h1-high-heat-strategies

[mossy zinc]

Don't think that's what happened here.

[flat flicker]

is that really necessary, it was clearly a typo

Glad you have a better memory than I do lol

I did forget that

Yeah I tweak the mods all the time lol it’s one of those “just because I can” sort of situations. I need more mods. Where’s the all aphro mod pack and does it make hades into a giant crocodile with a beard

ok all caught up good morning

[quartz mantle]

Yea I mainly use the modpack for hellmode toggle and sometimes if I specifically wanna do a funky hammer run like Hazard Eris

[flat flicker]

sometimes i just wanna goose blast asterius with spread fire ya know?

[mossy zinc]

'Tis not very polite.

[solemn pulsar]

https://github.com/cgullsHadesMods/hades-OneGodOnly

here

and no, it does not

[flat flicker]

aight I added your name to my autocomplete tho dictation of it is a lost cause lol

[flat flicker]

Awesome

Idk if you’re here for me getting fed to crocodiles for purging Aphrodite boons

[gaunt fiber]

They're very good at getting purged though

Not your fault

[hoary pasture]

Indeed

[timber pike]

Gonna attempt my next 32 heat run

HL3 is better than DC2 when doing fists right?

[shy plinth]

Those are weird options

[gaunt fiber]

If you take only these 2 conditions into account, yeah

[shy plinth]

I'm not sure which pacts would have either of those tbh

[gaunt fiber]

Idk if Malphon takes DC for 32

Could see it

[shy plinth]

You could

But I don't know what the pact looks like overall and it feels like there are other places the heat would normally go

The typical configs are the HL5 pact and the FO2 pact, neither should need dc

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah for a beginner pact

Speedy Malphon might?

UC is detrimental to ME so there's that. If you wanna lower EM or MM, could see DC

[left prism]

I did dc2 for my fists 32
But i did lightning strike

[gaunt fiber]

Although DC is not that free, I really wonder what's the fastest pact

Yeah for a classic 32 with zeus, DC is not much of a problem

Zeus Malphon is easier to play

[shy plinth]

It's not the worst option I've heard but it does make td3 feel a lot harder

Zeus does go a long way there obv

[timber pike]

Hmm

So Zeus would be easier then? I have underworld customs on

[gaunt fiber]

If you can avoid DC, avoid it

[timber pike]

I took DC off

[gaunt fiber]

Easier to play efficiently

[shy plinth]

I'm assuming LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3

[gaunt fiber]

Does not mean doom is hard, it's just harder to optimize

[shy plinth]

If any of those are not in play that's important

[left prism]

I did lightning strike cuz i hate ME lol

[timber pike]

I have LC4 FO1 HL3 UC EM3 BP2 TD3 MM

[gaunt fiber]

Understandable

I like zap a lot

[shy plinth]

FO1 HL3? That sounds pretty punishing

[left prism]

Well not hate but dislike, i still do ME for fun every once in a while

[shy plinth]

You're kinda doing the worst of both worlds thing where you get hit more and it sucks more to get hit

[timber pike]

Is there a better pact to choose

[shy plinth]

I'd consider pivoting to either HL5 CF2 FO0 or FO2 HL1

I think the idea of faster enemies or harder hits is reasonable

Dealing with both is gonna be a huge learning curve

I like the second one because I got used to FO2 and CF0 is a drug

But both are viable options and HL5 CF2 FO0 probs has the highest success rate for first time 32 pacts

[gaunt fiber]

I really hate to say to avoid FO

[shy plinth]

It's important to learn if you wanna go past 32

[gaunt fiber]

Sure it's harder but it's the path to get better

At least FO1 and low HL

[shy plinth]

Eh I think mixing and matching FO and HL at the same time is a recipe for frustration

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah low is 0 to me

[shy plinth]

Oh, yeah

0 or 1

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

[timber pike]

So hl5 and lc4?

[gaunt fiber]

Reasonable as long as it's FO0

[shy plinth]

Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn

This is copied and pasted a lot

It works often

[gaunt fiber]

Of course don't start aphro on Malphon

Athena will carry you though

[timber pike]

Alright thanks

Hl5 sounds scary but I’ll practice

[gaunt fiber]

HL5 on its own is not really dangerous if your enemies are slow

And you know the game and the enemy behaviours I assume, since you've grinded a bit to 32

[timber pike]

Yeah

[shy plinth]

It's also 32, so you're gonna have to find the heat somewhere

[gaunt fiber]

You'll just have to adjust a bit not to take too many hits

[timber pike]

I beat 32 heat once

[gaunt fiber]

See you're a gamer

[shy plinth]

Boom

With hl5 it becomes much more about precision

Empty dashing to not get hit, attacking with intention instead of mashing, etc

And not face-tanking dad

[gaunt fiber]

I love how we call that empty dashing

The base dash is meant to be "empty" but a lot of players have a habit of always dash striking

So they think they dodging but nope

I shared that with a beginner on their stream once, they were stunned

[shy plinth]

Yeah it took me a long time to break that habit

Fist gamer btw

[gaunt fiber]

Understandable

As Scratch says the fast attack animation is less punishing

[mossy zinc]

Definitely not DC2 for speed at 32.

Main thing to avoid with Malphon at 32 for ease of clearing, aside from the obvious RI etc., is EM3 + FO2.

[gaunt fiber]

So you have to high roll ME with UC then

I guess Magnil dropped UC for owo

Or kept it and went authority

Don't remember the end of the story

But yeah DC is terrible for speedy purposes

[timber pike]

So I should take the chthonic coin purse into asphodel since I have both Athena and ares?

[mossy zinc]

No.

[timber pike]

Ares for ME?

[mossy zinc]

You started with the Owl Pendant?

[timber pike]

Yes

[mossy zinc]

Blood-Filled Vial then, yes.

[hoary pasture]

Usually it's the other way around

Starting with Doom is better so you can get some early poms on it instead of Athena stuff

[gaunt fiber]

It's important to get doom first

[hoary pasture]

And it's also just more damage either way

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah as stated by our dear Mike

If you don't care about your attack though, athena start is very reasonable

[timber pike]

darn I died to asphodel miniboss

ok i guess I'll start with the vial this time

[hoary pasture]

You're using Meg right?

[timber pike]

it just dropped on me while i was trying to move

yes

[pure lily]

Hazard eris

[hoary pasture]

Happens

[timber pike]

yeah

meg isn't good for the miniboss right?

[hoary pasture]

She's perfect for it

[timber pike]

Oh

How do I aim it, i usually miss and fail to hit them

[quartz mantle]

Hazard Eris

[pure lily]

Foe my 32 heat's I took DC on rama, eris, and fists

I didn't feel like it was that bad

[hoary pasture]

The general idea is to stay close to the Gorgon head and Meg right as the crusher falls to the ground, that way you strip both of their armor and Meg also denies the crusher hit + the shockwave if timed well

Skullcrusher with MM is usually the bigger threat in that fight tho so if you cant stay close to the gorgon head or you're scared of whiffing it, it's always a safe bet to just meg the crusher to strip armor so you can finish him off

Gorgon head on its own is no big deal

[pure lily]

Gorgonzola

[hoary pasture]

https://youtu.be/G-Iovk-sbe8?t=337

timestamped

[pure lily]

Can we make a channel where we just pin all these helpful videos lol

I hate having to find them days later

[eternal hare]

tbf there is an entire server for it

which you are in

[bronze rapids]

Make a server that just has you, and make a channel for those

[hoary pasture]

That's what I did

It's handy

[gaunt fiber]

Pog

[bronze rapids]

based

[pure lily]

What do you mean

[eternal hare]

the speedrunning discord has all this stuff

[pure lily]

I don't see why we couldn't do it here, I like this server better

[pure lily]

Big brain

[eternal hare]

😔

[timber pike]

gotta practice my dodging though

[pure lily]

I've been playing beo and I fear my dodging will have taken a hit Haha

[bronze rapids]

taken a hit, huh

[eternal hare]

are you suggesting that you want a speed tech channel type thing in this server too

[pure lily]

[timber pike]

hm maybe bow will be easier than fists for my second 32 heat run.

