V0.2 Bad IS

[worn rivet]

hello i recently built a v0 and am getting really bad is graphs they will be attached below

voron cube on the way prints fine just noisy graph 🙂

Ebb 36 is mounted on the back of the white piece on the “tool head”

[stark jacinth]

👋

Please ping me or reply to this message once u are comfortable that everything in the guidelines is provided

No rush, take your time

[iron jewel]

Belts is showing your belts are not evenly tensioned.

The cubes are showing pa issues and other issues,but not sure as pa is off

How are you measuring belt tension and what value are you setting them at

[worn rivet]

im using a guitar tuner app

and 115 hz on each

[worn rivet]

when they are at 150mm distance

[iron jewel]

What tool are you using to measure belt tension

[worn rivet]

guitar tuner app

on my phone 🙁

it works ok though i get good results

[iron jewel]

It is not working okay

Use the gates app. However it is highly recommended to get a pf tension tool. West 3d sells them

[worn rivet]

i keep getting a a host overload issue

so i cant even run belt test now

[severe wasp]

Are you running a cb1?

[worn rivet]

A btt pi

[stark jacinth]

its a known issue, they are pretty weak performance wise.

it was a okayish replacement while raspberry pis were hard to get and very expensive, back during COVID.
but nowadays a pi4 is easy to get and will crush any btt pi

[worn rivet]

Ya I just have it because im now using can bus with it and it came with my kit

[worn rivet]

I’m using the u2c with the btt pi the one that module that goes on top of it

[stark jacinth]

i see. that wont work with a raspberry pi, but there are maaaaaaaany alternatives which do the same thing.
CAN hat for pis or a normal U2C

[worn rivet]

What if I do a manta with a cb1?

Or I have an extra pi 3b can I put it in as more computing power somehow?

[worn rivet]

If that’s possible?

[stark jacinth]

CB1 or 2 is the same thing 🙂

pretty weak

CM4 or CM5 from raspberry pi

[stark jacinth]

if the manta has a CAN port, yes that will work

[worn rivet]

What if I run my btt pi with the raspberry pi can I do that run them together?

[stark jacinth]

I don’t understand

Why would u want to run both?

[worn rivet]

The get the computing power till I replace the board

[stark jacinth]

Im sure there is a way but i wouldnt do that honestly

[worn rivet]

I just need sum till I get the new board

Anyway to get it to compute it it’s shake n tune compare belts and it has done it before but now it dosent like it

[worn rivet]

I feel like it shouldn’t be that hard to run

[worn rivet]

@iron jewel i dont think this is right lol

does this mean it wants belt a tighter or looser?

[worn rivet]

your opinion on the new graph?

[iron jewel]

Did you fully loosen and retighten them?

Also before you touch them can you run input shaper please

[worn rivet]

ya and tune them still something is funny

[worn rivet]

i already touched them and got them a bit closer

[iron jewel]

Let’s see input shaper please

[worn rivet]

idk i keep getting this intermittently when trying to do belts it happens more then it dosent and my pi isnt seeing 100% load at all \

[worn rivet]

so ill try to get one last belt graph then run is

[worn rivet]

@iron jewel what’s your opinion?

[iron jewel]

no, it does not weigh enough to make much of a difference. If you were using a nozzle probe maybe.

[worn rivet]

@iron jewel watched your vid on belt tuning but still this one has me stumped looking a little different now

since that graph i tightened belt be and it went to this imo graph looks better but similarity went down?

[iron jewel]

Were you belts the same length when you put them on?

[worn rivet]

yes

i tightened belt b some more and got this

[worn rivet]

@iron jewel i feel like this is just wild it wants belt b tighter but then dosent?

[iron jewel]

it looks like you have a toolhead issue (the 125hz) can you make sure all screws are secure

[worn rivet]

Everything is tight

I have check all screws and this is the tool head

[worn rivet]

so idk where else to go

[iron jewel]

@stark jacinth got any idea's

[stark jacinth]

A video will always be hard to determine how much force was applied/needed to cause wiggle.
So with that in mind, the back/front wiggle looks a lot to me. Similar as if the rail carriage is bad and wiggles.
Can u see the carriage move from the side while pushing it back and forth? @worn rivet

Wouldnt be the first bad carriage we have encountered

[worn rivet]

nope just flex im putting alot of force into it

[stark jacinth]

A V0 is sensitive to bad ones

[worn rivet]

its just flexing the printed part

[stark jacinth]

Hm interesting

[worn rivet]

its twisting the rail before the carriage has play

[stark jacinth]

Wait what? The rail twists?

