And if not that, then please let us sell it for 0
#h1-high-heat-strategies
bronze viper
halcyon flame
too bad, the run's going well
i should have turned on p.status 
i'm still alive but this damage is terrible
correction: i didn't turn on p.status not because i thought it would be bad, i just totally forgot to 
mossy zinc
i'm still alive but this damage is terrible
The definition of Chaos Aspect.
true fable
p status is p bad
halcyon flame
i suck ass at hestia, maybe i'll go for that next
mossy zinc
Worst case, you can always just play base Rail with Lightning Strike + Tidal dash lol.
halcyon flame
should i go with heartbreak or deadly on attack?
heartbreak strike doesn't scale nearly as much as flourish so maybe deadly
mossy zinc
Objectively, Heartbreak Strike is superior in every way.
halcyon flame
ok but is it actually better than deadly in terms of damage output or
i can understand going for deadly flourish for big critsplosions
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AIW5HbOHISyth1SjJxlwA6Achu5iDk9hhFr3bwm6nFU/edit?usp=sharing
That's for average damage.
Not factoring in bonus crit damage or bonus crit chance.
First column shows bonus damage from other sources.
honest kernel
math says aphro is the best obviously
mossy zinc
Yes.
If you can't tell which you prefer for damage, one of them applies Weak to everything and unlocks Smoldering Air.
Also, keep in mind that Deadly Strike shots do great damage 15% of the time and poor damage 85% of the time.
halcyon flame
i do like smouldering air + tidal dash
mossy zinc
That unlocks Sweet Nectar, too.
halcyon flame
great for dealing with small enemies
sweet nectar, that too
any other things i could go with for dealing damage?
maybe deadly flourish in that case
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike, Tidal Dash, and Zeus' Aid all scale super well with poms.
Yeah, Deadly Flourish is good.
But any % boon on Special is good, same as Eris.
halcyon flame
deadly flourish would benefit pretty nicely from heart rend if i can get it so i guess i'll just go with that
or maybe divine flourish for dds if i happen upon athena instead of arty
halcyon flame
heartbreaks scales nicely so why not
i'd like to at least have something else for the sake of variety but having 2 core boons from the same god isn't gonna kill me
mossy zinc
I mean in a typical run you only use two god keepsakes.
Can't pick and choose every boon.
Hunter Dash is good, too.
So are Divine Dash and Thunder Dash.
Thunder Dash is great if you have Static Discharge, anyway.
halcyon flame
does dashing and then firing empowered shot count as a dash-strike?
i feel like it doesn't
even though it really should
i'll just go check it out right now
mossy zinc
Yes, it does.
halcyon flame
i feel like i've been mad sleeping on thunder dash since i actually tried out tidal dash
to be fair thunder dash has horrible base damage output
mossy zinc
That's why you roll Chaos boons for Attack or Dash-Strike damage.
halcyon flame
but that's just zeus
weird. if i shoot mid-dash the game doesn't say that i actually did a dash-strike
mossy zinc
Doesn't say?
halcyon flame
i can't record it but if i fire the empowered shot mid-dash, the indicator telling me how to dash-strike doesn't disappear
mossy zinc
Maybe you're doing it too late?
halcyon flame
mid-dash
actually
i can just grab arty's keepsake and use hunter dash to verify this
ok so it does actually count
i'm trying to report this bug but when i pressed f10 the game just crashed
mossy zinc
Well, that you think you're doing it mid-dash doesn't imply that you actually do.
Shows fine for me in the courtyard with controller and with KBM.
halcyon flame
well that's weird
i'm absolutely sure that something's off since it still is affected by hunter's dash
mossy zinc
Maybe your timing is off in the courtyard but in a run, you do it right intuitively? I dunno. What happens when you just press Dash + Attack at the same time? That should give you a Dash-Strike.
halcyon flame
horrifically low-quality recording i know i haven't exactly bothered to install obs
spice lava
Looks like strike-dashing considering the timing
halcyon flame
mossy zinc
Oh wait. Yeah, with an Empowered Shot, it doesn't register as either Fire nor as a Dash-Strike in the courtyard.
Normal shot works, though.
Curious.
mossy zinc
That's just the courtyard not registering the Empowered Shot as an attack at all.
halcyon flame
i should retest hunter's dash
mossy zinc
Hunter Dash works fine.
halcyon flame
it probably dealt more damage because i have fiery on
spice lava
Dash strike is a bit weird for me on Hestia, it's like doing dash while holding attack right after to be sure it works
Else I'll just move a tiny bit after the dash before firing and it's most of the time enough to not count as a dash strike anymore
halcyon flame
normal shot - 157 damage
dash-strike w/ hunter's dash - 232 damage
mossy zinc
Probably 98% of my shots with Hestia are Dash-Strikes.
halcyon flame
the reason it does over 150 is because i have ff on
i would go for hunter's dash
but i'm not smoothbrained
so tidal dash naturally
mossy zinc
I reported that it doesn't register as Attack nor Dash-Strike in the courtyard.
spice lava
Tidal has a good base damage and at the end it makes the Styx smoother on tiny rooms
Rats dislike being washed
mossy zinc
Dying Lament is very good on Hestia.
halcyon flame
i tend to sleep on dying lament
way more than i should - it's honestly super good for small enemies
mossy zinc
Tartarus and Styx with Hestia without Dying Lament or Tidal Dash are a pain.
Slow.
It's just generally good. It doesn't add that much damage in a run, but it's more important when it does that damage.
When one enemy dies, other enemies in close proximity are typically also low in HP.
halcyon flame
ap2-proof?
mossy zinc
You can't be forced into an exchange that replaces Dying Lament.
halcyon flame
because it's not a core boon?
spice lava
Exactly
mossy zinc
Not a priority core boon, to be exact. Call is a core boon, but Calls can't be exchanged.
spice lava
Tidal can stay strong whatever the situation while Dying lament can lose its strength on big rooms with dispatched foes
mossy zinc
Yeah, Tidal Dash is definitely way stronger overall.
