Strongest possible WarShip

[civic gale]

I did this on the official forums a few years ago(https://battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=77723.msg1837531), but let's post it here too, and see if anyone can do even worse things to the WarShip rules than I did.

With a lot of the threads on here, I try not to get too abusive with my builds - I put some flavour into them, avoid some of the gamier tricks, and generally try to make realistic ships. Just out of curiosity, though, I wanted to see what an absolutely tweaked out, rule-exploiting monstrosity would look like. And it's filthy.

Start at a max-size 2.5 million tons, of course. Keep fuel, cargo, crew quarters, and other such dead weight down. Because of the way that fire control weight works, you want to cram about a zillion small guns into a few arcs, and save the others for capital weapons - I like Nose/Aft/LBS/RBS for the small stuff, because that gives full 360-degree cover for the ship, and you can still make good capital-scale attacks on the broadside with the fore and aft corners.

For defensive purposes, you want 3/5 speed to get maximal SI with a reasonable weapons load left over. 150 SI gives 7590 armor. You also want to put enough AMS on to knock down any practical missile attack - you only need to hit with 14 to kill everything but a Kraken and give even those a +4 to-hit penalty, so I put 60 per side. (What? They're half a ton each.) Since they can fire as often as they need to, this can kill missile attacks for as long as you have heat and ammo, and it should be more than enough to kill Krakens even with bad dice luck. Also, toss in a couple screen launchers and a large comm-scanner suite, because why not?

On the offensive front, some things are just really efficient by weight. DropShip collars, for example - you can fit a DS of up to 100k tons onto a 1k ton collar. Max those out, so it's carrying fifty DropShips. Fighters are good, as long as you don't have so many that they can't clear the doors. I decided that eight turns to deploy was acceptable, and 30 of the ship's 33-door limit could be used for fighters, so that's 240 bays. And of course, the god of the WarShip weapons is the Clan ER Large Laser - Extreme range (which is similar to Capital-scale Medium), and absurd weight efficiency. The ship crams several hundred of those into each of the light-weapon arcs, to the point where it stops being efficient purely because of the fire-control weight (currently 23,332 tons per arc). Also, they're doing almost enough damage to one-shot battleships, so more stops being helpful for that reason too.

After that, the capital weapons should probably show up. I went with 8x NAC/35 and 12x HNPPC per corner arc - the NACs are weight-efficient (by capital standards), and the HNPPCs give the ship good long-range firepower just in case the fighters and DropShips can't handle an enemy capital ship solo. Avoided fire control weight on those, because that was better spent on more Clan ERLL. Also, there's enough heat sinks to fire everything.

Lastly, I threw in a naval C3(because clearly, what you really need a whole fleet of these working together), a mobile HPG, two shuttles to move crew in and out, enough fuel to engage in basic operations, a tiny cargo bay for basic provisions, almost enough lifeboats, and one single grav deck.

So, let us gaze into the abyss:

Class/Model/Name: Tillman IV-2
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $76,291,518,000.00
Magazine Cost: $168,000,000.00
BV2: 684,852

Mass: 2,500,000
K-F Drive System: Compact
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
32 Naval AC 35
48 Naval PPC Heavy
240 AMS (C)
2880 Laser Large ER (C)
8 Screen Launcher

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 450,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 6,250.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact (48 Integrity) 1,131,250.00
Jump Sail: (9 Integrity) 155.00
Structural Integrity: 150 375,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 24760(49520) Double 23,767.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 3125 points 1,275.00
Fire Control Computers: 93,288.00
Armor: 7590 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 7,500.00
Fore: 1250
Fore-Left/Right: 1310/1310
Aft-Left/Right: 1310/1310
Aft: 1100

Dropship Capacity: 50 50,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 0.00
Medium: 1 100.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 75 525.00
Life Boats: 75 525.00

Crew And Passengers:
190 Officers in 2nd Class Quarters 1,330.00
355 Crew in Steerage Quarters 1,775.00
590 Gunners and Others in Steerage Quarters 2,950.00
490 Bay Personnel 0.00
1st Class Passengers 0.00
2nd Class Passengers 0.00
Steerage Passengers 0.00

Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
8 Naval AC 35 FL 960 2800 (280-C) Medium-C 32,000.00
8 Naval AC 35 FR 960 2800 (280-C) Medium-C 32,000.00
8 Naval AC 35 AL 960 2800 (280-C) Medium-C 32,000.00
8 Naval AC 35 AR 960 2800 (280-C) Medium-C 32,000.00
12 Naval PPC Heavy FL 2700 1800 (180-C) Extreme-C 36,000.00
12 Naval PPC Heavy FR 2700 1800 (180-C) Extreme-C 36,000.00
12 Naval PPC Heavy AL 2700 1800 (180-C) Extreme-C 36,000.00
12 Naval PPC Heavy AR 2700 1800 (180-C) Extreme-C 36,000.00
60 AMS (C) Nose 60 180 (18-C) PDS 30.00
60 AMS (C) Aft 60 180 (18-C) PDS 30.00
60 AMS (C) LBS 60 180 (18-C) PDS 30.00
60 AMS (C) RBS 60 180 (18-C) PDS 30.00
720 Laser Large ER (C) Nose 8640 7200 (720-C) Extreme 2,880.00
720 Laser Large ER (C) Aft 8640 7200 (720-C) Extreme 2,880.00
720 Laser Large ER (C) LBS 8640 7200 (720-C) Extreme 2,880.00
720 Laser Large ER (C) RBS 8640 7200 (720-C) Extreme 2,880.00
2 Screen Launcher Nose 20 30 (3-C) Short 80.00
2 Screen Launcher Aft 20 30 (3-C) Short 80.00
2 Screen Launcher LBS 20 30 (3-C) Short 80.00
2 Screen Launcher RBS 20 30 (3-C) Short 80.00

Ammo Rounds Mass
Naval AC 35 Ammo 1600 1,600.00
AMS (C) Ammo 24000 1,000.00
Screen Launcher Ammo 80 800.00

Equipment Mass
Naval C3 25,000.00
NCSS Large 500.00
Mobile HPG 50.00
Bay Fighter 240 36,000.00
Bay Small Craft 2 400.00
Cargo, Standard 5000 5,000.00

[brittle berry]

I like the mission

a few things though

AMS: 60 AMS is 120 damage, which gives +12 to hit, which basically makes you impossible to hit. However, that's excessive. As I've tried to discuss earlier to try to find the optimal missile attack and defense, the limit to anti-missile is quantity of missiles. 60 AMS in a single bay is too much because it means 60 heat and ammo used up vs a single missile. As such, a volley of a mere 216 Antiship missiles (fired from a mere 36 Small Craft or 24 90 ton ASF) will overheat and quickly eat the ammo reserves of most anti-missile setups.

As such, smaller AMS bays are actually more effective. I prefer multiple 10 AMS bays since that rounds to a whole number and doesn't abuse the standard to capital conversion ratios.

For Small Craft Bays, you'll want more than 2 for logistics reasons. A 2.5Mt ships is simply too massive for a mere 2 to do the job. Similarly, the minimum cargo capacity is somewhere around 1% mass, so you'll want at least 25kt on this weight, preferably 2% so you have spares and extra supplies.

More importantly, you want offensive Small Craft Bays, not just ASF. The proper Small Craft have large ECM and Anti-ECM advantages, and have strategic range fuel use which allow for real long range carrier operations, as trying to launch ASF days away will devour all your fuel. You also need Tanker Small Craft to supply long range (for ASF) attacks.

Furthermore, there is a secret niche for 200t Dropships as well, because they provide Capital ECM and Large Craft Sensors, enhancing strategic detection and in battle improving the durability of both the ship and ASF. 200t Dropships also fit in Small Craft Bays because the bays work on all aero units up to 200t.

Quarters: You'll want quarters for all Bay Personnel to reduce Life Support supplies consumption

I see you figured out the Broadside/Nose/Front configuration for AMS/Standard Weapons on your own, which is best for a one ship fleet like this

Clan ERLL Spam is an interesting choice, and I suppose effective. I'm not a fan because of the massive energy difference between standard and Capital scale weapons that makes this setup more of a rules flaw joke rather than an in universe thing, but I accept your use of them regardless.

