#Lily's build log: Formbot Voron Trident 300mm

1871 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

icy pine
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katapult to the m8p?

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or like

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what are you saying

hollow oasis
icy pine
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gotcha

hollow oasis
icy pine
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not the m8p one you just sent?

hollow oasis
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That page just has the M8P specific details you’ll need to follow the instructions on the Mainboard Flashing page

icy pine
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I see.

hollow oasis
icy pine
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yeah I got that bit

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I do the button shenanigans after it's already on?

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What displays that grey bios looking screen, the ssh?

hollow oasis
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Yes, you do the button shenanigans while it’s on

icy pine
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k

hollow oasis
icy pine
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ah

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So basically I just follow the mainboard flashing guide up until it tells me to boot into DFU or whatever, then check the BTT page for specifics?

hollow oasis
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Should all be cut and paste from his code blocks

icy pine
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gotcha

hollow oasis
icy pine
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I understand now

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Probably a silly q but "connect mainboard to pi" is redundant when it's literally a cm, right? xD

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First try :>

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yippe

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okay so it says to add the UUID to the mcu section of my printer.cfg, is that referring to the serial field that I set as something else earlier?

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Nvm, got it figured out

icy pine
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Got katapult and klipper installed on my mainboard and toolboard for CANbus stuff :D

hollow oasis
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You'll want these settings to setup your accelerometer for input shaping ```
[adxl345]
cs_pin: EBBCan:gpio1
spi_software_sclk_pin: EBBCan:gpio2
spi_software_mosi_pin: EBBCan:gpio0
spi_software_miso_pin: EBBCan:gpio3
axes_map: z,-y,x

[resonance_tester]
accel_chip: adxl345
probe_points:
150, 150, 10
accel_per_hz: 100
sweeping_accel: 400
sweeping_period: 0```

icy pine
icy pine
hollow oasis
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You might have noted that I run my 60mm skirt fans at 50%. 50% is more than enough airflow from those fans formbot supplied, and the noise is reasonable. Plus as a bonus, if you printer halts due to an error condition (or you hitting the emergency stop button in Mainsail or on the touchscreen) it will ramp those fans to 100% and that WILL get your attention.

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Alright I'm out for the night. I think you'll be up and running soon. Have fun!

icy pine
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Okay so how do I set my caselight to 0 by default on startup

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Because every time I restart klipper, it's just

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At least I can use it at 10% with the room lights off lol

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Also for some reason z2 arbitrarily had its dir pin inverted in the example cfg so it ended up being in reverse from the other two, should have seen that coming but eh

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(Doing motor buzz tests right now)

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Both B and A motors turn left first, I'm not doing direction testing right now but that seems promising

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My endstops seem to be triggering correctly

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:D

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I just triggered em with my finger (or lifted the toolhead in the Z endstop's case, since it's TAP)

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ngl I did that before even reading the next step, and that's what it says to do after testing the first one lol

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"toolhead should move up slightly"
bed moves downwards

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This is for a v2 isn't it

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I guess like

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In relative terms, the toolhead did move up compared to the bed

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lmao

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Alright, neither of the G28 commands produced any concerning results

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They both simply moved the bed down and then pressed the relative endstops

halcyon cloud
icy pine
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Yeah, thought so

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None of my motor DIR pins had to be inverted and they all go the correct way :>

halcyon cloud
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das gud

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always nice that it moves in the right direction :p

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also make shure extruder moves in the right direction too

icy pine
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Oh right

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I should do that shouldn't I

halcyon cloud
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definetly a good idea, part of initial calibration anyways

icy pine
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I don't know how I would tell lol

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can't really see in there

halcyon cloud
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well when plastic doesnt come out when it should you figure it out rather quickly :p

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but it does come out when you tell it to retract

icy pine
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I see

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I guess the best I can do is wait for filament and see what happens during a motor buzz

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I can hear it going at least

halcyon cloud
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yea fair

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having filament does definetly help!

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exited to see the cereal btw!

icy pine
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ye c:

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I'm still clueless on how I'm supposed to work this tap as a Z endstop

halcyon cloud
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about which part?

icy pine
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I'll keep reading the guide, I'm sure I just didn't read enough lol

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I also accidentally hit the home all button and just about shit myself, thank god for the e stop button

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xD

halcyon cloud
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the best button

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virtual end stops do just work

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when i configured it for my v2 i was also like okay shure ig it works

icy pine
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lol

halcyon cloud
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like its just 1 line and thats it

icy pine
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This motor sounded like it was trying to kill itself even after hitting the endstop, I had to hit the "stop engine" icon in mainsail 😭

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Idk why they do that sometimes

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Lemme check my cfg I guess

halcyon cloud
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always a good idea

icy pine
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It knows it's the Y stopper so idk why it's doing that

halcyon cloud
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do remember motors sound like they want to die at certain speeds

icy pine
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It was sitting still in the corner

halcyon cloud
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ah yea thats a issue then

icy pine
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Idk why though

halcyon cloud
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i unno why though but thats able to be figured out :p

icy pine
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I have to send M84 just for it to stop making that sound, smh

halcyon cloud
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did it say it was homed?

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because kinda sounds like it isnt recognising it

icy pine
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I don't think it is

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What would cause that?

halcyon cloud
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i didnt hear anythin strange

icy pine
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It keeps humming until I hit the stop engine button

halcyon cloud
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hmms does it still happen when you move it slightly away?

icy pine
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What do you mean?

halcyon cloud
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as in move the printhead forward a bit once its homed

icy pine
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Hmm

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I physically cannot move the toolhead

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When it's doing that

halcyon cloud
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thats somethin

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does it say its homed?

icy pine
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Where would it say that

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The fact that I'm asking probably means the answer is no

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Also how do I move the bed up, because every time I home X Y it moves it down more lol

halcyon cloud
icy pine
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I have no clue

halcyon cloud
icy pine
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Either I can and it's fine or I'll break something

halcyon cloud
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its the safe way

icy pine
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fun

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yea

halcyon cloud
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if ya press the motor disable button it will depower the motors

icy pine
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Uhuh

halcyon cloud
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and then you can manualy turn the leadscrews

icy pine
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I see

halcyon cloud
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printer does need to be on because backfeeding can destroy things

icy pine
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Is that humming sound just the motors being powered?

halcyon cloud
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cant exactly say ive heard it with my printer but does it also happen when its just in a random position?

