Needlessly fast warships

[bleak fossil]

How many small craft do you have for them

[strange zealot]

4

[bleak fossil]

How many can you fit in a small craft

[strange zealot]

The nl42 can fit 8

[bleak fossil]

Ok so 32

[strange zealot]

Do ineed to spend tonnage on bays

[bleak fossil]

Yep

[strange zealot]

Fir battle armor

[bleak fossil]

Might have to go down to 3 SC

And 24 ba marines

[strange zealot]

6 bays for ba are 24 troops right

[bleak fossil]

I don’t know if there are rules for thrust exceeding the SI of stuff you’re carrying

[strange zealot]

There are not

[bleak fossil]

Guess lifeboats etc would be sol

[strange zealot]

Behemoths however would absolutely shattered in universe if you tried to attach it to this

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Behemoth_(DropShip_class)

[bleak fossil]

Nah it’s fine. SI 30

[strange zealot]

It has a weak spine

[bleak fossil]

Just not built for atmosphere

[strange zealot]

It causes cracks in the structure to use its max thrust for sustained periods

It's a flaw unique to the behemoth

[bleak fossil]

Right. Its max thrust.

[strange zealot]

Which is 1.5gs....

This ship generates 4 with ease

[bleak fossil]

Yes

But the engine vibrations are coming from somewhere else and damped by the collar. So it’s probably fine.

[strange zealot]

Nah it would shatter in a single turn

[bleak fossil]

And technically spending more thrust than you have SI is a control roll

So it’s probably fine

Cause you’re not spending it, you’re along for the ride

[strange zealot]

That actually makes it worse tbh

[bleak fossil]

lol I know

But SI 30

[strange zealot]

Roll 1d6 internal damage every max thrust turn

Lmao

I wish i could fit all 4 small craft

You sure i need bays for BA marines?

It still has the original amount of lifeboats

The crew are screwed in an emergency

[bleak fossil]

Yes you need bays for BA if you’re carrying BA

Cause it’s also their technical staff and maintenance and repair equipment

[strange zealot]

Still not sure losing the ability to deploy a squadron each is worth the battle armor bays or if it's actually possible for battle armor marines to ride this thing without blacking out

Maybe normal marines are better here?

Idk

I do like the fact that it's possible to generate more thrust in a single hex than even the fastest boarding craft can slow down from

Thst glfeels dangerously based

[bleak fossil]

Well most ships you do want something, although considering this ship is faster than the NL 42 it’s going to be hard to board unless it’s crippled

[strange zealot]

Then again 6 fighters isn't really gonna help and if it is...

Slap on a fighter carrier

You csn launch still attached right?

[bleak fossil]

Think so

[strange zealot]

That should open up some options if so

[bleak fossil]

Same logic applies to marines too

[strange zealot]

I mean im still spending tonnage on their bays

If i want marines i have to cut the fighters, full stop

I can at most fit 2 + 2

Which is hardly better than 3

I could also cut the collar

Which would give me room for both and about 400 tons of cargo

[bleak fossil]

Eeeeuugh

[strange zealot]

And honestly

There are only 3 dropships capable of keeping up

I can outrun literally everything

[bleak fossil]

Definitely spend some quality time with the supply rules and see how far you can make that stretch

My gut feeling is not that far

[strange zealot]

Can i preload space mines into the screen bays?

[bleak fossil]

Gotta pay for the tonnage

[strange zealot]

Huh

How do mines work?

[bleak fossil]

Might be on the order of “if the supply run is three days late the ship will run out of life support”

[strange zealot]

Life support functions for weeks maybe years

It's food

[bleak fossil]

There’s separate calcs for life support and food IIRC

[strange zealot]

How do i add space mines

[bleak fossil]

But I may have a skewed sense of how much you need because when I design a WS, I design it to take the Exodus Road.

[strange zealot]

100 tons will last at most a month, maybe 3 if none of it is ammo

[bleak fossil]

Protip: if you’re going to be deployed for a year+, bay life support systems are so inefficient you’re better off assigning quarters for all your bay personnel including techs

[strange zealot]

How do i space mines?

