#lore-and-universe

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last anchor
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Apparently not. Their biomass can be converted though

fast finch
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oh

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but a juggernaut with a hunter cannon could still be possible right?

unique rune
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Probably?

zenith sun
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Isn't it common knowledge the flood song need a host? Just thinking back to the pure forms in halo 3

last anchor
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Anything can be a host. Combat forms are the most common, but the Flood will rapidly twist and infest anything with biomass around it. Even the entire landscape.

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See; the inside of High Charity and the ship it piloted to Earth

dawn knot
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Are sentinels able to be corrupted by the flood

last anchor
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No

visual orbit
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ONI, the most mistrustful group of spys you'll ever see

last anchor
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Thats their job description

visual orbit
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"Must deny the fact you have silenced civilians"

errant verge
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How did the flood survive in the high charity crash site with no biomass to collect

last anchor
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They dont burn out, a flood form left alone will simply exist. They dont really decay, and High Charity is a big, BIG thing.

dawn knot
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Then how comes in halo 3 the ring is used to kill the infestation when it doesn't affect the flood

last anchor
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It WOULD have...had the ring not exploded

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The whole "it doesnt kill Flood, it kills their food" line has been proven inaccurate several times over.

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As far as can be assertained, the Halo Effect operates by burning out the neurological tissues the Flood seek out; anything with a high enough cognitive levle (or complexity of life) just keels over dead on contact.

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That includes the remains that most Combat Forms (and the captured and constructued neural circutry of pure forms and higher Flood forms), effectively leaving the only things alive the smaller spores and infection forms.

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Those, eventually, go dormant without anything to infect, at which point the Conservation Measures resetlement plan went into effect

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Instillation 08 WOULD have purged the Flood entirely...but the ring exploded before it fired properly because it wasnt finished, the stresses simply tore it apart and badly damaged the Ark

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This still resulted in the overall purging of the Gravemind and killing of most higher Flood forms, which is why the Flood, after being freed by Voridus, attempted to rebuild another Gravemind

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But the smaller forms still existed and High charity landed mostly intact so

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Chiefs reactor detonation only hurt the Gravemind.

balmy gulch
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For the CSO, what does the CSO stand for?

gilded mason
balmy gulch
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thanks

obsidian thistle
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Seeing as...
CCS has 2 C.
DDS has 2 D.

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And some letters dont "seem" to make sense if the meanings hold on some ships

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IE it seems 343i really wanted out that system when one really thinks about it

last notch
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What in the world šŸ’€

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Nvm its gone

quasi notch
last notch
quasi notch
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yes

last notch
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Noice

bleak pond
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DS fan and a Metroid fan

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w

quasi notch
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fr

last notch
bleak pond
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im still pissed about metroid tho

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i got a switch for prime

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and yet its still not out

quasi notch
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well yeah

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its going to be good

bleak pond
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hopefully

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i hope it comes to pc but that will Never happen

quasi notch
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just use switch emu for that

bleak pond
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already planning to lmao

quasi notch
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but i check retro studio's site for their job listings like everyday

bleak pond
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last i heard was they are remaking old primes

quasi notch
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theyre also making prime 4

bleak pond
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i just hope we get a gameplay trailer or something soon

quasi notch
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old primes are just a rumor

quasi notch
bleak pond
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dreed was cool

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just

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not prime

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lmao

quasi notch
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yea

flat olive
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i missed the lore from anything but the early part of the season, what did i miss for story? is it even resolved yet?\

obsidian thistle
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You talking about the Season 2 story?

flat olive
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yeah

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pretty much everything but the entry cutscene, where would i go to get a recap?

obsidian thistle
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Thats the cinematics

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This page has all the Intel

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Thats all major and minor Season 2 fiction.

flat olive
last anchor
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Ainā€™t much but itā€™s there

near fiber
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I refuse to believe that Emile A-239 is dead

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hes not

last anchor
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Jorge has a better chance of being alive

hazy shadow
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I keep waiting for Noble 6 to leave his cave šŸ˜œ

visual orbit
manic sigil
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Yeah I gotta say, I'd rather have Jorge or 6 to still be alive as both of them have a better chance of it

unique rune
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I have an idea: what if they all werenā€™t alive so we wouldnā€™t be actively undermining what little emotional impact Reachā€™s campaign actually has

manic sigil
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I'm not denying the fact that they're dead as hell, just saying it would be cool if a couple of em werent

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No doubt about it, they're all deader than my braincells during a math exam

unique rune
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And my point is that leaving a few to survive wouldnā€™t be cool because youā€™d be retroactively shooting Reachā€™s campaign in the foot. If itā€™s supposed to be a story about sacrifice, going ā€œnah theyā€™re okayā€ afterward more than kinda undermines the whole point of said sacrifice.

obsidian thistle
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What I do want however is stories about Noble (and "MAYBE" B312) before Reach. Seeing as they had ops and so on we never see.

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Seeing B312s early days would be fun

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(Maybe from the eyes of a fellow Sabre pilot in the same group as them)

gritty gazelle
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Was on tik tok told someone that the only difference between Spartan IIā€™s augs and III augs were that IIā€™s were surgical and IIIā€™s were chemical. I proceeded to get called dumb and blocked.

obsidian thistle
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I wouldnt say Tik Tok is the best place for lore debates. šŸ™‚

near fiber
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no freaking sacrifice

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its so stupid because noble team was at that time the longest chain of surviving spartan IIs.(this is because Emile was on 2 other teams of spartan II's before noble, carter and kat were on one other, and so was jum)

unique rune
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what

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Noble is majority Spartan-III

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Jorge was the only S-II on the team

near fiber
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sorry I meant longest chain of surviving spartan IIs(without armor modification)

near fiber
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there was no important sacrifice made in reah

unique rune
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I mean, whether or not any were ā€œimportantā€ isnā€™t relevant as far as Iā€™m concerned.

near fiber
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they were completely unnceccesary

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what are you trying to prove here

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whats the point of so-called sacrifice if its worth nothing

unique rune
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The point is that Reachā€™s story is intended to be one that resonates with the player due to loss and sacrifice. Whether or not it actually lands is a whole other thing, but the point is that if you make it so death has no consequences and characters can just be resurrected or survives negates any emotional weight intended by the writing.

near fiber
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;-;

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nothing is resonating with the player dude, half of noble team died for nothing

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its stupid not sad

unique rune
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Iā€™m not trying to make judgements on whether or not itā€™s actually any good right now. Iā€™ve stated my opinions and general distaste for Noble and Reachā€™s writing here before.

near fiber
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If freaking captain Keyes hadnt killed Emile dude-

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so annoying

unique rune
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My only point here is that wishing for members of Noble to have survived their deaths is silly and undermines the point that Reach is trying to make.

near fiber
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;-;

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ok gi

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ig

near fiber
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I was actually kinda glad when Keyes died

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I mean not really, but he did the same thing to Emile

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so he kinds had that coming

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kinda*

unique rune
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Keyes didnā€™t do anything, Emileā€™s just an idiot who let himself get surrounded.

near fiber
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Keyes knew that when he said that that he was sentencing Emile to death

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Keyes killed an ally, and he was killed by an ally

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funny how it comes back, huh?

unique rune
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That isā€¦ an absurd statement to make.

near fiber
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its true tho

unique rune
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Both Keyes and Emile knew that neither would make it if Emile hadnā€™t been covering them on the Onager. Saying that Keyes killed him is ridiculous and nonsensical.

near fiber
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well he gave the order

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so he both indirectly and directly killed him

unique rune
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Yeah, and Emile went along with it because they didnā€™t have any other options.

near fiber
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so-

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he still died bc of that

unique rune
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That doesnā€™t mean Keyes killed Emile though?

near fiber
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ok fine then, if there truly was no other option, why did Keyes send Emile instead of Noble 6

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no logical explination

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;-;

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it was a random order given to a spartan

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albeit it was useful

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still got emile killed tho

unique rune
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Because B312 was carrying the very important package that made the mission necessary in the first place?

