lore-and-universe

[copper plover]

this is where all the nerds reside

[obtuse crow]

yes.

[golden pulsar]

Hi nerd, I'm nerd

[copper plover]

Hi nerd

[humble yacht]

This channel is sponsored by Nerd VPN.

[verbal pollen]

😆

[copper plover]

It truly is

[mortal solar]

NGL, mad respect for

Escharum

[cloud grail]

Remember reach this is it now:🔥
Never trust a lizard to do an ape’s job

[last anchor]

Yeah and how'd that work out for them in the end?
Hit Earth, lost two AA wraiths and a Mantis cannon, then were pushed back to the Ark, faced Half-Jaw with a three to one advantage and got ABSOLUTELY MAULED for it...then threw dozens of packs, multiple vehicles, and 2 scarabs against the UNSC force, which was something like half their size maybe, and STILL got flattened.

Id say the Sangheili's combat record speaks for itself when facing the UNSC. The replacing of the guard was a politically viable move for Truth for his plans but it doomed the Covenant as a whole.

Heck, they couldnt even take CLEVELAND.

If you cant fight in Ohio, are you really trying?

[cloud grail]

Ape together strong

[fair path]

Does it makes sense that the Chief:

-Punches a giant hole on the Forward Unto Dawn to avoid falling off at the final cutscene of Halo from Halo 3

-Stabs a Covenant Lich in the end cutscene of Shutdown from Halo 4

[gusty star]

Covenant Armor is stronger

[gusty star]

Ohio is quite possibly the strongest US state

[unique rune]

Okay but to be fair
it is Cleveland

I could understand why they wouldn't want to fight that hard for a city whose river caught on fire at least fourteen times

[last anchor]

Fifteen; Im pretty sure the Brutes set it on fire again by accident during the invasion.

Then again, it is Cleveland so maybe the Key of Ansolan wasnt worth it even in that case

[sullen rivet]

With a combat knife that could cut alien metal somehow

[dull tiger]

I would have rather have played The Rubicon Protocol story over the story we got with Master Chief.

[obtuse crow]

Nah, Ohio strong.

Plot armor, Ohio has.

[golden pulsar]

Yes it's possible, the real question is how is the knife so durable. Lol

[fair path]

If they're the same combat knives used in Reach, and considering those knives penetrate through spartan armor in assassinations, and spartans can survive falling into a planet, then I guess it makes sense

[golden pulsar]

Completely possible, if nothing can break cheifs suit, but some things can scratch it(I'm not including Locke), than yes, he could.

[fair path]

That's one strong boi

[golden pulsar]

Well now that your talking about the knifes and assassinations then that could probably break chiefs armor, but nevertheless, his suits strong and isn't easily broken

[fair path]

I suppose flipping vehicles is also possible in the cannon, including Scorpion tanks

[golden pulsar]

Ya, apparently in halo 3 you're able to flip the elephant back over and the captions for it says "press x: to flip over... wait... what?!"

Or something like that

[fair hazel]

That’s not canon

[obtuse crow]

Spartans can only lift like 3x their body weight.

[obtuse crow]

S-II.

iirc.

[fair path]

That's a lot!

[humble yacht]

isn't that without armor?

[obtuse crow]

I can’t recall the exact thing but if we base it off that even with their armor they would only be able to lift like 2 tons lol.

[gaunt oak]

To disable the ping/tag when replying, please click or tap the "on" button at the right hand side of the chat box in order to turn it off.
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[humble yacht]

i think mjolnir's force multiplier is on the order of like 10x or something

[unique rune]

Doubles lifting capability, increases reaction time 5x (according to an old strategy guide, at least).

I swear I remember seeing somewhere that force multiplication was also 5x but I have no idea if there was an actual source for that.

[hazy shadow]

The numbers fluctuated over the years because they were determined by the games and campaign writing.

[verbal pollen]

Never underestimate Ohio

[copper plover]

Considering a Spartan can survive falling from orbit, how come carter died crashing the pelican? I get he took his helmet off but I can’t help but think he’d be fine if he kept it on maybe?

Or was his armor too damaged, even then how’d it get to that point if he’s in the cockpit

[unique rune]

Because every time a Spartan has survived a fall from orbit it's been with some kind of protection or reentry assistance

[humble yacht]

only doubles lift capacity? that's not even an order of magnitude

lame

[unique rune]

Meanwhile Carter was inside of an exploding aircraft colliding with an exploding alien spider tank while already suffering from other injuries

[humble yacht]

the pelican exploded and he was at the center

it's like the difference between driving a car into a brick wall and jumping on a live grenade

[fair path]

The greatest enemy of a Spartan: the plot

[humble yacht]

the enemy of protagonists in general

[narrow sluice]

According 343 (and I think Bungie back in the day) it is suggested that the only surviving member of Noble Team is Jun. Though there are theories on Emile.

[unique rune]

...Emile was stabbed through the chest by an energy sword and his body left on a planet that would be razed by the Covenant.

How in hell would he still be alive?

[narrow sluice]

As I say these are just ridiculous theories people have come up with. I don't actually agree with them.

[unique rune]

I mean. Other than Kat I'm pretty sure I've seen theories on how every member of Noble could've survived in some form.

And I'm sure I've just not been around for the insane Kat ones.

[narrow sluice]

Yeah, I just looked it up Jun is officially the only Noble Team member to survive Reach.

[unique rune]

Pretty sure I’ve seen at least one “Johnson survived Halo 3” theory kicking around somewhere too…

[narrow sluice]

The reason I don't want them to bring back Johnson isn't because it wouldn't be possible but because Johnson made one of the most compelling noble sacrifices of the franchise and bringing him back would just detract from the impact of that scene.

[valid notch]

I love halo and refrigerators

[last anchor]

Some of the fanfics of Jorge landing in other universes are nice, at least.
My favorite is him dropping onto Remnant from RWBY. Its amusing.

[obsidian thistle]

If Emile was alive. Why wasnt he with B312 at the end.

Thats a question one must ask

[gusty star]

Bro what sacrifice did he make, he literally thought he was gonna get back to the Dawn and survive until Spark blasted his guts

It really wasn’t a compelling death tbh

Miranda made more of a sacrifice tbh

[dull epoch]

They really did kill him for no reason

[scarlet quiver]

They should have kept him alive, just for the fact that he was the soul of the dialog.
Oh god, i would have loved it if it was Chief, the weapon, and Johnson making rounds on Zeta. The interactions with Johnson and the pilot would be very intriguing...

[obtuse crow]

Johnson brought the dawn to that halo ring, Johnson gave chief the spartan laser to take down spark and then uh told chief to never let Cortana go.

[scarlet quiver]

😩

[gusty star]

Again, he thought he was gonna get back to the Dawn, he didn't expect to get lasered.

[obtuse crow]

yeah well.

You also have Johnson’s warthog.

That’s another sacrifice.

[gusty star]

I'm sure he was planning to drive that back to the dawn with Chief and the Arbiter, but ended up getting lasered

Again, it's just not a compelling death

And that's okay

But let's not act like it was a sacrifice

[fair path]

I think 343 Guilty Spark was experiencing rampancy, hence why he killed Johnson on a whim

[unique rune]

Yeah I don't think Johnson's death was a sacrifice as much as an unceremonious offing

[last anchor]

He got unlucky.

[scarlet quiver]

...then they wrote a few books on Guilty.

[terse lava]

I mean, those books worked well enough

[last anchor]

Kelly G does good work

So did Greg

[scarlet quiver]

I enjoyed them. Epic ending. I would loooove for them to go into the details of that.

[obtuse crow]

yes.

[modern bridge]

the monitors can suffer from rampancy?

[fair path]

I don't know much about forerunner AIs to be honest

[terse lava]

@modern bridge they can yes, we see it with 343 Guilty Spark in CE, 2401 Penitive Tangent in halo 2, and 000 Tragic Solitude(monitor of the ark in halo 3) in thr novel, Hunters in the Dark.

[modern bridge]

thanks for the info

[terse lava]

Welcome

[obtuse crow]

generally, they likely wouldn’t be able to but being in isolation for 100,000 years sure did a number on them.

[modern bridge]

makes sense

[obtuse crow]

For the most part they are immune to rampancy but due to again as I said isolation did a number.

[pale zenith]

Could Jun serve as a spartan again

Or nah

[gusty star]

He has the skillset for sure

I feel like they're setting up for him to get in the action at some point again

[elfin crypt]

it would be cool
but didnt he die in a spartan 5 training centre
after it well exploaded?

or am i hearing wrong?

do u think the covenant ever noticed the difference between spartan 2s and 5s?

[unique rune]

Jun may have escaped Laconia's destruction by... currently unknown means.

[elfin crypt]

god i hope so

june is a sick spartan

[gusty star]

Spartan 5s don’t exist

[elfin crypt]

sorry not 5
4s

[last anchor]

The intel drops for the Winter Update seem to hint hes still active. Someone at JAMS is talking to him

[golden pulsar]

That might be possible, the sparks went through millions even billions of years being around and with the technology that the forerunners had it could be possible. We(the humans) built fully sustainable AI only 10-20 years before they went through rampesy(cortona specifically). Humans dont have the same technological abilities and thus dont have better technology.

