Trident 350 AWD

[slate gale]

why 0?

[faint shuttle]

because when i use only 3% it falls apart

[slate gale]

u cant print at 16k accel with 0 % 😄

[faint shuttle]

ok, how much fan i should use?

[slate gale]

start with telling us more about the print please

like temp

[faint shuttle]

270

[slate gale]

bed
chamber

[faint shuttle]

bed 100

chamber not there

[slate gale]

?

[faint shuttle]

i have no chamber

[slate gale]

i dont understand 😄

[faint shuttle]

20 degrees room temperature

[slate gale]

u cant print ABS without a chamber

or ASA

doesnt matter

also dont print ABS/ASA without a filter, especially if u dont have panels attached.

u will inhale VOCs, not great.

[faint shuttle]

used it for the XOL toolhead

i can use pla too

[slate gale]

u must have a chamber and chamber temp to get strong ABS/ASA parts

otherwise they will not be good

if u print PLA, u dont need panels.
but please dont print ABS/ASA without panels and a filter for your own health

this https://github.com/nevermore3d/Nevermore_Micro?tab=readme-ov-file#about-the-nevermore-micro explains a little and has link to articles explaining VOCs

[faint shuttle]

i know

[faint shuttle]

i know

but i am tired of installing and uninstalling the panels

[slate gale]

why remove them?

[faint shuttle]

and i guess a 15 minute print per month with open window is oke XD

[faint shuttle]

mhm good question.... i guess the answer is this whole tread and my since 1 year journey to find out why my prints came out worse then on my old ender XD

[slate gale]

Lets do a cube with PLA then.
100% fan and the accel i mentioned

hotend ~235

[faint shuttle]

i checked the gantry about 10 times, reinstalled the steppers about 50 times, tried 4 different types of pullys, 2 different X beams, 2 different bearings everywhere, 3 different vendors of linear rail XD

i set the pla up right now

[slate gale]

well the siboor kit is.... not great.

especially for beginners

[faint shuttle]

its not great in no way XD

i am so close to sell it and buy a bambulab... i have so much enough from wasting time and money for nothing.... couldn´t be that hard...

[faint shuttle]

so while trying to print the cube it startet again with some crazy motorsync values over 90k and failed to sync the steppers, cause its nearly impossible to sync them manually its a try and error, which don´t work, now my pelts are again out of sync and i go to bed now... lets start 8 hours before if i can sync them again in some way

[faint shuttle]

so i redo it, now i have "stable values" i also set up the PLA and try to test print, but extruder is slightly skipping at 200mm/s

[slate gale]

Check run_current
Check gear tension

200 is slow. Extruder should not skip

[slate gale]

Check extruder
I printed way faster and had no issues at all. Dont need AWD for the speed in my video
#landofschnitzel-🇩🇪 message

[slate gale]

Also used vz extruder

[faint shuttle]

whats your run_current

[slate gale]

My whole config is on github, click on my profile 😉

.5, but im using a different motor.
Moons 8T

[faint shuttle]

oke i can´t get past 12mm3 flow on pla exept with higher heat

[faint shuttle]

oke printed silcpla (210-230degrees) with 250 degrees and feeled the stepper, but its the steppermotor itselfe which looses steps, seems to haven´t enough power when i help with my hand to put the gear a little it works so i guess its the steppermotor itselfe

[bold plover]

So I'm having a similar issue

in fact @astral dock came to my assistance but i can't make it good, my Y shaper is so bad, i already printed the xy joints for 9mm, 2020 aluminum extrusion on the way, and carbonara on the way as well, going to print xol or a4t toolhead

[bold plover]

Hello! would you mind sharing which shim did you used? thank you!

[faint shuttle]

You can file down the XY joints to build more space for the teeth idlers

[bold plover]

this happens to me as well

[faint shuttle]

May its the siboor high quality stepper 🤣🙈 but i can check, i have a moons and omc stepper laying around too, so i can check....

[faint shuttle]

@slate gale here are your prints 🫡

Accel 16500 with IS and PA at 0.055

@200mm/s

And

@57mm/s

And pa test, cause of bigger surface

@200mm/s

And

@57mm/s

Whats your oppinion on that @astral dock and @slate gale

[slate gale]

klippy log please, but rollover first

[astral dock]

I think it needs some slight tuning in PA. But it looks good.

