halo-discussion

[onyx latch]

It's all but ensured I will be tempering my expenditures in the future going forward to effectively nil, only towards passes or heavily discounted old kits.

Not that I'm annoyed at Uny over it

Getting annoyed with messengers is pointless

[analog salmon]

i suspect 343 have to justify how they allocate dev time and the price increases were used as a way to justify the expense of multicore

[onyx latch]

Well, exactly. That's why I'm not annoyed at them over it.

[analog salmon]

i just dont think xbox see Halo as an asset anymore, it has to justify its cost and that's why it is what it is

[onyx latch]

I don't like to start speaking into allegedly territory.

I know better than to assume hearsay is true.

Buuuut, allegedly, you're hitting the nail on the head.

[zealous panther]

Multi core expense is 0

[onyx latch]

It's not 0.

Only fools assume something that requires effort's expense is 0.

[analog salmon]

there's also the oppertunity cost from no longer double dipping by selling the same asset multiple times

[onyx latch]

And yes, ensuring things don't clip to an unacceptable degree requires effort.

[zealous panther]

They had it literally day one on bots. This is literally feature that costs nothing to enable

[onyx latch]

Oh no. Bots having something that I know from personal experimentation clips and can be messy.

Fixing those clips and issues costs time and effort, which apparently costs nothing to people who have nothing to pay for.

Your lack of effort is not their lack of effort.

I do not accept irrational and employee-harming positions.

Effort is not free. Time is not free. Fixing things isn't free.

[zealous panther]

I just deleted my post because this is clearly no use going forward

[onyx latch]

Glad you noticed before I had to point it out to you.

Thank you.

[zealous panther]

I'm sorry for your position. We get what we deserve

[onyx latch]

Yes. You do.

[analog salmon]

this has been a conversation.

[frosty condor]

[onyx latch]

Has it?

[karmic cove]

is there crossplay on halo 2 campaign in mcc?

[onyx latch]

Nope, just 3 and ODST.

[karmic cove]

wow really? thought they wouldve gotten around to adding that before dropping support

[onyx latch]

There has been zero solid confirmation about support dropping.

Only assumed.

[karmic cove]

im hoping you're right about that but to be honest the community team has been silent about that which they're usually quick to dispel false rumors

[frosty condor]

They can acknowledge (or not) anything that pops up.

As of now, continued support is there but the focus is Halo Infinite ™️

Until told otherwise from official sources

[karmic cove]

I hope so, just thinking back to when it was leaked that Infinite MP was releasing early and they were silent

before that (and after, as well) there was a trend of them dispelling false rumors

[frosty condor]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Time will tell

Im sure the devs want to put more time into fixing the game up as they have a passion for the older games, but there’s more important things to fix in Infinite

[coarse dagger]

There comes a point where you just can't respond top everything. There are so many rumours that fly around, they'd never get anything done if they responded to them all

[left snow]

There seems to be a distinct change since Pierre took over 343.

Less focus on responding to background chatter or publishing of roadmaps.

But you can't argue with the results of Seasons 4 and 5.

[crystal iron]

Genuinely I don't care whether they comment on rumours or not. They keep putting out amazing gradual updates and I would rather they spend their time doing that versus responding to the onslaught of angry internet nerds swamping them on Reddit. Zero need to constantly deal with rumours etc.

[sullen owl]

The citizens deserve answers from their elected officials at 343.

How can the democracy of the Halo Nation survive without anything less than total transparency?

[sharp summit]

I finally converted my Microsoft rewards points into credits and into the s2 pass

[sullen owl]

Yasssss

Now you're in the money.

[sharp summit]

Yeah I can get all the premium passes now once I finish a season

All except for s1

[sullen owl]

Though in the meantime while you're finishing those other seasons, you could get enough points to rollover into credits to buy season 1.

[analog salmon]

i wonder if the last Infinite season will have credits making it possible to buy every single BP for 10 bucks

[wind oracle]

Is there a chat to ask if anyone is interested in playing a multi-player match?

[analog salmon]

the lfg channels

[wind oracle]

Ah

[sharp summit]

All of them have enough to buy the new seasons using the previous one

So yes you can buy all of them excluding season 1

It think in the us it would cost 10$ to get the 1000 credits needed but in Canada its 13$ is all I know

[analog salmon]

i mean you could buy season 1, you just wouldnt be able to buy season 6 onwards if you did that lol

but eventually Infinite will have its last season and if that season has credits, you can buy season 1 and thus every season for $10

assuming of course they dont remove the credits for the last season

[short magnet]

I was about to break into a rant how I don't believe that there aren't 15 other people queueing up for Squad in my region and that I have to wait 3 minutes to find a game that lasts 8 minutes. To do this, I would go on Steamcharts and look at the numbers. Thats when I saw there were only 1846 players playing through steam worldwide. Well. Crap. Maybe there really aren't that many people queueing up for Squad.

[steep mantle]

Guys, it doesn't matter how u want to buy a battle pass. If I want to buy the whole Battle Pass, it's just gonna cost 1, 000 so it does not matter how I want to buy it with levels or not if I want to continue it.

[glacial tartan]

Im told there are tens of thousands online on Xbox, you can ignore steam counts they do not matter at all apparently.

[short magnet]

If there's tens of thousands of players on Xbox, I shouldn't have to wait 4-5 minutes for a game of Squad

If there are 10s of thousands of players on xbox. Then the matchmaking of 343 is worse than any other game I've ever played

So pick your poison, either dead game, or amateurhour once again

[sharp summit]

If only halo was on PlayStation

[sullen owl]

And Nintendo.

[sharp summit]

It wont happened sadly

[sharp summit]

Yeah it would get so much more attention

[sullen owl]

So true. The real win would be Sega getting back in the game with a console that plays Halo Infinite exclusively.

[sharp summit]

Half my friends play PlayStation so that means only half can play halo

Kinda unfortunate

The whole console wars is silly because if someone likes PlayStation they arent gonna switch

[sullen owl]

You can cut the final 2/3rds of that sentence and it'd be fine.

People play the games they like, on the systems they have access to. A ton of kids only get to play the stuff they're able to on the console they get from family.

[sharp summit]

Yeah and a ton of people recently got ps5

If someone was getting a console it was most likely ps5

[sullen owl]

Eh. It's a regional thing. In the US at least, the Xbox sales they're having will definitely sway on the fence parents one way.

[crystal iron]

is halo better than fortnite

[sullen owl]

That's up to you to decide based on taste.

[sharp summit]

I feel like halo should be more immersive, it's like meant to be for this type of game

[sullen owl]

Halo Infinite VR coming to a store near you.

Full haptic suit support and MA5B controller.

[crystal iron]

btw 1 more question is halo infinite the last game?

[sullen owl]

No. Other games are in development as far as we know.

[crystal iron]

oh ok

im ngl halo infinite might be the most chill fps game i played yet it’s just master chief and this pelican driver guy going on a trip from planet to planet

[sharp summit]

A shader, fog, dirt particles would all be nice

Like you know how some game you can get water or dirt on the screen, it would make sense for halo

[sullen owl]

Yeah, I could vibe with that. The shields kind of keep things clean though, right?

[sharp summit]

And different visor actually affect the screen would make sense

[sullen owl]

Yes and no. Could be neat, but a lot of the time it would clash with plain visibility for gameplay.

[sharp summit]

The shield is another thing I would change personally, Id like to see what the person is wearing as armour more cause its mostly blocked if they get hit or its too dark

[crystal iron]

Being able to customise the UI somewhat would help a lot with this. Changing the colours of the HUD and making it match your armour would be cool.

Oh also I tend to lower the jump height and speed a lot in custom games as it helps ground the character and make them feel more human.

[sharp summit]

Only an idea but helmets could do style and visors could do colours

[sharp summit]

Jump height is insane for a guy wearing a massive metal suit

[crystal iron]

I wouldn't mind paying for full HUD display setups and stuff though I imagine people wouldn't like it so it'll probably never happen. People also get really agressive about keeping the HUD completely equal to prevent the game being unfair, even if it's really not a problem.

[sharp summit]

I mean it probably won't happen with physical things like helmet and visor but a setting would be nice at least

[sharp summit]

Do people use clans anymore

[coarse dagger]

Yeah, we've got a section for it: #1076334026090094602

[sharp summit]

I remember some when I first started playing but they see kinda unheard of for me now

[signal ivy]

🎅 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eq7qBHE3dg

[verbal edge]

does anyone know how the hcs chanpionship pros play? is it with MKB or Controller?

[glacial tartan]

While I dont know for sure, my up front guess is close to 100% on controller.

[lime robin]

Controller. I know SSG and OpTic prefer Scuf controllers.

[misty vale]

it is 100% controller because the aimbot is very strong.

[white birch]

They were using controllers at the finals that I saw.

[sharp summit]

I always thought it was mkb

[celest heron]

lol aim bot

even if mk/b was better, I think pros would still use controller.

[sharp summit]

Is movement easy on controller or keyboard

You can move on more unique angles with controller but keyboard I feel would be faster

[misty vale]

halo infinite has all 3: tracking assist, extra bullet magnetism, and hit-box preference for controller players. It is not like the game plays for you, but it is just as much aim bot as any competitive player has ever gotten outside of meme videos where the bot is turned up to 11.

it's to make the game "more fair", but it's still an aim bot.

the effect is substantial, which is why pro players use controller.

[sharp summit]

Halo is the easiest game I play for aiming, big hitbox, the shield making headshots less necessary, aim assist

[celest heron]

all the halos have that because it would be very hard to aim on controller if it didn't, but I disagree with the extra bullet mag and I've never heard of hit box preference. That sounds made up unless you're using the wrong term. Also, kb/m players have aim assist in infinite lolll.

[misty vale]

I've used both inputs the aim bot for controller is on a 4/10 vs. pc is a 1/10 or when sniping -1/10

sniping on controller is a dream from a different reality vs. kbm sniping. It's the worst sniping in an fps on pc. Messes up my play on other games it's so weird

[sharp summit]

I used to be really good as sniper on pc but I lost that skill some time

[sullen owl]

Have to practice day in and day out. Forge your steel in the fires of 24x7 Duckhunt customs.

[sharp summit]

Any groups I can join that play infinite

Not a clan

[sullen owl]

Big branch of lfg channels you could look through. I'm sure some of them have groups available to join.

[sharp summit]

Clans just aren't that chill mostly and I want to just have fun

[lost fulcrum]

what is going on with matchmaking today lol

Game 1 - entire team leaves instantly
Game 2 - we spawn in a 4v3 (before the match even starts) and then the other guy leaves to make it a 3v3 before the timer even starts.... then we win and only get +5 lol

[full warren]

I wonder what people feel about a queue system where you can specify solos only lol. I hate joining a game to find its vs a team.

Especially in BTB where people get a 12 man team or like 6 man team where communication is just going to win them the game with how they run the flag and stuff.

[agile cobalt]

currently having more fun in ranked than in social lobbies

[rugged quartz]

From planet to planet? You stay on the same artifical construct

[full warren]

I almost feel ranked is more chill lol you dont have to get 30 kills to carry you can do just average and that is ok you can still win lol

[agile cobalt]

exactly, they need to take the sbmm from ranked and put it into social with some changes

[glacial tartan]

The SBMM from ranked is the ranks.

[agile cobalt]

yea, the sbmm in ranked feels fair

[valid crown]

I'm just getting back to the game after taking 6 weeks or so off. Did they make changes. Everyone was complaining about sbmm before the mid-season update.

[agile cobalt]

it feels slightly better but

like, its still the same ish

[lost fulcrum]

I don't really feel a difference tbh

although for some reason today I've had at least 3 games where someone either DCs before the game starts, AFKs then DCs, or straight up the other team leaves

BRO ANOTHER FREAKING AFK

[valid crown]

I've never understood the whole leaving thing. Maybe it's because I'm not great at the game. I'm mid tier platinum, but I just enjoy playing the game. Maybe that's old school these days.

[lost fulcrum]

two freaking games in a row some random person NPCs all game long..... why

[left snow]

It appears that 343 have widened the gap in the lobbies. Between the best player and the worst player. But it's not clear if this is a deliberate choice by them to reduce wait times - or a result of thinner populations across an increasing number of playlists.

Some people seem to have trouble being the best player in the team.

They can't "chill". They feel they need to carry the team to victory. And I think it leads to increased resentment towards their lesser skilled team mates.

Then by playing at an increased intensity they raise their social MMR - and that's what the MMR then expects in the next game. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for them.

Other players are ok playing at a chill intensity. They accept they can still be the best player in a losing team and that's ok.

[lost fulcrum]

thats what I don't like about this ranked system honestly

im not sure why it has to be that way

I don't think Valorant and CS2 even do ranking that way but I could be wrong

[left snow]

It's about wait times, and the fact that you can only queue in one playlist at a time.

