h1-high-heat-strategies

[solar maple]

and yeah all the other info is redacted

too much of a boomer to have a permanent record

[bright mango]

My first clear was like 24:x or something

I need to check the records

[solar maple]

I do remember the first time I made it out of asphodel I died to phase 2 dad

[ember bronze]

I looked back at my first clear sometime, I think finding it on twitter

the build made no sense

[shy gulch]

mine was in the 30s or something

[solar maple]

dedge and +3 dashes are good it turns out

[ember bronze]

IIRC the first way I discovered how to push to the end was just Tidal Dash spam

[solar maple]

pretty sure I was using achilles for my first clear

I didn't really care about the buff, I just liked the mobility haha

[bronze viper]

Run 22 was my time PB https://imgur.com/a/hce1O4u

[bright mango]

42 min👀

[bronze viper]

zoomin'

[bright mango]

vroom vroom

[bronze viper]

Lmao, my favorite I've seen so far was this glorious "Slain by Tisiphone in Tartarus" with my first GY run at 11:10

[bright mango]

I spun too much when I first started using GY

I was like oooh my health is going up

[bronze viper]

I wish I had that excuse but I had level 3 Deadly Flourish

But it was probably spinning too

I know I liked doing that a lot when I started with it

[solar maple]

I was pretty happy with my lv 1 guan yu win on my 1.0 file LOL

[bright mango]

i also had lvl 1 Guan Yu until like my first 32 run

[solar maple]

I played it once and then never again

[bright mango]

Lol same

Astaos plz be asleep

Don't see my sins

[mossy zinc]

You died to Tis slower than Astaos beat 40 Heat.

[bright mango]

I did play it a bit more after I got better at the game

[bronze viper]

Lol, then there's this weird period of only playing Deadly Flourish on Chaos while I climbed heat 1->5->10

[bright mango]

I just kept using eris for getting my first few titan blood

[bronze viper]

Whoah, who is this tryhard, I guess I joined the DIscord around run 51, where I had Thunder Chaos with atempted Smoldering Air, Acorn, and a companion

27 minutes?!?!? Geez that's within TD2 time range

[gaunt fiber]

My first clear is chaos shield, Demeter on special and stubborn roots

Maximum safety

[gaunt fiber]

I have flashbacks of my Tartarus arc now. It was terrible

[bronze viper]

Lmao then my log gets fuzzy at 74 when I nearly won my first Rama run with a build that actually made a shocking amount of sense, and I think very shortly after that I started seeded life so nothing makes sense anymore.

[solar maple]

I followed the 20% darkness lol

but I always played the same aspects on each wep

other than sword, that one I played most of them

[bright mango]

#nostalgia

[solar maple]

I mostly played pos/nem/arthur, achilles, hated fists but played talos, chaos shield, chiron, and eris

[gaunt fiber]

I played random things then I tried to win

[bright mango]

I just kinda tried out haelian video things

That was my guide lol

[bronze viper]

LOL. Found my first GY win, Lightning Rod, Cold Fusion, Double Strike, Jolted with Thunder Flourish. I know what I'm about.

[gaunt fiber]

And then I discovered Nemesis and won a lot with it, I was convinced it was broken because CRIT

[bright mango]

I remember how frustrating styx poison felt at first

It just gave me a panic attack

[gaunt fiber]

What have you done

[bright mango]

ledger my first GY win was thunder flourish too

i thought it was broken

[bronze viper]

yuss

[bright mango]

I was like lightning go brrr

[bronze viper]

Quick Massive Spin Deadly Strike?!?! How do you lose

[solar maple]

I'm pretty sure I thought shield was just broken

you can block. Why would you ever get hit?

[bronze viper]

Lol, you haven't moved far from that point I see

[solar maple]

LOL

true

and I still hate fists

some things never change

[bright mango]

I hated shield

I remember getting to the butterfly ball with chaos and being like wtf do I do now

[shy plinth]

Now I wanna go back and look at my first clear

It was shield which I bet is fairly common

But I was totally playing it like fists

[solar maple]

though I'm pretty sure this was pre nerf chaos shield that I was playing

so I wasn't exactly wrong

[bronze viper]

Ah, run 89 is where I found my home. Relentless Diorama with Curse of Nausea and Low Tolerance, Ban Influence, Pressure Points,and Rip Current.

I have not progressed far from that point lol

[gaunt fiber]

Sounds like Schad too

[patent isle]

relentless diorama?

[gaunt fiber]

Bonk bonk bonk bonk bonk

[bronze viper]

Relentless Volley + Drunken FLourish on Rama

[shy plinth]

I remember how OP priv status felt

I took so many blinding flashes to activate it

[bronze viper]

It's still my favorite build lol.

[solar maple]

I also thought rail attack was just bad

I just ran away with special

and hoped for rocket/hazard/cluster/triple

[shy plinth]

I think my two favorite aspects early on were talos and nemesis

Big lol

[bronze viper]

Oh wow I was a FF gamer way earlier than I thought

[solar maple]

hm when I started I don't think FF existed yet

[eager vortex]

I thought I am near invincible with dd when I first started playing

I still lowkey think so

[bronze viper]

I thought you started post 1.0

[gaunt fiber]

40%

[solar maple]

no I played early access

I started on EA steam release

[bright mango]

I was a FF gamer since my first clear

[bronze viper]

"PS is free" Idk dawg, I'm looking pack at these PS runs and seeing a wholllleee lotta Demeter that shouldn't be there

[solar maple]

easy P status

turns out I played <100 runs before 1.0 though

I took a break to wait for the full game

I did like 50

[bronze viper]

Also I see a lot of God's Legacy runs with Zeus and Aphro but I haven't seen Smoldering Air yet. I do remember just thinking it was bad until I was forced to take it once.