[faint shuttle]

rollover and then?

[slate gale]

download the log and upload it here 😄

[faint shuttle]

without any print?

[slate gale]

yes

exactly what i requested please 🙂

[faint shuttle]

here you go

[slate gale]

looks good

for slicer tuning u can head over to #slicers_and_print_help

[faint shuttle]

little bit lesser pa i guess i will try

[slate gale]

Slicer tuning is not for this channel 🙂

i will mark this post as solved.

[faint shuttle]

but this "ringing" is normal?

[slate gale]

its VFAs. nothing we can do about it really. u have to play around with speeds

[faint shuttle]

but they appear only after corner

s#

[slate gale]

because thats where its slowing down probably.

[faint shuttle]

after corner 🙂

[slate gale]

yea it has to slown down and then speeds up again 😉

[faint shuttle]

so more SCV but that will maximise it more i guess

[slate gale]

i would ask on the siboor server because thats where u will find a lot of people with the exact hardware u have

maybe support can also help

[faint shuttle]

so 🙂 @astral dock thanks for the video link.... thank you very very much, very interessting. would nice if you sent in the beginning, would let me get it faster :), this is awesome but for sure i have questions for understanding....

1. where is your umbrelical video 😛 i wanna see that to

2. so if i understand that right, these to pictures

[faint shuttle]

the one with the two spikes, is more "wobbly" in general but isn´t that interessting because it gets shaped out, the one with the 3 spikes is worse cause ot 3 spikes... but

but the 3 spikes the energy of ei is peak at ~0.12 and on the 2 spikes one it is ~0.2 so that is worse i guess?

and i would really like to know where my second Y spike comes from... i am 100% sure its not the X rail, and not the 2020 profile.... and every adxl gives me the spike.. doesnt matter if i use the nozzle one, carto or the ebb36 one, i think i might buying one that i can mount directly to the rail without toolhead and measure right there.... slowly i get the feeling that its the Y rails

but i thought the 2020 profile would have more impact.... but good to know so my cnc rail can stay for the bling 😛

nother question is the vibration profile

in the vid you say avoid peaks... so i would use 62mm/s outer walls for overall good performance on organic and square parts, i still have ringing after the corners and when i am at 200mm/s the ringing is fourther away from each other but still there... but to the polar angly energy profile..... its in degrees... so doesnt that mean on 45/135/225 and 315 its the least motor noice... so wouldnt it be perfect for square printer parts to print in 45° angle to get out the smoothest? and at best at ~115mm/s (when it has sharp corners?)

[faint shuttle]

the fibration was with gt2 and the cnc beam

interessting... this was with 2020 and gt3

Looking better in terms of "belts" but not in the "cross"

but the first graph was with 24V i heard that 48 is smoother anyways

so may i wanna swap back to the cnc beam wit the gt2 belts and test at 48V but before assembly the toolhead i trow the adxl directly to the mgn12h somehow and try to test directly at the carrier XD may @astral dock can help me answer my questions, and maybe i find something out about the resonance without toolhead 😛

but now i go to bed its 0:00 in germany so sleeping is a good idea 🙂 but i will watch the whole youtube from reth and look in a little bit more to finally test, assemble and finish the printer, ordered a adxl with a bigger pcb and mountingholes and 2 new y rails with z2 preload may it do the trick... if not i know the rails are good... and then i have so much parts laying around i can build 2 more printers when the trident is finally done XDDD learned a lot and while larning i hoard parts for the next projects 😛

[astral dock]

linear rail with only x-carriage should have a spike at 125hz

[faint shuttle]

But how can i reduce it?

Whats your opinion on the other stuff i wrode? I am interested 😊👍️

[faint shuttle]

On the Y spike you mean?

Y graph*

[astral dock]

If you are using steathburner and awd - stop
Switch to Xol, dragon burner, or other toolhead

Other option is to try 2hump

If you have tried ei already

[faint shuttle]

Already on XOL 👍️

[astral dock]

If printing abs you can print in the 100+ green range for ext perimeters

[faint shuttle]

Mhm than i have ghosting but with more clearance between the pattern

[astral dock]

print this at your standard profile with input shaper on.
If you have ghosting it will show

you only need about 5-10mm you can you a negative modifier to cut out the upper part of the model

[faint shuttle]

But to my questions in short.

