idk how I won
#h1-high-heat-strategies
bright mango
bronze viper
I think a lot of it for people is that you don't (or at least not as often) decrease the quantity of threats on the map until you decide to pop them all the same time.
honest kernel
wierdly enough rama always has been easiest bow for me
bronze viper
So you can't just kill a big boy threat like chariots and stuff efficiently by themselves. I mean you can but it's spewing suffering value
honest kernel
the big big dmg
honest kernel
I played chiron all day tho and now rama feels wierd
ember bronze
I feel like a big thing for "breaking through" my 32-40 range with all weapons is going to be able to do EM4 FO2
I can do one or the other (though sometimes even one can be hard depending on aspect)
I know the fight, but I've basically never approached Hades from a "play the boss properly" angle, like Sekiro or something
I should probably make a PC save and just practice it a lot
I could probably play 32s without EM4 or FO and winstreak by now
eager vortex
so there is this boss couple in asphodel right
the one that falls from above
how the hell do you kill it with rama on mm
can you dash strike above the aoe
bright mango
dash into it
bright mango
make sure you stand close to it
honest kernel
🤔 its like how u deal with them with every bow
works for me
stomper slams down, you dash strike into the shockwave and hit em
like dash into him so you invul through the shockwave
bright mango
^
honest kernel
also burn meg on them because that fight can go south
you cant really powershot tho
im always just partial charging
eternal hare
you can powershot but you have to basically dash away from the skullcrusher as it falls and fire before the shockwave reaches you
and it's really tight on timing/positioning
my usual way is to meg both megagorgon+skullcrusher, mark both and then kill the skullcrusher by attacking the megagorgon
eager vortex
"kill the skullcrusher by attacking the megagorgon"
honest kernel
oh yeah shared suffering also exists
eager vortex
yeah that's what would work with rama
eternal hare
😄
eternal hare
ah yeah that is a bit rough
eager vortex
cuz if you wait for the stomper to do the circle attack, dash over it
then attack with rama
you don't have enough time before he goes up
fo2 btw
solar maple
you don't have to powershot
you just do sad little mini shots and cry
or at least that's what I do
eternal hare
you can certainly do it that way too, but I like to think that the knowledge that the powershot is possible might be a little inspiring
unique zephyr
Is flurry or triple shot better for zag bow
neat sonnet
Question: how does explosive shot interact with shared suffering? Does it just transfer the shot damage as is regardless of your distance to the others?
unique zephyr
or point blank
I have a choice between point blank, triple, and flurry
my first chamber hammer choice is between flurry shot, point blank shot, and triple shot
which is the best
honest kernel
choice between flurry and others is preference
also iirc you just transfer your attack dmg which is +300% thanks to explosive so yea
neat sonnet
I totally meant point blank but yeah
I guess it’s just dmg = first hit x shared suffering %
bronze viper
how the hell do you kill it with rama on mm
Stand on top of the gorgon, wait for the Skullcrusher to land, time a Meg to iframe and strip the armor. Use special to tag both of them. Wait for Skullcrusher to land, dash through the wave and cast + charge full powershot at Gorgon.
This has a fail rate depending on how frisky Megagorgon is about moving and teleporting but yeah the fight can drag for a while if you don't do this.
unique zephyr
Is it just me or does Zag bow hate FO2?
bronze viper
It's hard, but not like uniquely hard
unique zephyr
oh so it's not like arthur in that respect
bronze viper
Nope
unique zephyr
Here is my 40 heat pact:
HL5
LC4
CF2
JS1
EM3
FO2
MM
HS
UC
BP2
TD3
bronze viper
This seems reasonable. You could lighten up on something with AP1
unique zephyr
this is from memory while playing I'll check it later
how bad is AP1?
I never tried AP in a serious run
unique zephyr
glad my pact isn't crazy though, I got two 40 heat clears with it already
Hestia rail and Hades spear
hades spear took over 40 tries
bronze viper
Lol Hades is not easy, so that's not too surprising
unique zephyr
I was thinking you were talking about the game until I remembered it was the spear
but I guess at high heat that applies to the game too 😛
it is a fun aspect though
at least for me
bronze viper
Yeah I like it. Debuffs op
unique zephyr
if I didn't have so much fun I wouldn't have perservered
eager vortex
Stand on top of the gorgon, wait for the Skullcrusher to land, time a Meg to ifr...
so the trick is to nuke gorgon and kill stomper with sp
bronze viper
Yeah, Meg should strip all of their armor, and the suffering damage with decent attack damage/hammers should kill Skullcrusher or at least very close
eager vortex
one other thing is
if your special is hitting good enough I think you can finish off stomper with it
still, I'd rather face witches or the ship with rama
bronze viper
Yeah Power Couple for sure has the highest variance and potential time spent for Rama
unique zephyr
For the skull athena DD glitch does it apply if you get the athena DD while wearing skull?
or is it only if you equip skull while having an athena DD
bronze viper
Yes
It applies very uniquely lmao
You get another bad SD, then when you leave the room it turns into a Skelly DD, then it goes away iirc?
