on the bright side, you always start with athena dash
#h1-high-heat-strategies
gritty flame
yeah I got killed by meg on my 1st ever run pretty bad
celest grail
also you have a tooth pick for a weapon
solar maple
lmao
celest grail
You got to meg on your first ever run?!
gritty flame
yeah
bronze viper
I did too.
quartz mantle
You essentially get the god keepsakes since you always have Athena Ares Artemis and Dio(?) in your god pool
celest grail
i died on like chamber 2 wtf
bronze viper
I got into Asphodel once, died to something stupid and decided I wasn't doing that again lol. Holy cow it takes so long.
quartz mantle
But yea fresh file is much harder than mirrorleas
solar maple
god keepsakes would still be very nice for getting ME earlier though
celest grail
Also, midshops can only show you gods you already have in your god pool
solar maple
it basically would double your chance at the ME roll
celest grail
so, if you dont have ares in your pool, midshop wont offer a boon from him
quartz mantle
Are you sure about that
celest grail
the midshop thing? Yeah
quartz mantle
I definitely have seen boons in shops that I haven’t gotten in regular rooms
solar maple
I would say a first run that gets ME in a reasonable time where you play at good pace is ~20 min igt
quartz mantle
Maybe it was a pre-boss shop if that acts differently
celest grail
the midshop thing? Yeah
solar maple
so about the same as high heat
celest grail
nope, final shop is same
solar maple
my run was 21 igt on a 3 sack
celest grail
vorime's wr was 12min igt^^for reference
solar maple
going to try to do more to get a good time I think 👀
celest grail
But then again vorime is a god so
solar maple
yeah vor went much faster than me
quartz mantle
Then how do I get Hermes in the shop in Tartarus then? 
solar maple
I play the boss fights super safe
celest grail
Cant get hermes on first run
quartz mantle
Are you talking about specifically the first run?
solar maple
yes
quartz mantle
I didn’t know shops functioned differently on the first run
celest grail
vorime had the full build by tart end shop LOL
And yeah, his sword play is so smooth
solar maple
I wasn't really "speedrunning"
just trying to clear
the speedruns come later 👀
I do eventually want sub 25 rta
at least
bright mango
“Beo/fresh file prodigy”
solar maple
i mean getting a first run clear basically guarantees top 10 fresh file haha
as long as you try to go quick
bright mango
👀
solar maple
my time would be 7th right now if I submit
but I think there is a faster pending run
so 8th
mossy zinc
Another factor that hasn't been mentioned is that Broken Resolve unlocks Unhealthy Fixation.
mossy zinc
Also, midshops can only show you gods you already have in your god pool
That's most definitely false.
quartz mantle
He’s saying for the first run
mossy zinc
Ah.
celest grail
Lol we were talking about first run idk why people took it out of context
mossy zinc
It's not a first run channel. You're out of context. 
It's all your fault. I take no responsibility.
tidal flame
solar maple
specifically it is shops can only offer gods that you have ever seen on your file
so if you somehow get to the end game never picking up a dio boon shops will never offer him
mossy zinc
solemn pulsar
Enter weird speedrunning/high heat meta where you cycle between maxed out files with different combos of gods that haven’t been met for each aspect’s optimal builds
solar maple
though a few gods are unavoidable
athena/zues/poseidon/demeter all have scripted events I think
mossy zinc
Oh, I've never seen Lady Demeter before this Malphon run. What a bummer. 
solar maple
yeah something like that
celest grail
What's zeus' scripted event?
solar maple
the second run lmao
solar maple
first boon 2nd run is always zeus
solar maple
yes
celest grail
oh
solar maple
only darkness/keys are offered as meta rewards
which has a funny side effect on 3 exit asphodel rooms
where if meta rewards are offered it runs out of things to give you so defaults to food, which is actually very useful
mossy zinc
Just take Special, Cast, or Dash.
solar maple
3rd run is always hammer start btw
but you don't get 2nd hammer on 3rd run
one meme I was going to try is if I died late in a first run I would do an intentional death then unlock spear and check for flurry jab
if I had 4 keys
hoary pasture
Atleast it feels good after you switch back to your normal save lol
solar maple
2nd run is the weakest
bright mango
Really?
It feels kinda bad
But i can now get splitting with Zeus dash
I have the prerequisites
solar maple
yeah zeus start is pretty bad with sword/bow
and you still don't get hermes/hammers
all fresh file speedruns are on 1/3/4, never 2
gritty flame
where if meta rewards are offered it runs out of things to give you so defaults ...
