53 seems arbitrary
#h1-high-heat-strategies
shy plinth
honest kernel
i think thats the highest i can make it
i cleared 5 times so far so i want to see whats my limit
i died
shy plinth
Yeah what you're doing is ambitious but unlikely to gain any kind of value
honest kernel
yea lol
shy plinth
There's plenty of time to explore the pact
But jumping in to the deep end doesn't help you swim
Just helps you drown
honest kernel
extreme measure hydra is painful
shy plinth
You'll get used to it if you give it time
honest kernel
yeah thats probably for the best
also i need to romance nyx so thats a reason for returning each time
shy plinth
The gameplay is a good reason to return each time
honest kernel
and the weapons variety is soooo cool
shy plinth
It is indeed
honest kernel
whats your fav weapon?
shy plinth
Big question lol
Eris is probably the best one
My favorite is probs Gilga or Arthur but those are not competitively optimal
shy plinth
Getting into competitive watching haelian vids is a rite of passage
honest kernel
lol you're right
shy plinth
The man knows his hades
honest kernel
i didnt even know you can do an afk build until i watched the revenge build video
shy plinth
You can indeed, though it's not typical for high heat
honest kernel
i need to try out the hidden aspects weapons
shy plinth
Yes, if you're only a week into the game there are a lot of things worth trying out
This channel is where people who have played hundreds of hours often strategize
You're more than welcome to hang out and ask questions etc, though there may be some spoilery things
People have played thousands of hours in here, it's nuts
mossy zinc
Thousands? I only have 1.2k. 
shy plinth
ONLY
mossy zinc
If you think 7 minutes is a far way off for you, then so is 53 Heat.
honest kernel
you're right
i need to improve
i been forcing myself to learn the extreme measures boss fight
cleared 3 times with EM so far
i HATE the hydra boss arena
i dont want to play "the floor is lava"
honest kernel
i hope so
i just need to control my dashes
and picking up hermes +3 dash charges can make me over zealous too
dapper schooner
damn
i got epic greatest reflex with splash dash eris at 50
and then i choked in ely
hardy garden
ngl i alway forget to use extra dashes
shy gulch
thousands of hours šæ
so much time to one game
im pretty sure there are like actually less than 10 ppl who have multiple thousands in this game alone tho
shy plinth
You have hundreds of hours played on zxcvb arrow keys
dapper schooner
i can either lose 50 heat runs in aspho/ely or i can reset speedruns in tart/aspho
why do i do this
shy gulch
You have hundreds of hours played on zxcvb arrow keys
thatās my origin story
fathom birch
for soem reason
overtime 2 hades is my biggest hurdle
I beat him a couple times, but he still catches me off guard and kills me like every other time
hes not even em4 jsut regular hades
he's so fast š°
eternal hare
just keep up the practice
his moveset isn't actually that diverse and much of it can be deflected if you've got athena in any form
undone tartan
Empty dashes are especially effective for FO2 Hades, although you were probably already using them
mossy zinc
overtime 2 hades is my biggest hurdle
Collection of some old messages I wrote for the fight. Might help you. https://docs.google.com/document/d/137Vqe-8fvStMJ_HMlBKWwq3SVdoOED0lOpBBSmgGwtQ/edit?usp=sharing
Also keep in mind that if it's just FO2 but HL0, good builds can be played hyper-aggressive because he won't actually be able to kill you before you kill him if you go all out.
Even if you take like every hit.
bronze rapids
also if you're not doing 40+ you don't have to take FO2
fathom birch
the second phase is a lot more predictable + no enemies
mossy zinc
FO2 is good practice if you want to speedrun and get into high heat, though.
bronze rapids
Chill + Killing Freeze is also copium
fathom birch
I have done 32 heat with FO2 already, so I'm trying to get used to FO2 now
and yeah im trying to beat my best time
so FO2
killing freeze š³
mossy zinc
You can learn a lot from just staying in phase 1 part 1 and evading him for as long as possible.
fathom birch
learning š
bronze rapids
Speedrun FO2 is a lot diff from high heat FO2 tho
mossy zinc
Speedrun FO2 is a lot diff from high heat FO2 tho
Until it isn't. 
bronze rapids
tru
bronze rapids
You can learn a lot from just staying in phase 1 part 1 and evading him for as l...
I keep thinking "I'll switch on god mode and do this to practice" and keep putting it off
undone tartan
In my experience, Hades (especially FO2 and especially single dash) is all about empty dashes
Unless youāre using shield
Or Delta Chamber lol
Itās good to get used to the timings and learn to dash through them
Beams are the only attack that canāt be avoided with a well-timed dash
I just find it helpful to remember that even though there are a ton of different attacks, you can avoid them all the same way
mossy zinc
Beams are the only attack that canāt be avoided with a well-timed dash
They can be. 
undone tartan
Technically true
mossy zinc
Why use Dash for i-frames when you can have Smair. 
fathom birch
In my experience, Hades (especially FO2 and *especially* single dash) is all abo...
what is an empty dash
persuasion is indeed quite good
next acorn
when you dash without doing an action its an empty dash
as opposed to a dash with an attack becoming a dash strike
empty dashes give i frames as soon as a dash becomes a dash strike you lose i frames for the rest of the dash
fathom birch
i did not know this
shy plinth
Yeah if you're just jamming dash+attack all the time you'll take a ton of damage
mossy zinc
Yeah if you're just jamming dash+attack all the time you'll take a ton of damage
No, because I have Weak and Smair.
