Farming SP is too grindy and not fun enough

[old girder]

Farming SP is too grindy.
The initial game had SP boost, double and triple SP week-end, PVP, raiding your friends bases, invasions, encounters...

While we are currently stuck killing encounters and farming Big Foot Country.

It is the most boring grind you can do and I know something about it, my Heaviers, Super, Maulers, ET, Light Chemical Tanks, Heavy Chemical Tanks and a couple of other are all level 6 (and snakes level 8) thanks to this place.

**We need several interesting and funnier way to farm. Not just mindlessly killing bugs. **

And probably a way to rank up things faster, because this boss strike introduce 5 units:

• the Tresher Tank : 1 566 435 SP needed for max level
• the Aero Bike : 1 930 830 SP
• the Cobra: 1 180 700 SP
• Chunook : 874 515 SP
• Skyraptor: 725 600 SP

And each of them take more than 12 days to finish upgrading.

If we compare to a couple of units we unlocked before those are massive SP amount:

• Heavier: 634 910
• Mega tank: 708 620
• Super tank: 503 805
• Mauler: 634 910
- Trebuchet: 590 770
• Melee/ranged frag: 666 275
• Wimp: 243 940 (and already considered a pain to rank up)
• Radio tech: 319 930

And I’m not counting naval units, that are limited to naval encounters to rank up (a M10 Battleship is 1 750 570, a R1 Battleship 1 426 720, an Ironclad 2 508 365, insane numbers)

One raid on BFC reward 476 SP. Let’s assume you can beat it in 1 minute and only bring one type of unit:
Ranking the thresher tank takes 3291 minutes, or 54 hours, of non stop grind. Not counting upgrade time.

If I am a F2P player, without any Boss Strike drop, I’d like my heavier, wimps, melee frag, ranged frag, trebuchet and mauler fully ranked to fight the next boss strike.
This amount to 634 910 + 243 940 + 666 275 + 666 275 + 590 770 + 634 910 + 319 930= 3 757 010 SP

Or 7893 minutes, or 132 hours of just grinding BFC.

To simplify I did not take into account time to upgrade, time for the player to rank up, the fact that the player may grind other units, and naval battles.

Those values are gigantic, and this create some issue:

• Mindless grind is just painful and a discouragement for old and new player. I do not say that Madrona should remove grinding, I think they should make it somewhat enjoyable. I want to have fun (reasonably) while grinding.
• A new player will be forever behind an old player with no way to catch up. The possibility for guilds/friends to help a new player ranking faster is a good thing I think and could help fix this gap.

Some ideas to fix that (feel free to add anything in comment):

• Max level unit should not receive a part of the XP after a fight
• Limit the amount of SP needed for some unit (who will grind the cobra really?)
• Add a way for guild to reasonably help a new player catching up (like the wimps strategy before)
• Add a new type of fight, maybe something harder but more rewarding kinda like a boss strike fight
• Add a SP boost for the first x (5?) fights you do, so you can use these boosts on boss/different fight then just BFC. Also great to make people come everyday.
• Add "invasions": One faction at random each week-end attack your outpost, and you have a lot of for example raptor encounters. Those are harder than usual and you get sp *2 when you defeat them.

Let me know what you think! And if you have any better suggestions!

[lilac python]

to be 100% accurate, it is faster on some units to grind them with UMGs to kill the bugs faster, even though the points are split in half, but all your other points still stand

its a terrible system and just as BS is repetitive as a gamemode, so is grinding SP as a whole

[lilac relic]

After getting the essentials to R6 (wimps, UMGs, tanks) i legit don’t grind anymore. It’s so unbelievably boring. I just do my daily xp collecting, boss battles and just wait till boss strikes to grind levels on units.

We need better ways to get sp without it feeling like a chore. Games shouldn’t feel like a chore 🤧

[lilac relic]

Getting sp through PvP or some other daily/weekly event(s) could help

[blazing jackal]

I was thinking about this last night, maybe if we get a weekend double sp boost or some kind of way they implement double sp to make the grinds less boring and less repetitive.

[lilac relic]

or double xp for the first “X” battles per day would be cool

[old girder]

yes, I just thought about random events on week end like "invasions":

One faction at random each week-end attack your outpost, and you have a lot of for example raptor encounters. Those are harder than usual and you get sp *2 when you defeat them.

you can easily rotate around all factions, and it should not be hardcore in term of code to add.

[lilac relic]

Sounds fun to me!

High-key I would love to see mini-boss strikes for guilds to grind amongst just their own members. They could implement another leveling system for guilds which you need to grind these mini-boss strikes to progress. Some of the rewards for leveling the guild could be small percentage sp boosts, gold boosts, building speed bonuses, healing times, etc.

If they added a currency that drops from these mini-boss strikes - those could be used at a guild shop to buy specific items like teeth, gears or maybe nanos.

overall tho it would just be a great way to keep people excited to help their guild every week and grind sp in a fresh new way

[old girder]

yes that's true, there are a lot of possibilities with guilds! A guild shop and guild events really seems like great ideas. I'd like to see guilds help new player catching up also

[lilac relic]

Guilds helping new players is a really cool concept. Maybe a way to request aid on certain buildings directly to a “guild aid” chat so everyone can directly assist on troop training or healing or shops for missions

without having to go visit their base

and since there’s limited friend requests that would be very helpful

[old girder]

yes and also the assist system is very annoying, a chat inside the guild where you can put message like "help my hospital" and people can help it just by pressing a button on the chat message could be incredible

[lilac relic]

1000%

half of the time people don’t even know you need help with speeding up a quest item or need healing for a troop even if you used the assist signs 🪧 that are in the game lol

[old girder]

yeah and most of the time people do not go through their 100 friends. Even just a chat in game would make it easy to find the base of an user

[analog shoal]

Maybe we should start small with something we already know Madrona is capable of doing: changing a raid encounter (just look at Greenborough's new raid formation).
With this in mind, I propose a change to the BFC raid encounter as temporary relief: make it 10 Spiderwasp Workers, 5 in the first row and 5 in the second. No Warriors, no Strikers, just Workers.
What this would change:

• SP reward: 476 → 840 (+76.471%)
• Gold reward: 2430 → 4200 (+72.84%)
• No time wasted from Strikers' poison/suppression animations.
• No extra turn needed to finish off the Warrior.

I understand the devs are working on technical/server side things right now, so until we get a better solution this would be the simplest patch to implement.

[kind compass]

I remember double xp weekends or invasions would help break up some of the monotony. Reintroducing those would definitely be an encouragement and more enjoyable than just sitting at BFC

[analog shoal]

This is now it's own suggestion if you'd like to help me out
https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1489475900419608646

[lilac relic]

might be helpful but it’s still a mundane chore 😔

[carmine locust]

Every faction has a stronghold that we never really are able to clear out.

Give us an option to do a boss strike type battle with them with bonus sp. (maybe have an option for an “observer” where the unit gains bonus sp)

So we can choose between silver wolves, raiders, rebels (with multiple formations) so it won’t be as tedious or mind numbing grinding.

[bronze kelp]

I was about to make the same thread but you said it better.

The current state of the grind just isnt really fun. The game forces you to engage with it in the most boring, time consuming way possible with little in the way of tangible reward.
People need to stop acting like grinding wimps, snakes and maulers is fun.

Base Encounters should be the primary source of SP, but the SP from base encounters is worth less than the amount from BFC runs i could do in the same time. The image below shows how little SP you get from a level cap base encounter. As you will notice, defensive units that cant attack take FOREVER to level up. These arent even high SP units.

Its also extremely frustrating because a lot of units just are not worth leveling up at all.

They could do a lot to change how the SP grind works, and I think this boss strike has really opened up peoples eyes to how tedious the game is. The double SP made the grind significantly more tolerable, and i think it was a step on the right direction.

The SP grind is the primary reason why I cannot recommend this game to anyone. In fact, the few people iv told about it were put off by the SP system.
Outside the nostalgia factor, this game is not intuitive or welcoming for people who did not play the original game.
Id go as far as to say the game has aged very poorly since it launched over a decade ago.

But thats not to say its a bad game. It just has a lot of systems that need to be updated and modernized.

TL;DR, this game has no respect for the players time at all, and I firmly believe thats what hurts it more than anything else.
More than the weapons factory.

[vagrant sentinel]

All SP should be permanently quadrupled, period

[bronze kelp]

This sounds incredibly ridiculous on paper, but its not far off from a decent fix.

Personally, i think if we pay real money for a nanopod unit, we shouldnt have to spend hours grinding to make it good.
Take the salamander for example. You have to level it up to R4 I think to have all 3 of its ability slots, and thats the primary gimmick of the unit. During the time you dont have all slots, its very hard to level on its own.

And the SP requieed for the mander to get to R6 is pretty low comparer to other units

Same with the tresher tank. Our guilds spent hours getting thresher tanks only for them to be dogwater out the box.

Thankfully their first few ranks are easy to get up, but then you have to wait for the timer, then grind again, then wait for the timer

[pliant cedar]

grinding is, btw, less painful if you're shooting for something else while getting SP

skyraptor r9 was quite tolerable during the boss strike and ONLY during the boss strike because you were 'grinding' it by just using it

[half bronze]

doubling encounter SP would go a long a way

[pliant cedar]

leaning into that would be nice too

[half bronze]

but some units also just need to have SP costs reduced

SP cap should be 450k

no rank should ever cost more than that

[vagrant sentinel]

The people who clown emojied this are a masochist 🫃

Change my mind

[bronze kelp]

The only viable counterpoint to your idea is that it doesnt fix the poor system, but instead reduces how long you have to endure it

[old girder]

Yes, think that is a good bandaid to not scare away new players too fast. However at some point the root of the issue, the fact that it is really not fun, will need to be addressed

[vagrant sentinel]

Tru

[gentle scaffold]

I remember seeing another post where someone discussed amount of hours it takes to complete/grind through content in this game versus competitors. It’s drastically more.

