Dice & Troop Ideas by jaxwylde

[oak urchin]

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[floral brook]

this is another of those solutions that seem good on the surface, but just further raise the benefit of going first.

[astral venture]

I think it doesn't really apply well to normal progressive

Would it maybe be better to provide bonuses based on eliminations (and if you only eliminate one player, you don't really gain much - if you eliminate 2+ players you gain 2x+ more points?)

[woven ledge]

Interesting

[astral venture]

In terms of fixed cards it could kinda work? But yeah it'd still have the same issue to an extent

[woven ledge]

It could be a bounty based multiplier, but that may not solve caps stalemates

[woven ledge]

Going first would be an advantage, but it's usually a disadvantage in progressive as you've been getting smaller sets the whole way

so may balance some

[floral brook]

the problem with the bounty system is it would negate the loss from risking your stack to eliminate another player. it's already profitable in the late game of progressive to kill players, doubling that makes it impossible to break a sweep.

[woven ledge]

When you have a real stalemate it's because bounties cannot be profitable at all

the numbers skew after a certain point where it's against anyones best interest to take anyone out, this is to balance that flaw

[floral brook]

it's kind of an intentional flaw though, if you over extend you're basically suiciding. that's why it's a risk?

like I get it- that's why it stalemates, but- you don't want to swing the pendulum completely back the other way.

[woven ledge]

True to a point, but it gets beyond that after enough rounds where everyone is actually paralyzed

[woven ledge]

the key is the right amount of multiplier to balance

[floral brook]

are we talking card sets or country bonus, because I could see an argument for increasing country bonus in the late game, because it gives you an advantage for holding a better position.

[woven ledge]

That could help too

It's just an option players could select to give failsafes to a stalemate, it's not require of all games

just an option you could add if you know you can't play more than a. certain time and all the other players playing want to limit the time you would play

[floral brook]

in the late game dis-incentivizing good neighbor would also hopefully keep it from getting to a full on stalemate, as you'd have to invest more into your borders instead of one or three big piles.

[woven ledge]

I think increasing bonus values is an interesting idea to explore also

[floral brook]

also I suppose late game increasing the cards isn't as much an advantage to player one either... as it comes down more to a "lucky trade on three" I suppose.

[woven ledge]

It may work better for some game modes than others for sure, but it is a solution to the stalemate problem, the multiplier may need adjusting so it's not out of wack one way or the other

[astral venture]

A completely out of the box approach could be if you eliminate a player any troops lost are reverted (moved back) & you get all of your opponents troops

That said, it sounds more like a separate game mode rather than complimenting normal gameplay

[woven ledge]

Almost like a zombies spawn

tying a troop bonus into bounties somehow could be interesting though

[astral venture]

I'm just thinking back to a few automatch games that stalemated - it could work really well for Fixed cards - but it definitely would break for Progressive - might be really good for progressive caps though.

It could maybe balance better as an end-game scenario (e.g. Round 50 reached - eliminating a player reverts game to before your turn, you gain all of your opponents troops & territories)

As a stalemate breaker only it can't be too flawed, and gives a direct association between eliminating players and winning games (in contrast to standard fixed where attack == quick death 💀)

[woven ledge]

This is interesting too as a stalemate breaker, I think for caps some form of stalemate breakers is needed and I've seen lots of progressive GM Games stalemate also (Even non caps) - we all know fixed can stalemate, it's really about the multipliers if you are doing troop bonuses, off card or continent bonuses, but your idea of kind of not being penalized as long as you are successful would work for some game modes as well - though to me it feels less organic than a big draft to just say imagine you didn't lose any troops at all if you are successful. The "Troop Wave" idea or "Mega Draft" Rounds - I'm proposing would be something optional once again that players could have on or off when setting up a game. It would build tremendous tension leading up to those Rounds and even if it didn't end the stalemate it would keep the game very interesting every 20 rounds or so. Tying it to taking a bounty is a really novel thought from you that I like a lot as only by taking action can you get the bonus (that should work for all game modes except caps where you literally can't kill anyone no matter what in some scenarios). There are so many ways to structure it, but some form of troop bonuses from cards or continents I think could definitely be done in a balanced way that allows players to have little chance of a stalemate late game and that would definitely improve a major hole in the game at present, once again it would be optional, so those that didn't want to play with the stalemate "failsafes" if you will could play it just like it is now.

[proper basalt]

Clearly the reason for stalemates is that the sets are not growing fast enough. A geometric/exponential growth is recommended by your (not in-house) mathematician

I now wonder why this obvious fact has taken so long to discover and I wonder if it will take even longer to implement

[woven ledge]

Definitely a good thought Andi - Ultra Progressive Cards where cards troop bonuses scale larger as opposed to just increasing by 5 each set has been put up in ideas before and would be another way to break stalemates in most games - the troop waves idea I'm putting forward could be more impactful for caps and some game formats and would provide more definitive chances to end things, depending how the multiplier rounds are set up, but some may see it as just being a bit too much on the luck side. I think troops waves or ultra progressive cards (or perhaps the idea of increasing continent bonuses as time goes on) are needed as OPTIONS to fix a slight stalemate hole in the game - If they are set up as options no one has to play them unless they want to, so I don't see why there would be much resistance to one or the other being added to the game. @astral venture idea of bonus trooops for bounties is also interesting. If you set in turn from taking a bounty you get a multiplier after a certain round which would incentivize action. Other ideas I've seen is incorporating bounties into the rank scoring in such a way as it incentivizes action