Existing Gameplay Changes by Flak

[rustic cosmos]

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[topaz knoll]

no, it is just meaning that they still have time back to join imo

[cosmic cipher]

You would just assume they can come back unless they have either surrendered or that bot symbol appears. Also you completely missed the point entirely.

It is actually the MIA itself that allows the deception behind the fake disconnect stratety.

[topaz knoll]

can u show proof of trolling and dcing

[cosmic cipher]

No. But it is common sense.

[fierce moth]

It was presumably ADDED to limit the 'deception.' the bot out strat has been a thing the whole time. but previously you couldnt easily tell if someone botted out at a glance, or more importantly, if they came back

a player should 1000% be able to tell if another player has left the game, even temporarily, and a bot has taken over. thats all the MIA signifies.

if a player gets bamboozled because someone went MIA, and then came back, thats kinda on them for assuming they wouldnt come back

[waxen swift]

agreed

idk like I don't really see these cases of MIA abuse really... most of the time when someone goes MIA they bot out permanently, sometimes they come back and it's pretty clear they were having connection issues because either you can see the toggling between MIA and present or they bot out for a turn and the bot goes and does stupid things and then they come back and have to deal with whatever's left... it's pretty rare that someone is doing anything sketchy with it in my experience...

[cosmic cipher]

That catnip guy is a troll and knows better than to say that. They can remove the MIA status to eliminate deception and trolling. This DOES NOT mean you wont know when somebody has fully botted out. It just means people wont immediately assume someone is gone when they are manipulating the connection. If that has been your lived experience then we will just have to agree to have gone thru different experiences so I wont be able to convince you. But I would say look at it this way. If they are gone for good then everyone will just wait another turn before going all in on each other and the game is back to normal with no harm done. WITH the mia now people can actually have a way to manipulate noobs. The MIA status is not the only thing they use to indicate the offline status to you, but it is the ONLY one of those that can be manipulated as of now.

[waxen swift]

I mean the only difference is now it shows the MIA status when before you had to click on their name to see if they were offline

[cosmic cipher]

So removing it only solves issues, while keeping it only adds issues.

[cosmic cipher]

There is still the "zzz" and the "bot icon" you can see. And you do not have to click on their names to see it.

[waxen swift]

yeah, not anymore, bc they changed it

[cosmic cipher]

Nah. Its still there. It is just smaller and at the bottom center of each player icon.

I can send you a screenshot since people bot out so much I know the next match will have a guy doing it lol.

[waxen swift]

right but what I'm saying is before the change where they added the MIA bot icons and stuff to the UI, if you wanted to see if a player had botted out you just had to click on their name. now it just shows you in the interface automatically

[waxen swift]

I know what a bot out looks like lol

[cosmic cipher]

You just said the removed it.

[waxen swift]

like a few months ago the interface changed. previously the MIA thing was not clear and if someone had botted out you had to click on thier icon to see their status.

[fierce moth]

im like 99% sure the reason people look like there is a connection issue is ....... because there are connection issues. the networking has been god awful for a lot longer than this update that added MIA status

[waxen swift]

100% the connection issues have gotten worse lately

[cosmic cipher]

I wouldn't know, I never have had a connection issue. Not in the last 3-4 years. Not one.

[waxen swift]

well, like you said, different experiences right? I used to not have connection issues much and then they started happening more frequently

[fierce moth]

you never saw it with other people becuase it never displayed it

now it shows it, now you know weird connection issues are likely happening.

[waxen swift]

yeah there's even a sound it makes when a person comes back from MIA status, you can tell when they are having trouble

[fierce moth]

if someone choose to full send someone whos bouncing MIA to not MIA to botted to back, thats entirely user error

[cosmic cipher]

Yeah, I get you. But at the same time I still have the other arguement that you haven't disputed. The arguement that taking it out only solves issues and leaving it in does not add anything. Only thing that would occur is everyone would just wait 1 turn and play it safe until everyone knows 100% the other guy isn't abusing the connection system.

[waxen swift]

I think leaving it in is better, previously you had to know to click on their icon to check bot out status, now it tells you. it's actually better for noobs bc the interface is clearer

[cosmic cipher]

That sound is nice. All that other stuff should stay. But some games I have seen a noob all in me back to back and get decieved more than once in the same match by the MIA.

[fierce moth]

taking it out means someone can go MIA, let people think they left and then silently come back without anyone noticing a difference

[cosmic cipher]

Right, but the arguement you are making is based on the idea that the other indicators are not there. Which I believe they are.

Let me send that screenshot. Last guy didn't MIA like I wanted him too since I killed him before he could lol.

[cosmic cipher]

I would also add that it is this very line of thinking that makes the deception so useful for people. Since attacking before the other guy is "known" to be fully out can give you a significant advantage.

[fierce moth]

previously someone could leave and come back every turn before a bot takes over, and itll just permanently show them as being present. you would have no idea. the MIA displays clearly that they are NOT botting out. they ARE still there trying to manipulate people

[cosmic cipher]

Honestly you would just see them wait out their full turn time. But that MIA can appear 100 times in a single turn.

I see it 10+ times during a public match where someone does not get attacked when they otherwise would have and only the MIA status saved them.

[waxen swift]

like this idea of MIA abuse is silly to me. if you let a bot take over your turn it's gonna go and splay troops all over the place, losing your cap most likely and just demolishing whatever fortifications you had setup.

[fierce moth]

players generally wont hit a bot

ya, your position gets completely ruined, but nobody is gonna waste troops hitting a bot. thats why it was so powerful before this update. you bot out and let your bot survive cause nobody wants to hit it, it gets so big that the players cant deal with it without getting third place.

and then you get second place more often than not, but that just isnt a thing now because bots (are s upposed to) take placement when they flag

[cosmic cipher]

The pros usually play with Neutral bots though. So that is not always the case.

[waxen swift]

the pros lol

[fierce moth]

or players would previously just let the AI take over and then wait at the "reconnect" prompt. 5, 10, 20 turns later after the humans have hit eachother a bunch, you could take control again and be at a massive troop lead

[waxen swift]

I just personally have not seen this but might be different for different types of games

[cosmic cipher]

I think it is because you are so new. I don't think any GM would agree with you.

[fierce moth]

but that just isnt a thing anymore now that MIA shows. now you KNOW if someones trying to do that, and you also know if they waited too long and accidentially flagged

[waxen swift]

lol

[cosmic cipher]

I am about to take the screenshot now.

[fierce moth]

you can clearly see the MIA icon show up, the bot take over, the MIA disappear and then reappear, etc. its clear as day if its happening. so .... if its happening, dont hit them. duh

wait for the flag, and then you know they arent coming back and can do what you need to

[cosmic cipher]

wow it wont let me post it. 🙁 I see now. I just can't post it to this channel. I posted it in the General chat.

[cosmic cipher]

You are the one they are manipulating lol.

[waxen swift]

sure, okay

I mean I'm not really feeling manipulated or deceived so....idk?