Are you serious?
a room reward is healing w/ food?
solar maple
yes. This only happens in first run
gritty flame
hilarious
mossy zinc
You also don't have fountain chambers, so it's only fair.
mossy zinc
And Lady Demeter is not around to give you food, either.
shy plinth
Oooh snack room
honest kernel
Oh yeah I remember that
shy plinth
I could go for a tasty burger
honest kernel
Sad heal indeed
solar maple
better than nothing
honest kernel
true
gritty flame
all fresh file speedruns are on 1/3/4, never 2
You're telling me a fresh file 4th run is faster than a fresh file 2nd run? I assume the timer starts as soon as the file opens, right?
solar maple
yes, that is correct
gritty flame
Wow
solar maple
you just die really quick 2 extra times
gritty flame
Do they just kill themselves to get to the 3rd and 4th run?
honest kernel
pretty much
solar maple
yeah
gritty flame
huh
solar maple
sometimes you farm some darkness but that is slower generally
honest kernel
Also luck reliant
solar maple
first run is the fastest strat though
zeus start is just underwhelming on sword/bow
which is why 2nd run is never done
gritty flame
I just watched a speedrun video for Fallout New Vegas and they crash the game on purpose and launch a "shell" game which happens to be Stellaris and use that to inject data into the FONV game to teleport to the end game
solar maple
lol
gritty flame
Could anything like that be done with Hades
honest kernel
Unless you could make doors open up before a room reward is collected, not sure
And even then
solar maple
arbitrary code execution in hades is unlikely
honest kernel
The closest you could get is get past Cerberus in Styx, but the door isn't open even if you glitch past him
honest kernel
arbitrary code execution in hades is unlikely
Not without modding in, anyways
solar maple
lol
gritty flame
how do you people know this stuff!? haha
honest kernel
That's just stemming from my understanding of how this game's code works, from witnessing the various discussions made by this game's modders
Mainly discussing if they could skip stuff
gritty flame
What kind of barrier does the game give you that makes you unable to go past a room without collecting the reward?
gritty flame
Does the game only exist in that ONE chamber?
mossy zinc
Hades speedrunning but all the doors are open. Hades has 1 HP.
gritty flame
What I am saying is... does the Hades House exist while you're in a chamber in Elysium
honest kernel
I doubt it
gritty flame
Could you in theory "no clip" there
honest kernel
From my understanding on how the room generation is handled, no. A room is loaded when you enter the door in the previous room, and said previous room gets unloaded
mossy zinc
There's no reason at all for the House of Hades to be in memory mid-run.
gritty flame
Sure. But the fact the game remembers all your remodels implies the data is there somewhere
icy acorn
remodels?
honest kernel
When you do decorations
gritty flame
^
icy acorn
oh that
honest kernel
Via the house contractor
mossy zinc
Yeah, it's in your Profile1.sav.
icy acorn
wouldn't it be saved as text
mossy zinc
Mid-run is Profile1_Temp.sav.
icy acorn
it's not like they have to stay loaded
gritty flame
The data that tells your run if you get +5max HP when collecting keys is loaded somewhere though
that matters mid-run
i mean darkness
you get re-rolls from keys
honest kernel
Wouldn't be surprised if the reward modifiers were applied before the run began
Since, y'know, those modifiers aren't always consistent
gritty flame
ok but in theory if you could somehow manipulate that data you could get game breaking results
shy plinth
Sure, the theory of "if we change how the game functions we can break it" is true but fairly broad
gritty flame
But that is an "any %" speedrun, isn't it?
mossy zinc
Your permanent save and your temporary save are essentially similar. You can replace one with the other just fine.
honest kernel
The closest category we have to "any%" is Fresh File
icy acorn
i mean
"if we change a game you can break it" of course
that should be a given
it's all about that "if" in the beginning that isn't always true
and also, that would be considered cheating
i don't think that would count towards any kind of any%
honest kernel
That's where "any% glitchless" would kick in
Always possible to make sub-categories
gritty flame
You can cheat in any%
mossy zinc
More accurate than Profile1.sav is in the House and Profile1_Temp.sav is mid-run would be that Profile1.sav is the save that's loaded the next time after giving up and Profile1_Temp.sav is loaded after quitting. But if you're in the House of Hades and quit, Profile1.sav will be loaded the next time.
honest kernel
With all that being said, I don't think there's a way that has been found to let you access that kind of memory from a vanilla version of the game
gritty flame
there are "no glitch" speedruns for a reason, right?
honest kernel
And that conversation is best held with modders of the community
Devs have done a good job at fixing crashes and whatnot. Game's surprisingly solid from a bug standpoint
gritty flame
It was just fun to think about 🙂
icy acorn
That's where "any% glitchless" would kick in
yeah but i didn't mention that because that's not glitches, that's straight up cheating by changing the game files lol
gritty flame
Nyaanyaa seems to know a good deal about the technicalities
honest kernel
yeah but i didn't mention that because that's not glitches, that's straight up c...