fathom birch
š¤
undone tartan
I made a document compiling a bunch of bugs from the game, and wanted to know what people thought. Am I missing any big bugs? Do I have an incorrect information? Do you wish I organized it a different way? Let me know.
hoary pasture
Idk if Bad News description is correct
I think lodging your casts into enemies doesnāt guarantee you any bonus
undone tartan
Oh ok
hoary pasture
Iāll test in a bit to make sure since Iām not
undone tartan
Ok yeah I think I was wrong
cursive portal
Do you have rama shared suffering on lernie in there
-not taking an acorn charge from the crusher hit
undone tartan
Do you have rama shared suffering on lernie in there
No I donāt know about this bug
cursive portal
undone tartan
-not taking an acorn charge from the crusher hit<:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Oh weird. Do you know what caused that? Is it consistent or just a weird one-time glitch
cursive portal
Oh weird. Do you know what caused that? Is it consistent or just a weird one-tim...
Pseudo's seen it happen, idk what triggers it
undone tartan
Same question for the lernie bug
cursive portal
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/923340475107266560/2...
This does seem to be known tho
hoary pasture
It just happens
undone tartan
This does seem to be known tho
How does it work?
cursive portal
Idk
undone tartan
Just sometimes shared suffering doesnāt work on Lernie?
cursive portal
Yes
hoary pasture
Yea pretty much
undone tartan
Is there a pattern to it?
cursive portal
No
undone tartan
Lmao
undone tartan
āLernie heads will sometimes just not take shared suffering damageā
undone tartan
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/919598459655430184/1...
Thatās because the hitbox hits behind you, right?
That bug is a real issue
undone tartan
Iā¦ do not know
cursive portal
undone tartan
My guess is probably?
hoary pasture
undone tartan
Iāve definitely had the happen to me
cursive portal
š¤
hoary pasture
I have no clue what this means
undone tartan
Call i-frames
cursive portal
It says cast
hoary pasture
It says cast boons
cursive portal
hoary pasture
Also idk is that a bug?
undone tartan
Too many cast bugs
cursive portal
It can actually bug out on a greater call
undone tartan
Also idk is that a bug?
Hard to imagine itās intentional
cursive portal
Where you take damage while doing greater call
undone tartan
Wait what
cursive portal
Ive seen it happen a lot actually
undone tartan
I thought greater calls gave more invincibility
cursive portal
Theres times when the game doesnt freeze/slow down like its supposed to
And you just take the hit immediately after calling/mid calling
hoary pasture
Sometimes my game speeds up actually
cursive portal
Ye
hoary pasture
On greater calls
undone tartan
And no invincibility is given even while youāre unable to move. Hmm
undone tartan
Oh also I wanted to put down the tiny flare bug but itās so complicated that I canāt even quite figure out what does and doesnāt cause it and what casts itās compatible with and how to fix it
hoary pasture
undone tartan
Oh wait what
hoary pasture
Oh also I wanted to put down the tiny flare bug but itās so complicated that I c...
Selling your attack boon/ getting an attack replace/ upgrading rarity on your attack or cast/ picking up an anvil all make it tiny
cursive portal
This one's unreasonably cursed
undone tartan
Which casts is this compatible with? I donāt think Iāve ever seen it happen to flood flare
cursive portal
It happens to icy and passion only
hoary pasture
I think like Flood Flare for example adjusts its size every room so itās basically affected by the bug but just doesnāt care the next room
Yea itās just those 2 I think
dapper schooner
wot
undone tartan
If you get a cast replacement from Thunder Flare, it even says that the damage was 0
hoary pasture
Itās a literal bolt lmao
cursive portal
Cast damage bonuses like mirage/braids/chaos shots do nothing
hoary pasture
cursive portal
The only way to scale is splitting bolt/double strike and RD
hoary pasture
It has no blast damage
undone tartan
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/923595396993937428/Dis...
Yeah this, exactly
Oh wait but even if thatās not a bug, double strike definitely is bugged with it
Does anyone actually know quite how that bug works?
hoary pasture
The only way to scale is splitting bolt/double strike and RD
High voltage also ig
undone tartan
I wrote that one didnāt I?
cursive portal
Do you have clips/screen caps for any of these bugs
hoary pasture
I think I saw someone mention that Double Strike does a lot more than suggested in the tooltip with Thunder Flare Thunder Flourish and Call but not sure who and not sure if true
Yea I was gonna suggest putting some clips if you can maybe
cursive portal
Double strike is a very mysterious boon lol
undone tartan
I think I saw someone mention that Double Strike does a lot more than suggested ...
But thatās everything except likeā¦ sea storm and lightning rod
cursive portal
Also is doomstone summon bug in there?
hoary pasture
Itās not
hoary pasture
But thatās everything except likeā¦ sea storm and lightning rod
Idk how I could test that to make sure lol
cursive portal
If dad summons a doom stone in 66% theres a chance that he wont spawn anything on 33%
undone tartan
Isnāt that because there are too many enemies?
cursive portal
I think it hits an enemy cap
hoary pasture
There is more to it, the fight only allows like 6 entities or something like that, gotta ask Cgull
cursive portal
Possibly yeah
hoary pasture
If that cap is reached he wont spawn again
I think I also had fights where I get doomstone first miniboss then 1 other miniboss instead of 2
Which could be for a similar reason
undone tartan
Do you have clips/screen caps for any of these bugs
I donāt really have the means to make good clips for a lot of these but if someone with a modded game could record shot videos showing off some of the bugs (or if good images or videos already exist for some of them), Iāll create a 4th row for it.
cursive portal
Seems kinda 
since theres so many
undone tartan
Yeah
cursive portal
lv2 common trippy flare doing 290 damage will never cease to make me laugh
undone tartan
290?
cursive portal
Yep
undone tartan
I thought it was 220
cursive portal
https://youtu.be/J69QAde3BBE 4:30 here
undone tartan
Yeah
I can add and extra column for clips if you think I should. I just donāt think I currently have access to a bunch of good clips to showcase certain things.
