#lore-and-universe

1 messages Ā· Page 19 of 1

orchid kettle
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When you have one ODST character in the gang

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he can be the most grizzled military man's man alive

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but you can't have a whole cast like that

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at least, you cant have that and expect people to care

bronze delta
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Very true

orchid kettle
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I kinda end up writing my odst team as like this found family unit, and I explain that by just saying that they're weirdos even by ODST standards

bronze delta
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I've got the Grizzled Veteran, a native of New Alexandria, Reach (she's got anger issues), a Russian demolitions expert, and a Southern gal with attitude lol... Also two other characters, but I'm keeping those two secret until I post my books

orchid kettle
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I really vibed with that one line from Cole Protocol, where it was something along the lines of "You have to be at least a little crazy to drop out of space in a tin can."

orchid kettle
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not actually on the team, but just somebody they keep running into

bronze delta
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For some of my NPC's I included Palmer and Hood. Hope I did them justice in my narration and their dialogue

orchid kettle
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I usually try and avoid canon characters myself

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I think the most I've ever had is the characters hearing Cortana's ultimatum from the end of Halo 5

bronze delta
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I typically do, and for the most part they're indirect uses addressing the entire Infinity and their Spartan compliment

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Though I do have Palmer green lighting my squad for an "off the record" mission

light orbit
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Idk I assume they give him a more honourable death then just proceed to fire super weapons on him like that

orchid kettle
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the most honorable death a halo character can have is being nuked for the greater good

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Sam, Forge, Jorge, Kurt

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they love it

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can't get enough

light orbit
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Atleast it's swift but a sad way to go šŸ˜”

bronze delta
light orbit
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Damn. So is the flood still around or do we gotta wait for 343 to say something?

bronze delta
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Yes, it is still around

light orbit
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Alright

orchid kettle
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actually wait...

light orbit
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One more question was there more than one gravemind? Obviously but I wanna make sure

orchid kettle
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fireteam raven technically, Lockhart blew himself up with C12 or whatever. The ONI Lieutenant blew himself up too

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Chief almost nuked himself in 4

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if you're a halo character

light orbit
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Ah ok. Srry for asking these questions but I'm just trying to get some answers that's all

orchid kettle
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sacrificial explosion is the leading cause of death

light orbit
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Because I forgot half of the Halo lore

bronze delta
uneven maple
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The primordials consciousnessness

bronze delta
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Bingo bango

uneven maple
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Uh what?

orchid kettle
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jingo jango

bronze delta
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Jango Fett?

bronze delta
# uneven maple Uh what?

Lol, I was affirming that it's the Primordial's consciousness. The Primordial itself claiming to be the last of the Precursors

wicked wasp
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@bronze delta I only know vale as the girl who can speak sangheli

bronze delta
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Well, you're not wrong

deep coral
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kelly > vale

bronze delta
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Linda's my personal fave (even named my Terrain after her for reasons,) but is still pretty equal with Kelly, Vale, and Palmer

lucid bone
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do you think the tv show will drop a new season this year retconning everything that happened before or just drop new episodes remaining original

obtuse crow
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Hmm.

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Not sure.

boreal bane
lucid bone
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idk man im just contemplating

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but i am interested tho on new episodes

hazy shadow
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I think they will continue down their current path... whatever that is.

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I think they could kind of pull the nose up and do some interesting things with this timeline, but it's dumb that they burned so many hardcore fans just to start things out. Makes it hard to justify future seasons when your actual dedicated fanbase aren't fans.

dusty ferry
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the tv show was weird

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like, it has the look down

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it has cool locations

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that are in the lore

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it just...

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the plot was wack

bronze delta
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The Silver Timeline will very likely continue as is, as it's established to be separate from the main Halo Universe

vivid umbra
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TBH, it's ironic to see you say that, as I saw in one of your old posts that you said something about them not being relevant.

orchid kettle
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this man pulling out the receipts

unique rune
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Honestly Iā€™d like to see which post youā€™re referring to because I have said many things that Iā€™ve changed my mind on

orchid kettle
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I've kinda come around on the Created conflict as a narrative. I think like most things in storytelling, the overarching premise isn't the problem so much as the execution.

gilded mason
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I still think it was awful to even start it, but I would have preferred a more..."complete" resolution to it.

orchid kettle
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I dunno, I enjoy Bad Blood a lot

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and taken on its own merits, jumping from planet to planet while on the run has a lot of appeal

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if anything my beef is the fact that its Cortana

unique rune
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Yeah, I think that's about where I'm at with the Created

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Pretty interesting story potential but the way it was carried out left a very bad first impression

orchid kettle
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If it was just like, the Didact in charge

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wanting rule over humanity instead of just shooting a laser at them

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it'd probably be a lot easier to swallow

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this idea that Didact sees his return as like this heroic savior thats gonna come in and rescue the lesser species from war and want

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whether they want it or not

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Whats kinda sad is that a lot of the potential storybeats you could have for a story set during Cortana's reign

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as like, a military ship on the run

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is something you'd end up exploring a lot on zeta halo anyway

hazy shadow
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Having the composed Didact in place of Cortana as starting the Created would have worked better, I think.

orchid kettle
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Running low on supplies, the military hierarchy eventually breaking down as the people lose hope and wonder if there's even a UNSC at all anymore

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I guess the benefit is more varied locales

hazy shadow
unique rune
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The Created conflict feels like something that could've logically been played out over the course of the 10-year lifespan that 343 wanted to get out of Infinite which I think is one of the things that really frustrates me with the campaign we did get

orchid kettle
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but I assume zeta halo is more than a pacific northwest forest

orchid kettle
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The mention of Banished humans in Rubicon felt almost obligatory

bronze delta
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I still find it interesting that Cortana quoted the Didact verbatim in her Edict to the Galaxy

orchid kettle
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rather than like, an actual storybeat

safe hawk
orchid kettle
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all a trap to lure Chief back

bronze delta
orchid kettle
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maybe its like a classic piece of literature from the Domain

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and they're both plagiarizing it

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true villains

bronze delta
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Talking about humans reclaiming the Mantle?

orchid kettle
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in the original text it was actually Hugh Man

safe hawk
bronze delta
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No, all of this was post Halo 4

orchid kettle
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well frankie was from bungie

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so this is all Bungo

bronze delta
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Not all

orchid kettle
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im bungo

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you're bungo

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he's bungo

unique rune
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we are all bungo on this blessed day

orchid kettle
heady geyser
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I always wonder what if the Didact didnā€™t have the logic plague would he help chief or no

bronze delta
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I think he would have, having known the threat of the Flood. As well, if he had not been isolated, cut off from the Domain for 100,000 years

twilit birch
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How does master cheif take a wizz?

orchid kettle
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he pees and the suit slurps it up

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or his augmentations are so powerful he can just hold it forever

twilit birch
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Recycle kids

orchid kettle
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no kids you put in the green can

dusk jetty
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Trashter Chief

heady geyser
bronze delta
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I think that was established before Trashlands

heady geyser
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Glasslands was that bad?

bronze delta
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I absolutely hate that book for numerous reasons

gilded mason
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On a sort of related note, I like how some people actually defend ONI in that book despite them literally being a rogue agency during it

heady geyser
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Why would people defend ONI the rouge agency that kidnapped children lol

bronze delta
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And, y'know, the genocide

gilded mason
gilded mason
bronze delta
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And their boi Mr White has an uwu crush on his big strong Spartan that he is totally going to protect (never mind that she can bench him)

limpid tangle
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Chief jacker when

bronze delta
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Never

limpid tangle
heady geyser
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Did the candidates that died that were place in cryo ever got resuscitated or no

gilded mason
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Some amount, yeah

bronze delta
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With the one's that they've resuscitated, I'd put into question most of them that "died"

light orbit
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Grunt adopting baby canon lore?

dusk jetty
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ā€œWe feed them nipple!ā€

humble yacht
gilded mason
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I'd say doing what they did on Sanghelios without the knowledge of the other leaders of the UEG counts for something.

humble yacht
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meh, that sounds par for the course for intelligence agencies

bronze delta
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They didn't. The Sangheili did.

icy yoke
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What's 75 children to save a billion. Spartan III took the children whom already orphaned

unique rune
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They played a role, sure, but no number of Spartans would've saved humanity from getting flattened by the Covenant had they not fallen apart at the last second.

