Same idea for Dark Foresight: I don't understand the struggle of not having it because I spent too much time playing with RI2 👀
#h1-high-heat-strategies
spice lava
next acorn
I’ve only done CF1 and already hate it
It just sounds to easy and it just isn’t
Like HS
pseudo kernel
wow that was really cool
heady olive
nice
shy plinth
@gaunt fiber more like Astalos
honest kernel
nice
edgy arrow
lol loads of things are fine at 32
shy plinth
Yeah you can make whatever you want work at 32
But I wouldn't call it the easiest choice
ashen garnet
Skip mid-shops. <:courte5DusaBond:851568355453566976>
I do skip them rather often (maybe too often given how the game does balance blue/gold laurel rewards), but it's all about obols management : if you get early chaos affluence or poseidon ocean bounty, CF2 is very cheap heat
shy plinth
It's not cheap if you have to work that hard to take bad boons to account for it
And think about what you're giving up by taking tartarus ocean's bounty
edgy arrow
the reason CF2 is annoying is that you can’t outbuild it, you gotta outplay it
its the same as the issue with AP but on a smaller scale
stuff like HL5 FO2 you can smash with a good build without having to play well, but as soon as you start introducing heat that messes with your build the bar for the minimum skill required to win starts going up faster
CF2 is perfectly workable but there are good reasons to dislike it
shy plinth
This remains my recommendation for 32 overall but it has flexibility like all 32 pacts
Could easily push more HL if you don't want either TD3 or FO2
Options for JS1-2 as well if you go TD2 though I'd rather not
mossy zinc
I guarantee you that more people will die more often to HL1 FO2 for their first 32s than they would die to HL5 FO0.
shy plinth
Maybe, my experience was that HL5 was way harder
But I understand that there's a divide there
mossy zinc
Yeah, I know that worked better for you.
edgy arrow
huh that’s kinda wild
shy plinth
I think the general consensus for a while was that HL5 was way easier than FO2
Probably still true, but I play fast and sloppy
edgy arrow
suggests you get hit about the same regardless of FO
shy plinth
Yes
edgy arrow
which like, good for you i guess
shy plinth
It is not good for me lol
The goal is to not get hit and I have repeatedly failed that goal
edgy arrow
FO2 is worth more heat
mossy zinc
Also depends on your aspect tbh. I think FO0 and FO2 on Malphon don't make much of a difference.
edgy arrow
technically an advantage
mossy zinc
Unless you take EM3 FO2 simply for that particular fight.
mossy zinc
If you're not already at a level where 32 is kinda free anyway on Malphon, you'll probably get hit a ton whether you take FO0 or FO2.
edgy arrow
malphon is prolly my worst weapon for FO2 personally lol
too up close, less margin for error
mossy zinc
So HL0 might make more sense.
gaunt fiber
each dash is commitment you have to keep that in mind
edgy arrow
yeah
mossy zinc
Newer players tbh just zerg their way through 32 with Malphon anyway lol. Don't gotta dodge if you can just kill things before they can kill you.
gaunt fiber
Hermes good
mossy zinc
As for CF2, it ironically has a greater effect on your run the better you are at spending your money effectively and efficiently and the better you are at making strong builds.
If you don't spend your money wisely anyway, not getting to spend it isn't much of a loss.
edgy arrow
okay speaking of money
idk if i’m crazy, but is there more of it in the game now
just getting back into the game and i seem to always be absurdly rich
gaunt fiber
It's because you don't buy the sandwiches
mossy zinc
No? You're probably just spending less on healing things and generally spend it more wisely, skip boss shops for free stuff more often, things like that.
edgy arrow
i mean, i’ve been running LC4 for ages
idk
prolly just forgotten how much money i used to get
actually no i’ve answered my own question
last time i was playing i was doing all that 50+ beo stuff
no dark foresight
mossy zinc
Adding to what I was saying about CF2... if you have 150 obols, and you buy a boon and choose Clean Kill over Hunter's Mark.... if instead the boon costs 270 and you can't afford it, you could say that's an improvement because now you're not wasting 150 obols. 
mossy zinc
It's on point lol.
edgy arrow
“eh you got less money but you prolly weren’t gonna be responsible with it anyway”
gaunt fiber
“eh you got less money but you prolly weren’t gonna be responsible with it anywa...
France be like
mossy zinc
lol
edgy arrow
lol
honest kernel
France be like
I was gonna say conservative politicians everywhere.
waxen relic
Considering that i now understand people taking Ri1 at 32 more. They weren't responsible with their mirror so it wasn't helping as much.
edgy arrow
lmao
heady olive
hahahha
edgy arrow
that’s hard to argue with tbh
tidal flame
tbf some people attempted 32 at not maxed mirror level so RI1 doesn't hurt that much
if you are poor, then you are poor
edgy arrow
can you take RI1 if you haven’t unlocked any of the last three talents
if so that’s a good deal
waxen relic
Need to unlock but not fill
edgy arrow
ah yeah, now i remember
mossy zinc
Also doesn't hurt much if you think rolling for Drunken Dash is a great idea and Olympian Favor is the way to go.
edgy arrow
olympian favour is a bit of a joke
for ages it was the only mirror talent i couldn’t remember the name of because like, when would that be useful information
mossy zinc
Who knows, not giving you the option to roll for Drunken Dash might accidentally force you into a good build with an Epic Dionysus' Aid you didn't want to take because you wanted to wait for Artemis' Aid (and roll for that, too, and take it at common).
shy plinth
Favor is +rare chance?
mossy zinc
Yes.
I think I finally remember all the current names and don't mix them up with Early Access names anymore lol.
edgy arrow
it’s all because they made common boons look so dull next to the colourful high rarity ones
mossy zinc
I'd just call them "rare+" and "epic+" and stuff for awhile.
tidal flame
dreamy eyes Nighty Night
edgy arrow
makes folks think rerolling for rarity is a good idea as well
waxen relic
So we could consider changing the guides from how to get easy clears to how to make people play responsibly? Good thing we don't have a lot of guides.
edgy arrow
yeah there a shockingly few high heat guides
mossy zinc
Schadenfreudic is no longer in the server, can't do anything at all for the pinned guide lol.
edgy arrow
prolly cause there’s only like 12 high heat players or something
mossy zinc
Guides take a long time to write.
edgy arrow
for sure
tidal flame
Schadenfreudic is no longer in the server, can't do anything at all for the pinn...
