PVP unit bans

[astral mason]

Once or before PvP comes out I think a system of letting the 2 players each ban 2-3 units or perhaps more units that are banned for both players for the entire match would alleviate the presence of oppressive units and meta units and encourage more adaptive plays and counter plays making PvP a much more interesting and less stagnant experience

[raven glen]

Good idea but our current unit roster is too limited at the moment to consider ban lists, would be better if implemented after more units are added.

[astral mason]

I mean PvP is like more than a year out

Probably

I might be dead before it comes out

[spare cave]

Unit bans are insanely unfun.
I‘d rather they balance it entirely than this.

[astral mason]

Is it more unfun than the same couple units being used everytime

Because even when fully balanced a meta will emerge

[spare cave]

true. Sucky either way.

[raven glen]

There will always be outliers for units even after balancing in PvP. Removing those outliers through bans creates a chance to explore different options imo

[astral mason]

It creates a rock paper scissors effect

[spare cave]

I still hate bans more, personally. At least then I can do what I want and don’t get troll banned

[astral mason]

Like oh he banned this

And might ban this

I might ban that

So I can use this

It creates like deep thought

[spare cave]

Then you still have meta bans and are exactly again where you started

[raven glen]

Part of that is why I’m saying it’s a bit too early for an idea like this, we have too few units to work with yet

[astral mason]

Instead of mindlessly using the same thing

[astral mason]

But it creates more player thinking process

That if he bans this thing

He’s probably trying to do this meta

And I can counter him by banning that

[spare cave]

the meta meta

[astral mason]

I mean

It’s in clash royale and stuff like that people have meta cards and counter meta cards

And all the stuff

Most competitive game modes have a ban system

Alright

Yall some haters

https://tenor.com/view/cat-no-nonono-noooo-cat-no-gif-13597132752790194338

[daring anvil]

No. It’s just genuinely not thought out well at all

[astral mason]

That’s why it’s in like every comp game ever?

[swift valve]

BN already has buffs and Nerfs for certain units when it comes to PVP so no need to ban just make more units balanced

[astral mason]

But wouldn’t a clear top meta still emerge even when it’s fully balanced

This enables like a rock paper scissors mind trick element to PvP

[daring anvil]

You proposed a banlist system similar to rainbow 6 siege where each side picks 3 units to ban for that match(es)

That system only works when theres a limited roster of units, each with a wide variety of roles. Battle nations DOES NOT have a wide variety of roles. It is literally just a numbers game. You just ban the most potent units.

Endgame-level matches will have players only ever banning the exact same 3 units: LSW, mech artillery, plasma artillery or some other sh. That literally changes nothing about the meta landscape at all, because theres a myriad of other units that all do the same thing - show big numbers on the screen.

Lower-level matches will have players banning the pelican so that smurfs can guarantee a win with their r6 wimps on their level 17 smurf account. The other 2 bans can be literal whiffs if you don’t predict it right because theres like 289 units in the game.

another reason why this suggestion is stupid af is because you make your formation before you matchmake with someone……. Your total unit pvp value pairs you with the player, so how can you suddenly ban units when each side’s formation is already decided?

[swift valve]

You can never stop a 'Meta' but if all troops are balanced with buffs and nerfs then you can get close to even. The wimp gets extra damage from fire on top of its already extra fire damage so that it can be countered in PVP. Make each have a good weakness in PVP

[astral mason]

So increase it as we get more units make it 5 6 7 on both sides

And since the unit is banned for both players it does change the meta

[daring anvil]

are you going to help the devs develop a ui that shows every unit in existence for the player to choose to ban for every single match? That is just such a waste of time

Especially for lower level players, you’re putting unnecessary friction onto the player to choose 7 out of 289 units in the game to ban. That considerably lengthens the amount of time wasted for players who just want to play the game

[astral mason]

Also I suggested that you queue into the match based on a total point value but you pic the units once you actually load in so if you try to go over the point value once you load in the game won’t let you start

[astral mason]

Based on what weight value league they’re playing at the ban amount can be different

[daring anvil]

ahh so now the player on the other end is punished by having to wait for you to make up your mind on trying to get the perfect point value?