By prophecy

lol

[solar maple]

yeah I thought smoldering was bad too haha

because I always forgot to use my calls

[bronze viper]

Same

[solar maple]

I never really had a plan with my builds

I always started coinpurse lol

[bright mango]

I always start mom pom

For just casual runs

See where that takes me

[solar maple]

once they added mom pom I started switching to that in aspho

[eager vortex]

I always started with collar lol never used god sakes

[shy plinth]

I was big on mom pom for a while

My divine dashes hit SO hard

[solar maple]

then I would take collar or tooth in styx

depending on how many DDs I had left

[bright mango]

makes you feel more secure to see that extra DD

[bronze viper]

Holy first Chiron run. CoL, Low Tolerance, Black Out, Scintillating Feast, Smoldering Air, Curse of Nausea Zeus' Aid

HOW DID THIS TAKE 27:15

[gaunt fiber]

My early smoldering were only with Aphrodite calls so I was not really a fan. To be fair I just spammed it

And now I love the lesser call

[bright mango]

yeah lesser call is great

[bronze viper]

Oh right, pre-1.0 Chiron. it probably took a couple of minutes to spread Hangover per enemy

[bright mango]

people do a lot of damage

[ember bronze]

I did most of my learning starting coinpurse and then picking gods in acts2/3 based on which way I was going

[solar maple]

I was also convinced for a while after gilga released that it must be good because it had +2 dashes

[ember bronze]

really learned a lot about the game that way

[solar maple]

and I thought greatest reflexes was beyond broken

[ember bronze]

These days I'd probably use pom

[bright mango]

exactly lol

The first weapon I started speedrunning was gilga

For more ME stonks

And I maxed it out not knowing that it did literally nothing

[bronze viper]

Lol, I think it took like 10 clears with GY before I got Charged Skewer for the first time.

[gaunt fiber]

Good job

Makes me want to browse my records too

I just know that at first I did not like Guan Yu that much

And then something must have happened

[bright mango]

Guan Yu themselves have inhabited your body

[bronze viper]

I seeded for Relentless Volley for my 49 clear with Rama in EA lol. I had a problem

In my defense the attack was pretty close to unusable with FO2

[solar maple]

yeah old rama was terrible. I remember that

the attack was just sooo slow

[bronze viper]

Twin Shot was also a lot shorter back then

[solar maple]

completely unrelated, but I wonder which aspect would be best for a blindfolded run

[gaunt fiber]

Arthur

Because magma

Then you kinda swing and try to win

[bronze viper]

Haelian did it pretty trivially with Arthur

[bright mango]

idk if its possible for someone to do a blindfold run without someone guiding them

[bronze viper]

Nah, it was Chaos jk

[solar maple]

no I mean without help

and that was old chaos

for that run

[gaunt fiber]

Then Guan Yu

[solar maple]

you have to aim with chaos now

[gaunt fiber]

Because you can spin and get free heals

[solar maple]

"free heals"

[gaunt fiber]

free

[solar maple]

I wonder what keepsake would be good to start with on a blind run

[bronze viper]

You could try to setup Revenge Arthur with Stubborn Roots and lots of DR

[solar maple]

because you can't choose boons

[bronze viper]

oh lmao

Good challenge category :3

[solar maple]

I guess you could hear if there is a green boon

and roll if not

but that's about it

[gaunt fiber]

The egg

For luck

[solar maple]

maybe shackle start

[bright mango]

shackle probably seems right

[solar maple]

oh wait it would be really hard to switch

so maybe just collar or something

[gaunt fiber]

I don't think it's possible

[solar maple]

why not?

[gaunt fiber]

Well random boons

Means no health

[bronze viper]

Because some enemies don't approach you lol. What is your out if a Gorgon is in the lava

[gaunt fiber]

And I think you have to tank the whole game

[bronze viper]

How do you find them?

[solar maple]

you listen

[gaunt fiber]

Aspho is a problem

[solar maple]

echolocation with casts 🧠

[gaunt fiber]

Styx is a nightmare

Imagine not finding the pool lul

[bronze viper]

I think Styx is fine. It's just that Asphodel doesn't really ahve walls

[solar maple]

I'll try a run

how far do you all think I'll make it?

[bronze viper]

I have full faith you can make it to Asphodel

[gaunt fiber]

Room 7

[solar maple]

hm do I do SDs or DDs

[bronze viper]

I have less full faith that you can make it to the door in the lobby of the first room in Asphodel :3

[solar maple]

LOL

[bright mango]

[bronze viper]

Also some of the minis are just GG, like Power Couple or Soul Catcher

[solar maple]

exalted shields seem tough to deal with

[bronze viper]

Oh, wait, nvm Soul Catcher doesn't teleport without MM, it's probably (?) fine

[solar maple]

same with theseus

Alright monitor off. Wish me luck

[bronze viper]

If I turn my monitor off Hades just goes to the other monitor

[bright mango]

Good luck pseudo!

[bronze viper]

He can't see what you're saying

[bright mango]

[solar maple]

Nah I'm on phone now

First boon took like 20s LOL

[bronze viper]

Maybe you should set up a stream where we can Twitch Plays Pseudo Plays Hades

[gaunt fiber]

TD3 or riot

I hope you'll buy darkness in shops

[bronze viper]

That's such a bold hope

That he'll be able to find things to buy in shops

lmao

[gaunt fiber]

I think he wikl

Like Tartarus is randomly pressing buttons

[solar maple]

C2 cleared

[gaunt fiber]

Congrats

[solar maple]

Found a door

[bronze viper]

I tried playing this game without eyes last year. It's hard. Respect

[gaunt fiber]

It's a trap

Why is there no heat pact that would like

Make the doors hurt you

[solar maple]

So fat finding the doors is the hardest part

Yooooo I caught a fish

Pog

[bronze viper]

lmao

What was it?

