Tridentbert

[cedar plover]

😆might not change

Probably just need more mass

Only solution

[ripe spindle]

oh im onto that, still need to mount the 10kg electrical box

[cedar plover]

I’m sure it’s pretty decent! Probably won’t work on all surfaces but what can you ask for

Bigger issue (same with stock vorons) the height of the rubber might allow more sway

[ripe spindle]

oh absolutly. in theory i could just reprint the feet in something none rubbery

the geometry is super simple

[cedar plover]

That might just turn the vibrations into rotations about the electrical box 🤣

[cedar plover]

That could be worse, micro vibrations on the surface it sits on will quickly leave marks I imagine

[ripe spindle]

yea will definatly wont be great for the floor

[cedar plover]

And maybe that’s how it’s meant to be

[ripe spindle]

then again our landlords selected the absolut weakest floor i have ever seen. we have a bunch of tiny scratched in the living room from the cats running on the floor

[cedar plover]

I wanna make like a reverse hybrid corexy so an extra motor slings a weight to match the gantry movement

[ripe spindle]

gotta build two machines in one frame where one machine always mirrors the moves of the other 😅

[cedar plover]

I think the cats are gonna make 4 very circular scratch patterns in a very continent square 🤷‍♂️

[cedar plover]

😆

Full idex?

But like not the same purpose at all

[ripe spindle]

nono not idex. like two compelte machines with two beds, two z assemblies and so on in a single frame

someone has already made that exact machine just dont have a picture of it

[cedar plover]

Yess that’s what I’m saying, it’s like idex but a shared frame instead of a shared x axis

So not idex at all

But like idex can do the mirroring thing so there’s gotta be a good pun there

[ripe spindle]

should be pretty easy as well to do in klipper. have a x and x1 motor where x1 has an inverted pin

if you print a single benchy it will print two and one will be mirrorwed

[cedar plover]

Oh wait your totally right, I was overthinking it

I was wanting a second trident flipped upside down and turned 180

[ripe spindle]

ofc you might have a hard time homing both machines

[cedar plover]

For shits and giggles

[cedar plover]

Dw abt that…

[ripe spindle]

oh well that be true mirroring

[cedar plover]

Seems like more fun to me 😆

[ripe spindle]

also got tridentbert fully up and running

hotend clogs suck

[cedar plover]

Oooh nice!!

I’m excited to have 4 billion clogs 🥹

Means I’m doing something right I think

[ripe spindle]

but chube is awesome, could fully dissemble it, clean it and put it back together without breaking anything

[cedar plover]

It truly is so amazing

I got mine running for the first time last night

[ripe spindle]

kinda a first for me ... dont even wanna know how many rapidos i have damaged over time

[cedar plover]

And I’m scared of the fumes it can make…

[ripe spindle]

thats just the machining oil vaporising

perfectly normal

mine did it as well: #gchat message

[cedar plover]

Hmm you might be right actually. I was thinking a little vocs and some water vapors but makes sense there’s oil in there

[ripe spindle]

if thats the first time you where heating it up then yea thats expected

[cedar plover]

Mine only did it during extrusion though

[ripe spindle]

the parts are still covered in oil from the manufacturing process that has to gass of.

[cedar plover]

And not my first time heating it…

[cedar plover]

This is scary though… makes sense I guess

[ripe spindle]

ah mhm maybe extruding to hot or the filament is wet? 🤔

could be water from the filament boiling off

cause you can hear some poping as well

[cedar plover]

Was definitely a little hot, and it was some waste filament it was bubbling soooo badly

I’m really hoping it was mostly vapor 😆

[ripe spindle]

yea then dont worry. To hot + wet filament will turn your hotend into a chain smoker

[cedar plover]

Couldn’t smell much but maybe I’m just getting accustomed

🤣

Makes sense yeah

Curious how far I can push that now

[ripe spindle]

depends, if you are slice then yes

300c pla lets go

[cedar plover]

What happens if you stick a 300c chube into a dish of water?

[ripe spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/house-explosion-explode-boom-kaboom-gif-19506150

[cedar plover]

300C on pla is actually wild

Feel like you’d be melting half of it away

[ripe spindle]

thats how slice measured max flow rate on one of their hotends back in the day

ya know reasonable printing temperatures for such an material

[cedar plover]

Feels a little unfair, easier to push gas out of a nozzle than liquid 😆

[ripe spindle]

oh yea lol

[cedar plover]

I wonder if it’s possible to shoot plastic as a gas and get it to reform onto another part when it hits

Would imagine the structure fails

[ripe spindle]

likely would need a super long melt zone and high temperatures for a polymer to sublimated into a gas

[ripe spindle]

Currently assembling monolith and i have done it once more 👀

Guess il continue to use the steel 695 bearings that i got from the mpx kit way back and see how long they last.

[ripe spindle]

Assembled the front motor mounts and the xy joints for monolith today. Assembly went super well, about as good is i could hope for. In terms of difficulty its no more challenging then a stock voron gantry just that one has to work of the cad model instead of a manual.

[unborn rover]

Super clean setup

[ripe spindle]

thank you. I still have to figure cable managment for the motor cables out as well as add insulation to the inside of the machine.

Heatup times with all that aluminum is atrocious without internal insulation.

[gleaming helm]

Where did you get the sheet metal monolith?

[ripe spindle]

I got the lasercut parts from laserboost.com but #hobby-store-pl-🇵🇱-🇪🇺 has precut sets available

[gleaming helm]

Thanks

Have you not started outrunning you Galileo yet?

[ripe spindle]

Assembled one motor mount today. The assembly was easy just getting the pins down to the right size and surprising disassembling the old motor mount was an absolute pain. Some of bearings from west3d high a bit of a smaller inner diameter to i had to remove more material from the pins witch took a really really long time.

But oh my god are they looking awesome*!!!

[ripe spindle]

Nope not yet but i also havent pushed the machine that hard at all

[gleaming helm]

Ah understandable

[bitter tapir]

Why no krakens!
Jokes aside, she’s gorgeous

[ripe spindle]

why no krakens? cause i really dont wanna waste money 😅

they are super expensive for what they are. One kraken is ~60€ while a single 2504s from omc is 13€

Sure they have a thermistor but if i really want i could just add some myself.

[ripe spindle]

Finished installing monolith today! Its looking awesome!!

Also ran IS and the results are .. usable

Im not completly done yet. Need to add some grub screws to life shaft, tension the belts correctly (currently a bit undertensioned) and find a solution for the extrusion in the back thats holden bed. It is not connected at the top right now and might be leading to some IS issues.

A small package from @unborn rover showed up today as well. Some really nicely made toothed pullies that il be installing in the future!

[unborn rover]

Super weird results

Hard to see from your picture, but are your front left motor engages the same belt back right motor?

I see, everything correct

[ripe spindle]

yep front left and back right + front right and back left

but yea the results are .. weird

[unborn rover]

If I would guess, I will say that 2 motors are not connected 🙂

[ripe spindle]

but belt tension is a bit wack so that might have something to od it with

[unborn rover]

Pretty sure Reth can spot something easily

[ripe spindle]

ye but before i bother him il try to fix it myself :D

[unborn rover]

Charts look clean

So I am really surprised

Maybe motors power?

[ripe spindle]

possible im only running them at 1amp or else one driver is really really unhappy

[unborn rover]

WOW

Insane temp for 1amp

Man, something is off

[ripe spindle]

oh no thats 1.5a sorry :D

[unborn rover]

even for 1.5

[ripe spindle]

Guess witch one is y1

[unborn rover]

Also Y1 is so off.

[ripe spindle]

Y1 is the one in the middle with basically no air flowing over it

i gotta rearange the steppers so that xy getts enoug cooling. z, z1 and z2 dont need that much anyways

[unborn rover]

Sad I don't have picture from my Ratrig 500 anymore - I put 120mm blower fan from the side

[river ivy]

2240s?

[ripe spindle]

ofc

[river ivy]

If so, with or without Autotune?

[ripe spindle]

without rn

[river ivy]

Oh yeah, then temps will be fucked

[ripe spindle]

oh .. great :D

[river ivy]

Dropped temps by like 40c on TriDumb lol

[ripe spindle]

wow

[ripe spindle]

Holly hell you are right! With tmc autotune at 1.5a and the drivers are a couple c higher then at 1A but thats it. Damn!

[river ivy]

That's more sensible. It's insane how much it drops the temps

[ripe spindle]

oh yea .. guess klipper default setting just suck for 2240

[river ivy]

Yeah. It's the chopper frequency, or something like that that's all out of whack

[ripe spindle]

Tensioned the belts a bit more. X is looking pretty good. Y could still be improved uppon :)

[unborn rover]

Oh yeah, this looks awesome!

Can you please tell what tension do you use for those results?

[ripe spindle]

No wait 6.5lb ... reading the manual is hard

But i could have gone higher but above that the belt slipped in the toolhead.

Gotta take them out of takeoff und put them in without them beeing able to slip nex and see how far i can go

[desert escarp]

Can I do this on 2209s?

[ripe spindle]

Sure you can use autotune but you wont see that drastically of a temp drop

[desert escarp]

Oke hmm thanks

[ripe spindle]

Uggg i missread the graph lol its 7lb

Its a 3.1 on the meter

So maybe around 7lb or so

[unborn rover]

Oh, I meant Newtons.

