（Nerf）Lower the score requirement for Boss Strike, or increase the points awarded per attack.

[wary void]

Because it was too hard

[cobalt minnow]

Yeah, if you’ve bothered to read the conversation you’d know lmao

[desert jay]

I'm just saying it should be easy

[worthy ridge]

I don’t blame him, it’s 1,000 messages now xd

[void haven]

I genuinely thought this was a joke

[brisk marsh]

define casual

[cobalt minnow]

Yaaaaaas!!!

[desert jay]

and most of the people saying it should be hard are top players

[cobalt minnow]

Let’s gooooo

Reached my goal

[sacred totem]

1000 messages

[cobalt minnow]

Hella

[lean idol]

LFG🔥

[worthy ridge]

I think the issue is many casuals think it’s too hard, and many top players think it’s too easy

Keyword being thinks

[wary void]

I mean we don’t know how hard reaching the points is gonna be, we can make guesses but we don’t know what people outside the major guilds are bringing army wise

[desert jay]

someone who logs in regularly and checks the game a few times per week but doesn't necesarily amass a big army or train units past r4

[sacred totem]

Its honestly perfect as is as long as they dont go the dorian route again

[worthy ridge]

Genuinely we have no clue if it’s too easy or too hard for casuals

Everything here is speculative

[desert jay]

yeah

[cobalt minnow]

I just like arguing with people lol

It’s fun

[void haven]

Dorian’s chill with enough AS frags, and we’ll have access to that pretty soon
-# its all about the odds after that

[wary void]

The major guilds are passing out full blown threat analysis of incoming units and discussing strategies as to what unit to be mass produced

[cobalt minnow]

Can we get to 1.5k?

[void haven]

Bet

[brisk marsh]

you're going to have issues then unless you get more active during the BS or are in a decent guild

[desert jay]

the issue is that people that don't grind much have really weak accounts so even if they tried they wouldn't be able to score enough in bs

[wary void]

Casual players might lose their entire army after 3 clears

[desert jay]

it's not just "just play 4 hours lol"

[desert jay]

cause weaker players can't grind that in 4 hours

or maybe even at all

[cobalt minnow]

Lowkey almost lost my entire army to a story mission because my super tanks kept whiffing for 18 damage

[brisk marsh]

although you probably shouldn't be concerned about the AS since you probably can't beat most bosses at that point

[worthy ridge]

I think it can be fine to expect a bit more time for people with weaker accounts, since BS should be a bit of a challenge at least

[void haven]

I’d consider that person a bit less than casual, more like “I check BN like 5 minutes every month”

[worthy ridge]

Anything beyond like 4-5h is probably too much though

[wary void]

I mean BS is always gonna be a rise and grind event

So it’s fine if without preparation people struggle

It’s just a matter of degree

[brisk marsh]

that's barely playing

[sacred totem]

Casuals should be people that dont grind much but are at least active

[desert jay]

problem is that if you only have 5 tanks (just enough for a frontline) and not optimal dps you're screwed

[cobalt minnow]

That’s some hyperbole

[soft pelican]

I think the main issue is that Boss Strike is also very much endgame content. While there is balance for lower level players it’s supposed to be a Boss Strike

[desert jay]

even if you can clear 5 waves you're stuck for a few hours waiting for repairs before you can try again

and casuals can't exactly fall back to wimp spam

[brisk marsh]

you can take out some weaker units and still get points

[soft pelican]

Missing out on the current T10 reward is also not supposed to be the issue it was in the OG as Madrona has pledged to not do the FOMO thing anymore

[cobalt minnow]

Allegedly

[sacred totem]

If its a 4 day strike I assume itll be 4 waves like in the OG

[soft pelican]

We’ll likely see the BC-1 Snake return this time around

[wary void]

well anyway madrona is gonna have much more in depth stats after the BS so

[desert jay]

ah yes, the r2 gunners and battle raptors will carry you

[wary void]

They’ll have a better idea of what balance is like after that

[lean idol]

And after this thread too seeing all the comments ☠️

[desert jay]

casual players don't have a big army

[worthy ridge]

-# R3 gunners are actually kinda cracked ngl

[brisk marsh]

if you're that low level they genuinly might

[void haven]

Heavy pockets though maybe…….