Hopefully the upcoming Match Composer will help a lot - as it funnels all the players into the same games.

[lost fulcrum]

wont save ranked though

[left snow]

It should help there as well. You should be able to queue for both social and ranked playlists.

[lost fulcrum]

that wont save the whole carry your team though

[rotund zenith]

assuming it lead to more peeps overall getting into a ranked match then it could if 343 concurrently tightens ups the sbmm

[valid crown]

Sorry I haven’t been keeping up — how long until the match composer update is live?

[lost fulcrum]

thats assuming all those people want to play ranked on top of casual

and even then doesn't casual rely on an SBMM system where if your too good you have to carry there too?

I don't play casual modes that much but I've heard lots of players complaining about that

[rotund zenith]

hence my use of the word assuming :p

[lost fulcrum]

I doubt the majority of the casual playerbase that doesn't play ranked now would checkmark ranked when its possible to play multiple modes

My prediction is:

• Casuals will likely checkmark modes like BTB, BTB Heavies, Infection, Rumble Pit, and probably Fiesta
• Some ranked players will likely checmark Ranked Arena and whatever the Ranked Rotational Playlist is (which will help other ranked modes I think)
• Majority of ranked players will probably just only que Ranked Arena

[long patrol]

What time is winter contingency III supposed to go live? And on what timeline, EST ,CST or WST

[sharp summit]

I play both btb, husky raid, squads, and ranked arena

Maybe quick play to warm up for ranked

[left snow]

Once you bring out a Match Composer you can then add as many playlists as you like.

At the same time you can narrow the skill band in lobbies so that you don't have huge gaps from the best to worst.

As you point out, for a lot of players, particularly those of average skill, will just queue for their usual schtick and be none the wiser.

But those very good players and/or spaced squads who are finding it hard to get a match - will now have the option of selecting multiple playlists. They will soon learn what combinations get them the games they want.

It's all about finding solutions for those players so that the gen pop can be left alone in peace.

[rotund zenith]

on the steam page it says dec 19th 12pm which is in cst for me

[left snow]

There is certainly a vocal proportion.

If you don't like having to carry. Or get hung up on your team mate's performance when you lose. That type of MM is probably a nightmare.

But the alternative is letting them time out while waiting for a more suitable match up. Hence the need for a Match Composer to help.

[lost fulcrum]

I feel the system tries to make matches always 50/50 but I remember theres videos claiming that H2 and/or H3 used some kind of system where it doesn't do that but makes it quick to find matches and makes it so you don't need to sweat/carry every match

Max Hoberman explains it better than me though. Whether or not that system works now idk... but it def feels like that system would make it less sweaty

[left snow]

The system focuses on finding 50:50 matches. Which is what you want.

The problem at the moment is that it is too loose in it's lobbies. There a big gaps between the best and worst players. And I think 343 need to narrow that gap to make the games more enjoyable to play.

As for H2/H3. There is so much nostalgia bias in those claims. And some very weird maths. I imagine it was just a bit looser in it's team matching and they just put up with large number of quits and letting good players / squads go on large streaks of easy wins.

[left snow]

It won't work now. Different type of game. Larger skill gaps. Different expectations of the population.

And basic maths. If you have a squad of top 1% players - where are you going to find another team to give them "some" bad games. You can't.

[lost fulcrum]

I always hate how people claim "nostalgia bias" though as some sort of counter argument.....

if it worked before it could in theory work again now....

not asking for 1 thru 50 again over the current Bronze to Onyx system.... but it def feels way different of an experience (more negative to be exact)

[lost fulcrum]

either way there is still something that feels off.... why does Valorant feel more smooth compared to Halo Infinite? Playerbase size? system? what?

[dusk whale]

it's not an argument on itself, but an explenation of why people imagine something to be something it wasn't realy. People often claim that (almost) everybody loved the matchmaking in H2 and H3, but forget Bungee had to actually introduce (harsh) quitbans because so many people quit matches it was a huge problem. That fact contradict the statement those people make that almost everybody loved it, since many people clearly didn't, otherwise they wouldn't quit matches. Nostalgia bias is just the explenation why people believe that almost everybody liked it, because they don't remember all the bad anymore and only remembered the good.

[left snow]

The nostalgia is real.

As for 1-50 vs Bronze to Onyx. It doesn't matter - it's just a different scale describing the same MMR system. But I do think ascribing an actual CSR score is silly - it just creates undue stress as your "rank" changes every game.

[left snow]

Don't know. Probably a narrower skill band for lobbies. That would go a long way to fixing the problem. You don't have to "carry" if your not the only good player in a team.

[left snow]

Yep. And how people "remember" getting a good balance of good and bad games. Even though it was nigh on mathematically impossible to generate the same number of both for players on either end of the skill curve.

[dusk whale]

never played valorant, but the couple of times i saw a friend play it, the skill gaps in valorant were not that big. Although it's only some anecdotal evidence, i do think that Darwi's might be right.

[lost fulcrum]

the reason I am against the "nostaglia means its irrelevant" argument is because if we enjoyed it then, why cant we enjoy it now....

because I always see it pop up for other old features that aren't in the 343 era of Halos but fans want in put into new Halo games.... oh you only want it in for nostalgia....

not saying 343 games are bad... but there are features I'd like to see return that have been removed from the Bungie era of Halo games

also the nostalgia effect doesn't work for everything... if you had a flip phone (not the smart phones that can bend) and saw it again you might think of the good times of it, but would you want to bring back flip phones now? probably not...

[dusk whale]

'nostalgia bias' doesn't mean it's irrelevant, it means the memory is misleiding that person. It means for instance that you remember something as more enjoyable that it in reality was, because the negative experiences you don't remember anymore.

That doesn't mean that overall you couldn't have enjoyed it, you probably did (nostalgia bias is often the case for things you enjoyed back then), just not to the extend you remember.

And basing decisions on how you remember things from the past, can lead to suboptimal sollutions or even bad ones. That is why you shouldn't base decisions on nostalgia, but on reason and facts.

The comparison with flip phones is a bad one, because nobody is hurt if you buy a flip phone or not. But a matchmaking system that gets some randomised matches will hurt lower skilled players, because they will (almost) always at the bad end of it.

[onyx latch]

This user, I like this user.

[lost fulcrum]

that im fine with

[glacial tartan]

Press X To Party Up 😦

[lost fulcrum]

that would be a nice feature to bring back too 😭

what was the last Halo game to have the Party Up feature anyways.... was it 3, Reach, or 4? my mind wants to say 3....

[valid crown]

This is probably unpopular, but I'm going to make the comparison -- when CoD MW2 (2009) reopened it servers on Xbox over the summer, I expected there to be a massive flock to the game, because it was the best of the series. But you barely heard about it. It's a good game, but when I played it today, it was the same problems that I remembered having back then. I don't think it's all nostalgia defense is saying that the game was bad, you just misremembered, I think the point is that you can't judge it based on your memories and that point in your life. H3 was middle/high school for me. I had 0 responsbilites in life. I think that game would land a lot differently for me today knowing I have a job and a family to look after.

[lost fulcrum]

does this just sound like Super87Ghosts argument?

[left snow]

It doesn't mean you wouldn't enjoy it now. But nostalgia bias (where you selectively remember the good times) means that is can never match your expectation.

And don't get me wrong. We should always revisit the past. Learn and improve.

But I haven't seen any coherent argument for going back to a loose implementation of the original TrueSkill and applying soft team matching as a solution for a current woes.

[dusk whale]

it does, since that is basicly what nostalgia bias does. He gave a perfect example with his CoD MW2 one, since only after playing it again he remembered the negatives again.

[lost fulcrum]

didn't Hoberman (the creator of the system) say the old system was designed to have some matches would be 50/50, some would get you crushed, and some would let you crush? what's so bad about this system from an overall experience standpoint?

and if the argument against this is the bottom players and the top players of the spectrum cant benefit from this, why not try to apply this to the middle of the spectrum then try to match the bottoms with the bottoms and the top with the top as priority?

[left snow]

As @dusk whale pointed out - everyone just quit the matches they didn't have a chance in.

And secondly. From a maths viewpoint. How do you create those matches for everyone. I get it for a stock standard player right in the middle of the population curve.

But what about those on the ends. How did they get their turn at being crushed?

And what if you have a couple of very good players teaming up. Where do you find the opposition to crush them.

Simple answer is you don't. You let them go on smashing everyone. Which I'm sure created a lot of good memories.

[onyx latch]

There's a joke at the end of that I can't say here.

[celest heron]

would basically end up like the WZ Warlords playlist for parties.. dead, cause the majority of solos would pick solo queue.

[lost fulcrum]

at least for my experience on Infinite.... the first point already happens now (at least six times today)

[left snow]

The problem with the bottoms and the tops is that there aren't great numbers.

You can fix the problem with the bottoms by using bots to flesh out matches. They really should do this.

But what do you do with the tops? Especially in niche playlists where the numbers are pretty low.

[left snow]

Yep. Alongside of the SBMM, 343 need to implement better quit penalties.

Or, as has been pointed out to me before, better incentives not to.

[dusk whale]

it was basicly a system where most matches were 50-50 chance of winning, with the ocasional randomised match, with the comment that you would have some good and some bad.

But that is the problem, it's not some good and some bad for everybody. The top players would only have the good and the lower end only the bad. It is a system that actively discriminates against lesser players.

Your question why it is bad from an 'overall' experience is also a biased question, because you then deliberately look away from everybody who has a horrible experience because of it. It's would be the same as saying that if person A makes 10 dollars per week and person B makes 1,000,000 per week, then overall they are both rich. It is immensly misleading, because that statement might be true, half of those persons live in abject poverty. That is why using 'overall' or averages to make statements about a whole community is absolute not done.

And in the end it's bad for everybody, since it wouldn't take to long untill people recognise the randomised matches and the lower skilled players (who in those matches function as cannon fodder for the higher ones) would just quit, so the higher skilled people would then (just like with h2 and h3) complain about quitters ruining their matches and demand that those players be punished for not enjoying being their cannon fodder.

You second question why it can't be only for the middle of the spectrum: because you then would have no randomised matches anymore, because you would then just be back at the 50-50 chance....

[lost fulcrum]

so let me hear your take then. If the old system and the current system is not it, then what is probably the best solution (for ranked at least)

[crystal iron]

Pretty sure they left to earth

[dusk whale]

I don't think matchmaking should be different in ranked and social. Ranked was meant to be the same as social, but then with consequences for winning and losing. It was meant so the 'sweaty' players who only cared about winning would be lured out of social. If you would have different matchmaking systems you would undermine that, because people might instead base their choice on with matchmaking system they like more, wich could then either infuriate social players (if a 'sweaty' player goes into social) when those sweaty players berate them if they didn't go for the win enough, or infuriate those sweaty players (if a social player goes into ranked) because they had a teammate who didn't focus on the win enough.

Matchmaking overall should start searching with a small skill band and slowely losen it untill a match is found. This would mean that you could always find a match, where in the top hours the skill gaps remain small, while in off hours those will be bigger to make certain people can still find matches. And when losening it should find a 'counter' for every player and not just look for the same team average.
And in the beginning with searching it should also look for simular parties (so not a full stack vs 4 solo's), again with losening that too after a certain amount of time.

The only exception would be that in social premade teams with bigger skill gaps are allowed so that you could always play with friends, but in those cases the matchmaking should try and match you against a team with simular players. So if a 9 and a 1 make a premade team, the opposing team should also get a 9 and a 1 in it, because if (like now) it would put two 5's in it, that 9 would have nobody who can challenge him/her and would win every battle over powerweapons and the match will turn realy one-sided quickly. Again here with the same point of losening that requirement after time.

[lost fulcrum]

but isn't that just making every playlist a ranked mode without showing the ranked number?

I do like the idea of searching for premade teams being more equal though.... I notice a lot of matches I join are 3+1 vs 1+1+1+1 or 4 vs 2+1+1

[dusk whale]

no, because the non-ranked playlists don't do anything towards your ranked number (neither visibly or non-visibly). The goal of ranked is literaly to work on that number, that is what makes it ranked.
That however doesn't mean that that should be the only playlist where matches are equal. Because almost every player, regardless of they care about winning first or having fun first, wants that. Because even if you just play for fun, it's hard to have fun if you're completely outskilled or if you don't have teammates who can give you any backup, since that would make it immensely sweaty and you would only be able to focus on how to stay alive.

And the lack of partymatching in indeed annoying. I don't mind if it's 2+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1 or if it's 3+1 vs 4, but if it's 3+1 vs 1+1+1+1 it becomes very one-sided

[valid crown]

^this. I just want to have fun, and i recognize I'm a solid average player, but it's not fun getting stomped into the ground.

