halo-discussion

[solid canopy]

Didn't help it was trying to fill Firefight's boots

[craggy wharf]

I'm not exactly convinced.

[dawn briar]

Buuuuutttttt the Ark on modern graphics

[dawn briar]

I rest my case

[frosty condor]

Bro stated one opinion and said

https://tenor.com/view/kuiil-have-spoken-mandalorian-star-wars-gif-15566834

[cyan forum]

I really wish 343 would stop ignoring and replacing firefight at the launch of their games

Theres so many ways to expand upon it, especially with the way infinite utilized marines and fobs

[celest heron]

it was also supposed to have more seasons, but never happened.

[celest heron]

I doubt it was ignored, but likely cut for time.

[alpine glade]

yo who playing halo 3 hardcore

[sleek hatch]

Been trying to

[glacial tartan]

Have to join a discord for that, assuming you mean 4s and not 2s.

[alpine glade]

yea

[alpine glade]

you know of any?

[glacial tartan]

Im not in them, but I also dont usually recommend them. @stable tapir may be able to help you.

[alpine glade]

alright, i've been trying to scratch taht itch

@stable tapir you know of any servers for halo 3 hardcore?

[alpine glade]

is evasive EU or NA?

[glacial tartan]

NA

[sleek hatch]

If he gets to you lmk. I think its the mlg server.

[alpine glade]

ight i'll let you know. is the MLG server public>

[sleek hatch]

No

[onyx latch]

The Ark still exists! It is a physical location a plot can take place at! You don't need to remake a damn thing to go there!

[dawn briar]

The Joke is that I want to see the Ark on modern graphics

[dawn briar]

Or the Cutscene for floodgates

[onyx latch]

Again! You don't need a Remake for that!

[dawn briar]

So Remaster then

[onyx latch]

No! Neither!

You can literally just have a normal Halo game!

[uneven bison]

We all would probably like spinoffs

Be it the “dead space marine blah blah blah” or other

[velvet cobalt]

only one mission left to complete halo 2 laso, tbh im more scared of halo ce laso now

all i know is that im never playing this again

played for 6 hours every day of the last week

[celest heron]

https://tenor.com/view/bright-brad-pitt-roy-mcbride-ad-astra-blinded-by-light-gif-16122039

[dawn briar]

Alright my final actual point is that its weird/wrong to have remasters for two games but not the third

[dawn briar]

Which is why I recoiled when I heard they were remaking combat evolved again instead of doing it for 3 and getting it over with

[onyx latch]

See I just hate remakes

[summer viper]

you want a ''halo 3 anniversary?''

[dawn briar]

Why not

[summer viper]

why tho?

[dawn briar]

We have 1 for CE and 2

[summer viper]

the game looks fine, or do you want overhauled gameplay mechanics too?

halo 3 is so beautiful and especially for its time!

[celest heron]

we're talking about the remakes in ue5 though which only ce has done so far which is why I don't think we need h2 or 3.

By that time, h7 or whatever they call it should be closer to release hopefully as well.

[rugged quartz]

It didn't help that the networking model was the one that was laggy on co-op, which halo 5 fixed but again after spartan ops

[craggy wharf]

@left snow Continuing from this. It's too soon for that kind of suggestion until we see how things play out for it before ideas of remaking the trilogy in an episodic format.

After enduring the more extreme opinions until 2 years ago I feel like I want to enjoy it but at my own pace without risking burnout.

[craggy wharf]

4 felt in a way similar to an alpha/beta especially for a console in it's last years. Even though it's on MCC not many are willing to go through it.

[left snow]

Part of the strategy for remaking CE is to enter the PlayStation market.

If this is successful (profitable) then it's a no brainer to continue on with the original trilogy.

And maybe even further.

The thing is that once they have the hybrid engine humming... and their asset library under control - it will be less work to do H2 and H3.

Even later games would need even less work to convert.

[short flower]

Halo 3 The Ark and The Covenant on UE5 would be gorgeous levels. Oh my.

[jade pebble]

we got that

[short flower]

Halo 3 still looks good but I’d love to see a freshened-up UE5 version.

[robust valve]

Got a matchup for yall Tartarus vs Frank Horrigan

[ancient vapor]

Mah thats a mid matchup we all know we want atriox vs craig

Craig would win

[robust valve]

Now that I think about it Frank is gonna pull Tartarus appart like playdough

Assuming he doesn’t punch his head off

[hidden thistle]

So, I just made it through two missions in Reach where people died

[short flower]

Turns out, I actually don’t need the blind skull for infinite campaign screenshots! I can just do manual hud being turned off and tank gun drawn.

[hollow narwhal]

Campaign Evolved looks pretty fire 🔥🔥🔥

[bronze notch]

odd question does anybody know how to export the halo reach custom character models into blender?

[fringe briar]

someone explain to me when i solo que, why does the enemy team consist of all hero ranks on the enemy team, and my team is diamond and below. in a quick play match. it feels consistently garbage every match, like im banned from playing casual halo on this game, but on mcc i dont have to deal with comp teams every single match

garbage matchmaking is a big problem to why this game failed

[civic sundial]

Not sure this is the place to ask that question

[glacial tartan]

The other team is likely grouped up beforehand - and there arent enough people due to low population - so its either never find a game or make the games uneven

[pulsar salmon]

So I know the meme for Halo 2 Jackal Snipers...

But I'm playing Sacred Icon right now, and those shotgun human flood forms? Insanity.

[fringe briar]

except the game acknowledges they arent stacked before hand, you can check this ingame, and the game seems to think its even skill ratings, in the post match report, when the teams dont perform evenly or casually at all. the matchmaking never felt natural or good as mcc

the game feels as its designed to be sweaty, even if you load up casual modes, you get sweaty matches

its sad

[celest heron]

isn't that every mission since civilians are getting glassed. 🤓

[celest heron]

there's a chart in your game history section on waypoint that will tell you what your chances of winning were and how it expected both teams to perform. it could shed some light on things if you really wanted to know.

[sleek hatch]

What was each teams mmr?

[fringe briar]

it doesnt show

[fringe briar]

literally it was 1637 to 1640 i think

[glacial tartan]

That sounds as balanced as possible for quick play no?

[celest heron]

oh maybe I'm mixing it up with something else, but it should show your expected kills.

[celest heron]

unless they're in a party that should be pretty balanced.

[fringe briar]

it literally doesnt feel balanced cause my teams get stomped most matches

[celest heron]

well not knowing everyone's mmr, it could also be how it's distributed. one person could have a lot while others are smaller so it would expect the higher person to carry more.

[tidal raptor]

They only horrid on legendary since they one shot u instantly the jackals same with shotgun flood but heroic and lower they easy to deal with

[left snow]

The matchmaker does it's best to match team's on player's form. ie. Their MMR. Which is all you can ask.

It can't predict how those players are going to gel together. Or that someone is going to tilt for some reason. Or that someone else just had their pizza delivered.

Sometimes a team just falls apart and gets steaked.

The important part is not to assume that all this is due to hidden MMR, anything to do with career ranks, or something that you've done.

[solid canopy]

Everytime I come back to Halo 4 I end up changing my mind on how I feel about the Forerunner Architecture

Like there are plenty of moments where I go "this is beatiful" and other moments where I go "why does this look so thrown together?"

The level Forerunner does this to me the most probably. I like plenty of things about the environments but then there are all those flat surfaces that feel out of place

Or how structures manage to reject the whole symetrical design language of the Forerunners in a way that feels kind of clumbsy

But then you also have plenty of stuff that looks cool, like the pylon towers.

It is hard for me to really articulate better than this but I think in that level specifically they kind of over did it on the textures. Like they put too much stuff on there (floating mantle symbols, lines of light, big black segments, hardlight floors) and it doesn't come together like it should

[jagged portal]

The detail they put into the Forerunner architecture is nice, to me it's too busy while I'm playing. When I have more on the screen, it seems like my brain has to process more information, which I start to find distracting. I don't have that problem in every Halo game.

[solid canopy]

For sure

I think certain areas are better than others

The "Cathedral" room at the end of Requiem for example

Or the Didact's ship

With a little more of nudge in the right direction it could've been exceptional

Some of it already is

But then again that is basically my entire thesis surrounding Halo 4

So much of it is brilliant but also lost in the shuffle.

[craggy wharf]

I'm curious how this works. Site is quite different from before.

[golden hinge]

Any clan discord community servers?

[onyx latch]

#1076334026090094602

[left snow]

I don't know how the various sites calculate the odds... but generally you average the player's MMR curves to get a team curve - and then subtract those team curves to get odds of who should win.

I that is how TrueSkill2 is supposed to work it out...

[olive rover]

So far I’m thoroughly enjoying Halo 2 more than I did 1

[celest heron]

it's a great sequel

[olive rover]

The soundtrack is amazing on anniversary

And the cutscenes I think are better than the first I feel like there’s more plot to go by

[frosty condor]

Way more story than the first

[frigid temple]

hola guys does anyone knows how to solve 1366x768 problem in halo infinite on pc ?

[sullen kiln]

You may refer to #1075989764026675210 if you are in need of community based assistance. This is strictly community sourced and operated and is not staffed by any official members of the Support team.

For official support, you'll need to go to the Halo Support site: https://aka.ms/HaloSupport

[young stratus]

TGA is allergic to Halo or Halo is allergic to TGA

[winged hazel]

honestly? there was just little chance. CaE was already announced, infinite can't really be called "ongoing" anymore, and nothing else noteworthy has happened with halo this year.

[plucky flicker]

May I offer a different perspective? The Forerunners were an advanced species with both intelligence and technological capabilites beyond human comprehension. They would be more than conformable with ultra-detailed abstractactions that may be hard for us to comprehend.

[plucky flicker]

Cathedral is absolutely awe inspiring.

[sharp wedge]

Is there an easier way to farm the 7,000 kills for the challenge in mcc?

[jagged portal]

I can believe their brains can process it effortlessly, it's mine that has the issue. 😛
So far the Campaign Evolved interpretation is middle ground for me, it's detailed without being too much. I wanna see how they change The Library.

[plucky flicker]

It is worth noting that — based on the small Forerunner doorway shown in the recent Xbox Game Pass advertisement — they still are working on the designs, evident from the added complexity and heavy weather details.

[craggy wharf]

This. Besides it's probably for the best. Keep expectations low.

[rancid ibex]

I'm not really excited for the CE remake, and it's the first Halo I won't buy day 1, but I hope it's actually good.

[craggy wharf]

I need more information before I can commit.

[glacial tartan]

Yes, in my file share I have a reach custom firefight file called Elite Challenge 😄 And I have a video I made on how to do it, should take around 30 minutes

I assumed you're referring to the arch-heretic challenge

[sleek hatch]

The moa video was chef's kiss

[rocky oasis]

automag in odstff is rendered completely nullified by single shot br technique 💡

[topaz salmon]

so easy 1v1

[celest heron]

just spawn hunters in custom firefight.

[solid canopy]

If I had a nickle for everytime an Xbox franchise ended on a cliffhanger before the next entry was a prequel, I'd have two nickles. Which isn't a lot, but it is weird that it happened twice.

(I just finished Gears 5)

[warm mango]

’m looking for honest feedback on story, pacing, mission design, and how this could realistically translate into a full Halo game experiencecampaign flow, co-op, and ODST-style gameplay; DM me if you want the full script or want to help push this toward a real Halo game lol.

Alpha-Nine links up with Sgt. Johnson at an ONI dropsite and deploys to Delta Halo to locate the Index, running parallel to Halo 2: Uprising and Halo 3.

On Delta Halo, the team splits: Rookie deploys with Dare, Johnson, and Vergil, activates a bridge, and temporarily allies with Elites; Buck, Mickey, Dutch, and Romeo fight Covenant forces to reunite while rescuing ODSTs and Marines. Johnson later leads the Index Hunt, boards a Scarab, holds the line with Alpha-Nine and Elites, then departs solo to ally with The Arbiter.

