halo-discussion

[short flower]

Cindershot and M41 SPNKr/Tracker my most beloved.

[solid canopy]

There is just leaks and reports from certain individuals nothing official

Honestly I am most concerned about how things are behind the scenes with that anonymous quote a developer gave to journalists and Glenn Israel, an artist who has been a part of the series since ODST, leaving the studio and making reference to having some sort of line being crossed

[dense ice]

So will Master Chief ||just straight up not have a grapple hook or cool gadgets because he gave them up in the book? ||

[cyan forum]

This would be hilarious but also painfully typical

Sidenote they really need to stop using books as a basis for their stories. Its not working. It never worked to begin with 😔

[solid canopy]

Oh because First Strike totally didn't happen between CE and 2

I don't mind them fleshing out the world with the books like they did with the Forerunner Trilogy or Kilo-Five Trilogy, it is all a question of how they use it

[onyx latch]

Horvath already had a grapple in Rubicon Protocol, it broke while he was fighting the Banished.

These are equipments every Spartan has access to, they were never Chief-specific.

[solid canopy]

Halo 5 fumbled in this regard because of how little the books actually informed the story

[cyan forum]

First strike was completely skippabable

I know i did

[onyx latch]

Oh boy can't wait for that stupid argument to show up again

[cyan forum]

Funny enough i actually did eventually read the book years later. I forgot almost everything about it except for my boi Locklear

[onyx latch]

I love this Sisyphian hell called Halo

[solid canopy]

The game does so little with its characters (with the exception of Cortana or Chief ig) that it does feel like you are missing something

[onyx latch]

I LOVE THIS SISYPHIAN HELL

[cyan forum]

Halo 5 is kinda busted even with all the book knowledge to begin with

[onyx latch]

WHERE I HAVE TO EXTOLL WHAT IT DID RIGHT AGAIN

[cyan forum]

Save the hissy fit

[onyx latch]

Or not, I might just get bored and ignore this instead.

[solid canopy]

Halo 4 did an okay job with translating the lore of the Forerunner Trilogy and Kilo-Five (granted those stories weren't finished at the time of Halo 4's release iirc)

[cyan forum]

It wasnt exactly well received either

The scene with the librarian is quite infamous

[solid canopy]

I think really Halo 4 just needed more space to actually introduce the concepts and worldbuilding of the books

[onyx latch]

Halo fans are rubes and 343i overestimated how much fans actually care about the story.

[solid canopy]

It wasn't recived poorly either

[onyx latch]

Simple as.

[solid canopy]

In some ways, yes. In others, no.

[onyx latch]

Actually, no, belay that, they underestimated the amount of basic critical literacy that was present, when more is apparently required to understand a game about dementia and sacrifice.

[solid canopy]

Plenty of fans enjoyed 4's story

[cyan forum]

But again, it all just comes down to not having to rely on books to understand a story. Books are supposed to be a compliment, not a substitute

[onyx latch]

NGL I wish Halo fans were capable of actually reading a damn book for once. Maybe they should include more pictures in the books. Free coloring book and crayons.

[cyan forum]

Star Wars kinda makes this mistake too, tho its also a lot more careless with an even bigger amount of retcons for that franchise lol

[onyx latch]

"I have to read a book to understand this"

Yes, you have to read a book to understand most things, it's called being a functional human being in the 21st century.

[solid canopy]

Not everyone, but it was far more appreciated than 5. A lot of the stuff was exciting for a lot of fans

[cyan forum]

If its divisive then its still not well received like youre making it sound

[solid canopy]

Bungie didn't really care about the books, and seeing 343i take more care into incorporating the wider universe into the games

[onyx latch]

Seriously, it's like jumping to the last chapter and being confused because some guy mentioned in the dust cover is suddenly a bad guy. Maybe if you actually cared to read the story you'd know better.

[solid canopy]

Look at any review that isn't the bogstandard "Halo video that starts with Never Forget playing and a comment about how Halo is special"

[cyan forum]

Im under no illusion that bungie are perfect storytellers but man i miss those guys 😔

They prioritized fun more than anything else

[onyx latch]

"Prioritize fun"

Buddy they didn't even understand how to prioritize making a game

[cyan forum]

Unrelated but i wonder when that Halo 2 rebalanced mod is finally coming out. That looks sooo perfect 🙏

[solid canopy]

5's storytelling is still very weak for me. I don't even think the books are to blame for how empty so many characters are IN THE GAME and how many plotpoints it crams into one game

[onyx latch]

Bungie Halo is the "jingling keys in front of a baby" of the Halo franchise

[onyx latch]

I don't care, people need to read more.

[solid canopy]

Sure but that is a separate issue than "Halo 5's writing is poor"

[cyan forum]

Its a shame cuz tbh i never hated Locke, even as i saw him point a gun at the chief, i always thought he was dark and mysterious and cool

But then the game does nothing with him

And now hes probably dead in infinite

[solid canopy]

As underwealming of a fight the Locke and Chief brawl was, Locke pointing his pistol right at Chief but being unable to move because of the armor lock was pretty sweet

Very good "almost had him" energy

[cyan forum]

Tbh they didnt even need to fight in some lame boss fight or anything. Chief and arbiter never fought onscreen either

But the context made their meeting interesting

Sad that Halo 3 downplayed the arbiter's role but no where near on the same level as what Infinite did to Locke

[solid canopy]

It is funny in retrospect how Chief and Arby meet once in Halo 2 and say like two words to one another

[cyan forum]

Its better for it. Halos focus was never supposed to be a man vs man kinda story

Its why escharums story with the chief is so...... unexciting

And putting atriox in the mix probably wouldnt have fixed much tbh. The rest of the halo 5 cast shouldve stuck around

[solid canopy]

No? The story is unexciting because Halo Infinite's structure doesn't support it. Not because of the "Man vs Man" type of story

[hexed oasis]

I think they took them out because so many people didn't like them

[cyan forum]

Yea

It was basically a repeat of 3's rushed narrative but worse

[solid canopy]

Not really?

3's story is a third act streached out by a team of non-writers

[cyan forum]

No i think its absolutely because they chose that kinda plot. Halo 2 still sticks out because of the various characters and political intrigue and all that stuff. It was NEVER just a dumb story about green man vs alien or alien vs bigger alien

[solid canopy]

Halo CE is quite litterally about "Green man VS alien(s)"

[cyan forum]

Even Halo 1 is not that small scale, its not the chief's story as much as its the story about the crew of the entire pillar of autumn

When nearly everyone dies, those losses are totally felt

[solid canopy]

Having a centeral antagonist for the player to directly fight is not a "betrayal" of Halo's formula or whatever

[cyan forum]

I never said that

[solid canopy]

^

"Never supposed to be"

[cyan forum]

I said focusing on that was its problem

[solid canopy]

Except Infinite didn't focus on it

That is the problem!

[cyan forum]

Cuz yeah, arbiter unmistakably has a rivalry with tartarus, but its not the main focus

Arbiters main conflict is with truth (a non combatant) and with his beliefs as a whole

[solid canopy]

Except the game ends with you fighting him and the most emotionally important moment in Bungie's original trilogy

[cyan forum]

Tartarus was merely a footnote

If escharum and his spartan killers were part of a much larger story with the halo 5 cast still around, they wouldve been a lot more memorable me thinks

But theyre the main course. They served us french fries and told us it was a steak dinner

[cyan forum]

He dies and is never referred to ever again

[solid canopy]

Infinite's structure of "go complete task, incoming call of Samurai Monkey, go do next task" doesn't let us really get to have Escharum's character more directly impact us. If

[solid canopy]

That is more the fault of Halo 3's lack of writing, not Halo 2

[cyan forum]

I wouldnt call that a fault. Tartarus was not significant enough to be worth mentioning again

[solid canopy]

Honestly, I would've kept Tartarus alive in Halo 3 to allow the Brutes have more focus

[cyan forum]

Like im sure escharum wont be referred to again either in the next game 🤷‍♀️

[solid canopy]

I very much doubt that will be the case with how Edge Of Dawn goes

[cyan forum]

I would have liked this too tbh but thats merely a different direction rather than a better one

[solid canopy]

But once again, I think you are really underselling Tartarus' importance in the narrative of Halo 2

A "footnote" implies he is barely in the game with little consequence

When he is there from the opening scenes of the game to it's closing level

Serves to give us direct insight into the nature of the Covenant and flesh out the Arbiter's story

And his character is continuously made reference to in canon with stories like Empty Throne, Contact Harvest, and i think Rise of Atriox?

[cyan forum]

Tartarus is literally there just to remind Arbiter of his shamed status and deranked position and as the story progresses, he becomes a personification of Truth's lies and delusions.

Hes not a significant political leader, hes a dumb brute commander

[rigid trench]

Tartarus is also a direct foil to Arby. He’s a member of the Covenant too blinded by dogma to understand that what the Prophets are doing will harm them all. He’s too busy chasing glory & status. OTOH, Arby had glory, status and dogma, but after his public display of contempt, and after spending time as a figure intended to die for the Covenant, he wakes up to what’s happening & becomes a major figure in the schism that ultimately helps ends the war & deal with the threat of the Halos firing

[cyan forum]

Exactly

Hes fulfills his purpose in the end. When he dies, so does Arbiter's warped perception of his beliefs and even universe as a whole

[rigid trench]

It also helps that Tartarus is a Brute; the very species chosen by the Prophets to usurp the Elites because they don’t ask as many questions

[cyan forum]

Sidenote, i really like that one cut piece of dialogue in Halo 2 where Arbiter actually refers to his crimes against humanity. That shouldve stayed for Halo 3 tbh

I love the elites but always felt they got off too easy for what they did

[solid canopy]

There is also the fact that it is hinted towards that Tartarus cares less about the Great Journey and more about the standing of the Brutes/his hatred of the Elites

[rigid trench]

Oh without question, homie can’t see the forest for the trees & literally enacts a genocide & a civil war for a promotion like a weak-willed roach

[cyan forum]

Even more reason as to why he was never the center of it all. Halo can have man vs man conflicts but it shouldnt be the main focus. Its a scifi military story, not capeslop

[solid canopy]

Why did he enact said genocide & civil war? Because of how the Brutes have been treated within the Covenant and his open distain for the Elites who did it to him

It is more than just him being a "dumb Brute"

[cyan forum]

Tbh this is prolly another reason why Halo 5s story didnt work either, it focuses too hard on the chief and his drama with cortana and not even done well to begin with

[rigid trench]

And yet in the face of direct evidence from a monitor, an oracle from his gods, about the true nature of what he was about to do to the galaxy, he attempted to do it anyway out of a need to one up the Elites.

[cyan forum]

As a result, most of the cast now feel like a footnote and it shows with infinite

[solid canopy]

Because he driven by revenge/"justice" for his kind

[cyan forum]

What happened to locke? Who cares, cortana barely knew him 🤷‍♀️

[rigid trench]

I don’t think even Infinite cared about Locke.

