze delta
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Oh, but then even then what does he do when he finally sees her? "Baby, come home. This is whack."

orchid kettle
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Yeah

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because the plot is that somehow, Cortana has returned

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when the success of Halo 4's narrative came from the universal human experience of loss

bronze delta
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And Halo 5 builds on that human experience with the equal human experience of emotional denial and desire to be the hero

orchid kettle
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And the set up of Halo 4 is not that one day Cortana will be back as an evil dictator

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but that Chief needs to live his life to the fullest

bronze delta
orchid kettle
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No, I just remembered the themes

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There's no thematic connective tissue in Halo 5 with the other games

bronze delta
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There is, you're just willfully ignoring them.

orchid kettle
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like, Infinite at least has Rebirth

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as a companion to Halo 4's struggle with mortality

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Chief experiences loss but gains new love in the form of new human connections

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Infinite and 4 form a nice dynamic this way

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while 5 isn't really related thematically

bronze delta
# orchid kettle Chief experiences loss but gains new love in the form of new human connections

No. Absolutely not. First, you're ignoring that Blue Team is clearly identified in multiple spots in the campaign as Chief's family. Not new connections, people he grew up with. And we absolutely do not see him "gaining new love"; again, we see him obsessing over Cortana and pushing his family away. Going so far as to defying orders and doing his own thing.

All of this directly related to the "Themes" of Halo 4, and all of this directly preceding the "Theme" of Halo Infinite in where John does not trust his new AI, and learned a very hard lesson from the entirety of the events of Halo 5.

orchid kettle
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Except none of this is felt in Halo 5 proper

bronze delta
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It absolutely is

orchid kettle
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Blue Team is family because we're told in dialogue

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But there's no equivalent scene of Chief opening up and being vulnerable with another human being like there is in 4 and Infinite

bronze delta
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Yeah, and again we see that family being pushed away.

orchid kettle
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It's not enough for Locke to say "Blue team is family"

bronze delta
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Or Fred talking about their childhood

orchid kettle
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Its something that has to be felt through constant, consistent character writing

bronze delta
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You are willfully ignoring elements man

orchid kettle
orchid kettle
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that is to say

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very little at all

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Again, in storytelling, there's a difference between stating objective information

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and having the audience internalize that information via the story

bronze delta
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Look, I get that you didn't like Halo 5, but your dislike doesn't make in-game events and dialogue just not exist. Your apparently blasé blowthrough op of the storyline with tightly held disinterest doesn't erase the connections that are objectively and factually there, nor are they not present because you don't feel they were "enough", or because it didn't hold hands close enough, or because Chief didn't embrace Fred and scream "Brother!"

It's all neato-bandito, but I've got work to get to and absolutely have no interest in another circular argument over opinion and preference.

orchid kettle
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Unironically-- yes, Blue Team needs to be emotional

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Stories aren't objective facts

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they ARE emotions

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There's a reason people who only ever played the games felt nothing for Blue Team in Halo 5

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because there was no connection made, and I'd say there was no attempt on the game's part to establish a connection at all

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There's a reason people adore the Chief taking a knee and having a heart to heart with the Pilot

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Because stories are ultimately commentary on the human condition

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The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself

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Halo 5 does not get a participation trophy for showing up with loose humanoid approximations of what you or I would consider "characters" and insisting there was a story being told here

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And it is an insult to one of the oldest human crafts to say that's all you need.

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All this is moot anyway since my point was that every game went in a direction from the last.

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Did they outright retcon the last game out of existence? No, but that doesn't mean there isn't an obvious course correction.

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At the end of Halo 5, Cortana's reign begins, and by Infinite, we smash cut to its end

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A clear indicator that 343 did not believe in the Created storyline after Halo 5 premiered

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Nothing of any remotely similar scale happens in the original trilogy

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At most, Arbiter is reduced to Player 2 in co op

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but his story arc was already complete in 2

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Killing Truth was just the cherry on top

cerulean topaz
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I still wish we got an Arbiter DLC campaign ngl

orchid kettle
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But like, we start the series fighting Covenant, Flood, and Spark

cerulean topaz
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Could have recycled the parts cut from Halo 3 proper for it

orchid kettle
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and guess who we defeat at the end of 3

vast edge
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I actually find the Halo anthology books interesting but idk if the mainline games could pull it off. Isn't there also the insurrection that's still active?

orchid kettle
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In the 343 trilogy, we have Jul's Covenant, Didact, Cortana, Banished and now the Endless

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and the covenant supposedly are defeated once and for all in Halo 5's sangheilos mission

orchid kettle
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Kinda the idea about the Insurrection is that human conflict itself is the tragedy here

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Killing them is rarely ever portrayed in a purely heroic light

orchid kettle
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could have worked as like a Spartan-III sidegame with SPI armor if they didn't wanna make an alien the main guy on the box

orchid kettle
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At that point, you might as well say Halo 5 is about Colonialism because Meridian doesn't like the UNSC and Tanaka respects that

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Every story is made up of a million elements that each convey a worldview, this is true

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But some are obviously given higher priority than others

terse sage
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I did enjoy seeing Buck again

orchid kettle
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its what elevates an "element" to a theme

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Halo 5 has a lot of elements because its a big multihour, multimillion dollar campaign

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But very little to say

terse sage
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343 just lacks a consistent vision for what they want to achieve

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5 isn't a sequel to 4 and Infinite isn't a sequel to 5

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They all feel like the beginning to their own storyline that never gets followed up on

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Infinite has one of my favorite campaigns actually

orchid kettle
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Infinite had the unenviable task of picking up after Halo 5

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but as I mentioned above, I think it manages to be a better sequel to Halo 4 thematically

terse sage
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Just pretend that Halo 5 never happened and it has a chance of working

orchid kettle
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MCC?

terse sage
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I'm just waiting for any sort of follow up on Halo Wars 2's ending

orchid kettle
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like the pilot being afraid of The Weapon because she looks like her

terse sage
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Slightly alter Halo Infinite's story and it works well

orchid kettle
terse sage
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Or what the Spirit of Fire is doing. Both really

orchid kettle
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because in Divine Wind, all we know is that the Sangheili Shipmaster guy and the Brute Twins from Awakening the Nightmare are still fighting the Spirit of Fire on the Ark

vast edge
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Isn't the weapon a retcon of Cortana? She's an exact duplicate of Cortana. She was supposed to be deleted after Cortana is destroyed, but she's still around after the campaign

orchid kettle
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While Atriox has left to be in Halo Infinite

orchid kettle
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she's made from the same group of cloned brains, and later absorbs Cortana's "echo"

terse sage
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Did she name herself Cortana at the end of the Infinite campaign?

orchid kettle
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she may also name herself Cortana at the end

vast edge
orchid kettle
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personally I hope they give her her own name

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and make her her own character

terse sage
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Me too. Acknowledging Halo 5 for a minute (very painful) the name Cortana inspires too much fear now

orchid kettle
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To me its more so about preserving Cortana's death in 4

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the weapon can be voiced by jen taylor as Im sure she's on a contract

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but I want her to be new

terse sage
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Not just another Cortana

vast edge
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Speaking for Cortana, didn't she say she had legs in Halo CE?

orchid kettle
vast edge
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In CE she made a joke saying if she still had legs they'd she shaking

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Or something to that effect

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It was when they were first landing on the ring

orchid kettle
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I'm not sure if I remember that line, but I guess Smart AI's have some residual memory of being human

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since they're made by scanning human brains

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and its often just like, sensations instead of full on memories

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like Sif in Contact Harvest remembers what brushing her hair felt like