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Hell, even with the Schism going on they came very close to completing their goals.

bronze delta
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I'm saying that ONI didn't save Humanity, the Sangheili did. If it was not for the Great Schism, the Covenant would have ended everything.

And no, Chief did not save humanity many times. He did it once.

humble yacht
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the only reason the schism happened when it did was because chief changed truth's timetable

bronze delta
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No, the only reason the Schism happened was because Thel survived

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And the Sangheili weren't as dumb as the Hierarchs thought they were.

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How what?

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One second, in a match

unique rune
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Killing Regret did Truth a favor, if anything, lmao

bronze delta
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Chief stopping the Rings is the one time he saved all of humanity.
Killing Regret stopped nothing, really.
Cortana stopped the Didact, not the Chief.

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Doing what?

unique rune
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Chief being able to stop the rings was only really facilitated by Sangheili assistance anyway

bronze delta
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And Blue Team as a whole stopped the Didact?

unique rune
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No way he would've been able to do anything if Hood's bullheadedness had only permitted the Forward Unto Dawn to go to the Ark all on its own

bronze delta
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With help

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Chief has never singlehandedly saved the galaxy. Ever.

unique rune
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...Neither am I?

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Chief wouldn't have been able to stop anything if it was just the Dawn's forces present at the Ark to fight the remains of Truth's fleet

bronze delta
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Cortana stopped the Didact while Chief was dangling off a bridge.

unique rune
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Judging by the way Hood was acting in Halo 3? lol no

gilded mason
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And it'd take several weeks for them to get there anyway

unique rune
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"We're gonna hunker down and save who we can" buddy your planet is under attack from the Flood and for all you know Truth is seconds away from killing everyone in the galaxy

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I will never understand what in hell Hood is supposed to be thinking during that scene in H3

bronze delta
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Again, the one time he saved anything, and got there with massive help

bronze delta
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???

gilded mason
unique rune
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Hey why did they send Johnson and some Marines after one of the shield towers instead of another Sangheili unit in H3 anyway

bronze delta
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So then how can you say that Chief saved humanity multiple times, when it was a massive joint effort?

unique rune
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He pushed buttons and shot some dudes

bronze delta
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That's so far from the point

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Not really

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During the entire campaign the Chief is backed by entire armies, both UNSC and Swords of Sanghelios. The Chief did nothing more impressive than... shot some dudes.

unique rune
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Only because the game doesn't show you like 95% of the conflict

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What do you think the entire rest of the Fleet of Retribution was doing at the Ark?

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There was an entire Sangheili fleet at the Ark dealing with most of the Covenant fleet present so Chief could focus on pushing the right buttons and shooting the right dudes

bronze delta
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If it was not for the Great Schism and the Swords of Sanghelios joining forces with the UNSC, the Chief would have died well before reaching the Ark, and humanity - and everything - would have been gone. The Sangheili saved humanity, and carried them along to save the galaxy. Chief only pressed the button through ability of his genetics, nothing more.

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The Control Rooms of what?

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The Ark? Oh, right, the Flood literally carried him along.

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Installation 04? Literally inconsequential to anything.

gilded mason
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And Thel was there too

unique rune
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Sangheili forces may not have carried him while on the Ark but he'd have died with the rest of the Dawn if not for the Fleet of Retribution's presence

bronze delta
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It's literally not

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The Flood got him to the Ark's control podium

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I rarely stoop to this, but did you play the level?

gilded mason
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Didn't they literally have a scene going "We can't make it" and the Flood going "Then we'll ease the way"?

bronze delta
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"Do not shoot, but listen! Let me lead you safely to our foe. Only you can halt what he has set in motion."

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Lead you safely

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And you are still absolutely, willfully, ignoring that without the Fleet of Retribution, none of that would have been possible

gilded mason
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That is basically a synonym for what I said.

unique rune
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I mean ultimately it's just more than a little bit false to claim that ONI saved the galaxy when it was really a confluence of things going right so the Spartan guy could push the button good

bronze delta
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And the Flood wasn't ended, so what did that reall ysave?

unique rune
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Considering said confluence was required to get him there at all so he could make the ring go boom again instead of chilling on Earth with Hood as they all died very painful deaths...

bronze delta
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It halted nothing, really. And let's not forget that damaging the Ark led to the Monitor of the Ark tearing up large parts of Earth to rebuild the Ark

unique rune
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Did I?
I literally said he shoots dudes

bronze delta
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What?

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Do you understand just what a Gravemind is?

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A gravemind (there can be multiple at once) is an amassing of biomass and consciousness known as a keymind that serves as a focal point of coordination for the Flood. It's not quite a "final evolution stage", nor does it "control" the Flood as every part of the Flood is a part of the greater whole. You can't "control" what you are.

Destroying a Gravemind potentially delays the Flood, nothing more. Which is what Chief did for the Flood on the Ark; he delayed them. The Flood still remain in the Milky Way, and remain a very significant threat. Chief stopped nothing.

graceful crest
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Hello, so Iā€™m reading halo rubicon and it says they tried to get a signal for backup, but hasnā€™t cortana taken over the galaxy and empd everyone at the end of halo 5, so who would they contact?

bronze delta
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There's a lot of content between Halo 5 and Infinite you'd need to catch up on, but in essence by that point they're probably sending a signal for any of the other crew of the Infinity. There was still communication across Zeta Halo, which we see in Halo Infinite

orchid kettle
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The signal in Rubicon Protocol is interstellar

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like if I recall, they mention having to pick a random direction, and hoping somebody in that direction has the means to receive the message

orchid kettle
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but the multiplayer story is also assumingly happening in the six month gap between the zeta halo ambush and chief waking up

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since the tutorial mentions they just lost contact with the Infinity

bronze delta
orchid kettle
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but yeah, I was under the impression that after a year of Cortana rule, and then the Infinity being seemingly destroyed

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the UNSC is just done

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Im sure it'll magically bounce back in the next game

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but if you were one of those Infinity survivors on Zeta, I wouldn't blame you for assuming there just isn't a UNSC anymore

bronze delta
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Especially after Sydney, I don't see how it can just bounce back, though

orchid kettle
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tbh I didn't really believe humanity could bounce back that much so soon after Halo 3

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but when the franchise needs a new entry

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life finds a way

bronze delta
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I mean, to be fair Halo 4 takes place almost 5 years after Halo 3

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And from what we have between that time it wasn't really an "I'm the King of the World!" type scenario

orchid kettle
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well

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they did kinda throw in an analogous line in the spartan ops intro

dusty ferry
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To be fair to the created conflict, from what I understand, interdicting a system doesnā€™t destroy infrastructure

orchid kettle
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it kinda does

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Luna is just outright dead

dusty ferry
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So the UNSC bouncing back isnā€™t as impossible as it was post halo 3

orchid kettle
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because everyone lived in controlled bubble cities

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that lost all life support capabilities

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It was only with the help of Virgil that the Guardian's damage could be undone on certain machines

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like ships

dusty ferry
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Huh

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That seems like a design flaw given guardians are supposed to be peacekeepers

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Worst police bots ever

orchid kettle
orchid kettle
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in media around this time, it really doesn't feel like anyone could meaningfully take Earth head on

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Innies, pirates, and aliens were still a threat, yes

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but they often had to resort to guerilla warfare and subterfuge

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like, the threat wasnt so much a massive invading army coming in to wipe everyone out

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but getting caught up in a relatively local conflict between groups with a lot of guns and itchy trigger fingers

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or having your school seized by terrorists like in Legacy of Onyx

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Like in Envoy, there's only really a threat to the people on that planet because they chose to forego UNSC protection and strike it out on the frontier

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Have an actual UNSC fleet there, and Hekabe would just have to kick rocks and go home

bronze delta
bronze delta
dusty ferry
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Yeah, but the forerunners were supposed to like things being alive given the mantle. Thatā€™s part of the whole debate on the ethics of the halo array from what I remember.

