h1-high-heat-strategies

[solar maple]

with thunder flare you can just press cast 1 time and count the bolts

[flat flicker]

yeah, i'm not sure, but it just feels so much stronger lol

maybe with thunder flare it treats the double strike bolt as a new bolt to roll for double strike again?

[solar maple]

that was my theory for a while

but it doesn't quite line up

for one thing, there is a cap of 4 bolts unless you have over 100% double strike chance

[flat flicker]

that would likely display as one time you get one bolt, the next four, the next two etc

[solar maple]

and the odds of 2/3/4 don't quite line up with what you would expect from that

it's close though

yeah it does work like that

but the odds aren't quite right

I spent a while looking into this a few months ago

my final conclusion was "who knows"

[flat flicker]

yeah im just thinking out loud like, right now

but zeus call with double strike was doing some WORK

[mossy zinc]

Zeus' Aid + Double Strike = big damage

[flat flicker]

what about for the thunder flare discussion above, i'm curious

if youve done the math

if anyone here has my bet would be it was you 🙂

[mossy zinc]

Thunder Flare bad.

[solar maple]

I'm the foremost expert on nonsense beo bugs haha

[flat flicker]

noted for next time

im just so used to nyaa answering my obscure questions (which is much appreciated)

[mossy zinc]

I care for things that have practical application. Knowing what precisely happens between Thunder Flare and Double Strike doesn't change that I won't take Thunder Flare.

Or that I would take Double Strike if I had Thunder Flare.

[flat flicker]

what about double strike on zeus aid tho

doesnt quite make sense that it feels like it doubles damage w

[latent remnant]

I'm finding 32 heat quite the challenge

(that's me trying to put it as nicely as I can)

[flat flicker]

theres some great info in the pins re: heat loadouts and what builds to go for

[latent remnant]

Why thank you, Lando

[mossy zinc]

The most important thing is practice, practice, practice.

[latent remnant]

Grind, grind, grind

Hahah whoops

[sand temple]

just trying out a few 50 heat pact setups to see what I fancy

and RI2 HL1 seems way easier than RI0 HL5

[undone tartan]

Interesting! Thanks for explaining it!

[flat flicker]

yeah, grinding and accepting that youre gonna get destroyed sometimes

[undone tartan]

Should I stop (almost) always going for Athena as I start to push closer to 50 heat? I always go for Athena for divine dash and extra DDs (although I’ll take an epic tidal dash over Divine Dash on some weapons, as well as potentially Hunter Dash on Rama). Is it time to stop prioritizing Athena or should I keep at what I’m doing?

[solar maple]

athena never really stops being good

[undone tartan]

Perfect

[solar maple]

the main thing is that once you get to a heat where timer is a large issue, you often have to prioritize more dps over the safety of athena

but for lots of aspects you can definitely do 50 with athena force in aspho and be pretty good on time

[undone tartan]

Ok thanks

[solar maple]

fwiw I don't prioritize athena that highly

I take her if offered, but I'm fine filling out my build with other gods

[undone tartan]

What heat do you generally play at?

[solar maple]

50 usually

[undone tartan]

Ok

[shy plinth]

I feel like taking god keepsakes once you get to AP2 territory stops being quite as common

Lot more shackle

[undone tartan]

For people who play very high heat for fun and not to break any personal records (do those people exist?), do you do EM4 before AP2 always to do less resets and more playing the game?

[undone tartan]

Also a good point

[solar maple]

no, not always

[undone tartan]

Lot more resetting for good RNG

[solar maple]

I enjoy ap2 RI0 builds 🤷‍♀️

I don't reset that much, and in fun runs I'll seed the first boon so I don't have to reset there either

[undone tartan]

Hmm ok

[solar maple]

I've done 55 heat zeus twice, and on both of those I didn't even get special from zeus first boon. I'm not a big resetter haha

[undone tartan]

I just have not found AP to be a fun pact. I don’t feel like it adds difficulty in a very fun way

[shy plinth]

You would not be the first person with that feedback

However, without AP2 EM4, we wouldn’t have Retrash runs

And those are a sight to behold

[solar maple]

when I was pushing super high heat beo I started shackle so I didn't have to reset (I don't recommend this though)

[shy plinth]

Honestly when I’m doing chill heat runs, AP2 coin purse is really enjoyable

Like turn it down, AP2, and play whatever the game gives me

But at high heat it just dramatically increases the grind

[flat flicker]

Wait what’s a retrash run

[undone tartan]

A run done by Retrash I bet

[shy plinth]

Yes

Retrash is a person

[solar maple]

yeah like I posted that eris 50 screenshot earlier with hazard bomb spread fire. That run was a ton of fun, even though I wouldn't have picked any of that without ap2

[shy plinth]

They have a lot of vods in the high heat spreadsheet and they are the best EM4 gamer in existence

[solar maple]

they exclusively play with em4 on yeah

[flat flicker]

gotcha

[shy plinth]

Like my favorite game to play with his runs is “guess the aspect”

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/fBf0Tn4lO5FnknrdF7XBinEUa00UTbK0UFsS5BG-vSE/https/i.imgur.com/OGLV6uh.png

This was an EM4 AP2 clear at I think 50

What aspect do you think it is lol

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't really care too much for taking the Owl Pendant for Divine Dash or DDs on Beowulf.

Just get damage.

[undone tartan]

Tbh I should try this. There are some boons that I pretty much never use ever (like Thunder Dash)

And sure, I don’t use them because they’re bad

[shy plinth]

If only thunder dash worked with gilga

Stupid internal cooldown

[undone tartan]

It doesn’t?

[solar maple]

just get splitting bolt in tart

[shy plinth]

0.2 second lightning cooldown

[solar maple]

the tailesque strat

[undone tartan]

Does Gilgamesh actually dash that fast?

[shy plinth]

Yes that is a high quality strat

[solar maple]

I'm pretty sure gilga can't dash that fast

[shy plinth]

If you hold the button down you’ll dash fast enough to only get two bolts I think

[solar maple]

every other aspect can

oh really

[shy plinth]

You don’t get all 4

[solar maple]

that sucks

[shy plinth]

I’m not 100% sure

But pretty sure

[solar maple]

gilga has the slowest dashes in the game lol

[shy plinth]

Maybe I’m misremembering

[undone tartan]

4? I only have 3 on Gilgamesh

[flat flicker]

[shy plinth]

Right right ruthless

[solar maple]

on the bright side the bots themselves don't usually matter that much

it's usually just to apply jolted

[mossy zinc]

Gilgamesh dashes are shorter and end sooner.

[solar maple]

they have a longer cooldown between dashes though

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, the cooldown is bad.

[undone tartan]

How broken would extra dash distance be? Like as a Hermes boon or a chaos boon or a keepsake? Nothing crazy, just like 10%

[honest kernel]

depends if it extends i frames or not I think

[undone tartan]

The dash takes the same amount of time, just goes further (and therefore moves faster)

In order to not break anything (in case that’s the reason this doesn’t exist) it could still retain the same distance while dashing over gaps

[honest kernel]

it would help but I cant imagine it being super busted

[waxen relic]

Not. ZagSword had it. Did as much as Movespeed now does. Basically nothing.

[undone tartan]

Really? Hmm

Why is reduced dash distance from Chaos so bad then?

[waxen relic]

Is it? It's mostly Serrated Point vs Bosses that's bad.