Sorry, I spelt rampancy wrong

[last anchor]

Human smart AI usually last about 7 to 8 years.
UNSC law neccecitates their termination at 7

[jovial haven]

A spartan getting infected by the flood seems like a nightmare

[abstract valve]

I agree

[onyx shore]

What's that animation with the spartan 1 fighting covenant on a ship with a pink ai

[fair hazel]

That’s not a spartan 1

Midnight in the heart of the midlothian

[rancid prairie]

I could be wrong but if a spartan is infected, the UNSC evacuates the area and then nukes it.

or something along those lines

[jovial haven]

@abstract valve @rancid prairie according to the manual

In the case of a spartan getting infected by the flood, WMDs or weapons of mass destruction become authorized

[rancid prairie]

Including nukes i think

[jovial haven]

The code “corrupter” is gonna be broadcasted through all channels too

[jovial haven]

Eyup

Nukes

Mac cannons

All of it

[rancid prairie]

There were two code words right? corrupter and something else

[jovial haven]

Yea there was another but i forgot

But corrupter means

[rancid prairie]

L word restrictions. Isn't Halo rated mature?

LMAO it is

[boreal bane]

Not all games are rated M and Discord doesn't follow game ratings

[rancid prairie]

the word

see

[boreal bane]

Stop bypassing the filter please

[gaunt oak]

For server moderation concerns, please message @wet locust.

[last anchor]

Corruptor is a Flood infected Spartan.
Hydra is an imminent bioweapon/hazard threat
Bandersnatch is imminant radiological threat.
Presumably there's one for imminent chemical threat (as nuclear, biological and chemical weapons are the big dangerous three) but we havent heard it yet.
Based on it being named for large creatures Ive always figured Jabberwock was chemical.

[gusty star]

OG Covenant never encountered the 4s

They were put into service after the war officially ended

[elfin crypt]

halo 4 covenant

not like og covenant

[elfin crypt]

or well the remanents of the covenant

[bright fox]

The Fall of the Covenant reminds me of how the Galactic Empire fell in Star Wars legends where various high ranking officers, or powerful politicians becoming warlords and are trying to grab as much resources from the falling Empire as possible while also fighting off others who would want it for themselves

[dim sand]

Can anyone explain the reach book that “bracks cannon” ?

I have an argument to prove

[last anchor]

None of them do.

[icy yoke]

Any mention how UNSC Artificial gravity functioned. Did they make use of graviton, force fields

[unique rune]

have fun
https://www.halopedia.org/Artificial_gravity

[scarlet hinge]

the argument is that the game breaks canon, which it does

it's since been tied together to work about as well as can reasonably be expected by 343, thanks to the Data Drops, Adjuncts and Fleet Battles - but on release it was a bit of a mess

[quartz locust]

Cannon just changed plus games better because of stuff added

[loud jay]

Why da hall are Mac canon rounds velocity so Inconsistent, it was 4% of the speed of light, how did it go up to 40% then go to 25% of the speed of light?

[scarlet hinge]

because those figures were given by multiple different writers ten years apart from one another, none of whom were consulting each other (and in all cases, are not considered trustworthy figures for any kind of serious discussion)

the first figures come from the original The Fall of Reach novel, in which the figure point-four-tenths the speed of light is given specifically for the Erod-class OWPs orbiting Reach. This weird phrasing has been subject to a lot of scrutiny over the years, with people interpreting it as anything from 0.4% to 4% to 40% the speed of light

the latter figure was included in the old 2009 edition of the Halo Encyclopedia - a source which is widely panned as being incredibly unreliable for making lots of very basic errors and copying text wholesale from fan wikis of the time

[fair path]

It's the game that breaks the canon, not the books

[scarlet hinge]

0.25c was given for specifically Infinity's MAC in the 2020 novel Shadows of Reach - a book written by Troy Denning, who also mentioned the coilgun autocannons on the Broadsword fighters to have a muzzle velocity of 0.1c. When questioned about this on twitter, Denning admitted he didn't truly grasp the sheer scale and ridiculousness of that number after its implications were laid out to him, and he thereafter said not to take the number with any real seriousness - ie, Denning picked the numbers because they sounded cool, and not because he really fully-understood what they meant

altogether, the three figures only concern the Super MAC weapons of the Erod-class OWPs and the UNSC Infinity, respectively - examples of the single-largest and most powerful weapon systems ever constructed by humanity

those aside, MACs do not and never will have a consistent muzzle velocity - they're electromagnetic weapons that can be over- and under-charged before firing, meaning that the muzzle velocity is variable depending on how much charge the capacitors have before firing (something leveraged by UNSC Iroquois at Sigma Octanus to get a faster fire rate, at the cost of lower per-shot damage)

this is on top of variable payloads - with references to ultra-light and ultra-heavy rounds that will also impact the final velocity at the end of the barrel due to sheer maths

anyone who tries to discuss MACs as having one set muzzle velocity and not as a highly variable weapon system affected by everything from the amount of capacitors and their charge time to the size of the ship in question to the type of ammunition in use (and many more) is already getting off on the wrong foot by oversimplifying an extremely complex issue

[scarlet hinge]

thankfully, future media releases have reconciled things enough to allow the two to work together, as the novel Reach is generally preferenced over the game by fans of the lore

[quartz locust]

The game was way better people should stop crying because not everything is perfect it’s kinda like how history books don’t always have every little detail

[scarlet hinge]

I can only assume here that you haven't actually read the book in question here

[dim sand]

So It doesn’t really matter then because it can just be retcon anyway?

[scarlet hinge]

which bit?

i mean, anything can be retconned at any time, but tbh 343 are pretty good at making things work together (if you hang around much in lore discussions, it's a common sentiment for people to wish they'd retcon things more often)

a steadfast refusal to retcon stuff tend to lead to some wonky lore in some of the newer books, as they're having to stick to details that were established in the original works 20 years ago that never had that foresight in mind

[dim sand]

Just in general even tho the cannon is wonky it’s implications are very insignificant?

[scarlet hinge]

depends on which implications you mean

[dim sand]

I’m trying to say I’d don’t change anything

[scarlet hinge]

halo is honestly pretty good at being mostly consistent with itself - it only gets weird in super niche areas which don't really matter to 90% of people

[dim sand]

Like it’s only something like 10 people actually think matters

[scarlet hinge]

an example I like to fall back on is the Point Blank-class prowlers/stealth cruisers, which have the stated length of 485 metres because Ghosts of Onyx once said the Point of No Return to be "the size of a destroyer"

that statement got taken literally, and so the Point Blanks are now the exact same size as a Halberd-class light destroyer

despite that statement not really making much sense with how the Vanishing Point is depicted in Silent Storm

[dim sand]

Couldn’t you say the sizes just very

[scarlet hinge]

a ship class is defined by a set of single ships that all have the same size

if a prowler was produced and was much bigger, it wouldn't be a Point Blank-class anymore

[dim sand]

Ok mabey the account was in person so it was unreliable?

[scarlet hinge]

it'd be so different that it would share almost nothing in common

[scarlet hinge]

that can certainly be used for the original context, but unfortunately the literal figure given later comes from the mostly-impartial reference books like the Encyclopedia

and that got repeated in both the 2009 and 2022 Encyclopedias, meaning that it's a pretty intentional thing on the part of the writing team

[dim sand]

Well I’m off to go re write lore lol nah I get you

[scarlet hinge]

lol

yeah

ultimately it's pretty inconsequential unless you're one of the 20 people who really care about the spaceships stuff

and it'll never affect say, the games

[dim sand]

I mean as long as it is just nìce stuff then it’s no real bother

It’s not like saying master chief wore red armour but he actually has green you know

[scarlet hinge]

yeah

i work on the wiki and on sins of the prophets, so the spaceship stuff is my main draw for halo as a whole haha

this is the kind of stuff i love to read about

[dim sand]

That’s ok then because someone was trying to say that one bit of reach lore completely ruins the game and makes reach a bad game

[scarlet hinge]

depends on what you care about

[dim sand]

When we can all agree reach was definitely a more “dramatic” game

[scarlet hinge]

if you care about consistency above all else, then the game definitely does have a lot of issues

but most of those details only really matter if you're super into the books and stuff anyway

[dim sand]

Because another thing couldn’t you easily say reach was just the account of jun and noble 6 technically

[scarlet hinge]

well strictly speaking, it's an in-universe artifact thanks to the legendary edition

the game disc itself is noted as a recreation in-universe

but that's a rabbithole I'm not going down lol

[dim sand]

See man there makeing it harder on themselves now lol

[scarlet hinge]

again though, the issues reach has aren't stuff that can be easily solved with the unreliable narrator handwave

a lot of it comes down to dates and times (IE the battle in the game being stretched to nearly three months, as opposed to the day it is in the book)

[dim sand]

Let’s all agree reach was just supposed to be a dramatic game and that’s it

[scarlet hinge]

and a lot of questionable logic over things like a 30km-long supercarrier being able to remain in stealth over the military heartlands of humanity

but at this point it's been patched about as well as i can reasonably expect them to without just declaring either source entirely noncanon, so it's whatever really - i'd rather they focus on new things in the setting that revisiting Reach again

[dim sand]

Like the jun account or the infinite lore bits

[scarlet hinge]

those aren't so bad

it's more how, we've now had the original novel, and a comic and an animated series adapting it

then the game itself

then the fleet battles and ground command tabletop games centring on it

and then both Halo 5 and infinite dedicating big chunks of their postlaunch to it

Reach, as a setting, is just very tired

I'm itching for more content covering the Harvest Campaign myself - the years between 2526 and 2534 of constant and brutal back-and-forth warfare across the surface of the glassed world are extremely compelling for me

[dim sand]

I do get you tho one thing I do ask is just one final lore account of Nobel 6 in universe not “a dev said”

[scarlet hinge]

he's dead, jim

[dim sand]

It doesn’t matter tho because it’s never mentioned

[gilded mason]

It is.