“Oh, the secondary protag from H5? Just put his helmet on some mid Brute boss’s shoulder armor, no one’s gonna care anyway if we kill him offscreen”

[cyan forum]

Its because hes a near-sighted servant, a dumb brute ☝️

[rigid trench]

Can concur, Tartarus be a dumb lapdog for the theocracy

[cyan forum]

And notice how that doesn't even noticeably damage Infinites story, its because poor Locke was never the focus to begin with despite being billed as a protag

Imagine if they removed Arbiter from Halo 3 ALTOGETHER. That would have made the story visibly worse

[rigid trench]

Clearly not all Brutes are dumb (the two main Banished antagonists of Infinite show as much), but Tartarus be willfully ignorant af

[solid canopy]

Halo 2 didn't have the reception of Halo 5

That is why

[cyan forum]

Atriox exists as an intelligent leader too so yeah, brutes can be smarter characters

Tartarus just isnt one of them

Hes too lost in the delusions

[rigid trench]

To be clear, I’m criticizing 343’s storytelling. I honestly wouldn’t care if Locke died or not. I just think that, if you as a studio introduce a playable character in a prior game & attach some degree of importance on them, you should at least make their death explicit & not an Easter egg

[cyan forum]

As otto pointed out, it wouldve been cool to see him in Halo 3 or at least introduce a minor brute character to share scenes with the prophets. Our timeline aint perfect though 😔

[rigid trench]

True

[cyan forum]

Absolutely

[rigid trench]

But I’m still grateful for the Bungie run of Halo titles

Arguably a near perfect showing for a major game franchise

[cyan forum]

Halo 3 is disappointing in many ways but i still enjoy it. Its a top tier blockbuster action film

[rigid trench]

I can see it’s faults. But even as someone who grew up with the original run, I can appreciate H3 as a satisfying sendoff to the Chief’s story & the war he fought in

… which was what was intended

[cyan forum]

Many of the trailers at the time teased the chiefs death

But having him stranded in space in cryosleep is kind of a clever subversion of that

[rigid trench]

Tbh I kinda loved that the trilogy ended back where it started

Back inside of a ship in space, in stasis, unsure of where they even are

[cyan forum]

Its like poetry

It rhymes 😏

[rigid trench]

https://tenor.com/view/i-hate-sand-gif-2743302484875254134

Dang, no gif privileges lol

Oh well, I’ll eat the L on that one

[frozen junco]

hello people, I'm new and was interested what y'all's favorite Halo game is?

mine is Reach.

[solid canopy]

Overall? Halo 3 ODST
Story? Halo 2 or Halo 4

[frozen junco]

funny, ODST is honestly my least favorite, I did really enjoy the last couple levels.

ODST feels like the blueprint for Reach

[shadow turret]

For campaign, Reach or 4
For MP, Infinite by far

[cyan forum]

Storywise Halo 2, campaign gameplay wise Halo CE, multiplayer goes to Halo 3

Tho Halo 5's multiplayer deserves an honorable mention

[kind rose]

i would say halo infinite is a great multiplayer but ive not played it in like years

[solid canopy]

Fels less like a blueprint for Reach and more like them solidifying Halo 3's gameplay loop

To me at least

[cyan forum]

Random question but would it be too much to ask for the next game to allow us to pick what kind of armor chief wears during the campaign?

Im not asking for something like reach with the multiplayer spartans, i mean like what if i want to rock the CE armor?

[sturdy kernel]

Maybe the same armour as in infinite campaign

[cyan forum]

Or even Halo 4's armor?

[cyan forum]

This will likely be the default yeh

[sturdy kernel]

I guess in the jungle the UNSC survivors don't have the armour thing, can't remember how it was correctly named, but yeah
Same armour as it was in infinite campaign

[kind rose]

well the issue can come down to many things

Most from what I assume probably comes down to cutscenes and lore reasons holding it back

I think it be cool to wear diff armor in campaign but seems more up to writer integrity

[cyan forum]

Maybe for new game plus? Writers integrity shouldnt be that big of a deal, the covenant/banished say goofy things and even break the fourth wall frequently, i dont think it would damage my immersion to see halo 4 chief in the cutscenes of halo 7

I think itd be fun

[kind rose]

i also like when Doom does allow skins and they show up in cutscenes

makes everytime I replay pretty funny or baddass

[cyan forum]

A lot of other franchises in general allow alternate skins. Doom, Nier, Dead Space, Sonic, Mario, let the chief have some fun too

[true root]

Hey spartans

[solid canopy]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/oOk3dw

I don't think these designs quite fit the Forerunners, but I do think they are awesome and should be used in a different project

They have such a cool, twisted look to them that I'd hate to see them collecting dust

They'd work great in a proper horror game

It is very interesting seeing the design of the Knights evolve over time and even designs as drastically different as these still have parts where you can see the final design take shape

[shadow turret]

Like you said
maybe for subsequent playthroughs
But overall it wouldn't work due to lore.
Chief has the Mark VI Gen III, and there's not really an opportunity to change it with anything besides another Spartans Mark VII really, which I doubt he'd do anyway

But overall, as much as it'd be cool, and honestly even with Infinite I think it'd be a neat Easter egg that if you're Hero you have the option to use your Chief kit in campaign, it just wouldn't work with the lore, and would pull people too far out of the story I think
Again, at least for a first playthrough

[shadow turret]

The reason there's goofy NPC voicelines, especially from Infinite's propaganda grunt is for comic relief
A lot of games do it tbh
And it's usually just that and nothing more to it for meaning rly

[civic sundial]

Honestly, if we're gonna have character customisation in a campaign, I'd rather just play as my multiplayer Spartan, like in Reach

[solid canopy]

Fireteam Crimson will return in Avengers Doomsday

[shadow turret]

This tbh
Though I do have my own issues with this premise coming back

[civic sundial]

It's a tricky one because it would mean writing a story where the lead character is very much just a blank slate who barely says anything and is basically just there to kill things

Which is basically how the Guardian/The Fated Weapon/The Young Wolf in Destiny and Destiny 2 is. To the point that really, the main character is really your Ghost

At least when Ghost is voiced in said expansion (Renegades doesn't have Ghost say anything for the whole story, just like Dark Below and House of Wolves in Destiny 1)

But it kinda works there because the Guardians are kinda weird undead people who mainly exist to kill

Spartans, while yes have a similar purpose, are very much meant to be people still. Like, Chief is still a person in Combat Evolved, he has motives which we can easily understand

[shadow turret]

Part of my issue with it is that especially with Infinite, a lot of people (myself included to a point) have made lore and backstories for the Spartans they play, that if in the next MP they're kinda, meant to be the "same" Spartans, if you play as them in campaign, I feel like it takes away a bit of that storytelling other people have made from their character

[civic sundial]

Aye, which is fair, especially at this point where we really don't know what will happen come the next multiplayer title

Plus like, I enjoy having someone who we play as that is an actual character in universe who we understand

Which isn't to say you can't get that with silent protagonists or anything (Which Halo only truly had with Rookie), it's just the way you get that across is different to a fully voiced protagonist like your Lara Crofts or your Kratos'. But you look at stuff like Destiny or Crimson in Spartan Ops, you really aren't playing as a character, more an avatar who happens to be there to kill stuff while everyone else yaps on the radio

Also like, there's plenty of already existing characters who would work as a new face for Halo

[solid canopy]

Man, if they don't play To Galaxy, Green and Blue, or 117 at that Halo concert I'm gonna be pretty peeved

[glacial tartan]

Why not support your currently existing multiplayer titles I dont get it 😭

[solid canopy]

I'd hate for them to exclude Davidge and Jannuchi's work

[shadow turret]

Honestly, sorta to that point
I'd love to see spin-off type games where we play as, say, an ONI Headhunter, with a game style similar to Hitman or sumn
Or have a proper War Thunder esque game with air and ground vehicle combat
And things like that

[civic sundial]

I play Infinite on the regular, but considering it's not getting any new content for the foreseeable future like what we've had over the past year. It's only fair to speculate about what the next MP game is and how it'll handle things

[civic sundial]

ONI Hitman sounds fun

[glacial tartan]

I get that from a players perspective, I meant from the company's

[civic sundial]

I still hope for my Halo GTA clone set in High Charity

[glacial tartan]

It seems odd to give no future roadmap for multiplayer and simultaneously not support what you already have. Theres a reason people arent playing MP, they'll all just leave and wait and have fun w/ something else, and may never come back

[rotund zenith]

with the star wars xcom-like coming out at some point itd be neat to get a halo one too. may have to load up xcom2 this weekend and see if its gotten any closer to total conversion territory on the halo front

[solid canopy]

I badly want a Battlefront style game that lets players get to fight as all the different species or use all the different weapons and vehicles in ways a traditional Halo game doesn't always allow

[civic sundial]

Not really. And you're acting like Infinite was never given any support, even though it has been. The decision to not add in new content like weapons, vehicles, equipment, store bundles, etc. is a sign they want the studio to focus on newer projects, not an old one which has been out for 4 years and received more support than most of us expected within that last year

[sleek hatch]

I would put good money on a bet, that he is talking about MCC as well.

[civic sundial]

MCC was never planned to be supported with new stuff until the end of time

[sleek hatch]

You think they would since it has more players than infinite.

[sullen owl]

XCom-like, Battlefront-like, and a starfighter game, those are all I want. Those three things, Halo Studios.

[civic sundial]

It's a collection of six games, Infinite is only one game. But again, MCC was not planned to be supported with new things indefinitely. There are definitely things I wish were added which weren't, but let's not pretend like MCC was meant to be a live service or anything

[sleek hatch]

I don't think "it's a collection of 6 games," is why there are more people on it than Infinite.
However, I am not asking for live support but support for Quality of life things.
Panda could elaborate further. If he wants to.

[glacial tartan]

I am describing the next year+. And you may be misunderstanding me.

Its great that a new multiplayer experience will eventually happen. But why not actively do some support on the multiplayer aspect of your games that people are still participating in?

Nobody is asking for new content indefinitely. You can recycle old content. My question is why do nothing

The forge community playlist hasnt rotated in on MCC in....4+ YEARS? The exchange and playlist rotations totally broke in September....with no explanation?

[solid canopy]

I'd just like if MCC got the bug fixes it needed + a port to PS5

[glacial tartan]

Like....Yeah I dont need new weapons. But maybe a double XP weekend every couple of YEARS would be nice? 😄

[solid canopy]

Yeah, basic support and rotation updates is all I'm really asking for

[glacial tartan]

The last double XP weekend in MCC was in 2023....before that it was 2021...and last I checked they are still selling the game

[solid canopy]

Digsite was killed in a particularly unpleasent fashion so there really isn't anything else to look forward to MCC content wise. The most I'd want is them to port over the remaining Halo Online maps

[sleek hatch]

That would be awesome...

[solid canopy]

But really, all I'm asking is they finish fixing the games and semi-regularly update the rotations

[glacial tartan]

Yes thats all I've mentioned for a few years. Same request for Infinite now, admittedly I'm less informed but hopefully that game gets playlist management too

[solid canopy]

I am still bitter about the treatment of Digsite

[glacial tartan]

It doesnt matter if MCC was 25 games, Infinites playerbase numbers are not acceptable. Well, they shouldnt be.