[lilac relic]

https://tenor.com/view/true-gif-21006811

[bronze kelp]

Other games also have better currency purchase rates but thats a different discussion

Still, i think about that post every time i see nano prices https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1403756057767186502

[gentle scaffold]

There is a bit of baked-in leeway because BN is straight out of the 2010s … but devs need to fix it if they care about longevity for the game. Brand new players won’t pick up BN if they know there’s a 500 hours of mandatory grinding just to consider competing. Less pressure on the nano math if the player base is larger and Madrona can afford to give more value for less $$ because the game is scaled.

And don’t forget, if there’s no one for the whales to dunk on, then they get bored and spend elsewhere

[old girder]

Yes the game definitely need some balance on all these fronts, I want it to be popular but it seems incredibly hard for a new player that is not motivated by nostalgia

[agile orchid]

Even motivated by nostalgia I am so unmotivated to get R6 of so many troops cuz how long the grind is

[craggy ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/lui-thats-the-hard-part-you-gotta-do-it-everyday-i-got-a-pasion-gif-15456197

[lilac relic]

literally me

[old girder]

I'ld love to see small "event" every weekend with sp buff against a specific type of ennemies

and guild stuff could be cool to do too

[swift steeple]

Madrona doesn't seem to understand this aspect of game design and it is a slow bleed. I forget what the current line is because they like flip flopping, but they have expressed an interest in "fixing" occupations before brining them back when filling up fortresses with lighting dragoons was one of the most effective ways for players to help their friends rank up especially when coupled with a double SP or the rare triple SP weekend and a 2x SP boost allowing for like 6-9k ish sp if I remember right on the high end per battle with boosts. And that isn't counting the on base encounters. I think you could be occupied by up to 20 times meaning you could get around 120k-180k in an hour in the original bn. Couple that with boosts being basically free due to tapjoy(I actually understand why tapjoy can't come back) and suddenly instead of days in game a dedicated guy with an active friends list could grind a unit like a frag in a weekend.

There is what an occupation for sp might look like

1528 without boosts or an event, 9168 sp during a triple SP weekend with a boost

My understanding is that for some reason that Madrona does not want to bring this back because they are opposed to low skill/low risk grinding. But, it is things like this that made the leveling in the OG doable for multiple units, though tanks still sucked to level. But as you can imagine leveling wimps was much less of a pain for people with friends.

Anyway sorry for my rant

Would be great if devs made this the GB formation tbh

[twilit turret]

Holy fk

I remember now

Wimp grind was so chill back then

[gentle scaffold]

This was a good recollection.

[lapis grove]

This is what made the guilds so essential. This is what drove the game into a community. People helping people to level up.

[restive schooner]

There is a reason why unit SP reqs were this inflated

[knotty meteor]

I am surprised there hasn't been a single "well you don't have to grind to r6 if you don't want to" argument yet

because I often see those in previous sp related posts

[half bronze]

A lot of the people who would make that argument have been less active recently or left the server IIRC

I’ve been making the claim that nothing should have an SP cost above 400k-450k for a while now

And I’m going to keep pushing that, especially considering I’ve seen what Boss Strike with doubled SP does with costs that high now.

Anything above that is absurd.

[craggy ridge]

Used to be able to pump out 1m sp in a day

[languid bronze]

mandatory posts xd

[tough oasis]

Refer to Greenborough

[swift steeple]

Exactly

[gentle scaffold]

I was thinking this too.

I imagine the following discourse is something like:

don’t play if you don’t like it
lots of people don’t like it cause it’s not fun
game dies (if no solution)

[swift steeple]

Yeah that seems like the trend. I mean donator general is still kind of active, but the subreddit is close to dead again. Madrona needs a really big banger of an update or another boss strike soon. Maybe implementing everything up to level 70. I'll look for it on the subreddit but I think Alex said that they are just gating content and have all the OG stuff ready to implement. I think going forward with like boss strikes if they do what they did with this one of introduce the promo unit permanently and give everyone 1-2 free copies of it that that would fix a lot of what was the problem with promo units in the OG.

Especially as currently the game is single player and I don't think that real time pvp is coming any time soon, just making promo units not fomo is a good thing IMO and allows for rebalancing on a more active timeframe.

[bronze kelp]

opposed to low skill/low risk grinding

So instead they waste all their players time by making them spend countless hours killing the same spiderwasps to level up units because its the most efficient way.

Bringing back occupations/raids in this manner is really the only viable way to save BN that i can think of, aside form maybe reducing or increasing SP.

I have faith Madrona will fix things in the future, but this really isnt something they can bank on people to wait for without getting bored

[old girder]

I would argue that occupation and raid were not that great in term of mechanics, it is not that fun and you have only your friends in your friendlist anyway, it's not like you can attack an enemy guild.

I'd like to see something more interesting to do, there are very good ideas on the thread but invasion during week-end with boosted sp feel like a really good mechanic, that also put paying and free to play player on the same level

[spring hawk]

They really should just allow occupations to be like before where you could sp trade. Many players ranked up units just for this purpose only now they wasted time if the devs plan on not bringing it back the way it was before

I think the system itself is fine, but not having sp weekends, guild boosts, and occupations the way they use to be makes it a big pain for most people. All they gotta do is bring those back and that will make everything easier

[lilac relic]

https://tenor.com/view/steve-carell-nooo-pleasegodno-the-office-angry-gif-12174751

[deft ledge]

To be honest. They need to add back the guild boosts

Even if pvp isnt it. The guild boost was 90% of the guilds point, the other 10% was boss strike

[noble torrent]

I don’t understand people who aren’t an SP increase. I know that part of the grind is required for engagement but having to dump hours into a unit to promote it isn’t fun and isn’t respectful of the (employed) players time.

[old girder]

what's sad is that people will not grind funny units or just units they like because just farming meta units is stupidly long

[proper stone]

I like how the latest announcement did not address this in any way

[lyric socket]

24hr into 48hr promotion for R5 UMGT can’t wait for the wimp!

[gentle scaffold]

Just wait until you have to grind anything else and it’s 2-4 times longer.

[lyric socket]

https://tenor.com/view/singe-monkey-computer-mouse-click-gif-16089924

[valid marsh]

I wonder how hard its to implement preranking back into the game, since thats probably the core issue with SP farming if you are in the late game and you want to use your boss strike/promotional units asap

[tough oasis]

None of the suggestions are really looked at or responded to in any way afaik

This forum ends up functioning as a containment zone

[orchid carbon]

ehh multiple suggestions has been implemented

and SP boost is very high on the prio list

[tough oasis]

Which ones

Only suggestion they implemented was boosting the bnp rates during the event because that one was just absolutely brigaded

[half bronze]

Yazul bs 1 was a suggestion

Lowering the unlock level of chem reservoir was one

There were some others related to bs 1 that got implemented IIRC

[tough oasis]

Can you show me the suggestions thread for yazul that was accepted

or was it in another channel

[orchid carbon]

Implemented:

https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1447550492879097876
https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1450167036041756855
https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1452265465018585199
https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1425298591445942423

To be implemented:

https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1384503791046492221

Partially implemented:

https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1384463115063656522

Lots of other suggestions are implemented but not completely following the post's idea. These are only counting from bs1 onwards

[half bronze]

https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1435525207954821251

here

whether its because it was a suggestion or happenstance I don’t know

Devs have also popped into suggestion threads occassionally

[tough oasis]

Some of these things are weird, no idea what this "cabassador" is?
Weird that someone just asked for a whole boss strike and it was implemented, whilst simpler, reasonable changes, are gone over entirely

Favorites tab was pretty neat
I'd still not get people's hopes up about dev responses when they're really far and few apart

[orchid carbon]

the changes that were campaigned for bs2 was not largely seen in suggestions unfortunately

but they did return infected to give black nanos

give out skyraptors when ppl asked for anti-air (but they bothced the execution)

gave threshers when it was asked for

put back the 95 nanopods tier when it was removed in the draft list (I threw a tantrum)

used bs2 as the first reimplementation of sp boost

and handed out nomads when it was still too difficult for most of the playerbase

a lot of the receipts are in donchat unfortunately, but a lot of things were asked for and granted

[half bronze]

And explained why some stuff wasnt’t

[orchid carbon]

BN community complains as much as it did in z2 times, except this time Madrona reads them and approves them selectively

[old girder]

also from what Andrew and Alex said, the code they inherited from z2 is kinda awful, especially for config, this does not help them go faster.

[old girder]

hopefully they are able to replace old z2 code with their own soon(ish) !

[fallen loom]

It is their own.

The only thing from Old Z2 is art assets.

[old girder]

also configs

in the announcement they said:

I’ve also seen some of you ask why we can’t simply dial the difficulty up or down, and I want to address that directly. The process of editing enemy formations is quite challenging because the configurations we inherited from Z2 are massive and lack any parameterization. Without access to the original Z2 codebase (which relied on customized tooling to function), we've had to build custom Python scripts just to standardize hundreds of thousands of lines of intertwined data.

[fallen loom]

Yes.

The code is their own.

It's not from scratch, it's being recreated from old config files to my understanding. The configuration files are old, rotten foundations they are navigating to expidite the process of the game being recreated. Where as anything else is their own. Configuration files have their own pros and cons, they're faster, but as written hard to navigate.