1. In general less power spectral density means less energy the spike has so "ridgider"?

2. On te fibration profile printing on 62mm/s and in 45 degrees would result in smoother finish than 62mm\s on 0 degrees? Or how i read rhe polar energy profile? With sharp corners as i understand printing at 45° would be better?

Tomorrow i will change back to cnc x beam since it was "better" try the gt2 belts and throw the adxl on the rail before printing 😉 or throw it on the 2020 and than install back the cnc to see if theres any difference to find out about the second Y spike.... i think i gonna register my trident when its finished and join the unicorn club 🤣😜 i wanna understand how it works and which values are what, cause if you know you know.... and fixing gets a lot easier 🤟 and than the ringing tower but o couldnt understand how it should ghosting with 18k, an XOL, 62mm external and when i am at a scv of 5 ( 3. Question would be... you said 1 scv for 1000 accel... so at 18000 accel shouldn i tipe in an scv of 18?

@astral dock

[astral dock]

1. less PSD does not mean a more rigid system. More likely it means that something is damping the system. Ideally you would have a single spike (impulse) going to infinity. For us somewhere in the e4 range is fine
2. on a core xy printing on the 45 and 135 angles should result in a better print because only one motor is going. In actuality each of the angles 0, 45, 90, 135 have their own vibrations from the motors, and you can set the speed in the slicer to avoid all the bad speeds.

[faint shuttle]

@astral dock tanks for the explaining, so i understand the polag angle energy profile right?

when i would print a cube with sharp corners it would be the best to print it like thakt

cause the violett parts are more "noice"

and why there are only the X or Y is mooving it is for sure smoother

[faint shuttle]

jop, spikes on about 100 without toolhead.... so the second spike is for sure something from my toolhead itself 🙂 niche, slowly i am getting it

[astral dock]

Yes that is the correct orientation, but not for the reasons you have

[faint shuttle]

but for what reason?

[faint shuttle]

its smoother becausie only the X or Y belt is moofing

or sorry

the A or B belt

[astral dock]

Yes only a and b belt move

[faint shuttle]

but X is B and Y is A in this case

XD

[astral dock]

no

that is how they are label in klipper for the motion system

[faint shuttle]

x stepper is front left and x1 back right

[astral dock]

in practice they are a and b

[faint shuttle]

so only X steppers move

thats what i mean

we mean the same 🙂

[astral dock]

remove the term x-stepper and y-stepper. Those are labels in klipper.
The motion of x is actually a motor and b motor

[faint shuttle]

jep 🙂

[faint shuttle]

so only a steppers move or b steppers

[astral dock]

yes

[faint shuttle]

and cause i have enormous 350mm i can print at angle 😛

so now i dive in to your belt tension video because it seems no one has a clue how much 9mm gt2 or gt3 belts should really tightend

[faint shuttle]

mhm

Vitalii 9mm AWD – 9mm Belts what 9mm belts XD

[astral dock]

https://discord.com/channels/460117602945990666/1401035435026939995

[faint shuttle]

he has 20scv too... so may speed that up a little i guess? you said for 1k accel 1 scv

gt3´s are heavy

atm i used mammoths page

https://docs.mammoth-3d.ch/mammoth_gantry/belt_tension/belt_tension/#for-example

it says 17lbf for gt3´s wich is 225 hz... and for gt2´s its 150 which feels more good + i have the problem when going that hight, i can´t manually sync the steppers anymore and the motorsync starts at 70k or something and takes ages to go under a 1000

[faint shuttle]

the pictures are very pixled, what was the result at the end?