[scarlet hinge]

he's been mentioned a few times to be dead in in-universe accounts

New Blood, Outpost Discovery, the 2022 Encyclopedia are three I can recall off the top of my head

[dim sand]

In universe I want tho

[scarlet hinge]

New Blood is in-universe

[gilded mason]

Un-universe was a typo

[scarlet hinge]

oh whoops

[gilded mason]

lol

[dim sand]

O that just feel lack luster

[gilded mason]

Not really?

[dim sand]

Well yeah

[scarlet hinge]

idk how it being mentioned in a novel, the largest reference book the series has ever had and the giant E3-sized event museum thingy are lacklustre

[dim sand]

Because you love this character only to read an encyclopaedia and it’s just he dead

[scarlet hinge]

well he died in the game

[gilded mason]

But that's been known since the end of Reach

[dim sand]

Imagine if chef died off camera

Everyone would have a field day

[gilded mason]

We saw the last moment of Six's life.

[scarlet hinge]

everyone would have a field day even if he died on camera

[dim sand]

Just let me see him die

[scarlet hinge]

we got a description of the Rookie's death in fair detail and people still go on about that 7 8 years on

[dim sand]

Let me have closure

[scarlet hinge]

i'm not sure how much closure you need

it's reinforced pretty much all the time, and it's been 13 years

[gilded mason]

We didn't see Jorge's visible death, nor Carter's, either.

[dim sand]

The problem is people need closure until then people are always gonna say it’s a mystery

[fair hazel]

What is even going on.

[dim sand]

It’s always gonna be an argument

[gilded mason]

Sometimes you just gotta ignore those types of people.

[fair hazel]

Yes good idea

[dim sand]

But you can’t if it’s half a community

[gilded mason]

It really isn't

[fair hazel]

Sometimes I don’t even know what to say to these things

I’m just stumped for words

[scarlet hinge]

it's an extremely small and unfortunately, extremely vocal minority who still try and persist with this

[dim sand]

Bro the Nobel 6 joke goes beyond halo

[gilded aspen]

Let’s say he didn’t get killed by them elites, he wouldn’t live much longer given the circumstances

don’t need to see his corpse to know he’s done

[dim sand]

Don’t that’s also been argued too

Because of jun

[gilded mason]

Then nothing would ever satisfy them.

[dim sand]

Just give an account saying he’s dead then done happy

[scarlet hinge]

which one do you want?

i listed at least three above

[gilded aspen]

Did they not do exactly that in the book though?

[dim sand]

One that’s satisfying

[gilded mason]

nothing would ever satisfy them.

[fair hazel]

He had an impressive death scene in reach

[scarlet hinge]

frankly, the people who still go on about noble six could be shown an in-depth account of his death rendered in stunning detail by blur and still try and find a way to prove that it's not legit

[gilded mason]

^

[fair hazel]

Impressive because he took a lot of fire

[dim sand]

Nah at that point you’d be delosional lol

[scarlet hinge]

i feel like you have to be even now

[gilded mason]

They currently are.

[dim sand]

Not everyone reads the book

[gilded mason]

Even in the game itself, it's extremely blatant

[scarlet hinge]

This key victory, which was due to Six's uncanny skillset, is what tipped the scales, leading not only to placement on Noble, but a valiant ampaign on Reach, ending in a sacrifice that would lead to humanity's victory.

[dim sand]

To the casual people I’d still a mystery most people don’t know the lore stuff

[gilded mason]

It's hitting you over the head narratively that he died, during the ending.

[dim sand]

Nah that’s a not enough just say hes dead

[scarlet hinge]

if you play reach and come to any conclusion other than the death at the end, there's no way to look at that except with blatant ignorance of the game's themes and messaging

[gilded mason]

The Halsey eulogy even says he died, explicitly.

[dim sand]

Then that’s better

[gilded mason]

That's in the game

[scarlet hinge]

gamers

[fair hazel]

I rather talk about something that doesn’t make me face palm.

[dim sand]

The fact that this is all missed is my point tho lol

Like not everyone reads everything you know

[scarlet hinge]

this is all stuff that's said in the game

[gilded mason]

This was audio

[fair hazel]

Don’t project your lacks unto everyone else

[gilded aspen]

They don’t have to read anything tho the ending of the game makes it pretty clear

[dim sand]

I think your missing my point

[scarlet hinge]

all you need is the ability to think about media to get this from it

[fair hazel]

Your point is not good

[dim sand]

Bro the adults are talking

[scarlet hinge]

anyway i documented a previously-undocumented light destroyer class from the Cole short story this morning https://www.halopedia.org/Unnamed_UNSC_light_destroyer_class

[dim sand]

To futher my point where is every character from halo 5 ?

[fair hazel]

Don’t make condescending comments.

[fair hazel]

Nice

[dim sand]

You literally just did that

[gilded aspen]

oh brother...

[dim sand]

Same tbh

All I asked for was an account

[fair hazel]

I wish we had gotten a better look at the anlace in further media other then the halo 5 menu

In action too

[scarlet hinge]

it's a shame it took us 7 years to get its weapons complement

halo 5 really needed a visual guide

[dim sand]

I just don’t like the cut off infinite seems to have between 5 and halo wars

[fair hazel]

Now I feel like whipping up my encyclopedia and checking in some mulsane details

[scarlet hinge]

they're all on the wiki page, if that's of any help

[fair hazel]

That laser is fun

[scarlet hinge]

the ship articles were some of the first ones i updated when the book came out

I'm excited to see a Mulsanne in action some time

tbh I'm excited to get to the postwar fleet in SoTP2 - given how the Vindication battleship redesign turned out

a chance to give the Anlace and Mulsanne some proper care would be amazing

[fair hazel]

Heavy boom to whip out

I wonder how both ships main weapons compare to each other pretty much

I want to see just ships in action visually (but accurately) and even in literature more

[scarlet hinge]

one of the low-key details i like is that the Mulsanne is mentioned to fulfill the role of a Paris heavy frigate successor, while only being classed as a light frigate in of itself- it speaks a lot to the evolving standard of ship construction in the years between the two

[fair hazel]

That at the strident being like a destroyer too

[scarlet hinge]

yeah

i really wanna see a Strident firing off one of its hyperion missiles one day

[dim sand]

Tbh I’d like to see a lot of the arsenal in action

[fair hazel]

At least we get to see the Panama firing it’s weapon in multiplayer

[gilded aspen]

Is that the huge ship on the btb map on infinite?

[fair hazel]

Its not a huge ship but yes

[gilded aspen]

Oh cool

[dim sand]

Tbh I’m surprised halo hasn’t had a game based around the “ships” given how much detail they have

[scarlet hinge]

there was the amazing Fleet Battles tabletop game but that shut down because Spartan Games went bust

[dim sand]

I’d 100% play s realistic ship sim of one of the many classes

[gilded aspen]

There’s a possibility of another game like that being made tho right?

[scarlet hinge]

technically, nothing's ruling it out

practically, i doubt it

[gilded aspen]

dang

[scarlet hinge]

there were some good times between 2015-2017 with Fleet Battles and the Warfleet book alongside it

but currently the franchise as a whole is moving at a somewhat glacial pace and it seems like 343 aren't really all that interested in anything outside of the main game right now

so something niche like a space combat wargame is pretty much as far from their priorities as I can imagine anything could be - unfortunately

[gilded aspen]

yeah that sucks, maybe one day it’ll happen I guess

[scarlet hinge]

here's hoping!

ken mentioned a while back (in 2018) that he was trying to see if the FB 3D print models could be released as downloads, but that never surfaced

that said, the community is doing a wonderful job of keeping Fleet Battles alive

[gilded aspen]

So it’s worth checking out?

[scarlet hinge]

these days you have to print models yourself as the actual Spartan Games ones are very rare now, but there's a great facebook group that has everything in it

but the guys who run it do a great job with maintaining it and homebrewing new rules for ships that 343 never got around to doing themselves - to the point that this summer they're hosting a community event at 343's offices

(the same here applies to Ground Command, too)

[fair hazel]

Oh I didn’t know about one being there

[gilded aspen]

That’s dope at least it isn’t fully dead then

[fair hazel]

Imagine a model collection that has all the ships

[scarlet hinge]

yeah! it's really cool

this is the announcement post from july

A big announcement from the main pages for those of you not on Facebook:

Alright everyone, this is the big announcement you've been waiting for! For those of you who bet on the game being brought back, you lost. Without further stalling here is the big news: The Halo Tabletop community has been invited to 343 Industries to host a meet up at their studio in Seattle!