But Dying Lament can help with Hestia's issues in Tartarus and Styx just as well as Tidal Dash can.
But that's mostly for the timer, anyway.
halcyon flame
speaking of rail i really need to improve my aim with eris
i tend to go for seeking fire because i miss so frequently, definitely a bad thing since there's so much better options most of the time
spice lava
Which temperature for Eris?
hoary pasture
You're on kbm right?
hoary pasture
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/831428015761260585/unknown.png Try turning this off
halcyon flame
i've heard that auto-aim is really bad though i haven't tried it myself
celest grail
no
mossy zinc
Pretty sure the typical strat for Eris on KBM is to just turn on aim assist and turn off everything else.
celest grail
aim assist is amazing
hoary pasture
yes
celest grail
yep^^
hoary pasture
you literally do nothing
halcyon flame
i've heard that people have awful experiences with luci on auto aim
celest grail
not really
halcyon flame
then again
celest grail
the only rail i turn on attack at cursor for, is hestia
halcyon flame
you shouldn't exactly be relying mainly on the laser for damage
mossy zinc
Isn't Attack at Cursor on rail a scam anyway? Since it's actually Attack at Somewhere Below the Cursor.
halcyon flame
now that i think about it, the problem for lucifer on people with auto-aim is probably they just don't know how to play the aspect 
spice lava
Let's say that when you look at strong luci runners, the main luci move is to dash while keeping the laser on
mossy zinc
I know how to play Lucifer.
halcyon flame
lucia?
hoary pasture
lol
celest grail
@halcyon flame you should get glasses i think
spice lava
And being accurate with special ofc
mossy zinc
...I own a Lucia character discord for Street Fighter V lol.
halcyon flame
mossy zinc
Get Triple Bomb, mash Special, attack inbetween.
halcyon flame
what other hammers do i get for luci?
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/761220441049661442/831428885082013716/unk...
I have the same Discord bug.
halcyon flame
i know greater inferno sucks
wintry berry
Targeting
wintry berry
Triple beam is ok for room clear
mossy zinc
I think Greater Inferno is fine.
halcyon flame
triple beam for room-clearing seems irrelevant when you have huge aoe explosions doing all of that
wintry berry
That's why I said "ok"
halcyon flame
i guess piercing would be good since it helps with setting them off in crowds
although if i have tidal dash i can just pretend i'm playing eris and naturally set off big explosions that way
true fable
triple beam is fine yeah
i like triple bomb triple beam as a hammer combo a ton
flash fire triple bomb would be ideal for 50 heat imo
if i got to choose my hammers
mossy zinc
I kind of don't even bother setting off bombs deliberately without a dash to do that lol.
Just throw bombs at things, they'll go boom eventually.
wintry berry
Lucifer gameplay is like Eris
with some difference because bombs doesn't explode on landing
mossy zinc
Can Lucifer get Hazard Bomb, or is that info just missing from the wiki?
wintry berry
I don't remember getting hazard on Lucifer
halcyon flame
hazard bomb on luci is just setting yourself on fire
mossy zinc
What Bright01 said, yeah.
halcyon flame
it does seem like a lot of burst damage
wintry berry
Lucifer should have hazard
wintry berry
Don't stand near them or make them explode
halcyon flame
anyways, hestia
do i go with tidal dash start or heartbreak strike
i'll just hope for natural aphrodite
mossy zinc
The answer is yes, Tidal Dash or Heartbreak Strike.
Well.
Obviously, you should start every run with the Eternal Rose.
Probably like this for me at the moment.
You should listen to me. I have 17 runs and 7 clears with Lucifer.
I even did 40 Heat Lucifer first try with Triple Bomb pure skill.
halcyon flame
aphrodite won't give me heartbreak strike
mossy zinc
Is your heart broken over that? Seems like she did give you a Heartbreak Strike after all.
Did you start with the Eternal Rose?
Passion Dash is a good start, too.
Helps with trash mobs in Tartarus.
mossy zinc
And Heartbreak Flourish will matter more later on, but if you get it early, you can at least put more poms on it.
halcyon flame
cluster bomb or ricochet
wintry berry
Ricochet
mossy zinc
Rocket Bomb is the only hammer I'd even consider over Ricochet Fire.
Ricochet is #1 until Hades, pretty much. Far less valuable in the Hades fight. I actually take the Anvil before Hades if I have Breaching Cross and no good Special hammer. Might start doing the same with Ricochet.
I guess I'd keep Breaching Cross for EM4.
Breaching Cross still does ridiculous damage in phase 1, but it doesn't help at all with damage to Hades himself. The fight is much slower if you don't have Explosive Upper or Kinetic Launcher.
halcyon flame
triple, hazard or piercing
hazard seems good
but i have divine flourish so maybe triple for... defense??
honest kernel
You honestly nailed that one down. The aspect really tests you on how well you understand the base shield kit. Between the different knockback values you get on attacks, dash-attacks and bullrushes, Knowing when it's safe to dash-attack VS bullrushing, how to approach specific enemies and bosses ... And how all that interacts with the special and it's movement pattern.
honest kernel
triple, hazard or piercing
How late in Elysium are you
halcyon flame
chamber 28
honest kernel
And what's the heat
honest kernel
Hmm. First hammer ?
halcyon flame
i already have ricochet
honest kernel
take Hazard or Triple then. Hazard is more damage and range, but comes at the risk of self damage
Triple is the safer alternative
Piercing has an argument to be taken
But is overkill with Ricochet, IMO
mossy zinc
Hazard can be weird to land on FO2 dad if you're not used to it.
