micron+ 180 strange resonance issues (source found) | VORONDesign | Page 1

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 7:42 AM

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okay micron+ 180,
dual shear ldo nema 14's on a/b,
6mm belts
teeny bfi and bzi
live idlers on x joints
beserker linear rails and bearings
-mgn9c on x
printed gantry
printed anthead (could use nh36 supportbracket)

umbilical setup sucks but doubt its the main issue

i have a beacon on this printer as well as sensorless homing running on kalico

both accel chips are in working order and can be used for comparison

so i've got a fresh built micron 180. everything has seemed to go rather well and i even managed to solve a bit of binding on the x rail , its printing so i decided to finally feed it IS , and its been strange to say the least, was recommended 27k accels on y, and 3,800 on x.. yeah that's not right lol, i double checked axes mapping, yeah so i went through the process of getting shake tune running on the little guy and whacky graphs to say the least lol, i can post pictures of a voron cube, but it does have infill, if it has to be 0 infill i can reprint.

i have rebuilt the entire x axis, ad nothing screamed problem, i put screws in all the preloaded nuts to hold them in place, and it wasn't untill i fed it 200 aph that the graph cleaned up. from what i hear thats insane to feed a printed gantry , im new to this lol
so uh yeah, im not sure where to even look so heres a few of the graphs thanks!

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my internet is fairly slow, i will be uploading detailed pictures of everything in question as well as the actual arifiacts that exist on the prints , current accel values are like 10k with a 200mm limit on speed, so quick but not crazy, the x rail was really tight , but i loosened it up some, cleaned it really well, regreased with ep2 and rebuilt it and it didnt really seem to make a difference unfortunutely belt tention has been done by ear , and the actual tests ( aside the 200 aph) where generally really quiet nothing sounded loose

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these tests where 200aph

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ill fire it up to get a belt comparison grapgh, i have one, but not on my laptop

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ive just ordered a new carriage because its lke $8 because i have another one that feels great on the rail but wont work for this printer

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that seems to be most of everything requested, if i need to alter anything or provde more specifics, fell free to let me know , thanks in advance!

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oh also , no tmc autotune, ab motors are on 5160 drivers, z is on 2209 , all 24v, interpolate is on, and printer and all part have around 2 hrs on them total

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 8:56 AM

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just going through the pictures, just did another complete gantry deracking, and zip tied the z chain out of the way, built in is results look better, getting ST graph now

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yeah same issues, man what a head scratcher lol, this is 100aph

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150

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175 aph

south bolt Mar 7, 2026, 2:59 PM

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your high ApH (200hz) is probably masking issues.
What is your belt tension at?
How are you measuring it?
your belts do not look like they have equal tension.
Are they the same length?
Are both belts the same length on the left hand side of the toolhead.
Are both belts the same length on the right hand side of the toolhead? (left and right hand side can be different lengths)
From your x-axis it looks like you might be racked.
Make sure you use NH36 for this testing.
Run all test at an ApH of 75-100

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:12 PM

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Okay that's a handful, let's see,
belt tention is by ear, and as equal as I can get it, double checked by a printed gauge,( it's not very accurate)
I loosed up the entire gantry and verified that the belts where identical to the tooth in length,
squared the ab brackets, tightened them, and tentioned the belts both equally then tightened the x axis back all the way,
These didn't seem to affect the graph much at all.
But my gantry doesn't feel or look racked without the belts on, so I sincerely doubt that I am
The tention may have been unequal for most of those graphs, but I'm not terribly sure if it changed much
I will use the nh Accel chip here on out
And as for 75-100, do you want a spread? Or just to add a fresh 75 and 100, thanks!

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Now when it comes to the live idlers, I'm not familiar with live idlers. But it's one of those parts that spin when x is moving so it's in the problematic area. I have one side that the pully can spin on the shaft and one that cannot ,if there's a problem with these pullys it's gotta be here

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One of the pictures shows it pretty decently, but my b motor bracket was crooked. Since fixed, (didn't change anything lol) I've pulled apart the rail and rebuilt and greased it, (nada, unless my ski is bad, I have a new one on the way) I took all the panels off, back ones next, and even ruled out the z chain from the bigger issues

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I'm just at a loss here tbh, I do have a 350 V2 and never had this issue, so I don't know where to look

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But I'm all ears man, you know what I suspect, and now I await your knowledge lol thanks!