[astral mason]

Make it like chess when once the timer runs out you forfeit

So bottom league where it’s low level players mostly

It can be 1-2 bans

Top league when it’s level 70 players mostly it can be 7-8 bans

The number is arbitrary

I’m just pushing the concept

And make it ranked so when you win more you rank up in that league

[daring anvil]

How do you propose the banlist even fits in the UI for the 289 units in the game.

[astral mason]

So Smurfs aren’t punishing new players

[astral mason]

Just make it a search bar

Type in the unit name

Ban it

[daring anvil]

you are literally asking every single player to scroll throw a wiki when they just want to play the god damn game

[astral mason]

Like a Pokemon pc storage

[astral mason]

No?

Most players will have an idea of what to ban

Through their playing experience

By losing and winning

Or just make it like after 45 seconds if you banned nothing then you did a no ban

lol you hate the idea now but I promise it’s gonna become more popular once PvP comes out and it plays like it did before

[daring anvil]

how to be the most annoying player with this system:

• look at enemy’s army
• ban every single unit they decided to bring because now we can magically ban 7-8 units
• now opponent has to reconsider their entire army again considerably increasing the time it takes to complete a single match

With a game like BN, banlists should be entirely in the hands of the devs or people hosting a community tournament

[astral mason]

You can’t look at their army

Because they don’t pick it until after the ban phase

[astral mason]

7-8 bans is also for the top tier when we have like 300 units available

And now opponent have to use their BRAIN and think of STRATEGIES instead of doing this bs

That’s from the arena mode but the point stands

[daring anvil]

are you sure you’re playing the same battle nations as the rest of us? Banning the top 8 highest dps units will just make BOTH PLAYERS use the units next in line. NOTHING about strategy will change at all. I already said this; bn is a numbers game. All units in endgame will 1-2 shot each other.

[astral mason]

No one’s saying you had to ban all dps you can ban tanks aoe etc you can ban units ur weak on units you dont even have

Nano units

Boss strike units

[daring anvil]

If you don’t ban lsw or mech artillery you’re an idiot. There will always be a general fixed consensus amongst players what to ban every single time.

who tf cars about banning tanks if every endgame unit has all indirect attacks

[astral mason]

And then there’s 5-6 more bans after that

From both sides

At that level

The first bans will target the most meta but it’ll branch off to more niche units the further you go down the ban line

Ur also forgetting not everyone has the exact same armies?

The exact same nano units

Boss strike units

Etc

Ur assuming everyone’s on a level playing field when this actually leveled the playing field

[bleak flicker]

I mean, isn’t PvP based on a points system per each unit? Doesn’t seem like much a point for a ban system when you create your army and then search for a player with a similar point army.

Like what you pick 2-3 bans and then it finds someone in the pool who doesn’t have those units that also banned 2-3 units that you don’t have

[mortal ibex]

-# Matchmaking system wouldn't have enough players to justify a mechanic like this tbh...

[astral mason]

I wanted to be like you queue for 500 max right

And then you pick the units for the battle after you load in

After the ban phase

And they can’t go over 500 whatever value

Like you queue for a weight class

Not with a pre set army

If that makes sense

[bleak flicker]

Interesting, I would need to think more about how to better PvP as I didn’t do it too much outside of the daily rewards.

[astral mason]

I just remembered it took forever to find a match

And it was slow laggy and ass

And everyone was using the same things

[bleak flicker]

I never really did the higher tiers of plays so I mostly stuck around with units I could mass produce and not lose out on too much for two hours

[craggy obsidian]

Unit bans are better with smaller rosters than bigger ones in my experience

Bans actually matter when there aren't 5 of the same unit

Like u can ban most front lines and have an almost exact replica

[young pendant]

and then you run into That Guy who runs the timer out every turn

[astral mason]

Which is why they should make it like chess, you lose when ur time runs out

Like each player gets 5 mins to make moves the whole match

Or something

[astral mason]

lol this is like the most equally polarizing suggestion ever

[fair lion]

Unless you give like 20 bans it'll still be the same units over and over again

And after enough bans it'll be all air meta lol

[astral mason]

How do we know that

[fair lion]

Because if you give enough bans so that all the overwhelming spam units it'd also be enough bans to get rid of all the significant AA units...