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The package that selected B312 to be its carrier?

near fiber
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BUT NOBLE GAVE THE PACKAGE TO KEYES

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SO IT DOESNT MATTER WHO HAD THE PACKAGE

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SHUT UP

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he could have told noble to go kill himself ;-;

unique rune
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I mean. It. It still kinda matters considering the Cortana fragment trusted Six specifically to get it safely transferred to Keyes.

near fiber
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BUT KEYES DIDNT KNOW THAT CORTANA TRUSTED SIX

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HOW WOULD HE KNOW THAT

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TO KEYES IT WAS JUST 2 SPARTANS

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ONE OF WHICH HE SENTENCED TO DEATH

unique rune
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Why does Keyes need to know that for the transfer to happen?

near fiber
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OMG

unique rune
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  1. Chill with the caps
  2. Six was entrusted to get the package safely to Keyes and he needed to be on the ground to get it moved as quickly as possible
near fiber
near fiber
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OMG

unique rune
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So what does that have anything to do with it?

near fiber
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IT WAS AN ORDER RANDOMLY GIVEN TO A SPARTAN

unique rune
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What order?

near fiber
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TO GET THE WINDOW READY

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OR WHATEVER IT IS

unique rune
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Emile-A239: "Noble to Keyes: we're at the pad."
Keyes (COM): "Copy, Noble. My Pelican's ready. Clear an LZ, and I'll meet you there."
Emile-A239: "Will do, sir. All right, Six... This is it. I'll man the big gun. You just get to the platform and deliver that Package."
Emile was the one who volunteered to head up to the Onager. Keyes didnā€™t specifically order him to.

near fiber
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HUH

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THE QUOTE LEGIT SAYS CLEAR AN LZ

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AND KEYES SAID IT TO EMILE

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ARE U STUPID

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KEYES TELLS EMILE TO CLEAR AN LZ

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WHICH HE DOES AND DIED

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DIES*

unique rune
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Yes and he doesnā€™t specify how.

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Keyes never says ā€œyou man the MACā€ to Emile. Emile tells Six to stay on the pad and deal with incoming Covenant there.

near fiber
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BRO

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he says to emile clear an LZ

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are you like still in your primitive form

unique rune
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Keyes addresses them as Noble, not naming specific callsigns or names. Heā€™s talking to them as a team. Or whatā€™s left of one.

He never orders Emile to operate the MAC, he just nonspecifically says ā€œclear an LZā€. Which is arguably what Six is doing on the pad while Emile is covering him with the Onager.

near fiber
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yup

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guys look

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hes still in his primitive form

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so now r u gonna tell me that mc killed avery ;-;

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lol

unique rune
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Uhh, no, Iā€™m not the one whoā€™s been arguing the whole time that Keyes ā€œkilledā€ Emile even though Emile voluntarily went up to the Onager.

Why would I argue the Chief killed Johnson when that would be so clearly inconsistent with my previous argument?

near fiber
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sigh

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whatever man

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I give up

near fiber
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EMILE GOT KILLED CUZ OF KEYES ADMIT IT

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MAD

last anchor
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He got killed cause they were in an impossible situation and being hunted by high level Sangheili, who he killed two of afterwards. Keyes had nothing to do with it; someone had to take the gun and Six was more useful on the ground butchering Covenant (and the game needed a reason for you to take the gun later)

near fiber
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no

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I still blame Keyes dude

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Maybe I'm just salty cuz I loved emile

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but still

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Fine, he indirectly killed him

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I still hate him for that reason tho

versed helm
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good lord, what did i just read

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anyway i wish we got to see more space combat in the games. the mission in reach was cool, but i honestly wanna see more massive fights like stuff you'd see in SW.

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cause ngl i love the covenant ships to bits šŸ’€

stone arrow
# near fiber Fine, he indirectly killed him

Imagine blaming a UNSC officer for a Covenant dropship offloading Elite Zealots onto a tactically (and possibly even strategically when you consider what it's protecting) significant position

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what even

versed helm
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yeah... lol

near fiber
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No lol I completely agree that its not Keyes fault

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I just need someone to blame

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I loved EMile bro

stable flower
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Emile should've looked at his motion tracker

near fiber
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shoulda coulda woulda eh

zenith sun
last anchor
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Maybe he got salt in his motion tracker like Fred did in Ghosts of Onyx

sharp silo
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ONI fix your gear!

fast finch
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Keyes is a chad

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what a genuinely stupid reason to hate him lmfao

near fiber
near fiber
fair hazel
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Weird..

stable flower
fast finch
sick wren
drowsy mesa
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There is still no canon explanation of why locations like Genesis or Requiem look different from the Halo rings

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The "Builder Style" doesn't hold because Genesis IS a Builder construct

obsidian thistle
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Not every architect makes stuff the same irl.

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That would apply to aliens also

faint escarp
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šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

faint escarp
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@sick wren Yes they "can" change but it wouldn't really make sense to have anything change if there wasn't a necessity for it. It would also make production of everything - buildings, machines, and yes even prometheans - if everything was 'standardized' more or less.

@obsidian thistle And yes, most architects do build the same "copy-paste" vomit. Have you seen most cities? ...or hell-even suburbs. That's usually why people can be shown a photo of a suburbs/cities in one part of the world and can't tell where its at unless there are signage or people in the photo. Its all pretty much the same thing. So @drowsy mesa is right kind of - there is no "good" reason why aesthetics changed in-universe.

versed helm
versed helm
faint escarp
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Yea it would be but youve got to remember. Throughout the Human Covenant war there were ~1000 UNSC ships. Most battles were not fought like battles where the notable fights happened. which is why they are notable

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Most were fought with the USNC ships under seige or ambushed or fairly straight forward by trying to board covenant ships, using MAC cannons/missiles/nukes from a distance, or broadsiding them with their main defense cannons

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It would be cool to see the notable ones though, i agree

magic wagon
magic wagon
versed helm
faint escarp
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I think the orbital defense platforms would have also been cool to see in action. they were largely ineffective but still would be cool to see for the spectacle of it...

magic wagon
magic wagon
versed helm
# magic wagon I think that the way they act needs to be altered slightly because they never se...

It's a toss-up between CE and Reach's AI for me. The aggression of Reach elites felt right to me.. but overall CE seems a little more reserved and more tactical. Infinite's was good but didn't quite scratch the itch of either side of the former ideas for their AI.
I mean I always saw them as somewhat noble though, just.. being zealots to the covenant's cause kind of blinded them so they might come off as less.

faint escarp
# magic wagon I dont know why they wouldnt start with nukes after the first planet. Even earth...

I'd imagine its because of underestimating the Covenant. The UNSC had never faced an enemy as powerful as the Covenant until the Human-Covenant War. Nuke are generally understood as a last resort weapon. And losing one planet could've been seen as a strategic failure but once they start seeing the pattern of planet after planet - its not a strategic failure anymore. Then its a failure of galactic superiority. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

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Plus humans are notoriously stubborn. So admitting they are outmatched until its too late seems the likely mindset. Once they came to the realization, then they probably realized nuke would be commonly required.

magic wagon
versed helm
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Yeah, that's what I mean. Some kinda mix between Reach and CE would be good imo. It'd make them hella intimidating again which.. that's all I want.

magic wagon
faint escarp
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Hubris.

magic wagon
faint escarp
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The most infamous human trait.

magic wagon
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Always was always will be šŸ¤£

versed helm
faint escarp
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But yes ideally, once you see a large portion of warships annihilated - time for the nukes.

magic wagon
magic wagon
faint escarp
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Well usually when some group like the UNSC has been the superpower of the galaxy until the Covenant - Iā€™d imagine the first planet was perceived as human error, the second as shock and disbelief, 3rd as denial, etc.

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When youve always been in power and then you see what ā€œrealā€ power isā€¦ its hard to adjust and accept the realization

magic wagon
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Yh thats true

versed helm
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Also I am sure this has been asked, but is there any actual specific number of ships the covenant had? Or just estimates?

magic wagon
versed helm
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I was also curious on just how fast they can make ships too.. but I think that'd be even harder to tell.

magic wagon
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Probably faster than the unsc because of huragok and yanm'e

faint escarp
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IIRC One of the Profitsā€™ personal fleet was like ~500 carriers, so Iā€™d imagine far more than the UNSC

magic wagon
versed helm
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yanme'e - but yeah I figured that they'd have a lot more + make them much faster,

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I just wonder how much of the covenant we didn't see..

magic wagon
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Provably a lot ngl

faint escarp
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Idk how many exactly the Covenant had but its safe to say they had [a lot] more than the UNSC

versed helm
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Didn't High Charity have "thousands"?

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Like that in itself should say a lot lmfao. Pretty sure it was thousands that was said.

magic wagon
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So they not only have superior technology but also numbers

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I feel like the forerunner ship on high charity could easily take out like everything in the UNSC
If it wasnt full of lekgolo

versed helm
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It's a shame that high charity fell as it did... like it was such a cool concept and was absolutely stunning in H2A - I'd have loved to experience more of it.
Woulda loved to see a game set in it or something. As for the forerunner ship... I'm not so sure about that.

