#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 18 of 1

hazy shadow
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Cortana literally gains access to the grid as part of CE's story lol

heady geyser
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I mean she did teleport chief upside down lol

bronze delta
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No, it was the Gravemind. He teleported John-117 to High Charity, which was not on Installation 05's grid. Bear in mind that the Gravemind does have that capability, and once it gathers enough power and biomass can even transcend to other dimensions and galaxies

heady geyser
bronze delta
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I am so glad that the Axon Clips (I Love Bees) was canonized. Such a good story

sonic lagoon
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Well teleporting them may have provided them less armor than with the pelicans and ships.

sick current
bronze delta
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You can find the transcripts on Halopedia. One moment

meager field
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when people complain about the storyline becoming less entertaining, at which title in the timeline are they generally referring to?

copper spire
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Hey do you guys think that masterchief is too op in the novels or just right?

meager field
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(referring to her DC film in 2017)

copper spire
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Oh yeah she was kinda too powerful ares didn’t feel like a threat to me

obsidian thistle
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He almost dies a few times. So I wouldnt say he is Op.

Just lucky. (Which is a character trait he has lol)

copper spire
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Oh yeah he almost got choked to death to a regular brute in one book & almost got infected by a flood one time, damn masterchief is really lucky lol 😆

bronze delta
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"Luck" is the dumbest trait, I said what I said...

But no. I wouldn't say the Chief is overpowered, I would say that other Spartans are underplayed. Spartans are gods of war, they're supposed to tear through everything. Yet even still with the novels set in later years, we see the Chief succumbing to his age and the augmentations wearing out.

copper spire
dusty ferry
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I mean, one of the S-II candidates is implied to see the future

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Luck isn't the weirdest trait on the list

copper spire
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Really?!

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Damn I never knew

dusty ferry
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I remember that being a thing. Like ONI tried picking him up, but always evaded them or something. It's been a hot minute since i checked

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lemme find the source

copper spire
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Alright then.

dusty ferry
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this guy

fickle viper
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I do like the whole Oni "Spartans-never-die" cool tagline, but for all their 'might' there are a suprisingly low amount of Spartan IIs left..

bronze delta
dusty ferry
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i linked the article on halopedia

bronze delta
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Ah

copper spire
fickle viper
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It's propaganda to raise moral, its a war thing

copper spire
dusty ferry
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He never made it to the program

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straight up just dipped on ONI

copper spire
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Damn

dusty ferry
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saw the future, went Nah

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don't wanna

copper spire
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Lol

bronze delta
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Purported. His neural mapping showed heightened intuitiveness, which isn't seeing the future.

dusty ferry
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It's funnier if its true though

copper spire
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Ohhh still powerful tho & useful

bronze delta
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Funnier, but not accurate. Although with the presence of geas, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

dusty ferry
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I know, thats why i said it like that. For all we know, that's like some super specific trait left in by someone

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which apparently requires blunt force trauma to activate

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unlikely, but its possible

copper spire
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Is this in a novel of somekind?

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The Spartan with precognition?

dusty ferry
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its in halseys journal which was part of the deluxe editions of halo reach

copper spire
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Ohhh ok good to know thanks

bronze delta
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Hrm, just had to rename two of my Sangheili and I'm not mad about it. There's a suffix, -ai, to denote swordsmanship

dusty ferry
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i like how we know enough about the sangheili to do that

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i wish he had more lore on like Grunt culture

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i wanna hear unggoy poetry

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if we get deep lore,, i hope it mimicks things like reconstruction era african american culture and other newly unoppressed peoples

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basically, unggoy rap or i riot

bronze delta
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I would expect something more akin to South Pacific

dusty ferry
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seems legit

safe hawk
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A great take on the hunt the truth campaign

boreal bane
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Yep, that's well written

bronze delta
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I've been saying that since Halo 2's ads

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Also remember the "Believe" Battle of Voi that never happened?

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Also Hunt the Truth: Season 1 effectively re-classified the Spartan-II Project after Traviss casually disseminating that information

safe hawk
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Halo trailers for the most part has stayed consistent in how it sells the game. But halo 5 was icing on the cake

bronze delta
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Oh yeah; Halo 2 drummed up a HUGE fight for Earth. Which, granted, did happen... But we weren't there

safe hawk
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Were it so easy

safe hawk
crimson grove
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Hey anyone know what happened to the Grunts after the covenant was dissolved ?

bronze delta
dense falcon
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Grunts were still taken as cannon fodder for factions like the Banished or 'Mdama's Covenant. Balaho went into somewhat of a food crisis, tried to cut a deal with humanity but humanity didn't output enough, and then the Created came and they subjugated immediately.

safe hawk
crimson grove
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@dense falcon With High Charity and their Home world glassed How could they probably survive ???

bronze delta
dense falcon
safe hawk
dense falcon
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Plus that was hundreds of years ago. We don't know if they've recovered the glassed territories already, but if Meridian was going pretty well at it in just twenty something years, it's possible Balaho has already removed all the glass I can't pronounce.

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Lechateralite?

bronze delta
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Yeah, that

dusty ferry
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the current encyclopedia states that in the wake of cortanas defeat, they have a competent fleet seeking to free the slaves

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pretty metal

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so we know the unggoy are currently in a strong position

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hope we see more of an unngoy government

obtuse crow
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Halo 3 covered Africa.

deep coral
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I wanna see an unggoy with a rainbow propeller hat

dense falcon
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Close enough

bronze delta
# obtuse crow Halo 3 covered Africa.

Yet still, the "Battle of Voi" was a lot less than what we were lead to believe it was going to be. And as well, the Chief was never captured by the Covenant.

Nor did he really die, which was a big part of the "Believe" campaign.

safe hawk
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And Miranda, which was also lowballed in 3

gilded mason
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And Thel

safe hawk
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All for big green man to go pew pew pew and save the world

bronze delta
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Don't forget Rtas 'Vadum, who still didn't get named

safe hawk
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Then they brought him back in 5 in a very good way, JUST for him to get sidelined again for big green man

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Halo fans honestly stink

safe hawk
bronze delta
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Thel was such a BADDIE in Halo 5. The Battle of Sunaion was BOSS

safe hawk
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From the soundtrack

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The scale

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MAN

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Just would’ve wished we got the option to play as Thel once more

obtuse crow
last anchor
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Actually come to think of it; methane burns, doesnt it?
I guess if Balaho doesnt have much oxygen on it it would be fine but if the Covenant tried to burn more of the planet they might have accidentally cyclonic torpedo'd it

deep coral
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why do some people say the unsc is fascist?

dusty ferry
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because during the war they took over the civilian government

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among other things

abstract wren
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and they never gave the power to the UEG in practice
ONI is doing a lot a shady things without being approve by the Navy, sometime by the UNSC/UEG

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Of course there is also the fact of the Insurrectionnist

drowsy mesa
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technically, the UNSC returned the civilian power back to the UEG after the end of the Covenant War

gilded mason
drowsy mesa
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ONI always has done stuff without the UNSC or UEG knowing it

gilded mason
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Yeah

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Just saying that the UNSC returned the civilian power back to the UEG in name alone.

orchid kettle
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And I guess it depends on how much you believe the Innies

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what I find interesting is how in the few times we've seen Innies and UNSC personnel argue with each other in person

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the idea that the colonies could be treated better or deserve independence is never really in dispute

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the issue is just how the Innies go about it

gilded mason
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"Sure, we treat you like trash, but you're so mean when you fight back!"

orchid kettle
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and it seems like on Earth, the UNSC was wildly unpopular

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implying public sentiment didn't really align with them

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At least as seen in Contact Harvest

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where Johnson feels like he's getting dirty looks for wearing his dress uniform in public

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and the recruiter mentions it being impossible to find volunteers for the Marine Corps

bronze delta
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And I mean, just really the base notion of the Unified Earth Government needing their hands in the Outer Colonies and sending the UNSC to enforce that? Yikes on trikes

tiny oracle
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Is the original bungie lore was the flood a mysterious virus parasite thing that just came across ancient humanity?

bronze delta
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Not sure

unique rune
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Sort of? It was just kind of a thing the Forerunners fought a losing war against. Never really expanded on them beyond that.

tiny oracle
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No the bungie lore

bronze delta
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Bungie never had an answer for where the Flood came from

tiny oracle
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Ok

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Also how the hell did the rookie survive new Mombasa by himself but got killed by insurrectionists

obtuse crow
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Skill issue.

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Idk.

tiny oracle
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Rookie dyeing offscreen was a bad idea

gilded mason
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Wasn't really offscreen

tiny oracle
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Yes that offscreen

gilded mason
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It was a full scene in a book

tiny oracle
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Offscreen like you don’t see it on the game

gilded mason
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Offfscreen is when it happens without hearing about it in realtime

tiny oracle
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No?

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I’m pretty sure offscreen means you don’t see or hear it on the games

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But still he’s death was bad

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Bringing him back in h4 or 5 would’ve been better

unique rune
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I mean, was it, though?