#battle-nations-discussion message

[lyric socket]

https://tenor.com/view/ogvhs-gif-18199871

[old girder]

I mean the pro is that you have the "balance" of Z2 and do not have to build formations for each encounter/raid, and creating them from scratch would take way more time I assume.
However the Z2 encounters configs are not well thought because it is not a list of fixed unit that have levels, apparently in each wave you have all the infos of each units, making them hard to navigate.

I guess they could build a helper software that will target every similar untis and allows you to modify those faster but a rework of those config seems like the cleanest course of action. Of course this take time, and it isn't new content so people may lose interest in the meantime.

it will be a thorn in their side until it is reworked tho, we saw it during the BS

[fallen loom]

TLDR;
The Z2 Configs are what is likely captures of how things should operate when under Z2's systems designed for them

The reason they suck, is because they don't have things you need. This is because for Z2's usage (Yeah you get all the values here, and generate this config...) They weren't using these to build the game more than orient it.

Madrona is using these config files as they seem to be the only thing leftover they can actually break open. Andrew has pondered just not using them which may have paid off, but... Too late now! They do have a plan of action to make their editing of the game far better, but this is why Boss Strikes must go on Hiatus. The tool has to be developed to do that. Alternatively, they just continue to release the only other boss strike they have, Sovereign, which they'd get more complaints and have to panic-fix again.

[lilac python]

have they tried turning them off and on?

[deft ledge]

Soverign BS would probably just cause people to dip out ngl. Naval as a whole needs tweaking

[pure wave]

Naval needs content, you just have like no options... bar 5 units literally everything is kinda trash... Like m10s, r1s, clads, fish and buoys are the only useable units (Maybe tac sub, but its too niche and too fragile). I am under the impression that naval isnt too bad, bar a few tweaks to combat, they just need to add a whole bunch of units and perhaps buff the weak ones a littlebit

[spring hawk]

Should just make all the boss strike naval rewards available in game but at various levels

Would add some more units to use that have their own pretty useful use cases

[pure wave]

Most enemies we face should be trainable, and NAVAL BS reward units should be completely new

[half bronze]

The second biggest issue with naval is all the indirect

And indirect being a problem in it’s own right.

[stray igloo]

I hear you people, thats why Im quitting early game 🫡

[lilac python]

LOL

[hard lake]

felt, heard, and understood

-# and following in your footsteps

[tough oasis]

After Madrona does the first release of the game with their changes, do consider giving it a look again
I doubt they intend on making the 100s of hrs of grinding brainlessly part of the core game still

[pure wave]

https://tenor.com/view/rest-in-piss-you-won't-be-missed-gif-11891138593237733899

[old girder]

1 700 000 SP to go 💀

[gentle scaffold]

2027

[tough oasis]

MADRONA 2026
MADRONA 2027
MADRONA FOREVER

in short, give them chance
The game we're playing is basically just the devs showing us that yes they have a working version

Rather than re-make the ground up in their vision right off the bat, they set their goal to be old bn first

We're not too far from old BN yk; level 60 soon.
70 was old max
PVP and Occupations are the other last major features, so

[hard lake]

what about the major feature of vaults : )

[tough oasis]

For you and you only, we're putting you in a vault

That's all enjoy the vault

[hard lake]

https://tenor.com/view/scout-in-a-mental-asylum-scout-laughing-in-a-corner-scout-in-a-mental-hospital-scout-laughing-gif-18390446700958692071

[gentle scaffold]

Which coming first, gta 6 or Madrona version of bn

[hard lake]

genuinely madrona bn might come first

[swift steeple]

they probably have one of the rebel BS and the config for the Battle of the Five Armies BS

[fallen loom]

#🚨-status message literally says it was a choice between Shrow and Navy.

[swift steeple]

A) you linked to the wrong post. B) they give shrow and navy as examples. We for example know they have access to at least BS 13, 14, and 16 then since yuzul was a redux of BS 14. All Boss Strikes before 13 might have been overwritten, and the post says overwritten not corrupted which is an important difference. I think they probably have the files for 13-20 and were probably planning on doing a rebel strike or sovreigns in June/July timeframe. And then infected in october.

[swift steeple]

GTA VI

[swift steeple]

A naval strike with the reintroduction of the ATMO as either a promo or tier reward, along with bringing back the navy trooper mini sub, and minelayer as rewards, maybe also a return of one of the drones.

[fallen loom]

A) I corrected it
B) If they could fix overwrites then we would have gotten an easier Shrow not this mess

You're really just full of yourself, aren't you?

[granite wagon]

Funny you included the clad in this when it’s impossible to get one

[swift steeple]

The reason I say them being overwritten not corrupted is to say that they probably have access to every or at the fewest 5 of the 7 boss strikes after 13. Because it would be extremely odd for 13 not to be written over but for 17-20 to be written over.

[old girder]

farming the Thresher is a nightmare 😭

[prime viper]

Why not bring back the boss strike encounters with the added double SP but just no boss strike mechanics

That may have been suggested already

But multi-wave encounters that are long and varied enough that it’s not the same fight every time and it has sizable SP rewards

Even just make it only on the weekends or something but I can’t justify doing bfc for just short of 2000 encounters just for one mega tank rank to maybe make my AS fight one turn shorter

[pure wave]

In my opinion its actually one of the easiest ones to grind… with 5 its super easy to solo pretty much every encounter. I am having nightmare with trebs…

[old girder]

That’s true but last 2 levels are 1.3 millions

What I do is using thresher + treb/radio trooper/whatever I cannot farm alone, it is more effective but the sp bar is growing sooooo slowly

[swift steeple]

Lol with 5. I have two but I get your point.

[pure wave]

I just do it solo. It took me about 1 day to get a bar at r8 (clearing all encounters on the map maybe 3/4 times)

[pure wave]

I get what your saying but its like grinding megas with only buying 1 or 2… having less is gonna make literally every unit more difficult to grind (bar like 3/4 units in the game)

[old girder]

So you do thresher solo and treb + heavier/UMGT I assume?

[pure wave]

Yeah thresher I use to clear every encounter solo, then use maulers and trebs at BFC.

Ive done 6 bars for treb in about a week - tho admitedly I dont really grind for more then a hour a day at BFC as I am pretty lazy atm

[old girder]

yeah me too, and I am still grinding to make more heaviers so I usually grind 20-40 encounters in New Haven with thresher/thresher + raptor so it is way slower

[pure wave]

I see, I am at 170 hvrs atm so I am not actively grinding them, tho I am making more every now and then

[old girder]

yeah that's a fairly comfortable number, I have 135, I want at least 200 before the next boss strike. It should be easier than Shrow, but I still lost around 110 against Shrow (especially before nomad) so I'd rather be prepared

[pure wave]

Oh absolutely, you do have about 6months before next. So thats why I am personally not actively grinding them - tho I do feel this past BS you were actually better of running, wimps, maulers and peacemakers as frontlines, over tanks due to the high piercing damage.

[old girder]

True, I also need around 200 peacemakers but I’ll create them once I run out of widgets

[swift steeple]

Yea, though at least with the chain attack two is actually quite a bit less painful than rank 1-4 megas\

[pure wave]

I am under the impression that 1/2 threshers isn’t worth to do anyway, you literally grinding a frontline tank, that you only have a few off, as soon as they die you have to pivot in your strat. Not to mention its not really meta defining, its one of those units that are kinda nice/niche to have but arent a necessity like at all

[old girder]

Another idea to help with SP could be to have a building you can put some troops in that "train" them.
It could be upgraded for better sp reward, and for example you can put some heavier inside it for 12h in exchange for 10k xp

People will also be able to assist this building for t3 resources

you are limited to one building so it allows you to farm passively without replacing the need of "traditionnal" farming

[pure wave]

Not the worst idea but it has to cost something - in my opinion it shouldnt be free. Say you trade a certain amount of t4 resource(s) for some SP

[old girder]

yeah the balance is hard it have be interesting enough for you to spend t3-4 resources, but not completely busted

[lunar pebble]

Double SP weekends would be great. Even if it’s just once a month it’d be a great reason to gather with the bois and have a good grind session

[pure wave]

Double SP is already coming in May

[old girder]

agreed, this and events with boosted XP seems to be the best solutions to this problem at least short term

[pure wave]

Sp and xp boosts in general should just be implemented ASAP… like I don’t really see the reason why they haven’t been priority… to those ive talked to boosts>pvp…

[old girder]

yeah to be fair the solution for SP seems really easy to implement, so I feel like it is more a question of balance that stop Madrona from doing it right away

I can't wait to see how the boosted week end will go tho

still it feels like a bandaid for now

[pure wave]

Not mention it would probably mean another revenue for them? As more people would spend on nanos - the only reason I can see is the fact that they don’t want to speed up progress still? As there still isnt too much to the game - especially without BS for 6months

[old girder]

yeah true, hopefully boss events will be an interesting alternative to BS while we wait for competitive PvP

[pure wave]

I am under the impression the boss event is just the new Elder sand worm repeatable boss… I can’t really see them doing anything new tbh…

[old girder]

oh you are probably right, I assumed it would be something like an invasion in our outpost. Hopefully since it is an event it also do something for other bosses

[pure wave]

Happy to be proven wrong, but yeah that was my impression

[dire shuttle]

I also assumed this since they called it an “event” but everyone just thinks it’s the new sandworm boss so my hopes just went down when people started saying that

[spring hawk]

Could be that suggestion that one person made a while back of being able to fight all the bosses daily for a week straight

[restive schooner]

maybe brio will finally get the AS frag that they've been yearning for all these months

😂

[pure wave]

Could be, I am still under the impression its probably not, just cautiously un-optimistic

[spring hawk]

I did bring the suggestion up during boss strike and devs did seem pretty responsive to it so it might actually be the case

Granted its not my suggestion I just was the one that mentioned it

[pure wave]

Time will tell I guess

[spring hawk]

At the very least these sp weekends should at minimum be once a month

Maybe have a couple of them during the year be triple sp instead of double

And always have the boss strikes/other events be double sp

[dire shuttle]

It would help with that R9 thresher grind 🥲

Or with the R9 sky raptor since it can’t solo things by itself

[devout siren]

why are you grinding thresher to r9

[dire shuttle]

It’s upgrading to R8. Idk if I’ll do R9 tbh. I’m mostly leveling it up to figure out a snakeless formation for some of my guild mates that didn’t get a chance to get snakes during the first strike

It’s been a struggle though

Wish it wasn’t close to a million sp for R9. That extra health would go a long way with the formation I’ve been messing around with

[orchid carbon]

R8 is sufficient for snakeless formations

R9 is where you can attempt for snakeless and nanoless formations, but that would still be a stretch

[dire shuttle]

I was attempting with R7. I got veryyyyy close, but the extra health from R8 should help. That’s exactly why I wanna get them to R9 as well to do a nameless run

Were you running all 3 upfront?

