Flurry Jab on its own is good enough to make up for that, but with Serrated Point, it's terrible for high heat.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
undone tartan
Doesn’t that happen regardless of Serrated Point?
mossy zinc
Not for high heat when you need to actually not die.
mossy zinc
Doesn’t that happen regardless of Serrated Point?
Yes, but it's way worse for survival with Serrated Point.
undone tartan
Why exactly though? The reduced dash distance? The increased dash-strike duration?
mossy zinc
Both of those things.
undone tartan
Makes sense
mossy zinc
Worst of both worlds.
I wish you could turn off auto-aim for just Achilles's Special. That would be so good.
solar maple
was so crazy to me when I saw what achilles special auto aim looked like for controller players 
I had always assumed it was like +- 15 degrees from the enemy
hardy garden
tryna not special at asterius when he's beyblading 
daring hedge
love to yeet zag right into an urn with controller achilles special
next acorn
next wyvern
is it just me or it is nigh impossible to know which Lazer crystal clone is the main one?
for some reasons i always failed to recognize them
mossy zinc
Experience helps a lot with that. It's difficult to see things like that when everything is hectic.
next wyvern
my eyes going blind
honest kernel
yeah I cant tell them apart at all
I just try to focus on the one that spawned first since it has to be the main one
I only have this issue with crystal clones everything else is fine
gaunt fiber
The best thing to do is kill them before they have time to clone
It's really difficult to tell them apart indeed
Same as Toffel, this is only enemy that gives me that much trouble
cursive portal
Pests are also a nuisance sometimes
gaunt fiber
True
mossy zinc
I suggest you take your time actually looking for the real ones instead of wasting time chasing clones. And all those extra effects from your attacks and the camera jerking will make it more difficult to find them.
trim sigil
Not to forget that Chill will make them look the exact same, making it even harder
mossy zinc
Thanks, grandma.
undone tartan
Pests are also a nuisance sometimes
Cloner warper pests always make me lose so much time
undone tartan
Who owns the Hades megasheet? Do they have any plans to update things that have changed, especially since the game is likely done with balancing? (Such as trippy flare, which has outdated numbers)
I use that sheet a ton but for some things it’s incorrect which is unfortunate
narrow carbon
This sheet by Museus? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M8uSUx4vW6TZHHb8z7SbGL4uWxcME7aB3LAIikfpmoM/edit
Oops, I mean https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cVdy_XLcHHzbJsIG_OX6vUlr8eTlcLuw32FXq-gx1jc/edit
narrow carbon
I’d say use these others
undone tartan
But they’re not as pretty
narrow carbon
In pom scaling, the only thing incorrect is that the actual formula for impending doom has more rounding than the regular formula
undone tartan
Oops, I mean https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cVdy_XLcHHzbJsIG_OX6vUlr8eT...
Umm this sheet has a boon called “wanted dead” on it
Are you sure it’s up to date?
narrow carbon
It has some extra boons but it is correct. It’s used in the speedrun Discord.
undone tartan
Alright
narrow carbon
Boons from early access I guess
undone tartan
I just miss the organization of the other sheet. Maybe I’ll copy it, and then use the data from the correct sheet to fix it
narrow carbon
I think the sheet was directly extracted from game file data, which still stores stats for old boons
undone tartan
Ahh gotcha. It doesn’t have trippy flare on there, I assume because it has the same stats as trippy shot?
narrow carbon
Yeah, I think Trippy is weird that way (and in other ways)
Like, pomming Trippy Flare once has the effect of pomming it twice, but the tooltip displays as if only pommed once
And it crits for 2x instead of 3x
undone tartan
Like, pomming Trippy Flare once has the effect of pomming it twice, but the tool...
Yeah every pom does exactly twice as much as it says it’s doing
narrow carbon
Flood Flare is also not on the sheet, because internally the game just reuses Flood Shot
static plover
Boons from early access I guess
Yeah, wanted dead was an artemis boon in early access that was scrapped entirely
mossy zinc
That was the bounty hunter one that gave extra obols when killing a Marked enemy?
static plover
Iirc it was yeah
bronze rapids
sounds fiddly to pull off with armored units
flat flicker
It sounds not that useful but a neat idea
I wish the wiki had a list of cut boons just for reading on trains or whatever
static plover
Why was it scrapped?
I can only make a guess as to why.
I think it was because it was effectively a non legendary T3 boon (it was a T2 boon that required 2 other T2 boons), it was also incredibly situational for being an effective T3 boon. Also the potential for boon bloat
next acorn
Yeah that makes sense
upper stirrup
Suggestions for 32 heat bow build? Working on bow now and struggling with Chiron could be some bad rng but…suggestions?
mossy zinc
What is your pact and what build are you going for?
upper stirrup
32 I was using Chiron with heart rend art on special and Aphrodite attack with dio call and Poseidon shot and dash
I need to practice Rama
mossy zinc
Yeah, what pacts specifically? And what's your mirror?
Chiron is great for 32, aspect choice isn't the problem.
Also what's been killing you?
undone tartan
I like Heart Rend Chiron
upper stirrup
Sorry I can’t post a pic I was trying sec
bronze rapids
you need to host the pic somewhere else and paste the link here
next acorn
Could also just type it out
bronze rapids
(or look up acronyms in the pins and type it)
upper stirrup
TD 3 / DC2 / FO2 / UC / MM / BP2 / EM2 / CF 2 / LC1 / HL3
I feel like I need low LC because I always need the health
bronze rapids
shift something to EM3...DC2 maybe?
upper stirrup
When I use LC 3 and 4 I sometimes burn a death Defiance
bronze rapids
if you want to go LC4 route you take Stubborn Def
pseudo flame
FO2 O_O
upper stirrup
I was running EM3 but I can burn them so much faster and I don’t love them on higher heat
I always run FO2 I’m used to it
mossy zinc
Hmmm.
bronze rapids
EM3 FO1??
mossy zinc
Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
Do that for Chiron.
You can get DDs from Lady Athena if you lose your SD in the chamber and take her Last Stand or Deathless Stand. Your SD will replenish like normal in the next chamber, too.
upper stirrup
Will lucky tooth stay if I switch do I get to keep the extra DD?
mossy zinc
No, you only get the DD from Lucky Tooth while you have it equipped.
next acorn
Stubborn defiance cozy
mossy zinc
If you have a DD from Lady Athena already, definitely don't take the Lucky Tooth. It will overwrite one of them. That's bugged.
No, it procs last.
upper stirrup
Before other dD?
Lol
So why do I take lucky?
I usually have DD when I leave biome 2
It’s biome 3 and the maze
flat flicker
This is assuming you’re running lc4 and stubborn defiance
mossy zinc
Yeah.
mossy zinc
Lucky Tooth in Elysium can help you survive until you have higher HP or hopefully Touch of Styx Dark from Patroclus. Acorn is better in Elysium if you already have decent max HP or at least one DD from Lady Athena or Master Chaos.
upper stirrup
Ok thank you all and @mossy zinc I’ll try it and let you know
@mossy zinc I’m starting with Aphrodite and hoping for Art not the other way?
mossy zinc
You're starting with Heartbreak Strike and look for either Drunken Flourish or Deadly Flourish.
Although and Epic Heartbreak Flourish is great, too.
Also look for Smoldering Air.