I honestly think that putting LC4 first and foremost as the "easiest" way to clear 32 heat is kinda a bait tbh
edgy arrow
at least, if you want them to be good
honest kernel
guess the issue is how diff it starts playing at different heats
although you could make milestone guides like 40, 45, 50 ect
edgy arrow
i started writing one myself a while back but then i realised it was hard and stopped
shy plinth
Guide to 32:
Step 1. Play a lot
Step 2. Accept that death will be a part of the experience
Step 3. Pick a pact to practice and learn it while working on step 2
Step 4. Don't do RI
honest kernel
also I feel like I'd have such a different view on 32 now than when I started playing
im much better at certain things now
like fo2
or td3
mossy zinc
I eventually figured I'd just collect some of the things I explained for aspects or whatever and just headline the posts with "Nyaanyaa's aspect x guide" or whatever and link that lol.
edgy arrow
I honestly think that putting LC4 first and foremost as the "easiest" way to cle...
yeah ngl i’m unsure of that as well
i raised it at the time
shy plinth
LC4 and FO2 are both really important to learn if you're going to push more than 32 yeah?
But for stopping at 32 neither seem necessary
edgy arrow
idk it’s not a huge deal probably; LC4 pacts are definitely easier for experienced folks
honest kernel
yep
mossy zinc
I think explaining how to build or use aspects effectively is more important than trying to explain pact decisions and stuff at high heat.
edgy arrow
and yeah if you wanna go higher for sure
mossy zinc
And 32 is flexible enough that I just use my go-to pact as a starting point and then see how people deal with it and recommend changes from there.
shy plinth
A lot of guides are written from the perspective of people who have already done the playstyle adjustments for things like LC4 so we take that for granted
tidal flame
I mean i think most people are used to DD with healing, LC4 with SD could be a big playstyle change and not everyone wants to go beyond 32.
honest kernel
an easy 32 pact for me might be too hard for people who dont have experience with pacts 🥴
so yeah builds is the way to go then
mossy zinc
My "easy" 32 pacts at this point are just whatever lets me clear fastest.
tidal flame
well, i guess it's time to draft another guide or at least put a caution to the pinned one?
edgy arrow
I mean i think most people are used to DD with healing, LC4 with SD could be a b...
yeah this
mossy zinc
That doesn't work for new players lol.
edgy arrow
you can still DD tank bosses at 32 instead of learning them properly
that’s what i did for my first couple of 32s
mossy zinc
well, i guess it's time to draft another guide or at least put a caution to the ...
I've always cautioned about the pinned one tbf.
tidal flame
yup xD
honest kernel
I think lc4 is ok for people who wanna learn high heat but its not necessary for the statue ye
mossy zinc
I def start with recommending LC4 Stubborn Defiance, but sometimes it just doesn't work at all for somebody.
I think more often than not, it's fine, though.
honest kernel
Im pretty sure my first 32 pact was insane for my standards nowdays
tidal flame
I def start with recommending LC4 Stubborn Defiance, but sometimes it just doesn...
how did Courtney do her first 32?
honest kernel
but it worked out for me back then
edgy arrow
yeah it’s complicated, and i think it depends on your approach to the game
tidal flame
it wasn't with LC4 was it?
edgy arrow
prolly not as simple as “xyz is easier for all new players”
waxen relic
Nothing wrong with trying to draw more people into high heat is there 
tidal flame
Nothing wrong with trying to draw more people into high heat is there <:squirtny...
no, but giving potentially too punishing pact to people also doesn't help :D
mossy zinc
Lady Aphrodite used exactly the pact from my guide and the Chiron build I recommend.
tidal flame
Lady Aphrodite used exactly the pact from my guide and the Chiron build I recomm...
I erm don't remember your pact
mossy zinc
Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
Eternal Rose > Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
waxen relic
Lady Aphrodite prolly played quite responsible too.
edgy arrow
the kind of “new player 32 guide” i wish existed is one that explained all the different variations in pacts and their various benefits and disadvantages, encouraging new players to experiment rather that proscribe a right way to play
the problem is, that’s not the kind of guide those players want lol
honest kernel
time to make it happen
edgy arrow
they want to just be told the “correct” pact or whatever
tidal flame
Lady Aphrodite prolly played quite responsible too.
not to take away her achievement but wight did an okay job guiding her also (except that athena DD blunder)
edgy arrow
this is why i stopped writing my guide, i realised its target audience was no one
mossy zinc
The problem is that you'd be explaining how this pact interacts with this one, how both of them interact when you add this third one....
edgy arrow
yup
no one wants to read my 80,000 word doctoral thesis of a heat guide for some reason can’t think why
tidal flame
no one wants to read my 80,000 word doctoral thesis of a heat guide for some rea...
i would
honest kernel
hmmm I'm thinking of making a pact+build gudie for each aspect
edgy arrow
lol
edgy arrow
yeah
mossy zinc
Also, telling somebody all that doesn't mean they have any idea which ones to pick... because they don't have the experience to make informed decisions with the information you gave them.
gaunt fiber
pengy did an all aspect quick guide
honest kernel
yeah but half of that was zap
honest kernel
I dont like zap smh
tidal flame
what is zap?
honest kernel
yeah
pseudo kernel
what is zap?
zeus attack, artemis special, poseidon dash
tidal flame
huh
mossy zinc
That guide IMO was... good enough? But not what I would recommend for a lot of them.
But like yeah, those are builds that can work.
honest kernel
time to make a guide but every build is me
edgy arrow
now i wanna make an all aspects guide but it’s just sea storm for every weapon
honest kernel
it just works!
mossy zinc
Every build is you? 
waxen relic
i just remembered that old guide that had quite a lot of pages but was unfortunately too bad to be used nowadays
honest kernel
:)
The new spiritual successor to Baba Is You?
You know, I thought they went in a weird direction after The World Ends With You, but Baba was received really well.
when I get off the grind I'll draft a guide idea and discuss it with you people
maybe
we can make somethin work
edgy arrow
how about an ME only guide but it’s always the worst application of ME
like eris ME but doom is on special
waxen relic
wow that went bad quickly
mossy zinc
Toffel's Rama build guide: "Just hand me the controller."
Toffel's Chiron build guide: "I'll do it for you. You'd probably die anyway."
honest kernel
waxen relic
We need a file with links to other files for every question but the advice in it comes from Hypnos 
mossy zinc
I like how half the advice experienced high heat players give to other experienced high heat players here would pass as a Hypnos quote.
edgy arrow
“try not stepping on traps” great advice i use it every day
pseudo kernel
I like how half the advice experienced high heat players give to other experienc...
true
tidal flame
HS is forever free
pseudo kernel
its the only advice you need
honest kernel
maybe hypnos is a high heat player
mossy zinc
Sometimes it really is tbh lol.
edgy arrow
maybe hypnos is a high heat player
i for one welcome our new high heat mascot
the greatest among us
mossy zinc
Like sometimes all you need is somebody telling you to stop trapping on traps like an idiot because you shouldn't be doing that at your level, and you're clearly not focusing and playing too sloppy.
