CHANGE BACK THE CRITIQUE CHANNEL

[olive prawn]

YESS PLS I AM BACKING THIS UP

I witnessed many times on other servers where changing it to threads just kinda made giving critique die

[obtuse flame]

I SUPPORT THIS

[obtuse flame]

I went to comment on someone’s art in the critique channel, and I realized that it can pontentially steer away other critiques who may think that it’s already been critiqued- I think there’s a lot of valid reasons out there on why the critique channel should just stay the way it used to be

[void marsh]

YES PLS PLS PLS PLS NO ONE IS EVEN HELPING IN THE THREADS

[slender warren]

THIS PLEASE

I AINT GETTING NO HELP IN THE NEW ONE ARGAHRGAHGR

[void marsh]

AND THE ONES THAT R IS CUZ THE THREAD WAS MADE LIKE OVER AN HOUR AGO BUT ITS ANNOYING HAVING TO WAIT A WHILE TO GET CRITIQUES IF U WANNA KEEP WORKING ON THE ART

[slender warren]

REAL

#IHATETHREADS

[grave aspen]

BRING BACK REGULAR CRITIQUE NOWWWWW!!!!!

[slender warren]

REAL

[zenith thunder]

YES

[supple grove]

upvoting, critique channel was much more easier to access

WHY DID YALL REMOVE IT

[slender warren]

REALLL

[grave aspen]

BRING BACK CRITIQUE CHANNEL BRING BACK CRITIQUE CHANNEL

NEOWWWW!!!!!

[jade kraken]

they removed it because its easier for them to manage, people can scroll and give critique as they choose

(ive seen what the mass can do)

[olive prawn]

We know that

I already said we know it’s easier for the mods to have threads but it’s also easier for us to have a text channel

[jade kraken]

im confused as to how the text channel would be easier since having a whole thread would group up the conversation, could you explain more pls /gen

[olive prawn]

I Said that in general already but a compromise may be having both this way the text channel may be less busy and easier to manage but if that would actually work is unsure

[olive prawn]

Multiple reasons people have already stated some here

Less people will give feedback is one of the biggest issues

Critique would slowly die

It’s harder to go through and people might not open threads with a lot of messages thinking they already got critiqued even though that’s not the case

[jade kraken]

oh i see what you mean, i was interpreting the bunches of messages as critique messages and not off-topic messages

[olive prawn]

As someone who was in servers with critique threads and on others with critique channels from my experience text channels are a thousand times better

[naive nest]

This. From what I can tell NO ONE is getting responses to their critique requests.

And on top of it, discord threads lag half the time and break my app completely. And they're a pain in the ass to go through, back out of, go back into.

In my opinion, I think stricter rules needed to be set in that channel. Higher slow mode due to its high activity, being a certain level to be able to post in it, etc.

And honestly now I have no actual interest in using that channel. I understand it for selling, that makes sense. But with the critique channel? No.

[naive nest]

It’s what a large server I’m in had to do, and it solved just about every single problem they were having.

It doesn’t matter if the slow mode is annoying, it just keeps the place from getting off topic so easily and keeping everyone from clogging the channel at a fast rate.

The level obviously wouldn’t be very high, just enough to prevent random trolls

[boreal shore]

please, i hate threads 😭😭

[ivory yacht]

Yes the threads are HORRIBLE! The format as a whole is extremely uncomfortable for me since I’m neurodivergent

[naive nest]

I. Agree.

I have comprehension issues enough as is 😭

[olive prawn]

IKR ABD THE CRITIQUE PING THING WE NEED INSTANT REPLYS FFS

[willow canyon]

BRING IT BACK!!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

THREADS SUCK ASS FR

[grave aspen]

Guys I’m literally autistic I can’t take this no more

[peak geyser]

If you all could behave, so that we dont have to argue abt yall going off topic, going against 1 person repeatedly etc .
Then critique wouldnt have been changed to threads in the first place

[peak geyser]

Because people used it as their personal talk chat and got off topic, argued with mods abt it etc etc

[peak geyser]

A higher slow mode will kill critique too, but also stricter rules would mean every 5th member in critique would get a direct warn or timeout, which also kills it

Though the threads are annoying but its easier to manage.
And some are getting help

[willow canyon]

i mean you could make critique available from a certain level if that makes sense

[split pasture]

I have received amazing advice because of the critique channel lots of times, I personally don't think the issue was so bad that critique channel would need to be deleted
Most "regular" ppl who give critique are great imo

It's the trolls, newbies and etc. who cause the most major problems I think

[hollow plank]

its not deleted, it’s reworked. you can still ask for critique in #1136820915183833099, the only difference is that people will only talk when they actually have critique to share.