Bans only work properly in scenarios where the interaction and variety is more limited

[astral mason]

This is assuming that all 280+ units make it back into the game in an unchanged state

Also we’re talking about ranked most people will have similar units this is just to prevent stagnation of a boring meta

[fair lion]

more because of that of those 280+ units so many is just either completely meta defining or completely useless

[astral mason]

And they probably won’t make it into the game in the same state they used to be

And some of the useless ones might be elevated

[fair lion]

Then no need for bans anymore is it?

[astral mason]

There is because there is always gonna be a “most optimal meta team” even in a balanced game

[fair lion]

Well yea, and that's even with bans

[astral mason]

And also it gives people that don’t buy nano units or have BS units a better PvP experience

[fair lion]

I kinda agree with the BS units part

it's so chance dependant that if someone were to have a full team of, say, AS or Goliath drop it's GG

[astral mason]

I think the nano part is more important because you can get bs units from grinding

[fair lion]

Oh mb I mean boss drop not BS

[astral mason]

Or that

All three

You can ban in ur favor

That’s the whole point

[fair lion]

Then it's better to have a hard list if that's the case

[astral mason]

I mean if both players have range frag

[fair lion]

maybe a hard ban list OR a limited roster

[astral mason]

Then they’re probably not gonna ban it

The ban is applied to both parties

So if you have a strong unit why would you ban it

[fair lion]

how'd you know though? If you ban goliath drop and they have full AS drop it's still gg

and if you have none of those, well

[astral mason]

If you have none

[fair lion]

no ban amount will be enough

[astral mason]

You’d just ban them all

7-8 bans bans 3 frags

And 3-4 boss strike / nano units

[fair lion]

Then it'll always be the same isnt it?

[astral mason]

Plus both players get these bans like a back and forth thing

[fair lion]

if you have it they dont they'll ban it

[astral mason]

So like 16 total units will be banned at the highest level

[fair lion]

if both have it then that's all you gonna see

[astral mason]

I mean the number is arbitrary

[fair lion]

nothing changes

[astral mason]

I just used a random number to help visualize

[astral mason]

If both have it then it’s a fair fight

[fair lion]

yea then that's all that's going to be there

it's just whoever got more of the un banned OP unit or with higher level

Bans is to force interactions, but in BN it'd just be the interaction of dps scaling

[astral mason]

I mean it’s still more fair than having none of what I suggested at all

[fair lion]

I think a limited roster works better than giving bans

for each season maybe

[astral mason]

Isn’t that just a different flavor of what I’m suggesting but with less individual freedom

[fair lion]

so the devs can curate interactions instead of having repeated spam units

[astral mason]

What does it matter if the devs ban 20 units or if the players do

[fair lion]

"given the chance the player will always optimise the fun out of the game"

[astral mason]

But the devs are gonna ban the op units too

[fair lion]

if they feels like it's necessary for what they intended

maybe they'll let in the AS ranged fragments but also a stun unit for example

[astral mason]

I mean I guess it comes down to who you think knows the game better the hyper competitive players or the devs

To decide the bans

[fair lion]

maybe limited roster and draft, like something clash royale have

or with special field effects

[astral mason]

Idk I’m fine with anything but a uncontrolled PvP mode

I mean I’m P2W so I’ll be fine

But

🤷‍♂️

[desert frost]

Or we do the obvious choice that prevents anyone being upset and just restrict units to certain pvp tiers pokemon style

That way the cheesers can spam op units if they want on an anything goes tier, and below that are multiple tiers where everyone can breathe easy and use whatever units or below a tier permits. If it becomes too strong for a tier or too weak it can always move up or down a tier

[astral mason]

But which tier gets the best rewards

[jade grail]

No tiers get any reward (specific to the tier system), because it's basically a matchmaking system rather than a loot/performance ranking system.

