Extruders General Chatter

[blissful barn]

Why does it "feel like a kids toy", the thing was in the mail today. Yet to try, but it grabs the filament good and seems to run smooth. Metal frame, gears are a mix of plastic and metal. I am confident the thing will work. (I will report, should I ever get it on the machine).
Few days ago I changed the idler gear on the "mini stealth burner" (I think this is how its called). A plain 8.3 mm cylinder with the 9.5 mm 17 tooth gear, this works much better already than two serrated grooves.

The issue is that the cylinder section of those gears was probably too small; at the same time the grooves too deep. As a result the squish of the plastic was not good enough. I could pull the filament through without driving the motor back. One groove removed improves it (not exactly the point of the two gear system :-), but it works better without the 2nd groove).
At some point the gears bottom out then the distance on the grooved side cannot become smaller anymore.

[untold ivy]

I use HGX extruder gears

They work great. And there are many different prints for them

[untold ivy]

This is usually a print issue. You may have to reprint your parts and check tolerances. Printer must be calibrated

[blissful barn]

No it is not a print issue. The driven gears cannot get closer to each other, than the pitch circle radius of the two gears. Here 0.5x17x2=17mm. :-). If the "filament transport knurled drums" are smaller than 7.6 mm there will be no grip on the filament.

[untold ivy]

Yes this is a print issue you need to reprint the parts

You really have to make sure you printer is calibrated before you print these parts

[blissful barn]

The gears are not printed.

[untold ivy]

Its not the gears it's the part that holds the gears

[blissful barn]

Nope!

[untold ivy]

Okay

Cw2...

[blissful barn]

I try to make a sketch to explain.

[untold ivy]

I understand what you are saying..

Its fairly common for cw2 if you printer isn't calibrated correctly

For the filament to slip

And not get grip

[blissful barn]

When the gears botton out on the teeth (my calculation above is wrong, 4am...). And the cylinders are too small, the filament can slip. There is still "movement" in the plastic parts, but the gears are in their closest possible position.
I checked bondtech clone gears from another source and they have a more shallow groove & bigger cylindrical part. Yes: after messing about with the gears I calibrated completely new.

[blissful barn]

What I did: replaced the idler with a "no groove variant" and recalibrated. (at least it seems to work, without having researched to the bitter end) Calibration was repeatable and prints finish, without "air printing".

[icy orbit]

Does anyone know of a lightweight extruder that has a latch like clockwork 2 ?
The actual Sherpa, Orbiter etc need 2 hands to load filament (one pressing the arm and another pushing the filament inside)

Sherpa Mini with a latch would be neat.

[deft flame]

I'm trying to understand the pros and cons of Orbiter 2.5 vs Galileo 2. I understand it's single and dual gear, and more or less understand the differences, but I'm not familiar with the specifics here. Why would I choose one or the other? (Undecided on hotend but will be a stealth changer so might be different ones.)

[ruby pumice]

Which toolhead do you plan to use on the SC?

[deft flame]

Yavoth

[ruby pumice]

I think it is hard for most of us to testify which is better, I believe the Orbiter can produce more push force for obvious reasons. I run both and judgement is still out.

So probably most important is which format you like. Orbiter is pre-built and generally not rebuilt into anything. Whereas G2 can go into SB as G2E or on top of most other toolheads as either G2SA or WWG2. I'm planning to do SC with WWG2s on top myself.

If I were you, I'd evaluate my toolhead filament sensing needs before deciding too.
Also prob better to ask on the tool changer discords as they may have more sage advice

[deft flame]

There was a conversation yesterday on the SC discord, but nothing really pointing a direction there. Different people had different ones and liked them but none really could compare a reason to choose one over another either so I thought the extruders discord might have more sage advice, haha

I've found I can get sherpa mini the cheapest. O2 and G2 about the same price, so there's that

[ruby pumice]

If you are building a SC, cost is not a consideration

Yeah, other extruders are slightly cheaper, especially when you multiply by number of toolheads. But I calculated it, not MUCH cheaper, since G2 and Orb both contain the motor too.

Up to the builder though, not sure you want to build such an expensive printer and put the cheapest possible extruder on it

[deft flame]

Yeah, it's not necessarily about cheapest possible, but if there's no disadvantage, why not (the more tools the more it matters.) A few similar convo heads have me thinking of upgrading to the less cheap shperpa with bondtech gears....if I'm going that route, maybe getting 3 sherpas and 3 g2's is the way to go since I can't seem to decide and they're the same price.

[thorny cape]

Neither one of those require any hands to load filament. If the tip of filament is cut at angle or sharp like a tip of a pencil, all you have to do is push in filament until tip gets in the gears. Then you do an extruder command. Maybe you need to push the filament a bit in beginning to get it going.

[icy orbit]

Gotta try that, hope it's not requiring too much force to get a good first grip of the gears and that ot works with Bowden tube installed.

[thorny cape]

I have been doing it like this for a long time, since someone else told me the same thing.

Key is to have a sharp enough tip that gets between the gears so that when you push filament during loading, it gets pulled easily.

[versed wraith]

@umbral scroll I am able to fully tension it, and it does not slip there

[umbral scroll]

it's probably the latch part that catches on the screw being worn down too much or the arm expanding a bit, you'll have it bouce when you have it tightened and push down on it

[versed wraith]

Possibly, but I've been using this extruder for less than 10 hours printing time

[umbral scroll]

I know this is diff and it’s unlatched

But see if you can push that down/ bounce it

And see the thumb screw also move inwards when you push it down (while latched)

[versed wraith]

I can do this fine

[umbral scroll]

Like you can bounce it?

[versed wraith]

Uhh

[umbral scroll]

(With it latched not like my vid unlatched)

One sec let me latch it maybe that’ll be a bit easier

[versed wraith]

No, when it's latched it doesn't move at all

I have an inkling of what the problem is

From playing with it just now

[versed wraith]

When I tightened the motor down, I think i damaged the housing

[umbral scroll]

Hmm

Isn’t there a heatset there

[versed wraith]

I should check

But not sure if it can be adjustable with a heatset

[umbral scroll]

Oh wait you might have it reversed

[umbral scroll]

There should be a scre head there and it screws into the motor

[versed wraith]

i reversed it, i had it the correct way originally

[umbral scroll]

• chain thing

[versed wraith]

i must have lost an m3 washer, or never put it in

which would explain why the motor kept slipping out of alignment when placed under stress

[umbral scroll]

Well I didn’t expect that

[versed wraith]

which would cause inconsistent extrusion

and it to stop working after a while, which is exactly what i saw

[umbral scroll]

Yeah that might not be optimal

Also if that’s the fysetc gear check alignment with filament path

And see if you had washer come in the pack

Iirc they usually have a small washer in front and in back

[versed wraith]

its the formbot, and everything is good, i have a whole bunch of spare washers

[umbral scroll]

Did the extruder have anything in the gear bag?

If not then don’t worry about it

[versed wraith]

probably, but i've mixed up everything now so i wouldn't know tbh

[umbral scroll]

It’d be a really thin shim

Like 0.1 or 0.2mm

If nothing sticks out then probably not + doesn’t matter too much anyways

[versed wraith]

Eh, I'll find it if it's in the box

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it

[deft flame]

I'm struggling with choosing extruders between Sherpa mini (it derivatives) , orbiter 2.5, and wwg2. Largely because I can't really figure out what the pros and cons of each are. I get that they're all great but what is the reason one might choose one or the other?

[mellow cradle]

at least a few reasons, I'm sure they are not exhaustive.

orbiter 2.5 = commercial extruder, no printing/assembly required, just pop it on and you're done.
wwg2 = you want galileo2 but in a bolt on extruder on the top type format
sherpa mini = lightweight/skeletonized, uses standard bmg gear drives and minimal printing required.

[deft flame]

Does anyone know for orbiter 2 smart sensor, what the nuts and washers included are for? I couldn't find any docs for assembly and am going by a single YouTube video that didn't mention them

[high spoke]

Any thoughts on WW2 vs Sherpa Mini? Mainly for print quality I guess. I don't print flexible's, just PLA. No crazy speeds, building a Dragonburner soon and installing Dragon Ace, so maybe 30ish mm3/sec?

[shadow plinth]

Why is there always a 1/2mm gap at the top of Stealthburner and clockwork 2?

[raven pewter]

https://github.com/SartorialGrunt0/Awesome-Extruders

Ive been working on this list on and off for a few months. Let me know if you have any recommendations or extruders I missed.

[tepid totem]

Maybe this is a dumb question but I have a 12 tooth Nema 14 motor and I’m wondering if it would be fine to use it with a clockwork 2? The gear pitch seems the same so my thought was that I would just need to update the gear ratio/rotation distance

[raw compass]

look mom, I made to the list 😄 😄

[raven pewter]

I’ve had this same question and haven’t tried it. I suspect the spacing between teeth might be a concern with gear meshing but I’m not sure.

Been debating just picking up a DXC extruder to use it with.

[subtle moon]

Hey guys, I have a LGX steel drive train set I would like to put to use. Are there any opensource extruders that use this gear set with a filament sensor?

[raven pewter]

How different are they from HGX lite gears?

[subtle moon]

honestly I am not 100% sure on this. I heard the HGX lite gears are clones of the LGX lite but I am not sure if this means they are they same gear sizes.

[raven pewter]

Hmm ok.

Check out “round trip”

https://github.com/chirpy2605/voron/tree/main/general/RoundTrip/LGX

[subtle moon]

thanks!

[full pebble]

Would I be able to use the internals from a BMG copy to make to the Clockwork extruder?

[ruby pumice]

Clockwork or CW2 for SB?
Yes if you have all the parts the yeah, see the SB assembly manual to see which parts are used.

Also, #afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

[full pebble]

CW2

[ruby pumice]

Yeah, most parts lists just say "BMG kit" but doesn't break down the parts inside. So yeah look in the SB assembly manual to see what is used. It's something like this
https://kb-3d.com/store/bondtech/484-bondtech-bmg-extruder-internals-kit-build-your-own-1645151327973.html

I think the things in that picture are the minimum required

[broken fossil]

I am trying to find the right discord channel. I am putting together my 2.4 and I am looking to put a rapidbuner toolhead on. I am using a WWG2 Extruder, and a Rapido 2 UHF. Looking at Chirpy's GITHUB, it is all over the place. can anyone point me the right direction?

[ruby pumice]

#1182811180566331432

[proud stirrup]

Anyone seen a comparison of these two CNC sherpa mini extruders? I haven't found anything

[rustic ingot]

Same bmg style of extruder. Expect the same performance

[indigo swift]

I have an older style stealthburner and I am considering reprinting the whole assembly due to potential fatigue and inserts showing signs of coming loose. Is abs still the right filament for longevity of the parts?

[native rapids]

yes, or ASA

[indigo swift]

Question: my stealthburner isn't grabbing filament anymore, the motor spins, I took it apart and couldn't find anything blocking it, is there some trick or thing to check that will make it obvious whats up? The idler arm moved freely

I can freely pass filament through to the hot end and it extrudes, even when closed up. It does seem like the top latch isnt snug however

[ruby pumice]

Check to see if that arm is cracked, that's the most common
BTW #afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

[indigo swift]

Arm wasn't cracked, I think there was powder in the arm socket and it was preventing the arm from fully depressing against the filament

The grub screw was also a little loose and I feel great sadness I have no thread locker and I'll be tightening it again next year

But I'm resembling and I'll see how it performs now. I also found a ton of bolts loose and things misaligned, depression took a few years out of my printing but we're back baby!

[arctic flint]

I'm working on a V0.2 made mostly from leftovers from my 2.4 (which got way out of hand). I have a spare standard BMG gear kit for a Stealthburner/Mini Stealthburner + the usual stepper. Are there any alt extruders I can use it with without needing to source anything exotic beyond the usual spares one accumulates? I think I can do the Sherpa Mini 2?

[ruby pumice]

Sharkfin is excellent
🦈

[arctic flint]

The aesthetic has me sold - it'll make the cat cowl on the Dragonburner I'm putting it on look like it has a mohawk

[carmine narwhal]

Hello. I am sure this is my fault for not utilizing the PIF program, but I am not sure what I need to move forward.

[native rapids]

what issue are you perceiving? parts not fitting?

[carmine narwhal]

@native rapids cant get latch to close. Looks to me like it has interference in the picture and never going to close. I have had to get some of my printed parts replaced and have lost confindence that I even have correct printed parts for stealthburner. Not sure I have all the resources I am supposed to have for assembly, but I was moving forward until I started experiencing problems with my printed parts

[native rapids]

do the parts have any sort of elephants foot that you could trim off?