Something crazy janky like that. I had it happen to me on stream, I intentionally took Athena to see what would happen after I lost the first DD
unique zephyr
should i just not combine athena DD with skelly at all
and I'll be safe
this glitch kinda sucks for high heat ngl
bronze viper
should i just not combine athena DD with skelly at all
For now, yes.
eager vortex
eternal hare
rip useless hammer
honest kernel
seems good
honest kernel
its bad
bronze viper
It's real bad lol
eager vortex
other than that ?
bronze viper
It's like halfway not literally the worst for Zag bow but hilariously bad on Rama
eternal hare
build looks mostly fine other than that
eager vortex
okay
bronze viper
Pact/mirror look fine too
eternal hare
i personally lean hunter dash over athena but for defensive purposes it's perfectly viable
bronze viper
Yeah Hunter Dash is kind of ridiculous on Rama
bronze viper
But yeah it's hard to complain about Divine Dash lmao
unique zephyr
ah ok, I think I'll take AP1 over CF2, is there anything I should play differently when I take AP1, like not go for certain builds
bronze viper
Nope
unique zephyr
or is AP1 just kind of annoying but not really hurting my build enough to play differently
bronze viper
You can do normal stuff, it'll just be roughly 33% less consistent
unique zephyr
I'm wondering now if mathematically CF2 or AP1 hurts your build more
bronze viper
also rerolls are approximately also 33% worse
eager vortex
ap1 has the possibility of ruining your mood by disabling that duo or legendary you're aiming for the whole run
bronze viper
CF2 is almost certainly harder than AP1 for most builds
eager vortex
or hammer
bronze viper
But AP1 burns
eternal hare
AP just feels bad but if you get lucky you can pretend it doesn't exist, but CF2 actually unconditionally hurts you
bronze viper
It's better to build the salt resistance early though ;3
honest kernel
if your doing 40 baccus, you dont have to take either one really
otherwise I'd prob prefer ap1
honest kernel
my standard 40 pact is like
eager vortex
that pact looks fine to me
bronze viper
I think his pact is fine. It's 40 heat, you have to take something yucky
true fable
i run that pact but CF1 HS instead of CF2
unique zephyr
Your pact is the same as mine
eager vortex
it's the same pact
unique zephyr
Toffel
honest kernel
hades urns
eager vortex
yes you have hs she has js2
unique zephyr
ah ok I have JS1 HS
otherwise it's the same
i just saw it's mostly the same and assumed it was all the same
JS1 hurts my timer a bit already
honest kernel
I legit confused CF with CP
honest kernel
I am not good with the abverbs
bronze viper
HS sucks but it's also mostly entirely under you control. So ti's """""free""""" heat
true fable
yup
bronze viper
HS gets kinda nasty with EM4 though. There are... a kind of stupid number of urns at any given time lol
hoary pasture
HS sucks but it's also mostly entirely under you control. So ti's """""free""""...
mostly 👀
honest kernel
what u gotta do on 50 tho
true fable
think im gonna try to bang out 50 heat poseidon and zag today
bronze viper
Zag sword?
eager vortex
yes 50 beo
true fable
congrats!
bronze viper
I don't think i've ever been to your strim
true fable
what cast?
eager vortex
thanks
bronze viper
Link in self-promo?
eager vortex
aphro
bronze viper
Also when'd you change the avatar to Hector lol. Hector is dope.
unique zephyr
I was gonna say, Hector is awesome
true fable
i love hector
unique zephyr
just thought of how cool it would be for an Infernal Arm to be an axe
true fable
the original fire emblem himbo
bronze viper
In a game very concentrated with whiny emo babies Hector was like, my hero.
true fable
might change back to watashi since people are starting to confuse me with wriste
unique zephyr
keep it imo
true fable
might
bronze viper
Max heat
true fable
baj kind of killed it
bronze viper
Retrash got to mid elysium with Eris too
unique zephyr
mid elysium? nice
bright mango
Everything is fun and games until superdad
bronze viper
I gave him too much benefit of the doubt. I saw Lightning Strike and assumed the screenshot was from Zag Sword. Didn't question how insane that would be because #RetrashThings
true fable
baj got to 33
eager vortex
it's misery
unique zephyr
I wonder how annoyed hell mode players were with CP being mandatory, especially those who didn't push heat
(never played hell mode)
bronze viper
Yeah it's a slog. His life total is already mega inflated but it also makes his heal better I think? I don't know if it's a flat number or percetange, but either way it gives him more chances to use it
bronze viper
I wonder how annoyed hell mode players were with CP being mandatory, especially ...