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He’s an absolute nobody of a character

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There’s nothing meaningful you could do with him

tiny oracle
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I still like him

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He could be a odst that was assigned to help cheif

unique rune
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Like I doubt he actually survived New Mombasa by fighting his way through, more like he snuck around the city and dodged Covenant patrols as he could

bronze delta
unique rune
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Why would the UNSC assign an ODST to help the guy that’s gone AWOL with a whole fireteam of Spartans???

tiny oracle
tiny oracle
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I was gonna say halo infinite but that games story is just garbage

bronze delta
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The Halo where Chief had little to no Marine backup, and was mostly in situations that an ODST would be absolutely useless?

tiny oracle
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💀

unique rune
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An ODST would just be dead weight for the Chief

tiny oracle
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Nvm it’s that day

tiny oracle
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Rookie can be implemented like that

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But except in h4

unique rune
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Yeah and canonically an ODST squad would just be dead weight to the Chief
or any Spartan

tiny oracle
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Not really

bronze delta
unique rune
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Literally Spartans have described having to drag Marines around as a bit of a pain because they’re so much softer and weaker than Spartans

tiny oracle
bronze delta
tiny oracle
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Basically seeing Rookie and the other odsts from the game h3odst would make a great mission

tiny oracle
deep coral
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i don’t think the rookie was alive in halo 4

bronze delta
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He wasn't

bronze delta
tiny oracle
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In my opinion they would’ve been cooler than spartan 4’s

bronze delta
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You're welcome to you opinion, but they're not more effective at all. Factually so.

tiny oracle
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Yea

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Isn’t that what’s happening on h4

bronze delta
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Not during that level, no.

tiny oracle
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Wdym ?

deep coral
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i want to see more litches in halo

tiny oracle
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Wouldn’t chief be sent to the frontlines on requiem

bronze delta
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That was a coordinated strike (kind of) to assault the Gravity Well so that the Infinity could escape. Not really an operation for special forces

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That, and against next to Spartan-IV's, a compliment of ODST would be useless.

dusty ferry
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Except that they used mostly special forces

tiny oracle
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Master chief

dusty ferry
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Which I’m 80% sure Spartans still count as

tiny oracle
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Is a special force…

dusty ferry
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Like, odsts would still not be a good plan no way to hell jump and all that

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They have no real valid activation during halo 4’s main campaign

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At best, you could consider a spartan ops mission

tiny oracle
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Idk who knows but good talking with y’all I’m going asleep

bronze delta
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Both Spartans and ODST are Special Operations, yes. ODST, however, are - as their name indicates - Shock Troopers. They're not generally deployed for that kind of an assault

dusty ferry
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The only place in halos 4-5 I can see normal odsts being used is during the last sanghelios mission

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To show the unsc doing more for their Allies

bronze delta
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I could see them being present during the Infinity's crash, but more as just support for the Marines while the Spartan's are fighting off larger forces

obtuse crow
icy yoke
hidden cobalt
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lightsabers canon, basically

icy yoke
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Me thinks idea Next Halo game, remnant Ancient Humanity will be villains

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Technologically they just shy forerunners. But have greater tenacity and ambition.

indigo wharf
orchid kettle
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You'd only really get fan ire in return

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Especially since Rookie's death doesn't even really feed into Mickey's heel turn later

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Since Mickey was pals with the other Spartan Turned Rebel in boot camp, who probably put in a lot of leg work

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Mickey in Bad Blood is also pretty adamant that what happened was inevitable given what the UNSC was and what he believed in

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Rookie's death is ultimately just an excuse to not have a mute character in the story

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even if you see it as part of the reason why Buck feels like he's no longer worthy to lead

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That obviously didnt stick, as Buck left Osiris as quick as he joined as nobody liked Halo 5

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I also personally don't like Rookie dying because in Dirt, Rookie is the inheritor of Gage's will and resolve

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He's the only person who knows Gage's story

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with his death, Gage has died again.

safe hawk
gilded mason
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The story was fairly widely panned.

calm rampart
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I liked that the story was set in different planets

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But considering this is halo it's kind of disappointing there was no halo rings

safe hawk
safe hawk
orchid kettle
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I mean, even if you liked Halo 5 and Osiris, it seems pretty clear that after it released, there were attempts to distance Halo from that narrative

gilded mason
# safe hawk Can you elaborate?

Undoes Cortana's emotional death from only one game prior, kills off a major character in the first level to introduce the Cortana plot, the game plot itself kinda being pointless since the characters all end up back at square one with Cortana being able to go on with or without what happened in the game, Cortana's whole plan not being expressed in an adequate way considering things like Prometheans just wholesale slaughtering innocent people she says she wants to protect, this whole AI revolution thing not being appropriately built up at all before this game, etc.

safe hawk
gilded mason
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Yes, multiple times.

safe hawk
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Link?

gilded mason
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And would even, during the promos for Halo 5, say "Oh, that's just the 'ghost' of Cortana John is seeing! He's just trying to process his loss!"

safe hawk
gilded mason
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No, I mean devs were literally saying that the actual Cortana we see in Halo 5 was just a 'ghost' John was imagining

orchid kettle
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I mean, Halo 5 also insists that the Didact's ship entered slipspace at the last second before the nuke went off

safe hawk
orchid kettle
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which just plain doesn't happen in Halo 4

safe hawk
orchid kettle
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The nuke goes off

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we see the ship falling to pieces around Chief

safe hawk
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The nuke did go off

orchid kettle
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Also, the issue with Halo 5 isn't so much retcons

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But the direction of those retcons

gilded mason
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Ye

safe hawk
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But we know in halo 4, that cortana replicated herself

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Multiple times in the system

orchid kettle
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And in Halo 4, Chief and Cortana having to deal with her very real mortality is the emotional crux of the story

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Capping off with Cortana dying in front of Chief, despite all their efforts

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In Halo 5, bringing her back doesn't have a good ending no matter which way you go

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either Chief just blows her up with a rocket launcher like she's another Didact, and he mourns her all over again, which can feel like a repeat of what we already got in 4

safe hawk
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What?

gilded mason
orchid kettle
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or she IS redeemed and turns good again, and Chief just has Cortana back as if nothing has happened

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and her death in 4 is again undermined

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Stories are often about the human condition

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and in halo 4, it was about mortality

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To have Cortana cheat death undermines that

safe hawk
orchid kettle
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Again my guy

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it doesn't matter if devs say after the fact "yeah cortana is actually A-okay"

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The game is the game

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and the story has to be viewed within its own context

safe hawk
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… what?

orchid kettle
safe hawk
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You’re making an argument of an eventual death that wasn’t confirmed to be a death

orchid kettle
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The story has character arcs and themes

orchid kettle
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Thats fine if you want to believe that

gilded mason
# safe hawk Once again, can you show me a link where it was confirmed that she died? I’ve be...

https://web.archive.org/web/20200621221402/http://haruspis.blog/2015/12/10/halo-5-a-compendium-of-lies/
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/06/12/the-halo-5-guardians-cover-story.aspx

The demo is only the first third of the level, so we’re assuming Chief awakens from a dream next, but the warning seems strangely specific. Could Cortana be alive? “I call that the ghost of Cortana,” says Halo franchise development director Frank O’Connor. “Her fate is obviously very clear at the end of Halo 4. The story is really about, ‘What effect did Cortana’s sacrifice have on the Chief?’ So it’s not about the dreamlike figure that you see. It’s more about the memories and the long-lasting impact that she’s had on him. She has left an amazing legacy in the fiction, and we couldn’t make a game where we didn’t at least acknowledge that. There is more to the Chief’s story that people are going to find in Halo 5 that deals with how he copes with loss and how he deals with his memories.”

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This is just one source.

orchid kettle
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If Halo 4 doesn't end in Cortana's death

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the theme of mortality and losin somebody you love is meaningless

gilded mason
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But it's been more than seven years since Halo 5, and hell, Halo 4, came out. It's annoying to find every source that says "Cortana died"

orchid kettle
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Also like

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how "confirmed" do you need Cortana's death to be

safe hawk
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That doesn’t say anything that she died

orchid kettle
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does Halo 4 need to end with

gilded mason
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Dude

dusk jetty
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It’s pretty obvious she did, saying she didn’t is like saying that boromir is actually alive

safe hawk
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And yet there’s a book that says otherwise…

gilded mason
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You're being disingenuous

safe hawk
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I am?

orchid kettle
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"Cortana is dead. Remember that cutscene and we kept saying she couldn't be saved the whole game? Yeah she dead."

orchid kettle
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so he could still be out there

dusk jetty
safe hawk
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So the dominion splinter comic was an elseworld comic that has no relation to the mainline games?

gilded mason
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That was made after Halo 5 came out, my man

safe hawk
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That doesn’t answer the question

dusk jetty
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Dude what even is your question

safe hawk
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Seriously?

orchid kettle
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You realize Halo is fiction, right

dusk jetty
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I can’t tell at this point

safe hawk
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…

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You guys have a good day.

orchid kettle
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something made up by an everchanging group of people who change ideas or pivot story directions

dusk jetty
orchid kettle
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It honestly doesn't matter what anything after 4 has to say on what Halo 4's story was about