It is very common mistake in Discord

But amazingly awesome results

[ripe spindle]

Especially if you arent acustome to freedome unit. 30lb? Sure seams fine

[unborn rover]

Clear graphs and zero vibrations!

[ripe spindle]

Oh yea especially since its laser cut sheet metal

Ive seen far far worth

Kinda proud of that result if im honest

[unborn rover]

I have moved to US like 5y ago so I steel use g, kg, km, etc

[ripe spindle]

Good. Simply the better system

When i get home i gotta redo the belts on the toolhead and then see what speeds i can get out of it

[ripe spindle]

Tensioned the belts to ~8 - 8.5 lb witch led to a small improvment in max accels values

Also fixed the belts slipping on the toolhead.

Gonna do a couple test prints now and see how fast i can push the motion system.

[raw sorrel]

Autospeed for the win:

https://github.com/Anonoei/klipper_auto_speed

If you run that first, you can learn the limits, then safely derate before you print. You can also see how changes to things like driver current and tensions affect actual max speeds and accels.

[ripe spindle]

woa this is cool, gonna test it out!

[river ivy]

Has it become more realistic since I used it?

I'm fairly sure this kills the TriDumb

[raw sorrel]

YMMV. I was happy with it with switch-based endstops, but I know with sensorless you have to adjust the sensitivity.

Here's my two examples

[river ivy]

This was on a 250 single shear AWD Trident

[raw sorrel]

I think so. Shared a few outputs above where it let me see the effect of a param change, quickly.

[river ivy]

That's funny.. Same result basically, different toolhead

[leaden crag]

No, it can, just not all at the same time:

[ripe spindle]

Cut a couple holes in the electrical box to add two fans as well as a power inlet. Both sides will get a printed rim/cover to hide the super ugly cut .. but im happy i was able to cut the steel with my jig saw at all. :)

[spare meteor]

do 16 lbs if it's GT2 or GT2 EPDM

[ripe spindle]

oh damn yea its gt2 epdm

but wont that sort of tension not wear the bearings/rails down super badly?

[spare meteor]

I'm running 20 lbs on 10mm EPDM and with the lighter CF tube, toolhead, and rail I only need 2WD to match these low tension results.

[ripe spindle]

wow 😅

yea ok then il tension them up even more

[spare meteor]

This is nothing compared to GT3

[ripe spindle]

Tridentbert

Installed the elctrical cabinet today and its looking awesome!

The wooden spacer fit like a glove with the aluminum panel and the insulation.

Actually routing the wires from the chamber to the electrical box was a real nightmare

Din rails and raceways where preinstalled before installing the electrical cabinet onto the printer.

The wiring isnt fully done yet. Still need to ground the cabinet and put some heat shrink on the power inlet.

From the front the machine looks hella chonky!

[desert escarp]

I think it'd be funny if you cooled it and put some drinks in there :3

[ripe spindle]

I mean its not a fridge haha 😅

[desert escarp]

could be

[bitter tapir]

what're you doing for your printer's door?

[ripe spindle]

Im using a clicky clack style door but instead of printed parts its using metal hinges and magnets for the door. #1317580899184807976 message

[bitter tapir]

ah, gorgeous!

[ripe spindle]

Mostly finalized the enclosure.

I still need to design a mount for the filament runout sensor for the top as well as mount the case fans.

[sour vortex]

so much room for activities

[tender ermine]

@ripe spindle Whats the board that powers the PI?

[ripe spindle]

https://bttwiki.com/SKSM.html

its technically underpowered for a pi4 but its been working perfectly fine as the pi never runs at 100%

[ripe spindle]

yea i could have packed it even more closlybut i dont really need many more electronics

maybe a ws9290 (cpap) blower in the future but thats about it

[sour vortex]

Beautiful setup. I’m discovering new mods all the time and thinking where I’m gonna fit all of it in 300 frame haha

[jagged garden]

I can’t get my filament runout sensors on wwg2 to even work reliably lmao

[ripe spindle]

im using a btt SFS

works fine for me

[jagged garden]

Oh I’m using in-extruder ones

I hate BTT SFS 2.0

1.0 is fine

[ripe spindle]

Turned up speed, accels and scv a bit. Printing at 300mm/s with 15000mm2/s

Im like definatly sure that i can go much faster.

[unborn rover]

Yeah, seems like for your setup it is bottom line 🙂

https://tenor.com/view/car-fast-car-speeding-driving-fast-driving-gif-6194660740054521025

[ripe spindle]

very much lol

just dont know how much more the motors can handle with the lower ish 1.5a currents that im running

gotta see where the limit with the tmc2240s really lies

[unborn rover]

this is amazing result for 1.5a

[ripe spindle]

thx yea its not bad. I can see a bit of ringing (even though i tuned IS) that i gotta tune out

otherwhise surface quality and what not is

And im like sure that im going to get a Carbonara in the next couple of months to make the y axis a bit lighter

[unborn rover]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

Seems like you already have so much power unused, do you even need to ork on making it lighter?

[ripe spindle]

yea i do but im limited on max is accels on y to go faster on the outside

why not fix a problem that might not actually be one

[torpid thicket]

I love the detail, even 90° usb c plugs

[ripe spindle]

Thx the cabinet is not at all super space efficient and i could add like twice as much stuff but its easy to access and even easier to maintaine :)

[torpid thicket]

yeah, thought the cleanlyness, access matters more :))

[ripe spindle]

Ordered a bunch of super cheap asa from Elegoo to print a lot of Gridfinity parts from.

Before i spend 300€ on filament that ive never printed before, i wanted some proof that its decent. Think that proof has been found.

[ripe spindle]

Think thats enough ASA for the next littel while.

[ripe spindle]

Ordered a Crossbow. @junior nacelle lets see if boxturtle works better for me once ive got it installed.

I really really dont wanna use a toolhead cutter but i guess thats the price that one pays

Now i only need a version of G2 that has a filament sensor build it and id be golden.

[junior nacelle]

Nice. Let me know how you like it. It is on my list for the new machine but I haven’t ordered yet

[ripe spindle]

I will! Guess il restort to using the recommend setup anways even if i wast a lot of filament

There is a wwg2 mod with a runout sensor. Id just need to get a top plate that supports orbiter 2 mounting holes. https://www.printables.com/model/972444-wristwatch-g2-filament-runout-sensor/comments

[junior nacelle]

You could steal the one for the A4T and just relocate the mounting holes

[ripe spindle]

Only thing that sucks is that the switch that that mod uses is only rated to 85c

And im assuming that it will get a bit hotter in an 80c chamber where the toolhead parts a bit warmer then that.

[ripe spindle]

Interesting, got a link for me?

[junior nacelle]

The cad is in here. It is what the crossbow was designed to fit. https://github.com/Armchair-Heavy-Industries/A4T

Pretty sure there is a wwg2 option there with switches

[ripe spindle]

ahh thx!

[left vapor]

🤓😂

[ripe spindle]

yea there are 2kg of pla but the other 20kg are asa :P
10kg black and 10kg white

[leaden crag]

The switch should be dissipating a trivial amount of power so it should not have any temperature rise.

[left vapor]

how would you rate the elegoo ASA? i assume happy with it since the order is that large 😅

[ripe spindle]

i was on the lookout for new asa to try and after finding a couple of posts online of people complain that it warps a lot i just bought a bunch. Already printed almost a spools and its really lovley.

_ _
Also going to order a bunch more basotect with a aluminum foil added to the front that im going to add to the inside of the chamber where possible to hopefully shrink the painfully long heatuptimes

Going to use the preapplied glue to mount it to the metall panels and im just kinda hopping that the glue will hold

[ripe spindle]

yea very possible it will be just fine .. and if i have to replace the switch every while then so be it.

[ripe spindle]

Got the ordered insulation today and i am installing it rn. Couldnt resist taking a picture of the machine while its all naked.

I just think its neat that we can build amazing machines that are capable of so much with not much more then hex keys and way to much adhd

[ripe spindle]

Printing a drill jig rn and Tridentbert is zzzzooooommmmiinnggg

Also add a temporary badge holder to hold the umbilical up.

[ripe spindle]

Drilled/tapped a couple of screws so that i can mount a sheet of pc to the door.

[ripe spindle]

Added 2cm internal insulation to help with chamber heatup and its looking really good!!

[ripe spindle]

So apparently melamine foam dust is abbrasive ..witch is great cause now its all inside the printer :')

[river ivy]

Yeah, Magic Sponges are just melamine foam

[ripe spindle]

TIL yep.

but i dont see the foam giving off much dust

[bitter tapir]

you could probably seal it up with a thin sheet of something, right?

or paint on some glue!

[ripe spindle]

Yea probaply a clear paint or something like that

But id be worried that it would break as the foam is super squishy

[ripe spindle]

Upped the speed to 500mm/s and 30k accels for inner wals and infill.

[spring ocean]

Crazy! No oozing, blobs or warping at that speed?

[ripe spindle]

zero but the chamber is also sitting at a compfy ~78c

[open mango]

That's a good reason to seal your printer in the correct way!

[junior nacelle]

Getting some nice stacking there!