[glacial tartan]

The team matching piece I agree with and have recommended for MCC for years (kept coming up on Waypoint too).

For the main example can you use the actual scale that exists today (from 0 to 1) and show the differences in your explanation? Because what you described sounds like what already exists. You have a hidden SBMM value that goes up/down based on performance and is whats used to create your matches. So is your tweak simply to ignore averages?

[dusk whale]

you mean hidden MMR? SBMM is the matchmaking system, not your rating 😉

But can you clarify your question a bit, because im not exactly sure what you're asking (maybe it's just me, since english is not my native language and it's already late)

[glacial tartan]

I was using the terms interchangeably for simplicity (you’re right though, one is a system the other is an input). I’m asking if you could give an example using the MMR numbers of a match that is made today that shouldn’t be made (and how to filter them).

[left snow]

The MM tries to make an even game by matching the MMR of the two teams.

But there are so many variables that go into making your team viable. And as you increase the skill gap you also attenuate those variables that make a team gel.

In ranked it works out pretty well - as you are tightly matching the players. But you still get those teams that work well together (complimentary skills and play styles) and those that don't (four snipers on a map that doesn't have a sniper rifle).

I don't think you need to mis-match the teams - like Hoberman used to - the skill disparity of the lobby naturally introduces differences.

And the problem currently is that the skill gaps, and thus introduced variables, is too wide.

[glacial tartan]

Sorry was on mobile for a second. Here are the parameters I'm really asking to be considered and how we would change them for this discussion: https://i.imgur.com/80UeM98.png

[left snow]

There are already weightings applied to squads and form.

So if you are putting up a bunch of solo players vs a four stack - the combined MMR of the solo's will be higher than the those in the four stack.

Is that what you mean?

[glacial tartan]

Im asking given a players real life values (I grabbed these from my account maybe a month or so ago) how would we tweak these to alter whats happening today in MM? (You can generate other players and say in X scenario they would match or Y scenario they wouldnt). Basically lets go from theory - which is whats ALWAYS beaten to death here - into a real example 🙂

[dusk whale]

ah okay. To simplify i will just say the MMR's are from 1 to 10. Now for instance you could have matches that go 9+3+2+1 vs 5+4+3+3 for instance. On paper those teams are even, since for both teams the total is 15. However, that first time will very likely win in a very one-sided way, since who is gonna challenge that 9? Nobody comes close, so he will easily be able to secure the powerweapons every time (that alone would already make it very one-sided). And even if you disregard the powerweapons problem: that 1 might be outskilled, but it is less outskilled by the weakest on the other team (difference of 2) then the 9 outskills the best on the other team (4 difference). This also makes it so that 9 can much easily protect that 1 against the strongest player from the other team (a 5) then that 5 can protect his lowest player (the 3) from that 9.

So what i am saying is that every player should have a counter to balance this out. So in those example the 2nd team should idealy be also 9+3+2+1, or if not entirely possible as close as can be, for instance 8+3+2+2 or 8+4+2+1. Because then that 9 has an enemy player who can challenge him.

This ofcourse would be in off hours, since otherwise you should prevent a 9 and a 1 from being in the same match ofcourse (except for premade teams in social like i said).

i hope i understood your question with this answer?

[glacial tartan]

I would be surprised if this style of balancing isnt roughly similar to what happens today - I think the biggest problem as it sits today is the lower population, no?

For example, my MMR in 4v4 is 0.99989 out of 1. I am almost never going to have a counter of any kind, so every game I play would need an exception. With more players, the issue seemingly goes away completely. As the players dwindle, it becomes more obvious.

What I am getting at too in this discussion is this style of tuning is much more nuanced than "simply disable SBMM" and the other nonsense that typically comes out of these conversations; so appreciate the back and forth

[dusk whale]

unfortunately it doesn't. Most matches i have been in had 1 player clearly be more skilled then everybody else. I have even often be in a team where i was the strongest (i am just an average player), but the other team had a player i would never win a 1v1 against, because he was that much more skilled. Seen it way to often, especially during peak hours for some reason (you would expect it to happen more during off hours, but that is not my experience though).

[glacial tartan]

It becomes a very hard conversation very quickly without the data for these reasons, unfortunately 😦

[dusk whale]

yeah, disabling SBMM would be disastrous for probably 99% of the players. I would imagine that for top players it would become very boring quickly, since for that it would just feel like bot bootcamp 😛

[dusk whale]

sorry for not noting all the KD's or KDA's in my matches 😉 I hope you can understand why i don't do that 😛

[glacial tartan]

I am commenting on data collection at large, not just yours or even my own 🙂 I understand

[dusk whale]

i know, but i am not aware of any data about this being available anywere though. So untill that becomes available, we can only rely on those anecdotals unfortunately.

[sharp summit]

What's the most efficient way to grind levels for battle passes

I just play whatever mostly

[agile cobalt]

bot bootcamp is just my trick showcase lobby

[dusk whale]

depends a bit on your skill level i assume, but it wouldn't surprise me if for most it would be Firefight. And i would suggest doing at least 1 match daily, because every day your first match (doesn't matter what kind of a match) gives you 500XP on top of the normal amount. And you can also get a 100XP bonus per match if you have the premium pass.

Firefight XP works as follows if im not mistaken:
50XP for the match (regardless of winning or losing)
150XP for scoring at least 3 hills
50XP for scoring 4 hills
100XP for scoring all 5 hills

350XP maximum

And with the premium pass bonus you can get 450XP max for every match and a whopping 950XP total if it's your first match

If you still have the double XP boost and wanted to use it, i would suggest using it when you haven't played a match on a day yet and when you have time right before the daily reset. If you play your first day 15 minutes before the rest, you can use that same booster (wich works for 1 hour) for the daily XP for both days, wich is the most efficient use of that booster, since just two firefight matches (1 just before the reset and 1 just after) can then already get you a maximum (if you also have the premium pass and win both 5-0) a whopping 3800 XP, wich is 3.8 levels

[sharp summit]

is there a score difference between normal and heroic

[dusk whale]

i think (currently) the difference is just 50XP if you win heroic with 5-0. If you think you can do that, that would be a little bit better. But otherwise the normal one would be better, since you have a bigger chance of getting the maxium amount of XP. Not getting the 5th hill loses you 100XP, wich is already more then the 50XP extra you can potentially get for heroic

[glacial tartan]

Im going to give a slightly different answer; the most efficient way to "grind" would be to play whatever it is youre going to continue playing.

In MCC Firefight Doubles is probably the fastest way to grind out XP. But people usually arent lining up to queue it.

[rugged quartz]

No? Not at all

What score do you guys average in firefight

[crystal iron]

2500 usually. But if I'm being a team player and driving a warthog about 1000.

[left snow]

I guess a good place to start with real life numbers would be the case of the "best" player taking on an average lobby.

So a single MMR 1800 queuing to take on an opponent team of average 900 (Gold 6/Plat 1).

To fill in the team you end up with 3 players of 600 (Silver 6/Gold 1).

So you see the gaps we're talking here; 1800 + 600 + 600 + 600 = average lobby.

[rugged quartz]

I get 4-5k on average sometimes 6 but rarer

[left snow]

And it get's trickier if you get players teaming up. What if two players of 1800 buddy up.

You have to add in a weighting for their squad. So maybe their MMR's are now 1850. Or more.

So their team-mates drop into mid-Silver. And that's just to make them an "average" team in terms of MMR.

You can see why you end up with these weird / unsatisfactory lobbies and teams.

[dapper hull]

Will Mod Support ever come to xbox?

[left snow]

Would Microsoft ever allow that?

I would have thought it against the developer's terms of service to run within the Xbox Live microcosm.

[dapper hull]

Alot of my xbox friends have literally been wanting mods to be ported over to console version of MCC. I dont think That will happen now, but a couple years down the road, maybe.

[mint spear]

finished the event today and I can't equip and progress my battlepass unless I buy it

[crystal iron]

Mods are legal if you negotiate a developer contract with Microsoft. Bethesda has a lot of freedom in this regard but they can't use external script injectors if I recall properly. It's usually not in the best interest of the company though due to mods causing bugs and potential issues with stability.

[white birch]

SBMM works fine, we just need to de-incentivice people farming.
Thats what makes the game not fun, getting mashed by the same high-skilled player over, and over, and over, usually because they're monopolizing the Shock Rifle or a vehicle.

Of course, getting rid of farming means getting rid of the reason most people play so...we're back to square one there.

[short magnet]

I need a new Halo game... Infinite and MCC doesn't have enough players to enjoy multiplayer anymore. I spent more time searching for games than I am playing games.

[short magnet]

Just hopped into Theater because I thought a guy was so good he must be hacking. But no. He was just using a controller.

[analog salmon]

it just needs a server selector or latency slider so we can play on East US servers lol

Infinite has the player count

it just wont let you actually play with all the players within an acceptable ping range

[short magnet]

What is acceptable to you?

[analog salmon]

MCC only remained playable for me this long because of the ability to play on East US and only East US servers

[crystal iron]

Huskie raid, quickplay, and firefight are the most populated EU server options. You're not gonna find another halo game with faster search times.

[sick lotus]

What's up with the flood spawn rates on the last few Halo:CE missions? I'm on Keyes and there are sections on the ship where you just get swarmed for up to 5 minutes!

[analog salmon]

let me check one sec

[short magnet]

who wants to play Respawn simulator Husky Raid?..

[analog salmon]

you keep hittingg a trigger proabably

CE is a strange game, it starts to get easier once you are able to keep a pace through missions

[sick lotus]

yeah, but in tight hallways you can't really push through. The flood loves melee combat.

Might have to do co-op to beat it.

[analog salmon]

with just these selected i've never had major issues

[short magnet]

ah

You a controller player, Reckon?

[analog salmon]

im both but kbm in Infinite

[short magnet]

and on mcc?

[analog salmon]

depends on the game

reach is controller only, the rest i can probably switch

[short magnet]

But do you? Because I wouldn't play 100ms on MnK, I'd rather pick one of a hundred other games

[analog salmon]

its fine for social imo

i think it just depends how much you wanna play halo

for me its really the only fps im very good at. im just average in most others

and ur skill doesn't transfer that much to other games

[short magnet]

Yeah Halo has very much visual clarity and a low TTK that I enjoy too...

But I just recently came back to Halo like two weeks ago. And the honeymoon period is over.

So now when I get sniped by some guy with a controller and aim assist and bullet magnetism so often that he goes 42 kills to 9 deaths... I feel like uninstalling.

[crystal iron]

The aim assist really isn't that bad and is incredibly overstated, anyone with moderate skill can ignore it and do fine.

[short magnet]

And I'm not talking down on the guy. He was really good. I've rewatched the play through his eyes and he has a lot of understanding of the game. He really wasn't cheating. But it's the flick shots that get me. Whereas I can't flick shot with the S7 to ave my life, it feels like he does it effortless.

[analog salmon]

that's why i just dont play reach with kbm

[short magnet]

In Valorant, I'm able to click heads in a matter of frames

[analog salmon]

i think its the least balanced title. infinite was pretty bad before they added mouse friction/AA

its so insanely hard to aim in reach with kbm yet im pretty much the same skill in Infinite with either input

2 is also pretty bad with kbm

[short magnet]

On Reach I am able to snipe people properly with kbm

[analog salmon]

that's just cause sniping is far easier in Reach then prior titles

Reach/4/2AMP/5 all have insane sniper bullet magnetism

you can basically miss and get a headshot

[crystal iron]

Aiming is a lot harder in infinite, the sniper has negative aim assist when you hip-fire as well, or did if they've changed it since launch.

[short magnet]

...What? Negative aim assist?

[analog salmon]

it was spread and they removed it

[short magnet]

are you sure it was removed? Because it would explain alof of my experiences

[crystal iron]

Yeah at one point it would push you away from the target if you shot with hipfire. There were a bunch of small tweaks that made it awkward. Overall halo 5 had the friendliest aim system because of the literal holo and hud system.