[gaunt fiber]

Prolly a sea creature

[solar maple]

Got the sneak meg

Ez pz

[eager vortex]

knucklehead

9/10

[bronze viper]

Wow, no Skelly for blind run

Bold

[solar maple]

Oh no

I activated a trove

While looking for the door

[bronze viper]

LOL keep looking for the door

Hurrrry

[solar maple]

Nah I just cleared it

This door is nowhere to be found

Got there

Bouldy room pog

Blind gift ezpz

[bronze viper]

literal ambiguity bonus

[unique zephyr]

How are you even playing blindfolded

I can’t imagine even at 0 heat

[bright mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826957258160209920/829443977714991167/video0.mov

I have no words

AP is RanDoM

[solar maple]

Wait in a trial

Oh no went against dem

Hmm I was just rejected from a chaos gate. Not a good sign

LOL I accidentally opened a well and bought healing

So I could go in the chaos gate

Random chaos is spooky

Lost a dd to meh, but that went pretty well ngl

[eternal hare]

did you just pray that the first item in the well was actually healing?

[solar maple]

I just bought them all lol

[gaunt fiber]

Lol

[solar maple]

No way i clear aspho though

Doors kill me 100%

Yeah I died to a door rip

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778725540643340312/829447669050245160/Screen_Shot_2021-04-07_at_1.08.24_PM.png

I had a good run

[gaunt fiber]

18:50

Nice

[solar maple]

doors are hard ok

[eager vortex]

hang on I don't get it

how did you fail 0 heat

[solar maple]

I was playing blindfolded

[eager vortex]

wait wat

[solar maple]

LOL

[eager vortex]

literally blindfolded

[gaunt fiber]

Lmao

[eager vortex]

rl ?

[solar maple]

yeah

[eager vortex]

okay that's funny

[solar maple]

I managed to open exctly 1 asphodel door

was pretty proud of that one

[gaunt fiber]

woosh

When you hear it, it's prolly too late

[eager vortex]

just ran around

spammed the interact key ?

[solar maple]

hestia really is braindead it turns out

[eager vortex]

I think eris would be better

blindfolded

[solar maple]

nah I'm playing kbm

I wouldn't be able to aim special

hestia I just press reload -> attack 20 times and it clears the room

also you don't get to pick your boons

without lightning strike eris is pretty meh

I mean look at my build. You think I chose that?

[eager vortex]

pretty decent build

you managed to enter a chaos gate

and get atk up

[solar maple]

yeah lol

I couldn't find the door in that room

but chaos makes noise

so I found it

[eager vortex]

now try

blindfold + no sound

[solar maple]

hmmmmmm

[eager vortex]

already disabling yourself

why not go all in

10 days later there is a new channel called blindfolded + muted strategies

[solar maple]

I wonder if there is a more consistent strat for dealing with lava blind

[eager vortex]

sure footing

[gaunt fiber]

Sound + knowing every layout

[eager vortex]

problem is getting sure footing

[gaunt fiber]

And guessing what is the layout you're playing on

[eager vortex]

while you are blindfolded

[solar maple]

echolocate with casts to find the walls

[eager vortex]

maybe arthur

[solar maple]

a few times I think I figured out which tart room I was in

based on trap sounds

I definitely had an X trap room

[gaunt fiber]

You're a gamer

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah this is the safe one

[hoary pasture]

How much heat we gaming at tho

[solar maple]

0 haha

well AP 2 is free heat

[hoary pasture]

HS

[eager vortex]

try getting to asphodel with hs on

[solar maple]

probably doable

I had 2 DDs left after tart

lost 1 to meg

[eager vortex]

arthur special makes sound right ?

that can help with lava I think

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah it does

[eager vortex]

other than that and sure footing iunno

seed the run to get sure footing

then wear the blindfold

[solar maple]

Or maybe just use SDs

and when you hear lava damage immediately dash back

still hard to find the door though

[eager vortex]

does poison make sound

styx may be a pain in the ass otherwise

[solar maple]

it does, but that doesn't really help you

[eager vortex]

cuz u dunno where the pool at

[solar maple]

yeah

[eager vortex]

yea well I kinda doubt you can even get to styx

anyway

[solar maple]

yeah just clearing aspho already seems insane

[eager vortex]

pretty interesting tho

a change of pace

js3 ri1 vs js1 ri2 beo 50h

(em4)

[gaunt fiber]

So I casually tried to read your pacts as a sentence

[solar maple]

RI0

[gaunt fiber]

Almost made sense in french

[solar maple]

🙂

I don't run RI on beo at 56 LOL

[eager vortex]

[solar maple]

my 56 pact is RI0 all maxed

[gaunt fiber]

mom pom gaming

[solar maple]

and yeah beo does JS3 very easy

[eager vortex]

you're forgetting the fact that

I suck at this aspect

[solar maple]

and yet you are doing 50 heat with it

[eager vortex]

seems like easiest to handle em4 with

[solar maple]

it is

[eager vortex]

I mean I did 40 with it

even 45

but I still feel like

I suck at it

[solar maple]

yeah I know what you mean

[eager vortex]

something is just off, I am doing something wrong

[solar maple]

I did 50 zeus but I suck at it lol

beo is definitely an odd weapon

[bright mango]

RI0 for beo

Max JS and CP

[solar maple]

^^

for non hell mode that is the way to go

[eager vortex]

ap1 js3 cp2 ri0 dc0 em4

looks good ?

[solar maple]

that's what I usually do yeah

[eager vortex]

I'm going to fail this

I can feel it

before even starting

[solar maple]

you are a DC sadist so maybe you should run DC2 CP0

[eager vortex]

beo okay on dc2 ?

