#Heavy Grenadier improvments for differentiation

51 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

neat belfry
#

so some of the guys got together in the General chat and we understood that the demoman exists and we realized that Heavy grenadiers arent worth buying and really in a way neither are demomen in a sense because theres better units but i have an idea to set the grenadiers apart from demomen so this way it helps entice new players at the lower levels to spend money and help the devs.

Now looking at the grenadier uou can see that it has a launcher with 4 barrels but we were wondering if you huys could add an attack to its move list that lets you fire all 4 barrels at once dealing splash damage at a reasonable amount in a center point of attack that fans out in all 4 directs by 1 square of the point of attack chosen (a Cross formation) like what the mortar troop does. this could be unlocked at level 2 or 3 in the units upgrade tab when it reaches the set amount of experience. Tweak the damage/splash damage accordingly of course.

This way it gives us an early artillery piece and makes the gameplay more dynamic at such an early level which in turn entertains younger new player to stay in the game and spend money too.
Now i say that because the thing is... single fire rifles at the beginning of the game does get a bit boring for players trying to see how they like the game and i really want this game to stay and grow ever further then imaginable.

having this ability to create a deviation or differenciation from other troops adds the diversity to the selection of tactics and game play styles that would Tremendously develop this game into greatness and i would love to hear back from you guys on your thoughts and opinions regardless of what they are this way i feel like im helping. Even if you guys send over a simple: Yes, No, Maybe, Not Yet, or even a detailed explanation as well.

i hope this message finds you well .
Jake Renaud aka Biohazard99

sand vortex
#

i would clarify you mean heavy grenadier

#

but beyond that i agree

rustic saddle
#

There is an important factor that is missing here. The TF2 units are promo, they have just found their permanent residence in the barracks, as Z2 left. Left. The grenadier on the other hand, has been in the game since 2011.

sand vortex
#

yeah but the heavy grenadier would still be bad without demoman to outclass it

#

this is because it was designed as an extra unit stapled onto a nanopod bundle

rustic saddle
#

In general, any unit made during 2011 fell off as the game went on

#

The TF2 units existed since about 2014 I believe?

woven pasture
#

Yes, I 100% agree that the hvy grenadier needs a buff, to see one of the most unique designs is so weak compared to demoman which is just a basic looking grenade launcher guy is disappointing, the guy clearly got armor plating on him so I suggest giving him armor aswell, if the buff doesnt suit the early game then instead make him midgame and buff him accordinglig

rustic saddle
#

Maybe later

sand vortex
#

the supreme mini tank that replaced it has FAR higher stats

#

615 ehp is equivalent to a fuckin r2 heavier tank

rustic saddle
#

This reads the same way anything compared to TF2 does.

The early game units suck, and need to suck less

sand vortex
#

pretty much

#

they were designed for a game that didn't even have armor yet

#

the meta they were a part of is buried at the bottom of an ocean

woven pasture
rustic saddle
#

People playing early were coerced into using promos / nano unit equivalents (Trooper< Shock trooper, Grenadier < Hvy Grenadier) and those that joined during the steam release could catch up much faster with these TF2 units that follow you the entire game

woven pasture
sand vortex
#

those units weren't actually designed to suck they just weren't made better when everything else changed

#

there was a time when rangers were actually good

rustic saddle
#

I... When?

#

Huh?

sand vortex
#

remember, no armor existed at the time, neither did SP

fallen raven
#

pre armor is my guess

sand vortex
#

that is correct

#

that's when they were designed for and they succeeded then

#

this was also a time when a unit was done when it ran out of ammo

#

'reload' didn't exist

fallen raven
#

armor was a good idea, but implemented poorly because it ended up just leaving HP units in the dust unless you're like Veteran or Mauler

sand vortex
#

and ranger has ok ammo economy

woven pasture
#

give them R9 unlocks and let them have special abilities which makes them valueable or balance change em, if the hvy grenadier is so weak compared to demoman, then reduce hvy grenadier nano cost so you could either get strong demoman or 3 hvy grenadiers? Idk just something to make atleast MOST units useful, especially when they cost nanos

sand vortex
fallen raven
sand vortex
#

TK is an example of what happens if a unit is adjusted

#

and it's a goddamned atrocity

rustic saddle
#

I understand these units not being updated Z2 didn't really balance beyond keeping F2P in check.

I just never remember the Ranger doing much, cuz Commando or otherwise. Then again, I was not a meta slave back then I was a stupid t-word

sand vortex
#

it was an extremely extremely old era

rustic saddle
#

I played at release just didn't understand mechanics more than shiny keys

woven pasture
# fallen raven https://discord.com/channels/463817609130016788/1460400997418668113 I actually ...

just read it and this seems good, I see the first comment talking about "there has to be a sense of progressing into new units" which I agree with, however the weaker units doesnt have to be THE strongest, but like why does it even cost bars to upgrade the starter unit 😭 These units doesnt need to get much stronger, just adjust cost, ranking up cost etc. Not only would it make them more useful but also I dont think Z2 understood the RULE OF COOL

fallen raven
#

I only somewhat agree with the sense of unit progression, I more just think it was done really, really poorly by Z2

sand vortex
#

the problem with SP is they didn;t design it individually

#

they clearly automated it

woven pasture
#

Would the demoman still be stronger than the hvy grenadier? yes, but whats cooler, having 1 demoman or 3 badass hvy grenadiers that is easier to lvl up? Now even f2p get a handful of cool units which are decent instead of just 1-2 units that cost t3 rss to heal

sand vortex
#

and early units are a huge victim of this general cost issue

fallen raven
#

early units are also a huge victim of low XP to level up making the time it takes for them to be outdated fly by

neat belfry
#

Heavy Grenadier improvments for differentiation

pine quail
#

Heavy grenadier requirements for promotion needs changing too. To promote to rank 4 you need 10000 iron same as the wimp.

keen kindle
#

Really insane idea, but the Hvy grenadier's animation/sound indicates like 5 grenades fired in the 1st attack but it only hits 3x... I'd say gove him 5x hits (and take an ammo away if that's too crazy)
Also 2nd attack launches 2-3 grenades but hits 5 tiles to idk

Maybe have the first attack be line of sight and the 2nd stay indirect?