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not sayin its a bad thing necicerily btw

icy pine
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That humming might just be what it sounds like when it's making sure nothing will move, idk

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X 290 and X 270 no hum, but 300 and 280 do hum

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Talking absolute position

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very strange

halcyon cloud
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that does mean its homing though

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if it knows its x,y position

icy pine
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Also when homing, the X axis moves out of range by literally .1 lol

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Sometimes

halcyon cloud
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ah yes makes sense though

icy pine
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Now it's homed and there's no humming, both are at 300

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Okay it's good now, magically

halcyon cloud
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noice ig :p

icy pine
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0,0 position seems good

halcyon cloud
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that helps!

icy pine
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It's not over the corner but that makes sense, the bed is larger than 30cm by 0.5cm in both directions

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Makes sense

halcyon cloud
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yea

icy pine
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305mm

halcyon cloud
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do remember you can increase the total size of the printer if you have a bit more total movement

icy pine
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I'd rather keep it safe

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But uh, 300,300 is right on the corner, so

halcyon cloud
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yea works

icy pine
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The endstops make it that way I guess

halcyon cloud
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for my v2 i can move the y axis like 305mm :p

icy pine
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Hmm

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I guess this works

halcyon cloud
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and thats the part that matters :p

icy pine
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So I did run home all again just to see

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And it does appear to be stopping

halcyon cloud
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that helps

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you would notice if it skips steps

icy pine
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When it hits the endstop it says Z is at 10

halcyon cloud
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is it actualy at 10?

icy pine
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I think I set something in the cfg

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To make it offset by 10

halcyon cloud
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yea its a config thing

icy pine
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I just set that arbitrarily though

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Should I remove it?

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Also I do not get why X keeps homing itself at 300.01

halcyon cloud
icy pine
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Right

halcyon cloud
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(as in touching it)

icy pine
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It's kind of annoying tbh

halcyon cloud
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you can just increase position_max by a tiny bit to make it not complain about it

icy pine
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Increase stepper x max by .01?

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It's not complaining, I just find it annoying

halcyon cloud
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yea

icy pine
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Oh you mean when trying to move it back

halcyon cloud
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oh fair

icy pine
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WIth the steps

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yeah if I move it -10 and then +10 it says I can't lol

halcyon cloud
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usualy when it goes over its max position it errors out thought that was happenin to ya :p

icy pine
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yeah

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It only does that if I'm using the whole number steps and I try to send it back to its home

halcyon cloud
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oh yea fair

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just increasing the position max by a tiny bit will solve that

icy pine
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There, I set my default lightbar value to 0 instead of 1

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No more burning eyes

halcyon cloud
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das gud :p

icy pine
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Should I be doing PID stuff without the printer being enclosed yet?

halcyon cloud
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should be fine if you do it at the temps you are planning to run yea]

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and it if isnt you can always repeat :p

icy pine
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Also chances are my weird 300.01 thing could be from my belts not being tuned yet lol

halcyon cloud
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maybe or maybe not

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never checked if it happens with my v2 :p

icy pine
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Bed heater goin up to 100C

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yippee

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..Went to turn the caselight on and realized it has to finish with the bed stuff first lmao

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gettin toasty

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Dang I didn't know the logo got rgb

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Sick

halcyon cloud
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yea it do be

icy pine
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lol, lmao

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happened after a basic restart command

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Also which fan is the "part cooling fan" supposed to be

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The top one?

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The guide is saying "part cooling fans" (plural) but I think it's talking about a v2 so idk

halcyon cloud
halcyon cloud
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probably just cause some toolheads do have multiple

icy pine
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wha

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Okay, so it's the little blower fan at the top of the stealthburner that's supposed to come on when I tell it to start the part cooling fan?

halcyon cloud
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yup

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the bottom fan is the heatbreak cooling fan

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should come on when you turn the hotend up to any temp

icy pine
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Yea

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It just did since I set it to 245

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Just making sure I didn't do something stupid during config

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wat.

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Guess I'll paste the values manually

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Dang this hotend really barely clears the front leadscrews at the maximum X values

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lol

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I guess the best I can do to describe the sound I'm hearing is just motor whine

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The pitch changes depending on what position I'm telling them to hold

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Ah yes, unknown command "Z_ENDSTOP_CALIBRATE"

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idk how much of this I actually have to do since it all seems to be for actual probes

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Gonna call it a night here thoughh

unkempt hollow
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My guess is it's the microstepping

stark copper
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I'm having issues with connecting to wifi. How did you get yours to connect?

bleak pilot
# icy pine

As a FYI, if you have values you are trying to save outside of printer.cfg, then klipper will complain as it only adds save_config and will edit printer.cfg. My solution was to move the [extruder] PID section to printer.cfg but I left everything else in the tool head file.

bleak pilot
icy pine
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I guess that's why my bed one worked, because it happened to be commented out

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Or maybe not, idk

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I reread what you said and I think I get the problem now

icy pine
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I had to connect a keyboard to mine and go through debian's initial setup or whatever to actually connect it to WiFi, adding the SSID and password into that cfg file in the boot partition did literally nothing

stark copper
icy pine
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I used debian_minimal though so

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I am too dumb to know why this is failing

stark copper
icy pine
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There were some images on btt's Github (I think) that you're supposed to use the pi flasher to flash to the SD card and then plunk that into your Manta's SD card slot under the cb1 on the long side

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I think they provided a preconfigured image that has a root user/password set as "biqu"

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I used the one below that with "minimal" in the name and installed klipper and stuff to the cb1 manually

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When I plugged in the screen that came with my kit it was prompting me to log in with root and would not connect to the internet, hence the keyboard

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When I logged in with root it told me to change the root password and then put me through an initial setup that also involved scanning for networks, selecting the correct one, and adding the WiFi password

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I have no idea how to do that after the fact if you used a wired connection initially

bleak pilot
# icy pine

The goal is to measure the offset from when the probe triggers to where the nozzle rests in normal printing. I don’t have TAP myself but I think the printer homes, you run the command, and then raise up and down with the buttons until you get light drag on top of a piece of paper and then hit accept. I’d error on the side of too high so you don’t make a mark on the sheet on your first print.

icy pine
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I see

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I get it now, thank you

bleak pilot
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So without moving from the probe point klipper is angry.

icy pine
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Yeah I get that now lol

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I'm gonna use the receipt from my spade connectors since I have it handy lmao

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Define "light drag"

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Is it just like

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When you start to feel the nozzle through the paper as you're sliding it across the bed?

