Extruders General Chatter

[blissful barn]

Why does it "feel like a kids toy", the thing was in the mail today. Yet to try, but it grabs the filament good and seems to run smooth. Metal frame, gears are a mix of plastic and metal. I am confident the thing will work. (I will report, should I ever get it on the machine).
Few days ago I changed the idler gear on the "mini stealth burner" (I think this is how its called). A plain 8.3 mm cylinder with the 9.5 mm 17 tooth gear, this works much better already than two serrated grooves.

The issue is that the cylinder section of those gears was probably too small; at the same time the grooves too deep. As a result the squish of the plastic was not good enough. I could pull the filament through without driving the motor back. One groove removed improves it (not exactly the point of the two gear system :-), but it works better without the 2nd groove).
At some point the gears bottom out then the distance on the grooved side cannot become smaller anymore.

[untold ivy]

I use HGX extruder gears

They work great. And there are many different prints for them

[untold ivy]

This is usually a print issue. You may have to reprint your parts and check tolerances. Printer must be calibrated

[blissful barn]

No it is not a print issue. The driven gears cannot get closer to each other, than the pitch circle radius of the two gears. Here 0.5x17x2=17mm. :-). If the "filament transport knurled drums" are smaller than 7.6 mm there will be no grip on the filament.

[untold ivy]

Yes this is a print issue you need to reprint the parts

You really have to make sure you printer is calibrated before you print these parts

[blissful barn]

The gears are not printed.

[untold ivy]

Its not the gears it's the part that holds the gears

[blissful barn]

Nope!

[untold ivy]

Okay

Cw2...

[blissful barn]

I try to make a sketch to explain.

[untold ivy]

I understand what you are saying..

Its fairly common for cw2 if you printer isn't calibrated correctly

For the filament to slip

And not get grip

[blissful barn]

When the gears botton out on the teeth (my calculation above is wrong, 4am...). And the cylinders are too small, the filament can slip. There is still "movement" in the plastic parts, but the gears are in their closest possible position.
I checked bondtech clone gears from another source and they have a more shallow groove & bigger cylindrical part. Yes: after messing about with the gears I calibrated completely new.

[blissful barn]

What I did: replaced the idler with a "no groove variant" and recalibrated. (at least it seems to work, without having researched to the bitter end) Calibration was repeatable and prints finish, without "air printing".

[icy orbit]

Does anyone know of a lightweight extruder that has a latch like clockwork 2 ?
The actual Sherpa, Orbiter etc need 2 hands to load filament (one pressing the arm and another pushing the filament inside)

Sherpa Mini with a latch would be neat.

[deft flame]

I'm trying to understand the pros and cons of Orbiter 2.5 vs Galileo 2. I understand it's single and dual gear, and more or less understand the differences, but I'm not familiar with the specifics here. Why would I choose one or the other? (Undecided on hotend but will be a stealth changer so might be different ones.)

[ruby pumice]

Which toolhead do you plan to use on the SC?

[deft flame]

Yavoth

[ruby pumice]

I think it is hard for most of us to testify which is better, I believe the Orbiter can produce more push force for obvious reasons. I run both and judgement is still out.

So probably most important is which format you like. Orbiter is pre-built and generally not rebuilt into anything. Whereas G2 can go into SB as G2E or on top of most other toolheads as either G2SA or WWG2. I'm planning to do SC with WWG2s on top myself.

If I were you, I'd evaluate my toolhead filament sensing needs before deciding too.
Also prob better to ask on the tool changer discords as they may have more sage advice

[deft flame]

There was a conversation yesterday on the SC discord, but nothing really pointing a direction there. Different people had different ones and liked them but none really could compare a reason to choose one over another either so I thought the extruders discord might have more sage advice, haha

I've found I can get sherpa mini the cheapest. O2 and G2 about the same price, so there's that

[ruby pumice]

If you are building a SC, cost is not a consideration

Yeah, other extruders are slightly cheaper, especially when you multiply by number of toolheads. But I calculated it, not MUCH cheaper, since G2 and Orb both contain the motor too.

Up to the builder though, not sure you want to build such an expensive printer and put the cheapest possible extruder on it

[deft flame]

Yeah, it's not necessarily about cheapest possible, but if there's no disadvantage, why not (the more tools the more it matters.) A few similar convo heads have me thinking of upgrading to the less cheap shperpa with bondtech gears....if I'm going that route, maybe getting 3 sherpas and 3 g2's is the way to go since I can't seem to decide and they're the same price.

[thorny cape]

Neither one of those require any hands to load filament. If the tip of filament is cut at angle or sharp like a tip of a pencil, all you have to do is push in filament until tip gets in the gears. Then you do an extruder command. Maybe you need to push the filament a bit in beginning to get it going.

[icy orbit]

Gotta try that, hope it's not requiring too much force to get a good first grip of the gears and that ot works with Bowden tube installed.

[thorny cape]

I have been doing it like this for a long time, since someone else told me the same thing.

Key is to have a sharp enough tip that gets between the gears so that when you push filament during loading, it gets pulled easily.

[versed wraith]

@umbral scroll I am able to fully tension it, and it does not slip there

[umbral scroll]

it's probably the latch part that catches on the screw being worn down too much or the arm expanding a bit, you'll have it bouce when you have it tightened and push down on it

[versed wraith]

Possibly, but I've been using this extruder for less than 10 hours printing time

[umbral scroll]

I know this is diff and it’s unlatched

But see if you can push that down/ bounce it

And see the thumb screw also move inwards when you push it down (while latched)

[versed wraith]

I can do this fine

[umbral scroll]

Like you can bounce it?