Basically your routes are: Heart Rend, Low Tolerance, Smoldering Air.
upper stirrup
Ok
mossy zinc
If you get Tidal Dash, you open up Sweet Nectar for big poms on your Dash.
upper stirrup
Hopefully before biome 4 lol
mossy zinc
Tempest Flourish is also great if you have Lord Zeus in your pool for Sea Storm potential.
upper stirrup
Right
mossy zinc
Basically, starting with the opens up a lot more routes for you than starting with the Adamant Arrowhead.
Owl Pendant in Asphodel is for Divine Dash and then hopefully DDs from her.
And make sure you take Chaos Gates for Flourish, Lunge, and Strike boons.
HP is great, too.
upper stirrup
Why stubborn over death defiance?
shy plinth
For the 4 heat from lc4
Lot of heat for a relatively small sacrifice, just requires cleaner boss fights
upper stirrup
Gotcha
bronze viper
CF2 also kind of necessitates Stubborn. Unless you're that confident you're not going to get hit, each hit will cost you way too much gold
shy plinth
Also you don't have to run CF2...
flat flicker
Cf2 hard 😦
undone tartan
CF2 32 is probably not necessary
mossy zinc
CF2 is fine.
upper stirrup
I don’t mind it
undone tartan
It’s not that bad, but it’s probably not worth it imo
shy plinth
Not a deal breaker or maker
Big question is just do you want enemies to move faster or hit harder or both
mossy zinc
CF2 has little effect on the strategy in that pact.
You could swap out CF2 for AP1, but that hurts boons from Master Chaos and Lord Hermes.
undone tartan
Definitely I would highly suggest against AP1 for 32 heat
mossy zinc
And newer players have difficulty enough gauging what boons they can get without AP1.
undone tartan
Beowulf is probably my new favorite weapon. It’s surpassed Rama
mossy zinc
I don't think you understand the strategy of that 32 Heat guide at all.
upper stirrup
With LC4 how am I healing?
undone tartan
Stubborn Defiance
upper stirrup
That’s it 😂😅?
mossy zinc
Centaur Hearts are important, yeah.
undone tartan
It’s not as bad as it sounds
mossy zinc
The total HP you have over a run is pretty high because you can heal back to 30% HP every chamber.
upper stirrup
How am I healing back 30% each chamber?
mossy zinc
SD heals you back to 30% of your max HP.
upper stirrup
I havnt used SD since I got DD lol
mossy zinc
When your HP drops below 30%, you can just revive by letting the last enemy kill you or by stepping on traps/magma.
mossy zinc
Only if you're below 30%, yeah.
upper stirrup
Chamber = each room sorry I am scrubby on this part
undone tartan
It gives you a lot more room for error in normal rooms (and a lot less in late bosses)
upper stirrup
I thought each biome was a chamber
And each encounter was a room with an enemy
But chamber -= room?
mossy zinc
Yes.
shy plinth
Your base health is basically armor that regenerates
upper stirrup
Not used to using SD
bronze rapids
sometimes you don't have to try and die every single room, if you're confident you can last another
mossy zinc
@undone tartan the strategy for the pact is to keep the difficulty of encounters at a minimum. That means if you don't take CF2, the options are RI1 and AP1. Anything else makes encounters quite a bit more difficult. Except Rama can swap out CF2 for DC2 without any real effect on encounters. Keeping encounter difficulty at a minimum means the requirements for the player's tactical expertise is also kept at a minimum.
and a lot less in late bosses
That's not the case if you get Touch of Styx Dark and have DDs. Hence the Owl Pendant in Asphodel.
undone tartan
Yeah that’s true
mossy zinc
You can effectively have 3 DDs that heal you to 90% or more when you reach Theseus & Asterius or Hades.
undone tartan
Yeah but that usually doesn’t happen
mossy zinc
It happens quite often that you have at least one DD and Touch of Styx Dark.
undone tartan
With AP0 yeah
mossy zinc
That's another reason for CF2 AP0 in the pact, yeah.
undone tartan
I’d do CF2 before AP1 on any weapon with any pact tbh
mossy zinc
Hmm. Maybe CF0 AP1 on Beowulf. Three boon build.
Things like that.
But generally CF2 AP0, yeah.
undone tartan
Nah I’d definitely do CF2 AP0 for Beo, personally
mossy zinc
I probably would, but there's an argument for CF0 AP1 when the build doesn't require a lot of boons.
It's not like I would personally have issues with either of those pacts at 32, anyway. We're not really talking about you or me but newer players who are at very different skill levels.
undone tartan
Nyaa how come you never went past 51 heat? Just didn’t enjoy 52+ heat pacts?
mossy zinc
I was literally the first person to do 52+, though.
undone tartan
Current patch
mossy zinc
Toffel did 50, so I did 51.
undone tartan
Oh you just wanted to be at the top of the women’s heat leaderboard? (“Under Lady Aphrodite of course”)
mossy zinc
m always at the top. 👸🏽
undone tartan
Hmm
upper stirrup
@mossy zinc well I got to hades but died so was much easier thank you! Never found heart rend 😭😭
upper stirrup
I think I will on my next run but it’s 1am sooooo…better stop but it felt way easier once I got the hang of SD …to think I did 300+ runs and cleared 32 on other weapons lol and never used SD haha
Goes to show how deep this game is
flat flicker
I think I will on my next run but it’s 1am sooooo…better stop but it felt way ea...
indeed. four more heat you can now handle 
mossy zinc
Yeah, LC4 and SD is not an intuitive choice. If not for the community here discussing and sharing strategies, there would not be so many high heat runs using it.
Like 98% or something of the runs on the high heat leaderboard use LC4 and SD now.
When we started figuring out high heat, DDs were way more common than SD.
Then it started being split 50/50.
Now it's just the default everyone uses and taking DDs or anything below LC4 is fringe.
upper stirrup
@flat flicker lol
@mossy zinc that’s crazy and awesome how this community has changed the meta
honest kernel
this community shaped the meta tbh
next wyvern
Hestia feels pretty good
fun wise
much more enjoyable than eris ngl
which hammer people usually use on it?
i guess spread and pierce?
honest kernel
pierce and ricochet
next wyvern
ricochet works on the empowered one?
glass blade
hoary pasture
Cant go wrong with Cluster Rockets either
Targetting System solid hammer aswell imo
cursive portal
rocket>cluster>rico>hazard>piercing>everything else
50 heat fists is being mean to me
undone tartan
which hammer people usually use on it?
Hazard and Ricochet are probably the best two
Or I guess maybe not? I thought it was
cursive portal
clockets are no brainers
undone tartan
Yeah but I’d rather have Hazard + Ricochet/Piercing than Rocket + Ricochet/Piercing
bronze viper
I think I will on my next run but it’s 1am sooooo…better stop but it felt way ea...
Idk if it was specifically mentioned but one of the soft requirements of LC4 with SD is that your bossing is clean. As in you have a reasonable expectation that you can do Furies, Lernie without losing a DD, or Heroes with an Acorn. Dad is a bit different since you can cash in extra DDs there.