[sacred totem]

Time to r6 gunners

[wary void]

But yea boss strikes is always kinda gonna be a resource sink for high level players who can throw a million troops they can mass produce at the problem

That’s kinda the point

[desert jay]

yeah sure

[brisk marsh]

you can't balance boss strikes to where an hour over 4 days with no more than 2 of any unit can reach t 10

[desert jay]

tiers above 10 should be hard

[worthy ridge]

Main thing is: Does Madrona want T10 to be the “goal” or for T10 to be achievable by everyone

[wary void]

Good question

[soft pelican]

This I can agree with but it’ll also require some rebalancing to give equal value for the work

[void haven]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-thinking-gif-18107621495886085895

[brisk marsh]

tier 10 should require some level of effort

[worthy ridge]

Because those two philosophies will result in different point totals

[wary void]

The snake being the goal makes sense because it’s really useful coming up

The snake being a grind target probably doesn’t make as much sense

[desert jay]

yeah, this bs is specially important in that regard

[brisk marsh]

the main issue is that the snake is one of the few F2p units that will be useful aginst the AC

[twin orchid]

dang this thread already at 1k

[worthy ridge]

Ngl if this entire argument is that “snake is required for F2P AS” just nerf the AS xd

[wary void]

What happened when Z2 did this in their first BS is when they noticed people weren’t going as far as they thought they increased point gain by 5x

[worthy ridge]

Make snake a good but not necessary unit

[brisk marsh]

they should

[desert jay]

if AS was doable f2p at level 50 then yeah

[lean idol]

That mf should still be nerfed, lol

[soft pelican]

Again BS1 in the OG was a failure

[worthy ridge]

Tbh that’s an AS problem not a BS problem

[void haven]

Oh god please no, lvl 40 DN and Kraken was the most fun i ever had in BN reborn ever, i need something remotely close to that feeling

[desert jay]

but yeah, that's another discussion

[wary void]

Well yea it was a mess lol

[worthy ridge]

They could probably keep BS the way it is while nerfing AS and far less people would complain

[soft pelican]

With 5 snakes that will be gone instantly

[brisk marsh]

it should be possible at the next level cap

[worthy ridge]

Dw, 99% winrate with 5 R8 snakes

[void haven]

Kinda pisses me off, but it is what it is

[forest wigeon]

each time you beat the AS do it with one less snake

[gaunt vigil]

I think it should be about optics. If we keep the same BS reqs as back then without the OP stuff, it gives the optics that Madrona will make the game grindier than it was, which is not a direction that I want the game to go

[lean idol]

I don’t think that’s the issue, the main issue of this whole thread ☠️

[wary void]

I wouldn’t mind health and damage multipliers on bosses in exchange for raising the drop rates lol

That’s a good theory craft sink for high level players

[brisk marsh]

can the snake even be used against naval ?

[worthy ridge]

A lot of people were arguing “We need T10 because snake is required for AS”

[void haven]

Nah we need to have a boss so hard, even cheesing it is still a huge obstacle

[wary void]

Pokémon masters actually does this

[desert jay]

you can definitely deploy it in naval

[forest wigeon]

level 70 AS power boost

[desert jay]

idk if it can target ships though

[forest wigeon]

triple the stats

[soft pelican]

I mean people are arguing about the fact that the snake should be given to everyone basically because of how important it is for f2p players to have a shot at killing the AS

[sacred totem]

It cant

At least its good attack

[lean idol]

No, that’s the argument many came up with that don’t agree to find a reason to shut it down, the main discussion is just about lowering point requirements. Which now I’m thinking there should be a different boss strike system overall that can appeal to everyone

[brisk marsh]

i wouldn't be that against it

[lean idol]

I mean some are but not everyone

[worthy ridge]

No a lot of Chinese players who were for the argument were arguing it

[void haven]

“The AS is immune to piercing dmg, in exchange, +10% for both frags as boss drops”

[worthy ridge]

It wasn’t really brought up by people against the argument

[sacred totem]

[soft pelican]

Time to load up on blades

[wary void]

In all for stuff like this

Even stuff like “you can only bring one unit of each type”

Or stuff like that

Just stuff that really makes you look into your roster for unlikely carries

Trying to optimize reward vs consistency is fun

But that’s a different suggestion

[void haven]

Finally, ✨ ✨ its your time to shine

[lean idol]

It was though, go back and many people just say people want handouts. Especially with this strike because they want it for the AS. Overall, I guess it doesn’t matter, I don’t think the main argument around strikes should be focused around whether we can beat the AS or not. This unit does help with those odds though

[void haven]

“For this week, you can apprehend the AS for +5% increase for boss drops”

[wary void]

I mean ideally there’s other events that aren’t late game grindfests like BS is meant to be

Just BS is the first one madrona is implementing that wasn’t undead

[lean idol]

I just want my diamond tank at this point 🫩

[worthy ridge]

There were two groups arguing for the suggestion, 1 group that said you need T10 (and T12 I think was mentioned) for AS so they should be easier, and a 2nd group that wants the points lowered because it’s too hard for casuals

[wary void]

Boss strike, by design, isn’t ever going to really appeal to new players

It’s a grind fest through and through

[sacred totem]

True

Boss strikes should be something catered to mid/endgame players

[wary void]

Strategies are built around fighting while taking losses until getting completely wiped, then finding the optimal combination to spam

[void haven]

-# 1136 messages guys, good stuff

[sacred totem]

Both which contain casual players

[wary void]

Like that’s fun for end game players because it’s refreshing to use different units and strategies

Not so much to players who have exactly one army

[wild timber]