[solar maple]

if you go fast it can

but witch rooms in tart make you go soooo slow

[eager vortex]

I'd be fine with cp if it didn't affect bosses

[solar maple]

it's not the worst DC weapon

better at it than arthur for sure

[eager vortex]

now now

that is untrue

worst dc weapon is prolly hestia

[solar maple]

yeah it hurts hestia the most I think

even the weaps it is terrible for can handle it with an early dash boon

it's just really tedious so I never do that

[eager vortex]

dd makes dc trivial for melee weaps

[solar maple]

splash dash is the way to do it for hestia

but you can also just not take DC

[eager vortex]

dc is free heat for majority of the weaps imo

imo is the key word, or words

[gaunt fiber]

Today's goal achieved

I actually submitted runs

And on my own free will, no threats needed

[solar maple]

I do appreciate that you used the precise mathematical definition of "trivial"

[eager vortex]

I can't tell if that is sarcasm

beo with charged shot is basically hera

[gaunt fiber]

It's way more powerful than Hera

but yeah same idea

Actually I think Beo turns in a kinda ranged aspect

while Hera wants to play at melee range

[eager vortex]

I feel like greater recall would work great with charged shot beo

am I wrong

[solar maple]

it would be good yes. Probably not worth taking plume though imo

[eager vortex]

well

no plume no recall

[gaunt fiber]

The only slight problem is you have to take plume

[eager vortex]

this is really fun

I am gonna run out of time but

charged shot beo is fun

[gaunt fiber]

It is super fun

But at the cost of safety

well it's still a shield and you have 100% of your hp

Although you have the terrible curse of taking 10% more damage

[eager vortex]

wouldn't be a problem

but gamers

usually have hl5 on

[solar maple]

oh no, you take 210% damage

instead of 200%

scary stuff

[eager vortex]

I actually started this as a meme run

but damn charged shot is great

I'll take it srs

maybe I can actually do em4 50 heat with beo for real

[solar maple]

charged shot is really fun. It blows up rooms

you have to play em4 a bit differently, but since you don't have normal beo muscle memory for it maybe it won't be as bad haha

it messed me up for a while because I tried to play in the same style

[eager vortex]

charged shot + aphro cast + greater recall

I'll try that

yea I usually avoid beo

my most used aspect is chiron which shows how casul I am

[gaunt fiber]

Chiron is cool

And super tough at high heat

[eager vortex]

and my most used boon is dd

by 72

closest is hyper sprint with 45 I think

[eager vortex]

is finishing 45 with chiron hard

[gaunt fiber]

45 is hard in general

But you should be fine

Chiron's problem is JS

JS when you have RI on basically

[eager vortex]

I already did it, just wanted to know if it's hard normally

cuz for some reason

I didn't have much problems

[gaunt fiber]

oh nice

Well it's "fine"

But it's still not a given

[eager vortex]

hardest 45 for me was fists

can I go js2 and ri1 with beo

[patent isle]

i hate strongbows

[eager vortex]

I'm running out of time lol

wait no

I'll go dc2 js1

or cp0 js3 dc2

yep

[solar maple]

dc2 is slower for me than CP2 or JS3 haha

[eager vortex]

em4 hades will take decades on cp2

scared

[solar maple]

eh with a pretty good build it's just a few mins

3-4

[eager vortex]

I'm tempted to seed starter for charged shot

[solar maple]

charged shot is very strong for room clear

I actually die more with it though haha. Maybe just from lack of practice with it compared to normal beo

[eager vortex]

just treat it like hera, assume you're using bow

I guess

I did

[solar maple]

I still haven't cleared 50 with bow haha

[eager vortex]

well me neither

[solar maple]

one of my worse weapons

but yeah that's what tailesque did

he got charged shot and treated it like rama

[bright mango]

@eager vortex plz dont do RI1 with beo

I’m begging

[eager vortex]

nah I'm doing dc2

ri0 dc2 js3 ap1

[bright mango]

I want to say that’s worse

But you should be able to get away with it

[eager vortex]

no way I'm taking cp2 on em4

[gaunt fiber]

it's fine

[solar maple]

that pact is clearable, just relies on some room luck

[gaunt fiber]

Special pivot always possible remember

[solar maple]

can't get too many unarmored witches

[eager vortex]

I never use special on beo but

may help

[solar maple]

don't use special haha

[eager vortex]

with dc

[solar maple]

if you are timing out the solution is not to turn on dc2 and special every enemy twice before you start playing the video game

[bright mango]

^

Lol

I use beo special occasionally in tartarus to finish off smaller enemies at the opposite end of the room

[wraith imp]

Just dropping by to say...I tried to play this game with a controller and it was brutal switching from k&m. props to those of you who play with controller. i'm too familiar with k&m to prefer/enjoy controller.

playing with controller feels like learning the game again for the first time.

[chilly yarrow]

that sounds like fun tbh

i play k&m rn

I've heard people say that you can make more precise movements with the controller, which makes sense

instead of locked to up/down/L/R, and the 4 diagnals, you get 360 movement

[wraith imp]

the trade off is the aim...it's no longer independent of movement and that's a MAJOR adjustment.

i love playing with beowulf and now it feels like a legit challenge.

[eager vortex]

you are saying I go js3 cp2 ?

[bright mango]

yes

I would say that is better than DC2

[true fable]

agreed

dont take RI1 AP2 or DC1 on beo

everything else is fine

for 50

although you shouldnt have to turn on CP2

[bright mango]

Ok reminder to self to never take sigil into em4

[eager vortex]

why aren't there boss hermes rooms

[solemn pulsar]

There are in Styx sometimes

[eager vortex]

[solemn pulsar]

If you go into Styx with only 1 Hermes picked up (selling doesn’t count) one can be on either the normal or boss door

[bright mango]

^

[eager vortex]

selling doesn't count as in

if you sell a boon

and it's hermes

it still thinks you got 2 or

[bronze viper]

You can only get 2 total Hermes boons per run through any means, or a 3rd one through the Styx shop. Which means if you sell one, that still counts towards the 2

[eager vortex]

oh okay I get it

ty ppl

[gaunt fiber]

Styx shop or tunnel if you sell one right? I watched a beginner a while ago. He had 2 hermes boons and purged one in Styx transition, got a Hermes tunnel after

I was a bit shocked

[solemn pulsar]

Shouldn’t happen

[gaunt fiber]

I saw it happening

I'm 100% sure

When I'll have time to spare I'll try to reproduce it

[distant cradle]

question

what heats should I run for 16 and 32 heat

and also does doing 32 heat unlock skelly's rewards?