This is offset by the fact that you can play massively ignorant in normal rooms and not really get punished
Though re: extra DDs, it's a good practice going forward to make sure you also can consistently do bosses without Patty or DDs, since you won't always have them. If you're on PC, practice saves make this quite a bit easier to work on.
next wyvern
50 heat fists is being mean to me
I cant even do 32 heat fists
cursive portal
bronze viper
just punch them
next wyvern
And i cant see anything
So i just take damage and died
like the flash when you hit an enemy + everything related to Zeus
bronze viper
Something to help with that would be to unteach yourself from always continuing a combo with dash strikes, since you don't get iframes for doing that
It's optimal from a damage perspective but not from a living perspective
undone tartan
Game too fast
Then do FO0
undone tartan
Not if you want to do 32 24
next wyvern
Whut
bronze viper
Long Knuckle goes a long way to not feeling like you're playing Fists
next wyvern
Guns are way easier to get 32
Long knuckles made me feel like i just play knock off guns
undone tartan
32 24. As in, 32 heat on all 24 aspects
next wyvern
Ah
bronze viper
Long knuckles made me feel like i just play knock off guns
Right, it's perf
next wyvern
Well
undone tartan
32 24 is a fun challenge
undone tartan
40 24 is a fun challenge as well, but much harder
undone tartan
?
next wyvern
I cant react fast enough with fist
undone tartan
That doesn’t make any sense
next wyvern
Sometimes cant see Zag because the flash thing when you hit something
bronze viper
Sometimes cant see Zag because the flash thing when you hit something
Hmm, not exactly sure what this is referring to
undone tartan
I don’t really understand what you’re referring to
next wyvern
When you hit an enemy there is a slight yellow flash yes?
bronze viper
Is there? Not that I don't believe you, that is often the type of thing that's easy to overlook for some
Can't test right now
undone tartan
It’s definitely not something that obscures my view
next wyvern
My eyes got too easily distracted by that
undone tartan
If it does exist, which it totally might
bronze viper
Part of playing Malphon is stun locking your primary targets, and playing like a coward until you can do that (or using Demeter to delete problematic enemies)
next wyvern
Because how close and how frequent the attacks are
bronze viper
So the particle effects shouldn't matter a great deal since your main target if you're sticking to them should not be moving
next wyvern
They can be stun lock?
bronze viper
Anything that isn't a miniboss or boss
next wyvern
Hmm
undone tartan
Or armored
bronze viper
Yeah that's a huge part of why Breaching is so good
Besides the 10x damage mod lmao
upper stirrup
@bronze viper Yea I have no problem with first 2 bosses and even third with an acorn don’t typically go through the entire Accorn
bronze viper
Yeah that's great news for switching to SD then
upper stirrup
New to SD hehe 🙃 but it’s fun different play style
bronze viper
remember to lose your SD before picking hearts or Athena
Also remember that you need to have your SD in order to intentionally lose it 🙃
undone tartan
Lol I’ve done that
bronze viper
Yeah it's pretty common lol. Another litmus test for speedrunners vs. heat is respect when going to next rooms in Asphodel. Speedrunners double dash into the neighborhood and spam R1, heat runners traipse so carefully
undone tartan
I’m both, and I always be sprintin
shy gulch
Yeah it's pretty common lol. Another litmus test for speedrunners vs. heat is r...
yeah lmao I noticed this too
it’s a funny little quirk of what part of the game u play
bronze viper
Oh, it's been a while since I played last, congrats on the current anyheat WR 😄
Idk when that happened
shy gulch
oh thank u thank u
it’s been abt a month or two I think
I’m trying to think of other litmus tests
and was gonna say “speedrunners dash into traps a lot for no good reason” before I remembered high heaters do that too
undone tartan
Yep I do that with HS all the time
bronze viper
Yeah that's more of a Hades thing
shy gulch
a universal experience
bronze viper
I notice people who start with speedrunning vs. people who start with heat have just different exitential crises with Barge
When doing the thing they didn't start with lol. Like even when I'm trying to go fast I don't mind barge, but when I see speedrunners dabbling with heat their level of trigger from barges is kind of in their blood
undone tartan
I’m pretty sure my PB yesterday had barge btw
But it was a fast barge because Beowulf
shy gulch
yeah hating barge is like built into our DNA at this point
the sight of that damned boat enrages me like nothing else
hoary pasture
Lol
eternal hare
i haven't seen a survival room in like 10 months
wait jk I did a day of routed anyheat so I can't say that anymore
shy gulch
gottem
bronze viper
What are the rules for it spawning (other than TD0). Any biome, just once per run?
shy gulch
only tart
bronze viper
Or can you route for mono survivals lol
undone tartan
I dislike barge, but seeing a miniboss where I wanted to see a sack? That makes my blood boil 
shy gulch
I dislike barge, but seeing a miniboss where I wanted to see a sack? That makes ...
honestly, fsr sacks bother me less than barge
I think at this point I’ve made my peace with sacks and am still satisfied with a saucy elysium exit
barge though….. I will never make my peace with
shy gulch
ah yeah losing high heat runs to sacks are way worse
bronze viper
I'm okay with 3 sacks. At a particular heat threshold though, a non-miniboss room might take longer than Dad
shy gulch
imo
undone tartan
Either wasting all my time or stealing my Touch of Styx Dark
shy gulch
slogging through all of elysium just to get sacked and lose ur time + touch of styx just got to me
undone tartan
I'm okay with 3 sacks. At a particular heat threshold though, a non-miniboss ro...
At 0 heat they do, at least with a good Beowulf build
undone tartan
slogging through all of elysium just to get sacked and lose ur time + touch of s...
Exactly. It’s so painful. Especially without EM4 where Styx is supposed to be just a victory lap
shy gulch
I’ve died more times to EM3 dad with enough time than I’d like to admit
bronze viper
EM4 changes the way I think about the game. I could have 1000 eHP, perfect build, and 10 minutes on the clock and I'm still going to be living my best monkaS life.
shy gulch
high heat em4 is such a trip
gaunt fiber
Was gonna say I would not be playing but for this fight
shy gulch
I remember doing some 50 heat em4 pacts and got to dad like 4 times in a row and was like “wow this is ez” then I got slapped in the face with a spear and didn’t even make it halfway in phase 2 in all those attempts
gaunt fiber
But it's not like I'm playing anyway 
bronze viper
LOL I remember giving Latt a reality check when he was streaming a 32 heat Nemesis run with EM4. Had perfect ME, 2 DDs, like 300, and he was like, "Ledger, dude, what are you worried aobut? Look at this build, we got this."
I think he got 1 hit into phase 2
bronze viper
I think he said that in reponse to me criticizing that he didn't take the heart chamber for his 3rd room.
eternal hare
superdad demands respect
bronze viper
I’m trying to think of other litmus tests
oo, I thought of another one. With EM3 dad, speedrunners doing heat just... get hit by him. Not out of like, ineptitude, but it's like their learned response. Gotta burn him down, your life total doesn't matter. Likewise heat runners spend a lot of time not getting hit by him if they're speedrunning.
shy gulch
yeah pretty much
bronze viper
Lol, jk, no way in hell can I dodge FO0 dad spins.
shy gulch
we just straight up facetank
gaunt fiber
Tbh it triggers me when runners take unnecessary damage
bronze viper
When I see FO0 dad start up a spin, may as well have used Future Sight in Pokemon. Who knows when that thing gonna come around.
flat flicker
When I see FO0 dad start up a spin, may as well have used Future Sight in Pokemo...
Man i loved that attack as a kid, I was so bad
gaunt fiber
dont watch any of my runs <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
I mean you're the king of speed what can I say
bronze viper
Tbh it triggers me when runners take unnecessary damage
I see Rama speedruns where they start and finish a power shot charge in lava and my soul hurts
It's honestly probably correct but I can't
shy gulch
I see Rama speedruns where they start and finish a power shot charge in lava and...
i dont play rama but ive done this on hera and beowulf sometimes
its never a fun thing to do but sometimes u get caught and its the best solution
undone tartan
I’ve died more times to EM3 dad with enough time than I’d like to admit <:bouldy...