[worn rivet]

like gantry roll im really yanking lol

[stark jacinth]

Ok haha

[worn rivet]

just 1515 twisting with rail

lool

ya idk what else to do

time for tulip gantry

[stark jacinth]

One thing i would check is if the printed x carriage is tight by removing DB and inspecting the x carriage. Make sure it has no cracks and all screws are tight - careful, dont over tighten them

[worn rivet]

my thing is i get good is graphs

[worn rivet]

i thought the same and did it they are good i can check again but i checked yesterday

[stark jacinth]

Ok. No need to double check

Only thing thats coming to my mind is that the toolhead board mount is bad and causes the spikes

[worn rivet]

idk why i get like '"solid" is graphs like good accels but bad belt tension

[stark jacinth]

I have never seen that one

[worn rivet]

thought the same replaced it with the one you see and same thing 🙁

[stark jacinth]

Hmm

[worn rivet]

i had a big tal;l one that i didnt like the one you see is crazy ridgid

[stark jacinth]

Chance u have another adxl for the front of DB?

[worn rivet]

ya i have a usb one laying around

[worn rivet]

just so you know its yavoth 🙂

[worn rivet]

i can mount it to the nozzle

[stark jacinth]

Oh u are right. I was focused on the wiggle instead of the toolhead itself

Im also running yavoth, shame on me

[stark jacinth]

Nozzle or front would be good to give us a second measurement to compare

[worn rivet]

The tool head moves with it 😭

idk what to do lmfao

ignore the fan solder joint

[worn rivet]

let me hook that up really quick have to find my accelerometer from ender 3 days

[stark jacinth]

Im really curious how it moves so easily.

[worn rivet]

well im yanking on it im not being gentle

[stark jacinth]

That’s likely the spike we see at 125hz

[worn rivet]

now can i show how much force im putting?

[stark jacinth]

Yea i see that on the MF connector but imo thats too much play

*molex

[worn rivet]

i dont know how to show how much force im using

[worn rivet]

ya im not being gentle

@stark jacinth here are the is graphs i would say y is sus but x isnt CRAZY

[stark jacinth]

Was this via nozzle adxl?

[worn rivet]

Nope ebb 36 I can’t find my adxl im still trying to

[stark jacinth]

And what changed from here #1435053263828422696 message to this now?

Its quite a significant change

[worn rivet]

Belt tension

That’s it

And I took belts off squared the gantry again and re tensioned and here we are

[stark jacinth]

Im going to bed but one thing u can try, install the bowden tube and use a zip tie to connect the CAN cables to it. Leave some slack so there is strain relief. Start with one zip tie and add a second one after a test run

[worn rivet]

Thankyou sleep well!

@iron jewel any better?

some how my mechanical health is excellent

?

[heavy crystal]

Have you done many printing hours? I tried to chase out a similar outlier equalizing belt tensions with the phond app and decided to follow the advice, get some print time in to see how the machine "breaks in" or if other issues become apparent. Get it good enough and press on, tuning is iterative.

[worn rivet]

i have like 5 printing hours on it but pa is being weird so i figured it might be to do with the belts / is

[heavy crystal]

This does look like it wants some strain relief

[worn rivet]

i put on the ptfe tube and ziptied it

same thing again

[iron jewel]

Try reducing tension by say 1/2 knub on a

[worn rivet]

im going to put on some hours and see let the belts strech and move a little ill put on about 12 hours and try again

[worn rivet]

idk any more

all i did was loosen b a bit and tighten a a bit like 1/4 of a turn

i didnt change anything and this is what i got

@chilly berry any ideas?

[chilly berry]

I’ve got no clue for most resonance things honestly. I always defer to @iron jewel

[worn rivet]

i did i think i have him kinda stumped

this whole printer is a headache

[worn rivet]

nothing has changed between these 3 graphs

@iron jewel any ideas? any recomendations would be greatly apreciated

[stark jacinth]

thanks, How is the zip tie action going?

[worn rivet]

I zip tied it up ran the printer for 3 hours using the entire build plate to stretch belts a bit and the graphs above are what’s going on nothing has change among them

Just ran back to back to back

[worn rivet]

Kinda stuck here might have to just go for it build a tulip gantry?

[stark jacinth]

and how is input shaper looking?

did u do 2 runs as i requested?
1 zip tie
2 zip ties

[worn rivet]

I will run it now it didn’t really clean up I don’t think still looked the same

[worn rivet]

Only 1 ziptie it is giving plenty of strain relief

[stark jacinth]

its not about strain relief 🙂 its about reducing umbilical vibration

[stark jacinth]

two separate things

[worn rivet]

thats with ptfe

idk where the vibration is coming from

should i get a metal toolhead carrage? @stark jacinth

[stark jacinth]

so this is with 1 zip tie, correct?

can u add a second one 2 fingers above the first one and run another test please

[worn rivet]

yup!

do you want both or just y?

