h1-high-heat-strategies

[mossy zinc]

Boiling Blood would effectively be 80% more damage if you had HL1, yes.

[next acorn]

Interesting

[karmic sinew]

i need motivation i just gotten to redacted with super nice build and then i lost

help

this is the only moment i am frustrated about in this game

at least i mocked theseus i guess

[flat flicker]

If this is early game, prob better to use hades discussion thread

[karmic sinew]

32 heat

if it wasn't for 32 heat i wouldn't post here

but this is seriously infuriating and alienating me

i don't know what to switch em4 for

because td3 always kills me

is it safe to pick js3 on td2?

[honest kernel]

yeeah should be

but if you die to td3 you arent clearing rooms as fast

so it might be an issue

[flat flicker]

My bad, figured with the redacted that was a possibility. Check the pins for some loadout ideas and also highly recommend doing some easier TD3 runs first to get used to it

[honest kernel]

em4 is super hard

[karmic sinew]

ok

[honest kernel]

so theres many alternatives

[karmic sinew]

i think fo2 hades might not be a problem

[honest kernel]

fo2 is nice once ur used to it

[karmic sinew]

say, what if i switched em4 to js3 and lc1? is it good?

with td2

[honest kernel]

you can certainly try

[karmic sinew]

hmm ok

maybe next time

i used all my rngesus luck today

[honest kernel]

are you doing bp2

[karmic sinew]

yes

[honest kernel]

js3 can cost you a lot of time then

in bad cases

[karmic sinew]

key word, bad cases

not always early in tartarus

at least i would constantly get to elysium every time and not just use my dds on tartarus

[honest kernel]

I'd just do max lc4 and live with it

[karmic sinew]

well, let's hope i do not need stubborn defiance

i barely completed the prophecy of escaping with all mirror talents at least once

[mossy zinc]

If you're struggling with TD3, you're gonna struggle with JS3 TD2, except rooms are also gonna be a lot harder with so many more enemies.

[karmic sinew]

oof

bad

[honest kernel]

like whats your weapon

[karmic sinew]

i am pretty near to screwing 32 heat run off

[karmic sinew]

eris rail

[mossy zinc]

Reason we always recommend TD3 is that it's easier to learn to go fast than to survive more difficult encounters.

[sand temple]

I wouldn't imagine JS would be too bad with eris

[mossy zinc]

I mean, neither is TD3.

Eris is the aspect most people get their first good clear times with because it's so simple but effective.

[flat flicker]

@karmic sinew try doing a few with lc4 stubborn, td3 fo2 and nothing else

train yourself for the harder stuff

That’s what worked for me

[mossy zinc]

Like it was completely dominating the speedrun meta for most of Hades's time since 1.0 came out.

[karmic sinew]

oh

so that's the question of git gud i guess

[flat flicker]

I mean I don’t think “git gud” is helpful

I was trying to give you a tool to use to help u get there

[karmic sinew]

well, do i practice it on eris rail? or some different weapons

[flat flicker]

Whatever you’re attempting to do 32 with

[mossy zinc]

On Eris if you're planning to use Eris.

[karmic sinew]

ok

[flat flicker]

Eris is a great choice

[honest kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624635342116618243/888150448593322014/unknown.png

[sand temple]

not the LC0 pact

why

[honest kernel]

you could try this

[mossy zinc]

HL5 FO2.

[karmic sinew]

um, what?

[honest kernel]

whats the problem?

[karmic sinew]

i rly hope this is sarcasm

[honest kernel]

no?

[jaunty falcon]

What build are you aiming with on Eris

[sand temple]

why would you ever use LC0

[karmic sinew]

zeus + poseidon

[sand temple]

we are trying to get rid of EM4 not LC

[honest kernel]

they asked for lc0, td2 and no js

[jaunty falcon]

Alright good

[honest kernel]

and that is what I think works

[karmic sinew]

also what keepsake should i use outside of god forcing ones?

i use cerberus's keepsake

yes cringe

[honest kernel]

cringe

[karmic sinew]

i knew it

[sand temple]

acorn, tooth and maybe hourglass

[honest kernel]

acorn for the hades fight is great

[karmic sinew]

so acorn lets me facetank some boss hits, right?

[honest kernel]

yea

[karmic sinew]

ok i heard

also will try to git gud with td3

[sand temple]

coin purse or pom blossom is also an option in the earlier biomes if you feel confident without forcing a specific god

[karmic sinew]

because free heat

[honest kernel]

I wouldn't facetank tho just as insurance

[karmic sinew]

yeah of course, i wouldn't too

why would i

i am not playing very good but i am not braindead, right?

[honest kernel]

I mean facetanking can be a real strat with high dps

[karmic sinew]

and if you have cursed slash

i know

i watched reddit

[honest kernel]

cursed slash is a joke

[karmic sinew]

that's because it isn't usable on high heat?

just my guess

[honest kernel]

it depletes your hp and it doesnt work on dash strikes which is btw the main combo on sword

[karmic sinew]

mmm ok

[honest kernel]

but yeah facetanking w it can work on low heat I guess

[karmic sinew]

ok

not that i am going to use sword for 32 heat anytime soon

because it is horrible

for 32 heat i mean

it is good for everything but 32 heat

[honest kernel]

sword is pretty rough yea

arthur is ok

[karmic sinew]

maybe that's because i'm using zag

[honest kernel]

zag is a joke

[mossy zinc]

Just high DPS, not Cursed Slash lol.

[karmic sinew]

or that

[karmic sinew]

everything i use is a joke at this point i guess, right

[mossy zinc]

I mean it can make for entertaining builds, but it's not practical at high heat really.

[honest kernel]

nah I mean

[mossy zinc]

Cursed Slash, I mean.

[karmic sinew]

ok i heard you

[honest kernel]

you have the right idea about how to approach 32

its just hard

[karmic sinew]

and i am horrible at it

[mossy zinc]

I mean yeah until you get better, that's kind of the same for everyone when they try it for the first time.

[karmic sinew]

mmm ok

[karmic sinew]

for the first time i kinda fluked to redacted, then can't escape elysium for 15 runs, that's the "kind of same"?

[mossy zinc]

Pretty much.

[honest kernel]

yea

[karmic sinew]

that's the strange kind of same

[karmic sinew]

oh i thought i was the only one

[honest kernel]

no it took me a lot of tries to get it done

and some runs dont make it far bc bad rng or early deaths to whatever

[karmic sinew]

there are just so many of those "I COMPLETED 32 HEAT!1!!!!!!11!" chads on reddit

[sand temple]

that doesn't mean they find it easy

[karmic sinew]

i will be the one of them later and i hate it

[mossy zinc]

There are some strategies that can carry you to some extent, which are the strats that we usually recommend for new players... who are almost always afraid of TD3 but end up taking it more often than not at the end, which makes their life at 32 a lot easier.

But at the end of the day, it's gonna take practice, practice, practice.

[honest kernel]

this whole channel is dedicated to us chads....however it will never be easy

[sand temple]

most people struggle on 32 heat

[jaunty falcon]

I'd say everyone does at first

[karmic sinew]

ok ok

practice it is then

maybe will yoink all bounties in the process

why not

the quesiton is should i practice forced overtime too?

or not?

