Building out a Trident 300mm Pro with Dragon hotend. I'm keeping the master buildlog here: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident
#Voron Formbot Trident 300mm Pro Build🔱🇺🇸
compact pike
I figured this was interesting because the Formbot Trident Pro is fairly new.
Here's where we are at the start: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident/step1
Voron Formbot Trident 300mm Pro Build🔱🇺🇸
glad jay
Awesome log! I’ll keep an eye out for any updates!
oak pier
Report back how the Pro version fares out.
glad jay
Is the Pro Version purely due to the added bonuses they include? It doesn’t add Z or anything as far as I can tell
compact pike
Yah, so the CBT Plus from Mpx has the added Z.
This has standard Z, but it does have Canbus + Tap + other accessories.
I still mostly wanna DoomCube it and/or Toolchanger it so I figure what I really need to do is get it up and running first and then I'll just get s'more extrusions and maybe change the Z at that point.
My hopefully-soon-to-be-offloaded Ender 3v2 has 250mm Z tho and I feel like the X and Y axes were mostly where I was wishing for more mm's but I do loves me some tall vase-mode things printed with a phat nozzle.
glad jay
Makes sense! Thanks for the clarification. I just hopped on board the siboor trident kit preorder - I’m also not usually having a need for more Z, and even if I do I don’t see a problem with just splitting the part and using dowels or something to connect the split pieces.
compact pike
Yeah, I'm curious as to how the Siboor Trident works out because that's a lot of deviations from stock.
glad jay
Yes indeed - will be trying to do a build log myself when I get it (if I’m not too ashamed of the mess I leave building it and actually slow down to take photos instead of chaotically pushing to the next step)
compact pike
Oof, this one is fun:
For my 300mm bed size build, I was able to spot the A extrusions (there's 9 of them) and then the B extrusions (there's 4 of them, with the particular set of holes). The C and F extrusions are the same length, the difference is that the C extrusion is tapped and the F is not. Then you end up with a pile of short extrusions. For the 300mm bed size, the H is the shortest, the G is only 2mm longer, the D is a bit longer, F is longer, then the rest. If you are building the even larger 350mm bed size Trident, the same sorting order should apply. Ideally the kit-maker should just label the darn things. However, the BOM generator should show the letters of the extrusions and the manual should contain the text I just wrote.
compact pike
So, there we go. Frame constructed. and squared using 1-2-3 blocks and clamps.
I designed the shelving unit out of 2020 extrusions to replace a IKEA wire shelving unit and I knew that the Ender 3v2 was going to be living there but I'd always had a larger printer in mind. I ended up looking at the size for a 300mm × 300mm × 300mm Voron 2.4 or a Jubilee printer or maybe just a CR-10, took the largest dimension of any of the three of them and used that to make a reference cube for the shelving design to make sure that it fit. And then I decided I wanted a Trident instead of a 2.4. So it was no surprise that it fits, but it's good that it really does.
hexed bay
How exactly do you use a 123 block for squaring?
compact pike
And, hm, lemmie explain maybe s'more?
So, 1-2-3 blocks are heavy and generally supposed to be fairly fairly square and flat.
Ergo, if you want it square, you can use an engineer's square or a 1-2-3 block but the advantage of 1-2-3 blocks is that you've got a lot of space to clamp against, plus there's the holes.
(not actually a machinist tho)
And then also 1-2-3 blocks are even more square and straight in reference to the other member or members of the set, which can help you make things very very parallel.
Okay, there's the A/B drive and idler section.
However, on the Formbot discord it was mentioned that some of the roll-in nuts are not properly sized... and it looks like I got some of the bad nuts.
To the left side is a genuine Misumi roll-in nut, which rolls in easy. To the right side is one of the bad nuts, and that's how they want to sit in the extrusion.
compact pike
Okay, buildlog chapter posted: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident/step2
compact pike
k, already got a message back from Formbot and they are sending replacement nuts.
hexed bay
Ergo, if you want it square, you can use an engineer's square or a 1-2-3 block b...
Thank you
compact pike
Okay, so I guess things are just screwed up.
I got some other nuts on Amazon and they are similarly bad.
Also, I'd really love it if https://github.com/VoronDesign/Voron-Trident/issues/28 would get fixed at some point because I thought I had written out a way to sort the extrusions, but I ended up wrong.