I found the dispenser in the other category

Is it true you can load mines into screen launchers?

[bleak fossil]

Think so

[strange zealot]

Like is it just an alt ammo?

[bleak fossil]

Might need to uncheck a box to show all ammunition

[strange zealot]

Either way there isn't physically a way to fit a full reload

It has no long term endurance even as a combat vessel

No tonnage for even a single spare part

[bleak fossil]

But it goes fast

[strange zealot]

Much less replacement capital weapons or armor

Are mines actually good?

[bleak fossil]

Yeah that’s why losing the collar is so sketchy

[strange zealot]

Because i can add a pair of dispensers

[bleak fossil]

You already have screen launchers

[strange zealot]

I have 12 of them

Can you actually damage fighters with these

[bleak fossil]

I’m not sure how well you can tactically apply a small quantity of naval mines in on the board combat. But I’m pretty sure you can use them in combination with the screens to be incredibly annoying.

[strange zealot]

These operate in pairs like all good warships do

I have 24 screens per pair

It's beautiful tbh

I feel like need more and idk why

Why do i need more than 12 screen launchers?

[strange zealot]

I feel like you really ought to put the mines on a dropship or a fighter

If you can't launch from screens thst is

[bleak fossil]

Launch a line of screens, then a line of mines

[strange zealot]

Anything to give being an obnoxious pos more reach

Plus getting boarded really sucks

You lose half your crew if you don't have marines

[sharp zenith]

Screen Launchers can fire mines

[strange zealot]

Do i need to load an alt ammo type

[sharp zenith]

Yeah

[strange zealot]

Can i have both losded inti the same gun

[strange zealot]

Do you appreciate the high art that is this abomination?

It can launch 24 marines into you

No idea why it has twice the bv of a zechetinu

If only i could make it 9/14 😔

But alas dropships can reach 13/20 without being useless so i will never be able to outrun everything

That is absolutely insane for something that can enter an atmosphere

[sharp zenith]

This one can't enter atmo, but yes

[strange zealot]

Atmospheric flight instability means it can

You want the unstreamlined quirk

[sharp zenith]

oh yeah my bad

[strange zealot]

The castrum feels sexier tbh

[sharp zenith]

Castrum is underarmed and underdefended

Though it has the same armor

This one has a much more focused armament

[strange zealot]

Ok but it has aura

Not everything in the setting should have to go through 36 ams if it wants to kill something in space

[sharp zenith]

Everyone who doesn't want to get nuked should have at least a dozen AMS

Preferably 233

Per facing

[strange zealot]

If you aren't using nules the castrum has more alpha and similar effective range

And better campaign endurance/resupply

[sharp zenith]

wdym more alpha

how

[strange zealot]

It has several 14 damage bays and a 20 damage bay plus the ar10s

[sharp zenith]

This one has all the bays front focused
With only quad SCL/1 for all around AAA

[strange zealot]

Your damage is concentrated into a single 68 damage missile bay

[sharp zenith]

it has a NAC56 and SCL/12 bay on the front

As well as the missiles

[strange zealot]

Nose focused damage is fine until you get your cic crit out

I guess yours does have a higher alpha

Still 17 killer whales in a single bay is insane

[sharp zenith]

I guess not if you count the standard scale weapons
I generally don't because they're stupid

Should be closer to 100 or 1000 to 1 than 10 to 1

[strange zealot]

They're actually solid in late game and can kerp your main guns from getting crit

[sharp zenith]

If you acnowledge standard scale, may as well grab a few thousand large lasers

[sharp zenith]

No, I mean the BT rules for standard scale weapons on warships are dumb

The scaling is wrong

[strange zealot]

And they work against fighters and weigh basically nothing

[strange zealot]

They do raw damage it works just fine

[sharp zenith]

An SCL/1 has something like 100x to thousands of times the power output of an ERLL

[sharp zenith]

That's the problem

They shouldn't

[strange zealot]