[rotund zenith]

Acecombat/projectwingman but halo would be peak

[compact marlin]

I hope Halo 7 makes Infinite's Forge even better, cause I love fighting alongside UNSC and Swords Of Sanghelios as my MP Spartan, or throw on some Banished Armor and fight alongside Banished Forces. So if Halo 7 has all of that and more to make Forge Campaigns then sign me up

[orchid stirrup]

Ai enemies and Friendlies PLEASE. 🥺

[ashen rune]

I really want allies to be less dumb. Enemies IDC about so much since I'm just shooting them in the head on sight lol

Idec if they die just as easily just behave less dumb while doing so

[lusty owl]

is it just me or does halo infinite matchmaking take forever

[signal ivy]

it's just you

[sleek hatch]

I have that same problem. What time do you usually play at and what time zone are you in?
It got so bad that when I played, I would be lucky to get a match in 1 hour with expanded on.

[lusty owl]

i usually play at like 9:30pm in eu time

[compact marlin]

I hope we get Spartan Ops again, and then we can use Forge to add on to the story

[cyan forum]

I just hope we get firefight at launch and with lots of expansion to it

Infinite already has some pretty nice ideas with the ability to summon friendly npcs 🙏

[sleek hatch]

We need a lot at launch lol

[cyan forum]

🙂‍↕️

Like i said this next game cant be another work in progress. They gotta stop regressing

[compact marlin]

Well, the good news is: Halo Studios is actually taking our feedback, this is confirmed by HiddenXperia

[compact marlin]

Except they were, each time we complained about something wrong with Halo, the old brand would actually change it and try and fix it, but people still complained. There are going to be haters no matter what happens, that's just a fandom

And you are comparing games that are older that's running on an engine as old as those games compared to a game that's newer and running on a 20 year old engine that can barely handle the game cause it was done by many different people who only had a short window to actually work on it. You are also doing an unfair comparison cause it is six games vs one, and most of them players are most likely blinded by nostalgia

Well, there are six Halo Games to play there, most players are blinded by nostalgia and don't want Halo to evolve and any game that has a bad launch is gonna do terrible. I also don't blame them for not wanting to play Infinite, but it's still a good game. Anyway, we're getting off topic, I believe we were talking about Halo Studios actually taking our feedback?

Except they're complaints don't make sense or have an easy work around

So, there are OG Fans complaining that Halo 1 is being remade again which is not the case. Halo 1 was remastered, but not rebuilt from the ground up on a new engine so there goes that argument

I understand

I find it funny that OG Fans blame 343 for adding Sprint when Bungie did it first with Halo Reach, it's even in Halo 2 just turned off. Also the Sprint and A.D.S features can be turned off in the settings if they don't want them. The final complaint are the Elites, but I'm sure those are all place holders, and to explain the pop ins, that is the engine, not the game

Yeah, they complain that they're Infinite Assets, but they're most definitely place holders. One of the few nitpicks I've heard is Cortana breathing, but that has been a thing I think since Reach, you hear it in 4, I think 5, and twice in Halo Wars 2

[celest heron]

nah, they definitely know bungie added sprint to reach first. the gripe with 343 is they kept it, but there were plenty of other things as well.

[compact marlin]

Halo 4 had no Elites cause they're weren't any sent to Requiem, and I don't think there were many on board, same with 5, and Infinite is because there are Swords Of Sanghelios on The Academy, but that might change with 7 since I think we're going to the joint training space station that has Spartans and Elites

[compact marlin]

Loadouts were also added by Bungie but, yeah I will admit 4 had it's problems, however it isn't bad once you get used to it

Exactly. Don't complain about a game until you play it yourself

[sleek hatch]

Slip Space had a lot of work done to it and a lot of games have a lot of different people working on it and actually have shorter windows.

[sleek hatch]

For real

[left snow]

If HS do end up remaking more games past CE - you would imagine each game would need less and less done to it to bring it up to modern standards.

Hopefully they can spend more time on adding extra missions!

But H3 fans are indeed a different beast - I can't wait for the meltdown when people see sprint in Halo 3. 😄

[sturdy kernel]

Sprint will be also included in halo CE remake

[valid smelt]

It’s probably been said over and over already but my hope one day is that we start to get more spinoff games (at least campaign wise) that center more around the events of the books/novels, I think they’d make for fantastic game premises if adapted correctly

[solid canopy]

I never did consider how insufferable people will be with Halo 2 and 3 remakes , but then again my main reason for not wanting remakes of 2 and 3 is purely because they'd be a distraction from making new projects + MCC also exists and the original trilogy is perfectly playable

[valid smelt]

Here’s to hoping, with the remakes after campaign evolved

You would think so

I’m rooting for their success, regardless

[solid canopy]

I think it really comes down to who is leading the team

You can have good tools and talented people, but it will all fall apart if the people at the top are doing a bad job

not like there isn't some reason to suspect so

[left snow]

Yep. And there has been a reasonable meltdown. But H3 will be exponential over that.

You would think so.

I imagine the next iteration of Multiplayer will either be some sort of stand alone service - or attached to Halo 7.

[left snow]

Halo tends to release in November. And this year is the 25th Anniversary. 🙂

[solid canopy]

Launching in November would be a death sentence

GTA VI is (supposedly) releasing on the 19th of November

Obviously with games like those, delays happen and have happened. But they'd be absolutely stupid to release CEmake anytime around then

Unless Rockstar changes the release date of GTA VI, I'd bet Campaign Evolved comes out late summer or very early fall

While I am somewhat cautiously optimistic about the remake, I would be lying if I said I don't see a scenario where this whole thing goes sideways (botched/glitchy release, internal termoil, bad press from shortsighted decisions, highly negative responce from fans of CE or original developers, ect.)

On some level, it feels like the deck is stacked against them

when has it not been

halo wars 2 probably

[left snow]

Maybe? I thought I saw somewhere that GTA may drift out into 2027.

[solid canopy]

November is the set release date as far as I know

[left snow]

The only area of concern would really be a negative responce from fans (or more pertinently - streamers) of CE.

I can see that escalating as we get closer - because that is the way it is. 🙁

But HS are probably just bracing themselves for that inevitable push back - and looking to expand their audience into new territories.

[left snow]

I guess they could release November 1st and still be 3 weeks pre-GTA (which is marked for the 19th).

Make November a celebration month for Halo.

Or they could wait until Dec for "Halo Fest" in December - about 3.5 weeks post GTA. But the risk there is that GTA gets delayed for a week or two.

[solid canopy]

I think November is firmly GTA VI month

Anything released in its radious is getting overshadowed

The only thing that could out do it is if Valve released Half-Life 3

[civic sundial]

You just know certain YouTubers within the Halo community will (And already are no doubt) make videos claiming everything is ruined over something extremely trivial and unimportant that's in the remake

[left snow]

I'm kind of over it - almost to the stage where I almost look forward to their cries of anguish.

[civic sundial]

Fair

[compact marlin]

Honestly? I agree, it's kind of funny watching them complain about wanting Bungie back and the "Old Halo" back, even though Halo changed when Bungie was in charge. I guarantee if Bungie ever did come back, the games wouldn't change

[civic sundial]

Bungie would've taken Halo in the direction they took with Destiny

[compact marlin]

Exactly, I think I'm starting to see why Bungie actually split from Microsoft, it really wouldn't surprise me if they honestly hated Halo and the Fans

[coarse dagger]

I don't think they hated Halo, I think they just had bigger plans and Halo wasn't a part of that. They didn't think it was going to be as big as it was, and didn't want to be tied down to that one IP forever. That's my take on it, at least

[compact marlin]

Fair, and Halo is still better then Destiny. Halo practically raised me and taught me about betrayal, religion, aliens and war better then anything else could. It was the first game series where I would willingly watch cutscenes as a child

[civic sundial]

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft only wanted them to make Halo games after the series took off. Which is understandable from a business standpoint

But like, so many other big studios in the industry are given the freedom to make multiple franchises, even when it is a big risk to even try making one

[compact marlin]

Well, that's cause some of those aren't own by Microsoft, not trying to be mean here, it's just true. But I'd rather follow Halo Studios who seem hopeful then whatever Bungie has become

[civic sundial]

The point isn't whether or not a studio is owned by Microsoft, the point is that usually, a studio has the freedom to explore making and cultivating multiple IPs. Even though these days allot of people forget this, a large number of studios, especially older studios, have two IPs they work on at least

[compact marlin]

Well, yeah. But... I don't know how to explain it. I'm just glad a studio is focused on just Halo so I can see the game I grew up with stay alive

[solid canopy]

The only problem is Microsoft has historically been unable to properly manage their game studios

[solid canopy]

See: FASA, Digital Anvil, Rare, Bungie (kind of), 343 Industries, Microsoft Vancouver/Black Tusk Studios/The Coalition, The Intuitive, Tango Gameworks, Lionhead, Ensumble Studios, Microsoft Japan, Press Play

Also all the studios they bought in the Activision and Zenimax buyouts that they then unceremoniously killed off/shrunk down/fired 900+ people

A large chunk of Turn 10's team who made the Forza games into what they are got let go. Ensumble Studios was treated poorly and killed off so Don Matrick could get a bonus. The Initiative spent the better part of a decade starting and restarting a Perfect Dark reboot just to get cancelled. Lionhead's developers were forced into making Fable games they didn't want to make before being shutdown and discarded. Microsoft didn't give their japanese studio squat in terms of support anf let games like Phantom Dust get discarded. On an additional note, I should mention Scalebound's cancellation. Trench could probably better explain how FASA was mismanaged than I ever could. Tango Gameworks made one of the few warmly recived Xbox exclusives of the 9th Gen only to then get shut down. Microsoft did not give Bungie their dues, causing the studio to eventually split. The Coalition spent the early years of its life being tasked with making a AAA third person action game, only for said game to flounder with little vision or support. There is also the documented history of contract workers being used by Microsoft causing problems with development (ex: Slipspace) or leading to something of a class system behind the scenes (The Coalition)

There is a lot more, but it is pretty clear to me that Microsoft can't manage a studio for squat

[compact marlin]

Okay, that's you're opinion. Not gonna try and change it cause I have no reason to

[glacial tartan]

Their best effort at this has been MCC, will be interesting to see what the future brings

[compact marlin]

The only reason why MCC was the best effort honestly was because all those games were already made. H2A was the only new one, but I am very hopeful for the Future since this will be Halo Studios first game, even if it is just a remake

[sleek hatch]

Most people think they already messed up the remake. From what I am seeing.

[solid canopy]

I'm not doubting the talent of the people at Halo Studios, I am doubting the skill of the people leading them

[compact marlin]

Fair

[celest heron]

they did a ton of new stuff beyond just porting the games.

[compact marlin]

I know, I was just covering the basics

[celest heron]

on the plus side, seems like a kind of a side project so not the end of the world if it doesn't do great.