The fight moves to Earth (Africa) as Alpha-Nine defends an ONI base near Crow’s Nest, meets Fireteam Raven, and assists in creating and delivering a bomb. In Voi, the team supports Raven in open-field combat against Covenant infantry, Banshees, and a Scarab, then pushes into the Caves of Voi, where Romeo, Buck, and Johnson destroy AA turrets and defeat a Queen Drone.

During Floodgate, Dare’s Vulture crashes: Buck battles through debris and Flood to reach Dare, while Rookie awakens near a destroyed Longsword (KILO-4), finds fallen Fireteam Raven members, defends Dare from Flood waves, and is extracted by Johnson as Alpha-Nine regroups.

On The Ark, Operation Trident has Johnson and Buck assault the third tower; a Covenant ambush captures Johnson until Rtas ‘Vadum intervenes, allowing Alpha-Nine to escape. The finale, “The Abyss,” follows Rookie after the Shadow of Intent crashes—Flood attack, the team reunites, plants a bomb to seal the Flood access, escapes by Phantom, and collapses the Abyss, leading directly into the Halo 3 ending.

[sleek hatch]

Ooh flood

[wooden briar]

Please post this in #1076327824924872755 so that it stays afloat for folks to give their feedback instead of getting buried in here over the next day. Great work and thank you for your expression of Halo's story!

[proper cobalt]

One year and nine months later, noone adressed that still. I submitted a thread about it and that poor bloke probably has no answer either as of yet.

[olive rover]

Is there a place to post clips in?

[winged hazel]

#1237511837201731766

[olive rover]

Thx

Oof too big since I don't have nitro 😢

[inland minnow]

you could use a compressor like https://8mb.video/ !

[stray root]

Does anyone know where I can find the Infection variants for MCC maps? I've found an archive for Halo 3, but not for Reach.

[sleek hatch]

HaloReachLibrary

Halo3Library
Add them on MCC

[dry terrace]

Survive the undead gets borderline unplayable if you die once

[olive rover]

Just completed Halo 2

[tired swan]

Is search and deploy available in matchmaking anywhere?

In halo infinite

[solid canopy]

Thinking on it some more, I've realized that the things remakes of Bungie-era games would benifit from the most can really be fizzled down to "that level wasn't the best"

Halo CE, it is Two Betrayals sluggish level design. Halo 2, it is the underwealming, overly scripted, highly linear New Mombasa section. And then in Halo 3, it is "Cortana" being heavily compromised and under-designed

FTR these are areas of each game which I believe can be improved with a remake

But beyond those, I think CE, 2, and 3 hold up just fine without the need for a remake

[cyan forum]

Now hopefully they can remake the entirety of the """reclaimer trilogy""" into something actually good 🙏

[nova basalt]

Man I forgot how cool halo 4 was

[civic sundial]

I honestly should replay it soon. I have notes I need to double check regarding the gameplay

[glacial tartan]

Its best played on the side of a large outdoor structure, like for animals

[sleek hatch]

H4 SWAT is fun.

[civic sundial]

You're right, we must teach the animals about how great Halo 4 is

Gather the creatures of the forest!

[frosty condor]

Or in a barn

[signal ivy]

https://tenor.com/HHet.gif

[summer viper]

mp or campaign?

[nova basalt]

Campaign

[summer viper]

oh...

unfortunate

[nova basalt]

What?

[summer viper]

the halo 4 campaign is incredibly disappointing

[nova basalt]

Cool opinion

[summer viper]

i wish it was an opinion

and then halo 5 rolls around the corner and is even worse

[nova basalt]

🙂👍

Sweet opinion

[woeful hill]

Halo infinite isnt worth a mention lol

Halo 3 was great but felt so much shorter then H2

[summer viper]

the correct opinion

thanks

[nova basalt]

😂

[summer viper]

but all joking aside

why do you like it? im gneuinely curious

[onyx latch]

Bait used to be less obvious.

[civic sundial]

That's because Halo 3 is shorter than Halo 2

[summer viper]

yeah nobody genuinely likes halo 4 and 5

[gritty mason]

honestly i liked 5 more than 4

[onyx latch]

5's a better game overall outside of a few small issues, most of them related to panicked backtracking from Reach that 4 leaned into.

For example, Warzone not having loadouts a'la 4 was a step backwards because it literally has every step of the mechanic except presets, user-made or otherwise.

A lot of issues with Reach, 4, 5, and Infinite honestly all seem to revolve around panicked backtracking and misguided sprints forward in weird areas, like it was designed in ill-conceived responses to fan desires and gaming industry norms. Reach is more the latter than the former though.

[civic sundial]

I guess this means I don't exist then? Because I am someone who genuinely enjoys Halo 4 and someone who really likes the level and gameplay design in 5

[onyx latch]

As I said, they're just baiting.

[summer viper]

i guess mp has it merits

but campaigns?

what the actual fudge is going on

[gritty mason]

true, 5's story sucks, but i liked the gameplay

[winged hazel]

can't say much on 5 but i actually kinda liked 4's story. the actual gameplay parts though, uh..

yeah it's a love-hate relationship. with a little extra hate.

but i guess part of that is from me coming from non-shooter genres lmao.

[gritty mason]

yeah 4 was ok

[left snow]

H4 campaign was pretty good. I wasn't taken by the MP though.

H5 campaign was much better on the 2nd playthrough (once you had detached from the pregame build up).

H5 MP was awesome.

[slender locust]

I like halo 4 because it was my first halo

When i was a little bean

[warm mango]

hello

[short flower]

So one of my firefight matches was in a permanent black screen after finishing… so I don’t get progression… wonderful

nvm I did!

[warm mango]

yo+

[short flower]

?

[brave carbon]

What is with all the people who quit in infinite multiplayer?

Out of 6 matches had quitters in 5

Hope 343 temp bans them for at least an hour if multiple reports

Go down 1-0 in objective an immediately people quitting

[solid canopy]

It has a lot going for it

I just wish its weaknesses didn't overshadow how much of it is great

I think Composer and Midnight are the levels I'd point to for just how great Halo 4 can be. Everything just comes together in the final act

Which makes it unfortunate that levels like Reclaimer and Shutdown weren't up to snuff

[solid canopy]

As cool as that could be, "remaking" or reimagining those games would be a massive headache

4, 5, and Infinite kind of go in their own directions + there are dozens upon dozens of books, comics, animations, and whatever else which are dependent on that canon

Not to mention, I'd rather not have HS spend another decade making the games they already have made

[cyan forum]

Yeh, sadly the only way for a reboot to be possible is to pull the ol' disney and decanonize EVERYTHING post-bungie

[solid canopy]

I'd really rather not

A Halo 4 remake would be cool to see only because that game is so close to nailing it and just needs a bit of brushing up in regards to level design, enemy AI, and pacing

[cyan forum]

I wouldve preferred if the flood became a larger threat for a post-halo 3 story with a brute lead covenant remnant faction running around. I do not care for any of the promethean stuff personally

[solid canopy]

The Flood didn't need to come back

[short flower]

Even in normal firefight, skimmers feel kinda busted. Their aim is insane.

[solid canopy]

And they still don't. Halo 3 kind of ends on a pretty big "The Flood are finished" note. Not to mention, because of their nature, there isn't really any way to write a conclusion to another Flood conflict without it feeling just like "Halo 3 again"

I'm happy with The Flood still kicking around in side-stories and Spin-Offs like "Saturn Devouring His son" or Awakening The Nightmare

But as the big bad of the games? It'd be redundant

On the other hand, I do think the choices made for villains in Halo 4 were the correct call. An Elite-lead Covenant remnant faction is an easy way to work in the Arbiter's civil war on Sanghelios + explore the divisions that arose from the Covenant's collapse.

[cyan forum]

Weird use of past tense, cuz they never came back to begin with

[solid canopy]

Past tense as in from the perspective of Halo 4

[cyan forum]

And now that we have the power of hindsight, i wouldve LOVED to see them again over the prometheans. 343 did a pretty admirable job with the infinite enemies, especially the brutes. I wouldve liked to see that kinda creativity done with the flood cuz even i can admit theyve never been that fun in the bungie era

[solid canopy]

The Forerunners also were a good call. They didn't really have much elaboration in the original trilogy beyond vague hints and undecided origins. Making them and their history have more direct presence was the right move.

The Didact and the Knights are both actually fairly interesting, Halo 4 just didn't do a good enough job of introducing them with its uneven pacing and (depending on the player) confusing infodumps

This also extends to Jul's Covenant who got zilch in regard to proper story presence in Halo 4

[cyan forum]

Cant agree, cuz so far none of the new forerunner characters have stuck around. The didact has gotta be one of the worst examples of capeslop i have ever seen for a scifi military story

[solid canopy]

343i's inablity to keep a story going is not lost on me. Also, capeslop?

[cyan forum]

Like he feels like a villain straight out of a c tier marvel movie

[solid canopy]

The Didact is awesome

Genuinely one of my favorite characters in canon

Once again, I think Halo 4 just failed to properly introduce him beyond "big bad". This is most certainly a result of Chief and Cortana's story getting the brunt of the focus

A 343i dev even admitted to the fact that in their mind The Didact was fairly simple as "Evil Forerunner who hates humanity; gotta go stop him" and failed to account for how players might disconnect from him

[cyan forum]

I half agree there. Like if the chief being the focus was a problem, that would effectively mean the entirety of the story is fundamentally broken. Which is what i think tbh

[solid canopy]

No, not really? It's just that one side of the story got more attention from the writers

Which in all fairness

Chief and Cortana were probably the most important thing to focus on. And their focus did pay off as those moments are easily the best part of the game

The Didact himself is a really good choice for a villain as he also is something of a reflection of Chief.

[cyan forum]

Dont agree. I think focusing on them and turning them into "star crossed lovers" was a spectacular misfire tbh. Like the writers were inspired by last of us or something so they wanted halo to become that 😂

[solid canopy]

I'd hardly call it "starcrossed lovers"

Also Halo 4 came out before TLOU

[cyan forum]

Dang thats sad

[solid canopy]

I don't view Chief and Cortana as particularly romantic, both in general or in Halo 4.

[cyan forum]

But lovers or not, making chief more "human" was a mistake imo

[solid canopy]

Hard disagree there. I think chosing to delve more into who Chief is was a very wise call. Bungie designed Chief to be a shell for the player to inhabit. We spent 3 games with him and basically knew little about him beyond "Eh kills aleins and doesnt afraid of anything."

While that worked well for Bungie's games, I think turning it around to focus on who Chief actually is was a natural next step to take

And him losing Cortana was the perfect story to actually explore that idea.

Cortana is the character that Chief, and by extention the player, is closest to. Having a situation where she is slowly dying as her mind withers away puts Chief in a very uncomfortable position, where he can't just try shooting his way out

Shoot. Writing this all out just reminds me of how brilliant some of this stuff is.

Was it perfect? No. But I think they did a great job. That entire scene with Chief and Cortana on Ivanoff Station right after the entire crew has been composed is the best moment in the entire game for me.

[cyan forum]

My take on it is chief was never really meant to be deep, nor was he meant to be the center of attention. His whole identity was "shoots aliens, saves humans". Its not even like he was ever a completely sterile robot in the first place, he always had a dark sense of humor and a very subtle caring nature towards his marine buddies. Halo just isnt meant to be about feelings and melodrama or any of this "the war is grey" nonsense. Its about humanity and its (along with the players) will to survive and win

[solid canopy]

You'd have a point if not for Halo 2 existing

[cyan forum]

Halo 2 centered on the arbiter and all it does is further prove that chief and humanity are the good guys

[solid canopy]

Thats what you got out of Halo 2?

That "humans are the good guys"

Really?

[cyan forum]

Thats what it is yeah. The entirety of the covenant is evil and corrupt to the point of in-fighting and conspiring ahainst themselves

Arbiter realizes this and sides with humanity

[solid canopy]

Except it is the Prophets doing that and not the Covenant as a whole

That is the point. The Prophets represent the theme of how faith can be used to manipulate others or be a tool of tyranny

Not just "these aliens sure are dumb unlike us humans"

I don't mean to sound rude, but "humans > aliens" is a very shallow reading of that game's plot

[cyan forum]

Yeah the covenant are just carrying out mass genocide and never questioning anything, no evil there right?

