Give Challenger Mk.3 Free 1 Veterancy

[mellow halo]

Similar to 79ya's T-80BV IZD. 29

[topaz kite]

iirc Challenger mk.3 is a regular unit (anyway more regular than this T-80), while Izd.29 is a makeshift irregular modification, of course freshly enlisted crew wouldn't do this, thats why they have a free vet

[raw portal]

Yeah, you’d have better luck asking for IZD nerf. 1uk just got buffed a bunch recently.

[lethal socket]

This is not the case at all.

[dusk nest]

What is all over the place is the availability.
The T-80BV Izd. 29 should have 2/1 for its vet 1 and 2, just like a Challenger Mk.3 that can only be taken at vet 1 and 2 (but maybe 3 cards then).

[raw portal]

If I recall, they didnt originally have vet for there IZD. Wasn’t it cause 79y was too similar in comparison too 39y, and 27y, so they gave them additional vet in order to spice them up?

[slender frost]

I thought it was compensation for the loss of T-80U

[gaunt socket]

Judging by everyone complaining/stating is just weaker , maybe it's time now to nerf the vet of the T-80BV Beast.

[slender frost]

I think we should try other nerfs to 79ya first. I have some ideas, like removing TO-55, giving spetznaz GRU to 39ya, giving SU-24M CLU2 to 39ya...

[raw portal]

Maybe something along those lines. The division reworks back then were pretty extensive.

[gaunt socket]

An option, yes.

[topaz kite]

Leave the poor 79y alone, it has lost many stuff already 😔

[flint walrus]

2/1 for IZD 29, so you want to downgrade Abrams M1A1 from 4/3/2 to 2/1 and Leo 2A4(C) from 3/2/1 to 2/1 as well? why?

[slender frost]

Not my fault its one of the most powerful divisions in the game

[flint walrus]

just let people chose their vet and avail instead of vet locking

[flint walrus]

I'm with @slender frost on this one, has been one of the better performing divs ever since release. The osa removal hurt tho

[topaz kite]

Change all the T-80BV to T-80B in 79y arrg

[slender frost]

Personally i dont think OSA removal was a big thing, tunguska + kub is the best combo imo.

[flint walrus]

the OSA wasn't great, but then it received the range buffs and avail buffs, it used to be 2,8km with 4 avail, then went to 5 base avail with 3,1km helo range, that basically removed apaches as threat to 79th.
but with osa removal they added shotgun migs to 79th, so it was a sidegrade in div performance but not a terrible loss.

[slender frost]

Thats an actual buff

[topaz kite]

ah right, it costs less now, nvm then

[young gull]

None of those get free vet

[stable jewel]

Or put the Izd-29 in the recon tab like it is in Army General ^^

[flint walrus]

and how would 0/2/1 for IZD 29 be free vet if it were implemented? Making IZD 29 0/2/1 isn't fixing the "free vet" but vet locking since all you do is drop the vet to standard levels but also remove vet 0 option, which is unfair if such restriction isn't implemented to the others as well.
if your point is remove free vet from IZD 29 then I approve because currently it's unfair to MK3, 2A4 and M1A1. But that means making IZD 29 3/2/1 instead of the current 0/3/2 but at the same time making it 0/2/1 isn't fair either since it's a restriction MK3, 2A4 and M1A1 aren't forced into.

[proven lake]

79 has a worst tank tab of any tank division, so they appear to have gotten an extra card of tanks for free for some reason, rather than just giving them a cheaper tank tab. This is with the one extra 1 point slot transferred from the air tab from the last time I complained about this.

[flint walrus]

but 79th has a cheaper AA tab, four 1AP slots. No other armored deck gets that I believe. Their arty tab is also coming with four 1AP slots.
That far outweighs the 1 extra AP you pay in your TNK tab to fill it up

[proven lake]

Yup just giving it a proper tank tab would we could then stop with things like the strangely vetted IZDs

[flint walrus]

but my point is, that literal free vet just needs to be removed period, TNK slot costs aren't even relevant for that consideration, or is it?

[proven lake]

Ask Eugen, it was their idea. They were added in compensation for the loss of the T-80U and UD so maybe they wanted them to feel a bit special.

I have unused 1 point slots with 79, that never happens with other decks.

[proven lake]

Would I like 9th panzer tabs for 79? Yes I would.

[torpid warren]

@mighty solar @raven karma

[mighty solar]

what makes 79's tank tab bad?

it's 6 1 pts and three 2 pt, that is THE BEST tank tab in the game when you look at how good the avail, and tools it has

[proven lake]

it is expensive. Most tank tabs are 9x 1 points slots and 1x 2 point slot.