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
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Then again, guardians are canonically early forerunner creations

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Maybe they societally developed since then

orchid kettle
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It feels like the point of the Forerunner Trilogy is to show how the Forerunners kinda "deserve" to get wiped out, and have the rest of the galaxy outlive them

dusty ferry
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Yeah. Just seems like a weird oversight that they just kill people on space stations and some cities though. Captured infrastructure is more useful even if itā€™s not the best

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
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it fits with the biblical allusion to Noah's Ark as well

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this idea that man was so bad God decided to hit the reset button on them

dusty ferry
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Yeah, thatā€™s part of why I think the people who get angry about the forerunner changes are weirdos

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Beyond dredging up a stupid dog whistle to keep attacking 343

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Like, I have issues with them, but having a decade of people constantly complaining about your existence has to suck

orchid kettle
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Well, my complaint is with splitting Forerunners and humans up, even if you apply the band aid solution of "well maybe they had a common ancestor 15 million years ago"

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because in the biblical allegory here

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Man is not "Man"

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We're the monkies Noah is saving

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And least for me, I vibe with the idea of

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"Humans used to rule the galaxy. And it was awful."

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Because then you have that angle of "Will we learn from our mistakes? Or will we forever repeat this doomed cycle?"

dusty ferry
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yeah, and thats fine. You have the complaint of how it affects the allegory. Other people use it as a hitpiece on the people who work on halo

bronze delta
# orchid kettle "WE are the giants of the galaxy."

Ahhh (that's the Multiplayer intro), but I think that's more just talking about how Humanity isn't the underdog anymore, and that there's all this nifty Forerunner tech we've got. Also totally helps that the Covenant races are in-fighting and being spurred on by ONI

dusty ferry
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like i watched the we were forerunner video a couple of days ago with a friend of mine, and like it starts out fine, but it shifts to screw that one guy in particular halfway through

orchid kettle
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Yeah if I was him, I would have cut out that bit

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Just present the evidence, and let it speak for itself

bronze delta
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Frankly myself, I'm very glad to separate the biblical allegories. Leave enough to where individuals can make that link, but don't make it so OTT

orchid kettle
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Trying to witch hunt never really ends well

dusty ferry
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yeah, that made the point get so muddled beyond the guy also constantly having issues with trying to accept that some people like the 343 lore

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and i guess ignoring how the tail end of the bungie stuff stopped supporting the point

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
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honestly, they just need to flat out admit the ancient human stuff was what the covenant were actually using for the most part. That keeps the dramatic irony while sticking to the new lore

orchid kettle
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ancient humans having their own civilization is also kinda weird

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because ancient humans, before they were turned into cave men

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only really matter in their relationship to Forerunners

dusty ferry
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I admit, i liked the humans being forerunner, but this new direction could have a ton of interesting ideas with it

orchid kettle
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it feels like it was ultimately done to give the Didact a reason to hate us

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and clearly, the Didact didnt pan out

bronze delta
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I know we've been over and over this before but I really don't think it does. Because the Covenant is still getting things wrong, and exterminating the Inheritors of their "gods" will. They're still - by their metric - blaspheming.

orchid kettle
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I agree its still there

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I just believe to a lesser degree

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and I don't like that, personally

dusty ferry
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honestly, the didact could have just been an ancient human. Imagine if that human admiral guy was the didact instead. Have the old humans come and say, "you are inheritors of a terrible people"

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bam

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instantly hooked on it

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i get that has some lore issues, but it would have been awesome

orchid kettle
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of course the double irony is that the last living Forerunner would actually be kinda cool with killing all humans

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šŸ¤”

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so uh, good job truth, you were accidentally correct by saying that the Covenant god(s) want humans dead

dusty ferry
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343's biggest story issue is not sticking with an idea. They change too much to try and get fans back which while admirable just alienates other people

orchid kettle
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the Didact would shake your hand if you lived long enough to meet him

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your creepy, bony hand

dusty ferry
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like, if we had a created game that would be sick

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if we had the post halo 4 chief versus the diadact comic as a game

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that would have been great

bronze delta
dusty ferry
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he's saying its less ironic that humans are inheriting the forerunners versus the humans actually being forerunner.

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
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for the covenant to be killing them

orchid kettle
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But I do believe its potency is diminished

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and when the origins of the Covenant War is such a big deal to the series

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I think that is a problem

dusty ferry
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I'm afraid 343 won't commit to the new people they just introduced

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and that sucks

bronze delta
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I think the potency was diminished or gone in Halo 2 when it was revealed that the Great Journey was a lie and the Forerunners "died" after firing them. Having "Humans = Forerunners" added on would have just been redundant.

orchid kettle
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I'm not sure if that's what dramatic irony means

bronze delta
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For it to be dramatic irony, it would have had to have been revealed to Truth and all the Covenant that Humanity was Forerunner, their gods. That their actions had been lies. With how things panned out, that was never possible to have been done.

dusty ferry
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dramatic irony is when you know something a character doesn't

orchid kettle
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Thats not what dramatic irony

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it just means the reality of a character's words and actions are clear to the audience, but not the character in question

dusty ferry
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dramatic irony, a literary device by which the audience's or reader's understanding of events or individuals in a work surpasses that of its characters.

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britanicca

dusty ferry
bronze delta
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Ah, gotcha

orchid kettle
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Every time an Elite calls a human a dirty heretic when the human is in fact, the very race they worship

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Thats dramatic irony

bronze delta
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It would still be dramatic irony, as we know that Humans are the "chosen". What the Covenant calls "heresy" is, in fact, their birthright and destiny. Even still with the division of the species

dusty ferry
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yeah, your describing tragic irony

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if its revealed to the covenant at large that the humans are forerunner

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i think anyway

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wikipedia is weird on the irony article

orchid kettle
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Like I keep mentioning, its not like its gone

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just with every degree of separation

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its lessened

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And I feel like in the Halo series as a whole, its beats like this you want to hit as hard as possible

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so diminishing them in anyway, even if just by 1%

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i just don't think is categorically a good idea

dusty ferry
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the prophets previously betraying humanity, and then doing it again is hilarious

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thats one of the better parts of the new lore

bronze delta
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Did they betray humanity?

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I know the Ancestors and San'Shyuum were allies, but I don't remember a betrayal

orchid kettle
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For me too, I just feel like there's very few instances I like a lot that's contingent on humanity and forerunners being separate

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whats weird is how Im probably one of the few Endless defenders

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but it feels like their grudge would be a better element if it was actually leveled at us

bronze delta
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In a manner, it is

orchid kettle
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Harbinger: "I am not your enemy. But I WILL punch you through this mountain!"

bronze delta
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The Forerunners shut them away and propped us up

orchid kettle
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Again, it sorta is

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in a Sins of The Father's Third Cousin way

dusty ferry
dusty ferry
orchid kettle
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It just feels like a grudge that you'd think characters would immediately protest with

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"You know Im not Forerunner, right? I never met them, I don't know them, they shoved all this Reclaimer nonsense onto us, we didn't ask for it."

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but they probably won't so the story can happen

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of course somebody could make a similar plead if forerunners WERE ancient humans

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but then you could have the Harbinger rebuke with "Humans-- you never change."

bronze delta
orchid kettle
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tying into what I mentioned previously

bronze delta
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Humanity has the scepter, do you really think they'd let it go so willingly?

orchid kettle
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this question of if we can ever truly rise beyond our past transgressions and be better

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or if we're doomed to repeat the loop

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over and over

bronze delta
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Especially if it means the loss of their gifts?

orchid kettle
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there's already some weird "history is repeating itself" thing going on in Infinite to begin with

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And I remember in that forerunner video, he had the interpretation that a race sacrificing themselves to stop the Flood is something that's happened even before the Forerunners, once again implying a cycle

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and perhaps the point of Halo 3 is that Chief has broken the cycle

dusty ferry
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I've had this long held belief that the precursors stripping the forerunners of the mantle was a test

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a test to see if you could accept someone else being better than you

bronze delta
#

That is... an interesting thought

dusty ferry
#

and that the flood is a test of if you can work with others

#

like, the flood is a broken version of that, but it was in some way kind of meant to occur

bronze delta
#

Eh, nah I still think the Flood would just be bitter revenge. I don't think it's origins are muddled too much

#

Anything's possible, though

dusty ferry
#

i get that from the flood attacking the humans first when logically that doesn't make sense for the grudge

#

like it fulfills its test

#

and then goes to deal with the grudge

bronze delta
#

IIRC, it wasn't attacking them, right? Like, there was the whole myth about humans being immune, when it was just the Flood not infecting them?

dusty ferry
#

I know. It just was where they first showed up.