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The MAC on the Infinity was able to punch a hole through the Didact's ship - which was, I'm pretty sure, WAY more designed for war in comparison to the ship on high charity.

magic wagon
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Id rather see an open world game on the ark then on high charity

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Imma go play h2 see yall later

versed helm
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Alr

stable flower
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Covenant military was 32 billion strong IIRC

gilded mason
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I don't recall a number actually ever being given

magic wagon
near fiber
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High charity? Covenant donates to charity? thats pretty cool ngl

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maybe they arent that bad after all

near fiber
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also, To all the people that say that Emile should have checked his motion tracker(as it was the cause of his death) Upon close review, Emile actually stiffens before he gets hit with the sword, proving that he knew it was coming.

astral crypt
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Emile still went out like a boss

near fiber
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for sure man, my fav reach char fr

fair hazel
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He should have gotten good and killed the other elite

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without dying

near fiber
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if you watch closely, he could have

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he stiffens up before getting hit, which shows that if he wanted to, he could have dodged it on time

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but his death had to symbolize something

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so ya

fair hazel
fair hazel
near fiber
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its not very visible, but he def knows the elite is there

gilded mason
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I just checked as well. He wasn't stiffening. Just maneuvering his arms a bit, which involved a slight change in his spine.

teal sphinx
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His motion tracker broke

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Very sad

sick wren
# faint escarp <@770327005941465178> Yes they "can" change but it wouldn't really make sense to...

I know im late but here i go, the reasons why i think the forerunner is different is because of context. The halo rings were not meant to be live on (not by the forerunners themselves) there meant be weapons, and there also meant to act as labs and containment sites for the flood, hence the minimum use of floating architecture, heavy use doors (doors that aren't made of hard light), minimum to no use of gravity lifts, and most bridges and crossing using metal rather than hard light. It make sense since hard light canonicaly takes a metric butt ton of power to make and require s power to constantly flow through it in order for it to stay in that state. It also explains the weird repeat rooms (not an excuse for them being in game just a lore reason) since the ring was designed to be travesed primarily by Sentinels and moniters. It seems like it being travsible by people was added solely for the reason that if the ring needed to be fired again it would need to have way to have a reclaimer traverse it.

last anchor
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Halo instillations were also, under the request of the Librarian, converted into wildlife preserves to save and catalog the life they would eventually help kill.

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Similar to the Ark, which has no real reason to be fully terraformed and livable, but is.

sick wren
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True but if you look at shield worlds they were designed to be lived in, each shield world is probably built different because each one did something different ghost of onyx's shield World and requiem are technical shield installations but they look function (in some ways) completely Differently

last anchor
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Because there wasnt an agreement as to what they wanted to do with them, and then eventually the idea was scrapped in favor of the Halos because the Builder Rate were jerks.

drowsy mesa
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Ironically, the Librarian requesting Halos being habitable was the final nail of her husband's plan for the Shield Worlds

near fiber
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he could have survived

gilded mason
near fiber
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ok then

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how is that my problem

latent sinew
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I don't think Emile knew that, that's kind of silly. If he did, he pretty much doomed Noble Six just so he could go out with a bang. If we want to discuss niche takes tho, we can all agree that Noble Six survived...šŸ™ƒ

gilded mason
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I don't think Emile knew that, that's kind of silly. If he did, he pretty much doomed Noble Six just so he could go out with a bang.
^

near fiber
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and dying for no reason

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Emile didnt doom noble 6 at all, noble 6 could have left

latent sinew
near fiber
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he could have dipped bro

latent sinew
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when was the last time you played thru reach

gilded mason
latent sinew
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thats what im saying

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sure, you can say that a marine shouldve stayed, but six steppes

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stepped up

gilded mason
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(Also, how did that doom John. He's fine)

latent sinew
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^

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if anything, being selfish and trying to leave on the autumn wouldve doomed John. Although it would be pretty cool to see Noble Six on the Ring in CE...

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Theres a free knockoff game for you 343

gilded mason
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pls no lmao

near fiber
gilded mason
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Nah. =)

latent sinew
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some fans are making a movie about six surviving on reach

gilded mason
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Man, that's...something.

latent sinew
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i think its coming ouot next year

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its only going to be like 30 minutes long animated using the reach engine

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but still thats so cool that the community can and wants to do that

gilded mason
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It sort of feels more like a symptom of the issue a lot of fans have regarding being obsessed with spartans and desiring contrivances/everything to be about John, Noble-6, etc.

near fiber
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yeah

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I love emile so much

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I would pay to have him survive lore-wise

pallid fern
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Ok I need help with this AU thing

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I have a problem, why would Master Chief try to kill my guardian after stumbling into D2's universe?

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I have a whole doc for it that I can send

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Or part of it has it

gilded mason
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The only possible reason I can think if is if the Guardian tries to kill him first. I can't see anything else

pallid fern
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But I need a reason for why my Guardian would want to kill him too

gilded mason
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Why do you want John to try to kill him?

pallid fern
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That's the thing I don't know

gilded mason
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Then don't.

pallid fern
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But I want them to

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Make it respectful but also gruesome

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Maybe chief knows about the IO and sides with them?

gilded mason
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That feels a bit like a cliche "superhero meeting", don'tcha think? Where the the crossover happens and then they immediately fight each other for silly reasons.

pallid fern
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Maybe the IO offered protection to the UNSC and the Vanguard. My Guardian goes against it while chief is ok with it. To John it helps humanity in his universe, while it feels like a parasite to my Guardian (Markus), who used to be controlled by Bray Tech. Markus doesn't want it to happen to John's universe.

deft coral
pallid fern
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Actually, maybe them fighting is a bad decision. If I can't find a reason, why bother trying to make them fight in the first place.

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I can rewrite it to where its more of a story as to how a magnum managed to came to D2

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The exotic sidearm known as Forerunner that you can get from dares of eternity in D2

near fiber
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I have no idea what was just said in this channel

last anchor
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Ahhh crossovers

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NGL bro your Guardians toast of Chief wants him dead

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Even if he can revive

gilded mason
last anchor
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Iā€™ll believe what Bungie says about actual power levels in Destiny when the Vanguard grows a spine XD

soft egret
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Destiny imo is just

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a ___ measuring contest devised to get kids easily awed by impossibly sized spaceships to play

last anchor
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I just like my numbers is all, and the capabilities of Guardians seem to fluctuate with the needs of the lore.
Which is...kind of the same with Spartans, certainly, but at least with Spartans you dont have stuff like literal space magic powers to mess with.

soft egret
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The spartans seem to exist within a certain amount of fluctuating amounts of information that are relevant, but not at the same time

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Guardians are

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Not that

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it just changes on a whim afaik

last anchor
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Makes sense considering its a grind based FPS MMO. Gotta feed that "you are this guardian" sorta thing. Always something new to chase.

near fiber
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E mile best spartan ever

faint escarp
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Does the end always justify the means?

"įµ‚Ź°įµ‰āæ įµ’āæįµ‰ Ź·įµ’Ź³Ė”įµˆ įµƒį¶ įµ—įµ‰Ź³ įµƒāæįµ’įµ—Ź°įµ‰Ź³ į¶ įµ‰Ė”Ė”, Ź·Ź°įµ‰āæ įµŹø Ė¢įµ–įµƒŹ³įµ—įµƒāæĖ¢ Ź·įµ‰Ź³įµ‰ įµƒĖ”Ė” įµ—Ź°įµƒįµ— Ė¢įµ—įµ’įµ’įµˆ įµ‡įµ‰įµ—Ź·įµ‰įµ‰āæ Ź°įµ˜įµįµƒāæį¶¦įµ—Źø įµƒāæįµˆ įµ‰Ė£įµ—į¶¦āæį¶œįµ—į¶¦įµ’āæ, āæįµ’ įµ’āæįµ‰ Ź·įµƒĖ¢ į¶œįµ’āæį¶œįµ‰Ź³āæįµ‰įµˆ įµ’įµ›įµ‰Ź³ Ź·Ź°Źø įµ—Ź°įµ‰Źø Ź·įµ‰Ź³įµ‰ įµ’Ź³į¶¦įµį¶¦āæįµƒĖ”Ė”Źø įµ‡įµ˜į¶¦Ė”įµ—" - į“°Ź³. į““įµƒĖ”Ė¢įµ‰Źø

#

She had a point. Who cares if a few children were taken from their families and went through the Spartan Program if they saved millions of children and their families, if not the entire human race - from being separated from each other or outright killed. Small price to pay however cruel or brutal is may be. Such is war imo. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

faint escarp
# gilded mason John isn't god. A Guardian would wipe the floor with him, actually.

Guardians would only beat Master Chief because Guardians don't "die". Master Chief, as powerful and versatile as he is - is still human. Even with the Mjolnir armor, Master Chief has a physical limit because the human body has a limit. As some point he will become exhausted or unable to win due to Guardians' ability to keep coming back. Without that ability, Master Chief wins easily 1v1 1-life battle.

craggy sierra
unique rune
#

The whole "ends justify the means" logic is what got the UNSC into a situation that prompted them to initiate the Spartan project in the first place. It's a pretty... inhumane and unfeeling way to look at things.

faint escarp
# craggy sierra The thing is the Spartans were never made to fight the covenant. They were made ...