[mellow halo]

so t-80bv izd gets free vet because its an upgraded tank, and challenger mk3 gets no free vet because its an upgraded tank, is what im getting from this

[flint walrus]

No, T-80BV IZD gets free vet because eugen can't into consistency and Chally MK3 and Leo2A4(C) doesn't because again eugen cant' into consistency

[mellow halo]

so why downvote even then
i think itd be a good change, better tank gets better crew

[flint walrus]

because your suggestion is wrong, if it were implemented, then Leo2A4(C) would still not have the same veterancy levels.
The only way you can get upvote is if you ask for consistency

therefore if IZD is the outlier, then either it must lose its veterancy, or raise it for all others as well, but you can't say raise it for just one more.

[mellow halo]

ok i see now, so no change can occur because everything must be done at once to be consistent, but doing all at once is too hard so no change can occur

[flint walrus]

opinions will differ as to why and why not. You'll have people arguing that X must remain inconsistent because it's "divisional flavour"

[mellow halo]

i guess, i think its dumb though, currently 1ad is the only div with challenger 3, giving them the extra 1 vet to represent their slightly higher priority for training and crew is good flavor, should be done for all newer models but this is just 1 example

[flint walrus]

I'm a proponent of have each class of units have a consistent set of rules applied for it, but people sometimes have strong opinions about that as well

[mellow halo]

ye thats how it should be

[flint walrus]

it's not a bad option to "fix" the tanks which get hit hard by the availability hammer, and it would be a great way to help some of them. My point is it just needs to be done across all divs consistently.
Sometimes you lose 20-40% availability just becase you became 5 points too expensive...

[mellow halo]

I agree

[sharp rivet]

The first tanks that should get it ahead of Chally mk3 - T-80U/UD and M1A1(HA) because recruits using them don’t make much sense. But considering that it isn’t what the devs decided to do - I don’t see a reason for Chally mk3 to get it. 1st AD is fine anyway

[young gull]

vet 0 =/= recruits as far as I remember

[raw portal]

https://discord.com/channels/471232139661410305/1443461479129944206 and then you downvote aha you’re good at baiting ppl.

[flint walrus]

you must be a chump if you don't see the difference between vet curve and inconsistent base availabilities of tanks

somewhat old compilation, but most of these still hold true and I'm too lazy to look for the updated version

hmm, apparently preggo emoji is banned, time to look for a new one [nvm]

[young gull]

The fact you STILL don‘t understand the difference between something being „inconsistent“ and something being „unique“ is astounding

[flint walrus]

the fact that you still don't understand the difference between consistency and mental gymnastics is astounding

I'm still waiting for your explanation on why IZD gets free vet and other comparable tanks don't. Bonus points if you manage to be internally consistent for once.

[young gull]

I don‘t know whether you noticed, but this is a game, not physics. The developers can do whatever they want, and if it works, it works. If it doesn‘t, then they will redo it at some point. Whether it is „consistent“ to one random guy is entirely irrelevant.

[flint walrus]

Great and internally consistent explanation on why uniquely IDZ 29 has the free vet. QED

[gentle briar]

you are doing mental gymanstics to justify the consistency you made up. Just stop. pls

[mellow halo]

bruh aight imma just ignore upvote-downvote from now on, theres no winning with some people

[gaunt socket]

That's how one must roll.
With confidence, even if the direction is questionable.

[next sleet]

Unpopular opinion but I like the flavor the T-80 idz. 29 and tho k we should leave it be ❤️

[proven lake]

Yeah, if it hada normal tank tab vet curve it would be fine, but as is, it needs it to match other tank tabs.

[sharp rivet]

Tbh I don’t think that it’s unpopular

[proven lake]

79 was in the process of losing it's BTR infantry including the metis, it's T-80U/UDs, the MiG-31, BTR 80s and the TOS-1. The AP costs of all the tabs changed at the same time and the addition of the T-80IZD-29s with their vet curve was meant as compensation for the losses.

[flint walrus]

cool, so basically UK and Germany is getting the same free vet for their equivalent cards next patch, or what's your conclusion?
Cos buffing a div is done by giving access to units, giving more cards, or making slots cheaper/more numerous, not by making random units cheaper or assinging random veterancy levels.

[proven lake]

No because they have different tank tabs and don't need it. Was this blatant favoritism for 79? Yes. Does anyone but you care? No.