Iād be very interested to see if anyone tests double strike
Also is the tiny cast bug fixable? Iāve heard some mentions that it can be fixed with Eurydice but I donāt really know if thatās true or how it works
Outside of just selling the cast and getting a new one which I assume fixes it. Although idk if replacing small icy with passion would, but my guess is that it would
undone tartan
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/923340475107266560/2...
Is it cool if I link this image on my doc?
cursive portal
Also is the tiny cast bug fixable? Iāve heard some mentions that it can be fixed...
If it happens by rare crop then it will be fixed when the cast gets its rarity upgraded
Yeah sure
undone tartan
Ok cool
undone tartan
If it happens by rare crop then it will be fixed when the cast gets its rarity u...
Thatās so weird lmao
undone tartan
What if rare crop upgrades your attack rarity but not your cast? Will that still be fixed by increasing the rarity of the attack at Eurydice?
And will it get bugged again it Eurydice also hits your cast when this happens?
Such a bizarre bug
undone tartan
Lmao
cursive portal
I shouldn't have to know
undone tartan
Itās so funny to me that people know Double Strike isnāt doing what it says it is, but also nobody seems to quite know how it works
hoary pasture
I dont wanna be counting lightning bolts all day to figure it out
I just know it does something
That's good enough
undone tartan
I must know how it works
prime lintel
all i know is that a Level 0 Epic Double Strike does a lot more than 35% chance of double lightning
it "feels" more like 100%
undone tartan
I hope someone tests it but Iām definitely not gonna be the person
Especially since I play on Switch and PS5 so I canāt mod the game
shy plinth
Why not get the game on PC
shy plinth
Your existing ps5 controller will work fine on PC if you want
undone tartan
I know
shy plinth
If we're talking just to experiment with mods and see source code etc then you don't need it to be good, Hades isn't that demanding
Just might be worth the relatively small expense if this is something that you're interested in spending this much time on
ashen garnet
Oh boi, it's gonna be such a long list
ashen garnet
Sometimes my game speeds up actually
It triggers me so hard when greater calls end up speeding up the game after god's presentation slowmotion. Messes up with timings
stuck crater
is heightened security worth at 40 heat?
hoary pasture
Yes
stuck crater
what about em4?
undone tartan
Definitely not
hoary pasture
EM4 is tough
dapper schooner
em4 bad
hoary pasture
It's worth 4 Heat so it can help you get rid of some other bad stuff like JS maybe CF if you have that but the fight is so punishing
And there is no way you're getting rid of HL LC TD at 40 Heat
hoary pasture
If you're willing to practice it a bit you can go for it, but expect to have good runs fail at the very end unless you're very familiar with the fight, and the weapon aswell
Well yes if you wanna clear it's probably not wise to go EM4
cursive portal
Nah EM4 on beo 50 is kinda free with hell mode
hoary pasture
^ probably the only one lol
cursive portal
Even unmodded
pseudo kernel
em4 is always free on beo just get the good boons
undone tartan
Wellā¦..
undone tartan
undone tartan
Genuinely I think 40 heat Beo with EM4 is harder than 45 heat Beo without it.
cursive portal
Beo 50-2 sack tony
Hesty-2 sack tony
Beo52- 4 sack tony
Sword 50- 4 sack
Zag shield 50-3 sack tony
Guan yu-3 sack
Rama-4 sack
hoary pasture
Now do Eris AP2 jolted resets
cursive portal
Like wut
cursive portal
How did I only get a normal styx on one run
dapper schooner
Now do Eris AP2 jolted resets
undone tartan
sack is total garbage
SO TRUE
hoary pasture
How did I only get a normal styx on one run
where
hoary pasture
oh didnt see that
pseudo kernel
my beo 50 finished with like 7 mins left after em4 dad
hoary pasture
my beo 50 finished with like 7 mins left after em4 dad <:bouldy:5233291169346355...
wut
pseudo kernel
cursive portal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/880877994019794944/Scr...
Nice one lol
pseudo kernel
and bouldy
pseudo kernel
no vid š
undone tartan
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/880877994019794944/Scr...
775 damage cast without mirage
hoary pasture
10th on leaderboard is pseudo's cursed run
cursive portal
Which one
hoary pasture
It's like 14:0x beo with JS2 CP2 EM4
cursive portal
They're all equally cursed
pseudo kernel
Im pretty sure thats top 10 on the 50 board
yeah its 8th
hoary pasture
denied mirage as in he didnt get it
undone tartan
Itās funny because the exact same thing happened to me on my last Zag bow run
grave sage
question, has anyone beaten redacted em4 ri4 with no boons before?
honest kernel
probably not
undone tartan
question, has anyone beaten redacted em4 ri4 with no boons before?
EM4 RI4 Boonless? Doubt it
grave sage
then has anyone beaten redacted em4 boonless with zag sword? (no ri)
mossy zinc
Boonless is not very popular in the first place and mainly just done with Hestia.
It's kinda... bland.