@stark jacinth not much change sadly

i may be on to it

[stark jacinth]

ok now add a third one

again 2 fingers space

[worn rivet]

im getting rid of the little ceramic piece

it is going ape shit at 87 hz so its time to go

reth said it probably isnt the problem but its going to go

[worn rivet]

@stark jacinth thats with ceramic removed and another ziptie added so 3 zipties

can it be somewhere else on the printer not the tool head?

[worn rivet]

@stark jacinth it now went to this i went through everything

https://tenor.com/view/balthazar-crazy-family-guy-fou-gif-11775947423386520412

[stark jacinth]

check all bearings can spin freely and have no binding.
check that pushing the toolhead, while at the front middle, with a single finger its not binding or blocking at a certain point

[worn rivet]

there is a spot where the belts like to sit (the middle of the bed) because thats where the machine gets powered off but it isnt crazy

its like if you had a small flatspot on a tire it just likes to sit there but will get past it

[stark jacinth]

okay and the bearings as i mentioned?

[stark jacinth]

Are u still using an app to tension the belts?

In the US u have the luxurious privilege to get the pf tension meter pretty easy. A lot of vendors sell it. #west3d-🇺🇸-🌐-🌎-🌍 for example

Highly recommend to get it

[worn rivet]

i have to order the tensioner the bearings are all good and roll well no resdistance the gantry is square and all feels good and i am using a app but i feel like it shouldnt be so far out a and b i feel like if its tension i shouldnt get diffrent graphs without changing anything yk?

[worn rivet]

im ordering one soon

[worn rivet]

should i just do tulip gantry hope it goes away?

[stark jacinth]

as i said before, its your printer, u decide.

i would buy the tension tool and check if belts are good.

u will need that tool anyways

then u can install tulip if it didnt help

[worn rivet]

@stark jacinth got tulip installed with cnc aluminum tool head mount and a cb2 with mp5 and well

No cigar

Also for whatever reason the cb2 can make a vibration profile but not a belt comparison belts are tensioned together to same spec using pf meter

[worn rivet]

it got more extreme

[iron jewel]

Check your belt path - make sure no belts are riding on besrings

[worn rivet]

i dont see any belts riding up or rubbing

[iron jewel]

can you provide a picture of the printer as it currently stands please

make sure to get the entire umbilical in the frame

[worn rivet]

the ptfe it ziptied fast and no the umbilical isnt on the belt @iron jewel

[iron jewel]

Are you wires hitting the belts?
I put the back plate on the back of the printer and route the umbilical and wiring through it

[worn rivet]

they arent hitting the belts

[iron jewel]

not statically, but maybe when it i running

[worn rivet]

Ziptie is not rubbing on belt there is clearance how does this look @iron jewel

[iron jewel]

I would move that zip tie. When these belts move they can hit it

[worn rivet]

@iron jewel better?

[iron jewel]

yes

[worn rivet]

ok its running rn

[worn rivet]

results are better

still peeks but

now i need to find those little things

well i guess its the same thing just mitigated a bit

[iron jewel]

x looks like toolhead or umbilical.

check to makes sure everything is snug in it

[worn rivet]

im posive everything is i have went over it like 100 times

[iron jewel]

I would try to make the umbilical/bowden as it is in the manual and see what that does

[iron jewel]

give that a whirl

[worn rivet]

Ok

[chilly berry]

If you have the nut behind that extrusion the motors mount to installed there’s also a zip tie mount for the umbilical there.

[worn rivet]

i have it there it is ziptied

[chilly berry]

Ah. I just can’t see it in that pic. 😅

[worn rivet]

that pic was prior!

[chilly berry]

Gotcha.

I’m like 90% certain I loaded that nut in mine… I’m gonna hate myself in like 2 months if I didn’t.

[worn rivet]

lmao jsut tear it all apart and reasemble lmao

got side tracked let me go back and upload graphs lol

[chilly berry]

No. I’ll be drilling a 1/4in hole in the extrusion slot to fit it. I am not going to disassemble this thing fully for an eighth time.

[worn rivet]

my bottom acrylic panel is going haywire lmfao

i would say its a graph issue but it is at like 125hz and well the x spike falls outside of that

[chilly berry]

If I were you. I’d do a print with the current recommendations in the graphs and see how it comes out

[worn rivet]

lets be real whats the chances i will see 25k through is

umm

well

not good

[iron jewel]

What does belts look like

Remove ziptie closest to toolhead

You need to add a part in the rear where the umbilical goes down to hold it there

[chilly berry]

If I compare to say my Trident 250. High. You have a build area that is 1/4 of mine. Once you solve whatever is going on. You’ll be there.