[orchid carbon]

https://youtu.be/pB86z1ZhK7c?si=_0wK7pNarav6Rkuc

2 r8 threshers

I do not have a 3rd but you only use a 3rd for melee arm kill strats, and melee kill strats with r8 are not viable (you kill too late and do not get to capitalize on the reduced arm damage by then)

this formation simply use threshers for damage momentum to reduce the turns the vets need to survive

Fish have more or less proven a nanoless 3x r9 thresher build, it got within one shot with a r5 rt so a r6 rt would win

[dire shuttle]

I tried killing the melee arm, didn’t work out at all. Believe it or not, I used R3 peacekeepers to stun the melee arm. I’m not even kidding, I was 2 vet shots away from killing it. I was using 3 threshers though. Once they’re R8 and peacekeepers R5, I should have a pretty solid setup. RT was R5

[devout siren]

oh I gotcha

that's very noble of you

[orchid carbon]

for what its worth, I think 3 r8 threshers can pull off an arm kill sentinel kill with vets

but the timings will be very tight to down the arm without stunning it or expending additional resources (tk shots etc)

if you do engage in the above you will place a lot more stress on the vets to survive more rounds of immob to make up for the opportunity cost in damage

[tough oasis]

What if how SP is given out, is changed
And units maxed on SP/pending promotion, don't take an SP cut?

[orchid carbon]

it will help everyone

but it helps ranged frag the most

not even by a margin

by a few times

[restive schooner]

yeah RF is by the best BFC farmer in the game rn

only one unit in the game even has the possibility of one-tapping the entire BFC formation in one go at the moment, and that's the RF

[orchid carbon]

yep, rf does is slightly more than 45% of the time, and one-tapping is considered a sp loss because the sp split gets worse

if it is excluded from sp calcs tho

god

Im in favour

[restive schooner]

even at R3 my frag can one tap if the formation is right and the damage roll is high enough

😂

(and i get fire)

[dire shuttle]

Yeah, we’ll see, idk if I’ll try to kill the melee arm anymore. I wanna keep on trying the stun formation with the peacekeepers since they did pretty solid. They just need to be leveled up a bit

[orchid carbon]

just remember that each time you stun the arm your vet have to live another turn.

actually more, since you are losing early turns that could have been spent on attacks with much higher potential (tk, threshers etc)

[dire shuttle]

Yes yes, I’ll keep that in mind. I’m glad we just have the radio tech now to help deal massive damage

[orchid carbon]

yes. threshers are far from viable without rt

[old girder]

do they increase the odds compared to a heavier/super ?

[orchid carbon]

Should be somewhere between a standard vet heavier/super formation and a vet/mega formation

Simming it will give a better answer imo

[old girder]

ok, I should give it a try

[tacit stone]

Bit niche but this is also an upcoming issue
Besides naval SP being bad already, and the current issue with certain units rewarding incorrect SP, the more difficult encounters actually stop being more rewarding in SP at high levels

Sovereign Navy M10 vs the Shadow Force Navy version
the expected higher SP rewards for the tougher version aren't there

so it'll just take longer to clear for no benefit

[old girder]

that's definitely something that should be fixed

[old girder]

Having a place to raid for naval encounters could be a good bandaid since naval units are the worst thing to farm

[twilit turret]

That would greatly reduce the need for m10s

[pure wave]

Problem with naval balance atm moment is the m10s and WAY better then anything we have access to(especially f2p a bar maybe the ironclad) as someone who trained almost 300 r1s and have been ranking them its night and day between the 2 and naval formations seem to always favour m10 attacks over r1 (seemingly on purpose) so I can’t see how a naval raid spot will benefit bar helping the player rank naval troops quicker.

[twilit turret]

Quicker? The main benefit would be not losing 10 bars everyday

Although knowing madrona, they’d prob slip in a power boat into the raid spot

[pure wave]

Haha this is so true

[pure wave]

I don’t know, personally I lose max 1 a day… and I try to clear as much as possible. Not to mention once you get to certain point, bars are no longer a scarce resource… hence why I have trained 300~ r1s…

[half bronze]

I lost maybe 5 the entire time I farmed r1s to get ready for r6

Could’ve been more and I’m misremembering

Either way they don’t die as often as people make them out to against encounters

[twilit turret]

The only real threat is a power boat critting. So, it’s rly not that common, but enough to be annoying.

For some reason, r1 only gains 50 ehp rank 2 and then 95 rank 3.

[orchid carbon]

how well does r6 M10s and R1s do against 60 bosses?

assume r6 buoys as well

[old girder]

before level 65, I think M10 will be hard but feasible (bonus point if you have ironclads), but R1 seems realllllyyyy hard

[old girder]

The chances we have a real event increased exponentially !

[dire shuttle]

🤞🤞🤞

[pure wave]

Indeed. The fact we got the new boss now screams there is more to the “event”

[pure wave]

I imagine you will have 50%+ clear rate with r6 m10s. R1s will be rough af till r7+

[orchid carbon]

then it seems a little worse, if not equal to r4 (46) battleships vs 59 bosses

so, a 250k sp grind for m10 and r1 more or less and its not that much of a concern

not the hell we thought it would be

[pure wave]

It was gonna be hell without the naval cap - I believe my guild ran some simulations with r5 m10s and the clear rate was sub 20% with r5 m10s and no clads - against 60DN you needed atleast 2 clads to have it above 50%

[orchid carbon]

... yeah
so it was like naval bosses at 40 maybe a bit easier

if r6 is all thats needed I think its not the end of the world for 60 bosses

[pure wave]

Odds with current max naval (before 65) it was LOOKING REAL ROUGH. Especially for kraken

[orchid carbon]

... 36% on kraken

jeez

[languid bronze]

ranking naval is so ahh

eff ts

[orchid carbon]

r6 is bearable

above is yeah

[pure wave]

Ehh its not meant to be done quickly - if you are consistent with your clears you should get it done in no time (except last rank for clad lmfao)

[orchid carbon]

fair enough, but imagine if r7 is needed for an ok clear, ppl will have to push fast to r7 to get semi-reliable clears on DN and that will be much more upsetting

r6 being already farmed out by many endgame players, or being just 250k otherwise is much more tolerable

[pure wave]

I mean it for sure isnt good game design… but its what we have

Hopefully we get raid spots for naval soon… otherwise the last ranks for some units just seem indane

Insane*

[languid bronze]

getting a bfc like spot for naval would make it much more bearable

[pure wave]

I mean I kinda disagree… m10 needs 1.2m sp on last 2 ranks, ironclad needs 1.8m sp… there needs to be boosts or alternative way more SP going around

If a naval BFC was to come you would need to clear it 6000 times to get the last 2 ranks on both those units

[languid bronze]

its just waiting on multiple clears of the whole naval map

id rather farm on one map or battle than slugging through loading times

esp. with how the loading times have been the past updates

[pure wave]

Oh I am not saying one is better then the other

I am saying its completely unreasonable for BOTH.

Naval raid spot alone is not the solution, unless it drops 2/3k sp a clear

[languid bronze]

i mean im a grinder myself and i still find it tedious

not everyone's like us or some hardcore grinder

[pure wave]

The reqs for high rank naval stuff is INSANE. Its literally batshiit crazy

[languid bronze]

its just the fact of the matter

id rather cater it to them

than us

im ngl

i can do it

the question is whether id like doing it

for naval, its always no

[pure wave]

I am still under the impression a naval spot won’t make the grind any less tedious, just more convenient as you take the waiting out

[languid bronze]

grinding without clads and m10 is like pulling teeth

u have better chances of not going batsht crazy

[pure wave]

Not to mention that… lol

[old girder]

I need one more clad before lv 60 😭

[old girder]

I think another good idea could be to boost xp given by boss.
968/1276sp for the dread lv 40/60 is nothing

4640 for AS is better but it could be at least 10k

[restive schooner]

Yeah, it's not like you're going to be abusing bosses since they're on a fixed timer anyways

I dont' think it hurt anyone to provide maybe 15-20min worth of SP grinding at BFC as a little add on for defeating a hard boss like AS

[pure wave]

Just need boosts and raidable spots for naval

That would fix most issues for the time being.