I'm taking a bit too much damage with fists

[pure lily]

Range always easier

[shy plinth]

It's gonna take practice either way

No real magic answer

But fists is super close melee range and a lot of inputs

Honestly the best recommendation is eris lol

[pure lily]

What build you doing on fists

[timber pike]

merciful end build

[timber pike]

I used eris rail for my first 32 heat clear

I'm now trying out the other weapons at 32 heat

[pure lily]

Try zeus attack on fists

[timber pike]

ok

[pure lily]

I tried ME and had a hard time getting it going

Zeus fists started out super strong for me

Ofc get jolted and all the good t2 boons

[shy plinth]

When I do ME I do athena keepsake though everyone in here likes ares

Pomming the doom is nice but you need two athena boons for ME to work

So I usually keepsake the special

[timber pike]

I tried both athena keepsake and ares keepsake. i died pretty quickly due to getting adjusted to hard labor 5.

i think i died 5 times already

[shy plinth]

It's a big adjustment

[timber pike]

so just zeus on fists?

[pure lily]

Zeus on fists with all the zeus boons

I like a high % for special

I just improvised the rest tbh

But could go for any duo you like

Give it a shot and see what you think

[jaunty falcon]

ME is still the best for 32 imo

By quite a bit

[bronze rapids]

I like Ares first on ME bc even if you don't get ME you still have a decent doom attack

[mossy zinc]

It is. But Merciful End is also boring.

[jaunty falcon]

Less boring than a death

[bronze rapids]

at least I had fun dying

[mossy zinc]

The Queen of Malphon doesn't die on Malphon.

Can't relate.

[pure lily]

ME is better when set up, all I'm saying is on my 32 heat run I tried ME like 10 times then swapped to zeus fists and cleared in two attempts

There's no 1 answer

I think I ended up with lighting rod

[timber pike]

i did 2 me runs with fists already so I'll do zeus for something different

[pure lily]

It's nice because you can apply jolted to multiple enemies

When punching one

[timber pike]

its funny how the game is obsessed with naturally spawning both ares and athena while I'm not trying to get ME

I mean athena would be useful anyway, and ares for damage

[pure lily]

You can ways audible

Always

[ashen garnet]

Imo the safest and most reliable 32 fist is long knuckles Zeus attack (jolted also kinda needed) and divine dash. ME is kinda tough to setup and is less forgiving on failed dashes/stunlocks

[pure lily]

Team zap

[timber pike]

hl5 is quite the adjustment. I'm dying far earlier than I usually do

[pure lily]

You can avoid hl5 and lc5 on most 32 if you need to

It's good practice for 32+, but I managed to avoid it on most builds because the healing was rough for me

[timber pike]

i'll turn it off if i get frustrated but it's an interesting challenge to try and take less damage

[pure lily]

Like if you're not having issues with TD3, on fists or gun, you could try DC2 and take two points away from HL

I ended up doing stuff like that, knowing it wasn't "meta"

Worked for me

[timber pike]

I turned off dc2 for hl5 actually

[pure lily]

Word

I had dio carry me once by not maxing LC

And then getting his fountain boon for dad fight

[timber pike]

made it to elysium this time.

[pure lily]

[timber pike]

let's see how this goes

[flat flicker]

DC2 hurts the gun more than you’d think too (mostly if you get rocket bomb)

Absolutely cripples hestia

[pure lily]

It wasn't a problem for me with eris

I realize it's not optimal

[timber pike]

urgh I died to a normal elysium enemy

[pure lily]

Hestia is a no go

[timber pike]

after that I got the elysium dialogue at the start

[flat flicker]

fair enough, yeah i used it too on my non-hestia 32s

just something to keep in mind that it isn't "free" if you have rocket bomb

like i'd go cluster over rocket with DC2 up

not like, this 2 heat will make you die kinda thing

[hardy garden]

well dc2 eris is pretty meta

[flat flicker]

Yeah, I dunno I prefer it off when on eris tbh but what do I know

I take it at 40

Which I’ve done twice ever then got bored and played other stuff

[timber pike]

alright time to try again

[bronze rapids]

Sneak in the 2 rail hits before the special lands

[hardy garden]

or just one since you prolly have zeus attack

well ig for multiple enemies

[timber pike]

hard labor 5 has me dying to the furies.

[pure lily]

[timber pike]

i made it to asphodel and elysium before though

[pseudo kernel]

what are you trying to do?

[timber pike]

zeus fists 32 heat

[pseudo kernel]

whats your pact like

[timber pike]

its the nyaanyamewmew pact recommendation

[pseudo kernel]

oh

[timber pike]

i replaced damage control with hard labor 5, i used damage control on my first 32 heat eris rail and won

[empty reef]

HL5 is hard yeah, if you dont dodge those hits and have no way to heal.. hard ^^

[timber pike]

yeah. i welcome the challenge though.

[hardy garden]

if youre using zeus fists then dc2 hl3 is much better

[timber pike]

ok

i'll try that out then

i just wasn't sure if dc2 was ok

[quartz mantle]

Dc2 is fine on zap fists

[pure lily]

When you're punching one dude, you'll be zapping it off others

[sullen cloak]

Hey how is hestia in heat runs?

[hardy garden]

one of the best

[sullen cloak]

How? I thought the empowered shot would do more bad than good in heat runs cause youre not just unloading a clip like other guns

[pure lily]

You shoot one bullet and then reload

It turns it into a sniper

1 shot does 100s of damage

And it has unlimited (I think) range over other shots

It definitely goes further

[cursive portal]

its not quite unlimited

but very far

[cursive portal]

the opposite, unloading a full clip is really risky, with hestia you can dash strike from far away with aphrodite attack for example

300+ damage depending on rarity on one hit

and a lot of scaling from hammers like hazard, piercing fire, rico, cluster bomb, rockets etc

the only things hestia doesnt deal well with is taking away the top half of the mirror and the blue hearts

[winter dove]

Sorry about that

[flat flicker]

I’m in the minority of the high heat club that doesn’t really vibe with hestia, for my 32 clear I just went clockets

[pure lily]

I used eris

[raw cloud]

i am trying (and failing) to use eris

[tranquil quarry]

while I can see blue hearts being annoying for hestia, you could in theory chip those away before reloading and sniping the rest of their HP down, but that will add a lot of time for your kills

[flat flicker]

just push the right buttons. Especially the nectar button

[flat flicker]

yeah the point of hestia is you one shot one kill stuff

[tranquil quarry]

also, you could also use your special to break blue heart before sniping

but if its 2 blue hearts you might be in trouble lol

[flat flicker]

Yeah like I’m in the minority and hate hestia

The idea of DC2 on that makes me wanna cry

[tranquil quarry]

I just maxed it out today so I tried it a couple times

[flat flicker]

My 32 heat hestia clear was clockets go brr

[tranquil quarry]

gotta say having to remap my reload button was a little annoying lol

[flat flicker]

Not even real hestia

Yeah, I use flexible controls by aspect, it’s awesome

[tranquil quarry]

speaking of reloading, I also find it kinda weird that the gun doesn't just automatically reload when its empty

[flat flicker]

Hestia will reload but not with an overcharged bullet

[tranquil quarry]

instead it just goes clickclickclick until you let go of the attack button

[flat flicker]

Ideally it’s shoot reload shoot reload

[tranquil quarry]

yea I mean in general

[flat flicker]

Yeah once u stop attacking it’ll reload

or get delta chamber and not reload ever with i frames

I don’t think that spawns on hestia

[tranquil quarry]

would be neat if hestia replaces delta chamber with a quick reload hammer

but yeah hestia is interesting I suppose

I was doing a funny crit build on it just to see how much damage that shot can do with heart rend lol

the shots felt like hitting someone with a crit arthur sword swing

[gaunt fiber]

The reload is already quite fast, you can also special during the animation

[tranquil quarry]

what about a hammer that makes the reload empower 2 shots instead, but limits your max ammo to 2 only

call it double tap

[bronze rapids]

Ricochet Fire

[gaunt fiber]

Would be impossible since it would be Hestia specific

Only hidden aspects are lucky enough to get these garbage hammers

[next acorn]

[tranquil quarry]

sadness right?