[exotic ridge]

Theyre planning to remake the whole trilogy

i dont think its a side project, considering its also the first Halo game on PS

[glacial tartan]

I would ask for a source but you cant. It may happen though

[exotic ridge]

Rebs Gaming

[coarse dagger]

Rebs is not a credible source, nothing like this has been announced or hinted it

[glacial tartan]

Rebs 🤣

[exotic ridge]

do you really think they wont do it

[glacial tartan]

I dont state something as fact without any sources, who knows

[coarse dagger]

They might, they might not, but we shouldn't be passing this stuff around like it's factual or actually been mentioned anywhere

The rumors came from absolutely nothing

[glacial tartan]

Literally the source: I made it up meme

[exotic ridge]

I mean, same thing happened with Campaign Evolved

[coarse dagger]

Revs sources are almost always " an anonymous employee"

Trust me bro is not a source

[exotic ridge]

K but i choose to believe

[coarse dagger]

People guessed based on what the studio released. It wasn't a huge leap

[coarse dagger]

Believe by all means, but don't spread it as facts

[exotic ridge]

going back, its def not a side project

[glacial tartan]

I think its def a side project

[exotic ridge]

0/10 ragebait pretty obvious

[sleek hatch]

There is legit a rule to not talk about leaks lol

[exotic ridge]

🤓 mods ban that individual

[glacial tartan]

I was pointing out that its your opinion, I would agree w/ what Lukepowa said that a campaign only game is likely not a main project. I similarly would have called ODST a side project, even if Firefight was a thing

[exotic ridge]

Campaign Evolved is their first game on PS, if they do things wrong theres no way Halo will never recover from that

They cannot lose PS players

[sleek hatch]

A lot of players said if there actually isn't a multiplayer with the CE remake... it will basically be unfinished Halo game/dlc.
Some players even mention "Even ODST had firefight."

[civic sundial]

I don't think it being a campaign only game is an issue at all

[exotic ridge]

Its a remake of CE campaign

[celest heron]

halo has already had big mistakes. If it fumbles on ps, it will just go back to where it is now.

[exotic ridge]

worse, it would be 2 games that didnt hit

actual Infinite mp is great but its initial state its a different story

[vale swallow]

we need multiplayer evolved

[exotic ridge]

any examples?

Also Infinite is not a failure at all but it wasnt as big as 343 thought it would be

[glacial tartan]

No Mans Sky / Cyberpunk immediately came to my mind, there are definitely more

[magic night]

Rainbow Six Siege, Final Fantasy XIV, Fallout 76 for a few more

[sleek hatch]

I love listening to the Halo CE, 2 and 3 behind the development videos.
You can see the passion, competition, and value everyone wanted from the game.
I need to watch 4, 5 and Infinite's

[glacial tartan]

The number of players Infinite has today is inexcusable, period. It may have been a success for the investors / company but as a player you have to admit its not great

[exotic ridge]

Are they as popular as they were before launch?

[exotic ridge]

theres not an official playercount

[vale swallow]

There has been actually. For years.

[glacial tartan]

There is for Steam and for Xbox we know what its below

[exotic ridge]

I think its a great multiplayer, it has one of the biggest sandbox

[exotic ridge]

Only steam

[civic sundial]

They have enough of a following that they're still supported long after when most expected them to be shut down

[sleek hatch]

I went back and compared steam charts to see when MCC took over on steam.
April 18th 2023...

[magic night]

You can't really measure the popularity for something before it's released. Only post-launch.

[glacial tartan]

R6 Siege I believe is far above launch actually, been a while since I looked lol

[exotic ridge]

do you remember the hype for cyberpunk

[glacial tartan]

It was sometihng like 20k cc and was 40/50k cc

[sleek hatch]

R6 was always popular I thought

[civic sundial]

Like, No Man's Sky was the poster game for "Games which promised too much and delivered on none of them"

[magic night]

Year 1 of Siege was massively less popular

[civic sundial]

These days, NMS is kinda insane

[celest heron]

that's been the theme for years. starts off good then dwindles down. I don't expect this to be different.

[glacial tartan]

The amount of dedicated effort undertaken to turn nms around is admirable. They truly wanted to correct their mistakes. And now look

[magic night]

Hype is one thing, but it doesn't always translate to players. You can much more accurately gauge players present at launch, then players over time.

[exotic ridge]

custom games 😂

[glacial tartan]

How are you actually defending Infinite's playercount, even Halo Studios doesnt lol

[exotic ridge]

how about you go to any playlist and see how much it takes you to find a match

[civic sundial]

They're still doing free updates too, long after people said they would pay for them

[exotic ridge]

thats not my problem as a player

[glacial tartan]

I have offered to pay for MCCs updates, fingers crossed but breath not held

[sleek hatch]

Put my money in it too

[civic sundial]

Well there was almost a way added for that, but the community rejected it

[glacial tartan]

Nah

Thats a rewrite of history lol

"Hey what if we sell Spartan points", no follow up, and then dropping it after it gets rejected as a DOA idea is not a real attempt

I have over 2000 Spartan Points and Im the whale they should be chasing, what an awful idea

Tell me you need $50K to ban cheaters and I'll fundraise that overnight - but no, lets sell spartan points with no roadmap or anything. Joke

[quick dune]

Hey guys

Yo lemme tak to ya

I need guidance

[glacial tartan]

I would pay money to host a modded game on the CGB that stays up. Charge me $X per month. Wow, I made a feasible monetization scheme in 30 seconds

[magic night]

I actually think player count doesn't matter anymore. The game's for all intents and purposes hit end of support, so at this point I don't think anybody would expect the player count to grow, or even maintain itself. Applies for both MCC and Infinite.

[quick dune]

I feel like a shadow

[sleek hatch]

I could name 200 players willing to do this to fix ranked

[sleek hatch]

Another 200

Lol

[exotic ridge]

son spartan points are free

[glacial tartan]

Exactly why trying to sell spartan points was a dumb idea

[exotic ridge]

do they sell sp?

[glacial tartan]

Not to mention the game isnt free. Look at how well having thoughtless microtransactions worked for Infinite. Community was right to seek an alternative

[exotic ridge]

idk what Infinite are you playing but im playing it for free brother

[glacial tartan]

It was never strictly no monetization. But why throw in monetization with no roadmap / plan on WHY/WHAT you're doing w/ that money. The servers are still up and they did years of changes AFTER that conversation died.

[glacial tartan]

And the people still playing it deserve better support, but swipe that credit card as much as you want and its not coming.

[exotic ridge]

wdym roadmap, we got a lot of operations

[glacial tartan]

If I came to you and said hey, I need money, would you just give it to me?

[exotic ridge]

if youre still buying after they announced there wouldnt be anymore updates thats on you

[glacial tartan]

MCC is still $40

[exotic ridge]

?

[exotic ridge]

mcc is on sale like every 2 months

[glacial tartan]

Thats what people claim happened with MCC. It was "hey, we need to sell spartan points or we're pulling the plug on development". Which clearly isnt what happened. So why even float the idea? If it was truly so dire they would have continued the conversation at all

[exotic ridge]

bro is mad like he was forced to pay lol

[glacial tartan]

Dont mistake my passion for anger 😄

[exotic ridge]

what does that have to do with Infinite

Ive been playing Infinite without paying a single penny and I have a lot of good stuff

[glacial tartan]

It was a discussion on monetization, ADV Eon made the comment about how MCC would have gotten more updates if MCC added MTX. How is that working for Infinite?

[exotic ridge]

MCC is a paid game, Infinite is not

[glacial tartan]

Whose fault is that

Nobody told 343 to make a bad free game to justify a bad monetization scheme

[sleek hatch]

Nothing is ever free.

[exotic ridge]

The thing is Infinite is not a bad game

[glacial tartan]

if anything its worse that the playercount is so low on a free game

[exotic ridge]

Infinite is !

[glacial tartan]

Yeah Infinite is the best Halo game ever thats why everyone is playing it so much

You got me

[exotic ridge]

One of the best multiplayer games yes

[compact marlin]

I just got off Infinite and it is still a good game, just played the Battle For The Academy Firefight and I loved it, it was difficult but fun

[sleek hatch]

What do you play it on?

[exotic ridge]

Xbox

[sleek hatch]

How much was that?

[compact marlin]

Xbox as well

[exotic ridge]

Halo 5 best mp, Infinite second best mp

[compact marlin]

The story mode was $60 bucks unless you have Game Pass Ultimate

[sleek hatch]

Halo 5 warzone and action sack were awesome, but I can't say it has the best multiplayer when it didn't launch with forge.

[exotic ridge]

yea i played it like 3 times, thank you old gamepass

[compact marlin]

He's not ragebaiting, that's his opinion

[exotic ridge]

true, but custom games arent played as much as normal playlists

[glacial tartan]

Why do I let these people who have played so little bait me

[sleek hatch]

Facts

[exotic ridge]

ive been playing since halo custom edition 🤣

[sleek hatch]

Have you never played duck hunt or fat boy?

[glacial tartan]

You picked the wrong guy, I've played more games of Halo in a single title than all of yours combined 😄

[compact marlin]

I've been playing Halo since Halo 1 on the OG Xbox, as well as Halo 2. The Xbox had both games installed, been a fan ever since

[vale swallow]

Halo Infinite had a difficult time in development, launch, and maintenance.
It obviously still resulted in a shiny, weapons-balanced, and a game compliant of proven algorithms of the industry but..
...the vision of Halo is lost, and the approval of the core fans is not there, and maybe it wasn't 343's fault.
The relationship to some portion of the fanbase has introduced toxicity. The studio certainly could not overcome this hardship. As for who to blame for all this, (I'm not even sure if blaming is going to help), but even if we did, it's not the developers we should be blaming, they are the work horses of the company. Blaming leadership or production houses is going to get us nowhere.

Now for the future... what's on the horizon?
Remakes and "other projects being worked on" (likely multiplayer).
Are any of these going to send Halo back to the glory days. I wouldn't bet on it.
Halo needs a miracle. We will all continue to believe in this miracle because we believe in the Master Chief.

[exotic ridge]

yes, but those arent gamemodes to play for hours

[sleek hatch]

Halo 3 and Reach had thousands of players in customs a day.

[exotic ridge]

halo 3 ???

[glacial tartan]

Im pretty sure Reach still does on MCC, it quite literally dominates the CGB

[glacial tartan]

30K games on OG

[exotic ridge]

🤣

[sleek hatch]

I can load up avalanche and duck hunt from Reach still on mcc.

I was working on a farm when Halo CE-3 came out

[exotic ridge]

brother ive played custom edition almost since it came out on pc

until like 2016

[sleek hatch]

Custom edition?

[exotic ridge]

and im not counting halo 2, halo 3 and halo 4

[glacial tartan]

It was a PC port, basically mods on top of the gearbox port

[compact marlin]

I'm into Halo for the lore, not the multiplayer

[sleek hatch]

Have you read the new book?

[exotic ridge]

basically Halo CE with mods

[exotic ridge]

so?

[glacial tartan]

I was explaining what it was because he asked?

[compact marlin]

Wanna beat Infinite before I read it. Want to take a friend of mine through the series in timeline order

[sleek hatch]

Its an 8/10 book

[compact marlin]

Cool

I just hope Banished Humans remain a thing

[glacial tartan]

Next time remind me

A long time, because once 343 takes them down I'm spinning them back up

It would be nice, we've asked for it for years now

[sleek hatch]

I'll pay for a private AWS server to host the games.

I am really intrigued by the hybrid engine

[glacial tartan]

Dont equate criticism with negativity, if we didnt care we'd just nod along. But I agree w/ your sentiment that its best to move on in general 😄

[compact marlin]

I can't wait to see Sgt Johnson in full U.E.5

[sleek hatch]

The hybrid worked great in Oblivion remastered, but games that only use UE5 are heavily critiqued on it.

[compact marlin]

You mean the people that like all the Halo Games because they just enjoy them?