I need to do the 16 heat one

[eager vortex]

got to phase 3 twice then died lol

trying again and again

I'm bored now

phase 3 is just cheap

I'm gonna up brightness

[bright mango]

What cast u doing?

[eager vortex]

aphro

I'm not even mad

just pretty bored

cuz always the same thing keeps happening

I'm getting to his phase 3 very consistently

then dying

dying consistently

more like giving up when my hp goes low

hmmmm

I gotta admit, cp2 is kicking my ass here

maybe I should save meg for phase 3

[bright mango]

Make a practice save

[distant cradle]

?

[distant cradle]

phase 3?

[eager vortex]

but then it wouldn't be a legit run

I want it to be legit ya

[eager vortex]

yes, hades phase 3

[distant cradle]

ahh em4

you can use meg on hades?

[eager vortex]

yep

[distant cradle]

but you can't?

at least when I did it

[eager vortex]

I think you gotta progress thru the story

or something

[distant cradle]

on hades himself?

meg works?

[eager vortex]

yes

[distant cradle]

but I did the crdits

and got than's and meg's companions

and it doesn't let me use it on him

[eager vortex]

[distant cradle]

is it just his 3rd phase?

[eager vortex]

no I never used it on 3rd phase yet

[distant cradle]

huh

that's weird

[eager vortex]

I'm not sure when you can start using it

hey guys help here

[distant cradle]

wiki says u can eventually use it

[eager vortex]

[distant cradle]

doesn

doesn't say how long is eventually

[gaunt fiber]

You can eventually

Have you maxed Hades relationship things

[distant cradle]

ye but is there a condition to meet

oh

u can up hades relatinship?

[eager vortex]

yes

[bright mango]

Yes

[distant cradle]

huh

my only high ones are the olympians and meg and than

[eager vortex]

give nectars to dad I guess ?

[distant cradle]

ig ill go spam him with nectar

[eager vortex]

okay back to topic

em4 is harsh

I'm going back to try again

[distant cradle]

wut wepon u usin

[eager vortex]

beo

[quartz mantle]

You gotta get to the credits first

[distant cradle]

I have

The boat and stuff?

At 10 runs

[quartz mantle]

Yea you should be able to nectar dad now

[frosty bloom]

32 heat still kicking my ass lol. i hate not healing with LC4. can i change around the heat options or is this just a git gud moment?

[shy gulch]

either? there are definitely pacts where you can take DDs at 32, its pretty flexible at 32

but you could also get used to LC4 and do it like that

[shy plinth]

Are you resetting health often?

Like with lava etc

[frosty bloom]

yea but 30% health still isnt a lot for me esp once i reach hades

and i feel lik trying my luck to get extra DD with athena isnt working out either

[shy plinth]

The boss fights take practice

That's where you have the most opportunity to clean up the game, it's really worth it even though it is a difficult transition

What pact are you using

[frosty bloom]

the ones that are pinned in this channel

[shy plinth]

Ok, you're not using any JS or CP right

I don't know if you play with FO or not, I found the bosses much easier when I turned down HL and played with FO2 instead

But your mileage may vary

[frosty bloom]

higher speed but less damage, i see

FO2 sounds insane tho lol

[mossy zinc]

Are you using the Evergreen Acorn for Hades?

[frosty bloom]

I use JS with eris and CP with chrion

[shy plinth]

Don't use CP

It's a nightmare

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't use either at 32.

[frosty bloom]

yep, i use skelly for the theseus fight

[shy plinth]

I'd recommend posting the full pact just to make sure

You can use acorn for both

But tooth is fine

[mossy zinc]

Only thing that ever really kills me in Elysium with EM2 is normal Flame Wheels and Elite Chariots lol. So I much prefer Lucky Tooth over Acorn there.

[shy plinth]

I get destroyed by asterius when I play poorly so I prefer acorn

But both seem reasonable

[frosty bloom]

is broken spearpoint not a viable choice?

[shy plinth]

You could take it but you take the full damage when you get hit

[bronze viper]

It's a good keepsake without a very clear use case

In a situation where you would be taking a whole bunch of smaller, sustained hits, then it would be excellent

[mossy zinc]

The use case was all the time when it didn't have a cooldown yet.

[bronze viper]

Lmao that was a thing?

[mossy zinc]

It was.

[bronze viper]

Seems balanced.

[mossy zinc]

Absolutely.

[shy plinth]

Oh my

[bronze viper]

But yeah, typically you take keepsakes to survive the bosses, or if not the bosses, then Tooth maybe in Elysium to survive bad rooms. Spearpoint doesn't really... do that much against either of these use cases? It's moderate against Theseus drive-by's but awful against Asterius, decent against Flamewheels but awful against Chariots, good against poison but super medium against Dad, and straight up terrible against Superdad

[shy plinth]

It's good against superdad in phase 1 if you roll butterflies

🙃

[bronze viper]

My favorite is getting megachunked for 100 damage from a spear toss then getting Holy Shield

"Thanks for the assist, Athena"

[edgy arrow]

Theseus’ drive bys are by and large the least dangerous part of that fight anyway

[eager vortex]

is empty inside good or should I get rid of it

I need to choose between ravenous and this

beo

[bronze viper]

How are you weaking?

Strike?

[eager vortex]

cast

wait

[bronze viper]

If Passion Flare it's very close to nothing

[eager vortex]

really

okay then I made the right choice

[bronze viper]

Lol you should always be cast-splosioning onto stuff, like at all times.

[honest kernel]

Just sayin', Ledger is streaming high heat Arthur right now

[shy plinth]

👀

[honest kernel]

He didn't even put a message in #self-promotion

pls

https://clips.twitch.tv/QuaintCourageousVultureTwitchRaid-iiHVxA7kB5v1pieZ

You are never safe from a greatshield

NEVER

[frosty bloom]

Is there ever a time where we should not pick hammer upgrades?