It's awful
bronze viper
As much as we meme about PL being mostly free, CP1 locked is the worst
bronze viper
Nope
unique zephyr
Pseudo said "you use hell mode when you're willing to take CP1 for 2 heat"
eager vortex
okay
unique zephyr
that sounds pretty accurate actually but I haven't pushed heat far enough to want CP1
bronze viper
This is a great way to put it
unique zephyr
How much better is CF1 than CF2 in terms of how much it hurts you vs heat spent
I may go CF1 JS0 AP2
Or is the gap from CF0 to CF1 more than CF1 to CF2
bronze viper
Gap bigger for the latter
CF1 -> 2
With CF1 you can still pretty trivially buy boons from 1 obols room
+Ambient/starting gold
You just can't buy every shop out + well like with CF0 lol
distant cradle
Question
If I wanna do a faster total run like with demeter fists
Would the extra enemy speed be better for heat?
gaunt fiber
Yes, because it will make them spawn faster
bronze viper
General rule of thumb is take as much FO as you can while you can reliably not get hit out of your own animations or just straight up die
gaunt fiber
FO2 is kinda brutal at first
but getting used to it is very nice if you want to grind heat eventually
solar maple
I actually don't agree with CF2 being a bigger jump than CF1
CF1 loses you a ton of health
and health is good
gaunt fiber
pff
bright mango
@bronze viper does this remind you of anything?
Charged shot is a complete mf scam
I was practicing for 50 beo
bright mango
Everything was dark and scary
gaunt fiber
ikr 
gaunt fiber
Clutch gaming is not a given
ashen garnet
Everything was dark and scary<:shadegrief:520448187358642194>
You can always pause and push the brightness slider to the maximum 
gaunt fiber
Yeah in the urn zone
ashen garnet
The "oh sh** I am on overtime with 100HPs left" zone, always feels bad
gritty flame
How long can styx tunnels be?
Each mini encounter uses up a charge on items like braid of atlas, right?
bright mango
Yes
gaunt fiber
yes
gritty flame
So what is max length of a tunnel
gaunt fiber
Styx tunnels are 3-4
gaunt fiber
If you want to die to heal from SD you do always do it on the 3rd
But I think you can get another "room" before the sack/final one
The sack won't consume any charge
solar maple
the cast was there. They had no choice
bright mango
the cast was there. They had no choice
Me?
eager vortex
Em4 urns are complete BS
+100
solar maple
yeah snow burst priority goes significantly down with cshot
it's still great, but no longer absurd
bronze viper
LOL welp that's about right.
eager vortex
some asphodel maps are bigger than tamriel
I just spent 30 seconds looking for the enemies
they were hiding
gaunt fiber
Hide and seek Asphodel is a well known activity
gaunt fiber
sub 9 is grindy y
eager vortex
pengy are you doing 50 heat beo
bright mango
I was practicing the super dad fight
At 45
So I had no AP or CF
Just the hard dad fight
eager vortex
(or you die)
eager vortex
charged allows you to keep some distance
solar maple
you don't need to keep distance when you block 
honest kernel
Charged Shot is way riskier
Losing out on the bullrush I-frames is a huge deal at high heat
gaunt fiber
Charged shot is playing Hades the game
honest kernel
Can't have that
eager vortex
iuno I did it with charged shot, I dunno how it would feel without
solar maple
I do think if I ever go for a really fast 50 heat it will be with charged shot though
unique zephyr
but getting used to it is very nice if you want to grind heat eventually
Can confirm, I’m glad I bit the FO2 bullet
solar maple
it is definitely doable with cshot
unique zephyr
Set me up for learning 40 and made my 32 pacts a lot less icky
solar maple
beo is still amazing at the fight
unique zephyr
I’m also glad I learned TD3
bright mango
I just did charged shot for funsies
unique zephyr
Going fast is better for my health than really long enemy rooms anyway
unique zephyr
TD2 32 and 40 heat pacts seem awful
eager vortex
I tried to do the same fight with hera and failed hard
gaunt fiber
Long runs is what hurt my sanity
unique zephyr
In terms of “when will this room ever end”
eager vortex
beo is pretty good yea
bright mango
Mr ledger doing td2 at 50
unique zephyr
How
gaunt fiber
Ledger is special
bright mango
The special kid
bright mango
Lmao
solar maple
yeah I think beo is very clearly the best at em4
bright mango
GEMSTONES
gaunt fiber
Oh god we lost him
solar maple
there are a few other aspects that handle it reasonably well