No they were made to stop insurgents who were willing to use nukes to fight the UNSC even if it meant killing millions of innocent civilians in the process. But even still, the price of the sacrifice of a few children to save millions of children and families. Not saying the UNSC wasn't to blame for the situation in the first place but it was getting to a point where mutual destruction was the most likely outcome vs 'war of attrition'.

faint escarp
versed helm
#

Punic supercarriers, MACs, the comically oversized infantry weapons (.308 assualt rifles with 60 round magazines, .500 magnum sidearms, anti material rifles as sniper rifles, 8 gauge shotguns etc.)

#

All to fight insurrectionosts?

last anchor
#

Apparently Innie bodyarmors really good

versed helm
#

Lole

#

It would make a lot more sense of the UNSC was fighting another faction of similar scale, especially the scale of navy ships

stable flower
#

Everything in the UNSC is high-powered

hazy shadow
#

Technically in HCE they'd been fighting the Covenant for decades already, so they knew that regular calibers were much less effective against the aliens. In the books when they're fighting Innies a lot of times they're using smaller caliber weapons if the author is paying attention. Still subject to the "it's a video game" clause, but there can be explanations made if you really need it.

faint escarp
# versed helm Punic supercarriers, MACs, the comically oversized infantry weapons (.308 assual...

The point is even with the overpowered arsenal of the UNSC, they knew restraint because you canā€™t control the galaxy if everyone is dead. The Innies had multiple instances of showing no restraint and killing UNSC - yes, but also a large amount of civilians as well. So at some point the UNSC had to do something to save the galaxy from being annihilated in the process by the Innies ruthlessness even if had an ulterior motive. Hence, the Spartan Program.

#

Which goes back to - ā€œends justifies the means.ā€ If the innies were willing to kill everyone if it meant the UNSC was destroyed also - is it really that inhumane for the UNSC to take a small group of children to produce the Spartans if it meant saving the human race and winning the war in the process?

faint escarp
unique rune
#

They only did that because the UNSC was giving them a pretty raw deal in the first place

#

At the time the Covenantā€™s goals were largely unclear to humanity and Insurrection leaders thought their beef was with the UNSC and not all of humanity for existing

#

It was a pragmatic but ultimately somewhat naive and doomed plan.

royal whale
#

Right the Earth Government is as authoritarian as it gets?

last anchor
#

Not quite.

versed helm
#

But stuff like the Punic supercarrier and MA5B existed before the war

royal whale
#

What is insurgent ideology

fair hazel
#

Uh. The unsc launched nukes first

#

Far isle

#

And yeah is unethical for them to do that. Kidnapping kids.

#

Unsc arenā€™t strictly good guys

#

Governmental and diplomatic failure was at the core of the innies fighting

last anchor
#

Enhanced by lack of FTL communications

cedar tinsel
#

So telekinesis is one of the abilities chief got from the librarian?

gilded mason
#

Nope

cedar tinsel
#

Yes

#

How come in 4 chief could hear the didact but not Cortana

last anchor
#

Presumably a Domain link. Its never elaborated on nor mentioned ever again

cedar tinsel
#

Telepathy

last anchor
#

Your applying improper names to it.
Mental abilities like that dont exist in Halo.

#

Closets thing is Forerunner tech but thats merely high science (ex; we see the graviational waves coming from the Didacts hand when he lifts the Chief).

cedar tinsel
#

Then explain how the didact took control of the covenant in the beginning of 4

last anchor
#

M'dama.

gilded mason
#

...They chose to serve him

last anchor
#

We even see him kneel and say "Didact"

cedar tinsel
#

No

gilded mason
#

Yes.

last anchor
#

Their whole purpose of existance was to awaken him and get him to smack humanity around.

stable flower
#

It was technically the middle

cedar tinsel
#

The didact took over their minds

gilded mason
#

He did not.

cedar tinsel
#

Yes he did

last anchor
#

No psykers in Halo my dude.

cedar tinsel
#

Bro yes he did

gilded mason
#

You are flat out wrong.

cedar tinsel
#

ā€œYou havnt mastered these beastā€

unique rune
#

The entire reason ā€˜Mdamaā€™s forces were at Requiem was to awaken the Didact, why in the world would he need mind control?

cedar tinsel
#

Bro he took over their minds and was speaking to chief telepathically at the end

unique rune
gilded mason
#

Christ.

cedar tinsel
#

That he took over their minds

last anchor
#

Someone didnt read the Forerunner trilogy it would seem.
Or, we're seeing our first lore-troll.

gilded mason
#

Pretty sure it's the latter

last anchor
#

Which, honestly, Im surprised it took this long.

unique rune
#

Ehhh I dunno if Iā€™d say first

last anchor
#

First one I know.

#

But then, its been a LONG while and this chat stays dead for LONG periods.

unique rune
#

Feel like weā€™ve had worse
Like all that nonsense with Sangheili reproduction

last anchor
#

Or the Chief suit stuff?

gilded mason
#

God, that suit stuff

cedar tinsel
#

He waved his hand controlling the covenant minds and thatā€™s when he said chief havnt been able to tame those ā€˜beastā€™ therefore he shouldnā€™t hold the mantle

last anchor
#

He waved his hand and converted the Prometheans. The Covenant were already kneeling.

cedar tinsel
#

No they wasnā€™t

#

Go through it again

#

He took over the covenants minds

#

They werenā€™t kneeling

unique rune
#

I have played Halo 4ā€™s campaign far more times than is probably healthy and I think I can safely say that is not the case

cedar tinsel
#

I guarantee cause even the library said she gave chief many ā€˜giftsā€™

unique rune
#

And here I was thinking ā€œKeyes killed Emileā€ was gonna be the most ridiculous take posted here this week

#

Though to be honest that one might still take it

last anchor
#

-Apparently has amazing psyker powers from Warhammer 40k and can dominate minds.
-GETS DUNKED ON BY WEAKEST IN GAME GRENADE AND HAS A COMPOSER DROPPED ON HIM.

gilded mason
last anchor
#

One of em even addresses who he is when they kneel.

unique rune
#

When he says ā€œIf you haven't mastered even these primitives, then Man has not attained the Mantle.ā€ heā€™s referring to humanity as a whole not having reached a point where they can assert dominance over the rest of the galaxy like the Forerunners did.

cedar tinsel
#

All the lights from the prometheans changed to yellow and so did the covenants body armor

#

Look at the elite back

#

The lighting is now yellow when he bows

#

Their standard armor lighting is usually blue

unique rune
#

Their shield distributor lights are white the entire time

last anchor
#

Im looking, I see the Prometheans accepting the new command heiarchy but the Sangheili armors the same.

#

Theres reflected light, but thats FROM the Prometheans

#

How in the heck would he change their SHIELD POINT LIGHTS anyway? Most of those dont have a color to them, they just glow.

cedar tinsel
#

No look at the back where the circle is and the two lines under

#

Itā€™s yellow

last anchor
#

Im seeing reflected yellow light from the glowing around them, nothing more.

cedar tinsel
#

To

#

Bro

gilded mason
cedar tinsel
#

No it wasnā€™t

last anchor
#

He even says "even these beasts recognize what you are oblivious to".
If he took over their minds, why would he say that?

gilded mason
unique rune
#

posts screencap from first mission showing it was
ā€wrongā€

cedar tinsel
#

Posted it where

gilded mason
#

...

#

Use your eyes, please.

cedar tinsel
#

Thereā€™s literally nothing

last anchor
#

(Inheritor powers activate)

#

This is from the very first level, the VERY first elite you kill.

gilded mason
#

I wish I was an Inheritor. šŸ˜”

last anchor
#

Paitence, friend.

gilded mason
last anchor
#

You gotta be active is the thing.

gilded mason
#

I was very active back when they were first handin' those out. šŸ˜”

last anchor
#

Keep going, Im sure it'll happen.

near fiber
near fiber
sharp silo
near fiber
#

oh shoot

#

never thought abt it that way

#

that is a bit far-fetched tho

sharp silo
#

It is

#

Had a loooong talk on that

near fiber
#

I loved emile tho

#

but i agree

#

It doesnt make sense because if you argue that keyes killed emile because of his order, then you could also argue that dr halsey killed emile because she made the suit that he died in

#

@sharp silo

sharp silo
#

Yes

#

Someone made a joke about hating the Prophets since they send the elites

#

And yes, Emile is great

near fiber
#

:))

near fiber
#

whos ur fav noble spartan?

sharp silo
#

Carter or Emile

terse lava
#

Can't say I really cared for any of them really.

royal whale
#

They all died so quickly

#

Same I didn't really get the sad feelings in Reach, just "well that was unexpected" vibes

sharp silo
#

IĀ“m a lore lover so it was hard for me

#

I got into the game with "their all gonna die and I know that" and I left it with "No theyĀ“re all dead!"

last anchor
unique rune
#

Noble mostly made me feel bad about the resources spent on making their armor. Jorge was alright though.