[astral dock]

Leave that up to the person. Testing not done as there is no conclusion:)

[faint shuttle]

ah oke... but i think i am going with the gt2´s and play a little... cause as mammoth´s site says... 225hz up... i think it will kill my idlers long term XD but i watch your youtubevideo and may i can somehow calculate it

[astral dock]

I would say 15lbs is probably a good place to start

[faint shuttle]

For the gt3's thats 225 hz, which makes it incredibly hard to sync the steppers manuallyy

[astral dock]

Motor sync

There is a macro

https://github.com/MRX8024/motors-sync/blob/main/wiki/EN.md

[faint shuttle]

I know there is a macro.. problem is that when the gt3 belts are at 225hz the pulleys are pressed so hard on the steppers that i can't sync them manually anymore and they start sometimes at about 70k amplitude... it takes very very long to come down do 1k and the belts aren't syned then anymore... wondering whats the trick here do do it better

[slate gale]

Im sure on the Monolith Discord server u will get better help with awd and tension + sync

Here its rare. On monolith it is normal

[faint shuttle]

@astral dock in this vid at 24:00 you said ls printguide makes a vid of vfa´s and you link it.. theres no link 😛 did u have it?

ah no i see ellis print guide you mean

[faint shuttle]

hey @astral dock diggin really deep into the motion stuff right now.. and i am really happy about the graphs expet the polar angle enrgy profile... is there a way to improve?

0.1 vibration on Y at EI 🙂 nearly there 😛

[astral dock]

There is no way to improve polar energy directly . It is basically the difference in your an and b belt path.

Not sure you can measure it accurately but 16 lbs is a good tension. 24 lbs will likely be to much

[mild crow]

Is it lbs or newtons? Trying to learn proper terminology

[astral dock]

Pounds

Newton=kg*m/s^2

If you are watching my video I misspoke

[faint shuttle]

But why it looks not like a quare cross? I hitting 100% before? What causes this not straight cross pattern?

Or this how you call it butterfly pattern

[astral dock]

The motors cause the non-square cross is the motor paths around the angles of movement for a and b axis

I do call this a butterfly pattern

[faint shuttle]

But then the belts are not synced right i guess

[astral dock]

I do not know.

it can be like regular belts where the slightest different in belt length will show up, or it can be motor sync

Do you sync motors before each run?

[faint shuttle]

Jop synced before

[faint shuttle]

but they wheremt synced anymore.. i guess its getting hot now, now they are back on 100% again and the polar angle energy is 100%, but back to my SQV question in your video you mention that a good rool of thumb is 1 SCV for 1000 ACCEL, i set it to 20000 now, so SCV to 20?

latest stats

even Y sais 22k i would go with 20K

[slate gale]

Generally yes
But u have to test if 20 is fine for yourself

Also note SCV impacts PA. So u have to tune PA with the SCV u print outer walls with

[faint shuttle]

whats a common SCV value? or what changes? to look if its fine to me?

[slate gale]

Orca default of the Voron profile is what i consider “default”

But u have AWD, which is made for speed, so this default doesnt apply to u.
Print something with 20 and see if u are happy

If not, reduce it 😉

[mild crow]

WOW Amazing results for 350 afaik. Can you please share what belts do you use and what tension do you use?

[faint shuttle]

i use about 180 hz and epdm gt2 belts

but i get ringing as hell XD

Printed at 45°

Couldn't be normal.... thats so bad, mechanically everything is good as the graphs show

[slate gale]

How fast did u print that in mm/s and accel?

[faint shuttle]

20K accel, first with 60mm/s and the pic is at 125mm/sec only difference is that the ripples are further away from each other when printing faster..

or slower even with 60mm its not that beautiful

[slate gale]

Print it again with 200

Verify in the slicer gcode preview its hitting 200

[faint shuttle]

how can i see if inputshaper is generally working? i printed the part without IS and it looks almost the same XD

[faint shuttle]

now to te 200mm/s one but somehow i have the feeling that IS does nothing on my machine XD

same @slate gale only further apart XD

This is 60.(

Only thing that changes that they are further apart

[astral dock]

Rerun input shaper, but make sure to put 20 in for scv. You will have to use the drop down menu

[faint shuttle]

they where al printed with 5

and SCV 5

20 would be more ringing i guess but somehow no matter what i do i have ringing... i can´t find my fail.... makes me crazy...

[astral dock]

That looks like belt induced vfa

What tension you running on this?

[faint shuttle]

about 180hz

[astral dock]

What is that in lbs?

[faint shuttle]

170-180

7.5 to 7.8

[astral dock]

Try 12 lbs

[faint shuttle]

but wouldn´t fa´s been everywhere?