[sand temple]

well I can't say everyone struggles because I did it second try and I have seen other people do it in a similarly small number of attempts

but definitely most

[karmic sinew]

mmm ok

[karmic sinew]

i wonder about this tho

i think yes

[mossy zinc]

I mean.

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah probs

[mossy zinc]

Practice never hurts.

[karmic sinew]

ok

[flat flicker]

Yes

[karmic sinew]

that will help me yoinking the bounties

because that's boring

[mossy zinc]

Let's put it this way: if there's no risk of you losing the run, you're probably not getting much good practice out of it.

Unless you keep pushing for new PB times.

[karmic sinew]

mmm

ok

that will take uncomprehensibly long time

[mossy zinc]

It shouldn't be so hard that you have no chance, but you don't want to remain in your comfort zone, either.

Gotta push yourself just outside of your comfort zone, pretty much.

[karmic sinew]

i will try

and maybe choosing harder pacts

also it seems that on low heat i usually get all the luck possible

and on high heat no luck

is this with everyone?

[honest kernel]

unless you take pacts that mess with your luck, no

[mossy zinc]

EM2 FO2 is a standard speedrun pact. If you add TD3 to that, you'll have the same timer as you'd take at 32 Heat to feel more comfortable with that. That's always a good pact for practice.

[honest kernel]

like ap or ri

[mossy zinc]

So... EM2 FO2 TD3.

And get to a point where you can beat that consistently without timing out.

With Eris, I think a good time to shoot for is 15:00. If you can do that, 32 shouldn't be too difficult.

https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/

And familiarize yourself with that guide to know what boons are strong and stuff. Helps you get stronger builds more consistently and how to set up your mirror and stuff.

[flat flicker]

The higher the heat, the more it’s about making what you get work lol

[jaunty falcon]

Yep

This is especially true as you get close to 50

Sometimes you've got to beat EM4 with a rare frost strike and a level 5 heavens vengeance

[karmic sinew]

no no no not 50

i would not go to 50

32 is enough

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah I know you're doing 32

[karmic sinew]

but why not

[jaunty falcon]

What I'm saying applies to 50

[karmic sinew]

ok

[karmic sinew]

hmm ok

[karmic sinew]

thx

[polar goblet]

High heat strats for Gilgamesh?

Or Arthur but I like Gilgamesh more

[full fossil]

make sure to switch to Ruthless Reflex since you'll still have 3 dashes

[quartz mantle]

I think the general strat for Gilga is to not play the aspect as much as you can

ie: build into Smoldering

[polar goblet]

What if my mirror of night works for me

[quartz mantle]

Splash Dash Start is solid

You can do whatever with your mirror but you asked for strats and the general strat with GIlga is to use Ruthless

[polar goblet]

Oooo yes I like posideon dash

Storm waves <3

[quartz mantle]

4 dashes vs 3 dashes with 50% extra damage and dodge chance are your options

[thorny veldt]

I’m so close to the sub 10 I can feel it...

[polar goblet]

Gods legacy or…

[quartz mantle]

It's personal choice

[polar goblet]

I guess that really depends on luck actually

[quartz mantle]

I prefer Pride

Makes your core boons better

[polar goblet]

[quartz mantle]

plus better Chaos and Hermes boons

since their legendaries are like alright at best

[polar goblet]

I usually avoid chaos if I can

[quartz mantle]

Yea you can, it's just typically the risk reward can be heavily skewed in your favor

[polar goblet]

I also avoid troves and Erebus

[quartz mantle]

Like imagine you were running gilga and you got a chaos boon that damaged you when you used a cast but gave you like 70 extra health or something

Troves aren't worth with Tight Deadline and Erebus can be worth it occasionally

Chaos also gives you a free room where you don't have to fight enemies

[polar goblet]

Cast is not the star of the show in Gilgamesh

Imo

[quartz mantle]

plus the damage doesn't really matter with SD

I know

[full fossil]

that's what hes saying

[polar goblet]

It’s the weapon itself

[quartz mantle]

that's what I'm saying

[polar goblet]

Oh

[mossy zinc]

Just that Greatest Reflex on Gilgamesh is not even that good. You have... more bad dashes.

[polar goblet]

I’m dumb

[hardy garden]

erebus gates before end region shops are free aint they

well except for time

[quartz mantle]

Time is the whole reason they're not free

[polar goblet]

I assume don’t fight Charon

[quartz mantle]

if you're playing for the reward you might play slower but if you get a super elite to spawn it can be really fast with using a summon

[hardy garden]

well you aint skipping another room if before end region at least

[quartz mantle]

It's also extending the region and adding another room for you to fight

[polar goblet]

Yeah it’s two bossfights instead of one?

[mossy zinc]

If you're good on time, take them. Especially if you want a better choice before the boss fight.

[polar goblet]

And for what

[quartz mantle]

Charon is usually not worth with TD3

[mossy zinc]

Like if it's boss shop and a boon you don't want or an Infernal Gate, take the Gate and you'll see new choices after that. Might be a god you want.

[quartz mantle]

I'll usually take Erebus health in Tart, or a god I want in my pool

[mossy zinc]

That's assuming you're confident in Erebus, but I assume you wouldn't be asking if you weren't.

[hardy garden]

also charon may or may not two shot you at high heat

[mossy zinc]

At least he won't take all your DDs because you don't have any.

[mossy zinc]

But but but.

You get a membership card for your whoooole life.

(It's a short life.)

[polar goblet]

I forgot I was doing heat 18 Arthur

Oops

[quartz mantle]

I guess if you have a stacked build by Aspho midshop you could try but like

idk that seems pretty heavy on time unless you're using something like Beo and you have Mirage Shot already

[polar goblet]

Oh god champions time too

[quartz mantle]

gl

[polar goblet]

Extreme measures three

[hardy garden]

smh do you have hl5 and fo2 tho

[quartz mantle]

HL5 EM3 Theseus just hits you for 100 damage lol

[polar goblet]

EASY

Annnnnd I dont have lucky tooth for Styx

Well

This is fine

[hardy garden]

just use acorn

[mossy zinc]

Acorn is better anyway for Hades.

Well.

Better for Zagreus, worse for Hades.

[polar goblet]

UNSHAKABLE METTLE

Thank you posideon

[hardy garden]

aint that kinda bad

[mossy zinc]

Unshakable Mettle is really good.

There's no world in which negating all stun in an action game is ever bad.

[hardy garden]

getting stuck by a pot kinda sucks

[polar goblet]

Found the sack

[mossy zinc]

It's not just the stun from pots. It's all hitstun from any hits you take.

[polar goblet]

278/394 hp, one dd

Let’s do this

[mossy zinc]

You should have plenty of eHP going into the fight. Easy peasy.

[hardy garden]

without em4, acorn usually carries through most of the hades fight for me though

[mossy zinc]

That's good.

[polar goblet]

2nd phase

[mossy zinc]

Doesn't mean a failsafe like Unshakable Mettle is bad, though.

[polar goblet]

EASY

33 hp one dd left

Easy as hell man

[mossy zinc]

Hell man is easy?

[polar goblet]

Kek

[hardy garden]

now do it on 32 heat

[polar goblet]

I just did 18

How am i supposed to get to 32 that fast

[mossy zinc]

You just dash through the House of Hades really fast to get to the courtyard.