Yes and it has twice the range

[sharp zenith]

I'm not talking about range, I'm talking about damage on target

[strange zealot]

It takes clantech to make something truly busted

[sharp zenith]

standard scale weapons have a 1 meter radius

SCL/1 has a 30 meter circumference of full damage

Literally hundreds or thousands of times more powerful

[strange zealot]

You try making a laser melt off a full ton of aerospace armor at 738km

Or 270km

Much less capital armor

[sharp zenith]

An ERLL will bore a hole into an ASF

An SCL/1 will turn the entire front of an ASF into slag

[strange zealot]

Yeah capital weapons should probably do more to fighters tbh

[sharp zenith]

and standard should do almost nothing to warships/dropships

[strange zealot]

Only on an individual basis

5 ppcs hits as hard as a naval 45 at like 20% of the range

[sharp zenith]

Only if you accept the broken scaling

Again, an SCL/1 has 200x the power output on target of an ERLL

Yet they're given the same capital damage

It's stupid

[strange zealot]

Range is still a factor tbh

[sharp zenith]

Range has absolutely nothing to do with it

[strange zealot]

Mech scale weapons hit on 12s when capital scale weapons hit at 6s or 8s

[sharp zenith]

Type: Military Spheroid
Mass: 4,800 tons
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 4,800
Battle Value: 47,270
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 1,173,247,600 C-bills

Fuel: 300 tons (9,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Heat Sinks: 840 (1680)
Structural Integrity: 36

Armor
    Nose: 822
    Sides: 810/810
    Aft: 810

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (200.0 tons)      1 Door    
    Bay 2:  Cargo (121.0 tons)      1 Door    

Ammunition:
    12,000 rounds of Machine Gun [Full] ammunition (60 tons)

Escape Pods: 7
Life Boats: 7
Crew:  8 officers, 34 gunners

Notes: Mounts 129.5 tons of ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                  Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                            Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (1,680 Heat)
70 ER Large Laser                     840  70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)Laser       
70 ER Large Laser                     840  70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)Laser       
RS/LS Fwd (0 Heat)
12 Machine Gun                         0   0(24)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo [Full] (2400 shots)
RS/LS Aft (0 Heat)
12 Machine Gun                         0   0(24)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo [Full] (2400 shots)
Aft (0 Heat)
12 Machine Gun                         0   0(24)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo [Full] (2400 shots)

Features the following design quirks: Internal Bomb Bay```

Behold the ultimate warship

According to the rules as written

[strange zealot]

Cerll is broken as hell and is the single most damage efficient weapon available

[strange zealot]

How's the penalty for going over the limit looking

Also you take a 70 damage penalty to morale for being boring

You need to realize that warships are at least 20% vibes by design

Bad designs and cool designs are both vibes

Metanator 3000 has 70 damage bays on every single facing and can kill every cannon warship at once is less so

[sharp zenith]

Now I'm wondering if a 2.5 Megaton ship actually could mount enough lasers to literally destroy every canon warship at once

Assuming they're all together surrounding it

There's only a few thousand warships in canon

Sound like a job for medium laser batteries

[strange zealot]

You only need enough autocannons to crit the leviathan

Everything else needs one nuke per

And you need a god tier roll

But you can easily fit 212 nuke bays in a ship

[sharp zenith]

A few thousand T-Bolt 5s
Nuclear tipped

[strange zealot]

Citation: i fit 909 barracuda missile launchers in one warship

Per side

[bleak fossil]

How are you getting this number?

[sharp zenith]

Standard scale weapons have a damage diameter of about a meter

All capital scale weapons are AE

Which means they do their full damage in a 30 meter hex

And partial damage from there

So I'm actually being very generous to the ERLL

[bleak fossil]

Or the impact of the weapon sends chunks flying and that’s what’s dealing the damage.