[solid canopy]

The point is that they've been lead into a war because of the Prophets declaring that all humans are sacrilege

I'm not saying everybody in the Covenant is innocent

Just that the point is so much bigger than "humans good"

Like, why are they good? Because they aren't apart of the Covenant? They didn't chose to be in it.

They are the "good guys" because
A.) You, the player are human, and therefore identify with them
B.) The much bigger alien army wants them dead

The Arbiter doesn't join humanity because "humans are good", he joins them because he realizes "the Prophets are going to kill us all"

And as Halo 2 and 3 show us, both sides still hold some resentment towards the others

(Not unlike within the Covenant)

[cyan forum]

Anyways this is besides the point, when it came to chief and humanity it was always meant to be "their story" rather than "his story". If theres anything positive i can say about 343s wonky trilogy, its that infinite had a pretty good idea focusing on a marine while chief can be a coolguy likd in the bungie era

Unfortunately, its still weighed down by the usual poorly written villains and abysmal cortana story

[solid canopy]

except the pilot is also used to show chief's humanity

[cyan forum]

Also the point is none of them are innocent. None at all. Not even the elites. Even after they helped humanity, they still walked away with much much more than they deserved. Again nothing about this war was grey in the end, humanity suffered the most and survived

[cyan forum]

Eh yeah his IDEA is good but the execution was bad. Hes just a whiner for 90% of the story

[solid canopy]

I mean. Neither is humanity. It was already established lore that Spartans were kidnapped children trained to kill insurrectionists

That is right out of The Fall Of Reach

[cyan forum]

Yeah but thats like, book stuff and the games never focused on that

Rightfully so cuz that kinda drama just doesnt belong in a story about saving humanity from genocide. The tv show tried and failed miserably

Oh and to clarify, tbh i dont even mind the pilot being a coward, just the fact that hes so pessimistic. I wouldve liked if he was reluctantly helping the chief but never complaining about it. By the end he couldve turned into the typical bungie era marine with the "can do" attitude

I dunno just an idea

[solid canopy]

Fernando's writing was a little off putting when I first played Infinite (mainly because of how many times I watched the Discover Hope trailer) but I got used to it, and it made perfect sense given his situation

And by the end he does have said, "Can Do" attitude, as he excitedly preps the Pelican to "finish the fight"

[cyan forum]

I mean i wont deny that, his context makes sense given that hes technically a civilian, i just didnt like it much in the end. I think an cowardly but willing kind of character wouldve been more endearing

[solid canopy]

Yeah, but the point isn't that humanity is good or all the aliens are bad. It has a lot more nuance than that. Yes, on a larger scale it is very easy to paint it as black and white, but that ignores the characters that make it all happen

[solid canopy]

I mean, he is willing enough to stick with Chief throughout the game. Just a little begrudgingly

[solid canopy]

I am really looking forward to seeing more the Chief/Joyeuse/Pilot dynamic under Kelly Gay's writing. The chapter of "Edge Of Dawn" they already gave us sounded great

[cyan forum]

The nuance really only came from the arbiter side of the story tho. Like theres no scene of humanity sympathizing with the elites. Even lord hood in the end is like "well thanks i guess but im not gonna forgive you jerks"

[cyan forum]

The begrudging aspect of his attitude is my problem really. Is a me problem

[solid canopy]

Chief and Arbiter growing to respect one another is a pretty good case of humans and sanghelli sympathizing with one another. Hell, we get that whole moment in Halo 3 of the Elites and Humans having to pal up before arriving on the Ark

[cyan forum]

Eh kinda, tho that was meant to be a more "cool" moment rather than a "yeah we friends now" imo

[slender locust]

Hi

[warm mango]

would you like to check out my halo 3 odst part 2 script? orn ah lool

its here

https://discord.com/channels/471722331820130324/1449527773721792544

[solid canopy]

.... "cool moment" is the majority of Bungie's writing style

[slender locust]

My favorite thing about the halo 4 levels is the architecture and scenery. I feel like requiem really showed off the etherialness of forerunner architecture, and some of the levels are just so freaking beautiful

[solid canopy]

Absolutely

The Cathedral Room at the end of Requiem (the level) is my favorite

[warm mango]

ofc

guys

[gray merlin]

hey does anyone know how to get fast foward to work in halo 3 theater?

its just straight grayed out

[warm mango]

who wanna read my script???????

its for free lol

[solid canopy]

Granted there are plenty of moments where it falls short (I.e. Shutdown, or parts of Forerunnrer) but when it is hits, it is dead on

[warm mango]

@slender locust wazzup

[solid canopy]

I'm not really equiped to go through a script atm

Sorry.

[warm mango]

equiped??

errbody is an idiot

[slender locust]

Yeah that place is so amazing

I really liked the desert area in reclaimer

[solid canopy]

That one was also good

[slender locust]

Also halo 4 has so many giant megastructures

[solid canopy]

The floating towers are brilliant

[slender locust]

Yess

[solid canopy]

I love the skybox in Forerunner

I am a bit mixed on the design of the Composer

I wish it was a tad more ominous/had a bit more gribble to it

Obviously that last bit might just be down to the Xbox 360's hardware (as were a lot of things in Halo 4)

I seriously think that game should've been an Xbox One release instead.

[slender locust]

Omg I love that level. It’s so spooky and dark. And I love the music when you’re at the didacts sphere

And the black hole thingy

[solid canopy]

So much of it had to compromised to work on the 360. From level design and enemy AI to art design and textures

[slender locust]

That’s sad but I don’t think they did too bad of a job

Also I love the Xbox 360, it was my childhood console and I miss it dearly

[solid canopy]

Really cool detail:
The chanting you hear as The Didact awakens is the same chanting the characters Chakas (aka 343 Guilty Spark) and Riser do when the Didact awakens in the book Halo: Cryptum

[slender locust]

Oh that’s neat

I used to have a crush on the didact when I was a kid

Idk why

[onyx latch]

On the contrary, that's actually pretty common to stories of this type, regardless of storytelling era.

Finding one's humanity in the fight against being exterminated-finding the drive to care, finding the drive to be someone other than what the moment calls for, the drive to remember who you are and why you fight-is core to survival in a war against something that seeks to exterminate your humanity, philosophically or literally.

Spartan IIs and IIIs are inherently incredibly inhuman, but their inhumanity is actually a major flaw that IVs, hypothetically, help correct-and Chief finding his humanity in 4, 5, and Infinite is utilized as a tool to show his improvement as a person. 4, 5, and Infinite in particular are driven by his relationship with his humanity, and the humanity of others around him.

In 4, Chief steels himself behind his professionalism and while it carries him to the end, he'd have died without his companion showing her own humanity in circuitry and silicon.

In 5, Chief's humanity shines through as a counterexample to his former companion's misguided humanitarian goals-What use is saving people if the gilded cage you're building is a cage, and built on the backs of the dead? It makes you nothing more than an Imperialist. He correctly surmises the inhumanity of a very human decision of security and control over freedom and expression. His professionalism takes a backseat to the human impulse of compassion and concern and anger, and he distinctly loses because he tried to rely too heavily on his ability to leverage his humanity over someone who was beyond that frame of mind, beyond that notion of freedom. It is only the professionalism of four IVs, arguably the most 'human' of the Spartans, that keeps him and his from being a trophy of Cortana's rule.

And in Infinite, Chief has erred back to professionalism because of how badly his attempt at humanity backfired. He resorts back to his mission-oriented professionalism. It's safe, comfortable, it works and he is more effective in his mind when he does things for the mission. It's wrong, and the mission calls for him to show humanity not once, but thrice-and while he imperfectly learns this lesson, it's the most useful experience he's had in utilizing that side of himself.

Eh, "Stoicism" is likely a better term than "Professionalism" for all of these, but I digress.

[uneven bison]

It’s not that it doesn’t belong, if anything it suits halo rather well, the show is just terrible at it. Infinite and 4 do it far better even if it’s brief in the grand scheme of their respective campaigns

[onyx latch]

I mean, that's kind of the thing about being human. It's been a message since Prototype.

To be human and a soldier is to be the effective epitome of the goal line stand. To stand up and say "No. No more." and be the bulwark needed at the moment that calls you.

[uneven bison]

I love prototype, and the idea of the human beneath armor has been around in pop culture since at least the 80’s

As a universal concept, far far earlier

[onyx latch]

It's been a major element of human understanding for time immemorial. European Knights themselves had their own philosophy on the concept that codified their martial ethics.

[uneven bison]

Historical Spartans themselves often tried to prove themselves in battle by wearing minimal or even no armor whatsoever, nobody likes the idea of only their tools making them powerful

I am positive Spartans in this context are the same

[onyx latch]

Nobility obliges. Those of high privilege, status, and capability have a moral duty to act with honor and generosity for others that they hold significance over. Holding the status of a soldier, while not explicitly being above, is still a difference of position and station, and obligates you, as someone who has sworn your oaths, to take the blows for people 'under' your protection.

[onyx latch]

Actually, Halo's Spartans are more analogous to semi-historical slightly-ahistorical knights.

In actual reality, the Spartans themselves were horrifically despotic, with most of their martial success erronously attributed and misinterpreted.

Even their code promoted abuse.

[uneven bison]

The Spartan war against the Persians has been dissected time and time again to separate fact from fiction, and unsurprisingly, sparta tried to make themselves the sacrificial lamb of Greece

In reality they were a rearguard at most

Of course, the legend of their war is the more important aspect here

[onyx latch]

I mean, it's still funny to me that Thermopylae is still attributed as a Spartan heroic defeat despite them being far from the only Greek forces there.

But then, Halo was still written before the historical analysis of Spartans had hit popular culture, which is a semi-recent phenomenon.

[uneven bison]

Sparta was among the more powerful of the peninsular city states so they had the influence necessary to absolve or wash themselves of bearing the Persians assault

[onyx latch]

Eeyup.

[uneven bison]

How do I know this? Civ 6

[onyx latch]

That and they were lauded heavily by many 'return to tradition' style movements that have been plaguing humanity since their existence.

[cyan forum]

The prototype works because it centers around different character who is explicitly said to be emotionless and uncaring. This is not the chief. Chief is not a complete robot. As i said before, chief had always been a regular guy in the bungie games, wisecracking, patting marines on the back, being buddies with johnson, etc. This is why i kinda think his whole "am i human?" schtick in the 343 stories is misguided, on top of just being poorly executed imo

[onyx latch]

Because, hey, abuse totally made us better, guys. Please ignore how every movement ever trying this has subsequently gotten its sternum cracked open and the organs consumed consumed.

[onyx latch]

And you'd be wrong, and so are the marines about Ghost.

[uneven bison]

I obviously still give the legend of Thermopylae importance as literature and art but as history it’s a headache for sure

[onyx latch]

"Chief is not a complete robot" is a functional and foundational failiure to understand both Bungie era Chief and 343i, because it's never stated that he's not.

Nobody, not even Chief, ever says that. They say he is emotionally stunted. That is not inhuman. Many humans are socially stunted, especially people who have poor trauma coping mechanisms. Like Chief.

You can be emotionally traumatized and still crack sardonic situational jokes.

Like, I've made plenty of jokes while traumatized, that doesn't mean I wasn't traumatized just because I was cracking a joke about my pickup truck going 'kerchow' while I was fully aware that two inches to the left and I'd have been a dead and greasy smear on the ice.

Hell, statistically, soldiers and other similar professions in spirit (Firefighters, medics, police, et cetera) tend to have a form of collective trauma bonding response that tends to consist of jokes.

Chief even makes jokes in 4 and 5, albiet more sparingly because he's under a different stress source than he's used to, which is owed to his unique situation with Cortana.

[cyan forum]

I dont remember bungie ever saying he was emotionally stunted, only that hes a husk or a ghost in the shell but not a trauma victim. Unless youre again referring to the books which bungie never cared about, only ever referencing it for a joke character

[onyx latch]

If Bungie never cared about it, it only shows how utterly crappy they were at storytelling.

But, death of the author is in full effect with Bungie's OT.

Additionally, showing=/=telling. They never told, but they absolutely showed it.