[ripe spindle]

thx! You can see some fine wood grain in the right light but overall the prints are looking awesome!!

[ripe spindle]

funny you said that i still have a ~1mm gap on my front door. Have yet to seal that printer super well 😅

but a metric ton of airflow and bed fans + 6cm of insulation (4 outside + 2 inside) does the trick as well

[spring ocean]

Ever thought about just hooking up a heat exchanger / heat pump?

[ripe spindle]

please read the #rules regarding active heating :)

we dont do this here :P

[spring ocean]

Nonono, a heat exchanger to cool the electronics of course! You have to put that latent heat to use somehow.

[ripe spindle]

the electronics are fine. using beacon thats rated far higher then 80. motors are high temp motors and im not using a toolhead board

toolhead is directly wired to the mainboard in the electronics compartment

and i do want the heat insid the chamber. ever bit helps to maintain temp

i will however put a heatsink on the motors to help with heat transfer as i dont want them to get to hot and melt

[spring ocean]

Just wondering, with chamber temps that high and such a long thermistor cable running through it, is the thermistor still accurate?

[ripe spindle]

Yea the readings are mostly all the same and similar enough to the temp measured on the nozzle

I dont have a infrared thermometer but i dont have a reason not to believe the 8 thermistors

[sour vortex]

Does your weather app also have as many temperature forecasts for a single home city? Cause goddamn!!!

[ripe spindle]

I doubt it but thats no where near as bad as @river ivy

[river ivy]

This one?

[ripe spindle]

Maaayyybbeee

[sour vortex]

Oh…

[sour vortex]

Been looking to add stepper thermistors so I have a dragon dingy on the way how did you mount them? I don’t even know where to begin sourcing thermistors lmao

[ripe spindle]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005610398354.html? thats what im gonna buy and mount to all my stappers

and what you care about more is core temperature so add another ~25c to the thermistor value to get the core temp of the motor

[open mango]

Do you screw it to the back phillips screws of each stepper right?

[ripe spindle]

yea

its possible that you might need a slightly longer screw depending on the motor

[open mango]

I liked it too much that I'm going to do it also

[ripe spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/emperor-star-wars-good-goooooood-evil-gif-12447951

ive got another therm^2 here so ive got more then enough space for ALL the thermistors

but i gotta fix the printer in the evening cause one of the motors coils disconnected again

yesterday it was a bad crimp this time im not seeing anything obvious

[open mango]

https://magicphoenix.xyz/product/voron-2-4-9mm-ab-2wd-awd-cnc-kit/ You're still using this gantry?

[ripe spindle]

nope installed sheet metal monolith some time ago

and i dont recommend you buy that gantry either

[open mango]

Oh ok...

[ripe spindle]

the atss cnc gantry from ldo + live shaft xy joints from #vitalii3d-🇺🇸-🇺🇦-🌐 are a far better choice

[open mango]

Than monolith gantry?

[ripe spindle]

atss (a tiny shell script) awd gantry is available right now from ldo with some super nice cnc parts ... but monolith is an option as well

but sheet metal is a lot of work thats finicky to get right and way more expensive then the ldo cnc kit. (assuming you want metal ofc)

[open mango]

Oh perfect, really really thanks, where I can find it?

[ripe spindle]

sheet metal or atss awd kit?

[open mango]

atss

[ripe spindle]

https://3do.dk/en/frame-kits/3578-2084-ldo-voron-cnc-awd-kit-v24-or-trident-preorder.html#/251-printer-voron_trident

but this does NOT include metal xy joints

[open mango]

So #vitalii3d-🇺🇸-🇺🇦-🌐

And that's all

[ripe spindle]

and https://vitalii3d.com/products/live-idler-xy-joints-for-voron-printers-6mm-belts?variant=45307720728761 xy joints

or wait until vitalii releases his cnc gantry

[open mango]

I'll wait definitely I'll buy my 2.4 little by little

[ripe spindle]

maybe by that time monolith cnc is out as well

[open mango]

What's the difference between sheet and CNC

Isn't the same?

[ripe spindle]

its the same mostly but its miles easier to assemble

atleast for my parts some of the pins are ever ever so slightly angled witch leads to belt walk. its not at all noticeable on prints but you can see the belt walk up and down a bit

you wouldnt have that issue with cnc for example

[open mango]

Oh I see, does ATSS have 9mm AWD

[ripe spindle]

yea but the current kit that just released is 6mm

i would NOT be installing the old atss gantry right now

[river ivy]

I've drilled and tapped them for M3 thermistors

[ripe spindle]

Added the bage holder permanently to the machine as its been working wonderfully for the lest couple days/prints.

[ripe spindle]

This is just insane..

[vocal plaza]

is that WWG2 with Chube air? what size nozzle

[ripe spindle]

G2E with chube air and a 0.5mm nozzle. 0.5mm line width and 0.4mm layer height

I did have to swap spool yesterday and the new spool was fully soaked and print quality took a nose dive from there on out. Gotta dry the spool and reprint the part cause its looking awesome with dried filament.

[open mango]

@ripe spindle Where you bought your frame?

[vocal plaza]

Ah interesting. I’m running air with orbiter 2.5 with a .6 TC .3 layer height maxing out at 60mm3/s

[ripe spindle]

Custom misumi order

[ripe spindle]

what print temp? im printing at 290c with a bozzle

[vocal plaza]

290 ASA standard TC nozzle

[ripe spindle]

Weird maybe bozzle is allowing for more flow

[vocal plaza]

Gonna maybe try a WWBMG or LGX lite I guess. Luke says 60 with orbiter is about right

[ripe spindle]

Weird .. il try without the bozzle installed

[vocal plaza]

I ordered an lgx lite pro lol

[ripe spindle]

Set max_freq to 200 and ran IS again. Id say thats pretty good. :)

i would have expected a giant second peak but only Y has a tiny peak right at 200.

[crude token]

sexy

[ripe spindle]

Very and wall quality is also decent for that speed

I still need to tune IS perfectly but layerstacking, if you ignore the ghosting, is bascially perfect

[ripe spindle]

@junior nacelle look what just showed up!

[junior nacelle]

Nice. Cutting is going to be so much easier for you, as long as the Cnc Sherpa isn’t being used

[ripe spindle]

yea i defiantly wont be using that extruder again

i converted it to a 80€ paperweight

[junior nacelle]

It’s not bad if you have 2mm ID PTFE right before the extruder. Mine is a paperweight as well. 😂

[ripe spindle]

il just stay with my g2

its more then good enough seeing as it can feed chube at 70mm3/s

and the add north pc blend is holding up super well to the 80c chamber

[junior nacelle]

I haven’t even got to the point of deciding on extruder for my current build. Looks like my 2040s will be here Thursday though, so hopefully s9me movement next weekend

[ripe spindle]

very cool!

but il upgrade to wwg2 once i can get a mounting plate for the orbiter toolhead mounitng hole pattern

and there is a wwg2 mod with filament runout sensors so im hopping that box turtle will work a littel bit better

[junior nacelle]

Looking forward to seeing you have that done. Hard mode CAN be fulfilling if you can keep of the frustration

[ripe spindle]

oh yea!

once i can get it up and running il als insulate the box turtle chamber a littel but to hopefully help with drying

maybe a wooden outer shell for boxturtle 🤔

[junior nacelle]

Make it look like an old liquor cabinet

[paper fable]

What happened?

[ripe spindle]

its all metal so the extruder gears are getting hot enough to melt asa in a 80c chamber

and also its so finicky with loading that using it in combination with box turtle is a complete no go

[paper fable]

Makes sense

[sour vortex]

Uhhhhhhh what’s goin on I just went wwg2 to cnc Sherpa with an unbuilt box turtle 🥲

[ripe spindle]

at least their v2 version is incredibly finicky to load and i could basically never get it to lead with a box turtle. having a cut of tip helped but also wasnt a guarantee. Maybe the v3 version is better

[sour vortex]

It’s that metal collet thing right?

[ripe spindle]

id assume yea

[sour vortex]

your raw gantry has been growing on me so I just pulled the trigger on sheetmetal mono from scs heeh, although I may cerakote them

[ripe spindle]

haha nice! yea the raw sliver looks is 🔥

[velvet zealot]

hey jakob i have been watching your build for couple of weeks if not month and im deeply interested by it i find it fresh and cool, i dont know if im allowed to share pic here but im currently building a moded voron trident similar to you, what got me interested is the way you have the electronics bay at the side i want do similar things since im not using a a toolhead board would u mind walking me through the process, also im using the regular pc panels that comes with kits i add insulation to it but they still warp crazy, what type of panels u got is it steel is it aluminum im interested to learn more from u since my build is close to you of they idea to get high temp enclosure without "a u know what i mean".

[ripe spindle]

Im using 6mm aluminium panels on all sides. aluminum because it has the same coefficient of thermal expansion as the frame. Id love to see your build but please post them either in #voron_build_showcase or make your own #1221643523741323274 to keep this channel on topic :D

just be aware that bolting a lot of aluminum to your frame is really really bad for heatup times. there is a reason why i have 6cm of insulation on this machine and a metric ton of air flow 😅

[velvet zealot]

yah one of the things that i quickly thinking about was that direct contact with them panels and the frame regarding the heat transfer rate i thought about adding like a rubber seal the ones they use for oil pan for an car engine since its easy to remove and it could maybe eliminate the contact, the thing with insulation im kind of limited to 3mm insulation more to that i will be hitting the mgn rail carriage, i thought about a 1mm galvanized steel sheet but that would be like 15kg added to the machine which nets to 30-35 kg which is a lot, im planning on doing a second revision i might do a build log here and maybe do some youtube videos, what about that side electronic bay mount any tips about that.