#

Jun killed me on Nightfall the other day so I don't like him as much.

near fiber
#

I didn't like how quickly they were killed

#

I guess jorge and kat took me by surprise

#

but it became a tragic recurring theme

near fiber
near fiber
#

it was the first video game I've ever played

#

and Emile was the first video game character/spartan that I have ever seen

royal whale
#

Mine was halo 2

#

With killer machine green boi

#

And dinosaur guy

#

Reach also didn't really give me that "oh everything is hopeless" vibe

#

Considering you're a spartan who still manages to kill aliens and your squad is pretty much still alive

#

Gotta say it does give that impression of chaos tho

near fiber
#

fr

near fiber
#

I still love emile doe

fast finch
#

I just wish Bungie didnt ignore the books when making Halo Reach

near fiber
#

wait

#

wdym

#

how did they ignore the books>?

#

@fast finch

fast finch
#

the covenant being on Reach before august 30

near fiber
#

oh yeah

#

dude thats so true

#

the covenant was on Reach before the game said it was

#

ur right

#

thats dumb

fast finch
#

in the books the covenant arrived on august 30, In the game the covenant had been there for how many days again?

#

not days, weeks or perhaps a month iirc

#

there is also the two cortanas (which is an issue that was later retconned)

#

PoA about to leave the system

Halsey calls and tells keyes he forgot the fragment

#

keyes and the poa

#

šŸƒ šŸ’Ø

stable flower
#

The large amount of new tech is another thing

fast finch
#

that too

#

pretty sure there are also some issues with halsey meeting the spartan 3s

#

though Im not sure

#

Though the one that bothers me the most is the fact that the covenant has been on reach for idk how many weeks

#

also no idea how the Long Night of Solace managed to evade the defense fleet and park on Reach lol

#

was that ever explained

stable flower
#

It was cloaked

fast finch
#

No one detected its arrival through slipspace?

#

or detected it with their sensors? Surely its heat signature or anything would have given away its position?

near fiber
#

nope

#

its just that weird

fast finch
#

how convenient

near fiber
#

ikr

#

@fast finch whos ur fav noble spartan

fast finch
#

Six

near fiber
#

other than the character that you play ;-;

#

I mean like a spartan other than 6

fast finch
#

Jun I guess

near fiber
#

REALLY

#

bro u like Jun

#

the dude who said "dying is gay, I'm out"

#

he straight up left

#

you like him?

#

hes so absent from the game as well

#

you really only get to play with him on nightfall

#

and even themn

fast finch
#

he was the most useful companion ai in the game

#

found him somewhat useful in legendary

#

even if the overall ally ai was dumb as hell, he compensated for that with his sniper

near fiber
#

;-;

#

He's useless man

#

I mean ig i get where u are coming from

#

but I had such a hard time on nightfall

#

cuz of his stupid AI

#

and I don't like him for just leaving, IK that it was an order given to him by carter, but he could have helped

fast finch
#

helped by defying a direct order

#

and possibly getting Halsey killed

fast finch
near fiber
#

so are you suggesting that his terrible AI is compensated by his weapon ;-;

fast finch
#

Whats the issue with that?

#

Emile has a terrible AI and his shotgun makes him almost useless

near fiber
near fiber
fast finch
#

lmao

near fiber
fast finch
#

besides, someone had to deliver cortana

near fiber
#

hmnph

#

wait

#

why was it so vital that cortana be delivered to the pillar of Autumn

#

couldnt noble team all just go with halsey and take cortana

#

that way they all survive with cortana

#

isnt that just a better ending

#

;-;

#

@fast finch

fast finch
near fiber
#

huh

#

that doesnt make sense

#

so you are suggesting that cortana needed to go to the PoA so that she can help mc with CE?

#

there is no way that they would have expected covenant to follow the PoA

fast finch
#

thats the meta reason, Reach is a prequel to CE

near fiber
#

and plus, if cortana was alr at the PoA, why do we need 2?

#

that doesnt make sense

fast finch
#

Thats an issue created by the plot of HR because it ignored the books

fast finch
near fiber
#

lol, bungie was in such a rush to kill the noble spartans that they messed up lore

unique rune
#

More that Bungie was generally planning to overwrite that lore with Reach in the first place

fast finch
#

Halsey also believed that Cortana's info on forerunner tech would have been vital in defeating the covies, didnt she say so in a cutscene?

unique rune
#

Internally there seems to have been some division over the issue because they included Halseyā€™s journal with the Legendary edition which attempted to smooth over some of the inconsistencies

near fiber
#

you said so urself

unique rune
#

As established in material that Bungie may or may not have wanted to keep canon at the time

fast finch
#

343 retconned this so that the cortana Six delievered to the PoA was a fragment of the real cortana already at the autumn. This fragment possessed information on forerunner tech

unique rune
#

Their intention with Reach was generally to establish their canonical version of their events to take precedence over what the Fall of Reach novel had already stated

near fiber
#

im so confused

fast finch
# near fiber im so confused

the cortana Six delievered to the PoA was a fragment of the real cortana already at the autumn. This fragment possessed information on forerunner tech

near fiber
#

šŸ˜­

#

what is going on man

unique rune
#

Bungieā€™s plans for the whole Pillar of Autumn situation was that prior lore is no longer relevant
Cortana was never on the ship, she was on down on the planet with Halsey containing nav data for Alpha Halo and other Forerunner tech stuff pulled from the ship

#

But obviously this directly conflicts with previous lore from The Fall of Reach, so various retcons needed to be made to try and smooth them out

near fiber
#

see @fast finch is saying that there were 2 cortanas, but emperor is saying only 1

#

im so confused

unique rune
#

343 retconned it so there were ā€œtwo Cortanasā€

fast finch
#

bungie's intention was to overwrite the fall of reach novel, which is what Nova is saying

unique rune
#

As far as Bungie cared at the time there was only one

fast finch
#

yeah

#

Honestly

#

its pretty hard to reconcile those two stories

#

I appreciate 343's efforts but

#

lmao they just feel like hard copium sometimes

last anchor
#

Halo Canon did a pretty good job of making it work fairly well

fast finch
#

its neat how 4 had her use that same trick again

near fiber
#

well now cortanas dead so mc gets the last laugh

fast finch
#

but yeah, the information the cortana Six Delivered carried information on forerunner tech that Halsey deemed critical for humanity's survival which is why noble team had to deliver her @near fiber

near fiber
#

why the PoA

#

oh wait

#

I get it now

#

cuz there is already cortana on the PoA

#

the one that they were delivering was a fragment

#

ah

fast finch
#

yeah

near fiber
#

dang

fast finch
#

I do wonder why the Cat II spartans werent deployed to the generators

near fiber
#

whats a cat II

fast finch
#

the other spartan teams mentioned by Kat and Carter

#

and the spartan corpses seen in Lone Wolf

#

Those guys were Cat IIs

#

I think Noble Team is a cat II team

near fiber
#

ohhhhhhhhh

#

emile

fast finch
#

iirc cat 2s were teams like Noble

royal whale
#

Spartan iiis?

fast finch
#

think they are spartan 3 teams equipped with mjolnir armor

last anchor
#

CAT-IIs are Spartan-IIIs with the genetic markers the Spartan-IIs were picked for, designated as being too valauble to simply throw away on missions like PROMETHEUS and TORPEDO

#

The Spartans on Lone Wolf are...rough canonicity, we're not 100% sure about them.

fast finch
#

ah

last anchor
#

All of Noble being CAT-IIs are confirmed though, Lucy was also one but I dont believe Kurt was able to snag her

fast finch
#

But yeah I assume the corpses seen in the game's last mission were meant to be the teams Kat and Carter talked about

#

ah

terse lava
#

Most likely

fast finch
last anchor
#

By that point, they probably were already lost. I always figured they were trying to get off planet and got trapped in Azod same as Six was

fast finch
#

Hmm

#

wait a second, how far away was Azod from the generators again?

#

the generators were close to the original training facility S2s trained at

#

iirc

#

guess that maybe they were just too far away to be deployed in time?

#

that or/and they were deployed to deal with the bulk of the covenant's forces while noble team delivered Cortana?

near fiber
#

bro

stable flower
#

I hate when people try to claim the new weapons, new vehicles, armor abilities, and Skirmishers were destroyed and lost on Reach to justify their absence in other games.

last anchor
#

Its like people saying the UNSC completely replaced the MA5D after H5.

#

Bruh, just cause it aint in the game dont mean its not THERE, engine limitations and sandbox restrictions are a thing

terse lava
#

Didn't Bungie themselves originally make that claim about the skirmishers?

last anchor
#

Woudlnt be surprised if they had

#

One of those "please stop asking us this question we really dont care, why do you care" kinda things

unique rune
#

From what I understand it was a misinterpreted line from a single interview that said that

near fiber
fast finch
#

Thus at least justifying their absence in CE

#

as for why they werent in 2 and 3...