[next acorn]

I think the only good one is reinding claws right

or however you spell it

maybe luci has 1/5 good ones

[tranquil quarry]

more aspects besides hidden ones getting unique hammers would make for neater stuff

well luci has like that double ramp up hammer so that might be good

but I feel like when I play luci, I just prefer getting triple bombs over the exclusive stuff

[shy plinth]

The endless laser with super soaker is pretty nice

[mossy zinc]

I think Lucifer probably has the best hammer balance.

Well, Triple Bomb is clearly above the rest, but all of the hammers are pretty nice.

[hoary pasture]

Have you heard about repulse shot it pushes enemies away it’s very very safe

I kinda like Beo’s hammer

It’s just that there is too many good ones for Shield in general

[next acorn]

oh yeah unyielding is nice

unless you get hyper sprint than it sucks lol

[hoary pasture]

It’s hard to measure how much its doing even without hyper sprint but I like to think that it’s doing something

[tranquil quarry]

thing is, when you're running shield, you basically never want to pass up charge shot

[hoary pasture]

Charged Shot is nice but you’ll miss your bullrush safety when you get into 50+

[tranquil quarry]

with beo especially, the bull rush based hammers are so good that the exclusive hammer just feels meh in comparison

I mean yeah, the extra movement option is nice when you start cranking the heat

I guess the main drawback with the beo exclusive hammer is that its like the only shield hammer that doesn't add any damage to your kit (??!) I guess?

like every other shield hammer either makes your attacks faster, gives a noticible buff for blocking an attack, or straight up adds damage to one of your moves

it can be good in some fights, but in other instances, doing more damage to nuke enemies faster can end up saving you more HP than a defensive buff

[cursive portal]

Nerd

[next acorn]

[hoary pasture]

[cursive portal]

Charged shot might unironically be the only way to do max heat lol

Or 63

[hoary pasture]

EM4 cshot is tough like I’d rather not if I have the option

But it’s the strongest hammer no doubt

[cursive portal]

7:40 em4

[hoary pasture]

[cursive portal]

I actually enjoyed that because I got to hear a lot of the soundtrack

[hoary pasture]

I wanna try some Beo 58 with cshot

[cursive portal]

do RI3 EM3

[hoary pasture]

Lmao

[cursive portal]

whats cshot gonna help with dc2

[hoary pasture]

It’s DC1 RI2 pact still

Idk

It’s boring

Resetting for poms and all that

I could settle for lower maybe 57

Atleast for beo

[hardy garden]

i like how we just skip 63 hell mode though would be a hell lot easier since you can do cp1

[hoary pasture]

[bronze rapids]

Did you ever get Unseen Ones to loop

[cursive portal]

No

That sounds terrifying

[bronze rapids]

nvm it's 4.19 long

[cursive portal]

HL4

[bronze rapids]

one whole TD

CF1

[cursive portal]

Trying to figure out whether CP2 or DC2 are more damaging

[hardy garden]

cp for zoos at least

[cursive portal]

Zeus suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks

[hoary pasture]

You time out with Zeus 100% of the time

[cursive portal]

Imagine having to actually get a build instead of one boon+hammer

The problem is I also need chaos scaling

Which is on mirrorless

[bronze rapids]

but disc go brrrrr

[hardy garden]

tbh that makes it about as bad as zoos special + jolted

[cursive portal]

Baj still timing out with splitting bolt

[dapper schooner]

eternal chamber is clearly broken

[honest kernel]

Try to not time out at 64 heat, when you don't have Stubborn Defiance to cover your back for aggressive plays, and come back to me

Oh, and t'was a Elysium endshop Splitting Bolt on a run that already was going slow because of Elysium

[mossy zinc]

'twas*

[solemn pulsar]

pretty sure this was more a comment on how tough it is to do beat deadline even with an amazing build and your skill, not a slight at you

[honest kernel]

@solemn pulsar That was for that comment specifically

Which I should have replied to

[mossy zinc]

Baj be like.

https://tenor.com/view/mj-michael-jordan-bulls-chicago-gif-21085992

[cursive portal]

Didnt mean anything personal by that comment

[hoary pasture]

It's more that the pact is garbage at this level

You're gonna time out with whatever

[mossy zinc]

It's too late. Next time you get to the surface, it will be Baj waiting for you.

[cursive portal]

[bronze rapids]

[plain parcel]

It is really impressive that the game is so well balanced that after all this time nobody has done a 64 heat run, but it's so close and will probably happen soonish.

[quartz mantle]

That is simply not true

The pact is wildly unbalanced in the high 50s let alone at 64

it was never designed to have all the pacts turned on at once and this was definitely not something the devs had in mind that people would be able to do

Baj is the only one to have cleared 64 heat in the past using a route and he is the only one (that I know of) that has gotten close enough on unseeded attempts

The game is really well balanced around the 32-40 range as that's what it was designed for

[plain parcel]

Okay maybe it's luck, but it's interesting that it gets so close to "can't be done" while still seeming just plausible.

[bronze rapids]

I mean that was with routed boons + enemies + shops

unrouted 62 is like "basically impossible unless you are the most hardcore of hardcores

[honest kernel]

To be fair, the route also had a lot of leeway, and it shows on the timer

[flat flicker]

Honestly not sure if routed or no routed is more hardcore

[honest kernel]

No routed for sure

In a route you can avoid bad enemies. And they can get bad REAL fast

[quartz mantle]

Routed still requires the skill but you don’t have to deal with as terrible rooms as you could have to deal with in unseeded

[flat flicker]

True. Just feels like I need a doctorate to pull off the routed thing right

[hoary pasture]

And your build will be stronger

[quartz mantle]

Plus I doubt you’re gonna get Smoldering Splitting Epic RD on unseeded AP2

[flat flicker]

Like how do you even figure out how many times to click the Meg button

[quartz mantle]

Yea exactly

There’s a route

[flat flicker]

I get the basic principles but how was that route discovered

[honest kernel]

We have mods to figure that out. We just take the mods out when we are done practicing it

[quartz mantle]

Cgull made the route and basically route down instructions for Baj to follow

[hoary pasture]

It's some tools alongside trial and error

It just takes time and retries

[quartz mantle]

Yea making routes takes a long time

Which is why there’s only a couple out there

[flat flicker]

So like if I did exactly what cgull said I could have 62 heat win too?

[quartz mantle]

If you’re goated on the Zeus shield maybe

[honest kernel]

For context, it took a few weeks to plan the route and make sure it was functional, and a few days to clear

[flat flicker]

But if I click Meg one extra time it’s all over? Or can you get back on course

[hoary pasture]

I think lowering the heat, and changing your mirror/ aspect will make the route different

[flat flicker]

Makes sense

[honest kernel]

Very hard to go back on route, if possible at all. If you mess up once you are basically on uncharted territories

And without mods you won't know

[quartz mantle]

You still need to deal with effectively clear every room, beat bosses without taking lots of hits, and such

It’s not just a “follow the instructions to win”

[hoary pasture]

Yea

[honest kernel]

Still a TON easier then what most runs will give you, that's a given

[quartz mantle]

Ofc ofc

But not free by any stretch of the imagination

I mean if it took you a couple days to clear it might take someone like me a few weeks to get a routed 64 clear

[honest kernel]

I had that happen once in my true attempts. I tried to clear it. Unarmored swordsman said nope

[flat flicker]

yeah i mean i can't reliably do 40 so

does it work the same way on subsequent attempts like

even if starting room is epic zeus not rare zeus

[honest kernel]

Well the fact you can do 40 heat is a lot already

[flat flicker]

will the rout behave the same way

[quartz mantle]

You need to use the same starting seed

[flat flicker]

yeah i sorta burned out, 500 hours is enough for now

but this is just cool to like hear how the sauce is made

[honest kernel]

You have to be on the same savefile to have the same starting seed. The moment you enter the house of Hades the seed is rerolled

[hoary pasture]

It's usually a save file that you keep trying over and over until you clear

[honest kernel]

^

[flat flicker]

ah just like, alt f4 if dad gets ya

?