Is this whole thread just "Skill issue"

[wary void]

There’s other events that are more geared to casual players

Well at least in theory

lol

[void haven]

The subject somewhat diverged, but in one perspective, you’re right, just one big fat “skill issue”

[brisk marsh]

this man's got it

[wild timber]

I mean I only just now got here

[wary void]

It’s about 33% skill issue, 33% complaints about the AS, and 33% genuine concerns about boss strike’s format

[void haven]

I though it was a joke a first, there’s a good chunk of people that genuinely want BS point requirements to be easier

[soft pelican]

Imagine Arena Event instead

Would’ve been a blood bath

[wary void]

Oh yea that would be great

[void haven]

See that thing, was an absolute mess

[wary void]

They’d be utterly steamrolled lol

[wild timber]

The fact that some guys back in the day did it solo proves to me that, unless they significantly changed how the numbers work, what we've got is fine.

Heck, they even made guilds required

[void haven]

https://tenor.com/view/hand-on-shoulder-akakichi-no-eleven-everything-will-be-ok-my-brother-in-christ-we're-gonna-beat-you-gif-16692013677699419935

[soft pelican]

The OG was also riddled with exploits xD

[wary void]

Yea uh

Those often weren’t genuine

[void haven]

-# it was a sandbox back in the day

[wary void]

There were also some units that were

Uh

Completely busted

[wild timber]

Okay well with those exceptions noted: guilds big and small reached t10 more often than not

[soft pelican]

When I see a score of 10+ million points I don’t think they were a gifted player

[wary void]

Like to put it this way, the fallback strategy (and some times the default) was turret macroing 24/7

Not everyone did this

But things are definitely different nowadays going into the first BS, amazingly people are (mostly) on the same power level if you’re in a semi competitive guild

And yes that sounds absurd but comparatively lol

[wild timber]

I was under the impression that getting T10 was achievable for almost anyone with dedication, and really pushing the boundaries was what the real achievers did

[soft pelican]

Also expect top guilds to publish strategies one day

While currently under lock and key tools like these will be published eventually

[void haven]

Speaking of gifted players, i hope we get PvP record (W/L) ratios, and right next to a players ID whenever they hop on PvP

[soft pelican]

I like to throw sh*t at the wall hoping it sticks too much

[lapis hemlock]

i just think everyone even in a 10people guild can have the unit to beat AS,now boss strike is the only way to get the unit

[wary void]

Anyway once BS becomes a regular thing again and madrona adds other event types I think this’ll be less of an issue

[void haven]

Think about the content though

[wary void]

Just right now this is the first real event and it’s a grindfest

[brisk marsh]

some people here think 24 battles over 4 days is too much

[wild timber]

Kek

[wary void]

Ok that’s silly lol

I sort of understand an average player’s perspective of it, their army might be entirely wiped after a battle or two and then have to sit it out

They can’t fall back on turret spam

[brisk marsh]

24 clears to be exact

[wary void]

But if you can do 24 clears, it’s not that hard to do it

[cobalt minnow]

Pump those numbers!

[gaunt vigil]

Looking back at my childhood my days as a non comp player, the odds of a casual player being able to do one clear is... Not good

[wary void]

One thing in half expecting is a lot of casual players to just hit a wall yea

BS is definitely a decent step up in difficulty

Losses often mount

[scarlet bone]

I couldn't get t6 wimps or unlock UMGs in time so how many MGs and troopers do I train for 25 clears .............. lol

I think Madrona should have released guilds only this update and added a BS for after the new year, would have avoided a lot of the bugs and also gave people time to organise their guilds more

either way I will be sending hundreds of troopers to their demise

[cobalt minnow]

As it should be

[little bramble]

Disagree

[cobalt minnow]

Mostly just joking about the casualties of war and whatnot

Not the unit sacrifice

[cobalt minnow]

Most of the big guilds were unofficial ones that existed since the game’s rerelease.

Gotta give the little guys a chance.

[past abyss]

They’d be good if ur fighting the lvl 10-20 bracket of BS

[scarlet bone]

Yep I checked the wiki and I moved into the next bracket by 1 level

which I am totally not prepared for

assuming it is the same as OG BN ofc

[soft pelican]

-# Even then they’re not

[past abyss]

I mean like R6 ones

[cobalt minnow]

Who tf is getting R6 at level 20

[soft pelican]

[lean idol]

☠️

[cobalt minnow]

Man some of you people play this game way too much lmao

[past abyss]

Perhaps

[cobalt minnow]

I respect it

But still

[soft pelican]

Might have someone who did R6 wimps at level 12

[past abyss]

Don’t

[wild timber]

Can't

You need laurels

[soft pelican]

[cobalt minnow]

I respect time and effort sunk into anything but I don’t necessarily agree with it

[wild timber]

Hm

[worthy ridge]

It wasn’t efficient enough for BS

Got to 5.3 bars and then stopped

[soft pelican]

Are we sharing that info yeah?

