Spawn-on-death units should inherit the characteristics of your own units

[viscid rain]

Current System: Currently, troops like the Armadillo and Turtlesheller will spawn a trooper and grenadier respectively upon death. The spawned troops appear to take the aspects of rank ~3 and have loadouts unique of their default counterparts.

Proposed Change: Spawn-on-death units of all forms, including those spawned on the destruction of defensive buildings like the Blockhouse, should inherit all of the characteristics of the player's troops. This includes the equipped loadouts and the rank/stats of said unit.

Reasoning: Currently there is little reason to justify ranking up early game troops. This change would incentivize and reward players for investing resources and time upgrading said units. The units spawned on death will have increased efficacy in battle and will thusly improve the overall value of the unit or structure they support.

[bleak sable]

Gives a little extra incentive to level up those units I'm sold. 👍

[mint lodge]

Would love that yeah, I dont use those units too often but that's usually the first thing that comes to mind when I do

Would give some incentive to get those early game nano attacks as well (unless we changed them away from being nano, which would be good imo)

[proper tangle]

Would also like some more unit drops like a Scout Bike dropping a Shock trooper

[mint lodge]

And have the aces drop a ranger maybe? That'd be cool

[whole nebula]

scoutbike into shocktrooper would instantly make it much more viable

[mint lodge]

As would more than 1 attack slot

Though, its other moves make it more of a ranged unit, it spawning a shock in the back would be kinda counter intuitive

[proper tangle]

Well it shock trooper's precision shot had a range of 2 it'd be a mid row

[mint lodge]

But that attack sucks

and costs nanos

Think this could be an instance of "make a new unit", just the Scout Trooper or something, make him a different lil guy

Or just have it change helmets and become the basic trooper

[drowsy edge]

Almost all researchable attacks do for some god forsaken reason and only maybe 2 of them are worth it(?)

[proper tangle]

Sacrificing ~1/3 of damage for an extra slot of range would be alright

[proper tangle]

Was just talking about those over in the other channel. More than you'd think

[drowsy edge]

And how many of those units does the average person own?

The Medium tank is on this chart, and Zoeys Trebuchet, and yet It's all just irrelevant to alternative units.

[proper tangle]

Wimp, Gunner, Scout Bike, Chem tanks, Mortar team and Truck, Grenadier, either of the sniper units, Commando, Turtlesheller just in the top two rows

[mint lodge]

grenadier?

mandatory?

[proper tangle]

Easy to r2 and first acess to stun

[mint lodge]

surprised the turtlesheller's is so low, that doesnt even take nanos

the chem shot is probably its best attack

Im also surprised the riot shield is viewed so positively

[proper tangle]

3 turn stuns are pretty rare and unlike Dragoon, consistsnt

[mint lodge]

its stuck on a mediocre unit, costs nanos, and only hits other infantry

[proper tangle]

At a point in the game where you're fighting almost excluvely infantry, but we're getting off topic

[mint lodge]

I'm guessing that tierlist doesnt separate for pve vs pvp

Also true, detoured there

[proper tangle]

Aces could drop one. Could maybe have the Mortar team and some of the early artilerry drop a unit but do think ability should be pretty rare

[mint lodge]

I kinda like it for these units that specifically depict soldiers riding something, ride goes down, BAM, infantry

the mortar crew, ehh, probably a little silly, like did only one die? kinda weird

The infantry that would fit these units are pretty mediocre though, it's a very niche and small bonus at best

[proper tangle]

Mammoth riders

[mint lodge]

Yeah that could work

But what if, they became regular mammoths instead 👀

50/50 shot its a mammoth or a raider

that could be fun

Could make the scary shotgun mammoth riders even scarier, spawn a shotgunner after

😱

yeah no rarer is better, tossing it out on so many enemies would kinda just make them annoying to fight

would mess with pvp value too

[drowsy edge]

The point was nano researchable attacks. The wimps attacks are one of the rare non-nano exceptions.

[mint lodge]

particularly with early game units

[regal jolt]

I like this because my rank 4 grenadiers will get some more action :)))

[whole nebula]

why does bundle of grenades suck? from wiki it seems like just a burst of damage

[proper tangle]

Random spread and uses all its ammo

[somber dirge]

This is a really neat idea, I like it.

[regal jolt]

From my usage it mostly hits the center, so I wouldn’t say it’s useless

[shut vault]

Bump. This absolutely needs to be implemented

[wild vigil]

Don't they inherent the level of the original unit's rank?