[hoary pasture]

Well if you die

[flat flicker]

or quit the run if you're staring down the barrel of em4 and know you have no chance

[hoary pasture]

Just replace the savefile again

But otherwise if you go off route you can just give up

[honest kernel]

Or continue it and hope it works out

[flat flicker]

and like if i used your route on 40 heat

would it work the same

[hoary pasture]

It wouldnt no

[flat flicker]

[honest kernel]

Not sure, but I think it would be possible

[flat flicker]

pretty amazing yall figured this out

[honest kernel]

At 'least from what Cgull told me

[hoary pasture]

I thought some stuff like Dark Foresight can mess up with it in this instance

[quartz mantle]

Just use RI1

Ez

[honest kernel]

Or Olympian Favor

[flat flicker]

wouldnt it be ri3 at 60 anyway

like would that still matter

62*

[quartz mantle]

I mean the route was for 64

Actually

Well I guess it doesn’t matter for this route

[hoary pasture]

Yea I meant if you were to try it for 40 you have Dark Foresight on and such

I was trying Beo anyheat route

[honest kernel]

Oh yeah that's different goals entirely

[hoary pasture]

and I swapped Dark regen for Chthonic vitality

[quartz mantle]

But if you used Athena it could have screwed it up by having DDs

[honest kernel]

I didn't

Zeus/Dem/Aphrodite/Dionysus in the god pool for the 64 route

[flat flicker]

can u even get athena DDs with no mirror

[hoary pasture]

nope

[honest kernel]

With an empty Skelly Tooth, yes

[flat flicker]

[hoary pasture]

big brain strats

[flat flicker]

damn

[honest kernel]

Also works with Charon Well DDs

But they don't stick around if you take the Tooth off

Learned that the hard way

[flat flicker]

[hoary pasture]

It could work with a chaos dd technically?

[flat flicker]

yeah, same - losing my athena DD by removing tooth felt bad man

[hoary pasture]

If you lose it in the same room as you pick up the athena

[flat flicker]

i cant imagine a routed run taking chaos DD ever tbh

[hoary pasture]

since the slot stays

[honest kernel]

Why not ?

Chaos curses can be made free

Just have it near the end of Elysium or something

[flat flicker]

Wouldn’t you rather have epic attack damage

[honest kernel]

Why not both ?

[flat flicker]

How many chaos do you get a run anyway

I do see the light of ixion in every well lol

[honest kernel]

You can also have Chaos spawn in naturally

I just didn't see it really needed. Nothing preventing you from equipping the Chaos Egg

[flat flicker]

Im thinking my world of like, 3 at most

[honest kernel]

Not sure how many in an anyheat context

[hoary pasture]

routed anyheat?

[flat flicker]

I thought the idea was get a lot of chaos to skip combat rooms as often as possible since at that heat you’ll die pretty fast

can’t die if nothing in the next five rooms to kill me

[honest kernel]

Ixion wells cost a bunch of money. You also have to worry about Underworld Customs

And if you take Chaos Egg late that means no Accorn for Heroes

Which is scary

Not like it can't be worked around, but still

[flat flicker]

Yeah that makes sense

I feel like the guy in algebra two talking to the differential equations professor about math rn

[hoary pasture]

Having reasonably easy encounters is manageable enough

[flat flicker]

But I am learning

[honest kernel]

Also that. You can only have so many free rooms. You can have easy combats no problem in a route

[mossy zinc]

If there was good money to be made in playing high heat competitively, 64 Heat unseeded would have already been done.

Our competitive scene is pretty tame compared to what you get in some esports.

[quartz mantle]

Ah yes competitive single player games

[eternal hare]

who cares

play the game for fun

[flat flicker]

I mean the squadrons guys have a tiny ass community with no money but they still get super intense tryhard lol

[quartz mantle]

Lol I’ve stopped having fun for a while now

[flat flicker]

64 heat unseeded doesn’t sound fun at all lol

[quartz mantle]

Now I play cause I’m petty and I want that 55 clear

[honest kernel]

There is some truth to that, but it also wasn't designed with that in mind either. I'm surprised we have a scene as big as it is in it's current state

[flat flicker]

They struck gold, game gud

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, it's quite fun.

[flat flicker]

I’m like mad at Returnal for not also having a pact of punishment

and now I’m playing deathloop

Zero chance I buy either of those without hades lol

[bronze rapids]

From what I heard, guitar hero has cash prizes if you full combo some charts

[honest kernel]

Aren't those bounties set up by the community

[flat flicker]

What’s harder, 64 heat or through the fire and flames on expert

[mossy zinc]

I mean if there's a leaderboard, there's competition.

[honest kernel]

The latter, easily.

64 heat is mostly hard because luck is a big requirement

[flat flicker]

Yeah I kinda hit a wall around 40 cause AP sucks

luck based game kinda ehh

it would be so much less bad if they just gave you two choices rather than mocked you with the good one that’s crossed out

[mossy zinc]

In the 40s, luck can help you but won't really end runs tbh.

[quartz mantle]

You don’t have to use AP at 40

Be a gamer and use EM4

[flat flicker]

I got that at 36 on beo but 40 went poorly lol

[mossy zinc]

Even with AP, you'll still have Dark Foresight.

[quartz mantle]

AP1 is not that bad tbh

I consistently use it and still get solid builds

AP2 is a killer tho

And RI

[hoary pasture]

AP1 is okay as long as you're not shooting for very unrealistic stuff

Just look for a couple of essential things

[mossy zinc]

It takes some getting used to. Like your intuition for what you're likely to get from a boon is gonna be very off when you first get into AP1 pacts.

[quartz mantle]

AP1 is fine for everything that’s not Seastorm+Splitting

Or like ME + Impending + Dash

[pure lily]

Subjective question but what aspect for 45 heat would you use for the least hassle? I'm assuming beo or rama

[flat flicker]

That or Eris prob but maybe dio Eris

[mossy zinc]

Also AP1 kind of tests your ability to make the most out of suboptimal boons.

[flat flicker]

My fastest anyheat Eris is dio and that kinda bugs me lol

[bronze rapids]

Yeah they are

[mossy zinc]

Beowulf, Zeus, Rama, Hestia, Eris... the usual.

[eternal hare]

but the times you hit all of them are very blessed

[bronze rapids]

I was meaning more like "prizes exist" and not "the devs give you money"

[pure lily]

I like zeus eris

[flat flicker]

for sure, it's one of the best builds in the game

i was just memeing around with dio eris and like...wait i'm done in 8:55 how'd i do that

[pure lily]

I haven't tried high heat Zeus, I should try that

[flat flicker]

had exclusive access and two chaos rarity boons lol i was like

[hoary pasture]

Yea if you're willing to reset a bit on AP1 you can get the same busted builds as anyheat

[flat flicker]

its rainin purple on lando

i need to get HL5 LC4 FO2 down too tbh

and sooner or later will need to just take HS 😦

[pure lily]

Hestia has yet to click forme

Feels clunky

When I do it

[flat flicker]

yeah my hestia 32 was clockets go brr and not really play hestia

[hoary pasture]

Hestia is just about the rhythm

Once you get that down it's braindead easy

[flat flicker]

is there a song that has the same rhythm

[mossy zinc]

If you don't want to reset, you can still get perfectly functional builds with AP1. Sometimes you just gotta improvise a little. And eventually that improvisation is just another build you've done before.