[worthy ridge]

I’ve said it xd

[soft pelican]

I hoped to trick some more people into trying it to no avail

[worthy ridge]

Not like it matters anyways, it’s a 250-400 points/minute account anyways

[past abyss]

It’s not good info to keep hidden 💀

[worthy ridge]

Very few people are crazy enough to do that xd

[past abyss]

400/min ain’t bad

[soft pelican]

It’s worse than a normal account by far

[past abyss]

Yeah

[worthy ridge]

When full armies get like 1k, an alt that gets 400 is pretty bad xd

[soft pelican]

Over half as efficient

[past abyss]

But infinite uptime

[soft pelican]

For a whole lot more work

[worthy ridge]

Even wimp spam at 49 is more efficient

That’s the worst part xd

[soft pelican]

You underestimate the grind for level 12 R6 wimps

You can only do gantas’ fortress

[cobalt minnow]

💀

[worthy ridge]

Bender’s doing it by yoinking people’s encounters

[past abyss]

[worthy ridge]

Way slower but less fights

[past abyss]

Wonder how R6 sallies would go in the <40 bracket

[cobalt minnow]

Keep on pushing we’re only at 1245

[past abyss]

Trying

[soft pelican]

First level keep that is efficient is level 50 with AS frags

Though you can go to level 55 to be at the top of the bracket and also uncap some air units and get more ranks in other promo units

[past abyss]

Firemod with a range grave would’ve been fun

[soft pelican]

What is your autocorrect

First it made it “drag” and now “grave”

[past abyss]

Idk I went to a lot of drag bingo in uni

Don’t go to a lot of graves tho

[soft pelican]

Not even Snacers’ grave?

[past abyss]

Sometimes

To put flowers

[soft pelican]

I thought you needed a public restroom

[past abyss]

Nah u know those giant flowers that smell like rotting meat

That attract thousands of flies

[soft pelican]

Surprised he doesn’t do that by himself already

[simple sequoia]

With how many bones ppl had to pick with him he shouldnt smell really

[cobalt minnow]

Corpse flower?

[onyx jacinth]

holy sht this thread is still going strong

thread might outcook the upcoming BS

[grand quest]

Pre show for bs

[wary void]

imagine how bad its gonna be when the BS actually is underway lol

[cobalt minnow]

Yeah lmao

Trying to get to 1.5k comments

[humble apex]

Boss strike truly started

The demoralizing phase.

[trail raptor]

Didnt get bad at all

[wary void]

It didn’t get as bad as I thought it would yea

Only a few people were miffed about T10 reqs

[proven wave]

Also quite skewed since ppl who are invested enough to be on discord tend to be in t10+ guilds already

[runic reef]

This is why I really wish madrona sends out a feedback form to all players because the majority are being awfully silent about how they felt about the boss strike.

Was there a demographic of guilds / players that truly did put the time in but still unfairly did not get the rewards that would be appropriate to get? It’s basically unclear.

WH40k Tacticus sends out regular feedback forms on their events with a premium currency reward for completing it. And it typically asks about the player demographic (I.e how much time and/or money you spend, how you approach events (do you prepare well beforehand or just play as you go) etc.). And that helps them fine tune their events which I feel are very F2P friendly

[frigid surge]

I think we need to consider what the point of guild activities are in the first place. If all members of a guild contribute roughly the same amount of points, what was the point of making it a group activity? If we divided the number of points required by the number of members and made boss strikes a solo activity, there would be no functional difference for players in an active guild since they're grinding their fair share of points already. The guild aspect really only matters when there are players who aren't contributing their fair share, because those players are getting boosted by their guildmates. Some of those players are intentionally leeching or inactive, but there are also new/casual players who legitimately have a hard time grinding points. To me the virtue of guilds is that it allows experienced players to help out those new/casual players. Having new and old players interact is how you build tighter knit and longer lasting communities. Do boss strikes currently encourage that? I don't really think so

[wary void]

I think it helps tie together already strong guilds but yea

Newer players get the short end of the stick because they can’t meaningfully help

So there’s an incentive to kick them, which pushes them out further

[frigid surge]

Exactly. Imagine a new player trying to participate in their first boss strike. If they're not active in this discord, they're going to use the guild finder to join their first guild and probably join an open-recruitment guild of fellow new players. They won't know what they're doing and fail spectacularly. Some of them will wise up, join the discord, and try to get into a more established guild. But others will sour on the concept of boss strikes altogether. The ones who did make it into the larger community may also become discouraged if they get rejected from guilds for not having good units, or after learning that the boss strike units they missed out on are now completely unavailable for the forseeable future

For those of us who knew how the system worked beforehand, it wasn't a big deal. But for the wave of players that are completely new to battle nations, there's a lot of room for negative interactions with boss strikes

[fair pike]

Boss Strike is another example of an anti-new player thing in the game, at least as it currently stands

[wary void]

Yea I think it’s kinda fine to have a grind fest event focused on end game players, but the lack of community involvement outside of that and like, arena is kinda an issue

Arena was even worse!