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the best way to understand Halo 4

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is to play Halo 4

gilded mason
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Yeah.

dusk jetty
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the best way to understand halo 4 is to play halo 4

Truer words have never been spoken

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Trying to explain the plot of halo 4 is difficult to someone who has never played any halo

orchid kettle
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I mean, thats just how I see media in general

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You have to accept it on its own terms, in its original context

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rather than allowing outside influences to tell you what to think about it

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In the Halo franchise, I think for as much as we want to believe its all one seamless universe

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Its perhaps more accurate to see each entry as its own version of the Halo universe

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And its not really accurate to split them purely into "Bungie" and "343", as both companies have clearly shifted their vision over the years

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like even if you had a franchise purely made by one dude for twenty years-- the guy is just not the same person he was twenty years ago when he started

dusk jetty
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Any fictional universe is not seamless, everyone has different ideas that they want in a universe, and to expect every entry in a universe to be similar to one entry is disingenuous. Not everything is the same. Reach isn’t 3, and Mandolorian isn’t Clone wars, and none of them need to be.

orchid kettle
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No, but it does kinda get old when you get people like the guy earlier who refuses to believe any such retcon or shift in vision occurred between 4 and 5

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and in situations like that, it can do a big disservice to the original media, choosing to see it as just set up for its own sequel instead of recognizing its themes and ideas as valuable in and of themselves

versed helm
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Hello

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Got a question, why do people hate halo 5?

abstract yarrow
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Depends what you mean by change. If it’s about Cortana not staying dead, the moment they started talking about her going rampant you are discussing her going Skynet. There’s a ton of cut Halo 4 dialogue where they talk about her resenting her creators, how she can learn the Didacts command language to control his technology. This is all touched on loosely in the Halo 4 campaign but very briefly. I mean, was it not a little sus when the Librarian talks about the Prometheans being a way to bridge the gap between digital and organic life; whilst you have this whole Chief/Cortana thing going on.

If Halo 4 was never meant to be a one and done story then her being brought back and going Mendicant Bias was always something they could have went with. How they did that is another matter entirely.

The main change between 4 and 5 is tone. Oddly enough Halo 5 goes for the more comic book and pulpy tone of the Bungie series. That’s why Osiris are the way they are and everything is a lot more bright and cheery.

last anchor
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I distinctly remember people not liking that oddly enough

safe hawk
abstract yarrow
# versed helm Got a question, why do people hate halo 5?

To give main reasons:

  • Too little Chief. He’s only in quarter of campaign.

  • They immediately bring Cortana back undercutting her death when people thought would deal with loss.

  • They make Cortana a genocidal monster and don’t pull the “she’s rampant she’s not herself” card as they really wanted her under that bus.

  • Some people didn’t like the AI rebellion angle as, apparently, that’s not Halo. 🙄

  • Some Halo 4 story angles like Didact and Jul people expected didn’t make it into game or were abruptly cut.

  • No split screen.

  • Microtransactions in multiplayer

  • No Forge and limited game modes at launch.

  • Gameplay was very CoD esque.

versed helm
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Aside from the story, i think its pretty cool

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Better than infinite, imo

safe hawk
abstract yarrow
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Oh yeah, preaching to the choir good sir. 😄

unique rune
abstract yarrow
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Bridging the gap between organic and digital life. I wonder what that could be referring to… 👀

safe hawk
safe hawk
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I loved the come back Chief said when she tried to justify her reasoning for doing what she felt was necessary “… like Dr. Halsey did for me”

People tend to forget what good ol Catherine did

sick current
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She did it all selfishly

abstract yarrow
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Unexpected in that I assumed they would go with Rampancy or the Logic Plague as the excuse. Plus, they don’t just depict that as “oh I am just trying to set up the Culture” they are really driving home how many innocents are being killed and the sinister nature of what she’s doing. This makes some fans think the Chief should be “she’s too dangerous to be left alive.”

To make the comparison. Wanda in Doctor Strange 2 isn’t trying to conquer the Galaxy and is under the influence of the Darkhold. But even that is a tough sell for some fans where she’s killing people to get her kids back. Some fans believe the moral of the story should be punishment instead of trying to reason with the character. This applies to Halo 5.

I mean don’t get me wrong. If ONI destroyed Doisac with a nuke people would be all “well preemptive strike. ONI did nothing wrong.” But 343 should have been aware that people might not take Cortana being a monster well.

sick current
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Cortina shouldn't have been brought back at all

safe hawk
unique rune
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...Yes?

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The Halo universe is more than just Cortana, or the Master Chief, or any of its individual characters for that matter.

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There's so much you could do with the setting that you don't need to be tied down to a small handful of them

safe hawk
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So you would have the librarian make that speech about her being years of planning, just to kill her off in a nuclear explosion

unique rune
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We've had plenty of stories about characters and settings that are either completely unrelated or barely related to Cortana and the like
You could easily keep this IP going without any of them

unique rune
safe hawk
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Because cortana serves as a central part of the universe

sick current
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No, she's just a character

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An important character

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But not central

orchid kettle
sick current
safe hawk
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And make no mistake, I would love other stories from within the universe, but killing off a character as important as cortana this early in the next trilogy is not good from a storytelling point of view

orchid kettle
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whether you want to argue its only cut for time is one thing

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But I think even then-- whats in Halo 4 is in Halo 4

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and Halo 4 is Halo 4's greatest advocate

safe hawk
orchid kettle
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its true though that you can draw a parallel between prometheans being enslaved, digitized humans

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with humanity's own Smart AIs

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but even in Halo 5, they don't really call attention to this

sick current
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AIs have 7 years until rampancy, her time was up, no one could save her, what doesn't make sense

orchid kettle
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and its again up to you if that was all "masterful restraint and subtlety'

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or if it was just incompetence and the writers never really realized it themselves

sick current
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Cortana is important to the stories we have seen, but she is small and unimportant in the grand scheme of things

orchid kettle
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Hell I think we still haven't had somebody in-universe say

#

"Hey cortana, Prometheans are digitized human minds too, but you're using them en masse as disposable cannon fodder. Doesn't that make you even worse than humanity with their use of Smart AIs?"

sick current
#

The flood, mendicant bias, and the forerunners are all more central than Cortana

safe hawk
sick current
#

How

safe hawk
orchid kettle
#

Individual stories tend to resonate with people more than "lore"

unique rune
#

I’ve decided this is not an argument worth having

sick current
#

The flood has the greatest impact of all of halo

#

Importance is not based on screentime

orchid kettle
#

like even if you point out that Cortana technically only knew Chief for a few months

#

thats not something "felt" by the audience

#

to them Cortana isnt somebody they just met

sick current
#

Halo reach, ce, 2, and 3 all happen in 5 months

#

Crazy

orchid kettle
#

and its why its worth making her mortality and inevitable death the subject of an entire game

sick current
orchid kettle
#

but the subjective emotional responses to its stories and characters

sick current
#

Yeah, and that's why I love halo, but no matter how much I care about Master Chief or Cortana, they are a small part of the huge universe

safe hawk
sick current
#

So summarize it

#

Prove your point

safe hawk
#

"They were only the beginning. He would have encrypted your entire race if we had not removed the Composer from his care and imprisoned him here. Reclaimer, when I indexed mankind for repopulation, I hid seeds from the Didact. Seeds which would lead to an eventuality. Your physical evolution. Your combat skin. Even your ancilla, Cortana. You are the culmination of a thousand lifetimes of planning."

#

Please explain how they are a small part

sick current
#

The librarian wrote her plan into human gene, presumably a lot of humans have said genes, chief is just the lucky one

#

She set up the genes so humanity would develop, and certain people would have an unlockable immunity to the Composer

#

Others would, over many generations, develop smart ais and armor

safe hawk
sick current
#

I'm not wrong

#

It was the librarians plan, Cortana just stumbled into it by sheer chance, any other smart ai could have been in her place

#

Argument settled, let's move on

safe hawk
sick current
#

No, the plan was strategic, the people who it involved were random

#

the librarian didn't know that the human would be called the master chief, or anything beyond what she wrote into the genes, same for cortana

safe hawk
#

Master chief isn’t his name

sick current
#

You are actually fighting over that

safe hawk
#

That’s his rank

#

Yes

sick current
#

Look at what i said

#

"called master chief"

#

you are fighting for nothing

safe hawk
#

Okay

sick current
#

when will you accept you are wrong

safe hawk
#

Wrong about what

shell mango
#

Just got to thinking, how did humanity move on from the M4?

safe hawk
#

Between you and I, I stated my evidence

#

You have yet to substantiate anything

sick current
#

I proved that cortana and chief are randomly chosen

#

and that they aren't central to the universe, only the plots of the games, I'm done talking to you

shell mango
#

The M4 is the peak of all firearms, no way someone topped it within 500 years

safe hawk
#

What?

dusk jetty
#

Are you here to fight with people or what

safe hawk
sick current
#

I think he is incorrect

sick current
#

made*

safe hawk
sick current
#

You don't even know what you are fighting for? You have been trying to prove me wrong for nothing?

shell mango
#

Ay ay @safe hawk and @sick current ur both wrong. It's Johnson, for no other reason than I said so.

safe hawk
#

Once again… who’s fighting? You guys really need to stop saying that

#

Because if that’s the case, I’m done with this discussion.

sick current
safe hawk
#

I never attacked any of you on a personal level, I merely attacked the argument.

dense falcon
#

What if the three of you just stop altogether. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong.