gaunt fiber
He went Ledger
unique zephyr
CF2 is a lot less painful with TD2 I admit
eager vortex
there are a few other aspects that handle it reasonably well
how's hestia
unique zephyr
Because you can actually skip mid shop
gaunt fiber
Oh nice Ledger is streaming atm
unique zephyr
I only skip mid shop when I’m really confident on timer
honest kernel
how's hestia
Is one of the better ones for EM4
gaunt fiber
No way he reads us
bright mango
Tried superdad hestia and made it to the end of phase 3
unique zephyr
After I do my thing that starts in 10 mins
bright mango
Super dad is freaking hard
eager vortex
yea I thought hestia would be okay with it too
as long as you're not doing fists huh
honest kernel
or sword
eager vortex
miserable probably
solar maple
if you want to see some quality em4 gameplay watch some retrash vods
unique zephyr
My friend did 32 for the statue and his pact was peak TD2 gaming
bright mango
^
solar maple
he is by far the best at it
bright mango
I’m pretty sure my first 32 was JS3 and CP2
solar maple
man did em4 with arthur recently
unique zephyr
He said CP didn’t feel that different
bright mango
I was a TD2 and EM2 gamer back then
unique zephyr
I did EM2 for fists
eager vortex
cp and ap are my most disliked pacts lol
bright mango
Mine is CF
unique zephyr
Subbed in hard labor because EM3 FO2 felt hard for fists
bright mango
And AP
unique zephyr
I hate CF
gaunt fiber
I think I just hate JS
solar maple
RI stinky
bright mango
Astaos did you see my ap deadly flourish clip?
bright mango
Yes it is
solar maple
you are free to be wrong
bright mango
^
unique zephyr
Pseudo you said RI2 AP1 builds look about the same as RI0 AP2 builds right
Same in quality I mean
Not to mention no dark foresight = fewer hearts
And other useful things
solar maple
I think RI0 AP2 builds are better on average than RI2 AP1 builds, other than on super hammer reliant weapons
eager vortex
ri2 ap0 builds 👌
gaunt fiber
Being able to roll is huge and you get a lot of boons so you'll get cores easily
unique zephyr
Actually I’m curious how much RI2 without AP gets scuffed build wise
eager vortex
I’m genuinely asking because the idea of AP2 sounds awful
ap2 is complete, utter disappointment
solar maple
yeah with RI0 you just fill up your core slots very quickly
and you get tones of health
eager vortex
and the pact you need to actually become a gamer
solar maple
I mean I did chaos shield with AP2 RI0
unique zephyr
Can guan yu even run RI2 at high heat
unique zephyr
Starting with 25 health seems not great
bright mango
Can guan yu even run RI2 at high heat
Watch astaos vid
solar maple
which leaves it in quite a conundrum
bright mango
His 50 clear
unique zephyr
Watch astaos vid
Which one? Any guan yu run?
solar maple
GY 50
gaunt fiber
25 hp 
bright mango
LUL
solar maple
25 hp 
bright mango
no
solar maple
15 hp 
honest kernel
I do RI3 for 55+ lmao
bright mango
Crepes did it for 56 hestia
solar maple
so I had to do JS1 CP1 to clear TD3 lol
solar maple
zeus does fine with 1 dash
bright mango
The charge becomes a dash
solar maple
best 1 dash aspect in the game
bright mango
^
eager vortex
honest kernel
best 1 dash aspect in the game
I hate it, but it's true
eager vortex
I barely use zeus shield so I wouldn't know
bright mango
Baj is disappointed
eager vortex
I try avoiding aspects that I'm bad at
honest kernel
Because it also validates Ruthless Reflex as an option
solar maple
zeus is ery good, but weird to learn
and yeah RI3 loses a lot of damage
I switched off of RI3 for chaos because I wanted RR damage for bosses
bright mango
How should I build for 50 chaos?
eager vortex
as much as I don't want to admit it I think I like beo the most out of shield aspects
honest kernel
Considerations for tidal dash start
solar maple
idk I just took dio and went with the flow
true fable
i choked zag rail so bad
bright mango
Zeus special like usual?
honest kernel
Yeah
solar maple
LOL
honest kernel
bruh
bright mango
Rip
true fable
that works too
bright mango
For sure
true fable
its good for high heat
bright mango
Idk about 50
eager vortex
I don't think it would work for 50
solar maple
I think it could get there at 50
honest kernel
I could see it working
eager vortex
but I did 32 and it was fine
true fable
retrash was using it for 55+ attempts
solar maple
way way back when my heat pb was 32
I got to 2nd phase dad with ares special chaos
on 45 heat
eager vortex
em3 ?