[rose sedge]

lotta words in here

[cobalt minnow]

Wanted to get this thread to 1.5k comments

Oh well

[tropic ferry]

Sadly our guild of 56 is on track to not reach the T10, There are only about 10 players who got over 100K and most players, many level 49s, just dipped and barely participated, most getting around only 10-40k

Now all 56 of us are robbed of our chance to get it the snake and feel like trash, we’re a clan where just over 30 of us are all actively chatting in our discord but most of us have jobs and so on, so we aren’t making the cut and barely are scratching past tier 9, it’ll take a miracle for us to get there.

This BS has honestly not been fun for our guild, with many of us feeling cheated.
The player in our guild that has over 1 million points feels so burnt our he probably wont play till next BS and we don’t even have a single Snake to get from it.

We aren’t some super sweaty guild but it did feel pretty bad that this huge exciting event cant even get the T10 reward for a guild in the top 67th spot on the leaderboard.
Idk how many guilds there are total tho, but thats pretty sad that not even the top 100 get snakes.

[wary void]

Well there’s aren’t that many guilds yea, people not carrying their weight has always been a huge issue with BS

[tropic ferry]

There was no way of knowing before the BS

Sadge

I can only imagine how many guilds are below us, all never achieving the goal of T10 either, opening the guild finder is dozens of low level guilds that probably didnt break tier 6

[wary void]

BS by its nature tends to centralize guilds because they kinda do require lots of organization

For better or for worse

[fair pike]

there are at least 120 because someone sent that their guild was 120th

top 59 right now is a maybe for t10

[tropic ferry]

I didn’t even enjoy the BS grind and between my work days I grinded a little over 400k points

At least i got 3 mavs

Not helpful for the future update though

[wary void]

Yea returning players have been through this song and dance before so they all centralized with people who already knew the program, which does really suck for newer players or those who didn’t get the chance

you can only carry your guild mates so hard

[runic reef]

This is the side of the story I want to hear more of. I’m sorry to hear that you didn’t enjoy the bs nor get the reward you were so close to getting.

I keep bringing up WH40k Tacticus because it has a lot of game elements that seem very fair to me. One gameplay element is how they tackle guild events. The reward that you get as a guild is a universal currency that can be used to purchase various items (like resources or even character shards). It doesn’t expire and the shop rotates between characters on a cycle every few months.

And that might be an avenue for the devs to explore when it comes to boss strikes. Guilds that aren’t able to get tier 10 can still salvage some unique currency that can be saved up to use for future purchases on units they weren’t able to get the first time.

[fair pike]

Turning it into a shop rather than a track would also remove the problem

[wary void]

They were actually playing around with this idea iirc

Z2

They were thinking of adding a guild store

[brisk marsh]

Could work, maybe we could even buy rewards from past seasons, the current season rewardz would be cheaper though

Someone ought to make a seperzte suggestion for the store

[fair pike]

planning on it once BS is over

[humble wing]

I didn't realize this was being discussed here when I just made [my post lmao](#1452445228312301801 message). I had been sitting on it before posting cuz I wasn't sure how to tie it into the Boss Strike since it's been roughly a decade since I've been in one.

[frigid surge]

The guild store is a good idea. I think it would make the most sense if currency was awarded based on personal performance, though. That way it acts as insurance for players that outperformed the rest of their guild. When a boss strike ends, players could have their point contribution converted to guild currency. The shop should be priced based on how many points it would take each member to get the guild to T10; a player that far exceeded that threshold should receive enough currency to buy the T10 unit on their own, or several duplicates of the tier 3 or 7 units. Hopefully that would cut down the frustration of guildmates not contributing their fair share. The only issue I see is that this would effectively give everyone already in a T10+ guild an extra copy of the T10 prize. Which might not be an issue at all depending on how much you think those units are worth

A player in a guild that just barely reached T10 would effectively double their T10 reward. Whereas a player in one of the top guilds is just adding another duplicate to the pile

[cobalt minnow]

The problem with that is that it excludes new players

While guild members aught to be contributing their share, exclusively confining your score to guild points seems like a wealth begets wealth kinda situation.

Those who already can score high get better rewards to score higher while those without much can hardly get their feet off of the ground.

If it is evenly distributed among the guild that helps those who are behind catch up immensely.

All for the guild store tho

Love that idea

[frigid surge]

true, new players would still get the short end of the stick. But evenly distributing currency to all members regardless of contribution poses its own problems. Let's say a casual guild gets to T9. Despite a minority of its players scoring most of the points, all of its members receive an equal amount of guild shop currency. If the amount is enough to buy the T10 unit, then we should have just increased their point multiplier in the first place so they could reach T10 naturally. If it's not enough to buy the T10 unit, the high scorers still feel shafted and we're back where we started

One particular situation we should avoid is players giving up because they see that the rest of their guild is falling behind. Once the BS starts you're stuck with your guild and if the others aren't on pace to reach the next milestone, it's easy for players to become discouraged and give up even if they would otherwise score much higher. I think that there should be some form of individual reward to ensure those players keep participating

[cobalt minnow]

I suppose, maybe, idk.