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Oh, I need to run a new belt comparison, as it should be better after fixing the rear brackets and. Tentioning with calipers to track where I'm at, comparing and adjusting with that printed gauge

south bolt Mar 7, 2026, 6:24 PM

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in the live idlers is the gear fixed to the shafy?
Can you swap out the live idlers for regular xy joint idlers? If so I think I would do that

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By ear is not a very good way to measure belt tension. This is my order of belt tension devices
PF makes tension tool -> phone app -> digital capiper style -> ear -> touch

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:26 PM

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The micron seems to have a press fit assembly, it was assembled in an odd manner and the x axis was actually crooked so I replaced them with pullys with bearings, only to find out I just killed the live bearing, well ff I went to fix them back into live idlers after seeing my is results and one of them is significantly looser but kinda locked in when compressed

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:27 PM

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south bolt By ear is not a very good way to measure belt tension. This is my order of belt ...

I've been meaning to get one of those tools, I just haven't had the money to tbh

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Oh, I should mention I got this micron on trade and I'm finishing it, so there are a large amount of unknowns

south bolt Mar 7, 2026, 6:28 PM

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As a starting point I am thinking it is also xy joints.

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:28 PM

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I'll try and find the files for the standard idlers /xy joints

south bolt Mar 7, 2026, 6:28 PM

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however, do me a flaor and check your z-joints. Make sure they are snug to the y-extrusions

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:29 PM

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I fought them in my 350 V2, and went CNC just to quit messing with the joints lol

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:30 PM

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south bolt however, do me a flaor and check your z-joints. Make sure they are snug to the y...

Ii was gonna say I checked them earlier and they where fine lol, but I know what it's like to assume, and checked them again, yes they're snug, they're actually a printed Ridgid mount

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Assuming is why it took me several weeks to get can working, dumb 120ohm resistor lmao

south bolt Mar 7, 2026, 6:31 PM

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okay. Then lets swap out the xy joints for the standard ones. When you have the xy joints removed, make sure the x-axis is square and not twisted. If this is second hand don't take anything for gratned.

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:32 PM

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south bolt okay. Then lets swap out the xy joints for the standard ones. When you have the ...

That's fair, and I haven't been, but it is a very high end kit, and was unfinished but to say the x joints have given me the most issues to date would be an understatement and I already planned on replacing them

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This was the first time I pulled it apart lol

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south bolt Mar 7, 2026, 6:34 PM

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what can be happening with the live idler is that the part with the plastic is rubbing causing friction. Same could be happening with the top

terse rampart Mar 7, 2026, 6:35 PM

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south bolt what can be happening with the live idler is that the part with the plastic is r...

I thought about that... Yeah, it didn't have any shims between the plastic and the flange bearings but did have them between the pully and the flange bearings

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I'll look into it more and see what is/isn't supposed to be in that stack, and find the files for the normal x joints a

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This last time I pulled it apart, I actually sanded down those spacers so that the overall height of the stack was 25mm

terse rampart Mar 9, 2026, 2:38 AM

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Well I'm attempting to get the x joints sorted, I'm having trouble trying to figure out just what parts I need to make it work, I'll update this thread with new graphs when I finally get them swapped out

terse rampart Mar 9, 2026, 3:19 AM

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Could this do it?

terse rampart Mar 9, 2026, 5:39 AM

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The plot thickens

south bolt Mar 9, 2026, 6:25 AM

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It is okay if the xy joint toothed idlers move up and down.

south bolt Mar 9, 2026, 6:25 AM

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terse rampart Could this do it?

This is no good.

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Take a look at vitalii3d website he has aluminum spacers which might fit

terse rampart Mar 9, 2026, 6:28 AM

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south bolt Take a look at vitalii3d website he has aluminum spacers which might fit

I believe the issue is the actual joint there, it just doesn't look straight. Id have to wait to order anything lol I did get that to stop with a single washer 2 washers fits better but compresses the live idler too much and causes binding, I may take the time to sand the spacer and fit two washers in there

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It really wouldn't take much effort on the spacer, but yeah I noticed the top belt was dragging on the left idler and spinning it, upon closer inspection the whole idler was able to move up and down in place. When up, it didn't drag, when down it dragged on the bearings flange

terse rampart Mar 9, 2026, 9:51 AM

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welp, that seems to have been it

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the washer and fine tuning the plastic spacer seemed to have solved the weird devide in graphs, its still not perfect but its ALOT better, i suppose this means im due for a few new parts on the gantry lol

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south bolt Mar 9, 2026, 1:43 PM

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You can try printing another cube, setting both to EI. Or you can rerun these test with sweeping on. If things are still rubbing that might show up in the graphs

terse rampart Mar 10, 2026, 2:08 AM

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south bolt You can try printing another cube, setting both to EI. Or you can rerun these te...