eager vortex
yea it's
a pretty slow build but
safe imo
td1 
gonna try zeus 40 wish me luck yes
honest kernel
gl have fun
solar maple
"I'm just too slow, I can't clear TD2 fast enough" -- person playing JS3 CP2 chaos shield
bright mango
Lmao
true fable
ive come to the conclusion
that 50 heat
is a lot like 40 heat
but with like
10 more heat or so
solar maple
mossy zinc
Do you have similar insights on 60 Heat?
eager vortex
as I expected I ran outta time at hades fight
iunno how to use this aspect effectively
true fable
to contribute to actual discussion
for anyone else who chooses to try zag rail 50
just reset for rare/epic jolted in tart
its not worth trying otherwise
IMHO
unique zephyr
so how helpful is ruptured and jolted? It's hard to tell
i don't "see" the damage as numbers pop up because it happens so fast and a lot happens on screen
especially in Elysium
solar maple
if you want to "see" the damage more, you can try the dps mod, I find it quite interesting
but yeah, jolted is very very good
and rupture is also strong
unique zephyr
I have no idea how modding works for steam games or any game in general
Or if I can turn it on and off at will
What does dps mod do
solar maple
the main steps are: install python, download the mod importer, make a folder called "mods", put any mods you want in that folder, then run the mod importer. To uninstall you just take the mods out of the mod folder and run the modimporter again. all of this inside the game files
dps mod tracks how much damage each damage source does in a room
unique zephyr
Ah ok, there isn’t much of a chance of me accidentally messing up something permanently right? What do I back up
solar maple
here is an example of the meter, from my arthur speed/meme run
they have sort of weird names because those are the game's internal names for the things
unique zephyr
How can I tell what the internal names mean
I’m curious as to what you found that surprised you
solar maple
blade dash did much more damage than I expected vs bosses
you can see there that it did over 6000 damage in the hades fight, with pretty much no support boons for it
in high heat, I found that killing freeze was doing more damage than I realized
and I confirmed my suspicions that snow burst was fantastic damage on beo
unique zephyr
you can see there that it did over 6000 damage in the hades fight, with pretty m...
“Dash” says 5335
unique zephyr
How much HP does hades have
Is it 17 k a phase for normal no CP
That’s what I remember from wiki or close to it
true fable
that would be about correct
true fable
yup
unique zephyr
The worst part is you don’t even die fast
The room kills you slowly or you get out alive and time out next room
bright mango
What wep?
mossy zinc
Is it 17 k a phase for normal no CP
17k, yes.
bronze viper
Finally got the 45 down with this Curse of Agony pile. Razor Shoals doing the Gods' work.
wintry berry
Did you tried to do some ME build then going for something else ?
bronze viper
This run started with me saying I want to reset so I yolo put 2 rerolls into Dio from my second boon (tidal dash start) and got the call, so the rest of the run had no resets. Dio dodged every pom I got thereafter and I got stuck with Curse of Agony but no duo.
wintry berry
congratz anyway
eternal hare
it's always the most blursed runs that make it to the end
bronze viper
I guess my room RNG was on point? There were a number of rooms in Elysium I solved by stopping attacking and dashing until I have Call charge
I forgot to apply Doom to Minotaur and Theseus until halfway through the fight lmao
gritty flame
damn that's impressive. "Fountain finder" probably helped too, no?
Is bad influence all that helpful during dad fight?
bronze viper
Not at all. Had a huge part to play for the relatively fast time though
edgy arrow
wow yeah 16:49 at 45 with arthur is impressive
JS2 CP1 and all
congrats
tidal dash + dio call a valid build on its own
bronze viper
Yeah, Razor Shoals + Dio call is my favorite brand of cheese.
shy gulch
pain
true fable
why is AP sentient
true fable
like i dont even want jolted anymore
i DONT
just gimme my attack boon
im gonna say something controversial
i cant tell the difference between JS1 and JS3 anymore
LOL
its like
not that bad i dont think
solemn pulsar
https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulBelovedFinchRalpherZ-DzU5EM3M0bSXdB_c
EM4, keeps hurting me but i keep coming back 😦
bronze viper
i cant tell the difference between JS1 and JS3 anymore
I actually can't tell the difference between JS1 and 2 or 2 and 3, but I can still feel 1->3
Or 0->1
true fable
perhaps my brain is just numb
lol
im running a JS3 CP1 DC2 pact for zag rail 50
and my times are the same as RI2 JS1 times
unique zephyr
I need to get used to JS1+ TD3 still for 40, I’m having to learn to play my aspects so much better to not time out
solemn pulsar
AOE goes a long way to deleting JS in tart
bronze viper
So does FF damage and presumably having boons
unique zephyr
Hades spear handles JS1 + TD3 better time wise than Hestia and Bow have for me (I cleared with Hestia but timed out)
bronze viper
Hades spear handles JS1 + TD3 better time wise than Hestia and Bow have for me (...