#

shrugs

#

I do recall the reach manual stating that the armor abilities were developed exclusively on Reach

#

But even then, that shouldnt be a valid justification for the absence of the game's exclusive weapons

last anchor
#

The POAs compliment was intended for a shipboard assault

#

That might explain some of it.

fast finch
#

Yeah, I imagine it might only explain why armor abilities disappeared at least

#

pretty sure that some of HR's weapons like the DMR were seen on Earth, not in game obviously

near fiber
#

no

fast finch
#

but I do recall seeing a picture of an odst fireteam fending off waves of jackals and one of them wielding a DMR

last anchor
#

I remember them saying the Army was one of the last groups to still use the DMR and the MA37, liking what they had rather than upgrading

fast finch
#

hm looks more like the H4 dmr

last anchor
#

The M395 replaced the M392 in most service branches

#

But its role as marksman weapon was basically filled by the BR55

near fiber
#

oh my godwhats goin on

fast finch
#

based

last anchor
#

Its also possible there were armor abilities in CE but since Chief had baseline MK V and not the more flexible but cheaper MK V(B) that Noble had, there might not have been any way to integrate them had any survived.

fast finch
#

I honestly think that at best the only armor abilities he could have had would have belonged to the covenant troops (like evade or the covenant's armor lock)

#

you could also probably argue that maybe chief did use active camo?

last anchor
#

Those pickups are WEIRD honestly.

#

I dont think we ever get a canon explanation for those.

fast finch
#

they aint mentioned in the flood either

last anchor
#

And then we never see em again afterwards (they aren't in H2 outside of multiplayer and those are the weird glowy spheres we know and love anyway)

#

4 didnt have em at all cause they had the armor abilities again like in reach.

fast finch
#

Halo 5 at least gave a good explanation as to what they are (even if the power ups only show up in MP)

last anchor
#

And then 5 and Infinite have those cool ground based devices

#

Technically I think they exist in mainline armor sets too, the models the same as that lock down one they try to use on Chief.

fast finch
#

But i think it'd be better to try and retcon some of those pickups into being armor abilities. At least that could work for active camo

#

dunno about overshield

#

evade is apparently built into every elite harness

#

or so the manual of HR stated if my memory serves me right

fast finch
terse lava
#

I think evade was the only one to not get an in-universe reason to exist. That one seems pretty much to be a pure game mechanic existence

fast finch
#

I think the manual did say it existed in universe

terse lava
#

shrug We never see it in campaign, or on the Sangheili for that matter

#

only in multi-player

last anchor
#

Sprint is less of an armor ability and more a "hack" Kat made

fast finch
#

drop shield was exclusively UNSC made in an attempt to copy covenant equipment

#

I can buy it not showing up later tbh

#

especially if it was developed at Reach

near fiber
#

I thought that sprint was just a type of fast running

#

am I missing smthing here

fast finch
#

Jet Pack
FIELD DATA This newest model portable jump-jet finally has the power to lift a Spartan in the latest-generation MJOLNIR armor.
Sprint
FIELD DATA S-320 is largely responsible for this plug. While not quite a hack, it does temporarily override the safety limiters on actuators and ā€œmusclesā€ā€”cheating the system regulators to keep the operator cool as well.
Holographic Decoy
FIELD DATA This gives the operator the ability to create a virtual, holographic projection, which can be used as a decoy to draw enemy fire. The decoy has a regular lifespan of 10 seconds, but may be canceled at any time.
Active Camouflage
FIELD DATA Renders the operator virtually invisible. Overall effectiveness is dependent on operator disciplineā€”rapid or sudden movement tends to overtax the system.
Drop Shield
FIELD DATA An evolution of the bubble shield employed by Ī²5 Strike Teams, it creates a temporary, semi-spherical protective shield that also provides a curious restorative effect (still under investigation).
Armor Lock
FIELD DATA Fairly effective even in this early prototype stage, it has internal components nearly identical to the Covenant gear that spawned it. The biggest drawback is that the local gravitic effect essentially immobilizes the operator.
Evade [RESTRICTEDā€”COVENANT MATERIEL]
This appears to be a dummy module or terminator plug. While it is critical for operating the Elitesā€™ armor, its precise function is unknown. Spartans are encouraged to acquire it in the field if possible

#

this is what the manual says

#

also fireteam raven made it so that falcons were present at the battle of Installation 04

terse lava
#

Raven also had it to where a lich attacked attacked Alpha Base, when no such thing happened in the novel. Know retcons are a thing, but that particular one always seemed odd

fast finch
#

true that

#

alpha base just had Silva and his ODSTs take out ghosts and banshees correct?

near fiber
#

correct I think

terse lava
#

That was when they assaulted the base.

fast finch
#

when did the lich show up again?

terse lava
#

In the book? It didn't

fast finch
#

No no I mean, was it supposed to have participated in the battle Zamamee set up?

terse lava
#

According to Raven, guess so. Looks to appear after the Spec ops failed infiltration

fast finch
#

hm

#

field master was already dead by then iirc

terse lava
#

That wasn't till near the end of the battle, where he was blown apart by a tank shell. The time shown in the game looks to be when the covenant army was forced to move in on foot, with the spirit drop ships providing cover fire ahead

#

come to think of it, that was a missed oppurtunity for the game. Could have been put in one of those semi-buried tanks to fire at the covenant army

fast finch
#

huh checking gameplay rn

#

drones also show up

terse lava
#

another retcon

#

Does make me wonder though, we know thanks to the Halo 2 LE manuel, that speaks from the view of Thel 'Vadamee, that Jiralhanae were present during the battle as well. Since nothing has touched on them yet, I wonder what part they played during the conflict, seeing as they apparently never fought the humans

fast finch
#

well we also dont know much on the encounters the covies had with the flood right

#

we also know jackal snipers were around they apparently wielded uh one of the Halo 5 unique beam rifles

#

ā€œKig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood onslaught on Installation 04. Improved Halo 2 Beam Rifle with faster rate of fire and increased hipfire accuracy.ā€
ā€” In-game description

#

and I dont think we saw any jackal snipers during the events of CE so far

#

Guess Brutes and Jackal snipers fended off the flood... somewhere

#

lol

#

truly a deadly combo even rocket flood would have a hard time with

#

angry h2 brutes and jackal snipers

terse lava
#

heh indeed

stable flower
#

Yeah Jackal Snipers were conceived in Halo 2, but lore-wise they were present throughout the war

visual orbit
#

They're real pieces of work those bloody chickens

terse lava
#

I do like how the Halo 2 legendary ones have now been made canon in the form of a mysterious order of sorts that Regret likes using

last anchor
#

The meme lives

rich yew
#

hey uh

#

question

#

does anyone know how many people died on earth specifically

#

during the battle of earth

terse lava
#

No exact number exists

rich yew
#

just wanted an estimation

#

im assuming earth's population would be around 10-12 billion roughly

#

pre-war

terse lava
#

We are told millions died from the plasma bombardment alone according to Hunt the Truth

rich yew
#

that would make sense in east africa

#

considering all the landing locations it probably would've killed much more

terse lava
#

it was also stated that after the battle for Earth ended, only a mere 22(or 220) million humans were left

rich yew
#

just on earth?

#

yeesh

gilded mason
#

Yeah

terse lava
#

Glasslands also mentions how billions died

#

Heh I remember right after halo 3 came out and the booklet that came with the LE that had that fact, it was somtimes taken as humans total

rich yew
#

wowzers

terse lava
#

That obviously wasn't the case though

hearty quiver
#

Reach still has inhabitants

sharp silo
last anchor
#

Last we see it theres a couple thousand living in the caves under the planets glassy crust.
Plus however many UNSC forces got left behind when Infinity bailed

royal whale
#

Infinity?

#

Wasn't the Pillar of autumn last to leave reach?

last anchor
#

Before it was glassed yes

#

Then the Ascendant Justice arrived after Chief and his Alpha Halo survivors Grand Theft Spaceship'd it right from under Thel's nose, hung around for a bit, stole the dead UNSC Gettsyberg for extra power, extracted surviving S-IIs and then promptly left for Eridanus II. After that the war ended, human survivors returned, and started attempting to clear the planet.

#

Then the Banished showed up looking for the extra bits of the Forerunner complex under Menachite Mountain.

#

Then Blue Team arrived to extract important stuff from the same area and Infinity deployed reenforcements to help.

#

All of that hullabalu brought the attention of a Guardian Custodes and the UNSC couldnt evacuate all of its forces before the Guardian did a little trolling so any dropship still in orbit or left behind belined for the surface so they wouldnt crash and burn with no power

royal whale
#

What if

#

ODSTs used parachutes instead

last anchor
#

Your thinking of the high altitude parawing pack we see in Field Test and the Alpha Company Induction

royal whale
#

Right you can just drop spartans in with no soeivs or whatever straight from orbit?

last anchor
#

Not quite from orbit, though MK VII does have shield shaping to allow for limited airfoil creation.

#

Even a Spartan cant survive reentry unprotected

royal whale
#

That's interesting, shaping shields to produce lift

last anchor
#

It was an idea Halsey had as far back as MK Vs roll out. Her journal chronicles theoretical tech for the MK VII, including the shapable shield fields and integrated weapon systems.