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I'm basically right at the point where I can feel the nozzle brush against the paper when I slide it

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@bleak pilot does this look about right?

bleak pilot
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I’d say send it. Better too high so you can step it down in the first print than too low and you leave a permanent impression in the sheet.

icy pine
bleak pilot
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Yeah, I don’t think you will damage anything.

icy pine
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Alright

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Man, mainsail won't connect now, smh

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Nvm

stark copper
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Was it still necessary to install these jumper?

icy pine
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The top two jumpers are for your toolhead fans, the one close to the switches is for the 120R pins that denote your toolboard as one end of the CAN network

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If you assembled the same kit as me, they are mandatory

icy pine
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Is this something I should click in mainsail or should I keep ignoring it lol

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using ssh doesn't show any updates available

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My two spools of polylite asa natural just arrived lol

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Not gonna use them to test extruding hot because this stuff wasn't cheap

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But I can test the gear distance properly now

bleak pilot
# icy pine

If you did them in the terminal, Mainsail may not have updated it's cache yet.

icy pine
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I did it from the terminal ages ago, probably before I even installed mainsail

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How do I refresh that?

bleak pilot
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Rotate button at the top of that list.

icy pine
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Ty, now it's just showing me moonraker is 1 version behind

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Cardboard spools are fine to use in drying, right?

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These polylite spools both came on one, so

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I also did stepper buzz on my extruder and found it was inverted (thanks default cfg, for inverting it for no reason) so I fixed that

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Also I definitely fucked up my backlash on my extruder and made it too loose, so that's gonna be fun to fix

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Well the guy in the video says "that's perfectly okay" but it's gonna bug me now so idk

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And by too loose I mean more play than the way he described the way he does his lol

icy pine
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Yeah I gotta take my stealthburner apart to make sure I didn't goof it now, might as well so I can double check the backlash

icy pine
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Think I got the filament squish and extruder/motor teeth tuned now c:

bleak pilot
dry saffron
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I wish there was ... more of a backlash about the difficulty of getting backlash adjusted?

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The MiniSB kinda fixed that.

icy pine
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It's a little annoying since you gotta manually shift that motor around but like

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The trick he showed in the video of using the allen key to jiggle the gear as a test really helped

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Way more easy to tell than with a finger

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Got my stealthburner reassembled

unkempt hollow
icy pine
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I figured as much, I don't imagine filament would come on one if the cardboard couldn't handle the temps that you're supposed to dry them at

dry saffron
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Well... the wild and whacky engineering filaments that you can't print on a Voron anyway sometimes do.

gloomy pewter
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Howd you get klipper to flash through katapult? Im having a weird connect and complete error

icy pine
halcyon cloud
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if ya need some more support probably best to ask in #klipper_kalico_discussion

gloomy pewter
#

Nevermind, we got it working👍

icy pine
gloomy pewter
icy pine
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Oh, lol

icy pine
#

Just tested my nevermore and only one fan is working right now, so that's fun

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Adjusted the wagos so hopefully it's just that

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Something physically blocks the fan when it's seated in the nevermore, I think it may be the wire

dry saffron
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I guess when it comes to blockages .... it's not a fan.

icy pine
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Anyways it was the wire and I fixed it

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Luckily I was only testing the nevermore for like a second at a time, would have sucked if I figured out this was happening after a print, or never(more)

icy pine
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Which of these peaks am I trying to align to 110, btw?

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I've just been doing it to the biggest one it's on right now but idk

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I know the guide says "lowest frequency" but that seems like a lot lol

stark copper
#

How tight did you tighten the lead screws? Did you have to install 2 more screw so they all have 4 screws each?

icy pine
icy pine
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I feel like this should be common sense or something but I am struggling to decide where I should be positioning this foam tape relative to the extrusions lol

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..Well this is concerning

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My belt ends are suddenly no longer aligned

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I didn't notice when this happened but I suspect it was while I was tightening the idlers, very strange

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Guess I'm uninstalling my toolhead again to fix it

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The top belt lost 2 teeth on the left

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Really wish I knew the cause so I know how to avoid it

gloomy pewter
icy pine
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Yeah I just don't get why

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Both belts slipped by two teeth but on opposite sides

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Top one dropped to 23 teeth on the left

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Also idk why my dumbass assumed the other side gained two

gloomy pewter
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it makes sense when you thinnk about how each tensioner relates to the belts

icy pine
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It's just that the bottom belt also slipped and I didn't count

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Turns out I didn't install the clips that go behind the tap

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Because the pdf I was following for tap assembly was for an older version :|

icy pine
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Turns out I'm just dumb and ignored the hexnut holes I knew were there while simultaneously wondering what the extra parts in the tap bag were for lmao

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This kit came with an exact amount of m3x8 bhcs though

icy pine
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Lmao.

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I've repeated it a few times but this is the first and only time I've seen it get 0 standard deviation lol

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Every other time just now was <0.001 though

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Well that's not great lol

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Strange that it's in the corner of the side that has a single motor though, isn't it?

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Maybe it is good, idk

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It's within .2 millimeters, just barely in that back right corner

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I guess that's a fairly large variance

halcyon cloud
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I mean that’s fine

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.2 is definetly within the normal range where a bed mesh can compensate

bleak pilot
icy pine
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Fun

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I'd need to wait for it to be in a permanent location anyways

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And one single corner within .2mm seems within margin

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The corner that's a little higher doesn't appear to be equal to the lower section either, so I don't think adjusting the left Y extrusion would fix that

bleak pilot
#

Ah, I did not see the total range in the image but in general the left side is up more than the right but the front is flattened out due to Z Tilt.

icy pine
#

Yeah, it's just that the example I saw shows the back left being just as high as the back right is low, which isn't the case here

icy pine
# icy pine

I even did probe_accuracy and re-homed/z tilt and ran a second mesh, this is the second one and it looks identical to the first

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Also the more I put this thing together, the more I wonder how you're supposed to pick up and move it lol

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The only remaining grips will be removed once the skirts are on, it feels like

hollow oasis
#

Print handles for it.

icy pine
#

I'll take a look at the voron mods page then

hollow oasis
icy pine
#

Yeah I saw the originals for the 2.4

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I'm also seeing internal spool holders which is crazy

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Probably gonna go for the sturdy handles mod on the top or somethin

dry saffron
#

Yah I broke the rule and built it up as an inverted electronics from the getgo.