honest kernel
Despite the range, yeah
mossy zinc
Anti-armor hammers have less value the later in the run you find them because they don't really do anything vs dad.
honest kernel
Early Elysium is a good moment to find them in
Since Elysium is where Armor becomes really prevalent
Some could argue for Asphodel
mossy zinc
Yeah, that's still good. If you're close to the boss fight, though, you're just getting very little value out of it.
honest kernel
yup
Oh, speaking of anti-armor hammers
Don't take Breaching Rush unless you are on Beowulf
lmao
mossy zinc
I take it as a second hammer if I have Charged Shot.
mossy zinc
And... if everything else is somehow worse. I guess Breaching Rush over Sudden Rush for first hammer, at least?
halcyon flame
Anti-armor hammers have less value the later in the run you find them because th...
especially if you already do a boatload of damage, in which case it becomes irrelevant if you already strip away armor so fast
honest kernel
And... if everything else is somehow worse. I guess Breaching Rush over Sudden R...
Sudden Rush first hammer is pretty decent
Even on Beowulf
honest kernel
Getting to enemies faster on what's essentially a melee weapon is a fantastic trait to have
Well, Charged Flight builds are a thing, I guess
But outside of that, you are melee
mossy zinc
Not saying Sudden Rush isn't valuable. Just I'd take Breaching Rush for a first hammer over it.
honest kernel
And I wouldn't
mossy zinc
Yeah.
true fable
same
halcyon flame
it's probably too late for something like this to happen but it would be so nice if hestia's empowered shot carried over between chambers
shy gulch
just reload at the beginning of each chamber
honest kernel
Yes to that
mossy zinc
Well, I'd take Sudden Rush over Breaching Rush on Beowulf tbh.
halcyon flame
it would just be nice to not reload immediately at the start
it's not much of an issue
just inconvenient imo
shy gulch
idk its kind of a habit now so i dont notice it
honest kernel
On Zeus shield, you use the bullrush to approach things for the special do to stuff, for high heat. in any heat, you use dash-attacks.
mossy zinc
Because on Beowulf you get more damage from your Casts than your Attack anyway, so just being able to do that more often is more valuable.
honest kernel
In anyheat, Sudden Rush can be paired with Charged Shot later for super fast shots, or even Minotaur Rush if you have Artemis attack down the line.
Breaching Rush would be better if it weren't for those two facts : 1. Non-beo bullrush damage is based on long the charge is held for, and 2. It's, at best, +160 damage per bullrush. Yeah. For how long it takes to charge without Sudden Rush, not quite worth it over simply using Attacks and Dash-attacks.
And that's only on armor
The only shield that could take it well is Chaos shield. And even then, it doesn't want to max-charge a rush often
mossy zinc
in any heat, you use dash-attacks.
That's why I like Breaching Rush over Sudden Rush. It lets you strip armor off a new wave at least occasionally (e.g. barge) vs Sudden Rush doing kind of nothing for me unless I happen to get Charged Shot or Minotaur Rush.
halcyon flame
32 heat hestia done. i ought to just go for 40 heat at this point
mossy zinc
Do whatever is fun for you. If 40 seems more fun, do 40.
halcyon flame
screw it. 32 heat all aspects
honest kernel
> in any heat, you use dash-attacks.
That's why I like Breaching Rush over Sudde...
And, by that same logic, Breaching Rush does nothing practical for me, in anyheat. Sudden Rush, I'll use to close the gap against some enemies. Dash strike -> dash and hold attack for a bullrush -> Charge for whatever necessary is pretty darn fast.
I'll likely get more from getting the special in enemies faster then I am from the bullrush itself
halcyon flame
i've definitely gotten better since... my last 32 heat hestia attempt
honest kernel
And Sudden Rush is useful for general movement
mossy zinc
Yeah, I'll have to try using Sudden Rush to bridge the gap more and not think of it as just an Attack that does no damage.
halcyon flame
i managed to do 32 heat hera fairly easily, hestia was a breeze really, which weapon should i go with for 40 heat?
hoary pasture
zag spear
mossy zinc
Hera and Hestia are both very good for 40.
honest kernel
Yeah, I'll have to try using Sudden Rush to bridge the gap more and not think of...
It's utility is the biggest factor. In high heat, a max-charge bullrush will make you avoid most, of not all attacks in the game. Getting to that point faster is very valuable
mossy zinc
Hestia relies less on boons, so that's probably the safer pick.
halcyon flame
my hera/hestia runs are still very scuffed honestly
they're some of the aspects i have the least experience with
mossy zinc
Well, a scuffed Hestia run is still better than a decent run with most other aspects lol.
Hera is the bow.
Not Hestia.
celest grail
lol i still die inside a bit looking at my pb dad fight
halcyon flame
very short of sub 11 but i'm not even mad. i'm terrible at bow
celest grail
couldve done it so much better
mossy zinc
Imagine doing 32 in 15:27 and thinking you should take TD2.
halcyon flame
yeah at this point td2 with chaos shield was still very dumb
mossy zinc
Your words, not mine. 
halcyon flame
also my 32 heat time pb is somewhere around 12:26 with beowulf, excuse you
halcyon flame
i think it was also around the time period when i thought cf2 was acceptable with a cast aspect
celest grail
not sure if i could deal with the stress tho lol
halcyon flame
so beowulf 32 heat 12:26 igt with convenience fee 2. can't beat that personally
i should go look for the clear screen
mossy zinc
You should submit that to the 32 speedrun leaderboard. You can be 19 places behind my shield WR.
mossy zinc
21 places behind my shield WR.
mossy zinc
6th.
celest grail
oh damn, nice
celest grail
poggies
mossy zinc
I also have bow WR and spear WR and fists WR.
halcyon flame
get ready to see some really scuffed sub 12 runs in 720p 30fps 😎
celest grail
i still record in 480p 30fps lol
halcyon flame
celest grail
as long as the save icon and timer are legible, its fine
halcyon flame
crappy low spec laptop gang
mossy zinc
get rail wr then we're talking
Get any WR, then we're talking.
celest grail
:(
honest kernel
Well that happened
celest grail
nya why
mossy zinc
@honest kernel your 8:30 at 40 Heat doesn't count for 32 Heat, by the way.