[cyan forum]

Well thats definitely an opinion but i dont even disagree. I dont believe bungies stuff is shakespearean but it wasnt really trying to be 🤷‍♀️

[onyx latch]

Like, 3 may be absolute narrative trash, at best a gutter charity case, but it's still not wrong when it has Cortana and Gravemind poke at the weak spots of Chief's emotional armor.

And Reach and ODST both point at how Noble and Alpha 9 had their own traumas.

It's also also important to be cognizant of the differences of cultural response and setting when you pay attention to when the games were written.

The aughts were a very nihilistic period of time in terms of societal response to storytelling. Nothing matters, sincerity and belief in the system are cringe, and objectivity is for suckers.

This is, like always, reflected in the stories of media in the period.

And insome ways, the counterculture of media in the teens and twenties of the 21st century are reflective of societal backlash between culture advancement and countercultural movements in the late 20th and very very early 21st century.

The counterculture being the nihilistic 'caring is cringe' and faux 'empathy is a sin' type movements, and the culture being things like acknowledging disaster response and military personnel are traumatized frequently.

... I forgot that I problably shouldn't be springing that crap on you, sorry, that's uh, deeper.

[cyan forum]

Ironically id say 3 is the weaker of the trilogy because it focuses on the chiefs supposed "emotions" for cortana and not enough on the the arbiter and his conflict with the prophets

[onyx latch]

Except it really doesn't. It does half effort for the former and completely stripped the post-two version ofthe latter.

[cyan forum]

Yeah

[onyx latch]

Like, you're attributing the abject failiure of the former on the wrong thing.

[cyan forum]

But even the very concept of humanizing the chief like that is just wrong to me tbh

[onyx latch]

You're saying the issue is that it went in on it at all when the issue is, for a story that touched on it, it didn't go convincingly far enough.

[onyx latch]

Look, there's a reason the new God of War games have a narrative that is leagues above the originals.

And a lot have to do with making Kratos an actual human character beyond a raging avatar of 'I hate gods'.

[cyan forum]

Yes but halo is not god of war

Thats the point youre missing

[onyx latch]

... No dip. It's a point I am bringing up for comparison. Obviously.

"But Halo is not God of War" is completely sidestepping any attempt whatsoever to understand the point I am making here.

Which is a point of comparison; The improvement is explicitly because it is acknowledging a person as being a person and deconstructing, and reconstructing, the person that they are in line with the life they have suffered.

I mean, for the point of another comparison, this is Marcus Fenix's whole deal in Gears-guy suffers and grows and changes from trauma and trying to heal it.

It's the entire point of having a point of view protag. It's the whole damned point.

You have them suffer, rebuild, break down, rebuild, and learn. Teach others. Learn from others. Figure things out. It's not a narrative failing to emphasize that.

It's a failing to be bad at it, conversely, but that's a wholly seperate issue.,

[cyan forum]

Yeah well i never said it was a narrative failing to focus on all that jazz, i said it was a failing for HALO to do that. It just doesnt belong imo. Halo didnt set out to be about that. Its nice that the books make an attempt at that i guess but they kinda go nowhere in the end cuz this is a series about avenging your bros and killing aliens 🤷‍♀️

[onyx latch]

...

Buddy. That's not what the series is about.

It's literally never been just about that.

The closest you got to that was CE, and even then it's not accurate.

[cyan forum]

Im sure it has all sorts of themes and messages but its ultimately a very simple story. Some twists here and there, but nothing deep

Before 343 decided to incorporate the books and ruin literally everything lol

[onyx latch]

... I'm reaching the point in this conversation where I remember the adage of having nothing nice to say, and not saying anything at all.

At no point in any of what you just said, did you state anything accurate.

[cyan forum]

Well anyways, theres a reason why the bungie trilogy is more fondly remembered. Heres a hint, its not the books

[onyx latch]

Yes, it's because everyone was 12.

Everything's awesome when you're 12.

[cyan forum]

Sure if you wanna believe that

[onyx latch]

It's a case of acknowledging reality when it is presented to me.

"Remembered more fondly" means nothing as a statement when you're trying to gird the statement in "Oh well it was before 343 RUINED everything" because you're just proudly presenting your extremely obvious biases as fact.

Like, I loathe the Bungie games more often than I don't out of bias, but I'm not about to pretend they didn't have a bigger and deeper plot than "Chief kills dah aliens for his buddies".

[cyan forum]

Yes i am biased towards bungie. I have nothing to be ashamed of by admitting that. Theyre actually competent lol

[onyx latch]

Hah, sure, okay.

Not at all, but I digress. Either way it's not something I'm pointing out as a matter of shame.

[solid canopy]

This just ignores all the reasons why Halo actually declined in the 2010s beyond "343i bad"

[onyx latch]

And people wonder why I say the reasoning is everyone just being 12.

[solid canopy]

I mean in all fairness,
The series was in fact more popular, had consistant releases, and Xbox was at its peak

[onyx latch]

I don't even mean it as an insult, it's just that everything stupid sounds awesome when you're 12.

The fact people don't recognize that is more of a cultural failing than a personal one, frankly.

[solid canopy]

Halo's position was basically what CoD was in the late 2000s/Early 2010s or... idk Elden Ring or Fortnite(?) are today

[onyx latch]

Fortnite honestly is emblematic of the snowball effect of cultural issues.

Because it's basically turned into "Remember this franchise you, yes, you, loved as a kid? Now you can have a shotgun as them!"

[solid canopy]

I won't ignore all the reasons why Halo actually did end up declining (a lot of them can be blamed at Microsoft's inablity to manage a games studio) but I think anybody who frames it as being done out of malace is completely wrong

[onyx latch]

(Also, can I just say, a lot of the time, people who say "I have no shame" when nothing shameful got brought up are trying to hide shame)

[onyx latch]

Oh, yeah, the inability to manage a damn studio thing is a huge factor.

Like, absolutely massive

Halo absolutely has the potential to be a 40K-esque franchise of massive side-story expansions via games and extra media

But, here we are

[solid canopy]

Microsoft just can not manage a games studio to save their life

I don't think they ever have

[onyx latch]

What's funny is, their strong intent to cross-media their franchises was kind of on the curve.

They just kept messing it up and doing dumb interference.

[solid canopy]

The cancellation of Perfect Dark was pretty much the final straw for me

The levels of incompetence on both a management and studio level are just astonishing

At least The Coalition has done a pretty decent job with Gears

[cyan forum]

I mean most of the reasons revolve around them. Turning halo into cod, cutting out or delaying classic features, microtransactions, etc. Dont worry, i dont ONLY blame their mishandling of the story on halos decline, i recognize 343 has done other terrible things

[solid canopy]

knock on wood

[onyx latch]

God, why do you people never blame Reach.

[cyan forum]

Reach had forge

[onyx latch]

So did 4!

[solid canopy]

So did 4?

[onyx latch]

And 5! And Infinite, eventually! And every single one had better forge than Reach did!

[cyan forum]

4 turned halo into cod

[solid canopy]

Once again, it isn't just 343

[onyx latch]

Reach, again.

[cyan forum]

No not at all

[onyx latch]

No, absolutely, entirely.

Reach is a game that is laden with the aesthetics of a modern military shooter.

it is an ahistorical and objectively incorrect observation of Reach to fail to understand that.

[solid canopy]

While yes, 4 did push it harder, Reach was the game to introduce loadouts, the more serious tone, the modern military inspired art style, ect

[onyx latch]

Hell, if anything, Reach was more "COD-ized" in tone. Which, all of it was generally getting its vibes from the GWOT and GWOT focused games.

[solid canopy]

While I actually enjoy Reach (warts and all), it is undeniable that it did set the stage for what 4 would go on to do

[jade pebble]

honestly Reach did look like COD. a lot. but it was also a sign of the times. game aesthetics were just like that at the time too

[onyx latch]

It's why every damn gun in Reach is laden with picatinny rails, why the enemies were turned into alien-gibberish-speaking nightmares, the game incorporated loadouts, it has a film grain filter, it tries to be 'realistic' with how your Spartan's kit looked, it incorporates tinnitus sound effects and interface screws, it tries to portray cutscenes in first person or from 'real camera' angles.

[solid canopy]

To be clear- I don't mind most of these things. I do think it is a little bit silly to say that Halo 4 was the game to change or introduce so much of this stuff when Bungie's swansong did it first

[onyx latch]

Like, I'm not even going to touch on how "CODification" is just incredibly lazy analysis that isn't even necessarily accurate, it's just also blatantly wrong to pretend 4 was somehow the one starting that crap by dint of 4 being built directly on the bones of an alpha of Reach.

As in Noble Team is still in the game's files.

[solid canopy]

Still, I do believe Halo Reach is a more robust game than Halo 4

But that is what will always happen when you have a team who has spent a decade making Halo games vs a new team that is picking up where they left off

[cyan forum]

Okay? But you can literally say this about the other bungie games. 2 and 3 especially. Youre missing the point completely btw, im not talking about aesthetics, im talking about its gameplay. 4 introduced loadouts and perks and now one liked it. Which is why they reversed it, because they knew they screwed up lol

[onyx latch]

Reach. Introduced. Loadouts.

[cyan forum]

Set loadouts

[onyx latch]

It's literally one of the things that got Reach lambasted at launch.

[cyan forum]

Not customizable loadouts. Big difference

[onyx latch]

Doesn't matter whatsoever, lmao, they existed and that was enough.

Like, I was a forum creep on the b-net on the time. I'm not about to say you're right because I scrawled threads of people whining about this for hours.

Like, I know, objectively, that you are wrong, from experiencing the criticism from a first-hand perspective.

[sturdy kernel]

Loadouts?
You mean about armour perks like running or armour lock?

[onyx latch]

You're trying to argue with someone that bullets don't hurt when they were shot in the damn knee.

Hell, I still remember the DMs I got on Bungie's website when Reach came out.

I still remember having a hunter profile picture!

And I still remember hating on loadouts because I was trying to fit in with the cool kids.

Like, you say I miss the point when I discuss aesthetics, but I'm discussing all of it.

You miss the all, to focus on the aesthetics, when the complete package is why Reach is emblematic of everything people blame 4 and 5 for erronously.

[solid canopy]

I do believe this is a key difference in why 4 and 5 did get that reception

[onyx latch]

Eh.

I mean, that's kinda whatever, I think 4 and 5 are easier to explain as a combination of like six different simultaneous cultural and game issues occuring simultaneously.

[solid canopy]

Granted Halo 4 also had the misfortune of fighting 2 other preestablished Halo games on the same system as well as coming out right before the juggernaut that was Black Ops II

[onyx latch]

yeah, that'd kick anyone in the tenders.

People underestimate the fact that CoD had basically 'won' by the time CoD4 came out by dint of being multiconsole alone, and MW2 kinda just sealed the deal.

[solid canopy]

Much as I do love a lot of what the game does, I can not in good faith say that Halo 4 can hold its own against Halo 3 in terms of gameplay

[balmy willow]

Reach was the first Halo game I played, as well as the first game I played on an Xbox,

[onyx latch]

I played the games in release order with the sole exception of Wars and the top-down twinstick shooters.

[solid canopy]

Or Halo Reach in terms of content depth

[onyx latch]

Nah, I have a bone to pick with that last one.

4 has a better unlock system and more mechanical complexity and depth.

Credits were a horrible unlock system.

Granted, 5's is still the worst, by far, because loot boxes suuuuck, but still.

[balmy willow]

The only multiplayer arena shooter had played at the time was Unreal Tournament on my grandfathers iMac

[solid canopy]

I was less talking about Halo Reach's gameplay systems and more so the amount of things to do

As well as how big the campaign felt

[onyx latch]

Ehhh... It's the same, isn't it? Except Reach has firefight and 4 didn't.

Spartan Ops, IMO, is better than Firefight, but that's more down to how I enjoy missions over wave defense.