[flat flicker]

would be helpful

[pure lily]

TIL I have no rythem

[hoary pasture]

Yea it takes quite a bit of getting used to

[pure lily]

Is it significantly better than Eris at 45

[mossy zinc]

The Hestia song by Hadesprofessor. Just listen to it. https://youtu.be/Uj2n13U9ALI

That's the music video.

[bronze rapids]

Practice slowly I Skelly then gradually speed up

Like music practicing too

[hoary pasture]

Well idk about better, they're both incredibly strong at that level, Hestia is very safe tho while Eris is like a melee aspect, for Hestia I found a big thing is to learn to cancel your reload animations, it feels like you can get a lot done when you just skip that animation

[flat flicker]

yeah i dont see this guy reloading at all

[mossy zinc]

If you start running before you reload, you can keep moving anyway. If you stand still when you press reload, you can't run until the end of the animation or until you cancel it.

I think I just tend to press Reload + Special any time I reload.

Also.

[pure lily]

That's the cancel?

[honest kernel]

You can do it with dash too

[pure lily]

Reload then dash?

[mossy zinc]

You can cancel Reload into anything. You can also just input Reload during any other animation.

[pure lily]

Oh

[flat flicker]

What button is reload for yall

L3 is fine for Eris but I don’t wanna mash a stick that’s bad for controller health

[mossy zinc]

You can't buffer the Attack input during Reload. So if you press Attack just a tiny bit too early... it won't come out. Better to do it a little late than a tiny bit too early because then you'll probably not get an Attack to come out and just reload again.

On the other hand, you can reload immediately after pressing Attack, so you don't want to delay your Reload input after your Attack input. A lot of less experienced Hestia players wait waaaay longer than necessary before they reload.

[mossy zinc]

L1/LB is the most common. But whatever works for you.

[flat flicker]

word

[hoary pasture]

M4

[mossy zinc]

L3 means your movement accuracy suffers any time you reload.

[pure lily]

I can't see that guys pact but hes at 57 and it looks like hes in fo0

[mossy zinc]

HL5 LC4 CF2 JS3 EM4 CP2 BP2 MM UC FO2 HS RI2 AP2 TD3.

[hoary pasture]

It should be 60 - DC - CP2

[pure lily]

I have cast lb and reload lt

[hoary pasture]

Oh its not hell mode?

chad pact

[pure lily]

Damn the heroes looked like they were moving way slower that fo2

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, it's not a casual pact.

[hoary pasture]

[cursive portal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/937342914097467412.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

[cursive portal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/934746515824578560/3b5a6b76-5c95-4e56-a07c-37052eb4d096.gif

okay when im wrong im wrong

but that build also hella rng

[honest kernel]

You say that but it's just a bunch of core boons + the death defiance

[mossy zinc]

My condolences.

[honest kernel]

The chaos boon could have been a lot of other support boons for similar damage output

[cursive portal]

the dd technically saved me in lernie, so it played its role

[cursive portal]

those wouldnt save a lame ely though

[mossy zinc]

Now just add 4 Heat.

4 Heat is free.

[pure lily]

Ez

[honest kernel]

Not exactly many things that can save a 60+ heat run from an unarmored enemy onslaught

[flat flicker]

Dying lament becomes based against Tartarus skull spam

[mossy zinc]

It's really nice in Tartarus and in Satyr tunnels.

[next acorn]

It’s so satisfying when it chains

[pure lily]

I wonder if I'll ever get patty and 2 sacked again

[cursive portal]

[mossy zinc]

What are you working on?

[pure lily]

Hestia / Eris 45 or Beo if it goes bad but I'm on a streak of not seeing patty at all

[mossy zinc]

And you're losing to what?

[pure lily]

There's a 50/50 chance I lose to Lernie if I'm doing F02, then Heroes if I'm doing F02. Dad less scary to me than heroes unless em4. If I die before then it's usually a bad build lacking DPS / skill

Going into heroes with one or two SD and low health revive is tough

[mossy zinc]

But you're going in with the Acorn?

Making a practice save for EM2 and EM3 might be good.

[pure lily]

Practice save?

I've been doing skelly in elysium and acorn for dad

[mossy zinc]

If you're playing on PC, you can copy a temp save when you're in any chamber that you want to practice to another profile and put it there as the permanent save.

[pure lily]

I did skelly for dad on my PR run without patty and regretted that. Almost died

[pure lily]

Oh, that would be good for hestia

[mossy zinc]

And then you can play the fight and just give up as you're dying or after you win and replay the fight.

Nyaanyaa's Practice Saves Guide

Save files are in ...\Documents\Saved Games\Hades.

Get into the chamber you want to practice, then backup your Profile1_Temp.sav in a new folder called "practice saves" or whatever you like. Rename the temp.sav to something descriptive like "EM3 Eris Heartbreak Strike" or whatever, so that you know what it's for later.

When you want to practice the fight, replace Profile2.sav or whichever slot with your practice save. Then just start the game and load your save from profile 2. (If you're not starting in the fight, open the menu and "Give Up". Then load the save again.) You should be in the fight now.

When you win the fight or die, open the menu (during the death animation), select "Give Up", then reload the save, and you'll be at the beginning of the fight again.

[pure lily]

Can you do multiple saves ?

[next acorn]

Just get 34 Pat 4 sack ez

[mossy zinc]

Yeah. Back when I was still pretty serious about competing for WRs, I had EM2 in profile 2, EM3 in profile 3, and Maxy in profile 4 and would just go through the fights back-to-back like every day.

[pure lily]

That does sound handy

[mossy zinc]

And I also backed up saves for particularly bad BP2 rooms that I died in to figure out tactics for that.

[pure lily]

Idc about records, just competing with my friend

[mossy zinc]

Well, that's pretty much what it was for me lol.

[pure lily]

I've about reached my plateau and don't wanna lose sleep over it but I know I can do 45 with some practice

[gaunt fiber]

I have a ton of EM4 saves

That I end up just not using, going into the runs like "oh well, I'll figure this out"

And I generally don't

[mossy zinc]

Don't think you're anywhere near any plateau, just high heat isn't really the environment where you can easily see incremental improvements because it's just pass or fail.

[pure lily]

Thank you for the kind words

Mental plateau maybe

[mossy zinc]

I think you'd probably benefit a lot from doing speedrun practice. You'll learn build optimization and fighting more efficiently, and you'll get more immediate feedback and especially more obvious feedback for both.

And that'll give you a stronger foundation for high heat.

But also boss fight practice definitely goes a long way.

[hardy garden]

probably more fun than banging your head against the wall in high heat

[mossy zinc]

Well, high heat was always more fun for me. I guess that depends on the person.

[hoary pasture]

depends how high

[mossy zinc]

That too.

[hoary pasture]

but banging your head against the wall is pretty fun yea

[gaunt fiber]

High heat better

[pure lily]

I tried speed running for a week then removed my mod to go back to high heat

But yeah I can see how they'd translate

[mossy zinc]

Well, I don't really mean speedrunning for the sake of speedrunning but speedrunning as practice for high heat.

[gaunt fiber]

I think high heat is still better to learn the aspects. Dealing with TD on hard conditions does a better job than getting carried by a lot of boons and no JS

[bronze rapids]

I find speedrunning less mentally crushing when I have the mindset of "ok how well can I utilize whatever this particular run gets" instead of "gotta beat that run with Cshot mirage getting out of tart"

[gaunt fiber]

Depends on your goal tbh

[mossy zinc]

Just getting lots of repetitions through all biomes will help immensely. If most of your high heat runs end in Tartarus or Asphodel, you won't perform very well when you get to Elysium.

[gaunt fiber]

Speedrunning loves Tartarus

More than high heat imo. Until 55+ I guess

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, high heat isn't really bothered about a suboptimal Tartarus or Asphodel.