[hardy garden]

and stack on them modifiers quickly

[full fossil]

its not really worth playing every heat from 20-32

[mossy zinc]

Yeah. Without looking at the pacts, just random ones until you see the number hit 32 or higher.

And then you win real quick.

Like.

Sub 15:55 RTA.

[polar goblet]

Privileged status

Or the other one

[mossy zinc]

Win Skelly's prize and the 32 RTA WR in one go.

[hardy garden]

depends on the build

[mossy zinc]

You wanted to use Gilgamesh, right? Family Favorite then.

[polar goblet]

So rng based though

Hrrng

[mossy zinc]

Quite the opposite.

Family Favorite is consistent.

You'll get a pool of four gods in your run + Lord Hermes. That's +25%.

[polar goblet]

Anyway

Extreme measures three

[mossy zinc]

Privileged Status is +40% only some of the time and only if you actually get two status curses in the first place.

[polar goblet]

Damage control two

Should be ez

[mossy zinc]

HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3

I recommend you start off with that pact.

Stubborn Defiance from the mirror.

For Gilgamesh I'd say...

Shadow Presence
doesn't matter
Stubborn Defiance
Ruthless Reflex
Boiling Blood
Infernal Soul
Deep Pockets
Thick Skin
Family Favorite
Dark Foresight
whichever you prefer
Fated Persuasion

Actually, probably Fiery Presence just to speed up early Tartarus. Probably doesn't matter too much anyway.

[jaunty falcon]

For Gilgamesh I'd probably start tidal dash in chamber 1

Unless you're wanting to do merciful end

[mossy zinc]

Blood-Filled Vial in Tartarus for Curse of Agony, then Owl Pendant in Asphodel.

ME should be stronger at 32.

It's still consistent enough at 32.

And having Lady Athena in the pool means you get DDs from her.

But Tidal Dash isn't a bad strat, of course.

[polar goblet]

Shattered shackle

[mossy zinc]

Sure if you want to make things harder.

Shackle start is a strat for AP2 pacts when you can't guarantee you get an Attack boon or whatever your aspect needs at all.

[polar goblet]

Bye Tisiphone

[mossy zinc]

And you might end up having to carry it all the way through the run if you don't get any decent Attack, which is very possible. Which means you don't get to take Acorn vs Hades unless you want to give up your DPS.

Also why AP2 is typically ill advised.. especially in combination with any RI.

[polar goblet]

Nah I just used it for Tartarus

[mossy zinc]

Right.

Like I said, not really a good strat if you're not doing AP2.

[jaunty falcon]

I guess it's fairly likely that you'll get either Ares, Athena or Poseidon in Tartarus so you can pivot accordingly

[polar goblet]

SUPPORT FIRE

[mossy zinc]

Since you're giving up control over the core of your build for a temporary bonus in Tartarus.

[polar goblet]

LETS GO

Thanatos

[flat flicker]

36 heat beo with mirage, 80p from chaos, and epic snow burst

[polar goblet]

Lernie time

Easy

[polar goblet]

Hades time

Done

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations!

Now do 40.

[trim sage]

is lernie the lernean bone hydra?

[polar goblet]

Yes

[trim sage]

ok

[polar goblet]

[mossy zinc]

.

[full fossil]

lol did you just beat 32 on your first try?

[flat flicker]

man beowulf is super based

36

with em4

Thanks to all the beowulf players in here

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, it's just been getting more and more popular since 1.0 release lol. Was already one of the most popular aspects for high heat then.

[flat flicker]

Literally just remapping the controller

then doing a few to get comfortable

Now for 40…I assume dc bad for beo?

Trying to figure out what to add to my pact to get 40

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/888191602898661436/image0.jpg

[next acorn]

could prob just do the rest of HL

[flat flicker]

Em4 hl5 scary

But yeah

[next acorn]

AP1 if your too scared of that

[flat flicker]

Word

[next acorn]

just could be pain for mirage

[flat flicker]

True

[next acorn]

if your scared of EM4 definitely not HS

[flat flicker]

Yeah, I mean I def won by hitting harder but I got hit a lot lol

Used all my defiance and Athena defiance

[next acorn]

EM4 just takes practice

even with Beo

[flat flicker]

Yeah, maybe I’ll do a few more 32 em4s

[mossy zinc]

HS is fine. You might die occasionally because of it, but more often than not you're not stepping on urns anyway.

Take a level or two of JS. That doesn't affect your EM4 fight or your build and shouldn't be much of an issue for Beowulf.

[flat flicker]

Word

I didn’t get mirage and died horribly but oh well

I got this

Went with js2 hl3

[bronze rapids]

• LC4 AP2
• gets After Party
• Rare Crop hits it

at least it showed up in UC

[next acorn]

Rip

[bronze rapids]

Got Demeter in my pool, awaiting being forced Nourished Soul

jk got smacked by Lernie

[undone tartan]

Lost another run to a 5-sack

I still hold that sack RNG is literally the single biggest problem with this game

And no I can’t mod I’m on switch

It also didn’t help that I was playing Merciful End and had 5 Ares boons and 5 Athena boons but no ME

But I still would have beat Hades if I had more than 30 seconds for the entire fight

[thorny veldt]

Eyo switch gang

My problem is I just suck

[undone tartan]

That’s not even counting Dire Misfortune which I sold 3 times

It really makes me want to quit the game when I’m doing great and RNG decides for me that I’m not gonna win. Like literally I have to convince myself not to delete the game every time it happens

[thorny veldt]

:c

[undone tartan]

And yes, I know “that’s part of the risk with TD3” but are you really gonna do a 40 heat run with AP1 CP1 TD2 on ME Zag fists?? No. You’re not. So if part of the challenge of TD3 is that RNG just ends some of your runs, that doesn’t mean you have to defend it because we both know that it’s stupid

[vital grove]

Get Athena legendary

Time runs out, no problem just dont lose bubble

Cosmic brain strats

[undone tartan]

I almost did

Because the game refused to give me ME

I had most of Athena’s boons

[ashen garnet]

Isn't Hades fight technically not in the underworld anymore, so TD should only matter to find the sack in the Styx region ?

[undone tartan]

No

Because that’s just not how TD works

[ashen garnet]

Thought about F10-ing it a bunch of times, sack RNG is so frustrating

[mossy zinc]

See, I disagree with the premise that RNG is the reason you timed out.

[undone tartan]

It’s not a glitch

[undone tartan]

You think I timed out because I picked TD3. But however you look at it, you can’t really not take TD3 there

[mossy zinc]

I think you timed out because you made a lot of mistakes that cost you time.

[undone tartan]

Just don’t say I timed out because I didn’t play fast because I played so fast for a ME build without ME

[undone tartan]

I don’t think I did

You’re telling me that you can beat a 5-sack TD3 (40 heat) with Zag fists where your doom is doing like 180 damage every 1.5 seconds? My damage was atrocious

I did my best to get my damage up

But in the end ME didn’t show up

[mossy zinc]

I can beat a TD3 5-sack with Curse of Agony on Zag Fists, yeah.

[undone tartan]

It had 8ish opportunities to, including 3 bossfights and 3 rooms with Eurydice nectar. I never rolled a boon more than once. I just didn’t get it

[mossy zinc]

You're asking somebody who does JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 whenever she plays Malphon at high heat simply out of pride as Queen of Malphon.