Because you're playing on 45 like it's an any heat speedrun.
edgy arrow
not focusing and being sloppy is my play style
honest kernel
sometimes its not your day and you should take a break 
unique zephyr
the kind of “new player 32 guide” i wish existed is one that explained all the d...
That’s what I would have wanted tbh
mossy zinc
Just need a reminder sometimes that you're not playing on any heat and maybe you shouldn't mindlessly dash-attack into everything but actually pay some attention lol.
unique zephyr
But I did want to push above 32
narrow carbon
To get the 32 statue you can have a cursed pact. To progress in heat, a player needs to learn to not die when using different pacts, but the progression might be different for everyone. For me it was learning the new enemy patterns in MM, BP2 and EM3, then learning FO2, LC4, HS1, HL5. Now working on RI2. Maybe someday EM4. I don't think there's so much a "guide" but more like "which pacts do you want to learn first".
unique zephyr
I think some stuff isn’t obvious like why RI1 hurts so much so like give information about what to make decisions based on
My 32 pact is similar to RidiuclousHat’s
edgy arrow
yeah doing 32 with the intent to push higher and doing 32 once to get the statue and then you’re done are fundamentally different goals requiring fundamentally different approaches
unique zephyr
It’s not obvious to a new player why RI1 is worse than say AP1
Although both suck at 32
honest kernel
the 32 guide where we yell at people to start using family favourite
unique zephyr
I was a PS gamer in my 16 heat days
mossy zinc
I give very different advice to players who want to actually get into high heat than players who just want to do 32 and that's it.
unique zephyr
At least I started using dark foresight early
unique zephyr
I think it’s because I determined rare isn’t that much better than common enough for more crappy rooms
edgy arrow
i just like it for memes
unique zephyr
I haven’t heard the PS sound in a long time
edgy arrow
and it’s kinda fun
mossy zinc
Olympian Favor is actually decent. It's just that Dark Foresight is broken lol.
unique zephyr
Also 40 > 25 in terms of numbers
edgy arrow
yeah pretty much
mossy zinc
Perfectly honest, I never noticed Privileged Status making a sound.
mossy zinc
I've read about it here.
honest kernel
same as nya actually
unique zephyr
I can understand developers wanting meta currency to be less common when you no longer need it
honest kernel
did they add a sound later maybe
mossy zinc
But I've never noticed it in game.
honest kernel
bc I havent used ps in a long time
edgy arrow
yeah i haven’t noticed the sound either lol
unique zephyr
I vaguely remember it
edgy arrow
i’ll have to pay attention next time
mossy zinc
Maybe they did. But I take Privileged Status on Chiron, and I never noticed a sound. But I also don't listen for one.
narrow carbon
I find the sound is easier to notice than the icon - to know that PS is active
mossy zinc
So maybe I just blend it out because it's not a cue I need to dodge or that tells me where enemies are, things like that.
edgy arrow
yeah
this game looks and sounds so amazing that sometimes i feel bad for tuning half of it out half the time
honest kernel
I don't like the ost that much tbh
mossy zinc
Hmmm. I don't think "blend it out" makes sense in English, that's a German expression. It's way too hot here for my brain to work lol.
honest kernel
but I also dont bother with changing it
its not intrusive
English uses "tune it out," it's a very similar phrase.
edgy arrow
I don't like the ost that much tbh
i am shocked and dismayed by this ngl
honest kernel
dunno I loved transistor and bastion ost but not this
lament of orpheus is good but I only hear it for 2 seconds
unique zephyr
Maybe you have heard it so many times from heat grinding?
edgy arrow
that’s fair, it does very much have its own flavour
i mean, i very much disagree
but art is subjective and all that
honest kernel
nah I never liked it that much to begin with but I dont hate it
its just kinda whatever compared to me buying the other ost ect
unique zephyr
I disagree too but it’s very metal focused
honest kernel
wouldnt listen to it outside of the game
what song outside of em4 is metal I love metal lol
mossy zinc
I like the OSTs from the previous games more than Hades.
But I like the Hades OST.
It works perfectly for the game.
honest kernel
Hades' OST is a pretty straightforward rock album, when you get to the back half of all of the songs.
I should replay transistor with all limiters on or something
edgy arrow
can recommend
honest kernel
pseudo high heat time
mossy zinc
Forbidden Knowledge is my favorite SGG song. That's from Pyre.
mossy zinc
Can't say if I've listened to Bastion or Transistor more.
tidal flame
it is weird
honest kernel
I still think you could argue that Pyre is SGG's best game.
sgg really outdid themselves with hades gameplay I havent stuck to a game for this long in a while
That narrative, though.
edgy arrow
i think hades is basically objectively SGGs best game
tidal flame
same
honest kernel
hades overall plot is my least fav tho
edgy arrow
but i agree that you can prolly argue that pyre is better
honest kernel
although I like the chars
Hades does have the weakest plot, I agree.
Mind you, "weakest" is a relative term.
edgy arrow
yeah pyre’s strength is kind of where hades is weakest
honest kernel
"Krillin is the weakest Z Fighter." "Can't he benchpress a planet?" "He's the weakest Z Fighter."
tidal flame
I stucked with Hades because of the gameplay tbh. The story is a nice bonus.
edgy arrow
imo hades isn’t really trying to have a plot in the same way the others are
honest kernel
Yeah, it's more here to justify the gameplay loop, and then Greg said "Well, if we're gonna be here..."
edgy arrow
i mean, i like hades story, but it isn’t really very plot focused
edgy arrow
it’s got a central plot, but half of it is unrelated tangents
which is intentional
very different kind of effect to a more classic plot structure like transistor or bastion
edgy arrow
"Krillin is the weakest Z Fighter." "Can't he benchpress a planet?" "He's the we...
missed this, and yeh it’s pretty important
edgy arrow
lol that’s a way more succinct way of saying what i was trying to say
mossy zinc
it’s got a central plot, but half of it is unrelated tangents
They're not unrelated. The overarching theme is family.
edgy arrow
it’s a character piece
fair, yeah that was poorly phrased
less directly related tangents? idk
frigid igloo
yes
edgy arrow
they absolutely all fit in, but it’s more sprawling
mossy zinc
The first boss is three sisters, Theseus and Asterius think of one another as brothers, the final boss is dad, and even "that Hydra had a family."
agile crane
I love how this place is “high heat strategies” but the most heat I can use is 1 heat
frigid igloo
I wonder how they could have made the plot better 🤔
mossy zinc
Well, at 1 Heat you probably won't need advice from high heat players specifically.
agile crane
I wanna unlock the higher heats lol
mossy zinc
You can use them now.
edgy arrow
lol yeah good news
agile crane
well yeah, but there’s no reason to
mossy zinc
You just will only get the rewards from 1 Heat for now.
edgy arrow
you can do 64 heat right now
mossy zinc
The reason is whatever is fun for you.
edgy arrow
spread your wings and die chamber 3 fly
mossy zinc
What if speedrunners are all just players who die a lot in Tartarus but want to convince you they did that on purpose.
edgy arrow
what if heat pushers are all just players that die a lot in tartarus and want to have an excuse
mossy zinc
No.