So, given that it's wiggled out of square and I've gotta substitute some extrusions, I figure the easiest road forward is to just build it as if it's a zero and pre-load a bunch of nuts.
compact pike
Okay, back to my BS. Y axis complete!
compact pike
So... hm, it just says to put an M5 nut in the three Z joints but I'm not sure what to do with it? The way that you install it, it's just going to fall out of where it sits. Later on in the manual, it seems like I'm putting an M5x16 bolt through there to connect things up, so I'll just do that now so it doesn't go flying.
compact pike
I wanted to get to the end of the Z axis section. It was a bit tricky getting to the end of the chapter but I guess it was either defeat or the feet.
compact pike
New buildlog chapter posted: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident/step3
glad jay
There’s a lot of discussion in the Siboor discord (we’re all waiting for our kits) about the z height on trident and a lot of people are planning extensive modifications to try to add z height.
I’ve decided against it for mine - if I need extra Z I’m thinking I’ll just build a doron velta or something 😄
Great log though - nice to see your progress.
compact pike
Yeaah
I have done some really neat vase-mode tall prints on the Ender 3v2's vertical height which is 250mm and so there's a bit of feeling like the Trident is an upgrade except for this.
Also, I don't have that big of a space for my printers so I need to keep things compact.
I mean also my first two thoughts were the LDO cubed kit or the MPX cubed kit.
It was feeling a bit tight assembling it yesterday just because the electric screwdriver was hitting the shelf above it which kinda pushes me towards maybe keeping it 250
Way I figure it, if I were to get a new set of 4040 and 4020 extrusions to do the Doom conversion, I could add a second set of wrench holes such that the gantry can be positioned for 250mm z or 300mm z.
glad jay
That’s fair! The Siboor trident kit has too many things that won’t be very nice for converting without a lot of effort or expenses.
I also have a Sovol sv06 as my first budget printer, which has 250z.
I rarely need more, and in those rare cases, I’ll start considering my available options
But I totally agree with the sentiment driving the decision
compact pike
Of course if you require a custom version then you can corner the market on them.
full grove
and I'd add cutouts of the panels
It'd mostly be for the bottom right and left corners so the MGN9 blocks wouldnt rub against them
I think i'd just need to machine off 1mm of the webbing in that spot
then also cut out clearance for all the panels
compact pike
Yah I guess but unless the corners are constraining the motion harder than just a screwed joint they aren't going to do anything more than the panels do.
full grove
pretty sure they would. corner gussets are very stiff
compact pike
Ugh, the M2.5x8mm screws to mount the DragonBurner SF are missing. :/
compact pike
It's looking like this cheap uxcell heatsink is just about right: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Aluminium-Dissipation-Heatsink-Cooling/dp/B071JT3ZHC?ref_=ast_sto_dp
It's got two ears that slide onto the DIN rail. Not like a clip, just permanently affixed. And it seems to be just about the right height to fit inside just fine.
I've been able to do a few pages out of the electronics section every day after work. It's almost ready for me to start powering it up.
compact pike
Okay, it's together enough that I the Pi's running so I'm provisioning all of the software stack with Ansible.
compact pike
compact pike
Okay, I thought I had a broken motherboard but it looks like it was just a bug in the config files.
compact pike
Okay, step 5 is up
I discovered this evening that ... I've gotta upgrade klipper.
compact pike
Okay, updating klipper seems OK, need to make sure that the Zero's parallel.
I wasted time because I'd selected PB12/PB13 instead of PD12/PD13 for the CAN bus pins. YAY!
compact pike
I got three versions of the part for the umbilical bridge for the StealthBurner toolhead from my cPIF provider. I got the version for the 2 screw cable chain, the version for the 3 screw cable chain, and then the version for the EBB SB2209 CAN RP2040 board. However, what I need is the Formbot-provided umbilical bridge for the PG7 gland.
compact pike
compact pike
compact pike
So, yah almost ready for the first print, finally? Motors all move in the correct direction, hot-end and hot bed heat, X-Y endstop works..
compact pike
Ugh, yep.
novel jolt
I got three versions of the part for the umbilical bridge for the StealthBurner ...
Formbot put umbilical bridge for the PG7 gland for you? I don't have it in my kit and I didn't get one from my PIF provider, so I printed one in PETG for now, hopefully it will hold for a few prints
compact pike
Oh yeah, that's in entry #6 which I haven't posted yet.
compact pike
stiff fox
that looks better 😉
compact pike
So, I had to dig into this, but you want to run probe_calibrate on a freshly configured printer with Tap.
compact pike
Okay, build log part 6 posted: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident/step6
Printer is presently running resonance tuning. I'm assuming that it's been shaken by the experience.
compact pike
Okay, now it's doing the thing where the head moves freaky fast like a good printer.
novel jolt
Why did you need to depin the can connector? It should go nicely through the conduit
novel jolt
Nevermind, I see why
novel jolt
How much of the conduit did you trim?
glad jay
Loving the blog! Been fun to enjoy while I’m tuning my new Siboor trident
compact pike
How much of the conduit did you trim?