Good call, I'll run another round with sweeping on, and print another cube as it sits

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I went through and fixed a lot of small issues last night, reran the umbilical, recrimpes my hot end thermister ,LEDs, and beacon wires, moved the USB plugs around Based on some reccomendations saying some toolhead board experience a random disconnect/ data issues on the 3.0 ports, so I corrected just about anything and everything I ran across

terse rampart Mar 10, 2026, 1:29 PM

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alright ei shaper applied, damping ratio applied, limited to 8275 accel 300mm/s letting it run another cube

terse rampart Mar 10, 2026, 2:06 PM

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Seems to have moved away from the great majority of ringing, it does however have lots of faint vfa lines lol more so on x

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I'm going to rerun the graphs with a sweeping period and see what happens

south bolt Mar 10, 2026, 2:11 PM

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It looks more like belts in these pictures

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Can you run vibrations profile please.
Also did you run input shaper with sweeping on

terse rampart Mar 10, 2026, 2:20 PM

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im trying to figure out how to make it use sweeping lol

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i cant seem to find a good value for the sweeping period, and i just have it set to 0

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tried commenting it out but shakentune doesnt seem to use that section.

south bolt Mar 10, 2026, 2:25 PM

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just comment out the entire line for sweeping and klipper will internally default to it

terse rampart Mar 10, 2026, 2:25 PM

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gotcha i thought so, but im assuming that means everything sweeping related not just the period

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running vibration profile now

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at defaults

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shakentune still didnt run with sweeping...

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lol i had to track down the defaults and force a sweeping period of 1.2

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sweeping on for x

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sweeping on for Y

south bolt Mar 10, 2026, 3:26 PM

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Doesn’t look like any dynamic issue.

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Turn off sweeping, and then run vibrations profile please

terse rampart Mar 10, 2026, 3:30 PM

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That vibration profile above was before sweeping and as it sits

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I can rerun if you'd like though

south bolt Mar 10, 2026, 3:32 PM

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Sorry didn’t see it

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Can you post images of the slicer speeds and access you are using

terse rampart Mar 10, 2026, 11:23 PM

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access? im using orca

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this is a very basic untuned baseline

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printer is currently limited to 5k accels. 300mm/s speed, 50% cruise ratio (whatever that means lol) and scv of 5

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the slicer was configured rather quickly and just isnt set up all the way, im making theprinter limit itself currently

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also need to move to the floor or a better table before turning it up like at all lol

south bolt Mar 11, 2026, 2:37 PM

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Drop normal printing to 5000 accel

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based upon your speeds can you rerun vibrations profile to 350 mm/s please

terse rampart Mar 19, 2026, 10:36 AM

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sorry for the wait, life has been hectic latley this is with 10k limits on the machine , and the 350mm/s speed

south bolt Mar 19, 2026, 1:07 PM

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can you install tmc_autotune and rerun vibrations profile please

terse rampart Mar 19, 2026, 10:32 PM

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Absolutely

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Just gotta figure out what specific motors I'm running lol

terse rampart Mar 20, 2026, 12:38 AM

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350 again, on the adxl345 with autotune installed and running

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south bolt Mar 20, 2026, 3:47 AM

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For ext/int perimeters try 130, or 180.

terse rampart Mar 20, 2026, 4:08 AM

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south bolt For ext/int perimeters try 130, or 180.

is that for the vfa?

south bolt Mar 20, 2026, 4:09 AM

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terse rampart is that for the vfa?