[carmine narwhal]

@native rapids i think the black plastic inside my blue circle is keeping the latch from closing. Seems like a lot to remove to me. Maybe one of my parts is wrong?

[native rapids]

if all the parts were printed from one file source then different versioning is unlikely

your latch and shuttle look like the current versions

[carmine narwhal]

Thank You. I will remove enough material for it to work

[ruby pumice]

Just FYI for the last two posters....
#1182811180566331432
#afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

[wintry dew]

I would suggest reprinting replacement parts as soon as you can as well. The latch is the newer stronger version and I would not recommend removing material from it and I would take it from the other side.

[ruby pumice]

Definitely don't remove material, that i the part most prone to breaking

[pallid grail]

So I have my 2.4 (LDO kit), running the steathburner clockwork2 combo with a Revo hotend and TAP installed. It just doesn't seem to have any power to push filament, despite having a run current of 0.85, which I understand to already be high.
I also want more temperature at the nozzle, so I'm naturally looking at the revo high temp hotside. Should I be looking at a different extruder for more power, or maybe an entirely different setup altogether?

[ruby pumice]

How fast are you trying to print? I'm not sure Revo is ever fast enough to outrun CW2

[pallid grail]

Even pushing 20 mm3/s of PlA with a high flow 0.4 is too much and it starts skipping. Shows I have plenty of heating capacity left, rarely above 80%.

Is it possible I have an issue with my CW2 somewhere then?

Swapping drivers never changed anything, did that a while ago.

[ruby pumice]

Yes, it should have no problem going that fast. Hop into the right channel and check the pins for the videos to inspect the details of CW2 assembly. #afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions

Maybe it is the famous anti-squish

[pallid grail]

I jumped over there for troubleshooting, thanks!

[carmine narwhal]

@wintry dew @ruby pumice @native rapids my latch snaps shut now. Thanks

[rancid forum]

which off the shelf extruder is best for flexibles like tpu 80A 70A

[ruby pumice]

Is there a budget?

[rancid forum]

lets say no

[ruby pumice]

Seems that nobody knows. Just not enoguh people watching this thread and the number ot people who take TPU seriously is probably low. Maybe consider Orbiter2, but also the Bondtech large gear extruders, like LGX Lite Pro which has multiple tension adjustments

I'm building a machine where TPU will be one of its jobs, using a Orbiter

WIth WWBMG, can you use standard BMG set like from CW2? @twilit solar

[river basin]

OG Ww-BMG says BMG or RIGDA Gear Set in the BOM

[wintry dew]

@ember thicket I'm wondering if you looked at adding filament sensors to the ProtoXtruder 2.0?

Also, this seems to have quite a bit of play.

[rancid forum]

i have ordered a orbiter 2.5 with my voron kit i am going to put it on my custom toolhead hopefully

[ember thicket]

Yes.

1. Extruder entry sensor: The extruder is too compact to directly cut out a built-in sensor. I'm still thinking about how to make one.
2. Toolhead sensor: I've made some tests on a spacer under the extruder with a built-in sensor. Seems to work fine. Just need to spare some time to clean up and upload them.
   Thanks.

[wintry dew]

I'm wondering if a small PCB with a detector switch can make both low profile: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ESE-13V01D/822259

Or other similar switch.

Like this one can full stroke but then you need to deal with wear:

[ember thicket]

It's intended to have some slightly larger clearance to fit different prints. It should be fine to have that gear floating a bit there.

[ember thicket]

I'm more interested in using only common hardware. Also I have no experience making custom PCBs.
But I'd be super glad to see if anyone with better skills can take the CAD and make a sensor for it.🙂

[wintry dew]

I can handle the PCB stuff if we can find a nice one and a swich with enough force.

[ember thicket]

That would be great! But sorry I have no further experience other than common mouse switches and button switches.😅

[wanton sandal]

would anyone know the weight differences of, wwBMG wwG2 vs Sherpa mini CNC?

[raw compass]

up to 20 grams

the weight is neglibile. G2 is the porker out of all these, CNC Sherpa is the best out of these because of metal frame but uses same gearset fit for RIDGA WWBMG extruder and I have made IDGA version for it which is essentially same shaft but idler teeth and filament teeth locations are swapped on the shaft

should you want to go for MMU, many recommend getting RIDGA parts and A4T extruder with filament sensor cutouts

for TPU etc, CNC Sherpa is against best out of these due to it's properly machined and depends less on your printer's accuracy and material tuning profiles. out of printed extruders they all should function just fine. my IDGA WW extruder mod pushed 95A TPU close to 30mm3/s with Peopoly Lancer Long without any issues through a 0.5mm nozzle.

there are more to extruders than just weight

[wanton sandal]

Cnc sherpa is different from cnc sherpa mini?

[raw compass]

its the same, im just lazy. Sherpa Mini and Sherpa Micro are different extruders. CNC versions are 99 times out of 100 always better

[wanton sandal]

Thank you for the insight

[alpine haven]

I upgraded from Afterburner to Stealthburner.
I replaced the stepper to LDO nema14.
I have issues with under extrusion for the infill. I think it is due to misalignment of the gear as I didn't adjust it and noticed that it was a bit loose.
I see over AliExpress Orbiter upgrade kit from 2 to 2.5. I believe the Galileo 2 is native to Voron.
Any insight what gear would be preferable to buy for an upgrade?

[native rapids]

Galileo 2 is a very nice upgrade to a stealthburner toolhead

[ruby pumice]

And I rally against trying to buy yourself out of problems 🙂

[wintry dew]

Orbiter =/= Galileo

They are different extruders and the one in StealthBurner is Clockwork 2.

[ruby pumice]

Yeah, G2 is in no way "native" to Voron

[alpine haven]

Is there a kit without the motor that is recommended?

Is there another popular replacement other than the G2?

I am running with umbilical

[ruby pumice]

OG BMG gearing (CW2 spec), IDGA BMG gearing (CW2), and G2E are the primary choices if staying on SB

#afterburner_and_stealthburner_questions btw

If you want to reuse the motor, IDGA is probably your best choice. G2E will not accept the 10T motor, it's has different gearing on the same motor

Recommend you just buy a real Bondtech set as it's pretty important for your results and not that expensive

[raw compass]

I'm at a point where I could use some extra torque. due to possible chamber temperatures of 70+C and me not having a HT stepper for extruder, can I replace the drive gear on the stepper? I figured the shaft is 2.5mm and there seem to be options for it both in brass and steel/iron. current gear is 10T, so going down to 8T or 7T would make sense if I dont want to add heat created by amperage. currently its set to 0.7A at 24V, stepper is stalling at 75mm3/s with ABS+ at 290C. what do, cheapest possible route 😄

[molten lily]

75mm³?

What extruder are you running?

At that point 48v is probably something you could start looking into

[copper light]

Hey-hey, people! Marry Xmax. I have a favor to ask, if possible. I'm as lazy as one gets. I bought voron 2.4 as my 2nd printer about 3 years ago. Aaand I have not done anything with it. It just works. (okay I installed cliky probe, cuz the metal sensor one never worked for me). So I saw the "Tool changer" mod for voron and kinda want it. So the question is... what toolhead + extruder combo should I get? not stealthburner. I tried researching it, but there are soooo many options and I'm getting overwhelmed by them. Please advise

[native rapids]

tool changers are not really for lazy people

but a better channel is #multimaterial_and_u

the combination rests upon which toolchanger method/system you choose, so

[copper light]

Yea, that's the problem, I hate choosing 😄

[native rapids]

stealthchanger, madmax, etc etc

[copper light]

I can dedicate time and effor for the assembly, but not reasearch of what is best. 😄 "MADMAX"! Thanks! I've been looking for the name

[native rapids]

it's still a niche of a niche, so some research is going to be required

[copper light]

I liked the design. Will go with it. Again, many thanks and merry christmass or your equvalent of holiday this time of year 😄

[native rapids]

https://tenor.com/bNQKp.gif

[molten lily]

Madmax is awesome.

[raw compass]

yes. I'm currently using my own mod for WristWatch extruder with MK8 drive gear and smooth idler. it started as an IDGA mod for WristWatch but 3 weeks ago I found MK8 drive gears from Ali and decided to order them and give it a try. so far I'm super happy with how it performs with TPU and harder plastics. had to increase the internal diameters a bit to fit the MK8 gear, rest is unchanged as its mounted on the same shaft with the 50T gear that BMG sets use. total cost for the gearset and bearings are like 7€. "rotation_distance: 4.05" with 10T stepper compared to 4.45 with RIDGA/IDGA, so there was some extra torque to be gained.

yesterday I had alonger ABS print going and after that I quickly re-energized the extruder stepper and took the measurements after some time. stepper peaked 86C in about 60C chamber, it's at 24V 0.7A. I have thought about 48V but CAN toolboards dont support it as it seems. other option would be to get 8T stepper or swap the stepper gear out by myself for 8T or 7T but can't find them anywhere for 2.5mm shaft, all offerings in the internet are for either 2mm or 2.3mm so redrilling would be needed should I order some.

[burnt fjord]

Is there any difference in performance between sherpa and Wristwatch BMG?

They’re both BMG gear’ no?

[velvet solar]

Just got a Beacon rev H and about to switch over from Dragon burner to A4T. I'm currently using CNC tap and wondering if it is worth having both Tap and Beacon? I have the space available on my toolhead board. I think I saw that tap is a little more accurate for z offset.

[thorny cape]

No need for Tap and Beacon since Beacon has "contact" probing - same thing as Tap. Just use Beacon, it is perfect.

[velvet solar]

That is what I have been leaning to. Tap has been working perfect for me just a little slow. I should get some more rigidity out of just doing beacon.

[ruby pumice]

I like Tap myself and have no plans to uninstall it. Up to you. If you've never done Beacon, I can suggest that as a learning experience since it's so popular now; I just installed my first one. Why are we talking in the Extruder channel? 😉

[cold epoch]

what is e steps and gear ratio on clockwork 2

[native rapids]

gear ratio is 50:10, stock rotation distance is 22.6789511 (will need calibration)

[cold epoch]

how do i change e steps in klipper if its posible

[native rapids]

we don't use e-steps in klipper, the term is rotation distance

you would use a calibration tool like https://tools.takuya.wtf/esteps.html

[cold epoch]

yes but how do i change the code for klipper to do the change

[native rapids]

open your printer.cfg in mainsail or fluidd's web interface. find the appropriate line of code. make your change. save and restart the firmware.

[cold epoch]

ok

[native rapids]

i presume this is not for a voron

[cold epoch]

well for stealtburner cw2

[neon dragon]

The red graphs are hotend temperature and power during temperature calibration print.
The hotend is rapido plus 2.
Before this print i've performed the pid calibration and saved the config.

I suppose the instability is not normal.
What can be the problem?

[neon dragon]

After more search i've found that manually reducing pid_kp might help
The difference is immense (this is a different print, but the picture is clear)
For now i will continue monitoring, but i assume the problem is incorrect pid calibration

[wintry dew]

Or is this the print cooling fan turning on?

[neon dragon]

The print cooling fan was on the whole time.
The instability was present even without printing in process, when setting hotend to a temperature.

[lofty abyss]

guys can you share your own orbiter v2.5 rotation distance i want to compare it with my calibration

[void sequoia]

Hi all, is there a specific good go-to for HGX 2.0 gears? I’ve had a couple of these running with great results for a while now. I bought two more set of gears and they’re not concentric. Thanks.

[wintry dew]

Ohh, what body is that?

[void sequoia]

My own design. Wanted an LGX Lite but didn’t like the price. 😂

[wintry dew]

I like the design. Is it shared anywhere yet?

[void sequoia]

Not yet. It’s pretty much done, but I want to make sure my gear distances are based off a gold-standard gear set and not just any random set from AliExpress or Amazon. I’ve gotten wildly undersized gear sets before so I want to make sure I have a specific brand that I can recommend.

[wintry dew]

@raw shadow and I had been recently talking about the gearset as well. In the protoextruder 2.0 I made, I'm not sure how much the second gear will do for driving and I'm considering making it with a smooth idler.

[raw shadow]

that looks great!

i like that extruder

[void sequoia]

The first two sets I got from Haldis on Ali are currently the best and don’t seem to have any issue. Just want to be sure.