Think of it as more of a premade set of ban lists. If you pick the "weak units only" list, then you'll only match with other players who picked that list.
That way people who want to play oops-all-AS-frags can do that. Against other people who want to do that. They won't need to match dodge until they find a fellow powerhouse.

In theory the PvP unit value system should do this, but that thing barely works. R6 trooper = R4 battle raptor. R6 veteran ~= R4 heavier tank.
If they rework those values to actually reflect performance, then they can do PvP point value based brackets instead. Which would likely be healthier. That's a lot of work though.

[desert frost]

Problem is the point system is easy to abuse even if adjusted. Would be cleanest to just have every unit assigned roughly to a pvp tier and as new content is added the community can have input on which tier each goes into

From there then they can use in game analytics as well as community feedback to move units up or down tiers

[bleak flicker]

Figuring out the PvP system will be one of the harder decisions for the devs to make. Maybe the devs could do set units at different tiers that both players get and you’d have to figure out the best strategy.

(Extremely hypothetical example) So for the lowest tier both players get 2 gunners, 1 ranger, 1 bazooka squad, and 3 mini tanks. Now players will be the chance to potentially use units they normally wouldn’t use and it wouldn’t be the players who know how best to cheat the point system or spend the most money.

[fair lion]

Imagine getting uptiered in Warthunder and then Battle Nation 😂

[uneven nexus]

the first thing someone is going to do in the current meta is pick Pelicans and ban any anti air, lmao

seriously, I could pick Pelicans and ban demos, zero shot of losses in the current meta

endgame is going to be banning the same meta promos, then using the next list of meta units as Trypticon mentioned

[random thicket]

Ban every freeze unit and pray LSW is unbanned

[uneven nexus]

can't wait for someone to ban demos and go all B10 boars

[random thicket]

[uneven nexus]

just ban your units counter and pray your unit isn't banned

[astral mason]

if someone bans freeze wouldnt that tell you to ban LSW?

like thats the whole rock paper scissors concept

[astral mason]

same with this if someone is banning all anti air

[coarse jay]

A lot of anti-air might not register to someone as anti-air though

[astral mason]

then you lose and learn

thats like a mistake you make once

[coarse jay]

And lose again because you banned the wrong units

[uneven nexus]

This method allows you to get REAL cheeky wins on people based on hyper specific unit picks and bans

far less to do with actual decisions in game

the match will often be decided purely by the banned unit lists

[astral mason]

lose until you win thats like the concept of anything involving skill and game sense

[coarse jay]

Except in this case it’s decided by ban list, not gameplay

[astral mason]

yeah you get tricked once like how in chess you theres like gambits where you lose in like 4 moves

and then you never lose like that again

[astral mason]

the ban list would become part of the skill

you would get real confortable with knowing what to ban and whos trying to counter ban for what real quick

[coarse jay]

Realistically there just isn’t a way to make the ban list large enough to matter, but small enough to not be a potential auto win

[jagged orbit]

Bans in a game where there's like 6 units that'll see regular use, in a game with exclusively casual matchmaking, is wild lmao.

[astral mason]

thats assuming the game rolls out all 280 units before they roll out pvp

as well

[random thicket]

AA turret becomes meta after BS2 releases 3 more planes

[jagged orbit]

This is more of like, a MOBA/Hero shooter thing. BN's a diff game entirely

[random thicket]

Ban chucker, demo, treb and watch the opponent suffer vs 3 BS2 planes, mav, dirigible, snake, and peli

[astral mason]

why would the opponet lack a brain to counter ban for those bans

[coarse jay]

Yeah ban lists in a game with a lot of redundancy isn’t going to work or be effective

[random thicket]

3 bans

[astral mason]

per person

[random thicket]

Okay

[astral mason]

going in back and forth order

[random thicket]

I ban chucker, treb, demo

Which of my 7 planes are you banning

[astral mason]

lol ill use planes to counter planes

[uneven nexus]

just turns out you were baiting him to not ban AS frags

[random thicket]

[uneven nexus]

wasted all his bans

[astral mason]

part of the mind trick

[astral mason]

it would work rn no?