[undone tartan]

Alright fine but I don’t feel like it’s fair to blame me for that

I got close

I played as fast as I could

[mossy zinc]

It's not about who's to blame but about identifying the cause so that you can work on the solution to your problem.

[undone tartan]

The problem is that TD3 + 5-sack is a dead run unless you’re one of the best players or have a very fast build

[mossy zinc]

If you don't know how you could have been faster, maybe try to improve your times with the aspect or look at some other runs.

[undone tartan]

If I was good enough to beat TD3 5-sacks at 40 heat, then I would be good enough to beat higher heats

[mossy zinc]

Sounds like a goal to work towards, then.

[undone tartan]

The fact of 5-sacks is that if my heat is low enough that I can beat them on time, then I need to increase the heat so that I can’t

Nah, I’m doing fun runs for the next few days. I’m sick of getting screwed by 5-sacks

[mossy zinc]

Well, fun runs can include trying to work on your average times with an aspect with a normal speedrun pact.

[undone tartan]

Do you believe that a 5-sack is beatable at any heat? If Tailesque runs out of time on a 60 heat Rama run due to a 5-sack, do you say “yeah man should have played faster, can’t really blame that one on RNG”

[mossy zinc]

I think you're overestimating how much better you need to be, though. If you can just save a couple of seconds every encounter, that goes a very long way.

[mossy zinc]

At 60, there are definitely unwinnable runs due to TD3 in combination with all the other pacts.

You're not doing 60, though.

[undone tartan]

Alright

[mossy zinc]

I mainly just want to help you maintain a mindset of always first looking at where your strategies, tactics, and execution failed you and how to address that instead of being frustrated with RNG.

Perhaps a more consistent strategy than ME would do the trick for you.

So that's something you could look into.

Or when you have Curse of Agony and no ME, how can you use it more efficiently to clear encounters?

Are there tools that the aspect has that you're not using? Maybe it's time to find an application for them.

[undone tartan]

Sure, there’s all of that. I get it.
But the fact is, if I had gotten a 2 or 3 sack, I would not have timed out. This is just a fact. And it feels bad.

[mossy zinc]

Are you using efficient tactics for this type of enemy or are there ways to save time? Are you dodging them first and attacking second? Are there ways to combine the two into one step?

[undone tartan]

I had stubborn defiance so I was damage tanking every Styx room

[mossy zinc]

Are you losing time looking for enemies in any chambers? Have you looked at spawn points and ways to efficiently manipulate the spawns there to prevent that?

[ripe ermine]

ME where you don’t get ME can be fast-ish but you might look at other builds. Like for Zag fists I reckon Zeus attack plus a tasty jolted and a decent call would be plenty fast and probably easier to put together than ME

[undone tartan]

Maybe, but it feels a lot weaker. I’m okay with losing runs to not getting ME knowing that when I get it I’ll win

[spice lava]

Which aspect?

[undone tartan]

Zag fists 40 heat

[honest kernel]

I kept trying to go for ME with those and eventually just got rip current and won w that lol

I never actually played ME fists it never wants to give me ME when I try

[solemn pulsar]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1125263066?t=1447s

Do plume build

Em4 free (time stamped)

Just get epic second wind and greater evasion

[undone tartan]

I think ME is easier to get

[solemn pulsar]

This was more fun though

[undone tartan]

I can definitely do it pretty easily if I get ME (I would have won that one without ME if I’d gotten a 2 or 3 sack)

[spice lava]

Greater evasion is good but passive + charged plume can do the job with RR

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/884477934440706168/unknown.png

I mean it's not a dead end if you don't find Greater Evasion

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/884200548549689365/unknown.png

But Plume will obviously be weaker if you don't pick it up from the start

[honest kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624635342116618243/848121924160978954/unknown.png

plume fists r pretty fun

but Id idnt do em,4 screw that

[spice lava]

I still have unfinished business with 50 Heat Plume EM3 👀

[gaunt fiber]

The regular jolted build does not feel that weak

Unless you don't get a damage dash

[undone tartan]

But if I play fists without divine dash then I’ll get hit a ton. I did tidal dash for my 40 heat Demeter run, but it was kinda rough

[spice lava]

You can see from our victory screens that me and Toffel are able to play without Divine Dash. Ofc we probably have more experience but if you know the patterns and Plume is charged enough, the dodge becomes really solid defense even if we still need to pay attention during fights

From my own gameplay it's easier for me to build DPS with effect boons on atk/dash to activate PS than trying to get ME

If one day you have some footage of your attempts, feel free to share and see if we can help you more on your 40 heat Malphon project

[ashen garnet]

Plume fists believers So proud

[honest kernel]

epic reflex may have helped

[solemn pulsar]

oh i was mostly joking

with all that stuff i hit 98.5% dodge

literally couldn't get hit during EM4 with second wind up

[honest kernel]

[solemn pulsar]

athena call too

the video is hilarious

i get hit once because i forgot to reup second wind because it's all just too ridiculous

[honest kernel]

I think plume fist can be a pretty legit cheese but a lot has to go right

like getting real boons...

[solemn pulsar]

yeah you just need one decent damage source in tartarus

[honest kernel]

its better to do a real build

[solemn pulsar]

and PS online by lernie

and you're fine

you can do a "real build" for plume, just get the main god you want in tartarus

wont take too many tries to reset for a decent tartarus at 32/40

[honest kernel]

true but then youre not a true plume player

[solemn pulsar]

i dont mean literally reset for zeus start

more like just play them out, and you'll get a decent build soon enough

[mossy zinc]

It's honestly not too hard to get dodge chance that high. Like it's not consistent tbh, but it's less than a handful of runs to get dodge chance that high, and then it's gonna be very hard to die with eHP that ridiculously high.

[solemn pulsar]

since there are so many gods that mesh decently with it

[mossy zinc]

Even if your dodge chance doesn't go up that much, you have damage reduction to fall back on.

Hyper Sprint, Weak...

That's still a lot of eHP.

[quartz mantle]

Yea but dodge is like

Infinite eHP

Your weak does not even compare

[solemn pulsar]

only as your dodge approaches 100%

for which you need decently maxed plume, zag fists, a call, and 2 epic boons

[mossy zinc]

Technically, the eHP for dodge chance approaches infinity as dodge chance goes up, but the eHP for 100% is not defined.

[solemn pulsar]

from hermes

t e c h n i c a l l y

[mossy zinc]

1/0 is not infinity.

[solemn pulsar]

sure, in theory

in practice you have infinite eHP at 100% dodge

[mossy zinc]

The limits of eHP as a metric.

[solemn pulsar]

because "infinite eHP" is not a quantitative measure, but a qualitative one

[quartz mantle]

Infinity is also a concept not a number so you can’t mathematically express it like you’re trying to

[solemn pulsar]

1/0 is undefined there, but "infinite eHP" is defined

the numeric eHP for 100% given your calculation standard isn't defined

but if it's undefined at attainable values it's probably not a good standard, and should be updated with a special case

i.e. 100% dodge = infinite eHP

[mossy zinc]

No. 🔫

I don't want to have infinite eHP.

I want to have undefined eHP.

Question:

[solemn pulsar]

the answer is no

https://giphy.com/gifs/A4R8sdUG7G9TG

[mossy zinc]

How many Ignited Ichors do we need to break the warp 10 barrier?