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and that seems to be it

gilded mason
bronze delta
wicked wasp
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Gunny Buck is my fav character

bronze delta
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I've got several, but my tops are Linda-058, Kelly-087, Olympia Vale and Sarah Palmer

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Even named my vehicle Linda after a near-catastropic oil leak

wicked wasp
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How does mickey become a Crew Chief and then a PILOT in a Pelican, then join the ODSTs a few years later and only a PFC??? You need to be an officer to be an aviator so idk how the hell hes a PFC.

orchid kettle
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There's a popular fan theory that ODSTs have their ranks reset

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But I think it's just because in the Bungie era, there's not a ton of concern about the UNSC being as realistic as possible

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They're like, the military in a popcorn action flick. You got privates screaming in terror, cigar-chomping Sergeants in patrol caps telling them to nut up

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and thats really as far as ranks matter

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The less headgear you have on, the higher rank you are

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Until I guess you get to Lord Hood level and you get a hat again

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We've also been told by Bungie on a couple occasions that ODSTs are veterans of other spec op units

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but I can't think of any ODST character that is confirmed to have this experience

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My assumption is that after years of poor morale during the Insurrection, and then high casualties during the Covenant war, the standard for being accepted as an ODST was lowered significantly

indigo arch
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I thought the troopers were an all volunteer group

orchid kettle
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They are. Im saying it used to be really hard to pass the test to join, but eased up over the years.

indigo arch
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Ah.

orchid kettle
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At the very least, that's how I reconcile Bungie telling us that ODSTs are super elite former navy seals turned COOLER space navy seals

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with like, Mickey only having been a Pelican pilot beforehand

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or Dirt, where Gage signs up despite being from the CMA, which is technically a different military all together

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which I think is where the fan idea of ODSTs having their ranks reset come from. Gage was a Sergeant in the CMA, but the UNSC doesn't really care or respect the CMA at all.

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Spartan-IVs are adult volunteers

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pulled from humanity's best existing soldiers

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"promoted" is a bit of an odd word choice

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It was more like, the dude was approached by Jun from Noble Team, and he accepted the offer

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that do be the halopedia article

boreal bane
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Please don't paste entire articles here, we really don't need walls of text. You can link to the relevant article sections or quote small (i.e single paragraph) sections if you need to

obtuse crow
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Noted for future reference!

terse sage
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What armor are the spartans wearing on the cover of the newer editions of the Fall of Reach?

orchid kettle
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They go from like wearing Mark V armor from CE, to now they're wearing Mark IV

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very similar to halo wars

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but BEEFY

terse sage
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God I love that HW2 cutscene

orchid kettle
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The beef factor reminds me of Cal from babysitter as well

terse sage
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I liked that episode

orchid kettle
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Personally, its what my brain defaults to for Spartan characters when Im reading the books

terse sage
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Mark IV is the best looking Mjolnir IMO

orchid kettle
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I like it a lot when there's like, a lot of Spartans on screen

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there's that idea after all that they're very hard to tell apart in their armor

terse sage
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Which was thrown out the window when they all got unique armor

orchid kettle
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Well it makes sense why

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its easy to make every character look the same in a book

terse sage
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I do love Fred's armor in Halo 5

orchid kettle
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Chief always knows who's Fred and who's Linda

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but in a visual medium, like a game, we need to discern characters at a glance

icy yoke
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Spartan IV program did not pluck children like II or enlist vengeful orphans like III.
IV were existing UNSC personnel from beginning. Hence consenting adults.

wicked wasp
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Never Forget: Foehammer died trying to save John and Cortana.

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also what happened to the other pelican pilots

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im pretty sure there were 4 in the beginning of the gam

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one crashed in assault on the control room

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and then foehammer dies

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so that leaves two

unique rune
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me
I happened
I killed them

cerulean topaz
orchid kettle
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that was present back in the original ODST

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for his description if you pick him as your character

cerulean topaz
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Aye, been a good while since I booted up old ODST

vast edge
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Were there any non-spartan powered armor in use?

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Like a toned down armor that doesn't kill the wearer

bronze delta
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Yes, the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mk I ADS

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It's the suit from "The Prototype"; though that visual is very exaggerated, it's canonical appearance is Johnson's "Green Machine" in Halo Wars 2

meager field
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I have a lore question, is the "Mantle of Responsibility" just an in-lore concept?

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or is there a tangible trophy or symbolic item associated with it?

gilded mason
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Yeah, it's just a guideline or concept, in-universe.

meager field
bronze delta
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Answer: Yes

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It's a Precursor philosophy that while not tangible, does have an effect on Living Time

gilded mason
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Basically "I'm the strongest around, so I hold the responsibility to control guide the lesser not as advanced species."

meager field
gilded mason
bronze delta
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From the Precursor origin, it was held that the species that upheld the Mantle would cultivate the Universe and help it to grow, not unlike a garden. They would be less rulers and more servant guardians. The Forerunners then twisted this to Authoritarianism, and that, in part, resulted in the Flood.

gilded mason
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Though even from the Precursor standpoint, I'd say making it divided by species is still not very good.

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And I'm glad people like Rion Forge noted it

bronze delta
meager field
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when was the great exodus of original Halo talent? it was after Halo 3, right?

gilded mason
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wait how are you reading point of light and not realizing rion forge is the main character

meager field
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oh sorry, I got his name mixed up!
my bad! 😂

bronze delta
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Different folks, Ostral lol

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I'm the one currently reading it lol

gilded mason
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Whoops

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I'm just illiterate, don't mind me

unique rune
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dw we knew that already

gilded mason
dusty ferry
bronze delta
bronze delta
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I've done analyses before, but the version seen in the anime cannot work unless it's the size of a Colossus, and from what we see in the anime it's size is relative to the scene

orchid kettle
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There's also the Cyclops from Halo Wars, but at that point, its probably more like a vehicle than an exoskeleton

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But apparently it and the Mantis are partially piloted by your mind

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so that's neat

dusty ferry
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we also have the cyclops, Mark I ADS, and depending on how much you want to ascribe mega blocks in terms of canon, the skyfire or whatever

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OH, and SPI

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that can be used by a regular person

orchid kettle
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outside of actually having the resources to produce all these stuff

dusty ferry
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I blame the budget committee sending all the money to the development of Mjolnir

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or the fleet, which was basically annihilated post war

orchid kettle
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then again, surely these machines aren't using super special liquid crystal layers that have to be assembled in zero g

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they would presumably just be using motors and hydraulics

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Honestly, I think the reason why we rarely see exoskeletons and mechs is because they're too cool, and run the risk of stealing some of the Spartan power fantasy's thunder

dusty ferry
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most likely

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i would kill for a game about a squad in the Mark I though

orchid kettle
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I kinda dig the idea of being a normal marine, but sometimes you can climb in a cyclops for a brief power trip

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like after hours of gruelling difficult combat with the Covenant, you can just hop in the robot, and vaporize Elites with a giant mech punch

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but I guess what Im describing is just titanfall 2, but you don't have parkour

dusty ferry
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I'd love a game like star wars squadrons, but halo

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basically, gib more sabre fights

indigo arch
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Question.

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Wait nvm I can’t post an image of it

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There’s some concept art for a HELLHOUND MJOLNIR.

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wanted to know if that was technically cannon

dusty ferry
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i think that was a fan design

bronze delta
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Yeah, the only page I can find is a Reddit that lists it as Halo Fan concept

unique rune
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That name sounds fanmade alright

dusty ferry
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I mean, we have more stupid names in canon

gilded mason
dusty ferry
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I could totally see a mjolnir hellhound variant eventually happening

unique rune
gilded mason
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lol

dusty ferry
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God, are there still ways to get that helmet?