[honest kernel]

Depends on whether you run approval process, and what weapon

or aspect, even

Some hammers can screw you over badly, notably on Sword

Cursed Slash, Dash Nova can both be a run-ender. If you run Approval Process, you could get locked into these

Also, sometimes, a weapon won't benefit much from a second hammer

Notably, Achilles spear with Flurry Jab doesn't need more hammers

[frosty bloom]

is there any foreseeable update that can allow us to reroll hammers? lol

[celest grail]

no

such a huge balance change wouldnt come to the game this late

if we were still in Early Access, maybe the devs could've been persuaded to do it. but now, no

also, it would sway the decision between Persuasion and Authority way too heavily

[frosty bloom]

truuee

[mossy zinc]

Amir has said in a live interview during the Hermes Cup that he's always seen the Daedalus Hammers as "more grounded in the world," hence they're not supposed to be rerolled. Every item you pick up is supposed to feel different.

[celest grail]

oh btw, @mossy zinc i got an ss of the thing yall were talking about yesterday https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620090595385278507/829630584170086400/unknown.png

its price of midas!

[mossy zinc]

@celest grail good job.

[true fable]

finished 50 heat hades spear

explody launcher + charged skewer gud

[gaunt fiber]

poggies

[gaunt fiber]

Real gamers don't do that

[frosty bloom]

I did it!! 32 heat with eris !! ty for all your help everyone

[devout quiver]

oh boy, next time Fists pops up it'll be time for 32 attempts for me

[celest grail]

pls switch to dark foresight if you're gonna do 32 heat @devout quiver

[devout quiver]

Tfw people recognize me by my janky mirror

[hoary pasture]

lol

[hearty onyx]

You don't play dark foresight?

[gaunt fiber]

gotta farm that darkness buddy

[devout quiver]

Since I run Legacy instead of the Epic chance thing, I figured getting rare chance helps out a lot

[hoary pasture]

Dark foresight is huge

[hearty onyx]

You could alternatively run God's Pride

Unless your build lives or dies on one duo Legacy isn't that important

[devout quiver]

Ye. I get it dw. Consistency is more important at higher heat that high rolling is

[hearty onyx]

It's more fun too on lower heat to get more poms and boons than to have a few rare boons

[devout quiver]

But muh darkness. I need that infinite theme

Also don't have the mirror complete yet. Still need to max out Authority.

[hearty onyx]

Just return all your darkness with a key to buy it

That's what I did

I was stuck on 1 reroll for a while though

[devout quiver]

Yeah, I use a key to refund when I wanna use Authority. It'd be nice to not have to do that though. Maxed out every other mirror buff for same reason

[celest grail]

id rather do darkness farm runs for the theme than run olympian favor for like 30 darkness per run

but you do you

[devout quiver]

idk what you mean by darkness farm run, tbh

Like how is it different from a normal run, i mean.

[celest grail]

you go for darkness+% curses from chaos

and ocean's bounty

and do low heat, so no bounties

and check troves, for darkness

a normal farming run can get you anywhere from 2-3k darkness easily

[devout quiver]

with Authority to roll for darkness rooms? hehexd

[celest grail]

no

with persuasion to get chaos curses and ocean's bounty

darkness rooms barely give anything

[devout quiver]

makes sense i guess

[solar maple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/771815559410876446/829665747114000394/Screen_Shot_2021-04-08_at_3.34.39_AM.png pog

[celest grail]

sudden+explosive on ap2

insane

[unique zephyr]

50 heat clears still astound me, I’m working on 6 x 40 now

[solar maple]

that's 3/4 shields at 50

[unique zephyr]

Got rail and spear already

Working on zag bow now, haven’t gotten past heroes

[solar maple]

I now have more shield aspects at 50 than all other weps combined lol

[celest grail]

blocking good

me safe

[solar maple]

also health good. Me safe

470 max hp lmao

with weak + other damage reduction + patty + DD + SD + acorn I probably had close to 2000 effective hp for dad haha

could have tanked the timer for another 2 mins haha

[unique zephyr]

How much easier does PL from hell mode make making 50 pacts

If I ever do 50 I may just transfer a maxed hell mode save

[solar maple]

well for chaos if you want to get away with RI0 you would have to do JS3

which makes timer scarier

[spice lava]

How was the dps with a build like that? Decent?

[solar maple]

so you would have needed a 2 sack here

dps was pretty good at the end (for chaos shield)

dad fight was ~2:30 mins

it was a 3 sack, which is why I timed out

[unique zephyr]

I don’t need hell mode at 40 yet, is it around 45 when hell mode becomes nice

Or 50

[solar maple]

once you are taking CP, hell mode is easier

for different aspects that will be at different heat

[spice lava]

Depends a lot because CP1 is forced yeah

[solar maple]

another pact I was trying for chaos was non hell mode RI3

[unique zephyr]

What aspects like CP more than others

[solar maple]

with CP0

[celest grail]

i downloaded the maxed hell mode file partially for PL and partially for the infinite theme

[spice lava]

Well, no aspect likes CP

[celest grail]

it doesnt have the infinite theme

:(

[unique zephyr]

And speedrun.com has a maxed hell mode save right? Does it say how to transfer it

[celest grail]

seems like ill have to download ello's file

[celest grail]

yes

in the guides

in "save guide"

[solar maple]

I wonder what the way to do zag shield is

maybe just drunken strike again LOL

[celest grail]

lul

aphro attack may be decent, if you get it

or just shackle

[spice lava]

I still have unfinished business with ares special + dread flight

[solar maple]

the problem with RI0 zag shield is I can’t start with special

with chaos I was just starting dio and keeping attack or special start

tbh I didn't even really use special much until late elysium when I got explosive return

[unique zephyr]

I keep having trouble with timer with zag bow

is this just an execution thing or does zag bow have trouble with timer at 40 with JS1

[celest grail]

execution thing probably

you could also do hera 40 if you're comfortable with that

[pseudo kernel]

you might not be ready to do something like that with zag bow

[unique zephyr]

who are good zag bow players? I've only seen Tail's 52 heat zag bow

[celest grail]

zag does have terrible aoe though btw

[unique zephyr]

i've done 32 heat with zag bow

How hard is it to learn good rama play

[pseudo kernel]

its gonna take some getting used to

rama is the opposite of zag bow

[unique zephyr]

opposite in what way?