High heat players want to die a lot in Tartarus.
That's different.
But we're lazy and don't want to put effort into dying in Tartarus.
edgy arrow
hmm
mossy zinc
So we raise the heat until the game does it for us.
edgy arrow
yeah that checks out
frigid igloo
probably
mossy zinc
But you wanted to die to TD3, that's why you took it.
frigid igloo
But you *wanted* to die to TD3, that's why you took it. <:squirtdevious:47212405...
big brain
edgy arrow
yeah it used to be easy to die to TD3
now i need to use all sorts of other heat to do it it’s the worst
frigid igloo
lightning on rama special or hangover?
mossy zinc
@tidal flame didn't you make that high heat meme with that boy on the bicycle? You know which one I mean, I think.
edgy arrow
lightning on rama special or hangover?
why no both
mossy zinc
Or maybe it was for AP2.
mossy zinc
Kinda still applies for high heat players though lol.
frigid igloo
xD
mossy zinc
lightning on rama special or hangover?
Doom.
frigid igloo
:o
edgy arrow
then you can do raME
mossy zinc
All three are decent.
edgy arrow
the greatest build in the world
frigid igloo
I saw tailesque 60 heat so I was wondering if lightning was good
edgy arrow
lightning is fine
tidal flame
<@!162305901892599809> didn't you make that high heat meme with that boy on the ...
i think so let me look
frigid igloo
Foxhope your pfp is adorable I love mudkip
tidal flame
Foxhope your pfp is adorable I love mudkip
aw thanks <3
mossy zinc
lol that one's not bad, either.
waxen relic
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/852620636841050133/20210610204818_1.jpg lost tooth about 2 seconds before winning 
waxen relic
Mostly controllable i think, at least Hades himself
but you need damage even more than you need it anyhow
i had a lot of time going into the fight
gaunt fiber
Yeah timer seems tough
magic pier
Awesome!
kindred panther
i always have problems on the 5:00 timer getting through elysium fast enough. Any pointers?
tidal flame
Save your summons and spend them here.
I usually have one for miniboss and one for the bosses.
Other than that just take every room you get I guess.
Also you can prep Elysium by blazing through Asphodel.
kindred panther
wdym take every room i get
kindred panther
like a shop?
i always take the friend in elysium. i usually don't take it in the first two though
next acorn
If you take the first two friends you can save time then and thus have more time in Elysium
kindred panther
true
edgy arrow
you skip eurydice?
yeah i would not recommend doing that lol
but yeah a lot of it’s saving time in the other zones; if you only have 5 mins for elysium it’s probs gonna be rough
chaos chambers can obviously be dangerous in ely, but you prioritise them in aspho/tart as well
and pause when making choices if you aren’t already doing that
kindred panther
yeah i am doing that most the time. i had usually skipped eurydice and sysiphus if i had a boon to choose instead but i will try going through them as well
tidal flame
yeah i would go as far as saying to never skip eurydice, no matter what the other options are
unique zephyr
I think only thing I’d take over Eurydice is mid shop if I had money and if I had something in mind to buy or needed a boon to sell
Getting a choice between story room and mid shop is kind of bad luck
edgy arrow
oh yeah trials are worth mentioning as well
if you have an "always take trials" policy (like i did for a long time) its worth taking into account how much time they can take
kindred panther
if by trial you mean the two-boon rooms, i NEVER skip those
edgy arrow
a late ely trial can eat up a lot of time
heady olive
ely trials are scary
next acorn
I usually do in tart
heady olive
and tart trials make me time out sometimes too :(
agile crane
I usually do in tart
The Tartarus trials are the easiest to do imo since Tartarus has the weakest enemies
heady olive
witches bad
edgy arrow
part of its the danger, but part of it is just the time
kindred panther
shielded witches are some of the most annoying enemies in the game
edgy arrow
chamber 22 aspho trail with the wrong spawns can eat up time as well
i'm not saying never take them, but its something to think about
heady olive
aspho is more forgiving at least
agile crane
the demigorgon (I think that’s what the mini boss is called) is probably the easier mini boss of Asphodel
heady olive
since less chambers
edgy arrow
eh, in terms of time aspho is actually pretty harsh
agile crane
aspho is more forgiving at least
I hate the lava in asphodel
heady olive
huh rly
kindred panther
i think the barge is easiest in aspho
agile crane
Takes away so much HP
next acorn
witches are bad in any biome
heady olive
nvr timed out there
agile crane
i think the barge is easiest in aspho
The barge is just time consuming
edgy arrow
you don't time out in aspho because less chambers yeah, but bad spawns can eat up loads of time and then you have less for ely
heady olive
ah
edgy arrow
i think a lot of time people who're timing out look at elysium, but asphodel can have highly variable times and its often a cause
shy plinth
The transitions for the barge are really time intensive
Even if you clear other rooms faster you don't have to wait for your ship to come in
edgy arrow
if you get mostly free rooms in aspho you've got loads of time for ely, but if you get loads of massive rooms with wavemakers jumping all over the place and leave with 30 seconds on the clock its gonna be much harder
kindred panther
i'm talking about the barge with the big fat shield enemy not the little ones
shy plinth
The boat has animations leaving port and docking
It's 5 seconds or so on each end that you cannot do anything about
heady olive
thats true
edgy arrow
faster than i can the gorgon
are you summoning on gorgon?