[exotic ridge]

exactly this

[compact marlin]

But most aren't criticizing, most online are being toxic and trying to stop new fans from getting into the series

[exotic ridge]

whats wrong with it?

we are talking about todays Infinite

[compact marlin]

Yeah

[exotic ridge]

genuine question i want to know

[compact marlin]

Me to

[sleek hatch]

The social features are missing still.
No split screen kind of sucks
And don't even get me started on the netcode.

[exotic ridge]

About the credits?

[exotic ridge]

wdym social features? also there is split screen at least on mp. Netcode is fine but it was bad before 2023

Infinite in general was bad before 2023

[compact marlin]

pre-game lobby VC stopped cause people hung out in Party Chat more.

Game isn't gonna new updates cause the slip space engine was a pain to work with.

Mostly everyone plays online and I can live weather Split Screen is on there or not

[exotic ridge]

whats wrong w Infinite?

[compact marlin]

There, much better

[exotic ridge]

do you think CE mp is better than Infinite?

[sleek hatch]

The party chat thing is absurd

[compact marlin]

It's true

Cause I was there for it

[magic night]

I think Infinite has problems. I think ultimately, it's fine. Game's old and wasn't pulling in new players so expecting it to improve much isn't realistic. What's there right now is fine.

[sleek hatch]

Why did other games not do this then?

[compact marlin]

What?

[exotic ridge]

exactly

[magic night]

Kinda like how 2017 Battlefront II hit end of life. People complained that it was awful that they cut the game's life short, but it got years of updates and still had a fair amount of stuff by the end.

[sleek hatch]

So pc players are forced to use the gamebar?

[exotic ridge]

grinch brother thinks its a bad game and doesnt want to tell me why

[glacial tartan]

There is some truth to what they are saying but its not quite so simple. On the 360 when party chats became more popular vc was still used but it was clearly less. Fast forward to now and most people are just in discord etc.
Edit: This was for the B10Chemist/Bonnie convo

[exotic ridge]

i believe you grinch

[glacial tartan]

To be fair it doesnt matter what opinion he gives, you'll ignore it
Edit: This was directed towards @exotic ridge

[compact marlin]

Thnak you Panda

For my reasoning, not you're new message

[glacial tartan]

Crossing conversations a bit, Im following you dw @compact marlin 😄

[sleek hatch]

Noticed they said nothing about the netcode?

[compact marlin]

I did. The Slipspace Engine

[exotic ridge]

i did

[glacial tartan]

Now I think you're crossing the convo back over lmao

[sleek hatch]

I thought you were talking social features still

[compact marlin]

I was answering Chemist's previous message

[exotic ridge]

im asking him what problems does he think infinite has

[sleek hatch]

The netcode is far from fine.

[exotic ridge]

why?

im asking him

[glacial tartan]

As someone who likes progression I dont know why Infinites was so short

[exotic ridge]

short answer: slipspace engine is not good and nobody knows how it works

[sleek hatch]

I have played infinite in over 23 states. Additionally, I have knowledge on how networking works.
Infinite having 80ms Interpolation is absurd. MCC has 30.
And the rest of it was a bad idea implemented because they wanted it to be fair for people across seas but the movement broke the netcode and aiming.

[exotic ridge]

im literally asking your what are the facts and logic

[sleek hatch]

You can learn how the netcode works

[glacial tartan]

You just triggered the memories of pre title update Halo 3

Where the person w/ a lower ping always won melees lmao

[exotic ridge]

where do you see that? im not from us and i want to see how much do i have

[sleek hatch]

Interpolation?

[exotic ridge]

yes

[sleek hatch]

It is the same value for everyone, but it can range match to match from 80-110

Well 70-110

[exotic ridge]

well there you go, thats an actual problem

[sleek hatch]

The ping you see is just you to the sever. It doesn't account for anything else.
You can view your actual ping in windows task manager or with a packet manager.

[exotic ridge]

yeah i was mixing things up mb

[vale swallow]

What do you guys think of the claim that Halo is meant to be a party game, and not a competitive e-sports sweatfest?

[sleek hatch]

It was always social first. Until 5 iirc

[glacial tartan]

Halo thrives when the sandbox is balanced in a way that competitive players can carve that niche themselves

[compact marlin]

I'd say both

[sleek hatch]

This is the best take.

[vale swallow]

A party-first game can be competitive also, but a competitive-first game cannot be a party-game.
Am I ok to make that claim?

[sleek hatch]

Elaborate?

[glacial tartan]

Cannot is strong, but I would agree you want the direction to be what you described

[vale swallow]

Woke culture killed this

[glacial tartan]

Actual bait

[vale swallow]

It was inspired by this youtube video I saw... when your friends are too woke

[sleek hatch]

The social features are why no one talks

My favorite maps in infinite were the parkour maps.

[radiant sundial]

I've met plenty of people who talk in infinte?

[compact marlin]

Same

[radiant sundial]

Biggest issue with infinites social system is theres no "all" channel, only a team channel

[exotic ridge]

true

[sleek hatch]

I really think we should discuss our thoughts on the hybrid engine for Campaign Evolved.

[glacial tartan]

Have to wait and get more info, dont really know yet

[sleek hatch]

I think it will be really good.
I am mostly wondering how certain actions feel and if the input delay will suffer? If so, how bad does it suffer?

[coarse dagger]

Build I played felt great tbh

[left snow]

It was certainly unexpected after all the "hype" of moving to UE5.

[sleek hatch]

Wish I was a bigger creator to get invited to test it.

[left snow]

It's spun off a Reach era build of Blam?

Which I assume is more stable and easier to work with than where Slipspace ended up.

HS said they chose this direction to maintain the "feel" of Halo.

I wonder if Forge was a factor in keeping Blam under the Hood?

[hidden thistle]

Remember when Moist Critical did a Halo 2 LASO tournament?

[sleek hatch]

That was a few years ago

[sleek hatch]

I wonder if they have the title update version?

[left snow]

The only thing I remember about the TU was they finally nerfed Armour Lock.

There were other meltdowns happening... but all I remember was blah blah Armour Lock. 😄

[sleek hatch]

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo:_Reach_Title_Updates

[compact marlin]

Does it truly feel like Halo?

[left snow]

Oh yeah. Bloom. Bleed through. Voting for TU or original games.

Heady days 🙂

[sleek hatch]

A lot of people said it did.

[compact marlin]

I know, I'm just scared the community will ruin it cause "It's not Bungie Halo"

[civic sundial]

So long as the balancing of the weapons takes inspiration from the more recent games and not from Reach's balancing, I'll be happy

[compact marlin]

But-

[glacial tartan]

Hey dont feel bad considering some really huge creators didnt either. Also afaik time played / contributions etc dont really count either. More of a "who you know" type thing Edit: Not disagreeing etc

[sleek hatch]

Thankfully it got fixed

[sleek hatch]

Thats wild

[coarse dagger]

Yes

[compact marlin]

OOH RAH!

[sleek hatch]

Yes!

Plus some of the jumps you can do are awesome, like ghost jumping

[civic sundial]

I doubt Bungie intended for people to jump off of icicles when they allowed you to shoot them. Like, people being able to do tricks like that is just a happy accident

[crystal iron]

Is there an obvious reason why there isn’t an air gun/pneumatic rifle in Halo?

[glacial tartan]

Might have the wrong game on this one 😄

[short flower]

Oh yeah I still gotta complete that achievement sometime

live fire for the last firefight match of this session

sentinel beam not bad

A 5th match of the session to rank up Onyx Sergeant.

Teammate just HAD to go in front of my rocket. What a jerk.

Gotta do a 6th match.

[short flower]

Finally onyx sergeant… could’ve taken one less match but at least I got more snowbound progress

[tulip blaze]

Does anyone have some tips for two betrayal on LASO campaign?

[solid canopy]

I wish I did. Two Betrayals was easily the most frustrating level in my Legendary run of CE; I can't imagine doing it on LASO.

The lack of cover + parts where they force you to go across large areas on foot made it a slog

[tulip blaze]

Yeah I already finished it on legendary but it was a pain

I did T&R on LASO with a friend today, it was our 3rd try, took us almost 4 hours but we did it

[solid canopy]

Nice

[tulip blaze]

It’s a mission I really dread, and I’m honestly afraid of getting stuck on it for a long time

[solid canopy]

I'm playing through CE with a friend rn on co-op (no special challange, just heroic + the birthday party skull) and it has been such a good time

[solid canopy]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hfMNA4ThvWc&list=PL3bi5dIhs8VVQCaXlX3aLasF7sVlcJbMN&index=8&pp=iAQB

There is this guide here which might be of help.

[tulip blaze]

Nice, have you ever did H2 on legendary yet or no?

This one, I don’t think I’ll have the strength or the faith to complete it on LASO. It seems much more complicated to me than the first one

[solid canopy]

I haven't done a full playthrough of 2 on Legendary, but I have held it out on one or two levels

Though for Outskirts I always jump onto the rooftops and then hold down the boost in the ghost till I reach the end

[tulip blaze]

Good luck with gravemind

Took me 2h the first time I did it on legendary

But yeah there is a few useful skip on H2

[hoary iris]

How long did the other missions take you

I’m doing h2 legendary and im on the regret boss fight

[hoary iris]

343 devs piss me off so much

[celest heron]

why

[compact marlin]

No they weren't. If you check Halo Studios, the names there are all different

[coarse dagger]

343 rebranded into Halo Studios. Yes some folk left and new folk joined, but no more than other game studios or tech companies. It's not a brand new company

[latent acorn]

As the saying goes new name, same studio

[compact marlin]

Didn't the new CEO state that the entire old staff got gutted?

[coarse dagger]

I don't think so

Considering a chunk of the people I worked with as a Forerunner are still there

[latent acorn]

The old staff just left on their own accord. Same with founder Bonnie Ross

[coarse dagger]

There are writers, devs, production, and support folk I know that have been there for years and are still there

I hope Bonnie and her family are doing ok

[compact marlin]

Wait, you work for them?

[civic sundial]

Stckr doesn't work for them

[compact marlin]

Okay, I was extremely confused by they're last comment

[coarse dagger]

I'm part of a community based group that helps out with various types of feedback and testing

So I've gotten to know quite a few of the staff over the years

[compact marlin]

Huh, so why were 4 and 5 not... you know?

Just personal opinion maybe?

[coarse dagger]

Why were they not what?
Though I should add that whatever the question is, I probably can't answer it as I didn't work on anything related to 4 and 5

[compact marlin]

Well, why were the games not well received? Infinite I can get cause of the slip space engine

[latent acorn]

Just friendly heads up is monitors and admins are volunteers. Regular Halo fans just like us.

[onyx latch]

New games coming out during the Gamergate years that were not precisely 1-1 with the originals or fan expectations.

And thus subjected to both nostalgia-related culture wars, as well as fan expectations and staff expectations of reception being misplaced.

[coarse dagger]

4 was praised for its story elements and 5 was heavily praised for multiplayer and forge.
I enjoyed all parts of both games

[onyx latch]

For example, people said they liked Halo for the story, when they actually meant that they like Halo for the gameplay of the story, not the story itself-attempts to actually deepen the story made it too complex, apparently.