[split pasture]

Well I myself can't properly use it bc I'm on the spectrum and I have a lot of trouble with the thread format D:

I guess if it helps others then okay

[ivory yacht]

exactly! the threads arent made with neurodivergent ppl in mind

[ivory yacht]

for me its not a matter of "I don’t like ho it looks aaaa" but its literally difficult to comprehend, so there IS a difference

[hollow plank]

what do you find difficult about it? you can create a post by clicking on the new post button and comment to existing ones by opening them and typing into the comment section

like you do in this suggestion channel

[ivory yacht]

Im sorry if this sounds rude, but I dont think youd understand even if I explained everything, since theres a huge difference in perception between neurotypical ppl and those on the spectrum

Idm the suggestions since barely nobody actively uses them

critique is supposed to be used everyday by every kind of artist, yk, pretty popular…

[mossy fern]

people when change;

https://tenor.com/view/baby-cute-crying-cry-gif-17481165

It’s literally easier to see the art and leave comments

And not have overlap and 100 people arguing at once

And if you wanted the old critique, you should’ve composed yourself better in the old. That shit was a mess

[ivory yacht]

so just because of trolls and other isolated cases, everybody else has to be uncomfortable? ok, got it

I behaved, many other people behaved

[hollow plank]

you still have #✘-art-discussion and #✘-general-chat to have conversations in and #1136820915183833099 works as intended

[ivory yacht]

whtvr you say, ik if I argue here Im gonna get warned at the very least

[hollow plank]

if you don’t have anything useful to say about the artwork posted, don’t say anything. sadly the text format left way too much space for casual conversations resulting in people getting their posts flooded in literal seconds

[mossy fern]

Yes

It’s a better format idk what to tell ya lol

Same stuff happened when the marketplace channels changed but no one minds now

[olive prawn]

Yet the majority of the members prefer the text channel ? So maybe that says something about it not beim the better format for critique it works well with selling or suggesting but not with critique people are already telling you that they are getting less to none critique there compared to the text channel

Just take the critique from the members who use it into account

[hollow plank]

they weren’t getting any more feedback in the old channel either, most of the activity was spam and casual conversations.

[mossy fern]

Nah

[olive prawn]

People are literally saying they did tho?????

[mossy fern]

People jsut don’t like change

[ivory yacht]

mods and the owner barely even use the channel, yet they somehow think this is better

[mossy fern]

I’ll give it a couple months and we’ll see

[olive prawn]

Fr

[mossy fern]

This servers been up for 5 years. I’ve seen every kind of reaction to every change lol

[ivory yacht]

ofc you won’t mind if you won’t ever even go into that channel

[mossy fern]

This is normal

I’ve built this server from 0. I know every change and reactions and eventual uses for every channel and bot and whatnot. I’m very comfortable with waiting and seeing how it’s used for a few months and I expect a much better experience, no matter what y’all say. If it’s as bad as y’all say it will be, I’ll go back

[naive nest]

If this is seriously your reaction as an owner of a server to criticism and complaints, as well as people like myself that have a hard time using the threads simply because .. our brains aren’t built like yours? Then there is seriously a problem.

Just because your server is 5 years old and you’ve built it from the ground up does not mean that everyone except you is wrong. I’ve seen servers younger than yours that have gone through the changes we’re suggesting and are no longer heavy with trolls, stupidity, off-topic conversation, etc. it’s a matter of how you decide to handle your server. And if you choose to push this off, that’s on you.

But, again, if that is your genuine reaction to this, there is a problem.

[mossy fern]

That was my last super reaction 🤦‍♂️

It is on me, thank you

Once again, I’ll revert it if it doesn’t work, but tbh, it already seems better. No more having to deal with trolls and people opening tickets about rude critiques so far

[ivory yacht]

I mean, most posts there have been sitting for hours with no response, is it better?

[mossy fern]

Yes lmao

No trolls, no one complaining people are rude, and no one dropping meaningless feedback

[ivory yacht]

How so? Ppl used to get immediate help and advice yk

[willow canyon]

even if it "seems" better, you can barely find anything and almost nobody criticises anything. lets just say you ruined the server with this "change"!!!