[low crater]

Looks really cool

[void sequoia]

Thanks!

[meager isle]

printing an extruder in a gf/cf filament... good idea, bad idea, doesn't-matter-all-that-much idea? My only worry would be the abrasiveness of it might mess with feeding filament, but that might be overthinking it

[molten lily]

Doesn’t matter at all. Make sure that it is somewhat temperature resistant though or you will have to lower your extruder motor current

[meager isle]

cool cool. shouldn't be any worse than what i run normally--going to use gf-asa

[elfin granite]

hey does anybody know where i can find the STL for a WWBMG with dual filament sensor? or recomendations to use with the cross bow. thanks

[river basin]

It is in the A4T github, this version is using the Sherpa mini spacing.

[ashen ether]

Hey guys, I'm looking into an A4T with a dragon ace volcano. I was looking either at a WW-BMG or WWG2 for the extruder. What do you guys think? (Orbiter looks cool too)

@elfin granite cool profile pic

[river basin]

I use WW-BMG and i have been very happy with the quality, i almost went for a g2 but i had a stepper motor already and just needed a RIDGA kit so it was a lot cheaper that way “make sure to get the Bondtech if you go with that route”
Here is an example of my ASA prints

[ashen ether]

That looks awesome

I ended up ordering a g2 kit, sorry😅 I really appreciate you sharing this though cause I currently only have a neptune 4pro and an unassembled v0.2. Right now the wwg2 is going on the n4pro. I'm still going to re-evaluate what I do to the v0.2 if and when I get there cause I just went with a basic kit and making it go a little faster sounds like a lot of fun

[river basin]

No worries, im sure the g2 will be great. I have a V0.2 too, the prints above was done at 8k acceleration and 220mms

[ashen ether]

That's awesome. My plan is to make the v0.2 my dedicated ABS/ASA machine with an internal filtration unit of some sorts and then put up some type of airtight enclosing around it to make it safe long term to live with. It's good to see other people having some good success

[river basin]

I have a mini carbon filter and a sealed printer and got no issues with smell, but i do understand that others might be more worried about the particles from ABS

[ashen ether]

That's good to know man

[untold ivy]

Can someone help me? I have a step file id like to put a filament sensor in it if possible.

I suck as cad..

Id like a 5.5mm ball with a d2f

[low parrot]

Hello, maybe it's not the right channel here, so tell me if I'm wrong.

I do have stupid extrusion issues with my Voron 2.4 350 since around a half of a year, making my motivation to work on it nearly zero.

Now let me come to the issue:

Nearly all prints I do will have no filament coming out of the nozzle after a while.
If I push the filament ever so slightly in again it will continue and work for a while.

First I thought its maybe a issue on the filament inlet / path. I switched the tubes and shortened the path, made sure there are no bends or hard corners.

It did not do anything. I switched the extruder gears, I calibrated the CW2 many times.

Nothing worked.

After a while I thought maybe its a heat creep from my dragon HF hotend, but even with a way more powerful fan its still the same issue.

The hotend is also not really clogged, I can pause the print and then extrude filament and it will just work fine, even tho it just stopped in the print.

I thought maybe its a issue with the fact, that my CW2 parts are printed in MJF (Nylon) but a friend has the same and he does not have the issue.

The gear's do have quite good contact with the filament, and do not directly slip when I pull on it, but it is also not impossible that it gets out if I pull to much.

I'm actually out of ideas and don't know what to do anymore.

I hope some people in here can help me figure it out and solve it hopefully.

Thank you already guys.

[untold ivy]

I think your grip isnt good.. you may need to reprint the parts... if you put filament in and hold the gears. The filament shouldn't slip out

It could be the latch...

Or the extruder parts themselves

[low parrot]

They are printed in MJF (nylon) and a friend has the same without a issue. I did also order the same extruder parts then him and the issue gets actually even worse with them.

I'm getting confused by the extruder gear washer that are included and no not know where they need to go. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005663309821.html

Also the big gear has a lot of play in there. Latch gear is fine. The MR85 on the CW2 main body has also a lot of play in all directions and can fall out easier (checked CAD motor plate has 8.1mm and CW2 main body has 8.2mm)

[untold ivy]

I would check to make sure the filament isnt slipping

[raven pewter]

Did you finish the design? If so do you have a github link?

[void sequoia]

Not yet, the last two sets of gears I bought weren’t concentric so I’m still on the hunt for a reliable source to fine tune the design around.

[raven pewter]

Truth be told, they are all probably from the same Chinese factory haha.

[void sequoia]

Haha yeah probably. Makes it a little challenging.

[raven pewter]

How much does the concentricity matter on these? I’ve built a couple HGX extruders without checking the concentricity, they seem fine 🤷‍♂️.

I suspect think the larger gears are less sensitive to it.

[keen falcon]

If anyone knows more about WWG2 I'd appreciate any assistance.

[ruby pumice]

#1160715888048218193

[neat sinew]

What's the consensus these days with cnc extruders? I am 100% wanting to go cnc but I am kinda torn between the sherpa mini or the hextrudort.
Wonder if anyone might have any thoughts on which one would be better.

[ruby pumice]

Considered Bondtech?

[raven pewter]

There is a TriangleLabs CNC Sherpa mini that’s cheap and well built

[molten lily]

some of those have trouble with conducting too much heat into the filament and causing jams on certain filaments at high motor current. The two all metal extruders that seem to have fixed the problem are lgx pro metal and sherpa v3

sometimes cnc isn't always better for some applications

[neat sinew]

I print 99.5% ABS/ASA. I am always dealing with Printed Extruders loosening up every 5 hours or so.

[molten lily]

Oh you should be fine. I would get a sherpa v3 if you are set on cnc. Or you could wait for the lgx lite pro metal

that will be soon

[neat sinew]

I will keep an eye out, I really do love the WWG2 but I am past having to tighten them up nearly everyday.
Thank's for the insight.

[molten lily]

What did you print the wwg2 out of? You might want to print it out of something semi crystalline

(not a nylon though)

[neat sinew]

I've done a few in ABS from Various Vendors.
I have PET-CF and PPA and PPS CF but have not really dived into the annealing needed for them.

[molten lily]

You should try it out with that pet-cf and anneal it.

[neat sinew]

Currently the 2 WWG2 I have deployed are using Fusion's newest ABS that has to be printed at 295c minimum.

[neat sinew]

I have a WWG2 printed out in the PET-CF but just have not annealed it yet.

[molten lily]

I would just try that before you buy a new extruder because wwg2 is already a good extruder. You wouldn't really be doing much of an upgrade

[neat sinew]

I may give it a shot and see how it works out.

[molten lily]

you can try that pps as well. I like pps it is fun to drop on surfaces

[neat sinew]

I like the PPS but it seems to be very sensitive to part cooling fan. If I run enough fan for overhangs it really messes with the layer adhesion.
The PET-CF is a joy to print as it really hardly needs any fan at all even for some pretty steep overhangs.

[molten lily]

yeah you just need support interfaces for a lot of engineering polymers

[quaint field]

I cant really find anywhere official to ask for help with the orbiter, so ill try here to see if anyone has experienced this. I have an original orbiter 2.5, and every time i change filament, it gets stuck like this. I have to either cut it into a very sharp point, or often i need to open the extruder and manually guide it in

[ruby pumice]

Official Orbiter talk is on Facebook (big groan)

Every time, or when you are at the inner part of the spool which has a real tight diameter?

You can also try cutting a much sharper angle

[quaint field]

Ugh, I think I'd rather buy a different extruder than go on Facebook again

It's every time. I can usually avoid it by cutting at a much sharper angle, but even then it sometimes takes a couple of attempts. I think it happens no matter where on the spool I am, but it's probably worse at the center

[torn epoch]

hi, does anybody here use a4t toolhead with "Modified WW-BMG with Bondtech RIDGA v2"?

i have an issue that when printing petg with higher speed it tends to slip, i mean i am using the smooth tension arm and that might be the issue but its also seen as an upgrade over the regular arm

so i am not sure what to do, no matter how much i increase the tension the petg stays unsquished and it slips, like it gets grinded at some point and it stops completly

i might switch to the regular arm but then i wont have the benefits of the smooth arm

[ruby pumice]

We know what wwbmg is, you’ll have to be more specific about what the modified version is

How fast are you trying to print? PETG doesn’t print that fast afaik

[torn epoch]

500mm/s peak speed

[torn epoch]

https://github.com/Armchair-Heavy-Industries/A4T/blob/main/STL%2FWW-BMG for A4T%2FREADME.md

this version

[ruby pumice]

Ever printed PETG that fast?

[torn epoch]

it was working in another print

maybe it wasnt maxxing the speed as much?

like accel might have limited it

there is this one print

that at the same point each time

[ruby pumice]

A lot of things can limit the speed, you have to verify in the speed view to check

I'm just wondering if you can lay down PETG at that speed

[torn epoch]

the only problem is the extruder

what if i get a different one?

a better one?

ww-bmg is recommended for a4t for some reason

[ruby pumice]

I have no idea, I've never printed anywhere near 500mm/s

[torn epoch]

ok

[ruby pumice]

Why aren't you asking over on the Armchair discord?

[torn epoch]

i didnt knew about it

thx for letting me knoe

actually the invite seem to not work?

[violet zodiac]

minus1ms has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[torn epoch]

ok

[thorny cape]

Strange, I have been using Orbiters 2.0 and now 2.5 for maybe 3 years, since 2.0 came out. I don't have issues with loading filament at all. I do cut filament in a point but in general I have no loading issues.

Couple of things to check:
Use reasonsble tension; I turn tensioner 8 or 9 half turns.
Check instructions on Orbiter 2.0 page on how to screw in that metal filament guide after the gears. It must be just not touching the gears.
Make sure drive gear teeth are aligned with filament guide; you might need to use one or few shims to push back the gear.

[tidal hollow]

Hi everyone,

I’m running a Voron Trident: Stealthburner + CPAP, LGX Lite, Dragon V2 hotend (80 W).

I want to increase flowrate, and I’m unsure if I should just upgrade the hotend or also the extruder and go for a new toolhead like XOL.

I’m considering Orbiter or Galileo with Dragon ACE with Extender—are these still current/recommended options for high-flow printing with 0.6–1 mm nozzles?

Any advice for high flow would be much appreciated!

[molten lily]

If you want to increase flow rate you should mostly be looking at a new hotend.

If you print with large nozzles you should be looking at hotends with huge meltzones: CHC XL (questionable) goliath, tricorn, mosq magnum+, chube air, chube conduct ect

[tidal hollow]

I’m aware of that, but I’m not sure if my LGX Lite will handle it. If I need to change the extruder too, I’d probably redo the whole toolhead (maybe XOL) and switch to an eddy probe instead of Clicky.

That said, I’d prefer to keep the LGX Lite if possible.

My budget is around 100 € in the EU (ideally Spain). I’m currently looking at:

Dragon ACE MZE (~80 €)

Rapido Plus 2 HF (~99 €)

[molten lily]

I have had really bad experiences with rapidos of all kinds. I used to run them a lot. Dragon ace volcano (DAV) is the way to go for a reliable budget mid flow hotend.

[raven pewter]

LGX Lite should be fine. You will almost always outrun your hotend first. If not, try increasing extruder motor current a bit until it does.

[tawdry path]

So far i have used HGX lite etruder variants. I have no experience with BMG type extruders. For toolchanger i wamt to keep it budget so i want to do DB with bambu hotend and WW-BMG extruder as a cheaper version of WW extrduer. So anyone running WW-BMG to coment on experience, performance, issues?

[round crane]

Need help. I want to use dual filament sensor in my extruder for mmu. But i runout endstop pin on my sht36 v3 toolboard (for x endstop, klicky probe, and filament sensor). I can realocate the x endstop but that mean more cable through the gantry and i hate more cable . is there any pin i can use for my second filament sensor?

[wintry dew]

If you are using at PT1000 then you can use the thermistor port as another endstop port.

[round crane]

Oh really? Which one is it?

[wintry dew]

I don’t understand your question.

[round crane]

Which one did i use for the endstop in my sht 36

[wintry dew]

I don’t know how you wired your board.

[wintry dew]

This is my board with an add on PCB I made to make wiring the sensors and fan easier.

Most GPIO can be inputs other than:

• GPIO24 output only
• GPIO26 (RGB) output only

[round crane]

Oh wow thats insane. Did you had the design file?

[wintry dew]

I have not released it yet.