[versed wraith]

Uhh

[umbral scroll]

(With it latched not like my vid unlatched)

One sec let me latch it maybe that’ll be a bit easier

[versed wraith]

No, when it's latched it doesn't move at all

I have an inkling of what the problem is

From playing with it just now

[versed wraith]

When I tightened the motor down, I think i damaged the housing

[umbral scroll]

Hmm

Isn’t there a heatset there

[versed wraith]

I should check

But not sure if it can be adjustable with a heatset

[umbral scroll]

Oh wait you might have it reversed

[umbral scroll]

There should be a scre head there and it screws into the motor

[versed wraith]

i reversed it, i had it the correct way originally

[umbral scroll]

• chain thing

[versed wraith]

i must have lost an m3 washer, or never put it in

which would explain why the motor kept slipping out of alignment when placed under stress

[umbral scroll]

Well I didn’t expect that

[versed wraith]

which would cause inconsistent extrusion

and it to stop working after a while, which is exactly what i saw

[umbral scroll]

Yeah that might not be optimal

Also if that’s the fysetc gear check alignment with filament path

And see if you had washer come in the pack

Iirc they usually have a small washer in front and in back

[versed wraith]

its the formbot, and everything is good, i have a whole bunch of spare washers

[umbral scroll]

Did the extruder have anything in the gear bag?

If not then don’t worry about it

[versed wraith]

probably, but i've mixed up everything now so i wouldn't know tbh

[umbral scroll]

It’d be a really thin shim

Like 0.1 or 0.2mm

If nothing sticks out then probably not + doesn’t matter too much anyways

[versed wraith]

Eh, I'll find it if it's in the box

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it

[deft flame]

I'm struggling with choosing extruders between Sherpa mini (it derivatives) , orbiter 2.5, and wwg2. Largely because I can't really figure out what the pros and cons of each are. I get that they're all great but what is the reason one might choose one or the other?

[mellow cradle]

at least a few reasons, I'm sure they are not exhaustive.

orbiter 2.5 = commercial extruder, no printing/assembly required, just pop it on and you're done.
wwg2 = you want galileo2 but in a bolt on extruder on the top type format
sherpa mini = lightweight/skeletonized, uses standard bmg gear drives and minimal printing required.

[deft flame]

Does anyone know for orbiter 2 smart sensor, what the nuts and washers included are for? I couldn't find any docs for assembly and am going by a single YouTube video that didn't mention them

[high spoke]

Any thoughts on WW2 vs Sherpa Mini? Mainly for print quality I guess. I don't print flexible's, just PLA. No crazy speeds, building a Dragonburner soon and installing Dragon Ace, so maybe 30ish mm3/sec?

[shadow plinth]

Why is there always a 1/2mm gap at the top of Stealthburner and clockwork 2?

[raven pewter]

https://github.com/SartorialGrunt0/Awesome-Extruders

Ive been working on this list on and off for a few months. Let me know if you have any recommendations or extruders I missed.

[tepid totem]

Maybe this is a dumb question but I have a 12 tooth Nema 14 motor and I’m wondering if it would be fine to use it with a clockwork 2? The gear pitch seems the same so my thought was that I would just need to update the gear ratio/rotation distance

[raw compass]

look mom, I made to the list 😄 😄

[raven pewter]

I’ve had this same question and haven’t tried it. I suspect the spacing between teeth might be a concern with gear meshing but I’m not sure.

Been debating just picking up a DXC extruder to use it with.

[subtle moon]

Hey guys, I have a LGX steel drive train set I would like to put to use. Are there any opensource extruders that use this gear set with a filament sensor?

[raven pewter]

How different are they from HGX lite gears?

[subtle moon]

honestly I am not 100% sure on this. I heard the HGX lite gears are clones of the LGX lite but I am not sure if this means they are they same gear sizes.

[raven pewter]

Hmm ok.

Check out “round trip”

https://github.com/chirpy2605/voron/tree/main/general/RoundTrip/LGX

[subtle moon]

thanks!

[full pebble]

Would I be able to use the internals from a BMG copy to make to the Clockwork extruder?

[ruby pumice]

Clockwork or CW2 for SB?
Yes if you have all the parts the yeah, see the SB assembly manual to see which parts are used.

Also, #afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

[full pebble]

CW2

[ruby pumice]

Yeah, most parts lists just say "BMG kit" but doesn't break down the parts inside. So yeah look in the SB assembly manual to see what is used. It's something like this
https://kb-3d.com/store/bondtech/484-bondtech-bmg-extruder-internals-kit-build-your-own-1645151327973.html

I think the things in that picture are the minimum required

[broken fossil]

I am trying to find the right discord channel. I am putting together my 2.4 and I am looking to put a rapidbuner toolhead on. I am using a WWG2 Extruder, and a Rapido 2 UHF. Looking at Chirpy's GITHUB, it is all over the place. can anyone point me the right direction?

[ruby pumice]

#1182811180566331432

[proud stirrup]

Anyone seen a comparison of these two CNC sherpa mini extruders? I haven't found anything

[rustic ingot]

Same bmg style of extruder. Expect the same performance

[indigo swift]

I have an older style stealthburner and I am considering reprinting the whole assembly due to potential fatigue and inserts showing signs of coming loose. Is abs still the right filament for longevity of the parts?

[native rapids]

yes, or ASA

[indigo swift]

Question: my stealthburner isn't grabbing filament anymore, the motor spins, I took it apart and couldn't find anything blocking it, is there some trick or thing to check that will make it obvious whats up? The idler arm moved freely

I can freely pass filament through to the hot end and it extrudes, even when closed up. It does seem like the top latch isnt snug however

[ruby pumice]

Check to see if that arm is cracked, that's the most common
BTW #afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

[indigo swift]

Arm wasn't cracked, I think there was powder in the arm socket and it was preventing the arm from fully depressing against the filament

The grub screw was also a little loose and I feel great sadness I have no thread locker and I'll be tightening it again next year

But I'm resembling and I'll see how it performs now. I also found a ton of bolts loose and things misaligned, depression took a few years out of my printing but we're back baby!