[mossy fern]

It’s evident most of y’all don’t have experience getting and giving critique beyond discord

[olive prawn]

It’s only for the mods better not people actually using the channel of course is a dead chat not gonna make any problems for you guys

[ivory yacht]

maybe if you actually paid attention to the community you’d see that it is much worse

[mossy fern]

it wasn’t active, It was overflowing with random BS. Y’all are always welcomed to find another server, or you can wait it out and let us test the threads. Thanks

[ivory yacht]

It was very active and useful tho! That’s exactly why I loved interacting there

[mossy fern]

It was a cesspool with a okay amount of half decent critique. It’s not a standard I’m fine with lol

[willow canyon]

dude its really hard to adjust to the changes all of a sudden, theres no crit ping so its almost impossible to find anything. the threads are annoying as hell

on the old critique channel people were genuinely active and were giving HELPFUL advice!!!! yeah there were fights but this server has staff right?? honestly that shouldnt be a problem for such a big server

[mossy fern]

That doesn’t make sense

Bigger server = harder to moderate

[naive nest]

That's what I agree with the most. If you have THIS many mods, and I haven't seen half of them even active .. you need to do a better job at moderating your server.

What happens in your server is your responsibility to take care of. And if you're standing by and going, "Oh, all of this is fine. I'm the owner and I know what's best even though tons of people are disagreeing with me!" Then we, still, have a problem.

If you can't moderate your server properly with the right influx of mods who can be active when others aren't, then you shouldn't be running a server this big. Because the drama that slips through is up to you to handle and stop, and if you're not actively getting better moderation (or training your mods and giving them rules about how active they need to be.) Then your server is susceptible to carrying drama that will be plastered onto your servers name permanently. And, trust me, you don't want that.

[mossy fern]

Not other way around lol

This is moderating

I’m moderating the critique channel by changing it

[naive nest]

You're not stopping drama, you're causing more of it actively right now.

[mossy fern]

I don’t think you guys have any clue or experience or understanding of how much stuff goes on in a sever this large

Nah, y’all are causing it lol. We’re not talking in my thread

[mossy fern]

You talk like you have experience running a sever this big? Do you /gen

[naive nest]

I've moderated in servers, owned a few, etc. And I've also watched the most popular of servers turn into an actual shitshow bc of bad moderation.

[mossy fern]

Alright

Once again, I’ve expressed my thoughts

Feel free to reread my pinned message about whag@will happen

[naive nest]

All that I really ask is that you're more open to what other people are saying and not pushing some people off as 'just trying to start drama'. If that is what you think is happening.

Because genuinely, seeing an owner of a server react to someone who's nuerodivergent and struggling with the.. honestly terrible organization and UI of threads in general, with a meme..? That's not good and honestly makes me feel borderline unsafe in this server.

[mossy fern]

This entire group of people here is just the same that we’re often found in the drama of the critique channels. It’s hard to label y’all anything else, even if that’s not your intention

[naive nest]

I personally haven't been involved in any drama that I'm aware of, besides having to report it.

[mossy fern]

If the sever isn’t right for you, once again, you’re welcomed to find another

[olive prawn]

You are the one that just keeps dismissing criticism

[naive nest]

I personally love this server to death and enjoy being in it, and I would hate to see such a large server crumble because of things that can be handled more accordingly. That's my purpose of what I'm saying.

[mossy fern]

It’s not crumbling lmao

[naive nest]

I'm not here to 'cause drama' or whatever you're going to label what I'm saying as, I'm genuinely concerned.

I never said it was.

[mossy fern]

We’ve been through much sillier and bigger thing tbh

To@help organize this, I’ll send a form to garner feedback and figure out what you all think would work better. Matter of the fact tho is that the previous system was majorly flawed, and if you can’t see that, tbh, I’m not interested in what you’ve got to say

[naive nest]

My point is that I agree that the previous system is flawed, that's why it just needs different changes. Not side-stepping the source of the problem entirely.

But I appreciate you at least doing something now. I just hope that you take everything into account that I've said. Whether you yourself agree with it or not.

[mossy fern]

It’s not sidestepping. Changes like this are pretty mild

Side stepping would be deleting the critique channel

[peak geyser]

Doesnt bring much

[peak geyser]

Ofc trolls but there are some regulars who caused trouble alot too

[split pasture]

Yeah that is true, ngl if there are regulars who disrupt the critique sm they shouldn't be regulars anymore

[peak geyser]

Im sorryto say this but ur suggestions would only keep trolls away but its the regular members who use critique as their personal chat

[mossy fern]

How come

[peak geyser]

Ive seen a grouo going against 1 person repeatedly how is this good? Take your time to adjust

[mossy fern]

Does that bother you in the marketplace channels as wel

[peak geyser]

Yup i saw a group of members going against one person, always the same group who goes off topic etc

Tbh i have an attention span issue and the threads actually help me oversee everything

[hollow plank]

but this is the thing, you dont have to open them, they are not conversations. if you see something about the artwork posted you're only gonna open it if you really have something to say about the art.