#

why waste time when your enemy is right there?

gaunt ember
#

what have i missed on the flood?

dusty ferry
#

the endless i feel work as a test for if you are being true to your own culture and not just regurgitating out designs based on your ancestor civilization

#

if this theory is right anyway

#

its probably not, but its a cool idea

gaunt ember
bronze delta
#

I think the Xanalyn are Precursors, myself

dusty ferry
#

yeah, i thought that as well when i first saw them

#

i still think that to be true on some level

dusty ferry
gaunt ember
bronze delta
#

15 at least

gaunt ember
bronze delta
#

Well, no. I'd say about an 8. It's not impossible, and the gaps are being closed. But it's not simple, either.

gaunt ember
#

is there any other way of getting lore other than finding the termenals in halo 4

orchid kettle
#

Since Halo's a fairly recent sci fi franchise, its really not that bad

dusty ferry
gaunt ember
dusty ferry
#

installation 00 is also kinda good at it

#

also read the books they mention. Most of them are pretty good from what i hear

gaunt ember
#

what was the name of the halo spartans that were put in the back lines of the covenant

dusty ferry
#

gray team i think?

#

I'm not sure

gaunt ember
#

maybe

orchid kettle
#

Gray Team, Headhunters

#

now Lone Wolves

gaunt ember
#

yea

#

thanks

orchid kettle
#

I honestly forget what the difference is between Black Team and Gray Team, in terms of like, what missions they specialize in

gaunt ember
dusty ferry
#

Black team has the weird mjolnir ecckharts ladder made a video on

#

and they died to the diadact

#

i think anyway

orchid kettle
#

A similar team of boys who also went on top secret missions

#

of course thats kinda true of Spartans in general

#

their deal specifically is that they had a prototype supersuit that was basically Chief's Halo 2 suit before Halo 2 happened

gaunt ember
dusty ferry
#

yeah

#

he lived into a comic

#

and then died again

gaunt ember
#

oh

orchid kettle
#

Both Gray and Black team have only ever been in like two stories

#

Gray has two whole books

#

And Black has a comic, and a short story

#

So naturally, Black Team has a lot less story content if you just count like, words on a page

#

but you kinda understand that both teams were problem children in the Spartan program growing up

gaunt ember
#

I've always wondered what the deal with the covenant

orchid kettle
#

However, one day, they find humanity on a far flung colony. The Prophets from Halo 2 actually "discover" that humans are Forerunners. Which is bad, because if they didn't become gods, then that ruins the entire point of Covenant society

#

which is like, the promise of eventual godhood if you listen to the Prophets

#

So they decree that humanity be annihilated.

dusty ferry
#

its basically like finding out heaven is fake

orchid kettle
#

to hide all evidence

gaunt ember
dusty ferry
#

arguably, the reveal in the modern era is that the covenant aren't reclaimers. They are now told by an angel that they were never worthy to go to heaven/become gods.

#

and that these guys you just met are basically jesus

#

and when your society is designed so that your species is on top of the religion which binds everyone together, that's not good for you

orchid kettle
#

They've never released a rewritten version of Contact Harvest though

#

so I guess we're meant to believe that the Forerunner AI who revealed all this still said the same thing

#

its just now, the Prophets misinterpreted him

#

and he never corrected them

dusty ferry
#

to be fair, mendicant was the loser of the war and could reasonably have not known the recalimers weren't forerunners

orchid kettle
#

(even though he started talking in the first place because he was mad that the Prophets kept getting things wrong)

#

šŸ˜

dusty ferry
#

given how conceited they were when he was around

#

though, they haven't made an updated contact harvest, so my spitballing could be way off

gaunt ember
#

are the species that are in the covenant fighting at their own will or are they forced

dusty ferry
#

The grunts we see in the games are more or less child soliders who have repeatedly rebelled against the covenant

#

the elites are there due to honor and that being their role in society up until Halo 2

#

the jackals are getting paid

orchid kettle
#

honestly, the religion is mainly to keep the Elites in line

#

Since they're the real military power

#

everyone else is kinda like

dusty ferry
#

the Engineers however, are totally being forced

orchid kettle
#

"Join our religion."

gaunt ember
#

what happens with the elites in halo 3-4

dusty ferry
#

like, they genuinely don't want to be here

orchid kettle
#

"No?"

#

"I wasn't asking."

dusty ferry
#

to be fair, the religion is the main binding force culturally

#

of the covenant

#

without it, they are lost

gaunt ember
orchid kettle
#

I think we're told though that Jackals are mainly paid for their service

#

and Brutes are relatively recent addition

dusty ferry
#

yeah, their an exception to what we normally know

orchid kettle
#

its hard to believe a new religion has already taken root to such a degree

#

in less than one generation

gaunt ember
orchid kettle
#

The aliens you fight in Halo 4 arent actually the Covenant as we know them

dusty ferry
#

they just weren't present with the storm covenant

orchid kettle
#

They're just like, dudes who still believe Forerunners are gods

#

and humans suck

dusty ferry
#

one of the groups who do anyway

orchid kettle
#

but they're largely just Elites

#

and I assume their Grunt slaves, and their Jackal mercenary buddies

dusty ferry
#

yeah, its basically a faction in the elite civil war for the most part

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

There's no Prophets involved

#

or Brutes

#

because Elites tend to not like Brutes

#

for the events of Halo 2-3

dusty ferry
#

most of the prophets are dead, or have run as far away from known space as possible

gaunt ember
#

oh yea a goofy this is that promethians are also humans

orchid kettle
#

are they mercenaries

#

or are they like, some Elite's best friend

#

and they just go wherever their pal goes

#

But this is also why the Banished are unique

gaunt ember
dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

while they're largely Brutes, they accept anyone and everyone

#

Including Elites and even Humans

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

who don't believe in racism

gaunt ember
orchid kettle
#

I assume the reason why we don't fight any human banished in Infinite

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

is because Chief mowing people down doesn't seem very heroic

dusty ferry
#

they like, had 3 years of rebellion at best before the great schism

#

its more like they were thieves running away from possibly getting destroyed by fleets that would destroy them

#

and then they gain prominence after the fall of the covenant

gaunt ember
#

why did the elites have an alliance with the humans in halo 3

dusty ferry
#

like someone orastrated the systematic murder of the humans siding with the banished on zeta halo, and atriox was like "stop it" but did nothing to change anything

dusty ferry
gaunt ember
dusty ferry
#

the halo 4 elites are lead by a different faction of elites

#

those ones for some reason still are in on the forerunner god thing

#

the big thing post halo 3 is that every covenant species kinda broke into a bunch of smaller things. You have the Halo 4-5 covenant who are Jul madamas bros, the swords of sanghelios (the arbiter and his friends), and a couple others who don't appear in game. and thats just the elites

gaunt ember
#

interesting

dusty ferry
#

yeah, the specifics are in the books

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
#

yeah

icy yoke
gaunt ember
vast edge
#

So what happened to the Mantle?

orchid kettle
#

it fell behind the fridge

#

and nobody has been brave enough to get back there and grab it

graceful crest
graceful crest
bronze delta
#

They're outside the Galaxy

heady geyser
#

I love how there was a unsc ship call unsc say my name lol

obtuse crow
graceful crest
dusty ferry
#

How did atriox get off the ark again?

gilded mason
#

Traveling there the long way

dusty ferry
#

Oh

gilded mason
#

Oh, off?

dusty ferry
#

Yeah

boreal bane
#

Bus pass

gilded mason
#

Allies activated a portal that was on Reach.

dusty ferry
#

Ahh.

#

I was going to ask how the banished functioned without atriox, but I remembered that Escharum exists

heady geyser
safe hawk
humble yacht
icy yoke
#

Banished function like any gang. Devote to a cause you can survive even if leadership is killed. Gang mentality new chief takes his place

heady geyser
#

Iā€™m pretty sure atriox have a plan in place if he gets killed

flat kernel
#

His plan while he was away on the ark was for escharum to lead, and Iā€™m pretty he had a contingency to keep escharum as the banished leader if he died. Because you know that was what happened

deep coral
#

does spongebob exist in halo

#

i need to know šŸ˜”

icy yoke
#

Made of sponge. HA HAHAHA HA

steep ether
gaunt ember
#

whats the name of the beings who created the humans prophets and forerunners?

timid stump
gaunt ember
#

oh?