Turns out game designed to be played with boons is more fun when played with boons.
bronze rapids
sound like a year or two of chipping and dodging
cursive portal
based DC2 pact
hoary pasture
Retrash got to like phase 3 EM4 on fresh file
cursive portal
Or even remotely fair tbh
undone tartan
Yep
cursive portal
Retrash probably the single most talented person whos played this game honestly
hoary pasture
what I thought it's thegamer
next acorn
did he retire
cursive portal
hasnt played for a few months
since zag spear week?
where he got 55 with fricking zeus skewer
hardy garden
see zeus special stonks
hoary pasture
I knew you'd say that
hardy garden
https://imgur.com/a/0ucxGl7 the pain
cursive portal
the 1:10 was on 60 zag shield
undone tartan
I still have a special liking for td i-framing because I technically was the person who discovered it
And itās nice to think that in a perfect world, any amount of heat is possible with any weapon with any build
undone tartan
EM4 moment
bronze rapids
What even hit you
next acorn
spear throw
undone tartan
Spear throw is by far the most bs part of EM4
Without that it would honestly be a lot more fun
Especially because it for some reason does 50 base damage despite being the hardest attack to avoid
ashen garnet
then has anyone beaten redacted em4 boonless with zag sword? (no ri)
Not being a zagsword main (but kinda liking the aspect), but from my own EM4 boonless experience, you need at least a setup which can either safely break pots or outdps third phase's healing (survivability is another huge issue to handle though). Wasn't able to get a single EM4 Boonless clear from multiple attempts on Talos yet, even with an almost perfect setup (Heavy/Long/Pat's jerky up) because of this ... even when keeping Mort's summon for the right moment to help with the burst
Edit : Did attempts with FO2 on, so the frequency at which Dad is healing is higher. There could be a way with FO0
Would love to see Retrash try boonless zagsword EM4 though, guessing he's our best chance to get it
mossy zinc
When Retrash plays sword, he's playing a different game from us where things just work that would never work for us.
ashen garnet
Simply having more experience then, I guess
cursive portal
No cap EM4 sword is borderline impossible above 50
I've had so many runs just get to 3rd phase
On 57
And just perish
hoary pasture
Yea Retrashās EM4 is on another level
ashen garnet
Sword base combo
hardy garden
hoary pasture
I've had so many runs just get to 3rd phase
Have you tried using cursed slash to outdmg him
undone tartan
ashen garnet
What about CHOPP+Shadow-slash
hoary pasture
DC nightmares
hoary pasture
What about CHOPP+Shadow-slash <:thanthink:669246004142538753>
Maybe you should try it
With 1 dash
ashen garnet
That's tempting honestly
cursive portal
Have you tried using cursed slash to outdmg him
Wanna know something funny
mossy zinc
DC nightmares
That's what Drunken Dash is for.
undone tartan
That's what Drunken Dash is for. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Thatās the only thing drunken dash is for
cursive portal
It has em4
mossy zinc
It's also for proccing Privileged Status.
hoary pasture
Well itās Retrash
enough said
Retrash the type to do 55 Heat achilles with a spin build
undone tartan
It's also for proccing Privileged Status.
Yes but if youāre taking a boon that bad to proc PS, you should probably not be using PS
cursive portal
Retrash the type to do 55 Heat achilles with a spin build
Well im the type to do splash dash+repulse rama 55
On EM3
undone tartan
Itās crazy that BP2 and AP2 are worth the same amount of heat
hoary pasture
cursive portal
Wriste tried and failed to convince amir to remove AP
hoary pasture
Did they actually
mossy zinc
Was it? You're still playing the game. 
hardy garden
ap2 unmodded
hoary pasture
undone tartan
Was it? You're still playing the game. <:courte5Wut:859131244670222357>
I didnāt say itās game-ruining
cursive portal
It is though
mossy zinc
Maybe AP2 exists to make BP2 more appealing.
mossy zinc
I like AP2.
hardy garden
ap2 cf2 ri2 uc stonks
undone tartan
AP1 has value from a game design perspective, yes. AP2 really sucks though
I love RI2 UC hammer starts where I enter asphodel with zero boons
mossy zinc
You go, UnholyPancake. Teach those SGG peoples about value from a game design perspective.
cursive portal
I think the only change I would actually want is adding more time to TD each time you clear a tunnel
hoary pasture
cursive portal
Its not fair even for casuals to just lose their run to a 4/5 sack
hardy garden
also no patty = more time
undone tartan
Sack RNG is definitely the single biggest flaw with the game.
undone tartan
I think the only change I would actually want is adding more time to TD each tim...
This is a great idea
cursive portal
Add like a minute
Because the "I can leave or explore more tunnels" doesnt make sense on TD3
undone tartan
I have very mixed feelings about TD as a whole tbh
I like incentivizing fast play, and I think it makes it more fun
cursive portal
Its a lot like dead cells's malaise system
hoary pasture
At extreme heats itās pretty bad
undone tartan
At the same time, itās really unfortunate to have room RNG play such an important role in a run as it does in a TD3 JS3 run
cursive portal
If you stick around in a level for too long you will start getting big debuffs, enemies will spawn from it, general chore to deal with, it incentives fast efficient play
TD doesnt do that
undone tartan
There are some JS3 Elysiums that literally are just too slow and will kill your run no matter how well you play
hoary pasture
But I mean youāre kinda forced to do this stuff like wut
undone tartan
Especially with BP2
hoary pasture
In Dead Cells you could just run away into the next biome atleast lol
undone tartan
BP2 JS3 TD3 introduces a lot of RNG that isnāt particularly fun tbh
cursive portal
You chose those I guess
undone tartan
Although it would be a lot less of an issue if savior didnāt exist
cursive portal
Since the game was never balanced over 40 heat
undone tartan
I know
mossy zinc
They rebalanced TD because TD2 in Elysium was such an issue in high heat. But I think Dark Foresight was what really fixed most of the issues with it. I think we all knew the new TD3 in Elysium and with how long we saw EM4 took would become an issue eventually, but we now had new TD2 (with 1 less Heat than before) as a compromise at least.
