These are awesome man. Insanely difficult to downclimb. Can I be honest though? It seems like downclimbs and doing circles or long marathon runs is more of a personal enjoyment than setting routes. Not at all trying to be offensive. I might be out of line. I’m just saying that if people just start doing circles and massive marathons everywhere there will be millions of routes cluttering the real special ones. Does that make sense? For example, Cobalt is likely already a route that goes up. You just downclimbed it. In the real climbing world routes are set by pitch or multi-pitch routes that move across or up. Occasionally a bit of downclimbing is required so that a route can continue up but there are zero routes that go through ten other routes or routes that downclimb to the floor or do a circle.
Hope that makes sense to you and I’m not coming off as a jerk. I’m not trying to at all.
#Deleted
swift sedge
timid moon
These are awesome man. Insanely difficult to downclimb. Can I be honest though? ...
Thats perfectly fine, if my routes dont fall into the criteria set by the devs/mods then they are free to remove them!
But as I see it, a route is a line with specific criteria, not just something special or overly hard. I see tons of routes that are just going out of there way to break the games mechanics as much as possible, which I personally think are just personal enjoyments that dont follow the spirit of the game either but I dont think they should be taken down because its cool to share routes that are possible and try others regardless of the style.
The reason Im doing specifically down climbs and marathons are because I see a lack of them. There is a lot of potential in places that are being ignored, so I wanted to try some, and then post them for others to try. Someone else told me the more the merrier in regards to posting routes because they are trying to compile as many as possible. So I figured why not do some of my own.
Regarding if this post is one that has already been done, before making a route I search to see if anyone else has posted something similar first, noone has posted this route in really any fashion, not even considering its a downclimb too so I think its safe to post.
swift sedge
I understand. But your route Pilgrimage is also a string of other people’s routes. Imagine if I climbed through The Kraken and GetDkammcorder in one go (which has been done) that doesn’t mean I get to rename those routes. Does that make sense? A lot of my routes go way outside the boundary and often do break mechanics, but they are always routes to the top that don’t go over anyone else’s lines. I’m creating different routes to the top, which is in line with climbing ethics. If I climb up Cobalt right now, do I get to rename it? No. See what I mean?
timid moon
No I dont. Im not renaming anything as I havent taken anyone elses routes. Having an existing route in a small section doesnt gatekeep that section exclusively for you imo.
and again, pilgrimage for example, if I search "The Village" there isnt a single route similar to mine.
I can understand wanting to disallow downclimbs. since they arent ascents but rather descents.
but for the sake of creativity I think thats limiting for the sake of it and ignores a core aspect of climbing that this game does well.
swift sedge
Okay. So we agree on downclimbs and circles are not really ethical but feel that marathons are okay if they don’t string any existing routes? I can get behind that.
Again I don’t mean to come off any way. I’m just trying to be constructive. I want the website to a great portfolio of routes that have a common goal of getting to the top. Traverses still cover that, but circles and downclimbs do not.
timid moon
I asked Pluxate for an official answer regarding these specifics. for now I'll keep them up but if he thinks they arent valid I'll remove them.
also I never stated anything was unethical.
swift sedge
Okay. Sorry man. I want to be friendly and I still think your stuff is insane. Keep up the good work!
timid moon
Okay. Sorry man. I want to be friendly and I still think your stuff is insane. ...
the only circle I posted was "Roots" but that was mostly because I wanted to make use of a spot noone was gonna touch. I thought the tree was a good landmark and that under-climb doesnt lead anywhere at all. so I made a sorta looped path thats half downclimb and half climbing up as a challenge and called it roots, since you are going under the tree.
I think thats fine personally, albeit easy, hence why I said its mostly just a practice climb.
swift sedge
the only circle I posted was "Roots" but that was mostly because I wanted to mak...
Again, I get that it’s cool. I think it’s cool too. And I think you should post it, but I also can post about 100 of those today. Ones that downclimb from an edge and then cut over and go right back up. Should the website be full of those? I don’t think so.
wind sierra
Why shouldn’t downclimbs be okay, you do that even in irl…
timid moon
Again, I get that it’s cool. I think it’s cool too. And I think you should post ...
then dont post it onto the website lol
swift sedge
@lyric shore is not going to be able to sift through hundreds of downclimbs and circles for real routes.
timid moon
"real routes"
swift sedge
I said what I said. Downclimbs are not routes. Neither are circles.
wind sierra
One of the rather iconic lines in the demo was under the bridge after the gym
swift sedge
@wind sierra I think if it’s a traverse or a boulder problem that’s fine. That’s ethical in climbing as well. But routes that just go down to the floor are doable going up as well, and they should be named for leading up, now down. For example, every downclimb in real life is usually a trough of some kind. They’re usually fourth class and called “gully” or “trough,” They’re named for going up and they’re not listed as routes on mountain project or in books. They’re not routes.
timid moon
so what you are telling me is if I did Cobalt in reverse it'd be fine
remote tangle
Yes @timid moon
swift sedge
Yup
timid moon
0k cool Cobalt is now exactly the same but in reverse
bonus challenge, downclimb it
swift sedge
Yeah exactly
timid moon
gatekeeping goes brrrrr
remote tangle
swift sedge
That’s what I mean. It’s not gatekeeping. It’s the correct and ethical way to make a rock climbing guide. It’s common sense.