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That’s like the one customization item for halo 5 I can’t directly grind for

bronze delta
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So glad I got it before Infinite lol

unique rune
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If you can still find a Spartan Company working towards it I’m sure it’s still possible

dusty ferry
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I’ll have to look into that

wicked wasp
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Is the r-word allowed in this server

bronze delta
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No

versed helm
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Hey y'all.

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I was super curious about the Endless, the Xanalyn. Like, is there any story to them besides the Harbinger? I know a lot of lore, but they're one of my weak spots.

bronze delta
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Currently lore on them is about what we've got in Infinite, though I suspect they're related to the Precursors

versed helm
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Oh yeah? That is cool!

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The Flood are of the same relation, right? Precursor, that is.

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Nice Copperhead PFP, by the way.

unique rune
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Yeah, there’s not really anything we know about them outside of what’s in Infinite (and the ‘22 Encyclopedia but that’s mostly just the same info)

versed helm
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Ahh, okie.

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Love your PFP.

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What would you say your favorite lore is?

bronze delta
versed helm
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Ahh, OK.

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I thought it was some kind of "devolution" you know? Kinda like the Jiralhanae, they reverted to being primitive for awhile.

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Does that make sense?

bronze delta
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It does, yes, but the Precursors are exponentially more complex. That group's "devolution" was a willing act of subterfuge, as opposed to the Jiralhanae literally bombing themselves back to the Stone Age

versed helm
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Ahhh, OK.

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Thanks a lot!

cerulean topaz
orchid kettle
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which is neat

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especially since SPI's artwork was based off of the old 1999 chief concept art

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so its a link that exists in canon and in reality

heady geyser
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Thoughts on intel 3 for echo within

cerulean topaz
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Aye, it also shares a lot of design elements with ODST which is neat as well

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I think its because ODST was conceptualized as a Mark V design at one point (which makes the infinite description even cooler imo)

bronze delta
orchid kettle
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I'm not 100% sure how

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but they did apparently

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Which ends up meaning that ODSTs and Spartans are pretty intertwined, especially in their lineage

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It makes me wonder what Mendez even was, and what his training regime for the II's was based off of, if anything

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Yeah, his encyclopedia article just says he was a super cool warfighter man who has a bunch of medals

bronze delta
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From the Reach data pads, the ODST Program (which predates ORION by several centuries) began to use the remaining ORION members as exemplary models in their training and operations. The augmentations of the ORION Project were still quite classified, so it's unlikely that was an element to the reemergence of the ODST's.

With Mendez... did he ever do anything really exemplary?

orchid kettle
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It says he served on the frontlines of the Insurrection and won a bunch of medals in honor of his valor

bronze delta
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Gotcha, so "Bad-A, but not quite Mini-Spartan"

orchid kettle
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It just doesn't really tell us what he was, since he's Navy

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Hell I think he's one of the few Navy enlisted we hear of that's not a corpsman or part of a ship's crew

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My guess is whatever the 26th century version of a Navy Seal But Not ODST is

bronze delta
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That'd be Spartans

orchid kettle
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Like, what, they just aped part of their training regiment?

orchid kettle
# bronze delta That'd be Spartans

Well we know other special forces units have to exist, since it was supposedly the case that ODSTs are all veterans of other spec op units before joining

tribal trench
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Do we have a modern equivalent to “shock troopers”? I know paratroopers are the current IRL version of ODSTs but do we have “shock troopers”?

orchid kettle
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granted we've never had concrete proof of a character having this history lol

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but it does imply that there's more than ODSTs running around

orchid kettle
bronze delta
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Sorry, was in a match; let me catch up

bronze delta
# orchid kettle Like, what, they just aped part of their training regiment?

Aye, there's not much to go on. From Data Pad 11 it says that the ODST are "based on the ORION model", which chronologically is confusing as the ODST were founded in 2129 (2163 in their current application), and the ORION Project was fielded in 2315 for Phase 1, and 2491 for Phase 2.

Phase 1 mostly used performance enhancing drugs (i.e. steroids and the like) and performance enhancing equipment to produce Above Exceptional soldiers; Phase 1 is likely the basis for current ODST, as it's easier to apply than the augmentations done to Phase 2, and while most troops use performance-enhancing drugs and equipment, the ODST is applied to a higher standard.

To SPECWAR, or Special Forces, the mention of ODST as veterans of these operations is somewhat nonsensical, as the only Special Forces that we have examples of are the ODST and the Spartans. But what I more meant is that a team like the Navy SEALS would be redundant, as that role is filled by the Spartan II's and III's; even with the emergence of the Spartan Branch, the Spartan-II's and III's do a lot more covert operations under cover of classification, while the Spartan-IV's are more high-profile, mainline troops of the UNSC Special Forces.

cerulean topaz
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I wonder if they intended the UNSC Special Forces to be set up sort of like ONI's Sections and Divisions

bronze delta
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In the beginning I think the brunt of planning that went into it was "80's Action Movie Cool"

cerulean topaz
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Well yeah, Halo in the early days was basically "Alien vs Predator meets The Thing and Starship Trooper featuring Robocop-ified John Spartan from the famous movie Demolition Man"

wicked wasp
orchid kettle
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forget modern touch screens and holograms

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i want a UNSC where everything is a brick with a tiny CRT display and a million notches and dials

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like everyone is still on some IBM from the 1960's

tribal trench
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Wouldn’t make sense since it’s meant to take place in our universe

orchid kettle
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I don't think that really matters, honestly

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I think whats important is drawing a distinction between the UNSC and Covenant races

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its why the aliens love purple and rounded things

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while we're gray and boxy

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they shoot colorful lasers

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and we shoot conventional firearms

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they have hovercraft, and we use exposed humvees

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like, of course thats all still the case when we're using the more tacticool, realistic style of Reach and Infinite

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I just think there's a bit more personality with the retro scifi aesthetic

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After all, you'd figure in terms of broader fiction trends

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being futuristic in a way a person in 2023 believes is the norm

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its the expectation, but its harder to make an impact when you're expected.

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I think a cute example of how the retro scifi has persisted is in how Marines and soldiers in the bungie games were running around with big radio backpacks

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which surely wouldn't be necessary since it seems like your helmet or its side attachment can get pretty good reception as is

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but it's there to invoke the image of like, a WW2 soldier

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lugging that heavy communication equipment of the time

indigo arch
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I liked the idea of everything being a little larger

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When you find those marines with the huge radio packs on their backs

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Or the marines without helmets

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It makes everything just that much more fun. Knowing these boys have been through hell, carrying large radio, losing armor and brother, and still giving the covies bellies full of lead

bronze delta
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Plus we see those large packs and "old tech" in the single year of 2552, toward the end of the war when humanity is literally with it's back to the wall and got saved by extremely good timing. It makes sense for that timeframe (and in the real world, it was the vibe of the 2000's), but doesn't make sense for current timeline and current real world.

orchid kettle
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I mean the funny thing is, with Reach's timeline placement and the lore of the Army being underfunded and stuck using outdated hand me downs

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it ends up implying that the more gritty, tacticool aesthetic eventually gives way to the more stylized aesthetics of CE and 3

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with 2 being this weird brief regression where every gun is a black brick and the UNSC exclusively wears the drabbest of olives

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lemme tell ya, I feel like Halo 2's art style has probably aged the least gracefully

orchid kettle
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Like how in Contact Harvest, FTL communication just wasnt a thing, so you had to upload all your email to a ship with a slipspace drive, and have THAT go to the next planet to deliver your mail

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It and other elements really created this sense that the 26th century is not some scifi paradise where want has been eliminated

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people are still on that daily grind, struggling to survive

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even outside of alien invasions

plush compass
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The civilians in Halo really don’t have it going

orchid kettle
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at least they get to play gravball

plush compass
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And they can eat moa burgers

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And they can eat the Chief’s special and drink the Chief’s suprise

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And marines can have pet geese apparently

orchid kettle
#

oh right that's another thing I liked about CE that kinda got messed with in CEA

#

the food dispenser being this brutalistic, hostile piece of machinery

#

I always assumed the "Chef's Surprise" was a joke. Because there's no chef, just a hole in the wall that chucks nutrient blocks at you

plush compass
#

In CEA I think it was there’s a sign for a missing goose on the autumn

orchid kettle
#

Yeah in either versions there's just a communal bulletin board thing

plush compass
#

Sadly we can only assume that the goose was hopefully found by Dustin Echoes as I didn’t see any goose in game

orchid kettle
#

but in CEA, they make the food dispenser look a lot more... appealing

#

which sure, makes sense

#

but kinda ruins the joke

tribal trench
plush compass
#

Speaking of Dustin, I kinda wonder the true lore of Chips Dubbo.