heady olive
i realised my runs where ive made it through ely, ive had 2 mins extra time lol
edgy arrow
yeah i didn't really think about it too much until i started speedrunning and realised how variable my aspho times are
shy plinth
If you get the right rooms you kinda just skip aspho
The ananke beo run is a great example
edgy arrow
ananke doesn't have the same rng as normal people
shy plinth
Some people are blessed
shy plinth
What are you summoning on
edgy arrow
yeah gorgon is a prime summon candidate
kindred panther
hmm
shy plinth
You can peel the shield off both of them in one hit
shy plinth
I usually summon on elites, heroes, and dad
Lernie is nice if you have an extra but usually you don't
I guess I don't usually summon on sneak
Always doomstone tho
heady olive
r yall using meg summon
edgy arrow
i'm trying to stop summoning on doomstone
shy plinth
But it has so much health
edgy arrow
yeah ik lol
kindred panther
i summon on the mini boss if it's the bull, the barge, and... dad is pretty much it. the other two i just use whenever
edgy arrow
i don't think its worth it tho
shy plinth
It probably isn't
edgy arrow
can save more time summoning in a styx chamber instead
shy plinth
And yeah I'd consider being more intentional with your summons
Butterfly ball also a great summon
edgy arrow
for sure
kindred panther
I don't summon on any of the first level stuff
edgy arrow
and defs summon on heroes
kindred panther
sneak and doomstone go down so fast
edgy arrow
r yall using meg summon
yeah
kindred panther
the bombers suck though
shy plinth
Do you usually leave tart with a spare minute or better
edgy arrow
i summon on sneak if i'm playing chiron
shy plinth
Because otherwise you time out
edgy arrow
because rip chiron
kindred panther
i usually leave tart with barely any time left if i play on 5:00
shy plinth
You probs have some opportunity for general movement optimization
4 minutes per biome is a good target
heady olive
hmm i should try meg out
edgy arrow
meg good
heady olive
can u use it against the other furies
shy plinth
Some people use antos if they're pushing hard and want to kill furies but I think meg is just better almost always
edgy arrow
that's one of the reasons some folks like antos yeah
but i don't really buy it personally
shy plinth
There are some clear spots where antos is nice but meg is so fast
And you can reliably position her
edgy arrow
i think antos has some weird niches like extreme heat GY where furies is actually bonkers hard
but otherwise meg is just so solid
edgy arrow
no
shy plinth
Not instant but very fast
edgy arrow
^
heady olive
hm
shy plinth
Antos has that pause before each hit that kinda sucks
shy plinth
I feel like there's a small one before the second hit, but yeah, the pause before the first one is an oof
heady olive
hmm
cos i keep missing my antos summon on sneak
well the extra dmg from meg should be quite helpful
idk but antos does 3k if theres only one enemy so like
shy plinth
Do both hits always land?
edgy arrow
the issue is that meg is just easier to use reliably in a variety of situations
shy plinth
Yeah
If you know the positioning at least
Meg hits perpendicular to where you're facing
So like if you press up and summon at the start of heroes fight it makes a straight horizontal line
And hits both
If you don't tap up you whiff
heady olive
DC2 :((
shy plinth
Ew
edgy arrow
yeah heroes alone is a great reason to use meg
that's 2k extra damage
if you're fast you can strip DC2 in the window before meg hits
heady olive
hmm
edgy arrow
its actually easy with some weapons (like rama)
shy plinth
Rama is cheating that doesn't count
shy plinth
I mean lightning fists or eris you could do it
edgy arrow
others its very difficult, but they're often ones where DC2 is super hard anyway
stripping DC1 before it hits is easy with anything
heady olive
meg is probably more useful in miniboss or hallway fights
like in styx miniboss fights
shy plinth
Very useful there, very nice against butterfly ball, power couple, barge
edgy arrow
yeah MM styx minibosses is another really good situation for meg
really hard to get both with antos with summons around
shy plinth
And also it is very satisfying to press a button to end the lernie fight in phase 3
But a good build shouldn't need to do that ideally
edgy arrow
yeah but its a good fallback
heady olive
ye
edgy arrow
if you're on 3 hp or whatever
shy plinth
If phase 2 was six blue heads
heady olive
what is a blue head
shy plinth
The Alecto of Lernie heads
heady olive
oo
edgy arrow
the worst part is that they can't be hit while they're in the air before they smash
what i can't shoot up now? wtf is this bow for
mossy zinc
i always take the friend in elysium. i usually don't take it in the first two t...
If you see miniboss before mid-shop in Elysium, always take the miniboss. If you see miniboss after mid-shop, skip it the first time, but take it the second time.
That will save you time on average because it pushes the miniboss back, and later chambers normally take longer, but miniboss rooms aren't affected by the ramping chamber difficulty.
shy plinth
Dodging chamber 34 naked brightswords is a good call
mossy zinc
This video is also decent for getting you started with going faster. https://youtu.be/z3Mmoo4oTKU
mossy zinc
The risk of having to pick between friendship room and miniboss is a little bit higher, but it saves you time more often than not.
narrow carbon
After many 50 attempts, 40 feels pretty comfy. RI0 CF0 so strong!
unique zephyr
That will save you time on average because it pushes the miniboss back, and late...
Why do I always take mini boss before mid shop in elysium instead of later to push it back? Does it not push the chamber back if I skip it before mid shop and if so why not
mossy zinc
If you skip a miniboss before mid-shop, there's a high chance you'll be forced to choose between mid-shop and friendship room or mid-shop and miniboss or friendship room and miniboss.
So you can end up having to skip one of them a lot.
Which you don't wanna do.
honest kernel
good advice
midnight rivet
And also it is very satisfying to press a button to end the lernie fight in phas...
Hey the hearthstone and podcast guy! Listening to u is why I got into this game
Was wondering what u guys like with aspect of Rama? I never played it until today and it seems really fun. I saw dated guides saying use Zeus on special but it’s been underwhelming at 15 heat and up. Was it patched or sometbing
true fable
its amazing
uhh
mostly you want to focus on setting up shared suffering for big attack damage
are you using the special only?
honest kernel
if you use zeus special only its gonna be average at best
hmm maybe you're thinking about early bloodprice special that one was very op with zeus
they nerfed the special and buffed the attack in 1.0
midnight rivet
Idk I was just googling Rama builds and all the Reddit posts weee zeus on special. Which seems weird to me. I’ve had more success with doom on special and then percentage multiplier attack
midnight rivet
are you using the special only?
For the Zeus one I was but obviously this kinda is underwhelming on boss fights
honest kernel
ngl reddit is prob gonna just give you some randos who share their low heat builds
if you wanna do high heat you cant ignore the attack
true fable
you cant ignore the attack yeah
honest kernel
zeus on special is after all a very easy mode to run this weapon on
true fable
your attack is boss damage
honest kernel
so im not suprised you would get it recommended for starting out
unique zephyr
Artemis is ideal on attack
waxen relic
you shouldn't ignore attack, yes, can is sth different
unique zephyr
Twin shot is the best hammer
Perfect shot is good too
The other meta hammers are hard to use
honest kernel
also dio on special is more base dmg than zeus; zeus only gets good with his T2 boons
midnight rivet
Oh I didn’t realize this was the high heat sub. I’m just slowly working to clear each weapon at higher and higher heat. I’m at 14 with the bow. Just tried Rama for the first time. I’ve been using doom special and either Artemis or Athena on attack, but am just wondering if there’s a nice combo people liek to chase I guess
unique zephyr
Rama doesn’t really do “combos”
That’s the nice thing, no duo reliance
Or one of the nice things about Rama anyway
midnight rivet
So just tag everyone and hit everyone with powrr shot?