Yeah me too but I like to pretend it’s free
eternal hare
it's always an accident if I'm in lava when I do that
bronze viper
5555510101010101015151515 flashes before my eyes even if it's not happening lol
gaunt fiber
I see Rama speedruns where they start and finish a power shot charge in lava and...
I've seen a Guan Yu runner die twice to magma in the same room
shy gulch
:)
bronze viper
LMFAO
shy gulch
LOL
undone tartan
I remember doing some 50 heat em4 pacts and got to dad like 4 times in a row and...
Yeah when I was grinding for 50 heat, I died to EM4 five times in one day before deciding to just do RI2
bronze viper
I did the opposite for Zag Bow. Tried to do real runs for 50 for a couple of days then did a yolo 50 EM4 RI0 and RNGzeus did me a solid
undone tartan
Although I was playing a seed with chamber 1 charged shot so… kinda my fault
undone tartan
I did the opposite for Zag Bow. Tried to do real runs for 50 for a couple of da...
RNGzeus 
solar maple
wait you were seeding for cshot? lmao
undone tartan
Yeah
What can I say other than “Charged Shot Best Hammer”
Although admittedly, probably not for EM4
solar maple
yeah it's fantastic for roomclear
but I would much rather have no hammer at all for em4
hardy garden
hmm how does charged shot make it harder?
undone tartan
Losing your bullrush i-frames greatly reduces your safety in the fight
bronze viper
Typically, when you release the attack button, your bull rush keeps you invincible the entire time. The exact frame you let go of attack with Charged Shot though, you ded
hardy garden
interesting 
bronze viper
It's honestly probably not even that bad, it's not like every other non-shield doesn't have to do basically the same thing, but it's hard to turn off shield privilege in your head
mossy zinc
oo, I thought of another one. With EM3 dad, speedrunners doing heat just... get...
Lol when I asked cgull for some feedback on a Hera speedrun, he was both praising and criticizing how clean my boss fights were.
unborn fjord
I have two touches of styx and patty is being offered in the next room 
undone tartan
bronze viper
Lol, though I think everyone's had one of those runs where you have 100% DD health, the last enemy in the last chamber dies before you get hit, and you're going into dad with 5 health and no DDs
unborn fjord
not a problem with SD but yeah, moments like that physically hurt me
bronze viper
Nah, it burns with SD too lol, you're still down an entire life bar basically
unborn fjord
I usually just risk it by going into another styx chamber to get the hp back via "sudoku" , not a very good decision when you have TD3 on though
gaunt fiber
When you take the broken spearpoint and the sudoku fails 👌
unborn fjord
👌
undone tartan
How many times does blue lernie slam his head in phase 3? 6? Is it more?
I feel like he just keeps slamming and doesn’t stop
undone tartan
Does that change in phase 3?
unborn fjord
at 66% its 3
gaunt fiber
Yeah it goes from triple ground slam in phase 2 to total bs in phase 3
unborn fjord
blue lernie worst lernie
undone tartan
He just starts slamming and he doesn’t stop
unborn fjord
and they keep on coming and they don't stop coming
undone tartan
WHY CAN HE DO 6??
gaunt fiber
pretty sure I forgot a o or two
undone tartan
Who’s idea was that??
gaunt fiber
Well every head gets their main characteristic emphasized
Guess what blue lernie is a quite the slammer
bronze viper
Ya'll, I suck. I didn't know any of this, I just assumed it was always a double head slam
eternal hare
Just panic meg lernie if needed
unborn fjord
tfw you forget to sudoku before styx and you're stuck with 21 hp
undone tartan
I forgot 
unborn fjord
unborn fjord
is it worth using 3 god keepsakes? won't make a difference now but just wanted to know
gaunt fiber
Ya'll, I suck. I didn't know any of this, I just assumed it was always a double...
It's because we all die before it has time to slam more than 2 times
gaunt fiber
is it worth using 3 god keepsakes? won't make a difference now but just wanted t...
Nah the god pool should by complete by aspho. For Ely you want either damage or something that makes you like, not die
gaunt fiber
gold
unborn fjord
free 415 i guess
bronze viper
is it worth using 3 god keepsakes? won't make a difference now but just wanted t...
I mean, I can imagine situations where this would be something you'd want to do. Like if you're an independent Zagreus who don't need no Acorn for EM3, and you took two damage gods in the first two biomes, with a natural Athena core, and want a DD or something.
solar maple
it's not a terrible choice but generally I will only do 1-2 god keepsakes
main exception for me is an em4 pact where I don't really care about elysium and am just trying to get the best setup possible for dad
sometimes it's worth it there
solar maple
It's honestly probably not even *that* bad, it's not like every other non-shield...
cshot beo is riskier than other cshot shields because the casts eat your i frames
and it takes longer to get a block up
tbh if I needed to do em4 zag shield I would want cshot if I didn't have a busted flat damage build
hardy garden
like from 32 on?
ye
twilit rivet
k thanks
undone tartan
Depends on who you ask. But for the purposes of this channel, 32 yeah
twilit rivet
what's SD again?
unborn fjord
stubborn defiance
twilit rivet
thanks
bronze viper
what is considered "high heat", out of curiosity?
For the purposes of this channel, high heat is whatever you think high heat is. The difference between this channel and builds-and-combat is that this one is mostly focused on managing pact interactions, versus kind of generic mechanics and stuff.
twilit rivet
thanks
upper stirrup
Here’s a silly question but I thought I’d ask. I enjoy discussing games on voice instead of type and especially when pushing higher difficulties. Anyone interested in jumping on voice chat to discuss high heat strats, 32+ heat. 18+ sorry youngsters 😅. Feel free to DM.
trim sigil
undone tartan
Lmao 18+?
upper stirrup
@undone tartan I don’t want to talk to little children sorry 😅
undone tartan
17 year olds are little children confirmed
upper stirrup
Ok let me rephrase…I am 30 it would be weird
solar maple
high heat is when you die putting that much heat on
trim sigil
Considering I have died on 0 heat with rail at some point, I do not like this rating method
upper stirrup
@mossy zinc I’m going to be low heat for a long time then 😭😭😭😭
mossy zinc
Indeed. 👸🏽
undone tartan
It would be pretty cool to beat 52 and beat Nyaa’s PB, and I probably could with enough Beowulf practice and grinding, but I don’t think I really enjoy grinding 50 heat, let alone 52
Especially because I’d probably have to do AP2 for 52
mossy zinc
With Beowulf, huh. Are you aware that I mained Beowulf before anyone else in high heat? 
undone tartan
Oh I have absolutely no doubt that you could go well beyond 51 if you wanted to
undone tartan
And yeah Beo would definitely be my best bet. I definitely have some skill with the weapon, and it’s my new favorite especially since my absurd speedrun PB yesterday
undone tartan
What's stopping it from happening
She’s #1 on the women’s heat leaderboard
I still can’t believe I beat my PB by 45 seconds
That’s so insane, I honestly expected to never get a sub 7
upper stirrup
Is there a ranking anywhere like to see who holds the highest heats?
mossy zinc
What's stopping it from happening
Ball is in @honest kernel's court.
undone tartan
Lol
undone tartan
Nyaa if I did 52 would you do 53 just to barrel roll me?
mossy zinc
I'd probably just play more Street Fighter V tbh. That's what I play when I want to use my brain at all.
undone tartan
Lol fair
upper stirrup
@mossy zinc is there a safe place to talk about songs from the game that isn’t a spoiler area? Like to discuss a fav song from Orpheus?
mossy zinc
Spoilers are allowed pretty much anywhere but in #h1-for-new-players.
upper stirrup
Ohhh
mossy zinc
Don't bypass the swear filter, though.
upper stirrup
Sorry 😢
unborn fjord
eeee I got so close to another 32 clear, then I got greedy and forgot to use call, Hades double spinned and I lost 160 hp
undone tartan
narrow carbon
Yup, Tailesque’s Eris at about 17min (was checking the other day)
eternal hare
Hmm
mossy zinc
What's the context?
unborn fjord
32 heat, Demeter Aspect
mossy zinc
Are you going for Merciful End?
undone tartan
Oh yeah if you’re going for ME then you don’t want CF2 for sure
unborn fjord
I'm going for smoldering air
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3.
undone tartan
Good pact
mossy zinc
I would start from there and do some runs, get some practice in before you make any changes.