#

Like, was he a real canon character?

#

How did he survive CE, 2, 3, and ODST?

#

Is he a precursor?

orchid kettle
#

Im sure Chips is real in some capacity

#

but not so much the idea that he's in every single halo game

#

Halo CE in general is pretty tough for any character to survive

#

hell its still wild to think Johnson and Linda made it out

plush compass
#

Well yeah Linda was basically dead in every single way

orchid kettle
#

More so the idea that her cryo tube got shot out into space so it didn't get caught up in the ring exploding, and then Chief found it

#

forget Chief, clearly Linda is the luckiest spartan

cerulean topaz
#

I know thats the lore, but I always kinda assumed Linda was also just player 2 in CE split-screen

orchid kettle
#

That's my head canon whenever I play co op

#

that its some alt universe where Linda was totally fine and could help out

#

though now, I guess the implication of MCC is that this is all Locke reviewing Chief's service record

#

perhaps playing it as s cute lil tablet game like Spartan Assault canonically is

#

I honestly do wonder if the TACSIM or War Games sim have a recreation of Chief's adventures for Spartan-IVs to try

#

which are probably nigh impossible just to further elevate Chief's legend

obtuse crow
orchid kettle
#

it still annoys me to this day that we have like 3 different naming conventions for ODST units consisting of 4-5 people

#

Sunray 1-1, sure, its the lead element of Boomerang Company

#

but then you have Alpha-Nine and Fireteam Raven

unique rune
#

Someone should make an ODST unit combining all these weird naming conventions just for giggles

orchid kettle
#

Fireteam X-ray Six-Nine

bronze delta
#

You think that's bad, MJOLNIR naming conventions give me an aneurysm

orchid kettle
#

Fireteam Raven is weird too since it ends up implying that whatever naming convention the ODSTs have ended up inspiring the IV fireteam names

orchid kettle
bronze delta
#

[GEN1] (Retroactive)

Mk IV
Mk V
Mk VI
Mk VII
[GEN2]
[GEN3]
Mk VII???

orchid kettle
#

doesn't the encyclopedia imply that Naomi's suit is actually Mark VII GEN1

unique rune
#

Marks being carried over between Generations always makes my brain hurt

orchid kettle
#

I guess at best you can see it as just like

#

what the armor looks like on the outside

#

Its "mark vii" because it uses that specific design

#

but its gen3 underneath?

unique rune
#

Yeah, I’ve always figured it was mostly just cosmetic, considering most of MJOLNIR’s magic is in the body suit instead of the armor plating anyway

bronze delta
#

It's built off GEN1 Mk VII, if memory serves

orchid kettle
#

but yeah it ends up meaning that GEN3 has no true unique look of its own

#

like GEN2 does

unique rune
#

I miss GEN2

orchid kettle
#

I only miss my true love

#

the Warrior helmet

#

there's concept art of a Warrior GEN3 design

#

and it looks fantastic

#

but they wont give it to me

#

release my child 343

plush compass
bronze delta
#

I desire a return of the Drengr Fractures

dusty ferry
#

i want the power rangers one in infinite

obtuse crow
cerulean topaz
#

I just assume the generation moniker had more to do with the suits internal components and software than its external functions and look

dense falcon
cerulean topaz
#

Especially since for Gen 1 suits, a lot of components were shared with non-spartan departments, such as the MP/UA Base Security, Gungnir, and ODST components
Heck, even some of the other ones like Air Assault and Pilot were hinted at being used by normal UNSC personnel

#

(Really most issues stem from Halo 5's fast and loose usage of Gen 1 in a few poorly designed sets, since most of those sets were still just Gen 2 with a few Gen 1 pieces on them)

#

||real talk, Mark VI Gen 1 would have looked WAY more forgivable with the H2A Multiplayer Helmet and Shoulders, and hopefully they do that with a PC port||

bronze delta
wicked wasp
#

Like I feel like everyone mixes up squads and fireteams

#

Alpha-Nine is the size of a Fireteam but they call it a squad

bronze delta
#

What doesn't help that is the careless use of the terms throughout. Solidified in the UNSCDF structure current, a Fireteam is about 4-5 people, with a Squad containing three fireteams. However it is noted that UNSC Special Forces (ODST and NAVSPECWAR) use smaller groups - referred to as Squads - making them effectively equivalent to a Fireteam. In regards to ODST and Spartans specifically, it is proper lingo to refer to them as either Squads or Fireteams.

orchid kettle
#

Personally, I kinda dig the "phonetic letter + number" format

#

though it does end up meaning you can't really do the whole "Blue-1, this is Blue-2" thing that's all over the place in Blue Team books

#

since like, what you gonna call Romeo Alpha-Nine-Three? Silly.

hidden cobalt
#

what's up with all the funky green stuff around reach's upper atmosphere? anyone know? is it the remains of degraded star roads or something?

tribal trench
#

More likely just various gasses around Epsilon Eridanus’s orbit

orchid kettle
#

which is kinda weird, and it doesnt sound like a fireteam

#

I mean I guess you can figure there have been some "Teams" that have had six people, like Noble and Castle

bronze delta
#

Which Encyclopedia, though?

orchid kettle
#

but never eight

orchid kettle
bronze delta
#

Ah, haven't read that far. That is weird

#

Especially since that's in direct contradiction of Alpha-Nine

orchid kettle
#

how many ODST teams/squads do we know by name? Raven, Alpha-Nine, Alpha-Five from Spartan Strike, Sunray 1-1

#

all 4-5 dudes

bronze delta
#

I even used that number as the basis for my own Fireteam

orchid kettle
#

if you wanna count that cool artwork of ODSTs fighting covenant in a city that came with a loot crate

#

that one had a team of 6 dudes

bronze delta
#

Wait, they've got 5 before they lose their sniper, then 6 afterwards

#

eeh

orchid kettle
#

6 I think in Halo is the absolute most a "team" can be

#

just because of Noble and Castle

#

though Castle's sixth member isn't listed in the infinity briefing packet thing

#

actually, why is Halopedia so sure that Castle had six people

#

the briefing packet lists 5, and I get that a leader was named that was not one of those 5

#

but they could have just had a roster change

bronze delta
#

Any in-game mentions?

vast edge
cerulean topaz
# bronze delta Issues such as what? Some of those are GEN2 kits *designed* as GEN1, but were no...

As I noted: Mark VI Gen 1.

The set wasn't like the Noble Mark V[b] armor sets, nor was it like the other Mjolnir sets such as Mark IV and Mark V Alpha, or even the Gen 1 Helmets, all being upgrades in some cases, or outright Gen 2 redesigns of Gen 1 systems in others.