[arctic flint]

I'm working on a V0.2 made mostly from leftovers from my 2.4 (which got way out of hand). I have a spare standard BMG gear kit for a Stealthburner/Mini Stealthburner + the usual stepper. Are there any alt extruders I can use it with without needing to source anything exotic beyond the usual spares one accumulates? I think I can do the Sherpa Mini 2?

[ruby pumice]

Sharkfin is excellent
🦈

[arctic flint]

The aesthetic has me sold - it'll make the cat cowl on the Dragonburner I'm putting it on look like it has a mohawk

[carmine narwhal]

Hello. I am sure this is my fault for not utilizing the PIF program, but I am not sure what I need to move forward.

[native rapids]

what issue are you perceiving? parts not fitting?

[carmine narwhal]

@native rapids cant get latch to close. Looks to me like it has interference in the picture and never going to close. I have had to get some of my printed parts replaced and have lost confindence that I even have correct printed parts for stealthburner. Not sure I have all the resources I am supposed to have for assembly, but I was moving forward until I started experiencing problems with my printed parts

[native rapids]

do the parts have any sort of elephants foot that you could trim off?

[carmine narwhal]

@native rapids i think the black plastic inside my blue circle is keeping the latch from closing. Seems like a lot to remove to me. Maybe one of my parts is wrong?

[native rapids]

if all the parts were printed from one file source then different versioning is unlikely

your latch and shuttle look like the current versions

[carmine narwhal]

Thank You. I will remove enough material for it to work

[ruby pumice]

Just FYI for the last two posters....
#1182811180566331432
#afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

[wintry dew]

I would suggest reprinting replacement parts as soon as you can as well. The latch is the newer stronger version and I would not recommend removing material from it and I would take it from the other side.

[ruby pumice]

Definitely don't remove material, that i the part most prone to breaking

[pallid grail]

So I have my 2.4 (LDO kit), running the steathburner clockwork2 combo with a Revo hotend and TAP installed. It just doesn't seem to have any power to push filament, despite having a run current of 0.85, which I understand to already be high.
I also want more temperature at the nozzle, so I'm naturally looking at the revo high temp hotside. Should I be looking at a different extruder for more power, or maybe an entirely different setup altogether?

[ruby pumice]

How fast are you trying to print? I'm not sure Revo is ever fast enough to outrun CW2

[pallid grail]

Even pushing 20 mm3/s of PlA with a high flow 0.4 is too much and it starts skipping. Shows I have plenty of heating capacity left, rarely above 80%.

Is it possible I have an issue with my CW2 somewhere then?

Swapping drivers never changed anything, did that a while ago.

[ruby pumice]

Yes, it should have no problem going that fast. Hop into the right channel and check the pins for the videos to inspect the details of CW2 assembly. #afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

Maybe it is the famous anti-squish

[pallid grail]

I jumped over there for troubleshooting, thanks!

[carmine narwhal]

@wintry dew @ruby pumice @native rapids my latch snaps shut now. Thanks

[rancid forum]

which off the shelf extruder is best for flexibles like tpu 80A 70A

[ruby pumice]

Is there a budget?

[rancid forum]

lets say no

[ruby pumice]

Seems that nobody knows. Just not enoguh people watching this thread and the number ot people who take TPU seriously is probably low. Maybe consider Orbiter2, but also the Bondtech large gear extruders, like LGX Lite Pro which has multiple tension adjustments

I'm building a machine where TPU will be one of its jobs, using a Orbiter

WIth WWBMG, can you use standard BMG set like from CW2? @twilit solar

[river basin]

OG Ww-BMG says BMG or RIGDA Gear Set in the BOM

[wintry dew]

@ember thicket I'm wondering if you looked at adding filament sensors to the ProtoXtruder 2.0?

Also, this seems to have quite a bit of play.

[rancid forum]

i have ordered a orbiter 2.5 with my voron kit i am going to put it on my custom toolhead hopefully

[ember thicket]

Yes.

1. Extruder entry sensor: The extruder is too compact to directly cut out a built-in sensor. I'm still thinking about how to make one.
2. Toolhead sensor: I've made some tests on a spacer under the extruder with a built-in sensor. Seems to work fine. Just need to spare some time to clean up and upload them.
   Thanks.

[wintry dew]

I'm wondering if a small PCB with a detector switch can make both low profile: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ESE-13V01D/822259

Or other similar switch.

Like this one can full stroke but then you need to deal with wear:

[ember thicket]

It's intended to have some slightly larger clearance to fit different prints. It should be fine to have that gear floating a bit there.

[ember thicket]

I'm more interested in using only common hardware. Also I have no experience making custom PCBs.
But I'd be super glad to see if anyone with better skills can take the CAD and make a sensor for it.🙂

[wintry dew]

I can handle the PCB stuff if we can find a nice one and a swich with enough force.

[ember thicket]

That would be great! But sorry I have no further experience other than common mouse switches and button switches.😅

[wanton sandal]

would anyone know the weight differences of, wwBMG wwG2 vs Sherpa mini CNC?

[raw compass]

up to 20 grams

the weight is neglibile. G2 is the porker out of all these, CNC Sherpa is the best out of these because of metal frame but uses same gearset fit for RIDGA WWBMG extruder and I have made IDGA version for it which is essentially same shaft but idler teeth and filament teeth locations are swapped on the shaft

should you want to go for MMU, many recommend getting RIDGA parts and A4T extruder with filament sensor cutouts

for TPU etc, CNC Sherpa is against best out of these due to it's properly machined and depends less on your printer's accuracy and material tuning profiles. out of printed extruders they all should function just fine. my IDGA WW extruder mod pushed 95A TPU close to 30mm3/s with Peopoly Lancer Long without any issues through a 0.5mm nozzle.

there are more to extruders than just weight

[wanton sandal]

Cnc sherpa is different from cnc sherpa mini?