Back at Adepticon in March, I spent my entire weekend networking and chatting up lots of key people and this idea was hatched. With the help of my cavalier companion Erick Moreno we established connections with 343 employees and we began to discuss what we did and the strides we've made to keep these games alive. One conversation leads to another and next thing we know there is an invite to come play at the studio. As it turns out a surprising number of 343 employees are war gamers just like us so we will be in good company.
[05:18]
General information- This event is still in the planning stages but a few key details are available. We are slated to have this happen over a Friday-Saturday sometime in the summer 2023 ranging from June to August. We aren't sure yet as the studio needs to check its own calendar first. The plan is to host a tabletop meet up with 2 days of playing games right in the studio. We are free to socialize and play all day as we see fit as long as we stay in the designated areas. 343 employees will join us for talking and playing, a couple guys have even expressed interest in learning how to play. There are open offers for access to the Halo Museum and potentially studio tours as well. A list of people 100% committed to attending will need to be drawn up and submitted to 343 and everyone going must sign an NDA. This is non-negotiable, if you decline, you are not going. Space will be limited due to availability of tables and space at the studio as well as logistics for terrain and mats for only so many tables can be afforded. So if you want to do this line you're ducks up now because a list must be submitted in advance. A cutoff date will be enacted sometime in early 2023. More specific details will be announced as they are planned.

All in all, this is truly exciting for the community as it offers a once in a lifetime experience to play our games amongst the custodians of our favorite franchise. They will be exposed to our community and see the love and support these games still have. I firmly believe this is a golden opportunity to show 343 our community is strong, dedicated, and worth taking a look at what could be done to restart the Halo tabletop brand. I need all hands on deck to make this work. If you are a lurker or are on the fence about joining us, now is the time to become active and show up to support your community. In my opinion, this is one of the two highest mountains we can possibly summit.

[dim sand]

O my god could you imagine a whole collect of medium to large size models

[gilded aspen]

Honestly this gives me hope that we may see it get full support from 343 in future and actually make some sort of comeback

[scarlet hinge]

likewise

the issue is finding a company to make the actual game itself - Spartan Games was doing the actual game design and production on Fleet Battles

it only ended because Spartan went bankrupt (due to some unrelated business issues they had)

hopefully the Halo Wars series will also come out of cryostasis, too

[dim sand]

Yeah I heard about that stuff sucks

[gilded aspen]

Could have Halo Wars branch out to tabletop stuff too

[dim sand]

Hopefully we get a halo wars game that’s less pre-determined

[obtuse crow]

Imagine halo wars 3: we can play as forerunner constructs, play as the forerunners during both human/flood war 100,000 years ago, play as the banished and Unsc like normal then we could play as covenant remnants, URF and just all the rebel factions plus uh oni.

[last anchor]

Guess Im not going to that tabletop event.
Bloody shame.

Come to think of it I dont think I won that trip to 343 either. Then again there were a LOT of VIPs to HCS so I guess thats me out.

I'll get there. someday.

Honestly I would be okay with Catalyst Game Labs doing the ship and model print design, they've been handling BattleTech rather well.
No way Im suggesting they let GW get their hands on it. No way in hell

I think I still have my old Fall of Reach kit somewhere...should build those.

[pallid thicket]

My favorite thing about “nipple academy” is that grunts have to be explicitly taught how to eat

[last anchor]

Presumably it’s their equivalent of kindergarten

Grunts mature fast

More likely it’s a joke that got taken too far

[flat kernel]

I would love a halo tabletop that’s basically Star Wars armada but halo flavored

[summer plinth]

it suck that 343 dos not under stand halo or the lore i would like the franchise to end at halo odst

like in halo 4 rampancy use to be a AI not going crazy it an AI becoming sentences

forerunner were humans in bungie lore

but in 343 lore forerunners are aliens

[boreal bane]

Bungie's lore changed to separate Humans from Forerunners - see the Halo 3 terminals

[summer plinth]

sorry for my grammer

[summer plinth]

witch terminal

[boreal bane]

All of them

[summer plinth]

terminal say lineage confirmed

also what do reclaimer mean

[boreal bane]

https://www.halopedia.org/reclaimer

[summer plinth]

no

reclaimer mean to reclaim

[boreal bane]

Reclaimers are the species chosen to inherit the Mantle of Responsibility

[summer plinth]

https://youtu.be/_P-uOCKDTAA

[obtuse crow]

This was honestly my favorite part of the forerunners, tbh it makes them better.

Separating them allows them growth tbf.

[summer plinth]

the vid go's in deep

also the grave mind say I am a monument to all your sins

[boreal bane]

I don't fancy sitting through a 1 hour 26 minute video - is there a point from it you're trying to make or add?

[obtuse crow]

That’s the exact point, the reclaimers(humanity) are supposed to reclaim what the forerunners left behind.

[summer plinth]

and

[obtuse crow]

man.

Look at your own messages.

[summer plinth]

Child of my enemy, why have you come? I offer no forgiveness... a father's sins, passed to his son

grave mind

[obtuse crow]

Yeah?

He said that because humanity is the chosen race of the forerunners.

And in a sense.

The forerunners made modern day humans.

[obtuse crow]

Because they devolved some ancient humans that they could find which they then let them grow.

So.

Technically, they are the creators of modern day humanity.

[summer plinth]

if the forruners are aliens he wont say that

sorry for my grammer

[obtuse crow]

Do you not see any of my messages?

[summer plinth]

yes

[obtuse crow]

I just gave you a BASIC example of why he says that.

[summer plinth]

have you played halo games

or the books

before 343

halo 2

this is cut content but

halo 2

https://youtu.be/5w8JTKMDTXc

look at this vid

[summer plinth]

no

your wrong and it amazing

[obtuse crow]

I’m not wrong.

The reclaimers are quite literally humans.

Which those humans.

[summer plinth]

yes and the forruners

343 has change that

[obtuse crow]

Were once primitive humans that the forerunners had devolved from ancient humanity.

The Forerunners in a sense quite literally made modern humanity.

[summer plinth]

dont bring 343 lore to prove your Pont just

343 halo is different the bungies lore it sad

[gilded aspen]

It’s not tho

[obtuse crow]

in halo 3, 343 said what he said to John because he was suffering from rampancy.

[summer plinth]

rampancy

[obtuse crow]

Rampancy is the condition of where an ai quite literally thinks themselves to death.

[boreal bane]

If anything, 343 worked to fix a lot of the mistakes bungie left behind - like the inconsistencies between the Fall of Reach novel and the game

[summer plinth]

no

they have not

[gilded aspen]

But they have

[summer plinth]

they have no love for halo

[gilded aspen]

Ok man

[obtuse crow]

It really is the exact definition of rampancy as explained by Cortana.

[boreal bane]

They brought in members of the community who were well versed with lore to work on writing teams

[obtuse crow]

You heard of the logic plague?

[summer plinth]

in halo 4

[boreal bane]

They absolutely love and care for Halo

[summer plinth]

i dont trust you on that

[obtuse crow]

The logic plague was shown in Cortana during halo 3.💀

[gilded aspen]

If they didn’t love and care for Halo the series would be over by now

They aren’t perfect but they certainly care for the franchise

[obtuse crow]

They are trying their best to repair infinite rn.

[gilded aspen]

Exactly

[obtuse crow]

A good example of them trying to fix it; they finally brought out forge and custom games.

[summer plinth]

no they have not fix

[obtuse crow]

They have.

They’ve quite done some good things.

[gilded aspen]

They are fixing it though, Infinite is a much better game rn you can’t argue against that

[obtuse crow]

I agree to that.

I played it back when it was released and during season 1.

The game is SOOO much better.

[gilded aspen]

Right we’re getting off topic now this is meant for lore stuff

[summer plinth]

no one is play it

[obtuse crow]

Yep.

[obtuse crow]

I saw like a hundred+ of players alone yesterday on CG.

[summer plinth]

hundred is not good for this type of game

[gilded aspen]

Even then lore wise 343 also cares otherwise we wouldn’t get all the books we do

[boreal bane]

Or the updated encyclopedia

[summer plinth]

no you are buying in to there bull excrement

[boreal bane]

Ok, keep it civil and constructive please

[obtuse crow]

That’s on custom games alone.

[summer plinth]

i will

[obtuse crow]

There could be thousands on multiplayer.

[boreal bane]

And let's keep to lore discussion please

[obtuse crow]

Or even more playing through master chiefs jou-

Alright.

[summer plinth]

mcc

[gilded aspen]

#644651849647128606

[summer plinth]

yes mcc but were not talking about

it

[gilded aspen]

talkin about lore here

[obtuse crow]

Lore chat.

[summer plinth]

yes your

right

[obtuse crow]

Back trekking.

This is quite literally shown in halo 3.

and expanded upon during halo 4.

[summer plinth]

did you see the vid i posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8JTKMDTXc

[gilded aspen]

Main point from the video is?

[summer plinth]

to prove that 343 screw alot of stuff

[gilded aspen]

They also fixed a lot of stuff

[summer plinth]

no they didn't

[gilded aspen]

Reach

[summer plinth]

reach?

[gilded aspen]

They fixed a lot of the lore surrounding Reach

[pallid thicket]

Not separated completely. Humans and Forerunners are made from the same base stock

But yes, having them different the lore is better for it.