#

Deal?

shell mango
#

Sure

sick current
#

someone will be right

dense falcon
#

Well, that'll be on DMs because it's gotten out of control here

unique rune
#

can we please just move on

safe hawk
#

…

shell mango
#

Anyways, back to my initial question. How did mankind top the m4

unique rune
#

Space magic and futuristic obsession with bullpups

safe hawk
#

It’s like disagreements on this server are banned here

#

Lol

sick current
#

Im done, sorry for causing trouble

dense falcon
#

Only when they go too far/turn aggressive

safe hawk
#

How exactly was it getting aggressive? There was no personal attacks?

shell mango
#

What about how Spartans can flip tanks with ease but struggle with small arms recoil?

safe hawk
#

That’s all I’m going to say. I know how mods are in this server.

shell mango
#

Totalwar1402 is still typing

#

Geez dude you writing a midterm essay or something?

abstract yarrow
# orchid kettle The thing about cut content is that its cut for a reason

You didn’t want Chief saying Requiem looked very different to the previous Halo installations? I think a lot of people would have preferred to be acknowledged instead of presented as if it’s always looked that way.

Most of the cut dialogue is in line with what we see in game. It just elaborates on details and provides additional context. We aren’t talking cut missions. There’s an hour of it for reference. With that, something like Cortana briefly taking over some turrets on the Mantles Approach or saying “I am not doing this for humanity” makes a lot more sense. So it was cut because of time and they felt the story was being conveyed well enough as it was. I’d argue they misread the room with some of what they trimmed.

shell mango
#

There we go

unique rune
shell mango
#

It's the most fun part thoooooo

unique rune
#

I don't think any of them have ever flipped an MBT in the field and I'm sure recoil is easily managed

shell mango
#

Why can I fall from atmosphere but die from a 30 foot fall

unique rune
#

Otherwise I can't imagine how Linda does the crazy things she does with an anti-materiel rifle

shell mango
#

Armor lock actually

#

Or being able to survive in the void of space for months but drown quickly in water

safe hawk
dusty ferry
#

There are 2 armor locks. The armor ability, and cutscene armor lock

#

Both are op

royal sapphire
#

What do we know about Royal Zealots?

unique rune
#

...I'm pretty sure those aren't a thing.

dusk jetty
royal sapphire
unique rune
#

Yeah I wouldn't put too much stock into the loadout names

orchid kettle
#

Then that kinda just makes 4 seem incompetent

#

As they didn't really show or even hint at the Mantle's Approach escaping at the last moment

#

I also just feel like the thing about plot twists is that the twist should be more interesting than what was subverted

#

and it seems pretty clear people were more invested in Cortana staying dead

#

Since if she came back as evil, either she just dies again and we're back at the end of Halo 4 with Chief mourning her

#

or she comes back and rejoins Chief as his faithful companion, which could make the audience feel like any emotions they felt towards Cortana slowly dying in 4 was cheapened

#

as the narrative didn't follow through on it

#

I saw someone saying that the first entry of a trilogy is too soon to kill a beloved established character, but if the Reclaimer Saga was planned as a trilogy, than the death of a beloved friend works pretty well as the inciting incident that informs the rest of the story

abstract yarrow
#

Have you seen Wandavision? Where she’s doing bad things and Vision is all trying to talk her out of it to make her realise she’s doing bad? Well, that’s the kind of dynamic they were going for. So it’s not inconsistent that we’re asked to like Cortana in Halo 4 and then she does bad things. She’s taken away from Chief to make him partly responsible for losing her and the consequences of that failure.

The purpose of that is to get you emotionally invested in what’s going on. Presumably the incentive is that the Chief gets to be a hero and the guy who saves her from the darkness. In fact I am pretty sure it’s literally put in those terms during Halo Infinite a few occasions.

orchid kettle
#

Even if Evil Cortana was planned all along, it sure did seem like after how 4 turned out, you could have chosen to go in any number of directions

#

So its fair to criticize Halo 5 for the direction it did go

#

planned or not

orchid kettle
#

If the plan is for Cortana to turn evil and die in Chief's arms anyway

#

then save the tears for that

#

Don't just repeat story beats

#

especially the same character dying multiple times

#

Because second you break that trust, the audience is gonna find it a lot harder to believe you the next time you insist another important character died

#

Also I think Wanda's portrayal in Multiverse of Madness did get a lot of criticism for perhaps a lot the same reason Halo 5 Cortana gets

abstract yarrow
#

They do that all the time in stories. No body, no death.

The purpose was probably that Chief ultimately wins and saves Cortana. Which he “kind of” has by getting the Weapon. The idea of Halo Infinite is that Cortana seeing Chief almost killed because of her actions makes her sacrifice herself and pass on the Weapon. If there isn’t a plot twist and no funny business there.

orchid kettle
#

They do. And people rightfully criticize creators for doing that.

abstract yarrow
#

Yes, it’s very odd the same fans who think Thanos was right have such strong opinions with somebody killing people to get her kids back.

Plus, Darkhold stuff.

orchid kettle
#

If the weapon does turn out to just be a new Cortana body, I think fans will again be correct in criticizing the story for more or less absolving and resurrecting a character

#

Because again, stories are generally about the human condition. We can all relate to losing a loved one, sooner or later. But part of life is having to accept they're gone.

#

But the experience of a loved one coming back after their death and everything going back to normal

#

is obviously not a universal experience

#

Like, Chief defeating a "Ghost of Cortana" is only really meaningful if the point is that ot represents Chief accepting her death and moving on once and for all

abstract yarrow
#

Well she is a new Cortana “body” that not in any doubt at all and we’re point blank told she’s a copy. For me, the doubt is two fold:

  1. Is Cortana pulling a Savathun and this is her with amnesia so she can get new start with Chief

  2. Is the Weapon absorbing Cortanas memories and as a blank slate means she’s eventually going to just become an amalgam of both. Which is a cop out, but we do see the Weapon do this in game.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, this is why a lot of fans are hoping the Weapon picked a different name for herself, and will become her own thing. Of course it sure sounds like in that scene that she's asking if its okay if she can be called Cortana

abstract yarrow
#

Yeah but he’s not moving on if he’s saddled with a clone of her. So a twist regarding that situation is a lot more reasonable.

Is that moving on or is it simply establishing that he would get her back if he could and place dramatic weight on doing that.

orchid kettle
#

Its somewhat easier to swallow if they pivot towards the Weapon merely being Cortana's "clone", but her own experiences are what shape her into the person she will become

#

but yeah she's supposed ot have Cortana's memories

#

and she's subconsciously acting like Cortana

#

Like I said, personally if I had my way, Chief just wouldn't have a spunky AI companion voiced by Jen Taylor at all

#

Both he and the player both would just have to deal with that part of Halo being gone

#

because thats more true to the human experience of loss

abstract yarrow
#

Oh no no. In the audiologs it’s explicitly said that Halsey deliberately deleted any memories from her. To avoid her being corrupted. You know, the things she immediately starts absorbing five minutes later.

Specifically we are told she has no memory of Chief. But the first of the memory shards, which the Weapon says are the last of her memories she remembers being deleted is when Cortana met Chief; that’s very sus.

orchid kettle
#

like, I remember Josh Holmes talking about how he saw Cortana's rampancy in a similar light to his own grandma's struggles with dementia, and watching a family member lose themselves

#

and I dunno, something tells me Holmes's story doesnt end with his grandma being reborn as a spunky teenager and everything being fine

#

Of course I usually don't advocate for stories trying to be as close to reality as possible

#

But I think its one thing to like, say Chief flying through space with a bomb isn't "realistic", versus striving to make sure that the story is relatable to people

#

not so much in what literally happens and whether its scientifically possible or not, but in the emotions being conveyed

abstract yarrow
#

Well they can’t have their cake and eat it. Either Chief gets her back and he deals with the fallout of her making amends. Or, you fridge Cortana entirely and he becomes the man of duty to make amends/vengeance upon the Banished.

I wouldn’t like if they tried to do both via the Weapon who isn’t Cortana but he can make amends as if was responsible for stuff Cortana did.

#

If you want a redemption arc where Chief is protecting this AI as humanities last hope, why just make that the random AI he met instead of his longtime companion who actually did the bad thing and has stuff to atone for?

orchid kettle
#

Well, Cortana coming back after "dying" kinda is having your cake and eating it too.