[ripe spindle]

sounds good yea the electronics by is deffinatly a choice. I think ive done a rather good job integrating it into the build but its really really heavy. the box alone is 10kg .. i dont know if i would do that again on the next build or maybe just stick with top mounted eletronics :D

[sour vortex]

Did you consider 4020 horizontals at all when designing? Or just straight to 4040

[ripe spindle]

i considered it buy why cheap out when you can have perfection

[sour vortex]

I’m not on your level of hardcore yet 🥲

[open mango]

How much it was your whole frame?

I need to plan the beast

[ripe spindle]

330€
Parts where cnc cut and i tapped and drilled myself

no idea if you really need them cnc cut and if you dont you could likely get the frame for ~200€

[open mango]

Wdym cnc cut?

Is just a frame right?

[ripe spindle]

well precision cut. tolerance of +-0.2mm. but i assume that the regular cut is good enough for us. misumi does batch cutting so if you order 4 extrusion of x size then they might be x + 0.5mm but they will all be x+0.5mm for example

[open mango]

Ok so it's not a problem as the frame will be square

[ripe spindle]

Yea

[ripe spindle]

Got around to printing a bit today.

[ripe spindle]

Some neat things have shown up from #onetwo3d-🇬🇧-🇪🇺-🌐

[left vapor]

I thought the idea was just to build the printers, but now we are actually using them as well!?!? 😂

(What is printing if its something you dont mind sharing?)

[ripe spindle]

yea its INSANE right!!!

print is a custom book/coffee holder for my couch

well that exact print was just a test print. right now tridentbert is without a bed cause im installing the peek lead screw nuts.

[sour vortex]

Did you tumble your sheet metal parts 👀

Hoping for an all in one step maybe the finish would match that CNC double rigid Z I posted last week

[ripe spindle]

Nope just did an insane ammount of hand sanding to make them look good

[paper fable]

do you recommend Basotect over PIR

i might enclose my ender and I see that you have baso on your printer, i have not found a place that sells baso, but i could get PIR from the hardware store

[ripe spindle]

if you can get your hands on PIR 100% go with PIR

id go with PIR in an instand IF i could get my hand on it

[ripe spindle]

Well lets see if the tree supports hold up

[velvet zealot]

@ripe spindle hey jakob one of my friend just got a cnc machine and he offerd me to do some parts for me, i want replace all my z axis parts with cnc ones i modded the motor mounts but the z carriage's is a bit difficult can i get the step files for yours?

[ripe spindle]

i just bought the parts from aliexpress and i sadly dont have the step files for thouse models :(

[sour vortex]

im getting deja vu lol just skimmed from the beginning. I sourced Mpx 2wd for next converesion before mono, still have box turtle to build, troubles with sherpa mini cnc

[ripe spindle]

sounds like you are on the exact same path as me just like 6months behind

[velvet zealot]

where can i find them

[ripe spindle]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006861360294.html?

[ripe spindle]

Pushing speeds a littel and seeing where the limts are. This was 300mm/s at 15/45k accels with 15/20 scv

[ripe spindle]

I really need to figure out how to fully eliminate ghosting in the print. Im using up to date is values but i still see some super tiny ghosting's when going slightly faster.

[paper fable]

Ik, what I do for ghosting is just print the outer wall at like 5-7k where the inter is like 20-30k

But @wooden kernel might know a thing or two more

[wooden kernel]

I just print everything fast cuz my printer better

[wooden kernel]

Binding in motion system?

Why is it jagged that’s prolly why ur ghosting those look weird

[ripe spindle]

Dont feel anything when moving the toolhead by hand but its possible

Or its just monolith sheet metal not beeing build perfectly

[wooden kernel]

🤷‍♂️

They look weird

See how yours are jagged

[ripe spindle]

My theory is that the pins holding live shaft are tilted slightly cause im no perfect machinest

[wooden kernel]

I’m sure it’s built better than my machines

[ripe spindle]

Damn thouse are impressiv values for y

But yea i see the jaggered line

[wooden kernel]

The recommendation algo was having a field day

[ripe spindle]

Yea

But i think il fix it by doing nothing and waiting for monolith cnc to come out :)

[wooden kernel]

The strat might just be to do nothing

Sometimes it fixes itself

[ripe spindle]

Very possible at the very least it should eliminate the belt walking down and up on the bearings

[wooden kernel]

Oh that won’t go away

[river ivy]

Just to be annoying, but sweeping will give slightly incorrect results afain

[cyan haven]

Unrelated but is that for your Trident build or the K3?

[wooden kernel]

So will non sweeping

[wooden kernel]

K3

[ripe spindle]

Yea think il calibrate is by just printing a test print

Idk if im doing something wrong but ive never completly removed ghosting using input shape calibrate/shakentune

[wooden kernel]

Sweeping gave me the best results of input shaper to no ringing but everything is flawed

35k dun ring

[ripe spindle]

guess il try sweeping and see if that work better

but also maybe ive got a dead bearing somewhere cause im getting unfixable vfas .. one might have notices that im no expert at fixing vfas, im just throwing money at the problem and seeing what fixes it

[wooden kernel]

Vfas caused by everything

[ripe spindle]

oh yea

even looking at it wrong

[wooden kernel]

Fans are my main vfa

[ripe spindle]

i dont have a strategie but il try realy low and really high belt tension and seen where it gets worse

and just work my way from there

[wooden kernel]

High is better

[paper fable]

Change one thing at a time

[ripe spindle]

yea il do that

going from low (voron stock) tension to super high tension

then doing the same for speed/acces/scv

and just selecting what looks the least worse

[wooden kernel]

I’m willing to bet my belts are around 3x your tension

[ripe spindle]

oh i do not doubt it

but im already higher then most vorons have gone so far

[ripe spindle]

Runing low tension now and artefacts are bad. Going higher now and seeing if things improve

but the artefacts look different then ghosting that im used to, so maybe its really a hardware issue idk

[ripe spindle]

increased tension to max right now, and other then something clicking while tensioning the belts (im sure its fine :)))), lets see if it prints cleaner

[ripe spindle]

Thats now with max tension without tearing everything up to increase tension and it looks just as bad as low tension.

[paper fable]

These are some weird inconsistencies

[ripe spindle]

very much and its nothing ive ever seen

it looks like ghosting but then ot really cause with ghosting id expect to see basically perfectly vertical lines with that feature beeing ghosted. thats just not whats happening here

[paper fable]

Like ringing and not ringing, pa to high and to low,

[ripe spindle]

yea that as well

and also borth parts where printed with 300mm and 8k accels. that should be nothing for a printer like that

[paper fable]

@hot orbit might have a better idea of what could be happening

[ripe spindle]

yea maybe 😅 Also ive had dead bearings before and they are normally really crunchy and can be felt by hand. right now its printing and its quiet as always.

Checked belts with Shakentune. 97% belt similarity is good enough. Left graph is fine too, the right graph is doing .. something.

[wooden kernel]

these are both ringing but thats not all of it

print it with no fan

[vocal plaza]

I’ve seen weird PA issues with WWG2. Not say that’s it. But it’s possible

[ripe spindle]

Maybe its a hardware issue .. thats with a stock orca slicer profile. That littel high pitch sound is also new, but might just be because of the high belt tension

[ripe spindle]

Will do tomorrow 👍

[wooden kernel]

sound is an idler

[ripe spindle]

so normal?

[wooden kernel]

uh its a not happy idler but its not a major issue

[ripe spindle]

Failed half way through but one can still see some ghosting

[wooden kernel]

Ghosting fine but is there the tiny waves all across the surface

[ripe spindle]

any ideas what might be causing that?

[wooden kernel]

If it’s not the fans then maybe motors

See the same waves on mine

I think that’s fans on mine cuz they change depending on fans

[ripe spindle]

👍 i did have to abuse one motor pretty badly when building the machine so maybe its damage is showing now

[wooden kernel]

What motors you have

[ripe spindle]

omcs 17HS19-2504S-H-V1

[wooden kernel]

Oh I never used those but I know the ldo2504s vfa at many speed ranges

[ripe spindle]

the long round shaft once

[wooden kernel]

I know em

[ripe spindle]

my machine used to have awesome print quality but in the last month or so it got way worse without me changing any hardware

[wooden kernel]

Avg printer moment

[ripe spindle]

yea lol

but il remove the motors and check the shafts for runout, should be relatively easy to find out if one is damaged ( i hope )

[hot orbit]

The key in that last video(seconds 1 and 2) is that sound it makes when moving diagonal. It's a rumble of sorts. This sounds like an alignment issue/binding of the balls in the carriage. You can drop the motor amps to mitigate or play with driver settings.