It would be harder to explain the Precursor’s/Flood’s motivations if Forerunners were ancient humans

[summer plinth]

how no they literal made the foruner evil bricks

it sad that the halo lore the screwed

[pallid thicket]

I do however think we need to see ancient human artifacts in the games

[summer plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P-uOCKDTAA&t=29s

[summer plinth]

disagre

[pallid thicket]

How so

[summer plinth]

in old lore the forruners are human

[pallid thicket]

If Bungie truly cared about Halo they wouldn’t have given it up to begin with and continue making games

[summer plinth]

the covenant war wont happened

[pallid thicket]

And even at their peak, the extended universe suffered under Bungie

[summer plinth]

heck no

[pallid thicket]

Bungie never viewed any of the books as canon

[summer plinth]

they whated to make destiny look how that trurned out

[obtuse crow]

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

Thanks for the reminder.

[pallid thicket]

Halo was just another passion project that came and went for Bungie. Just like Marathon and Myth before it

Destiny also is a bit of a shell of what it was originally planned to be

[summer plinth]

bungie lost it soul with destiny

[pallid thicket]

No

[bronze briar]

Speaking of marathon heard it gets revived bungie gonna make a new one

[pallid thicket]

They lost their soul to Activision

[summer plinth]

yes

we all now that activision it the devil

[pallid thicket]

Bungie is now more of a PlayStation IP these days

[summer plinth]

i wont say that but it a husk

[pallid thicket]

But anyway

I’m not saying 343 is perfect and they got a lot yet to prove

But they’re still getting something right even if they’re getting a lot wrong

[summer plinth]

one out a 10000 sure

[pallid thicket]

You gotta remember the only reason that company exists is to continue keeping Halo alive and growing

Instead of either dying after Reach or passed on to a worse studio

[summer plinth]

the franchised should have end at 3

[pallid thicket]

That’s what Bungie wanted

And I disagree

Would have been a terrible waste of potential for the franchise

[boreal bane]

I wouldn't have a career if halo ended back then, or at least it would be very different

[summer plinth]

also i dont what a series to go on forever

[pallid thicket]

Imagine all the lore holes left unfilled had the franchise concluded at 3

The trilogy starts at the waning years of the Human-Covenant War as it is

[summer plinth]

what holes

so

[pallid thicket]

Who The forerunners were. Covenant’s origins etc

Had Halo ended at 3, the franchise would only be remembered for its multiplayer

[quartz locust]

It kinda did

[summer plinth]

uuu

[quartz locust]

Halo 4 5 and infinite are kinda eh

[summer plinth]

su--cks yes

[quartz locust]

Halo reach should have been last game

Or make a good game

[summer plinth]

yes and no

[quartz locust]

Like one that covers the 100s of random lore crap that is barely talked about

Like why dose no one say that hunters are worms in the game that’s so cool but never mentioned

[pallid thicket]

You know darn well that Bungie would not cover that

343 might

But Bungie didn’t care enough

[quartz locust]

343 trying to cover lore makes me disappointed

It’s not good tbh lore is kinda eh and kinda good

Me too

Is that banned ?

[summer plinth]

maby

[pallid thicket]

We did get one scene in the Halo 5 campaign of lekgolo actually combining into mgalekgolo

[quartz locust]

I haven’t played halo 5 yet pc player lol

[summer plinth]

me too

[pallid thicket]

Oof

[summer plinth]

and i dont care too

[quartz locust]

I started with mcc like last year halo reach got me hooked

[pallid thicket]

Okay as bad as Halo 5’s story was, it had its gems

[summer plinth]

heck no

[quartz locust]

Halo 5s story dosent seam to bad

Sounds neat

[pallid thicket]

It’s really not tbh

[quartz locust]

I’m still confused what the frick is happining in 4 5 and infinite

[summer plinth]

i like the idea but bad excursions

[pallid thicket]

We actually had friendly elites again in Halo 5 in the form of the Swords of Sangheilios

[quartz locust]

All the stuff that happened was weird

[quartz locust]

But what dose this have to do with the main story

[summer plinth]

i going to go

is that ok

see you guy later

[pallid thicket]

We were technically put right in the middle of the Sangheili Civil War. In one or two missions at least. Those same missions we had the friendly SoS elites fighting alongside us against Jul Mdamas elites

You know…friendly and hostile elites in the same mission

[quartz locust]

That’s totally not going to get confusing what so ever

[pallid thicket]

Lol why do you think we didn’t have friendly grunts and hunters in Halo 3

However

343 tried to execute what Bungie was scared to

The difference is the SoS elites had brownish red armor

[quartz locust]

That messed with me I tried to walk up to grunts in the mission after fooodgwte and got killed and was confused

[pallid thicket]

In fact

There’s one passive mission where they’re on Sangheilios at a SoS camp and it had friendly SoS grunts and jackals

[quartz locust]

I feal like halo 7 will have nothing to do with halo infinite

[pallid thicket]

Speaking of Sangheilios. That was one small step in the right direction of showing more lore stuff in games that 343 made. Even if the rest of the game was a misfire

[quartz locust]

Bad opinion I have they should just stop worrying about existenced lore and focus on slowly introducing new stuff

[pallid thicket]

Like they did with the Endless?

[quartz locust]

Or make like a halo past game or something that exsplanes it all so I’m not confused af

[jovial wren]

hi

[pallid thicket]

Well I always wanted more games taking place earlier in the Human Covenant war like Halo Wars did

[quartz locust]

I want one that exsplanes all the lore so we don’t have to go read 100
Books to understand most of the plot

Like mabey one that exsplanes why everyone hates humans

[pallid thicket]

343 really shouldn’t have “killed off” the Didact in a graphic novel

Should have happened in game

In fact that whole story leading up to it could have made a decent campaign

Especially the scenes in Installation 03’s control room

I’m guessing we won’t see Bornstellar in any game

[elfin crypt]

Tht could hav been cool

I think people would hav liked halo 4 a lot more if 343 kept the og halo art style

Or did something like the halo infinite style

[pallid thicket]

At least there’s lore explanations for the change in species designs

[elfin crypt]

I need to refresh on tht bit of lore

[pallid thicket]

Thel’s Arbiter armor in the new design actually looks sick

[elfin crypt]

Is the guy from halo wars?

Ah sorry my bad
Thts the main man

The sith version of arbitor looks sick

[pallid thicket]

Ripa Moramee is the Halo Wars arbiter

And the previous arbiter to Thel

The greatest disappointment of Halo 5’s ending though

Was that we didn’t get the bro moment of Chief reuniting with Arbiter

Instead we got that in the books

Also isnt the existence of Jul Mdama’s Covenant technically owed to ONI?

[scarlet hinge]

generally, yes - insofar that Jul 'Mdama, specifically, was motivated due to his treatment at the hands of ONI

more broadly, no (or at least, not fully). Jul's power-base didn't come from nowhere. After the war ended, there was a huge population of military-aged, armed and trained men with a hell of a lot of anger, and a lot of religious crisis. As you see in Awakening the Nightmare, not everyone got the full story of what happened to High Charity or to cause the outbreak of the Schism (or at least, not everyone believed it), so once the war was done there were a lot of people who were still wanting (or even, needing) to continue their beliefs in the Forerunners, and the path of divinity

more broadly, that's how religion works - when crisis' come up, schisms happen and people shift their beliefs to incorporate the new, and adjusting the old to fit. It's not as simple as "Halos bad, religion false" and all of a sudden, an empire of trillions now loses its faith

that's a huge cultural shock that will take centuries to recover from (I suppose a very broadly similar example is how pretty much all of European history in the past 1,500 years has been the fallout of the collapse of the Roman Empire, and the attempts to reclaim its legacy)

so while Jul 'Mdama specifically was motivated by his treatment at the hand of ONI, in all likelihood if it wasn't him, someone else would have stepped in to fill that vaccuum and take advantage of a huge population of disaffected ex-soldiers who'd just suffered through thirty years of brutal warfare for essentially no gain, nor even a victory to be proud of

even before the war ended, you had that emerging with Xytan and his cabal at Joyous Exultation, and in the years since we know there are plenty of ex-Covenant warlords hanging around who still hold a grudge against the power(s) responsible for the collapse of their old empire - Luro 'Taralumee, Meduu the Fierce, Merg 'Vol, Sali 'Nyon, etc

if it wasn't Jul, it would have been someone

[obtuse crow]

Bornstellar? You mean the ur-didact?

[pallid thicket]

Bornstellar is the Iso-Didact. He was the young manipular forerunner who took the Ur-Didact’s imprint

Shadow of Sundered Star is the Ur-Didact

Forerunners have weird names

[teal bolt]

Hello everyone

I am Ultima

[obtuse crow]

Yeah, I know who they are I’m just confused on if you are mistaking the Ur-didact for Iso.

[pallid thicket]

I’m not

I almost finished the Forerunner saga so this thought has come to mind

[obtuse crow]

Ah.

Alright.

[last anchor]

Hopefully we'll get a better "end" for the Didact in Epitaph.

[visual orbit]

Him and the warden bouta have the stare off of the eon

[brazen copper]

Does anyone know what the FFG in FFG-201 “Forward Unto Dawn” means?