#

You get the tear jerking scene of their "final" goodbye

#

and you get the status quo back

abstract yarrow
#

But so is giving him the Weapon.

orchid kettle
#

I mean, I agree

#

I don't hate the weapon as her own character, but I don't really like her relation with Cortana

abstract yarrow
#

Only we don’t have that emotional attachment or the cathartic moment of fighting to save the character.

orchid kettle
#

at least, it'd be one thing if they made it clear its just another Halsey AI

#

but otherwise not Cortana

orchid kettle
#

I was pretty attached to the new trio of Infinite by the end

#

and I think I would have been even if the Weapon was a brand new AI entirely

#

and the conflict is merely Chief not trusting AIs at all or not wanting to get invested after what happened to Cortana

#

so the resolution is Chief letting down his barriers and learning to care for people again

#

I dunno, I think thats still a story

#

maybe its not as marketable because you don't have jen taylor playing the character

#

But sometimes whats the most marketable isn't always what is the best direction

#

As for "saving the character", I feel like that's the whole benefit of 4 as a narrative at all

#

How even after all he went through in 3

#

Chief just couldnt save Cortana

#

He could save the galaxy a dozen times over

#

but he couldn't save his dearest friend

#

Like I said, I think there's still a story there

safe hawk
#

It’s a step backwards in its game mechanics… for me

#

Halo 5 introduced Spartan abilities. Instead of fine tuning on that system, they decided to bring back equipment.

#

Not sure. I can only speak for myself

#

I also think the campaign is a step backwards

#

Going back to halo 5 again. Finishing the story off screen, removing characters, changing the art style, the lack diversity in environments, bringing a halo wars villain in the story instead of keeping it separate

#

Rinse and repeat, go here, wipe out the outpost and inject the weapon in system

#

We finally get the opportunity to explore the relationship between Chief and Halsey and they decided to make it another campy fest again

unique rune
#

I mean, you'll find people who hate either one or both for every Halo title

safe hawk
#

Agreed. But to bring the banished in and have no signs of the spirit of fire was weird to me

#

Especially considering what Isabel done to those guys

orchid kettle
#

I like Infinite's campaign a lot, I think its the strongest experience 343 has done so far.

#

For as much as I talk about Halo 4's story, the only part I like a lot is Cortana's mortality, otherwise the other plot threads don't really jive with me

#

Escharum is pure cheese and camp, but that's exactly what I like about him

#

The books may have largely been doom and gloom, serious affairs, and Reach may have inherited that tone

#

but I welcome the return of camp

#

Infinite also perhaps better serves as a sequel to 4 than 5, as the themes are more closely linked

#

though it does add to the idea that the Weapon is more or less a resurrected Cortana, as there is a motif of death and rebirth going on a bit here

bronze delta
#

Not having the Spirit of Fire show up yet makes sense. Bringing them back would've been too much, I think. In time, though

orchid kettle
#

Also I don't care what people say-- I like the Pilot a lot

#

Some fans get super hostile towards a character if they give the protag the slightest bit of push back

#

but I feel like every instance of him being coward is there so Chief can look even more heroic by comparison

#

Because contrasting characters is the best way to highlight their character traits

#

Like, sure, you could have the story feature all four Blue Team members

#

and maybe that would make more sense

#

but Blue Team kinda has the issue of being all the same character

#

Like, they just don't contrast like the Pilot and Weapon do

#

They wouldn't really push back on anything Chief says

#

They'd rarely ever disagree

#

It sounds harsh, but I feel like Blue Team perhaps should have stayed "dead" following the Fall of Reach, and maybe Chief really should have been the Last Spartan

#

Like, Infinite would hit a bit harder if Chief really didn't have anyone left after Cortana

#

but the Pilot and the Weapon form a new found family

#

Like I said, a big part of Infinite is our characters rising from the ashes of past mistakes and trauma

#

and I feel like that gets better conveyed if the rest of Chief's family isn't just waiting twenty minutes down the street for him to finish the campaign

safe hawk
orchid kettle
#

or wherever they happen to be

safe hawk
#

I probably won’t invest myself in another mainline halo story after what they did with infinite

last anchor
safe hawk
#

One of the main reasons I stopped playing infinite

bronze delta
#

I honestly didn't mind the lack of abilities. The re-implementation of equipment wasn't even that bad how they did it here - it was nice having unlimited use for multiple equipment, rather than just one-and-done like Halo 3, or even unlimited-but-just-one of Halo 4.

But I'm so tired viewing the Universe through only the visor of S-117. I want a return to expansion beyond. I would even be quite happy with putting him in the background as a Legendary NPC. Halo needs to continue expanding, because Steve isn't going to live forever.

safe hawk
#

7+ years and halo 5 still feels fresh and new

orchid kettle
#

I think the big way Halo's gameplay works is more so in how the main way you exert power is in the sandbox

#

Resource management after all is a pretty integral part of any shooter

#

If anything, Infinite's campaign featuring an unlimited grapple probably made the campaign level design weaker, as the overworld wasnt very accommodating for vehicle play, and a lot of the interiors were lacking verticality, perhaps because the devs realized that the grapple would invalidate any struggle to gain height

#

which led to a lot of hallways

#

after all, the grapple cant break the level if the ceiling is five feet tall

#

The four super powers being tied to the dpad also ended up meaning the repulsor got left behind

#

as well as the overshield and active camo, which would have been neat rewards for defeating a tough enemy mid-fight, or for exploration

#

There comes a point after all where you kinda don't have a use for spartan cores anymore, as you end up maxing out the abilities you care about

heady geyser
#

What are we talking about

orchid kettle
#

while finding an OS or an active camo would always be rewarding as long as there's enemies on the map to fight

bronze delta
orchid kettle
#

Id argue the grapple-pound is also more useful than Halo 5's ground pound

#

as when upgraded, the grapple will tase and stun the target

#

and its just a lot quicker

safe hawk
orchid kettle
#

stabilizer is the only thing I find myself missing as it didn't really require a new face button to be assigned to it

safe hawk
#

The momentum doesn’t stop after using Thursters

#

Spring jumping

orchid kettle
#

In infinite campaign, the big thing is grapple sliding

safe hawk
#

Not to mention that base movement in infinite just feels off to me compared to five

orchid kettle
#

Though like I said, personally I prefer simplified movement to allow the level design and sandbox to exert more power over the player

#

The grapple feels a bit like the glider in BoTW, where it feels like a waste to just be flying over so much terrain

#

There's a secret side entrance to the Tower mission thats neat

#

but i imagine most people just fly up and over the walls

bronze delta
# safe hawk Stabilizer? Fluid movement

The stabilizer... had it's application. But as someone of whom Halo 5 is still my favorite, I don't miss it all that much. I do think Halo Infinite has fluid movement, or at least movement fluid enough to where I don't feel like I'm slogging along

unique rune
#

I'm totally okay with and kinda prefer gameplay getting shaken up a fair bit between titles tbh
Makes them feel more distinct and meaningful instead of just making little tweaks from game to game

#

Narrative is a whole other thing but major gameplay reworks I'm okay with

safe hawk
#

After use

orchid kettle
#

but by overhauling the sandbox with wacky unique weapons that behave and test you in different ways

#

as well as enemies being more creative in general, especially in terms of the actions they can perform

#

Kinda like how in the Monster Hunter series, what excited me the most is new, well, monsters to fight

#

and the new ways monsters have to vaporize me

#

Like at least as far as Im concerned, I don't care that much about having new superpowers as much as having new obstacles to take on

#

Halo 3's gameplay probably didn't seem like a massive alteration of Halo 2's at the time, but I think there's a reason the Scarab encounters have made such a lasting impact on people

unborn ice
#

insane how much the didact was fumbled in halo 4

#

there's zero indication why the didact hates humans in the like. 10 lines of dialogue he has in gameplay + cutscenes

safe hawk
#

Especially when you find out what happened to cortana

#

But he definitely needed more dialogue

versed helm
#

what happens to the arbiter

bronze delta
icy yoke
#

Ancient Humanity was viewed a substantial threat to Forerunner dominance. No race/group likes power waning.

#

Forerunners are no different than the Covenant, they view themselves to a importance or reverence their existence has wide scale universal significance.

#

Humanity....post. more humble , they've been beat down so many times they know how to get back up

#

Humanity was mistaken for Forerunners invader, but in reality were fighting the flood

obtuse crow
#

Uhhh.

#

If you look at halopedia, you will see that humanity WAS invading planets and killing its inhabitants.

sonic lagoon
#

Who were the biggest manufacturers in Halo?

obtuse crow
# obtuse crow If you look at halopedia, you will see that humanity **WAS** invading planets an...

“By the time the human officials discovered what the powder had done, it was too late. Entire planets were infected, and the Flood began to aggressively expand. Humans, in desperation, began forcefully taking worlds from other species to make up for the ones they had lost. Humanity annihilated fifty defenseless systems in which the Forerunners had resettled other species. After the indigenous populations were eliminated, humanity replaced them with their own colonies to strengthen their hold over their new territories. Humanity looked to forcibly take new worlds anywhere, including those inhabited by Forerunners.[10]”

#

The forerunners had every reason to act the way they did.

robust gyro
#

Free my boy humanity he did nothing wrong

versed helm
#

What's the story behind the spartan that runs ONI?

little vapor
#

osman?