[solid canopy]

Yeah.... hard pass on that

[cyan forum]

They existed but they didnt damage the traditional halo gameplay as badly as 4 did. Im not even saying reach did nothing wrong btw, im just saying 4 is an objectively worse game that did more damage to the ip 🤷‍♀️

And take it from me, who doesnt particularly enjoy reachs matchmaking but still put coutless hours into its forge mode which was available at launch btw unlike 4 and the rest of 343s games might i add lol

[balmy willow]

And I can say, at least for me, there’s nothing that quite feels like Unreal Tournament on Xbox, except for Halo Infinite’s mp.

At least from what I’ve played so far

[solid canopy]

Forge was on Halo 4 at launch

[onyx latch]

"Objectively" doesn't apply to opinion.

[solid canopy]

They added Forge Island later as a free DLC

[balmy willow]

This

[onyx latch]

Which you just shared when you said "Objectively".

[cyan forum]

Oh nvm, i forgot forge WORLD came out months later

My mistake but my point still stands tbh

[onyx latch]

If we're going by that metric I have much, much more room to stand on than you.

[cyan forum]

Okay?

[onyx latch]

Including knowing 4 had forge on launch lmao

[cyan forum]

Darn, you got me there 🤷‍♀️

[onyx latch]

As for "traditional Halo gameplay", 4 is closer to it than Reach.

Especially pre-TU Reach.

And 5 was closer than either.

[cyan forum]

I disagree but it doesn't really matter cuz i dont really like either

But reach had more content going for it in the end while 4 cut and replaced some of that with worse things

[onyx latch]

"more content" being... Firefight missing, and that's it.

Because that's all the 'less content' that exists.

[cyan forum]

Yeah that was a big loss and then 5 made things worse

And it peaked at infinite which was barebones at launch

[onyx latch]

Elaborate.

Bonus points, without inaccuracies.

[solid canopy]

Game modes like Headhunter, Invasion, and classic Infection got cut + no playable Elites + way too many symetrical maps that led to a repetitive match rotation + probably some other stuff I'm forgetting

[onyx latch]

People cared about Headhunter?

[solid canopy]

....i liked it

[onyx latch]

Damn. My condolences.

[solid canopy]

(Also it was the first one that came to mind)

[onyx latch]

Anyways, cutting modes is old hat for Halo, tbf.

[cyan forum]

Worse campaign, no splitscreen, no firefight again except for firefight warzone which was lame anyways. Warzone itself was really lame tbh

[onyx latch]

So, subjective, objective, semi-subjective, subjective.

[cyan forum]

On the plus side, i did like halo 5s gameplay i guess but i know that was incredibly divisive in the end anyways

[solid canopy]

Also there is the major issue of designing a loadout system for a game that isn't built for loadouts.
Same issue with Halo 5's squad system, really.

[onyx latch]

Oh, friendly reminder, Infinite had split screen for PvP at launch.

[cyan forum]

Mhm. In the end, 343 cut that out too for less in their next game

[onyx latch]

Turns out slaughtering campaign concepts because fans can't understand stories is an objectively stupid plan. Who could've guessed.

[cyan forum]

I dont see what youre trying to prove with the whole "well actually thats subjective" defense. The point is content was lost and replaced with worse, more divisive content, that itself got cut out in the next game anyways

Oh you think warzone and its microtransactions was masterpiece in game design? Well big deal, halo infinite got rid of it lol

[onyx latch]

And I don't know what you're trying to prove by claiming, without evidence nor proof, that your subjective opinion is fact.

Actually, I do absolutely know, because it's obvious.

Same reason you're building a strawman of me claiming that I think microtransactions are masterpiece design when I never once stated nor implied it.

[cyan forum]

The only thing im trying to prove is that 343 is a terrible studio and the evidence is in the numbers and the constant fan backlash and also the fact that they had to rebrand and restructure because they built up such a bad rep

[solid canopy]

They wanted it to be both "classic Halo" and also something new (CoD-style loadout shooter for Halo 4/Squad Shooter for Halo 5). They couldn't commit fully to either so the game feels very half-baked or unaccommodating to both styles of gameplay

[cyan forum]

This is not """subjective""", its 100% OBJECTIVE lol

[onyx latch]

So, by the numbers, it's objectively better performing until Infinite, where it gets murky.

And fan backlash post 2010 is frankly moot.

Because that's when video games became ground zero of culture wars.

[solid canopy]

Once again, how much of this is directly 343i's fault, and how much of it is Microsoft's management?

[cyan forum]

I mean, 343 literally had to admit its own mistakes to the fans MULTIPLE times and correct them for the next installment only to screw up something else and repeat the whole cycle again

I wouldnt be surprised if halo 7 ended up bringing back regular color and armor customization without the shop because yeah, NO ONE liked that 😂

[solid canopy]

What would you prefer... that they didn't listen to critics?

[onyx latch]

Pretty much everything you just said is either rumor or unconfirmed.

[onyx latch]

Citation needed.

Like, even by the single most charitable take-which is Infinite, by the way-Infinite's commonly claimed by the fanbase to be an abject failiure, after fans and critics alike heaped it with praise for being a return to visual and thematic form.

Like. Dude. Have your cake or eat it. Can't do both.

Because if Infinite is a return to form, and it still failed... What does that say about the old form.

Rhetorical. It says nothing good.

[cyan forum]

Id prefer they stop making the most avoidable mistakes imaginable 🤷‍♀️

[onyx latch]

So, subjective, whimsical, and entirely opinionated by an irrational fanbase. Got it.

God, I can't imagine working under Halo's fanbase. It's gotta be a living hell.

Seems like the type of environment that gouges any pleasure you had in the franchise out of you with a knife.

[solid canopy]

I hate to be "that guy" but game development isn't easy and it is made a billion times harder with "stupid decisions inc" aka Microsoft hovering over your shoulder.

[onyx latch]

Oh, yeah, and Microsoft.

[cyan forum]

They removed loadouts in 5, they halfheartedly attempted to bring back firefight TWICE, they got rid of the rec packs for infinite, with infinite they had to lower the prices in their store albeit not by much anyways, and thats not to mention them also acknowledging their failure with mcc's launch and mishandling of its pc release

[onyx latch]

One knife for the front, one for the back. Sounds swell. Real fracking swell.

[onyx latch]

Let's see;

• Not a citation
• Not a citation
• Not a citation
• Not a citation
• Yeah, that last one's fair.

[solid canopy]

In all fairness, I think that notion changed once we got a year of barely any updates, constant streams of bad news from behind the scenes, and a TV Show that felt like a slap in the face.

[cyan forum]

Oh yeah and another reminder that they had to restructure and rebrand cuz no one was happy with them. I know youre extremely apologetic and delusional, but this is really a thing that happened

It wasnt long ago m8

[onyx latch]

We can do without ad hominems.

Least of all projections.

[onyx latch]

Eh. I mean, fair enough, except for the show part, but then, I was warning people about the show since 2010.

If you ever want something in another medium, you gotta be prepped for tears. That slap is entirely self-inflicted if you can't reckon with that.

[solid canopy]

Speaking as somebody who went from "We are so back!" to "I quit" between the time of Infinite's Launch/MCC's final season and Episode 8 of the TV series

[cyan forum]

Anyways, id rather not waste my time any longer here. The objective truth is, they DID fail. They failed with all their games and all they have to show for it is the money they scammed from the fans and a brand new name to lukely repeat the cycle 🤷‍♀️

[onyx latch]

We could've been done with that three hours ago and we'd all be better for it.

[solid canopy]

You knew about the TV show 3 years in advance?/j

[onyx latch]

Nah like

Cynically? I never expect an adaptation of anything to be good, or at least considered to be good.

[onyx latch]

Cool opinion, seeya.

Yeah, I'm gonna be petty about emotes.

[solid canopy]

The biggest warning sign for me was the fact it had been in development hell for so long. Still, I went in cautiously optimistic and then it released...

[onyx latch]

You didn't even need that.

[cyan forum]

Lmao

[onyx latch]

The biggest warning sign needed was "Is this a franchise people are passionate and nostalgic for".

[solid canopy]

Yeah that too

[onyx latch]

So far, I have never once been proven wrong when I automatically assume the fanbase is comprised of adult children who'll take any change as heresy.

[solid canopy]

I would've liked to have seen Alex Garland's script see the light of day

Albeit with a little brushing up

[onyx latch]

It doesn't matter if the show is good, bad, or anywhere inbetween, it'll always be considered the worst thing ever.

I mean granted it's usually like, Okay, on its own merits, it's just that the reception will always be bad.

[solid canopy]

It always happens but it is really dependent on the size of said reception

People generally liked Andor except Mr."Star Wars doesn't have bricks" over there

[onyx latch]

Like people who are really into battletech always seem to want a battletech show and I'm always just sitting here like

Buddy, no. No, pal. You'll regret it. You won't like it.

[solid canopy]

Does Battletech have like, an animated movie or smth?

[onyx latch]

It had a really old and really bad animated show in the late 90s.

[solid canopy]

That sounds vaguely familiar

[onyx latch]

It's charming in the way GI Joe was charming.

[solid canopy]

Like something I read about on Wikipedia

[onyx latch]

I mean, exceptions exist, but also, Star Wars has primarily been a film medium for as long as it's been around anyways.

The most successful franchises seem to be movie or show to anything else.

Not that exceptions don't exist.

[solid canopy]

Sure. Idk, when it comes to Halo I am kind of split on how the general sentiment around fans is. A lot of critiques are valid, and it is clear that the series does have a lot of passionate people who do want it to go on. But on the other hand you have the sort of "343i is litterally the antichrist" types who just suck

[onyx latch]

I mean we just had a huge example of that.

[solid canopy]

I think regardless of who you ask, nobody seems to be happy about how the series has been handled

[onyx latch]

There's also the tendency of huge ego issues.

[solid canopy]

As is expected

[onyx latch]

What frustrates me is that a lot of people are just flatly ignorant of the realities of pressure in game design as well as just... Reality in general.

Like the constant hysterical diatribes about how Halo is "CoDified".

Or the constant assumption that because you like X, you like Y.

[solid canopy]

Personally, I try to measure things by their merits and take into account why things might be a certain way. Probably why I can't talk about Halo 4 without mentioning how much it is really close to being phenomenal

[onyx latch]

Well, see, if you like 4, you like loadouts.

And CoD. And clearly, you don't love Halo.

Actually, you want to see it fail. I've made up my mind. You're delusional./s.

[solid canopy]

FTR I have played maybe two levels of a CoD game in my life

[onyx latch]

I mean I do think a lot of perspective is gained by just, playing a lot of games and generally being learned on gaming history.

Or having suffecient enough experience working in jobs that actually have some tangential link and having the comprehension capabilities to reapply your knowledge to other fields in similar vectors.

[solid canopy]

Which I try to be (just bought a PS1 a few weeks ago to check some games off my bucket list)

[onyx latch]

I mean I mostly emulate but, ahem, yarr.

I mean more than just playing, though, but being aware of who does what and why. Who operates in the industry, what they push, why they push.

[solid canopy]

Yes

[onyx latch]

Like, acknowledging Microsoft as a malevolent force of publisher-driven incompetence alone is leaps and bounds above pretty much anyone who puts the blame for anything squarely on Bungie or 343i.

[solid canopy]

Gaming History is something I've been interested in since like... idk 3rd grade?

[onyx latch]

Or knowing that 343 had to essentially make a studio out of dirt and mud out of nowhere when they were making 4.

[solid canopy]

That is one fact I think a ton of people forget

Just how insane of an effort Halo 4 was

Building a studio, learning to work as a team, understanding a former studio's archaic (per Marcus Lehto) software, and making a sequel to one of the most acclaimed runs in gaming is an insane feat

The fact that Halo 4 didn't collapse under that weight is crazy

I also 100% believe it was a mistake not giving the team something smaller to start with

Obligatory mention of that one Ryan Payton quote

[onyx latch]

Or even just time to push for a One launch release.

[solid canopy]

The hardware boost would've gone a long way

Obviously there is still the issue how Xbox began its march off a cliff when Don Matrick took over

And the brand as a whole stopped being as competitive in favor of pushing hard into traditonal entertainment and casual audiences, deciding that "Halo/Gears/Forza" was all they needed to keep Gamers occupied

[onyx latch]

Maybe they'll do better if they push harder with AI.