[solemn lotus]

This is so true and pretty similar to our guild situation.

First, I think Madrona nailed the encounter difficulty, atleast in my bracket. I could find one enemy formation, that could be farmed 4/5 times without losses and only required r1/r2 units (F2P), which is not too much to ask for imo.

I think the general balancing would have been fine if it was the third BS or so. But for all the people who just got into a guild shortly before the BS, when they dropped, there was no way to know how much people would be able to do, get them prepared in this short time. And if you got a few lower levels in the guild, who get maybe a third of the BP if they finish all 4 waves, they can't really get the required 225k or so. Also most guilds are far from lvl 80.

And even though my guild was in the 80s not 60s, I think top 100 guilds should be able to get T10. We had maybe 9h to spare after T9 and as one of the heavily contributing members it did feel a bit iffy, that this is not the case.

[solemn lotus]

And that is so real. If you see people in your level bracket scoring less than one full cleared wave, you do ask yourself why you are doing the work. You can carry for one or two, maybe three or four if you really put in the hours, but not for all.

[shadow mountain]

Usually I am the one that wants nerfs to grinding, and nerfs to enemy types which I got flamed by lots of people and called a trolled plus got a thread shut down for not wanting R6+ and increasing the level cap, but I disagree here. With the instant reset auto battler all you need to do is mass production of R6 wimps, chuckers for anti air, and soldiers. Most of my losses were wimps, soldiers and turrets. I only had R2 HCTs, and I had no vials other than the ones they gave you since I used them all out trying to unlock the wimp attacks. It's easy.

[grand quest]

Having hct should disqualify you for having a stake in this.

[shadow mountain]

Mine kept dying...

Plus I only had like 5.

[solemn lotus]

Just need r6 wimps is impossible for many, so early after introducing guilds.

[grand quest]

I have dragoons and they are a worse hct

[solemn lotus]

Plus the difficulty to get vials at the moment.

[shadow mountain]

I got mine from rank 5.2 to rank 6 in 6 hours with the auto battle system/instant reset.

[solemn lotus]

Nice for you. Mine are r5 used the BS for farming, but until I can go to bigfoot county, it is kinda hard to grind. And many people are not at max level yet, me included. And it was luckily possible to contribute even so (>600k BP).

But thats not the point. The point is, with so little time to prepare, reuirements should have been nerfed 😉

[shadow mountain]

They shouldn't, BS forces you to take the game seriously are the only ways a PVE end-game player can get challenged.

[solemn lotus]

Yes, but this was the first. nuff said.

[grand quest]

The first bs is a super special case tho

Its not a good representation for the other bs

We are getting

[shadow mountain]

Also my guild had atleast 10 people who weren't LV 49, and many were below LV 30. We still got 21.

[solemn lotus]

.

[shadow mountain]

rank 21*

[fair pike]

I’d like the next one to have 1 less day, but 60-65% of the requirements

[humble apex]

Fighting Brutal Raiders with no modifier and this time they have the power to truly one shot you.

[wary void]

Yea brutal raiders can one shot you lol

But you can’t one shot them

Have fun

[grand quest]

I use wumg strat

Who cares about casualties

Im throwing everything

[austere imp]

Wimps + UMGs + pelicans

Very cheap

[grand quest]

The thing is fire mod bs disproportionately benefit the p2w

Its already bad with normal bs

[onyx jacinth]

hcts

for daysssss

pyros

[grand quest]

But firemod just forces you to either buy or suffer

[onyx jacinth]

for daysss

[grand quest]

Not a good mechanic i tell you

[wary void]

I mean the alternative is you need to whale on tanks

[austere imp]

That's the goal lmao

[grand quest]

You dont need to whale for tanks

Heavier exists

To help us plebs

[onyx jacinth]

prob is

[wary void]

I mean it’ll get blasted in a non firemod BS

[onyx jacinth]

ur heavier is prob dying if u cant kill enemy fast enough

[wary void]

Those brutal raiders still exist

Yea

[onyx jacinth]

thats why hcts and pyros work

[grand quest]

The thing is

I already fought with the brutal raider

[onyx jacinth]

that hct dot is disgusting

as a f2p with FAs, i was praying for stuns

and having my wimps do all the work for tanky targets

sht was stressful

[wary void]

If you can’t one shot the brutal raiders they get more chances to hit you, and sure, they might do less damage

But some of them will still hit like a truck

[grand quest]

The thing with firemod bs is

[wary void]

Bombadiers get more chances to nuke you for example

[grand quest]

Not only that i need to watch out for brutes

But i also need to watch out for fire based enemies

[wary void]

This is true

[grand quest]

Its worse

[wary void]

There were a couple formations that had 4-5 high priority targets

[grand quest]

It becomes a damage check at the end of the day

And that sucks

[shadow mountain]

Sometimes you can by luck not have them hit you and have a weaker unit attack... sometimes.