[fair path]

Something Frigate something

[stray gate]

FF means frigate and g just means it has guided missiles

there's not really an actual acronym for it

[brazen copper]

Oh

Thank you

[stray gate]

np

[unique rune]

FFG is just the hull code the UNSC uses for frigates

Under US Navy standards it would indicate a guided missile frigate, though there’s a lot of stuff that may not necessarily line up between the UNSC Navy and US Navy’s usage despite their existing similarities

There’s a lot of weird quirks in the known bits of the UNSC’s hull classification system that don’t seem to have any analogues in the US Navy system.
Stuff like the Infinity-class having its own INF code instead of being assigned CV or some variation thereof.

[last anchor]

She is a unique ship

[obtuse crow]

Infinity is quite literally the coolest Unsc ship.

Besides uh.

What it’s name.

Stealth cruiser thing.

[unique rune]

Well… sorta. What with there being a second one planned ‘n all. Just seems kinda weird because it’d be like if the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) was instead called ENT-1 or something strange like that.

[fleet mulch]

This seems like the best place to ask this

What's the deal with the mantis cause they just seemed to appear in 4&5 then just dissappear in infinite,

so I'm basically asking what was there purpose and do they technically still exist?

[unique rune]

The Mantis still exists. Just because something’s not seen in a game doesn’t mean it’s suddenly retired from service or whatever.

[fleet mulch]

I get that but there's like no reference to it and it seems strange

[unique rune]

I mean. Not the first time it’s happened.
Weapons, vehicles, and other tech get cycled out between games with no mention all the time.

Was happening as early as Halo 2 with the odd disappearance of the assault rifle

[fleet mulch]

Fair enough

[unique rune]

Usually it can just be assumed that it was still around in some canonical capacity, just absent due to game design limitations and whatnot.

[gusty star]

This should be pinned because I cannot believe how many times something like this has been asked

[last anchor]

Gameplay presence does not equal canon presence
Let us not forget that the boat crew in Rubicon Protocol finds an MA5K

[brazen copper]

And the M392 DMR

Not the bandit

[humble yacht]

UNSC Point of No Return

[radiant copper]

Is the MA5K a assault rifle?

[last anchor]

Its a carbine technically.

Its never been seen in the games and certainly isnt in Infinites campaign.
Relatedly, one of the Spartans uses a DMR which isnt in the game and theres an energy bayonet...also not in the game

[icy yoke]

@brazen copper CourseUS Navy designates ships with registered letter FF is Frigate, why not one F I have no idea. Following letter denote it's technology. FFG means Frigate, Guided missile. for UNSC MAC guns are predominant weapon.

[fleet mulch]

In universe why do the newer armour lack the built in boost pack that the armour from 4/5 had, is it just not compatible with the sets?

[gilded aspen]

Maybe it’s just a gameplay thing, thrusters are in the game after all so I can’t see it being a compatibility issue

[humble yacht]

it's just a gameplay thing

thrusters had never been seen/used on mjolnir in the originals but then suddenly in 4 it was built into the suit in cutscenes. but then in mp you could only use it with equipment. it just comes down to what abilities fit into gameplay for a particular game

[brazen copper]

Do y’all think in the cut end credit credits scene of Halo Infinite that what they saw instead of the Spirit of fire was actually the finished UNSC Eternity?

[gusty star]

You're acting like it's confirmed that they saw the Spirit of Fire

[unique rune]

I hope it’s the Swords of Sanghelios if that ends up ever being properly canonized

I’d be very disappointed if it were the Spirit of Fire. That’d be stupid.

[gilded mason]

Yeah

[brazen copper]

Well it could be any ship

I’m just using that as a example

[last anchor]

Why would it be the Spirit, they're on the Ark. Zeta Halos who knows where.

[brazen copper]

Well how did atriox get there then

[gilded mason]

Shadows of Reach details this

[brazen copper]

Oh, I haven’t read that yet

[gilded mason]

There was a ||one-way(?) portal from the Ark to Reach that Banished forces on the Reach side were able to activate, letting through a single Lich with Atriox and some of his forces||

[brazen copper]

Oh

[humble yacht]

nah it's two way since Castor used it to get from Reach to the Ark

[verbal pollen]

I guess I just assumed he was still on zeta Halo XD. It definitely looked kinda forerunner

[abstract wren]

It is but i cannot be operated again because the cristal couldn't make more then one trip

[gaunt oak]

Do not tag Admins or Moderators unless immediate action is needed. If you see anything that does not abide by these rules and guidelines, please tag a Moderator to bring it to their attention.

[dull tiger]

^Lol, what?

[ember pasture]

Grunts were forced to go to war by the covenant. Grunts also have to breathe methane or else they will paralyze if they can't breathe it in. Later on some teenage kig-yar refilled the grunt methane tanks with oxygen and a lot of grunts paralyzed. That sent off a while grunt rebellion but then they were defeated by the arbiter and his elites.

[unique rune]

refilled the grunt methane tanks with oxygen
That's... not what happened.

Some Kig-Yar planned to poison some narcotics that Unggoy liked to use in order to sterilize them. Covenant higher ups didn't do anything about said plan which prompted the Unggoy to rebel

Nothing about... poisoning their methane with oxygen.

[drowsy mesa]

GEN3 was more focused on defense rather than making Spartans "hyperlethal vectors", especially with their resources waning thanks to the Created's iron fist

[gilded aspen]

I still can’t help but feel a bit dissatisfied with the created

[ember pasture]

Grunts are sad

[gilded aspen]

I would be too if I was a grunt

[ember pasture]

Yeah

[humble yacht]

iirc GEN3 combined the best aspects of GEN2 and GEN1, provided the increased defensive properties of the original mjolnir designs with modern enhancements that GEN2 introduced

i don't think GEN3 makes spartans less lethal

[unique rune]

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what the '22 encyclopedia says.

GEN3 represents the pinnacle of human military achievement, integrating data gleaned from second-generation upgrades while also revisiting many of the design characteristics and defensive materials originally offered by GEN1.
It's like GEN1 ideas manufactured using GEN2 tech.

[ember pasture]

I feel like 343 industries needs to give halo 4 and 5 aliens the more modernized and original look

[unique rune]

nah

Trying to scrub out even more of their own work into irrelevance to appeal to nostalgia is the last thing 343 should really be doing

[ember pasture]

But I like the og look

[icy yoke]

@fleet mulch perhaps expediency of production was important than overwhelming performance

[unique rune]

I mean... good for you? It exists in other games so it's not like it's ever gone away

[versed helm]

i will be agreeing with you sir

[versed helm]

i like being a grunt. i have so many pet rocks.

[limpid acorn]

What became of Mombasa after the events of Halo 3?

Did they start rebuilding, or was it just left alone?

[drowsy mesa]

Being rebuilt
Sone maps in Halo Infinite (Street, Bazaar) take place in an still-in construction Mombasa (including her space elevator)

[pallid thicket]

I’ve finally gotten to it

Halo: Silentium, ||String 36||

The question Bornstellar posed to Chakas in his 343 Guilty Spark form

The question Spark would answer to Chief in Halo CE

If it were his choice, would he fire the rings

[dull geode]

I ship 343 guilty spark and Cortana together

❤️

[pallid thicket]

“Last time you asked me. Where it my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed. We must activate the rings”

Technically Chakas shouldn’t remember that conversation after his memory was purged and fully becoming Spark

I guess that’s why it only came up in a moment of rampancy induced confusion

[eager ibex]

I heard somewhere spartans have mini nukes equipped to blow up if they get captured or something???? Is that true?

[eager ibex]

Cease

[dull geode]

Yes look at the prototype suit from halo legends

[scarlet hinge]

not quite

the armour is powered by a fusion reactor, which can go critical if set to detonate. It's not carrying a nuclear weapon around.

This also has to be manually set to happen - it doesn't simply just happen when the armour is hit, as that'd cause much more collateral damage to friendly forces than you'd want

this happened to Grace-093 in First Strike, resulting in her death wiping out a few Covenant troops in the vicinity

https://www.halopedia.org/Grace-093

[scarlet hinge]

the Mark I ADS in that short has nothing to do with the Spartan program - it's much bigger than any MJOLNIR suit

[eager ibex]

Oh ok

[last anchor]

Similarly, Fred has blown up at least one of his suits to asset deny it, once hes out, as we see in Last Light.
MLJONIR (and its pilot) are simply too valuable to the UNSC to leave lying around on a battlefield where the enemy could find them and learn all sorts of things.

[last anchor]

Thats the HRRUNTING/YGGDRISIL MK I, not a MJLONIR variant.
Its TANGENTALLY related to MJLONIR in the same way all UNSC power armor and exoskeleton projects are, but it wasnt directly part of it.
Its techically part of the Mantis and Cyclops family.

Also;
Yes, I dare refuse your batchall

[obtuse crow]

Uhm, to an extent yes. Their suit can be detonated which it go boom boom.

[fair hazel]

and the successor seen non canoically in halo wars 2

We really more of those cool projects

[last anchor]

I agree wholeheartedly

I demand more Mantis

[pale zenith]

Be perf for a WarzoneFF 2.0

[golden pulsar]

Didn't we get them only in halo 4

[unique rune]

I mean.
They were in 5 too.