[arctic flint]

I’m officially over fighting against the design of the Stealthburner, and now I have an MMU I want a more robust cutter than Filametrix (no shade on the project I just can’t get it working reliably myself - skill issue).

Given I’d like to keep using my CNC tap, am I correct in thinking A4T with a crossbow is the way to go? I’ve ordered myself an Orbiter 2.5+filament sensor and have an EBB36 gen2 which I’m pretty happy with.

[raven pewter]

There isn’t a ton of filament cutter options out there for Voron toolheads.

Here is some options if you filter by filament cutter: https://toolheadbuilder.gallinetwork.com/toolhead-builder/

[molten lily]

If you go for an mmu setup you will want something that is really close cut. The best option is probably something like RX toolhead. A4t also cuts it really close to the hotend

[hybrid fog]

So, if I go a 8:60 gear ratio for the extruder I’m getting more force but will I run out of push at higher flows?

[rancid forum]

bigger gear ratio = stepper motor needs to spin faster, but it delivers more torque

[wanton sandal]

Would fyset cnc sherpa mini be a good extruder or do i have to change some parts from it like the peek gear? Not really familiar with all the different type of gears and the recommended ones

[molten lily]

No, the v3 sherpas are pretty good

[wanton sandal]

Awesome 👌

[slender glacier]

Anyone know what a reasonable temperature on a stealthburner extruder motor should be? Measured on the outside "shell" of the motor.

An LDO-36STH20-1004AHG(XH)

There are no fans so i would think it runs hot?

I have run_current set to 0.5 and measure about 70 degrees C.

Having issues with print stopping, du to no filament extrude (sensor), i manually have to push 0,5-1 CM of the filament down then its good to go.
Then perhaps 5 min later i have to repeat.
Some times it can run 1 hour.

On a 4 hour print it has stopped 10 timed, currently watching it and its been ok the last 30 min.

Could it be that my motor is running to hot and causing a soft stall of some sort?

[ruby pumice]

Don't know, I never measure mine. Normal run for that motor is 0.60-0.65A

Might be worthwhile to disassemble and see if you have an assembly problem

[slender glacier]

Ty, I thought I read about that. Dunno how I manage to put 0.5 there.

I’ll try 0.6 and print again, but I noticed a possible issue.

The PTFE tube, are there any specifications for ID?
Couldn’t find anything specific, but, I saw some pictures online that showed a little tighter ID than what I had installed.

[native rapids]

the reverse bowden tubing should be 3mm ID. the piece between extruder and hotend should be 2mm ID.

[slender glacier]

Perhaps that all along could be the culprit… I used 3mm ID…

Did feel for every “stop” that I had to manually push the filament into the hotend, 5-10mm or something. Kinda felt some resistance.

Possibly hitting the outer rim of the hotend? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[normal tiger]

chasing an issue of skipping in the extruder. Once and a while I can hear it give a click click click while extruding, sometimes in only one specific part of a print. Had a look at my gears and they look okay but the drive gear on my clockwork 2 is able to slide fairly readily on the gear shaft. I don't recall if this is normal or not from the original build but I'm guessing that it is not.

If i pull on the filament while it's extruding i can feel a "dead spot" where it stops and then starts again. It prints rather nicely still though beside these issues so i'm rather confused. I feel like this would cause more of a problem.

[wintry dew]

Yeah, that set screw should be tight. The other failure point would be if the gear driving the shaft has cracked and is loose on the shaft as well.

[normal tiger]

I ordered the "Bondtech BMG IDGA Retro-fit Set" which appears to include the entire shaft assembly

[ruby pumice]

yeah, that's basically what IGDA is

[normal tiger]

i was able to repair the set screw but after reassembling the motor is skipping

i'm not sure if i overtightened something or it's misaligned

[normal tiger]

this is the same noise that I was mentioning before but it appears worse now.

[wanton sandal]

So i tried using sherpa mini cncn by fysetc, and in regular filaments its ok but in abrasives it keeps on jamming?

I lowered tension and also tightened tension, i tried to baby step the tension to the point that it will just grab the filament and when pushing through hot end, i tightened it little by little but still no luck

[tiny oriole]

Whats the "best" extruder for abrasive filaments? the CW2 cant grip my CF nylon good enough

[molten lily]

Are you either printing extremely slow with a high motor current or outrunning your hotend by pushing too much filament?

[molten lily]

You may want to try and repackage the gears in your clockwork into a sherpa mini. The tensioner is a bit more robust

[wanton sandal]

Either the one i have had bad tolerance or it is by design anyways i widen the exit points and it actually works now

[molten lily]

Oh ok good 👍

[wanton sandal]

https://youtube.com/shorts/dR9sYy5NRI0?si=ZZyC0lneTUtC1lob

Not sure if this issue for this one is a known or my luck is just terrible

[molten lily]

Looks like you have bad luck

I would contact fysetc

[wanton sandal]

I reached out to them too but havent heard back

[tiny oriole]

Interesting

Oh but it doesn’t work with stealth burner?

[wintry trout]

i think ive settled on the wristwatch g2 as a good lightweight planetary gear single drive extruder, but am i missing a newer option? i dont really know what my options are outside of that
i know of the two sherpas which seem nice but i wanted to use single drive

[ruby pumice]

That's a good choice, my memory is fading, Orbiter is in the same family but dual-drive
https://discord.com/channels/460117602945990666/1160715888048218193

[wintry trout]

gotcha, yeah, i was just looking around for a low backlash single drive extruder
i like my sovol ace's planetary extruder but for my own printer and for upgrading my old ender i wanted something lighter and single drive based on what i saw from vez, 247printing, the orbiter blog and elsewhere

and just, for something different too

anyways, i guess ill get one of those, seems like the g2sa internals or kit are around 45$ which isnt too bad i guess

[ruby pumice]

yeah, I run both the G2 and O2, haven't decided which I really favor. But G2 can be built more compact (than O2)

[wintry trout]

iirc the planet gears are metal and not plastic right? or am i misremembering

oh, nevermind, i think i see everything i need to know on the github :D

[ruby pumice]

yes, both those extruders are pretty well documented if you read

[red mesa]

I'm having issue when printing : "extruder" not hot enough. My printer used to work fine until recently. I did : PID_CALIBRATE HEATER=extruder TARGET=210
PID parameters: pid_Kp=29.179 pid_Ki=2.138 pid_Kd=99.576
The SAVE_CONFIG command will update the printer config file
with these parameters and restart the printer.

But I still get that same error when launching a print ; "extruder" not hot enough . Anyone knows what I can do ?

[native rapids]

i would suggest posting a summary of your issues in #1169407804386316288 with a klippy log, this is not related to your extruder but will be related to your print start macro

[acoustic lantern]

What's everyone's go to extruder these days?

[knotty gazelle]

The question is usually very specific "it depends".

Easy disassembly for cleanup? Pushing force? Looking cool? Weight? Size? Is it for toolchanger? Being cool and rather unusual?

Probably won't go wrong with Orbiter 2.5, Galileo 2 in one of repacks, Wristwatch BMG or one of Sherpas.

Papilio if you want something unusual.

[acoustic lantern]

I've ran Orbiter, Sherpa and recently the BIQU Nebula. I'm just looking got consistent extrusion quality

[knotty gazelle]

There's more into that than just extruder alone. I had Clockwork 1 on Switchwire and it made really nice prints. Trianglelab BMG gears.

But it also had Dragon SF and printed considerably slower 😄

People like G2, but it has bearing instead of second driven gear, thus pushing (or pulling) force may not be as high as Orbiter.

[acoustic lantern]

I keep getting artifacts in my prints that resemble z banding and I'm positive it's from the extruder. Just looking at some other options.

[knotty gazelle]

What printer? It could be real Z banding, bed not PID tuned, varying part cooling fan, motor pulley being tilted...

have you tried (R)IDGA to address potential drive gear eccentricity?

[raw compass]

WW MK8

[gentle kite]

I've been unhappy with the Stealthburner on my Trident recently, mostly with the steps of disassembly when it comes to jamming and the lack of feedback when tensioning. I haven't been paying too much attention to developments over the last few years so I'm not sure what's around. Dragonburner was the "it" thing last time I checked.

If I'm looking for something simple but modern with TAP and suitable for UHF, what extruders should I be looking at? Ideally I'd like to reuse my EBB SB2209 if I can.

[native rapids]

sb2209 is only really easily compatible with stealthburner, without using some weird adaptors

and are you asking more about the whole toolhead, or just the extruder

[gentle kite]

I guess that makes sense looking at the SB...
Toolhead would have been the better term. I'm set on the hotend I have (Dragon UHF) but the rest I'm open to changing, although preferably I'd wanna keep what I can from the SB out of frugality

[ruby pumice]

I'm with you on tensioning, it has not driven me crazy lately but is a problem. But honestly none of the other extruders I know of have anything, they are all zero feedback tension screws. It makes me lust after a Bontech extruders until I see the prices

And yeah, RIP SB22xx. Unfortunately EBB36 is used on basically everything else

[gentle kite]

I'm trying to knock out something in TPU right now so the tension issue really shows there

[ruby pumice]

yeah, one thing I "miss" about the Prusa was that you could be crude and count the number of threads showing at least. On SB you can probably do something similar with the antisquish screw

[near orchid]

Just a general question. I currently have a sherpa mini (3d printed frame), but have some issues with seam on prints. Can upgrading to a different extruder help improve seam?

[ruby pumice]

Probably not, which hotend do you have with it?

[near orchid]

TZ-V6-2.0 with HS 0.4mm

Generally print with ASA

[steady pumice]

Hey all, I have a possibly dumb question but always good to get a sanity check
I'm putting together the Miró extruder and it's all gone very smoothly, but when I run some filament through it, unless the tension is almost completely released I basically cannot move filament through it, the guidler arms look way more splayed out than they probably should be, almost like the smooth idlers are protruding too much but I've triple checked and the parts are printed correctly and they're pressed in as far as they'll go, is this normal or have I done something wrong ?

[native rapids]

@honest swallow or @gray phoenix may be able to help.

[steady pumice]

Some pics of how the bearing sits in the arm, if that's of any help

Pic with the bottom smooth idler + top geared, the smooth one just seems so splayed out

[honest swallow]

Yeah those arms are definitely way too far; it seems it is the smooth bearing at the bottom that is causing it to be that far

What's the size of the bearing you are using? Can you take a measurement of the diameter using some calipers?

It seems larger than spec'ed.

[steady pumice]

Annoyingly my calipers ran out of battery the other day but i do have a sinking feeling i maybe ordered the wrong ones, they're MR85ZZ bearings from trianglelab

[honest swallow]

the shaft looks larger than 5mm, looking at the pic it seems it is not sitting deep enough in the part

[steady pumice]

The shaft is a 5mm OD 8mm length steel cylindrical pin, which i believe is what was specified in the BOM

I'm truly baffled

[honest swallow]

I would suggest measuring it when you get new batteries

This is the separation on mine

[steady pumice]

Yeah that's more what i was expecting

[honest swallow]

5mm shaft 8mm bearing

[steady pumice]

I think it must be the printed part somehow as the pin fits the bearing perfectly, and i tried several other MR85ZZ's i had on hand with the same result

I tried printing it in a few different orientations just to see if that'd make any difference at all but nope

[honest swallow]

Make sure there is nothing in between then of you are sure

Take a pic of the Miro with the idlers out

Curious if something is in the way

[steady pumice]

How it looks with filament inserted

[gray phoenix]

it looks like the 5mm shaft is not completely snapped in please measure the 1.4mm ....

[steady pumice]

hmm yep that's what i was thinking too

[steady pumice]

Okay I figured it out thanks to your diagram, they were indeed sitting too far out, why exactly I'm not sure, could be due to the 0.5mm nozzle I use in my printer or it could be yet more Arachne nonsense, I used my soldering iron to sink a pin deeper into the slot and now it works perfectly, will do some testing to see why the holes are not printing deep enough before I print the final ones

Thanks very much for your time @honest swallow and @gray phoenix I really do appreciate it

[steady pumice]

Oh also you should release that weird mod you did for the mellow cannon, I really wanna build that

[wintry dew]

How goes your testing?

[void sequoia]

Well, they technically work pretty well but I keep buying different gears and they keep not being concentric. I’m considering switching back to the original Bondtech style gears because I can at least buy quality ones.

[turbid wigeon]

Do I need a clip here to “secure” the push-in collet?