[honest kernel]

I think its pretty annoying

but theres worse chaos curses

[undone tartan]

I also find the serrated point downside to be really bad, yeah

[undone tartan]

For sure, yeah

[waxen relic]

And well some stuff like Shields doesn't really care.

[honest kernel]

yeah I dont play shield

bow wants to get away I think

[jaunty falcon]

http://imgur.com/a/RwV6CMD I'll post this here as well

What more could you want

[vital grove]

Epic Snow Burst is Baeowulf

[ripe ermine]

Jealous

[latent remnant]

Your game looks more zoomed out than mine

if that makes sense

[jaunty falcon]

Usually when you play on wide monitors, there are borders on the edges

I think its normal?

[latent remnant]

Oh I seeee

sigh

once more into the breach, lads

[mossy zinc]

The zoom is different in different chambers, pretty sure. Not by much.

[latent remnant]

what can I replace TD with

if I really don't like it

or is that just, not happening lol

[sand temple]

you can probably manage without it for doing your bounties

but you are going to make your life significantly worse if you try to dodge it when going higher

and if you still insist on not using it then we need to know what else you are using so we can give replacements

[latent remnant]

I'm doing the Nyaa loadout

https://i.imgur.com/Bc2wKQa.png

[sand temple]

FO1 should be manageable

what weapon are you using?

[latent remnant]

Hestia

No, sorry, Eris

[quartz mantle]

Eris literally benefits from FO

Most of your damage comes from jolted, the faster enemies attack the faster you deal damage to them

[sand temple]

you can get away DC then

[latent remnant]

I'm guessing DC means Damage Counter?

I don't know, sorta new to meta talk

[quartz mantle]

Control but yea

[latent remnant]

oh nice

[quartz mantle]

The abbreviations are pinned if you wanna glance at them

[latent remnant]

Nice, thanks

Is it worth sticking with Eris or would a Chaos shield be easier

well, 'easier' in, you know

[quartz mantle]

Eris is one of the best weapons for 32 heat

[latent remnant]

'How easy will my mistakes be forgiven?' is basically the logic I'm running off

[quartz mantle]

Chaos may seem easier because lol shield moment but it lacks in damage and can’t deal with TD3 as easily

[latent remnant]

Right, right

[quartz mantle]

The less time enemies are alive the less time they have to kill you

[latent remnant]

Good logic

[quartz mantle]

So I’d say Eris is more forgiving

[latent remnant]

Okay neat

I'll give this a go

Would starting with a Zeus keepsake be better?

[quartz mantle]

That is what you usually do yes

[sand temple]

you almost always want to start with a god keepsake

[latent remnant]

it's that or the Owl for the Dash Deflect

[quartz mantle]

Go for Zeus attack, get area control, then go into Athena keepsake for asphodel for defensive boons

Nah you want damage for tart

[latent remnant]

Right right

[sand temple]

get the relevant attack or special boon at the start

if you want divine dash then equip the keepsake for that in asphodel

[latent remnant]

Okay, noted

[quartz mantle]

You want to be able to start your run, with TD3 tart can be rough if you’re not starting with something that gives you damage

Unless you’re playing like

Rama or something

But from the pact you showed, I’d at least put on FO1 and DC2, if you want you can take a tier off of TD to make the game a bit more comfy and then take off CF entirely

[latent remnant]

I can't see tart in the pins, I'm sorry

[sand temple]

tartarus

[latent remnant]

Oh!

Nice, gotcha

I was like, cakes? Tarts?

[quartz mantle]

God it really shows how much you play a game when you never type anything out completely

maybe I should play other games or do something else with my time

[latent remnant]

yeah but if you did that, then you wouldn't be a help here

[quartz mantle]

True!

[latent remnant]

https://i.imgur.com/qGmlPnU.png

For Eris...

[hardy garden]

cluster

[latent remnant]

and the run I'm doing now

[latent remnant]

Is Cluster that good? I've never actually tried it

the -30% always scared me

[hardy garden]

well it covers a huge area

and you can stack the bombs

[full fossil]

cluster is good, if nothing else it makes your buff easier to proc

[flat flicker]

Cluster may be the best rail hammer in the game lol

[undone tartan]

It’s super good

[latent remnant]

oh dear

lol

whoops

[quartz mantle]

Cluster is cool because you stack the bombs on a boss that’s phasing and it goes boom boom boom boom boom

[flat flicker]

All good!

[undone tartan]

Nah it can’t be better than Rocket I don’t think

[hardy garden]

actually isnt the 30% additive?

[flat flicker]

It’s preference, I like cluster

But rocket also very gud

[hardy garden]

or uh subtractive

[quartz mantle]

Someone is forgetting h a z a r d b o m b

[undone tartan]

Have you done speedruns?

[quartz mantle]

Man not everyone prefers things based on how optimal they are

[latent remnant]

okay

[quartz mantle]

Bot stinky

[latent remnant]

holy ship, bombs go boom

[undone tartan]

Right but they called it “best”

[quartz mantle]

They do go boom

[latent remnant]

thanks, guys

[undone tartan]

It doesn’t matter

Nvm

[hardy garden]

wait so is clusters -30% subtractive with damage increase

[quartz mantle]

Cluster is pretty comfy on Eris because now you can get your buff from like anywhere

[undone tartan]

I find Rocket much more comfy since the delay is gone and I never have to go out of my way to activate it

[quartz mantle]

Anyways none of that matters because both Cluster and Rocket remove Hazard from your pool instantly making them worthless

[latent remnant]

God, the restore -100% is killing me

[shy plinth]

LC4+SD is an adjustment at first

You need to proactively reset your health total between rooms by hitting traps or standing in lava or whatever and your boss fights will need to get a lot cleaner

Takes a while and elysium gets pretty scary

[undone tartan]

SD becomes necessary anyway at a certain point since most normal rooms will become incredibly difficult

At least in Elysium

Especially with Slugger enemies dealing over 50 damage per hit

[latent remnant]

Lads, I'm so sorry

but that run was so good but the lack of healing absolutely stung my arse

[undone tartan]

It takes getting used to

[quartz mantle]

Yea you basically play at a continuous 30% of your max health through most of the run

that's not something you're usually used to

boss fights are a lot harder and certain elysium rooms can ruin your day

[latent remnant]

it's just if I'm on 16hp

I'm going to die, and then I'll be done for in the next life level

just a real bugger

[quartz mantle]

You're on Stubborn Defiance right?

[undone tartan]

Wym the next life level?

[latent remnant]

Yeah I'm using SD

Like, the next gauge

[undone tartan]

I expect to use my SD in most rooms

It’s fine

[quartz mantle]

That's what I mean by continuously playing at 30% of your max health

[solar maple]

lili, the former speedrun wr holder and first person to sub 6 with eris preferred cluster to rocket. So it's definitely not obviously worse

generally people lean rocket first though in speedruns

[jaunty falcon]

Bablo does as well

I prefer it to rocket on hestia

[undone tartan]

Cluster definitely demands higher skill to utilize optimally in a speedrun

Actually, in any context

[quartz mantle]

Well doesn't rocket fiery with eris buff oneshot everything in tart?