[analog salmon]

yes the sniper has minimal or no spread

its not negative aim assist, the bullet just didnt land on ur reticle

[short magnet]

no I feel like I['m fighting my reticle

[analog salmon]

why it wasn't an issue in 5 is because 5 had bullet magnetism

a lot more of it i should say, im sure infinite has a little bit

so basically 5's sniper has spread and strong bullet magnetism which counter the spread

Infinite at launch lacked the latter

i think it was frankly just an oversight by 343. i dont really like how they addressed it as if every halo game's sniper missed even when you were on target

[short magnet]

hmmm I'm not sure about anything you're saying

[analog salmon]

spread causes your bullet not to fire at the middle of the reticle

hence why you can miss if your reticle is on target

bullet magentism does the opposite and causes your bullets to hit the target even though your reticle was off

[short magnet]

Oh I'm not confused about what you're saying, I just don't believe it

[analog salmon]

if you are on target and you dont get a hit its cause of the servers, not an intention design decision

that wasn't the case when infinite's sniper had spread

if you dont believe it just load up the match in threatre and you will see from the server's perspective you didnt land whatever shot you think you landed

[short magnet]

No when I'm on target, I hit. It's just an absolute struggle to get on target with the S7. Whereas with a bandit, or BR I don't have any of those issues

[analog salmon]

there's nothing preventing you hitting the target besides your ability to aim the reticle at the player my friend

bandit / BR have aim assist for kbm

[short magnet]

Nah, I'm convinced that here is foul play with the S7. I can feel there's something off.

Valorant with much smaller hitboxes and absolutely no aim assist whatsoever, no problem. Easy low diamond. I know how shooters are supposed to feel and to work. Something feels off about the S7 in Halo

[analog salmon]

movement is faster and ramp up time is instantanous

like your talking about tracking a slow moving head vs a head flying across your screen, it's not even comparable

consider why you jump strafe in valorant but would never do that in halo

[quick pagoda]

Halo 5 is the easiest to snipe

[quick pagoda]

Low ttk ? On Halo ? Youre crying about aim assist, but didnt Halo Infinite have aim assist on kbm too ?

This is a game made for controller, you guys from PC arrived here years later and are trying to dictate the rules of the game

[quick pagoda]

You have to move forward, there are some parts with infinite spawning flood

[sick lotus]

It's just that the carrier forms are so creepy. Throw a grenade and they fly straight into your face.

[short magnet]

Lol easiest way to completely disregard what you're saying, cheers for saving me the time

[analog salmon]

ive been playing halo since CE and its a fun game with kbm as well as controller

it's a first person shooter, its gonna be fun on kbm and the developer is going to cater to people who prefer kbm

a lot of whom are long time players who either only played the PC releases or just preferred kbm when they got a gaming PC

both extremes "its a controller game and shouldnt cater to kbm" and "its a first person shooter and shouldn't cater to controller" are just pointless takes

[meager monolith]

dya reckon there's any plans to add the helmet attachments to all helmets? or just ones that can fit the models well

[sharp summit]

I feel like there is a lot that could be cross-helmet but aren't, lots of opportunity for that area

[meager monolith]

AGREED!

whoops caps lock

ahem

Agreed.

[misty vale]

Total lies. It is substantial on controller and actively messes you up as a sniper on kbm. Weirdest sniping in an fps in a long time.

[sharp summit]

I swear the AR was buffed, it used to be useless to me and now I can get a lot of kills with it

Anyone know of any changes to it

[wind oracle]

Is there a way to download a mod to a consol?

[coarse dagger]

No, mods aren't supported on Console right now

[sharp summit]

You just don't aim very well then the ig

Sniper is just a more precise weapons and requires a very well place shot

[misty vale]

You can ask basically anyone who plays a variety of FPS on kbm about Halo Infinite's negative aim assist on sniping. We understand it's here for fairness, but it is real

it's so, so much worse than Val, CS, OW

[grave ether]

Need to turn your brain off. I can't snipe if I'm thinking. Panik snapping works almost every time

[misty vale]

I get more kills not zooming in, in H:I.

[grave ether]

There's a zoom?

[misty vale]

might as well unbind it lol

[sharp summit]

Quick scope all the way

[misty vale]

well with the hitbox preference there's not actually too much reason to quick zoom even.

[grave ether]

I joke, but honestly, a quick zoom (to where you aren't actually looking but a button tape) activates the aim assist better and drags it to the head for quick pew boom

[sharp summit]

I find it easier than other games to snipe in halo

Larger hitboxes help a lot

[misty vale]

the only reason it's harder in OW is because there strafe acceleration and lack of quickzoom

[grave ether]

Once I got used to it, but I still struggle sometimes. I think for me I get tripped up because there is a visual bullet drop that makes it feel like you have to lead your shots but it's actually hit scan
(Or iirc it's technically a projectile, but it's so fast it functions as a hit scan)

[misty vale]

you have to lead a little bit in H:I

[grave ether]

It definitely feels different than other games, including halo5

[misty vale]

it's not like it's hard to snipe in this game, the physics are sooo floaty - don't get me wrong here.

but there is negative aim bot when you are zoomed in on kbm.

[grave ether]

Sometimes! That's the weird part. Sometimes if I lead ever so slightly it works, other times it feels like it over shoots. I haven't played much in the networking playlist yet to see if maybe that's part of it

[sharp summit]

Yeah halo physics make it seem like everything is really light

Massive metal suit having that kind of jump is crazy

[grave ether]

Sometimes I feel like I'm trailing behind

[misty vale]

So I think the negative aim assist is for that reason - I'd be unstoppable like in CE if the game didn't miss them with that

and you can't have unstoppable snipers in your free game, folks won't stick around to buy dress up

[grave ether]

Sometimes my control settings feel tuned in, other times I feel like I need to tweak my settings ever so slightly. It's weird

[misty vale]

same reason controller players get the positive bot on both unzoom and zoomed shooting is to make the game more approachable

but folks are calling water dry if they think that the aim bot in Halo isn't substantial

[sharp summit]

On mkb you need your hand to be relaxed and light on the mouse

[misty vale]

I do just fine in the game, I think my KD is 4:1 and my KAD is like 7:1.

so I'm not really suffering

[grave ether]

I'm just happy that when I bump my mouse, it doesn't get rid of the AA by switching over to KMB mode and get stuck there like it used to sometimes even though I'm on controller. That was frustrating lol
(Disclosure, I sometimes play split play with half controller half mouse. KB aggravates an old wrist injury)

[misty vale]

eh it's less than it used to be. Win% is below 60% now!

must be all that husky raid

[grave ether]

Wish there was a way to filter out game modes when looking at your "overall". I know fiesta and that playlist with the floating and the needlers hurt me because those are my worst game modes

[misty vale]

It's not a serious game, so Idc. Husky raid is fun af

[glacial tartan]

Basically my contention is lobbies like this should probably not be happening. https://i.imgur.com/1x0SNcR.png

And it shouldnt be impossible to prevent it.

[sullen owl]

Just play worse.

[celest heron]

https://fxtwitter.com/HaloSupport/status/1737179898580775166

[thorny zenith]

I just played the original trilogy plus ODST and Reach and I absolutely loved them but I have a question. Was Halo 3 supposed to be the last cause I dont get it, I heard about people saying that 4 5 and infinite are not made by the same studio or something and that they are worse or something so Im just wondering

[frosty condor]

Correct

Halo: CE -> Reach were all made by Bungie

Their original plan was to have H3 be the end of the triliogy

Legendary ending on H3 shows the ship floating to a forerunner planet, leaving the door open to expand for future games.

Under the contract of Microsoft, Bungie had to make one more game. Therefore, they made Reach

From that point, 343 Industries was created to continue the legacy of Halo

4, 5, and Infinite (and Halo Wars) is all 343

[crystal iron]

Ok I just woke up, but I have to ask, Has anyone unlocked the gloves with the Jingle knuckles .. so do they jingle when you melee?

[signal ivy]

really?

[frosty condor]

woah?

[sharp summit]

Are they part of the event

[signal ivy]

that's awesome ngl

[crystal iron]

I'm asking if they do

[frosty condor]

oh

Spend the 2000 credits and unlock them to find out

[sharp summit]

Why is everything credits

[smoky forge]

History time:
Halo CE (2001). Smash hit, Microsoft says "please make another Halo for xbox".
Halo 2 (2004), huge crunch to get it out the door for a number of reasons.
Bungie didn't really WANT to make Halo forever (paraphrasing a bunch of different people's opinions)
Bungie makes a contract to make three more games and then they'll be on their own.
Microsoft spins up 343 industries (2007)
Bungie makes: H3 (2007), ODST (2009), and Reach (2010)

[slim flint]

Halo Wars 1 was made by Ensemble Studios

[frosty condor]

True, with the oversight of 343

But you are correct

[smoky forge]

It is kinda ridiculous how jam packed 2001 -> 2011 was for gaming. There's plenty of good titles for every niche dropping today, but the amount of progress in that one decade will likely never be surpassed

[frosty condor]

100%

I'm so happy I got to experience it as a teenager/young adult

From playing H2 at church events, memorable H3 clips & MLG, to playing Reach in Iraq

and the opportunity to play ODST's Firefight from the ODST truck that Bungie drove across country

Highest player to score the most points earned the "My other car is a Warthog" license plate bracket

(which I still have on my car now)

[smoky forge]

It was a wild time

[crystal iron]

They are in the free event pass

[short magnet]

True, thats why that game was a are bangers. While 343 is still trying to figure out how to Halo right, 16 years after they've been founded.

[thorny zenith]

Thats what I was getting to. Bungie didnt want to make the legendary ending, they were just forced to do it for 343 to continue the series right?

[frosty condor]

Perhaps

[coarse dagger]

Can honestly say I've never heard this before

[young glen]

Those are some cool changes. It's awesome how quickly 343 took on our feedback here.

[thorny zenith]

I just find the ending for h3 so perfect and it annoys me that the legendary ending somewhat has a continuation for the series

they should've left h3 for what it is

[rugged quartz]

Halo 3's story could have been better in characters, themes, dialogue

[frosty condor]

That I can agree on ^

[zinc flax]

If Master Chief ever dies, it will only make sense if we take over as the Arbiter in the epilogue portion of the game

[rugged quartz]

And the Halo universe is a vast and rich one

[thorny zenith]

I dont know, The Legendary ending for Halo 3 seems soooo forced. The iconic: "Spartans never die, they just go missing in action" just fits this ending perfectly, Chief didn't even die, he's just in space drifting away not knowing if anyone will ever find him, which they probably wouldnt

[rugged quartz]

The terminals make it clear that Mendicant Bias intervened

[zinc flax]

I feel like Bungie didn’t know what to do with the ending

[crystal iron]

Why won't my omen wall mid, and my raze rez me when I ask or my killjoy heal? They never listen to my coms

[rugged quartz]

What?

[thorny zenith]

What? It literally couldn't feel more like an ending. You finish the covenant by killing Truth. You finish the Flood by firing the Halo. and Masterchief is MIA just as the saying goes "Spartans never die, they just go missing in action". In the ending of Halo CE, Master Chief says: Were just getting started, and In Halo 3 he says: It's finished. At the beginning of Halo CE Master Chief gets out of a cryo-tube while in Halo 3 at the end He gets into one. The last mission is literally a warthog run just like in CE except you do it where everything started, the original Halo ring. There couldn't be more of a poetic ending.

[zinc flax]

I mean the reveal of presumably Requiem seems it was more of a cliffhanger

At least the context showed

[thorny zenith]

Yeah but thats my point

the legendary ending seems too forced, I don't think bungie wanted to leave a somewhat of a cliffhanger for the series to continue

My guess is they were forced by microsoft to leave a door open for the next studio

[rugged quartz]

No they weren't.

They thought about making halo 4

[thorny zenith]

There is no other explanation. No, they didn't think about making Halo 4. After making the trilogy of CE, 2 and 3, they were bound by a contract to offer 2 more games and if they thought about making halo 4, they would've delivered but no, instead they made Reach and ODST because they didn't wanna follow Chief's story anymore.

[rugged quartz]

That is factually untrue that they didn't think about halo 4

[thorny zenith]

If they would've thought about making Halo 4, what would've been the point to the "Finish The Fight" slogan and posters? the whole game was bound to this slogan, finish the fight, what is Halo 4 then? Re-start the fight? XD I dont know, I think this is all so stupid

[rugged quartz]

Because the second world war was the end of all wars right? No more wars ever happened? No cold war?

Marketing doesn't always align with the game itself either

[zinc flax]

In the end, Publisher meddling ruined Halo

[rugged quartz]

As seen in halo 2, 3, 5 and more

No. Bungie put that ending there themselves

If anything the lack of strong themes was due to the development

[thorny zenith]

How though????? They literally have a whole documentary on Youtube about the making of Halo 3 and they specify directly to the audience that Halo 3 would be their last project in relation to Chief's story

[rugged quartz]

And probably certain people overstepping their roles and killing characters for shock factor.

[swift jetty]

What is this squad battle network mode they have out?

[rugged quartz]

They've talked about thinking about making halo 4 and all of that, in the end they decided not to because they didn't want to start a story when they were going to leave soon after

[thorny zenith]

The story executives and narrative compelling writers stated that they have reached each factor in trying to definitively end Chief's story for good

[coarse dagger]

https://www.vg247.com/bungie-considered-making-halo-4-instead-of-reach

[thorny zenith]

Ok, maybe they thought about it, but they didn't make it did they? They made Reach instead, they reached the conclusion that there is nothing else to add to Master Chief's narrative.