#

might be something else

#

but i think its that one

timid stump
#

Then the Forerunners killed them

gaunt ember
gaunt ember
timid stump
gaunt ember
#

man i love this community

timid stump
gaunt ember
timid stump
# gaunt ember why did the elites have an alliance with the humans in halo 3

Because most of the Elites stopped believing in the Great Journey (the Covenant's religion, which states that by firing the Halo rings you'll start a journey to join the Forerunners in another part of the universe where they supposedly are).

The Prophets (the race at the top of the Covenant chain of command) saw the Elites' rebellion and started slaughtering most Elites and replacing Elite commanders with Brute commanders, who were more obedient and religious and would not rebel.

So these rebel Elites that deflected the Covenant and who were led by the Arbiter allied with the UNSC (the humans)

#

At the end of Halo 3, the Arbiter takes his Elites to "home" (Sanghelios, the Elites' native planet).

In Halo 5, we see that these Arbiter forces call themselves the Swords of Sanghellios, and they finally defeat the last remnant Covenant group, ending the Covenant forever.

gaunt ember
#

right?

timid stump
# gaunt ember so in halo infinite master chief is fighting the banished

Yes. After most of the Covenant is destroyed in Halo 3, some new groups emerge from it:

  • The Swords of Sanghelios: the - mostly Elites - forces led by the Arbiter. They don't believe in the Great Journey and are good guys and allied with humanity. They don't want war.

  • The "Covenant": a weakened and minor part of the most radical and religious Covenant forces, who still believe in the Great Journey. They are an antagonist faction in Halo 4 and 5 and are finally destroyed in Halo 5. They still call themselves simply "Covenant", they are led by Jul M'Dama.

  • The Banished: this faction is a mercenary/pirate/raider force led by Atriox. Atriox was a Brute commander within the Covenant and after seeing how the Covenant manipulated and lied to the Brutes and other species he decided to rebel against the Covenant and establish his own faction.

They don't believe in the Great Journey and their troops are mostly voluntarians, instead of being enslaved like in the Covenant. They are mostly full with forces that were in the lower part of the Covenant chain of command (Brutes, Grunts, Jackals, few Elites though there are some).

Atriox promotes a message of "No religion, no manipulation, no politics, we will plunder our way through the galaxy and gain autonomy and power so nobody can oppress us again like the Covenant did".

They are the main antagonist faction in Halo Wars 2 and Halo Infinite and in Infinite they try to take Zeta Halo to establish it as their new home. Zeta Halo can also be fired at enemies so it's basically a home that can be used as a weapon; that way, nobody would threaten them.

timid stump
gaunt ember
#

but why is he fighting the banished?

timid stump
# gaunt ember but why is he fighting the banished?

In Halo Infinite, they are trying to establish Zeta Halo as their new home and as a weapon so they can have disuasion power and nobody tries to attack them because they could fire the ring.

But, the ring is partially broken and doesn't work as a weapon and can't be fired (after a certain event that's a spoiler), so the Banished try to repair the ring.

Master Chief and the UNSC arrive at Zeta Halo and want to stop the Banished from repairing the ring because like I said their new home would basically be a huge weapon, and they could use it to threaten and extort everyone.

"Do as I say or I fire the ring at you". Zeta Halo has a firing mode that can be directed at a sole planet.

That's the premise of Halo Infinite.

quiet shoal
#

Daaang

#

Bro knows his stuff

gaunt ember
quiet shoal
#

I wanna see what are his thoughts about what happened to the ODST on zeta

vast edge
timid stump
timid stump
timid stump
timid stump
#

Though I still have to read The Rubicon Protocol, maybe they say something about ODSTs there

orchid kettle
#

with some super edgy name too

timid stump
gaunt ember
orchid kettle
#

I figure ODSTs are around, we just don't see anything but marines

#

In the same vein that you'd figure some people would be more civilian contractors or navy personnel or whatever

#

but you'll only ever rescue Marines

quiet shoal
#

Yeah

quiet shoal
#

Though itā€™s likely

vast edge
#

Is Airborne really still needed? It seems like it would've been replaced by ODST

unique rune
#

Not every mission is going to justify or have access to ODSTs and the associated resources (see: space warship in orbit) for that

#

Maybe a couple Pelicans filled with airborne infantry are better optimized for mission needs than nutjobs falling from space in titanium coffins

quiet shoal
#

badass nutjobs

orchid kettle
#

I also assume ODSTs can be deployed in any way the situation calls for

#

In the same vein that modern Marines aren't exclusively transported by sea

quiet shoal
#

Well I mean they are Orbital

#

Not Aerial drop shock troopers

#

ADST

#

That would be pretty cool though

unique rune
#

We do see them being deployed via Pelican like in the campaigns of 2 and 3

#

Broadly speaking I just donā€™t see them entirely supplanting airborne units
Especially since theyā€™re technically Marines Corps

Army probably has its own demands that ODSTs may not necessarily meet

bronze delta
#

The UNSC does have an Air Force; that's who helped Noble Six with UPPER CUT, as well they were the pilots in the beginning of Spartan Ops. If memory serves, there was also a UNSCAF pilot in Ghosts of Reach

orchid kettle
#

To this day, I continue to dream of a Halo where we stuck to Nylund's idea that the UNSC was largely just Marines and Navy

#

with I presume CMA taking up the sort of duties the Army and Air Force have now in Halo

#

with the extra flavor of being a separate military entity that's looked down upon by the UNSC

#

Of course it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say that on Reach and other inner colonies, the UNSC would have its own bases and take up similar duties

#

with the CMA being reserved for outer colonies

bronze delta
#

Nylund had the Army as a part of the UNSCDF as well though; Col Ackerson was Army

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, the idea that the UNSC is just Guy with Gun and Guy In Ship I assume was largely an early one

#

but its one I like for simplicity's and world building's sake

#

mainly assuming you throw the CMA on top of it

#

to further reinforce this idea that in human space, there's Earth, and then colonists

#

and the UNSC is firmly in the former

#

of course purely in the context of the human covenant war, human forces being synonymous with "UNSC" would make it simple too in a way

#

but I for one like that the human rebels didn't just disappear the second the aliens showed up

#

At least in theory, definitely a bigger fan of Cole Protocol than I am Silent Storm

#

where in both cases the rebels are throwing a wrench into things

bronze delta
#

-Blam!- I need to connect that in my second book

orchid kettle
#

Honestly you could probably argue that instead of the Covenant war ending the CMA once and for all

#

It actually gave it a new lease on life as rebels flocked to sign up to protect their homes, and figured between the two, it was better to sign up for the CMA than be drafted into the UNSC

#

assuming the draft is real, they've always been very cautious to answer that question definitely

bronze delta
#

Isn't that pretty much where the NCA came from?

orchid kettle
#

i think at most, we've heard that Dutch was drafted

#

but it was in one of those character profile videos waypoint would do every now and then

icy yoke
#

More likely CMS saw bigger enemy

#

UNSC wanted tow long conformal lines, Covenant be like...nah we're gonna exterminate you.

last anchor
#

Im not actually sure the UNSC drafted anyone for the Covenant war.

#

At least, that Ive heard of. They certainly werent drafting people for the Insurrection fighting during 2525 but maybe that changed at some point

orchid kettle
#

I could kinda see it happening considering what was on the line

bronze delta
#

On call at work so can't type much

tribal trench
#

Your message is getting deleted by the bot for being a duplicate message

vast edge
#

Oh is there a cooldown?

tribal trench
#

If you send the exact same message twice, yes

vast edge
#

How much Halo lore did Bungie create before they released Halo Combat Evolved? 20 years later and I'm hearing dialogue filled with lore. Captain Keyes mentions Cole Protocol, Cortana mentioning Reach, Monitor 343 calling Master Chief "Reclaimer"... I thought most of this stuff was added into the later games and books but they've been there the whole time

tribal trench
#

Halo: The Fall of Reach, which came out in 1999 iirc, set up some of this stuff, but most of it was just one-off bits of dialogue or plans for a story that never panned out

#

several people are of the belief that "Reclaimer" meant that humans were supposed to be forerunners, originally

#

But even in public areas such as Twitter, you sometimes see even old Bungie devs disagreeing with each other about bungie-era lore decisions

#

Rarely, though

bronze delta
#

Fall of Reach came out a month or so before CE, still in 2001

#

Still at work so not able to contribute much lol

vast edge
#

I did remember monitor 343 saying that master chief *was actually forerunner at the end of halo 3

dusty ferry
#

It was planned that humans and forerunners were the same at one point

#

This changed late into halo 3 based on all the sources I have

#

Given the terminals were a late addition that almost got cut for time, contact harvest was written alongside halo 3 (most likely anyway) and the mentions basically stop after that