#

Mind you the term "MK VII" has become more flexible now, as techincally we HAD a MK VII, worn by Naiomi, which was then benched for GEN 2...but reactivated for GEN 3 after GEN 2s issues were noted

royal whale
#

The scorpion is a bad tank

#

90mm is smol gun for the 26th century

faint escarp
#

its not about the size of the cannon, its about the contents/design of the tank shell. think of bunker buster bombs for example... generally small but very powerful if used properly

royal whale
#

There's only so much you can fit into tiny 90mm cylinder

#

Unless you tell me that the scorpion carriesba mini nuke with it

faint escarp
#

again. not the size of the shell or cannon. contents - (e.g. chemical compounds/explosive compounds) or **design **(e.g. bunker buster bombs/smart bomb) of the tank shell

royal whale
#

Explain how 90mm is better than 125mm

faint escarp
#

same way a bunker buster is better than a MOAB or "scalpel vs a hammer"

royal whale
#

Big number means you get more space to put more stuff, so yes it does matter

faint escarp
#

šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø

royal whale
last anchor
#

The Scorpions cannon is an electrochemical accelerated smoothbore.

royal whale
#

Big silhouette

last anchor
#

Presumably the small size of the round allows it to have terrifying penetrating power when fired, similar to how the Stanchion, despite having ammo the same size as a modern M4, can rip through an entire vehicle and its three human occupants

royal whale
#

Four different sets of tracks with iirc an engine each

last anchor
#

Well, the M820 does, not sure about the previous M808 models.

royal whale
#

Crew of two

royal whale
last anchor
#

See this wouldnt be an issue if someone would admit that the Scorpions not an MBT, its a lighter air-transportable tank designed to aid Marine forces rapidly
But no its gotta be an MBT for some reason, rather than making the GRIZZLEY the MBT

royal whale
#

Plus bigger guns means more explosive power which allows heavier projectiles = more energy

royal whale
last anchor
#

Its 66 tons as it is so its already light for a tank.

royal whale
#

Actually no

#

That's heavier than most MBTs of today

#

Abrams iirc is around the 50 ton mark

faint escarp
#
  1. Larger cannon = more weight = more armor to protect the increase in size to compensate moving that weight = larger silhouette = slower tank = more vulnerable & less versatile
  2. Larger cannon = larger explosive 'load' but not necessarily more penetrating power (e.g scalpel vs hammer)
  3. larger cannon = more expensive = potential for loss/damage of that weapon on a tank is far worse vs smaller tank cannon that can fire the same volume of "explosive load" downrange and be more versatile.

this is why conventional forces typically dont use abrams tanks unless absolutely necessary. too expensive to replace and bradleys/strkyers/MRAPS are more versatile and cheaper to replace.

#

benefits don't outweigh the drawbacks

unique rune
#

At the end of the day all these specs are nonsense made to make things sound and look cool mostly handwaved by ā€œfuture science tech dudeā€ and gameplay conceits to not make operating a tank a three-player ordeal

last anchor
#

Also when your enemy is literally throwing SUNS at you from their armored vehicle...

royal whale
#

So you're telling me with this logic a 20mm cannon could have more penetration than a 105mm

last anchor
#

For gameplay purposes, sure

#

Same way you can kill a Wraith with enough concentrated frontal firepower from a Warthog, despite the Wraith supposedly having 2 foot thick space-armor

#

No, seriously, the Encyclopedia confirms; the front armor on a wraith is 2 feet thick

royal whale
#

What good is a cheap tank if it just gets obliterated every now and then

unique rune
royal whale
faint escarp
#

there extreme nuance in terms of fighting capabilities of armored vehicles.

last anchor
#

If nothing else the new Encylopedia sure showed how the Covenant operate and its insane to me how disseperate their forces WERE

royal whale
#

Again expensive weapons are worthwhile since quality is what keeps it alive therefore you save more on money because less attrition

last anchor
#

That and the hatch will always be one of the weakest parts of a tank, it has to be to get in and out.

#

Unless your the Forerunners in which case you just TELEPORT into the Pheaton

#

Im still trying to figure out what the heck "90mm of tungeston" means.
So is that a 90mm tungston penetrator?

#

If thats the case why the splash damage?

faint escarp
#

**larger explosive load ā‰  smaller, higher penetration explosive load **

royal whale
last anchor
#

Actually theres an idea, the M820 has basically a chemically started railgun for its main weapon.
Under-caliber sabot accelerated...

royal whale
faint escarp
#

you're using extreme comparisons to try and prove us wrong but you can easily compare modern vehicles to explain the simple reason why larger cannon isn't always better. in fact its almost never better

last anchor
#

Mmm. Tank nerds.

faint escarp
#

that's a straw man fallacy @royal whale

royal whale
last anchor
#

No one does, and probably for the reason we're here right now because theres certain things that most of the fanbase could care less about

#

And the writers dont wanna devote time to it.

royal whale
faint escarp
royal whale
#

90mm is too smol for a 66 ton vehicle

royal whale
faint escarp
#

majority of times it does. which is why we don't generally carry more nukes vs hellfires, bunker busters, "smart bombs"

#

šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø

royal whale
#

You're using a scalpel for a hammer which is an MBT that should be able to do most roles and that includes soft factors something which tiny 90mm definitely would be outclassed by guns of larger caliber

faint escarp
#

do some research on REAL modern military armaments and vehicles before you try and ask a question and then argue with anyone as if you are an expert and everyone else is wrong.

#

especially if you are the one asking the question.... why are you asking it if we are all the idiots and you the expert??

royal whale
#

Nukes are morr like scalpels man

last anchor
#

A NUKE IS NOT A SCALPLE

royal whale
#

You can't just use them on anything you want

last anchor
#

Tell that to the UNSC over Far Isle heheheheh

faint escarp
#

šŸ˜‚

royal whale
last anchor
#

Planetary uprising
NUKE IT

royal whale
#

Plus a lot has to be considered before you use a nuke in real world applications

last anchor
#

Ah but we're not talking about our world, we're discussing Halo

royal whale
last anchor
#

...I guess compairing modern military equipment to future tech really is kind of pointless so

faint escarp
#

@last anchor just save your time. obviously he has no idea what he's talking about and trying to just justify his own opinion despite any rational thinking/evidence of even remotely relevant modern vehicle/arms....... as if its an echo chamber.

royal whale
#

Now explain to me what is thr true purpose of the military smirkle

faint escarp
#

yea... you're a troll.

royal whale
#

Explain it cause I have an answer

last anchor
#

Mmm.
Pity we wont see any more Hannable vehicles, I wanna see a Scorpion mounting a chopped down Onager

#

Track-portable mass driver. Talk about terrifying.

royal whale
#

Based

last anchor
#

Or if not that then like...an Ontos lookin' Scorpion with sixteen M68s on its turet

royal whale
#

Wait that's the mammoth right

last anchor
#

Yes

#

But the Mammoth is a "siegework", a vehicle designed for long range bombardment, coordination and defense.

royal whale
last anchor
#

More a rolling base with a railgun on top because why not than a dedicated mass driver strike vehicle.

#

TBH I'd love one of the variations we got from the Encyclopedia in game too

#

Like the Sand Devil

#

Or the one with the MLRS

royal whale
#

Does the UNSC use recoilless rifles or no?

last anchor
#

Presumably, though what counts as one and what doesnt has become flexible by this point

#

IE; the M57 Pilum sure looks like a recoilless rifle to me but its listed as a "rocket launcher"

#

For the most part though, no, Im fairly certain they've moved beyond that for ordinance systems. Smart weaponrys taken that job over

#

If they can make a man-portable system capable of firing twin 102mm explosives, they're not gonna need a recoilless

royal whale
#

Spnkr is an odd one as well tbh

#

It makes sense as a manpad but anti tank not really

#

I mean it helps, but too clunky

last anchor
#

Your thinking of the M19-B SAM

royal whale
#

Well everything in halo looks clunky anyways so not that it matters

royal whale
#

I just call it spnker

unique rune
#

Technically the Spartan Laser is classified as a ā€œrifleā€ and should be recoilless, but, uh.

royal whale
#

Animation

hazy shadow
#

All the weapons are Spartan scale instead of human scale anyways, so a lot of things are way off from where they should be.

royal whale
#

You sure about that?