[devout siren]

honestly? 20K SP for dreadnought is reasonable considering naval takes 1.2 million SP to go from r6 to r8

F it, 100k is reasonable

[sour ledge]

What if you could craft SP boosts in a shop? That would give lower level players an option to get SP boosts prior to fighting bosses. High level players would have the resources to craft them Or would spend $ to have them.

[pure wave]

Just reimplement the SP boosts already… like at this point it really makes 0 sense to withhold it

[slender gulch]

Who would have thought that the guy who was still complaining a few months ago about people asking for the addition of SP boosts and making the grind easier would now be asking on his own to add the boosts. You're so ridiculous. You ruined several threads that were asking for these implementations because of your fake ragebait and now you're flip-flopping LMAO

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-clown-laugh-wanted-gif-25134166

[pure wave]

Classic.

[pure wave]

With naval, tf2 and chinook it’s actually a reasonable time now (as SP reqs are v high) previously it was just a loud lazy minority. Course it makes more sense now

[slender gulch]

It was always the right time. Most people asked for boosts right after the AS dropped because we needed R6 on a lot of units to have a decent chance of clearing it. And besides, since you farmed the Snake and the Thresher R9 without complaining and while trash-talking everyone else, you shouldn’t have any trouble grinding the Chunook and the TF2 units since the grind is similar. Right ? 🤡

[orchid carbon]

I think we all agree we want sp boosts, lets leave it at that

[old girder]

sp boost are nice but I am happy to see that they are working on a more long term solution!

#general message

I can't wait to see the solution they will found, they also said that pvp might help with that

[pure wave]

Your rage and anger blind you and you fail to see any reasoning. Grinds have been more than bearable bar maybe 1 or 2 so far. As we get further into late-game there are more and more units who have a very lengthy SP req, mostly made up of TF2, chinook, cobras and specifically naval - where there is no raidable spot to sp grind. And your point regarding the AS is just really poor… if you were keeping up with the game and maxed vets and super, while acquiring a couple snakes - the AS was a relatively easy clear - all you need are max supers, max vets and r7+ snakes with a freeze unit(rank irrelevant) - which you had months to grind for. The snake literally took sub 3~ hrs to r8. Bar the timers. If you lacked that commitment you didn’t deserve to clear AS early.

🤡

https://tenor.com/view/french-french4dummies-gif-22646079

[spring hawk]

Yeah before when most units had at most 400k sp the grind rates were fine albeit would still be nice to have some sp weekends. Now tho everything is like 900k to 1 mil sp for max rank which is way too much for units without boosts or at least a spot thats twice as good as bigfoot

[tough oasis]

You forgot the part to include that this is your opinion, and not an objective fact

I don't find the grind to be bearable

¯_(ツ)_/¯

This is Battle Nations we're playing, so yes, we did sign up for a grind
But there's varying degrees to grinding, and BFC being umg, attack with whatever you're ranking, umg, umg
Yeah well that's not very healthy

[pure wave]

The devs have stated that there’ll be a better option soon. So either you grind or wait.

[tough oasis]

Your opinion on who deserves to clear the AS and who doesn't deserves to be put in a hall of shame at how much of a head-in-ass take it is

[pure wave]

And thats your opinion.

The game rewards those who grind…

[tough oasis]

https://tenor.com/9abK.gif

[orchid carbon]

I did the grind for vet and megas early because I play unhealthily long (4-6 hours of commute time daily) . For normal players it’s not very palatable

[pure wave]

Ofc not, but we are not normalising that… I can grind 30 mins a day, or less or more. Noone is forcing you to do it.

You can complete all content in the game casual, just don’t expect to be competitive with limited grinding and playtime?

[tough oasis]

AS is the only thing that can't be casually done afaik

[pure wave]

Hard disagree.

[tough oasis]

Post the casual AS comp

[orchid carbon]

Fair, I think 30 minutes a day is will reach r6 goals eventually, but it still is a commitment over a month

[pure wave]

You had 3 month to prepare for AS. All you needed is vets r6, supers r6 and a couple snakes from BS1….

[tough oasis]

You have no idea what casual means, noted

[spring hawk]

1 hour of play a day will r6 any unit under 2 weeks if the sp total is under 400k

1 hour is nothing lol

[pure wave]

If you play sub 1 hour a day you are casual af.

[spring hawk]

Within 3 weeks you could r6 supers and vets playing just an hour a day

[tough oasis]

Sub 30 minutes is the casual expectation

and that's not 30 minutes of pure grinding, either, mind you

[spring hawk]

30 minutes??

[tough oasis]

Yeah?

[half bronze]

30min to an hour without focused grinding is casual

[spring hawk]

That is a lunch break a day

[tough oasis]

What do you think casual means?

[pure wave]

Clearly not whatever you think it is…

[spring hawk]

Thats not even casual thats just checking your phone a few times a day equivalent

Most people spend way more than that on TikTok daily

[tough oasis]

Pick up your phone, do some quests, maybe grind a bit, move on
Not even every day

[pure wave]

Arguing for the sake of arguing.

[half bronze]

Casuals don’t really focus grind units, they mostly just clear encounters

The hour a day for a week is also wrong as it takes closer to/over 10 hours to grind most tanks at bfc

[spring hawk]

Most issues would be fixed for players if they spent 1 hour a day grinding units with the TV on the background. Keep on mind thats 60 minutes

[pure wave]

But with that in mind surely you cannot expect to even rank some units??? Like the problem lies in the fact that you arent playing or motivated in playing the game at all… whats the issue then?

[spring hawk]

Thats why I said 2 weeks. 2 r6 units is 20 days = 3 weeks

[half bronze]

Misread that

[pure wave]

Which is easy af and you won’t even notice

[tough oasis]

The issue is that for casuals, the SP is too grindy and not fun enough

That's literally the topic name

[spring hawk]

Its like pokemon. The more you use a unit the more sp it gets

Rn it just sucks because of the amount of sp per event

Could add some other things here and there to make it easier but theres no real way to overhaul it completely

[tough oasis]

Devs are working on some overhaul of sorts, we know this much

[half bronze]

Regardless

Casuals don’t sit there and grind bfc often because they have more important/higher prio things to do is the point.

It’s also why a lot of live service games nowadays have some combination of bonuses for first x clears or energy systems

Grinding is also easily one of the worst aspects of games and why so many “grindy” games nowadays have auto or double clear functions

[orchid carbon]

Kepler, I agree with you on AS not being very fair especially for newer players without snakes and fewer nanos, the sp wall being a month or two of grind for casuals, and the drop RNG…

But you need to deliver your arguments less offensively for a conducive discussion

[tough oasis]

I did go in with the idea of not respecting some1else given what he said earlier

Sure Henrad was rough but, people who reject an idea just to then change their minds when it affects them specifically, I don't like em

Also, pretty sure people who point out the SP grind being rough, also said that with what to expect from future unit grinds, in mind

[orchid carbon]

yk what that is also fair

[pure wave]

Either way people are entitled to their own opinions as-well. Gotta respect that.

[slender gulch]

I think we can afford to be a little harsh on the biggest hypocrite on this server, who’s now switching sides. Especially since he didn’t hesitate to ruin suggestion threads about adding boosts months ago. And yet he’s still clinging to his elitist view of the game while trying to take advantage of the benefits that casual players have been asking for months

[tough oasis]

Also, I gotta add this
I don't actually hate some1else or anything crazy like that, for me it's no skin off my teeth

[coarse cipher]

https://giphy.com/gifs/come-at-me-im-here-big-bird-H6W9H29kVsUI2hJE90

[pure wave]

Noone ruined anything? You don’t understand that these are SUGGESTION THREADS, where people are entitled to their opinion wether that aligns with yours on not? Its a discussion. And its entirely up to the devs to listen or not listen or alter these suggested changes and if or when to implement them.

You are taking this way to personally

My opinion can change just like yours, or not. And I am entitled having an opinion on the matter just like you are. Even if that changes is over time.

And I stand by my own opinion that SP boosts weren’t necessary at all till after post lvl60.

[spring hawk]

Agreed. While i would be happy with boosts earlier on in the end it wasnt big of a deal till the last level cap. Bigfoot and naval encounters aint enough to get some of these units maxed even when consistently grinding

[dusk wyvern]

Much as I agree with the sentiment of the thread and disagree fundamentally that SP boosts Pre-60 are unnecessary - some1 has a point.

It's not hypocritical to change your mind, concede points, or analyze why you feel a certain way and go "hmm, maybe I'm wrong".

"erm sorry sweaty, you must be an infallible monolith or your a hippo crate 💅 "

But I think if we want a best of both worlds. Why not just change the SP brackets for certain unit types? Lowering the SP thresholds for certain rather than add boosters?

Like we can agree that - for example - some of the BS units we got from that devil woman Shrow like the Chunook were EASY to max. I doubt we need SP boosts for those.

But for something like Radio Tech - things get a little harder.

[slender gulch]

Of course you can change your mind, but to go from the extreme position you were holding just a few weeks ago and do a complete 180, I’d just call that hypocrisy

[dusk wyvern]

Is he not allowed to change his mind?

Some people get passionate. It's natural. The internet fosters this stuff, man.

[pure wave]

Call it whatever you want. I didn’t see the point of boosts till these extreme cases of SP reqs were reintroduced with the past up. The end

[dusk wyvern]

Honestly though. How does that alternate suggestion of lowering the SP max of certain units sound?

[tough oasis]

#1499486417447817276 is a goated suggestion
Some units could definitely have their SP requirements toned down

[dusk wyvern]

A blanket SP buff would probably also incentivise new players to invest valuable nanos (dangerously) into low level units that don't have value methinks.