[ripe spindle]

im going to check the motors first but its possible that something just came out of allignment with the print hours seeing as it pritned fine when i build the printer

especially with monolith sheet metal keeping everything alligned is a bit of a pain

[hot orbit]

You will get it.. that's the 'fun' of 3DP, ahahahahahahahahah

[ripe spindle]

Mhm i wonder why its not printing well. Its a real mistery.

[velvet zealot]

my oh my, did you do a rework on them mounts or they just moved out, thread lock maybe or to much ?

[ripe spindle]

Forgot to put thread locker on the screws holding that motor in and they all worked them selfs loose / fell completly out

Goes once again to show that when screwing two pieces of metal together in a high vibration area that threadlocker is a must.

[velvet zealot]

u using genuine gate pulleys?

[ripe spindle]

They pullies arent the issue here but the motors are using genuine gates and the live shaft pullies are from 3dkatten

[velvet zealot]

i know im just asking, is it the 1.5 or 2

just want know if its worth to get the 1.5 system i just finished doing some cad work and i want swap the gantry old pulleys with genuine gate pulleys

[ripe spindle]

2 .. like it should be.

You wont be getting any real improvment with 1.5 assuming you are using toothed pullies/idlers

[ripe spindle]

So print quality is better but its still not great. Got this kind of permanent ringing all over 🤔

[ripe spindle]

Sometimes I ignore problems because my mind is occupied by a different one. In this case, I ignored fixing z_tilt_adjust because I wanted to resolve the print quality issue first.

Now, the keen among you might be spotting an issue in the clip. Notice how the bed is going up and down—and up again—while the printer is printing this cylinder?

Turns out that when i installed the electrical cabinet i made a small error when connecting the z stepper.

Z0 and z2 where both driven from the same stepper driver and because of that z_tilt_adjust didnt work.

Print quality is now much better. Still not perfect but the filament is wet and i gotta dry that first before doing anything else.

[paper fable]

does this look good in just normal lighting

[ripe spindle]

i wouldnt say good .. it looks usable and the surface is smooth. im drying the filament right now and il print a cube again tomorrow and see how it looks then

[velvet zealot]

Jakob, since u are using m8p, are u using pt1000 for the chube?

[ripe spindle]

Im not using a m8p, got a octopus pro installed rn

[velvet zealot]

The previous set up was m8p?

Im trying to set up the pt1000 on the board and the document on what sensor type to use is lacking

I saw you has the chube and if im not mistaken it uses pt1000., an you look like you routed all your wires straight to the main board

[ripe spindle]

No?

Ive never used or owned an m8p mainboard idk what makes you think otherwhise

[ripe spindle]

I sadly dont know either but maybe someone in #voron_electronics knows more

[ripe spindle]

Switched from a cheap hardend nozzle back to my bozzle and wow what a difference.

[shy merlin]

Which is which

[ripe spindle]

left is bozzle, right is old cheap aliexpress special

[left vapor]

wouldnt have thought that it affects overhangs that much.. nice!

[ripe spindle]

yea its extremly weird

[left vapor]

i guess the flow is more precise and that affects the side adhesion of layerlines which helps with the overhangs... or something 😄

[ripe spindle]

yea or maybe its the thermal conductivity of the tc and that leads to a smoother extrusions .. or something

[ripe spindle]

Installed a box turtle io board. Pretty cool and handy and i wish it would have come with the ldo kit.

Just need to figure how to power it now cause im definatly do not want to power it with a deticated power supply...

[spring ocean]

why not? due to having a second power cable or the additional space it requires?

[ripe spindle]

Cause i want the box turtle to power off/on when my printer turns off/on

[ripe spindle]

Going to print all the required parts to install crossbow today .. going to be switching fro a g2 to wwmbg with dual filament sensor in the head.

[ripe spindle]

This extruder looks so good!

[ripe spindle]

Having the umbilical right where the cutter lever is, is not ideal ..

[ripe spindle]

Had to invert crossbow and drill a taper into the upper part so that the filament can feed into the cutter reliably without getting stuck on the lip. Also modified an existing part to allow for inversion in the first place

Got assembled and damn does this look so good!

Now the only thing thats really left to do is get propper cable sleeving to contain the mess of wires.

@junior nacelle check out what i just installed!

[spring ocean]

I think that still would be easily possible with a second PSU and a relay, like this one from BTT. (https://biqu.equipment/products/bigtreetech-reply-v1-2-automatic-shutdown-module-after-printing). You can connect the wall power going into the second PSU through it and connect the data lines to syour mainboard. Then you just need a macro that starts and shuts down the turtlebox.

[ripe spindle]

yea but instead of all that il just crimp a 2x2 moldex connector and connect it to my printers 24v 😅

i kinda overlooked that i can do that instead .. much easier then what im currently doing 😅

[spring ocean]

Ah well, as long as it works in the end and suits your needs!
How heavy is your toolhead now after adding the cutter? Or is the added weight negligible?

[ripe spindle]

i dont have an exact number for you buy the cuter and printed parts weigh almost nothing .. in the grad scheme of the toolhead i think its negligible.

Only thing im not 100% sure off if it effects COM negativly because it moves the extruder ~5mm up

[wooden kernel]

you know it

[sour vortex]

Any negatives with addition of cutter? With increasing toolhead height and higher sensor = more lever force right?

[ripe spindle]

well for one it messes a bit with com. maybe use a lighter extruder to offset that the extruer is higher up idk

[rigid apex]

👀 did you screw in a thermistor into the coldend of chube air?

[ripe spindle]

yep

[rigid apex]

neat. how its working for you? i guess you aint printing pla/petg, right?

[ripe spindle]

working well. pla printing requires a desk fan infront of the machine to keep chube cool

[rigid apex]

finally got 4 real motors on the way for my trident and was thinking if i switch toolheads. didnt know you could run Air passively 👀

[ripe spindle]

Works really well for asa/pc/pet-cf

[rigid apex]

i read some stories that fans like to die really quickly when you go ridiculous speed so i was thinking of cpap and splicing a little airflow off to chube

[ripe spindle]

Just dont use shitty cheap fans and they will be fine

[rigid apex]

I was told perma 100k accel und 50 scv eats any fan 👀

[ripe spindle]

Never heared that before

Not like people lie on the internet :)

But at some point if you want more speed just ho cpap

Going to go cpap with a custom slm toolhead as well

But il have to finish #1434612830614585476 first

[rigid apex]

Not a trident :/

[ripe spindle]

All printers are awesome :))

[ripe spindle]

Started printing parts for #1434612830614585476

[ripe spindle]

Rewired the toolhead today to have fans pwm controlled and also added some 'fancy' sleeving

[ripe spindle]

Seeing as my trident is taking forever to reach temps im finally doing something to combat the issue. Going to install 3mm thick neoprene gaskets in-between the frame and the structural panels to decouple them from each other. Maybe i can even beat@junior nacelle chamber heat up times. 🤔

The 40mm x 2mm neoprene strip will also finally seal the door against the chamber.

[junior nacelle]

I never thought about neoprene there but I think I am going to do the same

[velvet zealot]

why don't u use one of them bed fans mods they can be a game changer

[ripe spindle]

Bedfans dont do a lot if there are >30kg of aluminium to absorb (and then radiate away) the heat inside the printer (but yea ive already got them installed)

[ripe spindle]

really anything will work. Only thing that is important is that the (metal) panels dont contact the frame.

[junior nacelle]

Yep. Already planning to reprint the skirts to give me another 2mm. After I get the machine running though.

[vocal plaza]

What cold side temps does Chube air see when ran fan less

[ripe spindle]

a couple c above chamber temps

[vocal plaza]

What’s your chamber typically?

[ripe spindle]

depends on what i print but asa its 80c

[junior nacelle]

If I were to print PLA, it would be 80° too. Thats why I don't print PLA 😛

[sour vortex]

I wonder of smol chube works with calamity - im growing interested. should I cancel smol chube and get big chube instead?

[ripe spindle]

no it wont, calamity is only compatible with the big chubes

but if you want to get calamity go with takeoff instead! its apparently much better in the COM department

[sour vortex]

oops yeah I mean takeoff but dang thank you

[ripe spindle]

So Tridentbert is finally getting some good insulation installed!

[vocal plaza]

Did you see the northprint sale?

[sour vortex]

First time hearing abotu this website haha, I'm a west3d boy but thank you I'll check it out!

[ripe spindle]

Tunning scv right now and its soo fun seeing the machine zoom around!

[oblique lintel]

How much fan are you running?

[stark pendant]

What are you doing in order to tune it?

[ripe spindle]

50%

[ripe spindle]

just increasing values and seeing when i start seeing print quality issues

Ive also spend a couple days installing neoprene strips on all panels to isulate the panels from the frame.

Installation was super easy. Cut them to size, glued them on and then just drilled holes into the neoprene with a drill and a sharp wood drill.

Im really hopping that i can skip the external insulation with 30mm of pir on the inside because its looking so good atm

[oblique lintel]

I’m always curious with people running takeoff… when I ran more than 50% I got bad VFA’s

[ripe spindle]

yea same here

one of the reasons why i want to switch to cpap soon

[oblique lintel]

Yeah, I love the Toolhead, but hate that you can’t run 100% fan. There aren’t enough SLM Toolheads for Chube. I’m currently taking a break from it, and using Trinity with Chube compact. Trinity doesn’t have the same VFA problems.