What I'd ended up doing was moving the printhead to the opposite corner as where the umbilical was located, and then I trimmed the excess with a cutter.
In my case it was about 180mm of excess but who knows how consistent the conduits are?
compact pike
Okay, now I've got the 0.6mm nozzle on there and I'm closer to actually maxxing out the volumetric flow rate of a standard flow Dragon.
novel jolt
Why does Formbot kit needs this weird configuration for the hotend thermal sensor?
I mean why does it need spi_software* options while the sensor is obviously not using SPI
Also shouldn't rtd_nominal_r be 1000?
novel jolt
OK, checked SB2209 rp2040 schematics and PT1000 is connected to max31865 which goes to SPI. rtd_nominal_r should be 1000 and rtd_reference_r should be 4300 for PT1000
compact pike
Okay, this is ... interesting.
I switched to your values which seem to be correct as per Internet searches, but the temperature is the same.
I'm looking at the MAX31865 datasheet and I haven't had time to sit down and calculate but I think that it's configured based on the ratio between the nominal and reference r values and so the extra zeros don't matter.
Deckplate mounted. I removed all of the design deckplate supports on the back side and replaced them with https://www.printables.com/model/883096-voron-trident-inverted-electronics-slip-in-bracket
novel jolt
I switched to your values which *seem* to be correct as per Internet searches, b...
It wasn't the same for me at least when both hotend and bed are cold. Now hotend temp almost matches bed temp when it's cold
Out of curiosity, have you calibrated the input shaper yet? I see some vibrations in Z when calibrating Y axis, so I wonder if it's expected for tap
compact pike
I did SHAPER_CALIBRATE but didn't spend much time really tweaking it.
I'm assuming that's some version of expected? I've already got the Beacon probe and a new carriage printed.
novel jolt
I'm assuming that's some version of expected? I've already got the Beacon probe...
CAN version?
BTW, here's what I'm talking about
it is cleaner for X
compact pike
CAN version?
Naw, Beacon's USB only. Would be really convenient for my long-term upgrade plans for LDO's NH36 to not be a disaster product.
Okay, had a bunch of distractions this weekend but I've got a Beacon probe going.
Basically, I want to go over to a Dragon Burner hotend with Delta fans but I figured it would be better to change one thing at a time, so I yoinked the Tap mount, put the printed Annex mount on, and mounted the Beacon.
The difference in recommend accelerations is dramatic.
Also, the speed at which it is able to scan is amazing.
Only annoyance is that for whatever reason the Annex X-limit switch is ~1-2 mm too far, so it won't trigger. I have fixed it by taping a piece of filament. Quite confused as to what's going on there.
waxen fable
i've been lurking in this thread for a while and i have to stay i enjoyed this build process
congrats on the build and it looks awesome 😍
compact pike
Yah, this would have been easier if the LDO NH36 board wasn't a disaster. I didn't notice that the Fly SHT36 V2 board only supports a PT100 temperature sensor until I started moving everything over.
So I'd gotten the V2 thinking that the motion sensor would be "fun" and because it had the right motion sensor, which is kinda silly because the Beacon has the right one anyway. But what I want is the V3 because it'll work with a PT1000 instead of a PT100 and I can ignore the accelerometer.
Well, I guess not really because it doesn't have the MAX thermistor chip either
glad jay
I guess you’re stuck with the good old BTT EBB36 v1.2
I’m not using the max chip on my v0 with a PT1000 FWIW
compact pike
So, the intended goal is that I'm going to use the regular thermistor port to measure the heatsink side of the hot end and the MAX for the hot end temperature.
glad jay
nice! I wanted to implement that on my v0 but I only learned about it after I already had the toolhead board
compact pike
So, the metal lever zinged off somewhere on the Y endstop. I had exactly one substitute switch.. and managed to break it while soldering up a fresh one.