Just making that clear! 🔫
halcyon flame
when i decided to do 32 heat again after a while my brain just said "now wait a second. buying boons is cool" and ever since then i've felt so free not having to deal with boons that cost 270 obols
cf1 is fine but cf2 at 32 heat? eww
edgy arrow
you’re allowed to use TD2, but you’re not allowed to do it and then get sub 20 anyway
that’s just wasteful
and i can’t abide wastefulness (i say, while yeeting 12 rerolls in the mirage shot abyss)
halcyon flame
how was i gonna know i was just gonna pull a sub 19 with drunken flourish chaos shield when i even forgot to turn on privileged status
honest kernel
TD3, depending on how fast you are with a given weapon, can legit screw you over on sack RNG.
Or bad Elysiums
mossy zinc
18:30 with pacts that hurt your time that you could have turned off with TD3.
mossy zinc
If you're slow with the weapon, yeah. But with good fundamentals, TD3 at 32 should be free even with a 5-sack.
honest kernel
Agreed on that front
mossy zinc
32 on a good pact should be any heat pace with maybe at worst +1 or 2 minutes from playing safer in boss fight and losing High Confidence.
halcyon flame
well i'm not turning on hs for 32 heat
mossy zinc
Although, Skull Earring can make up for that just fine if you can do all the bosses with EM2 without Acorn.
Why not? It's good practice.
hoary pasture
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/831451552178241596/unknown.png worried about time lol
honest kernel
You'll be fine
halcyon flame
doesn't seem that bad
honest kernel
Cast damage from Chaos and rush delivery
halcyon flame
4-sack could be the worst case scenario
mossy zinc
You'll have time to spare with a 5-sack, probably.
honest kernel
^
mossy zinc
Minibosses will be fast, too.
halcyon flame
gaming
honest kernel
Let's go mike
hoary pasture
Yea I got 4 minutes and a half
halcyon flame
also unyielding defense
that's some crazy damage reduction after your acorn is gone
halcyon flame
wait does it work the same way as hangover stacks?
halcyon flame
it overrides?
mossy zinc
Remember you can just play lame and block until he attacks, then bull-rush for the damage. No need to take any unnecessary risks.
honest kernel
^
mossy zinc
You're not speedrunning.
honest kernel
You got the time to spare
halcyon flame
defintiely try not to be like, inside him when you try to block
i would know a tiny little bit of distance while blocking is vital
cries in dying to dad with an amazing trippy flare build
hoary pasture
honest kernel
GGS
hoary pasture
We big gaming
halcyon flame
gaming
hoary pasture
ty
halcyon flame
beo moment
hoary pasture
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
hoary pasture
ty
hoary pasture
Don't I need a vid to submit
hoary pasture
tyty
celest grail
hyper delivery on 40 heat poggers
true fable
i realize i keep forgetting to post my stuff here but 50 heat chiron and 53 heat eris are doneskis
mossy zinc
Oh. You can submit just a screenshot, but it won't count towards the unseeded index or seeded index. There's a separate leaderboard for victory screens only.
true fable
only zag sword/bow/fists, hera, talos, and gilga remain for 50 heat
celest grail
only
mossy zinc
i realize i keep forgetting to post my stuff here but 50 heat chiron and 53 heat...
Congratulations!
true fable
all good aspects
thank you!
chiron might just be bad zag bow but it can also be chiron
is my biggest takeaway
mossy zinc
So many are forsaking this place for the evil high heat channel in the speedrun server. 
true fable
LOL
mossy zinc
Don't join the dark side!
true fable
here it is
for anyone interested in chiron "builds"
to be fair this felt like a very interesting run
honest kernel
That's a nice bow build
mossy zinc
Very nice Zag bow build.
true fable
was 90% flurry shot and 10% killing freeze
i special'ed when i needed KF
otherwise just zag bow yeah
halcyon flame
mm yes
mossy zinc
Killing Freeze and Chill are both great for boss fights.
halcyon flame
beautiful zag bow run right there
mossy zinc
I finished all remaining aspects at 40 yesterday.
honest kernel
As is the chill effect, really
true fable
surprisingly zag bow has been much harder so far
i should try it some more tomorrow i think
but ledger is right
zag bow 50 is deceptively hard
true fable
there are just so few ways to scale your damage
and AP bricks all of them
LOL
also CP1 is not kind to zag bow
mossy zinc
Easy 6-win streak with them until I played the very last one that remained, of course.
true fable
if i run heartbreak strike i need a minimum of epic rarity to one shot witches
halcyon flame
i should try the 63 heat challenge, seems horrible. i like it
true fable
if i run deadly strike i need minimum of epic rarity to one shot brimstones
breakpoints are tough
mossy zinc
i should try the 63 heat challenge, seems horrible. i like it
Good luck!
honest kernel
if i run deadly strike i need minimum of epic rarity to one shot brimstones
On a dash-strike ?
halcyon flame
my goal should be to reach asphodel with zeus shield
honest kernel
Oof
true fable
yeah lol
its pretty rough lmao
no matter what enemies you get you will mostly be two shotting things
honest kernel
I wonder if Fiery is any good for Zag bow
true fable
it has been pretty nice
halcyon flame
probably not
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike non-crit damage is garbage.