[ripe spindle]

plastics do absorb vibrations a lot more then aluminum thats for sure. likely a reason why its an issue with takeoff but not with trinity

im atleast planning on going with El Fuego in the future

would be much lighter and also so much cooler looking

or maybe il wait and go with the monolith toolhead .. who knows really

[oblique lintel]

Yeah, I know… that monolith Toolhead looks awesome. I never wanted to mess with CPAP, but it makes me want to try! However, I do like that El Fuego uses Chube…

[ripe spindle]

water cooling a toolhead would be really damn cool

[ripe spindle]

yea and it can be water cooled as well witch i really like!

https://www.thermaltake.com/pacific-pr12-d5-plus.html is currently the pump + reservoir that i would go with if i where to go water cooled. simply because its tiny

[oblique lintel]

Oh nice! I’m currently designing a Trident build around Trinity, but should be adaptable to options like this down the road. I’m adding extra Z to the frame, since Trinity and a lot of other Toolheads are long.

[ripe spindle]

yea ive added a couple cm as well but i basically never print anything high anyways

Katten thankfully updated my order and im gonna get high temp cpap tupes as well now

[flat notch]

Do you think that PTFE insulator for nema works? 🙂 I ordered few for my Voron Trident.. Just for fun 🙂

[ripe spindle]

no idea but we will see 😃

[sour vortex]

So I’ve only just started looking into toolhead options and I see all these names - but they all look the same to me 🤣

Arnt they all monolith tool head?!

[ripe spindle]

monolith toolhead is the toolhead developed by wayne himself.

[ripe spindle]

So i just ordered something insanly cool for Tridentbert!

[ripe spindle]

Also ordered one of them Mellow LL Plus buffers to try it out!

[spring ocean]

'El fuego' toolhead? Where do people find these cool things? All on obscure github pages?

[eager star]

This looks like SLM order.

Probably some GIthubs, or it's not been released yet and it's on some Discord closed group only.

[ripe spindle]

yea its an slm toolhead that can be found in the monolith discord server -> https://discord.com/channels/1227971059764953230/1382552084490096670

it does suck a bit that everything open source is nowadays just hidden and cant be found via search engines :/

[eager star]

Isn't there some sort of nda involved?

[ripe spindle]

nope its totally open its just hidden away in the monolith discord

[eager star]

That's on author that they haven't published on Github

or Printables

it does not seem to have cad files available

[ripe spindle]

oh yea but all the discussion around that project is still lost, even if the project files are published

[eager star]

Lost discussion is better outcome than lost files 🙂

[ripe spindle]

that for sure yea!

[ripe spindle]

Well this sucks...

[molten mountain]

did you add this to your config? ```
[verify_heater extruder]
max_error: 120
check_gain_time: 25
hysteresis: 10

Would also recommend MPC for takeoff and chube if you are not already using it.

[ripe spindle]

Yea .. but its a hardware problem :)))

[molten mountain]

aw man that sucks...

[ripe spindle]

Its fine, I should have known better

[molten mountain]

rubbing on something?

[ripe spindle]

Yea rubbing on other cables is my theory

[molten mountain]

Mine are routed fairly similarly, however, I did sleeve most of them with paracord for this reason in particular. That does seem like alot of wear for just rubbing against the other wires imo.

[ripe spindle]

The fep cables are fine its just the chube heater and thermistor cables that failed .. not that big of surprise seeing as they arent exactly rated for it

Put some heat shrink arround the thermistor wire as the shielding is a tiny bit damaged as well and i just wanna contain the damage

Gonna replace them rather sooner then later but it will do for now

[molten mountain]

Heat shrink seems like a good interm fix until you can replace the thermistor out right

[ripe spindle]

Yea i hope it holds until i can install el fuego

[molten mountain]

If you ordered the parts for it from in3dtec they are usually only take about 2 weeks in my experience at least

[ripe spindle]

and its back :3

[ripe spindle]

yea the slm parts arent the biggest issue .. just need to find the time to fully remove the electronics so that i can install the ws9290 into the ebox

Guess that wasnt it

I do have some spars that im gonna install tomorrow

[vocal plaza]

70W gonna be enough?

[ripe spindle]

No idea but im gonna find out

[ripe spindle]

Connected the heater of chube to a thermistor port to check what readings im getting and ran a bed mesh (works cause a heater is just another type of resistor) and .. ive got questions 🤔
With the line at the top the heater works when the temps drop (so the resistance increases) the heater stops working.

[ripe spindle]

Took chube apart and the heater cable broke right there .. who could have guessed

[ripe spindle]

And we are back .. this time with more function over form :)

[desert escarp]

Should be good enough until your new shiny shows up !

[ripe spindle]

Yep!

Mostly just needs to be good enough to print Chubechanger parts

[ripe spindle]

Its not stupid if it works really well! 🥵

[flat notch]

I dont know why, but i think your printer looks like warhammer dreadnought 😄

[ripe spindle]

Dpd showed up today with a very nice (and big) box!

Other then a few small scratches and broken corners the foam survived the trip basically intact witch is nice to see!

[ripe spindle]

Cut one panel with a jig saw witch was easy enough (even if a little bit messy) but it fits like a glove!

And i then covered the panel with a aluminum foil witch looks awesome (even if its not perfect)!

[ripe spindle]

And panza delivered some presents today 🎅

Sadly the heater will now come tomorrow cause Fedex sucks 🙂

[flat notch]

And how about PTFE dumpers for NEMA17? I installed them on Z motor on my Trident and i think printer is quiter 🙂

[ripe spindle]

They are in the box as well! Will be a while before i install them as they are gonna go on #1434612830614585476 and i do still need to print a bunch of parts for it!

[ripe spindle]

gonna get Tridentbert backup and running later today.

[ripe spindle]

Looks stupid but im loving it

[ripe spindle]

Printed a full plate of TreeD pc pbt gf over night without any problems! 🥳

[ripe spindle]

Lets see how badly this is gonna go .. once again printing them out of TreeD pc pbt gf!

[ripe spindle]

Parts printed fine but i had to swap to a new spool witch was apparently still not yet fully dry as the color of the parts after the change are much lighter

[ripe spindle]

Installed the LLL Plus from Mellow today, its awesome!

[ripe spindle]

El Fuego toolhead just showed up and it is SO tiny holly hell! 🔥

[oblique lintel]

I can’t wait to see it installed! I might have to switch my plans and go CPAP….

Also… are these brackets metal???

[ripe spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-downey-jr-tony-stark-gif-26471287

[oblique lintel]

SLM?

[ripe spindle]

Yep

they are 100% gucii and nothing else lol

[oblique lintel]

Nice! I might do that too… I have a few things to get SLM’d so I’m looking to add things to the order

I’m also trying to figure out a way to make the bed more adjustable in the Y direction. I’m going to use Trinity, and they bed needs to move back like 25-30mm

[ripe spindle]

Its nice but like totally worthless. Plastics will work just fine for holding two pieces of alu extrusions together :D

[dull field]

did you buy in europe?

where?

[junior nacelle]

I believe he is traveling at the moment. It might take a little while for a response.

[dull field]

tk for the warning 🙂 cheers

[ripe spindle]

https://esaunashop.com/sauna-heat-insulation-ff-pir

And yea they ship to mainland europe with reasonable shipping prices

Think they charged me ~35€ for shipping for 5 sheets

[dull field]

tk for the fast replay

🙂

[ripe spindle]

Had my first failiure of the LLL plus from mellow today. For some reason it just stopped feeding filament and because of that the extruder ofc ground down the filament and stopped extruding correctly for a full layer :/

Could have been because the extruder gear on the lll plus was rather loose and it might have just shut down trying to feed filament without a sensor triggering ...

[desert escarp]

hows it working now?

[ripe spindle]

Only happend on the one printing. Seams to be fine now 🤔

[sour vortex]

Wonder if voron team will ever release an SLM machine so far loving SLM parts 😬

[ripe spindle]

lol

[sour vortex]

Desktop cncs prob more reasonable

[ripe spindle]

more like a new revision of their current desktop 3d printers 😆

[ripe spindle]

Going to print this tube and screw cutter jig for my dremel. https://www.printables.com/model/64586-rod-tube-and-screw-cutter-for-dremel

Lets hope that this model works cause it wasts like 300 grams of filament 😆

[ripe spindle]

Looks good and works really well, there is basically no slop in the system at all!

Onlything that i can already see is that there are no slots for magnets for the little adapter plate for cutting screws and because the fit is also quit loose it has to be held down by hand when cutting.

[leaden crag]

Magnets and cut steel may not be a great combo….

[ripe spindle]

Oh mhm yea true 🤣

[jagged garden]

didn't realize this thread was still going!

[ripe spindle]

ofc it is im just kinda bad with posting stuff 😆

[jagged garden]

oml this is scary asf

now i want one for a compressed air die grinder.

[jagged garden]

i'm looking into the LDO desktop CNC, it seems quite great honestly

[ripe spindle]

whats scary? never operated a dremel before?

[jagged garden]

well less than an angle grinder

rotary tools are bad by default for your health

[ripe spindle]

meh 🤷

many things are bad for your health

and i assume including 3d printers

[jagged garden]

sure, but at least one isn't violently bad for your health 😂 if it was an angle grinder i'd be especially concerned, but dremels are also bad

[ripe spindle]

whats suppost to be so violently bad for my health, if you ignore the disk breaking (witch has never happened to me in over a decade and wearing eye protection and not doing stupid shit)?