[iron jewel]

Okay I see now

Remove zip tie closest to htoolhead

[worn rivet]

One closest to plug?

[iron jewel]

Yup that one between Bowden and umbilical

when you get a chance send over the belts graph

[worn rivet]

get this my cb2 can make is graph vibration profiles but it refuses to do a belt graph it will just throw a ttc

[iron jewel]

use klippers

[iron jewel]

no the zip tie between bowden and umbilical

https://www.klipper3d.org/Measuring_Resonances.html#testing-custom-axes

[worn rivet]

ok its removed i will do y axis IS again

[iron jewel]

test custom axis is klippers built in belt tester

[chilly berry]

It’s a lot less load on the cb2

[worn rivet]

its not even cb2 tho idk what it is

i watch loads like a hawk and its happy

[chilly berry]

Run klippers version. If it works then it’s the cb2.

[worn rivet]

then IS is done thats next step

well

still a little rough but

[chilly berry]

Reth is a god after all.

[iron jewel]

was that becasue of the zip tie removal?

[worn rivet]

ya

thats all that changed

[iron jewel]

what does x look like

[worn rivet]

running it now

[chilly berry]

I’m watching this mainly for my rebuild that’s coming soon. I wanna be able to fix issues. Lol

[worn rivet]

i used silicone flimsy ass wire to specifically mitigate this

[worn rivet]

this is helping me learn alot lol

[iron jewel]

after looking at the big things: belt path, binding, etc. , it generally comes down to stupid shit. Like a zip tie

[worn rivet]

reth i watched your yt but idk

[iron jewel]

to many zip ties, not enough zip ties, zip tie in the wrong spot, etc.

[worn rivet]

it helped

then i forgot it all 🙁

[chilly berry]

Dang it… now I gotta go play with zip ties on the microwave.

[iron jewel]

the real secret is looking at graph's all day and screwing up till you guess the one thing that works

[worn rivet]

lmfao i guess so bc i it is safe to say you know your shit lol

not to good

[iron jewel]

it is okay

you are getting zero on EI

[worn rivet]

but y wants mzv

[iron jewel]

This is similar to awd and an umbalanced toolhead.

you can't get o vibr% on shaketune

[worn rivet]

im doing belts now

[chilly berry]

They can be different

[worn rivet]

i think i did it once but how do i set up 2 diffrent shaper types

i dont remmeber

[chilly berry]

[input_shaper]
shaper_type_x: smooth_ei
smoother_freq_x: 111
shaper_type_y: smooth_mzv
smoother_freq_y: 73.6

But replace smoother with shaper. This is from my printer.

[worn rivet]

how can i tighten the bottom panel?

wedges?

its ratteling like crazy

[chilly berry]

The deck panel? The ends of a zip tie work great

[worn rivet]

ya its driving me nuts

[chilly berry]

Zip ties. We love em. And we hate em. 🤣

[worn rivet]

its to tight lol

it wont fit in the crack

im over zip ties goihg to hot glue lmfao

[chilly berry]

Hot glue will melt in the chamber. Just a heads up. My zip ties must be thinner than yours then. Lol

[worn rivet]

trying to put the new scanner away so i have more desk space

trying to find this belt png

i cant find it lol\

its lost

[chilly berry]

Using WinSCP going to the /tmp folder.

It’s all the back at the start of the root

[worn rivet]

its not there lol

[chilly berry]

It should be… unless the command failed anyways. Both the csv files are there though right?

[worn rivet]

i mean the first peak is there

100%

2nd peak ehhh

@iron jewel i got it eventually

isnt it 1st peak that matters

or is it both and im just dumb

@chilly berry what do you thinki

[chilly berry]

On this graph your goal is just to have both belts resonate equally. Not for one peak.

[worn rivet]

yes but alsong as the first peak is close the 2nd peak dosent have much play does it?

like the 2nd peak isnt as important as the 1st

[chilly berry]

You want blue and yellow to be as close as possible. I can’t remember which belt is which for that graph though.

[worn rivet]

yellow is b

[chilly berry]

Then you either need to tighten A belt by 1/6 turn or loosen B belt by 1/6 turn and test again. This is a trial and error testing process.

I am heading to bed so I wish you good luck in testing that trial and error fun!

[worn rivet]

@iron jewel ya idk

[iron jewel]

based upon your new input shaper graphs I would leave everything alone and do a test print. Setting both shapers to EI and make sure you include damping ratio

[worn rivet]

ok thankyou

[worn rivet]

That’s the print

[severe wasp]

Looks like PA needs a little adjusting. Other than that it looks good 👍

[stark jacinth]

I agree with the above

Even though graphs dont look perfect, i will mark this post as SOLVED since prints come out good 👍🏻

For print tuning we have #slicers_and_print_help