[onyx latch]

Tack on Halo objectively losing the FPS rush to competition that pivoted better to player expectations and needs (Such as churning out mediocre games yearly, hi CoD) and trying to push something with too small a studio too fast, too ambitious with too little, and it led to a disjointed result.

[compact marlin]

So, some people are just a stick in the mud that are hating on the new games because they're game evolved to stay relevant?

[onyx latch]

That's a pretty significant part of it, yes.

One thing I've noticed with Halo is that a lot of the more entrenched 'complainers' both don't actually play the new games and don't really understand why Halo had the cultural impact it did, or where it got its inspirations from.

Nice Tumblr zinger, but we're not talking about the studio of the present moment.

[molten idol]

Another large part of it is 343 mishandling the franchise. Look at MCC, you cant play cross play campaign on half the games, the multiplayer is broken, we are getting another remaster of halo 1 before we get a remaster of halo 3 or odst and where is halo 5 on mcc or pc? The fans lost respect for 343 because 343 dont respect halo fans

[onyx latch]

Ultimately, the issue is mostly public perception in my eyes-it's popular to hate on Halo and it's been popular to do so since the console wars.

[onyx latch]

You did not read a single thing I said and just wanted to type out a screed of irrelevant "I hate new studio", didn't you.

That question is rhetorical. Because the answer is obviously no.

[molten idol]

I wasnt talking to you hahahaha i was talking to bonnie

[onyx latch]

God, people need to get better at understanding... Literally anything.

[compact marlin]

You guys have been saying that for 10 years

[onyx latch]

I mean, christ, case in point right here.

It's popular to hate, because hating on things gives a dopamine hit, and we're a culture that loooooves its social hating dopamine hit.

The complaint doesn't even have to make freaking sense

It's pathetic

[compact marlin]

Sprint and grapple were great editions, and a lot of people jumped repeatedly in the old games to **MOVE FASTER THEN THE BASE MOVEMENT **

[molten idol]

Because its true? I love halo, i dont understand why you have a problem with my statement, you can still love a franchise but be disappointed in the state of it? Must be the same as how cod fans feel

[onyx latch]

It's true that you have an opinion. Whether or not that opinion is true is irrelevant, because it's an opinion.

[compact marlin]

Except it isn't true. A lot of people say you didn't need to read the books with the Bingie Games when you actually did

[onyx latch]

Also like case in point in it being popular to hate; Someone brings up the question of why things went a certain way, and conniving weirdos come crawling out of the woodwork to make it a fight.

"Oh man it's the WORST", says someone desperate for another hit.

God, knowing the psychology behind it somehow makes it MORE infuriating.

[celest heron]

Cross play would take 6 months to a year for each game. Unfortunately, that started to happen towards the tail end of the updates. h5 on mcc is never gonna happen, but maybe on pc one day. we don't need an h3 remaster. frankly, didn't even want another ce, but I guess they want to show off ue5.

[compact marlin]

Yeah, I wasn't even looking for a fight. I was just curious about something

He's right

Luke is right

Exactly

[onyx latch]

I literally never said that it was always.

I just said it was popular.

I said the reason in what you are replying to.

If you're going to put words in my mouth at least read the ones I actually say.

This crap's why I have a folder on my desktop labelled "Bad Halo takes"

[vocal void]

interesting conversation. i just started replaying halo after 20 years.

[molten idol]

I am slightly purplexed by you saying you need to read the books? I picked up halo 3 when it came out, no idea what it was about and i played it almost everyday for the next year, i loved it, didnt need to understand what happened before to understand what was happening in that moment? Then reach came along and fleshed out a lpt more of the lore with ONI and how the Spartans came to be. My point was regarding halo going down hill since 343 took over, i enjoyed 4 and 5 despite the boring forerunner enemies, i just wish 343 would take more care for their fans and fix mcc before pursing other games

[civic sundial]

Reach didn't delve into how the Spartans came to be though

[compact marlin]

Exactly

[civic sundial]

Like, it's very much not about the origins of the Spartans. It's about the Covenant invasion of the planet Reach

[compact marlin]

And I learned mostly everything by watching YouTube videos about the lore that came from the books back in 2009 when Bungie was still in charge

[onyx latch]

Turns out dealing with people whose franchise knowledge is effectively equivelant to not knowing how to pour urine out of a boot if the instructions on the heel is frustrating. Who knew.

[celest heron]

I'm sure they'd love to fix everything with mcc, but there's this thing with deadlines and new games that need to be made to please higher ups.

[onyx latch]

Keeping the takes around is my catharsis, because someone's idiocy was so potent that I decide to stick it on a digital fridge like an avante garde art piece.

[hoary iris]

It’s the same brah

[compact marlin]

And, do you think it could use a remake or have sprint added, even though it still holds up?

[hoary iris]

They got no love for halo

[onyx latch]

See, stuff like this. Not knowing the most BASIC STORY COMPONENTS of Reach. It's maddening! How do you not know!

[hoary iris]

It dosent belong imo

Unless they change the whole game play loop

[compact marlin]

Whatever

[onyx latch]

Like for a game y'all claim to love you sure don't know jack about it.

[civic sundial]

Considering they're rebuilding the game from the ground up, I imagine the level design will be designed to accommodate the addition of sprint

[hoary iris]

In my opinion sprint in halo ce takes away from the mystery and moments where you are wondering what is this, who built this, what is the purpose of this ring

[civic sundial]

Sprint doesn't disable the player's ability to have a sense of mystery

[onyx latch]

This is another point for my 'everyone is actually 12 years old' theory, christ.

[vocal void]

yes to both.

[hoary iris]

In halo 2 I think it’s even more wrong because of how snappy and quick chiefs base line movement speed is

[compact marlin]

Yeah, and I am a Halo Veteren that didn't have access to Xbox Live as a child so Campaign was what I grew up and why I love Halo. I play it for the lore

[vocal void]

i can play the original easily.

[hoary iris]

In theory no, but in practice yes

[onyx latch]

Explain your practical evidence.

Otherwise it's just spitting diet ignorance.

[compact marlin]

Yeah please

[hoary iris]

Bassicaly your moving faster, usually towards a set point, thus you take less time to enjoy the scenery

[onyx latch]

That's not evidence. That's a thesis.

[hoary iris]

I can get more in depth if yall would like ( specific game play examples)

[coarse dagger]

You can turn off sprint in the remake

[hoary iris]

Ok I needa play halo ce and give you a specific example

[hoary iris]

Yes but why add it in the first place?

[onyx latch]

I swear to god people we learn how to run a scientific EXPERIMENT IN BASIC AMERICAN EDUCATION

[civic sundial]

Like, I remember back when Destiny 1 released and even though that game has sprint, I still felt a sense of mystery from wandering around the environments

[coarse dagger]

I've been wanting to sprint in CE since like 2002

[compact marlin]

I took less time to enjoy the scenery because I was slow, it took sprint to get me to slow down and enjoy the scenery which made me do the same with the old games

[hoary iris]

IMO I don’t think anyone should touch the og games

[molten idol]

Reach did discuss spartan origins? Firstly by putting down militias, this is shown in the first mission. Later you meet halsey and notice jorge and halsey are closer than the rest, jorge is also larger and stronger as he is a spartan 2 while the rest are spartan 3s. Lone wolf you see dozens of dead spartans as reach is basically the homeworld of the spartans, this is also detailed through out the campaign especially by jorge on night of solice. I think reach does do a lot to flesh out the lore without needing to spell things out. All the trailers showed footage of children being taken and going through training and surgery to become spartans? I dont get your beef?

[onyx latch]

It's like you people are made in a lab to have takes that are divorced from reality in a way that specifically is geared to be annoying to me.

[compact marlin]

And I didn't understand any of it until I dived into the books

[onyx latch]

I agree with a caveat, but that caveat is mostly "Except for people who maintain it so that it keeps working on modern systems".

I loathe remasters and remakes out of principle.

[hoary iris]

I saw a video comparing halo 3 movement and halo 5 movement. And with halo 5 the extra abilities made your guy move slower

[onyx latch]

But like, if you're gonna do a remake, you might as well change some mechanic.

[civic sundial]

Sprint in Reach is so weird to me and should've just been a base ability the player has at all times, like how Halo 4 did it

[hoary iris]

For instance in halo 3 you could just jump up to a black, but in halo 5 you had to jump than clamber into that specific place

[onyx latch]

Oh, right, those videos, that spouted nonsense like 'map stretching' while being ignorant of the massive list of reasons of OTHER REASONS YOU WOULD DO THAT

You (Subjective) might as well join the flat earth society if that's your evidence base.

[celest heron]

you're still going to look around and explore because it's a new experience. If I already played it 20 times, then yeah I'll likely just sprint to checkpoints.

[hoary iris]

It litteraly makes you not be able to shoot your gun for a split second

[civic sundial]

That video conveniently leaves out the part where the environments in Halo 5 are designed with the various movement abilities in mind. Truth is larger and Midship because it would feel horrible to play without the updates they made to the map

[hoary iris]

That’s objectively worse from a game play prespexctive

[onyx latch]

No? Lmao what are you even talking about

[hoary iris]

Yea obviously

[hoary iris]

How is it not, I would be preety mad if a game play aspect that has no need in the game made me die

[compact marlin]

And I have encounterd a person that wasn't sprinting while I was and I actually won

[civic sundial]

Do you complain about sprint being in Halo only or do you complain about it being in other shooters like COD, Apex, etc?

[hoary iris]

Sprint dosent belong in halo

[onyx latch]

Oh, wow, you made a bad call and suffered for it? Damn, that's wild.

[hoary iris]

I can’t imagine halo 2 with sprint

[civic sundial]

You didn't answer my question

[onyx latch]

It's almost as though you were making a vulnerability for yourself for a potential advantage and lost the gamble.

[compact marlin]

Bungie added sprint to Halo. It's in Halo 2 just turned off

[hoary iris]

I only complain about it being in halo

[hoary iris]

But you can’t sprint. So it makes no difference

[onyx latch]

That explains a lot and none of it is good.

[compact marlin]

Okay, I'm done with you

[hoary iris]

Explain

[onyx latch]

It makes it clear that it's just a petty, narrow-minded perspective.

[hoary iris]

Oh yea 100%

[compact marlin]

I blocked them

[onyx latch]

And that you aren't a very consistent person considering your pfp.

[civic sundial]

Considering how troubled the development was for Halo 2, I imagine they didn't want to try adding sprint on top of everything else they wanted to try with that game

[onyx latch]

Problably smart.

[hoary iris]

Buddy your pfp is a bird

[vocal void]

same.

[onyx latch]

And yours is an edgy tryhard

[civic sundial]

What's wrong with birds?

[hoary iris]

Oh yea bro the coolest noble team member is one 100%

[onyx latch]

Emile literally constantly fails lmao

[hoary iris]

You are a weak man

[onyx latch]

Takes one to know one.

[compact marlin]

You can report that I believe

[hoary iris]

Please report me

[vocal void]

a lot of their rhetoric sounds eerily familiar to what "halo fans" with monetized channels on youtube say.

[hoary iris]

I mean in cut scenes yea

[onyx latch]

Because these people don't get their information from actually thinking critically about their position.

It's all 'vibes' and 'aesthetics' and 'looks'. It's performative nonsense.