Wow that's wild, at least from Hestia's standpoint. Hades is not a fast aspect
Comparatively
unique zephyr
Maybe I just got better then
Although hades took 40+ tries and I remember Hestia taking less
bronze viper
Yeah, probably. Surely if you can manage spins with Hades you're better about using special with Hestia now too :3
unique zephyr
I should count my Hestia 40 heat attempts
I haven’t touched Hestia but I think I will be once I do
I actually wonder how bad AP2 is on Hestia
bronze viper
It's one of the more resilient aspects
unique zephyr
Then I could just do my 40 pact + AP2 for 45
bronze viper
Up there with Rama and Zeus
unique zephyr
Shackle start maybe
bronze viper
That's... ill advisable
At 45 lol
Why make your life so hard for no reason
The pact I showed you in stream today works 1000% on Hestia
unique zephyr
I think actually using my special will help lol
bronze viper
Or if you're feeling cheeky you can do Tidal Dash start with DC1 on Hestia
unique zephyr
I love how the game is accessible with god mode and has a high skill cap
unique zephyr
I started with god mode and am now doing 40 and had fun pretty much all the way though
bronze viper
That's just sadface Eris aspect lmao
edgy arrow
I actually can't tell the difference between JS1 and 2 or 2 and 3, but I can sti...
based on the numbers, JS0-1 should be the most noticeable increase (+20%) whereas JS2-3 should be the least noticeable (+14.3%) which i feel like roughly aligns with my personal feel for it, but idk how much this is confused by when the extra enemies cause an extra wave or not
either way JS0-1 feels massive imo
bronze viper
It is, yeah. Whenever I play on my normal mode save it sometimes feels like half the enemies
edgy arrow
yeah it’s like half the reason i haven’t got far with my hell mode save yet; no maxed mirror/aspects means proper heat pushing feels bad, and JS1 CP1 means speedruns and just messing around feel worse
the other half of the reason is i still haven’t unlocked beo yet
chilly yarrow
what does "SD" mean
mossy zinc
Stubborn Defiance.
chilly yarrow
k ty
short sedge
When do you guys like to start taking EM4? Like what heat level do you think its worth the trade off?
I like running em4 for casual runs but shy away from it on high heat but as i push higher i know eventually ill add it in, just curious to hear others thoughts
solar maple
most people don't even take it at 50 heat haha
short sedge
Oof
solar maple
it depends on the aspect though
hoary pasture
Yea its painful
hoary pasture
To me its probably Beo
short sedge
But regardless FO2 HL super dad is rough
short sedge
To me its probably Beo
Havent played much with beo yet, but yeah blocking is uber nice. Though, i was saying hestia is just my go to high heat aspect not that its necessarily thr best for em4
solar maple
the current hesia wr uses em4 (two runs tied at 57 heat, both em4). There is also a 56 heat run with no em4
you can get away with em3 for a long time
solar maple
as high as 57 heat has been cleared with no em4, by baj (zeus shield)
honest kernel
50 heat is so much harder than 45 holy moly
solar maple
and that was no hell mode, so RI3 EM3, everything else maxed
that said, there is also retrash, who has just learned the em4 fight very well
and so takes it for every aspect all the time and puts up extremely good results
short sedge
I like the em4 phase 3 music so much i might just do that anyway lmao
hoary pasture
zag spear 50 heat with EM4 yea no im out
solar maple
he has done 50 heat em4 with almost ever aspect
and the ones he hasn't done are mostly top tier aspects lol
so it's definitely possible. Take a look at his youtube if you want to see how you're actually supposed to do the fight
shy plinth
Hadesprofessor I think has done 50 heat with every aspect too
Retrash has 21 at 50+
Zag fists are 45 and he hasn't submitted a Hera or a Rama
And boy those were not the two aspects I thought would be missing
shy plinth
His technical execution is really incredible
edgy arrow
hadesprof has done 50 heat all aspects (he was first to do it) but they didn't all have EM4
spice lava
Well, he picked EM4 when he had a clear plan, even if sometimes it was for memes
For an example, he did EM4 with zag fists using feather, thinking he could ripoff EM4 with a full dodge build
solar maple
380 overtime damage in heroes go the better of me
theseus at like 10% max health 😦
wait I had fiery on LOL
that might have made the difference
gaunt fiber
it's good for green biome
solar maple
I just forgot to change it after a DC0 pact
gaunt fiber
75 global damage?
solar maple
RR + FF
gaunt fiber
oh the RR gang I see
solar maple
RR gang indeed
gaunt fiber
are you telling me I should go RI0 RR Arthur
short sedge
40% more boons
Does dark foresight really give 40% more boons? I knew it was good but damn. Or is this figure something to do with rolls?
honest kernel
you think ap2 is better than ri1/2?