true fable
i think i will probably be running it
halcyon flame
zag bow is strong but it's not a one-shot weapon
honest kernel
^
mossy zinc
Pretty sure Fiery is the way to go.
true fable
i think probably heartbreak strike start with fiery might be correct
its quite sad to lose that boss damage though
but tart timer will thank
honest kernel
Most of your boss damage is from hammers anyways
spice lava
Will you play Zag bow like Chiron to compensate the AP fate? 👀
mossy zinc
Zag bow high heat was a lot more popular in Early Access with seed meta.
mossy zinc
Twin Shot or Triple Shot start is a world of difference.
true fable
i think i might choose instead to run a TD2 AP2 pact
idk
yeah
reset for arrows start
sounds like an appropriate amount of pain
though TD3 should be possible too
i'll play around with it a bit
side note: zag fists is just pain
i think you need jolted out of tartarus
mossy zinc
You have two good hammers to choose from, at least. Perfect Shot is worth running, too.
honest kernel
i think you need jolted out of tartarus
ZAA fists in a nutshell, really
spice lava
Td2 tends to intensify some rooms because of JS and CP but maybe with the good build that'll work
true fable
i woke up thinking i would do gilga
true fable
and then got tired of dying in tartarus
mossy zinc
Ideally in Tartarus.
mossy zinc
It's a good strategy.
true fable
i tried a few blade dash starts
but theyre pretty hard
timer is tough
also tried curse of pain and curse of agony starts
mostly pain and agony
honest kernel
Pretty fitting
true fable
yup
honest kernel
Have you tried Tidal Dash starts ?
true fable
yeah
honest kernel
For Gilga, that is
true fable
awkward
honest kernel
Fair
true fable
need to attack to beat timer i think
didnt need to on 40/45
thoguh hadesboy used it
so i should probably revisit it
spice lava
HadesGirl, right? They renamed on the 50 heat board
true fable
we have both
hadesboy and hadesgirl
and hadesprofessor
hadesboy is a student of professor i think
honest kernel
wot
halcyon flame
hadeskid when
honest kernel
^
true fable
hadesgirl is separate
mossy zinc
Is HadesGirl actually a girl?
true fable
hard to say but i would assume so
spice lava
Oh that wasn't a rename? Last time i checked Hadesboy name disappeared so I thought it was a rename
mossy zinc
Do we finally have four female high heat players?
I saw the name on the speedrun leaderboard the other day, yeah.
true fable
hey but youre right yagg
spice lava
Ok mb
true fable
their runs are gone
spice lava
What
true fable
i wonder if they removed them
mossy zinc
Tidal Dash replaces Gilgamesh's Dash-Upper with a funny pose of Zag holding up the claw far away from any enemies.
honest kernel
i wonder if they removed them
I can't find the username hadesboy.
on Speedrun.com
Like, the user search engine shows nothing
spice lava
I always knew the name Hadesboy with a jp flag but my memory might trick me
honest kernel
Do you have a way to check the runs you verified ?
spice lava
And I'm pretty sure one of the first runs of HB was on Eris
honest kernel
And see if it's there still ?
true fable
nope
honest kernel
That's gonna be lost
mossy zinc
I always knew the name Hadesboy with a jp flag but my memory might trick me
Better to use JP or jp to abbreviate Japanese, since that's considered a slur.
true fable
^ that too
spice lava
So runs might have been removed in purpose by Hadesboy
spice lava
Oh I didn't know about jp, mb
honest kernel
Essentially, HadesGirl is HadesBoy on Youtube, I assume
true fable
oh hmm
spice lava
So that could actually be a confusing rename
true fable
wth
honest kernel
The only reason I know
true fable
i couldve sworn they had different users
mossy zinc
Might wanna edit that message.
true fable
but not the other
spice lava
Mine? Ok
mossy zinc
Hai.
true fable
will continue thinking about zag bow while i sleep
you know
the other day i had a dream
i took a big health erebus
in tart
and there was a butterfly ball
more of a deadly nightmare really
honest kernel
... Yeah that would be terrifying this early in a run lmao
true fable
lol
honest kernel
c1 Tiny Vermin
mossy zinc
Was that dream when you woke up thinking you should play Gilgamesh instead.
dire steppe
name 1 aspect that isn’t gilgamesh
edgy arrow
what kinda of horrifying dream would cause someone to switch to gilgamesh
mossy zinc
I'd normally say the opposite, but @true fable, I don't think sleep is good for you.
dire steppe
on that subject, goodnight to everyone not based in germany
halcyon flame
sleep is what's causing you to put off 50 heat zag man
mossy zinc
C1 EM4.
halcyon flame
just don't fall asleep
mossy zinc
"Don't think you can escape, boy!"
edgy arrow
zag doesn’t need to sleep, so neither should we
dire steppe
zag man? which weapon is man 🖨️
halcyon flame
C1 EM4.
install codex menu > turn on em4 > open codex > go to hades' entry > press "enter"
there. c1 em4
edgy arrow
be fun if you could do a run backwards
start with hades then slowly progress back to tart, losing boons as you go
spice lava
You remind me my last meme piece @true fable https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/823583897157107732/IsThis1.jpg
mossy zinc
You can on KBM.
true fable
LOL
halcyon flame
ah yes
true fable
i like the arthur moonwalk
halcyon flame
just walk backwards the whole run
true fable
start with hades then slowly progress back to tart, losing boons as you go
zagjamin button
edgy arrow
that sounds like less of a bad idea than special only achilles tbh
just unbind W
what could go wrong
ashen garnet
Was wondering if some nice textual guides exists about high-heat/aspect/gameplay details specifics ? I feel like asking and giving specific advice on Discord channels are going in a circle (and lost in the flux) pretty fast 
edgy arrow
there's a lot more of that type of stuff for speedrunning than heat stuff
the trouble is there's much less of an established meta so its a lot harder to write stuff up and have it not just be an opinion a bunch of good players would disagree with
hence the semi circular debates
waxen relic
In high Heat you could adapt from Ares-Attack to Curse of Longing or ME and get the Clear, in Speedrunning you reset to get ME faster, is what i feel like is the deciding Factor making text-guides quite limited.