Warp 10 is defined as infinite velocity.

[solemn pulsar]

define infinite velocity

[mossy zinc]

Any entity traveling at warp 10 would exist at all points in the universe at once.

Do you think that would make Lord Hermes jealous?

[devout quiver]

time to get a seed that lets you buy 15 ichors in the last half of Elysium

[rapid pike]

AP 3: you will only have 1 door option

[undone tartan]

Eww

[mossy zinc]

AP4: It's Lady Demeter.

[undone tartan]

[quartz mantle]

How much routing would it take to stack 10 ichors on top of hyper sprint and greater haste

[mossy zinc]

And Second Wind.

[quartz mantle]

Or I guess if you’re routing you can just go for smoldering with second wind

And get greater haste in Styx

[rapid pike]

I’d rather get rd than second wind

[mossy zinc]

And Ferocious Guard.

[mossy zinc]

You can get three Lord Hermes boons in a run.

[quartz mantle]

Although that depends because you either run plume for the extra speed or hourglass for the longer ichors

I think ferocious guard is the only hammer that buffs movement speed right?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, moreso than Zag Sword.

[quartz mantle]

The other contender is zag sword for the constant 15% increased move speed

[rapid pike]

Hourglass has a much larger potential tbh

[quartz mantle]

Rather then relying on block

[mossy zinc]

You shouldn't need Hourglass in a routed run. You just need a Well in the last tunnel and reroll that one a lot of times to stack the Ichors.

[quartz mantle]

But we’re talking theoreticals here anyways so I think ferocious is probably the move regardless

Yea that sounds about right

[mossy zinc]

And then you give that route to all the other speedrunners and a route that stacks Slothful curses for tounis and let tounis race against everyone.

Should be an even match.

[undone tartan]

With two slothful curses can you barely move?

[sand temple]

throw on some halting boons and then suddenly the heroes fight starts looking pretty scary

[undone tartan]

Combine them with the reduced dash distance and you actually can’t move

I want to mod the game so I can play around with that stuff

[mossy zinc]

Reduced Dash range is Halting, yeah.

[solemn pulsar]

the current Any Heat route has -80% slothful

with 2 curses stack

and you really can't move without dashing LOL

but you have +3/+4 dashes so the movement is fine

[undone tartan]

Wait why that over something like trap damage?

[solemn pulsar]

because routing curses is hard

[jaunty falcon]

Big cast

Good

[undone tartan]

Wait how is that related?

[solemn pulsar]

routing isn't just "ok give me what i want"

[undone tartan]

Fair

[solemn pulsar]

you have to find it within a reasonable number of RNG manips, or it will slow you down

[jaunty falcon]

You see +70% cast damage, you take it

[solemn pulsar]

nah there were some that woulnd't work

[jaunty falcon]

And the curse doesn't seem to slow you down enough

[solemn pulsar]

like -max HP is no good

because you have more chaos gates to enter

and the route picks up +incoming damage and "hidden chambers" later on

it's just about what's available within range of a decent number of manips

tartarus is really hard to route, so you take what you can get

finding a workable fast route through tartarus is the hardest part of making aroute

by far

[undone tartan]

Makes sense

[solemn pulsar]

at leat until para finishes his auto-routing tool 🙏

[solar maple]

even then I suspect you'll have to make minor tradeoffs in tart

[solemn pulsar]

ofc but you can just let it run and get the stuff

the time investment will drop considerably

[solar maple]

entirely believable that aspho/elysium/styx can be "perfect" (other than manip speed) though

and yeah if you really put in effort you could route a lot of ichors between a ton of wells with hourglass

[solemn pulsar]

14 would be your hypothetical max, i think

7 well screens, 1 ichor and 1 fateful twist that gives ichor per well screen

in terms of lasting to hades fight

[solar maple]

7 well screens?

[solemn pulsar]

chamber 34, midbiome, 1 in styx

6 rolls, roll first 2 wells once each, styx well twice

[solar maple]

with hourglass ichors last 16 combats

[solemn pulsar]

maybe you can stretch it backwards to include 1 more then

[solar maple]

I'm pretty sure you could carry it from pre elysium

[solemn pulsar]

hmm

only 1 in elysium though for sure

[solar maple]

maybe even a well in asphodel lmao

[solemn pulsar]

oh true with routing stuff lol

[undone tartan]

Wait is this for routing Anyheat? Would that much ichor even be optimal? That sounds hard to control

[solemn pulsar]

no this is just to be silly

[solar maple]

in the route we buy a braid in asphodel and it lasts until heroes

[undone tartan]

Oh ok

[solar maple]

without hourglass

[undone tartan]

How fast would that be?

[mossy zinc]

We want to breach the warp 10 barrier.

Infinite velocity.

[solemn pulsar]

well movement speed is multiplicative

so this could be like 20 ichors

absolute max

[undone tartan]

With mods couldn’t you just give yourself 20 ichor to test it?

[solemn pulsar]

pseudo has, i think

[solar maple]

yeah I have

[solemn pulsar]

pseudo, get the clip

[solar maple]

you go very fast

[solemn pulsar]

snaps

[solar maple]

posting clips here is annoying

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

So these route strategies are good, but hear me out, though.

[solar maple]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523766792963751936/873736586393694218/nyoom.mp4

[undone tartan]

Lmao

[solemn pulsar]

Route in Only Lady Aphrodite Boons, of Course!

[mossy zinc]

If you can route enough Ichors into the courtyard to breach warp 10, we can reach the surface in 0:00.

[flat flicker]

I’m still waiting on the 63 heat all aphro run

What weapon even

Maybe Rama to charm everything? Idk

[solemn pulsar]

zeus

[mossy zinc]

If you do this on the 10th run, we should be able to get a 0:00 clear.

[mossy zinc]

No. Only Lady Aphrodite.

[solemn pulsar]

there is no aspect of aphrodite

sorry

[flat flicker]

Aspect of lebron when

Tho maybe aphro should get an aspect first

[mossy zinc]

She loves Chiron. That's her aspect now I've decided.

[solemn pulsar]

chiron is a horse

a horse amn

[mossy zinc]

And Chiron doesn't have an aspect anymore.

[amber jetty]

Id say aspect of chiron is chiron's actually

[mossy zinc]

It's Lady Aphrodite's now.

[undone tartan]

Chiron could totally work with every aphro boon

Charm every boss

[flat flicker]

aspect of hypnos

"say random witch, have you tried not shooting into a divine dash?"

[solar maple]

honestly chiron isn't a terrible choice for a max heat route even if that sounds kinda stupid

[flat flicker]

im thinking max heat with aphro mod and the 20 ichors

[solar maple]

oh 20 ichors is never practical

lol

[flat flicker]

haha i know im just goin with it

[undone tartan]

That would be harder than no ichor

[flat flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/sanic-the-hedgehob-running-gotta-go-fast-fast-gif-4964355

[undone tartan]

You will absolutely time out because you can’t control where you are

[solar maple]

if you want to buy 20 ichors on max heat you probably have to fight charon :p

[mossy zinc]

When you get enough, you'll be in all places at once.