[shut vault]

Dont think so. An r6 turtlesheller will spawn a grenadier with lvl 1 stats

[wild vigil]

Huh. That's odd

[shut vault]

If the spawn on death units carried over their counterparts rank it would give more of a reason to rank up those weaker units, even if the gain is small overall

[wild vigil]

I figured carrying over the rank of the original unit made more sense

I think that's how it was/is supposed to work

[shut vault]

Tbh while that would be better than how it is now, id prefer if it went off their counterparts rank as to encourage the use of the other units. Would feel odd having an r6 grenadier spawn when you haven't ranked grenaiders up

[bold scroll]

The one issue I have with that is it’d suck having to go back and attempt to grind up your War Mammoths to make sure your Mammoth Tanks/Mammoth Artillery are as good as they can be

Also spend 50 nanos to make the mammoth pen…

[jaunty cargo]

mammoth pen is good

[bold scroll]

Well, yes

But it’s a pain to be stuck buying a mammoth pen, training war mammoths, and grindinf them up for the sake of a completely different unit

[shut vault]

If you feel 200k total sp is too much then thats fine, but this does add an incentive for using units that otherwise noone would bother using even with some buffs

Its just am extra boost to get the most out of units that are fine on their own, and also a great way to encourage grinding new units

[jaunty cargo]

you spend 50 nanos and unlock a F2P unit you can build as many as you want of for free

and also get a nice shop

[shut vault]

They could also just make the mammoth pen not cost nanos as well. But then again not like 50 nanos is much when considering they will add more ways to obtain nanos for free

[jaunty cargo]

yeah 50 nanos is not much

[bold scroll]

That’s not the point? I just think it’s a sizable inconvenience to, in order to optimise the performance of a late-game unit and a promo unit, you have to double back, pay additional nanopods for a shop, then grind up an early-game unit

[shut vault]

The shop is only 50 nanos. By the time something like this gets added getting 50 nanos in f2p or if they make the shop f2p will eliminate that issue. As for grinding up the unit, the war mammoth is easy to rank up compared to most units, so its really not a chore by any means

200k sp from r1 to r6 is nothing

[bold scroll]

Let me put it another way

Mammoth Tanks are 70 nanos apiece, that means a $10 pack, 210 nanopods cleanly pays for 3 Mammoth Tanks

In the proposed scenario, that’s not enough, though, I need to either spend 5 level ups worth or spend an additional $5 at least to pay for the Mammoth Pen

For someone on a budget like me, that’s a genuine obstacle where there wasn’t one before

[shut vault]

I would agree given mammoth pen is currently 50 nanos. Im saying in the event they make nanos obtainable in f2p besides leveling up then its not an issue to get the mammoth pen for that

Which the devs will have implemented before this does most likely

[bold scroll]

Okay but Madrona hasn’t stated any intention to make the Mammoth Pen f2p

Nor is there any sign that they will do so

[shut vault]

Doesn't have to be f2p. I just said they will most likely just make nanos easier to get which solves the problem

[jaunty cargo]

i don’t think mammoth pen should be F2P

that would make imperial boar useless

[bold scroll]

I don’t agree? It’s still a problem, just less severe. That 50 nanopods would ideally be going to something else important, like the Raptor Harness for Zoey’s Trebuchet, or an additional M10.

Or etc and so forth

[jaunty cargo]

war mammoth is better than imperial boar in every way

so if they were both available F2P nobody would get boars

[gusty night]

Boar is useless anyways tbh

It just needs a buff

But that's a whole other topic

[bold scroll]

I'm not trying to dismiss your guys' perspective here, but you're both mammoth-tier subscribers. I'm a very light spender myself, I very much have to budget to make all my nanos count

an additional 50 nano tax to these units is a genuine downside for me

"Oh it's just 50 nanos that's nothing" isn't a thing for me

[jaunty cargo]

mammoth pen is the same cost as the raptor shot on zoey trebuchet

[bold scroll]

Yes exactly

That is what I am saying

I'd rather those 50 nanos go toward the raptor shot

[jaunty cargo]

oh wait it’s 40

if the mammoth pen was 250 nanopods i would agree

but it’s only 50 nanos that’s not much

that’s like, $5

[bold scroll]

Yes, yes it is

But that's exactly my point? We've raised my $10 purchase of Mammoth Tanks to $15

[shut vault]

I get what youre saying, but like I said, if they make nanos much easier to obtain then 40 nanos isnt that big of a deal. At some point youll have enough m10s and you only unlock the raptor shot once. With nanos being easier to obtain at some point even you won't have to worry about spending 40 nanos for the ability to rank up the war mammoth to boost your mammoth artillery

[jaunty cargo]

you only have to buy the mammoth pen once

[gusty night]

Eh nah all I'll say is that it feels like a kinda gross move to make mammoth artillery cost an extra 40 nanos

[jaunty cargo]

just like the raptor shot in the trebuchet

[gusty night]

The cost itself isn't super high but it feels similarly to spending nanos on attacks, just feels kinda gross and cash-grabby

[bold scroll]

Okay, but I'm talking about the world as it currently exists. In the world as it currently exists, the Mammoth Pen is not F2P, and nanos have not been made more common

[gusty night]