[raw compass]

its the same, im just lazy. Sherpa Mini and Sherpa Micro are different extruders. CNC versions are 99 times out of 100 always better

[wanton sandal]

Thank you for the insight

[alpine haven]

I upgraded from Afterburner to Stealthburner.
I replaced the stepper to LDO nema14.
I have issues with under extrusion for the infill. I think it is due to misalignment of the gear as I didn't adjust it and noticed that it was a bit loose.
I see over AliExpress Orbiter upgrade kit from 2 to 2.5. I believe the Galileo 2 is native to Voron.
Any insight what gear would be preferable to buy for an upgrade?

[native rapids]

Galileo 2 is a very nice upgrade to a stealthburner toolhead

[ruby pumice]

And I rally against trying to buy yourself out of problems 🙂

[wintry dew]

Orbiter =/= Galileo

They are different extruders and the one in StealthBurner is Clockwork 2.

[ruby pumice]

Yeah, G2 is in no way "native" to Voron

[alpine haven]

Is there a kit without the motor that is recommended?

Is there another popular replacement other than the G2?

I am running with umbilical

[ruby pumice]

OG BMG gearing (CW2 spec), IDGA BMG gearing (CW2), and G2E are the primary choices if staying on SB

#afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions btw

If you want to reuse the motor, IDGA is probably your best choice. G2E will not accept the 10T motor, it's has different gearing on the same motor

Recommend you just buy a real Bondtech set as it's pretty important for your results and not that expensive

[raw compass]

I'm at a point where I could use some extra torque. due to possible chamber temperatures of 70+C and me not having a HT stepper for extruder, can I replace the drive gear on the stepper? I figured the shaft is 2.5mm and there seem to be options for it both in brass and steel/iron. current gear is 10T, so going down to 8T or 7T would make sense if I dont want to add heat created by amperage. currently its set to 0.7A at 24V, stepper is stalling at 75mm3/s with ABS+ at 290C. what do, cheapest possible route 😄

[molten lily]

75mm³?

What extruder are you running?

At that point 48v is probably something you could start looking into

[copper light]

Hey-hey, people! Marry Xmax. I have a favor to ask, if possible. I'm as lazy as one gets. I bought voron 2.4 as my 2nd printer about 3 years ago. Aaand I have not done anything with it. It just works. (okay I installed cliky probe, cuz the metal sensor one never worked for me). So I saw the "Tool changer" mod for voron and kinda want it. So the question is... what toolhead + extruder combo should I get? not stealthburner. I tried researching it, but there are soooo many options and I'm getting overwhelmed by them. Please advise

[native rapids]

tool changers are not really for lazy people

but a better channel is #multimaterial_and_u

the combination rests upon which toolchanger method/system you choose, so

[copper light]

Yea, that's the problem, I hate choosing 😄

[native rapids]

stealthchanger, madmax, etc etc

[copper light]

I can dedicate time and effor for the assembly, but not reasearch of what is best. 😄 "MADMAX"! Thanks! I've been looking for the name

[native rapids]

it's still a niche of a niche, so some research is going to be required

[copper light]

I liked the design. Will go with it. Again, many thanks and merry christmass or your equvalent of holiday this time of year 😄

[native rapids]

https://tenor.com/bNQKp.gif

[molten lily]

Madmax is awesome.

[raw compass]

yes. I'm currently using my own mod for WristWatch extruder with MK8 drive gear and smooth idler. it started as an IDGA mod for WristWatch but 3 weeks ago I found MK8 drive gears from Ali and decided to order them and give it a try. so far I'm super happy with how it performs with TPU and harder plastics. had to increase the internal diameters a bit to fit the MK8 gear, rest is unchanged as its mounted on the same shaft with the 50T gear that BMG sets use. total cost for the gearset and bearings are like 7€. "rotation_distance: 4.05" with 10T stepper compared to 4.45 with RIDGA/IDGA, so there was some extra torque to be gained.

yesterday I had alonger ABS print going and after that I quickly re-energized the extruder stepper and took the measurements after some time. stepper peaked 86C in about 60C chamber, it's at 24V 0.7A. I have thought about 48V but CAN toolboards dont support it as it seems. other option would be to get 8T stepper or swap the stepper gear out by myself for 8T or 7T but can't find them anywhere for 2.5mm shaft, all offerings in the internet are for either 2mm or 2.3mm so redrilling would be needed should I order some.

[burnt fjord]

Is there any difference in performance between sherpa and Wristwatch BMG?

They’re both BMG gear’ no?

[velvet solar]

Just got a Beacon rev H and about to switch over from Dragon burner to A4T. I'm currently using CNC tap and wondering if it is worth having both Tap and Beacon? I have the space available on my toolhead board. I think I saw that tap is a little more accurate for z offset.

[thorny cape]

No need for Tap and Beacon since Beacon has "contact" probing - same thing as Tap. Just use Beacon, it is perfect.

[velvet solar]

That is what I have been leaning to. Tap has been working perfect for me just a little slow. I should get some more rigidity out of just doing beacon.