honest kernel
theres the 32 guide thing
edgy arrow
In high Heat you could adapt from Ares-Attack to Curse of Longing or ME and get ...
yeah
that exactly it; when high heat folks say stuff like "passion dash is actually good" they mean its good enough
high heat isn't really about perfection at all
yeah there's the 32 heat guide, which is pretty good
my impression was Scratch was looking for something more specific than that tho
honest kernel
not impossible to make I'd think just takes effort to write builds if u wanna do them
pact guides should be ez
edgy arrow
for sure not impossible
if i was more in the loop atm i'd consider giving it a try myself honestly
even the specifics of pacts can get kinda complicated lol
honest kernel
the biggest issue is prob that depending on what heat what you'll look for is diff
quartz mantle
I mean pacts are separated into 3 main categories
waxen relic
I did try to write a guide about every pact once, but you come from one pact to influence the other and the overall heat you're going for and the aspect etc.
edgy arrow
the biggest issue is lack of data
its tough to know for sure if the stuff that worked just worked because it was Tail or someone using it
honest kernel
I dont think we have a lack theres a load of runs on yt
edgy arrow
its getting better for sure
honest kernel
guides will never be objective
waxen relic
And then there's the difference of the Mirror, of whether you Streak or do Boonless ..
edgy arrow
guides will never be objective
yeah... this is why i would be a bad guidewriter lol
edgy arrow
i'm more interested in spending 5000 words discussing the nuanced differences between two barely different options and how they're approached differently in the meta than actually writing anything practical
quartz mantle
I think giving people information on the intricacies of each pact is a good way to make an objective guide
like rather than saying "this is the best option" say "this is what these options do"
and let the reader decide which one they prefer based on the info given
edgy arrow
like rather than saying "this is the best option" say "this is what these option...
i'd prefer "this is how these options are used in practice by the folks getting results"
then you can cite sources and stuff
yes i am a nerd
quartz mantle
Well you can do both
edgy arrow
but yeah its about presenting what we know and letting the reader run with it i agree
since the high heat meta is still relatively fluid
quartz mantle
I'm really not a big fan of telling people how to play the game but I will tell them more about the game in hopes that it'll improve their decision making
edgy arrow
yeah absolutely
that's why it gets complicated; even if you focus on "objective" data there's still a whole pile of things that have worked in real runs, and innumerable things that haven't really been tried yet
so it needs to be presented that way, so new folks know experimentation is a good idea
idk i've put some thought into what i feel the "ideal" hades heat guide would look like, and the conclusion i came to is that it would take a lot of work to make and i am lazy
waxen relic
If there's someone insisting on doing Heats slowly and hitless i'd tell him to do RI4 TD2. Is that a good guide? Nope.
waxen relic
i'm lazy too
edgy arrow
touché
ashen garnet
like rather than saying "this is the best option" say "this is what these option...
Was having this objective part in sight. More about "which things to consider when making this choice" rather than "this is how I cheesed 32heat, do the same to get your statue"
Writing a collaborative guide is a good way to discuss about it and share workload 
edgy arrow
ok cool someone wanna collaborate on a guide with me
here's the plan: you do all the work, i get half the credit
seems fair to me
waxen relic
There's just so many choices and to properly evaluate them i'd recommend playing. Also a lot of stuff changes by learning.
Maybe i just wouldn't be content with a guide depicting only a small part of what you could do.
edgy arrow
yeah that's my problem as well lol
honest kernel
if I'd write a guide I would prob break it down in a bunch of different categories like pact, general boon and gods info, mirror and then go into widespread example builds
gaunt fiber
here's the plan: you do all the work, i get half the credit
lmao
I'll try to write something before I retire though
maybe
honest kernel
cant wait for everyones guides 😌
edgy arrow
lol be funny if there's like 12 guides tomorrow
all contradictory ofc
do it astaos
would it just be a GY guide or what
i could do that for beo; my advice for all other aspects is just to play beo instead
solemn pulsar
Most important thing for a heat guide is how pacts interact at higher heats
edgy arrow
turns out it wasn't a guide it was just beo propaganda
solemn pulsar
Probably the least intuitive part of the pact
gaunt fiber
would it just be a GY guide or what
Well yeah sorry LOL
solemn pulsar
That and LC4+SDs@lol
halcyon flame
turns out it wasn't a guide it was just beo propaganda
this isn't a sub 8 guide! this is beowulf!
gaunt fiber
poggies
the ultimate goal would be video too
Like for the useless techs
or the less useless ones such as dash strike spin
edgy arrow
do a 45 minute video tutorial on mini spins i dare you
gaunt fiber
LMAO
Bright told me I was a nerd because I was too excited when he used it for his clear
edgy arrow
we're all nerds here tbh
gaunt fiber
true true
halcyon flame
make a moonwalk guide
gaunt fiber
Kbm only sigh
halcyon flame
if we spread the gy moonwalk guide around enough then someone is definitely gonna think it's a legit strat
gaunt fiber
I'd credit pseudo obviously but I don't think if you want this in a guide
or maybe you actually want
Because it would be more a Guan yu tribute than a guide
Like
Everything you don't need but also need to know
edgy arrow
seems like it would be pretty important to me
halcyon flame
i'd like to see someone clear guan yu while spamming moonwalk
gaunt fiber
Too much work for one dude
edgy arrow
moonwalk only run when
gaunt fiber
Oh yeah the jesus christ strat too
solemn pulsar
@gaunt fiber tried some fresh file level 1 guan yu last night
Died to power couple :c
gaunt fiber
Oof
edgy arrow
respectable honestly
gaunt fiber
seems rough
edgy arrow
i'd 100% die before then
solemn pulsar
38 max hp then lol
gaunt fiber
hey not so bad
solemn pulsar
15 to start, 8 per centaur heart
edgy arrow
wait does this mean there's a fresh file mod that lets you choose the aspect now?