And Halo Wars 2.

[drowsy mesa]

His memory was not purged, but compartmentalized

[drowsy mesa]

You mean the one used by Johnson in HW2? The suit is canon, but Johnson alive in the game is not

[golden pulsar]

Ok, but 5 sucked and halo 2 isn't 1st person

[fair hazel]

Halo 5 is very great and amazing

[unique rune]

5 is fine and either way that doesn't make the Mantis' appearance in both games irrelevant

[fair hazel]

Which is why I said non canonically seen in halo wars 2

[golden pulsar]

Ok

[golden pulsar]

I guess not sucked but it wasn't the best game

Not completely lore accurate

[unique rune]

What

[versed helm]

Why do elites always speak sangheili I can't understand. All I here is wart wart wart

[last anchor]

I mean…

[terse sage]

So I read the Rubicon Protocol, and I wondered. Who is the person that Browning's cell is next to?

[last anchor]

Griffin

[terse sage]

Makes sense

[tiny oracle]

What would happen if cheif became a flood

[gilded mason]

Then he'd be a flood.

[obtuse crow]

He almost did actually lol but uh depending on where he is well Uhm.. WMD would be authorized to kill infected chief.

[elfin crypt]

Don't they hav a protocol to nuke any Spartan tht becomes infected?

[tropic forge]

Yes and No. The protocol (CORRUPTER) calls for Nuclear and MAC strikes only if the existing safeguards fail after a Spartan is infected by the Flood.

[elfin crypt]

Is there any case of a Spartan getting infected?

[scarlet hinge]

None that we know of, currently

barring simulated drills in war games

[olive grove]

Was reading The Rubicon Protocol
Saw this thing about a jackal pilot
I didn't know they could be pilots
I thought they were never taught to drive because they stole things

[gilded aspen]

Well depending on what they’d steal wouldn’t it require them to know how to drive things?

[scarlet hinge]

they had an entire spacefaring civilisation prior to contact with the Covenant

and some of the first Jackal characters we were introduced to were privateers hired by the Ministry of Resolution

[last anchor]

First human contact with the Covenant was those Jackals boarding and taking human shipping vessels

[verbal pollen]

They got hiJacked

[silk sundial]

I wonder if the halo games are canon in the halo universe

[last anchor]

No

[verbal pollen]

Hmmm, I wonder

Oh, you mean like can master chief sit down and play Halo infinite ©2021? Yeah, probably not

[versed helm]

More like "hijackeld" get it?

[meager path]

😠

The door 👉

@versed helm

[versed helm]

@meager path why

[drowsy mesa]

Reach is canon, as an ONI disc file of Noble's actions during the Fall of Reach

[meager path]

dad jokes are forbidden

Now you are banished

[versed helm]

💀

Is atriox still alive?

[gilded mason]

Yes.

[versed helm]

How

[gilded mason]

We don't know.

[versed helm]

ok. He better be in the new spin off of halo infinite game

[last anchor]

An expansion is more likely

[meager path]

Hopefully he will be the big baddie of this halo era

[gilded mason]

He already got clowned on by a single outdated ship, so I'm not sure how threatening he can still be.

[meager path]

That is my one criticism of halo wars 2, he got defeated too much

and not enough victories to compensate

They are going to have to build him up again I feel

[last anchor]

He himself didn’t, technically. His subordinates did

But the Spirit did hit far about her weight and there’s no real reason why

[meager path]

It would make more sense if the spirit was doing hit and run attacks on the Banished

Kinda like how the Banished fought the Covenant

but they would go into all out battles and win, i'm sitting here like 🤨

[last anchor]

More a result of the requirements of the game I figure. RTS has a harder time telling a truly accurate to scale story

StarCraft shows this a few times that I remember

The Spirit and the Endurinf Conviction I’ll probably never figure out

[silk sundial]

Isn't that revealed only in the legendary ending for infinite? He might not be as heroic difficulty is canon. I could be mistaken.

[gilded mason]

Nah, he's shown in all endings, I think. There's only actual dialogue playing in Legendary

[unique rune]

Correct

The cutscene with Atriox activating all of the Endless cylixes plays on every difficulty, the Legendary version just has additional dialogue from like 100,000 years in the past playing over top

heroic difficulty is canon
Also that's... not quite how it works.

Heroic is considered the "intended" way to play Halo when it comes to gameplay and balancing. No particular difficulty is actually accurate enough to be considered canon.

Canon-accurate Halo gameplay would be incredibly tedious

[gilded mason]

Could be a good instadeath mode

both you and enemies can die very easily

[last anchor]

Imma pass, thanks.

I had my fill of near instadeath playing Veteran in COD

[trim eagle]

@fleet axle wanna explain why you think the books aren’t canon?

[blazing shoal]

i heard that sangheilis smile by pressing their jaws togheter tightly

is it true?

[versed helm]

When will Jerome show up? Is he going to be in the spin off of halo infinite? 343 industries are already working on it. Do you think Jerome will be the main character because wherever the banished goes, he goes.

[unique rune]

please dear god no

[gilded mason]

^

[versed helm]

But I like jerome

[unique rune]

I mean that's fine but like.
He doesn't need to show up in everything.

[gilded mason]

because wherever the banished goes, he goes.
He is still on his very first Banished Encounter Location.

[unique rune]

...And that too.

[versed helm]

He doesn't. He only been in some games and books

[unique rune]

Jerome's not some Super Banished Hunter or whatever, he and the rest of the Spirit of Fire conveniently happened upon the Banished when they were at the Ark

[versed helm]

Yeah but at one of the end cutscenes in halo infinite echo 216 gets a friendly on a map. It could be Jerome the arbiter or someone else.

[gilded mason]

"Or someone else" being the key

[versed helm]

The key?

[unique rune]

Said cutscene isn't even in the final version of Infinite so it's arguably currently not canon

[gilded mason]

As in, the most probable option

And that

[versed helm]

yeah

[unique rune]

Last I checked the Spirit of Fire was still effectively stranded at the Ark while Installation 07 is also floating off in who knows where.
So it would be... one hell of a plot contrivance to have the Fire suddenly appear at Installation 07.

[versed helm]

Yeah I do agree with that

if it were to show up that late there should have been more about in the past games

[zealous bison]

Imagine if Installation 07 is actually going to the Ark....

...which wouldn't be that hard to believe since the Ark can also repair the rings.

[versed helm]

Oh yeah

[unique rune]

Quite frankly that sounds like a terrible idea
If a ring is damaged enough to require extensive repairs then there's a good chance it's compromised by something you wouldn't want at the Ark

And so having it set itself on a course there...

[versed helm]

Oh. Hey did you guys know that it's still possible to have a flood outbreak?

[gilded mason]

Yes.

[versed helm]

There are still flood in all of the rings but they are all dormant in study rooms. If someone decides to release one there goes another ring. And I wonder if they could still be on artificial forerunner planets

[unique rune]

they are contained and I would very much like them to stay that way

[versed helm]

I want the flood to show up again. It turns into a whole horror game once they show up. And imagine how scary looking they would look like in halo infinite

[unique rune]

ugh

[heady geyser]

Yes each ring have flood samples

[versed helm]

We need a flood outbreak

[unique rune]

we really don't

[heady geyser]

Nah 343 wants the Xalanyn to be the main focus

Xalanyn is a bigger threat than the flood

Since Xalanyn can survive the halo array

[heady geyser]

We don’t need another flood outbreak

[drowsy mesa]

The one who teleported Zeta Halo wasn't the ring itself, but Cortana

and the damage was not extensive enough to make it necessary to transport it to the Ark

[versed helm]

Actually yeah that does alter my mind immediately. We need to know more about them since we have only seen one. There is abviously more of them out there. Maybe they could make a flood multiplayer mode

[heady geyser]

That’s why we’re most likely getting a campaign dlc expanding the Xalanyn

[versed helm]

oh cool. I'll be buying that immediately. But why make dlc's? I think just getting the full campaign is better

[heady geyser]

Plus the monitor of the ring would send out sentinel retrievers

[zealous bison]

How damaged would a ring have to be for it to be taken to the Ark?

[zealous bison]

Also Cortana could have sent it to the Ark because she probably knew the Spirit of Fire is there and they would help Chief

[low current]

So ive been playing this game wrong for 10 years

[unique rune]

I feel like there are much better places to send John and the rest of the Infinity's survivors than to an incredibly remote (remember: extragalactic) location out of practical reach by conventional means with abandoned research outposts (that she would not have known about) and a near century-old refitted colonization ship (that she very likely would not have known about).

Like. The Spirit of Fire isn't really in any position to be helping anyone to begin with considered they're stranded at the Ark with zero knowledge of how they got there in the first place

[drowsy mesa]

She doesn't know; she would already send forces to the Ark by the time Halo: Shadows of Reach took place

[low current]

How do you think the story would play out if Noble 6 escaped reach

[drowsy mesa]

Community only wants the SOF in Infinite because they want a crossover between Chief and Jerome, nothing else

[gilded mason]

Yup. I still don't understand some people's massive infatuation with Jerome. Is it really because they see "Spartan II that has an AI friend" and just go "he just like chief fr, now I'll never have to let him go"?