unique zephyr
That’s the Rama playstyle yeah
midnight rivet
I’ll try dio on special and some different attack options
unique zephyr
Special can be good room clear if you get a decent one
midnight rivet
Too much Zeus with rail
unique zephyr
Artemis attack is ideal but if you aren’t doing artemis start any good percent based works
honest kernel
if you do dio special look out fopr bad influence its so so strong with ramas playstyle
unique zephyr
Hunter dash good if you are comfortable giving up divine dash
honest kernel
aphro atk also works
unique zephyr
^
midnight rivet
Awesome. K looks like I’ve been on the right track then. Was just thinking I was missing some big playstyle that I wasn’t considering
Like I don’t mind doing Artemis/ares cuz I also get hunting blades occasionally but I’m gonna go with a bigger focus on my attack damage and just using the special as a means to tag everyone
midnight rivet
Thanks for the advice. Will try dio or Demeter on special and see how that works out too! Crazy how this game always provides soemtbing new. Was playing since November and never touched this aspect or Lucifer till this week lol
waxen relic
FO0 
honest kernel
dam
waxen relic
is it lvl1 chiron?
spice lava
Not this time, I used lvl 1 Chiron only for 32
I tend to use shackle for tart because of AP2 but maybe I should just resetfest until I have something on the special
Wearing earring feels very useful during Aspho/Elysium because even if my special is replaced by any boon, the 40% global dmg can back up
I just didn't expect the special to come that late
waxen relic
yeah i've been thinking shackle to start is only good if you'd consider keeping it on till the end
mossy zinc
Artemis attack is ideal but if you aren’t doing artemis start any good percent b...
Is it?
true fable
tbh i prefer epic aphro attack on any slow attacking weapon without natural crit chance
but its just hard to guarantee epic
unique zephyr
I’m not going to argue artemis vs aphro
Both work for where they are at heat wise
I could be wrong about artemis tbh
For AP1 RI2 you have two possible starts with arty
Which is the main reason I chose her when I tried to do 50
mossy zinc
I think it's important to be careful with words like "ideal".
mossy zinc
AP1 Heartbreak Strike is still perfectly fine. AP2 is where the odds become annoying.
unique zephyr
What would make Aphrodite better in what circumstances
I don’t know the nuances actually regarding Rama
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike is better out of the gate, the question is what would help Deadly Strike break even or take over.
spice lava
Are we like more relying on a good hammer at Tartarus with Rama heartbreak strike?
heady olive
thats the most likely way to break even
but good hammers are multiplicative not additive heh
mossy zinc
Twin and Triple first hammer do more for Heartbreak Strike than for Deadly Strike because Heartbreak has better % damage. It's Perfect and Point-Blank Shot that do more for Deadly Strike.
Deadly Strike also benefits more from Chaos boons, Jerkies, and Hunter Dash if you happen to get that, too.
But this is for average damage.
85% of your Attacks will do less damage than Heartbreak Strike.
Hunter's Mark doesn't really help with that because your rate of Attack is so low.
Pressure Points actually does more Heartbreak Strike than for Deadly Strike, too.
mossy zinc
Shackle doesn't have Weak nor Heartbreak Strike's pom scaling.
It's only two poms to get from +50% to +84% lol.
And that's the other benefit that Heartbreak Strike offers: Weak.
And then she has Smoldering Air, Curse of Longing, or Low Tolerance. Smoldering Air is broken, and the other two are always good for bosses.
Lady Artemis has Lightning Rod or Splitting Headache.
For the gods you'd want on Special.
Splitting Headache is decent enough and can get silly with Hunter's Mark. Lightning Rod is whatever.
unique zephyr
Should I take duos in consideration on RI2 still
mossy zinc
Yes and no.
waxen relic
I frequently get Duos at RI4, but what matters is being open to highroll without going out of the way vs not
mossy zinc
You shouldn't hunt for them like you would at any heat, but it can still be good to leave your options open.
spice lava
Depends of you clear plan. If you already use specific keepsakes like having Arty/Aphro along the way, you're already praying to meet Heart Rend
mossy zinc
I've seen plenty of ME runs happen with AP2 RI0, fewer with AP2 RI1+, but they still happen.
There's also the fact that you're not trying to make every single run work.
You're just trying to get any run at all that works out.
If you never high-roll for strong combos, you can never luck into a run with strong combos.
waxen relic
The amount of Duos you get correlates with the amount of boons you get and AP levels. the amount of boons isn't a set amount on whatever Pact you're using, sometimes you fill all cores with AP1 RI1+ sometimes you don't etc.
mossy zinc
Also remember to take free stuff over shops if you're not pressed for time.
true fable
Splitting Headache is decent enough and can get silly with Hunter's Mark. Lightn...
funnily enough splitting headache doesnt allow hangover to crit iirc
mossy zinc
It does.
I think it doesn't work right when you use the codex mod.
People need to stop using that to test things.
true fable
that could be it
spice lava
The Boyo's training room would be good with a mod-like upgrade
mossy zinc
It's more fun to do a run to test things.
spice lava
If you have time maybe, if it's just about comparing different DPS builds, a good training room would be enough
mossy zinc
A run is quick, though.
unique zephyr
Would you take a video and then look at it to see if you see hangover crit?
It’s hard to see the exclamation marks sometimes for numbers that look small and usually I don’t really pay attention to the numbers in fast paced combat
spice lava
If I need 2 videos of quick runs to have a solid comparison between 2 builds it starts to be not quick 
mossy zinc
Go faster. 
shy plinth
Hey the hearthstone and podcast guy! Listening to u is why I got into this game
Hey glad you're here 🙂
tidal flame
nice
gaunt fiber
RidiculousHat, the influencer
mossy zinc
This but CP0 should be good for 50. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/836223465702817792/Hades_2400.png?width=791&height=445
tame mist
ok so if aphrodite keepsake didnt exist, what keepsake would i use
next acorn
pink
tame mist
This but CP0 should be good for 50. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725...
oh god, em4
i can try
for real tho what keepsake should i use in tart, special keepsake or attack keepsake
mossy zinc
I just told you.
gaunt fiber
Arty is good. Some people like to start dio special too
tame mist
I just told you.
yeah but... ok
gaunt fiber
Idk if I would recommend a special start though
mossy zinc
Toffel and I both did start for 50 and 51.
gaunt fiber
But the base damage can carry you for quite some time
tame mist
Arty is good. Some people like to start dio special too
poggers, im not crazy, dio start all the way
next acorn
why dont you want to start rose?
tame mist
"hey mom, some french dude i met online says im normal"
gaunt fiber
why dont you want to start rose?