[undone tartan]

But not in a way that allows you to hit enemies

[solar maple]

it's entirely possible that you clip out of bounds with enough ichors

[flat flicker]

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.N1OIR5_EJswREZR68by_XAHaJ4&pid=Api&P=0&w=300&h=300

[solar maple]

never really experimented with it too much

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

The only problem is that you might become a lizard.

[solar maple]

I mean it wouldn't help you clear the game faster

you would just get stuck out there

[undone tartan]

Can you clip back in bounds

In maybe a different room

I guess I don’t know how the rooms are organized

[solar maple]

the rooms don't work that way

[undone tartan]

[flat flicker]

Do the upcoming rooms even load or is it predetermined

Or just loaded every time u go to new room

[solar maple]

they don't load until you open the door

[flat flicker]

Word

[honest kernel]

it would make sense that the heart-seeking bow has an aspect of aphrodite 😉

[undone tartan]

Hello Joker

[hallow garnet]

Isn’t it heart seeking in terms of like, going for the kill

yo

[solar maple]

aphrodite does that too sometimes

[undone tartan]

Well Aphrodite doesn’t pull any punches, with the highest % attack and special boons

[hallow garnet]

true

[gaunt fiber]

Aphrodite's boons are all depressing

[honest kernel]

dying lament, broken resolve, wave of despair, empty inside 😰

[jaunty falcon]

Life affirmation

[rapid pike]

Unhealthy fixation

[strange parrot]

I gotta say

does anyone else find that the asterius mini boss fight

is way harder than the heroes boss fight on high heat

[undone tartan]

I used to for sure

[strange parrot]

maybe just me, but he's so hard to deal with in the miniboss room

[undone tartan]

I don’t anymore, but yeah it takes a lot of getting used to

[strange parrot]

Just lost such a good run

[undone tartan]

I definitely thought that for a while

[strange parrot]

72 damage per charge attack hit

[undone tartan]

Yeah it’s so painful

Way easier with shield though

[honest kernel]

hes hard you get to run around him more in heroes arena

[strange parrot]

I'm using rail for 45 heat

[honest kernel]

+heroes have bigger pillars

[undone tartan]

What aspect

That fight is pretty easy with Hestia but quite hard with Eris

[strange parrot]

Eris

I don't like hestia

[undone tartan]

It’s hard to get used to

I’ve never beat 45 heat Eris. I’ll do it some day

[mossy zinc]

I'd say EM3 is definitely harder than solo Asterius if you didn't get to fight solo Asterius before the fight... definitely with CP2. Not sure about CP1.

Assuming HL5 FO2, of course.

Asterius going into the boss fight with less HP actually helps a lot.

[undone tartan]

The spin and charge are super annoying in the miniboss arena though

Charge is also very dangerous

Spin is just annoying

Unless you’re using Hestia, then it’s free damage

[mossy zinc]

Fight him close to the arena wall, ideally between a pillar and the wall.

Charge shouldn't be too hard to deal with there.

[ashen garnet]

Charge hitbox is yuge, to the point that sometimes you get hit through a pillar. The real pain with EM3 Asterius miniboss is if he spins all the time as the arena is smaller and you have less pillars to stuck him in (when he spins, his pathfinding is to go straight at zag's current position)

Was also wondering if other players have missing pre-charge sound effects (or overlapped) ? Happens quite a lot during EM3 Heroes

[mossy zinc]

I can't say I've noticed any bugs like that in recent times.

You don't need to get his spin stuck on anything, you can just outrun him. Not particularly engaging, but it's easy to deal with.

[narrow carbon]

TD3 + 5-sack isn’t unfair at 40 Heat - moreso at higher heats. It just takes practice. Here I have 5 mins to spare on a dash-only Gilgamesh run (was 2 sack): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797986799484928010/881380192705191956/video0.mov

[ashen garnet]

Yup, it's the best in the general case, but if you have only 1 dash or a speed/dash chaos curse, having the stuck alternative helps. All the same, having a reliable audio clue of the charge really helps to not commit your dash when the bullman is offscreen

[strange parrot]

How do you "just out run" just charge with FO2

[mossy zinc]

The spin, not the charge.

[strange parrot]

oh nvm

what do I do about the charge in the mini boss arena

I usually destroy both pillars on accident with eris

[mossy zinc]

Either you get close to an obstacle and dash away at the last moment before he reaches you, or you stay between two obstacles and dash through him when he gets close.

[undone tartan]

That doesn’t make a difference

[strange parrot]

So what other obstacles are there

[gaunt fiber]

You play around pillars and wall and dash through Asterius so he can't drift on you

[mossy zinc]

The pillars and the wall.

[gaunt fiber]

Hence having wall or the pillar behind you

He's quite good at driving so yo must force an angle he can't take

[undone tartan]

Does plume increase the odds for getting the Hermes legendary? I know it’s a prereq, but I mean does the % increase? If so, by how much?

[honest kernel]

it does increase rarity idk how much

[undone tartan]

Do you know where I can find that info?

[hallow garnet]

It wasn’t on the wiki, but apparently while wearing plume you can get legendaries without needing any other boons from hermes

[undone tartan]

Yeah

It’s a prerequisite

There’s a lot of weird stats stuff that’s not on the wiki

[solar maple]

it does not increase rarity

afaik

[mossy zinc]

It simply unlocks the legendary.

So you don't need Auto Reload for Bad News or Quick Reload/Flurry Cast for Greater Recall.

[hallow garnet]

so it just gives you the chance to get legendary faster

[mossy zinc]

But it doesn't change the odds for the legendary roll. It simply allows you to roll for legendary in the first place.

[undone tartan]

Gotcha

[mossy zinc]

Yes, and hence increases your odds of finding the legendary in a run.

[honest kernel]

oh I thought it increases odds sry

I misunderstood

[mossy zinc]

It also increases your odds of finding both Rush Delivery and Hyper Sprint in a run.

[ashen garnet]

Imagine having +20% of finding rare RD

Plume unlocks RD even without any stack

[mossy zinc]

RIP test branch.

[rapid pike]

For eris rail 40 heat should I get divine dash or splash dash

[waxen relic]

Either. More Safety or more damage? Whatever you need.

Or get.

[mossy zinc]

The answer is yes.

[spice lava]

If you're doing your first attempts with Eris, Divine Dash. 40 heat Eris runs rarely die because of lack of DPS 👀

[undone tartan]

Very true

Divine Dash can also help a lot if you can’t find Delta Chamber

[mossy zinc]

Because of lack of DPS, they rarely die?

[spice lava]

The other way, when 40 heat runs die the cause is rarely the lack of DPS

[mossy zinc]

I actually think low DPS is often an important factor. As in, a lot of problems can be avoided if enemies simply die more quickly.

I'd expect the win rate for first 40 attempts with Tidal Dash and Divine Dash are roughly the same on Eris.

[undone tartan]

I’m pretty sure I wasn’t offered a second Hermes boon at any point. Im about to enter Styx, am I gonna see a Hermes boon on one of the paths? The answer will determine what boon I sell here

[mossy zinc]

Not like we can get that kind of data, though.

[spice lava]

I was implying Eris indeed

[undone tartan]

Nyaa do you happen to know?

[mossy zinc]

Likely but not guaranteed. You must have missed the second one somehow.

[undone tartan]

Ah ok

Thank you

[mossy zinc]

@solemn pulsar is the best person to ask about that kind of stuff. I never dug deep into the bag mechanics.