[thorny pivot]

6 would questioning why were allies with the Sangheili.

[zealous bison]

I thought because she had control over everything Forerunner she would know what is happening on the Ark

[low current]

Oh yeah i forgot they had a truce with the cov

[unique rune]

"wow the nothing burger Spartan is just like the somewhat less nothing burger Spartan!!!"

[thorny pivot]

Well, not the Covenant. More of the Swords of Sanghelios.

[gilded mason]

wowie-zowie

[low current]

yeah

[thorny pivot]

The Covenant from H4 is more a PMC if you think about it.

[drowsy mesa]

Well, she didn't
Even the Ark itself shut down the Portal on Earth and block every way to Cortana to find its location

[thorny pivot]

God, I hope we see the Flood sometime in Infinite.

[drowsy mesa]

Why?

[thorny pivot]

We haven't had them in a bit.

[zealous bison]

One lore thing that I don’t understand is why don’t Ai just make backups of themselves?

[drowsy mesa]

Besides of the "we haven't seen them" excuse/justification?

[thorny pivot]

Plus, I enjoy seeing what the remnents of the Primordial are up to from time to time.

[drowsy mesa]

Cortana did, and look what happened

it does a lot of stress and damage to an Smart AI not designed to do that

[zealous bison]

Hmm interesting

[thorny pivot]

Even though we did a soft firing of the Installation on the Ark, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Flood elsewhere made it past it's sequence.

[drowsy mesa]

Considering how Tragic Solitude took that problem, and we haven't heard of issues with the Flood on the Ark besides the Voridus' Folly, I believe the Flood on the Ark are fully contained on High Charity

[zealous bison]

The flood aren’t going to return because none of the current factions are dumb enough to free it

[unique rune]

I sure hope they don't return because it'd be narratively stupid and I wish we could just move on from original trilogy storytelling

[drowsy mesa]

Exactly

[thorny pivot]

Well, we do have an easter egg of the Flood in containment before the first boss fight in Infinite.

[zealous bison]

Halo wars 2 was probably the last time the flood happen

[zealous bison]

Easter eggs don’t mean it will happen

[thorny pivot]

I know. If only though.

Man, imagine seeing a Keymind.

[low current]

Anyone have a cronilogical order to play halo?

[unique rune]

How I sorely wish 343 could've committed to whatever original plans they had for the Reclaimer Trilogy/Saga/whatever

[zealous bison]

Plus 343 doesn’t want to have ratings over teen with their games

[thorny pivot]

CE, 2, ODST, 3, and 4.

[zealous bison]

Before Ce reach

[low current]

alright thanks, ion have any of the war titels

[unique rune]

Don't do this to yourself and just play them in release order or whatever, trying to fit everything chronologically gets weird unless you want to alternate between ODST and 2 for like 15 missions

[thorny pivot]

Too late for me on that one, sanity is gone.

Helioskrill was not worth it.

[low current]

But thats the point i dont wanna play it just thru relase date, i wanna play it to get the full lore in correct order

[unique rune]

I mean you can sure try but I think it's a stupid idea given that some stuff literally happens concurrently

You're just needlessly breaking up each game's narrative for something not practical unless you've got three systems running at the same time so you can have H2 Chief, H2 Arbiter, and H3 ODST in chronologically correct order

don't even get me started on the fact that ODST also has that weird framing as a combination of flashbacks and everything

[zealous bison]

Timeline wise it’s Halo wars 1, then Reach, Then CE, then ODST and 2 happen at the same time, then 3 then 4 then 5 then HW2, and lastly Infinite

[unique rune]

And then there's Spartan Assault, Spartan Strike, and Fireteam Raven if you really want to start getting picky about it

[zealous bison]

I have never played them so I don’t know how they fit in

[unique rune]

Have fun with the first two since they're framed as training sims used by Spartan-IVs in the mid-late 2550s even though they depict events prior to their proper setting

[low current]

alright ill just play with release date then

[thorny pivot]

Spartan Srike could be before 4 maybe.

Between 3 and 4.

I'm curious on what happened to Arby. I've been told, rumor-wise, that he's been killed by Chak 'Lok.

[zealous bison]

Imagine also trying to read the books and play the games in timeline order

[zealous bison]

They better not have

[low current]

I just assumed they werent officially part of the story because it was a book 💀

[drowsy mesa]

Starts concurrent with Halo 2, but then happens shortly after Halo 4 (but before Escalation's The Next 72 Hours arc)

[thorny pivot]

It was with the IWHBYD Skull when fighting the big dino.

[zealous bison]

Most of the books are cannon

[thorny pivot]

Then again, it is a rumor.

[drowsy mesa]

things said with the IWHBYD skull are not canon

[gilded mason]

There's literally no evidence for that at all. lmao

[thorny pivot]

That one feels specific though.

[zealous bison]

Pretty sure none of the skulls are canon

[unique rune]

...How would Chak 'Lok have even killed the Arbiter? Where do people get this stuff?

[thorny pivot]

It was either by comments in the Halo posts sometime last year or a PM. Idk.

[zealous bison]

In infinite there is no signs that the swords were even there

[thorny pivot]

That one's been plaguing my mind for a while.

[zealous bison]

Marines talk about them and that’s it

[gilded mason]

What was the line, anyway

[thorny pivot]

I haven't played the story in a hot minute to know anything about the chatter.

[low current]

I always thought the IWHBYD meant "I Would Help, But Your Dead" 💀

[thorny pivot]

I Would Have Been Your Daddy.

[zealous bison]

I would have been your daddy

[low current]

Noted

[thorny pivot]

I always forgot that skull name; I just called it the funny line skull for reference.

[low current]

bruh

[zealous bison]

It is one of the checkpoint lines in CE

[thorny pivot]

Lmao, imagine the Bandanna skull was canon XD

[low current]

Wait, skulls are cannon?

[drowsy mesa]

They're not

[gilded mason]

Chief takes off his helmet to reveal the one and only Solid Snake.

[unique rune]

First time looking through some of the Sangheili stuff in the '22 Encyclopedia and uh. Wow. Rojka sure has a funny looking hat.

Also RIP Tel 'Szatulai, depicted as one of those horribly ugly Reach Sangheili.

[low current]

OH

[gilded mason]

They really dropped the ball on some of those renders

[thorny pivot]

He's Doomguy.

[gilded mason]

Poor Asum. 😔

[low current]

but on steroids

[zealous bison]

They took renders from each game

[gilded mason]

Referencing Bandana Skull being canon.

[thorny pivot]

If the Bandanna Skull was canon, it would be in RvB.

[unique rune]

Asum's depiction hurts my brain

Dural... also looks wonky.

[gilded mason]

wut?

[thorny pivot]

What're you confused on?

[zealous bison]

Is RvB canon or is it not

[gilded mason]

And they didn't use Nizat's actual blue armor and just used standard gold. 😔

[unique rune]

Man the art is such a mixed bag

[thorny pivot]

No, thank god.

[unique rune]

What in the world happened with Sali 'Nyon's
Yeesh

[drowsy mesa]

No

[gilded mason]

I'm not sure what you meant by that line.

[drowsy mesa]

He's building his forces on a former Covenant fortress-world

[thorny pivot]

Twas a joke, my dear friendly Split-jaw. 🙂

[gilded mason]

And they got Nizat's birth date wrong. 😔

[low current]

all i know about the halo verse is cortana is mommy

[unique rune]

I'm specifically talking about his art in the Encyclopedia
It's... something
https://www.halopedia.org/File:Enc22_Nyon.png

[gilded mason]

As least it ain't Asum's

[zealous bison]

Wow

[drowsy mesa]

I prefer buffed 'Nyon :v
https://www.halopedia.org/File:HE14_Sali_'Nyon_Full.jpg

[thorny pivot]

Out of all of the story-esc things in this wonderful, yet cursed franchise. I love that the Sangwenies are our allies.

Loved the Elites since CE.

[zealous bison]

Only some of them are

Mostly just the Swords

[thorny pivot]

Lest I forget, what happened to Rtas?

Half Jaw.

[gilded mason]

He's around, we just don't know his current happenings

[thorny pivot]

That's good to hear. 🙂

[zealous bison]

Probably still working with arby

[thorny pivot]

They turned from not realy friends to Rtas being his shipmaster.

Just brainstormin' off of halo 3's ending.

[low current]

If im not mistaken arby was the one who betrayed the cov or some like that?

[zealous bison]

They knew each other before He became Arbiter

[thorny pivot]

He did because the Prophets were insane.

[gilded mason]

Rtas is one of Thel's trusted companions, though Thel's at the top

[thorny pivot]

Thel is the GIGA CHAD of Elites.

[gilded mason]

It's more that Truth betrayed the Elites first, and they all had to react to that in a variety of different ways.

[thorny pivot]

Imagine back-handing Truth like we did to Regret.

[low current]

Oh

[gilded mason]

According to story boards for the original Halo 2, we might have played as Thel during that.

[zealous bison]

Half jaw only treated arby like he did in Halo 2 because the role of Arbiter was a punishment

[thorny pivot]

Now Arby is the most respected AND respectable Split-jaw in the franchise.

[low current]

cortana is mommy tho

[zealous bison]

Yes because he is now the technical leader of the elites
(Even though not all follow his rule )