[hoary iris]

How many halo games have you completed on legendary

[onyx latch]

All except Infinite. Reach on SLASO, as well. Miserable experience.

[civic sundial]

So long as it's considered by the level designers when making environments, I don't see why not?

[onyx latch]

And for Infinite it was mostly because it felt pointless to beat it more than once.

[hoary iris]

Advanced movement dosent belong in halo imo

[civic sundial]

Like, I'm at the point where, so long as the game is fun, I don't care how many new mechanics are added to the game

[molten idol]

Agreed

[hoary iris]

I genuinely hate 343 and think they should never existed

[coarse dagger]

Cool, new topic

Let's move on

[onyx latch]

Like, case in point, again, it's performative. "Oh well you disagree with me? I BET I PLAYED THE GAME ON A HIGHER DIFFICULTY THAN YOU"

[hoary iris]

I am just curious

[molten idol]

You can move on we are talking

[civic sundial]

So, Unggoy Farmer, am I right?

[coarse dagger]

No, the conversation is done

[onyx latch]

I prefer Unggoy alien catfish noodling.

[coarse dagger]

It's clear there is zero interest in being constructive here, so it's new topic time

[civic sundial]

Fair

[hoary iris]

Like I just wanted to know if you actually play the games and are not just saying bs

[onyx latch]

Or is that what the grunt farmer is farming? Fish?

[latent acorn]

New funny topic. What is the most funny Halo multiplayer moment where you out wit your opponents?

[vocal void]

is there a fishing mod for halo

[onyx latch]

NGL the Quantum Translocator is great for adding the ability to do this.

[molten idol]

I think they bs

[compact marlin]

Grapple Hook

[civic sundial]

You know, great question, they never specified when they made Unggoy Farmer a thing. And I never considered they'd be farming fish in that game

[onyx latch]

I remember the time I killed Mint Blitz with the ol 'Throw a grenade at your feet' trick, that was pretty funny. Oldest trick in the book.

[shadow turret]

The Quantum Bamboozler

[civic sundial]

Does it count if it's me outwitting myself and sending myself off a cliff in a Ghost?

If no, I have done some fun bamboozling thanks to the repulser and grapple in Infinite

[nova basalt]

God I hate the translocator
Useless for my team but a wonder weapon for the enemies

[compact marlin]

Someone jumped on my Ghost in Reach one time so I drove towards a cliff to kill us both, but he kicked me off and saved me while he went over the edge with the Ghost

[onyx latch]

Ah, the classic counter-boarding manuever.

[onyx latch]

That whole match was funny because even though we lost, Mint and I traded 3 for 3

And it was always like, the dumbest ways

[latent acorn]

I remember tricking some opponents in a Infinite multiplayer CTF match where I toss their flag off the map and 5 of the opposing team just jumped off the map to save their flag. Which was kindly funny. That was in summer of 2023.

[compact marlin]

I was also playing Reach one time and we were on the first mission where the door is slowly closing, everyone but Emile is inside and I keep shouting at him to get inside only for the door to lock him outside, so I theroized that he got captured by The Covenant before he spawned back in at the final cutscene

[onyx latch]

That'd still be more effective than he was in the actual game anyways.

I'm sure they're very interested in reading 'sprint bad' and several insults and or slurs again.

[coarse dagger]

Best places to leave feedback are the forums: #1039633978841374720 and #1076337363770417172

[onyx latch]

Also what Stckr said.

[coarse dagger]

Feedback is collated from there regularly and passed on

[nova basalt]

People say bad stuff like that once in a while but it gets deleted

[onyx latch]

Mmn.

[compact marlin]

I wonder if Humans can rise through the ranks of The Banished

[civic sundial]

Ilsa Zane has a notable position within the Banished

[onyx latch]

They can, it's just that it's very hard for anyone who isn't, say, a Jannissary. Brutes normally value strength over smarts culturally, but both is preferred.

Ilsa Zane isn't particularly smart, but she is very cutthroat and depraved, so I guess that works for her.

[onyx latch]

Humans generally are pretty squishy, so the only normally notable ones you'd see in Banished ranks provide a service they can't really normally utilize. Such as doctors or scientists.

[compact marlin]

So I know it's unlikely, but if an Ex-UNSC ODST turned evil and joined The Banished and somehow became a Shipmaster, Brutes would have to follow his orders?

[onyx latch]

Eeyup

Though the Banished don't really do Shipmasters

[compact marlin]

Well, not Shipmaster, Fleetmaster or whatever the term is

A fleet leader, like Ilsa Zane

[onyx latch]

They do things like "Battle Officers" and such

[short flower]

I’ve still got 20+ xp boosts, think that is enough to finish off my last few battle passes?

[onyx latch]

More than. If you wanna maximize effeciency, play firefight or BTB

[compact marlin]

Well, I doubt the Brutes would follow or respect a Banished ODST as they're leader

[short flower]

Oh yeah I’ve resorted to doing fiesta firefight.

[onyx latch]

That works just fine

[short flower]

I wanna be able to spawn with campaign weapons.

[onyx latch]

That was what made Halo 5 Fiesta the best tbh

[short flower]

M41 Tracker and Purging Shock Rifle for example.

[onyx latch]

It was so goofy

Actually crazy that people think they don't regularly do this

Because they do, it's literally part of game design ffs

"I don't think they-"

No, they absolutely do, you just don't see it.

[short flower]

Backdraft Cindershot/Rushdown Hammer so stuff like that in FF.

[onyx latch]

They problably would, if they held that rank-albiet grudgingly.

[short flower]

Only Husky has this I think.

Wait no I think BTB as well?

[onyx latch]

Like, the Banished respects results most of all, to the point of it normally transcending species.

[compact marlin]

Wish the Players could get the option to join The Banished

[kindred skiff]

they have banished spartans in the game no?

[compact marlin]

Even though, I don't have any Banished armor. Unless putting on The Banished Symbol and putting on Black and Red, or white and red or just red in general is good enough?

[short flower]

I see what you meant about super fiesta in 5, spawn in with like Didact’s Signet or Vorpal Talon

[onyx latch]

This also kinda works with their whole "We are basically the Space Mongols" schtick

[kindred skiff]

if ya want space mongols check out the White Scars in 40K

Top 5 space marine legion

the other four would be ultramarines, black templars, salamanders, and space wolves

[onyx latch]

Eh. I'm an Iron Warriors fanbird.

Which... Makes a lot of sense, actually.

[short flower]

So yeah I would want super fiesta firefight in infinite but idk if that’s ever gonna happen.

[kindred skiff]

chaos marines 🤢

[kindred skiff]

super fiesta was fiesta with more weapon variants in H5 right?

H5 multiplayer was so peak on my soul

[short flower]

Looks like it. ALL the guns.

And then you have Husky Raid with super fiesta, ALL the guns.

[onyx latch]

It was pretty good. 5 had the best weapon variety in the franchise, bar none

[compact marlin]

I now have a ton of questions about The Banished, anywhere I can ask?

[onyx latch]

#lore-and-universe

AKA the real best place of the server

[short flower]

And some maps have weapon drop pods, which may contain a campaign weapon in infinite firefight.

100% pick em up, the campaign weapons are so good.

Trying to march H5 super fiesta party…

It’s loading?

Husky Raid?

[onyx latch]

I swear to god you people need to understand the evolution of the franchise more cohesively.

It's like people don't even know how forge started.

Or why, or Bungie's own laughably misguided goals. Or what people use it for now.

Or even appreciate what it can do now despite it being so damned different.

But sure, no, it's only a problem that 343i didn't think of (They absolutely thought about the upsides and downsides of how they implemented Forge in Infinite because they did it for 5 already)

They literally sponsored a guide on how to use Halo Infinite forge!

They literally ported just the forge of 5 to PC to make it easier for people to use.

[civic sundial]

People were making tutorials all the way back in the Reach days of Forge

I remember making a functional drop pod within Reach's Forge thanks to one of those tutorials

[onyx latch]

They literally failed to understand that people would want to make maps with Forge. It's why 3's Forge was so rudimentary.

Bungie failed at something freaking Gearbox understood.

Because Halo CE and 2 both had map editors packed with their launch on PC via the Gearbox ports.

It's not some magical "Oh Bungie was amazing and knew what people wanted", it's literally "Bungie did not expect a mapmaker to be popular and Forge was meant to just mix up some basic sandbox elements like weapon location". It's why every notable Halo 3 forge map literally uses glitches.

Yeah, no, I don't give a damn about ad populum fallacies.

"It's super popular!"

Yeah, and it's still crappy and rudimentary.

[short flower]

Dangit a tie..

I may have gone negative (19-22) but at least I got an opening snipe!

Meta Wave I think that was the map I just played?

Oh MW is what I’m playing now.

[short flower]

Oh M808B Production was the first map I played. Gotcha.

[glacial tartan]

I agree with the idea that the current forge in Infinite is a far superior version of forge than any previous iterations players can interact with.

However I also have to acknowledge it’s in a pretty dead game so it doesn’t really matter how good it is. There is some other combination of issues that have driven players away. I would normally say to focus on that but I don’t see any evidence they want to.

[short flower]

I was not expecting to get an Overkill on Meta Wave!

(Light rifle!)

Ay, that map has a sick intro.

[glacial tartan]

What he said isnt a fallacy. His argument isnt that its better because its more popular, its that its better because its simpler. And he used the fact that more people are using it to support that argument.

If his argument was "its better because more people are using it", that would be fallacious. Right?

[onyx latch]

More popular=Better is literally a form of the ad populum fallacy argument. Hell it is the form.

[short flower]

I still will want warzone firefight to match again someday.

[onyx latch]

Like, what does popularity mean if not more people.

[exotic ridge]

they are just bungie fanboys

[onyx latch]

I don't even know how you can actually fail to understand what the Ad Populum fallacy is harder than "Literally thinking a textbook example of its usage is not in fact an example of its usage".

It's like the scene from American Dad where Stan literally holds god at gunpoint, you can't metaphor any harder.

Like, not only is it a fallacy, it's being used to defend something that isn't even actually being defended, it's tangential to the actual point. My argument is that Halo 3's forge system is rudimentary and poorly designed by Bungie because they made a poor assumption of what people wanted it for.

The popularity of that system has zero bearing on the effectiveness of it-which is the center of my criticism- beyond showing that the fact it exists at all is a good thing, and anything beyond that is tangential.

That's not deflecting a fact though!?

That's not even the case that I'm stating!

[exotic ridge]

Where do you get this ?

[onyx latch]

Oh, speaking of MCC, I guess I finally deleted enough scrap files to install it. Cool.

You don't know how to actually debate, and that's okay. Most people don't.

An objective failing can still be popular, because people's tastes are not actually defined by quality.

[rotund zenith]

I liked halo 3s forge for the same reason i liked gmod, i could goof with friends easily. Kinda pushing the comparison to the extreme but itd be like if gmod2 came out and it was a slightly prettier hammer editor.
Hammer editor isnt bad but id be sad to see the different thing go

[onyx latch]

Likewise, an objective success can be deeply unpopular, because people's tastes are, again, not actually defined by quality.

You sure seem to think so.

• Because you imply it by stating it.
• Because you literally engaged in a fallacy.