[ruby pumice]

Yes of course, but it's not to stiffen it I think, it's to prevent the release of the tube

[turbid wigeon]

Is there a printed one? I can’t find anything on printables

[ruby pumice]

Oh, I've never looked. Most of us have them lying around everywhere. It didn't come with any?

[turbid wigeon]

No, no collect clips with LGX extruder

[ruby pumice]

I could be completely wrong, I don't own any of this fancy Bondtech stuff

[turbid wigeon]

Can’t even find a collet clip for ecas04

[ruby pumice]

Do the product picture show it....that is what I would reference

[native rapids]

https://www.printables.com/model/135121-collet-clip-for-ptfe-tube something like this

[ruby pumice]

It's not in their product pictures; I'll just switch to "I don't know". I think you should do whatever seems logical based on your experience holding it

[native rapids]

Could always ask in #bondtech what they recommend

[ruby pumice]

I'm jealous of your extruder, I would love to have a Lite Pro on one of my printers

[deft galleon]

The clip is generally only used for remote extruders connecting via bowden, not direct drive configured extruders

[river basin]

You might wanna print an extra, there is a hair line crack by the bottom screw

[raw compass]

Miro caught my attention but remixing is not allowed, so off the list it goes. there's just one integrated support for the whole set of parts whilst there could be more to ease printing or modify the tension arms to be printed without supports.
Sherpa Crew Redux seems to be older design, but with lower center of gravity even with its taller design due to having the stepper sit about 5mm lower and printing it is that much more bulletproof.

just my 2 cents.

[neat belfry]

So I am starting to wear out my teeth on my BMG gears. The gears are wearing out as they no longer grip the filament. The teeth are being worn down.

The extruder I am using are sherpa mini's. I cannot use the ridga gears because they will not fit into the triangle lab sherpa mini's I am using. What BMG gear set do you all recommend.

[native rapids]

Have you ever used bondtech brand, or have they all been generics?

[neat belfry]

I have used bondtech, and generics. However, I don't really have data on which last longer.
But, I am coming to a point to where I am wearing out multiple bmg gears, and I do not know which is which

[native rapids]

Hmm. You print many more miles of filament than I do, but for me years of abrasives use has never left a dent in bondtech gears. I’m not aware of anything better BMG wise, my other suggestions would be exploring larger gears/g2 etc.

[ruby pumice]

not the drive teeth I guess

[neat belfry]

@ruby pumice the teeth which contact the filament

[ruby pumice]

Dremmel some new teeth?

[ruby pumice]

Maybe try the Runice coated ones? They have a matte color so you'll be able to know later which set you're looking at

It just came to me, I think they called it DLC coated. Or is that just stuck in my head from gaming? I'm not sure....

[neat belfry]

Rnc coated?

[ruby pumice]

RCK coated?

[neat belfry]

https://west3d.com/products/hardened-rnc-helical-gear-for-double-gear-extruders-e-g-v1-v2-sherpa-etc?_pos=1&_sid=9e172d817&_ss=r

[ruby pumice]

Well....we all know that you should never order helical ones

[neat belfry]

why is that?

[ruby pumice]

someone post "the picture" please, I'm looking on AliE for the Runice ones

Ah yes, RNC
https://dfh.fm/products/rnc-coated-extruder-components-kit-by-runice

https://www.fabreeko.com/products/bmg-kits
Out of stock at Fab

#1156170093504512000 message

[wintry dew]

See the pin from RCF.

[neat belfry]

I do not see the pin

[wintry dew]

The forward above is the pin.

[mellow cradle]

the short answer is because CW2 was not designed to work with helical gears.

[blissful barn]

So what happened?

[blissful barn]

I do not see why helical gears are a problem, I also do not see why they should "maximize torque", have any influence on "wear resistance".

[native rapids]

the issues are explained in the forwarded post and conversation that follows. the forces generated are not ideal for our applications

[blissful barn]

They just reduce noise at high speeds and you can tweak the center to center distance, using them. Plus they look cool.

[blissful barn]

I wonder how high the forces actually are, but given the very questionable claims about improvements it is probably academic.
I would claim the main function is to "look fancy".

[native rapids]

which is of course very highly important for a part deep inside your extruder system. /s

[blissful barn]

Black opaque panels is the next big thing. One thing the helical gears are good at. You can make very small pinions with a few teeth only, which could give you some extra ratio. But that counts only when used for motor shafts.

[mellow cradle]

Your DIY printer is your DIY printer. Do what you want.

just we don't recommend helical extruder gears for our extruders. 🙂

[stable stirrup]

hey guys i have a stealth burner extruder that doesnt grip very well. when tighten or losen the idler knob it doesnt really change it. just grips weakly and eventually strips

Like should the teeth not be bigger to grip it?

[native rapids]

Everything in those pictures needs a severe cleaning before we would be able to comment further. Those gears have seen some things….

[stable stirrup]

its my fault anyways for leaving it

i shouldnt have left the grip that weak

[stable stirrup]

i re did it and cleaned it feels great now

[raw compass]

time for a toolhead swap and WW IDGA build

[stable stirrup]

lol

[wind ocean]

Hi voron wizards, I'm planning my doom build and need some pointers
Will there be any benefits/tradeoffs with upgrading to Bondtech lite pro (normal and/or slm viersions)? Haven't looked into the big gear hype yet so I'm hoping someone can give me a place to start.
Ideally I want single "all-rounder" printer (fast+quality) and lots of abrasives (75% of printing) .
Thank you

current parameters:
using allmetal wwbmg RIGDA v2 gears w/ 6T LDO.
No issues currently, prints fantastic for my speeds/accell 300-400mm/s @20k dragon uhf mze 0.4mm diambondback with plans to push speeds. No heatsoak issues for now.
Waiting for chube air to ship for takeofff.

[hybrid fog]

@timber zealot HGX gears can be used for these extruders

https://www.printables.com/model/822947-protoxtruder-20

https://www.printables.com/model/367706-hummingbird-extruder

https://www.printables.com/model/404246-large-gear-clockwork2

some food for thought

[rigid vale]

I quite like the design of the ProtoXtruder 2.0
I even modified it a bit to allow for easier cleaning/unclogging without the need for a single Allen key

[tawdry path]

So im running WWBMG with DB on my 2.4. The potential issue im fasing is short overlap between stepper gear and extruder pom gear.

The thickness of extruder back plate or where the bearing sits has not been modified....
IMO it is either the bmg gear is outof spec or stepper gear offset is different...

Either way i cant push bmg gear further in to the back plate...

Will inspect when i get home...

[native rapids]

would be useful to know which parts you printed and motor model/source when you have a chance.

[rigid vale]

your printed parts do not fit all that well

[native rapids]

The texture on the motor plate does concern me a bit

[tawdry path]

it is abs gf

[tawdry path]

A couple more picture. IMO the printed parts came our very acurate and nice..

Stepper is no name chinese frome ali express. From black surface around the gear to the top of the gear is 5.5mm

For Voron 2.4 NEMA14 36mm Motor Round Pancake 6BYG1204-A-6QHT for Orbiter Sherpa 3D Printer Voron Mini Extruder
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwUFUbU

[native rapids]

Hmm the gear on that looks fairly normal. Trying to think where the misalignment is coming from.

[tawdry path]

I have another set printed since im doing toolchanger

Will assemble thar one as well

[rigid vale]

you say the printed parts came out very acurate but they clearly don't fit well
the dovetails between the main body and the motor are being pushed apart so the parts don't line up

[tawdry path]

BMG Extruder kit Dual Drive Gear Hardened Steel Upgrade Feed Gear Extruder Kit For BMG For Prusa DIY Bowden Direct Extruder
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EHIpj7Y

[tawdry path]

Maybe slight missaligment

I think this is due to heat my heat insert

[rigid vale]

it's the 3 dovetails
maybe the parts are overextruded

I'm sure you can scrape the inside with a blade or a small file and make them fit better without reprinting
but they clearly don't fit well right now and they're twisting the assembly

[tawdry path]

Slightly better?

[rigid vale]

a bit better gear engagement but still not ideal
if the parts came out overextruded and don't fit you might need to scrape off some more

[tawdry path]

But where ?

[rigid vale]

you can see at the top that the edges still don't line up
the dovetails aren't fit well

[rigid vale]

the whole interface between the motor plate and the main body
it was very visible thanks to the dovetails, but if the parts are overextruded, it's the whole interface

[rigid vale]

that's why your motor is sitting further back than it should

[tawdry path]

But the bearing is almost through the back plate

If i measure the thickess of the back plate together with bearing in it is 3.15mm

[rigid vale]

well I can't inspect your parts for you and I don't have the CAD model in front of me, but the dovetails show that they were not printed acurately, so the fit is not good

maybe it's not just the GF that made them look a a bit bumpy

perhaps they got scaled to compensate for shrinkage twice? once by the designer and a second time by your slicer?

[tawdry path]

Hmm

[rigid vale]

in any case, you can see in almost every picture how the assembly is bent and twisted due to the poor fit

[tawdry path]

Also is this much slack ok

[rigid vale]

because the gears are barely meshing at all
the motor plate is twisted out of position

[tawdry path]

Another one assrmblrd. It is a bit better i think

[rigid vale]

it does look better

have you dried your filament well?
the fibers make it hold moisture better and that could be the cause of overextruded parts

hmmm
though even if the parts were perfect it seems that your motor is still gonna be sitting a bit too far back to mesh fully...

[tawdry path]

Yes

i think it is cheap gears as well

this one is much better atleast it has no slack on the gears

[rigid vale]

yeah, more acurately printed parts will help with that

[tawdry path]

I will mount this one and do a test run..

[stable stirrup]

hey extruders

im looking at the A4t toolhead

[wintry dew]

That would be too much in my opinion.

[tawdry path]

Ok new extruder, up the current in extruder from 0.6 to 0.8 amp. Turn on arc fitting and i kind of like the results a lot. This is from bottom 18mm3/s to the top at around 25mm3/s. Vase mode..

[rigid vale]

hehe I knew it wasn't the hotend reaching its limit

[rigid vale]

wait why is it slowing down in the middle of a straight line?

[tawdry path]

Dont know yet.

Need to ask wise people at duet forum about that

[rigid vale]

well if the printer is slowing down like that maybe the flow numbers you expect are not what you're actually getting...

[wintry dew]

Seam position?

[tawdry path]

Probably, but im still satisfied fith results

[rigid vale]

it happens more than once per loop
and a vase mode flow test should have no seams

[tawdry path]

Especialy stacking

[tawdry path]

Vase mode

Maybe it is duet 2 wifi age showing..

🤷‍♂️

[rigid vale]

motion planner getting overloaded?

[tawdry path]

Well, it is much better now that i turn on arcfitting

Where did i put yesterday tests..

hmm looking at g code i cant see any G2 and G3 commands so orca did not prosses arc fitting ?

[rigid vale]

🤷🏼‍♂️

should leave for the appropriate channels now that the extruder issues are gone, tho

[tawdry path]

yeah. Thank you for all the help. really appreciate. 🙂

[cosmic jewel]

has anyone else had issues with the WWG2 ECAS and automated filament loading? the filament seems to keep getting stuck in the ECAS somehow

[near orchid]

Is there a good resource for common extruder comparison? I currently have a printed sherpa mini, but the bearing holder cracked so i was looking to upgrade

[native rapids]

https://3dp-info.fyi/extruder-comparison

[near orchid]

this website is nice, but it only provides technical specifications. I have a hard time understanding why one extruder might be better than another. i was looking at galileo 2 because of higher gear ratio for more precise control. Is there any reasons one should pick one extruder over another?

i guess i am interested in the different strengths of each extruder for given application

[near orchid]

almost looks like maybe really bad input shaper settings?

[native rapids]

Mr @potent python is very good at explaining this sort of thing if they are available.

[potent python]

Im here, hi

[near orchid]

speedy

i was curious about the differences between extruders

[potent python]

Boss man called 😄

[near orchid]

mostly what each one is good at

or why i would pick one over the other and for what reason

for reference i have used the stock afterburner mini and sherpa mini on a V0 and didn't really notice much difference

[potent python]

If you're looking for a simple sherpa mini swap, wwbmg is a great choice. There is one in the a4t repo at armchair github that has a few nice advantages over sherpa mini while retaining sherpa mini mount spacing.

[near orchid]

i am not concerned with a complete replacement

i would say "end game" extruder

[potent python]

Notable differences are
The idler arm has more bulk, is less likely to bend
The bearing sits in a polyhole, which reduces stresses and prevents cracking
The heatset insert for idler tension is replaced with a square nut so it would have to pull through the whole plastic, rather than pull out.