#

Though this is an old wound people feel the need to reopen for some reason

bronze delta
dusty ferry
#

I was just assuming contact harvest was likely planned out before whatever shifted the gears to the split

#

But that also works as well

bronze delta
#

Contact Harvest was written while Joe Staten had no contact with the studio. He was on admin leave

dusty ferry
#

That explains a lot

#

I still donā€™t get why everyone blames frank for the change

#

One guy canā€™t just change the entire lore on a whim

#

Especially if he isnā€™t head writer

bronze delta
#

Also to note it was a whole team writing the terminals, not just Frankie

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, that one vid which blew this up is basically a hit piece on frank

#

Which honestly makes it unpalatable

#

A friend made me watch it, so that sucked a lot

bronze delta
#

Yeah, I dislike the theme of "he stole the story"

dusty ferry
#

Itā€™s just the least likely answer

#

Especially when everything made after 3 had no actual support for the theory

#

And the guy ignored that

#

Itā€™s like he has never heard of people changing their minds

hazy shadow
#

Yeah, it's a fundamental lack of understanding for the creative process. And it's not like there wasn't plenty done about it after the fact. Hell, one of the recent books basically said that Forerunners and Humans are off-shoots of the same genetic root anyways.

bronze delta
#

As well our geas making us "Forerunner" in title and inheritance

surreal glen
#

This debate about the humans being or not being Forerunner is stupid and unnecessary

bronze delta
#

Agreed

unique rune
# dusty ferry I still donā€™t get why everyone blames frank for the change

Because heā€™s one of the few Bungie employees that people can name and who stayed with 343 during Bungieā€™s transition away

And so itā€™s easier to go ā€œ343/Frankie badā€ than it is to recognize that some decisions are a lot more complicated ā€œrogue writer goes on retcon rampageā€ or whatever stupid thing

orchid kettle
#

surely somebody has to approve Staten's work for it to move on to being published

#

And all things considered, its really only one scene you'd have to alter

bronze delta
#

From what I've heard from Tobias Buckell at a signing, the major plot? Yes. Every minute detail, nah. So that one little line would absolutely fly under radar

orchid kettle
#

I mean, its not a little line though

bronze delta
#

They should do a rewrite of it

orchid kettle
#

whats also strange is that Truth says "Some were left behind..."

bronze delta
#

Well, little textually, not thematically lol

orchid kettle
#

which is oddly consistent with his dialogue in Halo 3's campaign

#

where he thinks modern humans were "left behind"

bronze delta
#

When did he say that?

orchid kettle
#

"I see now why they left you behind."

bronze delta
#

Ah, Truth

orchid kettle
#

"Your forefathers wisely set aside their compassion, steeled themselves for what needed to be done."

#

"I see now why they left you behind. You were weak. And gods... must be strong."

bronze delta
#

Idea: We have an ancilla playing up the Great Journey in Divine Wind. A good fix: 1, Mendicant was still rampant or confused, 2. He was jacking with them

orchid kettle
#

Its like I've been saying

#

excuses like "The character is wrong/lying/crazy" will simply never be satisfying

bronze delta
#

Yes, but it helps make it cohesive

orchid kettle
#

because they actively make the story said dialogue appears in worse

#

and Halo 3 honestly has enough story problems without having to assume that every single antag is crazy or lying

#

when they don't really have a reason to

orchid kettle
bronze delta
#

Well, we do know that Truth is insane

orchid kettle
#

but not cohesive internally

bronze delta
#

No, cohesive with the internal material that went in a different direction. The terminals are still in Halo 3

orchid kettle
#

And the campaign is in Halo 3

#

and is consistent with Contact Harvest a month later

#

also I kinda just remembered--

#

the idea that humans were left behind actually comes from 2

#

When Chief asks the dying Mercy where Truth is going

#

he says Earth, and

#

"And this time, none of you will be left behind."

#

or something to that effect

bronze delta
#

I think Mercy was more talking about their genocide. Because he says "to finish what we started"

#

That's always how I took that, at least

orchid kettle
#

In writing, good dialogue means more than one thing sometimes

#

now granted in 3, Truth's goal is kinda unclear

#

because he should know the great journey is a sham

#

But it was perhaps more cohesive in the Halo 2 cut ending

#

where Truth may have been trying to enter the Ark on Earth, and place himself inside the coffin thing that had the human/forerunner generic material

#

which perhaps would have allowed his dying species to be remade on Earth

#

in his image

bronze delta
#

Driving home but can expand thoughts on Mercy's line

orchid kettle
#

the best I think of in 3 is that, with the cat out of the bag, Truth hopes to wipe the galaxy clean, and live out the rest of his life on the Ark as God-King

#

since the Ark is safe from the rings firing

#

Of course don't ask me why Truth has Tartarus try to activate Delta Halo in either version of the story

#

maybe its a bit more reasonable for Truth to assume in the cut ending that he'd be safe inside the Ark on Earth when the rings fired

#

but that's assuming the skeleton in the coffin is there because it was shielded from the ring

#

since we never really seen what the halo rings actually do to somebody before then

orchid kettle
#

Like, Forerunners were said to be made 15 million years ago

#

i assume thats the split

#

our last ancestor with Chimpanzees was 6 million years ago

#

There was also apparently a popular fan theory back in the day that Forerunners made humans in their image

#

but I honestly don't like that explanation either

#

Like, if we're not the direct descendants of the people who's arrogance and disregard for the other races of the universe almost led to the end of all life as we knew it

#

I don't think its meaningful

#

Like, if they're not a dark reflection of humanity, then they really are just ancient aliens

#

Its just one of those ancient aliens happened to be a human weeaboo

bronze delta
#

Running low on spell slots so conversation's going to be thin. But, thoughts on Mercy's line.

So I always took that to mean their war against humanity. Finishing that. With the whole "none of you will be left behind," I always took that as referencing Reach being partially glassed, and the Pillar of Autumn escaping. Basically that they were going to fully annihilate the planet.

gilded mason
#

I always felt it's a weird line for annihilation, since that would make more sense to leave out the 'behind' part.

"This time, none of you will be left!"

But the addition of "behind" definitely feels like it's meant to go in a different direction.

bronze delta
#

Well, from First Strike we know that several humans were left behind on Reach, including a few Spartans. I really think it's a line just referring to that there will be no survivors to come back and hinder their Great Journey, no one left behind to dog them.

#

Frankly, with the development hell that was Halo 2, I don't think they had the "Forerunners left behind" bit written or thought out. It was much just to get Halo 2 out

orchid kettle
#

Then it makes sense that Contact Harvest is just an extension of whatever the direction was immediately after Halo 2

orchid kettle
#

Although, I still believe that the origin of the Prophets outlined in Contact Harvest was meant to be a parallel to what happened to ancient humanity/the Forerunners

#

along with the Brute event of the First Immolation

#

What with how a small group is risen up to great technological heights and leaves their home planet forever, and the whole "nuking yourself back into the stone age" thing being an allusion to the rings firing

#

Of course in the Prophets' case, the split happened, what, a few thousand years ago? Not millions

#

And this interpretation isn't far off with what Paul said he and another writer felt like the terminals were saying

#

That rather than being two different species entirely, Forerunners were just humans that were snatched from their home planet by the Precursors, and risen up to their hyper advanced status

#

Though Paul does use the "millions of years" time frame, and I've explained before why I feel like that's too much time, as humans and forerunners wouldn't really be the same species

#

Like at that point, Guilty Spark might as well call the Halo 3 easter egg monkies "Forerunners" too

orchid kettle
#

which suggests that whats blowing their mind about Earth, which they just found before the rings fired, is how there's somehow more of their species living as cave men on this backwater rock

#

my theory then is that the Forerunners then reseed themselves on Earth, along with the native population

#

and they're close enough genetically that the two groups interbreed and essentially become one tribe

#

Like how some people living today just have Neanderthal blood in them

#

I believe that solves the issue of how we have fossil evidence of humans evolving on earth, as well as how somehow we could also have a hyper advanced civilization a hundred thousand years ago

#

while also for Guilty Spark's words to still be true

#

and not in a "from a certain point of view šŸ˜‰ " way

#

It also potentially explains how the story of the Flood lives on as the biblical story