#

Would be odd to arm majority of your army with oversized ergonomics

#

But eh big gun look better

last anchor
#

Gameplay models dont equate to in canon models

hazy shadow
#

It was game design thing, not a realism thing. It's most noticeable in CE, but still visible in later titles.

royal whale
#

Also bigger bullet better for things that have shields

last anchor
#

Interestingly, in Reach you can see the handguard for the DMR is too small for your Spartans hand, their pinky sticks out of the grip

royal whale
#

The big guns are realistic tbh, but I don't wanna say its spartan sized when iirc these weapons weren't designed mostly for spartans

last anchor
#

They werent designed but "upscaled" models of most do exist

#

For the most part though its not really an issue since Spartan hands arent that much larger than normal humans

royal whale
#

Wonder if they have a 50 cal assault rifle lmao

#

A spartan shouldn't have trouble with recoil and the weight associated with such a weapon

hazy shadow
#

Just the sniper right now IIRC.

royal whale
#

You guys know of the real life halo sniper rifle lmao

#

Some south african (could be Kenya) rifle iirc

last anchor
#

MTF 20 I believe yes

#

Albiet again, naming in game is incorrect.

#

Its even refered to as an anti material rifle

unique rune
#

Denel NTW-20

last anchor
#

ALMOST had it

royal whale
#

Man you do remember a lot of names

#

Usually I just have a mental image of stuff together with a brief summary

last anchor
#

When youve been a fan for 20 years you kind of just sink into this.
Also it helps to dunk on nerds who have never cracked a book when they come up with something real odd.

royal whale
#

I never cranked up a book on halo, just the wiki pages lmao

unique rune
#

Remembering names is helpful when so much of the stuff driving this series is "ominous sounding word but capitalized".

royal whale
#

ONI

#

Idk I really like ONIs logo

unique rune
#

In ONI's case I think that's more just pure coincidence than anything, since they pretty much directly parallel the United States Navy's own Office of Naval Intelligence.

royal whale
#

We also have a UNSC

unique rune
#

But between everything like the Forerunners, the Halos, the Ark, the Covenant, the Banished, the Arbiter, the Endless, etc, etc.
Good lord explaining things to people can be messy.

royal whale
#

Just UN security council which imo sounds a lotta boring

faint escarp
royal whale
#

Aren't anti materiel weapons generally classified as the ability to take down light vehicles?

unique rune
#

I assume it's because whoever is writing that stuff up isn't aware that there's a difference between "material" and "materiel" and just assumes the latter is a typo.

last anchor
#

Most of the guns in CE were named based on game usage rather than actual lore anyway and it just stuck from there.

faint escarp
#

yes. that's what they are designed for. not 'anti-personnel'... LOL

last anchor
#

And yet it took us till Reach for the Sniper to actually do vehicle damage hilariously enough.

faint escarp
#

šŸ˜‚

royal whale
#

Pretty sure in Halo 2 the sniper destroys ghosts really well, or idk faulty memory

unique rune
#

If you nail the little pod thing on the side it's pretty much a guaranteed kill, otherwise I'm pretty sure its vehicle damage is insignificant

royal whale
#

Banshees as well

royal whale
faint escarp
# unique rune It was a pragmatic but ultimately somewhat naive and doomed plan.

BTW (Iā€™ve been gone a couple days and I saw your reply just today) even with a raw deal the UNSC gave the innies being willing to sell out your species to the Covenant (who surely would wipe out the entire human species) if it meant that you could be the rulers of whatever is left is not better than authoritarian space government. Thats an example of the complete lack of restraint I was talking about vs UNSCā€™s cherry-picking restraint.

stable flower
#

I wonder how much controversy the UNSC got for issuing an anti-materiƩl rifle to its troops.

unique rune
#

The Covenant's goal of "kill all of humanity" wasn't widely known and at the time Insurrection leadership had just assumed that it was something the UNSC specifically did that pissed them off.
Hell, there were even people within the Insurrection who still thought the Covenant was all just some UNSC conspiracy to give them an excuse to more strongly exert control over the colonies, if I remember correctly.

#

We as external observers to all this media know about the whole "your destruction is the will of the gods" hoo-hah, but you have to remember that message wasn't something broadcasted across all of human space.

#

And as far as we know, the UNSC was pretty good at controlling the spread of information, even on planets actively being invaded by the Covenant, like on Meridian in 2548.

#

The Insurrection saw the Covenant as a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" opportunity simply because they didn't know any better.

faint escarp
unique rune
#

ā€¦Is it really worse than ā€œnuke the revoltersā€ UNSC?

Insurrectionist cells saw it as an opportunity to see the UNSC get knocked down a peg so they could get what they wanted. As far as they were concerned, selling out their oppressors to an enemy that seemed open to negotiations was probably no worse than the UNSCā€™s complete refusal to negotiate and reach any sort of compromise.

stable flower
#

I wonder if different insurrectionist groups had rivalries with each other

unique rune
#

I would imagine there might've been some but their goals being broadly aligned meant that acting on it was never beneficial to them.

faint escarp
#

I'm just talking about even if they didn't know about the covenant, they still have multiple incidents where they would outright kill innocents civilians in the process of attacking the UNSC and didn't care as long as the UNSC being damaged. Out of the choice of the two evils - the UNSC is by far the lesser of two evil when they started the Spartan Program.

#

At least - even with an authoritarian government - if they had their way atleast women, children and families would have lived at the sacrifice of a few children to create the Spartan Program vs Innies ethos of "everything is permitted. there is no line limit."

unique rune
#

The UNSC were the ones who passed that line first by razing an entire colony with nuclear weapons.

gilded mason
#

^

faint escarp
#

But is that worse than being willing to kill everyone in the galaxy as long as the UNSC are gone??

unique rune
#

The fact that the UNSC had to resort to the Spartan program in the first place is arguably reason enough to say they were worse. The UNSC and UEG had numerous opportunities to just open up negotiations and reach some kind of peaceful resolution, but they picked up the Carver findings and ran with them, turning them into a self-fulfilling prophecy of destabilization.

gilded mason
#

The difference between the UNSC and Insurrectionists is that there's no one Innie group, there's multitude, so many Innies are innocent of the sins of others. This is not the case at all with the UNSC.

unique rune
#

The Insurrection's goal broadly wasn't to eradicate the UNSC entirely, they just wanted them to back off and let them be.

faint escarp
#

That's why the Spartan program was created. To stop the ideology of "if it requires the death of human race to get rid of UNSC, so be it"

#

to end the war before it got to that point

gilded mason
#

The UNSC started it by refusing to help the Outer Colonies' problems

faint escarp
#

it doesnt matter who started it.

#

if it end the human race - its the worst option possible.

unique rune
#

The war only got to "that point" because of projects like ORION and SPARTAN

gilded mason
#

So at that point, somethin had to give. And the Outer Colonies saw that the UNSC wasn't willing to change by choice.

faint escarp
#

And some of the incidents where Innies attacked the UNSC - it was suicidal with no regard if it became genocidal.

gilded mason
#

The difference between the UNSC and Insurrectionists is that there's no one Innie group, there's multitude, so many Innies are innocent of the sins of others. This is not the case at all with the UNSC.

stable flower
#

Some groups are strictly rebels, while others are terrorists.

faint escarp
# stable flower Some groups are strictly rebels, while others are terrorists.

This is kind of my point. Everyone says the Spartan Program was an apalling, horrific act by the UNSC. Yes, true but.. when the Human-Covenant war eventually gets worse and changes into UNSC vs rebel-like factions of the Innies to mostly terrorist-style Innies vs UNSC... The Spartan Program seems to be an easy choice in the lesser of two evils.

unique rune
#

I mean the problem here is that a project like SPARTAN shows that the UNSC would rather develop procedures to turn people (children, no less) into terror weapons given human form than just sit down and talk. That is not a sign of a healthy or ethically sound governing body.

faint escarp
#

Agreed. But that wasn't anything new. Its because of that kind of mentality, that started the war between UNSC and Innies.

royal whale
#

We do this all the time

stable flower
#

I mean as the premiere sniper rifle for the military.

royal whale
#

I mean the covies are armored so it makes sense

#

It'd be controversial to issue weapons which don't the job

stable flower
#

They weren't exactly made to fight the Covenant though

royal whale
#

If big gun kill then good

regal spade
#

Planes, tanks, artillery, ships, etc. All use a weapon caliber of 12.7mm or larger.

#

In practice, just as or more powerful than the anti-material rifle.

#

Any controversy surrounding the usage is effectively the same as how Germany was and perhaps still is with shotguns.

regal spade
royal whale
royal whale
sullen ridge
#

eh innies weren't saints either

#

they still acted out terrorist attacks on civilian targets

unique rune
#

Insurrectionists arenā€™t exactly ā€œgoodā€ but the whole point is more that the UNSC arenā€™t the squeaky clean heroes that we tend to see them as in the games.

royal whale
#

Based opinion

#

The moment when you finally get to sneak out of your parent's house just to have your clone melt away chiefsmirkle

last anchor
# royal whale What

During WWI, the M1897 trench gun was so brutally effective for its intended use Germany tried to get it banned as a warcrime because the Americans were slamfiring their way to victory through their trenches with impunity.

In response the Americans told them they'd stop using the shotgun if the Germans stopped using chemical weapons (or something similar I forget exactly how it went)