[astral dock]

Is everything double sheared?

[faint shuttle]

jop

but when it would been VFA´s wouldn they all across?

[faint shuttle]

its mostly after corners and the faster i print the further are they apart

[astral dock]

awd throw my charts out the window.
they need more tension

I do not have a siboor kit to test tension on, but for other awd systems I have tested they need more tension

[faint shuttle]

so you guess is that they are vfa´s from to less tension

[astral dock]

to find the optimal tension what you need to do is tighten the belts another pound or two, then run belts, get them even in belts, then run input shaper

you are going to keep doing this until the acceleration no longer increases

my guess is it is in the range of 10-16 lbs.

however, you need to be careful as shit can break

hang on let me make you a video

[faint shuttle]

why must it be belts... thats such pain to get them synced especially with that high tension XD

but than why its only after corners and further a part when printing faster and why my cube without IS looks nearly identical XD

i am back in 40 minutes have to pick somebody up

[astral dock]

I forgot to add that I motor sync before re-running belts

The motor sync appears to help also move tension around

[faint shuttle]

Oh wow so much printers ❤️

So i got the biqu tensioner too

Im at 180hz at 150mm

[astral dock]

that is around 3.8 lb

[faint shuttle]

I downgradet from gt3s to gt2 epdms because the lbs i would need aaare rediculous high

No thats 7.5lbs

[astral dock]

you want to be around 240-260 hz

[faint shuttle]

I try.... but thats a lot🤣

Like you said i am worriing about the bearings

But i will try when i am back home

Only thing that changes that they are further apart

[faint shuttle]

so @astral dock in terms of your youtube video + exel sheet, 12lbf would be about 224,19HZ which is a multiplier of 2.0

[astral dock]

Try it

[faint shuttle]

which makes me wondering.... cause normal vorons are at 0.5 (6mm belts 2lb) and vz bot has 1.5 (6mm 6lb )

at first i am going up to 10 now

10lbf

[astral dock]

This is where you are going to have to do some experiments

[faint shuttle]

mhm the syncing takes ages

thats the worst

[astral dock]

You are using the app correct?

[faint shuttle]

to get the belts tentioned equal is no big deal but to manually sync the pully is a pain

[astral dock]

Use the app.

[faint shuttle]

if not done correctly the motorsync starts at 50k or something

[astral dock]

Manually sync once, the. App

[faint shuttle]

which app

[astral dock]

Sorry macro

[faint shuttle]

i know but manually syncinc on 224hz is pain cause the pulleys are pressed against the shaft XD so not really any free "spinning syncing with tension" here

[astral dock]

Also with higher tensions, the manual method becomes less reliable as the pulley, even loose is being pulled onto the motor shaft

[faint shuttle]

on 150 i put steppers in full step, loosen the front pulleys tighten them and ready to go.. but everything above gets difficult

[astral dock]

I do it once say at 2.0 on pf meter, then only use the motor sync macro

[faint shuttle]

wats a motor sung macro? motorsync?

ah 🙂

[astral dock]

Please excuse my fat finger typing

[faint shuttle]

so now lets go up to 10lbf

at first 🙂

Best macro i ever made: 🤣

Moves the x exactly to 150mm and dissables steppers 🤣

[slate gale]

Considering the latest graphs #1362813015786786996 message and the accel they show as well as no ringing, just VFAs and how long and far we came, i will say we draw a line here once the latest test u are doing is done 🙂

after all this is for basic help, as the channel states #1308016330326413393 . We cant do or help much with VFAs, its a finding the right speed range. no help needed honestly, it takes a few printes to dial in 🙂 this post has 1285 messages, so we definitely put in some work here 😉

[faint shuttle]

and where is the resonance_advanced_help? XD i mean vfa is still a kind of resonance, but i am concerned that that works... the belts are stiff as dead

[astral dock]

For now lets keep this open. @slate gale and I need to consult the admins to determine the limits of awd support

[faint shuttle]

or make a section for it.. as its more common, or a knowledge base or something

[astral dock]

This is all sidenotes to your issue, but voron does not design awd system.

it should be the responsability of the awd designer/seller to support the mods.

however, that does not appear to be happending, with the expection of monolith

Thus, @slate gale and I are attempting to fill the void

Thus, we have reached out to admin's to ask for direction on this matter.