[young pendant]

pvp opponent bans AA turret, firedrake, and troopers
mind game level 100

[random thicket]

[uneven nexus]

I think the only one confused here is Liam

no mind trick necessary

[astral mason]

lol ok buddy

whatever you say

[random thicket]

“Lost to random bans how bad are you ”

[astral mason]

also just stat track them to see what units they use the most

and target ban them

once that api goes through

lol like every problem with my system is only made worse in the default system

"what if i just use this unit"

you can use it everytime without bans 💀

[uneven nexus]

if a unit is always used, just bring the counter unit

[astral mason]

thats why old pvp was hot ass

[uneven nexus]

the old PvP was ass because the last few promos were busted and we had no variety

[astral mason]

you know damn well that some promo units had little to no counters and also benefit whales like us the most

which is what most f2P players would be banning

[astral mason]

perhaps banning the busted ones would force variety

[uneven nexus]

banning the 8 most used units, the next 8 become "busted"

congrats

we're now back at the beginning

what did we hope to accomplish?

[astral mason]

the 8-16th ranked ones arent as busted as the 1-7th ranked ones

what kind of argument is that

[random thicket]

Bans will solve that, you’d only need to ban
LSW
LR
LM
Nomad
Samurai
Blood Ninja
Mech arty
Mech tank
Mech trooper
PArty
Grav tank
B10
B10C
Gunship
Snake
Only 15 bans needed dw!

[young pendant]

pvp always had some oddball formations thanks to unit values
there were a few with excessively low value for their effectiveness

[astral mason]

yeah for top level players let them each ban 10 units

for like level 10-15 players let them ban like 2

and just scale up bans as you get more units

[uneven nexus]

why not just adjust your unit values and not play against the high point promos?

[astral mason]

because even nano units are much better than F2P

[coarse jay]

3x the broken units pvp point value

[astral mason]

and you know whales are gonna cry when they weigh nano units in a fair way

because they want the advantage

[uneven nexus]

there is always going to be a meta formation no matter how many units you can

[random thicket]

@uneven nexus
As a spender with 10 bans vs F2P I will ban
PArty
Phalanx
Ranged frag
Melee frag
Mauler
RSW
Plasma trooper
Treb
B10
B10C
Time to play plasma tanks vs supers and LCTs

[astral mason]

are you forgetting they get 10 bans too?

or

[random thicket]

I have all these
LSW
LR
LM
Nomad
Samurai
Blood Ninja
Mech arty
Mech tank
Mech trooper
PArty
Grav tank
B10
B10C
Gunship
Snake
Only 15 bans needed dw!

[uneven nexus]

not going to matter at all, the match is functionally over

[astral mason]

no you dont lmao

theyre not in the game

pvp is coming way before all that

that is such cope

[uneven nexus]

that list is pretty much everything a F2P can use

might as well have ended the match

[random thicket]

Even rn with bans you’d just ban frags and F2P would be stuck running like lightning trooper

HCT vs PK

[uneven nexus]

the ban system hurts F2P with limited options WAY more

nano players have twice the units

[astral mason]

lol if the whale bans the f2p options and the f2p bans the whale options

[random thicket]

Even stuff like Guerrilla is probably better than anything F2P can use after bans

[astral mason]

then theyre both using mini tanks

[uneven nexus]

you can't ban the P2W, there are way too many

and they could use the F2P options

[random thicket]

Tfw one side has 10 available units and the other side has 3

Both mini tanks btw

Yo Spartan wanna do a ban mock test rn

[uneven nexus]

the P2W side will have meta P2W banned and use the best F2P, the F2P will have F2P banned and use nothing

[random thicket]

You can do P2W side I’ll do F2P

Level 49

[uneven nexus]

this will go great...