gaunt fiber
38 seems ok without HL
edgy arrow
fresh file beo lets gooo
halcyon flame
how are you gonna do fresh file guan yu
hoary pasture
pain
solemn pulsar
Don’t get hit
halcyon flame
deadly flourish with no charged skewer?
edgy arrow
idk but moonwalking is prolly required
edgy arrow
Yeah i made it
nice
gaunt fiber
deadly flourish with no charged skewer?
You don't have a timer restriction
so you're basically free to spin your way out of this hell
hoary pasture
lol
solar maple
make a moonwalk guide
👀
also GY fresh file seems fine for rooms but the heroes/dad fights are probably just miserable
halcyon flame
you didn't even take divine flourish?
solemn pulsar
Divine flourish is not offered in first run as the first boon
It defaults to attack cast and dash
bronze viper
just think "Guan Yu Gi Oh"
Wow, it's like my universe just clicked into place. It all makes sense now.
solemn pulsar
If guan yu and Arthur swapped HP effects
Do you think astaos would be an Arthur main
bronze viper
LOL
solemn pulsar
Like 3rd slash of Arthur heals 4 HP
bright mango
solemn pulsar
But -50%
bronze viper
I don't think we'd get as much good content of him playing other aspects. I think he'd literally never leave GY
solemn pulsar
Does he play it because he likes it or because other people don’t
bright mango
He legitimately enjoys playing it
bronze viper
Nah, he likes the playstyle. I do too, it's my favorite spear. -50% health is a bit extra though lol
So I don't play it much and I do not plan on pushing it much past the 45 I have
halcyon flame
oneshotting everything with heartbreak charged skewer is fun
bronze viper
The special > 2x dash strike > cast loop feels super duper good to play.
halcyon flame
i should go to bed in about an hour but... chamber 3 triple bomb 32 heat lucifer calls for me
kindred panther
yeaaaayah just cleared Zag sword 32
halcyon flame
zag sword 32 is gonna be terrible
i don't wanna build d-edge because it almost got me killed near the end with nemesis, so i'll just turn off hard labour and reset in elysium until i get flurry + cursed
horrible strategy but it should lead to not dying, which is exactly what i want
kindred panther
you're gonna have a really hard time if you try to use cursed
may make it to hades but then it's a nightmare
shy plinth
Just build for ME or Smoldering
bright mango
I just did ME
bronze viper
I force splash dash + shoals + damage call on aspects I hate.
It's a lower high roll than the duos
mossy zinc
Double Edge and ME are the only ways that thing does any damage.
shy plinth
Retrash does zeus attack
mossy zinc
Or, you can roll for a rare or epic Cast damage from Master Chaos in Tartarus and play budget Poseidon.
+45~80% works just as well as Poseidon for most of the game, but you won't be able to dislodge vs bosses.
Lightning Strike at least does some AOE, yeah.
shy plinth
Also sets up for smoldering air
And at that point we can get some damage that isn't based on using stygius
bright mango
Retrash does zeus attack
retrash is retrash
halcyon flame
this is a real retrash moment
mossy zinc
RidiculousHat is Retrash?
shy plinth
Oh I am very much not retrash
halcyon flame
Or, you can roll for a rare or epic Cast damage from Master Chaos in Tartarus an...
i could just build arthur
by that i mean crush shot
mossy zinc
Exactly.
torn sluice
I've stepped into heat busting now
Only at 6 but I've not exactly lost to any one particular punishment
Any pointers?
shy plinth
Go one heat at a time, follow the dark thirst, try everything
Build your skill set over time and don't pigeonhole yourself into particular builds
Work on your fundamental mechanics too - the less you can get hit the better
halcyon flame
my advice? avoid convenience fee, jury summons, calisthenics program and approval process whenever possible
forced overtime 1 is tough but the 3 heat is very worth it when working out your high heat pacts, definitely do practice it early on
devout quiver
I've started always playing with FO2 and MM on so that i don't "forget" how to play with them on
halcyon flame
i've played with mm for long enough so that i can go a good couple runs and still do fine against mm power couple
"fine" not exactly as in "good" but "fine enough"
devout quiver
Ye. That's me w/ BP1. Though, BP1 is more subtle changes
torn sluice
That's been the case with any game that has "more mobs" as a 'downside'
halcyon flame
you won't like jury summons when you start running td3
torn sluice
We will burn that bridge when I get there
I'm also a huge fan of Aegis Zeus, stuff is brutal and somewhat abusable
halcyon flame
calisthenics program is especially bad because it makes bosses a slog
devout quiver
zooz good
halcyon flame
zoos shield good
torn sluice
Might abuse Demeter for the Cold Harvest boon thing
halcyon flame
demeter is great but zeus squared is far gooder
bronze viper
I just saw the boss Winter Harvest animation for the first time a couple of days ago
SOOO sick
torn sluice
Zeus is just all around good, everything he has is pretty flat out good
devout quiver
i dunno if harvest really interacts with CP meaningfully.
sure you get the snap at 10%.
but you'd get that anyhow without CP.