icy pine
#

I love how the remix is literally just a logo addition lol

icy pine
#

"Surely it won't fall this time"

icy pine
#

My other filament arrived c:

icy pine
#

Might swap em around since I'll be using blue first for testing and I can feed it straight out of the dryer

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I'm seeing that drying temps for this and ABS are supposed to be 65°C, but the ABS profile on this dryer is set as 55 instead 🤔

torpid crescent
icy pine
#

I think painter's tape is fine and I'm just bad at attaching these panels properly lol

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Gonna make sure I do it right before I start testing with this blue filament

torpid crescent
#

Painters tape is the way of the new Voron builder.

icy pine
#

I can tell lol

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Thinking about what colours I wanna do my clips in when I get around to it

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Might do all the corners in accent and the sides in main 🤔

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Either that or all accent colour for simplicity's sake

icy pine
# icy pine

Reattached the side panel with a similar amount of tape

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Hmm

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This filament runout sensor doesn't actually seem to hold a Bowden tube on the other end, so it's kinda useless

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Cool.

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Well it kinda does, but eeeh

icy pine
#

I never configured the runout sensor so I don't have to touch that at least when I removed it lol

hollow oasis
icy pine
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'-'

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do I just remove it or

torpid crescent
icy pine
#

It generates a png that won't show in mainsail and can't be downloaded 🤔

torpid crescent
icy pine
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Maybe

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Yeah it was just bugged

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The png files were showing in the root config folder but a ctrl+f5 shows another folder called "Shaketune_results"

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I have no idea what I'm looking at :3

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The belt responses one is scary lmao

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forgor about sweeping period 0

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These are just tests for now anyway, I can fix that in the cfg later

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These look relatively okay 🤔

torpid crescent
#

Look pretty good to me

icy pine
#

Sweeping period is already 0 in this toolhead config let's go

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Tried to run the vibrations profile one and got this 🤔

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I love how "want to chase unicorns?" on the flow chart just leads back to the beginning

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Found a guide for input shaper on the secondary tuning page

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..Ah, looks like configuring this actually requires a print

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Also I ran these cold just as general testing, will try and run em with the printer heat soaked tomorrow maybe

torpid crescent
torpid crescent
icy pine
#

Won't those be incorrect since I ran the tests cold?

torpid crescent
#

Nah. I run all my tests cold.

icy pine
#

Ohokay

torpid crescent
#

In fact. Many many people do.

icy pine
#

🤔

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Fair enough

icy pine
torpid crescent
icy pine
#

gotcha

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So I'm basically ready for a test print then, not counting the slicer stuff I gotta figure out?

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plus taping on the front doors lol

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The timer on my dryer has about an hour left but the RH has been hovering at 15% basically since it started

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Regardless I'm gonna leave the slicer stuff for tomorrow

icy pine
# icy pine

Also still a bit worried about the "unable to determine it correctly" result on this one

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Wondering if maybe it's because my resonance_tester block is in a separate .cfg using the [include] thing instead of actually being in printer.cfg

torpid crescent
torpid crescent
icy pine
#

Ah

torpid crescent
#

It just makes pretty colors on the graph match the correct axis. But one can deduce the correct axis to color. Lol.

icy pine
#

🤔

torpid crescent
#

For instance in your graphs. Specifically the X one. The main peak is blue. Which is labeled as Z in the legend. But that main peak is actually X. So blue is X, green is Y, and red is Z. Super easy to figure out the real mapping.

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This doesn’t matter to input shaper calculations though.

icy pine
#

I see

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What does it matter to, then?

torpid crescent
#

You. If you care to have the lines on the graph match the legend anyways. I’m pretty sure axes map would be z, y, x if you so choose to correct it.

icy pine
#

It had z y x already in the config and shaketune was yelling at me to remove it

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But the y had a negative symbol

torpid crescent
#

It could’ve been the negative symbol. Or you have it defined twice. Or shake and tune doesn’t like it being defined. Who knows. Lol.

icy pine
#

shrug

torpid crescent
#

It won’t change any calculations though. So you’re good to ignore it if you’d like.

icy pine
#

Alright

dry saffron
# icy pine

Axes map doesn't work for a Trident, really. It's designed for the 2.4 where when you move Z it moves the gantry up and down.

icy pine
#

Alright, time for slicer stuff

#

Fun

#

I guess I should maybe take a look at ellis' tuning guide first

#

Right, I gotta mess with the extrusion distance

icy pine
#

well that's not ideal

#

Also I'm not seeing max_extrude_only_distance anywhere in my cfg

#

How do I like

#

Load filament into this thing lol

#

I feel like I'm missing a macro or two somehow

icy pine
#

Hmmst

#

Only took 1 adjustment to fix :>

#

The load/unload filament macros from here worked like a charm, didn't have to touch the values either

#

Extruding distance calibration complete

#

The brass brush that came with my kit also helped, I just ran the unload macro and then gave it a light brush to get rid of the plastic left over before I told it to cool off the hotend

icy pine
#

Strange, print_start didn't seem to turn on my nevermore even though I have it set to do so

#

And it was definitely running the macro because I saw the messages

#

I added a message into the cfg directly after the set pin command for the nevermore just to debug ig

#

Every single swatch had gaps except for the final one at -0.150 layer height so I guess I'm tinkering more lol

#

This might be fine though

icy pine
#

I keep getting this every time I try to print Ellis' pressure advance pattern gcode that's generated by the website

icy pine
icy pine
#

ngl I completely forgot about the last two shaketune tests lol

#

Gonna run those now

#

Vibrations profile was probably the most important lmao

icy pine
#

🤔

icy pine
#

wh

#

So this is basically unreadable

#

And it kinda banana'd a little

#

It's very slight but I assume that just means it wasn't hot enough in the chamber?