[near orchid]

after looking at this one, i think i also used this one for a little bit too

[potent python]

Its actually exactly what i use. and i highly recommend it useually, with a rigda gear from bondtech. But i can give you a rundown of my other personal faves too

[near orchid]

my main question is why someone would choose G2 over something like sherpa mini or WWBMG

[potent python]

Orbiter 2 or 2.5 is excellent off the shelf, and great value tbh. Very decent extruders.
Galileo 2 is probably the best widely available extruder for wall quality. It has a large, very well machined gear and produced very consistent flow.
8t bmg varients have a ton of torque, have a low center of gravity normally, and are decetly light and simple and normally affordable. Rigda brings them to a place where they are in the ballpark of the other 2 above. Its splitting hairs but g2 is better ime.
Lgx lite pro is also meant to be really good and i like it a lot on paper, but its like €120 so i dont own one.

[near orchid]

120 euro for an extruder is nuts

[potent python]

I dont tend to recommend anything with worm drive, as they tend to like 48v and frankly i suspect they lose a lot of potential power to friction losses. Spur gears are ~99% efficient. Worm gears can be as bad as 50%, maybe 70-80% if its well setup

[near orchid]

i do have concerns with the flow consistency, but don't really have any other way to test it other than vibes

its caused by AB motors or extruder and i figured that changing extruder first would be cheaper/easier

[potent python]

theres 2 things that can happen. You get small scale repeating patterns (20mm of ome layer), caused by tooth to tooth problems, cause your gear mesh is loose. Or you get large scale (miltiple layers) patters caused by the hobbed gear being off center of the axis of rotation.

Rigda specifically is made to be very closely aligned to the axis of rotation. Thats why it costs a bit more.

G2 really took this far too

[near orchid]

i get VFA

that is my concern

[potent python]

well

[near orchid]

almost def caused by motors

[potent python]

Are they strictly vertical?

[near orchid]

yes

[potent python]

Then yeah thats motion not extrusion

[near orchid]

i think i will try going back to ww bmg because g2 would require new motor

if i decide to get ridga, would you recommend getting the whole set, not just the 50t+drive?

[potent python]

G2 kits come with the motor. They also need proper gears and the carrier and the planet housing and you shouldnt be printing any of that for good results

[near orchid]

kits are $50

[potent python]

Just the 50t gear is fine tbh

[near orchid]

wwbmg is basically filament lol

[potent python]

If it helps you feel more efficient with your hard earned money you can tell yourself its the better choice cause wwbmg has more torque and less weight. Tho honestly, thats not a huge deal in most setups.

But id be really surprised if you didnt like rigda. Just make sure the backlash with the motor is minimal.

Its the rigda oem v2 you need for wwbmg

[near orchid]

https://west3d.com/search?type=product&q=ridga
west3d only has the set

[tawdry path]

No imput shaper

[near orchid]

or the v1 by itself

[tawdry path]

It was just low jerk,..

[potent python]

Also, print a spare idler arm just in case. You never know, and its like 5p in filament

[tawdry path]

I got it dialed in now. Works nice..

[near orchid]

I assume the middle and right ones are v1?

[potent python]

Surely in the Us there is someone else...

[potent python]

They are IGDA, which has the hobbs far from the 50t and are backwards for most printed extruders.

[near orchid]

shoot ridga vs idga

[rigid vale]

@potent python sorry to butt in but I too am curious about extruder selection
is there any reason you'd recommend against using this one:
https://github.com/nhchiu/3DPrinter-Designs/tree/main/ProtoXtruder_2.0
I don't have enough experience with different extruders to say but I quite like the open design using those large gears

[near orchid]

no worries

[potent python]

https://kb-3d.com/store/spare-parts/920-bondtech-oem-reverse-integrated-drive-gear-assembly-ridga-v2-7350011417179.html

[near orchid]

my current drive gear is from formbot, so questionable quality

[potent python]

I would avoid the metal rigda unless you have direct, actual need for HT filament. Otherwise it just conducts motor heat into the filament, and wears out brass motor gears.

[near orchid]

sounds good

i don't have ht needs

[potent python]

I dont have any particular problem with that extruder. Its maybe unecessarily complex/heavy, and no one i have heard has raved about its print quality. But conceptually it could be very good with decent quality gears. I dunno tbh. Its almost certainly fine no doubt. I think with rigda wwbmg available it would have to be better than fine to be something id suggest anyone ever run and all i know for sure is that its heavier.

If you have lgx lite and think its having gear mesh problems, there a really fun solution for that

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/921882154990989333/1294985866480975882/Screenshot_2024-10-13-12-28-27-137_com.discord-edit.jpg?ex=6a6dd912&is=6a6c8792&hm=9e13d8039a824f92e2b49f2da2be00c15e4bf10e0df056c2c764186319947305&

Literally just shove the motor closer to the first gear, and it gets better they say

[rigid vale]

Okay thanks
I am not chasing the absolute best print quality as I really only do functional parts
I wanted an extruder that would have a better chance of printing super soft filaments like SEBS thanks to the larger gears
and also be easy to open to clean up in case it still grinds the filament

[potent python]

Oh, large gears are a mixed blessing

Tpu, sebs, pebs, they'll find any hole they can and pop out of it right

[rigid vale]

hehe they do

[potent python]

Now, especially with printed extruders, its really hard to get the filament path up to the gears

Its even harder with bigger gears to close that front and back gap

[rigid vale]

Yea I can see that, but spaghetting out of the extruder is not the most common issue I've had with the soft filaments
SEBS specially gave me a ton of issues with grinding between the gears as it is soft and rubbery like an eraser
I hope that lower pressure between the gears would help me print with that successfully in the future

I also modified the design a bit to make possible opening it up without tools, for when I eventually have to clear any such issues

[potent python]

sounds reasonable.

[rigid vale]

I don't mind trading a bit of print quality if it means the print doesn't fail halfway due to grinding
that SEBS stuff is hell ngl I have had so many failures

[potent python]

If you do get issues, you could cut some ptfe tube to a sharp point, and slide that into the bottom of a modified housing.

Or buy some stainless steel tubing even, im sure 2mm ID is available on amazon or whatever

[rigid vale]

ah that's a good idea
bore a 4mm though hole and line the thing with a sharply cut PTFE piece

[potent python]

Thats it yeah

Tbh, stainless tubing is tempting me.

[rigid vale]

I'll seriously consider doing that when I build my next toolhead
that's quite a good idea, given how difficult it is to print a sharp filament path in there

[potent python]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Stainless-Capillary-Seamless/dp/B0GX1TH7MT/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?
Not even expencive

[rigid vale]

hmm any reason to choose PTFE or SS over the other?
The path to the hotend in the toolhead is already made for a piece of PTFE so it could be a single one all the way from the gears

[potent python]

Ptfe will be lower friction and kinda hard to cut straight and not that strong.
SS feels lile itll be easier to get in a useful shape, slightly more friction, but we already use it in hotend so it cant be that bad right? orbiter uses SS

Would behoove us to find a way to key said tube into place as well. To stop the pointy bit from spinning into the gears

[near orchid]

you're in the readme. biased source

[potent python]

Am i?

[near orchid]

https://github.com/bythorsthunder/Voron_Mods/blob/main/Wristwatch_Extruder_BMG/README.md

[potent python]

Aww, nice.

[potent python]

https://github.com/Armchair-Heavy-Industries/A4T/tree/main/STL/WW-BMG for A4T
I recommend this one

Slightly changed, all for the better imo

[near orchid]

should i still be able to put this on dragon burner?

or should i replace my DB with A4T

[potent python]

This one uses sherpa mini spacing

So, uhh, yes?

Should fit absolutely fine. DB has lots of room

DB is really performant for its size and stuff. Changing toolhead is out of the scope of my cares right now 😄

Im gonna play some video games for a bit. Feel free to tag me with questions, but replies may be significantly delayed

[near orchid]

don't have square nut

also requires ecas 4mm which i do not have

maybe worth the purchase of those parts though

[potent python]

Ecas i say absolutely. I think square nuts are really good to have on hand too. Very affordable. Very easy to design for if you plan on doing any cad at all

[near orchid]

what is the advantage of ecas

i don't even understand what it is really

[near orchid]

@potent python, i do have a separate question that you may know the answer to. when i print the ww bmg, the bearings do not press fit. however, they are not super loose. are they supposed to press fit when printed?

pretty much when i turn the parts upside down, the bearings do not fall out, but they are certainly not snug either

[potent python]

Oh its just a ptfe tube holder really. Springy metal ring that grips inside a housing. It doesnt let go, and i think its generally better than push fit.

[potent python]

So the one i linked is not a circular hole. Its designed to have less stresses. It should stay put on its own. I guess if its loose enough that itll fall out by tapping it on a table you might want a bit more flowrate on the print

[near orchid]

I just put the worlds smallest dab of super glue on the bearing to hold it in place

[near orchid]

maybe i do have one

[near orchid]

just for sake of discussion, the sherpa mini was fine, but two of the parts failed

one cracked like this (which was repairable with super glue)

the other cracked like this

I have a feeling the first one was from overtightening the screws

but the second one is just from the fitment of the shaft

[near orchid]

i am building ww bmg

[zealous cargo]

Yea I dont remember my other one being this hard to turn by hand, and the motor plate sat flush im pretty sure.

[near orchid]

not the exact one you sent

i think your 50T is on backward

can't really tell from the video you sent

[near orchid]

i take it back

does it fit together without the drive gears?

[zealous cargo]

Yeah..

[knotty moon]

Is this from a cheap BMG kit or are these bought separate gears

[near orchid]

i think this spacing should not exist

try to loosen the set screw and reassemble

[zealous cargo]

if i push the gear inward any more it rubs on the plastic housing

[near orchid]

can you try to assemble without that gear?

take it off the shaft entirely and just leave the idler

if it closes without it, that might indicate the spacing is not supposed to be there

[zealous cargo]

uh arent they typically glued on

[near orchid]

depends on the vendor i guess

i've never had one glued on

[zealous cargo]

https://a.co/d/0ihL4Q9U got this guy based off a recommendation by @quartz cave

[near orchid]

it has a set screw

[zealous cargo]

Oh I thought u said to take the white gear off, which doesnt have a set screw..

[near orchid]

miscommunication

keep the 50T on and remove the filament drive gear

i am not sure if the 50T is glued or if it is press fit

but i had to assemble mine with the formbot kit i bought, so i assume it is press fit

[zealous cargo]

the reason im using this specific IDGA version of the wwbmg is because i wanted to ruse the gears from my formbot kit lmao

[near orchid]

hm

send me the link to the kit you bought?

[near orchid]

i think you need to adjust the placement of the white gear then

[zealous cargo]

https://www.formbot3d.com/products/voron-24-r2-pro-corexy-3d-printer-kit-with-m8p-cb1-board-and-canbus-wiring-system?VariantsId=10457 got the 350 from here, this gearset im using rn is NOT the one from the formbot kit, the formbot gears went together fine

[near orchid]

ok

[zealous cargo]

they werent adjustable from idga to ridga like the set from amazon

[near orchid]

gotcha

i was going to say i thought the formbot shipped with ridga

[zealous cargo]

Mine didnt

it was idga, which is required for the CW2

[near orchid]

ok

i must be insane

[zealous cargo]

lol

u used the stock formbot gears for a regular ridga extruder? how

[near orchid]

maybe i didn't

i really don't know

i have only used the stock v0 extruder, ww bmg, and sherpa mini

i am unsure which if any are idga or ridga

[zealous cargo]

maybe my backplate warped from taking it off the bed too fast and thats why it doesnt sit flush with the gear in, idk lmao

[near orchid]

possible

does is rock when you put in on the table?

also please verify if there is 3mm or less on the one end of the shaft

i would imagine you'd want the same spacing for that extruder, but i can't be sure because i am unfamiliar

[zealous cargo]

3.16 i think..

i feel like maybe the gear is slightly too wide or something to fit in the cavity for it

idk

[near orchid]

that would be weird

does the backplate rock back and forth on a flat table?

aka is it warped?

[zealous cargo]

Doesnt seem to

[near orchid]

how thick is the 50T gear?

[zealous cargo]

3.25

[near orchid]

the bondtech idga set says 3

but again

.25 doesn't seem like it would make a difference

are the bearings set properly?