[pseudo kernel]

specials are different, and attacks are different

[unique zephyr]

i kinda know zag bow, any tips for zag bow then

in terms of not timing out mainly

not timing out and being safe

[pseudo kernel]

dash strike

probably the best way to play zag bow

[unique zephyr]

I dash strike all the time

charges faster

[neat sonnet]

the loop is unironically dash-powershot repeat

[pseudo kernel]

now its just practice

practice playing safer and making the right decisions

[true fable]

theres nothing much else to it

just position better between waves

dont dash badly

[unique zephyr]

between waves meaning as the enemies spawn?

[pseudo kernel]

yeah

[honest kernel]

I almost won chrin 45 today but dies to dad

now ap keeps being mean to me

[unique zephyr]

A more general question: how do I use aphro call well?

@mossy zinc you say aphro call is good but I don't know how to make it work well for me

or is aphro call being good a meme

is it good to pom it? and for regular rooms I shouldn't attack the enemy I charm right?

[pseudo kernel]

call is best at max

[unique zephyr]

it seems ironic that aphro call is the call that's worst with smoldering air

[true fable]

its not

arty aid is

aphro call is fine with smoldering

[unique zephyr]

why is it fine with smoldering?

[pseudo kernel]

it can charm everything

[true fable]

5 second charm

lol

its busted

keep in mind that while charmed enemies cannot hurt you

so if an enemy is about to hit you you can panic charm them

[unique zephyr]

Ah I see, aphro call makes me safer then instead of adding DPS like other calls

so are elite (skull rooms with no arrows) rooms slower or faster than normal rooms or does it depend

[spice lava]

Faster is you have a decent dps

but it's easier to take damages as well because it means bigger enemies

oh you mean in general, not just styx

in that case it depends

[unique zephyr]

yeah in general

including tart

[spice lava]

Tart is where your dps is the worst so it's probably better to avoid those rooms unless there is a precious boon to get

[unique zephyr]

ah ok

man the worst thing about savior numbskull rooms isn't that they kill you it's that they do so slowly

[spice lava]

not slowly with HL5

[unique zephyr]

well, I died in the next room ebcause of timer

it ate at least a minute of timer

I had HL5

[hearty onyx]

Not if you're playing GY

[spice lava]

to be more clear, there are 2 importants points to consider if you have a skull room: if the reward will be worth it or not and if you can do it decently without putting you in danger because of TD2 or TD3

ofc you have to wonder as well if considering your situation the skull room will kill you or not (elites are a pain sometimes)

[mossy zinc]

At common, I usually only use it for Greater Call, so I don't pom it.

I put poms on rare and epic, though.

[unique zephyr]

is the half/one second more on rare and epic at base really that much of a difference?

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[hearty onyx]

That's 1 or 2 seconds more of not needing to dodge

[unique zephyr]

does charm help a lot even if there are a lot of enemies and it only charms one of them

[spice lava]

The more enemies you have surrounding you, the more efficient it is I would say

[gaunt fiber]

Charming one enemy is enough

Especially in elysium

[mossy zinc]

Also, if you immediately kill the enemies you Charm every time, you don't get much from it.

[solar maple]

if you charm an armored enemy they usually do tons of damage to the things around them

[gaunt fiber]

Even your common brightsword lad

[unique zephyr]

That's what I've been doing oops

[gaunt fiber]

When charmed it becomes a killing machine

[spice lava]

It's still one enemy off the room which can turn your run from desperated into saved on critical situations

[bright mango]

Charmed enemies do a lot of damage

[fickle heron]

Does charming hades and making him dash into one of his urns while being charmed, damage hades? I think I once had this happening. I wonder if increasing the trap dmg via charon or heat would make hades hurt himself more

[solar maple]

I usually use full calls vs hades, unless I need a panic dodge and my dashes are on cd

with aphro call

his urns do do damage to him though, you don't need charm

[pseudo kernel]

wait what

[solar maple]

https://imgur.com/a/vAMmLgz

[pseudo kernel]

epic

[spice lava]

sounds logical if Alecto can damage herself on spike traps

[solar maple]

this is with 3 shards from the well, which are multiplicative for some reason

so 216x damage

[spice lava]

That's probably why Hades doesn't summon urns during P1: foes can die on them

👀

[unique zephyr]

So how good is proud bearing as a boon? I’ve seen high heat streamers ignore it

[mossy zinc]

Depends on your Call etc.

[pseudo kernel]

its a decent boon

[mossy zinc]

It's really really good if you have Hades' Aid or if you have like Zeus' Aid + Billowing Strength. Stuff like that.

[spice lava]

No surprise if high streamers don't use it

Because AP1 & AP2 already make it difficult to build a decent DPS

[solar maple]

it's pretty good but it has a lot to compete with in other athena boons

[spice lava]

and you never have any god's call as a first choice possible when you meet one of them for the first time

so at Tartarus you won't have god's call on the very first boon

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, it can push a really strong build over the top. But AP etc. make that unlikely.

And you'll probably want to reroll for DDs or Divine Dash at 40+, anyway.

[spice lava]

proud bearing only appears if you have a god call, and even if you have one, it's difficult because of AP/UC

[mossy zinc]

At 32, where you can still easily have a broken build, Proud Bearing with 25+% on a Zeus' Aid with poms on it + Jolted + Billowing Strength + maybe Double Strike or something is amazing.

But if you're doing like 45+ Heat, and you have a common Lv.1 Zeus' Aid with nothing else, Proud Bearing is just kind of okay.