ashen garnet
TD should apply until you get out and face Dad, or the outside fight should be considered as a new biome imo. It would be both relevant to TD's condition description and not mess with "sacks mechanic" (I think a lot of frustration about it comes from timingout because of the sack, not because of the sack itself -except for speedrunning-)
next acorn
I mean I don't see the point of keeping the sack mechanic in the first place
next acorn
If they really wanted it they should have made it so you can't get sacked when on a good pace (to have mercy on speedruns and also removed it with TD on
quartz mantle
TD on its own with no other heat just requires you to play the game faster than at a casual level
TD + JS3 requires you to have a strong build and play faster to not time out
TD + AP2 RI and such requires you to be able to play quickly without much of a build
The game was never designed to combine the three and thereās difficulty in combining those three concepts together without requiring major grinding for a good build through AP and the such
undone tartan
TD could absolutely have removed sack RNG just like it removes timer rooms
quartz mantle
I always though that
TD1 should disable timer rooms
TD2 should disable 5 sacks
TD3 should disable 4 sacks
undone tartan
That makes sense
quartz mantle
Itās arbitrary but just arbitrary enough for me
And also works out directly in my favor because thatās also how I set up my modded sacks
ashen garnet
I can get the point of sacks mechanic for story-telling/gauntlet purposes and not being a set number of chambers in order to be a much less predictable biome than the previous ones
next acorn
hmmm do you do TD0 for survival rooms or TD3 for sacks
eternal hare
td0
undone tartan
Modded
eternal hare
if it worked that way you'd have people sucking up the sack for the survival chance
undone tartan
I can get the point of sacks mechanic for story-telling/gauntlet purposes and no...
Yeah definitely. But in practice it really just sucks to introduce so much more RNG into the run
next acorn
If they really wanted it they should have made it so you can't get sacked when o...
this would have kept the mechanic without changing the story element while also being good
imo
quartz mantle
They made God Mode for casual players who arenāt good at games but want to experience the story, give us Gamer Mode that just removes things like Sack rng
Iām only mostly kidding
next acorn
or like
hoary pasture
Lol
next acorn
disable sacks after 10 clears
undone tartan
Modded is gamer mode. But I play on console so 
next acorn
switch gang zagpls
undone tartan
I switched to PS5 so I could record easier but I wonāt switch to PC because setting up my computer with my setup every time is super annoying
flat flicker
I switched to PS5 so I could record easier but I wonāt switch to PC because sett...
how complex is your setup
or do u mean like, the physical space ur in
undone tartan
Itās a projector and I sit on a couch
flat flicker
oh word yeah that could be tough with a pc
undone tartan
Yeah
flat flicker
i cringe needing to use my work computer to chill but those sweet sweet mods are worth it lol
gloomy hornet
i cringe needing to use my work computer to chill but those sweet sweet mods are...
canāt figure out how to install it
the only tut is a rlly crap video
mossy zinc
Hades Modding discord is pinned in #self-promotion.
gloomy hornet
yea im in it
flat flicker
Yeah ask those people for help š
I had two of them walk me through it on screen share which was pretty awesome
flat flicker
merry Christmas hades tryhard friends š
honest kernel
quartz mantle
the only tut is a rlly crap video
https://youtu.be/YF0ij7MgOrI have you used this one?
turbid perch
wait so with maxed out lasting consequences, you can't heal AT ALL? Ever? (not counting the possibility of getting nourished soul boon)
undone tartan
Nourished Soul doesnāt work
Stubborn Defiance works though
Thatās how you heal
flat flicker
yep, youāll find yourself praying for patty
hardy garden
unless patty our lord and savior comes in
flat flicker
but yeah, youāre gonna need to get super clean on your boss fights
hardy garden
acorn my beloved
left prism
Also hearts/darkness/premium vintage
hardy garden
cursed slash
flat flicker
GY Spin kinda stonks if you are up against em4 and he summons doom stones
left prism
Drain cutter
bronze rapids
Stubborn roots š
ashen garnet
Nourished Soul does work on LC4 btw, it's just that the % is so small on healing sources which are still working that rounding negate it. You notice the bonus with draining cutter or epic NS though
undone tartan
hoary pasture
Time also
undone tartan
Gonna get epic RD in Styx too?
undone tartan
Oh ok
hoary pasture
Was a good attempt
undone tartan
For my 50 fists Iāll do dash only Gil
hoary pasture
This is triggering
cursive portal
It is
hoary pasture
But also gotta redo spear
cursive portal
You've done 45 at some point no?
cursive portal
For real tho just do RI0 AP2 EM3 drunken strike
cursive portal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/903215893998346251/903221056834248724/dem...
cursive portal
Main thing for demeter is finding a good special imo
hoary pasture
I was gonna do doom
cursive portal
You can get like 700 damage even without explosive
hoary pasture
oh right there's that
cursive portal
Drunken strike also great because of the duos
I get both low tolerance and curse of nausea in tart on my first zag fists 50 lol
eternal hare
it's free until you pick up sniper shot or repulse shot hammer2
turbid perch
Thatās how you heal
oo I forgot about this strat, ty!