[jagged garden]

the issue is that dremels were never meant for tube cutting, at least this isn't tube notching

[ripe spindle]

who says im cutting tubes?

[jagged garden]

if you want to cut thick tubes & rods & screws, bandsaws are the way to go

[jagged garden]

I didn't say bad for you, I said that jig is scary

😂

[ripe spindle]

🤷

[jagged garden]

the jig specifically mentions tube cutting in the name, and even with the right cutoff wheel it'll break easily and send pieces

[ripe spindle]

im gonna use it and cut long round objects either with lol

[jagged garden]

source: know someone who almost lost an eye doing that w/o a 3d printed jig

[ripe spindle]

dont blame the tool for someone not doing their diligence and wearing propery eye protection

thats like saying lasers are bad cause they can blind you .. yea sure but eye protection is a thing that exists. use it.

[jagged garden]

no no that was with the goggles

angle grinders are much worse if you remove the spark/hand guard, but dremels are no joke either. And all the dremel clones aren't exactly regulated, same for the cutoff wheels

[sour vortex]

Hahahahahhahaa nice

[ripe spindle]

ey nice! i used mine a couple of days ago and its REALLY nice

and really not at all dangerous right @jagged garden ? 🤣

[sour vortex]

It worked awesome for cutting my titanium fasteners! Only set some shop towels on fire once….. the dremel attachment is spring loaded the disc itself can wobble if you use too much pressure hehe

The bolt does heat up and can melt the table a bit so heads-up on that

[ripe spindle]

yea ive noticed that as well .. might need to print the bolt holder part out of something much more heat resistent 😆

[ripe spindle]

Can yalls toolhead also play music? 🤣

[barren stag]

how are you routing cables into the chamber?

and also where does the insulatiuon go? the cad has no insulation

[ripe spindle]

dont need to cad up panels that i just stuff into the frame 😆

[ripe spindle]

like for the umbilical or what?

[barren stag]

umbelical, motor cables, bed cables, etc

just all the stuff in the chamber

[ripe spindle]

i had holes lasercut into the alu panels and also drilled holes into the electrical cabinet

[barren stag]

ohh cool

[ripe spindle]

Nothing complex ^^

[barren stag]

are you going to do the insulation like this

[ripe spindle]

yep

[barren stag]

i liek your printer mine is kind of inspired off of it

[ripe spindle]

thats awesome!

[barren stag]

i am also having an electrical cabinet on the side, 300 cubed build volume, etc

[ripe spindle]

for insulation you would idealy place it on the outside where it also covers the frame

[barren stag]

basically the same machine lol

[barren stag]

and it just gets squished between the panel and the extrusions?

[ripe spindle]

no like outside the panels so that you are not seeing either the extrusions or panels

the less alu is exposed to the open air the less heat you loose

heatloss from the alu extrusions is rather significant 😄

[barren stag]

could i see a picture?

[barren stag]

i do get this but i just dont understand the placement of the nsulation i was thinking something like the way foam tape is placed on a stock voron

[ripe spindle]

Like this but extend the insulation so that no alu extrusions are visible

[barren stag]

ohh got it that makes more sense thank you

that thing looks sick btw

[ripe spindle]

yea but ideally you would extend the insulation so that you can not see any alu profiles

[barren stag]

how would you put it on then?

[ripe spindle]

that setup was .. fine but not perfect. right now i dont have any external insulation

[ripe spindle]

If you use a rigid material, like PIR, you can just drill a hole and hold it with a bolt and a bigger washer

[barren stag]

ah ok. what about for the structural panels? are those just screwed in normally?

[ripe spindle]

yep structural panels are mounted normally

but do yourself the favor and extend the panels so that they cover the full frame

makes external insulation a lot easier

[barren stag]

why? wouldnt you want one of the slots on the 4040s to be exposed so you can clip on the insulation?

[ripe spindle]

just add holes to the structural panels in the right place that is als big enough for a bolt to go through it!

[barren stag]

ohh

smart smart

thank you this was a good talk i learned a lot

[ripe spindle]

i imagine holes here should be more then good enough to hold pir panels tightly to the frame

[barren stag]

only difference between mine and yours is that mine uses 4020s for horizontals its much cheaper

[ripe spindle]

yea i just went with 4040s cause ... like .. why not

[barren stag]

got it 👍 👍 ill fix my panels now

[ripe spindle]

also bottom structural panel makes motor alignment super easy! You should be able to just use mine seeing as yours is 300mm in xy

[barren stag]

loool that was actually the plan

i looked at your cad and was just planning on using your bottom panel haha

[ripe spindle]

good! Dont forget to add a ptfe spacer between the z motor and the panel. You dont want the hot panel to cook the z stepper

our z steppers are usually not class-h (180c coil temp) motors

[barren stag]

never heard of a ptfe spacer thats new

have you thought about ballscrews on Z?

[ripe spindle]

https://3dkatten.se/products/ptfe-insulator-for-nema-17-motors? .. thats a eu source but im sure they can be found in the us as well

act as a insulation to isolate the z steper motors from the bottom alu panel

[ripe spindle]

yea but why fix whats not broken ^^ lead screws have been working just fine

[barren stag]

oh i think you could just cut those with scissors and a drill at home

[ripe spindle]

oh yea!

[barren stag]

they do work fine but i saw it in a yt video a guy used ballscrews on Z

[ripe spindle]

and also ballscrews need to be super straight to not cause problems on their own and really good ball screws are $$$$$

[barren stag]

it was a cantilever printer so thats probably why it fixe the issue

[ripe spindle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kQZnSzZHD0 this one? 😆

I do wonder where MirageC has disappeared of too .. hope the dude is ok

[barren stag]

ah no it was a bed slinger with a cantilever

like the prusa mini or a1 mini

but thanks for talking with me i really appreciate it i have been confused about insulation and panels for a while now

[ripe spindle]

ye all good happy to help :D

[ripe spindle]

ye the thing is if you design around a systems constraints then thouse constraints wont be a problem. In case of the tridents leadscrews we allow a tiny bit of side to side wobbly on the z nut and do not fixate the lead screw on the top. that allows the lead screw to wobbly while not impacting print quality

if you tighten the z nut to the bed then yea you might have print quality issues

ball screws have issues that they are thick hard cold rolled steel that might just bend your frame into submission because they warp during manufacturing

there are super straight ball screws but they are hundreds or thousands of dollars per ball screw 😄

[barren stag]

ah. wos wondering wyhy the wobble was there

super nice design behind these printers

[ripe spindle]

oh yea, the base machines are pretty damn well designed for what they are

[barren stag]

do you know anything about using z2 preload rails on Z? i know its good for x and y because its more rigidity but for Z do you think it would have any effect on layer stacking?

[ripe spindle]

as far as i know no preload for z or z1 is what one should use

makes aligning the z rails a lot easier

if the rails are all high preload then getting the bed to move smooth is a nightmare

same reason we use no or z1 preload for y ^^

only x should use the hightes preload

[barren stag]

oh so the preload would mean things would have to be basically perfect

🙂‍↕️ 🙂‍↕️

what grease do you use for your linear rails?

[ripe spindle]

yea the more preload the less the carriage can move side to side

[ripe spindle]

you in the us right? whats your target chamber temp?

[barren stag]

100C

shhhh

80C passively

[ripe spindle]

https://www.lukeslabonline.com/products/rail-bearing-grease-two-step-process

[barren stag]

but eventually 100C if i can gather the budget lol

[ripe spindle]

and pick the right one for your targeted chamber temp

assuming you are in the us that is

[barren stag]

rn i have a realy big tube of mobil ep2 grease

that stuff looks good though

[ripe spindle]

yea at >80C chamber temps that just gonna end as puddle of lubricant on the bottom of the chamber

[barren stag]

sadly lol

[ripe spindle]

ideally you would use a grease that has a cSt of 40 - 50 at 80C

[barren stag]

https://a.co/d/06Scz1qC theres this stuff i looked at a bit ago

[ripe spindle]

or if your balling krytox gpl 226 is an option as well

but its $$

[barren stag]

too many options lol this is research i need to do on another day

[ripe spindle]

yea grease is a whole topic on its own that i know very little of 😄

im currently using beelzegrease, witch is a cheap gpl 226 knockoff but im gonna get the original in the future

and dont forget to repack bearings as well and not just rails

[barren stag]

funny name lol. that stuff looks really nice

-40c to 280c it should work fine

[ripe spindle]

yea but idk if boxy is currently shipping

[barren stag]

like the f695 bearings in the gantry?

[ripe spindle]

he wasnt for a while and idk if does right now

[ripe spindle]

yea

[barren stag]

i did not know yuore supposed to grease those

[ripe spindle]

for "normal" sub 70c chamber temps its fine to use whatever is in there

but at >80C that grease tends to run out of the bearings after a while

[barren stag]

ep2 seems to be good until 130C

[ripe spindle]

yesnt .. need to look at how viscas it is at what temperature

130c likely means that you can use it up to that temperature but it doesnt say how viscas it is

and it needs to be some level of viscas to stay in the bearing/rails

[barren stag]

oh so it might be like false advertising

well kind of

ykwim

im gonna look for that data then

[ripe spindle]

no not really "false" advertising cause it will still grease at 130c but it will behave a lot more like whater then grease

[barren stag]

dont the rails get hot when theyre moving though?