[undone tartan]

Yeah I think so

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah, all unarmored enemies at least

[solar maple]

you were just acting like liking cluster is so obviously wrong and terrible

when it's a perfectly reasonable position

[latent remnant]

my issue is getting that health back up, which you can't, obviously, so it's like, if you're screwed, you're screwed

[undone tartan]

No I wasn’t

It’s definitely less comfortable though

[solar maple]

well compared to rocket that is

[quartz mantle]

The idea is you try to pick up health to build a buffer

[undone tartan]

It requires a lot more skill for it to overtake Rocket

[quartz mantle]

So like say I'm at 3 HP, still got my SD and am gonna pick up a centaur heart

I make sure I die first so I'm at 30% health and then pick up the heart

so it builds a bit of a buffer for the next room or two

[solar maple]

also for high heat I prefer cluster to rocket tbh

[sand temple]

also touch of styx is really good

[solar maple]

because of DC2

[undone tartan]

Touch of Styx Dark though

[quartz mantle]

There's also things like Athena DDs, Last Stand makes your SD give you more health back, and Patrocolus in Elysium who makes your SD give you 80% of your max health back

[eternal hare]

yeah it makes a huge difference if you're able to maintain most of your health going into the furies fight on LC4+SDs

[undone tartan]

It does indeed

[eternal hare]

a late centaur health pickup can easily be the difference between a free furies fight and a mildly sweaty furies fight

[quartz mantle]

God damn it I just sold my attack on beo

Wasn't even thinking

[solar maple]

smol cast gaming

[quartz mantle]

not like this

[hardy garden]

going into elysium with 125 max hp and all the enemy pacts on maybe wasnt a good idea

[quartz mantle]

It's Phalanx Flare too

don't ask

[solar maple]

eh then it's fine then

[latent remnant]

https://i.imgur.com/Mve8rqb.png - Bit stuck here

[jaunty falcon]

No change

[solar maple]

phalanx was already smol

[quartz mantle]

H A Z A R D

[latent remnant]

Analysis paralysis

[jaunty falcon]

Delta

[quartz mantle]

Oh gaming

[jaunty falcon]

Isn’t phalanx flare the exact same size as zag flare

[quartz mantle]

I think so

[hardy garden]

also thinking that a statue would block strongbow arrows instead of just breaking and letting me die

[quartz mantle]

Wasn't sure

[solar maple]

yeah it is

hunter flare is 10% bigger

[hardy garden]

wait does ricochet fire work with zeus

[quartz mantle]

Yea looking at it doesn't seem like there's much difference

[solar maple]

phalanx is the exact same size

[undone tartan]

Delta is great because it makes your dash-strikes very safe

[solar maple]

which aspect?

[undone tartan]

Hazard is great on other weapons but not advisable on Eris

[solar maple]

for eris, delta, for any of the others hazard is the way to go

[quartz mantle]

What the hell

[undone tartan]

You are on Eris, right?

[quartz mantle]

man

Don't listen to these fools choose Hazard if you're not a looser

[solar maple]

or hazard eris if you're a gamer 👀

[undone tartan]

But like that’s never correct is it? It’s not exactly easy to i-frame the damage and still get the buff, let alone do it consistently

[eternal hare]

turn on CF2 if you're not a loser

[quartz mantle]

Waitno

[undone tartan]

True

[quartz mantle]

notlikethis

My money

[solar maple]

idk every time I've gotten hazard bomb on high heat eris I've won

[hardy garden]

how does ricochet fire on zeus attack on the rail interact

[solar maple]

not very well

[undone tartan]

Is that… a lot of times?

[solar maple]

1

[undone tartan]

[solar maple]

I don't play much eris lol

[eternal hare]

every time I've gotten delta chamber on high-heat eris i've won

[undone tartan]

Delta chamber is so good for high heat Eris

[solar maple]

but yeah seriously for eris you want delta cluster or rocket

[undone tartan]

Like so so good

[next acorn]

Delta good

[mossy zinc]

Cluster Bombs do 70% base damage. But you shoot 5 bombs instead of 1, so it's really a 3.5x multiplier, anyway.

[latent remnant]

Seeking Fire
Piercing Fire
Flurry Fire

[hardy garden]

ic

[mossy zinc]

Is that a new run?

[latent remnant]

Yes 😦

[mossy zinc]

What's your pact?

[latent remnant]

I can't show until I choose a hammer boon

but it's similar to the one outlined in your guide

[quartz mantle]

You can press the b button

on your keyboard

and the pact shows up at the top

[latent remnant]

AH!

nice

https://i.imgur.com/3ro59X4.png

[mossy zinc]

Flurry Fire, anyway.

[undone tartan]

HL5 FO2 at 32 heat

[mossy zinc]

That is very different from my guide.

[latent remnant]

Yeah but then I asked the others what I can do to switch stuff up

if I'm finding some things hard

[hardy garden]

why no dc

[undone tartan]

Also JS2

[quartz mantle]

We said FO1 and DC2 lol

[latent remnant]

I said similar!

[mossy zinc]

m concerned the others led you astray instead of convincing you to just try the pact.

[undone tartan]

Right but the changes you made have made things a lot harder

[latent remnant]

Yes, good, shift the blame to them

[undone tartan]

Also LC1 SD is pretty pointless

[mossy zinc]

TD1 on what is the easiest aspect to be fast with is a choice that has honestly a lot more to do with inexperience and fear than strategy.

[undone tartan]

If you go LC4 DC2 TD2 HL4 JS0, everything will be easier

[mossy zinc]

You can surely do TD3 with Eris. If not now, then with a little bit of practice.

[undone tartan]

If you go TD3, everything will be much easier

But I know people are scared of that for whatever reason

[mossy zinc]

It's a lot easier to be fast against slower and less numerous enemies than to survive larger group of enemies that are more dangerous.

[undone tartan]

Yeah

[latent remnant]

Should I change my mirror?

[undone tartan]

No, change your pact

[latent remnant]

Yes, I know that much, but I wondered if my mirror was bad too

[undone tartan]

Looks fine to me

[shy plinth]

Fiery presence eh

[undone tartan]

It’s Eris

[shy plinth]

But generally fine, you could use another persuasion dice

[jaunty falcon]

DC

[full fossil]

damage control pretty free with Eris

[jaunty falcon]

It doesn't matter with DC

Fiery Vs shadow I mean

[hardy garden]

shadow presence on eris rail

[jaunty falcon]

Both useless

[shy plinth]

Yeah

[jaunty falcon]

In this case

[undone tartan]

Oh true

[shy plinth]

Irrel

[hardy garden]

but tbh dc makes it hard to proc firery anyways

[shy plinth]

Gosh that pact looks hard

[latent remnant]

Right

[mossy zinc]

It still always procs on the first hit after removing the DC hearts.

[shy plinth]

What's your typical heat level @latent remnant ? Is this a big jump or a small one

[latent remnant]

I am here to put the new pact together

[shy plinth]

If it's a big jump I think I'd probably recommend just getting used to the diff pacts and practicing instead of looking for a magic answer

[latent remnant]

I've done every heat challenge except 32

[jaunty falcon]

So 16 is your highest?

[shy plinth]

But do you normally play in the teens or the 20s

[mossy zinc]

HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3

HL5 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC DC2 TD3

[shy plinth]

16 to 32 is a huuuuuuge jump imo

[mossy zinc]

Pick either one of these for Eris.

[latent remnant]

I've got to Hades before, it's just, you know

beating him

[mossy zinc]

What keepsake are you starting with?