#

she couldnt wear mjolnir due to physical limitations from the augments, then admiral parangosky basically groomed her into begin cinc oni

#

the trilogy of books glasslands, the thursday war and mortal dictata delve into her adventures with her own crew and how she got the position, theyre really good

versed helm
#

I see, I see, thanks for the recommendations I will be looking into them

icy yoke
icy yoke
#

Ancient Humanity wise, from tech perspective were not as applicable to megascale engineering projects.

#

Humans built cities and big starships

#

But megastructures like halo rings, etc were probably not their favor. Or they simply didn't care to build them

crimson grove
#

Can anyone tell me what Precursor 'Star Bridge' thing used to do ?

#

I heard the flood used it during forerunners flood war...

obtuse crow
#

They were made of neural physics.

scenic basin
grizzled olive
#

🤓

stark atlas
#

Is Halo: The Flood really worth getting if I already own Halo 1 via MCC?

scenic basin
#

Try the audiobook

#

It's really good, if that's what you are wondering

#

And the extra story beats make it worth a read

stark atlas
bronze delta
#

I think Halo: The Flood was... eh. Some of the scenes for Alpha Base and Zuka are good, but it's largely just a mid-tier narration of Halo: CE that's somewhat loose with pre-established facts

late whale
#

I found the chapters that don't follow the Master Chief's story the most interesting.

Chief's chapters read too much like a walk-through sometimes.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah aside from the idea that a normal Marine made it pretty far into the Library, the Chief chapters don't have much to offer

bronze delta
#

Really the only thing I didn't like about the non-Chief sections is Silvia knowing everything about the TOP-SECRET Spartan-II Program, and being all "Oh look, it's the freak who was kidnapped as a kid and biologically augmented" out loud

orchid kettle
#

I personally also find it a bit silly that Elite active camo is so easily countered by thermal goggles

bronze delta
#

I mean... It would throw off a lot of heat

#

Right?

orchid kettle
#

but I guess as you go from a universe where supposedly humanity was only fighting grunts and jackals for thirty years

#

to one where all the Covenant big bois were there more or less day 1

#

then I guess you gotta explain how anyone ever survived more than one encounter with the covenant

orchid kettle
gilded mason
orchid kettle
#

its just to me, it makes an invisible Elite stalking you a bit less spooky if the counter is so readily available

#

like i figure it was only way later on that the VISR mode could detect them

#

perhaps because the software was just that good at discerning distortions in the air

#

while thermal goggles are something we have now

bronze delta
#

Honestly I'd rewrite that to an application of VISR. It didn't exist in 2001, but it did in 2552

orchid kettle
#

yeah, VISR existing as external goggles for normal marine use sounds fine

#

I kinda like the vibe of the Reach marine helmet best, where it feels like the helmet is just a tin can, and anything more than that comes from external attachments

dusty ferry
#

the only real story complaint i have with infinite is that we skipped the created conflict

#

if we get an ODST style sidegame, I'll not be so annoyed by this

#

i mean, arguably, warzone firefight is sort of part of the created conflict if you analyse the training they use

#

mainly, Assumed grunt mechs and warden eternals all over the place

orchid kettle
#

I feel like the most interesting part of the Created conflict is just being the average person and living in Cortana's dystopian utopia

dusty ferry
#

yeah, i would like a novel just about life on the average UEG world

#

both before the covenant war, after the covenant war, during the war, and during the created

#

like, we can name so much about the UNSC, but not the government as a whole

unborn ice
#

the created is pretty uninteresting in general

orchid kettle
#

its only really fun if you go all in on the hyper surveillance state that was already in Hunt the Truth season 1

#

and add in people being vaporized by robots if they step out of line

unborn ice
#

oh yeah the created having access to the ueg surveillance state would be comically dystopian

orchid kettle
#

but that's not really something you can experience from a Chief game

dusty ferry
#

like, with infinites gameplay, replace FOBs with like actual cities on a planet. Imagine walking around near civilians divided on if the created were an improvement to life on their world

#

stuff like that

unborn ice
#

AI surveillance state is boring because because smart AI have basically infinite processing capability

dusty ferry
#

though that would be better done with like a spartan ops style game

unborn ice
#

theyd catch every dissident in like 3 seconds

unique rune
#

I would've just liked the Created to stay because it'd have been something different for the Halo universe instead of "graahhhh humans bad"

dusty ferry
#

Heck, if we kept the whole, "Created are basically ununified in purpose" thing this season is pushing. Imagine how different occupied worlds might be

orchid kettle
dusty ferry
#

some might literally have minimal changes, while others are basically detroit (no offense to people from detroit)

orchid kettle
#

like we see in HtT

dusty ferry
#

But we skipped all this to make the banished Covenant 2

orchid kettle
#

Banished are cool tho

dusty ferry
#

sure, in the books they are different, but in game they feel identical to the covenant

dusty ferry
#

and not covenant 2 this time we don't have religion

unique rune
#

I still dunno how I feel about the Banished

unborn ice
#

nah like they could actually just read through every comm on a planet

#

that's how OP they are

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

more HW2 vehicles and enemy types being translated to the fps would be nice

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, We should have gotten the super hunters

orchid kettle
#

like in HW2, there's something similar to the berserker Brutes, but they're guided by Grunts sitting on their shoulders

#

and when the grunts die, they go berserk

#

wouldn't that be fun

dusty ferry
#

imagine that guy as an ally

#

Sign me up

orchid kettle
#

I would also like for a FPS Halo to try and replicate what we heard about Grunts in Fall of Reach

#

this idea that they just rush you en masse without a care

#

probably without weapons too

#

they just throw bodies at you until your ammo is gone

#

I also wish Brutes threw stuff at you more often, and Elites picked up more than ravagers

#

they have cool new mechanics but I don't see the enemy making use of their new tools a ton

dusty ferry
#

Honestly, i miss the prometheans. The armor breaking mechanic from 5 made them fun to actually fight. Evolving on that in the slipspace engine would have been awesome

orchid kettle
#

personally this is why I wish Elites had their original plasma rifles back, so they can use their new scavenge ability to make dual wielding combos on the fly

#

even if the player cant dual wield themselves

dusty ferry
#

I sorta like the carbine

#

kinda

#

it feels janky in multiplayer, but in campaign its great

orchid kettle
#

but imagine, an Elite running over to grab a dropped Mangler

#

and he just noob combos you

#

The problem with their ability to seek out higher tier weapons, it seems like: their Pulse Carbine is considered equal or above most other weapons in the game

#

so you'll rarely see Elites pick up anything beyond a ravager

#

but if they could dual wield, but they started with one plasma rifle

#

theyd naturally seek out a second weapon when combat begins

dusty ferry
#

I wish we had the marines in halo would get better equipment. There are like 100 mjolnir types for less than 1000 spartans, and marines are more or less in the same armor as before. Like thats a minor nitpick, but come on guys, give my boys a glowup

unique rune
#

The small weapon sandbox really doesn't help things either
The Banished are lacking in heavier or more threatening weapons like the fuel rod gun or beam rifle which kinda hinders them in the campaign

I know some Brutes will carry Skewers or SPNKrs but they're never deployed alongside Elites or whatever

orchid kettle
#

I guess in other words, it would seem that the Nightfall armor wasnt meant to be an ONI exclusive thing

dusty ferry
#

yeah, but like my basic marines need an update. It's been 5-6 years since shields became common on mjolnir

#

grunts have shields now

#

grunts

orchid kettle
#

Im pretty okay with Marines staying pretty basic

#

tho yeah I don't like Grunts with shields gameplay wise

#

I feel like the point of a grunt is that it dies in one headshot

dusty ferry
#

It just seems like 90% of the military budget goes to the spartan branch

#

which feels dumb

orchid kettle
#

but that fragility is why you can have a million on screen

dusty ferry
#

like as a game, i get it

#

we play spartans

#

they need the cool toys

#

but my bois need something new to the table, even if they now have standard old odst stuff, and the modern odsts get nightfall 2/ i swear its not SPI

#

like i'd even accept a marine heavy in that skyfire suit from megablocks

#

for context

orchid kettle
#

i mean yeah, if mechs became more common

#

that'd be pretty fun

dusty ferry
#

like give marines a niche to fill ODSTs and Spartans really can't

#

I'm just spitballing for the books i guess

#

In game they work fine

unique rune
dusty ferry
#

yeah, like in lore they literally keep siphoning military upgrades for the marines

#

It's super weird to think about like 1/1000 of your military constantly taking the best stuff

#

and that 1/1000 having it taken for the top 1/100 of their people

#

either there should be more SIVs or better equipped marines

#

in lore i mean

#

in game they work fine enough

unique rune
#

I dunno, I don't think it's that weird
Realistically you want your best gear where it can be used to best effect

#

And we only really have one example of current UNSC gear being mostly appropriated by Spartans in the ENIGMA helmet

There's plenty of canonical examples of MJOLNIR tech finding its way into Army and Marine equipment further down the line

dusty ferry
#

I guess, but your bottom line infantry is more numerous and has the most outdated stuff. Improving your spartans is not the best course of action imo. But thats a thing when i think about UNSC combat doctrine. Its hyper focused on spartans

#

but thats an artifact of how halo works

#

we play as spartans, of course they get the cool stuff

orchid kettle
#

Personally I don't mind the marines narratively as just the common man to juxtapose your Odsts or Spartans against

unique rune
#

has the most outdated stuff.
Most of it isn't really that outdated though. Nor are the marginal improvements we see going to make much of a difference for them at that level anyway

orchid kettle
#

and for that to work, it probably is best that they remain as grounded as you can be

dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

There's also like, what, 100,000+ ODSTs

#

so its not like being an alien killing badass is all that exclusive

dusty ferry
#

yeah, i wish we saw them more often, but i get why thats the case

#

Same with the SIVs

#

Halo 4 showed that growth really well

#

2 missions with SIV support was cool in that you weren't alone anymore.