I was trying 64 heat for kicks lol
could not get past 2 or 3 rooms
eternal hare
no 2nd hammer by midboss kinda sad
pseudo kernel
Sometimes hammer at the same place as (!) and/or chaos
yeah but for me it literally didnt show up
eternal hare
guess you don't get the closure of knowing if you would have gotten a nice combo or not
hoary pasture
Are you playing on 300% brightness
pseudo kernel
nah thats just the lava
bronze rapids
accurate representation of Zeus boon brightness
pseudo kernel
it locked me in place
eternal hare
hey you got the fishing lava bug
cursive portal
Based
quartz mantle
CF1
bronze rapids
Ange1man for lamenting the absence of AP2 on scuffed%
bronze rapids
Interestingly Hypnos said Strongbow
hoary pasture
Yea ig it's a strongbow in that room
bronze rapids
minibosses without companions is pain
next acorn
pinging uno using CF smh
undone tartan
Did you know that both Damueās Eris 60 and Retrashās (seeded for drunken strike) Eris 60 had delta chamber?
jaunty falcon
Doesnāt surprise me, good hammer
My 50 has it as well
Though that was without em4
cursive portal
Delta good
undone tartan
I checked because I figured they probably would have it
And sure enough, they both did
cursive portal
Rocket sux with dc2
undone tartan
Delta is so important for high heat Eris
Itās not just the best hammer, itās also crucial
undone tartan
Maybe, but probably not that run. It was very close on time and he was at low hp. A few less dash-strikes and he wouldnāt have made it
hoary pasture
Can't really look at it that way
gaunt fiber
^
undone tartan
Wym
hoary pasture
If he has no Delta he has a different playstyle as a whole
undone tartan
Thatās true
hoary pasture
It's not just about a few less dash strikes or whatever
gaunt fiber
You assume that getting delta is a dps increase because you dash strike more
that's not that simple
undone tartan
Youāre right
But you canāt really say that he would have won that run without it either
undone tartan
I just think itās worth noting that even with AP2, both Eris 60s used delta. Thatās not a coincidence
gaunt fiber
the hammer sure is good
undone tartan
Retrash has cleared 50+ Zag sword without taking damage on EM4
Not sure how thatās relevant. He had less than 25 seconds left before dying to TD
25 seconds that could have come from literally any part of the run
gaunt fiber
well
hoary pasture
Well if you wanna look at it that way then sure
undone tartan
Iām not saying he couldnāt have
hoary pasture
Pointless argument
undone tartan
But it doesnāt make sense to say he would have
undone tartan
Pointless argument
I agree
gaunt fiber
I mean that Retrash can clear EM4 with a stick
so when playing Eris I'm positive he does not need delta
undone tartan
Itās 60 heat
Itās not all about EM4
And Iām never trying to call Retrashās skill into question obviously
That was never my point
gaunt fiber
Yeah I know that
undone tartan
But yes Iām sure he is capable of 60 without delta
But Delta make it much much easier
gaunt fiber
Itās not all about EM4
not sure tbh
your whole run revolves around saving time for that damn fight
undone tartan
You think you can get to EM4 consistently at 60 heat
gaunt fiber
not on unseeded
there's so many wrong things at this heat
and most are out of your control
so I don't think you should bother about consistency lmao
flat flicker
Once you get to ri3 and ap2 having a plan is kind of pointless
just try not to die
š¶
undone tartan
Once you get to ri3 and ap2 having a plan is kind of pointless
60 is generally RI2 but yes
bronze rapids
Looking at RI2+ AP2 unseeded vods, the plan feels like
Do you have the one boon you need by mid Tart?
Yes - carry on
No - commit sudoku
cursive portal
unmodded's wack
cursive portal
or charged skewer in room 12
my guan yu was first attempt and got charged skewer on chamber 1
then arti vorimed me
even after I rolled
gaunt fiber
oh weird 
cursive portal
epic pos special and shoals tho
gaunt fiber
nice
cursive portal
was gaming
gaunt fiber
poseidon on special is v good
cursive portal
poseidon on special is v good
not too fast tho lol
9 seconds away with a 3 sack
stinky 14:40 ely exit
cursive portal
epic shoals and I got epic pp right before dad
also pretty nice for making chariots and other ely stuff just fly into orbit so you dont have to deal with them
gaunt fiber
yeah
flat flicker
Whatās vorimed
Shoals good or nah
I purge it a lot
Tho it makes baby chariots free
undone tartan
Shoals is really good
All Poseidon T2s are really good tbh
Typhoonās Fury is probably the least good one and Iād still consider it pretty good
Shoals, Wave Pounding, and ofc Breaking Wave are all amazing
shy plinth
Boiling Point sucks
undone tartan
Oh yeah I forgot about that one
hoary pasture
Whatās vorimed
Didnt get the first boon you want
undone tartan
I just meant synergistic T2s
hoary pasture
It's a reference to a gdq where Vorime didnt get Flood Flare on Beo first boon
undone tartan
Lmao
flat flicker
It's a reference to a gdq where Vorime didnt get Flood Flare on Beo first boon
Whatās a gdq
undone tartan
Games Done Quick
flat flicker
Assuming vorime is a good player
undone tartan
Itās a speedrun convention
shy plinth
Extremely
flat flicker
Word
undone tartan
Assuming vorime is a good player
He got the routed sub 3
undone tartan
Cracked Hades player
shy plinth
He's a pillar of the hades speedrun community
undone tartan
Hate the spear throw
hoary pasture
The best part
cursive portal
Hate the spear throw
2 butterflies 1 sneak
so a buttefly made me stand in place
so thats why I took the spear
undone tartan
Love that the hardest attack to avoid is also the attack that does the most damage
cursive portal
nah cerbie is 200 damage on HL5 lol
undone tartan
Is it actually?