[tough oasis]

The new player experience being filled with traps is kinda an entirely separate issue

[dusk wyvern]

Still - introducing another by proxy wouldn't be ideal.

But I digress.

[tough oasis]

The second part of the SP grind is that, not only is it very long, but it's also just click the same 10 things endlessly

For that, the "Boss Strike-like" occupations that would be very tough but very rewarding, would be very fun to see
Like, enemy occupation has 5 waves or something

[slender gulch]

Imo he could change if he had originally taken a more nuanced view and started to understand the other side’s perspective. But his change of heart only came about after the level 65 update because it directly affects him. It’s just opportunistic and hypocritical to change his perspective so drastically and so quickly. That’s all. Also, I don't think you're very up to date on the remarks he was making in the other suggestion threads. I don't think you'd be defending him if you had taken part in the 'debates' with him

[dusk wyvern]

Honestly - the more I look at it, the more the issue becomes that these numbers were built on Z2's model. We're playing Madrona's with Z2's numbers.

[dusk wyvern]

He literally tried mogging me, too.

I'm sorry that I'm not as adamant about fighting an opinionated guy in the discord for a Freemium mobile game from 2012

[tough oasis]

[dusk wyvern]

Live and let live. You'll survive. I promise.

[pure wave]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[dusk wyvern]

Wait wait wait. Hold up.

Hold on I just had a realization.

Wouldn't the fact it affects him now mean he now sees the issue?

Wouldn't this mean it vindicates your stance because now he agrees even in part?

[tough oasis]

some1's point is that, pre 60 grind is fine, post 60 grind is not fine

The problem is, the solution some1 proposed, to add SP boosts would affect the pre 60 grind

[dusk wyvern]

Fair enough. I just think it's funny to look at in the reductive lens.

"He doesn't agree with EVERYTHING!!! How DARE he!!!"

[pure wave]

At this point you guys are just trying really hard to keep a personal vendetta going? Can we just move on and agree that SP boosts would be nice if they were reimplemented? End of story... what is the point of even arguing about this lol

[dusk wyvern]

^

[tough oasis]

I'm js talking cuh

[pure wave]

Its my opinion, which I have weighed up in a DISCUSSION thread.

[coarse cipher]

Hey everyone, just a quick reminder to please keep this thread focused and related to the discussion at hand. This thread is important and will be reviewed by the developers (they will look at this), so your feedback and opinions genuinely matter for the longevity of the game, communication with the community, and overall direction moving forward.

It’s completely normal for disagreements or different points of view to come up, but please keep discussions respectful and constructive toward one another.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to contribute.

[pure wave]

If you disagree feel free.

[tough oasis]

Me personally I don't like SP boosts lol

[dusk wyvern]

But yeah - I personally feel like either lowering the SP totals for certain units and/or making tiers of SP boosts gated behind level would solve a majority issue.

So maybe a level 10 can't have a 2x booster. What's he gonna grind? Troopers?

[tough oasis]

SP boosts being paid in merits rather than nanos would be goated, heavily incentivizes assisting friends

I know there was like a 10 minute 1.25x merit boost but, that was kinda sad

[dusk wyvern]

Wait you're cooking.

Dawg I'd spam assists if I could get SP boosts from it nowadays.

[tough oasis]

Same probably

[dusk wyvern]

I only engage assists now because my clanmates ask for help. And to occasionally gamble on resources like bars.

[orchid carbon]

z2 let you buy sp boost with merits

but not great conversion

i think 10 merits for 25% sp for 15 minutes or so

[tough oasis]

The prices for the boosts were rough

[dusk wyvern]

Well. Madrona's got total control over that now.

Chiefly - I think Guild SP should return.

[tough oasis]

Madrona is cooking, this is guaranteed
Game is still in its infancy, so lots to come

[dusk wyvern]

Which is cool - we get to help steer the ship.

Any kind of alleviation to the end game grind would be welcome at this point.

[tough oasis]

I think suggestions is good, though sometimes it feels like some suggestions could be a poll instead; or have one alongside them, for more concrete results

[lilac python]

I think Madrona knows it’s too grindy, and will change the numbers when/if they are able

If not, then that’s pretty telling of their vision of the future of BN

[dire shuttle]

Why did you rage bait so hard though, if you don’t mind me asking? You did disagree with a lot of people back then and cause a lot of arguments, lol

[pure wave]

https://tenor.com/view/some-men-just-want-to-watch-the-world-burn-batman-alfred-quotes-gif-14054558

[dusk wyvern]

As someone he got for a bit - I'll admit, it was funny.

But yeah - the more I think on it, the more I realize that end-game units are, indeed, an ass-pain to grind ;o;

[tough oasis]

I don't think it was rage bait ngl

[dire shuttle]

😭🙏 I’m just glad it’s over

Hopefully, at least

[pure wave]

whatever helps u sleep at night

[tough oasis]

I don't do rage bait

[pure wave]

if it helps it helps

[twilit turret]

https://www.inc.com/wanda-thibodeaux/the-no-1-reason-people-wont-admit-they-were-wrong.html

[spring hawk]

[devout siren]

good work

[vagrant sentinel]

Tbh i dunno what’s to debate. Just give triple sp like the 3 day every day. Or at least every weekend

Or shorten the cap of all units. There’s literally some units out there that need 1.6million sp to go R6

[pure wave]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-funny-cat-restarted-restarted-cat-gif-15391897819478178046

[ripe fiber]

I mean we deserve more sp in general but lowering reqs ain't the way and triple sp every few days means people aren't gonna play when it's not up

[analog shoal]

Every time someone mentions an extended/permanent SP boost they get mocked like this, as if grinding the exact same mindless battle for 20 hours to fully utilize a single unit is somehow perfectly acceptable, and that's not even for a naval unit.
You're going to see people asking for better and longer boosts until we get whatever long term solution madrona is cooking up. Until then, the argument is simply that we already have a "solution" that the devs can turn on with the press of a button whenever they want.
Also can we please remember #⚖-rules rule 1 for heaven's sake 🤦

[analog shoal]

Valid point. 2x or 3x SP every month or so would be enough for me and calm a lot of people down

[hard lake]

notice how the only person who downvoted this is the one and only Greenmarl

[analog shoal]

Greenmarl is not even in the server anymore by the looks of it. Wonder if that account finally got banned 🤔

[hard lake]

NOOOOOOO

my goat is gone....

[coarse cipher]

[twilit turret]

Temporary x boosts are a bandaid solution

And imo, not a great one

Because it encourages you to play periodically on those boosts

Can we start with a new leveling zone besides bfc?

And/or increase encounter xp by several times

They’re naturally limited by respawn time so you can’t endlessly grind them and burn out.

[wary cypress]

That and mission encounters. mission encounters should give ridiculous amounts of SP; imo players should be able to get the first few ranks on their mainstays from mission encounters alone. I feel bad for early game units like the grenadier, scout bike, or machine gunner that unlock powerful or unique attacks as they rank up but are quickly outclassed before a new player would ever think to grind their SP

I don't think it's a big ask for encounters you can only do once

[old girder]

encounter should give more XP because you cannot just spam them using the "battle again" button, which make them more tedious to farm

[ripe fiber]

Yea encounters just don't give anything useful

Gears at new haven is faster than doing encounters and bigfoot gives a lot of sp

Gold's is also worthless

[dire shuttle]

Damn, how are we ever gonna know if a suggestion is good now without the clown stamp of approval 😔

[pure wave]

Just @ me if you want one

If your suggestion is acoustic enough, it’ll happen

https://tenor.com/view/acoustic-dumb-funny-cat-cat-cat-acoustic-gif-8219440572128691401

[dire shuttle]

🫡🫡🫡

[exotic sapphire]

I completely agree. My two brothers and I played the game when younger, and were so excited to hear it come back. Now, I’m the only one who plays, and they both stopped playing after only a month. This probably isn’t due to solely the SP grind, but their reasons for leaving isn’t really my point, and has to do with other factors I believe Madrona is aiming to fix, I hope (interacting with each others bases was probably the most fun part of the game, and I don’t mean assists).

Regardless, like you said, I haven’t tried once to recommend they get back into it, nor anyone else, because the endgame grind is absolutely mind-dulling and leaves nothing to look forward to after maxing your resources. I also think it is ridiculous that you have to pour tens of hours into the game just to stand a chance at beating the games bosses. I was able to scrape by with R5 units for the AC, but still get walked with unfavorable RNG.

At level 60, I don’t plan on even playing naval anymore because I didn’t take the time to rank up my units to compete with these level 70 bosses. I’m simply not interested in pouring hours of time into these upgrades just to play the game.

So many people seem to treat these mindless grinds as a part of the game and I genuinely think it’s unhealthy for the game’s longevity. If Madrona really wants to open this up to a wider audience, they can’t continue running off nostalgia and pushing a system that necessitates players pouring hundreds of hours of boring gameplay to progress. SP boosts are really only a bandaid to this problem, and there really needs to be a rework.

I realize Madrona is a small team and they’ve done a great job bringing this game back to life, but there is a long way to go. I’m sure the pressure is on them and has been for a while, but personally I may also call it quits with my brothers if this summers PvP update doesn’t bring some major changes.

Grinds aren’t new of course, but they typically aren’t entirely boring. A mobile game I thoroughly enjoyed several years ago was CoD Mobile, in which I voluntarily grinded the gun skins because playing matches was fun and engaging.

It’s not fair to compare these games as they are totally different, but if it is a necessity to pour so much time into Battle Nations just to progress, at least make it engaging and fun!