[zealous cargo]

What do you mean by that..

[near orchid]

the bearings on either side of the drive shaft have little holes where they fit in to the plastic housing

are they set in the bottom of those holes?

I will send a ss, give me a sec

[near orchid]

your backplate one looks good

i am assuming it is flush with the surface?

[zealous cargo]

yeah

[near orchid]

is this one flush with the first lip too?

[zealous cargo]

https://github.com/minilogique/ww-extruder-for-idga/blob/main/STLs/WWBMG BEEFIER MOTOR PLATE.stl now he does have a "beefier" motor plate available..

not sure if that means more room for the gear or what

ahhh rip.. #1512544878716784690 message

i just noticed the designer's note in there

"friction. depending of the used mechanical parts and printer setup the main parts are printed with, putting too much tension on the bolt that holds the tension arm can bend the motor plate piece and flex, so it rubs heavily against the 50T gear and causes unneeded friction. also if you're using 2-piece BMG gear meaning not the billet version but the one with the shaft without a flatspot and BMG gear with grub screw, if the grub screw stands too tall, it can also run against the printed main body. because I personally have not experienced that, I have not accounted for that. if that is the case, do let me know."

well the grub screw isnt sticking too high but the main gear is rubbing..

[near orchid]

so forgive me, but why are you using this extruer instead of normal ww bmg?

[zealous cargo]

IDGA gear support.

[near orchid]

but isn't the kit you bought interchangable?

[zealous cargo]

Yeah but I wanted to make them all match.. I guess they dont HAVE to

i have a stealthchanger

[near orchid]

i get that

[zealous cargo]

would be weird to have tool 1 be a different extruder but yea i guess it doesnt matter

[near orchid]

ah i wish i knew you had a thread open for this

[near orchid]

ig, but there really isn't an issue wanting it all the same

[zealous cargo]

im confused

[near orchid]

i'm saying there is nothing wrong with wanting all the extruders the same

[zealous cargo]

ah ok

[near orchid]

i don't think i will be more help than minilogique

[zealous cargo]

tbh

maybe i should just use a "standard" extruder for this tool and if it works out, spend another 15 bucks and rebuild the original with this also..

[near orchid]

yeah

probably worth your sanity and time

[zealous cargo]

not doing myself any favors going a route that only 1 other person has gone

[near orchid]

yep

if you want to tinker, fine

if you want to print... just spend the $$$

[zealous cargo]

https://github.com/PrintersForAnts/AntHead/tree/main/STLs/Extruders/BMG any idea why there are 2 different tensioner arms and why one is accent color the other isnt..?

[near orchid]

couldn't tell ya

[zealous cargo]

crap that ones not sherpa spacing

Alright well i guess ill reprint the O2 anthead body with the regular WWBMG..that should work..

[near orchid]

i think a4t makes a sherpa spacing wwbmg?

[near orchid]

this one @zealous cargo

[zealous cargo]

I just printed the new anthead body that has orbiter 2 spacing and kept the stock wwbmg

Thanks for that though

[near orchid]

np

[zealous cargo]

The print is already going 😅

[near orchid]

only reason i knew that existed is because weaslus spoonfed it to me

too bad i was out

[near orchid]

putting the ecas on is peak

[halcyon lintel]

question which i feel is simple but also can't find a direct answer. but for a voron 2.4 that will start with a stealthburner and eventually be a stealthchanger. I kinda just stuck on was extruder to go for. the sherpa mini/micro seems like a good old classic thats well received. but orbiter 2.5 is newer and the orbiter series in general seems liked a solid choice.
so ya any help would be appreciated. because i don't need the best of the best, just reliable and works, and aint gonna break the bank.

[native rapids]

There are only really two extruders that work well with stealthburner- the default clockwork2 and the alternative galileo2. The Sherpa and orbiter are for alternative toolheads.

[halcyon lintel]

given i am looking to eventually upgrade to a mini burner for the stealthchanger system. and a lot of cross compatible . though seems the Galileo2 uses a modifed standalone version for the mini burner. so 3 mentioned above all technically work in the final toolhead of the mini, but not all are 100% supported in the normal burner. because thats the case, what would you recommend. Since i'm not in a rush to build my voron then upgrade it.

[zealous cargo]

Welp...that looks suboptimal...

[native rapids]

Well, both cw2 and g2 have parts that can be “repacked” into other extruders.

[halcyon lintel]

thats a fair point, and if nothing else the ldo motor most likely can be pass on atleast saving a good 30 bucks

[zealous cargo]

Any idea why this extruder is all loosey goosey

I printed a different one with the same settings and it didn't do this

[knotty gazelle]

Sidenote - the whole point of "Integrated Drive Gear Assembly" is to have shaft and drive gear milled from single piece, to avoid runout caused by possible eccentricity caused by putting drive gear on shaft and securing with set screw.

IDGA abd RIDGA are sold in configuration you choose, because the drive gear cannot be moved.

The set you say that "can be changed from IDGA to RIDGA" is a standard BMG set (or a clone).

You can't change IDGA to RIDGA, you need to buy a new single piece.

[quartz cave]

I’d run with it. I think at least one of mine is like that. The filament once loaded will hold it in place.

[zealous cargo]

I mean...I ran it in both configurations last night, one with the extruder path close to the big gear and one with it further away

Thought that was the difference?

https://a.co/d/05Or7UEZ

[knotty gazelle]

Yes, that is the diffrence, Sherpa and Wristwatch does it to shrink the footprint. I just thought you may be confusing names, because IDGA is specific Bondtexch product and not BMG drive gear position.

[zealous cargo]

Oh

Nah I meant gear orientation.

[knotty gazelle]

Ah OK 😄

That makes it clear.

[zealous cargo]

I switched from the idga WBMG to the "standard" one and flipped the gears

[knotty gazelle]

I believe there's also mod for SB version of gears

Mod for WWBMG that is

I swear I saw it somewhere

[near orchid]

mine moves like this. there should be some axial movement

when you insert the filament, it constrains the axial movement

you kinda want it to move back and forth because it allows the gears to self-align

[near orchid]

especially on WW BMG because the set screw is not accessible when filament is loaded, so you cannot adjust the position of the gear

[analog hound]

Yo guys, can someone help design a custom adapter mount for the Dragon Burner?
I own a Kobra 2 and I wanna mod the hell out of that thing, just for fun and learning, and I was thinking of changing the stock toolhead with the Dragon Burner. But I can't figure out which holes are used for mounting the toolhead on a mount; I obviously looked at the CAD but I'm simply too dumb.
Can someone give me some advice? Thank you!

[native rapids]

We can’t provide support for non voron printers. You will have to seek advice from whichever communities exist for your machine.

[analog hound]

my bad, I didn't mean to ask for support on a non-Voron printer
I just need a quick clarification on the Dragon Burner design itself: which exact holes on the toolhead body are meant to attach it to a mount? I'm designing my own custom cowl/mount from scratch and just need to know which standard mounting points to reference in the CAD.

[ruby pumice]

Maybe ask in #1182811180566331432

[analog hound]

Thank you

[wide lodge]

@potent python it looks like a good cleaning didn't do it either. I think I just have a bad set of gears

[potent python]

Hmmm, this sawtoothy kinda thing over the top of that photo honestly makes me wonder if theres something else afoot. Got a klipper.log you can share?

[wide lodge]

It's a few days old but I've been having this problem for a bit.

[potent python]

Hmmm, might be worth trying stealthchop off on the z motors for a print.

I assume the mihai test was vase mode so z hop wont be an issue.

[wide lodge]

Actually I did 2 perimeters

[potent python]

Oh, thats destroyed its meaning

That may explain some confusion of mine.

Vase mode is necessary, it forces a repetition in a decreasing pattern. Shows up extruder vs motion clearly that way

[wide lodge]

Ok I'll try vase mode in the morning.

[wide lodge]

This is in Vase mode. I also turned stealthchop on my z motors off

[potent python]

Ive just noticed extruder is also on stealthchop :D. I was looking to check the current. Ive seen before with low current some weird artifacts like the tiny wiggles you have in places. Your current looks good where it is, but im totally unsure if stealthchop could cause it tbh.
Does this look better in person, or are photos misleading?

[wide lodge]

The photo is misleading. the single layer just had too much cooling and it rippled a bit

my current is set to 0.65A

actually extruder is not in stealthchop mode. I have TMC Autotune set to performance

[potent python]

Well that answers that. Im guessing autotune also changes current, do you know what it sets it to?

Im also not seeing this stuff in your log file.
https://github.com/andrewmcgr/klipper_tmc_autotune#how-do-i-know-tuning-was-applied
But your log looks like its from before klipper has finished booting, so maybe it just didnt get around to that yet.

[wide lodge]

Here is one I just did. TMC Autotune should touch the current.

[potent python]

Thanks. Yeah, all the stuff you said seems correct.

Hmmm.

Only easy thing i havent mentioned, when you drop the motor gear into tje extruder, it should go in easy. No fighting at all, and have a little play. But i dont suspect youd have gotten that wrong.

[wide lodge]

Ya I 've made sure it sit in smoothly. I did notice I didn't have much back and forth play and made a modified back plate that didn't change anything so I went back to the original. I do notice some defects in the injected molded parts but I didn't see anything around the teeth and it looks cosmetic but that my only other theory.

[potent python]

Starting work now, back later.

[potent python]

Yeah im a little lost for theories tbh. If you navigate to my github (through my bio) you can use this test print to take some measurements and fill out a spreassheet. Hopefully thatll give me some numbers something close to the lgx lite stuff, and i might get an idea of where that small scale wave pattern is being produced.

[wide lodge]

This is pattern 1 the large wood grain pattern

[potent python]

Any chance you could annotate one of those photos to show me pattern 1 and 2?

[wide lodge]

and here is pattern 2 the sawtooth pattern

[wide lodge]

Here's the photos of the print. I edited to make the lines pop. The sawtooth goes all the way up and down the model

[potent python]

The larger one definately feels like something mechanical. Hobbed teeth tend to have similar spacing reguardless of gear. These g2 gears are made by bondtech, so stands to reason the spacing would be similar to lgx or bmg. So it could still be that. The smaller, fast repeating pattern. That one honestly could be that the motor is unhappy with something. That might be something that never goes away, or goes away very quickly when you ask for a higher flow rate or different run current.

I cant be sure either way if its hobbed teeth (so just tension), or some set of interactions in the planetary gearbox from the numbers, but they are helpful in saying that larger grain is absolutely mechanical, and absolutely extruder. Playing with autotune on/off, and different run currents between 0.5 and 0.65 might get a better result on the small one. Unfortunately thats about all the help i can give you. Its a real shame as g2 has been beautiful for me and youd absolutely want better results.

[wide lodge]

maybe I should just switch over to WWBMG. I have a 10T moons motor and all I would need is the RIGDA. It would also help with my Crazy Ivan setup.

[potent python]

It seems the easiest option. Would be kinda sad, but maybe on another machine, with another stepper driver or something, it mysteriously behaves better.

[wide lodge]

I have gone through the driver settings and tried many different things. current, stealthchop, toff, coolstep etc. I think one thing is probably defective and I'm just not sure which part. I may have had these same issues with my stealthburner and G2E but I had other issues because I'm running a dragon uhf mini.

[wide lodge]

Already printed the new extruder

[wide lodge]

My gosh... this thing is tiny

[wide lodge]

Is this offset normal for the moonS 10T motor and RIDGA?

[pine sun]

Yes 🙂

[wide lodge]

Thanks. I guess I'll try and make a fix.

[pine sun]

Theres not really much more space because the bearing or shaft of the 50t gear is already almost touching the motor

[wide lodge]

I'm seeing like 1-1.5mm of gap from the end of the shaft to the back of the plate when I align the RIDGA with a piece of filament.

[pine sun]

My memory might be wrong then 😄

[wide lodge]

I did remember reading the back shaft was 3mm and I'm measuring 2.5mm which matches the bearing

[wide lodge]

Well that's about as good as it's going to get

[rough topaz]

Which extruder is this?

[void sequoia]

My own design. Haven’t named it yet.

[rough topaz]

Ahhh, so I can assume unreleased then?

[void sequoia]

Yep. I’d like to release it but I still haven’t found a reliable source for good gears.

[native rapids]

what have you tried so far?

[void sequoia]

The first set I got that was good I got on AliExpress and then couldn’t find it again. I got another set on Ali and a couple on Amazon and they were a little out of concentricity. They work well enough but I suspect I’m getting some inconsistent flow on tools 2 and 3 on my Stealthchanger.