hoary pasture
lol
undone tartan
Jesus
flat flicker
Word
eternal hare
Hmm yeah I don't think I've ever gotten caught right in the middle before
hoary pasture
How is Rama week going
undone tartan
cerbie himself
Ohhh
Yeah Iāve never got hit by that
Didnāt even know it was possible tbh
undone tartan
Would swift strike and flourish be more viable (outside of the very few situations where theyāre decent which I know exist but theyāre hard to find) if the % was better? Or is it just a problem of dash strikes being too good
quartz mantle
Swift Strike Pulv Blow
Swift Strikes problem is just that it doesnāt affect dash strikes
Swift flourishās problem is not enough things care about special speed
Those that do love Swift flourish
GY, Chiron, Luci
Special only Rama likes Swift flourish technically
undone tartan
Yeah makes sense
quartz mantle
The problem with the Swift boons (and the problem with Hermes boons in general) is the existence of hyper delivery and + dashes
Almost everything Hermes can offer is very solid but those are just exceptional
undone tartan
Also true
But Iām generally satisfied with greater evasion if I canāt get any of those
Especially with rarity
quartz mantle
Same
Iām never one to really greed for Hermes or chaos boons Iāll settle for almost everything
Just not either QR or side hustle
Iāll take hustle after a roll tho
undone tartan
Getting stuck with swift strike or flourish on most weapons or the cast boons in any non-cast build is definitely unfortunate though
quartz mantle
Itās just the opportunity cost youāre giving up
cursive portal
Might aswell start forcing plume into aspho with AP2
one day I'II get bad news right
I remember ocaml getting it once on rama
By auto reload actually
mossy zinc
Would swift strike and flourish be more viable (outside of the very few situatio...
Even if the normal Attack or the Special is part of your DPS rotation, the effect is often too small to have any effect on your DPS at all. For example on Hestia, you can shoot one Special every other Reload without Swift Flourish and you shoot one Special every other Reload with an Epic Swift Flourish. So your DPS is virtually identical. Only Heroic Swift Flourish allows you to shoot one Special every Reload, so it's the only rarity that really has any effect.
undone tartan
Rare+ swift flourish lets you do 4 specials per attack on Chiron instead of 3 iirc
But yeah, I understand what you mean
undone tartan
Rare+ swift flourish lets you do 4 specials per attack on Chiron instead of 3 ii...
Especially because this actually has very little effect on your DPS
quartz mantle
Unless you have conc
Cause then Swift flourish has quite a large effect on your damage
quartz mantle
Plus itās not necessarily about your dps rotation but rather how quickly you can kill enemies
Swift flourish on GY or Chiron might save you from a longspear you otherwise would have gotten hit from
undone tartan
If you have lightning strike and ricochet fire on rail, can you get up to two chain lightnings out of each shot or does it only count for the first hit?
next acorn
if he rams into you
TIL you can get hit by the dog
fathom birch
seeing the dog for the first time scared the crap out of me lol
undone tartan
If Iām holding a spin attack and dash to release it, does that dash have i-frames?
quartz mantle
Havenāt tested it but I am going to assume itās just like dashing to release a bow attack where your iframes are yeeted
undone tartan
Apparently it does have i-frames
gaunt fiber
If Iām holding a spin attack and dash to release it, does that dash have i-frame...
yes
Very useful trick on Hades spear
also on GY but a bit less
cursive portal
Feels inconsistent without quick spin
hoary pasture
Imagine spinning
gaunt fiber
fathom birch
imagine getting 7 mins with the beo shield wtf how
i need to watch speedruns or something
hoary pasture
Yea imagine
pseudo kernel
imagine
pseudo kernel
same
hoary pasture
yea its also been done with Thunder Flare
cursive portal
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrJ-EoB3exqzpTDseNw6K4itLa9Poz1JX playlist with all flares sub 7 on beo
hoary pasture
The slicing flare one is a nightmare
undone tartan
imagine getting 7 mins with the beo shield wtf how
If youāre interested in learning to speedrun Beo, I encourage you to try it out. I can link the speedrun guide by PaperTronics. Speedrunning causally is fun, and donāt worry about anyone elseās times because everyone learns at their own rate
Beo speedruns are fun
fathom birch
https://youtu.be/jVtqqDPPC4M
what mods are used?
fathom birch
If youāre interested in learning to speedrun Beo, I encourage you to try it out....
Yeah sure, I tried the achilles spear too but itās p hard lol
i used thhe guide
undone tartan
Achilles is a lot harder than Beo tbh
quartz mantle
what mods are used?
Thereās a speedrunning modpack that does a few things
Guaranteed 2 sacks
The first boon offers all 4 core boons
You can select the first hammer you find before the run starts
Certain mini bosses (Barge, Asterius, and Tiny Vermin) are removed
You can see fountain rooms before entering them
fathom birch
Thereās a speedrunning modpack that does a few things
Guaranteed 2 sacks
The fir...
rng deterrance basically
quartz mantle
Itās specifically designed to remove aspects of the game you donāt interact with
fathom birch
no asterius miniboss wow
undone tartan
Modded is based but I play on console so I cope
fathom birch
do you need a perfect run like that to get sub 9 or something?
fathom birch
I can barely get sub 11 on vanilla my record is 10:50
quartz mantle
Tounis recently got a 5:44 on unmodded with a 3 sack and tiny vermin
fathom birch
wtf...
quartz mantle
A lot of it comes with practice
undone tartan
do you need a perfect run like that to get sub 9 or something?