Arty is comfy, you can take either the attack or the dash
mossy zinc
It's not like getting Heartbreak Strike is hard with AP1.
gaunt fiber
And that's good if you run RI2 because no roll
This is why I started arty on Guan Yu too, resetting for one boon is tiring when you don't have any roll
mossy zinc
You don't have to take RI2 at 50.
next acorn
GY 50 
gaunt fiber
Quite the experience yeah
RI2 being common at 50
Really depends if your aspect can bear AP and/or DC
AP2 I mean
honest kernel
I didnt start with aphro keepsake I started w dio
tbh
and i got aphro later
dio just starts becoming unviable on ap2 unless you seed
waxen relic
Betrayals happening here :0
honest kernel
:0
gaunt fiber
you like dio special that much?
honest kernel
unique zephyr
This but CP0 should be good for 50. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725...
How well does Rama handle EM4?
quartz mantle
It's not a shield but it's also not a sword
unique zephyr
So it’s good for a non beo aspect then
quartz mantle
It does a lot of damage and you can deal damage to summons and Dad at the same time easily with special tagging
unique zephyr
It's not a shield but it's also not a sword
Fists with EM4 also seems like a nightmare tbh
mossy zinc
Rama can just skip a lot of the fight if things go well.
quartz mantle
But it does take a good amount of knowledge of when you can try and powershot
If you get greedy and overextend you can end up taking a spear throw to the face
But that's true for almost every aspect
mossy zinc
And EM4 means it's much easier to get a busted build.
quartz mantle
Yea EM4 removes the need for pacts like RI or AP2
or CF
But you almost need that busted build to make it past EM4
Non-EM4 Dad is like a victory lap but EM4 Dad is a genuinely challenging final fight for a run
mossy zinc
I think so long as you can get Greatest Reflex or Hyper Sprint and a reasonable amount of HP, you should have a decent chance without having to grind the fight a lot.
gaunt fiber
Fists with EM4 also seems like a nightmare tbh
:)
mossy zinc
Other things like Smoldering Air + Second Wind can also substitute for dashes.
next acorn
lol
solar orbit
he is a god amongst men
quartz mantle
I like the idea of ranking aspect's ability to deal with EM4 on a scale from Zag sword to Beowolf
next acorn
Are they both not just very bad though?
quartz mantle
If Beo was bad at EM4 I wouldn't have a 50 heat clear right now lmao
pseudo kernel
Good job
next acorn
I'll see myself out
shy plinth
Gilga clearly OP
pseudo kernel
Yeah
shy plinth
next acorn
What makes zag sword worse than the other ones?
honest kernel
it doesnt do anything I mean
next acorn
but like what makes it worse than nemesis
quartz mantle
no arthur gimmicks
pseudo kernel
No crit
honest kernel
nem has crits tho
pseudo kernel
Speed
next acorn
so its just better at EM4 because its better
quartz mantle
I mean yea
pseudo kernel
Better weapons are better at doing hard things
gaunt fiber
I tried EM4 Gilga
The dashes really threw me off
and the weapon does not feel like Malphon at all so my practice was completely useless
next acorn
What makes a wepon good at EM4 besides just being good wepon?
quartz mantle
Being a shield
gaunt fiber
Dealing a huge amount of damage in a short time/safety /both
quartz mantle
Having lots of single target damage
like Chiron isn't a great weapon for high heat in general but it does great boss damage
unique zephyr
Thanks, @mossy zinc ! It seems more fun to have a great build vs a hard boss than to deal with routine inspection 🙂
gaunt fiber
I'd say it's great tbh
In a sense that you can keep shackle and be fine
Better than Zag bow and Hera for sure
quartz mantle
Shackle EM4 yes
gaunt fiber
heee
mossy zinc
I wouldn't go so far as using "fun" and "EM4" in the same sentence.
gaunt fiber
Let's say high heat and not EM4
unique zephyr
40 was fun
gaunt fiber
but if it's EM4 you either have a great build and chiron destroys it
unique zephyr
Haven’t done 40 sword yet though
gaunt fiber
or RI2 and you gucci because normal dad is cake
Destroying here is maybe an exaggeration
since Dad is most likely the one able to obliterate you
quartz mantle
Yea Chiron needs 2 specific hammers to be optimal plus at least 1 duo
quartz mantle
Well to get to the point where you destroy EM4 I feel like you need both Concentrated and Relentless
Although I also do not use Chiron like ever so
That's something worth considering
spice lava
Because of phase 1 of EM4, I'd say that an "good" aspect needs to be globally fine against most of the minibosses
quartz mantle
It's not like getting Heartbreak Strike is hard with AP1.
I am appalled and disgusted by this betrayal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/410616262847365124/853075486593908736/unknown.png
Just rolled twice into the same exact screen
Don't gamble
Ok this is cyber bullying now
I have taken three (3) Aphrodite boons
Rolled a total of like
4 times
Each time Heartbreak Strike was on the screen it was crossed out
next acorn
Sadge
fickle heron
I am appalled and disgusted by this betrayal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachm...
Questions regarding this. Heartbreak Strike is always the first boon in the listed 3 right? Or rather the game will always put it on first choice if it‘s in the choice of 3 right?
The first boon of choice is crossed out in this case, will the first boon still be crossed out after rerolling or is it possible for the second boon to be crossed out now instead?
quartz mantle
I haven't looked into how AP works with rerolls but yea Heartbreak Strike was always the top boon
fickle heron
yeah, so if the crossed out boon doesn’t change with rerolling, it was impossible to get heartbreak strike there
I am not using AP often either, so I dunno if this is true for sure
next acorn
AP would be so much nicer if it just didn't show you what was crossed out lol
honest kernel
I should pay attention to how ap crosses out things 🤨
waxen relic
yeah, so if the crossed out boon doesn’t change with rerolling, it was impossibl...
Whats crossed out changes upon rerolling. Game isn't that badly coded.
However AP doesn't care about the reroll effect of 'one different choice' which leads to getting same choices again.
unique zephyr
One thing is that humans perceive true randomness as less “random” than they’d like
honest kernel
how do ppl play with ap2 arrrg T.T
spice lava
Ask Retrash, he can destroy Hades with a spoon I'd say
If you expect nothing from AP2 you can't be disappointed 😏
honest kernel
I don't expect anything my build is just too weak
and that means im not fast enough for td3
spice lava
Still on Rama 55?