In the documentary, someone states that it's sad for them to leave microsoft but they say, and I qoute: "But its the right thing to do."

They imply the fact that As much as they would want to work on the series, they can't. They Concluded their part

[rugged quartz]

They didn't want to work on the series anymore.

[coarse dagger]

The reason they didn't do Halo 4, was because they were leaving the franchise. If they had stayed with Halo they may have done 4 themselves

[smoky forge]

At the end of Halo 3, or more appropriately while they were working on writing and developing Halo 3, the future of the Halo franchise was still kinda up in the air.

Maybe they did want to do another sequel? Maybe there was disagreement in the studio?
The decision to do a prequel rather than starting up a new Sequel trilogy made more sense.
Maybe doing a single sequel game with MC and trying to start and end another narrative didn't make sense

[thorny zenith]

Yes, because they had nothing else to add

[crystal iron]

We need a bandana skull start for firefight

[rugged quartz]

They didn't for the reasons I stated. Also they proceeded to try and ignore the lore with reach. Sort of have their cake and eat it too.

[rugged quartz]

You don't seem to understand bungie much. They wanted to do something else, destiny, not be tied to halo

Those who wanted to keep working on halo jumped to 343, like Frankie, VicDeleon, Shiska, and others

[thorny zenith]

After all these ideologies It literally is concluded That they finished Halo, and where Im getting is the fact that they made that legendary ending, it makes absolutely no sense, but then again, the legendary ending for ce wasn't canon so maybe Bungie doesn't consider the one from halo 3 canon

[smoky forge]

Or consider that games aren't always made with a strict plan for how every narrative will play out in the future, and they just kinda made something and released it

[thorny zenith]

conclusion is that microsoft are greedy and milked the game too much

[rugged quartz]

You seem to think bungie can do no wrong and any wrong is outside interference and cannot accept otherwise

And you try to warp the facts to fit your thinking

[thorny zenith]

No, because in my head I have already accepted the fact that the legendary ending is not canon but I rather think its illogical of Bungie to do that legendary ending

[coarse dagger]

You are free to think what you like, but the ending is canon

[signal ivy]

lol

[thorny zenith]

I dont get their reasoning, other than "we have to leave a door open for microsoft" and they were forced, there literally is no other explanation

[magic night]

It's a simple cliffhanger. They happen all the time.

[smoky forge]

You can enjoy whatever head canon you want. I've found that is a better way to interface with fiction than trying to subscribe to a discreet set of fictional events

[magic night]

They ending for CE was a cliffhanger they made when they had no idea that they would be making a sequel,

[thorny zenith]

they did

[rugged quartz]

You can think the moon is made out of cheese and there's a secret society of mice living on the moon. You're free to do that. But reality and what you think aren't the same

[smoky forge]

They had no idea Halo CE would be successful lol

[thorny zenith]

they had a contract with microsoft.

[thorny zenith]

true.

anyways, I just wanted to get your opinions, the fact that bungie concluded their games makes it hard for me to understand why they would've implemented the legendary ending. like I said, 100% its because they were forced so the game would continue for the future studio which we all know as 343. but in their hearts they deeply know halo 3 is the end

[coarse dagger]

Cool, we'll you're wrong

[crystal iron]

Ooooh I noticed the challenges are not PVP specific this is awesome. Honestly they could possibly up the amount of challenges back to the day 1 number at this point

[thorny zenith]

I don't know, I guess it hurts. This game was so cool but I find it a very big shame that it continued

I played just a few of Halo 4 and oh my goodness. It was horrid.

[magic night]

One that came about after they released CE

[smoky forge]

to reiterate, there was still consideration for bungie to make Halo 4 as one of the final games under their contract. You are free to pretend that everything post 2007 is a fever dream in MC's head in the cryotube if you'd like

[thorny zenith]

I dont even wanna know about 5 and infinite

[thorny zenith]

prove me wrong =)

[coarse dagger]

I wouldn't have a career if it didn't (well, I wouldn't be where I am), so I am very grateful for it continuing

[thorny zenith]

I want yall to prove me wrong

[coarse dagger]

You're making the claim, so the burden lies with you

[thorny zenith]

I want to see your reasoning, after all thats why I came here, to get opinions

[smoky forge]

No thanks, I am going to enjoy my head canon for the games and allow you to enjoy yours

[signal ivy]

wasn't H3's legendary ending a marathon reference?

[celest heron]

I'd love to see that timeline if they did and how similar or different it would've been.

[smoky forge]

H4 was made by an almost entirely new team, right? Almost no one went to 343 and worked on the game long enough to get in the credits AFAIK.
Pretty safe to say the games would have been enormously different.
H4 wasn't my cup of tea but I am glad it didn't end the franchise. Having fun with Infinite in 2023

[rugged quartz]

I've never heard of such a thing

[crystal iron]

So anyone think we will get the Silver team helmets in this game

[smoky forge]

What do you mean? That 343 was an almost entirely new studio?

[celest heron]

they still had some bungie people

[rugged quartz]

You're saying that the people who joined 343 at the begining didn't stay long enough to get their names on the credits by the time halo 4 released?

[crystal iron]

Yeah for the most part, that or they didn't want to be credited for a variety of reasons which isn't uncommon. 343 was horribly managed until the very recent restructuring.

[rugged quartz]

I've never heard of such a thing

I'm sure it's a possibility someone might have left at some point and so on with that but not as a scale problem

[crystal iron]

It's extremely common within the industry to leave for a new position externally every few years, especially if you're not in a senior position. Leaving after an acquisition is extremely understandable, especially if you want to work with staff you're familiar with and find an opening.

A lot of networking for jobs was happening all the way through the early acquisition, it happens every time.

[rugged quartz]

? Acquisition?

Microsoft Acquired halo years before

[crystal iron]

When 343 took over and started on Halo 4 staff that would have been moving over to halo 4 as a project would have been in the process of moving themselves to new work. It was a major project change.

[rugged quartz]

343 was founded in 2007

Halo 4 had a roughly 2 year development cycle where they started around reach time

[crystal iron]

Yes I'm aware, you don't seem to really understand the work cycle and how employment within that part of the industry works very well.

[rugged quartz]

I am confused at what you've been getting at.

Most of the people at 343 at the early time weren't working directly in making halo 4 per say. A lot of the work and things that were done had been novels, literature, animations, anime. halo waypoint. A lot of interesting projects which 343 should do more of now

I haven't heard of specific cases where a bunch of 343 people left when halo 4 was in development and not included in credits.

[crystal iron]

People that were moved onto the project when it properly started likely were in the process of moving elsewhere externally already, and almost certainly would have left the project, and by extension 343, for a better working environment. It's completely normal to lose staff during a relatively unstable period like that.

People may quietly leave a position and request non-credit if they disagree with ongoing work policy, they may leave because it's convenient timing, and they may leave for a variety of other reasons.

343 historically is very notorious within the industry for having unpleasant and mismanaged work environments, and the abuse of contractual temporary staff is well documented. Infinite was really the final push and shove for a lot of people and was when it became more well known publicly.

[rugged quartz]

Oh you're not the same person who wrote this earlier

[crystal iron]

Oh no I'm not lol I understand why you were confused, sorry I should have clarified.

[crystal iron]

Well now that 343 is making the events really themed around that current months holiday or stuff I wonder if they will. Ring back mini PVP for St Patrick's day lol

[crystal iron]

Lol we killed Asthma Brute so quickly... Lured him to the edge of the map and used the Repulsor to send him off the map lol

[misty vale]

this new netcode is really good but they need to turn off the aim not for kbm zoomed sniping. Just let us donk people 343

[smoky forge]

Almost no devs went from Bungie to 343 to work on Halo 4, according to the credits of Halo 4.
The three earlier examples of employees that left Bungie for 343 were Shishka, Frankie, and Vic Deleon.
The disclaimer was in case there were more people who actually did leave and join 343 that we don't know about for some reason.
It doesn't really matter, just that there's a belief 343 was started by Bungie devs, when it was assembled almost entirely from scratch

[smoky forge]

Repulsor cheese is too good. I made a script that bounces any AI that fall off the map, back onto the map lol.

[coarse dagger]

Around 10 people moved over, could have been less, could have been a few more. Most of them have since left, but in that time others have come from Bungie and folk have moved from 343 to Bungie

[ruby knoll]

what was the point of the "earth will never be the same" marketing for halo 2 if there were only like 2 earth missions

[smoky forge]

Disconnects between marketing and the actual game are unfortunately common

[rugged quartz]

Sometime later the number did increase over ten and lifetime it has been over ten but yes initially not a lot

But indeed not a lof of bungie devs went to 343.

[ruby knoll]

343 historically is very notorious within the industry for having unpleasant and mismanaged work environments and the abuse of contractual temporary staff

wut

the contractor thing is Microsoft wide lol

[smoky forge]

There were a lot of Disappointed Gamers in 2004 when Halo 2 released and by the fourth mission we were playing as an Elite.
The Arbiter side is pretty highly praised these days for how much it fleshed out the world and story, but at the time there was serious salt

The 2003 E3 demo content getting chopped down heavily contributed to that

[ruby knoll]

as for unpleasant and mismanaged work environment i've heard both good and bad. I think 343 probably has it's issues like any other studio but nothing stands out as uniquely bad per se

[rotund zenith]

Also that halo 2 was a cliffhanger

[ruby knoll]

if you want uniquely bad, actiblizz is right there

[ruby knoll]

100%, and it can be for any number of reasons

[smoky forge]

For sure. Managing huge projects is not easy. Coordinating between different departments is not trivial.
Ideally they'd wait til the game was 100% done to start advertising, but that's not how things usually shake down

[ruby knoll]

once a marketing campaign gets rolling it's hard to say "hey, we know x is being advertised, but x got changed to y so can you change the ad campaign"

[crystal iron]

Yes the contractor issue is Microsoft wide but internal policies at 343 were also exceptionally unpleasant and absolutely contributed to a bad environment. Tons of reporting covered the internal issues throughout the Infinite release window.

[smoky forge]

Just look at how many Infinite toys /marketing stuff came out in 2020 that ended up never making it into the real game, like the Banished Skiffs

[rugged quartz]

BAnished skiffs did make it into the lore however and we did see a destroyed skiff

[crystal iron]

A lot of the original stuff was really Halo Wars inspired, it's a shame they didn't get into the final game because of the constant rebuilds.

[smoky forge]

we did? I missed that in the campaign. Now I wanna go check it out

[rugged quartz]

There's at leaest one destroyed skiff on zeta halo in campaign

[ruby knoll]

do you have an example of "exceptionally unpleasant" policies? the main article i know is the business insider one, which mainly covered the contractor thing and some issues with the engine. I'll note that the article failed to bring up any of 343i's partner studios

[rugged quartz]

Didn't a 343 or ex 343 employee come out decrying Jason as sensationalist or something similar for that piece he did? Counter arguing him I think?

I think this was a bit more recent

[ruby knoll]

when i hear "exceptionally unpleasant" i think of ActiBlizz

[crystal iron]

Sure one of the wider known ones at the time was constant removal of people feeding negative feedback relating to the microtransaction system. Another example would be the complete lack of core staff retainment meaning the internal core build was largely unknown and had to be untangled later on.

[ruby knoll]

i think stuff in that article isn't too out there, but also not the complete picture

[rotund zenith]

When in terms of being in a game the wombat is doing somersaults around something that couldve been drivable i cri

[ruby knoll]

literally never heard about the first item, the second one is false considering 343i and its partner studios had plenty of FTEs alongside 343i's contractors, in addition to the fact that documentation is a thing.

[smoky forge]

It was sad that we didn't see more of the Banished sandbox from HW2 taking advantage of the larger map size

[rugged quartz]

i would have REALLY liked seeing halo wars banished buildings in infinite

A sort of 1:1 with the adjustements needed

[crystal iron]

Definitely not given the major recorded issues that happened throughout release and the following year. There's also a ton of widely known information internally throughout the workforce that isn't necessarily public right now so it's not wise to share.

[ruby knoll]

343i had during development, had post development, currently has, and will continue to have a decent number of FTEs. And again, that doesn't touch on 343i's partner studios, who also have FTEs. And if these vague issues are so widespread why haven't I, who's kept up with infinite/343i, heard of any that would be exceptionally bad and not just in the realm of "average studio issues"

[crystal iron]

None of what you've said really changes any of what I discussed previously and it's not related to the topic of historical internal environmental pressures. There's a lot random people on the internet don't know, it's a good idea to never assume we have all the answers to something just because we try to stay updated.