Like, this isn't tumblr, dude. Repeating what I say back to me like I screamed it insanely isn't exactly effective.

That's not what you meant when you did the first one and you know it.

Try harder.

Nothing to assume. You're either being ignorant of context or maliciously ignorant.

And at this point I'm leaning maliciously ignorant.

[rotund zenith]

Id post a gif of a dog chasing its tail to describe this epilogue to the convo but alas

[onyx latch]

It's problably better for my sanity to just block the person who doesn't understand basic crap.

[glacial tartan]

If that was his argument then yes. But its not. His argument is simpler = better.

[onyx latch]

Yeah, no, that wasn't his argument.

If it was he should've done a better job framing it.

Either way, I'm done talking about it.

[glacial tartan]

I mean you can just ask him. @crystal iron Did you mean to say "Halo 3's forge was better because its more popular"? Or did you mean "Halo 3s forge was better because its simpler"? 😄

Its very simple, you can just communicate

[onyx latch]

The first was literally one of the points made.

[glacial tartan]

I thought they said it was better because it was simpler, then pointed to the fact that more people were using it. Regardless, they've clarified, can move on

If we all agree Infinites forge is so much better, the real question is why do so few want to interact with it. I think thats when it gets interesting / fruitful

[onyx latch]

It's better (subjective) because it is simpler (objective), which is true because more people play it (The fallacy).

The last part is the fallacy, because popularity is not a measure of quality, popularity is a measure of popularity.

[sleek hatch]

How is it complicated?
Like finding stuff?

[onyx latch]

It would not be a fallacy if the argument was that simple is better because it is more accessible. It's still a matter of taste and not an objective truth, which is the other reason why utilization of popularity to present your argument as truth is misguided at best.

[sleek hatch]

How is it simpler?

[short flower]

Normally I’m a noob in regular PvP but I seemed to have locked in a little and got an overkill today.

Appreciate it, light rifle.

[sleek hatch]

Nice! Gotta clip? And what Halo?

[glacial tartan]

I assumed H4, if it was Lightning Flag then it was a rush

[short flower]

Halo 5: Guardians, do got a clip but don’t think I can post it anywhere.

[glacial tartan]

Ah nice

[onyx latch]

I actually really liked Lightning Flag.

[sleek hatch]

Dm me the clip! Or post it in
https://discord.com/channels/471722331820130324/1076327824924872755

[short flower]

I will probably need the inheritor role. I’ve been so active here though…

[onyx latch]

4 honestly has some of the best action sack modes in the franchise.

Unlike freaking Reach. Whoever invented Dino Blasters should be shot into the sun.

[orchid stirrup]

Halo 5s sandbox was incredibly fun.

[glacial tartan]

It also has the worst. Ninja Assassins might be the worst gametype in MCC.

[sleek hatch]

5 did a lot to action sack too

[onyx latch]

I'd still rather that than dino blasters lmao

[glacial tartan]

Meanwhile I love Dino Blasters, funny how that works 😄

[onyx latch]

It combines my three least favorite mechanics in Reach, so

[exotic ridge]

It just has a lot of stuff, i wouldnt say complicated

[short flower]

Alright I posted it in show and tell, perfect.

[onyx latch]

I don't like the jetpack, I don't like the concussion blaster, and I don't like hearing the constant EEEEEEE of explosions

[sleek hatch]

Can anyone explain to me how Infinite's forge is more complicated than Halo 3's?

[glacial tartan]

You must HATE H2A

I dont know how that game even passes accessibility standards. The fact your screen can shake THAT MUCH is insane

[onyx latch]

Correct, I am not a fan.

[glacial tartan]

To be fair its H4:2 so its not its fault. Bad foundation

[short flower]

There is indeed, a lot of camera shake.

Especially with explosions in 4 alone.

[onyx latch]

I mean it kinda stems from Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 2A's weird obsession with trying to badly ape conventional FPS mechanics of the time, which happened to include blinding the player and messing with their hearing in annoying ways.

5 also does it but not nearly as obnoxiously.

But 5 also has enough blur that you can conceivably say it simulates astigmatism, so there's a tradeoff.

[glacial tartan]

I would mod Reach to remove that god awful blur if I can

[civic sundial]

Infinite's Forge also allows you to do stuff like scripting and spawning in NPCs, specificially Banished and UNSC NPCs, allowing you to make stuff like Firefight or campaign inspired experiences

[glacial tartan]

It might be morally acceptable to install cheats on MCC if all it could do was remove that feature

[onyx latch]

The fact they added it back is infuriating. There was a blessed time in the PC port where you could remove the legacy blur of Reach and I miss it.

Come to think of it, the fact that Halo Infinite's customs browser is so... Annoying, is likely why people use it to play custom games less. It's just a different social interest and group combined wth a mildly annoying interface.

[sleek hatch]

I didn't even notice that tbh. Is there anything else that makes it more complicated?

[sleek hatch]

You are missing 99% of the conversation. We are talking about how infinite is apparently more complicated than 3 for forging.

That is a crazy comparison lol.

However, I get what you are saying.
Maybe its windows 10 to windows 11?

[sleek hatch]

I think the main thing is infinite is more competitive than social.
Social players prefer older Halos, crazy enough, compared to Infinite.

Linux isn't really used the same way windows is though.
Linux is for managing servers and networking mostly.
Windows is for productivity

[rotund zenith]

4 made me want to scream with the lighting loading

[glacial tartan]

Simpler example: Xbox vs PC for playing games. One is plug n play, restricted sandbox etc. The other you've got a million toggles and switches blah blah

[sleek hatch]

They mimick windows but still do the same job lol.
I would never use linux to do productivity stuff at a company when Windows exist.
Now if I am managing the security or network for a company... I would use any linux distro(except bazzite) over windows.

Anyways losing track here

[onyx latch]

Huh. That's interesting.

[sleek hatch]

There is a linux made for gaming but if you play xbox games... forget it. MCC and Infinite work on the some distros, but perform better on windows.
If you only play steam games... linux is for you.

[onyx latch]

Customs browser for Infinite is mostly variations on weird game modes and such, with the modes you can really only do in Infinite such as that pseudo-Helldivers clone.

Customs browser for MCC is mostly things you can... Already do with MCC matchmaking.

[sleek hatch]

I see stuff like duck hunt, avalanche, paintball, etc in MCC.
Stuff that was only in CGB

[glacial tartan]

Except for the modded content. Thats definitely not in matchmaking

[onyx latch]

Yeah

I think that it's likely due to Halo MCC's matchmaking being incredibly split demographic wise. I know I'd be waiting an hour if I wanted to play Halo 2A with a full lobby, or a day or five if it was H2A BTB.

And by incredibly split I mean not actually split at all but more just incredibly focused on two specific games.

I mean it makes sense, Halo Infinite's matchmaking system honestly works way better overall, especially sinceit's all the same game and adopts the normal action sack minigame modes in normal matchmaking.

[sleek hatch]

Honestly I found games faster in H2A than infinite.
Although it was 4v4 slayer

[onyx latch]

I can just... Go and play minigames in matchmaking, and even choose which ones specifically. Takes a lot of the work out of trying to organize it.

[glacial tartan]

In MCC you can just go queue action sack, maybe I missed what you're saying

[cyan forum]

Fat kid on MCC is a good time too

[onyx latch]

My experience with MCC Action Sack is that it is super heavy on the less specific action sack modes, the ones that rely more on messing with settings on vanilla maps than having specific maps and modes.

Like that flamethrower-shotgun slayer mode for CE.

While Halo Infinite's is basically only things like duck hunt, hexagone, or that one where you drive in circles on warthogs.,

[cyan forum]

I think it also helps that modding is actually possible in MCC which results in a bigger playerbase

Id like to mod Infinite, but no one has cuz its not possible afaik

[glacial tartan]

I agree that 343 has never been good at map/gametype weights. Its....really rough.

[cyan forum]

Its not steam but no workshop

[glacial tartan]

Action sack should lean more towards this stuff, I agree. I want more Fly High / Team Sumo, less Fiesta on repeat

[onyx latch]

I'd be lying if I said that Halo MCC's matchmaking was fine, considering it's literally part of the reason why I don't play it.

[glacial tartan]

If only there was someone who could step in and do something about it. Or could have ever. Oh well 😄

[sleek hatch]

And if that person existed, if they would read these comments.

[tulip blaze]

Around 1h-1h30 but it was my first attempt and I didn’t watched any speedrun guide

[onyx latch]

Yeah, Halo Infinite solves that by having Fiesta in Slayer.

I think. I'm double checking

Yeah, it's in quick play, my bad

[glacial tartan]

Halo 3 Lone Wolves had Swords in it. And it worked. You wont see me complaining about taking risks w/ gametypes/modes

Meanwhile we are still unwilling to take risks when we have no players lmao

Even if you are a big ranked player now its not anywhere near as bad as it was - which still wasnt that bad.

The one exception is the Reach CGB. Its very obvious they have no active anti-cheat resources and only react to tickets, because you can go into the CGB on Reach and find cheaters all day every day lol

[onyx latch]

Basically, Halo Infinite splits up your 'for fun' modes into three sections;

Blind 'shoot people lots on normal maps/semi-normal gameplay' is in Quick Play

Action Sack is your dedicated mode and maps with specific and very non-standard gameplay

Rumble Pit is your free for all 'shoot people on normal maps'

And for some weird reason there is zero infection playlist.

I mean not that I really particularly care, I don't like infection.

Oh wait my bad infection is in Action Sack

So I guess that's an exception to the rule, though Infection usually uses some pretty heavy remixes in Infinite rather than stock maps

[sleek hatch]

I prefer some of MCC matchmaking vs Infinite's.
And some of infinite to MCC.

I want the ability to search for all ranked modes at the same time or all 4v4 modes I want like MCC.

[nova basalt]

If there ever is an infection playlist, there should be no regular maps. Nearly every round I load into is some lame 4v4 map that sucks to play infection in

[cyan forum]

Yeah that sounds about right for Infinite

Altho now i wonder how an originally made zombies map would be like

[nova basalt]

My favorites are the maps from the Haloween 2024 alpha zombies playlist

But those maps are never to be seen again

[cyan forum]

Temporary events and temporary game modes are so gross to me

Especially in Halo, that should be permanent. Iirc fiesta was meant to be temporary as well 😂

[celest heron]

Well the holiday specific ones would lose their meaning.

[civic sundial]

Aye, be odd to have a winter holiday themed gamemode in the middle of July

[short flower]

100% there will be skulls, like CEA. And yeah hoping for Easter eggs too.

If there’s a LASO achievement for HCE, what shall they call it… in MCC it was “Like a Fine Wine”.

[left snow]

Not where I live it wouldn't. 🙂

[left snow]

"Run like a thoroughbred"

[civic sundial]

You make a fair point, I forgot about the Southern Hemisphere and how the seasons are the other way round there. That's on me

[left snow]

If it's any consolation we actually had a cold front come through over Xmas - and there was actually snow on the Mountain behind my city for Xmas. It was a bit freaky. 🙂

[civic sundial]

Aye, I can imagine

I still remember when once I saw what can basically be described as a large snow cloud mimicking a haboob about 7 or 8 years ago. Like, it had blocked out the view of the nearby hill with radio antenna on top that we couldn't even see the red lights on the largest antenna