Just not something I've needed to know.

[solemn pulsar]

u got fd

in essence

[undone tartan]

It wasn’t on one of the paths unfortunately

I could have missed it though

To be fair

I may have taken a shop over it or something back in Asphodel and forgotten. Probably not, because I was looking for specific boons, but it’s possible

[mossy zinc]

I know. Lord Hermes was annoyed because you were complaining about TD3 earlier.

"If you're going to take your time, I guess my services are not needed."

Something like that.

[undone tartan]

Damn it Hermes

I’m doing my best!

[mossy zinc]

Or just like "oh nice Chaos Gate" and entering without looking at exits.

[undone tartan]

Nah I unfortunately didn’t get a single chaos boon this run

[mossy zinc]

Wow.

Guess you must have really upset those two.

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

Master Chaos just doing their best to bring you amusement with a 5-sack so you get to do all the tunnels and have fun playing the game you love, and how did you thank them...?

[thorny veldt]

Playing arthur with controller is actually torture

[undone tartan]

Why?

[next acorn]

It’s fine imo

[undone tartan]

Yeah I don’t see the issue

[flat flicker]

Switching from kbm to controller is gonna suck for a while

[flat flicker]

Okay any ideas or suggestions for Chiron bow

[undone tartan]

Other than heart rend?

[flat flicker]

Yeah

I got by but it didn’t feel comfortable lol

Didn’t hit hard enough

Need chaos

[undone tartan]

There’s nothing better in terms of DPS

[ripe ermine]

I like Drunken Flourish. Aphrodite attack and low tolerance is good. You can do crowd control sorta by changing targets after stacking on full hangover. You’ll get a feel for when it’s better to switch targets and let hangover finish the job, or keep on barraging them.

Pom flourish like it’s your job

[mossy zinc]

That goes for any crit build really.

Your best DPS on Chiron is gonna be Tidal Dash start into Tempest Flourish and Sea Storm.

But Chiron DPS is just not really good. It shines in just letting you use your Special safely from very far, especially when you're doing FO0.

Pretty easy to run circles around your enemies and just pick them off with your Special.

[ripe ermine]

Ooh Sea Storm Chiron is a blast.

Speaking of blasts Frost Flourish is also good with Killing Freeze and Arctic Blast

[mossy zinc]

I just start for Heartbreak Strike and pick up any good Flourish that I see.

They scale better with rarity than poms anyway, so picking up a Flourish at Tartarus miniboss is usually pretty good.

And if she offers an epic Heartbreak Flourish, you could just take that.

[bright mango]

Aphro scaling is 📈

[strange parrot]

Turned on approval process just to try it out

it sucks so bad

Got screwed twice in a row

lost epic storm lightning and epic tidal

[shy plinth]

The only way to make peace with approval process is to realize that you didn't lose those

You just never had them

[strange parrot]

sigh You're right

[flat flicker]

I think it would be a lot easier if you didn’t have a crossed our choice

Makes the game feel way more suffocating

[strange parrot]

Yeah

true

Idk, I'm only doing 45 cuz I feel like I need to for some reason

but the heat design is pretty bad compared to difficulty in other games

I wish they took the time to create new enemies, or harder traps, or new enemy attack patterns, or something like that.

[flat flicker]

It’s not supposed to be easy

[shy plinth]

It also wasn't designed for 45 to be a consistent thing that people were doing

It's selectable opt-in difficulty and if you're talking about 45 I assume you're talking about after hundreds of hours

New enemies is middle management, new attack patterns is benefits package, harder traps is heightened security

Seems like a pretty cool design to me, I'd rather choose and mix-and-match my difficulty as opposed to just have a fixed group of multipliers

[eternal hare]

yeah big diff from a game like dead cells where you're "reasonably" expected to max out the difficulty

here it's like the sky's the limit and it actually means a lot if you're able to clear certain heats with certain aspects

going way beyond what the devs originally intended/reasonably expected for most players to even touch

[flat flicker]

I got absolutely wasted on 40 beowulf

[next acorn]

Heat is one of if not the best thing in the game imo. Designing a difficulty system to add what you want to make hard instead of being forced into certain things to adjust to your playstyle or weapon or just what you have fun with is just an amazing freedom to have and adds a bit of strategy as to how you design your pact. It's like they took Celeste's amazing assist mode and just made it increase difficulty instead of decrease it. Instead of making new enemies they have a solution in benefits package where they just add modifiers to the already existing enemies to make them still very fresh without making you learn what the new enemies are and not messing with the setting by trying to cram in more enemy types and you can still easily recognize them. Also in other difficulty systems you will hit the point where the difficulty cannot be raised but because the pact has so many options intended to give variety at lower levels the possible difficulty is just so high that you can always push farther.

No other game has grabbed and kept my attention the same way Hades has and I think heat is a big part of that

[next acorn]

Also because of the freedom to choose pacts its very fair to the player while still providing challenge

until you have to take AP

[undone tartan]

Yeah heat is a great replayability system. It’s what’s kept me playing Hades for longer even than my favorite games

Still, there are some questionable choices in terms of heat numbers. AP is weighted exactly the same way as BP, as if someone would ever say “hmm I need 5 more heat. Should I do BP2 or AP2?”

[next acorn]

that is true

or RI being the same amount as EM2

or RI1 being the same as RI4

[undone tartan]

Yeah

But yeah I appreciate how much replayability is shoved into this game

I wished that I could find more to do in Hollow Knight or BotW but I had literally done just about everything (beside stuff like P5AB and every korok)

Hades doesn’t have that problem

[spice lava]

Once you're good enough, it's just about being patient with AP2

[daring hedge]

i've skimmed a video before that was basically an analysis of how dead cells and hades handle difficulty (with clear bias towards the former of these, considering the uploader mainly does dead cells content), and it was kind of comical how poor their grasp of hades high heat was

iirc they claimed that builds and strategies, aspects etc. were very limited at 32

when that just really isn't true

[honest kernel]

yeah i remember that vid it was posted in the speedrun server

I don't care if you like deadcells more than hades but saying hades is objectivley worse by whining about how hard 32 heat is

[spice lava]

Always wait for big players to come to those games before reaching any conclusion

In the end it's a lot about matching our skill with the RNG on the same run

[honest kernel]

I couldnt beat deadcells BC stuff for the life of me

[spice lava]

Never tested yet but if the difficulty and gameplay fits me I'm in

But 50 heat runs first

[hardy garden]

to get 50 heat without going into ap and ri id have to max literally everything else in the mirror

sounds like death

[honest kernel]

em4 is an option

doesnt that avoid cp2

[hardy garden]

well basing it from my 40 heat pact https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/825862916561305643/888709995473039360/20210918_015558.png

would need js3 amd cp 2 for +3 then em4 is 4, hs1 and cp2 for 3 more

[shy plinth]

RI1 probs

[hardy garden]

js goes till 3 dont it

[daring hedge]

AP does suck but by 50 you really gotta just take at least 1

[shy plinth]

Honestly AP1

Yeah

[hardy garden]

yeah probably

em4 with everything be pain

[shy plinth]

50 heat is pain

[honest kernel]

hellmode helps

[gaunt fiber]

EM4 brings salvation

[spice lava]

50 heat is still 50 heat but after a lot of practice it just feels natural to go for it

[undone tartan]

Ayy that’s my 40 heat pact

50 heat is where it gets really rough

I’ve gotten 45 heat twice

But 50? That’s a huge leap

[vital grove]

50 heat is quite challenging

And I hate EM4, just seeing that damn fight at the end of a run was always disheartening. Didn't practice it much mind

[undone tartan]

Yeah I’m not doing EM4

Too hard

Might as well just not start a run if I’m just gonna die 40 minutes in

[spice lava]

Even without EM4, clearing a new aspect with EM3 at 50 is already stimulating (or frustrating) because it's challenging to be out of our comfort zone

[mossy zinc]

50 doesn't do it for me.