[ruby knoll]

so random people don't know but you apparently have access to privileged information that nobody else does

very believeable!

[crystal iron]

Hardly privileged it's just not always a good idea to disclose tons of information online to win an online sparring match, especially if it means potentially causing unwarranted upset or drama. It's largely in the past now anyways thankfully. 343 seems to have reformed dramatically.

Well that's enough firefight for today,... And now tie to play some Starfeild and hope I get a Superior armor drop

[sharp summit]

Just had a game where EVERY fight, I got there shield down but could not get the last hit in

So annoying, I don't even know how that's possible because my reticle it on their face

And even with the shield down it takes another 5 body shots and they still don't die

[coarse dagger]

Don't make claims if you can't back them up, especially not with NDA'd material you can't publicly discuss.

"Trust me bro" isn't a way to get your points across

[sharp summit]

I run out of ammo every time I use the pistol and I doubt know how

[crystal iron]

No offense but disclosing information relating to exact employee treatment based on position isn't exactly a good idea. There's no reason to create targeted harassment of prior staff etc online especially in a place so informal and unimportant.

[coarse dagger]

Then don't bring it up

[ruby knoll]

you're alleging that 343's work environment is exceptionally bad but refuse to back it up

if 343 has an abusive work environment should the public not know?

[crystal iron]

When it's relevant to a conversation and can be discussed in an abstract and non-intrusive way it's completely fine to discuss. Demanding exact sourcing constantly isn't productive to a conversation focusing on loose historical events.

[ruby knoll]

at this point i'm assuming you just saw something about some negative glassdoor reviews for 343 and suddenly they're as bad as actiblizz

as a side, glassdoor, what a horrible website

why do i need an account to view anything

[coarse dagger]

Discussion is fine, you are making claims that you cannot back up which is tantamount to spreading false/misinformation. In future, don't. We're moving on from this now

[crystal iron]

This is incredibly reductive and quite annoying, you'd do better to not constantly interject requesting exact documentation everytime someone discussed something they've experienced or have otherwise been through indirectly.

[coarse dagger]

Please don't ping on replies, thanks

As I said, we're moving on

[crystal iron]

Sure thing 💙

[full warren]

bit confused on how you earn the bous armor coating?

[coarse dagger]

Buy the event pass - either the 500 credit version, or the 2000 credit version

[latent echo]

So does firefight count towards the challanges or does it have to be PvP?

Discord.. I DIDN'T @ anyone -.-

[grave ether]

Should unless a challenge specifically mentions PVP but I didn't notice any last time I had looked at them

?

[latent echo]

it showing yellow as if I pinged Stckr when I didn't

[grave ether]

Weird! I don't see that on my end

[latent echo]

Same issue i've been having on mobile. Good to know Skyfi. I can go grind out firefight for a hour before I jump on Destiny 2 for story and extoic quest mission

[agile cobalt]

does heroic firefight give u moar xp

[grave ether]

That's what halo support tweeted earlier! Not sure how much more yet though https://twitter.com/HaloSupport/status/1737179898580775166?t=JgRjGnEd-JSna0wLh0p8Pw&s=19

[agile cobalt]

hmm

every kill is still the same tho, is it at the end

[grave ether]

Might be for completing/winning it maybe?

[latent echo]

holy. People are so bad at firefight...

can't even make it past the second wave

on heroic..

[ashen atlas]

Heroic ff is kind of tough

Noticeably more than the regular

[dark saffron]

just found out that in Halo Reach, the covenant AA Cannon projectile uses the same sound as the wraith and revenant projectile

[dusk umbra]

my reach achievements on mcc steam are not unlocking

[valid crown]

I'm a touch surprised they haven't reduced the fire rate of the sidekick at this point.

[misty vale]

There are several fixes for the pistol. Eliminate the aim bot. Add falloff damage at like 20y. There's a big discussion in the threads.

[sharp summit]

Damn I was wondering why I couldn't perform as well as before with that gun

I used to absolutely beam people with it I thought I was just slow

[latent echo]

So you can't look at your challanges anymore in the multiplayer select screen

Which is weird cause before this update you could only can look at the BP.

[misty vale]

The menu is all weird now. When your bp pops up, up at the top hit the "challenges" rectangle

[grave ether]

Ouch! And I thought I was a problem whenever I'd accidentally die to a suicide grenade grunt, but it seems I'm doing alright

Yeah, they moved where the challenges were for viewing. Don't like the new spot since I have to remember to tab over every single time

[lost fulcrum]

are halo servers lagging rn

they feel like trash

[sharp summit]

I don't think heroic is too hard

Stay alive at all costs

Getting a grapple and getting good use out of it is very beneficial

[misty vale]

Person on point lobbing nades, hog driver that knows how to get the repair field and gunner, person off to the side angle picking further off targets the hog misses. It ain't that hard

[tulip tusk]

are servers ok

[open umbra]

I got 279 driver assists and perfection in Valhalla last night.
(Gunner is my older brother)

The spawn points are predictable.

[misty vale]

Yeah a high duo can prob carry

[open umbra]

There're some hills I personally think that are hard to deal with:
Exiled: the rubble hill (the one have camo spawn), since it's often being the last hill that the chopper isn't likely to last that long, and it has three floors which makes the enemy easy to get in the hill.

Zanzibar: the indoor hill, the spawn makes them able to drop right on to the hill, and the constant parking lot spawn will have the ai flood into the main gate and the tunnel if the team is unaware.(there should be at least one teammate on the 2nd floor to pick off enemies either in the hill or the parking lot spawn, also utilize the warthog to deal with constant outdoor spawns)

If the team can keep the hog/gungoose till the end, I think that Deadlock(still not able to find any regen fields, it has a hog and a banshee), Launch Site(2 regen fields, 1 gungoose), Valhalla and Oasis wouldn't be a problem.

Live Fire is not hard except for the middle hill if someone in the team is good at using repulsors.

[ashen atlas]

Repulsors are the best equipment in ff imo. Especially for the end bosses

[open umbra]

Pancakes

[ashen atlas]

If you can keep the bosses out of the hill long enough to cap. The team won’t be stuck in a small area with someone like escharum

[ashen atlas]

That too

[grave ether]

Is there no backfill in firefight?

[magic night]

There is

[open umbra]

They just casually pull out their two grenades when you're near them.

[rugged quartz]

I've never experienced JIP in firefight

[grave ether]

Me neither. But I DO keep starting a game with only 3 people and a worthless bot

[rugged quartz]

the bot is a nuisence

[open umbra]

Almost guarantee no more skulls for the match

[quick crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/when-server-down-iceeramen-monkey-gif-23229726

[rugged quartz]

One bot once killed me as well

[wise flower]

i’m watching rocket slosh’s recap on moistcritikals halo challenge to beat halo laso without dying and it has me thinking. What about All bungie main line games
1-4, LASO in one run

[twin crag]

[karmic delta]

bruh I hate how on infinite I'll go 1 and 11, and continue doing terribly for 9 matches in a row (swat), then as soon as i hit up MCC reach swat, i go 35 and 4...... Something it definitely extra wrong with the infinite servers today...

[zealous panther]

legendary firefight is amazing

[scarlet shuttle]

i saved a map from custom browser but when I try to play my own mode editor, it doesn’t work as intended 🤔

It mixes 2 game mode together

Everything chose from my Sandbox is working fine, but the game rules aren’t working, like I put Slayer 50 kills, and at the moment someone dies, the game end.

[open umbra]

Maybe it's the scripting from the map itself?
Like Hydro Station (Firefight), you will change the scoring with your own mode, yet your remaining lives still tie to map scripting itself.

[scarlet shuttle]

That must be it, but something is clearly bugged. The game would randomly put me and my friend on the same Team resulting in the match finishing at the begining, and at some point it just put us both on same team and the match didn’t end x)

[open umbra]

My 1st match on legendary firefight:3-2 on behemoth

[full warren]

playing during the day on eu server is so bad lol we had 2 high Diamond players and then 2 average players and 4 noobs who were negative 8KDA who just rotating quit the game so it became a 2v2 with occasional bots roaming around

Thought the population was bigger but aparently its only in america lol

[analog salmon]

i dont find the SBMM changes dynamically anyway

it might do but i find even if you play peak time its pretty non-existant in social

[lime robin]

4 is a 343 game.

[serene furnace]

Ehhh

You could say Halo 4 was made by Bungie and you wouldn't be entirely wrong

[serene furnace]

Basically yeah

Halo 4 is a better Reach

[olive brook]

nuh uh

[serene furnace]

Yuh uh

[olive brook]

nuhuh

[serene furnace]

Not gonna say it twice

[civic sundial]

343i made Halo 4 is the objective truth. It is also better than Reach because it took what Reach did and did it better and gave us new Forerunner stuff

[signal ivy]

343 turned one of the worst Halo games into the best game in the franchise

[serene furnace]

Supposedly when 343 was first created a good part of the team came from Bungie, or at least devs familiar with Halo

[magic night]

Those suppositions are wrong

[serene furnace]

Probably

But one thing is certain
Bedrock is good, Java is overrated

[olive brook]

NUH UH

Halo 4 is a game

[serene furnace]

Every game is a game

[olive brook]

Well

theres Halo 5 which is barely a game

🧌

[serene furnace]

I'm not gonna pretend like you decide that because you don't, so I'll just continue eating my popcorn

[onyx latch]

I'm going to acknowledge that's a really dumb joke.

[analog salmon]

i feel like there's some core differences that make reach a hell of a lot more casual then 4. like its literally the most casual halo game there is

[serene furnace]

Bro has seen The Day Before and claims Halo 5 is barely a game
The more bad games come out the less sense it makes to call 343's job bad

[onyx latch]

They used a troll emoji right after. I doubt they're serious.

[analog salmon]

i see reach, 4 and 2AMP as having close DNA but playing insanely different

[onyx latch]

If 5's 'barely' a game, that doesn't exactly speak well of the rest of the franchise before it, lmao

[serene furnace]

Probably because all those 3 use the same engine

[analog salmon]

4 actually feels closest gameplay wise to Infinite I find. When I go back to MCC, 4 doesn't really feel like a big jump, while the other titles do

[serene furnace]

Yeah

I'm content that the gameplay hasn't drastically changed much since Halo 2, and that is a step up because oh boy CE doesn't feel good today

[onyx latch]

You're not allowed to say that.

[analog salmon]

tbh i get what you mean, the gap from CE to 2 is arguably bigger then any other halo game is from another halo game. that said I like CE MP

[serene furnace]

Ah yeah I forgot for a second that the Halo community is extremely nostalgia-driven

[olive brook]

I take it back, Halo 5 is definitely a game

[analog salmon]

i played CE very little as a child but I still find it really fun, it's not just nostalgia

[serene furnace]

Not anymore Woel, it's not fun anymore when I already know you're a troll

[olive brook]

A little bit of tomfoolery

[onyx latch]

CE has a sort of archaic charm to it that I find hard to knock.

[serene furnace]

It definitely has the appeal of the classic 90s arena shooters

[onyx latch]

I don't figure that, but it has the appeal of a general purpose shooter of that era.

Halo's about when shooters stopped being fast affairs.

[serene furnace]

But personally if I was offered to choose between classic Doom and Doom 2016, I'll go for 2016 any day
Same goes for Halo

[analog salmon]

i think even the MP is a masterpeice for that era. it's maybe not the best, but it's actually fun for me to play today which is more then can be said for the vast majority of MP first person shooters of that time

sure i played it as a kid a few times but i didnt grow up playing it

[serene furnace]

I don't argue that, Halo CE was a revolution for its time, it's no wonder it won the GOTY in 2001 even if people don't like to count the GOTY prior to the existence of the game awards

I'm talking about how much Halo CE has aged in comparison to how the sequels have aged

[analog salmon]

true but that's partly because the sequels have aged insanely well also

[serene furnace]

It must be because Halo CE used its own engine while all the other games from Halo 2 onwards used a modified version of the same engine

[analog salmon]

it's the havok physics engine that makes 2 onwards feel far more modern i think

[serene furnace]

Thank god

[coarse dagger]

Only about 10 people from Bungie moved over, the rest stayed to work on Destiny

[analog salmon]

but then i still think if you can get past the jank feeling physics, CE is not a badly designed MP. there's something about how simple it is and also the faster ttk.