[hardy garden]

do 32 heat speedruns

[hoary pasture]

or 50

[gaunt fiber]

32 is very much like any heat

But I'll get to it

[cursive portal]

dies

[hoary pasture]

pls

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/919869126850269184/C570F83B-C3F5-4C22-99F1-6AE711667189.gif

[mossy zinc]

There's a skill level above which a 32 speedrun becomes a lot like an any heat speedrun, but you need to get there first.

[solemn pulsar]

yeah astaos, get some more skill first

[gaunt fiber]

Boom

[solemn pulsar]

roasted

[gaunt fiber]

Got me here fam

[mossy zinc]

That was a general "you" lol.

[shy gulch]

tart is just so comfy

best biome

[cursive portal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/878872027916824626.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

[pure lily]

I prefer the lounge

[solemn pulsar]

yeah but it applies to astaos specifically, due to his dearth of skill, as he agreed

[mossy zinc]

I don't even know if Astaos is a general, and his name certainly isn't you.

[gaunt fiber]

I'm not a general

[mossy zinc]

Then you're evidently not a general you.

Case closed.

[solemn pulsar]

guess it's time for another semantic-off, the classic high heat pastime

[mossy zinc]

I win all of those.

[solemn pulsar]

Win all of the semantic-offs, or the high heat pastimes, since there are multiple and semantic-offs are only the "classic" one, I'm not sure which you're referring to.

Case closed.

[bronze rapids]

I recognize those words

[mossy zinc]

Win all of the semantic-offs, or the high heat pastimes,
Yes.

[solemn pulsar]

By responding yes to an OR statement you've only reduced the possible states by 25%, not quite helpful

[pure lily]

Yes

[mossy zinc]

No.

[pure lily]

I got Samir yesterday without really meaning to and had artey special

Call not special

I feel like that one is way better without Samir

Better to use maxed

[mossy zinc]

Smair, not Samir. Although Amir surely helped develop it.

[pure lily]

Thoughts?

[mossy zinc]

It's free i-frames every 5 seconds.

[hardy garden]

arty smair nice for i frames and reg rooms

[pure lily]

Thats true

I got it in styx tho

And and maxed it does like 30% of dads health it seems

[mossy zinc]

Artemis' Aid is only really good with poms anyway. So if you're not planning to put poms on it anyway, it's great with Smair.

Anyway.

[hardy garden]

if you have a lvl 1 common arty call it aint gunna do much ye

[pure lily]

It was purple

[mossy zinc]

Still bad without poms.

[pure lily]

[mossy zinc]

You want to get it to at least Lv.3, basically.

[hardy garden]

billowing strength and second wind also nice if you got those

[mossy zinc]

But I think it's really really good for burst damage at Lv.3 and above.

[pure lily]

Billowing strength with smair is

[solemn pulsar]

what's the breakpoint that makes level 3 specifically really valuable?

[pure lily]

It was doing 150 per hit

[solemn pulsar]

can it be mitigated by bonus damage from other sources?

[pure lily]

At whatever level I had it

[hardy garden]

tbh unless you have a lot of call generation youll prolly generate a similar amount of arrows anyways

[mossy zinc]

I don't remember the exact numbers since I didn't write anything down, but Lv.3 is like when you can reliably outdamage Aphrodite's Aid, basically.

[hardy garden]

especially not having to deal with immune phases

[mossy zinc]

Like, Lv.1 underperforms compared to Aphrodite's Aid, Lv.2 about pulls even, and then at Lv.3 you're pretty reliably doing more damage.

I think the Call has really good pom scaling, too. But imo you should only take it with the expectation that you'll definitely want to put a couple poms on it. It's not like some of the other Calls that can be great even at Lv.1 because they just already do good AOE damage or can also scale well with other effects etc. It only has that burst damage going for it, and if that burst damage is lower than a Lv.1 common Aphrodite's Aid which also comes with other effects, and you're also not planning to pom it, then... why would you take it.

[ripe ermine]

It’s not a reason to take it but 1 chunk of the bar is 20%, not 25, so you can squeeze out a few more iframes

Is what I tell myself when I’m AP2 forced into it to cope

[pure lily]

Sometimes with ap1 in end game elysium you get what you get tho

I def snagged it late not knowing if I'd end up with a call

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, late in Elysium, you just take any Call probably.

[flat flicker]

based aphro aid

make Theseus and Minotaur kill each other

[pure lily]

Aphro aide good

[bronze rapids]

I saw someone Charm Asterius right before he started the spin attack, killed Theseus from like 1/4 health in 2 hits

[hardy garden]

only problem is asterius will also keep repeating spins if you charm him

which might be a lil sus if your call is low lvl/rarity

[flat flicker]

or buys you time with meme beams

now we're thinking with portals people

[mossy zinc]

Good.

Means he's not running at you or anything.

Spin is very easy to deal with.

[hardy garden]

well also means you cant really attack him with melee unless your charm has a long duration

the more part is probably charming him into constantly charging you

[mossy zinc]

Just don't charm him into attacking you.

[hardy garden]

probably the best solution

[pure lily]

Aphro charm me plz

[timber pike]

so I died at dad 2 times during my 32 heat zeus fist attempts

I would've won the first try if it wasn't for getting 3 sacked. I had 2 athena dds and everything

[shy plinth]

There's still a lot of opportunity to optimize movement precision and damage output

Three sack is pretty favorable all things considered

[timber pike]

that's true i suppose. I'm usually kinda slow with the final boss so if i had an extra minute. perhaps I needed more damage?

I had 1:34

i was on phase 2

[shy plinth]

Usually I shoot for 4 minutes per biome

You're looking for consistent damage output throughout the whole run

[flat flicker]

And you’re close

[shy plinth]

Yeah

[flat flicker]

Like you’re gonna have a run where you just destroy it

[shy plinth]

You're in the ballpark for sure if you're getting to phase 2 and only losing to timer

[flat flicker]

Honestly my first Zeus 32 was scintillating feast

Straight up episode 9

not the worst idea if you think having more zone control would help

Also time is a resource. take free rooms, you’ll get a two sack and Patty eventually, or who knows maybe this round you go special - double strike- legendary and win in 12 min ez

[timber pike]

yeah I'm going to try more later

so what's best for damage output in general

[jaunty falcon]

Specific aspect?

[shy plinth]

For zeus fists?

Jolted helps a lot

Also if you're doing demeter fists I would consider smoldering air because it's smoldering air

Can keepsake aphro special in aspho

[mossy zinc]

You mainly want Static Discharge and poms on that. Also a couple poms on your Lightning Strike early won't hurt.

[pure lily]

Pom on jolted is stonks

[shy plinth]

Especially a non-common jolted

[timber pike]

i had smouldering air last run actually

yes I'm doing demeter fists

[hardy garden]

smouldering epic dio call my beloved

[shy plinth]

Oh what was your call

That should be a lot of damage

[timber pike]

zeus call

[mossy zinc]

Deadly Flourish is great for opening up Lightning Rod and Support Fire. Phalanx Shot is always great on Malphon and opens up Lightning Phalanx and of course Divine Dash is an immediate pick, also both of those open up DDs from her. Anything from Lady Aphrodite is perfectly perfect in every way and opens up Smair, especially Heartbreak Flourish does a lot of damage, but her Dash also has really god pom scaling. I don't like Tidal Dash personally but it's popular in combination with Lightning Strike especially if you can get Long Knuckle. Frost Flourish and Demeter's Aid are actually pretty great for Killing Freeze and Cold Fusion, which will just take care of EM3 and Hades for you tbh. What else... Blade Dash is always good damage with some poms on it. Trippy Shot for Scintillating Feast is a decent pickup and has amazing pom scaling. Beyond that, any good Call is always good on Malphon because you build god gauge very fast.

I think that's pretty much it as far as core boons go, like those are the most important lines to be aware of to get something decent when starting Lightning Strike.