[shy plinth]

Sure, that is significant

[latent remnant]

Zeus

[shy plinth]

The question is just how many reps do you have with the pact options that are giving you trouble

If it's not very many the answer is practice

[jaunty falcon]

Are you building towards Poseidon dash?

[undone tartan]

HL5 on 32 should be pretty avoidable, no? Oh you’re advising FO0?

[mossy zinc]

Well, if you get to Hades without FO2, the fight is going to be a whole lot easier than the previous time.

[shy plinth]

Nyaanyaa has excellent pacts here

[mossy zinc]

This.. isn't the first time you've seen my guide.

[shy plinth]

There is the option to go FO instead of HL if you want

[jaunty falcon]

FO0 is comfy tbf

[shy plinth]

But FO usually harder

[jaunty falcon]

Same with HL0

[undone tartan]

Your guide? I’m unfamiliar

[latent remnant]

Okay I'm gonna try the first one on this

[mossy zinc]

Most players trying their first 32 have a much easier time with HL5 FO0 than with HL0 FO2.

[undone tartan]

I always float around HL3 at 32, but that’s because I’m familiar with FO1

[mossy zinc]

Simply because they get hit much less.

[undone tartan]

Oh no I suggest something in between

[jaunty falcon]

I do all or nothing for HL

[shy plinth]

In between doesn't solve a ton of problems

[undone tartan]

Really? Why?

[mossy zinc]

The worst of both worlds.

[jaunty falcon]

Just don't get hit

[undone tartan]

I always do FO1 and HL3

[shy plinth]

You end up needing to learn new muscle memory and getting punished for mistakes

[undone tartan]

For 32

[jaunty falcon]

I do HL5 FO2 EM2

[shy plinth]

I call your bluff

[mossy zinc]

If you're not experienced with FO2 or FO1, it's best not to take it for 32 Heat.

[undone tartan]

Yeah makes sense

[shy plinth]

Oh wait speedrunning

Right right

[undone tartan]

I definitely think HL5 FO2 for 32 is an awful idea

[flat flicker]

Yeah my path to 32 was 20-25s then some fo2 td3 speedrun attempts. It worked lol

[mossy zinc]

If you are experienced with FO2... there's still an excellent for FO0, which is, you will have no problem no-hitting most encounters when everything moves in slow motion.

[jaunty falcon]

I do the same for 40, but those aren't speedruns lol

[eternal hare]

I just stack on the cozy pacts and the next thing I know I'm at 50-heat ez

[jaunty falcon]

[shy plinth]

You have to kind of commit to learning lc4 SD and then from there you get to skip either fo2, HL5, or td3 and take the other two

But if you take fo2 you get to skip cf...

$$$$

[mossy zinc]

LC4 SD isn't too much learning. Just remember to revive before getting Last Stand or Deathless Stand to get your DDs.

[shy plinth]

But Nyaanyaa is right that HL5 usually less punishing for first time 32

[jaunty falcon]

At least it's not RI3

[shy plinth]

[undone tartan]

Do you guys actually think that HL3 FO1 for 32 is stupid and pointless and that I should always pick one? I feel like the difference between FO1 and FO2 is pretty big. And HL3 feels pretty manageable. I doubt I’ll go back to 32 heat runs but still, I’m curious

Because I did all of my 32 heat runs with HL3 FO1

[shy plinth]

We typically see more success when people pick one or the other

Anecdotally

You can make a lot work with 32

[eternal hare]

I think it's more along the idea of like if you're gonna commit to one thing just commit to it fully instead of being half-in half-out on both

like HL5 isn't that much worse than HL3

[shy plinth]

Fo1 is still a big adjustment

[flat flicker]

32 is kind of where you have to take a pact you know is gonna suck a lot

[shy plinth]

Eh

32 has flexibility

[mossy zinc]

I have often recommended pacts and builds such as this one. But it hasn't caught on. I don't know why. https://i.imgur.com/sjwRVLH.png

[flat flicker]

but still has some choice

[undone tartan]

32 has a lot of room to avoid a pact that “sucks a lot”

[flat flicker]

yeah, i mean i think i am with ya on hl3 fo1

[jaunty falcon]

Exactly. Who needs DDs and double dash when enemies are slugs that have muscle fatigue

[flat flicker]

for 32

[undone tartan]

You don’t even have to take Jury Summons yet

[mossy zinc]

It's just 24 Heat without a mirror, if you think about it.

[jaunty falcon]

Easy peasy

[mossy zinc]

Easiest 32 Heat pact in the world.

Underworld, to be precise.

[undone tartan]

Step 1: Run doing fine
Step 2: Encounter seeker witches in chamber 6
Step 3: Try again

[mossy zinc]

We also generally recommend picking only one of the two. So there's a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy there.

[flat flicker]

My first 32 was with em4 because I was too scared of lc4. I won. once lol

but on my first try so I was convinced that was a good idea

[jaunty falcon]

My first 32 was Rama because everyone said it was good

[flat flicker]

Few months later learned lc4 and now I outright miss it

[jaunty falcon]

I didn't find it good at that time

[flat flicker]

Eris rail, did my first ever successful asphodel Erebus that time too lol

Which gave me Zeus legendary

[undone tartan]

“Jeez tight deadline sounds scary. I don’t want to go fast. I’ll just do RI3.”

[latent remnant]

My heart can't take TD

I just did Meg with 12 seconds to spare

[undone tartan]

But you’re playing the fastest aspect in the game

[flat flicker]

Td3 is sweat on some aspects for me

Not Eris but yeah

[ripe ermine]

You made it tho! Keep going

[mossy zinc]

That's plenty. You'll make up for it in Asphodel easily enough.

[flat flicker]

Asphodel shorter

[undone tartan]

Asphodel is very fast

[latent remnant]

You could plug a supercomputer into my brain and I'd still feel the pressure with a timer

it's psychological

[mossy zinc]

How often have you done runs with TD3?

[undone tartan]

You’re just not used to it

[latent remnant]

Not many

[mossy zinc]

And you still managed to make it out of Tartarus at 32 Heat with TD3.

Without too much practice.

[latent remnant]

-12 mirror?!

[mossy zinc]

With just a little bit more practice, you'll make it out of Tartarus very comfortably.

[latent remnant]

Thank you, Nyaa ❤️

[mossy zinc]

Yes, that's a mirrorless pact with RI4.

[shy plinth]

Don't try this at home kids

[latent remnant]

Does -12 mirror feel outright bad

[shy plinth]

Nyaanyaa is a trained professional

Oh yes

It feels horrendous

[undone tartan]

Yeah it’s literally the worst 12 heat in the game

[latent remnant]

Takes notes

Do... not... do... minus... 12... mirror...

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, it's really really hard. Somebody who can do that at 32 heat comfortably is a super amazing person.

[shy plinth]

I mean unless you really like having one dash and no dds

[bronze rapids]

Coming to think of it, RI4 softens up LC4 somewhat

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, no healing is much better when you also have no DDs.

[undone tartan]

The only time it’s ever correct to take RI4 is at 63 or 64 heat

[undone tartan]

Yeah lmao what

[shy plinth]

You sure you don't want to buy food from Charon

Easy to forget that that's a thing that happens at non lc4 heat

[undone tartan]

but at least you’re not losing out on cthonic vitality

[mossy zinc]

I always take Nourished Soul, really softens up LC4.