[wary void]

I think I kinda agree with you, but we’ll have to see if without firemod it’s any better

If you can’t kill the dps units fast enough and they get their chances to fire off it doesn’t really matter at the end of the day

But you’re right that there’s a lot more dps units with firemod

[grand quest]

When most of the unit are capable of one shotting a heavier i dont think there is a semblance of balance in it

[humble apex]

teehee

vomits

[twin orchid]

i was using dragons and was clearing faster than hcts

but generally speaking ur right

[viscid lake]

Salamander and UFTs are a nasty combo personally

[wise hazel]

To be fair those things were basically balanced for max level units, not what we have now

[wary void]

Fair

[wise hazel]

The outrage when they dropped in the original was wild. The Mammoth Tank and the Total War Mammoth got heavily nerfed and are a shadow of their former terror. Imagine if the total war had the brutal bombardier’s damage

[spark panther]

I can understand lowering t10 req for better community participation and fun. Not by much though it’s really not hard. The rest should stay challenges for committed and prepared groups

[true comet]

Bc it was way easier at lower levels. Try being a fresh lvl 46 player fighting the level 50 formations. 0 communication to not level up during BS. Another surprise

[tribal lantern]

Skill issue

[gaunt vigil]

That was exactly how it worked back then too, so I think they expected people to just know. However, you are eight that in game communication will need to be ramped up given that they are not advertising and presumably attracting new players. That's probably a good use of their new mail system

[sullen girder]

Here's my 2 cents on why nerf BS:

1. We're all more than a decade older than before; we grew up, and we have less time. BS needs to be nerfed so that the bare minimum of resources and 1 copy units is accessible to everyone.
2. A lot of us are back in BN for the nostalgia, but not because we want to live through the exact same experience. At least for me, I am back because I want to experience things that I couldn't in the past, which includes content that I never was able to surpass before (I don't think I ever beat AC). I'm able to optimize better now, so that helps
3. to both fulfill the desire of getting access to units we couldn't have gotten years ago and to help expand the game to newer players, all basic rewards/units should be accessible without having to grind one's butt off. Anything extra is strictly for convenience. Having 1 copy of a promo unit is ok for players to not get soft-locked by tough content, but not super game changing. Having additional units should be a matter of convenience, allowing clears and farming without worrying about one accidentally getting sent to the hospital/repair bay (also it's just fun running whole rows of promo units)

.
Specific changes I recommend:
-Reaching T10 should be cut down to 50-80% of the original. T11+ tiers can increase by greater than 2x (e.g. 2.5-3x for T11-13; or just specifically don't reduce the point requirements for T11+ and make them the same as this Yuzul BS) so that this doesn't lead to guilds that cleared well previously to suddenly get tons of units. It doesn't need to be a continuous multiplier from tier to tier.

• (this is important) The time it takes to reach full T10 should be only 20-30 min a day for casual player **ON TOP OF **other daily BN farming like SW, rebels, sovereign, bosses, etc. An extra hour a day is a terrible experience, and it's an hour assuming people have grinded out R6 wimps and ranked meta units prior (if they are too casual to grind BS, they will not have grinded before. Or if they lvl <40). Devs should be conservative with point estimates. Also we live in an age where people also wanna do other fun games and stuff like tiktok, valorant, gacha, console games, etc.
  -Bonus pts for small guilds should be scaled up (in a balanced manner of course; we have data from various guilds that a stats-savvy person could use to calculate appropriate multipliers based on intra-guild distribution) You can scale up points but cap it at a hard ceiling per clear (e.g. 8k, 10k) so that you don't have issues of guilds of 10 people clearing crazy fast.

TL;DR:
-Returning players (or at least me) are here to improve our past grind and also experience things we couldn't have before (e.g. not being part of a well-organized guild that could actually clear things).
-BS point requirements should be reduced so casual players need only grind for 20-30 mins daily on top of normal BN activities for full T10 rewards. T11+ points can be scaled up to prevent too many rewards

[worthy ridge]

Gonna try to reply to this as objectively as I can

1. It’s unknown if devs wants BS to be the “endgame” mode or something accessible to everyone, so it depends on their philosophy. I could see them thinking that T10 should be the “goal” and hence keep the difficulty, or make units accessible and make it easy
2. Definitely agree there
3. It’s hard to make units where it’ll be good at one copy and not better at 2 copies without having unit limits (they could definitely do that but it could hurt people’s motivations to grind for higher tiers)
4. I can see them keeping the difficulty so they get more playtime/higher numbers during the big event. Does this hurt players who don’t have time? Definitely but it is a strategy that works

[sullen girder]

I like these points. I do think that additional unit copies, even if they are major improvments, are still a diminishing return (e.g. the first M10 finally allows 3x3 damage. so you can clear maybe a turn earlier. The extra M10s can help make it consistent but don't enable a mechanic that you couldn't get previously.)