#

though 5 couldn't do that with its story structure

unique rune
#

A lot of MJOLNIR tech exists to take advantage of the physiological improvements made to Spartans. With normal infantry we're still just looking at normal humans, where, yeah, shielding would help but then you're fitting (presumably) billions of people with tiny nuclear reactors

dusty ferry
#

I dunno, I'm just asking for nightfall or something

orchid kettle
#

My beef with IVs specifically is how they're also an inbetween of the common man and the almost inhuman superhuman Spartan-IIs/IIIs

#

just like the odsts

dusty ferry
#

like full cover helmets, visr stuff, Maybe the funky sniper helmets from halo wars 2

orchid kettle
#

but they edge closer towards the Spartan side of the gradient, naturally, and it can feel like they don't have a ton of stuff to really call their own

dusty ferry
#

like, they don't exactly need shields or whatever, just not vague future military BDU

#

though they do look pretty cool

orchid kettle
#

they got mjolnir like the IIs, headhunter units like the IIIs, they use drop pods like ODSTs along with being the inbetween like I mentioned

dusty ferry
#

The SIVs are in the weirdest spot. They are clearly the culmination of Halo as a franchise. They feel like this next generation slowly becoming more and more populous. They imo look like what the average marine would be 40-50 years down the road would be

#

they just also never get Ws

#

like ever

#

If i had to compare the SIVs to something, they are the ambassador class starship from startrek

#

its vaguely a transitionary element, but we don't know what they transition into

#

I don't know if that makes sense

last anchor
#

The S-IVs are the Primaris marines of Halo

dusty ferry
#

that fits better

#

given its closer in genre to halo

orchid kettle
#

A lot of the potential the IVs have as characters is largely the same as ODSTs as well

#

its just a matter of one having a bigger power level

dusty ferry
#

I'd say they have slightly more potential given they could be augmented and be in civilian life. Which gives rise to stuff like that time one of the SIIs accidently killed a man, but in a bar or other things like that

#

that power level could have interesting affects on things

orchid kettle
#

Well, Buck kinda tells us in Bad Blood that when you become a Spartan, you're not really ever expected to retiring

dusty ferry
#

I meant shore leave or something

orchid kettle
#

What I mean is, a big advantage they have over IIs is how they can have their own backstories, hope and dreams, and traumas all their own

#

but that's just true of ODSTs as well

#

and you'd figure with any military veteran, there's already an unspoken divide between yourself and the common civilian

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, thats completely true. I just feel superhumans who can relate more readily to the average person compared to supersoliders is more interesting than just an ODST. If you assume they have the exact same backstory

orchid kettle
#

To me, being normal and slaying the dragon anyway is the fun

dusty ferry
dusty ferry
orchid kettle
#

like for games, sure, the protag is a super soldier

#

but for books, I think its more fun if we have regular people who really have to use their wits to deal with the physically larger, more advanced aliens

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, that does sound cool.

#

I think i'm too used to weird drama due to what i read

#

which is usually really bad superhero webnovel stuff

orchid kettle
#

there is kinda this idea in writing that when giving a character an obstacle to overcome, you should probably throw out whats the most immediately obvious

#

and in halo, the solution tends to be

#

"shoot the alien"

#

but the Flood novel kinda shows us why you don't want to over rely on that

#

actually i think that "idea" is about mystery novels

#

whatever, i think it applies

dusty ferry
#

It does. War is a mystery of how to defeat the enemy

orchid kettle
#

There's a fight in Helljumper I really like, where when confronted by the stronger, tougher Elites

#

Romeo and Dutch realize its a better idea to shoot the scaffolding above the Elites, and drop half a ton of steel on them

#

assumingly because taking Elites head on is just always a bad idea when they can dish out more damage and soak up more damage as well

dusty ferry
#

I should actually find the Halo novels at some point

#

I never got through the kilo 5 book i had back in the day

hazy shadow
abstract timber
scenic basin
unique rune
#

I know parts of them are still around in the same sense as the Covenant being around but like, narratively they were dumped as the big enemy faction in favor of what Infinite turned out as

scenic basin
#

Yet

unique rune
#

I would've just liked for 343 to have stuck with the Created plotline and had them around longer instead of just cutting their reign off after only about 2 years, offing the main big bad mostly off-screen with some vague flashback/memory scenes and doing some weird and arguably undeserved redemption for Cortana at the same time

scenic basin
#

The Created was split, seemingly down the middle, when Cortana died. She held them to the purpose of creating an empire, but now a whole bunch of constructs are in open rebellion to that plan. Many will likely attempt to join the biologic factions, with varrying degrees of success, and many are still in it to conquer the living and digital alike.

#

Take the executor chimeras as the main story beat right now.
The Ring conflict pales in comparison to the Created Schism.

#

For goodness' sake, real cyborgs

unique rune
#

Which is great 'n all but Sloan's FIREWALL stuff is all just a simulation inside a story that's being told off to the side

scenic basin
#

NO

#

IT IS SO NOT

gilded mason
#

Search your feelings

unique rune
#

For all we know it'll mean nothing long-term, just like most of the stuff 343 writes because they're terrified of criticism

#

I'd love to explore the current state of the wider Halo universe but we're just... not doing that.

scenic basin
#

Speak for yourself

#

The Chimeras are not only the BIGGEST storyline in Halo, but they're potentially the greatest possibility for a new faction

dusk jetty
gilded mason
#

Indeed

dusk jetty
#

Actually, we’re getting a book on that soon, aren’t we?

unique rune
#

We're getting Outcasts soon, with Vale and the Arbiter.

dusk jetty
#

Yes, I may yet pick that up

unique rune
#

Infinite going "oh but the ring zooped itself somewhere that no one can find it" has retroactively become one of the most infuriating things about Infinite's campaign to me

scenic basin
#

Steel over skin, muscle over bone

#

I like mystery. Sorry if you don't.

unique rune
#

I don't dislike mystery
What I don't like is trashing solid story potential for going in circles or just straight up going nowhere

scenic basin
#

You don't think the humans at 343 are the only ones writing the story, do you?

unique rune
#

FIREWALL is potentially cool but like every Fracture so far I fully expect it to end up being a dead end once it's all said and done because as it currently exists it is nothing more than Sloan running simulations

dusk jetty
dusk jetty
scenic basin
#

the choose your own adventure story shard?

scenic basin
dusk jetty
scenic basin
dusk jetty
#

But by all means I do think the firewall story has potential. Your argument isn’t completely invalid

unique rune
#

High Auxiliary Sloan was one of Cortana’s most loyal lieutenants. With Cortana’s piece now removed from the game board, Sloan has set the FIREWALL contingency into motion—a living simulation meant to leverage intimate knowledge of Forerunner armiger technology and Mjolnir armor schematics to accelerate the exploration and development of cybernetic essence vessels designed to usher the human mind into its inevitable and digital future, immortal and untethered.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/fracture-firewall-event

scenic basin
#

Don't limit yourself to thinking a simulation isn't contingent on the real world

#

Hence Living

#

I mean you live in one right now

unique rune
#

Don't even start with that

scenic basin
#

Halo itself is a simulation

dusk jetty
#

We are not going into existential simulations

#

I will not tolerate it

unique rune
#

It doesn't make sense in current canon as something that isn't a simulation or some splinter universe given that the story shard very much implies that it is set on the mystery world where AJJAMS is located, but clearly our Spartans haven't been converted into Executors given that they're still running with the Iratus/Dinh/etc storyline

#

There's no Guardians or any other Created presence around either

scenic basin
#

We'll see when the other shards come public

#

My brain already did the imagining. The teleporter is clearly audible on the map, and it always has been.

#

And as for the executors, The core lore makes it clear that it's legit

#

I Bolieve

unique rune
#

Does it? All the lore does is add some extra context for what Executors would have been if Sloan's plans had actually been put into action

#

Just like all of the Fractures cores
Just stuff to build out the "what if" scenarios they represent

scenic basin
#

If you want to fight with the truth, fine, but it's a losing battle

#

The FIREWALL PROTOCAL has been set in place. It's every spartan's choice to accept or deny assimilation

unique rune
#

ok

dusk jetty
#

There’s always fan fiction

scenic basin
#

IT'S CANON, OK?

dusk jetty
#

Ok

scenic basin
#

The thing about the armor core separations, btw, is so that we each have multiple Spartans under our belt.
There's no more, "My Spartan has [such] and {such}" but instead, "My MK VII Spartan wears MK V Zeta and a Macrospline, while I have a Chimera too."