I need to attend to personal matters. Will be back later in the day

[faint shuttle]

with trouble comes wisdom.... if i would have known that its that hard to get it right, and siboor has nearly zero support while build kits that don´t really work i wouldn´t have bought it

nice that they trown out a 300 page build manual and all they say about dialing in is:: normal is 110HZ but since its double sheared 150 is oke... end XD

oh looking promisin

tension of about 10lbs

to @astral dock and @slate gale what has to be say is thank you very much for your support, i guess without you i have thrown that thing out of the window about 20000k accel and 200mm/s XD but i promise i will help when my printer works, i am one of the preorderers and since over a year i try to get it to work, i learned so much on that way and already slowly setting up a github, and when the build is finish i will make an guide to help others to take the shortcut and you not have to write in 10 treads about the same stuff... literally everybody with the siboor kit has the same issue.... Xbeam, Stealtburner and belts...

@slate gale 🥳 🥳 0.0 vibrations on ei 😛

the second Y is the missing arm for cables..

[faint shuttle]

enough to test

[astral dock]

Yes, I would send another test

[faint shuttle]

already done

[astral dock]

are you printing abs or pla

[faint shuttle]

looking same bad a little bit bader than on 180

pla atm

for test purposes XD

[astral dock]

limit accel to 10k

what speed are you using

[faint shuttle]

125mm/s 20K

[astral dock]

okay, can you post the pictures of the test once done

20k may be to fast for the cooling on stealthburner

[faint shuttle]

is XOL

[astral dock]

xol may not have the cooling to keep up with 20k

🙂

the little fans can only do so much

[faint shuttle]

printed it already

it was 20k the last 10 tries 🙂

[faint shuttle]

last atempt for today

@225 HZ about 12 lnf

lbf

[mild crow]

Crazy numbers.

[faint shuttle]

piu

[bold plover]

How are you getting those numbers holy

[faint shuttle]

seams i do something right? XD

[bold plover]

Are you running live idlers?

Or stock siboor CNC kit?

[faint shuttle]

what are life idlers?

running the siboor teeth idlers, bearings from siboor only the pulleys are from gates

[bold plover]

So… your are getting better numbers than me, but far worse VFAs

[faint shuttle]

jop

[mild crow]

So much conversations about live idlers vs idlers with included bearings, but at the end everything seems fine

[bold plover]

I’ll be testing live idlers xy joints later next week

[faint shuttle]

what are live idlers

[bold plover]

Idlers press fitted into a solid aluminum shaft (did I say it right @mild crow ?)

[mild crow]

Yeah, but main idea to offload radial force to bigger bearigns

[slate gale]

Bigger bearing is the deal here

[bold plover]

I really really wonder how are you getting those numbers 🤔

I mean they’re among the best I’ve ever seen

[slate gale]

If i read correctly, the user changed belts to GT2

[bold plover]

But GT3 should be better as they’re more rigid I guess?

[faint shuttle]

thank you very much does sound good after a jear of tweeking

[slate gale]

Yes and no

[mild crow]

@slate gale more I think about it - siboor set has toothed idlers not only on XY but on front mounts as well

[slate gale]

Yes they are
No they need higher tension to be equally good as Gt2

[faint shuttle]

problem with the gt3´s are that the tension they need do be propper tightend are that high that´s not good

[slate gale]

People really dont believe how much tension u really have to apply
Especially it being 9mm GT3

[mild crow]

@faint shuttle do you have any additional frame reinforcements?

[slate gale]

Personally i like the monolith approach more in their AWD design.

[bold plover]

But the problem would be at the CNC xy joints, everything else on the siboor kit is double sheared

[faint shuttle]

mhm i was in the preorder so i have the backers 🙂

[slate gale]

Nah, the joints are no issue

[mild crow]

Can you share picture of front mount?