[spring hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/i-ain’t-reading-all-that-happy-for-u-tho-happy-for-you-tho-sorry-that-happened-too-long-didn’t-read-gif-9353839682789985827

[pure wave]

Just fyi it doesn’t take hundreds of hours to max units. It literally takes 10hr/unit… maybe more in extreme (like recently released stuff) - you have to invest time to get to the better units and thats fine - whats objectively not fun is having to do it at the same spot with no variation hours on end - if the gameplay was more rewarding and less repetitive the grind would be acceptable to most. If you aren’t willing to invest time into the game - it’s not for you. So many expect to be max and competitive after 5 minutes of game time.
Madrona is making changes and improving on the game, but you are wrong to expect major overhauls - there will simply be more engaging ways to play the game rather then sit at bfc for 10hrs to get 1 unit to r6.

[bronze kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/brian-family-guy-tiktok-funny-clip-tasty-sand-gif-27509497

[pure wave]

Ofc there isnt anything wrong with mindlessly grinding if thats your thing, but there should be alternative options

[spring hawk]

Guild boosts

[pure wave]

There are a few obvious implementations madrona could do immediately (using old game designs) to improve the grind while reworking some new ideas.

[orchid carbon]

the biggest casualties of a sp gate is always fun

I grinded out all the units for meta use and I have absolutely no desire to even do a 20k for fun units

if this doesnt change its hard for many to have fun playing with off meta units even if they keep up

[bronze kelp]

I remember around the time i started playing battle nations, i was also big into The Respawnables when it came out in 2012.

While its a completely different game, it was a lot of fun to grind at the time. Every match was different, even with the offline bots, and there was a huge variety of weapons to try out for a mobile game.
While there were objective p2w weapons, they werent foolproof.

Of course, thats not a fair comparison either, but my point is that even back in 2012, games could prove to be entertaining on repeat. Though Respawnables wouldnt be the most consumer-friendly game if it came out today, its still not as dated as Battle Nations, even with other tps/fps competitors

[orchid carbon]

tbh theres a lot of factors going into making sp grinds unfun

the sp costs being astronomical is the big one, and forces you to do the most efficient fight (BFC, BFC or BFC) , and use carry units to AOE most units wherever you go

maxed units taking up SP gain again disincentivize you from using them, despite adding fun to your fights

z3 has already shown that they could make sp grind feel fun by adding a x2 to bs2

many games have a long grind system but BN is one of the rare ones that manage to be actively hostile to the entire gameplay experience while adding nothing to it

[half bronze]

I think another issue people have with the grind is actually needing the unit.

In most competitors games, you farm upgrade mats not units.

I think the system is fine, just not the implementation because it doesn’t really seem to take that into account as is.

Needing the unit adds a layer of depth to it, but it also means you always need to wait to farm it.

Can’t farm while it’s upgrading, can’t farm while it’s training, can’t farm while repairing. All of this adds to the time it takes to rank up units.

If you don’t nano things, Every unit requires at least 6 days of waiting where you are actively punished for using it.

[pure wave]

To every argument or point there is always a counter. I am not disgreeing with you, but to your example you can just use Clash of Clans as a counter - objective it is an insanely grindy game - even compared to BN that not only you need spend HOURS grinding resources but also wait literally weeks to upgrade things. Its just the way its designed (and its one of the most succesful mobile games ever) - that doesn’t necessarily make it fun (atleast not for me). Madrona has to approach BN’s development from several sides which is why I think they haven’t made any drastic changes yet - as they are trying to assess the situation and figure out the best way forward. Atm you risk making the grinds “easy” and hence people running out of content too quick! Also have to consider the financial ramifications - you can just make you game again too easy or not requiring time/money invested as it can quickly become less or not profitable, lastly there is already a system in place - to understand it, to change it, alter it takes time and effort. I just wish atleast we had more options to grind SP as in the z2 days I don’t remember it being this dry due to regular events (BS and 2x sp), guild boosts and occupations.

[pure wave]

You arent “punished for using it” lol… actually in the end you are kinda rewarded… you grind for better stats - that requires investment - but thats the problem at the only way to invest is to sit down and mindlessly grind the same crap over and over again.

[half bronze]

…

You can’t be serious

[pure wave]

https://tenor.com/view/yukleniyor-gif-18955750

[orchid carbon]

when the promo timer is going on or unit is maxed you are losing sp using it

[half bronze]

And SP is the main reward from encounters

[orchid carbon]

as much as I like using threshers Im punished for using it now that its maxed

[pure wave]

I mean this is a fair point I guess

There is an abrupt ending to using troops that are maxed

Its like there is 0 incentive anymore

[orchid carbon]

yep, its just one of the many factors that make sp an actively punitive mechanic

[half bronze]

I just think something needs to be done about it.

Either they don’t use SP or something is done with the SP they gain

[orchid carbon]

tbh

let maxed units give 50% of SP into a saved pool that can be given to any unit

when you use a unit eligible for more SP it will get 2x SP drawing from the saved pool

[lilac relic]

ur lucky i didn’t copy/paste that here

[pure wave]

You said xp not SP

[lilac relic]

dang it

[orchid carbon]

Madrona is sadistic is Madrona is sadistic is Madrona. Madrona wants their fans to suffer suffer suffer suffer sadistic suffer for some sadistic reason. It’s why they disabled sadistic boosts for so long too. Allegedly 3% boost rate yet people have 100+ sp with no Madronas and other people have 20+. You might be thinking that’s just normal sadistic deviations, but I can assure you it’s not. Madrona has disabled Madrona drops for Madrona people for sadistic reasons. Can’t figure that part out maybe they just get off to it idk. But that’s why they won’t implement a suffer system. They don’t want everyone to suffer for sadistic reasons. Same reason they had the snake be the reward for bs1 when it was impossible to see if your guild was Madrona or sadistic.

[analog shoal]

I'd personally love to see BN take some lessons from Warframe, another F2P game whose entire play cycle revolves around grinding but actually does it well. The amount of time you spend ranking something is just enough for you to get used to using it, and most of the "grind" is instead spent aquiring the gear in the first place.
Warframe also has pity systems and anytime you grind for something new, you're heavily encouraged to use other things you've spent time on already to speed things along, which is why it's actually fun.

[ripe fiber]

Madrona is sadistic is Madrona is sadistic is Madrona. Sadistic Madrona is yes.Madrona wants their fans to suffer suffer suffer suffer sadistic suffer for some sadistic reason. It’s why they disabled sadistic boosts for so long too. Allegedly 3% boost rate yet people have 100+ sp with no Madronas and other people have 20+. You might be thinking that’s just normal sadistic deviations, but I can assure you it’s not. Madrona has disabled Madrona drops for Madrona people for sadistic reasons. Can’t figure that part out maybe they just get off to it idk. But that’s why they won’t implement a suffer system. They don’t want everyone to suffer for sadistic reasons. Same reason they had the snake be the reward for bs1 when it was impossible to see if your guild was Madrona or sadistic.

[lilac relic]

love me a sadistic boost

[analog shoal]

...And now this post turns into a copypasta too...

[lilac relic]

that would be sick

[orchid carbon]

tbh I actually got burnt out by warframe's system

[ripe fiber]

Warframe is peak but it's a game u gotta play in cycles

[analog shoal]

I'll admit it's not for everyone 🤷

[orchid carbon]

wasnt the xp that did me in but their battle pass

[analog shoal]

Way more satisfying than BN at the moment though

At least for me

[ripe fiber]

The battle pass wasn't the problem for me

[orchid carbon]

I found the grind to get the umbra thing in the first battle pass excruciating and that was the cue to drop it

couldnt pick it up again after

[ripe fiber]

It was my 7 forma stuff

[half bronze]

I never really even managed to get that far into Warframe in the first place

Gameplay bored me too quickly

[ripe fiber]

I was really end game but it's a game u need friends for

Solo ain't it

[analog shoal]

Isn't this kinda the type of game BN tries to be? Something you play for a bit and then wait? Most of BN is waiting out timers

[ripe fiber]

Yep

Warframe had some crazy grinds tho

Standing was awful

[analog shoal]

SP is just the one thing in BN you can't farm semi-passively, it's weird

[ripe fiber]

SP isnt that bad imo but it's too time consuming imo

We either need auto battles which just wouldn't be that fun or we need increased rates of sp

[analog shoal]

Yeah something needs to change at some point

I personally found some of warframe's harder grinds quite fun because I enjoy playing the game itself

Figuring out how to outsmart the grind and do it faster

BN just doesn't allow for that right now

[ripe fiber]

Idk I just ran arbitrations and sold rivens with funny looking rolls on em

Game is fun but the end game gets stale

Kind same w BN tho

[analog shoal]

Okay but hear me out: warframe's endgame is literally just fashion. BN doesn't have that at all and it's sad

[analog shoal]

Arbitrations were peak warframe for me

[slender gulch]

You're simply wrong (as always) about the Clash of Clans grind. Your analysis was accurate 10 years ago, the resource grind AND the upgrade time were indeed very significant. Today, as far as the resource grind goes, that's no longer the case at all. You can easily just play 10–15 minutes a day and manage to upgrade your base properly. So yes, the limit to this farming is that you have to wait for your upgrades to finish before you can start new ones, except that this type of grind is the complete opposite of BN's. If we were to apply the Clash of Clans grind to BN, it would mean that farming SP would be very simple and much faster through just encounters, but with a much longer upgrade time. Personally, I'd take that type of grind any day. (And funnily enough, it's this formula that still works just as well after more than 14 years 🙃 )

[orchid carbon]

the only difference is CoC is now twenty times more predatory

meta strategies are now all locked behind hero equipments, forcing FOMO to grind up their ores only for them to get nerfed

miss an equipment and its a $20 worth of premium currency to buy it

seasonal upgrades for top level because fk you for not rushing temporary defenses to keep up

CoC has managed to learnt from all of its pretenders , and not in a good way

[slender gulch]

I agree with your assessment of the game's current state (and that's partly why I stopped playing it myself), but we were talking about the grind in the game here. So that's not really relevant to my point

[orchid carbon]

hmm, I mean, if they cut all sp costs by 5x, lengthened promotion timer by 5x but let us run 5x promotions at once, would that be a fair balance

[slender gulch]

Not let us run 5x promotions at once, that would be too much imo. But otherwise yes I think reducing SP cost but increasing promotion timer would be a good thing for the vast community.