#

Make sense? I sure hope so.

#

Many of us are meant to be the "First Executor"

#

And this is all happening before the Created threats truly rear their ugly, disembodied heads

#

And embodied ones

#

But don't worry, all will be told

unique rune
#

The thing about the armor core separations, btw, is so that we each have multiple Spartans under our belt.
...I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

scenic basin
#

You don't get it?

unique rune
#

No, I get what you mean, what I'm saying is that I'm like 99% certain that's not how it works.

hazy shadow
#

Cores aren't separate for story, they're separate for money. Which is why eventually they will be feedbacked into everything being cross-core.

unique rune
#

The canon armor cores are just different armor from distinct platforms one Spartan could have been issued or requested.
Fractures armor cores are hypothetical "what if your Spartan was in [X] universe"

scenic basin
#

"My Spartans are Humanity's next step. Our evolution as a species"
-Dr. Catherine Halsey 2557

#

INFINITE POSSIBILITIES

#

At one time, we only had a spartan

#

Then, we were given a Sangheili to play with

#

Then an ODST

#

But recently, we were limited to one Spartan again

#

Until now, when we were given the chance to open up our horizons. Only now, in this time could we be freed

unique rune
#

...Or we're still just one Spartan with more room to wear different clothes because literally nothing has said otherwise

bronze delta
#

What in the world is s going on here?

scenic basin
#

You are free to be one guy if you want. I like my multiplicity capacity.

#

And you would too

bronze delta
scenic basin
#

If you try

bronze delta
#

In fact given the Canon setting within multiplayer, the only armor that we have that would be canonical to Our Spartan is the GEN3

scenic basin
#

Argue all you want. But the fact remains that you can be both and Executor, merged with forerunner armiger technology, and also be a UNSC Spartan 2/3/4. Or I could say "Oh no I must be one, so I have to choose between one or the others."

scenic basin
bronze delta
#

What in the world are you on about?

scenic basin
#

After all, The Domain is open

#

Genesis is next

#

🙌

#

The Reclamation has already begun

bronze delta
# scenic basin Back that up, please.

Gladly.

Okay first let's shatter the multiple Spartans angle: every body change that you make for your Spartan - size, prosthesis, etc - applies across the board. You have ONE Spartan persona.

Secondly, the cores. GEN1 Mk V[B] and MIRAGE is old tech. Susceptible to AI intrusion and thus canonically would not be used in the modern timeline. GEN3 Rakshasa is utilized by Wolves (essentially Spartan-VI Headhunter teams), of which our Spartan recruit is not. That leaves only GEN3 for canonical application.

The Fractures armors are not canonical, not even Chimera. What is canonical with FIREWALL is that Sloan is dreaming up simulations. The Chimera armor is a part of this, and literally does not exist outside this simulation.

scenic basin
#

Regarding old tech and Non-canon cores, you're correct about my Spartan not wearing them in-universe.
On the other hand, Mirage IIC is not outdated, nor is it more vulnerable than your average UNSC system.
And as for "My Spartan", John-117 has always been one of my choices. You can also be Fireteam Osiris (if alive that is) and Blue Team.
But this is all to say that you are only limited by what your mind can run the simulations of.

bronze delta
#

Are you referring to what you are playing in general, or in Infinite?

scenic basin
#

Think about the endless nature of a video game. There is a story-line, of course, but you can play endlessly from beginning to current release as much as you want.

#

And any smart ending allows for a clean transition to restart the simulated story-line

#

TL;DR Yes and yes

bronze delta
#

So, just to make sure we're on the same page, I'm talking about Infinite Multiplayer alone

scenic basin
#

Well simulated War Games are like VR paintball matches, so I'm not

#

If you must know, the entire series, aside from retconned info, is all interlinked. Nothing exists in a vacuum, aside from the Halos, The Ark, and all the other planets, ships and shield worlds.

#

Oh, Stars too. These exist in a vacuum,

bronze delta
#

Multiplayer in Infinite is, so far as we know, live fire. War Games was before the Created

#

Only MP from Halo 4 onward is canonically tied

scenic basin
#

OK Then

bronze delta
#

Let's not.

scenic basin
#

Spartans killing Spartans is not the move to make when you're so backed into a corner, it has to be simulated

bronze delta
#

Or just.... Nothing.

scenic basin
#

Hmmm

#

In-Universe, people die

#

every day

bronze delta
#

That's all MP in Halo CE to 3 is; just a game for us. In Infinite, some of it is canonically live fire training, others are just... A game.

scenic basin
#

Spartans do not respawn, so MP is Spartans in VR

bronze delta
#

From Halo 4 to 5, yes

scenic basin
#

And Multiplayer aside, the lore is clear. We fans have and always will be able to be different Spartans at different times

#

Chief among them,

#

So I rest my case. It's time to game.

bronze delta
#

One sec, I'm at work

icy yoke
#

How fast are sublight speeds in HALO.

#

Closest approximation ever I found was in comic. HALO fall reach. Arguing 80 Million kilometers is 6 hours away

#

That's 0.012c

#

2300 miles per second. Or 1.2% lightspeed

#

Still impressive

#

But slow.

bronze delta
#

That's good information for me

fair hazel
#

Where was that delta v talk in that warfleet canon fodder, or what was it

bronze delta
#

Delta V?

unique rune
#

I assume he’s referring to Δv like in mathematics/physics
Change in velocity or whatever

bronze delta
#

Ah, gotcha. Too much maths for me, I just write words good and draw pretty things

unique rune
#

Math and physics have left irreparable scars on me

bronze delta
#

I don't even use math when I'm building my armors. I just measure pieces against my body until they look right. Patterns are for the weak

bronze delta
#

So in regards to the canonized Multiplayer - and asking for my books - do we have anything in the canon for how War Games works?

scenic basin
#

I would love to know the answer to that.

#

But I was pretty absent from community while Halo 5: Guardians was fleshing that out

bronze delta
#

Guardians didn't really flesh it out, unfortunately

scenic basin
#

I could imagine that there's a capability to run simms directly through the neural interface that most High level officers and all Spartans possess

#

Like a

#

in the Shell

#

scene

bronze delta
#

That's likely what I'll end up going with. Either a virtual reality entirely, or something with blended VR and procedurally sculpted terrain

#

Of course, in my book the technology is still very new, to the point where a requisitioned M808 MBT crashes the entire match

tiny oracle
#

How old is buck by 2552

#

And who would win in a fist fight, navy seal team 6 or a normal odst team

scenic basin
#

Idk how old buck is, but he would've been ON a SEAL team if he lived in our time

#

They're basically the same, except ODSTs are Marines iirc

icy yoke
#

Delta V us energy quantity needed to perform a maneuver, landing, etc

robust gyro
icy yoke
#

SEAL team 6. Odst have better weapons Seal have smarts

#

Like not fighting on open terms. Hide , stalk, ambush. Attack from distance

icy yoke
#

Chronologically speaking

kindred wadi
#

cryo

icy yoke
#

"AGE" is a tricky subject in HALO universe.

  • Modern medicine has undoubtedly made improvements in human life extension.
  • Before accurate, long range slipspace travel, humans spent large sum time in Cryogenic suspension during transit.
  • Spartan IV had genes altered including telomeres lengthen to slow the aging process
light orbit
#

Hypothetically if Chief was to get infected by the Flood would they still initiate CORRUPTOR on him? Also is the Flood still a thing or have they been wiped out completely?

gaunt ember
#

man i love the way that the forerunners were like man humans are a bit mean and de-evolved them

orchid kettle
#

In the Infinity Briefing Packet that came with Halo 4, Thorne complains about feeling sore from war games

#

implying its very physical

bronze delta
orchid kettle
bronze delta
#

That and ODST aren't brainless...

orchid kettle
#

my mistake, it was "Red Cell", which was a 14 man team made up of 13 former Seal Team Six members

orchid kettle
bronze delta
#

Aye but as a group. Believe you me, I have seen some dumb "Specialists". I've even seen an Air Force pilot who couldn't figure out a Coke Freestyle machine

orchid kettle
#

i guess also in nylund's books, odsts are kinda just around for Chief to bully

#

or in Lockhart's case, to seem smart in comparison to

bronze delta
#

I feel like that's a lot of the issue. We've either got Plot Devices to make Master Chief look cool, or we've got "Firefly but in Halo". No wonder people don't get characters like Palmer

orchid kettle
#

Personally I opt for the latter

bronze delta
#

Don't get me wrong I don't hate Alpha Nine, and Buck is m'boy, but I've never felt they were a strong representation of what ODST were from what we had read before. They weren't "rough and tumble" enough

orchid kettle
#

Sure, but thats kinda the thing, aint it