[shy plinth]

Great for UC too

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[shy plinth]

You know you're never gonna hit soul

Easier to keep track of

[bronze rapids]

LC4 has trained me to appreciate fountain healing when my randomizer throws me Dark Regen

[mossy zinc]

If your only boon is Nourished Soul, you never have to purge anything.

[shy plinth]

Imagine rare cropping your nourished soul

[mossy zinc]

Free real estate.

[undone tartan]

randomizer?

[mossy zinc]

That's what real estate is, right? I dunno, m not a scientist.

[bronze rapids]

my relationship with RI4 is
let's try it -> this is a mistake -> aaaaa I'm dead -> ...actually that was pretty fun let's do it again

[undone tartan]

RI4 LC4 is actually the worst combo of pacts in the game. Probably it’s the hardest 16 heat possible

[mossy zinc]

Not if you have the strongest spear Guan Yu.

[bronze rapids]

there's a weekly randomized challenge on the hades subreddit that gives a random everything at various heat levels that you try to clear

[shy plinth]

Ri4 ap2

Let's go

[undone tartan]

Even with Guan Yu

[sand temple]

AP2 is 5 heat though

[mossy zinc]

I've looked at them, and they seemed too easy for me.

m being left out.

[shy plinth]

Oh right it is

So maybe Ri4 lc3 hs

[mossy zinc]

Damn amateurists never letting the elites join in on the fun.

[bronze rapids]

yeah I asked this week if anyone wants 24 and 32 heat ones and nobody has bitten yet

[mossy zinc]

Noobist?

[undone tartan]

Maybe. But also no healing at all is a lot worse than 25% healing

[bronze rapids]

you can always add more stuff LOL

[shy plinth]

Hrrrm

[latent remnant]

I got a really hard choice

hang on a moment, lemme screenshot

[shy plinth]

But imagine the emotional impact of surviving with 25% healing and then getting one shot by a jar

That's gotta be worse

[ripe ermine]

Ha I’d try a 32

[latent remnant]

https://i.imgur.com/Lq9XXYY.png

Behold

[undone tartan]

That’s nothing crazy but ok

[shy plinth]

Take the purple one

[undone tartan]

Mmm idk

[latent remnant]

I'm colourblind, which one is that

[undone tartan]

[latent remnant]

hahahah

[mossy zinc]

When people started submitting 32 Heat runs to the speedrun leaderboard, I submitted a 32 Heat mirrorless just to send a message.

[shy plinth]

Seems like dash to me here but idk

[latent remnant]

I'm joking

[bronze rapids]

if OP of the series doesn't pick it back up by next week I can throw one in

[undone tartan]

Always Divine Dash

[latent remnant]

Traps seems good too, that's what's making me pause

[mossy zinc]

Divine Dash.

[latent remnant]

okay, as you wish

[bronze rapids]

I mean we are in the high heat channel so

[shy plinth]

Sure footing is a UC boon

[undone tartan]

Nah sure footing is not great

Yeah

[shy plinth]

It's fine

[mossy zinc]

Sure Footing is really good. But it's not Divine Dash.

[shy plinth]

But not better than the other two

[mossy zinc]

And it doesn't unlock DDs.

DDs like.. Divine Dash.

[bronze rapids]

I'll probably do mirrorless after getting 32 on all the aspects I like

[mossy zinc]

Divine Dourish.

Divine Dike.

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

Dalanx Dot.

[shy plinth]

Dyaadyaa Dewdew

[mossy zinc]

You went too far.

[shy plinth]

Don't be dridiculous

[mossy zinc]

https://i.imgur.com/W5NAKRF.jpg

Time to remove all... 0 runs from you from you the high heat leaderboard.

Well.

Guess you're safe.

For now.

[shy plinth]

See I planned ahead

I need to record a 40 at some point

[twin meteor]

what's the easiest heat modifier?

to get started with heat

[mossy zinc]

https://youtu.be/CGl1vVnFPsw

That's a decent guide for that sort of thing.

[latent remnant]

...I did Lernie...

😮

[shy plinth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668865849079103539/884878890739335178/unknown.png

This is my recommended progression and Haelian is obv a pro at this

Worth checking out his guide for sure

[shy plinth]

Keep going!!!

[latent remnant]

Oh this is really cool

thank you!

[bronze rapids]

for weapons that aren't super boon-dependent you can also swap TD3 for AP2 and play it chill

[mossy zinc]

[bronze rapids]

I mean

[sand temple]

Also weapons that aren't hammer dependent

Don't do AP2 if you need a specific hammer unless you want pain

[bronze rapids]

(that actually inspired me to do AP2 Zag bow and got my first 32 with it)

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/wwe-wwe-alexa-bliss-alexa-bliss-alexa-bliss-meme-alexa-bliss-reaction-gif-17527545

[bronze rapids]

(ok fine I lucked out with Twin Perfect on the anvil)

[hardy garden]

td3 on zag bow is pretty chill

[mossy zinc]

No, you need Lady Demeter's boons for Chill.

That's just untrue.

[dreamy plume]

heat 52

[solemn pulsar]

should probably have this pinned tbh

[latent remnant]

Made it all the way to Thesius and the Minotaur 😦

[dreamy plume]

thats a crazy amount of heat im seriously impressed

one day I shall be part of this chat

[mossy zinc]

I mean you're part of it right now.

[dreamy plume]

true

I just unlocked heat infinity https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484074795730993155/887834563630481430/unknown.png

[mossy zinc]

That's good. Keep at it!

[dreamy plume]

now thats heat

[latent remnant]

I just ran out of time 😦

Elysium is a real time sink

[mossy zinc]

Are you pausing the game when making decisions like which exit to pick?

[latent remnant]

Yep!

[mossy zinc]

Alright.

[hardy garden]

ya got rid of jury summons right

[latent remnant]

The issue is with Elysium, an enemy might run off

and you gotta chase them

you know

[mossy zinc]

Well, it's just a little more practice. You'll get it soon enough.

[hardy garden]

running off is a bit moreso for asphodel

[latent remnant]

Ugh, right?

[latent remnant]

thank you for being supportive

[bronze rapids]

I swear I lose like 10 seconds in those large Asphodel rooms just to searching for those enemies

also I sometimes legit forget that there are numbers between 16 and 32

[next acorn]

I forget that heat can increment other than in 5 after 40

Brain like round number

[mossy zinc]

If you do 51 instead of 50, you'll one-up a lot of people.

[latent remnant]

Right?!

[bronze rapids]

one-up

[mossy zinc]

https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/chamber-layout/asphodel-chamber-layout/

[bronze rapids]

thank

[latent remnant]

https://i.imgur.com/Uw9BFbi.png

Yeah, I like cutting it close

[hardy garden]

lol is that tartarus

[latent remnant]

Oui

[solar maple]

elysium is definitely the slowest biome

ideally you can bank up some time in asphodel, because aspho is usually pretty quick

[mossy zinc]

Asphodel is fast and consistent because it's so short.

Tartarus and Elysium can have a lot of variance.