[astral mason]

not really

[uneven nexus]

[random thicket]

Lets try, you play from P2W side I’ll try from F2P

Ban: Demoman

3 bans each, universal bans

[astral mason]

the f2p bans megas supers vets, the whale bans heaviers and walls which strong tank is left

[uneven nexus]

Ban: chucker
Ban: Turtle shellers
Ban: AA turret

[random thicket]

HCT

[random thicket]

Gg lmao

No aa left and can’t ban 7 aircraft

[uneven nexus]

I guess I'll win

good match

[astral mason]

also you're purposely ignoring the point weight value part of the suggestion

[coarse jay]

10 aircraft, Hunters are air

[inner oasis]

are we really roleplaying unit bans rn?

[random thicket]

Time to try lightning troopers vs pelicans

[random thicket]

Oh wait you’re right

[astral mason]

lol ur acting like F2P players dont have air units????

like what?

[uneven nexus]

they don't have anti air

almost at all

like 3 AA units

[random thicket]

I wonder if F2P can even outban P2W aa

[uneven nexus]

the answer is no

[astral mason]

ur assuming every unit is in the game when ur talking about ur arguement

[uneven nexus]

in case you're curious

[random thicket]

Vet, demo, lightning tank

Rip still more

[astral mason]

but ur assuming the current units when its in favor of ur arguement?

make up ur mind

lmao

do we have all 280 units or not

[random thicket]

Idk how F2P would ever deal with vet ngl xd

[uneven nexus]

the later we go, the worse it gets, lmao

[jagged orbit]

Oops! Missed my Dexters, Snakes and Hvy Chems! Better luck next time.

[random thicket]

GG

[astral mason]

and the ban works together with a unit weight system

[uneven nexus]

you HAVE to ban PArty, which only leaves not nearly enough promo bans

[astral mason]

which is the half of the suggestion ur missing

[random thicket]

Messed up bans I guess I’ll play better next time

[jagged orbit]

Dex Frag, great crit against infantry, should 2 tap

[astral mason]

lol you should thats a skill issue

thats like playing any other comp game and messing up bans

and then you lose

[random thicket]

Oops sorry should’ve banned all 10 broken P2W units when I have 3 bans my bad

[uneven nexus]

guess you can watch someone take 10 minutes to ban random units

The matches are literally fully decided by match start here

just ban counters and win

[astral mason]

said it does no ban if you dont ban just like any other game

[random thicket]

Also

Ban all freeze units

Game turns into LSW vs LSW

[jagged orbit]

the point is there's no conceivable way they'd ban everything I might use. Even if they chose the most prolific units, I'd still have so many options to achieve the same effect it wouldn't matter.

[astral mason]

maybe read the suggestion first buddy before you start yapping

did you pass high school 💀

[uneven nexus]

remember, you only have to ban one unit for F2P, and 4 for P2W

that's going to be an issue

[random thicket]

Doesn’t even matter for F2P or P2W, if both sides ban LSW counters both sides just run LSW

[astral mason]

and the p2w units are weighted more so you cant use as many of them as per part of the suggestion

[random thicket]

Back to the gold old pvp except no freezing LSW this time

[uneven nexus]

but you can't ban P2W freeze with 3 counters, you could ban F2P freeze with 1

[random thicket]

No I’m just saying if two P2W players fight

One side bans all 4(?) freeze units

[uneven nexus]

yeah, then it's LSW and mech units vs LSW and mech units

[random thicket]

Both sides go “oh well LSW has no counters” and game turns into 3 LSW vs 3 LSW

Each match takes 20 minutes because LSW does negative damage to LSW

[uneven nexus]

wow, this is SO much better than the old system

[astral mason]

bro thinks the lsw is getting added back in the game

[uneven nexus]

[uneven nexus]

they already ARE in the game, you just can't buy them yet

[astral mason]

bro thinks they're adding all the op units back in unchanged for some reason

[random thicket]

Doesn’t even have to be LSW is the funniest part

[uneven nexus]

you've seen the Wihvur LSWs

[astral mason]

because they dont want you to have them yet? until they change them?