[gaunt fiber]

Proud Bearing icon is art

[devout quiver]

lmao

[ashen garnet]

Forced Asterius miniboss into ch34 unarmored swordsmen
My TD3 is in danger

[bronze viper]

Me too :3

Though I did EM4 for Chaos too lmao

[solar maple]

tbh I probably could have done em4 with that build

but I would have timed out

and td2 is a scam lol

only +1 heat, and if I don't hit the crazy build I'm just screwed

now I just have to figure out how to do zag shield. That weapon is so awful

[solemn pulsar]

Unfortunately for you, the answer is charged shot

[solar maple]

I got charged shot once

still died lol

idk what to do with the pact

everything I try just seems awful

[solemn pulsar]

It’s a very honest weapon

Has 0 rooms

Tools

[quartz mantle]

Just gotta smack people around with it

[red basalt]

What about the Pulverizing Blow Hammer (I think that’s what it’s called)?

[pseudo kernel]

that is the hammer that makes attacks hit twice

for shield

[red basalt]

Yep

[pseudo kernel]

its a good hammer on zag shield

[bronze viper]

It doesn't fundamentally change the very fair nature of the weapon though lol. It's good though

[solar maple]

so the problem is that winning with RI2 is hard

but if I take RI0 AP2 then I never get good hammers

[bronze viper]

Probably EM4 + Charged Shot + Smoldering Air Rip Current nonsense is the first place I'd look

You're still mostly a shield at the end of the day lol

Or at least you have one

[bright mango]

heartbreak strike right?

Start

[bronze viper]

yeah

you'd need Heartbreak Strike to fight against the timer until you get your cheese fermented

[bright mango]

yep

Ferment it

And reap

[bronze viper]

Also DC1 probably better than CP2 on Zag shield if you're using The Beo Pact™

[eager vortex]

biased : dc is always better than cp

[pseudo kernel]

it is

[eager vortex]

near same builds on 50 heat beo

you'll take em4 hades down much, much faster without cp

that alone is worth it

[bronze viper]

oh, nvm, The Beo Pact™ doesn't have CP2. So you can just have everything. Nice.

[bright mango]

I hate DC

I will not take it with beo

ever

[neat sonnet]

I played GY and was told that DC was the devil

so

yeah no

[bright mango]

DC is the devil

[devout quiver]

just get more bloodstones

[bright mango]

its more so about the negation of dragon rush damage

[bronze viper]

I was suggesting for Zag shield. Either way it doesn't matter for HM 50.

I guess maybe you could skim js for DC but I don't know enough about the aspect to know how dumb that is. With Charged shot probably pretty dumb.

[eager vortex]

lol just did a 45 hera run without realizing I forgot to turn off em4

needless to say

what a waste of time

[bronze viper]

41 pog

[ashen garnet]

Almost made it through EM Heroes at 50 heat with a total disaster of a build. Boonless attempts are definitely helping to breach the 40 to 50 gap

[honest kernel]

imma try 50 too I guess

50 rama lama

[bronze viper]

Dooo eet

We need more llamas. They're a social species

[honest kernel]

only gotta figure out if I can do td3 or not

well time ti practice

[bronze viper]

I did not bother.

[honest kernel]

I made td3 work on 45 but 50 forces me to take timesink pacts

[bronze viper]

Max JS CP DC is relatively irrelevant on Rama so I didn't want to get Sack screwed

[honest kernel]

I see yeah

although I feel like about 90% of my runs I get to styx are actually 2 sack

but on the chance I won't get it its prob for the best

[bronze viper]

You'll need hell mode to get away with AP1 though

[eager vortex]

ledger

should I use arte or aphro attack on rama

[bronze viper]

Artemis

[eager vortex]

okay

[bronze viper]

Unless you're on RI0 AP1 and feeling cheeky with Smoldering Air

Lol on my 50 I started Dio because I have no self control and windmill slam picked Relentless Volley over Triple Shot to send a message.

[honest kernel]

oh yeah i should get the hellmode save from speedrun.com bc I dont have one

I also start with dio a lot....hangover stonks

[bronze viper]

Artemis also great for AP2, since you have a 50/50 reset on dash/strike and if you end tart without an attack boon you can take Shackle

[honest kernel]

oh yeah, do you actually start with shackle on 50

because im feeling god

[bronze viper]

I never start Shackle on Rama.

I mean you can, there are benefits to doing Shackle vs. Arty.

[gaunt fiber]

[bronze viper]

Most of the benefits are kind of mitigated by DC2 though, since you can't really one shot anything as it spawns and you don't really need 100% bonus to kill stuff with Suffering.

[honest kernel]

I see thx

[bright mango]

I think arty start is probably better for rama

Rama can carry itself thru tatarus without an attack boon and getting arty in your pool is nice

And as ledger said before, you can always switch to shackle in asphodel

I do prefer AP1 for rama bcs I need good hammers to function

[true fable]

artemis is just crazy good on rama though

shared suffering instantly makes artemis better than any other god for the attack

[bright mango]

Yeah my rama pact is AP1 + arrowhead start

[eager vortex]

nvm I can't even make it outta tart with rama

[solar maple]

idk I've just been taking 2 of both recently LOL

so no real choices

[spice lava]

Well some aspects require more training to get out of tartarus, that's a thing for sure 👀

[solar maple]

also at 50 I run hell mode so forced cp1, then don't need DC

never really had to make the choice

[bronze viper]

Rama has a hell of a learning curve but it's comforting that there isn't really a ceiling

[eager vortex]

I'm a casul chiron guy, rama too slow 4 me

[solar maple]

rama is hard

[eager vortex]

just encountered a room with a million of homing witches

[solar maple]

yes

[eager vortex]

I gave up without even trying

[gaunt fiber]

Wooooiiiiing

[eager vortex]

like as soon as I entered the chamber

[spice lava]

Rama is the best aspect to learn dash strike 😏

[eager vortex]

yes it's pretty hard to use

I'll try 40 instead of 45

[bright mango]

Rama was my first 40 even though I was absolutely garbage with it