Maybe CF1 JS1.
undone tartan
Although DC1/2 honestly might be worth it if you’re struggling with HL5 and you’re starting with C1 Lightning Strike
mossy zinc
I'd probably take JS1 before DC1.
unborn fjord
good pact afaict, I prefer FO2 TD2 over TD3 and UC but I'll give that pact a try
undone tartan
Yeah maybe
mossy zinc
Maybe not. I dunno, I do most of my Malphon runs with JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 lol.
EM3 FO2 is brutal on Malphon.
undone tartan
good pact afaict, I prefer FO2 TD2 over TD3 and UC but I'll give that pact a try
You should definitely do UC at 32 unless you’re doing some ridiculous build that requires a million pieces
mossy zinc
If you do FO2, don't do EM3.
undone tartan
Maybe not. I dunno, I do most of my Malphon runs with JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 lol.
50 heat?
mossy zinc
Any.
undone tartan
You do those just for fun?
unborn fjord
I do JS3 for fun
unborn fjord
I like the feeling of cutting through tons of enemies, just feels satisfying
especially in Tartarus
mossy zinc
A run that times out on JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 with Malphon is not worthy of the Queen of Malphon.
undone tartan
I do too, but JS often just leads to more waves instead of more enemies on screen
Especially in Elysium
unborn fjord
elysium JS3 is a pain in the pooper, i'll give you that
mossy zinc
I think JS1 is fine, but anything above that takes so much longer.
unborn fjord
multiple phases of flame wheels is painful
undone tartan
A run that times out on JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 with Malphon is not worthy of the Queen ...
Well time issues aside, that just doesn’t sound fun
undone tartan
multiple phases of flame wheels is painful
Nah those are fine. It’s a real issue when you get 7+ armored greatshields at once
Yes, that’s a real thing that happens
unborn fjord
Nah those are fine. It’s a real issue when you get 7+ armored greatshields at on...
just use charged shot, best hammer in the game but on any other weapon, 7+ armored greatshields with BP2 is hell
undone tartan
And then those greatshields have savior and the game is over
mossy zinc
I do too, but JS often just leads to more waves instead of more enemies on scree...
Pretty sure they're not more waves, just staggered waves.
undone tartan
just use charged shot, best hammer in the game <:bouldy:523329116934635534> but...
Nah they’re a nightmare with CShot too
mossy zinc
Charged Shot pierces, though.
undone tartan
Unless it’s Beowulf. Then they’re just bad
undone tartan
Charged Shot pierces, though.
Yeah but they have so much health
mossy zinc
Not if you kill them.
undone tartan
Even if you kill them, they have a lot of health
mossy zinc
So get on with it.
undone tartan
So it takes a while to kill them
mossy zinc
Charged-Shot them faster.
undone tartan
mossy zinc
I recommend you change the Bruiser multiplier from 1.5x to 2x if you want to have some Nighty Night fun with Greatshields.
hardy garden
my 32 heat lvl 1 zag rail run was going well
then alecto hit me and my sd didn't proc cuz I forgot to stick darkness in it
mossy zinc
Lv.1 Zag Rail.. more like Lv.1 Zag with Rail.
next acorn
Switch gang
cursive portal
white name in the speedrunning discord gang
pseudo flame
playing with lvl 1 zag rail gun would mean more special and cast more often, right?
pseudo flame
if u got hammer first and the 3 special or 300% special
no need to bother with zag rail attack
pretty nice 😄
hardy garden
you kinda use attack while special is on cooldown anyways
quartz mantle
It happens 😔
unborn fjord
IT HAPPENED AGAIN 
bronze viper
Damn autocorrect
unborn fjord
sadly, I fell into a ravine and lost a lot of blood. the doctors had to transmute the o's into blood using alchemy 
bronze viper
universal donor
unborn fjord
w h y d o e s U C h a t e m e
mossy zinc
I get the impression the feeling is mutual.
unborn fjord
it is, it's very mutual
gaunt fiber
That's quite the story mate
shy plinth
Are you saving rolls for the fountain
unborn fjord
didn't need to in tartarus, gambled too much in asphodel, saved one in ely
shy plinth
Yeah I always save two rolls
Would rather not get the build than get it and lose it tbh
Probably suboptimal but psychologically easier
unborn fjord
I was fortunate enough to get another athena dash, but saving at least one roll for UC is always in the back of my mind now
having to lose a build to purging well hurts more than just not getting it until styx
shy plinth
Yeah my general approach for UC is to know what I'm selling specifically in Tart, make sure I find either a medium hermes boon or a sellable in asphodel, and save rolls for Ely and Styx
flat flicker
I’d say maybe half my rolls go to customs lol
undone tartan
I rarely end up having to roll customs because I end up picking up a lot of trash boons
mossy zinc
@undone tartan as for the difficulty of modded vs unmodded high heat... the idea of modded high heat is that the mods remove unwinnable scenarios, but they also remove some winnable scenarios that are the most difficult in the process.
So the winnable scenarios that remain are easier on average.
next acorn
What winnable senarios does it remove
bronze viper
Winning with subpar boons, hammers, or with 3+ sacks etc.
mossy zinc
Yeah. Unwinnable as in optimal fights and movement given no prior knowledge of encounters and choosing the greatest expected value every time given no prior knowledge of encounters and still losing the run.
So that doesn't include "this seed is winnable if you Cast here 3 times and then at this door 5 times and then..." because there's no way you would know for an unknown seed.
Also not including tool-assisted in optimal fights and movement.
solar maple
lots of my 50 heat clears are on 3 (or 4, occasionally even 5) sacks that made me lose patty buff
those would definitely have been easier on modded, but in no way were they unclearable without mods
honest kernel
modded restores sanity
undone tartan
<@!738544446747967599> as for the difficulty of modded vs unmodded high heat... ...
Yeah that’s a good way to look at it
unborn fjord
can anyone recommend a pact for 32 heat? I tried the pinned pact but it didn't really work out I'm running Rama, by the way
shy plinth
What are you used to running and what heat do you normally clear at
unborn fjord
I usually clear 16-20 heat, I don't really understand the first question
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC DC2 TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
shy plinth
Do you usually run with FO2 or TD3 or LC4 or whatever
The jump from 16-20 to 32 is massive
I'm not sure how many runs you've done on it but I would expect it to be a significant learning curve
unborn fjord
yeah, I get that, I've done 5 32 runs and won 2
shy plinth
So why not keep running that one
It isn't what I'd pick but you cleared twice on it in your first 5 attempts
That seems like it's worth repeating
Also wait no UC???
unborn fjord
no
shy plinth
Going for hard mode I guess
mossy zinc
I mean it's possible to win despite your pact not because of it.