If mammoth pen is made F2P I think this is fine tbh

[bold scroll]

We're talking in hypotheticals here

[shut vault]

This would be the most ideal situation

[bold scroll]

you're taking a hypothetical for granted

[gusty night]

Maybe they can make it so it's either the base spawn unit or your ranked unit, whichever is stronger

[jaunty cargo]

good idea

[bold scroll]

I like the idea of Spawn on Death units ranking up with the "mother" unit's rank

[shut vault]

Only reason I want the spawn unit tied to the counterpart is to encourage using the other units. No point in grinding war mammoth for anything rn otherwise

[bold scroll]

another thing on my mind:

Spiderwasp Drones

[jaunty cargo]

you can’t rank those up yeah

[bold scroll]

You can't get those outside of the Spiderwasp Egg

[jaunty cargo]

so they would be base

[shut vault]

The main thing that matters tho is they make the spawn on death unit scale with something whether its the main unit or its counterpart

Feels like a waste having the unit spawn it at r1 when the other one is r5 or r6

[bold scroll]

Yeah that much I agree

[jaunty cargo]

maybe it could scale off level?

[bold scroll]

currently they're roughly r3

that said Cannon Towers and Blockhouses don't have ranks

so things get weird there

[jaunty cargo]

it would be nice for defense buildings to be upgradable

i don’t think they need it though

they heal for free which is really big

it would be nice if friends doing battles in your base can use your defense buildings

[bleak sable]

I feel like this thread is worth revisiting.

[errant kestrel]

the main prob rn is that transitioning into the spawned unit still makes it so the original unit is killed

which defeats the purpose of spawn on death imo

[obsidian basin]

Just saying with the mammoth artillery and tank the rank isn’t much of an issue

Artillery is 2-3rd row can’t attack
Tank costs a widget and necklace to heal you don’t want that being killed

Now hear me out

If the spawn on death mammoth survived the teeth cost is removed from the heal cost

Also can AMR get SoD

[bleak sable]

I liked how before the update if the spawned unit survived you didn't have to heal the unit. I understand why they removed that but it was nice.

[errant kestrel]

i think that feature should remain, just so the spawn on death unit actually gives it a benefit

[rugged fiber]

this honestly could be a good way to balance units for boss strikes

like if the unit isn't incredible at BS, but it has a spawn on death unit that means you most likely don't need to repair it

[errant kestrel]

true

[rugged fiber]

it becomes really nice in a difficult BS

[errant kestrel]

it actually makes sense then

to have a spawn on death unit

cuz it needs to die twice

idk why they removed it tho

[bleak sable]

I would love it if they brought it back

[obsidian basin]

I doubt they will as then mammoth artillery will require 900 plus damage before it needs healing and around 600 before it’s not use full that’s a lot for an artillery

[rugged fiber]

but mammoth artillery is

[errant kestrel]

i think theyre bad enough to warrant that

[rugged fiber]

not super strong damage wise

ye

it kinda makes sense for that unit

if the cooldowns were buffed maybe not

[errant kestrel]

if he dies 1st form, that mammoth is useless

hes in the back

[obsidian basin]

100% but can still bait attacks and keep the one beside him alive longer

[errant kestrel]

i think u can live with that

thats 1 less dps against the enemy

its like fielding an aa turret vs no air units

[obsidian basin]

I don’t see them dying often at rank 6tbh

[errant kestrel]

SWs can kill em

[obsidian basin]

That’s their biggest weakness and all units have their places to not use them

End of the day it should preform against SW and rebels having explosive resistance that it will be most likely to be hit with in a boss strike

[bleak sable]

I still think this has some very interesting potential to make units often seen as useless now have some more viability.

[flint spire]

Bumping this for the Thresher tank.

[shut vault]

Thats right I forgot about that

Yeah this is definitely more necessary now than ever

[bold scroll]

Actually the Thresher Tank's case is a bit more jank

the Thug it's supposed to drop is nearly identical to an r6 Thug statistically

I believe

[white wharf]

Iirc the defense stat suffer greatly

[bold scroll]

ahh

still, it's not supposed to be as weak as it is

[white wharf]

SoD unit could use some standardization or something along that line.

[bold scroll]

That in mind, I've already voiced my opposition to the whole double unit grind thing

[errant kestrel]

it would be better if they made it so the unit only dies if the spawned unit dies

cuz it's really not useful having a 2nd unit without having a 2nd life

[white wharf]

I had thought that is the sole purpose of SoD, apparently not..

[errant kestrel]

yea

they removed it recently

idk how it worked in the og tho

[white wharf]

The only unit that i might be iffy about is prolly the anti grav tank

Dropping an aero trooper

[whole nebula]

having an extra guy that can absorb an extra hit from the AS or in the latter stages of a boss strike could save another unit that you care more about

[naive shadow]

Amazing idea furthers the planning of the unit too