[serene furnace]

It is pretty fun

Up until everyone starts sniping with the pistol

I love CE BTB, but the lack of hijacking, lack of EMP and the fact that the slightest and slowest movement of a vehicle kills players are huge disadvantages for land players

[coarse dagger]

Blam started out from Myth 😛

[analog salmon]

the thing about halo is at some level everyone is going to know where you are and be on you as soon as you spawn. CE just lacks the fluff, everyone has to be at that level. it isn't designed to cater for a more casual sandbox style shooter. rocks aren't gonna win you a kill if you dont know where the guy you killed is spawning

[serene furnace]

Yeah

Experienced CE players will totally dominate the match
But it is casual fun

Oh vehicles on CE multiplayer are indestructible too, oof

[analog salmon]

it's got a low skil ceiling though. unless they control your spawns, you pretty much always have a chance of winning a gun fight off your spawn in CE

and not only that you can actually win two gun fights

you're not dependent on team mates as much because of the low ttk

[serene furnace]

When I get to matchmaking and the match is on Hang 'Em High I already consider it lost

[analog salmon]

control the spread on the pistol and hold back on your stick / S key when you spawn lol

[serene furnace]

lol

On Infinite on the other hand, when I play Lone Wolves (FFA) I usually always end in the top 3, sometimes even winning

So I don't know if I'm actually good or if Lone Wolves players are just bad

[analog salmon]

this is gonna sound weird but practice with the CE pistol against a wall, it's got really weird spread behaviour. like you have to time shots a very tiny amount just to prevent spread

[serene furnace]

I've seen it, there's so much bloom I might as well have a flower instead of a gun

[analog salmon]

it has zero bloom if you time the shots right, thats why some players will just melt you in 3 shots easy and yet you feel like it's impossible to do the same

[serene furnace]

Yeah I better learn the timing

[analog salmon]

its so unintuitive but once you get it your like OHHH now i can 3 shot lol

im ngl i still get ratio'd from time to time but overall i think it's actually easy to hold your own as a solo then in 3 or 4

and obviously 2 but 2's just brutal in mcc matchmaking these days

[serene furnace]

I can imagine

Accidentally went on a 1v1 once on MCC, it was Halo 2 classic, I got absolutely destroyed

[analog salmon]

🤣 I imagine pretty much everyone queuing 1v1 halo 2C are combo double shooting gods

[serene furnace]

Pretty much lol

[crystal iron]

Anyone else ha ing bad frame rate drop in firefight

[tulip tusk]

ive been having connection and general issues ingame so going to try later, weird stuff, as if my laptop is gearing to explode or servers are wacky rn

[sullen owl]

I would definitely add playing on a laptop to the general issues pile.

[serene furnace]

I'm sorry but they're right

In the 2 years and 1 month that the game has been out I have literally never heard someone saying the PC version is better, in any way

[crystal iron]

I'm on Xbox and my frame rate was dropping all the way down to 8

Still managed a perfection though

[serene furnace]

Better accuracy is actually easier with a slower framerate

[full warren]

lol so many hackers in team snipe

[serene furnace]

Some speedrunners mod racing games on PC to take the framerate down and make more precise turns
It's cheating, but they do it

[full warren]

dude got a 18KDA across 3000 games ... yeah no thats not real

[sullen owl]

Record the theater replays and report.

[serene furnace]

I'll tell you your mistake, you're playing Team Snipers

[crystal iron]

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/vF3YZY2gbP

Behold my frame rate at the moment on xbox

[full warren]

gonna watch it now

but I dont have a thing to record it and if his not banned in 3000 games no chance

[sullen owl]

Gross. Playing on xbox 360?

[crystal iron]

Series X

[serene furnace]

Pressing the Windows key and G lets you record clips

[sullen owl]

Might be worth a console reboot.

[serene furnace]

No, that ain't worth a console reboot

[sullen owl]

Either the built in gamebar, or nvidia replay work great.

[serene furnace]

That kind of frame dropping has happened to me too on both Series X and the cloud

[crystal iron]

I'm going to play one more round and see if It runs better than reboot if that doesn't fix it I'll probably just go play starfeild for a bit. I'll have ten days of vacation here soon so I have plenty of time for some halo

[serene furnace]

It ain't the platform, it's the game

[crystal iron]

Could be a server side issue

[sharp summit]

What quality settings are you running

Also tweak the settings that directly affect fps

[serene furnace]

We often forget that there's multiple factors happening all at the same time, like the game, our platform, the servers and our internet

[full warren]

LOL OMG his good at the game but his wall hacking at the same time

I give to him his got mnk skill on snipe but he literall stares at me across the wall, run across the window pre aim down the window and shoots

Like I am behind 3 walls, looks in my direction, run and looks no where and turns as he run across my sight like and shoots lol

[serene furnace]

You have encountered hackers so many times judging by how often you come here to complain about them to the point I'm starting to believe you aren't seeing hackers and just making up excuses as to why you lost

[full warren]

Wait... I complained like 3 times in 2 years....

you are mistaking me complaing about bad sbmm not hackers

[serene furnace]

You are always constantly complaining about something

[full warren]

so?

[sullen owl]

As is their right as a human.

[serene furnace]

This is not a costumer support channel

[sullen owl]

It's here or a diary, this gets more feedback from others with grievances.

[serene furnace]

Others with grievances are not gonna help you solve the problem tho

[full warren]

I didn't come here for customer support lol

[sullen owl]

Airing the laundry is fun.

[serene furnace]

So you came here to complain and that's it?

[full warren]

I just don't believe his not hacking with one of the best KDA in the whole game and never played "ranked"?

[serene furnace]

You already know support tickets are a thing, mods have told you about them multiple times

If you came to report the hacker guess what, this is not the place either

[young glen]

If we're looking at the same guy then they have played ranked, they are onyx and have a 1.3 K/D

[serene furnace]

Gamertags guys, start from there

[young glen]

Yeah we can't throw them in the public channels.

[serene furnace]

Exactly my point as to why this is not a channel to report hackers

[full warren]

well it was my lastest game

[young glen]

Yeah.

[full warren]

His good liek really good but crazy to the point he pre-aims behind a wall then shoot? and his movement looks like he can see whos behind the wall, that is my issue

[serene furnace]

I was called a hacker in Halo 5 three times

You see the problem with that right?
Halo 5 is an Xbox One exclusive
You can't even hack an Xbox One

[frosty condor]

only 3 times?

https://tenor.com/view/giggle-laughing-gif-20076831

[young glen]

I don't know man. Team Snipers and Tac are more sensitive to mechanical skill and spawn knowledge. He has played a lot of Halo, he might just be more aware of where people spawn and pop up.

I'm not saying you're wrong, as a smart cheater would just use walls rather than aim bot, but y'know, he might just be really good.

[serene furnace]

Doesn't desync makes it look like you are behind a wall when you're not and that's why so many players report dying after taking cover?

[full warren]

nah I mean i was like across the map, he looks at me

[serene furnace]

Yeah that's what snipers do, they offer 10x scope

[full warren]

no oyu dont under stand lol, we are streets, he was looking at me through the wall across the map, then runs halfway down the map and pre aim at where I was standing

[young glen]

Unfortunately to really continue this debate we'd need to see the same clip as you

[serene furnace]

Couldn't it be that he didn't look at you until you were on clear sight and just reacted very fast?

[full warren]

Let me see how to open nvidia shield

[serene furnace]

I already told you Windows key + G lets you record the screen

[full warren]

https://imgur.com/a/8iuRse8

these two clips are sus to me

wow the quality is so bad on imgur lol

You know maybe his headphone are just better than mine and can hear people across the map

[young glen]

Well the first clip can be explained via audio positioning.

The second one I'd wager is just knowing the spawns.

The guy in the first clip is shooting.

The second one is a little more sus, but again, it isn't crazy to think folk that put hundreds of hours into a single mode might preaim at potential spawns.

[full warren]

The thing is there guy didn't spawn there he walked from red room to there but then he just know to aim and wait for him

[young glen]

I don't know man, I don't think he's cheating, I just think he inhales Halo Infinite

[full warren]

another one I didn't record was we were both dancing around a room and we spent liek 20s rounding aorund lol

[young glen]

But it doesn't hurt to make a report if you genuinely think he is

[crystal iron]

The grass he no touch

[full warren]

I don't know why it is so hard to make a report for a hacker it should be like clip in game and press send lol, not fill in a long forum online. I am not going to bother since his got 3500 games even if he was hacking I doubt his going to be banned, I meet him once a week tho since we are both eu, and he is definitely not this good in team slayers or quick play but apparently his god at snipes

[coarse dagger]

You can report players in game
https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403866308884-How-to-report-a-player

[full warren]

Yeah I mean we all know this but it doesn't attach anything to the reports so how would 343 even know lol

nvm Im over it

[tulip tusk]

u should report people, u comment a lot on players and cheating

[full warren]

ok I do not claim people are cheating that much lol

I literally only said someone is cheating probably like 3 times since season 1

[young glen]

Pfft, I thought you were a principled person...

[grave ether]

You can also send in a report that allows you to attach files, if you check out the link you'd see exactly what to do.

[misty vale]

desync is this community's word for "lag" a la CS 1.3 2005.

Dying behind corners argh! can entirely be summed up by H:I being a shooter preference netcode vs. a server preference netcode and how abysmal pings are over wifi / on an xb.

[smoky forge]

Lag vs desync isn't always obvious, there's no doubt been a lot of confusion on that.
There have been pretty egregious desyncs where vehicles are in completely different places according to the server though.
It is a real enough problem that they're flighting an improved network model.

I get that people frequently complaining about stuff is annoying, but that also doesn't mean every complaint is invalid

[sullen owl]

Desync is very much a real issue in Infinite though. Just two or three nights ago I was in 12 vs 12 CTF with a warthog, drove into the enemy's base, honked for the gunner to hop out to grab flag, they hopped out and disappeared. I hopped out and found my hog was in the middle building on the map, not the base half way across the map I thought I was at. lmao

That's my worst experience with desync so far. Total loss of sync.

[misty vale]

that's actual desync

however that happens to me like once every six months

99% of the time it's just people on slow internet lagging.

[full warren]

12 games 1 win 😄

going to hit statistic impossibility soon

[left snow]

When you've gone 1 from 26 get back to me.

🙂

[full warren]

2/14 I guess I am just bad at the game

[left snow]

You can get little runs with bad form (your output can drop by 150 MMR points or more) and bad luck (modes, team-mates, etc).

And some days you extend those streaks by tilting a bit hard.

Anecdotally I get days / times where pings are "worse" than usual. You just end up losing all those close gun fights. You get shot around the corner more than usual. Melees just don't seem to register.

There are some days I just know that the losing streak will be hard to break. But that's life in the slow lane (pings often 200ms+).

[full warren]

had a look on halo waypoint, my kills and death pretty much followed the graph it gave me perfectly lol so I guess nothing I could done but terriable system lol

[left snow]

So you keep telling us.

Your game history looks pretty good before and after your session of team snipers. 4&4 for Team Slayer. And 6&3 the day before.

The alternative take is you just -yoink- at Snipers?

More seriously. I'd say the game has your MMR wrong in Snipers. Have you played a lot recently? You will probably need to give it a few more games to get it settled.

[full warren]

nah I will never play that mode again lol

[grave ether]

That's the spirit!

[left snow]

You need to give new playlists a bit of breathing room. It "assumes" a similar MMR from your history - but it may take a while to earn your real one.

And that's across the board. Even if the system is starting to get yours right - it may take a while to get other players under control as well.

It's not uncommon to have posters complain about their matching in a new playlist.

[grave ether]

Right now I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my network. I'm having lag and desync more often and also seeing the dreaded packet loss. But outside of halo my packets seem to be just fine.
Need to monitor the traffic logs better to see if there's a hang up anywhere on my end, if need to complain to my ISP for them to fix their end, or if it's hopeless and I'll continue to appear under the map and rubber band to areas I wasn't at

Like, what is going on here? Happened on and off throughout the match

[hardy cave]

SBMM still is incredibly frenetic --- 8 games you're getting stomped, the next two you're stomping other players on their 8 games. I'd love updates or acknowledgement, it's been real sharp particularly since S5 launch.

[crystal iron]

I wish atriox was a playable character

guys why did they decide to make halo infinite multiplayer free? and will they also be making their future multiplayer games free to?

[sullen owl]

Free games have the largest player bases and microtransaction stores make more money than single purchase games. No idea on the second and nobody can tell you that answer with authority.

[left snow]

It's definitely about the wide skill gap in the teams (from the best to the worst). It seems to be a bit worse in S5 - probably because of Fire Fight dragging players away from the other play lists.

And it seems to affect some players worse than others. I suspect there are pockets of MMR that tend to be used to plug gaps in lobbies more often.

[celest heron]

Reckoning bp finally complete

[grand canopy]

Keep matching with players getting 0 kills lmao

0kills 17 deaths lmao

[misty vale]

I had a husky earlier where my whole team quit, didn't backfill, and they farmed me for 37 kills while i afked and answered work emails.