Mark VI Gen 1 is intended to be the Gen 1 system from 2-3, yet looks more like the Gen 2 system from 4, it could potentially have passed for being a Gen 1 system with minor artstyle changes had they given it the H2AMP Helmet and Shoulders, but since they didn't, it sorta falls into the same issues as the intro cutscene of Halo 4 has.

orchid kettle
#

and in halo 4, when characters do that, it displays their name

#

and that name wasn't in the infinity briefing packet for castle's roster

#

tho said packet also says that Thorne was getting a suit of Warrior armor

#

and clearly that didn't happen either

bronze delta
cerulean topaz
#

Yes, that is true for Mark VI Gen 2
The problem arises when the discussion turns towards the sets labled as Mark VI Gen 1

#

The descriptions for the Gen 1 sets in Halo 5 are fairly consistent with them being the Gen 1 sets

#

(Its why I highlight the Helmet as being the most egregious portion, since its labeled "Gen 1" when it's clearly the Gen 2 variant like the shoulders, which are all the parts that should have looked more like the H2AMP interpretation)

bronze delta
#

Which one are you saying should have looked like the set in Halo 2A?

cerulean topaz
#

Mark VI (Gen 1)
And only really the shoulders and helmet, the rest was fine if memory serves correctly

bronze delta
#

Comparing all the models for Halo 2AMP, Halo 4MP, and Halo 5MP, all of the Mk VI helmets (including the ones listed as GEN1) have the same model. Biggest difference from the Mk VI in Halo 3 is the mouthguard and datachip slot.

So the Halo 5 "Mark VI GEN1" does look exactly like the Halo 2AMP "Mark VI".

#

So I'm still failing to see the problem here. It more looks like an issue of aesthetic preference not being what you want it to be or expected it to be.

cerulean topaz
#

I'll point this reddit post here, has the pictures side by side

#

Basically, its the profile of the helmet from the front

#

The chin/mouth guard especially

bronze delta
#

And that's showing what I was saying. They follow the same model. What makes them look "different" is textures used and coloring.

cerulean topaz
#

No, what makes them different is model shape

Look at the chin from the side views as well as the front views, look at H2A Multiplayer, and compare that to Halo 4 and Halo 5

#

Halo 4 and 5 made the chin more round and have less concave curves, as well as making the top of the helmet broader

bronze delta
#

I looked at them directly in game, Cat. It's the same model

#

But even so, what's the real problem here?

cerulean topaz
#

Those are in game pictures, unless you're using the UE4 renders

#

The problem again, is that the Gen 1 helmet in Halo 5 is not actually a Gen 1 helmet, its the Gen 2, which is what further confuses most people about how the whole Gen systems work

bronze delta
#

Not really

#

It's only confusing if you make it confusing

cerulean topaz
#

Eh, its like ya said: how the whole Mjolnir Mark system carries through Gens is an aneurysm trying to place

#

Or look at closer

#

i may have misunderstood, but i dunno

orchid kettle
#

Marine uniforms aint much better

#

I remember people calling me crazy for pointing out how both the Halo Wars and Reach BDUs are probably reinterpretations of Halo CE

bronze delta
#

The bigger confusion comes in with GEN3, that it starts with Mark VII. The baseline GEN3 is built off GEN1 Mk VII, but it's really more of GEN3 Mk I

orchid kettle
#

just ones that are using two different angles

cerulean topaz
#

wars gets a little weird

dusty ferry
#

Wars is minorly confusing for multiple reasons

#

Mainly, spartan shields

#

Also, the existance of fire bases

cerulean topaz
#

The game sat in this weird spot where a lot of its designers were trying to make it match the most recent title released, even though it made no sense

#

Like early Mark IV renders looked like the Mark VI

orchid kettle
#

Well I assume Wars is trying to be a reinterpretation of CE, because we have the return of blue-skinned grunts, Marines in gray and brown plating, and the MA5B

dusty ferry
#

Also, the sparrow hawk is objectively better than a ton of later units

orchid kettle
#

for reach its a bit more obvious because we actively see marines from the Autumn and they're rocking CE colors

cerulean topaz
#

Aye, and the Gungnir pieces they wear look like higher detail CE pieces in those colors

dusty ferry
#

It also implies the hornet is the main air vehicle that is used to counter the fighter bomber banshee

orchid kettle
#

Personally Im not wild about the marine armor of wars

#

its too cool lol

#

They end up looking like mini spartans

cerulean topaz
#

Wars was like it was trying to amalgamate CE and Halo 3, and it looked great

too great

orchid kettle
#

and when paired with H2A ODSTs, they end up looking more bulky and heavily armored

#

which doesn't jive

dusty ferry
#

Like, halo 3 has the hornet v banshee thing was like, desperation

#

Not real military tactics

orchid kettle
#

which hadn't been seen since CE

cerulean topaz
#

Aye, the autumn marines in reach were weird in that they were just recolored space troopers

unique rune
orchid kettle
#

from all the glassing that was starting to happen

cerulean topaz
#

Aye, that actually does make sense

orchid kettle
#

There's cool concept art of the Reach marine helmet, where like the helmet's visor slides up into the helmet, and the lower jaw opens

#

implying the suit could go from open faced to vacuum sealed at the drop of a hat

cerulean topaz
#

Nifty

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

If only Elites/Brutes pilot Banshees

unique rune
#

Man speaking of fighter-bombers
I’m still not over the Longsword being classified as a fighter-bomber (at least in some variants) and sometimes even an interceptor

Imagine trying to dogfight in-atmosphere with something with a wingspan 50% wider than a B-2 Spirit

orchid kettle
#

who was in that Banshee Blue team shot down in the original edition of Fall of Reach

#

back when humanity didn't encounter anything but grunts and jackals before 2552

dusty ferry
unique rune
#

I guess the C712 and C718 models of Longsword are a much saner size than the C709 but they’re still like 50% wider than just about any modern jet fighter is long

And also the C718 is basically just a funny looking space Nighthawk which amuses me
I’m surprised they didn’t just flat out call it the C117
Or would C717 have been more appropriate

dusty ferry
#

I like how one model can be so much more massive than the rest

#

That’s truly an achievement of engineering

orchid kettle
#

that's why you bust out the booster frames

#

Im sure there's a million reasons why they're impractical

#

but damn if space motorcycles aren't cool

orchid kettle
#

I don't think you'll ever find somebody who's ride or die for the old longsword

#

Given how rarely it ever features in halo media

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

Way more Sabre fans, even with their lore as super secret prototypes that have only popped up a couple times

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, I like that the modern broadsword is upgraded based on the Sabre

#

It makes them feel like an important step

orchid kettle
#

honestly the booster frame sounds like something dreamed up by desperate rebels who couldn't get proper fighters

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, but boosters are designed for Spartans

orchid kettle
#

so they just made a rocket pod a person can ride

bronze delta
#

Gods, the booster frames....

dusty ferry
#

I remember the booster frames had to be built of of cyclops parts in old mega blocks

unique rune
#

I like the Longsword a lot but it’s always felt kinda mismatched in terms of appearance and role

So replacing it with more sensibly fighter-like craft is something I can get behind

orchid kettle
#

I would have been fine with the longsword being retconned into like, a stealth insertion craft

#

like it zips over an area, and shoots master chief out like a torpedo

#

MGS style

dusty ferry
#

See, mark v[b] refits in halo infinite

#

Heck, we might see baselards or whatever they were called

#

Please 343, license a space combat game

#

If it has to be post war, ok

unique rune
bronze delta
#

I always hated the booster frames because they make no sense. How would they not go spinning off with the chaingun, or slowing down drastically with the ridiculously small MAC?