Now, 51 though...

[undone tartan]

What is the massive difference? CP2 instead of CP1?

[mossy zinc]

The 1 instead of the 0.

[undone tartan]

[spice lava]

50 doesn't do it for me.
@mossy zinc From your last pb, do you feel like pushing for more than 51 heat on your favorite aspects or looking for another aspect at 51 or 52?

[mossy zinc]

Tbh I mainly focus on Street Fighter V now and just do whatever I feel like doing in the moment in Hades. I'll probably go for higher heats again when it's necessary to remain #1 on the Women's Leaderboard.

[spice lava]

Is it like serious business about remaining #1 or just a friendly game between you & Toffel? Both? 👀

I'm not criticizing, just genuinely curious, everyone has reasons to push 50 and above and without them, clears probably are out of the question

[mossy zinc]

There's no competition. M number 1. Queen of Hades.

[elfin rock]

who['s the king

[jaunty falcon]

ykc

[honest kernel]

nya just does it

[thorny veldt]

Got to hades two more times on 32 heat

I’m making progress

Slow but steady

One time I even made it over half way through (less than half health left in his second phase)

[undone tartan]

Wait are you on EM4?

[thorny veldt]

Yes

[hallow garnet]

Really?

On 32 heat?

that’s real tough

[thorny veldt]

EM4 FO2 HL5 TD3

[hallow garnet]

crikey

[thorny veldt]

And I forget what it’s called but the elite enemies

[left prism]

you like challenges, huh

[thorny veldt]

I really like making the boss fights harder

Yeah lol

[hallow garnet]

Benefits package

[thorny veldt]

I could probably clear 32 heat much easier with other options

[amber jetty]

you can also do cp2 for tankier bosses

[thorny veldt]

But I enjoy the difficulty that this brings the hades fight, especially for how slow my aspect is

[hallow garnet]

what aspect you usin

[thorny veldt]

Yeah but it also affects enemies which is annoying

[thorny veldt]

Arthur, aka the worst aspect by far for Fo2

[hallow garnet]

You have tight deadline too?

[undone tartan]

Holy god that’s a nightmare

[hallow garnet]

My god

[undone tartan]

TD3 isn’t an issue

[thorny veldt]

TD5 is Easy

[undone tartan]

But EM4 FO2 HL5 is

[jaunty falcon]

Making it hard for yourself but I guess it will be more rewarding

[hallow garnet]

I mean compounded with everything else

and arthur

a r t h u r

[thorny veldt]

Even if I got the 5 sack on any of my runs I would have had enough time

[undone tartan]

But like if you’re gonna make it so hard, why not just do more than 32?

[thorny veldt]

What can I say I enjoy torture

[thorny veldt]

Cuz

[undone tartan]

It sounds better to say “I did 45 heat” than “I did 32 but with an unnecessarily hard pact”

[thorny veldt]

I wanna beat 32 first before going on to 40

[thorny veldt]

I don’t want 32 heat to be easy

[jaunty falcon]

If the end goal is doing above 32, I'd make 32 easier

[undone tartan]

But the pact you’re doing right now is harder than my 40 heat pact

Yeah exactly

[thorny veldt]

I want my pacts to be intentionally harder for me than the average person

[undone tartan]

…why?

[thorny veldt]

Not for bragging rights

But because I love the feeling in video games when it feels like everything is against you and you have no chance

[hallow garnet]

masochistic reasons?

[thorny veldt]

That’s what motivates me in games

[undone tartan]

I just don’t understand why you’re not just doing a higher heat

[thorny veldt]

And I love doing dumb crap in video games

[hallow garnet]

they want to do 32 first

[undone tartan]

“I want to do 32 before increasing the heat” and “I want 32 to be a big challenge” feel like they don’t really make sense

But you do you I guess

I’ll stick with my 40+ heat runs which are probably easier than the pact you’re doing right now

[thorny veldt]

I’m trying to mentally prepare myself for 60

The sooner FO2 HL5 EM4 feels normal the better

[jaunty falcon]

Well, good luck I guess

I don't ever see myself beating 60, and I'm "only" 8 heat away

[undone tartan]

60? No offense but like… no shot

[thorny veldt]

As I see it achievements in games like such aren’t a mark of pure skill or talent

And over

[undone tartan]

Ok but 60 heat has only been done unseeded 3 times ever I believe?

So

There’s just no way I’m sorry

[wintry berry]

unseeded isn't the only way to do 60 heat

[thorny veldt]

Why is there no way

[undone tartan]

Because it’s STUPID hard

[thorny veldt]

Ofc I do it unseeded

Seeded feels cheap

[jaunty falcon]

Not no way, but it is stupid hard

[undone tartan]

Right

[thorny veldt]

I am stupid

[undone tartan]

No that’s not…

[thorny veldt]

Stupid enough to desire something like that

[undone tartan]

You can desire it

[jaunty falcon]

Good luck then

[thorny veldt]

That’s what I love about this game

[undone tartan]

But no offense, I’d bet my life savings you never get it

Sorry

60 heat is nuts

[thorny veldt]

Where there are difficulty conditions so brutal that people straight up haven’t done it yet

[undone tartan]

[jaunty falcon]

And probably never will

[thorny veldt]

Btw with aspect of Arthur btw

All with Arthur

[undone tartan]

60 heat Arthur may not even be possible

[thorny veldt]

My favorite weapon

[jaunty falcon]

Arthur is basically hell after 49 heat

Sorry

[thorny veldt]

Then I’ll prove it is possible

[wintry berry]

Arthur heat wr is 53 for now

[undone tartan]

I will bet my actual life that you don’t

[thorny veldt]

Please don’t bet your life

[jaunty falcon]

You need to deal with damage control

[undone tartan]

That’s like going to Mario 64 and saying “yeah, I can beat the world record by 8 minutes.”

[jaunty falcon]

For 60 heat Arthur, you'd either need 1 dash or DC2

Everything else maxed

[thorny veldt]

DC2 is preferable just dash twice through enemies first

[undone tartan]

Could 60 heat Arthur even be TASed? Is it theoretically possible?

[jaunty falcon]

TASs are very hard to make in this game

Since enemy spawns aren't constant

[wintry berry]

routed runs could be TASed

maybe

[jaunty falcon]

Dash strikes are slow, you'd die to the timer unless you get like every free room

And to do that to every enemy is sad

[thorny veldt]

not dash strikes the dash itself, pick up a dash boon for each room

preferably hangover or something

[jaunty falcon]

I done a DC2 JS3 CP2 Arthur run and barely cracked 19 mins, my Arthur PB is 9:56