[native rapids]

have you tried proper bondtech gears yet?

[void sequoia]

Yes, on my previous design. They’re thicker than the HGX2.0 gears so they wouldn’t fit on this version. I have considered giving up and just going back to the LGX gears.

[pine sun]

That's actually pretty nice!
I should look into my setup how it looks there, tho I never had problems with it. There is used ridga v2 gears aswell

[wide lodge]

I need to move it a smidge back for filament alignment but gear tooth engagement should stay at about 95%. The only way to get full engagement would be to have the bearing and maybe shaft against the motor. Once I'm finished, I can upload it if you want to try it.

[rough topaz]

I see you were testing wood grain and building a RIDG extruder... what was thew result of your testing. Was the RIDGA an improvement? What did youy start with?

[wide lodge]

I'm still making adjustments to the WWBMG to fit the RIDGA better. I think this is the last adjustment I will need.

What you see in the test here show exactly what I started with. Nothing I did to my WWG2 helped the wood grain.

[wide lodge]

I might have to wait for a new motor... Black wire insulation is coming up right at the base

[wide lodge]

But the engagement is great, doesn't touch the motor. There is probably at least a 10mm difference between this and the WWG2 comparing where the back of the motor sits

[rough topaz]

Even a smooth (bearing?) idler?

Its so funny...Ive chased wood grain through a few gear sets. have found 2 cheap BMG gears that just work flawlessly in a CW2, whether its the luck of alignment as they sit, or the luck of the gear cut not producing wood. I wonder if more precisly cut gears gaurentee woodgrain. At least with poorly cut gears you might get lucky some how.

[ruby pumice]

If the motor is working, you could try to DIY a strain relief for it. Maybe E6000 which is flexible but strong

Makes me want to put E6000 on mine before install

[wide lodge]

Well I have some left over RTV that might work

[wide lodge]

Heck ya! I'm not leaving it up to chance. Might use my G2 tensioner screw because the BMG is super tight

[rough topaz]

Wait, you are infact getting bad woodgrain with a smooth idler?

[wide lodge]

I was getting wood grain on my G2 with a smooth idler. No idea why

[wide lodge]

ok I do have it on and started testing. That smooth idler arm adds a of pressure. might need to be modified if its too high.

[wide lodge]

Well, it can do at least 50mm³/s

[rough topaz]

Ha, and its a rigda bondtect gear set yeah?

[wide lodge]

no that was the Galileo 2 gears

[buoyant wind]

Strange how periodic is it. Might possibly be that the pinion isn’t perfectly aligned with the spider shaft and planets

[wide lodge]

What's even stranger is it may have somehow not been the extruder.

@potent python hey I just swapped extruders and it seems that sawtooth pattern is still there

[wide lodge]

I think the wood grain is still there but it is harder to see

[potent python]

The sawtoothing is cooling related.

the stuff at the corner that is

Or PA maybe i guess. Dirty nozzle even.

But thats a print designed to make obviously visible patterns if theres an extruder problem. If you're not able to see that on this print, youll never see it on any other.

[potent python]

Woodgrain has always been caused by a poor mesh between the motor and 50t gear in my experience.

With the vanishingly few exceptions of it being caused by motor resonance.

And never seen anyone not fix it, and have to change to a smooth idler.

[tepid sierra]

New v02 build here with the miniSB. I'm getting intermittent under extrusion that presents itself a bit like heat creep, but it's right out of the gate when I start printing. I'll get maybe 10 seconds of solid extrusion, and 5 of just sporadic blobs, then a period of proper extrusion, then sporadic blobs. It happens with PLA, ABS, PETG - all straight out of my dry box at 10% humidity. All parts printed quite nicely (way nicer than the parts that went into the 2.4 that birthed this 0.2) and the toolhead went together quite well. I only needed to sand the shaft of the gear down to fit into the bearings. It's still just a little tiny bit snug - it slips in without force, but doesn't slide freely. Could this be my issue? edit: Teeth marks are visible on clear PLA, but can only see them in the reflection on my lighter colored filaments. I'm not getting any clicking sounds from the stepper.

[potent python]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/921882154990989333/1165372068892770364/PXL_20231021_193051647.jpg?ex=6a967f90&is=6a952e10&hm=a8900344876032e8549ca23049b4cd47f092c801617e6cfd06ea0790b5675a04&

Good tension to aim for ^

Sounds like it could well be just that

[tepid sierra]

Thank you so much. I could have just looked at the filament on my other printer, but didn't because I an idiot. 🙂

Increasing spring tension significantly didn't improve anything, likely the antiquish thinger is adjusted out too much?

[tepid sierra]

Anti-squish thinger! Such a simple fix, I just got caught on all the other problems it could be. Thanks!

[wide lodge]

Well the problem I have have is it shows up as vertical lines that look like ringing even on thicker prints.

Admittedly it's not fully calibrated. Mostly just wanted to see if the same pattern was there and it unfortunately is.

[twilit orchid]

for the orbiter, is there a replacement for the steel filament exit guide ? Just print it ?

[rough topaz]

All kind of issues acn arise from over extrusion. If you havent tuned your EM, start there. Try loweing the EM past op6timal a few % and try again... Just saying in case you havent already.

[iron cosmos]

In 2026 is there a go to extruder? I had an orbiter 2.5 on my ender, was debating buying another or going wwg2

[native rapids]

i have a soft spot for galileo stuff, but orbiter is good too. g2 obviously has the fun of printing/building with it

[iron cosmos]

That was my sticking point lol. As long as there's not a huge winner then I'll keep thinking about it

[deft galleon]

I'm a planetary gear fan for extruders and I'm an Orbiter fan, so I can easily recommend them. I do have kits for the G2E but my Obiter and Orbiter derived extruders just keep on working

[iron cosmos]

I do like just keep working. As long as both are still good (and it sounds like trhy are). I wanted to check cause a lot of posts ive seen on it were old

[wide lodge]

So I did optimize and it didn't really change. I think now despite the wood grain pattern, it's not the extruder.

[potent python]

Cut some PTFE tube to fit as best you can?

Might wanna make sure it wedges in there to stop it spinning at hitting the gears. A layer of electrical tape does okay with that in printed parts

[hybrid fog]

Hey man pick a flag in #rules because I’m your near me I may have a part for you. (Victoria Australia 🇦🇺)

[keen moth]

Tassie

[hybrid fog]

so i have a o2.5 collecting dust if you where nearer to me i would swap it lol

[keen moth]

Thanks mate, it would cost more to make the journey than to buy a new one, or ten 😂

[marsh fractal]

Did I screw something up or is the the amount of gear engagment for a WWBMG with RIDGA?

Seems like there should be more overlap between the stepper and RIDGA

[rugged yew]

On WW-IDGA I'm running into and issue with the tension arm, my first issue was the pin backing out and the dual drive gear losing tension, now the main screw holding the pivot backed out and I lost tension, I think I solved the pin issue but would some lock tight be the answer for the pivot screw

[warm hare]

Working on a WWBMG ridga for the A4T, and I feel like the main shaft of my gear set is slightly too long, requiring the motor plate to have to bend around the rear bearing

I reprinted the parts scaled up 100.6% to remove any shrinkage but still having the issue

[warm hare]

I think the small shoulder on the rear side of the main gear is the issue, this set is from aliexpress and it looks like the gear is supposed to be ~ 1 mm to the left, which would clear space up

[wide lodge]

No this is normal. Had the same issue with my moons 10T. I actually modified a plate to get more engagement.

[wide lodge]

It's probably too far off the Bondtech spec. The shaft is probably rubbing on the motor

[iron cosmos]

Any issues with the mellow orbiter 2.5 vs the triangle labs? Looks like it's on sale for 45

I'm between a wwbmg, sherpa mini or orbiter

Or ww g2...

Leaning ww g2 but I like the idea of just getting a fully built orbiter/sherpa

[wintry dew]

I like my WWG2 but I think those are cheaper from West3D /Fabreeko/KB-3D than getting them on AliExpress.

[iron cosmos]

The wwg2 does seem very popular

[iron cosmos]

Kinda leaning sherpa cause it looks cool...

[warm hare]

I have a sherpa in use right now, only ~150 hours on it but its been very reliable

The thing I don't like is I feel like there are more/better thought out toolhead boards for WWMBG, at least for the nitehawk36

[iron cosmos]

Not sure what you mean

[iron cosmos]

Aren't toolhead boards mainly just based on a circle or square motor?

[ruby pumice]

You could say that, except for the ones designed for SB.
But you could also just say they are all designed for the pancake since the last common square one was CW1

[deft galleon]

AFAIK, they're the same extruder from LDO

I'm also a planetary gear fan with extruders and use the Orbiter v2 (and derived extruders) on my printers

[iron cosmos]

Didn't realize there's derived extrudera from an orbiter. That's cool then

[ruby pumice]

Yeah, the interesting dilemma becomes which you like more - O2 or G2. I run both

[iron cosmos]

Do you just take apart the orbiter and move the gears over?

[deft galleon]

They won't fit the G2, although I think someone may have done a version of the G2 to use the gubbins from the Orbiter v2.* but I know no more about that. The G2 kit is quite a bit different to the Orbiter v2

[native rapids]

i have seen at least one attempt to self produce an orbiter from the rough CAD robert offers for it

[ruby pumice]

Yeah its not that kind of situation, you have to pick in advance. The G2 kit can be built into a bunch of different printed extruder setups tho

[iron cosmos]

That's more what I thought. I didn't realize people use the orbiter for anything else.
I have an orbiter and ebb36 Gen 1 in my ali cart atm... Just deciding if i want to pull the trigger lol

[glad locust]

I’m having some major issues with my CW2, randomly out of nowhere it started chattering and making noises. Klipper then throws a warning that my ebb thermistor is close to 100c, so I shut down the printer. When I touch the stepper it is well over 100 degrees. I’ve let everything cool down and I’ve reassembled the tool head. It still makes a smaller chattering noise and refuses to extrude. I also have filament stuck in my hotend now, fully stuck. Will not move from either end

I have 2 of the same beam 14 stepper coming tomorrow for a different build, will try swapping the motor and see if that changes anything. It might just be burned out

[knotty gazelle]

what's yout run_current on that stepper motor and what is the motor rated for?

It's usually way lower than what the label says

[glad locust]

It’s rated for 1 amp, and I was running it at 0.71. However looking into my config files I found that my gear ratio was 50/17, I think this may have caused some issues. I don’t know why they presented themselves now though, the printer was running fine for 80 hours, and the print it stopped on wasn’t a long one

[glad locust]

looks like it may just have been a nasty hotend clog, steppers got delayed so I'm gonna run some tests with the one that "overheated"

[knotty gazelle]

0.71 sounds a lot, people usually run up to like 0.6.
Gear ratio for CW2 is 50:10 if your stepper motor has 10 🦷

[glad locust]

The extruder works, but I’m getting a strange artifact in corners. I made sure to recalibrate my rotation distance

[glad locust]

I double checked and manually counted everything, it’s 50:10

[knotty gazelle]

Those little motors get very hot, I'd start at like 0.4 and if it does not keep up, then increase.

[knotty gazelle]

That looks like pressure advance?

Do you have any PA in your config?

[glad locust]

Not in firmware no. everything is done in orca

[knotty gazelle]

You did not put any PA values in your Klipper?

[glad locust]

Nope, didn't alter anything in the config aside from rotation distance, gear ratio and run current

I'll run a recalibration just for safety's sake

The recalibration is not looking good….

I don’t think that’s what it’s supposed to look like

[knotty gazelle]

No.
Just in case double-check you pressure advance value in config itself?

[glad locust]

No config Pressure advance, only through slicer. Trying a fresh slicer profile cause the old one was calibrated for the incorrect extruder settings

[rugged yew]

running WWidga and a pika. my max flowrate caps out around 25 when my extruder motor start skipping steps. is this something that can be solved by upping the stepper current, i currently have run_current: 0.65 stealthchop_threshold: 0

previously on cw2 with ebb sb the gears would skip, but with the ww and ebb36 gen2 the stepper skips

[mellow cradle]

what filament / print temperature?

[rugged yew]

pla at 220

going hotter doesnt seem to help

petg at 255 caps out at 20mm^3/s

i dont have to go faster, i just bought the whole pika so kinda want to use as much as possible

[mellow cradle]

sure, just making sure you had considered hotter like 230 for pla for example