orchid kettle
#

I wish Halo Wars 3 was real

bronze delta
#

Same. Hopefully in time

orchid kettle
#

its about recreating the Akira bike slide in space

dusty ferry
#

It’s about being awesome

#

I would prefer using the MAC launching Spartans though

#

Become the bullet

scarlet hinge
#

please 343 i will donate all of my SoTP models to get a space combat game

#

you can just have them

bronze delta
dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

ye

dusty ferry
#

If so, I am a fan

unique rune
#

man
the C709 Longsword is officially wider than a B-52

@Bungie whose idea was this

scarlet hinge
#

makes sense in a context in which it's less of a fighter and more of a torpedo boat

orchid kettle
#

I can excuse silly, impractical stuff if its cool

#

which is why I like me some booster frames and mechs

dusty ferry
#

I will someday actually get the game and mod, but just for the dedication you have to this series you have a dedicated fan

scarlet hinge
#

hell yeah

#

but yeah, the GA-TL1 Longsword (as originally depicted) makes more sense if you consider it less as a fighter and more as an extremely small warship - it came about in an era before space fightercraft were really a thing in Halo

#

as an analogue for WW1-esque torpedo boats, it works decently enough

#

as a silly space plane, less so

unborn ice
#

that's crazy

orchid kettle
unique rune
#

Yeah I just wanna know why anyone was calling it a fighter when it’s like
way closer to a strategic bomber?

#

Baffling

orchid kettle
#

but some of them take artistic liberties with the visuals

unborn ice
#

i wonder if greg bear ever watched the origins ones

orchid kettle
#

like the Package, where Halsey is a hot 20 something blonde

#

when she really shouldn't be

#

even in another short, Halsey is portrayed as like greasy and sinister

unborn ice
#

yeah she looks like zero suit samus for some reason

scarlet hinge
orchid kettle
#

NOT hot

unique rune
#

I wonder if it being called a fighter in CE is another one of those weird “we wrote the script but had unfinished visuals” things that came up during CE’s development

scarlet hinge
#

plus the scaled down model in Reach (for skybox purposes) being canonised as a smaller variant that's too small to actually fit a pilot inside the cockpit is a lol-tier moment

dusty ferry
cerulean topaz
scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
cerulean topaz
#

Like the one on the map

#

Was it a part of the Pillar of Autumn? Or is it supposed to tie onto like Jun or Rosenda's survival after Reach?

bronze delta
#

I take the events of Legends as canon, but the depictions and events-as-depicted much, much less so.

scarlet hinge
unique rune
scarlet hinge
#

Forge World is canonically simulation territory, as per Ken Peters in the Halo Array lore stream

bronze delta
#

Eyyyy Halo Array

dusty ferry
#

Multiplayer is dubious in what it means

cerulean topaz
#

I always just assumed Forge World to be I04 given the ending of Reach

scarlet hinge
orchid kettle
#

we're all simulations now

dusty ferry
#

Post 4 it’s sims

scarlet hinge
bronze delta
scarlet hinge
cerulean topaz
#

I'll be honest, I kinda dislike the whole "every multiplayer is a sim" direction 343 went in

orchid kettle
#

since forge world includes the gulch

#

albeit in a nicer climate

bronze delta
cerulean topaz
#

Aye

scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
bronze delta
#

Ah, no worries then

dusty ferry
#

Until infinite

scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
#

Sort of

#

Some of the items imply wargames tech is used at the Johnson school of military stuff

#

I forgot the name

orchid kettle
bronze delta
#

Re: Multiplayer being a Sim, this was only first introduced in Halo 4. Everything before that is just... a game

unborn ice
#

the builders were too cheap and lazy to come up with new designs for each ring

scarlet hinge
#

Software simulations are held in contempt by the veteran instructors who run these training facilities.

unique rune
#

this is Chiron TL-34 erasure

we don’t talk about the clone part though

orchid kettle
#

To be fair, in the pit, the training exercise is probably shooting those moving targets

cerulean topaz
#

Like, I can understand the battles being a sim, but the locations usually tied into some bit of lore that made sense

bronze delta
#

Ye

orchid kettle
#

like MGS does a couple times

unborn ice
#

game devs dont make maps as absurd as chiron tl-34 anymore 😭

scarlet hinge
#

lol

#

here's a quote from catalog regarding Ragnarok

[Serendipitous] or [pleasing] patterns are often represented at different scales and locales, based on the tastes of the [pattern weaver] or as a result of [semi-stochastic] initial conditions inherent in the chosen template.

dusty ferry
#

which was also analyzing a war sphinx

scarlet hinge
#

you're conflating two locations, there

#

the former is a Springhill-class mining ship carrying a Geyrion combat walker

#

the latter is Ivanoff Station from the campaign

dusty ferry
#

ahh

#

sorry, map lore isn't my forte

scarlet hinge
#

no worries!

dusty ferry
#

I'm more into ship stuff and tech

orchid kettle
#

I do wonder why the locations need to be real places if its all a sim

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

like, why not have some more out there locales, like that Eternity forge map

#

But thats more so gameplay than lore concern I guess

scarlet hinge
#

the halo 5 forge maps did get canonised as that

dusty ferry
#

UNSC architecture is somewhat consistent

dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

but in general, it's more interesting to present the maps as presenting more-or-less real places in the setting than something that doesn't exist and doesn't matter

scarlet hinge
cerulean topaz
#

My logic was always "base map real, forged map alterations of real location"

dusty ferry
#

because the TIMMY helmet implies forging is a thing

#

or that S-IV operatives can be mind whammied into being more creative

scarlet hinge
scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
#

Halo 5 for all its faults had some killer lore in the multiplayer space

cerulean topaz
scarlet hinge
#

no

orchid kettle
#

like teleporters

scarlet hinge
#

lore pretty much always bends to gameplay design's whim

dusty ferry
#

You want to know what would be cool, probability mirrors being shown on a map

#

just because we could get lore slideshows

scarlet hinge
#

that's a hell of a lot of work required on the part of the art team for almost no benefit

dusty ferry
#

I nerded out over the latest community creation maps due to the ads on them

dusty ferry
cerulean topaz
# scarlet hinge no

I mean more like the maps Digsite may have procured, or anything 343 decides to release on an official level

scarlet hinge
#

unlikely

#

most of them don't even have art

#

they're just greybox blockouts

cerulean topaz
#

But thats just it; they've been working on finishing many of those blockouts

dusty ferry
#

like, think about holo puppy for a minute. It answers so many interesting ideas. Like how modern families in the UEG can afford a dog hologram which probably has some level of AI to mimick a real dog. Or how most of the propoganda focuses on S-IV's in Mark VII Gen 3

#

and not S-II's

scarlet hinge
#

well people can become spartan IVs

dusty ferry
#

or how enough Moa still exist to have slipspace burgers

scarlet hinge
#

so it makes sense to propagandise them

scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

and is now the principal supplier of moa throughout human space

dusty ferry
#

that's awesome

orchid kettle
#

I honestly wonder if the reason why there's so many Spartan-IVs with... questionable amounts of experience

#

is for propaganda purposes

#

"See, citizen? Truly anyone can become a hero! Sign up today!"

dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

also i swear this is legit i am not memeing

dusty ferry
dusty ferry
dusty ferry
#

i doubt this, but we have gotten lore on corporate supersoliders since halo 5

orchid kettle
#

this is a super niche observation, I know

#

but with IVs existing, and assuming every IV deserves to be there

#

that kinda creates this weird implication with any fan OC that isnt a spartan themselves

#

that implication being that the UNSC values the tactical genius of Hoya more than said character

#

😏

scarlet hinge
#

"Yes"

#

i don't write OCs, but if i did i'd be purposefully writing mediocre and average people