Anyway, the pact I posted should be pretty easy as far as 32 Heat pacts, go.
shy plinth
I think Nyaanyaa's pact is probably the one most people will regularly clear with, I personally run FO2 over 4 ticks of HL and both ticks of DC
But FO2 over HL is not exactly "easier"
By most anecdotal experiences it's more difficult
But if you're used to FO2, it might work better
unborn fjord
I always ran FO2 before joining the community and switching it, I find it easier than HL4+ or TD3
shy plinth
Try HL1 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3 then
mossy zinc
Definitely do DC2 on Rama.
shy plinth
Yeah
It's pretty cheap heat there
If you really don't wanna do TD3 you could do TD2 DC2 HL2
Whenever I see pacts with JS and TD2 I'm surprised
The timer is always harder to hit when you add waves of enemies
unborn fjord
alright, time to give it a try
mossy zinc
I honestly think no matter how much experience you have with FO2, if you think you do better with FO2 than with FO0, you're actually just wrong. Being good at FO2 makes it even easier to not get hit with FO0.
Especially if you're having difficulty with Rama, I don't think you should do FO2 unless you want to take FO2 specifically to practice FO2 for maybe higher heats or something.
If you're losing with Rama, it means you're not getting your Attacks off, which means FO2 is hurting you a lot.
shy plinth
Personally I don't think I do better with FO2, I think I do worse with HL5
honest kernel
at 32 you could prob even ignore attack
shy plinth
But yes you are usually right that FO2 is a huge difficulty spike and there are plenty of other opportunities for technique improvement
honest kernel
but better play the aspect to its fullest
mossy zinc
Personally I don't think I do better with FO2, I think I do worse with HL5
Tbh I think that's because Malphon can be the exception to that. Like, a lot of Malphon players who don't get into very high heats just play super aggressive and get hit a lot no matter what, so FO2 really doesn't make as much of a difference for that playstyle but HL5 does.
mossy zinc
Yeah, I never tell Malphon players to not do FO2 at 32. I only advise against combining EM3 FO2 on Malphon.
shy plinth
But I like punching Theseus in his stupid face
mossy zinc
But he'll run you over while you're doing that.
EM5 = EM3 Theseus but he moves like the other Chariots.
shy plinth
Does he meow?
ripe ermine
Can you bait him into blowing himself up on a column that’d be ok
sand temple
the big chariots, not flamewheels
unborn fjord
is taking chaos still worth it
mossy zinc
BP3 = all Elite Chariots are EM3 Theseus.
mossy zinc
is taking chaos still worth it
Absolutely.
JS4 = all enemies are unarmored Strongbows.
shy plinth
CF3 = Charon fight mandatory
sand temple
make TD not count down in charon fight when
pseudo flame
why would they do that?
mossy zinc
It's viable, it's just that it's kind of... it doesn't save a run that needs saving, and if the run doesn't need saving, then why bother?
honest kernel
does fighting charon skip a room
mossy zinc
Yeah. But the fight takes longer, so...
pseudo flame
It's viable, it's just that it's kind of... it doesn't save a run that needs sav...
Charon fight should usually be at least longer than usual minion fights, right?
mossy zinc
Maybe it could save time in Elysium.
honest kernel
I was thinking maaaybe he could be shorter in elysium
yea
but after shop elysium usually offers miniboss and I want that
pseudo flame
i think asterius or butterfly boss were usually can be done faster than Charon for high heat, right?
mossy zinc
Hmmm. But 300 obols and 20% discount is worth more than a boon.
honest kernel
🤔
pseudo flame
yeah, but just wondering, would it risk ur time if TD3?
even if you're super confident, he has like what, 10 sec total invul during phase change?
mossy zinc
I mean that depends on a lot of factors.
pseudo flame
i guess i only watched a few 50+ heat run, all seems to just skip Charon lol
hardy garden
charon has a big ass health pool, a lot of invul phases, and can do a bunch if damage to you so he isnt really worth it especially in elysium where'd you have your build pretty much done already
pseudo flame
could be nice if max heat 65 Charon became mandatory 😄
sand temple
UC2 - you must sell a loyalty card to leave styx
clever otter
max heat is 64 btw, 63 in normal mode
pseudo flame
i mean, would not mind if Supergiant added an extra heat for that
unborn fjord
going into styx with 32 heat on something other than shield for the first time!
hopefully my TOS doesn't run out
next acorn
on a two sack it will take you to dad
honest kernel
heat runs usually skip charon yea I was just entertaining the thought if he might be worth it
shy plinth
Well done 🙂
unborn fjord
welp, time to do fists 32 heat, wish me luck y'all
hoary pasture
welp, time to do fists 32 heat, wish me luck y'all
Time for some ME cheese
bronze viper
Huh, not too shabby for a first Beo run since I started playing again lol. (mod is seed for Passion Flare). Was supposed to be a yolo run before dinner. Maybe I can get the clear tomorrow. https://imgur.com/a/A10TVxU
(I died very soon afterwards, thanks Cerb, udabest)
bronze viper
"safe" spot not that safe :3
unborn fjord
yikers asterius murdered my run
I was so close to getting off a call and i-framing it
is HL2 LC4 BP2 MM UC EM2 FO2 DC2 TD3 an ok Demeter 32 heat pact?
pseudo flame
ur mirror is SD?
unborn fjord
yes
flat flicker
is HL2 LC4 BP2 MM UC EM2 FO2 DC2 TD3 an ok Demeter 32 heat pact?
I’d do em3 over fo2
unborn fjord
so em3 fo1?
flat flicker
Yes
unborn fjord
alright, thanks
undone tartan
Yeah I agree with Lando
unborn fjord
zeus shield carried me up to elysium on my first try at 40 heat
then the greatshields came
6 of them in a row
undone tartan
Been there
What’s your jury summons at?
Imo you should never exceed JS2 at 40 heat
With Zeus HS is very safe so I’d take that over JS2
quartz mantle
Yea that’s when you just throw your shield out and hold left click and hide
And hope you banked enough time to go slow on them
bronze viper
I'm bad, but yeah I think Zeus on Zeus is kinda poo without Jolted or Splitting Bolt
At that point, Zeus' base damage makes it so that you may as well have Artemis/Aphro
next acorn
Baj, “hold my epic RD”
undone tartan
At that point, Zeus' base damage makes it so that you may as well have Artemis/A...
Nah the AOE is much better
But like yeah it’s not much better than those two
But those two can’t get Jolted and Zeus can
So Zeus is definitely worth it for sure
Also double strike
undone tartan
With AP1, God’s Pride, and CF2, it’s not generally worth taking Zeus into Asphodel just to look for a Zeus core and then Smoldering Air, right? Assuming I already have a call and an Aphrodite core
Better just to take Athena for safety?
bronze viper
Yeah, I don't think it's worth it.
solar maple
really depends
bronze viper
Unless you're playing a build that literally needs Smoldering Air, or if you think you need Smoldering Air
Like if your timer is poo or whatever
solar maple
don't force zeus unless the core you would take itself would be very good in that slot
same with athena tbh
undone tartan
Well divine dash is good for literally every weapon at 50 heat and below imo
I can’t speak for above 50 heat
It’s not always the best option, but it’s always very good
bronze viper
pseudo, if you start Passion Flare on Beo, and you get natural Athena + Zoos core in tart, what do you force in Asphodel? Snow Burst? Jolted/Smoldering Air (no call yet)? Deadly Strike for Heart Rend?