[strange zealot]

A single nac 40 does more damage than any artillery in the game even cruise missiles

[sharp zenith]

Area of a circle of 1 radius is about 3.1459... so Pi
Area of a circle of 30 radius is about 2872
So about 900x

[sharp zenith]

No
decreasing damage isn't until the next hexes over

target hex just gets vaporized for full damage

[strange zealot]

Capital scale damage is actually spread across 7 hexes

I rest my case

And that single shot weighs less than the cerll

You can kill an entire regiment with a couple salvos

Try doing that with your 70 cerll boring bay

[bleak fossil]

Also it’s not as good as you think it is because EX is +8. I don’t believe you can bracket with standard scale weapons.

In the meantime, the SCL 3 is at capital medium and +2 at essentially the same range. -1 in anti fighter IIRC.

[strange zealot]

Naval laser 45 does damage in 7 hexes too

Not much on its own mind you

Nothing like nacs

The aoe effect for subcaps being used in the air on dropships is just an abstraction

[bleak fossil]

And in using cerll for the next to useless EX range bracket you ignore the former god of AA before the SCL/3, the CL Pulse

[strange zealot]

God i love clpl

I hate that i can't use them without feeling like im cheating unless im fighting clanners but the enyo is peak

And on fighters it's downright filthy

It crits almost everything and never misses

Even is lpl is solid for the same reasons and that has to contend with medium range

It can be outranged by lrms and ac2s and gauss, unlike the clan version

[bleak fossil]

Also aren’t you taking like 70% weight penalties in every bay?

[strange zealot]

You can eat them but yes they don't have any capital weapons as a result of having 70 cerll

the damage potential of the nac30 is theoretically infinite

[bleak fossil]

Yes, and because they’re not split into smaller bays they’re going to utterly murder a single fighter a round

[strange zealot]

with a high velocity strike and maxed out unit stacking you can easily do a hundred thousand damage in a single shot

And if you were to say... Strike a civilian skyscraper...

Or a city block

[bleak fossil]

Like your standard NAC carrier is going to kick out 4-6 48-56 point capital scale hits at +3 at long capital using bracket 1

[strange zealot]

The aegis will laugh before slinging out half a dozen 70 point hits

Its beautiful tbh

Still can't handle fighters but fighters without nukes are useless in the sldf era

I mean fighters can kill dropships and the like so they aren't useless but still 2 capital damage a turn if you try hard is just ... Blegh

Takes forever to kill them too

[bleak fossil]

The other problem with laser boat custom WS/pws designs is it brings out the reflective armor fighters, so you need a ballistic secondary battery. I don’t see a single HAG on that clan design, it breaks my heart.

[strange zealot]

Im not entirely sure a fighter should be able to dodge a weapon that is at minimum moving 15m/s

[strange zealot]

I would like to remind those fighters that the einsturm exists and i have a custom fighter with an ltc and 7/11 thrust

[bleak fossil]

Do LTCs actually work in space?

[strange zealot]

Yes but they have short range

All earthbound artillery has short range

[bleak fossil]

Space hexes are gargantuan

[strange zealot]

It should probably be medium range tbh

[bleak fossil]

I don’t see how you get the aoe effect

[strange zealot]

At least that would bring parity with AAA ranges

[strange zealot]

You don't but that doesn't matter it still does double damage to reflective

[bleak fossil]

Hmm. Might have to tweak a few of my old designs.

[strange zealot]

Unless im misremembering and arty doesn't do any damage in space

I do remember cruise missiles not working at all

[bleak fossil]

I feel like it doesn’t work but I haven’t checked.

[strange zealot]

Whivh is just... Disappointing

[bleak fossil]

In any case the HAG 40 is a superb weapon for DS with long range and high damage per weapon slot.

[strange zealot]

You work so hard to get into short range and waste 90 ton missiles only for it to do 0 damage instead of 150

Same with arrow iv

St least i think

Maybe standard ammo works fine

[strange zealot]

They work

[bleak fossil]

And let’s be real here- you have to present a credible reason for your opponent to have AMS bays , otherwise they won’t use them, so you should have some LRMs, ATMs, or subcap missiles.

