this may also open up options for AS fights with less requirements that the community needs sooner rather than later. Im glad I have 4 snakes and a dozen vets, but not everyone can do it without astronomical luck f2p no snake no melee frag no boar
#FrostBite, Cryo Trooper, Elemental Trooper, and all other freeze base attacks should be cold damage.
pseudo zenith
uneven olive
The ancient sentinel now dies in 17 shots from an elemental trooper’s freezing shots if this change were to happen. You cannot implement this change without severely increasing the cold damage resistance of the AS to line up close with it’s other resistances.
this change also doesn’t help F2p’s the way you think. Because lets say the cryo trooper (the only non-nano vanilla unit with freeze in the game) suddenly dealt cold damage AND the AS’s cold resistance was untouched. A brute force cryo trooper strategy still wouldn’t work.
All this change does is help freezers deal a bit of extra damage against units who don’t typically have cold resistance.
But that doesn’t really matter anyway in the grand scheme of things because the unit inflicting freeze doesn’t really need to deal damage in the first place, it just needs to modify the resistances. And then your main damage dealing unit will OTK or 2TK the frozen unit anyway.
TL:DR this change doesn’t do much, if anything, in the grand scheme of things other than it ‘making sense’.
pseudo zenith
I wouldnt imagine cryo trooper would be enough
it would just be another avenue of balancing adjustments they can make
gleaming portal
Imo making it make sense is worthwhile in itself. Low priority of course, but rolling it into a large scale balance pass would be fine.
They should look at a few other outliers while they're at it. Electricity (the two lightning infantry units), bullets (vets and arctic doing explosive), lasers (this might just be the one promo unit being weird), and plasma (trooper does piercing with beam, and explosive with pulse) are all inconsistent in what kind of damage they do.
dusk prawn
I would imagine AS getting a 50% cold resist or better if this is to happen
pseudo zenith
I said it before it would take tremendous effort to rebalance everything, making this system and getting AS to die in 17 turns wasnt the idea, it is a note to the unused, basically untouched damage type that for some reason a good portion of units after this was introduced has, purely for 1 unit
dusk prawn
It lets ET and Cryo do work regardless, so the only loser in Lboar, but I don’t care cause that thing looks ugly anyway
pseudo zenith
low priority, but they are confirming to rebalance things, this damage type I think would be fair for them to slot in, years down the line to fix
dusk prawn
Imo, it’s either they give a few cryo troops the cold damage type so they are more powerful, or remove it altogether
uneven olive
more powerful in what way
pseudo zenith
i dont think theyre that much more usable if they got that right?
dusk prawn
More powerful vs the AS, specifically
uneven olive
dusk prawn
And some units with good fire res
pseudo zenith
Imo making it make sense is worthwhile in itself. Low priority of course, but ro...
it is a cluster fk, alot of condensing of different types, and its hard to say for sure what the right way to do it is
uneven olive
coping that hard that cryos with cold damage will be a significant damage dealer against AS is like begging your radio tech to not die by turn 7
pseudo zenith
BUT COLD DAMAGE EXISTS AND MY NOMAD ELEMENTAL ROVER DOESNT HAVE IT AND I MUST SPEAK FOR MY IDOL it is important to give it to more than 1 unit imo
gleaming portal
tbf if it's actually super low impact, then the change is harmless.
dusk prawn
I’m saying cryo troops, so that includes ET
uneven olive
this change as it stands only benefits p2w players even more
dusk prawn
Idk if 164 cold damage per shot changes anything, but you do you
uneven olive
no ball knowledge
pseudo zenith
that is true, mainly because theres only 2 f2p potential cold units
gleaming portal
Didn't you just establish that it won't do anything notable? P2W can't benefit if it doesn't do anything of note.
dusk prawn
F2Ps can get 2-3 and brute force AS easily too, they don’t magically have 0 nanos
uneven olive
against AS, if resistances don’t change against cold, then yes this change is completely pro-p2w
pseudo zenith
Didn't you just establish that it won't do anything notable? P2W can't benefit i...
probably not directed at me but, iff they kept it as a strict upgrade no changes to current resistances or damage numbers, yes it would
gleaming portal
Oh yeah bosses will likely get patched. Bosses being special is a given.
dusk prawn
Yeah if AS gets like 40-50% res to cold, then the change is more or less cosmetic except for making lboar a worse pick on AS
Completely fine with me
gleaming portal
probably not directed at me but, iff they kept it as a strict upgrade no changes...
Was meant to be for Tryp.
Bosses aside, I don't know enough to debate its impact. Just taking his word on how anything you freeze will get one shot on the next turn anyways, thus the freezer doing slightly more damage doesn't change much.
-# again, bosses being exceptions that'll get buffed res values
dusk prawn
ET will feel a lot better vs sth like Salamander but outside of these edge cases yeah it’s not much
pseudo zenith
after making this thread I realized theres only 8 :<
more Z2 scrapped or mismanaged ideas :<
dusk prawn
I don think there’s that much room to explore with freeze too
And they completely walled themselves in with Nomad
pseudo zenith
wdym?
dusk prawn
Nomad is so good it’s hard to design a freeze unit worth using over it
pseudo zenith
there isnt a freeze unit that can hit anywhere they want on the board
thats an easy fix, but that could be a monkey paw suggestion with how ridiculous that is
uneven olive
there isnt a freeze unit that can hit anywhere they want on the board
blood ninja…
gleaming portal
Ah yes, just make it indirect.
-# weird how Z2 didn't do that
-# edit: nvm
pseudo zenith
oop
uneven olive
Legendary boar technically too. Apex stalker is contact (back)
uneven olive
There is space for more freeze units that revolve around line of fire
pseudo zenith
yeah I was thinking about the boar but only by technicality
dusk prawn
That’s true, maybe even artilleries that lob multiple freezing rounds but with reduced DOT chance
pseudo zenith
theres also the option of adding like 2 100% tiles, also broken but, there are ways to introduce variety
dusk prawn
Frost dragon
pseudo zenith
....does that animal exist in lore?
gleaming portal
Mechanical frost dragon then
*Ancient frost dragon. Unsealed from a vault. Like the kraken (allegedly).
pseudo zenith
fair, we already have the kraken
cerulean oak
knowing BN it'll just be a big refrigerator
pseudo zenith
imma delete the thread in a bit, the scope of the suggestions is too far fetched into the future
gleaming portal
Eh. They did mention a balance pass during PvP's release. Scope's unknown, but it wouldn't be out of the question for a few damage type tweaks to happen during it.
pseudo zenith
definitely not that
i would imagine, if its within a year, could be something as simple as tweaking some of the promo units or early to midgame units
pseudo zenith
Eh. They did mention a balance pass during PvP's release. Scope's unknown, but i...
I didnt know they said they'd do a balance patch for a pvp release, that gives me hope thx
gleaming portal
Let me see if I can find the screenshot. It was an offhand comment from alex.
pseudo zenith
is it too much to ask for TF2 scout to have a stun on the bat attack
gleaming portal
I didnt know they said they'd do a balance patch for a pvp release, that gives m...
pseudo zenith