#

Gonna re-slice and run it again without arc fitting and maybe a better heat soak

#

..Could also be the part cooling fan, maybe

#

Lemme double check and make sure that's off

#

Yeah it was definitely that, the generic asa template had some wacky cooling settings

icy pine
#

Was about to mention bulging corners and then saw that my PA was at 0 in the cfg for some reason 😭

#

Was a blessing in disguise anyway, decided I liked how the corner at ~0.045 looked better than 0.03

icy pine
#

If Unknown command:"T0" shows up in the klipper console, make sure this box is ticked in OrcaSlicer (Printer Settings > Multimaterial)

image.png
icy pine
# icy pine

Also I've been paying close attention to the tops of these squares and 0.96 is in the "lines just barely don't touch" territory of EM so I think 0.98 will be damn near perfect

#

I don't plan on chasing unicorns but I might do that 0.5% interval

#

Just 'cause it's mentioned in Ellis' guide which probably implies that it wouldn't be classed as such lol

icy pine
#

Taking a look at the 0.98 EM cube makes me think that the default 1 EM is probably spot on lmfao

#

Also it appears that my cooling setting adjustments fixed the corner lifting and also made the text on the bottom actually legible

#

..It's a much bigger improvement in person lol

#

Better angle

20250301_023903.jpg
#

The right one is supposed to be 0.920

#

Honestly it's probably a combination of the cooling and the actual EM setting itself

icy pine
#

Le scuffed setup

#

It works lol

#

Anyway I'm gonna print the 1.000 EM cube and then head to bed

icy pine
#

Looks like 1.000 isn't high enough still, guess I'll be doing 1.020 once I get back into this

icy pine
#

So idk what happened here but the top of my 1.020 cube is wavy somehow

#

🤔

#

I think I was misinterpreting what I was seeing, 0.980 might actually be correct

#

Might be closer to 0.960 actually

#

0.980 has ridges

#

I can kinda tell based on feel too

#

Rubbing my finger against the grain, 0.940 feels the smoothest but it does seem to have minor gaps, so I guess I'll try 0.945 next

icy pine
#

Definitely a step in the right direction, I think 0.950 will be right on the money

hollow oasis
#

Trust your fingernail, perpendicular to the grain of the surface.

icy pine
#

Yeah I just wanted a bit more intel

#

0.945 might be correct

#

0.945 looks and feels closer to what I want compared to 0.940, so doing 0.950 to confirm that just feels like the right thing to do

#

I'm not tuning any lower than 0.5% increments

hollow oasis
#

I like to use orcaslicer yolo perfectionist mode, under the calibration menu.

icy pine
#

0.940, 0.945, and 0.950 respectively

hollow oasis
#

Also, you might want to check out what Eric Zimmerman has mentioned on several occasions regarding the order of Ellis’s tests, such as here: #slicers_and_print_help message
Don’t feel stuck having to strictly follow Ellis’ sequence, it’s not ideal.

icy pine
#

Oh good

#

That's in the advanced tuning thing, right?

hollow oasis
#

Yeah, if you do the stuff in advanced tuning first, you can avoid having to redo stuff in just plain “tuning”

icy pine
#

Why is that not first then :v

icy pine
# icy pine

Either way, knowing which of these is best will help me in the future

#

So I can compare lol

#

'cause at .5% increments it's a little hard to say, I can't tell if .945 or .950 is better

#

.950 looks better

hollow oasis
#

Too small a sample size, especially when you are trying to develop your EM assessment skills. If you do yolo perfectionist, you’ll see that each step makes a difference. Bright light and fingernail, you should be able to narrow in on what’s best. I like to re-evaluate pressure advance as I close in on the right EM. They both affect each other.

icy pine
#

Right

#

By the way, the run_current lines in the cfg, are they just 1:1 with amps (a value of 0.8 means 0.8A) or is it some weird % thing?

#

Dang that yolo perfectionist mode is nice lol

#

They're kinda close together though, should I space them out more or is it fine?

hollow oasis
#

0.8 means 0.8 amps.

icy pine
#

Gotcha

hollow oasis
#

You probably ought to cut and paste the input shaper test settings asked for in the resonance basic channel, sticky at the top.

#

And consider installing tmc autotune.

icy pine
#

TMC autotune was the only thing I'm missing from there, so I'll get that

#

The cfg doesn't have the moons-MS17HD6P4201, it has the 200 version and the data is different so I guess I'll define my own

#

The "steps per revolution" section appears to relate to the "number of phase" section on the diagram, does that sound about right?

#

I'm choosing to believe the motor diagrams that arrived with my kit (I did look at the motors beforehand though) because I've seen several other people receive identical papers with the exact same kit

#

..Oh, there's a comment here saying that all 1.8deg motors use 200 lol

#

The Z motors also aren't in here

#

The closest model name match also has mismatched data, so that's another custom entry lol

#

I'm not seeing a holding torque value anywhere on this sheet 🤔

#

The number at the end of the model seems to coincide with the rated current, at least

#

The one on the sheet has 150 at the end (1.5A) and this one says it's rated for 2A, it ends with 200

#

Honestly I kinda just copied the holding torque from moons-le174s-t0804-300-ar3-s-150 so if anything it's a bit low

icy pine
#

Doing the accel tests right now and I'm at 60k and this is the first time I've seen a difference of >1 microstep lmao

#

My velocity is probably a bit low though

icy pine
# icy pine

I should probably base my speeds on this graph though

#

er, maybe not, idk

#

80k accel and still no skipping- Is this normal? xD

#

Maybe it is and it's just my low speed

#

I feel like I'm doing something wrong

hollow oasis
#

I think it’s pretty safe to say you’re not doing 60k accel in any practical sense. I haven’t used Ellis’ accel tests, so I don’t know what to expect there. Watch some of Xiar’s videos of 60k accel on his Hexdent, for a visual of what you’d be seeing.

icy pine
#

The instructions are telling me to increase accel until I get a skip and currently I'm at 150,000

#

So yeah something's not right here lmfao

#

I guess it means my printer was hitting some kind of hard limit

#

I'm just gonna run it at 400 speed 15k accel

hollow oasis
#

Maybe time to print a voron cube (follow guidelines in resonance basic) and make a post in resonance basic. Then you’ll soon have a profile that’s a reasonable combination of speed and quality. After that explore the limits of either, as you see fit, but you’ll have something to fall back on when you want to make a nice print.

icy pine
#

I suppose

hollow oasis
#

400 speed 15k you can have some fun printing a benchy.

icy pine
#

What's a recommended starting point for a voron cube, then?

hollow oasis
#

You’ll run up against the flow limits of your hotend.

icy pine
#

The flow limit is (supposedly) 24mm3/s

#

Dragon HF

#

I've also kinda been waiting to post in the resonance channel because I feel like that's meant for actually "complete" printers with panels that aren't held together by painters' tape and a dream

hollow oasis
#

You should do a flow test on your own filament to make your own assessment. You can use orca slicer’s test from the calibration menu. Stop the print when it gets squirrey.

icy pine
#

The flow rate yolo perfectionist version?