To hopefully minimize it yes

terse rampart Mar 20, 2026, 4:09 AM

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awesome ill swap that over and see how it likes a cube

terse rampart Mar 20, 2026, 4:47 AM

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set it to 180 . would it track to use multiples that allign with those speeds if that works? or is that a further testing situation to find specifis speeds?

terse rampart Mar 20, 2026, 5:06 AM

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ill send pictures, but the vfa doesnt seem to have improved im running 2 walls 3 top/bottoms on this cube at 180mm/s 5k accel

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its not finished printing

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it failed XD i have half a cube

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terse rampart Mar 20, 2026, 5:22 AM

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terse rampart 350 again, on the adxl345 with autotune installed and running

id really love to understand these more, in the bottom right the motor frequency profile, A is so much higher than B , and i see why you chose 130/180 based on the graphs, but its still confusing XD

south bolt Mar 20, 2026, 9:06 PM

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Okay try 250 at 8k

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:30 AM

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okay so i actually stayed up pretty late and played with it some, i currently have it at 250 8.5k, cruise disabled same IS settings, its helped a ton, i did a light PA tune and its close but its like 0.042 and its direct drive so ill revisit

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i havent printed a cube yet on these settings but i did do a couple little test prints

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rn_image_picker_lib_temp_0eb09bc5-cf94-404c-99d6-ce7e781e6479.jpg

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That goldish color is hard to get good pictures of, it's very shiny lol

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The benchy was just disabling cruise, the vfa tower I physically chose 200-250 ish because it was the best on the worst looking material, then I did a half baked PA tune to try and clean up the physical results

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would you like another cube as it sits?\

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:38 AM

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This is basically the same process I would use

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:38 AM

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XD really?

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ive just been tinkering

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:38 AM

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You use the vibration graph to get close, then do test prints, and adjust as necessary

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:39 AM

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huh, i guess i was just so distraught that the graphs didnt just hand me the awnser i assumed i was doing something wrong

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:39 AM

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Then you redo pa/em at the new higher speeds, and keep going around the circle until you get the results you like

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Think of the graphs as a good starting point.

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:40 AM

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i still havent done flow, and a handful of others i really should have it was just already close enough

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:40 AM

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Also if you do the speed vfa test print do not use the 30 and 60 angles.
The best you can hope for is the 0, 90, 45, 135 look good

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:41 AM

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oh they all looked pretty decent around 220-250

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it dips down in the 130+ 180 range too, just not as good in the graphs as the real world

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:42 AM

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The vibration graphs are using an adxl on the toolhead. What would be better is something measuring the motor itself

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:43 AM

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south bolt The vibration graphs are using an adxl on the toolhead. What would be better is ...

Yeah that actually makes a lot of sense, it's a sensor on the end of a stick

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:44 AM

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The goal of vibrations is to actually measure motor vibrations, the toolhead adxl (sensor on the end of a stick) is the closest we have right now

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:44 AM

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30+60° respectively, finger around that 220-250 range

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_3ff7a4fb-2471-40e4-915e-a9afc2423b0a.jpg

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_04764858-405c-4255-82f2-33f541dcef17.jpg

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I don't even wanna know what a solution for that would involve, you'd have to build custom motors, or have a sensor that can be installed on the shaft and be careful about where you test

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:45 AM

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It is being looked into. No real solutions yet

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:46 AM

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I look forward to stuff like that, I mean heck input shaping is still kinda black box magic

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So I know you have plenty of others to help besides me and I don't wanna keep you caught up with all kinds of questions, you just want me to keep looping through calibration routines a few more times ? I can always check in if I genuinely get stuck

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I think my x graphs will continue to get better as I print, the tolerances on that beserker rails are really tight, I had to grease it and run it back and forth for like 40 mins to get it where it is lol

south bolt Mar 21, 2026, 1:50 AM

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The general circle is PA -> em - > belts -> input shaper -> vibrations -> PA (if this is the first time; other times if necessary) -> EM (if this is the first time only need to do once really) -> belts (if mechanical issues) -> print -> input shaper -> (if changing things) -> vibrations -> (print)
something like this

terse rampart Mar 21, 2026, 1:50 AM

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Lol awesome, now em what is em

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Ahh, okay flow

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Well thanks reth, I'll have at it and check back in with good news or more questions lol

terse rampart Apr 12, 2026, 10:27 AM

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Tracked it down finally in-between life and all the other projects I've taken on, seems to be the combination of a less than perfect carriage and grease the rail didn't like 🤦‍♂️ I have some room to improve, but so far these are the results of 250mm/s at 8k mm/s² accels. Very happy, all stuff I know how to fix

#micron+ 180 strange resonance issues (source found)

both accel chips are in working order and can be used for comparison