HNPPCs are of course king of the Capital Weapons, no argument against those there

50 Dropships are extremely expensive, but expected if you aren't going to confront the Warship KF Collar cost issue, so that's fine

Screen Launchers are good, though I think you need more

A target this big risks being swarmed by ASF, so you need enough Screen Launchers to delete entire squadrons at a time that get close

I suppose you could keep the point-defense screens in separate bays from other screen launchers with massive ammo capacity that are meant to just provide LoS cover every single turn

As for the NAC35s, I suppose it depends on what you're trying to do with them

NAC40s are more damage per ton, and paired NAC30s are longer range

NAC35 is only for getting the 70 damage bay, which is only useful in Superheavy slugging matches since very few units will have that much armor otherwise

Might I suggest as an alternative that you switch to 2xNAC30 + 2xLight Subcapital Cannon bays? You'll pay more fire control, but the lighter weapons should counteract that a bit, and you'll gain maximum level bracketing

[brittle berry]

If you're interested in a more serious take on this kind of thing, I made a thread here trying to discuss what a 'realistic' Fleet would look like with giant ships like this:

#1477768575929417889

It's not just about the Superheavy ships, but also what that kind of value concentration would imply and how fleet composition and organization would change to handle them

Mainly it becomes like a modern Carrier Strike Group where every ship is an escort for the Supercarrier and Logistics ship, which sit in the middle of the defensive onion

Similarly, one major threat I found for these superships is ASF bombing

ASF bombing bypasses AMS, so the only way to avoid it reliably as a large ship like this is to crank up the speed to 4/6 or higher, since target ship speed provides a massive accuracy penalty

Both for bombing and missiles, the absurdity of superships means you have to assume everything fired at you has a shipwreck nuclear warhead, so that kind of very specific attack becomes a massive threat

[civic gale]

to be clear, this was built in a Google Sheets file that didn't ask me to break the weapons up into bays, which explains some of the stacking choices - i wouldn't make all the AMS a single bay for actual use, that's just how it displays by default

interesting note about small craft/200t dropships, that's some good munchkin thinking right there

quarters you may be right, but i'd want to know how much it would eat into the strategic range here

the CERLL thing is shameless rule abuse, obviously, and a real sign of why the aero rules need a ton of work

screen launchers were a point made on that initial thread, and tbh i do think that was the biggest mistake in my design overall, more of those would be good (even if it cuts into the CERLLs)

NAC35 were for bay-maxing, yes, because the efficiency gain of NAC40s is pretty small but bay size loss is high - your idea of 2x NAC30+2x LSCC is an interesting one, but i figured fire control mass was better spent on CERLL than on tweaking capital bays

i will definitely check out that thread

my idea was to deal with ASFs using your billions of screening units, backed up by all the CERLLs, but it's possible that isn't enough by itself and you need more

[brittle berry]

When trying to design a similar pure gun BB, I actually ran into the unique situation of Naval Gauss being useful

Because at this insane tonnage and with Naval C3 Fire Control penalty, Medium Naval Gauss is actually useful mixed with the usual HNPPC spam

Although this design specifically is a broadside monster due to the specific role

I dont disagree with the CERLL spam on principle. In universe, I can accept that it is a lance that penetrates 70 damage deep. It's just that standard weapons are nowhere near as wide as Capital weapons.

A CERLL has a 1 meter damage radius, including AoE.
A Light Subcapital Laser has 30 meter direct damage radius, with the AoE going hundreds of meters from that main blast.

As for dealing with ASF, again because of nuke spam the only solution is really counter-ASF, along with dedicated AMS spam escorts

Otherwise a few squadrons start dumping hundreds of missiles into you in volleys, and once your AMS capacity is exceeded you're relying on luck that a shipwreck nuke doesn't hit

I can see how you went for closer range spam rather than longer range, in canon close range is the norm, but as I turned the design into something meant to operate 'realistically' the reality of trying to escort it effectively means you need to use every milimeter of extra space otherwise the attacking Anti Ship Missiles are too close for comfort

AShMs have Capital Long Range, so you need Extreme range to fire with impunity, although thanks to the escorts and particularly the 200t Dropships providing extra Capital ECM, massive hit penalties mean the enemy will want to at least close to Medium Range before firing

That's also where the Screen Launchers come in

I was theorycrafting ASF vs a basic anti-fighter Warship, and the ASF are extremely powerful even with only their equipped weapons

The key is to have an arsenal of Screen Launchers that delete anything that gets in close range

the AE effect can delete squadrons at a time, and blocking off Short Range forces the ASF to fire at Medium Range to survive, which makes their damage plummet

The scenario also brought up the issue of ASF sitting on the same hex as the Warship, but while that's easily resolved it requires an escort to fire their Screen Launchers at you