#

or the Other > Max flowrate one-

#

Is this error okay to ignore?

image.png
hollow oasis
#

I just choose repair

icy pine
#

Starting at 20 and ending at 26 with 0.5 step size sound good?

#

Trying to hone in while not making it take ages to do the test, lol

torpid crescent
hollow oasis
#

I’d start at 15. Downside is it uses more filament. I actually ran into an issue when I switched to my dragon HF where it was running into trouble past 15, while my dragon ST does 19 easily.

hollow oasis
icy pine
#

My first print fail, yippee

icy pine
#

I noticed the lifting at around 40% through the print

#

The nozzle just hit it before I paused the print lol

torpid crescent
#

The lifting is from poor adhesion. I don’t have the best of luck with that print either. But. Your flow was still good at the point it failed. What hotend are you using?

icy pine
#

Dragon HF

torpid crescent
#

Ah. Yea. It does 24³ no problem. If you add a cht nozzle to it it can do 30³.

icy pine
#

Noted

#

My config had it set to 25 by default so when I noticed that I bumped it back down to 24, but that was a while ago

#

Well at least I only lost like 4 grams of filament

#

I did do a thorough soap and water cleaning of my textured bed surface when I got around to that bit of Ellis' guide and haven't touched it with my greasy mitts since then, so I guess that file is just difficult to print

#

I feel like having a brim on the inside would have helped

torpid crescent
#

Yea. That flow test is great for finding the maximums. But man is it hard to get it to stick sometimes. Lol.

icy pine
#

Some kind of stepped brim on both sides, maybe

#

Its just that the walls did not want to stick to it or something lol

#

Maybe it just expects a less fussy filament/hotter chamber

hollow oasis
#

It also might stick better when you start out slower… but, more filament.

torpid crescent
#

Now I’m thinking about going to run it on my trident to see what rapido uhf actually maxes out as.

icy pine
#

But the print did its job, it got someone else to tell me what was wrong lmao

#

Gonna run a single first layer patch to see if my layer squish could use some adjustment after my accel and speed changes

#

Also for the orca EM calibration I'm just gonna nuke the positive swatches from the plate because my prior testing has already shown that anything above 1 is way too much

icy pine
# icy pine

The orca ones only go down to .96 though, and these were around the .94 range

torpid crescent
#

You can go lower. Set the EM in the filament section. Press save. Then reopen the calibration test. It will then go lower. It’s based around the initial EM in the filament settings.

icy pine
#

Makes sense

#

I'll set it to .95 then

#

Ah, I just assumed it would use flat numbers and not actually do the calcs to add/subtract what's actually on the swatches

#

Good to know

hollow oasis
#

Just don’t use the web formulas for YOLO. I did a poorly received writeup on this a week or so ago.

#

#slicers_and_print_help message

torpid crescent
hollow oasis
torpid crescent
hollow oasis
#

Well actually I printed the little 20mm single wall cubes and used calipers, but practically the same result.

torpid crescent
#

And to be fair. I care more about max volumetric speed than em.

hollow oasis
#

And one flow for all filaments 😂

#

PLA, TPU, ABS, PETG… well I already calculated EM, don’t need to do it again😂

icy pine
#

Lol

icy pine
#

So my EM swatches finished

#

All of them have corner lifting except for the ones that are 0.97+

#

The 0.96 one also doesn't so I assume it's unrelated

#

It kinda looks like there are ridges on all of them (even the negative ones) so maybe I'm just blind

#

The one that my fingernail gets stuck on the least is -0.015, which is 0.935

#

Actually maybe not

#

0 and -0.005 look and feel the smoothest, I had my mom check as an unbiased sanity test and she noticed the same thing

#

This is -0.015, these are ridges that I'm seeing, right?

#

It's so hard to tell lol

#

I'm looking at it in a different light now and I think I can tell what's going on

#

When shifting it around I'm supposed to be making sure I don't see any valleys on the lines themselves, right?

#

Honestly I might just leave it at .950

hollow oasis
#

.935 would be more typical of what to expect

icy pine
#

I'm not good at deciding but looking at the images on Ellis' guide, even the ones that are shown as "perfect" have the minor valleys

#

Yeah you're probably right

hollow oasis
#

Should bring z offset down, needs more squish to prevent corner lifting… I don’t like having any corner lifting on these.

icy pine
#

I just wanted to test and try and come to my own conclusion instead of just having the answer given to me and not learning how to find it myself

icy pine
hollow oasis
#

A little bit of salmon skin on first layer is ok, and often needed for proper squish on textured PEI. Yes, more negative.

icy pine
#

Right now I have it at -0.150 as "good enough" but honestly somewhere around -.175 or higher is probably better

hollow oasis
#

I’d set it to .94 and run it again, just unselect all the positives.

#

Don’t worry about what Z-offset number is. It is what it is. If you need more squish, you drop it for more squish.

icy pine
#

Right

#

So EM at .94, run the calibration file again but without the positives?

icy pine
#

I think EM is about the last thing I'd need to tune before I print a proper voron cube to diagnose other issues lol

#

Are there any slicer settings I should be aware of and set properly before I print the cube?

icy pine
icy pine
#

Yeah, I think .935 is probably the right one

#

Gonna experiment a little and increase my bed temp to 100 (and disable the heat soak code in the print start macro since I don't have a chamber thermistor yet) to see if that results in better adhesion

#

Would rather do that than touch Z offset twice in a row

icy pine
#

Yeah that also fixed up the little bit of corner raising I had left

icy pine
#

Printing the cube right now, it is mesmerizing to watch

#

Especially since I decided to try gyroid infill, lol

#

I used the settings at https://docs.vorondesign.com/sourcing.html to determine which settings I should use, and it lists like 5 different infill patterns that you can pick from, I like the way gyroid looks so I chose that one

icy pine
#

🤔

#

Seems to get a lil wobbly on the vertical corners, but other than that I think this is pretty good for a first cube

#

I'm sure whatever this was supposed to test is also a fail

torpid crescent
#

Looks like you need more cooling or slower printing. Otherwise. Looks great!

icy pine
#

I'm gonna go to bed for now since it's getting late, but it would be nice to know what the cause of these may be lol

#

More cooling.. Noted

#

Ellis' guide did mention "having higher fan speeds than you think" and yet I still kept them low lol

torpid crescent
#

With ABS on a Voron and the chamber nice and toasty you can use all of the fan.

icy pine
#

Yeah, I saw

#

Gonna bump the fan up a lil then and run it again tomorrow

#

Could the voron cube be considered a "single small object"?