[ruby pumice]

I like Tap myself and have no plans to uninstall it. Up to you. If you've never done Beacon, I can suggest that as a learning experience since it's so popular now; I just installed my first one. Why are we talking in the Extruder channel? 😉

[cold epoch]

what is e steps and gear ratio on clockwork 2

[native rapids]

gear ratio is 50:10, stock rotation distance is 22.6789511 (will need calibration)

[cold epoch]

how do i change e steps in klipper if its posible

[native rapids]

we don't use e-steps in klipper, the term is rotation distance

you would use a calibration tool like https://tools.takuya.wtf/esteps.html

[cold epoch]

yes but how do i change the code for klipper to do the change

[native rapids]

open your printer.cfg in mainsail or fluidd's web interface. find the appropriate line of code. make your change. save and restart the firmware.

[cold epoch]

ok

[native rapids]

i presume this is not for a voron

[cold epoch]

well for stealtburner cw2

[neon dragon]

The red graphs are hotend temperature and power during temperature calibration print.
The hotend is rapido plus 2.
Before this print i've performed the pid calibration and saved the config.

I suppose the instability is not normal.
What can be the problem?

[neon dragon]

After more search i've found that manually reducing pid_kp might help
The difference is immense (this is a different print, but the picture is clear)
For now i will continue monitoring, but i assume the problem is incorrect pid calibration

[wintry dew]

Or is this the print cooling fan turning on?

[neon dragon]

The print cooling fan was on the whole time.
The instability was present even without printing in process, when setting hotend to a temperature.

[lofty abyss]

guys can you share your own orbiter v2.5 rotation distance i want to compare it with my calibration

[void sequoia]

Hi all, is there a specific good go-to for HGX 2.0 gears? I’ve had a couple of these running with great results for a while now. I bought two more set of gears and they’re not concentric. Thanks.

[wintry dew]

Ohh, what body is that?

[void sequoia]

My own design. Wanted an LGX Lite but didn’t like the price. 😂

[wintry dew]

I like the design. Is it shared anywhere yet?

[void sequoia]

Not yet. It’s pretty much done, but I want to make sure my gear distances are based off a gold-standard gear set and not just any random set from AliExpress or Amazon. I’ve gotten wildly undersized gear sets before so I want to make sure I have a specific brand that I can recommend.

[wintry dew]

@raw shadow and I had been recently talking about the gearset as well. In the protoextruder 2.0 I made, I'm not sure how much the second gear will do for driving and I'm considering making it with a smooth idler.

[raw shadow]

that looks great!

i like that extruder

[void sequoia]

The first two sets I got from Haldis on Ali are currently the best and don’t seem to have any issue. Just want to be sure.

[low crater]

Looks really cool

[void sequoia]

Thanks!

[meager isle]

printing an extruder in a gf/cf filament... good idea, bad idea, doesn't-matter-all-that-much idea? My only worry would be the abrasiveness of it might mess with feeding filament, but that might be overthinking it

[molten lily]

Doesn’t matter at all. Make sure that it is somewhat temperature resistant though or you will have to lower your extruder motor current

[meager isle]

cool cool. shouldn't be any worse than what i run normally--going to use gf-asa

[elfin granite]

hey does anybody know where i can find the STL for a WWBMG with dual filament sensor? or recomendations to use with the cross bow. thanks

[river basin]

It is in the A4T github, this version is using the Sherpa mini spacing.

[ashen ether]

Hey guys, I'm looking into an A4T with a dragon ace volcano. I was looking either at a WW-BMG or WWG2 for the extruder. What do you guys think? (Orbiter looks cool too)

@elfin granite cool profile pic

[river basin]

I use WW-BMG and i have been very happy with the quality, i almost went for a g2 but i had a stepper motor already and just needed a RIDGA kit so it was a lot cheaper that way “make sure to get the Bondtech if you go with that route”
Here is an example of my ASA prints

[ashen ether]

That looks awesome

I ended up ordering a g2 kit, sorry😅 I really appreciate you sharing this though cause I currently only have a neptune 4pro and an unassembled v0.2. Right now the wwg2 is going on the n4pro. I'm still going to re-evaluate what I do to the v0.2 if and when I get there cause I just went with a basic kit and making it go a little faster sounds like a lot of fun

[river basin]

No worries, im sure the g2 will be great. I have a V0.2 too, the prints above was done at 8k acceleration and 220mms

[ashen ether]

That's awesome. My plan is to make the v0.2 my dedicated ABS/ASA machine with an internal filtration unit of some sorts and then put up some type of airtight enclosing around it to make it safe long term to live with. It's good to see other people having some good success

[river basin]

I have a mini carbon filter and a sealed printer and got no issues with smell, but i do understand that others might be more worried about the particles from ABS

[ashen ether]

That's good to know man

[untold ivy]

Can someone help me? I have a step file id like to put a filament sensor in it if possible.

I suck as cad..

Id like a 5.5mm ball with a d2f

[low parrot]

Hello, maybe it's not the right channel here, so tell me if I'm wrong.

I do have stupid extrusion issues with my Voron 2.4 350 since around a half of a year, making my motivation to work on it nearly zero.

Now let me come to the issue:

Nearly all prints I do will have no filament coming out of the nozzle after a while.
If I push the filament ever so slightly in again it will continue and work for a while.

First I thought its maybe a issue on the filament inlet / path. I switched the tubes and shortened the path, made sure there are no bends or hard corners.

It did not do anything. I switched the extruder gears, I calibrated the CW2 many times.

Nothing worked.

After a while I thought maybe its a heat creep from my dragon HF hotend, but even with a way more powerful fan its still the same issue.

The hotend is also not really clogged, I can pause the print and then extrude filament and it will just work fine, even tho it just stopped in the print.

I thought maybe its a issue with the fact, that my CW2 parts are printed in MJF (Nylon) but a friend has the same and he does not have the issue.

The gear's do have quite good contact with the filament, and do not directly slip when I pull on it, but it is also not impossible that it gets out if I pull to much.

I'm actually out of ideas and don't know what to do anymore.