honest kernel
yeah
td3 makes me rush and die a lot in elysium tbh
shackle is ok tbh
just need to find an ok attsck boon till elysium
spice lava
I'd tend to try arty starter with Rama
because if you find arty atk or hunter dash, early can be fine
- arty being locked during your run among the 4 gods
honest kernel
I did try arty a bunch before
neither starter feels rly good
its just hard tbh
at the end of the day
quartz mantle
I was doing some AP2 50 heat runs starting with Shackle until I got an attack boon and then switching to earring for better damage
The way AP works in my mind is you give up parts of your build and therefore need to find substitute ways of dealing damage, ie. Shackle and Earring over god keepsakes and Acorn/tooth
Because you can’t use safety keepsakes it forces you to be better at the game and not rely on those as much
And because you can’t rely on getting the same boons or hammer every time you’re forced to adapt to different builds
honest kernel
I'm not confident im doing maxy without acorn tbh
the combo of ap2 and ri2 might be the real killer
rama with hammers and shackle is prob good enough on its own
so far I didnt even die to bosses tbh
its rooms
quartz mantle
Yea RI is a real killer when you already have AP2
And yea doing EM4 without Acorn is a real killer but hopefully by that point you have a decent enough build to be able to beat the timer with Acorn
honest kernel
ah when i said maxy I meant everything but em4 on him
if I did em4 I could take off either ri2 or ap2 but I hate em4
mossy zinc
@honest kernel you could drop to AP1 and do 52.
honest kernel
I did do that for 1 session but didnt make it 😔
edgy arrow
lmao
that's how you know you're a true high heat player
"oh i lost at this heat, i wonder if i can beat a higher heat"
relatable content
heady olive
yea if u add TD2 when going from 50 to 52 heat, it trains u to go faster
just a small tip :)
spice lava
midnight rivet
Is there a general mirror setup that people go for regardless of weapon when attempting 32 heat?
Is usually use all the red ones with the final four being green, but I’m guessing privileged status is often a good mirror trait to try to force. Just don’t know when that’s optimal vs the alternate
jaunty falcon
Usually stubborn defiance if you use lasting consequences 4, also legacy/pride depends on the build
midnight rivet
Ah ok. I just relishes there’s an hour video in the pin and he’s going over thre mirror so I’ll check thst out too! Thanks
narrow carbon
Usually God’s Pride unless your target build needs a specific Duo/Legendary (like Merciful End). Stygian/Infernal Soul depending on whether you’re using a cast build/aspect (also depends on which cast). Usually Shadow Presence unless using Rail. Sometimes Ruthless Reflex for Gilgamesh.
Abyssal Blood if your build doesn’t do much Attack or Special
midnight rivet
Thanks! It’s gonna take a little more research and planning on my part. Most I’ve ever did was 16 or so and I totally ignore a ton of the pact of punishments
So jumping to 32 will be a challenge. I also have little experience with hestia. I usually spend most my time with the bow or Demeter fists or eris rail
next acorn
You dont need to use Hestia if your not comfortable with it
edgy arrow
eris is a fantastic aspect for 32, use that instead if you’re more comfortable with it
dem fists isn’t bad either
also re: mirror advice, idk if you’re doing this already but always use Dark Foresight and always use Family Favourite
midnight rivet
also re: mirror advice, idk if you’re doing this already but always use Dark For...
Ok
shy plinth
Thanks! It’s gonna take a little more research and planning on my part. Most I’v...
I strongly recommend moving up the pact in chunks and not jumping straight to 32, it's a really significant leap and there are smaller packages of pacts that you can get used to first
You can add 4 in LC4 to get used to stubborn defiance, you can do forced overtime to go in 3 heat chunks or just do both at once if you're really crazy
And you can crank up tight deadline if you're not used to the 5 minute timer
midnight rivet
I strongly recommend moving up the pact in chunks and not jumping straight to 32...
Yeah. I’m used tot eh timer but not used to LC at all or the one where the guys do more damage. I’m gonna try a few runs with those maxed then pair em all together
shy plinth
You don't need to push hard labor for what it's worth
I found that one pretty difficult since I play fairly aggressively
midnight rivet
Also just narrowing down a weapon choice. I’ve used rail a lot although thst style bores me. Fist is best for me but seems so hard to try to force merciful end
shy plinth
It's not too bad if you go god's legacy and start with athena keepsake
midnight rivet
You don't need to push hard labor for what it's worth
Ah. Ok. Lemme see where else I can accommodate for that
shy plinth
Take the special first over the dash
This is the pact I used
It works for just about every weapon with practice
If you don't want to take any ranks in FO you can max out HL and put the rest into DC if your weapon allows or CF if it doesn't
midnight rivet
I’ll have to get used to forces overtime
shy plinth
It is a significant difficulty increase
warm dagger
FO is something that I would take in the begining just to get used to it.
midnight rivet
Kk so with fast weapons take dc and slower more frontloaded nurse take the other
shy plinth
I mean I should clarify that DC isn't a great pact
If you do FO instead you don't need DC at all
But if you're on eris or demeter or rama then DC is way less punishing
warm dagger
It's been awhile... Is DC the shield?
shy plinth
Yes
warm dagger
Yeah fits eats DC by dent of sheer volume I think.
shy plinth
It deals with it easily but not freely
midnight rivet
So you feel in general FO is a better pact to get used to over HL? I have no immediate plans to scale up to 50
shy plinth
Difference is noticeable
I found FO much easier
I tried HL first and struggled badly at 32
midnight rivet
Ok
shy plinth
24 was my comfort level until I fully adjusted to LC4 and FO2
bright mango
So you feel in general FO is a better pact to get used to over HL? I have no imm...
Oh boy just you wait
I think all of us thought that before giving our souls up
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/853438864143941632/unknown.png unseeded 57 finally
pseudo kernel
Nice
narrow carbon
Wow! New Nem heat record!
shy plinth
Retrash TD3 clears pog
heady olive
wow nicee
devout quiver
Poggers
honest kernel
congrats!
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
kindred panther
if you do dio special look out fopr bad influence its so so strong with ramas pl...
i never thought of this
mossy zinc
another day to die in elysium <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Congratulations!
Bad Influence is amazing in the right builds.
honest kernel
idk what other aspect does bad influence as well as rama tbh
heady olive
yea, the multi hit ricochet is pretty strong lol
edgy arrow
it’s pretty stonks on dio chiron, but that’s less because chiron is better at proccing it than rama (it’s worse) and more because chiron really needs any damage it can get lol
heady olive
it would be quite hard to proc it on chiron if u have dionysus special only
heady olive
oo
it seems i am a low level chiron player
then again ive never really used dio special on chiron
gaunt fiber
Piercing volley gg ez
edgy arrow
piercing volley best chiron hammer
edgy arrow
then again ive never really used dio special on chiron
you should try it sometime, it’s good
heady olive
i should but im not playing chiron anymore
also artemis is a better waifu than dionysus
edgy arrow
haha both valid
honest kernel
I got 5-sacked on 52 aaaaaaaaaaa
its ok this is to proof myself that my execution is good enough
now I only need to do that run with ap2
and no 5sack
gaunt fiber
I got 5 sacked the run before my Talos clear. I was sad and kinda fed up so I forgot to drop the tooth for Zeus keepsake
May the 5 sack give you the strength
honest kernel
thannks 😔 👌
true fable
bad influence chaos shield is quite good
bright mango
^
north dove
57 heat nem run is up for any interested 👁️