bronze viper
Okay well I was a greed lord and tried for Smoldering Air and didn't get a call lol but I got epic Jolted so that happened to work out
(on Lightning Strike)
I think that 53 would probably have been very trivial with a damage call womp womp
Beo is dumb
solar maple
yeah beo builds call quite fast
bronze viper
is the "MODDED GAME" tag thing new? What actually causes it to come up?
solar maple
that just means you have the speedrun modpack installed
bronze viper
Interesting. As of now I only have the boon selector and the sack mod, but that's disabled
Does it just need to not be in the folder at all for the tag to go away?
solar maple
I'm not entirely sure
bronze viper
k, i'll play around with it. On the off chance i want to record seeded unmodded runs that would be useful. I don't really want to put in the time to do unseeded anymore tbh lol so that seems likely
solar maple
for me it's easier to just only import the boon selector if I just want to do seeded
and yeah I don't really see myself doing ap2 c1 resets
though I never really did do those in the first place
bronze viper
I only ever did for Arty start Rama, since it's 50/50
Which is... tolerable, if not perfect
eternal hare
on the other side of things: people who reset for boon and rarity on ap2
bronze viper
i forgot you can even start with call
bronze viper
yeah even then lol, for some reason just thought you couldn't
solar maple
the way it works is when you roll the game chooses one boon that you can't get again from the first boon screen
then if that boon was going to show up, it instead offers a random eligible boon
that's the only way to get non core boons in c1
bronze viper
on the other side of things: people who reset for boon and rarity on ap2
lmao, I played in EA, I've definitely spent multiple hours resetting for seeds... a lot
I'm so glad that's over
bronze viper
the way it works is when you roll the game chooses one boon that you can't get a...
i assume this logic can't be very slightly tweaked so that the game chooses one of the non-crossed out boons? :3
solar maple
I actually suggested that for the modpack but it didn't catch on
bronze viper
oof, that's frustrating, because it could be done?
solar maple
maybe idk
bronze viper
for sanity I'll just go on assuming it can't
eternal hare
like
solar maple
I don't currently know how to do it, it might be very annoying
eternal hare
do you mean that you want the game to not force you into the same boon after a reroll?
or did you mean something else
solar maple
yeah
bronze viper
yeah
eternal hare
ah
eternal hare
yeah I figure the way it's done now the crossing out is independent of whatever system handles the reroll boon filling
bronze viper
my ap2 fix wish list:
sellable boons for 0g
can't get the same boon offering twice (different rarity but same boon is... probably fine? It's less offensive and super unlikely)
no replacements
eternal hare
which would mean that it wouldn't be a slight tweak as it is a whole new thing in game state that keeps track of what you were offered?
solar maple
yeah I don't know how it works internally or how hard it is to implement
bronze viper
the game already tracks state for the 1 boon it picks to change for sure
solar maple
as I said I would not know how to do it off the top of my head, but the ppl who made the modpack are obviously much better at hades modding than I
bronze viper
So it's not that crazy out of the question
nonsense, you made laser beam bow
pewpew
solar maple
pew
solar maple
we fixed that
bronze viper
wow bowbeam got patches? dope
solar maple
I know the first boon thing very intimately from when I was doing those silly no attack/special/dash/cast runs lol
that's the most I've ever reset in c1
bronze viper
I wasn't exactly optimal about it since I was watching youtube or whatever while I was doing it but I know I spent 2.5 hours looking for a relentless volley -> chamber 2/3 dio in EA for 49 Rama lol.
i wish that was a meme. I still think that build was optimal LOL
solar maple
oh I also did a bunch of c1 resets trying to do the lv 1 gy call build
bronze viper
Jesus Christ %?
I remember Astaos freaking out when I assume a shade decided to move or something and after a reroll on the epic Arty Aid seed he found, 3 different boons were offered.
Which is when we learned that shades can move and do that in the first place :3
solar maple
yeah rolls in c1 and tart midshop are timing dependent lol
Technically that does mean you could have cursed routed strats where you roll just as a trippy shot pops incrementing rng or somethng
solar maple
lots of things do
when the cast pops out, it goes in a random direction which calls rng
and yeah the reason I say trippy is that the cast popping out is delayed long enough that you could time it with the roll
honest kernel
I'm bad, but yeah I think Zeus on Zeus is kinda poo without Jolted or Splitting ...
If we are talking strictly zeus special, it's the highest damaging special for Zeus Shield without counting any supports. Aphrodite gets close, but doesn't double-dip on global damage sources (hello Skull Earring), and doesn't have the chance for Jolted and Splitting Bolt
Also, after some testing, double strike doesn't actually do all that much for the zeus^2 outside of opening up splitting bolt. The extra bolts just run into the internal zeus special cooldown and don't deal damage.
https://gyazo.com/0c8bd3300a8eac159f97447f24d9ec41 Case in point, this was the "Got to Hades" attempt that happened before my actual clear. No jolted, just a fat special. You don't take other pommable boons until you get to like level 4-5, which is usually by Elysium, in which case you can usually invest into HP and/or boons from that point.
Anvil'ed to try to get rid of Charged Shot, got rid of Explosive Return instead
It died to phase 3.
Granted, the Aphrodite Aid helped a ton, but still.
And before anyone suggests Dionysus special, I have quite a few reasons as to why it's a bad idea, which can be resumed to "It gets screwed because of AP2 and other non-cast Dionysus cores, doesn't ramp fast enough for room encounters, gets denied in boss phases, peculiarly Hades himself, and doesn't have much relevant damage support for itself that's reasonable to acquire (Blackout, maybe Bad Influence, that's the extent of it)."
quartz mantle
Also, after some testing, double strike doesn't actually do all that much for th...
That’s actually pretty interesting and good to know thanks for sharing
bronze viper
Lol I don't think anyone was rushing to suggest Dio special. This isn't Eris 🙃
bronze viper
If we are talking strictly zeus special, it's the highest damaging special for Z...
Yeah this makes sense in retrospect. When I wrote that comment out I forgot that Flourish works with very different bases and poms than Strike lol.
Also just memories of me playing and relative effectiveness I felt +/- Jolted. Tbf I was terrible at and still terrible at maintaining high shield damage uptime.
So Jolted was copium.
Very good copium
undone tartan
What pact you using Aqua?
empty agate
um well i change it almost every time to try and see whats best for me
undone tartan
We can help with that
There are many ways to do 32 heat, but many of those ways are much more difficult
empty agate
is there a talking channel in here?
bronze viper
There is. Also you can use this site: https://hadesheat.onrender.com/ to help communicate
To not have walls of letters and numbers for pacts lol. We're used to reading that here but it is kind of objectively an eyesore
empty agate
unholy or ledger would yinz be able to join the talking channel with me and if so which one is it
bronze viper
i can now, got out of a meeting and just rarin' to procrastinate
empty agate
lol
undone tartan
@empty agate as a general rule, avoid the follow pacts at 32 heat no matter what:
Heightened Security, Calisthenics Program, Extreme Measures 4, Routine Inspection, Approval Process
undone tartan
But if you’re struggling with 32 it’s a bad idea
Especially if you’re struggling with Hades
bronze viper
Oh sure it's probably not worth its one heat when you're starting out
empty agate
yeah first 32 i did i got hades and lost
bronze viper
I mean if you did that I don't think you need that much help lol. That's already kind of great
undone tartan
Were you using any of the pacts I just mentioned?
empty agate
i was
undone tartan
Which one?