gaunt fiber
wait it's 50/50
short sedge
Oh i see you are just counting the 20% in a different way
gaunt fiber
How do I get two boons in tartarus miniboss included then
solar maple
so yes, you do see 40% more god reward rooms, as 70 is 40% more than 50
gaunt fiber
RIGGED
short sedge
statistics and percentages can be messy lmao
solar maple
that does not include shops, final rooms, (midbosses??) so it is an exaggeration
short sedge
True
gaunt fiber
oh
solar maple
but you do get more gold on RI0 too, so it sort of still works
because more gold rewards + deep pockets
short sedge
Yeah i myself quite like RI0
solar maple
you also just clear tart so much more often with RI0
makes runs much more fun imo
can be hard to keep up with timer though
honest kernel
yeah I die in tart so often
idk its not the biggest issue so far
the timer
but getting bad sack rng is a threat
solar maple
with something stinky like zag shield it is a real pain
I got good rooms + good boons (bad hammers) and still needed another min and a half for heroes
almost won despite taking 380 damage from timer though LOL
honest kernel
lol
ember bronze
Trying to push again after break, failed 42 on phase 3
Still just not good enough at EM4 to do it with the FO/HL levels needed to actually matter
honest kernel
Going back on some comments, I found this one. I will say that this is part of my ultimate goal with this game : Pushing Zeus Shield as hard as I can. This would go in two ways : Speed, and Difficulty. Unseeded 64 heat fits that second way. RNG would be huge, but it would also be the hardest feasible challenge in the game. After that, not much else can be upped in terms of difficulty, and it's possible. Herego, I will get in some attempts while I still have enough passion for this game. I'm, surprisingly, not too far off from actually getting to Styx already. The rest would incorporate Styx, a 2-sack, and EM4 Against a very likely tight timer. Writing it out there makes it ... honestly kinda close. Heck, even Retrash already managed to break into Elysium, and I'm sure if Tailesque was a bit more active nowadays, he'd easily get there too.
Crazy to say now, uh
mossy zinc
@daring hedge is currently in his training arc in Monster Hunter Rise. He'll come back with a new ultimate technique and one-shot 64 unseeded.
gaunt fiber
Lemme sharpen my guandao rq
gaunt fiber
True
neat sonnet
You also don’t need healing if you only have 25hp to lose
solemn pulsar
let's see how Arthur deals with JS3 CP2
It’s like lord of the rings versus lord of the rings extended edition
Aka long vs perhaps a bit too long
bright mango
Astaos going to do unseeded guan yu 64
eager vortex
healing with gy is hard at high heat because of fo2, I think it's better to just dodge good and spam that special
wintry berry
It's not that hard to heal with FO2, problem is TD
eager vortex
quick spin makes healing easier of course but then again if you have git gud skills you don't need to heal, 50 hp is precious
wintry berry
When I did my first 40 heat GY with TD2, I spent 2 whole minutes in a room tryying to heal
eager vortex
I'ma make a sheet listing the aspects from easiest to use to hardest
for no reason at all
just cuz I'm bored
(and a little salty)
bright mango
Just keep in mind that those opinions will change by person
bright mango
👍
eager vortex
why is me so hard to get
celest grail
its hard to get it early, thats for sure
devout quiver
ME in tart, or reset
eager vortex
got it in asphodel
celest grail
eh, natural athena in tart is enough for most runs tbh
thats what i aim for in most of my deMEter speedruns
eager vortex
doing gilga
I may be wrong
but I think it's not possible to get duo boons from god challenge rooms
mossy zinc
It's indeed not possible.
eager vortex
okie
mossy zinc
Very good when looking for a legendary.
Make sure you don't unlock any Duo Boons other than ME from those two, get 4 gods asap when you have Lady Athena and Lord Ares in your pool, and once you have Attack, Cast, and Dash, prioritize their Cast first and Blinding Flash second when Merciful End is not offered.
To get the priority boons out of the way and increase your chances for a Duo roll.
mossy zinc
Yes.
eager vortex
okay
mossy zinc
A lot.
mossy zinc
Yes.
eager vortex
naisu
mossy zinc
Been working on a spreadsheet for that all day, but I need a nap before I finish it.
1 slot is guaranteed to be a priority boon until you have those four filled. When they're filled, there's only a 10% chance of one slot being a priority boon as an exchange. So getting their Cast after you have Attack, Special, and Dash makes a very big difference.
90% chance to get 3 rolls for ME instead of just 2.
Except, there's always a 50% chance that Blinding Flash is added as priority.
So if you don't have Blinding Flash yet and don't have your priority slots filled, there's a 50% chance you only get 1 roll for ME.
It's not as noticeable as filling your 4 priority slots, but taking Blinding Flash definitely makes a difference.