[bold plover]

Yup

[faint shuttle]

and i intalled some parts

[slate gale]

I ran 230hz on my trident with alutrident 2WD https://github.com/3DPrintingMods/VoronTrident-AluminumG
using Vitalis double shear mounts

Now i applied 270hz on 2WD monolith printed also with vitalis shear mod. But i dont have time currently to work on it

150mm of course regarding the hertz

[mild crow]

Oh, i see

Thanks

[bold plover]

What did you wanted to see?

[mild crow]

How belts are routed at the front

And you are right, all good

[bold plover]

Im moving to monolith when he releases those sweet sweet CNC kits

[bold plover]

Unless the xy joints from you solve my problems lol

[mild crow]

I am surprised that numbers here are higher than most of builds I saw on Monolith discord

[bold plover]

Yeah that’s insane

[mild crow]

And for most of them they use less than 350mm and no one is using 2020 without reinforcements there

[faint shuttle]

its not a 2020 XD

[mild crow]

Oooooooooooh

Please teach me

[faint shuttle]

its one of those "wobbly" cnc carriages XD

but gives me better results

[mild crow]

So what is your frame?

[mild crow]

Which one? 🙂

[bold plover]

OOOH so you are running a heavily modified siboor kit

[faint shuttle]

my beta github XD

https://github.com/Kamseder/Siboor-Trident-AWD-350mm/blob/main/Mods.md

[faint shuttle]

no.. different xbeam xol and gt2 epdm belts, gates pulleys and custom rails

and corner brackets

[mild crow]

Still not sure what is your frame

[bold plover]

But the same 2020 extrusions

[faint shuttle]

may be for stiffness, since they are only couple bucks i trow them in

[mild crow]

After reading list

[faint shuttle]

sibor kit

[bold plover]

Yeah, 2020 extrusions then

[mild crow]

So 2020

[faint shuttle]

jop

but with the backers

[bold plover]

You changed the linear rail as well didn’t you

[mild crow]

4x from siboor kit?

[bold plover]

And I think he bought another ones from Ali

[faint shuttle]

mhm i bought the "hiwin" kit from siboor which abolutely where crap

[bold plover]

Yeah same

[faint shuttle]

and than i bought the youmethongs from ali, and a load of bearing balls and mix and match XD

so i esentially got "hiwins" fittet with youemthong bearings

[bold plover]

May I see your front/back mounts?

[faint shuttle]

what do you mean? stepper mounts?

[astral dock]

@faint shuttle can you provide updated pictures for your printer please

[faint shuttle]

Sure 🤣 still try to print good.... 🤣

Best graphs worst print

[astral dock]

Did you slow it down to 10k

[faint shuttle]

Not jet

[bold plover]

Print galvanics

https://www.printables.com/model/978123-voron-bowden-ptfe-tube-guide-arm-and-canbus-cable short arm

[faint shuttle]

i know XD

[astral dock]

So what I have found, is a few things, and I could be wrong

1. your side fans will not work correctly as the toolhead is not setup to direct the air to the part
2. pla without better cooling (I.e server fans or Cpap) can’t handle much over 10k on overhangs.
3. speeds over around 150-200 mm/s don;t print well
4. accels over 30k forget about it looking nice based upon toolhead cooling

[faint shuttle]

but to print i would love to see something nice 🙂 without dead ringing

[faint shuttle]

1. never used that big side fan

2. i have cpap already here

[bold plover]

I disagree with the 4th point, in the Argentina channel they have 60k without cpap and doing nice

[faint shuttle]

BUT the main problem stays XD

i even have ringing at about 2000k upwards

[astral dock]

can you provide link

[faint shuttle]

or VFA´s but i am sure its ringing causei ts only after corners

and than gets less

or my exturder

cause its not a wave, its a smal and bigger getting extrusion

[bold plover]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/st8525stF64begq

Their X peak is at a mind boggling 600hz

[astral dock]

Sorry, those previous numbers where wrong here are the correct ones:

[astral dock]

not found

[bold plover]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/st8525stF64begqY9

[astral dock]

This is a vz bot not a voron

[faint shuttle]

guys.. cpap is already laying around as 1000 other hardware stuff XD

but to install all this stuff i need to print stuff and since its ringing vfa´s of doom its hard to upgrade, i am happy that the xol came out in some way even if i am not happy Xd

[slate gale]

And this is with CPAP……..