I’ve never picked up a rock climbing book and it says “Start at the top and climb down to the floor.”
New route: “Branching Out”
timid moon
yeah this just comes off as gatekeeping to me ngl
swift sedge
It’s not.
timid moon
Sure.
swift sedge
Look at my picture there. Does that look ethical to post as a route?
timid moon
You see that post doesnt resemble anything I've posted so Im not quite sure why you posted it tbh
swift sedge
That’s what roots does. It’s like the same thing.
I can do it for hundreds of spots.
remote tangle
It looks exactly like roots does
timid moon
Im happy you guys can tell what shapes are.
remote tangle
Haha
Bro just put in the work and go find a real route like the other guys in this chat did. It’s evident you just want your name on a site to see it.
swift sedge
You must have no knowledge of climbing ethics whatsoever.
timid moon
Bro just put in the work and go find a real route like the other guys in this ch...
literally gatekeeping.
remote tangle
If gatekeeping is putting in work and posting routes worth a shit then yeah I’m gatekeeper of the year ma boi
remote tangle
Haha bro it’s no hate I’m just keeping it real
timid moon
just fulfilling a stereotype I see.
swift sedge
Just climb real routes that go up SH. It’s not that big of a deal. It’s what the rest of the world does.
Not being hateful at all. There just needs to be ethics for posting routes. Guidelines to keep from people posting silly lines.
That’s not it at all, man. I want to see more of your work I just don’t think circles and down climbs are ethical. That’s all.
remote tangle
Seems a bit contradictory to say we’re hating but now in fact you are ✨hating✨
pine axle
Okay that was quite a bit of reading, I think Pluxate should be the one deciding whether this is a valid route or not, I'm not coming here to judge that, I will simply tell @swift sedge specifically that if you need to specify you're not trying to be a jerk, that means you already realize you come off as a jerk
And it's okay to be bad at wording your opinions, happens to all of us, but if you see you're not able to make your point without coming off as a jerk, I suggest you leave it be and let other people bring it up if it is in fact a point you're not alone in having.
I think both sides got a bit heated, and yall need to chill out a bit (ShockedHearts included), realize you're talking to a wall, and that doing so is slowly but surely making you both more abrasive as the conversation goes. Which isn't productive.
remote tangle
Bro how is it possible to know if it’s a point he’s not alone in having if he doesn’t bring it up????????????????
pine axle
He brought it up. He didn't need 1 hour to realize he wasn't getting anywhere ?
Did he now ?
I'm trusting you all to be intelligent adults capable of realizing you're not "debating" anymore, you're not "having an argument", because neither of you are going to agree with the other at this point. You do see that, don't you ?
swift sedge
If anyone needs to bring up something hard, it’s always nice to say “I’m not saying this to be a jerk,” —which I’m not.
You say to let someone bring it up. That person was me. You’re calling me a “wall” so that’s not being very nice is it?
I just wanted to have a discussion about climbing guide ethics. It’s not ethical to list circles and downclimbs. Those posts should go in the cairn-routes channel as fun challenges. They shouldn’t be listed as actual routes for a website.
Also, yes I see that. Which is why we both relinquished it to Pluxate to come up with an answer. Then you showed up.
pine axle
Look, you bringing it up, and coming off as a jerk, once, is fine. You being worried about Pluxate having to filter routes is fine.
Now did you really have to bring out routes outside of the one posted here, mischaracterize them, take the time out of your day to do this ; #1474750809567789157 message , when it is pretty obvious that the person you're talking to doesn't and won't agree with you ? Irony and underhanded insults don't make people agree with you if they didn't already.
Should ShockedHearts have stopped answering you earlier ? Yeah, not saying you're the only one in the wrong. Not saying you're the only "wall".
Unless Pluxate explicitly says he wants help moderating which routes are valid to post or not, and add a ruleset that disqualifies this route for example, you are not any higher authority than Shocked or kenink or I, it's nice to voice your concern, but they're not rules, if you can't come to an agreement, just move on.
timid moon
Cobalt - The Arch
timid moon
Cobalt - The Split Rock