#

without having to do what Halo 2's cut ending did, where the Ark is a machine thats beaming information into the population's mind

quiet shoal
#

Squid head fights homsapien with gun

#

Zombie octopus comes can ruin everything

#

Monkis betray squid face

#

Squid face join homsapien

#

Large zombie octopus joins squid and large green metal robot

#

Then betrays them

#

Then is massively separated by a big explosion of a mushroom city

#

Floating lightbulb assaults Al matthews

#

Floating lightbulb gets owned by the green metal robot

#

Big space ring explodes after Arbyā€™s we have the meats and green metal robot escapes it by playing forza horizontal for a bit

#

Arby almost gets crushed by a tank and the Elmer FUD gets spilt in half

#

Leaving green metal robot with cool blue lady alone floating in space

#

Green metal robot then decides to take a nap cuz he just saved humanity again

quiet shoal
#

I just simplified a part of halo 3 lol

#

And very much dumified

vast edge
#

Would you consider Halo "hard" military fiction, or "soft military fiction"?

orchid kettle
#

I think soft, especially in the bungie era

vast edge
#

Certain things that happen and I'm like "no way in hell that could happen in a true military scenario

orchid kettle
#

Nylund was pretty laser focused on Spartans and military personnel, but then you had books like CH and Cole Protocol where a lot of attention was shared with various non-UNSC or even non-human characters

#

and of course in the games themselves

#

the UNSC only needed to be the pop culture idea of a military

#

As in, wearing green, Sergeants yelling at Privates to shape up

#

"Sir yes sir!"

#

even though the person they're saying that to isnt an officer

vast edge
orchid kettle
#

that is true

#

but then you have Denning writing like half of the 343 books out today

#

and they're even more military focused than Nylund

#

Then you crack open the Halo encyclopedia and Spartan Field Manual and get confirmation that Marine ranks and unit organization are 1:1 with the modern US military

#

the marine page in the encyclopedia is particularly dense with all the various "COMs" of the marine corp

#

MARFOR, NAVCOM, UNICOM, ADCOM, etc etc

#

oh and OPCOM

#

and it details what sort of squads make up a platoon and all that

vast edge
orchid kettle
#

Personally for me, since I was never in the military, I'm cool with the UNSC being a bit lighter on the jargon

#

A lot of ODST fans like them because they're closer to an actual soldier than the superhero-like Spartans

#

for me the appeal is very specifically in how a normal person deals with all these aliens that could rip them limb from limb

#

even in Contact Harvest, you hear about a Grunt ripping a Militia recruit's chest open

vast edge
gilded mason
#

Grunts can even rip Spartans' arms off.

orchid kettle
#

Its probably on a case by case basis

#

Dutch snaps a Grunt's neck in Babysitter

#

though he also does the same to an Elite in Helljumper

#

with his giga thighs no less

#

so maybe Dutch is just extra

gilded mason
#

Dutch is just superman, pay him no mind

orchid kettle
#

He has the power of God AND anime on his side

gilded mason
#

lol

quiet shoal
#

I like Romeo better in the comics imo

#

Heā€™s cool in ODST but I like him better there

orchid kettle
#

I like Helljumper a lot

#

though I will say, the thesis of the story, while one I agree with

#

is kinda weird in how it comes from Romeo

quiet shoal
#

Yeah

orchid kettle
#

because of how... Romeo he is

#

when a character like Romeo scoffs and says "Spartans are overrated, I could do their job ez pz"

#

and then he goes on to legitimately save humanity without anyone realizing

#

its pretty crazy

quiet shoal
#

Definitely expressed how strong odst really are

orchid kettle
#

The benefit of writing ODSTs I guess is that while they can't be Spartan-tier in everything

#

you can still have them excel in something

#

like how in Helljumper, Romeo shoots like an action movie hero

#

and Dutch is the pure muscle

quiet shoal
#

Yeah especially when they where about to steal the phantom

#

I wished 343 paid more attention to that instead of focusing on Spartans

orchid kettle
#

Its definitely more fun to follow those kind of action scenes, where the characters have to drop steel scaffolding on Elites or duct tape grenades together to blow up a cliff face to slow down an army

#

because to Dutch and Romeo, fighting that army head on just isnt in option

#

Meanwhile I swear in one of the Denning books, Chief says something to the effect of "Oh we probably COULD go out and fight that army head on and win, but we're on a tight schedule so we're gonna keep moving"

#

and i think once an army of aliens is an inconvenience to your characters

#

that kinda shows the power has crept too high

gilded mason
#

A pretty biased take coming from me, but I always felt the non-Spartan PoVs in Denning's books were a lot more compelling than the Spartan ones.

#

One reason being what ya just said

shell mango
#

Johnson was a great example of a character not just thrown in as a diversity cast

bronze delta
#

They're more fun to write as well, from my perspective

orchid kettle
#

at the very least, I can enjoy one Spartan in a cast of normal people

gilded mason
#

Like, Oblivion has more personal stakes involved with Nizat, and the book was even named after his plotline.

orchid kettle
#

Because while that one can go off and do superhero stuff

#

the other characters are still very mortal

orchid kettle
bronze delta
#

See a good challenge; writing Spartans that are supersoldiers, but still human

orchid kettle
#

the story isn't really about Blue Team

gilded mason
#

Exactly

orchid kettle
#

kinda like how in Halo 2, Arby is the one actually having an arc

#

and Chief is there to have fun gameplay

bronze delta
#

That's actually a really good point for Halo 2

orchid kettle
#

They'll rarely if ever butt heads or disagree on things, and they'll always have Chief's back

#

and while thats nice for Chief

#

I don't find that as interesting as following the dysfunctional family of Alpha-Nine

bronze delta
#

Gods, imagine how Halo 5 would have gone if Fred pulled rank and stopped Chief

orchid kettle
#

Halo 5 probably should have featured Blue and Osiris as parallels to each other

#

While Blue Team breaks down because of Chief's irrational decision making

bronze delta
#

I like Halo 5, but it is lame how at first Fred is all "Is Chief okay? This is so weird" to "Okie dokie Chief, I trust your judgement!"

orchid kettle
#

Osiris goes from disliking each other initially to growing together as a team

bronze delta
#

They disliked each other?

orchid kettle
#

Apparently in an older version of the script

bronze delta
#

Ah

orchid kettle
#

hence Tanaka's "We've come a long way, Osiris."

#

a line that doesn't really have any meaning in the version we got

#

unless she means like, literal physical distance

gilded mason
bronze delta
#

It'd be nice to see earlier missions with them

#

But I kinda figured she just meant the emotional length of their journey from Kamchatka to Sunaion

orchid kettle
#

But yeah, I kinda prefer it if the team has enough of a dynamic that you could shove them in a room together and the dialogue just writes itself

#

And you certainly get that in Bad Blood with Buck, Mickey, and Romeo

#

where there's a lot of arguing in the condor between jumps

quiet shoal
#

I gotta read that

bronze delta
#

I know exactly how that goes lol

quiet shoal
#

I gotta read what lead up to rookies death

orchid kettle
#

Here's the wild thing

#

I hate New Blood

#

but I really like Bad Blood

quiet shoal
#

Which came first

orchid kettle
#

I dont like how we got to where we were

#

but I really like the drama of Bad Blood

bronze delta
#

New Blood was basically a synopsis of Halo 3: ODST with extras while the narrator tried to sound like Nathan Fillion

orchid kettle
#

New Blood leads into Bad Blood

quiet shoal
#

Oh ok

orchid kettle
#

or more accurately, New Blood sets up Buck in Halo 5, and Bad Blood is after 5

quiet shoal
#

They really did bucks helmet dirty in five

#

It looks squished

#

Or added bigger tubes to the sides

bronze delta
#

It's the breathers on the ends

#

Though I personally liked the ODST-inspired MJOLNIR

orchid kettle
#

HELLJUMPER probably is the best GEN2 has ever looked, especially in the encyclopedia art for Alpha-Nine

bronze delta
#

My fave is still COPPERHEAD, though my personal armor uses ARGUS body kit to honor Linda

orchid kettle
#

best ODST design remains Halo 3 ODST tho

quiet shoal
#

Yes

orchid kettle
quiet shoal
#

They did get it right in infinite though

#

Finally

orchid kettle
#

Though Reach ODSTs do have a spot in my heart

#

even if they're VERY chunky lads

quiet shoal
#

Indeed

orchid kettle
#

though the Halo 3/ODST design does look a whole lot more like a special spacesuit at a glance

quiet shoal
#

Eeehh kinda

orchid kettle
#

while Halo 2/Reach is more accurately described as "Marines in black with a cool helmet"