[ripe spindle]

if its a sealed of area thats "watertight" then it will happily grease at 130c as well but if there are any gaps its jus gonna run out

[ripe spindle]

not from the moving but from beeing in the chamber yea

thats why you need to use grease that fits your target chamber temp

ive learend that lesson the hard way on my v0 😆

[barren stag]

hmmmm alright thenn im going to go look for that and then fix my panels

thanks

family is calling bye thx

[ripe spindle]

baba^^

[jagged garden]

belted trident is such a cool upgrade.

[ripe spindle]

Yea but why fix whats not broken ^^

[barren stag]

whats the point of these extrusions here?

im guessing theyre just like temporary spacers or sokmething to reference while assembling the printer

also, does the extra hegiht of the frame help with the umbelical?

i am reconsidering adding an extra 50mm of height to the frame because then new panels would be pretty expensive, but if im going to have structural panels at some point it might be worht it

[ripe spindle]

yea just makes it easier to allign the gantry extrusions

but ideally you would have them from the bottom extrusion to the gantry extrusions

[barren stag]

do you find the extra 20mm of z height useful

[ripe spindle]

yep very!

[barren stag]

for what?

is it just the umbelical

[ripe spindle]

yea for the umbilical

the stock z hight is very tight

[barren stag]

👍 got it thank you

[sour vortex]

I know you sold your boxturtle to Mr duck but how was your experience using MMU with takeoff? Was there a negative that made you switch off? MMU is non negotiable for me and I want to start dabbling in tool head optimizing/ridgitizing eventually.

[jagged garden]

just go with toolchanger 😉

[ripe spindle]

My main reason why i sold it was that box turtle, atleast for me, only worked with a filament runout sensor in the extruder but that is a dealbreaker for me since the toolhead im planning to run does not support said filament runoutsensor

[jagged garden]

yeah most MMUs require cutters & extruder filament sensors

I love DualFS WWG2 for that sm ngl

with sls pa12 I was able to get tolerances good enough to get all 12 here working consistently.

[ripe spindle]

yea, thats something that i did not want for this machine

[jagged garden]

i definitely considered it and realized toolchangers are just superior

IDEX is more than enough compared to what most people need for functional parts

MMUs.. just so many things that can go wrong. Just buy a Bambu Lab or Creality K1 plus or something.

Or use BTT's new Klipper one

[ripe spindle]

yep .. having both is the sweep spot!

[jagged garden]

though having toolhead built-in filament sensors have been awesome

[velvet zealot]

U got the step files for the brackets holding the insulation

[ripe spindle]

Sure thing!

[ripe spindle]

Well looks like my beacon adxl is failing

[ripe spindle]

I have another beacon here it im going to install during the weekend. Also gonna check what adlx chip i need to gonna try and replace it on the board.

[empty obsidian]

i feel your pain i did this too, but know one knows .... but me ...

[ripe spindle]

Yea that mistake really did hurt lol

[spare meteor]

With VAT?

[ripe spindle]

Yep!

[crude token]

where did you order?

[barren stag]

What’s VAT

[ripe spindle]

The thing that pays for our healthcare and social services .. but vat is "value added tax"

[barren stag]

Oh so like sales tax

My total order comes out to $240 with belts and cnc monolith

No tax included, but shipping is free iirc

[ripe spindle]

No idea what the price without vat is. In europe products have to adverticed including vat ^^

[barren stag]

I think I like that more than seeing “Sales tax: $30” on the checkout page

But I think sales tax is less than VAT but at least you have free health care but enough about countries lol

[ripe spindle]

we europeans just dont really care about vat because we never really see it. buy something at a store? price on the product is the price you pay (so including vat)

i never understood that about merica why the price on the shelve is price excluding sales tax .. such a weird thing

[barren stag]

It excludes sales tax because sales tax is per state

I like that vat is included in the price

[ripe spindle]

yea true in europe vat in europe is a federal value thats the same across the country

[barren stag]

Maybe for some other reason but per state could be a reason

[ripe spindle]

yea maybe anyways printer talk .. or more like going to bed talk 😆

[barren stag]

Sleep tight man

[barren stag]

@ripe spindle what are these walls for?

also, how is your door flush with your frame? i have clicky clacky door and theres about a 3mm gap which i filled with foam tape between the frame and the door

also do you think you could send me the cad file for clips you use to hold the insulation on to the frame

one more question, does your umbelical enter the chamber from the side of the printer or from the back, and how do you hold the cable in place when it enters the chamber?

what im thinking of doing is having the toolhead board mounted near the entry point of the umbelical so that the wire running from chamber to toolhead board is the shorted possible

[sour vortex]

I think buildign both is my main take home point here heh

[ripe spindle]

to space the electronics of the printer structural panel to have space to add 40mm of insulation

[ripe spindle]

#1317580899184807976 message

[ripe spindle]

enters from the right side (since thats where the electronics are). Right now im using a badge holder to hold the umbilical up. The badger holder got a bit melty but still works fine

#1317580899184807976 message

[barren stag]

i asked the umbelical question before lol sorry

your printer looks siiiiick

for holding my umbelical i thinkk i might just use a ziptie hooked onto maybe a sheet metal block

my goal is to, eventually, have nothing made of plastic in the chamber (except fans). i am planning on makinng my own custom bed mounts out of sheet metal

sorry if im taking over your thread a little i have a very small room for error and its great seeing that we are both going down a similar path

electronics box is $100 which is a bit much so one thing i was planning is to make my own custom electronics box that is sheet metal and held together with brackets

i also really like your door

im thinking about just ordering the same panel 3 times with the holes in it for the enclosure because its going to be covered in insulation anyway

[jagged garden]

@ripe spindle After fixing up my V2(monolith preordered!!!!!) and finishing Froron (which are just mundane tasks left at this point that i'm too low bandwidth to tackle) i think i'm def going after a trident build in the near future

Do you think it's a good idea to base the build off your printer, or should I go with something custom like Froron was?

I'd say Froron has been a nightmare of compatibility issues for sure, but I've also learned a lot about designing through the process and am a much better cadder now

But it also seems like Tridentbert is one of the best tridents around here

[ripe spindle]

I wouldnt say that lol

There are a bunch of machines just like this one and mine is in a pretty sad state right now lol

I need to sitdown and fix the wonky y extrusions, cause they arent pararell right now

Takeoff is also only beeing held together by hopes, dreams and superglue

[jagged garden]

i meant design wise and mods / completion wise lol (not like completed in reality)

[ripe spindle]

Ah yea in that regard ive played the voron modding game to completion 🤣

[ripe spindle]

Yea base it of my printer / do it like everyone else in monolith discord beeing building tridents. 4040 frame + structural panels and some kind of com optimized toolhead.

As for structural panels laserboost now ofers dirt cheap powder coating in a couple of colors.

[barren stag]

on your printer, if the yellow on the insulation was foil wouldnt you want it to be facing the inside of the chamber?

[ripe spindle]

Thats just an adhesive backing

I put it on the outside to protect the foam

But Basotect is not that great of an insulator

You are better of with pir and make sure to also cover the alu extrusions, they loose a lot of heat!

[barren stag]

👍 I am planning to on 1 inch pir and maybe cork or something under the structural panels

[jagged garden]

that's some wild levels of insulation haha

I'm just using some simple 1/8" neoprene foam on the structural panels before screwing them into the printer

overall though i care much, much less about the chamber temp than y'all do

[barren stag]

My goal is 100C

After that I think there are complications

[junior nacelle]

Complications start way before then. we also don't discuss going past 80 to stay in line with the rules 🙂

[barren stag]

sorry

[open mango]

@ripe spindle Since you have a V2 and a Trident, from a multi-purpose perspective, which do you think is better? What should I consider when choosing one over the other? I'd like to know the pros and cons. Thanks for your help.

[gleaming helm]

Trident. Don't look back

[junior nacelle]

V2. Don’t look back

[barren stag]

Both. Don't look back

[ionic lynx]

If you are going to self source a higher speed build, trident is the way. If you want to buy a kit and maybe upgrade to a toolchanger 2.4 is the way.

Also, don’t do a 350 trident because you will have a slower machine that is less versatile for slow machine stuff

Belt lengths are no joke. It takes an absurd amount of mods on a 350 to keep up with even a mediocre awd 250 and a noodle 2020 frame

[open mango]

Yeah I want a fast machine with 350mm volume so then V2?

[ripe spindle]

It doesnt matter. Stealthchanger now has a v2 and trident option

Indx will work on both as well

Both can be modded to be insanly fast assuming a high enough budget

[ripe spindle]

Big machines will always be slower then smaller machines but with the righr mods it should be plenty fast (4040 frame, structural panels and 9mm monolith awd)

[open mango]

The main problem is that I cant have a tophat, so I would need to place the dock in a lower position, that would be impossible in a Trident since the toolhead doesnt have Z movement.

[ripe spindle]

atleat with indx you dont need a tophat

with stealtchanger you very much do