empty agate
all but the trap damage
undone tartan
Oh my god
bronze viper
all oh my
empty agate
and the starting shield is prob my best weapon
bronze viper
Lol that's not a bad thing, that's amazing! You're probably ready for 40 heat LOL
undone tartan
No wonder you died, you did RIx, APx, CPx, EM4
empty agate
i see posts to use chaos shield but iono
undone tartan
Chaos is the worst shield
empty agate
but then i turn other things on and stuggle during mob fights
undone tartan
Then use Stubborn Defiance and LC4
It’s a very good strategy for 32 heat
It gives you so much more room for error in normal encounters
empty agate
is that the one where you got a revive every room
undone tartan
Yeah
And you pair it with Lasting Consequences 4
Which says you can’t heal at all
But you don’t need to heal because you can restore your health to 30% in every chamber
It takes some getting used to but it gives you much more room for error
If you want to see suggested pacts, you can check the pins in this channel
empty agate
but that only gives me 1 death per boss and going in with 30% seems worse
left prism
athena can still give you 2 DD
undone tartan
You need cleaner bossfights
Oh yeah Athena can give you DDs as well. Which shouldn’t be hard to get pretty consistently with RI0 AP0
empty agate
and they stack? the athena ones as well as the chaos one?
bronze viper
There's a recommended 32 in the stickies here, everyone has their own favorite setup, it also depends on aspect. For shield, something like...https://imgur.com/a/YfKLuxn?
ripe ermine
You do need clean boss fights, but buying hearts before lernie or Meg can help, Patty gives you 80% revival
empty agate
patty?
left prism
tl;dr if you lost your SD then pick up any of the "restore a DD" boons you gain a dd then next room you get your sd back
undone tartan
Touch of Styx Dark is one of the strongest things in the entire game
empty agate
3 hard labor? i wont make it past the 5th room lol
hoary pasture
There's a recommended 32 in the stickies here, everyone has their own favorite s...
That doesn't look too fun for someone just starting to do 32 heat lol
undone tartan
There's a recommended 32 in the stickies here, everyone has their own favorite s...
TD2
And Hs
I don’t like that pact
And FO2 EM3?
That’s a pretty hard pact
undone tartan
Still
hoary pasture
You can tone it down a bit
undone tartan
I don’t suggest that
empty agate
yeah 3 hard labor, bulland king buffed, i wont make it far at all
ripe ermine
And yeah Athena: get a core boon from her. Next room reward, die before picking up the boon (traps/lava help), then if you get a Defiance boon, it’s an extra life
hoary pasture
Well it's not that bad
undone tartan
Aqua are you using Dark Foresight in the mirror?
undone tartan
shy plinth
Unlike Kermit the frog, in Hades, it's easy being green
undone tartan
Definitely use Fated Persuasion and Dark Foresight
I also highly suggest Family Favorite
bronze viper
TD2 <:dusa:522248771409543188>
I kind of maintain that if TD2 is unteneble in general than 32 might be a bad idea. It's 28 minutes. Unless you meant for TD3, but that's also unreasonable. I was definitely able to do 32 heat before consistently being able to do sub 20 minute runs. especially on slow aspects like Chaos.
undone tartan
And obviously Stubborn Defiance if you’re doing LC4
undone tartan
I kind of maintain that if TD2 is unteneble in general than 32 might be a bad id...
No I meant TD3 is a better idea
empty agate
how do i used fated persu
hoary pasture
It's the last upgrade
bronze viper
(second sentence of my post lol)
empty agate
"its 28 minutes"
undone tartan
I found TD3 to be pretty easy after just a few runs with it
ripe ermine
On the boon/well/purging pool you’ll have an option to “reroll” for different boons/goodies
empty agate
ok so its like the other one but only inside when you pick
bronze viper
Whoops, thought that was a comma. 3rd+ :3
undone tartan
It’s way way better to reroll boons than reroll doors
empty agate
so DF and FP are the two i have on green now
mossy zinc
You got to Hades before, just do that again and win this time.
left prism
fated persuasion on top of consistency also makes sure UC doesnt decides to hate on you and make you sell core parts of your builds
well not make sure, but helps
undone tartan
I’d rather have one persuasion reroll than ten authority rerolls (if I have the upgrade where keys give me rolls)
shy plinth
At 32 you'll commonly see Stubborn Defiance, Family Favorite, Dark Foresight, and Fated Persuasion
bronze viper
You got to Hades before, just do that again and win this time. <:dusa:5222487714...
Yeah honestly to what I said in the beginning, if you got to Hades on your cracked pact before you really don't need that much advice lol, just move points from RI into like... anything else, and don't do EM4
hoary pasture
fated persuasion on top of consistency also makes sure UC doesnt decides to hate...
inb4 you only have 3 boons and you need all 3
empty agate
im noob at this, i have 300 some runs. the problem is all my weapons i cant make past 5 heat, sheild is 20 heat complete going for 32
ripe ermine
Practice dot gif
empty agate
prob 50 attaempts at 32 heat and i made it my first time and never again, havnt made it past bull/king
ripe ermine
32 is tricky but you’ll crack it
empty agate
dot gif?
undone tartan
At 32 you'll commonly see Stubborn Defiance, Family Favorite, Dark Foresight, an...
And sometimes Fiery Presence depending on the weapon. And God’s Legacy on a few weapons
empty agate
shield is all ill use for 32 since i am poo with everything else
ripe ermine
Stick with what you know, that’s totally ok.
Harder to try to learn a new aspect on top of managing 32 Heat
empty agate
i cant get bow past 4, gun i only win with the 300% bomb
mossy zinc
m getting a headache.
undone tartan
Shield is really good, don’t worry
empty agate
ok so nothing else on the mirror to change then, im ganna have to keep my 3 DDs
undone tartan
Ehh
I’d do SD
Here, try this pact
If you’re more comfortable, you can do FO2 and HL0
Or CF2 HL5 FO0
empty agate
kinda not understanding all the abbreviations
undone tartan
I’m one of the only people who suggest splitting heat between the two
bronze viper
Here, try this pact
Lmao EM3 FO1 HL3 is not appreciably different than what I recommended
undone tartan
Yes it is
ripe ermine
kinda not understanding all the abbreviations
They’re in the pins
empty agate
i try to keep boss pact at 2, and sometimes thats hard
undone tartan
Imo the difference between FO1 and FO2 is massive
empty agate
not sure how to do pins, i only got discord recently
mossy zinc
bronze viper
There's a thumb tack icon in the top of the screen
ripe ermine
This post #h1-high-heat-strategies message
undone tartan
i try to keep boss pact at 2, and sometimes thats hard
Then do Forced Overtime 2 and Extreme Measures 2
If you’re not comfortable with EM3, you don’t have to do it
empty agate
so whats dark forsight do, the gold banner, the green thing, i can get mroe than 2 hammers a game?
undone tartan
No
bronze viper
Idk what you mean by gold banner or green thing
empty agate
it says it gives you more of them
undone tartan
Gold laurels are rewards like boons and poms and gold and hearts
undone tartan
Odds for gold laurels without Dark Foresight: 50%
Odds for gold laurels with Dark Foresight: 70%
bronze viper
Dark Foresight skews the normal 50/50 into 30/70 in favor of Gold
shy plinth
It gives you 6 more rooms per run that will boost your build
bronze viper
The only downside is that you get like... 1.5 keys per run naturally
empty agate
yes thats the problem i was having wa s bearly any boons at higher runs
undone tartan
Yeah Dark Foresight is insanely good
ripe ermine
Haha solved
undone tartan
It’s very hard for me to play without it now tbh
empty agate
ok so i bet this will help alot
shy plinth
A lot of people push 32 for the first time with really rough heat options