I hope some people in here can help me figure it out and solve it hopefully.

Thank you already guys.

[untold ivy]

I think your grip isnt good.. you may need to reprint the parts... if you put filament in and hold the gears. The filament shouldn't slip out

It could be the latch...

Or the extruder parts themselves

[low parrot]

They are printed in MJF (nylon) and a friend has the same without a issue. I did also order the same extruder parts then him and the issue gets actually even worse with them.

I'm getting confused by the extruder gear washer that are included and no not know where they need to go. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005663309821.html

Also the big gear has a lot of play in there. Latch gear is fine. The MR85 on the CW2 main body has also a lot of play in all directions and can fall out easier (checked CAD motor plate has 8.1mm and CW2 main body has 8.2mm)

[untold ivy]

I would check to make sure the filament isnt slipping

[raven pewter]

Did you finish the design? If so do you have a github link?

[void sequoia]

Not yet, the last two sets of gears I bought weren’t concentric so I’m still on the hunt for a reliable source to fine tune the design around.

[raven pewter]

Truth be told, they are all probably from the same Chinese factory haha.

[void sequoia]

Haha yeah probably. Makes it a little challenging.

[raven pewter]

How much does the concentricity matter on these? I’ve built a couple HGX extruders without checking the concentricity, they seem fine 🤷‍♂️.

I suspect think the larger gears are less sensitive to it.

[keen falcon]

If anyone knows more about WWG2 I'd appreciate any assistance.

[ruby pumice]

#1160715888048218193

[neat sinew]

What's the consensus these days with cnc extruders? I am 100% wanting to go cnc but I am kinda torn between the sherpa mini or the hextrudort.
Wonder if anyone might have any thoughts on which one would be better.

[ruby pumice]

Considered Bondtech?

[raven pewter]

There is a TriangleLabs CNC Sherpa mini that’s cheap and well built

[molten lily]

some of those have trouble with conducting too much heat into the filament and causing jams on certain filaments at high motor current. The two all metal extruders that seem to have fixed the problem are lgx pro metal and sherpa v3

sometimes cnc isn't always better for some applications

[neat sinew]

I print 99.5% ABS/ASA. I am always dealing with Printed Extruders loosening up every 5 hours or so.

[molten lily]

Oh you should be fine. I would get a sherpa v3 if you are set on cnc. Or you could wait for the lgx lite pro metal

that will be soon

[neat sinew]

I will keep an eye out, I really do love the WWG2 but I am past having to tighten them up nearly everyday.
Thank's for the insight.

[molten lily]

What did you print the wwg2 out of? You might want to print it out of something semi crystalline

(not a nylon though)

[neat sinew]

I've done a few in ABS from Various Vendors.
I have PET-CF and PPA and PPS CF but have not really dived into the annealing needed for them.

[molten lily]

You should try it out with that pet-cf and anneal it.

[neat sinew]

Currently the 2 WWG2 I have deployed are using Fusion's newest ABS that has to be printed at 295c minimum.

[neat sinew]

I have a WWG2 printed out in the PET-CF but just have not annealed it yet.

[molten lily]

I would just try that before you buy a new extruder because wwg2 is already a good extruder. You wouldn't really be doing much of an upgrade

[neat sinew]

I may give it a shot and see how it works out.

[molten lily]

you can try that pps as well. I like pps it is fun to drop on surfaces

[neat sinew]

I like the PPS but it seems to be very sensitive to part cooling fan. If I run enough fan for overhangs it really messes with the layer adhesion.
The PET-CF is a joy to print as it really hardly needs any fan at all even for some pretty steep overhangs.

[molten lily]

yeah you just need support interfaces for a lot of engineering polymers

[quaint field]

I cant really find anywhere official to ask for help with the orbiter, so ill try here to see if anyone has experienced this. I have an original orbiter 2.5, and every time i change filament, it gets stuck like this. I have to either cut it into a very sharp point, or often i need to open the extruder and manually guide it in

[ruby pumice]

Official Orbiter talk is on Facebook (big groan)

Every time, or when you are at the inner part of the spool which has a real tight diameter?

You can also try cutting a much sharper angle

[quaint field]

Ugh, I think I'd rather buy a different extruder than go on Facebook again

It's every time. I can usually avoid it by cutting at a much sharper angle, but even then it sometimes takes a couple of attempts. I think it happens no matter where on the spool I am, but it's probably worse at the center

[torn epoch]

hi, does anybody here use a4t toolhead with "Modified WW-BMG with Bondtech RIDGA v2"?

i have an issue that when printing petg with higher speed it tends to slip, i mean i am using the smooth tension arm and that might be the issue but its also seen as an upgrade over the regular arm

so i am not sure what to do, no matter how much i increase the tension the petg stays unsquished and it slips, like it gets grinded at some point and it stops completly

i might switch to the regular arm but then i wont have the benefits of the smooth arm

[ruby pumice]

We know what wwbmg is, you’ll have to be more specific about what the modified version is

How fast are you trying to print? PETG doesn’t print that fast afaik

[torn epoch]

500mm/s peak speed

[torn epoch]

https://github.com/Armchair-Heavy-Industries/A4T/blob/main/STL%2FWW-BMG for A4T%2FREADME.md

this version

[ruby pumice]

Ever printed PETG that fast?

[torn epoch]

it was working in another print

maybe it wasnt maxxing the speed as much?

like accel might have limited it

there is this one print

that at the same point each time

[ruby pumice]

A lot of things can limit the speed, you have to verify in the speed view to check

I'm just wondering if you can lay down PETG at that speed

[torn epoch]

the only problem is the extruder

what if i get a different one?

a better one?

ww-bmg is recommended for a4t for some reason

[ruby pumice]

I have no idea, I've never printed anywhere near 500mm/s

[torn epoch]

ok

[ruby pumice]

Why aren't you asking over on the Armchair discord?