[willow canyon]

dude the thread thing did not change anything, people wont just stop arguing because you changed the overlay. this lroblem is really the staffs fault (at least partly) since they were not able to keep the people from shutting up!!! this server has a lot of staff and its really weird that only like 3 people actually did something

[mossy fern]

Having staff come in to intervene all the time is a terrible solution

[willow canyon]

well everytime somebody came in and said something it seemed to calm down even if its not very good it worked so really i dont see the problem with that

[hollow plank]

yall can make a weekly donation of 10 bucks to each staff member if you want 24/7 monitoring on the text based critique channel but we have lives and full time jobs

[mossy fern]

Critique is gonna stay as threads till we can find a better solution cause we’re not going back to what was there before

[split pasture]

(I'll pop in to add my 5 cents, the format does change stuff! Sure maybe if it is updated properly with tags and shit it'll be a little bit easier, but the format itself is hard for most* neurodivergent ppl)

[mossy fern]

It doesn’t address the root of issue

[willow canyon]

i know, it worded it weirdly. im struggling with it as well

[alpine sapphire]

Y’all are really still wilding about this…? Don’t you think it’s a tad asinine to continue this rant…? When Apple has said multiple times that they’re gonna do it the way they want to do it…?

[split pasture]

I don't rlly see any wild hysteria here ngl

[peak geyser]

Do you know how much i fought for ppl to stay on topic? How i had to oversee a group bullying someone? (They got in trouble)
Its now easier to read up on when something bad happens

[naive nest]

Is that not the entire point of having staff?

[alpine sapphire]

You guys are acting like you can’t get criticism anymore though…and if you have a legit issue with the formatting because of something then maybe just ask someone for assistance…?

[peak geyser]

If u give me 50 bucks every month ill calm the chat down all the time on my free time my god

[hollow plank]

you're acting like we're getting paid to read every single message ever typed out on this server

[peak geyser]

I see alot of comments on the threads and they say they dont get help

[split pasture]

I personally don't understand how the thread FIXES the issue, sure it's easier to oversee, but if it's such a big issue then ppl are gonna argue anywhere?

[willow canyon]

youre acting like it isnt your responsibility to keep everything 'safe'

[peak geyser]

Ppl who are rude or try to use a critique channel for their personal use are way less interested to cause drama

[hollow plank]

it's safe.

look around in critique, do you see any spam or bullying?

[peak geyser]

Guys we do have a personal live hobbies FULL TIME JOBS

[split pasture]

There isn't anything going on though, barely any on-topic stuff either

[mossy fern]

Yes for uncommon issues or rowdy members. Never had a channel cause as many issues as critique the past new months. That’s why it was changed. It wasn’t like that previously

[naive nest]

Even if it's volunteer work, you signed up to be a staff member. Being a mod isn't an easy volunteer job, but you did it on your own accord?

[mossy fern]

It’s clear everyone here has very little or lacks owning a large server

[willow canyon]

the thing is its really hard for me to look around with this thread thing. it was a lot easier when everything was in one place

[alpine sapphire]

Clearly. They all wanna tell you how to run the whole server or how staff should function.

[peak geyser]

Lmao this is the first time im moderating on a server. And i can still take my time off. Im not married to it?
I have my dms open for help im available when i am on etc

[willow canyon]

why are you acting like theres no mods? the staff is supposed to help you and they clearly are on your side

[peak geyser]

For me it was harder. I have an issue with attention span so now its easier

[naive nest]

Your first moderation being on a bigger server was probably not a good idea/gen.

[peak geyser]

And we are always available when we have free time...

[willow canyon]

good for you!

[mossy fern]

Cause it’s not job. I’m not gonna make them do anything lol

[peak geyser]

Why are you rude abt it?
I love modersting and helping, im so much active that i saw someone getting bullied and helped them

[willow canyon]

its literally their responsibility

[naive nest]

I'm not being rude I'm being serious?

[mossy fern]

It’s not

They’re volunteering. They’re responsible to moderate when they please and enjoy helping the server. If they don’t want to be on discord or the server, they can do that lmao. What a joke. That’s a terrible mindset

[split pasture]

Idk how this turned into a convo about staff

[peak geyser]

Im online enough that i saw a member being bullied etc i think thats enough right? We are always tending ur tickets quickly so whats the issue

[split pasture]

I'm open to change, I just think the threads are inconvenient for ppl on the spectrum and I don't see many neurotypical ppl in love with them either, can't there be another way to fix the critique issue?