#

way more interesting

#

or like, naval officers

dusty ferry
#

i have a ton of questions about the status of hellbringers in the modern lore

#

but yeah, Naval officers need more respect

scarlet hinge
#

they handle the UNSC's chemical weapons and stuff

orchid kettle
scarlet hinge
#

the flamethrowers are a memey, but small, part of their job

dusty ferry
#

they just seem so effective

#

and we have somewhat canonical info on the Spirit of Fire testing the cryo ones out

scarlet hinge
#

well it helps that they exist in a strategy game where things like logistics aren't modelled or considered

dusty ferry
#

if we ever get a new weapon element in infinite, it should be cryo

scarlet hinge
#

i wouldn't take their gameplay performance as reflecting their actual in-lore use

dusty ferry
#

interesting

scarlet hinge
#

otherwise, Hellbringers are ODSTs organised within the Special Tactics & Equipment Group

orchid kettle
scarlet hinge
#

yeah

#

i do not care about spartans at all

#

i want to read about rando marines and naval officers again

orchid kettle
#

Im kinda that way myself

dusty ferry
#

Spartans feel like the biggest budget sink in the entire navy

orchid kettle
#

Especially when it clear that, even with a brand new blue team trilogy

dusty ferry
#

they have so many armor variants for like 1000 people tops

orchid kettle
#

there's clearly no intent to flesh out Blue Team as actual characters

#

they just go on more missions, but it doesn't feel like they're different people by the end

scarlet hinge
#

i was surprised that the Linda comic was never followed up with a dedicated Fred or Kelly comic

dusty ferry
#

like, i know its cheaper than a ship now, but it still feels weird the UNSC focused on this avenue instead of SPI, or the Mark I ADS

scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
#

or they Cyclops

scarlet hinge
#

the status quo can never change

scarlet hinge
#

they did all of those things

#

all three were parallel and interlinked programs

dusty ferry
#

i guess, i just wish we knew more about how those projects are going

orchid kettle
scarlet hinge
#

HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL was formed as an effort to take the discarded prototypes and research from Halsey's work, and to find other contexts to apply it in

dusty ferry
#

which is why i like the Mirage IIC

orchid kettle
#

but now Ive found myself writing up their retirement in my head

#

because honestly in a way

dusty ferry
#

it implies it can be used with less rigorous augments while still being somewhat competitive to mjolnir

#

which is neat

orchid kettle
#

it feels cruel to make them fight in wars forever and ever

scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

and used tech and equipment inherited from ORION

dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

it's not worse than mjolnir

#

it's a different tool for a different job

#

that's like saying a prowler is worse than a carrier

cerulean topaz
#

A fair few pieces of the overall sets are also used by every day marines

#

Like helmets, knees, and shoulders

dusty ferry
#

Fair enough, though those project cobalt Mark IV mjolnir suits with the invisibilty did exist

#

but i get you

scarlet hinge
#

that was all-out active camouflage

dusty ferry
#

its much cheaper

scarlet hinge
#

not photoreactive plating

dusty ferry
#

was it?

#

huh

scarlet hinge
#

yeah

dusty ferry
#

learn something new every day

scarlet hinge
#

the COBALT stuff was highly experimental one-of-a-kind prototypes

#

they weren't mass-produced or used

#

each one was uniquely tailored for each member of Blue Team, and the deployments were as much gathering data for Halsey's team as they were actually for use in combat

dusty ferry
#

yeah, this happens a lot with Mark IV

#

given we know at least one unit tested energy shields

scarlet hinge
#

yeah

#

Mark IV didn't exist until the 2530s

#

prior to that point, it was just MJOLNIR, and everything was being custom-made as needed

#

the Mark IV label was retroactively applied to all the prior prototypes later on because the Navy started demanding Halsye budget things properly

dusty ferry
#

I mean, that is warranted when we know Mark V costed as much as a frigate or whatever

#

and by then Halsey was somewhat planning Mark VII

scarlet hinge
#

tbf, that isn't a statement to take literally

#

it was an exaggerated claim made by a frustrated officer

#

it doesn't really mean all that much beyond "it's absurdly expensive"

dusty ferry
#

yeah, but its usage case was like 700 people max during the war

#

I'm just weirded out by the strategy of focusing you best mind on outfitting 700 people give or take, but it worked

scarlet hinge
#

well the idea for the IIIs was to scale up their use

dusty ferry
#

I doubt Halsey would try for anything else though

#

The II's were her kids

#

I would do as much as she did to protect them in terms of RnD

scarlet hinge
#

if she wanted to protect them she'd have never endorsed the project in the first place

orchid kettle
#

whenever we hear about stuff like "odst helmets have mjolnir tech in them"

#

I can't help but wonder if they mean like

#

MJOLNIR Mark I-III

#

those supposedly had helmets too

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

according to that Halsey sketch of Mark I at least

dusty ferry
#

though she neglected Miranda, her actual child

#

for 75 adopted kids

orchid kettle
#

because otherwise it sounds like odst helmets are very recent

dusty ferry
#

I think that has to do with VISR?

scarlet hinge
#

rookie's armour is specified as a "late-war pattern" in the cosplay guide

#

it can be inferred that the H2 style is the insurrection/early war design (hence why it's used by Spirit of Fire forces)

orchid kettle
#

But Sunray uses Halo 3 style as well

dusty ferry
#

wait, who were they again?

#

the ones form Wars II

orchid kettle
#

card artwork for the ODSTs have a weird fusion of H2A helmet with the H3 body

#

and big shoulders

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
#

because the spirit of Fire were using a weird hybrid type of modern and older UNSC stuff by then

#

due to the spirt of fire not having up to date factories onboard

orchid kettle
#

It just seems weird to think they fabricated all this new armor, and then the characters customized it before setting off on their mission I guess

scarlet hinge
#

i'd assume sunray just picked up leftovers from the Ark's security forces

dusty ferry
#

possibly that as well

orchid kettle
#

we also see the H2A design in that Escalation comic with Tanaka

#

and they're post war

#

and in HtT Season 2

dusty ferry
#

Maybe its a mission parameter thing

scarlet hinge
#

well they're still being used

#

but tbf nothing gets retired in halo

dusty ferry
#

like Nightfall

orchid kettle
#

Honestly I just assume the H2A design shows up so often because its the highest quality model they have

dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
dusty ferry
#

it just gets shipped to whoever needs the least modern stuff

orchid kettle
#

and the artists in escalation really like tracing over model renders

dusty ferry
#

because, ya know, they had to rebuild the Fleet

scarlet hinge
#

really, the key is to observe whether the H3-Reach ODST stuff will ever be depicted in an insurrection or early war media piece

dusty ferry
#

and infrastructure

scarlet hinge
#

then again, that would require us to get insurrection or early war stuff, first

dusty ferry
#

and planets

orchid kettle
#

otherwise, I really do wonder if ODSTs canonically have fifteen different suits

#

or its just all one suit canonically

#

and redesigns happen

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

like the Reach odst

scarlet hinge
#

i tend to view it as two systems - one that's the H2 design and one that's the H3/ODST design

orchid kettle
#

have so many pieces from Halo 3 ODST

scarlet hinge
#

and the h3/ODST one just has a lot of modularity

orchid kettle
#

it makes me think they slapped the design together to make them fit with every other soldier