[undone tartan]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/868852801663565824/887876318027468851/video0.mp4

That’s like attempt 30 with 40 heat Hera bow, but it’s the first that made it to Styx

Hera bow feels kinda… bad

Not just worse than Beo, like actually bad

I used to like it a lot, but at 40 heat it just feels so weak

[solar maple]

hera was one of the hardest for me

[glacial gorge]

Same ended up just using it like Zag with explosive and double shot

[hardy garden]

did 35 with it would have to turn up hl from 2 to 5 and put on ap1

i like how my 32 demeter fists run turned into merciful end dashstrike spamming with blade rift cast

[undone tartan]

I can’t believe I choked after being that close

If I had gotten a 2-sack, I would have kept ToSD for Hades too

And I would have been fine

Wait should I be using trippy shot?

Retrash uses trippy shot for 52 heat

[solar maple]

don't look at retrash vods for build advise

where do you bind cast btw?

[undone tartan]

I play on switch, and I have cast on A

[solar maple]

from that short clip it looks like you are treating loading and shooting as 2 seperate things, where I found it helpful to do it all in one fluid motion

which I heard is hard with default controller binds

[undone tartan]

Like load while aiming?

[solar maple]

yeah

[undone tartan]

Yeah I’d have to press Y and A which are across from each other

[solar maple]

most hera (and beo) controller players like to put cast on something easier to press while attacking, like a shoulder button

I play kbm so idk how much of a difference it really makes though

[undone tartan]

That would be so hard to get used to

[hardy garden]

i have cast on rb

[undone tartan]

Makes sense though

[hardy garden]

helps with beo too

smh default controls are doodoo

[undone tartan]

I was able to get used to rebinding reload to ZL

[flat flicker]

Im tryin beo on it right now, this time haven’t wasted a Meg lol

[flat flicker]

Snow burst is my new favorite thing

[spice lava]

Cast rebind feels weird at the beginning but once you're used to it it's definitely better than the usual B button on Hera and Beowulf

Because your right thumb only cares about atk and dash that way (+special from time to time)

[hardy garden]

move dash to left bumper

[spice lava]

👀

[mossy zinc]

Just use ZL for Cast on Hera then. It's a lot more like a reload than the typical Cast function anyway.

[undone tartan]

That’s true. And I don’t play Hera that much so it’s no like it would require regular remapping

[cursive ridge]

first time im going to try 32 heat run on shield

which is better

chaos or beo?

[mossy zinc]

Beowulf.

[cursive ridge]

oh okay good i just started a run on beo and got extremely lucky by chamber 5 i got mirage shot and an extra cast haha

[mossy zinc]

Nice, now you just need poms and maybe more Grasp and Shots.

And HP is always good.

[cursive ridge]

just finished an erebus pom :>

[mossy zinc]

Sweet~!

[cursive ridge]

ty for the help :D

[mossy zinc]

Oh, and Hunter's Mark and Pressure Points would be great.

[latent remnant]

Good morning

Good news, I'm on Heat 32 and I've made it to Styx

What is the best keepsake to bring with me?

[mossy zinc]

You're not doing EM4, right?

Evergreen Acorn, then.

[latent remnant]

On it

Thank you!

[glass blade]

@mossy zinc does em4 mean you shouldn’t take acorn?

[mossy zinc]

You usually wanna take the Lucky Tooth for EM4, yeah.

Acorn if you have high damage to deal with the summons really fast or if you can just phase Hades really fast.

[latent remnant]

ugh

Died, but got Hades down to half

[mossy zinc]

Nice!

You'll get him!

If you set your roles in #bot-commands, you can probably beat him.

[latent remnant]

Done and done

[cursive ridge]

does parting shot not work on beo?

[undone tartan]

I would argue that Beowulf is the best weapon in the game

[undone tartan]

I don’t believe so, no

[cursive ridge]

ah f

[undone tartan]

But parting shot does very little in general

Also, you should be using Fiery Presence on Beowulf

[cursive ridge]

yeah i was just curious

thinking about if crush shot would work plus parting shot and mirage shot

[undone tartan]

Mirage Shot is great though

It’s bugged, so it actually doubles you damage

Forget Parting Shot since it’s barely does anything even in a good cast build. Mirage Shot is super sick with Beowulf though

[cursive ridge]

was just curious if it would work

[latent remnant]

why's that?

[mossy zinc]

Passion Flare is the go-to build for high heat Beowulf, yeah.

Just high damage, excellent pom scaling.

Easy access to Smoldering Air.

[undone tartan]

It has the speedrun world record for both seeded and unseeded, it has most is not all of the heat speedrun world records, it has second place in terms of high heat. The only place it’s beat is that Zeus shield has beat 61 heat when Beo has only beat 60, since Beo kinda needs the extra bloodstones from Infernal soul.

Is that all accurate Nyaa?

[solemn pulsar]

You can’t even get parting shot on beo

[latent remnant]

Oh right, I see

[solemn pulsar]

Since you can’t backstab with flares

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

I'd look for Mirage Shot with Passion Flare start at 32, but usually for high heat, that's a high roll and you're better off looking for Snow Burst, Smoldering Air, that kind of stuff.

And just lots of poms on your Cast + Grasp and Shot, of course.

[undone tartan]

Rama is definitely my favorite aspect, but I think it’s hard to argue that Beo isn’t the best in the game just on account of the sheer number of records that it holds

[cursive ridge]

oh really? ive been doing poseidon cast is it a lot better to just use aphro?

[undone tartan]

Yeah Passion Flare is definitely better

I think speedruns do Flood Flare for quicker access to Mirage Shot

[mossy zinc]

It's not "definitely" better, but the higher you go, the less you can rely on things like getting Mirage Shot. Mirage Shot is the only reason you'd want to start Flood Flare over Passion Flare, really.

[solemn pulsar]

When you get to high enough heat getting mirage shot is inconsistent

Passion flare is good for applying weak and having high base damage

Flood flare AOE is nice, and access to razor shoals/wave pounding as damage scaling

But it won’t quite match passion for raw damage

[mossy zinc]

Yes. Flood Flare cannot satisfy my passion for raw damage.

[hard gale]

i see what you did there

[cursive ridge]

mirage shot crush flare hit different

[mossy zinc]

Passion Flare.

No such thing as Crush Flare.

[solemn pulsar]

Sorry, passion shot

[mossy zinc]

Why are you calling me passion shot?

Did you know that when you take HL5, Hades does only 50% more damage with Boiling Blood instead of 100%? So HL5 makes the fight easier.

That's how math works.

I should share that in #speedtech.

[waxen relic]

But that's completely irrelevant as you shouldn't get hit anyway. smh

[undone tartan]

Ok I’m never doing EM4 again

Why do people say it’s manageable on Beowulf?

I’d be better off with RI2 AP2

That was so so stupid

I had a 200 damage passion flare, charged shot sudden rush, 370+ health, mirage shot

[mossy zinc]

Because you just get stupid amounts of burst damage with Beowulf and skip the fight, and when you can't do that, you still block 215° and get constant i-frames from Bull Rushes and Dragon Rushes. Just gotta be careful about losing dash i-frames when your Casts go boom.

[undone tartan]

Died in phase 1 before the 3rd part

I take stupid amounts of burst damage is what happens

[solemn pulsar]

dont get hit

[undone tartan]

He hit me FOUR times and I died

[solemn pulsar]

you have to know the patterns

[undone tartan]

Well I guess it was 9

[solemn pulsar]

the fight is different, it's not free

[mossy zinc]

It's not an auto-win, but it's way better than the majority of aspects.