If you get a choice between Lady Athena and Lord Ares, and you don't have Blinding Flash yet, Lord Ares will give you a better chance for ME.
Because he doesn't have a t2 status curse that has a 50% chance to be added as priority.
eager vortex
you're making me feel like I have low iq with all this math
but I get it
I think
devout quiver
do all t2 curses have priority shenanigans like that?
It seems like Zeus never wants to give me jolted, so wondering if i'm just getting unlucky
eager vortex
prolly unlucky
it's easy to get static discharge after getting zeus atk or special
I see it much more than double strike
which may or may not have a lower priority
iuno
double strike isn't a curse tho
honest kernel
i feel ike jolted has high prio but it might be placebo
junior bramble
How is the sword of arthur for like a 40+ heat run
The damage reduction looks like it can get stupid high
solemn pulsar
it's pretty good?
the more reliable way to reduce damage is just to not get hit though
and arthur can cause some issues with that if you're not used to the slower playstyle
shy plinth
It's good enough with practice
junior bramble
I always have a hard time between choosing that and nemesis for high heat runs. I'm also a dumbass and always land myself on traps
junior bramble
Is the high crit chance not as worth it for higher heat runs?
solar maple
idk I prefer nem over arthur for high heat
I don't think either is very good at very high heat though (50+)
shy plinth
I guess it also depends how high you're pushing too
junior bramble
What are your ideal weapons you prefer?
eternal hare
I am a member of the rama fan club
solar maple
beowulf gang
solar maple
zeus shield is also very strong, but weird to use
bright mango
^
mossy zinc
do all t2 curses have priority shenanigans like that?
Yeah. Static Discharge, Hunter's Mark, Blinding Flash, and Razor Shoals all have a 50% chance to be offered as priority boons.
bronze viper
Do you mean Razor Shoals?
devout quiver
probably
pseudo kernel
yeah the boon for rupture is razor shoals
junior bramble
Idk why but I never got used to the beo shield. Just never enjoyed cast builds but I feel like I should give it a chance
gaunt fiber
Deadly strike bad Heartbreak strike good
Tartarus bad
Asterius bad
Common Greater Evasion is BUSTED
distant cradle
Asteriusgood wut u talking about
distant cradle
I've only had him in like 5 runs
gaunt fiber
I got 5 or 6 CP2 Asterius mini boss in a row
distant cradle
Out of 80+
bright mango
you lucky mf
distant cradle
OOF
gaunt fiber
He killed great runs
distant cradle
I faced him my first run to elysium
bright mango
like free
wintry berry
If you get Asterius as miniboss, he'll have less hp when you confront him again
distant cradle
Usually asterius replaces like butterfly ball for me
bright mango
its not worth it
quartz mantle
I kept getting asterius mini bosses when doing fresh file runs
gaunt fiber
Copium
distant cradle
And I can kill both realtively quick
quartz mantle
Like 5 in a row
distant cradle
So
pseudo kernel
I've only had him in like 5 runs
i think you get asterius after mid shop
distant cradle
You know what has ruined good rhns
distant cradle
that mf SATYR SACK
I stg it looks at my time
Says "oh ur gonna pb this run"
Not today
pseudo kernel
what
pseudo kernel
so here's my opinion of easiest to hardest aspects to use
yeah i totally agree
gaunt fiber
Can't view it
devout quiver
Asteriusgood wut u talking about
Asterius best waifu
gaunt fiber
Too many factors imo
eager vortex
well I prepared this according to my playstyle
gaunt fiber
At 50 beo is way easier than Guan Yu for example
Same for Rama
And Zeus tbh
But yeah there's some skill cap
waxen relic
Should rather watch an unseeded run to learn
btw anything happen last week while i was gone?
hmm maybe i'll take the Monthly Challenge to "warm up"
gaunt fiber
Yeah but we don't really care about low heat problems here mr gull
waxen relic
Oh how many seconds?
bright mango
Idk if it is
solemn pulsar
I got 3rd place in 50 heat speeds :0
bright mango
I don't know if we can get any better mechanically
gaunt fiber
It is Pengy but it's absurd
solemn pulsar
Yeah there were 5 seconds of time save from power couple alone LOL
gaunt fiber
Mechanics are not the limit in any heat
solar maple
over the past few hours I've found some truly cursed arthur tech
solemn pulsar
They are important though
waxen relic
I did 50 heat beo if that's noteworthy
Grats!
gaunt fiber
Yeah
solemn pulsar
Give most other players that route and they’d struggle to crack 6:30 probably
gaunt fiber
Of course
eager vortex
Grats!
thanks, I remember asking around for an easy 32 heat setup a few weeks ago so yeah improvement
solemn pulsar
We love to see it
gaunt fiber
Lol
true fable
you won?
eager vortex
yep