[solid canopy]

No Microsoft, please tell me how you have made Windows 11 worse

It gives me more time to finally figure out how to install Linux

[solid canopy]

Hindsight is 20/20, but it was kind of a stupid move to make when Bungie was leaving and Epic Games was finishing the original Gears trilogy

Hell, they didn't even own Gears of War until 2014

Also, learning about the history of Zipline Games/Microsoft Vancouver/Black Tusk Studios/The Coalition will show you a brilliant microcosium for how terrible Microsoft is a managing their studios

All those name changes happened over the course of like roughly five years

If that gives you an idea

It is kind of amazing how Gears of War 4 and Gears 5 turned out to be pretty good

(Even if 4 didn't move the needle that much. Really enjoyed 5, though.)

[onyx latch]

Oughf.

[solid canopy]

The TL;DR is that they put took a team who made mobile games and then put them on Kinect projects (one of them was a Halo game btw) before pushing them into becoming a AAA game developer of a "third person action game". Said game was aimless in development, production heads couldn't pick a direction and were preoccupied renovating their studio's offices or were too busy using fancy new tech for a game that was only in pre-production or early prototyping

Eventually Phil Spencer decided to buy the rights to Gears of War from Epic Games and gave them the job of making new Gears of War stuff. It apperantly did seem to work out better that way because the team actually had a direction and framework to build from

But also developers mentioned guess what contract workers being a massive issue that created an uneven working environment

[lost trellis]

I wonder if Campaign Evolved was originally going to be a prequel story about Johnson and MC but someone got it turned into CEA2 but they kept some of the ideas from the Johnson and Chief game. IDK, but I feel a little worm in my head saying this might be a case of 343i/Halo Studios coming up with a cool idea but something happened behind closed doors because I doubt they really wanted to make another Combat Evolved after Infinite.

[coarse dagger]

They talk about the reasoning behind the remake in this Xbox interview:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2025/10/24/halo-campaign-evolved-answering-the-big-questions/

[sullen owl]

This is the corpo line though, not the brain worm version. We'll never know the truth. 😔

[plucky flicker]

I came to realise that Halo 5's mission 'Blue Team' opening is kind of funny. Aside from the fluctuating gravity in the ONI station, there's another obvious one many did not see, that being the Pelican.

Remember that the D79H Pelican's cockpit is designed work akin to a traditional fighter cockpit — with the window opening externally like a hatch that allows the pilot and co-pilot to enter and exit seperately — and here's where we run into some... problems. In that cutscene, Chief puts on his helmet, brings the jet to idle, and then... materialised into the cargo bay? What should've actually happened is Chief opening the cockpit, using his jetpack to move out, close the hatch, and join rest of the Blue Team behind.

I suppose that wouldn't have made for a perfectly cued cinematic opening.

[coarse dagger]

Not everything has some deep dark secret, or conspiracy though.

They went with remaking CE, wanted to add some extra stuff to it, decided to explore Johnson a little more

[civic sundial]

Yeah, I doubt there was some meddling to turn a project about Johnson and Chief into a CE remake. Because if that was the case, surely they would have had more work on the Johnson and Chief project side of it than the CE remake side to show off

[sullen owl]

Sounds like something a plant would say. I'm onto you.

But yes, it's an easy place to get the Playstation only people into Halo, and it also adds a bit for longtime fans to have a reason to hop back into CE for the third or fourth time depending on how you count it.

[covert hornet]

exactly

[lost trellis]

I’m not saying it is but something that’s been talked about a lot is how 343i kept wanting to do unique stuff with Halo like Frank O’Connor wanted to make a flood based horror game that we clearly never got. I wouldn’t be shocked if Halo Studios was planning on having their first tile be a return to form style game with Johnson returning which is extremely hype. Gears of war is also making a prequel story with Don returning as well. I can easily see there being some kind of ideas forming between studios. Unless ms for some reason exiles each group from each other. Idk but I think that’d be insanely stupid to prevent your work groups from talking to each other and forming ideas together.

Not to mention I don’t think I know a single halo fan who wouldn’t want a game in the thick of the HCW with Johnson returning. Sounds like a free slam dunk!

[civic sundial]

It feels like you're looking for a controversy where there isn't one

Like just because one company is making a prequel game bringing back a beloved character in a franchise, that doesn't mean HS needs to do the same

And unless something does come out and suggests such a thing happened, I don't think it's worth making out like there may have been a Johnson focused prequel in development and was for some reason forced into being a CE remake

I also don't remember hearing O'Connor wanting to make a Flood horror game

[coarse dagger]

I think you're looking for things that just aren't there

[onyx latch]

Looking through the actual model, it's not quite designed like that.

That's a method of egress but not the method of egress.

[slender locust]

Does anyone else rlly like the mantis?

[onyx latch]

One of the single best things in the franchise

[swift dirge]

The mantis shouldve been able to sprint

[slender locust]

Yes

I wanna get a toy of it, i used to have one when i was a kid but it was broke and i threw it away

Im shocked at the small amount of halo toys / adult collectibles out there

i also lowkey wanna get my lil brother into it, i was playing the other day and when he saw the flood he told me “hey look, stinky bugs!”

[keen hare]

Commander Jerome and Sergeant Johnson do. "That's Sergeant MAJOR Johnson to you chucklehead!"

[lost trellis]

I'm not selling oranges at an apple vendor, just thinking out loud is all.

More or less looking for something to discuss.

[plucky flicker]

Could you elaborate?

Because I see it designed in a way that neither pilots can exchange their positions, which would also make it impossible for the pilot in the front to move to the cargo bay.

[solid canopy]

Looking through Halo 4's theater mode getting to really look through the look and design of the levels made me realize how 4 gets a lot of the "bigger" stuff with the Forerunner architecture right, but some of the smaller details fall short

This is mainly present in the earlier levels + Shutdown

I do think that Reclaimer is the level where it looks the best and they found a good balance

[onyx latch]

Bear in mind I am not the most in mind on this; There's some elements that enforce the notion that the seats can 180 and go down, allowing pilots to seamlessly egress to the crew compartment.

It's why chief enters through a doorway.

[solid canopy]

A lot of the stuff in Forerunner looks good, but a lot of the models feel a little bit like a hodgepodge of design or are missing certain details.

Shutdown is probably the worst offender though. So much of the level's environments lack energy and feel more like somebody connected a bunch of pieces together rather than proper structures. Also, they really dropped the ball on the dynamic environments of that level. There is no context for why certain arenas just change shape periodically, whereas Halo 2 had stuff like the Gas Mine conveyor belts where the dynamic design is a direct part of the envrionment

[onyx latch]

Ah, shutdown hater gang.

[solid canopy]

I believe the level was majorly cut down

Listening to Cortana's cut-dialogue during the level points to a lot of stuff getting removed

Flying the Pelican is a very cool moment, but it not a fun vehicle imo

I think they needed it to act more like the Broadsword or Sabre. Be a dedicated section of gameplay, rather than behave like a regular vehicle

Also that final room with the Banshees is total BS

I think I am a fairly competent Halo player, but that section is beyond tedious

Too many turrets and Banshees firing at you, not enough cover or proper weapons to deal with them, and the Banshee you do get to pilot just falls apart way too fast

[civic sundial]

To be fair, from a level design perspective, Shutdown is not well designed

Like, I enjoy Halo 4's campaign but honestly, Shutdown is easily the worst level in the game

Just glad you can skip two thirds of the level

[onyx latch]

Nothing to be fair about, it's bad.

Saying it's bad is being as fair as you can to it

[gilded pivot]

[cerulean pollen]

Driving to school and a car passes by with a license plate with ODST on it

[hollow jackal]

[soft needle]

Does anyone have Halo: Contact Harvest

[cerulean pollen]

I think so

[fossil panther]

hey

[crimson fog]

Sprint.

[lost trellis]

I see what you're trying to do, you're trying to provoke an argument by simply mentioning sprint. HA! A foolish endeavor, we all already know sprint doesn't belong in Halo.

[icy pond]

[icy pond]

Just like how we ALL know Forerunners are actually ancient humans

[lost trellis]

YES! Anyone who refuses this fact is simply wrong, and has dingleberrys in their hair.

also the Arbiter, Rtas, Usze and N'tho easily beats Blue team.

[nova basalt]

So we’re being mean

🙁

[lost trellis]

I wouldn't say it's mean. More like, factual! To be honest I don't even know what a Dingleberry is.

I looked it up...wtf

[nova basalt]

Yeah

[lost trellis]

OMG the brutes have so many Dingleberries!

[torpid trail]

Ik This IS a meme but everytime someone mentions elite v spartans arguments i Just remember How Naomi broke a Brutes spine with a single uppercut

[jolly jasper]

just hit diamond career rank!

yipee

[hidden thistle]

I’m close

[craggy wharf]

More like risk of repeating that old song and dance.

[vapid knot]

I made it to brigadier general onyx

[olive rover]

Hey so I got a question

I’m on Halo 3 rn but I’m getting close to beating it and once I do I was wonder if I should play ODST, Reach, or Halo 4 next. I’m curious about 4 but idk if there’s anything that I would need to know about the other two first

Also please don’t give away any spoilers

[celest heron]

odst is like a side story during h2 and reach will give you more info about the events before ce so it's not going to hurt anything if you wanted to play those first.

[uneven bison]

Do you want to know what happens on earth between 2 and 3?

Or do you want to know what happens before CE?

[olive rover]

That’s fair I’m just wanting to play 4 rn but I was wondering if I should hold off on that

[celest heron]

you should do h4 if you want to continue with the main story, but either or is fine.

[olive rover]

Alright I’ve beaten Halo 3

So far best gameplay

[solid canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-bob-brick-sponge-bob-square-pants-like-a-bag-of-bricks-like-a-ton-of-bricks-gif-4475886

[solid canopy]

Give Reach a go before heading into 4. ODST is also a super fun, albeit short, ride

Also, going through Theater mode in Halo 4 again and I just realized that when the Knights launch a grenade, they launch it from their elbow

For the longest time I just launched it from their sword somehow, but no, the sword slides back and then the grenade gets launched

[open epoch]

Is Operation: Infinite the final season for Halo Infinite?

Kinda curious because not only is this the longest season pass, but the description makes it sound like it’s the end

[solid canopy]

Yes

[civic sundial]

You do not speak for all of us

[civic sundial]

This debate ended when it was confirmed they're not the same, regardless of original intent by Bungie earlier on (Which is to sat nothing on the differing views on the idea within the company itself on what they should be), the decision was made to have them be separate species by the time Halo 3 released

[dawn knot]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-halo-2-master-chief-i-need-a-weapon-i-need-a-coffe-gif-14868187497413318428

[coarse dagger]

Operation: Infinite may be the last major update currently planned for Halo Infinite, but we’re fully committed to supporting players with exciting challenges, ranked rewards, and community events throughout next year and beyond.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/operation-infinite-preview

[cunning oyster]

I still don’t know how to lead shots in Halo 3. And I’ve been playing since 2007 when I was just 8 years old.

[glacial tartan]

Keep in mind they travel 2x as fast in MCC

[gilded pivot]

💫

[cunning oyster]

Holy crap I think I just figured out Halo 3 enemy spawn locations. I see what they say it was exploitable. I never understood why.

[sleek hatch]

I lowkey don't lead shots that much unless they are super far away. If the reticle is red I hold it on them and I can usually 4-burst 99% of the time.

[glacial tartan]

The rule of diagonals! (And no matter what people tell you grenades do not block spawns)

Here’s the best write up you’ll find on them https://halo.bungie.org/misc/fyrewulff_spawnsystem/

[fresh pilot]

⭐

[fresh pilot]

yo

[celest heron]

don't need to do much unless they're pretty far away. I also find it helps in h2 as well.

[stoic plover]

Halo Reach is such a good set of ideas that gets let down by the AI 🙁

I also don't understand why they changed the story fundamentally from the book

[celest heron]

let down by the ai?