[strange zealot]

They use them as autocannons

[strange zealot]

I don't allow nukes so i don't need ams

[bleak fossil]

No you want AMS so some white shark doesn’t take out something important on your ship with a good roll.

[strange zealot]

"Aerospace units employing Artillery Cannons against other aerospace units use them as autocannons, and cannot deliver damage effects into adjacent hexes. However, the damage type is still considered AE."

[bleak fossil]

Or if they’re bringing em make em bring a battery of 5 to get through your ams screen and really pay for it

And only get like 2 damage out of it

[strange zealot]

You don't get the full aoe effect but you still deal damage in clusters of 5

[bleak fossil]

And double damage vs reflective armor.

[strange zealot]

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Transit

[bleak fossil]

Only go out to short though.

[strange zealot]

That doesn't matter it's an ac20

[bleak fossil]

Right but fighters move last in space, they control range very well.

[strange zealot]

Only a fighter should carry ltc and ac20s anyways

[bleak fossil]

If they went out to med they’d be a great counter to hordes of reflective.

Bay of 4 would be 16 cap damage, think that’s probably a 6+ to wreck a fighter.

[strange zealot]

Lbx20 i think has medium and only requires 5 to match the same damage

Ltc make more sense on dropships

[bleak fossil]

LBX doesn’t get the damage that wrecks reflective.

If it went out to med it would be worth it.

[strange zealot]

It's 16 capital damage lol

[bleak fossil]

5 is 6. 1.2 cap damage per ac.

4 ltc will be 2 x 4 cannon x2 against reflective for 16.

[strange zealot]

Eh apparently 8 lb20 is only 104

[bleak fossil]

Yeah it’s not 20 it’s assuming clusters and you get the average hit. Why Uac/20 is 30

[strange zealot]

But 5uac20 also goes to medium and hits for 150

[bleak fossil]

You do get the -1 though

Why I like HAGs. It’s worth it to go to long and you get similar damage per weapon.

But standard EX you can’t hit anything unless your crews have unbelievable skill.

Maybe on like a 12 if you’re chasing someone.

Basically it’s like getting 2 ish Gauss rifles but only paying for 1 weapon.

Like if you’re going to boat ams and have tons of anti fighter weapons minimizing weight penalties becomes big.

[strange zealot]

Beautiful

Oh god

It actually works better than i could have dreamed of

Literally impossible for them to shoot the ship im not aiming at

And the cudas cut through the penalties

@sharp zenith how do bearings only launches work?

[sharp zenith]

You tell it where to go and it aims itself

Fire and forget

[strange zealot]

So if i call a hex i can't see the next turn?

Or i accidentally fire one more missile before they hit?

[strange zealot]

Do i have to guess the exact hex?

[sharp zenith]

That's exactly what it's for

[strange zealot]

Im guessing you can't actually extend the range of the missile either

So the total distance traveled has to be 50 hexes

God this is cursed

Why are they dealing zero damage

[strange zealot]

I have gotten them to hit several times but they never actually deal damage

What's with that?

[sharp zenith]

Sounds like a bug
Report it

[strange zealot]

This feels like bugged behavior

On the plus side 12 smoke screens is probably worth 30k bv

12 screen launchers is actually the secret meta

Completely shut down hundreds of warships with a dinky little screen

Screen launchers can also force an escape route open

[carmine orbit]

i feel like they werent even thought through cause screen launchers are cheap and magically kill the enemy force

[strange zealot]

They don't kill jack crap

15 damage is basically nothing

Sure it's Aoe but like

It's so expensive for that

[carmine orbit]

each launch dose 15 damage from its readout so like just spamming them would do stuff since only 160 bv unless are they one shot

[strange zealot]

They're 10 tons per shot

They're good value but not game breaking or better than AA

[carmine orbit]

do they have ammo or just one shots

is it captial or noncaptial damage

[strange zealot]

It's explicitly called out as being as much damage as a gauss slug

The ammo can either be mines or screens

[carmine orbit]

ah ok so just funny AA

[strange zealot]

I mean it is aoe but yes