torn sluice
His gimmick is Crowd Control, then secondarily everything has a flat damage buff
"Lightning strikes when you-" That's just free damage ontop of what you have
And considering most things have a small percentage buff
bright mango
Zeus shield is 
torn sluice
The flat out 30-70 per hit is busted
quartz mantle
I honestly recommend getting used to Forced Overtime as early as you're comfortable with
torn sluice
I made a mistake and left Forced Overtime when I ran with Arthur
quartz mantle
If you can run FO2 comfortably that's 6 free heat
torn sluice
That was pain
shy plinth
Keep in mind the advice here is from consistent 32+ perspectives
torn sluice
You're all using acronyms I don't understand
shy plinth
If you're at 6 it's gonna be a learning curve
bronze viper
Yea FO is hard on Arthur until you get really comfy with animations
quartz mantle
Forced Overtime
shy plinth
Just try em all and work on your prophecies
quartz mantle
FO
bright mango
forced overtime
torn sluice
Gotcha
bronze viper
And even then, on some fights like Dad lol
quartz mantle
Saying things like Calisthenic Programs is a lot of words and syllables
torn sluice
Oh yeah I'm taking the time to flesh them all out first
devout quiver
the list of abbreviations is pinned in this channel
torn sluice
Oh neat
quartz mantle
It also just comes with learning the pact more and recognizing when people use things like LC4, HL5, FO2, TD3 etc.
devout quiver
Also, you're contractually obligated to call EM4 "EM-Fun"
torn sluice
EM is the one where the bosses get some surprise twist right
devout quiver
yeah
torn sluice
I've yet to see EM4 for myself, let alone past 2 yet, I haven't dared actually
torn sluice
I'll get there, currently my highest heat is 7, and Zeus
halcyon flame
em4 is very fun
bright mango
it is
devout quiver
EM4 is a lot of fun, but its hard as nails
bright mango
A lot of fun
bright mango
i would like to disagree with that
torn sluice
I also might want to give Poseidon a shot, cast abusing sounds like something I want to do
halcyon flame
:))))))))))))))))))))00
torn sluice
Plus the Dislodge boon
eager vortex
okay, I've finished my optimal builds sheet for each aspect
halcyon flame
exit wounds with poseidon is p nice
it's also great with hera since it takes less time for casts to dislodge
torn sluice
Also, quick question
halcyon flame
:)
quartz mantle
EM4 is better because the music
hoary pasture
Yes
devout quiver
Phase 3 moozik op
torn sluice
Hermes has this buff where bonus damage is given for attack or movement speed
bright mango
em4/cp2/mm/dc2/hl5/fo2
Every time I try that pact I choke to 3rd phase
torn sluice
Does Stygius Zagreus' upgrades count
devout quiver
yes
torn sluice
Awesome
bright mango
yeah it does
torn sluice
Will keep that in mind
devout quiver
its really not as impressive as it sounds though
halcyon flame
i mean
rush delivery is pretty much if you don't have hyper sprint
hyper sprint is like the one boon you want with rush delivery, otherwise it's kinda mediocre
quartz mantle
Rush Delivery is based on movement speed though not attack speed
Eh
Second Wind with Smoldering nonsense makes Rush Delivery nuts
But obviously Hyper Delivery is a better combo
devout quiver
Rush Delivery is based on movement speed though not attack speed
zag sword gives both
halcyon flame
does second wind qualify for rush delivery?
devout quiver
no
bright mango
no
mossy zinc
Global damage bonus is never mediocre.
devout quiver
Plume, Haste or Hyper Sprint are the pre reqs iirc
quartz mantle
Rush Delivery also makes the little well speed item nuts
devout quiver
Second Wind being a pre req would be nifty
quartz mantle
imagine 20% global damage bonus for 8 encounters for 10 gold
halcyon flame
rush delivery is great at common and bonkers strong at epic i love it
halcyon flame
i tend to not buy the ichor
unless i already have rush delivery +20% move speed isn't very useful really
devout quiver
like if I have 157 gold or something and a shop is the next room, I'll skip ichor. It's just nice to go a bit faster
bright mango
For good mobility
bronze viper
I tend to also not buy it on CF2. 18 gold isn't nothing, that's often a threshold to a boon or something at some point
quartz mantle
its so cheap, like why not honestly
And then you enter a shop at 140 gold and you acquire big sad
devout quiver
like if I have 157 gold or something and a shop is the next room, I'll skip icho...
.
halcyon flame
i like to save all the gold for any essentials i might want to go for
bright mango
Oh yeah on CF2 I skip it
halcyon flame
and not just "run a bit faster for 8 chambers"
bright mango
But on non CF2, its just so worth it
bronze viper
Is it though? I've had common greater haste and the gain is very close to imperceptible
bright mango
its 10 gold
devout quiver
placebo 
devout quiver
if you feel faster, you become faster 
celest grail
i was moving faster than my dash
bronze viper
Yeah, it's the extra DD effect. You will probably end the run with them because confidence lol
honest kernel
I buy ichors when im in styx and have only money for well items
bronze viper
Yeah I do that
For sure
Basically I view Ichor as electing to miss a gold pot in the middle of your run.
It usually doesn't matter but feels like absolute ass when it does
devout quiver
f for all the gold pots you notice after hitting the room transition 
mossy zinc
Is it though? I've had common greater haste and the gain is very close to imper...
Global damage bonus is better the more flat damage sources you have. So in some builds that are mostly % damage, it wouldn't do very much.
bronze viper
I was talking about speed in the abstract. Rush Delivery with any MS is stonks
mossy zinc
Oh right. I missed some of the conversation.
I like Ignited Ichor in Asphodel a lot.
Elysium too, actually.
Styx it doesn't matter much except for the Hades fight a bit.
halcyon flame
Yeah, it's the extra DD effect. You will probably end the run with them because...
get divine dash
get epic last stand in asphodel
take acorn at elysium and into styx
lose 2 acorn charges by the end of the hades fight