[mossy fern]

I turned it on so people can think before they type out stupid msgs liek this #1136842370609053727 message

[willow canyon]

wow thanks for highlighting me it really means a lot to me

[split pasture]

In fact it does NEED change, at least there's some going on, I just don't believe this thread format gets rid of the root of the issue. Rn it's just postponed since nobody rlly wants to use the channel

[naive nest]

Stupid? 💀

[peak geyser]

Arsonist we are always getting to ur tickets quick so how are we not active?

[willow canyon]

this really shows what you think about your communitys opinion

[peak geyser]

If u find a bot, thatll make it better show it to apple

[split pasture]

I can try if I can cook up smth with my programmer friends. What kind of bot we talking bout though?

[mossy fern]

Bro thinks staff should be required to be active and moderate lmao

[peak geyser]

Something that maybe only allows comments that are linked to a pic?

[naive nest]

Im not even talking about that anymore? I appreciate you guys getting to my tickets, even if it's usually just you. You put in the most work that I've visibly seen from the mods. Followed by ayarin. And a third one I see every once inawhile.

And thats not me trying to bash the others, but I genuinely didn't even know have of the mods.. existed? Which is where I think some of this is a problem.

[willow canyon]

now youre just being disrespectful dude

[split pasture]

Constantly replying to a msg can be pretty annoying, unless u meant smth else?..

[mossy fern]

So are you man. It’s pretty clear that I won’t force staff to be active. If you don’t respect that, I won’t respect your comment either

[naive nest]

There is the possibility of also adding a sticker bot that keeps a constant rule reminder on the bottom of the chat at all times. And it shouldn't be an eyesore as long as the chat cooldown is somewhat decent

[void yew]

Dont act like yall arent outta hand💀💀💀 dont be disrespectful if u cant take the heat as well. None of you wanna understand why we changed it and just want what you want. Its extremely frustrating. The world doesnt revolve around you, You can look and critique in the channel the exact same way you would in the old channel just the visuals are different. Some other people actually like the new channel, because we had tickets asking us to change the channel to a better system.

[hollow plank]

im down for getting paid to moderate the text critique channel, so if we set up a patreon will all of you pitch in for our extra work?

[peak geyser]

I beefed with ppl abt going off topic u really think this would HELP?
I dislike the threads kinda too, even tho it helps me oversee.

But i dont want to fight with people anymore

[naive nest]

Honestly if I had the ability to donate to you guys, just bc this is a big ass server and not getting paid to deal with some of this is a hassle, I would.

[mossy fern]

We had a patreon and only made enough to cover bot costs I’ve paying for now

Once again, more moderation is not the solution

[void yew]

^^^^^

[naive nest]

A server I've been in for a long time that has over 40k, almost 50k members had a similar situation with one channel being an absolute hastle. And cool down + sticker bot calmed down people more. Did it solve everything? No. Because you can't stop assholes from existing. But it did make it a lot calmer.

[peak geyser]

Yea since i see this as a hobby and have time due to being on train etc. But ill stop being that active if my finals are coming or if i need to care for my job a bit more

[mossy fern]

Agree, but currently th issue isn’t assholes. It’s regulars getting into drama

[split pasture]

Some kind of critique-checking bot could be a solution though, just need to actually come up what it could do lol

[peak geyser]

Im sorry i always beefed with the same ppl (those talked here) and they never stop even after a timeout

They would even insult me and call me a strict mod etc

[young yew]

woulve happened either way

[mossy fern]

That sounds complex

If one exists, I could try it!

But we can’t afford to develop that rn

[young yew]

i wouldnt mind trying ti program shit like that w/o charging you

[naive nest]

And I'm sorry they do that, and they should know that you telling them to stop is enough. But couldn't more measures be taken on those people for just.. consistency?

[hollow plank]

no because we have warned and banned people about this before

[peak geyser]

2 of them alr got tempbanned and the others got a warn. And it wont help, then we have no active members if we waen and ban them all

[split pasture]

I'll try looking for available bots, but If my bros are down for that, we can try to make a bot ourselves. I can keep u updated on that if anything good comes out of the idea

[mossy fern]

Digital the solution is not to warn and bad everyone. There’s an endless list of people who will@join and misuse the channel if it’s not setup correctly

[hollow plank]

guess what, their friends got upset, opened tickets, "protested" the same way you do now

[split pasture]

Coding is complicated so it'll probably take a while thoo

[young yew]

people will always troll and bully people no matter what tbh

[naive nest]

Why are you comparing me to those people ? /gen
It's not like I'm trying to bloodhound you guys

[hollow plank]

you're saying we should take measures on them like we never tried