#

🤔

torpid crescent
#

Yes

icy pine
#

100% fan it is, then

torpid crescent
#

That is what I do

icy pine
torpid crescent
#

I run 30% for my Trident but that has a CPAP. Where 30% is basically 150% of a 5015. Lol. My Micron has dual 4010 fans and I use 100% fan with it as well.

icy pine
#

Might look into cpap somewhere down the line, then

torpid crescent
#

You won’t need it unless you are being crazy like me. I like to print very fast. Like 40-80³ flow fast.

#

See #1309948210160205834 for my trident.

icy pine
#

Right, I remember seeing yogi link to that earlier lmao

#

Noted

torpid crescent
icy pine
torpid crescent
#

My wallet agrees

icy pine
#

In any case, I'm (hopefully) 1 voron cube print away from doing some extra tuning on my main and accent colours and finally printing some panel clips so my printer is actually presentable enough to make a post in the resonance basic help (if I have problems still)

#

Even so I'll probably be putting the build on hold so I can actually finish clearing out my room and assemble the desk it'll have a home on since I imagine some of my tuning will be invalidated by doing so, lol

#

Panel clips first, though

#

My left side panel has been sagging more and more as time goes on lmao

icy pine
#

..I really don't have the tape to fix this so I think I'm gonna yolo it and just print a few no hardware annex clips in my blue test filament (bottom corners and top middle single) just as a stopgap, I'm printing the top clip + key as a separate plate first so it'll double as a test

#

So it'll be these clips plus some tape holding on for dear life while I finish all this tuning tomorrow lol

#

Another late night of tinkering, yippee

#

No cooling for the first 3 layers and 80% for the rest since it's not a single object

torpid crescent
#

It’s almost 5am for me. I’m always tinkering all day. Lol.

icy pine
#

Nearly 3 for me lol

#

The two corner clips + keys are gonna take 43 minutes, so

torpid crescent
#

Nap time? hehe

icy pine
#

Doesn't help that it takes 10 minutes before the printing itself even starts

#

:>

#

Putting it at the bottom for now since the panel is sagging, so I guess that test can be considered a success

#

Onto the corner clips

#

..Now that I think about it, maybe corner clips are a bit overkill for a temp solution and I could just get away with two more of these to hold the bottom

#

Think I'm gonna try that instead

#

It's half the time so I'm gonna say that's worth it

#

One at the top and two at the bottom combined with the tape should be more than enough to hold until I get some proper clips going

#

Think I might get fancy and print all of the clips in my accent colour, but all of the keys in my main

icy pine
# icy pine

Also I uh, may have gone a bit over on my z offset from bein lazy, because I definitely see the outline of zeros from these etched into my plate lmfao

#

It's fineee

#

It's only visible from extreme angles with the case light on so that's probably why I never noticed 'til now

stark copper
#

Are you printing with asa now? If so how is the nevermore that came with the formbot kit? I'm going to get a stealthmax but I'll need to print the parts for it.

stark copper
#

I'm about ready to start tuning my trident. Is it recommended to the advanced tuning first in the Ellis guide? I think I read somewhere that this should be done first.

icy pine
#

I paid a bit extra to have the nevermore parts printed in my PiF order

#

So I just started with ASA

stark copper
icy pine
#

Not sure how to go about fixing this tbh, it's only on the front right corner and seems to be consistent

#

Cooling is already at max so all I can think of is less speed 🤔

icy pine
#

Lowered my speed and accel a bit and that seems to have basically resolved it

icy pine
#

Hmm

#

I just got done with another cube in my accent colour and it has damn near identical issues as the blue one

#

Like

#

The exact same corners are wonky in the exact same ways

#

More cooling + slower speed didn't change anything 😭

#

I guess it's something to do with VFA and I found a section on Ellis' guide about it, so I'm gonna check that out

#

I think wall printing order might help?

hollow oasis
#

I like inner-outer-inner

icy pine
#

Apparently my pif order was done with inner/outer so that's not a proper solution, in this case

#

🤔

icy pine
#

Yeah it was definitely my speeds

icy pine
#

Well, accels rather

icy pine
# icy pine

I was made aware that these charts actually give you a suggested accel, dunno how I missed that lol

#

So I was just running at like 12k and going "why do I have artifacts" like a genius

#

So based on that, my top accel is 4730

#

But my velocity can supposedly go up to 1100 🤔

#

Running 50 iterations of the test_speed macro at 4730 accel and 1100 velocity just to confirm that I'm not getting skips

hollow oasis
#

Set your outer walls to no more than the recommended Y-accel for whatever input shaper method you're going to use...MZV or EI in this case. No problem using 12k for infill.

icy pine
#

I see

#

Inner walls should stay at 4730 too right?

hollow oasis
#

1100 is not a practical speed. I haven't used that test_speed macro at all, so I won't comment wrt what it's doing. But I get the feeling you are wasting your time running additional iterations of that.

icy pine
#

..I see

#

Is something like 400 more practical?

hollow oasis
#

Inner walls can be more. You won't see them. For example on my 2.4 350, I use 3200 for outer wall accel, 9000 for inner, 50% bridge, 15k sparse and internal solid infill, 6000 travel. I could do higher for travel, but 15k shakes my wobbly table enough. 20k really shakes the crap out of things, so I only used that once for a benchy.

icy pine
#

Right

icy pine
hollow oasis
#

Jerk is basically square corner velocity. No need to set lower than 5, but for infill, inner walls, travel, set it to whatever your accel for that is, divided by 1000. So for 12k infill, you could set jerk to 12.

icy pine
#

All of my Jerk values are greyed out in the slicer aside from "default" which is at 0 by default lol

#

"square corner velocity" is set to 5 in my cfg though

#

I guess I should set it to 4.73

#

..Oh, the greyed out ones became available when I set a value other than 0 in the slicer

hollow oasis
#

I do 400 velocity for travel, but that's it. You want to avoid speeds that are in the white zones of your vibrations profile map. Keep in mind that your toolhead isn't going to instantly jump to the specified maximum, so if you choose numbers close to the lower edge of a green zone, your toolhead might spend more time than you'd like in a white zone.

#

No, just use 5 as a minimum scv

#

And it seems like the convention is to stick to whole numbers for jerk.

icy pine
#

ah.