[solemn pulsar]

beowulf is just an effective tool for it

[undone tartan]

Yeah I’m not even complaining about the fight, I’m just so upset that I thought it was a good idea to turn on EM4

Maybe for some people it’s a good idea on Beo, but for me it’s definitely not

RI2 would have been so much easier, and it would be much less painful since I wouldn’t have a perfect run for 40 minutes just to get killed instantly at the end

[solemn pulsar]

what heat is this at?

[undone tartan]

48

[mossy zinc]

I mean part of the reason EM4 is popular on Beowulf is that you get way more consistent runs up to Hades.

[solemn pulsar]

eh

mainly the soundtrack imo

[waxen relic]

You prolly have far less experience with em4 than without, which skews it.

[mossy zinc]

I like the music in non-EM4 more, personally.

[solemn pulsar]

it's the same music

EM4 just has an additional track

[undone tartan]

I’d rather grind for four hours to get a good run than get a good run second try, expend an incredible amount of energy and focus for 40 straight minutes, and get instantly killed right at the end

[mossy zinc]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

At least you got to play out a run and have a shot at Hades.

[solemn pulsar]

tbh it sounds like you were overconfident going in with your damage level

and didn't give the fight the respect it needs

[undone tartan]

I wasn’t overconfident

I was terrified

[mossy zinc]

You can be terrified and overconfident.

[undone tartan]

But I didn’t expect to get hit for 50, 60, and 50 back to back within the span of 5 seconds

[mossy zinc]

You weren't terrified enough.

[solemn pulsar]

1st phase hardly has any differences: midboss adds, double spins, and spear throw are it

[undone tartan]

Nyaa my heart rate was so high that I felt lightheaded. My entire body was shaking
wrong reply

[solemn pulsar]

the latter 2 can be dealt with by panic blocking and methodical play

[undone tartan]

The spear throw is a large part of the issue. That alone feels like it’s worth 3 heat

[mossy zinc]

I feel like that may have affected your performance.

[undone tartan]

Possibly

[mossy zinc]

It's hard enough going up against Hades at a new Heat PB, especially that high, because your nerves are gonna mess you up.

EM4 is gonna be brutal on top of that when you get there the first time.

Unless you're me, of course, then you just beat him first try.

[undone tartan]

I still think that either I spend the next two weeks doing 40+ Beowulf EM4 runs until I’m incredibly confident, or I just never turn on EM4 again. I’m more inclined to go with the latter

[mossy zinc]

That's a fair strategy. I only recently started doing EM4 more regularly at all.

I really don't like EM4, but m also pretty sure I have done more practice fights vs Hades than a lot of people have done runs at all, so adjusting to EM4 isn't that bad for me.

[honest kernel]

you could go with practice saves for em4 unless ur a switch player

[undone tartan]

EM4 FO2 HL5 as it’s own pact is probably harder than my 45 heat pact

[mossy zinc]

One thing you'll find most people do when you watch EM4 fights is fight him in the bottom right corner for most of the fight.

[undone tartan]

I’m a switch player

[mossy zinc]

Like, high heat EM4 fights, I mean.

In the normal Hades fight, you can just kind of stand wherever you want and deal with all of his attacks. You can't really do that in EM4.

Like if you're in the center of the stage too high up or too low and don't know how to move there, you're gonna get hit by spear throws from off-screen before you even see it.

[honest kernel]

yeah

[mossy zinc]

Because you don't see the top/bottom of the stage.

[honest kernel]

I also completly forgot that he throws spears after spinning at phase 2

a quick death

[undone tartan]

What’s his highest damage attack (other than beams)? I could have sworn I got hit for 80 without boiling blood

[waxen relic]

uhm, 153 damage urns?

[undone tartan]

No not the urns

[honest kernel]

em4 urns

[undone tartan]

What’s changed about urns in EM4? I know that there’s always one no matter what, but is there anything else?

[waxen relic]

well i think Spear throws vs Beo, no DR hits for 105.

[waxen relic]

It's passive summoning.

[undone tartan]

What’s DR?

[undone tartan]

Oh

I’ve only done EM4 a few times (other than my two deaths to it)

[eternal hare]

damage reduction

[undone tartan]

Oh ok

I assume you mean it deals 105 with Hard Labor 5

[waxen relic]

y

[solemn pulsar]

beowulf adds 10% lol

[waxen relic]

cgull compiled stuff about both hades variants once: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XnsANvLc6PxjfIVNc-HaL1ybA_x7cl0uq0vjxQJqsgY/edit#gid=0

[waxen relic]

from 50 yeah

[undone tartan]

Wait what

[mossy zinc]

You take 10% more damage with Beowulf.

Well, that's a lie because you take 0 damage when you block or you're invincible.

@solemn pulsar how many times do EM4 pots hit? Because those are definitely not single hits. Or can EM4 pots stack in the same spot and the multi-hits are from that?

[undone tartan]

I’m so confused why do you take 10% more damage with Beowulf? Is that unique to Beowulf?

[solemn pulsar]

yeah they're the same pot

maybe they can overlap, idk

[solemn pulsar]

read the aspect description

[waxen relic]

It's a downside just like Guan Yu has one.

[solemn pulsar]

you take 10% more damage with beowulf

[undone tartan]

Ohhh

Wow I literally missed that

I totally forgot that existed

[solemn pulsar]

all the hidden aspects have a downside:

guan yu: half health
beowulf: 10% extra damage
gilgamesh: maim increases damage taken
arthur: slow as hell
rama: repulse shot
lucifer: nothing, it' sperfect laser pew pew

[left prism]

repulse shot
Lol

[undone tartan]

Gilgamesh has more than one downside if Arthur being “slow as hell” is a downside

[flat flicker]

Arthur is basically playing ganondorf in smash

[mossy zinc]

Gilgamesh's worst downside is the dash cooldown.

[mossy zinc]

I didn't ask you to tell me what you don't know but to exploit your natural curiosity and make you find out.

10/10 strategy, works every time.

[solemn pulsar]

they can overlap

100% confirmed

[mossy zinc]

Ty ty.

[solemn pulsar]

alternatively: no they can't overlap, I've seen no evidence otherwise, can you point me to a vod that showcases this?

pick whichever one you prefer

[latent remnant]

I hate the fight with Hades 😦

[mossy zinc]

I feel betrayed.

[solemn pulsar]

gilgamesh's worst downside is everything

[spice lava]

lucifer: nothing, it' sperfect laser pew pew
@solemn pulsar Lucifer beam doesn't stop projectiles

[solemn pulsar]

it doesn't MELT them?

gotta take athena attack then

i saw a video from a hades player with many hours that requested it

[spice lava]

Athena beam, easy DD

[undone tartan]

Athena special is actually quite good

[undone tartan]

But without the really good fast nair

[zenith spindle]

Chiron 40/ 42 heat tips?

[hard gale]

mark and run

[amber jetty]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/pp4b4a/rail_with_infinite_ammo_athena_divine_strike/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Like this you mean?

[mossy zinc]

pew pew pew

[solemn pulsar]

safetee

[mossy zinc]

Start for Heartbreak Strike, get Deadly Flourish or Drunken Flourish.

Then get their respective Duo Boon, ideally.

And lots of Flourish boons from Master Chaos.

Strike and Lunge are good, too.

Zeus' Aid is also an amazing pick-up because you get a chance at Smoldering Air.