So I decided that it was overall "easier" to use this endstop relocate: https://www.printables.com/model/789996-y-endstop-relocation-mod-for-creality-limit-switch
And then meanwhile I swapped from PG7 to the PUG system: https://www.printables.com/model/378567-pug-parametric-umbilical-gland
Which is nice because I've got a non-janky corrugated sleeving, ironically from the Ender 3v2 that used to live there -- https://www.mcmaster.com/7840K72/
Only problem is that the PUG mount for the Trident has a space conflict with the endstop relocation mod, so it's kinda bodged at the mo.
compact pike
Ugh, well, I seem to have broken a second endstop, potentially my tape-method? So I switched it over to sensorless homing
quaint arrow
I just went through the entire log on your website. Super insightful, thanks
golden matrix
Did your canbus umbilical cable come with connectors crimped onto the power? I've just got tinned ends and I feel like there should be fork connectors crimped
compact pike
Did your canbus umbilical cable come with connectors crimped onto the power? I'v...
Nope. I got the recommended terminals from the sourcing guide spreadsheet and crimped them on.
Okay so did not bring my Trident but I am at Maker Faire this weekend and I brought stuff printed on the Trident and ran into two people with Voron t shirts including the designer of the Trident.
compact pike
Okay, things have been cruddy but I'm in the middle of finally getting a DragonBurner going on instead of the StealthBurner.
compact pike
compact pike
I think it's about upgraded? Mostly just need to make sure the wires are managed a little bit better and do a vibe check.
modern imp
There is nothing wrong here. The "crack" is where the two parts of the idler meet
novel jolt
There is nothing wrong here. The "crack" is where the two parts of the idler mee...
It shouldn't be that wide though
compact pike
Yeah, so what I'm going to do probably this weekend is to dismantle part of the gantry because there's something wrong with the Y axis and I figure I might as well put in Cleedlers while I'm at it?
compact pike
Okays, giant update to the buildlog: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident
fringe laurel
Okays, *giant* update to the buildlog: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident
Probably a silly question, but what'd you do with the red and black wires on the CAN cable? Mine didn't come with connectors and I got the same kit.
compact pike
Probably a silly question, but what'd you do with the red and black wires on the...
There are no silly questions! I put a pair of these connectors on them: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/molex/0191980006/279166
You can probably hunt down a similar connector, definitely from the hardware store but probably all kinds of places.
Important part is that it's around a #10 us stud and fits the wires.
fringe laurel
Gotcha, and what do you need to actually put em on?
I guess it's normal that the formbot kit doesn't come with them, doesn't make it any less annoying lol
compact pike
Yeah, so I didn't have the right kind of terminals so I just wrapped the wires around temporarily and threw those into the next Digikey box.
... it's kind of an edge case, yeah, because you can get away without but it's overall safer and more reliable to fork it.
fringe laurel
The wires appear to be soldered on the ends at least, but yeah
compact pike
So the crimper tool I have is https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Tools-11477-Ratcheting-Insulated/dp/B0069TRKJ0/
I guess what I'd probably do if I was getting a new one is maybe something from iWiss?
fringe laurel
Sucks that I didn't need a crimping tool up until the finish line lol
compact pike
There's a standard electrician's stripper/cripper/bolt-cutter/stripper that you can get that'll do the trick?
fringe laurel
I think I have that right here
Dunno which part is used for crimping though, if any
compact pike
Crimper tools are handy, albeit you really want to be able to do Molex Micro-Fit 3.0 and the various JSTs and Duponts too.
That's some, but not all, of my crimpers.
fringe laurel
The red blue and yellow dot sections are for crimping?
compact pike
Yep! And the convention is that whatever color the connector body is, that's the section to crimp with.
fringe laurel
Well that's funny
I randomly picked up this durex wire stripper at an estate sale months ago for like $5 and it happens to have the crimping part on it
Lucky me
compact pike
The irony is that my tool like that... I never actually use. I have a Paladin stripper that I like more, a klein wire cutter, and the yellow Titan thing has a ratchety leveragey thing that's easier on my messed up hands.
fringe laurel
-# If only formbot had the foresight to provide the fork connectors, I could have probably had this at least running tonight
compact pike
OTOH, it's easier to say "Get thee the standard electrician's tool" than to suggest you have my assortment of weird tools.
You can always just bend the wire into a J shape and screw it down.
fringe laurel
I did grab a good pair of Klein wire cutters since I didn't really have any cutters like that, so far their best use has been zipties lmao
fringe laurel
You can always just bend the wire into a J shape and screw it down.
Yeah, I guess I could cut the heatshrink and jacket like you did and pull up some more slack
I'm kinda dreading getting into the software side lol, it sounds like a pain
compact pike
Well.