#

So rounding up is fine?

hollow oasis
#

I'd round down.

icy pine
#

I see

hollow oasis
#

Or just choose multiples of 1000 for your accels, if that would make you feel better.

icy pine
#

I meant for jerk values

hollow oasis
#

Yeah, if you choose multiples of 1000 for accel, there will be no rounding of your jerk values.

icy pine
#

Makes sense

#

But rounding down from 4730 to 4000 is not ideal

#

I'd rather just round the jerk values down to 4 and leave the accels as they are

hollow oasis
#

So, you don't have to feel cheated about rounding down your jerks.

icy pine
#

I'll bump the accels to 4700 though

hollow oasis
#

The recommendation is to not use SCV/jerk values below 5.

icy pine
#

Oh.

hollow oasis
#

But for values above 5, round down. Or use multiples of 1000 for your accels.

icy pine
#

This look about right, then?

hollow oasis
#

Also, no everybody uses exactly the recommended Y accel for their outer walls. Some use a bit less, for a quality buffer. On my Ender, I tuned it until I got recommenced accels of 4200. I use a max accel of 3000.

icy pine
#

Fair enough

#

Maybe I'll do 4k then

hollow oasis
#

Whatever numbers you decide to go with, those are your numbers for your printer... your 300 should be able to go faster than my stock 350. So, don't feel like you can't go faster or slower. Whatever you're happy with. That said, I've been using 120 for my first layer and infill, 150 for outer walls, 270 for inner walls, sparse and internal solid infills, 95 for top surface.

icy pine
#

Oh right, I forgot about the individual layer speeds lol

hollow oasis
#

So if you're going way faster, and aren't happy with the quality, you might want to slow down. If you are going way slower, you might want to consider speeding up.

icy pine
#

Gotcha

#

What about gap infill?

hollow oasis
#

I have mine set to 50, but haven't been using gap infill. Today I'm using it, I don't know that I'm going to bother changing it.

hollow oasis
# icy pine

These look reasonable. I'd lower top surface accel. You're not gaining much time savings here, and you probably want your top surfaces to look nice. Maybe choose 1000. Or do same as your first layer.

icy pine
#

Some of these were set higher than I changed them to, so

hollow oasis
#

I'd say it's time to crank out your clips. Get your serial number, make a post in resonance basic, not necessarily in that order.

icy pine
#

Yeah, think I wanna print another cube (or little swatch, at the very least) just to sanity check

icy pine
#

I also did something kinda smart (maybe) since you can set the first layer bed temp, I set that to 110 and then set it back to 100 for the rest of the print

#

I'm still noticing a little C in the corner so I guess I'm doing another cube lol

icy pine
#

(the tape on my back panel crapped out right as I was about to do some clips for it)

hollow oasis
#

I'd suggest not stuffing the tape into the extrusion channel. Just pull it tight, and wrap it straight over, and around the corner of the extrusion to the panel on the other side.

icy pine
#

Done, hopefully it'll hold long enough for these clips to finish

hollow oasis
#

If it falls mid print, just tape it back up and don't worry about it. Print doesn't fail until it fails. Something as small as those clips, can often print successfully open air.

icy pine
#

Well that jinxed it

#

One of the clips just failed

#

The keys are fine but I guess I have to restart all 3 clips

#

failed 4 layers after the keys finished

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sigh

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Nevermind, the keys didn't finish either 🙃

#

Yeah the stuff just started lifting from the plate on its own

hollow oasis
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More squish

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You want the print bottoms to have a nice pebbly texture, if using the textured side.

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Take a picture of the bottom of those failed clips.

icy pine
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The bottoms of the keys have the texture but the clips do not because they lifted, it's just very strange because I printed some before and this didn't happen

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Even stranger is that one of the three didn't lift and it has the texture, as expected

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I started the print again and am now past the point where it failed last time, so as I thought, something strange happened during the literal 5 minutes that I left it alone that I didn't see

hollow oasis
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There are memes for this phenomenon

icy pine
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Figures

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Back panel fell again during the final layer lol

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Hmm

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Maybe these do need more squish, suddenly?

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The one in the middle is the one that has the proper texture, the ones to the right don't have the texture on the outer walls but they do on the flat bottom

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That's an annoying issue to troubleshoot

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I'm not sure where to even start with that when I wasn't having this issue with the first clips I printed the other night

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One clip has a proper amount of squish but the other two do not

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Last time I noticed corners lifting on something I just raised the print bed temps and that stopped happening altogether

icy pine
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Gonna run another 3 clip print for the other taped panel before it falls this time

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But I'm doing it per object so that if one fails, it's just one fail instead of 3

stark copper
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Just doing some tuning and curious what you got for max speed and acceleration.

icy pine
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Speed depends on both your printer size, how well it's assembled, and what kind of quality you're looking for

icy pine
# icy pine

This is basically what I went with, it's probably a bit fast though

stark copper
icy pine
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I'm printing some temporary blue annex clips because my painter's tape doesn't wanna hold for much longer lol

stark copper
icy pine
# 
kinematics: corexy
max_velocity: 400  
max_accel: 4700
max_z_velocity: 15             #Max 15 for 12V TMC Drivers, can increase for 24V
max_z_accel: 350
square_corner_velocity: 5.0```
stark copper
icy pine
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Fair

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I started with ASA immediately so I taped my panels on

icy pine
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Oh good

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Another problem

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Guess I'm turning those down

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Back to 0.8A for you

icy pine
icy pine
icy pine
# icy pine

Really wish I knew why this one looks significantly worse on the bottom 🙃

icy pine
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Slowing down my speeds didn't help with the cube and it has the exact same wobbles in the exact same places, yippee

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All I can guess about the first layer weirdness is that I need a proper heat soak

bleak pilot
icy pine
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Wish I knew why that was, because the bottoms of other objects are usually fine

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I think it's just a matter of heat soak atp

bleak pilot
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It could be residual filament on the tip if you are using tap

icy pine
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Would not shock me

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Honestly I'm not totally sure how to fix that, I've been doing my best to brush it and stuff but it's getting annoying

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Whenever the nozzle is hot enough to clean, it's hot enough for more filament to just keep spilling out due to gravity

safe parcel
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Have you checked the hot end temp with another gauge? May be that it's running hotter than you think it is.

icy pine
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Hmm

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I have been running it at 260 and it's one of the few slicer variables I haven't changed much yet

crystal depot
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Sorry for the throwback to an old message, but I currently have the exact same problem. How did you solve this? Did you crimp a female JST to it?

crystal depot
icy pine