[torn epoch]

i didnt knew about it

thx for letting me knoe

actually the invite seem to not work?

[violet zodiac]

minus1ms has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[torn epoch]

ok

[thorny cape]

Strange, I have been using Orbiters 2.0 and now 2.5 for maybe 3 years, since 2.0 came out. I don't have issues with loading filament at all. I do cut filament in a point but in general I have no loading issues.

Couple of things to check:
Use reasonsble tension; I turn tensioner 8 or 9 half turns.
Check instructions on Orbiter 2.0 page on how to screw in that metal filament guide after the gears. It must be just not touching the gears.
Make sure drive gear teeth are aligned with filament guide; you might need to use one or few shims to push back the gear.

[tidal hollow]

Hi everyone,

I’m running a Voron Trident: Stealthburner + CPAP, LGX Lite, Dragon V2 hotend (80 W).

I want to increase flowrate, and I’m unsure if I should just upgrade the hotend or also the extruder and go for a new toolhead like XOL.

I’m considering Orbiter or Galileo with Dragon ACE with Extender—are these still current/recommended options for high-flow printing with 0.6–1 mm nozzles?

Any advice for high flow would be much appreciated!

[molten lily]

If you want to increase flow rate you should mostly be looking at a new hotend.

If you print with large nozzles you should be looking at hotends with huge meltzones: CHC XL (questionable) goliath, tricorn, mosq magnum+, chube air, chube conduct ect

[tidal hollow]

I’m aware of that, but I’m not sure if my LGX Lite will handle it. If I need to change the extruder too, I’d probably redo the whole toolhead (maybe XOL) and switch to an eddy probe instead of Clicky.

That said, I’d prefer to keep the LGX Lite if possible.

My budget is around 100 € in the EU (ideally Spain). I’m currently looking at:

Dragon ACE MZE (~80 €)

Rapido Plus 2 HF (~99 €)

[molten lily]

I have had really bad experiences with rapidos of all kinds. I used to run them a lot. Dragon ace volcano (DAV) is the way to go for a reliable budget mid flow hotend.

[raven pewter]

LGX Lite should be fine. You will almost always outrun your hotend first. If not, try increasing extruder motor current a bit until it does.

[tawdry path]

So far i have used HGX lite etruder variants. I have no experience with BMG type extruders. For toolchanger i wamt to keep it budget so i want to do DB with bambu hotend and WW-BMG extruder as a cheaper version of WW extrduer. So anyone running WW-BMG to coment on experience, performance, issues?

[round crane]

Need help. I want to use dual filament sensor in my extruder for mmu. But i runout endstop pin on my sht36 v3 toolboard (for x endstop, klicky probe, and filament sensor). I can realocate the x endstop but that mean more cable through the gantry and i hate more cable . is there any pin i can use for my second filament sensor?

[wintry dew]

If you are using at PT1000 then you can use the thermistor port as another endstop port.

[round crane]

Oh really? Which one is it?

[wintry dew]

I don’t understand your question.

[round crane]

Which one did i use for the endstop in my sht 36

[wintry dew]

I don’t know how you wired your board.

[wintry dew]

This is my board with an add on PCB I made to make wiring the sensors and fan easier.

Most GPIO can be inputs other than:

• GPIO24 output only
• GPIO26 (RGB) output only

[round crane]

Oh wow thats insane. Did you had the design file?

[wintry dew]

I have not released it yet.

[arctic flint]

I’m officially over fighting against the design of the Stealthburner, and now I have an MMU I want a more robust cutter than Filametrix (no shade on the project I just can’t get it working reliably myself - skill issue).

Given I’d like to keep using my CNC tap, am I correct in thinking A4T with a crossbow is the way to go? I’ve ordered myself an Orbiter 2.5+filament sensor and have an EBB36 gen2 which I’m pretty happy with.

[raven pewter]

There isn’t a ton of filament cutter options out there for Voron toolheads.

Here is some options if you filter by filament cutter: https://toolheadbuilder.gallinetwork.com/toolhead-builder/

[molten lily]

If you go for an mmu setup you will want something that is really close cut. The best option is probably something like RX toolhead. A4t also cuts it really close to the hotend

[hybrid fog]

So, if I go a 8:60 gear ratio for the extruder I’m getting more force but will I run out of push at higher flows?

[rancid forum]

bigger gear ratio = stepper motor needs to spin faster, but it delivers more torque

[wanton sandal]

Would fyset cnc sherpa mini be a good extruder or do i have to change some parts from it like the peek gear? Not really familiar with all the different type of gears and the recommended ones

[molten lily]

No, the v3 sherpas are pretty good

[wanton sandal]

Awesome 👌

[slender glacier]

Anyone know what a reasonable temperature on a stealthburner extruder motor should be? Measured on the outside "shell" of the motor.

An LDO-36STH20-1004AHG(XH)

There are no fans so i would think it runs hot?

I have run_current set to 0.5 and measure about 70 degrees C.

Having issues with print stopping, du to no filament extrude (sensor), i manually have to push 0,5-1 CM of the filament down then its good to go.
Then perhaps 5 min later i have to repeat.
Some times it can run 1 hour.

On a 4 hour print it has stopped 10 timed, currently watching it and its been ok the last 30 min.

Could it be that my motor is running to hot and causing a soft stall of some sort?

[ruby pumice]

Don't know, I never measure mine. Normal run for that motor is 0.60-0.65A

Might be worthwhile to disassemble and see if you have an assembly problem

[slender glacier]

Ty, I thought I read about that. Dunno how I manage to put 0.5 there.