[bold plover]

Oh sorry? I thought it was a legacy or trident

[slate gale]

Of course cooling is good

[slate gale]

Its pretty clear, isnt it😉

[bold plover]

Yeah towards the end, but he was running it without cpap at lower velocities (broke cpap) and it was still fine at 60k

[bold plover]

I actually thought it was the name of the printer

Like mine it’s Y2K38 lol

[slate gale]

“Vzbot” thats not a printer name

Thats like Voron

[bold plover]

Feeling kind of silly rn

I joined this world about a month ago so I’m pretty new

[faint shuttle]

everyone starts somewhere

[faint shuttle]

so guys after i tighten the pulleys to hard i wasn´t able to sync anymore so i put the front motors out and sandet them a little, and now i go to bed, but 225 hz i get very very nice charts, so i print than later 🙂 but tomorrow i guess i have no time and than i am on vacation till next week... but i will fight trough till there is no more is issues 🙂

[faint shuttle]

hey @astral dock i am back to tuning, you said go up in tension it long it coes more accel.... what if i go down in accel but also lowers damping? still keep going?

[faint shuttle]

@200 HZ, is there a way to just let it sweep at 75HZ to visualy find oout what that z peek is? i have 3 different Y rails here, maybe swa?

swap?

[bold plover]

did you change your belts / xy joints?

[faint shuttle]

from last test too now?

no

just 200 HZ not 230 or 205

[bold plover]

are you using the stock ones?

[faint shuttle]

no as sayd, the belts joints are the same

the belts are gt´s epdm at the moment

[bold plover]

and joints?

[faint shuttle]

gt2 epdm

joints are sioor kit

[bold plover]

😮

the joints are holding up just fine?

[faint shuttle]

there was it 🙂

[faint shuttle]

why shouln´t they

[bold plover]

big belt tension

big bent

[faint shuttle]

everything CNC machined

[bold plover]

yeah i know, but they could die as well as the tubes are hollow

[faint shuttle]

200hz isnßt that much

[faint shuttle]

than i cnc machine some out off steel XD

[bold plover]

oh they're not the stock siboor kit then

[faint shuttle]

but for real, 200hz´s doesnt feel that much if you play with the belt

[faint shuttle]

they are

but if they would fail i would machine new one

[bold plover]

i see

[faint shuttle]

its about 2-3mm thick alu

the original ones

[bold plover]

do you have some charts with the old gt3 belts?

[faint shuttle]

sure they are hollow, but i guess they will bent with 400hz or something when not more

[faint shuttle]

not really XD

never get it to work perfectly, and i don´t wanna krank th gt3´s up to the needet frequency... thats a lot of torque XD

[bold plover]

i see

that's fine

[faint shuttle]

seems way to high, not even the guys on VZ, on mammoth 3d or Monolith use gt3´s

[astral dock]

I would say do a test print. If you are happy stop

[faint shuttle]

Oke thanks. @astral dock second question... that 75hz z peak, could it be the Y rails moving rattling? Or is it the umbrellical?

[faint shuttle]

What us where ut wants to be 🤣 the tool or what?

What is where it wants to be?

[astral dock]

Toolhead=125
Where it wants to be=75

[faint shuttle]

Explain please 🙈

[faint shuttle]

XOL

Mhm no my testprint looks horrible 🤣🙈 only think thats left is steppers and tmc's

[steady flume]

Could you solve those?
I am fighting the same kind of belt VFA as it looks to me, but can’t find a spot where they are induced.

[faint shuttle]

No not really, new steppers are on its way to me, and a slab to put the printer on... but since so many have problems i belive its something printer related 🫣 but i am at it... steppers are the last thing that i. Don't change since i bought it

[steady flume]

Also changed belts, rails and pulleys+idlers in my machine along with the x beam to a 2020, rebuilt the gantry a few times, even designed printed tubes to help align the Alu tubes on which the bearing stacks/idlers are sitting as I thought I just misaligned those somehow. But all not helping. I am already thinking about throwing out the cnc parts from Siboor for some others but have to start looking now on what to get, as I want to reuse the motors if possible and the belts + keep awd 😅

[faint shuttle]

Mhm my guess is now steppers.... changed everything too, and have some new things i can try 😊👍 i keep you updated