Sub 9? Definitely not, no.
fathom birch
how is that even possible
pseudo kernel
how is that even possible
Go fast
quartz mantle
Rooms are a big part of getting fast times
undone tartan
I get sub 9s semi consistently with mediocre RNG
And I have a ton of practice but I also have a ton of room for improvement
But donāt expect to get great times if youāre just starting out
It can take some time and thatās ok
fathom birch
Iām def not playing optimally i think
undone tartan
Wym
fathom birch
I mean like I have been achievement hunting so
and also I make bad choices lol
also I didnt know asterius and barge were not optimal
I just be doin it
undone tartan
The first and easiest thing you can control and improve are your boon/pom/keepsake/etc decisions. The ones that you have time to make (assuming youāre playing IGT). People on this server and the speedrun server, as well as the speedrun guides can help with this.
undone tartan
also I didnt know asterius and barge were not optimal
Asterius loses like ~10 seconds over butterfly ball I think.
Barge loses a lot more though
eternal hare
asterius is a significant timeloss in rta categories but isnt as big of a deal in igt if your build is strong
undone tartan
Makes sense
undone tartan
Yeah
fathom birch
oof
undone tartan
speaking of which, I gotta work on my power couple and witches megs
fathom birch
I literally just learned that apparently the meg summon lines up with zagās shoulders?
is this true
undone tartan
I think itās time to learn to take less time for power couple than waiting for the skullcrusher to land before using Meg
undone tartan
is this true
Tbh I do not know. I really need to watch/read a Meg guide actually
eternal hare
it's a perpendicular line through the closest enemy relative to where zag is facing
quartz mantle
is this true
Yes
Yea Barge is basically a regular encounter whereas the other mini bosses are not
Regular encounters are multiple waves and can take more time to complete rather than minibosses where you can kill them very quickly with high damage and arenāt limited by waiting for enemies to spawn
fathom birch
Yes
finally I can line up asterius and theseus, the power couple, wtiches, and hydraheads
quartz mantle
finally I can line up asterius and theseus, the power couple, wtiches, and hydra...
The heroes fight you can just press up and summon and will hit them both every time
fathom birch
yoink
quartz mantle
In a speedrun the extra damage on Asterius in the heroes fight doesnāt really matter
undone tartan
No offense but are you speaking from experience here? Or just kinda pulling these numbers out of nowhere
quartz mantle
And the butterfly ball dies in like a second
quartz mantle
Asterius has a whole invulnerable phase you have to wait for
Like ocaml said for igt it doesnāt matter as much but itās still just timeloss
eternal hare
bball is a little weird since the eyeball cycles aren't consistent so you may just have a random eyeball spawn in even if you kill the bball super quickly
fathom birch
wait do you guys not meg the hydra
eternal hare
not usually
undone tartan
Only at high heat when Iām about to die
fathom birch
i guess it doesnt save much timev
undone tartan
There are better places for Meg
hardy garden
lernie doesnt really have much health
undone tartan
Yeah also that
hardy garden
happens a lot in high heat
next acorn
And you have to get an extra summon if you want to use it on everyone else you want to use it on
undone tartan
<:bouldy:523329116934635534> happens a lot in high heat
Especially against Blue Lernie
dapper schooner
I think itās time to learn to take less time for power couple than waiting for t...
0 cycle hard
and it's inconsistent as far as I know
mossy zinc
You're trying to kill them when they're already dead.
bronze rapids
tru
undone tartan
jumpin around and stuff
So true
mossy zinc
Needs more Speeder Bruiser.
shy plinth
Nobody needs more speeder bruiser
mossy zinc
Wavemakers disagree.
hardy garden
tryna kill aspho enemies with melee
undone tartan
https://youtu.be/x6AmMFEEE_w
The classic
cursive portal
Speeder bruisers are fun
Slugger bruisers are even more fun
Im just picturing zag walking into a room and 2 slugger bruiser shields are like
Prepare for trouble
And make it double
dapper schooner
which one is slugger again
next acorn
to protect the underworld from devastation
shy plinth
Slugger (sword) - The enemy deals more damage, like the Hard Labor punishment. (Stacks with other pacts of punishment).```use beowulf
get aphrodite cast
get sweet nectar
none of the poms are for aphrodite cast
hades pls
hoary pasture
cursive portal
Sell your pommable boons
fathom birch
good idea
plain parcel
Yeah, I've got much more willing to sell boons. Yesterday I took Poseidon attack for 3 rooms to get mirage shot and sold it again 
undone tartan
> use beowulf
> get aphrodite cast
> get sweet nectar
> none of the poms are for...
Thatās why you try to keep extra pommables to a minimum
next acorn
Poseidon attack can knock enemies out of your flare sometimes
Unless all your other cores were filled I probably would have at least rolled once
Also Arty attack is pretty good damage
undone tartan
Poseidon attack is a direct detriment for Beo, yeah
Arty attack is actually very good
Second place isnāt close
undone tartan
You mean Olympian favor?
iron oar
dumb q, can i pick 2 heat difficulty if im on heat 0?
or do i have to go thru it one by one
flat flicker
dumb q, can i pick 2 heat difficulty if im on heat 0?
once you unlock the pact you can do whatever you want, but you wont get bounties beyond the heat level you're on
so if you beat 0, then win on 2 heat
youll get bounties for 1 heat level and if you do 2 again you will have the bounties again, not darkness drops
post bosses
does that make sense?