Trippy Shot is great if you have Drunken Flourish because it unlocks his legendary, and the stun can really help you.

It's also a nice target for poms.

Frost Flourish is actually really good if it's epic, but you'll really want to get Killing Freeze or Arctic Blast, ideally both. There's also some potential for Cold Fusion there if you also have Lord Zeus.

Tidal Dash is a great pick. Tempest Flourish isn't that great on its own but can really shine if Lord Zeus is also in the pool for a shot at Sea Storm.

Epic Heartbreak Flourish is pretty good, too, even if you're also running Heartbreak Strike.

[undone tartan]

Go for heart rend

[mossy zinc]

Divine Flourish and Curse of Pain are both very underwhelming... at least Curse of Pain has decent pom scaling and can do some decent damage if you also get Dire Misfortune, but it's really not that great tbh.

[undone tartan]

That’s how I did my 40 heat Chiron run

That’s the same run that apparently got a 40 heat Chiron world record time

Which I did not record

[jaunty falcon]

What is the time?

[mossy zinc]

Divine Dash of course is always good. Hunter Dash is decent, but it just has bad pom scaling, but if you see an Epic one and already have a Flourish, I'd def go for that.

[eternal hare]

time to play 40-heat chiron so that it's not a free wr anymore 🙂

[undone tartan]

15:07

[mossy zinc]

The other dashes are pretty eh on Chiron.

[undone tartan]

Good idea

Because I certainly didn’t deserve that lmao. Not that I got it, since I didn’t record the run

[jaunty falcon]

There is only one submitted run

[undone tartan]

Yeah

[jaunty falcon]

From 5 months ago lol

[mossy zinc]

Hmmm. I probably got a better time at some point, or at least around that.

[undone tartan]

I have no doubt

I only knew it was wr because Mallory told me

[jaunty falcon]

Latthews fresh file time is 3 mins quicker

[mossy zinc]

Well, it ain't a WR without video evidence anyway.

[undone tartan]

Very true

Yeah it was a world record time, but obviously it’s not exactly “world record”

I obviously won’t argue that it is

[mossy zinc]

Maybe I should beat your time with a broken forearm.

Then I can always remind you that I beat your time with a broken forearm... that would be funny.

[undone tartan]

I wasn’t exactly playing for a good time

[mossy zinc]

I haven't even started a run and you're already making excuses.

[undone tartan]

Beat my Zag rail anyheat Pb with a broken forearm

[mossy zinc]

7:30?

[undone tartan]

[jaunty falcon]

I'll do it with drunken strike

[undone tartan]

I didn’t exactly deserve that one either, it was a total fluke. Got absurd Elysium luck in that run

[mossy zinc]

Nice.

[undone tartan]

What’s the Zag rail anyheat world record?

[jaunty falcon]

6:36 I think

[mossy zinc]

Not 7:30.

[undone tartan]

No obviously not Nyaa

[undone tartan]

Oh cool

[mossy zinc]

I know that it's obvious.

[undone tartan]

Damn so I really got some insane RNG huh

[mossy zinc]

But emphasis seemed important.

[undone tartan]

Because… I did not play well

[mossy zinc]

All good times have silly good RNG.

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah both my sub 7s skipped 33 and 34

[undone tartan]

Like if a top speedrunner had played that seed, it would have potentially been WR

[jaunty falcon]

Nah probably not

[undone tartan]

I kept attacking the air and forgetting to reload. My Hades fight was barely under a minute long

[mossy zinc]

Potentially yeah. Helps that not a lot of people are running Zag Rail in the first place.

[undone tartan]

I played so bad

But my RNG was so nuts

[jaunty falcon]

I would try but I cba with hammer/ME resets unmodded

[undone tartan]

I only had three real Elysium rooms, and they were incredibly fast rooms

Like sub 15 second rooms

And that’s played by me

[mossy zinc]

Going for competitive times unmodded is just a total pain at this point. Like it was bad before, but at this point you're not getting out of Tartarus for like 3-4 hours on some aspects just resetting for a run that has a shot lol.

[solemn pulsar]

6:31 is the zag rail record

[jaunty falcon]

Magnil?

[solemn pulsar]

eh it's not too bad on more consistent aspects

[jaunty falcon]

Or lili

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, on some aspects it's not nearly that bad.

[solemn pulsar]

been grinding some unmodded beowulf recently and grabbed 4 sub 6:30 times in like 5-6 hours of play

1 of which had no charged shot

and a couple other sub 7 times with no charged shot

[jaunty falcon]

What were you resetting on

[solemn pulsar]

pace

or a hammer start that isn't charged shot

bc that's a freebie

[mossy zinc]

That's still painful though if you consider how much time you spent resetting runs due to RNG rather than mistakes you made.

[jaunty falcon]

Hammer starts stinky

[solemn pulsar]

correct

[solemn pulsar]

beo is fine with it

you already have decent AOE with base cast

and sudden rush / dread flight / charged flight / charged shot all accelerate your tartarus

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah I don't reset on them for beowulf

[solemn pulsar]

breaching rush is decent as well

[jaunty falcon]

I do on Eris if they are really bad

[mossy zinc]

Like that's 1h of 4 runs + 4-5h of resets.

[solemn pulsar]

i was also resetting for top 20 overall / top 10 beowulf pace

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, that was my point. If you want competitive times, you barely get to play out runs at all anymore.

[jaunty falcon]

I wish I could play for 4-5 hrs straight

[solemn pulsar]

oh it wasn't

it was over several days

just summed it up

[jaunty falcon]

Even then, I can't really play for more than 45 mins at a time

[latent remnant]

Party proc'ers in the house tonight

[mossy zinc]

I usually just do a couple runs anymore nowadays.

[solemn pulsar]

but yeah grinding speed RNG is pretty degenerate at top level

but eh

[mossy zinc]

Part of it is school, and part of it is my main character in Street Fighter V being out since last months, so I play mostly that now.

[solemn pulsar]

still have fun playing the game so it's ok

[mossy zinc]

I just think if you're doing speedruns, you should just do modded. You'll get so many more runs that you can play out, and even if you reset, Quick Reset is so much faster.

Vanilla speedruns would be less painful if they allowed things like Quick Reset.

[jaunty falcon]

Modded is a blessing

[mossy zinc]

Which btw is legal for the high heat leaderboard.

[jaunty falcon]

It's a shame that EM4 is hard

[latent remnant]

What's Quick Reset?

I mean, I can sorta guess

[spice lava]

That's part of the mod's package: Press one button and Zagreus dies instantly

[mossy zinc]

You actually press multiple buttons, but yeah.

[latent remnant]

and respawns back in Tart?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, Quick Reset won't help you with that.

No, back in the House of Hades like normal.

[latent remnant]

oh

[amber jetty]

just quick reset hades himself, ez

[jaunty falcon]

Just convince him to mash all of his buttons at the same time

[narrow carbon]

Do you mean, with HL0, a spear thrust does 30 normally and 60 with boiling blood, and at HL5 it does 60 normally and 90 with boiling blood (instead of 120)?

So Hades’ boiling blood is additive not multiplicative?

[mossy zinc]

Yes, HL5 and Boiling Blood are additive.

That's why spins do 120 instead of 160 with HL5 and Boiling Blood.

[next acorn]

How does it work with other levels of HL?

[mossy zinc]

Additively.

[next acorn]

So HL1 would be 80%?