Okay, so understand that professionally I manage a team of cloud infrastructure engineers.
I think most folks are OK with using kiauh
fringe laurel
I know the gist of everything but when it goes "okay so ssh into your printer" I just went "oh no"
compact pike
So my descriptions of what I'm doing with Docker are because the printer is dropped into an environment where I've got my home stuff provisioned like a low-effort version of my work stuff.
fringe laurel
Speaking of which, where'd you end up mounting the antenna thing from the cb1? (assuming you used it and didn't already have a cm4 ready lol)
compact pike
I got a CM4, because I'm an obsessive and wanted my printer to get provisioned the same way as my other pi's.
fringe laurel
Fair enough
The cm4 is a planned upgrade path but I wanted to just get this thing running stock for now
compact pike
So, depends on if you are on the edge of your wifi coverage.
Overall, you want it to not be close to metal.
But that's a short cable and the connector on there is only rated for 5 connect/disconnect cycles.
fringe laurel
Ngl the most I've done with docker is like.. install jellyfin on an android tv lol
fringe laurel
But that's a short cable and the connector on there is only rated for 5 connect/...
5? That's insane
compact pike
I also got into ham radio lately, LOL.
fringe laurel
Lmao
compact pike
But, yeah, that connector is entirely intended for a finished product where you would connect it once, hence why guarantee that it's better for more?
So you can get a little pigtail cable that goes from that connector to a BNC or SMA or N connector that's designed for more cycles if you, for whatever reason, want to mess around with antennas on your printer.
Oh! And the other pro-tip is that you'd probably want to power it up for the first time with only the controller board + BTT CB1 connected to the power supply connected.
So, basically, I first powered it up with nothing connected to the power supply to make sure it was actually putting out 24v, then I connected the controller board and pi and made sure that worked, then I added the toolboard.
fringe laurel
Toolboard meaning the CAN cable?
compact pike
Yah, the CAN cable and the pair of boards in the toolhead.
fringe laurel
Right
The two boards are entirely self contained and only connect to anything else via that cable
Or the USB C
compact pike
Yah.
fringe laurel
The USB is for doing something with katapult which you said you skipped, so
I still don't know what that's about if you can just skip it
compact pike
So, basically, there's two ways to program the toolboard. I forget if it comes pre-programmed with katapult or not. Some boards come with katapult pre-installed at which point you could just keep running katapult and never use the USB port.
My setup is that I don't use katapult and so any time I upgrade the firmware on the toolboard I have to plug it in via the USB port.
If you use katapult you can upgrade the firmware via the CAN port.
fringe laurel
That does sound like a pretty decent upside
I take it you skipped that because of the planned toolhead replacement?
compact pike
No, I skipped it because there's not a Docker container that somebody's made and I didn't want to make one.
fringe laurel
Ah, fair
compact pike
If we lived under fully automated luxury space communism I'd have completely rewritten software packaging for 3D printers. Unfortunately we do not and I get paid to deal with these problems at work so instead I find ways to make things work as closely to how I'd like without spending too much time so I can do art and other weird stuff.
fringe laurel
Yeah I tend to go down those rabbitholes lol
compact pike
OK, I realized I'd not mentioned the spade terminals so I just pushed an update to the buildlog.
fringe laurel
Oop
Good to know
I kinda just did this when I was getting the CAN cable out of the way earlier, does that look like a good spot? xD
compact pike
The Extra class ham in me points out that it's too close to the aluminum extrusions. It might be OK? I'd probably put it up against the top or bottom coroplast panel.
I made myself study smith charts and complex impedances and antenna design .... because it was better than doom scrolling, sorry. 😄
compact pike
So I'd printed out https://www.printables.com/model/389504-ercf-smart-filament-motion-sensor and had all of the pieces, except that I'd gotten an ERCF Binky board instead of the specified TCRT5000 sensor PCB... and it turns out that you can't just swap the two, so I installed https://www.printables.com/model/798186-ercf-v2-smart-filament-motion-sensor instead.
Also, put https://www.printables.com/model/704054-crusader-panel-braces-and-clips-for-2020-extrusion on the back panel since I figure that's not going to be installed and removed very often.
short prairie
did you formbot kit come kit the nevermore or did you have to get this printed?
compact pike
Oops, I never answered that question
It did not come with a nevermore, just the bits.
Update to the build log after 750 hours or so: https://www.wirewd.com/make/vorontrident/step8