[random thicket]

Any strong unit probably has like 3 ish counters? Just ban those and both sides become mirror matches

PArty vs PArty incoming

Or frag vs frag

[uneven nexus]

of course not, just pick the mech units, area units, other busted promos, etc.

[random thicket]

Or Phalanx vs Phalanx

[astral mason]

bro thinks they're getting phalanx before pvp

even though they said the concept of pvp is coming in Feb

somehow

one way or another

[uneven nexus]

we're getting AS frags before PvP, barely changes anything

same issue

[astral mason]

they think they're getting every promo in the game before feb

[uneven nexus]

you'll ALWAYS ban AS frags

[random thicket]

Melee frag and ranged frag mirrors are so much better than phalanx mirrors

[astral mason]

but are YOU getting As frags before feb

[uneven nexus]

you'll never know when you always ban them like everyone else

[random thicket]

Doesn’t even have to be broken units

Heck even vet mirrors would be awful to play

Who dodges more wins

[astral mason]

then its fair

[random thicket]

Just ban high offense stuff and gg, vet mirror incoming

[astral mason]

also ignoring the rank system i suggested where people that win more go against people that win more

[uneven nexus]

"high offense" just ends up being AS frags

[astral mason]

unless ur gonna be losing against F2P players the whole time

which you might who knows

[random thicket]

AS frag and I think Warper mentioned dexters?

[uneven nexus]

which forces the same predictatable formations you hate

[astral mason]

no because of the banning counter play and mind tricks

[uneven nexus]

skill based match making is EXACTLY what kills variety

[astral mason]

says the guy that just wants to win against noobs all day

[random thicket]

Nah that I disagree with, SBMM is okay if the game is extremely varied and balanced

Which BN isn’t able to be xd

[astral mason]

i mean noob stomping is fun until it gets boring

[uneven nexus]

in BN, it would force the promos even harder than before

[random thicket]

Oh 100%

[uneven nexus]

opposite of what he wants

[astral mason]

the promos that arent in the game

the ghost promos

[random thicket]

I’m saying SBMM isn’t always bad, it’s just hard to get right and requires specific games

[uneven nexus]

didn't you want to talk about endgame earlier?

[astral mason]

when win elo goes up

[uneven nexus]

you complained when Hikari mentioned current units

[astral mason]

when lose elo go down

[random thicket]

Pokemon Smogon uses SBMM and works great for example, but Pokemon has so much diversity it works

[astral mason]

get more gold and rewards at higher elo

and get a cool pfp or something

[uneven nexus]

yeah, SBMM only works in a balanced game, which BN isn't

[jagged orbit]

So, the rich get richer

[uneven nexus]

not even close

[random thicket]

Doesn’t have to be balanced

Just needs to have a ton of depth

[astral mason]

i mean yeah they can always just spend more money

[random thicket]

Pokemon is not exactly balanced but has variety since there’s so much you can do

[astral mason]

unless pvp is only for cosmetics like decos and pfps

[uneven nexus]

SBMM is going to end with LSW spammers as "high skill"

[astral mason]

which could work too

[jagged orbit]

I don’t think the guy foreclosing their house can afford to buy more promos, man

[astral mason]

so ban it

[random thicket]

Tbh idk how you’d even make elos in BN unless you go the smogon route

[astral mason]

i mean 300 bucks gets you like 70ish promo units

[random thicket]

Since LSW would be relegated to “ubers” and you could play in “OU” where LSW doesn’t exist

[astral mason]

most adults can afford that

[random thicket]

Although BN “Ubers” would just be promo spam

[jagged orbit]

Ubers and it’s all Leg. Animals & Mech Vehicles

[uneven nexus]

yeah, because locking people out of PvP until 300 bucks spending would be healthy...

[astral mason]

lol what?