Anything else is just knowing like good support boons. Like Ravenous Will, Pressure Points, etc. Those kind of boons if you come across them.

Oh yeah.

[jaunty falcon]

i really like ares aid on malphon

[mossy zinc]

Dash-Strike and Special damage from Master Chaos is great.

If you see a Flayed curse, which damages you when you use your Special.. that doesn't apply to Dash-Uppers. So that's free.

[hoary pasture]

Someone ban him fast

[left prism]

Can also luck out to having splitting bolt on tart

[cursive portal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/849657007131721758.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

[hoary pasture]

Is ares aid that bad

[mossy zinc]

Well, Splitting Bolt requires taking Storm Lightning, which is kind of a subpar boon on its own. I think the ideal route into Splitting Bolt with Lightning Strike start on Malphon would actually be Lightning Strike > Zeus' Aid > Double Strike > Splitting Bolt.

[hoary pasture]

For real

[jaunty falcon]

It deals quite literally negative damage

And chucks you out usually in a place which is unsafe

I hate it so much

[hoary pasture]

Yea that’s kinda true

You must be missing vicious cycle

[hardy garden]

vicious cycle stonks

[hoary pasture]

[mossy zinc]

I don't even know what the pom scaling on it is like and if it's worth it because I'd have to take it to find out.

And I'd much rather not.

[hoary pasture]

Yea I asked because I also never take it

[mossy zinc]

It doesn't feel satisfying to use either.

Like it looks like you're supposed to be shredding your enemies, but your blades are dull and nothing is taking damage.

[jaunty falcon]

If it was 100 damage maybe it would be good

Does it benefit from hd?

[mossy zinc]

One thing I love about Smair + Zeus' Aid is I just pull a trigger once and it goes BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM and things are dead, and then I can do it again. That's fun.

[jaunty falcon]

Smair ares aid is the game deciding that I’m having too much fun

[left prism]

Yeah it was mainly a joke

[mossy zinc]

If I have Smair with Ares' Aid and use my Call I just feel like... please make it stop, I want to damage again. Why is everything still alive omg I shouldn't have pulled this trigger.

[left prism]

My 32 fists was dumb and didnt get jolted but splitting

[bronze rapids]

Smouldering Air Ares Aid with Blade dash is fun, play where's Waldo

[jaunty falcon]

Where’s damage

[mossy zinc]

Where's

[pseudo kernel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/868578631293763644/Screenshot_365.png

Dad fight took like 5 mins

[timber pike]

wow

i've never used ares aid

[cursive portal]

good

[timber pike]

and now hearing this, i think i never will

[ripe ermine]

I had it on my latest Chiron 50. Cursed it every dang time. Hermes gave Quick Favor to rub it in too

Great here’s 10 seconds of trash damage thanks

Took out DC hearts I guess

[hoary pasture]

I hate it because I pop out of nowhere and take a random hit

[ripe ermine]

The lernie head smash out of Ares Aid is a pain I know all too well

[hoary pasture]

lol

[mossy zinc]

Just mash your Dash button when the Call is about to end.

[quartz mantle]

Nice Zeus boons btw

[hardy garden]

kinda a bruh moment when you have hourglass on from ely thru styx and see 0 braids or stones

and when styx has 2 poseidons and an arty and you dont get mirage

maybe empty dash bad idea

[honest kernel]

https://clips.twitch.tv/GentleDeterminedSkunkDxAbomb-RFZPRu6HsAMml-RM

Not how I expected the run to end.

Also the furthest I got without mods

[pseudo kernel]

👀

[next acorn]

👀

[bronze rapids]

was that also a block is consistent moment

[honest kernel]

Probably

I did in fact have the block up

And it just bonked me to the head

[solemn pulsar]

how far did you make it back when we had the monthly challenge for max heat?

i remember it was at least late elysium, might have been 34

[honest kernel]

chamber 33

I think

I dunno

Anyways got there without any free rooms in ely so

[next acorn]

the sheet says 50

also I appreciate the one chad who submitted a talos run under the name talos enjoyer

[solemn pulsar]

chamber 50? that's hades room on a 2 sack

or maybe that's 60 idr

[jaunty falcon]

It’s like 51 yeah

[next acorn]

https://gyazo.com/b48216822ac3979f9c8ad458531302dc

wow

oh this is on modded

https://imgur.com/pvDNhMb

this is the next farthest unmodded by Retrash

[empty reef]

seeing that 64 is scary😨

[hardy garden]

[pure lily]

1 dash

[hardy garden]

monodash eris

[pure lily]

[pseudo kernel]

Yeah that's the worst part about 64 heat

[hardy garden]

i should probably get that 56 zeus done

when you make it to styx but sit under 6 dire bother bombs and get deleted off the face of the planet

[pure lily]

The best part is it's 64 heat

[timber pike]

my zeus fists run still isn't working out. i'm dying a bit earlier than i was before too.

[honest kernel]

zeus fist felt impossible for my noob self

i gave that dream up quick

[left prism]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/911772277643833364/2021112021151500-C7D8C4153CC9802713604F54C53304E0.jpg
Just get splitting in tart

[honest kernel]

nice

[left prism]

I still love how it had all of that except jolted

[pure lily]

No jolted

[hardy garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/905191651901837402/Hades_2021-11-02_12-59-05_Moment.jpg just get ebic jolted, 50% dodge chance, and smair dio call

[pure lily]

Damn that build is sexy

Carried by bouldy

[dapper schooner]

so they died on cerb room

[pure lily]

I see why charged shot is good but whoa its dangerous if you're not used to it

you can get hit a lot easier

[hardy garden]

em4 monodash cshot maybe not so gud idea especially when no patty

[tranquil quarry]

man when I see you shorten charge shot to "cshot", I can only think lewd things

it was the same thing when they shortened concrete shot to the "cshot" in megaman 9 or something

excuse me while I get my head out of the gutter

[pure lily]

[pure lily]

Imagine mono dashing

[mossy zinc]

2. Keep it clean. Some of our games are suitable for younger players. Please keep your language safe-for-work accordingly. Avoid derogatory or offensive language. Some language may be more offensive to others than it is to you; if you are called on your language, take the feedback.

[hardy garden]

wait does mirage shot work on thunderflare

[mossy zinc]

No.

Thunder Flare is not a Cast, obviously.

Duh.

[hardy garden]

beo

[next acorn]

just beo things

[dapper schooner]

so then why does it want to replace my cast boon game should let me have both flood and thunder flare at the same time

[next acorn]

We could have that if sea storm worked

[tranquil quarry]

but yeah the reason I actually suggest people to learn those most difficult pacts

and slowly combine them

is because there is 100% chance that theyre gonna fail hard part way thru

and by doing so in the way I suggest, the player will quickly learn which combination of pacts will give them the most trouble and know which pacts theyre willing to sacrifice and dump heat elsewhere

when it comes time to actually do their 32 heat clear

chances are, most players will drop the FO2 in favor for something else right? but what if theyre the kind of person that prefers DD over stubborn?

what if they find that benefit package gives them way more headaches because of their weapon choice?

[mossy zinc]

Generally what I look at when coaching somebody to do their first 32 Heat is whether they can do TD3 consistently yet or not.

If they can do it, I just give them a good pact 32 Heat pact and build for whatever aspect they like to play, and then it usually doesn't take too long to get it done. And maybe we make a couple adjustments based on player strength if we notice any problems.

If they can't do TD3 consistently, then I just tell them to practice with EM2 FO2 TD3 to be able to do it consistently, with the usual goal being to just get a sub 15 because that usually means TD3 is no longer any problem. That usually takes like at most a day, and then it's straight to 32 Heat with a FO0 pact. FO2 only for a player who's experienced and where I can see it probably doesn't matter if they go HL5 FO0 or HL0 FO2 because they won't really have any big issues with it anyway.