#

which is what the ODST game manual says

#

where it insists that the only big difference is the helmet

quiet shoal
#

And armor

orchid kettle
#

but thats clearly not true

#

while its considered questionable these days, the old encyclopedia apparently said that ODST gear hides your thermal signature

#

the cosplay guide says the shiny box thing under the chestplate is an "auto medic"

quiet shoal
#

Huh

orchid kettle
#

so clearly, yeah, ODSTs have more unique things than just a cool helmet

quiet shoal
#

It does look like one

orchid kettle
#

ironically, if true, this sounds like an advantage ODST gear has over MJOLNIR

#

i guess because MJOLNIR has shielding and a fusion reactor on it

quiet shoal
#

And not to mention the ā€œstrike fear into enemy heartā€ factor

#

A lot more than ODSTs did at least for the covenant

#

What is the ODSTs called something like Demon?

orchid kettle
#

Imps

quiet shoal
#

Well it kinda reminds me of the ones in Mombasa in odst

#

Just more compact

orchid kettle
#

I think what the cosplay guide meant was like

#

its a computer that notices your suit has been breached in the gut

#

but i feel like the ODST would notice if they got shot

quiet shoal
#

Well yeah Iā€™m sure any would notice getting shot, especially by a covie weapon

orchid kettle
#

like i guess if you want an explanation for how your helmet HUD knows what your health is

#

the lil computer on your sternum is calculating that

#

and sending the results to your helmet

quiet shoal
#

Probably would have been better to put it behind the titanium chest plate

orchid kettle
#

yeah

quiet shoal
#

Not where itā€™s likely to get destroyed

orchid kettle
#

in Nightfall, it turns out the air supply tank

#

IS the center chest piece

#

which is kinda silly

quiet shoal
#

Yeah major design flaws there

#

One strike to the chest with a needle stare and there goes your air

orchid kettle
#

its also the same story where guns only fire if you have electricity

#

its pretty dumb

quiet shoal
#

Bruh what

orchid kettle
#

and its why i theorize that Nightfall was an otherwise unrelated scifi script

#

that got turned into Halo

quiet shoal
#

Or they just wanted to seem like Locke was an important character

orchid kettle
#

so anything electronic attracts them

quiet shoal
#

Oh

orchid kettle
#

and for some reason that includes guns

quiet shoal
#

I didnā€™t know that

#

Cool

orchid kettle
#

its very strange and not something Hunters have ever been described to do

#

or halo guns for that matter

quiet shoal
#

I guess they though they should get more deadly

#

šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

#

Unless that was explained somewhere else

orchid kettle
#

I mean in theory, the idea of covenant races being able to kill you in more than one way is cool

#

it just feels like for the very specific kind of threat the hunter worms were

#

it just sounds like the generic brand Flood

bronze delta
quiet shoal
#

And ammo counter

orchid kettle
#

In Nightfall, its very specifically the case that you have to "turn the gun on" to fire it

#

which is just not how guns work

#

unless there's some system where the safety doesn't turn off until some electronic system approves you

bronze delta
#

I'd have to watch it again, but that may be how guns work 500 years from now, or that the electronics are a more critical function to them

orchid kettle
#

Like I said, there's never been any hint that guns in the halo universe have worked this way before

#

after all, a gun is a very simple mechanism

#

you pull the trigger, and it releases a pin/hammer that strikes the cartridge

#

achieving boolet

bronze delta
#

If memory serves, weren't they still using their guns after shutting the electronics down?

orchid kettle
#

there's really no reason to throw in some electrical system into the mix in terms of firing the actual gun

orchid kettle
#

Its kinda the crux of one of the scenes where they're in-fighting that if one character wants to shoot the other, they have to turn their gun on, and that will lure the hunter worms

#

like, every gun prop has lights on it so you can tell if they're on or off

#

Like, Nightfall is just silly. The premise is that there's a bioweapon that's made from a special element that kills humans only

#

and its only found I guess on the nuked Alpha Halo fragment

#

and one of the characters is a former Spartan who's been de-augmented

#

which sounds impossible unless they gave this man a brand new skeleton

#

And it was also our introduction to the Yonhet

#

who are just humans in makeup, star trek style

#

and hunter worms that mutated from being nuked and surviving somehow

#

Like-- all things considered

#

Nightfall feels more like an unrelated sci fi script than the Halo TV show

#

Having to power your guns on makes sense if they're meant to laser blasters

#

having humans in makeup be your alien character makes sense if you have no budget

#

and no creativity

wicked wasp
#

How does Dutch look so old but is only a corporal

dusty ferry
#

Fighting a war against genocidal aliens does that to you

hazy shadow
#

This guy has never heard of the E4 mafia, apparently.

lucid bone
#

if they continue infinites story

#

do you think atriox will be defeated

#

or dragged out until either master chief or our mp spartan kills him

orchid kettle
#

which I personally don't buy

#

I just think ranks are whack in bungieland

tropic mica
#

I hope they introduce other warlords before they off Atriox. They should have some for each species.

worldly imp
#

Today In The Halo Universe year 2560: Nothing has happened for 2 years since Master Chief escaped the Silent Auditorium. He and the Pilot have been sitting in their cockpit together twiddling their thumbs (totally not intercepting a friendly tag that might be the Spirit of Fire, because that would be Ludicrous ) Master Chief and the new Cortana await something new from this season of dry stringy chicken breast-like Campaign on Zeta Halo. With no new adventures in sight (thanks to the people upstairs controlling that universe) it seems Master Chief has been condemned to taking FOBs and replaying boring levels for the rest of his over-extended days. Hopefully some new unoriginal plot device will be tossed in to make things less boring and more depressing for the Master Chief. Maybe someone (totally not the spirit of fire) will come and help them explore the rest of the totally explorable ring. Maybe they'll find a species of monster that lives on Zeta Halo that has never been seen before. Or maybe they'll find a beach with a mysterious being beneath the depths. Or, crazy Idea, they find the flood and all the other things that still live on this halo ring. But no one will ever know (except the people upstairs controlling this universe) what will happen to our boy in green.

valid pasture
#

Iā€™m rewatching Forward Unto Dawn and thereā€™s a detail Iā€™m struggling with. Where had Master Chief come from, or been, in order to come across the situation of Corbulo Academy?

worldly imp
valid pasture
#

Surely there has to be some reason. He just appears, a 15 year-old Spartan, without his accompanying team at the academy. Not exactly the most tactical move

worldly imp
bronze delta
#

The higher ups of the Academy were aware of the Covenant, following Harvest. That's visually conveyed on their faces during the middle of the movie. That it was the Covenant likely drew the attention of Spartan teams, with Blue Team being the one assigned to Circinius IV

valid pasture
#

Ah, thanks a lot

icy yoke
#

4 years of war 1941 to 1945

bronze delta
#

Could also be shoddy Xbox 360 graphics trying to make him look like Adam Baldwin

scarlet quiver
pallid thicket
#

When you fully consider the original purpose of the Spartan program, it almost blackpills you to them

#

ā€œHey Outter Colonies, you will stay with the UNSC and enjoy your miserable lives or we will drop cyborgs from orbit to teach you a lessonā€

scarlet quiver
#

Hmm, that is an interesting point.
Back when the books were initially released, I wanted more "rebel and outer colony" stories to showcase the other side of the war.

#

I though that seeing how they viewed the UNSC and Spartan program would further enrich the lore.

valid pasture
#

Anyone else noticed that every ship the Master Chief has set foot on has inevitably crashed or blown up?

hidden cobalt
#

thinkingchief good point, might be some pelicans in halo 3 that don't though? unsure about that.

bronze delta
#

Lol

#

S117: "Sir, permission to come aboard."
CDR: "Uh no, no thank you sir. You're good out there."

orchid kettle
#

he may save the galaxy as a whole

#

but boi is he bad at protecting the people immediately next to him

#

The fact that the Pilot survives an entire game is honestly nothing short of a miracle

#

and also largely because Escharum is meming around

bronze delta
heady geyser
#

Whatever happened to unsc say my name