[stoic plover]

Yeah they just do goofy stuff all the time

I've had elites ambush me. One gets killed. The other tries to fall back by running literally into a wall

Gunships don't stick around long enough to provide any meaningful cover, but that's probably for the best considering how tanky they are

The theming of Reach is on point tho. If the AI was a little less derpy

[celest heron]

idk, I think all the games have odd things happen with ai some funny and some annoying like kat's driving. don't think the gunships are supposed to stay long other than lnos.

[stoic plover]

Having to use the plasma pistol combo for legendary also just kinda.

Bleh. I hate the plasma pistol combo. But trying to do the assault rifle while under fire from the heavy weapons elites carry is just. Brutal

[stoic plover]

To be fair to Halo. This is just a video game thing in general. It's hard to script them to not be goofy

[slender locust]

It is annoying, i have to use it for any game past heroic honestly

And heroic

[gilded pivot]

[solid canopy]

Maybe it is just the fact that I have played the final two levels of Halo 4 more than I can count, but I don't hate fighting the Prometheans as much as others say they do

[swift dirge]

Halo infinite couldve been so much better.

[solid canopy]

They are definitely a little undercooked, but generally I find them to be fairly decent. Still there is the issue of the fact that they are in the same series as the Covenant who still remain one of the best designed enemies in a video game ever. Like it is amazing how brilliantly they hold up in Halo CE

[rose gyro]

My only problem with them was the teleporting and the little drones that were way too damage spongy for my taste when paired with how difficult it is to hit them

[rose gyro]

Meh, played CE and they’re alright

[solid canopy]

I spent at least a month playing nothing but Halo CE last year, and I really got to look a bit more into what made them tick

[solid canopy]

The additon of weak spots like being able to shoot off the wings or nailing it right in the middle would go a long way

[rose gyro]

I just hope Halo 7 moves away from the classic artstyle. I’m just so tired of seeing it and it’s frankly plain and generic looking. Made worse by the fact that when I look at Master Chief, I’m disgusted at how well his design translates to Fortnite on top of generally looking plain and like a kids action figure

I also really didn’t like how the thrusters/movement system from 5 is removed

[solid canopy]

We've finally gone full circle

[rose gyro]

It could’ve been better, but it was something

[solid canopy]

I agree that Halo shouldn't lean so heavily on the classic art style, but a healthy balance between it and newer stuff goes a very long way

The artist Tekka Crow has some fantastic art exploring that general idea

As for Infinite's gameplay? While the movement in Halo 5 was very fun, I do think Infinite hits a better balance of classic and new

[rose gyro]

That’s what I’m saying. A middle ground between that and 343’s original artstyle could be good.

Like take the Gen 2 armor, add some armor pieces in some areas like the crotch and abdomen, maybe change the lower back area to look like what the Mark 7 armor has. Lessen some details like some less Hexagons. Keep the more smooth style the Gen 2 armors have, maybe change or adjust the armor on the arms to better cover spots

[rose gyro]

Classic is basically just basic movement though. You’re just removing and simplifying things to better fit that

[solid canopy]

I think Mark VII looks good as is, though making some of the armor less bulky would be nice.

[rose gyro]

It needs less bulk

[solid canopy]

The Armor Core system was a compromise of Bungie and 343i design sensibilites, and while there are a ton of cool armors- I do think they kind of weakened Mark VII's impact

[rose gyro]

I saw what the “Gen 2” armor looks like in Infinite and it misses the design philosophy of Gen 2 armor to make it work as armor pieces. They just look more plain and sort of downgraded when our next to the actual Gen 2 armor models

[rose gyro]

They could’ve added a Gen 2 armor core if they didn’t waste it on the hazmat armor core

Gen 2 in Infinite, because of the way they handled it, was basically like trying to fit a circle block in a square hole is how I can best describe it. The shapes just don’t match up right

[solid canopy]

What I mean by the compromise bit is that Bungie had Spartan Armor that was far more akin to attachments to a base armor; the Reclaimer-era games had a different approch where you basically have a bunch of individual armors made for a base

[rose gyro]

The way I remember it. Bungie designed the armor first and didn’t really consider a person actually wearing and taking it on and off. 343 was the reverse

[winged hazel]

from what i've seen, the mark x suits are quite literally just chief's armor. the man emanates bulk.

[rose gyro]

Which is why Bungie armor designs didn’t exactly seem right when it came to moving around beyond just not using motion capture for cutscenes

[solid canopy]

Infinite tried to have a "best of both approch" where they built multiple armor bases that all had attachments that could be added onto.

[rose gyro]

There’s a difference between a armor made to have more smooth rounded edges, and a armor that just looks purposefully blocky/body with multiple ridges

[rose gyro]

In the end it wasn’t really “both” cause it clearly leaned more towards classic

What I said earlier basically just sounds like 343 adjusted with classic sensibilities which I guess is the reverse

[solid canopy]

I'm not talking about asthetics more about design

[rose gyro]

Oh then yeah

It’s still dumb though that they didn’t add a Gen 2 armor core during the games life span

[solid canopy]

With Reclaimer armors were designed as an individual set. Which is why 4's armors don't quite blend well when mix-matched

While Bungie had one armor that could be decked out with attachments

There are two pieces of concept art that really get at this idea

[rose gyro]

Well 4 had you basically changing armor pieces in segments from helmet to chest to hands and to legs

[solid canopy]

Right, but the armor design didn't really compliment that

[rose gyro]

5 kind of reduced it though to helmets and everything else

[rose gyro]

Not all of the armor cores complimented the others

Can’t put much of say the Locke armor pieces on anything other than Mark 7 save the helmet and shoulder pads and that’s it about it

And that’s after they tried adjusting the armor to fit Infinite cause the designs are clearly different

Same with Reach/Mark 5 B armor pieces

[solid canopy]

https://halo.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/7/79/HR_SpartanArmour_Concept_1.jpg/1280px-HR_SpartanArmour_Concept_1.jpg

In this Halo Reach art it is clearly one armor that is staying the same underneath everything

https://halo.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/4/42/H4_Concept_MultiplayerArmors.jpg/1280px-H4_Concept_MultiplayerArmors.jpg

In this Halo 4 art each armor is very much its own armor

The only thing that remains the same is the tech-suit

[rose gyro]

Yeah though 5 again simplifies it

[solid canopy]

I believe 5 cutting the armor customization down so heavily was because of
A: the loot box system
B: because their design philsophy made the mixing and matching of Reach and 4's customization redundant

[rose gyro]

Six’s armor in 5 does look really good even if the visor is kind of just weird looking

[rose gyro]

It definitely had to do with the loot boxing

Especially since some armors just repeat but with different white patterns added to them or removed from them

[solid canopy]

The patterns were introduced in Halo 4

[rose gyro]

Cause they knew that if they did do 4 with the loot boxing, it would be very annoying for players

[solid canopy]

And really made customization kind of redundant when everything was designed to be in a single set

Coatings actually fixed this issue albeit while creating a new one

[rose gyro]

No, 5 had designated rarity grades. The lower grades had a lot of white patterns on them that couldn’t be customized or Re colored while the higher grades would either change or remove those white patterns

[solid canopy]

4 had armors with specific patterns like camo for Hazmat or a spider patern for CIO(?)

[rose gyro]

I just remember that I had like the same helmet but for different rarities and the difference was that the lower rarity versions just had these big white patterns on them that were kind of just there while the more rare ones didn’t have the white patterns

[solid canopy]

Ideally, you would get specific patterns that you could apply to your Spartan armor like any color

But instead we got presets with coatings

[solid canopy]

Yeah, there are armors which correspond to those helmets

[rose gyro]

Infinite really should’ve changed how it’s customization system worked

[solid canopy]

It was most certainly 5 steps forward, two steps back

[rose gyro]

I’ll give kudos for not making time limited seasons. That crap and the unnecessary FOMO it creates kills my enjoyment with games but having so much locked behind paywalls, especially forcefully tied to bundles just ruins any desire to buy anything

Making me need to spend $10 to buy this armor customization bundle just to get the visor color I want

I get that that’s sort of the trade off for making multiplayer free to play but there needed to be better ways

[solid canopy]

I will admit, I did spend 20 bucks on the Didact armor

[rose gyro]

I spent 20 for the Locke armor

[solid canopy]

But that was also because I had an old Xbox gift card

(I like The Didact if you couldn't tell)

[rose gyro]

Happy I finally got to wear Locke’s armor, even if it wasn’t in Halo 5, but I at least got the sort of ideal look I want for my Spartan cause I found Locke’s design in 5 to be really cool and what got me into Halo

Growing up, I wasn’t interested in Master Chief and his generic military soldier look.
Locke just had that cool, sleeker, and sort of edgier design I was into

[solid canopy]

Locke's armor is incredibly cool

[rose gyro]

But the problem is that Infinite misses what made his design in 5 work

It was made with the sleeker, less bulky design in mind

In Infinite it just kind of looks like a downgrade compared to his 5 design when put next to it

[solid canopy]

Mhm

I really hope that somebody at Halo Studios saw that artwork by Garrett Post of a survivalist Spartan Locke stranded on Zeta Halo. It looked so incredibly cool and I'd love to see that concept explored in a book or comic or even a spin off

I think most people would agree that Locke is a cool character who is just begging for a moment to shine

Halo 5 was too much of a cluttered mess (sorry, Trench) for anybody to get much focus

[rose gyro]

It was a mess in that regard

The Cortana twist could’ve been fixed with a “it’s not actually her but a rampant piece of her in control of forerunner tech now” and that would’ve made the “mystery” about it more interesting as well as not silly the past

[solid canopy]

The ideas it wanted to explore were interesting but just told very poorly and way too soon

[rose gyro]

Cause it could’ve been about figuring out what her deal is and why she can’t “remember” some things while acting funny

All the while the whole “she’s supposed to be dead, we saw her die” thing hangs over the narrative

[rose gyro]

Locke definitely has potential. If not, then a new protagonist is honestly needed soon cause Chief is getting old and I’d much rather his conclusion be retirement and maybe settling down rather than just fighting until he gets killed. At this point, that’s kind of subversive compared to stories where the soldier hero just keeps going until he’s either killed or does some heroic sacrifice and dies. Especially since so much of his arc since 4 has been to discover his humanity and hopefully break away from the soldier mindset and figure out what he wants with his life.

Who knows a new protagonist can be a Spartan 4 or a Experimental Spartan “5” made from John’s DNA to “replace a legend” that’s been raised with that one directive and so they must go on their own journey of self discovery while other themes get explored

[solid canopy]

I'd rather not go down the route of cloning John

[rose gyro]

True

Maybe Batman Beyond then

[solid canopy]

Eh, I think John doesn't need a son or anything like that

It bares mentioning that Halo is cut from the same cloth as Marathon, where the hero is ment to be a figure of mythical status- someone who appears in a different face in a different time to always battle evil

They intended that with John, especially in Halo 3 with the notion of his "Luck" and how the marketing made reference to his legendary status and coffinless funeral

Not to mention the ending of the game's "wake me, when you need me"

It is one side of Halo 3's story I do appreciate a lot more, even if that game is mainly running off of vibes

[onyx latch]

Gross, why would anyone do that

[onyx latch]

Ah. Okay. Gonna dissect this.

Locke works, as his actor likely would appreciate the work and still works for Halo sometimes (He voices Atriox in Infinite); And his character still has arc potential.

Chief's arc(s) are effectively over and done with, the man's trope is done to death. That's also why Jerome is a bad choice-that style of arc has been done in Halo multiple times. It could work with him as a distaff foil to a far more grizzled IV, as people like Palmer actually have more experience as MJOLNIR-armored Spartans than any individual member of Red Team.

Thorne coming back likely wouldn't be horrible because his arc never really finished.

[solid canopy]

But that won't happen because his actor is busy playing Spock

[rose gyro]

Be cool if team Osiris comes back together

Or at least Locke and Buck

Not to mention Locke is heavily tied to ONI, more so than even Noble Six if I remember correctly.
Feel like they could really go far with that facet about him. Maybe him actually hunt and kill Spartans for ONI or something like that

[onyx latch]

Buck's got the least sauce of Osiris and I'll say it twice if need be.