[mossy zinc]

Weapon Aspect choice shouldn't have any effect on that. If they don't know how to deal with a BP2 combo, we just tell them. But if they learned efficient room clearing by practicing with TD3, then BP2 shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway.

[mossy zinc]

We usually just convince them of SD. The meta is the meta for a reason after all. But if they insist on DDs, then we can figure something out anyway.

But that usually doesn't include FO2.

[tranquil quarry]

also with FO, it can help players stay within a tight deadline with the faster spawns and whatnot

[mossy zinc]

Somebody who's not confident in taking LC4 SD won't really have the confidence to take FO2 anyway, so I don't think that's ever come up that somebody insisted on taking DDs + FO2 and we had to figure something out for them. At that point it just comes down to practice tbh if they insist on playing pacts like that.

[tranquil quarry]

but then again, I'm coming from the perspective of having practiced on FO2 ever since 16 heat lol

[hoary pasture]

At this point I don’t think FO makes you any faster

[mossy zinc]

Most of us here in this channel probably picked FO2 early and never looked back. I'll take HL5 FO2 at 32 personally anyway because I'd just take a speedrun pact. But FO2 hasn't been the best strategy for people who just want to get their first 32 Heat and probably aren't looking into 40+.

If somebody wants to get into 40+, we usually tell them to never take off FO2 because it's just good practice for when you're getting into the pacts where HL5 FO2 is standard.

[tranquil quarry]

lol

[mossy zinc]

?

[tranquil quarry]

yeah for me tho, FO isn't just about making the player faster in the traditional sense if that makes sense right

[mossy zinc]

MiKE's point is that if you're timing out on TD3, then FO2 isn't gonna save you.

[tranquil quarry]

its about filtering out the important information when the screen is a fustercluck

its about putting even more emphasis on knowing the enemy's attack patterns cuz now they don't give you the time to just react

[hoary pasture]

Well yea FO never makes you faster but if you still lack fundamentals and struggle to clear rooms effectively with FO0 then FO2 isn’t gonna make that any better or cleaner, it’ll probably waste time since you’ll just get hit more

[cursive portal]

FO1 comfy

[tranquil quarry]

its about getting your enemy target priority nailed cuz now those elysium doods are respawning even faster

but yeah you're right tho, none of that matters if you're still working on fundamentals

and fo1 is honestly the comfy middle ground

[mossy zinc]

I think HL2 FO1 is a reasonable alternative to HL5 FO0 for a first 32. I've seen some players do better switching from HL2 FO1 to HL5 FO0 and some vice versa. But on aspects like Hestia or Chiron, HL5 FO0 pretty sure has been the clear winner betwee the two.

Just so much easier to run circles around enemies and sniping them when they're not moving faster.

[tranquil quarry]

and yeah thats what I mean with some weapons being slightly more difficult with certain pacts

[dapper schooner]

^

[tranquil quarry]

like if I was playing arthur, I would never in a million years take FO2 lmao

[cursive portal]

-playing arthur

[dapper schooner]

like yeah ofc if youre speedrunning 32 heat then FO2 is going to be optimal but if youre just trying to clear then FO2 isnt going to save you from td3 or anything

[dapper schooner]

55 heat arthur when

[tranquil quarry]

when I was learning FO2 tho, it did put me in a different mindset tho

cuz I learned quickly that everything that I was relying on being to "react" to was all just a lie lmao

[cursive portal]

Idk man as someone who suffered through a 5:30 normal dad fight on cp1 53 arthur only to die at the end

[dapper schooner]

i agree with the top comment of this comment chain

arthur 8.5/10

[mossy zinc]

Just curious what all this is based on anyway. Didn't you do your first 32 like last week?

[tranquil quarry]

I mean yeah, but I went thru like a whole training arc until I figured out how I was most comfortable clearing it lol

tho yes I took a bit of a dive and went straight from 20 heat to practicing 32

yknow, 32 being just a spicy 20 heat and all

oh speaking of which, if a player cleared all the way to 20 heat bounties, I feel like theyre actually more or less familiar with which pacts scare them the most

[mossy zinc]

In my experience somebody who just finished their first 20 Heat has a relatively poor understanding of the pact for 32.

You see people come up with the most jank pacts when they're on their own.

[tranquil quarry]

so it was all just a spicy meme??!?

okay joking aside, I say it took me like maybe 6 or 7 runs experimenting with the pacts going from 20 to 32 since 12 more heat is actually a pretty big jump

[dapper schooner]

RI3 AP2 CP2 is perfectly good on 32 ill have you know

[tranquil quarry]

why.

I still don't get why someone would do that to themselves if theyre not going for like 60 heat

[mossy zinc]

That's the joke.

People actually take jank pacts like that though.

[tranquil quarry]

you say you've seen jank pacts

and thats what you mean .-.

youd think after 1 or 2 runs where you have 0 synergistic boons with no way to increase rarity odds or reroll from the mirror

and stuck with what is essenitially a shackle build

youd think a person would realize it was a mistake lol

[mossy zinc]

Well.

You had JS1 CP1 DC2 TD2 when you could have just done TD3 and lowered some of that for easier encounters and boss fights and a faster run.

[clever otter]

ive been told my 20 heat pact is kinda jank when i posted it here before but honestly it worked for me pretty well. i just hate BP and im really bad at EM3

[mossy zinc]

It's not easy to come up with great pacts on your own.

[tranquil quarry]

I think my clear time was just shy from being TD3 territory

[clever otter]

though its definitely not as bad as anything that has RI at that low heat

[tranquil quarry]

cuz I knew I wasn't fast enough at the time yet

wasn't it like a 22m or something clear?

[mossy zinc]

Your clear time was 22:53.27 with JS1 CP1 DC2. That would have easily been sub 20 with something like JS1 CP0 DC0 for example.

[tranquil quarry]

obviously now that I spent some time practicing for faster runs I would take TD3 in a heartbeat

[mossy zinc]

I think it's decent enough for 20 if you're not comfortable with TD3 or just like to play a very safe and slow style.

[tranquil quarry]

2mins seems debatable enough where I can honestly see it going either way

yes the jury summons and more health would definitely make a difference, but 2 minute difference would be on the iffy side

[hoary pasture]

You missed the DC2 part

Those 3 things can waste 2 minutes easily

[mossy zinc]

I don't really think it's debatable tbh. That's a pretty clear case.

[tranquil quarry]

also at the time, its not like I could be super certain I wasn't going to get screwed by time other time wasting factors like room rng or benefit package combinations that waste just as much time

[mossy zinc]

Anyway, the reason I pointed it out is precisely this. It looks like fine to you like how some RI AP2 pact looks fine to others, which you were wondering why people would take it... but to a more experienced high heat player yours is a very obvious case of why would you take that, too.

[tranquil quarry]

so TD 2 was what I knew I was comfortable with based on the previous run experiences

I don't know of any previous run experiences that would justify RI or AP being reasonable to take even if I was choosing them for giggles for a low heat run or for the fated list of prophecies

[mossy zinc]

Others have different experiences and ideas.

"AP2 should be fine because it doesn't make enemies harder."

Something like that.

"I'll just do AP2 and take Shackle."

I dunno.

[tranquil quarry]

AP is fine cuz I'll iust keep retrying until I get lucky

[mossy zinc]

Yeah. They probably also buy lottery tickets.

[tranquil quarry]

but yeah, similar to heightened security for me tho

all it took was 1 run to realize getting 1 shotted by sawblades was not fun times

[mossy zinc]

No, that's fun.

Sawblades that only tickle you are no fun.

[tranquil quarry]

"oh but it should be fine for my 32 heat cuz it doesnt make enemies harder" ... oh god

you say jank, but I'm actually kinds curious to ask for the thought process for some of this jank

[mossy zinc]

It's fun if you make it all the way to phase 2 of dad and then die to a 150-damage urn.

[tranquil quarry]

cuz at least I can explain my jank based on my previous runs on what speed I was comfortable with