[uneven nexus]

"most adults can afford that"

[astral mason]

this guy said hes forclosing his house for units

when its like 300 bucks

a house is like

300k

[random thicket]

At least they’re regulated a little bit xd

[astral mason]

on the low end

[uneven nexus]

it's hyperbolic, but the ban system functionally hits F2P way harder

while P2W can buy more options, which means you can't ban everything

I functionally get twice the bans against a F2P they get against me

[random thicket]

I’m still trying to think of how two P2W players fighting wouldn’t just be a mirror match

[uneven nexus]

it would be mirror matches

that's exactly how it would go

[random thicket]

Yeahhhh

I feel like this is why games like Pokemon don’t have bans 😅

[astral mason]

no when all 3 things i suggested are used together the ban system with the unit weight with SBMM

so you might be able to use 3 super tanks but its the same weight as like 4-5 heaviers

[jagged orbit]

I mean I'd like to see what F2Ps do when I ban heavier tanks

[random thicket]

PK

[jagged orbit]

PK

[astral mason]

and now they can use like 6-7 pks

while you have 3 supers

because of the weight class feature

[random thicket]

My guy PKs can’t even kill

[astral mason]

its an example?

[random thicket]

You can literally just kill everything else, PKs can’t even do more than 1 damage to units below 10% HP

[astral mason]

you can use any f2p units in greater numbers than p2w units

because of the weight class

[random thicket]

Inb4 Turtlesheller vs HCT

Pretty balanced matchup

[jagged orbit]

Dexter frag spam sleeper meta, Anti Infantry and armor bypass while being F2P, and nobody would care to ban it.

[astral mason]

if you load in a game with the intention of using all p2w units ur gonna be using like 4-5 units against like 13 f2p units

check this out

[random thicket]

If I was against a F2P I’d 100% ban dexters

At least at current level

[jagged orbit]

it's deadass their only real answer to vets I think

[random thicket]

Yeah

Ranged frag and dexter bans

[jagged orbit]

and that's if they have it in the first place

[random thicket]

Is there another vet answer even?

[astral mason]

lol if you use all vets then ur gonna have like 3 vets against a full roster

[river torrent]

If they have sin you are kinda unlucky then but they are rare

[mortal ibex]

Hahaha you hadn't prepared for my SINISTER Frag, you fool!

[astral mason]

what about unicorn trooper

[river torrent]

PM maybe but idk the actual offense

[random thicket]

Bro if someone shows up with 3 sins after I ban dex I’m gonna crash out lmao

[random thicket]

I mean F2P

[jagged orbit]

not reaaaalllly?? Dirigible has good anti infantry but Dirigible doesn't do damage, so much as.. aggressively suggest they take 130-290 depending on if it hit in the first place

[mortal ibex]

I have 0 Dex's and 1 Sinister lmao

[river torrent]

But F2P no way

[astral mason]

what about frontier minuteman

[random thicket]

There’s plenty of P2W answers including vet mirror xd

[random thicket]

2 nades will probably kill a dirigible too

[astral mason]

what about hunter with poision arrow

[uneven nexus]

you're joking, right?

[astral mason]

no

lowest rating in the game

but now you can spam them

like 3 waves of hunters with poision arrow

against like 3 vets

[inner oasis]

please tell me I can finally use my bazooka squads

[uneven nexus]

I'll use 4 HCTs and clear 5 waves of hunters without losing any armor

[random thicket]

54 offense go brrrrr

[astral mason]

cant

weight class overflow

you can use 1

HCT

[random thicket]

Wdym 4 you only need 1

[snow olive]

are my r5 wimps any good?

[random thicket]

Yes

They solo vets

[astral mason]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1443217957432856587/1461569168209084466/Purrface_back_attack.gif?ex=696b07dc&is=6969b65c&hm=2be1e2ef756e27fea4c26aa94289e4e3d038ab1036bcfba17dfe47ed0deaf356& what about my cat

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meow-big-lips-gif-13233291

[obtuse wolf]

Another suggestion, instead of banning 3 units per player, why don’t we just ban pvp mode altogether

[astral mason]

https://tenor.com/view/crash-out-crashing-out-crash-cat-cat-meme-gif-3797735486230472207