Fire the ssbm ai. Ban quitters.

[celest heron]

are there no ammo crates on live fire in ff?

[slow walrus]

did 343 ever add the macworld demo to MCC?

[signal ivy]

it's in the steam workshop

[crystal iron]

Man I haven't felt that pain ever since Firefight dropped, just ben chilli killing the banished. However I have found myself occasionally tossing a frag to the center on academy

[misty vale]

It wasn't painful, i instead did my job and losing doesn't matter.

But it's just is lazy game making

[crystal iron]

I wonder how the games would be if the removed SBMM from social... I'll probably never know as I really don't play that anymore. Iv reached the age where PVP is kinda not the thing for me .oh but that sweet PVE

[left snow]

Tweak the SBMM for sure. But mostly ban quitters...

[left snow]

It's pretty straightforward to predict what random MM would be like. It's just probability. And it's not pretty.

Those to the left of the skill curve will get hammered. Over and over.

It's probably not too bad for those in the middle.

And those to the right of the curve get to generate hours of streaming content.

[white birch]

Ban game streams instead, lol.
Or at least, them trying to do tryhard stuff live.
Playing the game normally, cool. Lets see em do their best and loose occasionally.

Watching a stomp gets boring after a while.

[analog salmon]

on one hand the social audience want 343 to focus on social, ignore the competitive crowd

on the other hand the social audiance dont want sweats in their lobbies

cant really have both. without new maps in ranked, even players who literally dont care to stomp at all are gonna end up in social playlists just for the variety

[left snow]

The problem is we have no consensus on what is social or sweaty. It's all so subjective and variable.

What can 343 do to fix a problem that no-one can actually define, let alone offer solutions.

[analog salmon]

i actually think their strategy at launch was right

focus on making good maps that work for both competitive and social

and use the sandbox to differentiate them

i dont really know why they started making maps knowing they didnt work in competitive

ranked gets stale, players move to social playlists to get content, and now you can barely matchmake in ranked outside of peak peak times

obviously there's other problems with ranked but it's all contributing

[left snow]

Personally I think they went a bit overboard. A lot of the maps were OK in Ranked. At least in the mid-ranks.

They could have continued to tweak them (in Forge if necessary) to get them to play right.

And just used the super competitive ones for really high ranks and/or competitions.

[analog salmon]

whats a map that's too competitive though?

like i dont really hate the maps we got but i dont really see why they werent designed to be more competitively viable because it's never seemed like an issue

like take streets, it's probably one of the most fun maps in the game

not knocking anyone for liking forest but it's hardly close

you just spend half your time walking across the map to the action

it almost feels made for infection not arena. but then streets literally has areas just for infection so why not do something clever like that

[left snow]

I'm honestly not a great judge.

I think we need all sorts of maps. Close quarters ones. Long range ones. Big ones. Small ones. Symmetrical. Asymmetrical etc.

Variety is the spice of life.

I'm not good enough to know when a map becomes "uncompetitive".

And in 20 years I could count on one hand the maps I didn't like.

[analog salmon]

im not really sure forest, prism, and cliffhanger are variety

just seems like find a long range weapon and beam people

variety is going from streets to recharge to live fire

for me at least

i think there's a fair argument that infinite's gameplay just works better when you are forced to close distance

and when you can do that off spawn in a very short amount of time

even if i never touched ranked i think my preference for maps would be the exact same honestly

i suppose competitive viability is really more about "is the game still enjoyable if you put full time halo players on it"

i dont actually think forest would not be a competitive map in the sense of the better team winning. it would just be really dull for both teams.

and players dont fall cleanly into "social players" and "sweats", its a scale and you want maps that are enjoyable for the most players possible

certain styles of maps just get less enjoyable the better the players are, regardless of what playlist you're in. And most good players are just casual gamers, not full time halo players

maybe lower skill players apprecaite the breathing room bigger maps give them, i dont know. i just dont see many people praising arena maps for being big

[sharp summit]

It’s not about big they are it’s about how open they are, my favourite maps include live fire and recharge type maps

Strongholds being my favourite mode

[analog salmon]

i feel like forbidden is the best big map

but it's designed in a way to funnel players towards choke points and avoid long range engagements

Catalyst is not bad either, definitely feel forced into long range fights

[short magnet]

Squad just sucks. I'm so done with it. The map pool. The team balancing. The game modes.

[analog salmon]

is it still side kick starts

[short magnet]

yes

thats not even remotely the problem

[analog salmon]

bruh

its the problem for me. those maps were designed for Halo 3's BR which is probably closest to the bandit

every time you spawn you just have to find a precision weapon or get melted by them

[short magnet]

Eh, yea, true. You're right. That is part of the problem

[analog salmon]

i couldnt get past that aspect to judge it otherwise

[short magnet]

I just wish I had teammates who wouldn't approach every game like it was slayer... Get that bleedin' flag already

I've done like 50 matches of it

And it's god awful garbage

[analog salmon]

to be honest MCC BTB is like that too lol

[ruby knoll]

squad games ‼️

[sudden spear]

Yo my fellow Spartans and ODST’s and honorary elites, have y’all been having issues buying credits? I’ve purchased 4 separate batches of 500 credits at different times to check, and it always says purchased failed, but still takes my money outta steam, and then doesn’t add them to my halo infinite account, anyone else encountering this? I’ve seen a few folks on Reddit awhile ago had it, and someone posted a discussion that has since been deleted in the halo infinite discussion channel.

[tulip tusk]

damn that is pretty bad

[onyx latch]

Xbox support.

Contact them.

[sudden spear]

I got 2 tickets with 343, but will do.

[tulip tusk]

it seems to me impact commando is worse than the normal commando, as if it blooms quicker or wider is it true?

[onyx latch]

Xbox support will be more capable of helping you, or Steam's.

[sullen owl]

That's the "my gun is pressed directly into you" commando.

[sudden spear]

Steam said the same thing y’all are, I just wanted to do one last Hail Mary before braving the horror that is Microsoft support. Thank you @onyx latch

My b, same thing You are, didn’t see it was 1 person

[next shard]

there are a large number of people playing legendary koth who shouldn't be playing legendary

[smoky forge]

You can avoid playing with annoying / unskilled randoms with one simple trick

[magic loom]

Flyin little guys with the Commando almost can insta kill you, must be hell on legendary

I dunno what moron thought giving enemies human weapons was a good idea, some even carry rocket launchers with legit homing. Try playing Reach with heretics its almost hell at that point.

[smoky forge]

Idk we've had enemies with human weapons in pretty much every Halo except for 4 and 5, yeah?

use a commando to headshot the skimmers first?

[magic loom]

Refresh my memory were their any enemies that had human weapons used against you in Halo 1,2 3. The flood is a given since they barely shot at you making them easy to move around

[signal ivy]

brutes using human shotguns

[smoky forge]

The flood used human weapons against you, yea. I'm pointing out there's precedence for "enemies with human weapons"

[magic loom]

Was that in Halo 2, 3 and reach?

[signal ivy]

Halo 2

[smoky forge]

lol ah right. Halo 2 "oh man we gotta ship this game" stuff

[magic loom]

I dont remember that at all, can you post footage and gameplay of that?

[signal ivy]

I don't feel like it right now

maybe later

[smoky forge]

nah, I'm sure you could watch some playthroughs of the latter H2 levels

[magic loom]

There were parts of Halo 2 where you did come across Brutes stealing weapons but you never see them using them, it was during arbiters missions. I dont think they ever used shotguns or any of human weapons

[signal ivy]

uprising was the level

[smoky forge]

at any rate, Banished use UNSC weapons in an attempt to streamline the weapon sandbox and avoid duplicate niches

I personally liked having the redundancy and expanded sandbox but acknowledge that it made some weapons less viable in MP

[magic loom]

I would have to play throught that part I dont remember fighting brutes or any covies with human weapons I kill brutes very fast in Halo 2 tons of fun

[signal ivy]

there you go

[magic loom]

That is bad image but I do see something that looks like the shotgun I will take your word for it

[signal ivy]

there

[smoky forge]

Here's words from a walkthrough - https://halo.bungie.org/gameplay/halo2_leg_walk/uprising.html

[magic loom]

I thought they used human weapons because they were to lazy to add actual weapons brutes were known to use and many others that were staples

I know Banished used all kinds of weapons since they steal from other factions thats fair but in the long run it left me questioning why thats barely any

[smoky forge]

Maybe laziness, maybe reducing sandbox intentionally, maybe some other reasons. I'd prefer if we had more brute stuff in the Banished, but it isn't like there's a shortage of UNSC gear on Zeta Halo

[magic loom]

I came across no real shotgun, magnum and no Spartan laser and SMG

Just the basic unsc staples

[smoky forge]

Spartan laser got replaced with Skewer, as less cheesy attempt at filling the same role.
SMG is missing but it is basically an assault rifle.
Magnum == bandit
Shotgun is missing

[magic loom]

Brutey got a shotty. Thats just ridiculous to me. Giving an enemy some power weapon like that damn....

[signal ivy]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[smoky forge]

Halo 2 is a miracle that it released in the state it did.

[signal ivy]

there are 2 or 3 brutes in that encounter that have shotguns lol

[smoky forge]

There's a reason why brute plasma rifle is just plasma rifle but red

[magic loom]

AR and SMG always felt the same to me I never notice a difference but the DMR just does not feel right at all

[smoky forge]

and by miracle I mean talented people grinded their fingers to the bone to get that game out

[worn iron]

Bandit = DMR imo, kicks like a mule but if you get the follow-up shots right it's basically the same thing

[magic loom]

Who makes adds a DMR and then decides to remove the scope and call it something else? its a cool weapon but the logic is just odd

[smoky forge]

Which are both basically the HCE Magnum, yea? just with a rifle body not a pistol

[worn iron]

And Commando is just a more rapid DMR that works better in short bursts

[worn iron]

I'd agree

[magic loom]

I love the commando, aim feels bizare but its incredible

[civic sundial]

I don't mind the scopeless DMR honestly

[worn iron]

Once you know how to use the Commando (ie 3-4 round burst fire) it's fun as hell

[civic sundial]

More like Halo 5's pistol, the Bandits don't kill in three shots, they kill in five

[worn iron]

You can mow down brutes and Jackals pretty swiftly if your aim and double-tap is good

[magic loom]

If they are gonna add the DMR then just add the DMR its not hard, weird part is theres 2 DMRs in the game

[civic sundial]

There's two of most weapons in the game

[worn iron]

I'd argue the Commando acts more like the Magnum from Reach

Whereas the Bandit is the CE Magnum

[civic sundial]

Again, Bandit needs more shots than the CE Magnum to kill

[magic loom]

How Commando is a rapid shooting weapon

[smoky forge]

There was clearly an attempt made to tamp down the weapon sandbox in infinite.
DMR, BR, Carbine, Light rifle are all similar.
Plasma rifle, smg, suppressor are all similar. (kinda needler too)?
Shotgun and Scattergun(?) -> heatwave
FRG, Rockets, Inceration cannon, -> cindershot
Sniper, Beam rifle, Binary rifle.

[worn iron]

Think of how the Brutes had helmets in Reach, once you pick it off it's another well-placed shot for a kill

At least that's how I look at it

[magic loom]

getting rid of the promeath weapons that was a big improvement, no idea how they messed cool forerunner weapons

[worn iron]

Promethean weapons were so lame. Cindershot is still kind dumb though

[smoky forge]

I'd prefer Brute shot or HCE FRG to Cindershot, but it is what it is

[worn iron]

Or, whatever the shotgun one is

[magic loom]

cindershot I dunno what that is buts it useful and atleast looks forerunner

[worn iron]

I miss the Carbine, such an easy weapon to get really good at

Plus the sound was cool lol

[magic loom]

I despise how Infinite lacks basic human and covie weapons, new stuff is fine but wheres the shotgun at?

[ruby knoll]

nah, we need promethean weapons back

[magic loom]

I love the Carbine, modders even made it even more unique by adding a lasting burn effect

[ruby knoll]

i like a bit of range on my shotguns

[worn iron]

Reach shotgun has entered the chat

[magic loom]

Im Halo 1 shotgun all the way baby

[ruby knoll]

just like bungie was lazy with halo 2 and giving brutes shotguns?

[ruby knoll]

reach
i vomit

[smoky forge]

At this point more weapons would be great for customs + firefight, even if regular Matchmaking was left untouched

[worn iron]

likes promethean weapons
doesn't like Reach
checks out

[smoky forge]

The fact that we had a Halo 3 theme map release with no H3 weapons added signals that's probably not a high priority though

[magic loom]

Reach shotgun, was alright but not perfect

[worn iron]

Infection was the worst lol