And yes, I agree with and am fine with BS events having a goal of increasing play time, but I wonder if cumulative play time across the whole player base would be better if the tiers/points were more accessible? Like, in theory, players who stopped at lower tiers may push for higher tiers and accumulate more points than previously if they didn't feel so burned out and run into reward droughts early (leading to more play time if the numbers are tuned properly).

[worthy ridge]

Most BS units do have increased payout, like snake being able to cycle attacks until ammo runs out with 3 snakes or getting more B10 Boar shots in. Main thing is that more units = lower cooldowns and that will never really change. Even a unit with 1 turn CD, 2 is way better since you get to non-stop attack with this unit now. At some point it does get to diminishing returns, but that number is virtually never at 1 copy

It’s really hard to say, since I can completely see many guilds seeing the T11 score reqs and saying “nah we can’t reach this, stop here.” This did happen too, many guilds simply stopped when they reached the tier they thought they’d cap out on (some stopped/burned out on T9 even) So it’s more likely to reduce player playtime imo, especially since the jump of tiers beyond T10 is so big.

[fair pike]

with another boss strike on the horizon and one that, as far as we know, will have significantly longer clear times with increased losses, I believe this thread deserves to be brought back up again.

This next strike should have lower requirements becauseplayers will be getting fewer points overall

[potent flume]

Not this again! 😭

[sacred totem]

Only thing id agree with is buffing lvl 56-60 points gained as points per minute favors 51-55 by a good amount which makes no sense. Otherwise the scores are fine as is at least for the boss strike tiers

[onyx jacinth]

half all the tiers

immediately

pronto

[proven wave]

Screw boss strikes, give me 5 B10s at once

[sacred sand]

Honestly just make BS a global score that all guilds contribute to and require each player to gain certain amount of points to start earning the rewards

So those that didn't show up or put effort won't get it

[fair pike]

That’d be interesting as like, an annual thing, but boss strike should should mostly remain a guild thing

[scenic condor]

Annual world strike?

[molten siren]

3 LSW as the T1, and set T1 to only need one single fight

[modern crest]

lol same could be said about the black nanos but people complained about the drop rate since that item was a t5 it should have been hard to get now its more like a 1t item

[grim vector]

Not even worth playing another infected events at this point unless they add new units or for f2p nanos

I have around 15 of every arch infected lol

[fair pike]

nanos are always useful

or always have potential

[grim vector]

No point grinding unless you’re f2p

[molten siren]

Someone grinding out over a thousand nanos, by their claim

I would welcome the event again

Helps new F2P players a lot, but still makes them work for it some

[brisk tiger]

Did they rush the nanopod facility? 😂

[molten siren]

Ignore me, it was over 1000 bnanos in total

A good amount of nanos, but my not that

[brisk tiger]

Ah black nanos makes more sense. Still an impressive amount for 72 hours. It was a good event for those who wanted to use it

[molten siren]

And some were spent on troops

But it was still a considerable amount of nanos

[brisk tiger]

I got around 50 nanos. Great for F2P. I'll try to prepare by building an area of black nanopod facilities unopened on my outpost for next time so I don't have to build them all during the event

[proven wave]

the record so far for this event is Law with 110 bnano I believe

done with extensive funneling of unwanted guildmate encounters

and a lot of rss farming to make up the stone and wood shortfall

[brisk tiger]

It's crazy to think what F2P have to go through to get a few nanos now compared to watching a few tapjoy ads with Z2's BN

[sacred totem]

No way 110 black nanos is the record for this event lol

Ive seen people get a couple hundred

[proven wave]

Hmm it’s the one I seen

If anyone have a higher proof (from number of converters) feel free to post it too👀

[sacred totem]

@thin nebula Time to shine

[proven wave]

👀

[brisk tiger]

I think I got 375 black nanos and I took a few breaks when I was maxed and didn't have anything I wanted to infect. I'm sure there's higher

[thin nebula]

During the event, I infected 50 units and got 113 nanos and ended with 50 black nanos

[sacred totem]

565 black nanos for conversion, 250 black nanos for infecting, plus 50 for leftover

@proven wave 865 black nanos 💀

[sharp copper]

That seems low tbh

I thought he was over that

Was it 110 regular nanos he produced?

[proven wave]

Yes I mean 110 regular nanos

[sharp copper]

That makes sense

So like 500 bnanos

Tis a lot

[onyx jacinth]

bruh what

https://tenor.com/view/how-it-feels-when-you-meme-nanami-jjk-gif-10683277372535996893

250 (arctic) + 160 (bigfoot) + 600 (refineries) = 1010 bnanos

[proven wave]

I mean green nano

Autocorrect

[onyx jacinth]

i got 120 green nanos

[little bramble]

Yall mad fr