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

but they didn't wanna remake the entire halo 3 odst model for reach

dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

frankly though, by the late war I also just figure that the UNSC's logistics departments are running on empty and so you have a huge mix of equipment being fielded largely just based on first come, first served

orchid kettle
#

and then they have a proper space suit

scarlet hinge
#

pretty much yeah - that's how we're doing it on Far Isle

dusty ferry
#

Interesting

scarlet hinge
#

the H2 is bulky but unpressurised, suited for MOUT

#

the H3+ one is lighter weight and EVA-capable

dusty ferry
#

I'm suprised the marine BDU isn't EVA capable as standard

scarlet hinge
#

not really much need to be

dusty ferry
#

but then again, like 70% of UEG space has been glassed

scarlet hinge
#

EVA equipment is very bulky and very heavy, so unless you need it there's not much need for it

#

the marines have specific space assault units

dusty ferry
#

and, if your ship is rendered dead by the covenant, your basically dead no matter what

#

an extra hour isn't going to help

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
#

Halo isn't Gundam, Rescue is near impossible

orchid kettle
#

after all, it and Reach are the only ones with those big boi vambraces

scarlet hinge
orchid kettle
#

that the halo 3 design lacks

scarlet hinge
#

the H3ODST one is heavy due to EVA equipment and supplies for a long march in hostile terrain, but they have lighter armour to compensate and stay mobile

orchid kettle
#

in CH, whenever Johnson charges into a rebel warehouse in a big black suit of armor that shrugs off bullets like no one's business

scarlet hinge
#

that said we're also combining the best of everything from H3/ODST/Reach for the latter design too

orchid kettle
#

i always imagine the H3 ODST suit

#

as in, the game H3 ODST

#

boy this is confusing

dusty ferry
#

that it do

#

But its why i like halo for the tech

#

you can get into arguements like this

scarlet hinge
#

this post has all of our ODST stuff in it

dusty ferry
#

I like writing about the engineers and stuff

#

like the team who had to somehow change the longsword

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

Mmmm, odst artwork

#

thank you father

bronze delta
#

That'll come in handy for designing my squad

scarlet hinge
#

kieran is a great artist, his marine stuff is IMO, the definitive look for them too

dusty ferry
#

I like the cambion looking one with the glowing eyes, very cool

dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

arma mod

#

being done by the same team as SoTP

dusty ferry
#

cool

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

how do y'all feel about that halo 5 concept art for postwar ODSTs

#

where they have exoskeletons

scarlet hinge
#

they have those in bad blood iirc

#

i haven't read it but i think they're mentioned

orchid kettle
#

No in Bad Blood Buck says its an old war design

scarlet hinge
#

oh huh

orchid kettle
#

its very strange

#

and it angers me

dusty ferry
tribal trench
scarlet hinge
#

yeah, it's for Sins of a Solar Empire

orchid kettle
#

He does say "Its an old war design, and apparently it has an exoskeleton in it."

tribal trench
#

So that mod team is working on a mod for the Bohemia engine now?

scarlet hinge
#

yeeeee

orchid kettle
#

and that "apparently" word choice may mean that the exoskeleton isnt standard

tribal trench
#

Interesting

scarlet hinge
#

i'm making SoTP spaceships and also working as the environment art lead for Far Isle

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

I think what they're getting at is that some rebel made an exoskeleton suit from the shell of an old war odst suit

scarlet hinge
tribal trench
dusty ferry
#

though i forget when that took place specifically

scarlet hinge
#

2540s

#

49, i wanna say?

orchid kettle
#

yeah its real late in the war

scarlet hinge
#

they fall into that weird post-halo 5 era of books i didn't find interesting enough to read

orchid kettle
#

I liked it actually

#

its super tropey

#

but like, in a way I like

#

it feels like some 90's sitcom kids fell into an alien invasion story

#

which is probably 100% the point

scarlet hinge
#

thats fair yeah

#

i'm mostly here for Silent Storm and Divine Wind

orchid kettle
#

real Animorph vibes actually

scarlet hinge
#

also Epitaph

orchid kettle
#

now that I think about it

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
#

i still need to actually read the halo novels

orchid kettle
#

people apparently hated legacy of onyx

#

but I love me some Halo High School

dusty ferry
#

I only really have the reference stuff like the new encyclopedia and Mythos and Warfleet

scarlet hinge
#

start with contact harvest and then stop there because that's the peak and you'll never get anything as good as it again

orchid kettle
#

CH IS peak

#

its actually good

#

not like

#

"good for a halo book"

scarlet hinge
#

yeah

orchid kettle
#

just good

scarlet hinge
#

exactly my thoughts

unique rune
#

I dropped off somewhere after the first Rion Forge novel and I feel kinda bad about it

scarlet hinge
#

good as an independent work of science fiction

bronze delta
dusty ferry
#

I know a guy who writes like that

#

I'm in a writers discord, and we keep telling him it's unnessecary

#

he never listens

tribal trench
scarlet hinge
#

man, oblivion was such a letdown

dusty ferry
tribal trench
#

Halo Oblivion

scarlet hinge
#

silent storm was a 9/10, and then oblivion really plummeted

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
#

ok, I need to read that just to get context on how that happens

tribal trench
#

I was so sad when I was reading oblivion at how bad it was

tribal trench
#

That book is god awful

scarlet hinge
#

oblivion annoys me at how the very thing the book is named after ends up being sidelined so we can track the very fun adventure of blue team walking through a desert

tribal trench
#

It was so hard to follow and the pacing was so so so so bad

orchid kettle
#

You can tell that Kelly Gay puts a lot of thought into why her characters are the way they are

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

like Rion's boytoy in the first book

scarlet hinge
#

they name the book after Nizat and the Path of Oblivion, and then just relegate it to the B-plot

orchid kettle
#

is very clearly a replacement for her missing dad

unique rune
#

I don’t even remember like 80% of Oblivion

orchid kettle
#

And her dealing with pain of losing him in Renegades

#

is analogous to the loss of her father as well

unique rune
#

Looking at the synopsis on Halopedia it looks familiar but wow this sounds like a whole lot of nothing

orchid kettle
#

Like sure, its a bit campy that she ends up in a cool supership

bronze delta
scarlet hinge
#

oblivion cool notes is like, giving us the Umbra, Nandao, and the first in-universe depiction of a Gigas

orchid kettle
#

but the character is carefully considered and written

scarlet hinge
#

and the super spirit

dusty ferry
#

i run it

bronze delta
#

Ah, so not Halo specifically?

dusty ferry
#

Multiple things delve into halo tech

orchid kettle
#

I think Im just desperate for more perspectives in Halo than just the UNSC

scarlet hinge
#

halo fanon is pretty nice, if you want a halo fanfiction server

dusty ferry
#

My writing does for instance

scarlet hinge
#

i recommend it

dusty ferry
#

though a lot of us set up stories to have fun combinations of tech across multiple fandoms

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

and it doesn't feel like its got more going on than that

scarlet hinge
#

Divine Wind at least has some fun POVs of the Covenant and Banished

orchid kettle
#

sure they run into crazy inhabitants they talk with and have to convince they're not hostile

scarlet hinge
#

Pavium and Voridus are fun

unique rune
#

This synopsis makes me question how Oblivion was 400 pages long

orchid kettle
#

before teaming up

orchid kettle
#

one character in a Halo story struggles to lift up that many pages on their own

tribal trench
#

I’m going to leave chat now because I haven’t read Divine Wind. Behave y’all, please

orchid kettle
#

meanwhile CH flies by because Im never stuck on a character for more than a few pages

dusty ferry
scarlet hinge
#

Same for any of nylund's works

orchid kettle
#

and it feels like I got half a dozen stories for the price of one

#

without said stories being confused or muddied

dusty ferry
#

is the confusion on purpose?

#

because that is very important, and a lot of people can miss intentional misdirection

orchid kettle
#

Well I mean like, there's a lot of characters

#

but you never get lost in the sauce

#

you don't forget who's doing what and why

dusty ferry
#

is Halo Fanon public?

orchid kettle
#

i sure hope