I’ll try 0.6 and print again, but I noticed a possible issue.

The PTFE tube, are there any specifications for ID?
Couldn’t find anything specific, but, I saw some pictures online that showed a little tighter ID than what I had installed.

[native rapids]

the reverse bowden tubing should be 3mm ID. the piece between extruder and hotend should be 2mm ID.

[slender glacier]

Perhaps that all along could be the culprit… I used 3mm ID…

Did feel for every “stop” that I had to manually push the filament into the hotend, 5-10mm or something. Kinda felt some resistance.

Possibly hitting the outer rim of the hotend? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[normal tiger]

chasing an issue of skipping in the extruder. Once and a while I can hear it give a click click click while extruding, sometimes in only one specific part of a print. Had a look at my gears and they look okay but the drive gear on my clockwork 2 is able to slide fairly readily on the gear shaft. I don't recall if this is normal or not from the original build but I'm guessing that it is not.

If i pull on the filament while it's extruding i can feel a "dead spot" where it stops and then starts again. It prints rather nicely still though beside these issues so i'm rather confused. I feel like this would cause more of a problem.

[wintry dew]

Yeah, that set screw should be tight. The other failure point would be if the gear driving the shaft has cracked and is loose on the shaft as well.

[normal tiger]

I ordered the "Bondtech BMG IDGA Retro-fit Set" which appears to include the entire shaft assembly

[ruby pumice]

yeah, that's basically what IGDA is

[normal tiger]

i was able to repair the set screw but after reassembling the motor is skipping

i'm not sure if i overtightened something or it's misaligned

[normal tiger]

this is the same noise that I was mentioning before but it appears worse now.

[wanton sandal]

So i tried using sherpa mini cncn by fysetc, and in regular filaments its ok but in abrasives it keeps on jamming?

I lowered tension and also tightened tension, i tried to baby step the tension to the point that it will just grab the filament and when pushing through hot end, i tightened it little by little but still no luck

[tiny oriole]

Whats the "best" extruder for abrasive filaments? the CW2 cant grip my CF nylon good enough

[molten lily]

Are you either printing extremely slow with a high motor current or outrunning your hotend by pushing too much filament?

[molten lily]

You may want to try and repackage the gears in your clockwork into a sherpa mini. The tensioner is a bit more robust

[wanton sandal]

Either the one i have had bad tolerance or it is by design anyways i widen the exit points and it actually works now

[molten lily]

Oh ok good 👍

[wanton sandal]

https://youtube.com/shorts/dR9sYy5NRI0?si=ZZyC0lneTUtC1lob

Not sure if this issue for this one is a known or my luck is just terrible

[molten lily]

Looks like you have bad luck

I would contact fysetc

[wanton sandal]

I reached out to them too but havent heard back

[tiny oriole]

Interesting

Oh but it doesn’t work with stealth burner?

[wintry trout]

i think ive settled on the wristwatch g2 as a good lightweight planetary gear single drive extruder, but am i missing a newer option? i dont really know what my options are outside of that
i know of the two sherpas which seem nice but i wanted to use single drive

[ruby pumice]

That's a good choice, my memory is fading, Orbiter is in the same family but dual-drive
https://discord.com/channels/460117602945990666/1160715888048218193

[wintry trout]

gotcha, yeah, i was just looking around for a low backlash single drive extruder
i like my sovol ace's planetary extruder but for my own printer and for upgrading my old ender i wanted something lighter and single drive based on what i saw from vez, 247printing, the orbiter blog and elsewhere

and just, for something different too

anyways, i guess ill get one of those, seems like the g2sa internals or kit are around 45$ which isnt too bad i guess

[ruby pumice]

yeah, I run both the G2 and O2, haven't decided which I really favor. But G2 can be built more compact (than O2)

[wintry trout]

iirc the planet gears are metal and not plastic right? or am i misremembering

oh, nevermind, i think i see everything i need to know on the github :D

[ruby pumice]

yes, both those extruders are pretty well documented if you read

[red mesa]

I'm having issue when printing : "extruder" not hot enough. My printer used to work fine until recently. I did : PID_CALIBRATE HEATER=extruder TARGET=210
PID parameters: pid_Kp=29.179 pid_Ki=2.138 pid_Kd=99.576
The SAVE_CONFIG command will update the printer config file
with these parameters and restart the printer.

But I still get that same error when launching a print ; "extruder" not hot enough . Anyone knows what I can do ?

[native rapids]

i would suggest posting a summary of your issues in #1169407804386316288 with a klippy log, this is not related to your extruder but will be related to your print start macro

[acoustic lantern]

What's everyone's go to extruder these days?

[knotty gazelle]

The question is usually very specific "it depends".

Easy disassembly for cleanup? Pushing force? Looking cool? Weight? Size? Is it for toolchanger? Being cool and rather unusual?

Probably won't go wrong with Orbiter 2.5, Galileo 2 in one of repacks, Wristwatch BMG or one of Sherpas.

Papilio if you want something unusual.

[acoustic lantern]

I've ran Orbiter, Sherpa and recently the BIQU Nebula. I'm just looking got consistent extrusion quality

[knotty gazelle]

There's more into that than just extruder alone. I had Clockwork 1 on Switchwire and it made really nice prints. Trianglelab BMG gears.

But it also had Dragon SF and printed considerably slower 😄

People like G2, but it has bearing instead of second driven gear, thus pushing (or pulling) force may not be as high as Orbiter.

[acoustic lantern]

I keep getting artifacts in my prints that resemble z banding and I'm positive it's from the extruder. Just looking at some other options.

[knotty gazelle]

What printer? It could be real Z banding, bed not PID tuned, varying part cooling fan, motor pulley being tilted...

have you tried (R)IDGA to address potential drive gear eccentricity?