[rose gyro]

Yeah that pretty much ended when John got an actual backstory and character arc. It no longer works if the character is clearly now more than just his mythical status

[onyx latch]

He's a solved issue-Tanaka, Vale, and Locke aren't.

[rose gyro]

True, but it could also be like a Buddy cop thing which would be funny and fun

[onyx latch]

I don't think 'funny' should really be the goal.

[rose gyro]

Locke, the loyal soldier focused on the mission and basically being cutthroat, while Buck is just more down to Earth, honest, laid back, and forthcoming

[rose gyro]

No, I guess not

[onyx latch]

I did like how Tanaka and Buck actually had a lot of synergy

It's mostly in display on Meridian, where Vale shows how inexperienced she is with colonial culture

While Buck and Tanaka both dress her down multiple times when it comes to not understanding why the Liang Dortmund Miners don't like Spartans

That said Tanaka gets that situation way more than Buck does, and Locke actually likely, in practical terms, gets the angle as much as Tanaka does-but that's also kept quiet because he's keeping to a squad lead professional role.

The backlash against Locke being who he is is still really annoying to me, years later, because he's literally what people wanted IVs to be-stoic, professional, clandestine.

[solid canopy]

Part of the problem is
A: the marketing didn't really deliver on what Locke was sold as
B: Chief was majorly undermined in a game he equal billing with Locke

[rose gyro]

And due to 5’s mishandling and failure, Infinite just overcorrected and tried to be as classic halo as possible

[solid canopy]

Are those entirely valid reasons to hate his character? Probably not. But also it is understandable how that can leave a sour taste in people's mouth

[onyx latch]

Halo 5 being a failiure is a bit harsh.

[rose gyro]

Even possibly killing off Locke due to possible fan reception

[onyx latch]

But then, I'm staunchly anti-Halo fan and consider Chief focus to be a mistake in general.

It's the Skywalker problem of Halo.

[rose gyro]

I get it

[onyx latch]

And while Star Wars learned the right lesson, Halo has not.

[rose gyro]

I feel he should retire and be done rather than die in a self sacrifice way which is overdone, or just be killed off which doesn’t feel fitting

[onyx latch]

That lesson being, huge universe? Lots of crazy cool stuff behind the scenes? Focus on it! Worldbuild! Do crazy stuff! You have a sandbox!

[solid canopy]

One critque I remember from the IGN review of 5 (which gave the game a 9 ftr) was how Locke is depected as "just doing his job" and there not being much meat to it beyond that even if the game wants to hint at it

[rose gyro]

The Halo 3 ending literally comes off as sequel bait and will always have people wondering WHEN he’ll return

[rose gyro]

It is possible

[onyx latch]

Halo 5 was usually pretty well received critically and I actually tend to agree with the critics for once.

[rose gyro]

Halo 5’s movement system was definitely a improvement I liked

The 343 design also gave purpose to those pillars that were kind of just on Chiefs back in the classic games that didn’t do anything but were now clearly thrusters with the 343 design

[onyx latch]

Halo 5 had huge steps towards modernizing. People who say that's a "CoDification" miss the point-It was bringing forward elements we knew were canon (Smart link visors, Spartans aiming professionally and being super mobile, etc), and incorporating them intelligently.

[rose gyro]

The slam ability was cool

[onyx latch]

Like, CoD quite literally got to where it is now partially because it did what early Halo did; It incorporated and adapted.

[rose gyro]

Gave Spartans a feeling of power

[rose gyro]

I never like it when people use the excuse of trying to incorporate stuff from other franchises as a negative when it comes to innovation.

As long as it’s incorporated in a way that works into what Halo’s lore is then that’s fine

[onyx latch]

Halo, as a franchise, was literally built on the premise.

[rose gyro]

The thrusters made sense since they’ve kind of always been there

[onyx latch]

Regenerating health from low points was a thing in shooters for at least two years, for example

Halo just made it into a bar of front-loaded damage taking rather than the opposite (Where you'd usually have your health regenerate from 1 up, Halo's more regenerates from 50 up and doesn't regen anything lost below 50)

[rose gyro]

Swapping it out for a generic grappling hook, while I know works well gameplay wise, doesn’t feel right because it feels hamphisted by comparison

[onyx latch]

What's funny is

I hate the grappling hook in campaign but love it in MP, because its MP balancing is way more sensible

In campaign, it being unlimited makes it way too strong.

[rose gyro]

I kind of found that annoying in Reach. My health only regenerating SOMETIMES frustrated me along with the return of health packs

[onyx latch]

Like, hottish take, Halo Infinite's campaign would be 9 times better in the gameplay department if equipment worked like it did in MP.

[rose gyro]

The grappling hook just doesn’t make sense to me.
We go from utilizing thruster tech to improve mobility to suddenly relying on a grappling hook which is just way more generic

[onyx latch]

People like grappling hooks IG.

I don't think too deeply about that part, because, well, it's Halo.

[rose gyro]

I guess but somehow the thrusters is “non-Halo”? According to “certain fans”

[onyx latch]

Certain fans are idiots.

[rose gyro]

Basically saying the entire movement system in 5 is bad

[rose gyro]

Infinite’s Warzone also feels like a downgrade from 5

5 just had a way bigger and better scale to it

[onyx latch]

... There's a reason I'm unpopular in most Halo things, and a lot of that is because I have a running memory of the franchise from day 0 in terms of what inspired where and when, and I have an active antagonist position to anything less knowing fans take as gospel.

But, hey, if that makes people angry, I'll take that as my proverbial hill to fortify.

[rose gyro]

I’m kind of unpopular for essentially preferring most 343 stuff over classic/bungie

[onyx latch]

Yeah, I'd say so.

5 tried very hard to incorporate expanded universe stuff.

[rose gyro]

It just felt way more chaotic and fun

[onyx latch]

It's a product of the "Everything must have a narrative hook" styling that Halo 4 had, and is emblematic of that era of Xbox history in general.

As Gears 5 was somewhat similar in a few ways, though in more of a 'retrospective of the old COG and UIR' sense.

Of course, AI and COVID cooked Xbox's brain and it's suffering from the protests of ((CURRENT POLITICAL EVENTS NOT TO BE DISCUSSED HERE)), so.

[rose gyro]

Even though I’d die a LOT in 5 Warzone, sometimes too quickly before doing anything, worse when I requisitioned something like a level 5-7 REQ, I just don’t mind cause it’s just that fun

[onyx latch]

I wonder if I'd get banned if I said that Halo Studios should not only form a union, but Microsoft in general should have its elements disincorporated monopoly-busting style.

Oh well. I'll screencap this just in case.

[rose gyro]

The sad thing is that Microsoft just doesn’t care anymore about games and I mean more than just trying to get as much money as possible while being cheap. I mean they just don’t care about innovation anymore or competing

[onyx latch]

Of course they don't care. They fell for the nihilism virus that is power-building, LLMs, and nostalgia grifting.

[rose gyro]

Nostalgia grifting is why I wrote off Infinite when I saw it

[onyx latch]

Like, half the reason I vehemently despise most of Halo's youtube crowd is because they profit entirely off of nostalgia grifting

[solid canopy]

I do love how one of my favorite fictional universes is owned by a real world Mega-corporation who can't put out good products anymore (except for a few things)

This message is brought to you by Co-Pilot for Microsoft Windows 11

[onyx latch]

first_time.gif

[rose gyro]

The issue is most corporations are just run by businessmen these days

[onyx latch]

I do mean it though, I think most of Microsoft's game studios in general need to unionize, badly.

[rose gyro]

Not gamers or people in touch

[onyx latch]

Together or individually, doesn't matter, but they need to form unions.

[rose gyro]

Although I will say, Halo has dodged a bullet by not staying with Bungie in all honesty

[onyx latch]

If nothing else it supports unity of purpose.

Which is making art and profit, not just the latter.

[rose gyro]

I have lost all respect for Bungie after how Destiny 2 has been handled over the years

[solid canopy]

I mean that is basically how Xbox's downfall happened. Laura Fryer put it pretty clearly when she said how around 2008 Xbox went from a "Meritocracy of passionate gamers to a Corporatized envionrment run by buissnessmen" (paraphrasing)

[rose gyro]

It didn’t help when the goal to reach as broad of an audience as possible meant taking on more movie over game focused designs

Like I’m real tired of movies posing as games

[solid canopy]

Buissnessmen who build a culture where everybody tells you how great your ideas are. And that is how in 2013 we got the worst product reveal in gaming history

[rose gyro]

And “Game Journalists” who can’t solve simple puzzles yet will determine the score of a game

[solid canopy]

At least the Sega Saturn had Panzer Dragoon

Obligatory Dunkey "Games Journalists" video mention

[rose gyro]

Echo chambers are some of the worst things you can have in any business

The same with yes men and forced positivity culture

[solid canopy]

I'd reccomend checking out Laura Fryer's Youtube channel. A ton of great insight into the behind the scenes of American game development

She was apart of Xbox during the 2000s and worked at WB Games in the 2010s

[rose gyro]

The reason why so many games failed in recent years is because they were all designed with like one or two peoples perspectives in mind with there clearly not being any debate or discussion on how things should be made or formed

[solid canopy]

Gears 5's narrative isn't perfect, but I appreciate it putting a lot more emphasis on the story

I do agree with the critque of Settlement 2 not being exploited like it should have and the choice at the end is total BS

Gears 5 was the game that finally made the series feel a lot fresher as the other sequels were very "iterative" rather than "innovative". That isn't to say they are bad, they just got a little long in the tooth

[rose gyro]

@solid canopy I know you said you don’t imagine Master Chief as retiring and having a son or whatever but like, imagine if Master Chief and Fem Noble Six was a thing.

That would’ve been a terrifying battle couple lol

[onyx latch]

Why do you automatically assume they'd be a couple?

[rose gyro]

Not assuming, just imagining what that could be like

Nothing serious

[strange jewel]

I know the halo 4 forward unto dawn movie is canon but I’m curious what happened to lasky and his friends that survived the raid the Covenant caused

I only saw Lasky in the end where he entered Cryo state

[magic loom]

I really wanted them to do that global battles idea and do space battles concept they had for halo 2

Infinite had all the pieces to do that but never did it which surprised me, even could of brought back warzone firefight

[civic sundial]

One of them ended up working for ONI Section 2 and is involved in Hunt the Truth

[strange jewel]

Oh

[strange jewel]

I feel bad for Chyler she couldn’t survive

I don’t know how she got hit by the Jackels when They threw a plasma grenade

[restive palm]

Hunt the Truth was goated af for Halo 5 marketing

[left snow]

The problem is that it clashed with the released game though.

It wasn't until my second play through, ages later, that I was able to relax into and enjoy the Halo 5 campaign.

It's only the Blue team chatter in game that irked me then.

[onyx latch]

Hunt the Truth is ridiculously overrated.

[left snow]

I would tend more towards overhyped than overrated - but I guess they lead to the same endpoint.

It certainly had potential. And from memory generated a fair bit of positive vibes towards H5's release.

Going in I thought Locke was a character who had a lot to work with.

But the backlash when they marketing didn't really match the game / plot. Ouch.

[frosty condor]

“All hail the conquering hero” is such an underrated statement in the context of that commercial

[crimson fog]

Not sure if this is possible but if halo 5 and infinite could come to mcc and they just full time support mcc would be amazing but guessing that would be very demanding

[shadow turret]

Both those games would effectively double MCCs size each
And H5 doesn't have proper PC support either

[civic sundial]

It's also not worth the work load to try and make both of them work within MCC's systems either

Like, if they are going to bring Halo 5 to PC, it'll be a standalone release

[sharp pendant]

started up the halo campaigns again after beating all of them about 6 years ago

this time on legendary

[fierce dragon]

Massive W

[sharp pendant]

playing the original versions on the xbox 360 as well, been a blast so far

[fierce dragon]

Copy paste from other chat lol

[sharp pendant]

just finished H3

[fierce dragon]

In order so far?

[sharp pendant]

yeah

[fierce dragon]

Same

[sharp pendant]

halo 2 took me the longest lol, i pulled an all nighter for the last half of the campaign

roughly 19 hour play session in total