[orchid carbon]

hmm

for a very long time I have an insane promo timer backlog

that will set back new players longer without some way to go around it

thats not nanoing timers

[slender gulch]

Also, I know Alex stated somewhere that he planned to advertise the game once PvP is reintroduced to attract new players, but imo the game won't manage to drastically increase its playerbase on the long term without addressing the grind itself. It will be completely off-putting for the average player who has never played the Z2 version. Don't forget that if we keep playing this game, it's largely due to nostalgia. Now take that away and ask yourself whether or not you would have started playing it today (the answer is no)

[pure wave]

Its so crazy that you still refuse to put your ego aside and understand that actually you are the one thats wrong. I would love for you to explain how you can grind 10-15 minutes and afford any upgrade in Clash of Clans - it literally requires you to log on several times a day and actively grind (costing millions - in heroes case if u wanna be remotely competitive it takes 12-20 attacks to farm enough DE/E to afford an upgrade - thats ATLEAST and hour of gameplay per hero per upgrade to be in a position to actively upgrade them - in the meantime you cannot use them if they are already upgrading - not to mention there is 6 of them!) - especially if you want to max yours stuff out… you literally also cannot properly attack without heroes! So you are stuck in a loop of grinding out upgrades while waiting for upgrades… You’re assessment is always super one directional and its blinded by your hate and dislike of me! Even though we are agree-ing to the same point you are factually completely incorrect… And like many things I have stated it’s often opinion based. Regardless the deep rooted idea of the game is actually incredibly similar - yes it requires a different kind of grind and if you read my other messages you would understand that I am arguing for the idea of having an objectively less repetitive and more fun way to rank units. I am still under the opinion that especially you would go insane if the grind was any more similar to clashes as it’s incredibly predatory and works on the whole idea of spend gems to skip timers (and afford upgrades in some cases) to be able to attack and use your army properly… (thats heavily reliant on the SIX heroes you need upgrading in a cumulative literally YEARS of upgrade timers and thousands of hours of resource grinding) not to mention its hidden with regular fomo features and regular events to hook you in

[pure wave]

You also don’t know this for sure and speculating based on your own experience just because you don’t like the grind that doesn’t mean other people won’t either. MANY here have stuck around here despite the difficulties.

[tough oasis]

unless you're maxed with 50k steel storage ready to be used, gl running 5 next to each other 😂

Getting 8k steel for these promotions is proving to be a bit of a challenge for me at level 51, 2 normal steel mills

[pure wave]

Its not surprising tbh, if you are f2p resources come much slower for you then those with advanced collectors and such- this is why I think the unlimited hospital idea is great - but ultimately it won’t help you much - as you will run out of resources to heal units quicker then hospital space. It just helps you spread out healing timers better. Hence why that should’ve also been implemented ages ago…

[tough horizon]

They could increase SP reward from bosses

[pure wave]

Its too little of a change - you get to fight bosses once a week and many require pretty specific lineups

[tough horizon]

AC you could still have it in the back row and get some SP

I know but it is still much more practical a solution vs reworking a ton of code

[pure wave]

With 3 frags maybe💀

[bronze kelp]

I think dissolving the SP split between units would resolve a fair amount of issues

[tough horizon]

Typo, I meant AC

[exotic sapphire]

Beating a dead horse here but personally, yes, the only reason I still play is nostalgia. The game has become boring to me. According to some people, this means the game isn’t for me. I find this to be a simple, bad justification for a poorly implemented system that is over a decade old, as I genuinely used to love the game and want to enjoy it like I did with the people I played with.

I have faith Madrona will recognize this, because coping and convincing oneself that mindless, chore-like grinding is necessary and reasonable will absolutely kill any aspirations of bringing this game to a wider audience, and in turn kill the game a second time, which I would hate to see. This can be argued against endlessly, but it is the truth.

To connect to your point, no I would not play the game if it was released today and didn’t have that nostalgia factor. Furthermore, I don’t believe in the denial that is being pedaled, and if it subsists I do fear for the future of this game.

I had been looking so long for a review or suggestion that covered this, and I am so glad it finally arose, because I’ve felt this way for a long time, pretty much ever since I finished my wimp grind.

I think it’s also important to mention that I feel I am pretty representative of a relatively casual player base. I can’t imagine the average player accepts that tens of hours of grinding per unit is a worthwhile progression strategy, let alone fun.

I recall when the AC guide videos came out, all of them assumed R6 units. I can’t imagine how demoralizing that is for a fresh level whatever who has played the game casually and has R4 maybe R5 units, who now has to grind for “10 hours max” just to have a fighting chance at beating that boss. I was sure demoralized, and still struggle fighting the AC without that advantage.

[drowsy brook]

It would be nice if there was an SP multiplier based on the unit (when you unlock it) vs your current level to make it much easier to get to max on some of the earlier units and this would help them scale to hard battles as you level up.

Trooper unlock at level 1, when you are level 6 (+5 levels) you would get and additional 50% SP, level 31 = 300% extra

[analog shoal]

The main reason the grind feels so atrocious is because it gets exponentially longer the more you progress and SP income doesn't keep up to match, instead just stalling and sometimes even dropping after a certain level, forcing you to grind many times longer for higher-level units. It quickly turns into a losing battle and there's still some units not introduced yet that are so much worse still... Plasma tank and plasma artillery, anyone? They both have well over a million SP to R6 🤦

[pure wave]

Plasma units likely will come back completely reworked. As they used to be broken AF.

[fallen loom]

It's not that you specifically represent casualness, it's that most people who play casually do not really engage with the Discord, time has become more valuable to me, and within here, you'll find people who argue with your for the simple sake of arguing / play the game to an unhealthy amount because... Idunno I guess they have no better games to play lol.

Most the community sentiment (sanely) tends to be just what was already said. The game has major flaws, runs on nostalgia, and Madrona seems to have good intentions / be a strong foundation for the game. It's just not in a good position right now and people generally play it with the hope it becomes better.

[lilac python]

My nostalgia meter is starting to run dry :(

[hoary slate]

This is the biggest problem of this game, too repetitve too grindy.

[shell oxide]

probably one of the games biggest problems, but also it’s easiest solution. The 2x SP event is at minimum what SP needs to be like from encounters past level 50

with some of the egregious units and naval getting big cuts too

[slender cobalt]

Increased timers would suck

[drowsy brook]

What about if they just gave the total exp for the battle to all the troops you used. Instead of splitting it up between all of them.

[tough oasis]

Would be pretty cracked at level multiple things at once
Though the core issue still remains

The endless BFC grind would just still... be there.

They announced async and synch pvp, personally I have pretty abysmal expectations about them, but we'll see after release
What's worth mentioning is that these will have SP rewards, as the devs hinted that they might help the grind

[old girder]

I think something that could easily be implemented and make thing a bit more interesting is a multiplier of sp on the base/world encounter (for example *3 on base encounter and *2 for world encounter).

BFC farming still exist for people wanting to grind as much as possible, but for other you can clean all you encounters for a nice sp gain, meaning you do not just mindlessly kill spiderwasp in BFC, you have a minimal amount of strategy required)

maybe also adding harder base/world encounters, higher risk higher reward

[ripe fiber]

Please fix promo timers

[woven galleon]

Create a new building. '"Enhanced" shake shack'. The jobs in it require you to spend max level wimps who get blended down into sp for some other unit over hours. Ex: 5 max lvl wimps, 1000gold, 3 hours = 1000 sp to gunner.
If the concern is you dont want specific units getting the boost: dont create a job for them. If the concern is getting the wimps maxed too early: not an issue since they need to have been grinded to even use the building, which would also require all the storage and adv res to get them there. It encourages the use of the barracks to replace the wimp losses. You can only boost one unit one at a time via the job system. The jobs could disappear if hit max rank, it could cycle through units, or a lot of other ways to focus the sp leveling on the units the devs want: like none of the overpowered max lvls

[mossy mauve]

I am glad someone else mentions the atrocious time required to rank up a lot of the units in the game. I too have an issue with it

[ripe fiber]

the promo timers is way worse than actually having to grind

its literally u getting punished for playing the game

[old girder]

I would not call it worse but I agree it is frustrating, especially with boss strike units that have several 2 days long promo timers

Also an issue with x2 x3 SP is that I really don’t want to farm now because the reward is so low, and the grind so slow

[primal girder]

I don't want to grind because it's slow and time consuming period, it asks too much per unit it's rediculous

[autumn sail]

I like grinding

[ripe fiber]

I do too but there's a limi

[autumn sail]

Perhaps there’s a limit but it remains unfound

[ripe fiber]

I really don't care too much about the farming mostly the months of timers for promos

[twilit turret]

Just massively increase encounter xp

It’s like 20 hours straight of bfc for the million+ sp units.

[autumn sail]

Cream