Depends on what you do, and what would be considered cheating. Code injection is a weird topic on that matter
gritty flame
yeah but i didn't mention that because that's not glitches, that's straight up c...
I think if you don't go into any type of game file you're fine. If you manipulate the game's code by doing things IN GAME it is fair...game
icy acorn
i've never seen changing the game files or code being allowed as a glitch
honest kernel
It is a glitch if it is done within the actions and scope of the game itself
AS in, you go from a vanilla version of the game to an altered one without modifying the files outside of the game
icy acorn
yeah that's not modifying the code or files
that's, like, of course, the definition of a glitch
something unintended yet technically correct within the game's code
solar maple
things like that are the reason the super mario world any% world record is 41 seconds
honest kernel
... You do know you can kinda recode an entire game with some of the bugs ?
Super Mario World is the best example of this
solar maple
they inject code to tell the game to go straight to the credits
by doing purely in game actions
gritty flame
they inject code to tell the game to go straight to the credits
but you do things IN GAME like jump in a particular spot over and over, right?
solar maple
all in game yes
honest kernel
And that is exactly what we were talking about
gritty flame
Glad we're all on the same page haha
honest kernel
Causing a crash intentionally counts as doing an in-game action
Altho what's done after feels like a grey area to me
lmao
solar maple
you can take a look if you want
there is longer stuff where people rewrite the entire game into snake or flappy bird or w/e
using just in game stuff
solar maple
nice!
bright mango
Can I clutch up
honest kernel
What heat ?
bright mango
Hellmode
honest kernel
Hellmode fresh file ?
bright mango
New file
solar maple
I wonder what a fresh file -> 32 heat run would look like
solar maple
you would have to do some farming
honest kernel
Hey that's pretty nice
honest kernel
F
bright mango
This makes me see how much i take things for granted
ember bronze
Are multiple sources of dodge additive or multiplicative?
Was just messing with a lambent build for fun
gaunt fiber
additive
true fable
yup
dire steppe
I wonder what a fresh file -> 32 heat run would look like
i asked this earlier
no one ever added it though
bright mango
Lol I left my switch on to get get water and I died in the room
I would’ve won that run
Charged volley is definitely not balanced
ember bronze
First EM4 FO2, with Zeus
ember bronze
26
Turned down everything other than the “content to practice” heats
So EM4 MM BP2
And I guess TD2, because, you know, it’s just always there
My “real” way to push heat wouldn’t involve EM4 FO2 yet, but to start learning it before I try to get HL back into the mix
shy plinth
Yeah the pact I ended up using for 24x32 varied from yours in that I went FO2 over both points of CF and 4 points of HL
It was good for learning without getting punished too hard by getting hit
And also CF is the devil
ember bronze
Pretty understandable
I think I take less damage with HL5 alone than with FO2 alone
So FO0, while worse for learning probably, is the “easier” clear
Non-EM Hades is a pushover with FO0, he usually shouldn’t break Acorn
shy plinth
I would say it depends entirely on how unga bunga you play
In my case I go full unga bunga phase 2
And end up getting hit more than I should
ember bronze
I have a hard time not doing it due to panic in EM4
shy plinth
Bad habits learned from playing in the 20s
Yeah especially phase 3
And then you turbo dash to hit him, hit a jar, get swept, and taken by the styx
Been there too many times lol
ember bronze
FO2 where you can’t just spam dash and attack and all your other buttons whenever you want, becuase you’ll actually get caught by sweeps, is stressful
Along with the DPS pressure of P3
shy plinth
I learned so much by watching tailesque vods
I am a believer in the empty dash
All those bad habits I learned from pushing heat on fists when I first started and constantly dash striking are hard to break
ember bronze
FO0 is like, spam whatever, just watch for the white circle, wait a beat, then dash again
shy plinth
But just keeping the thumb off attack helps a lot
bright mango
^
ember bronze
It’s funny how much I’m playing Sekiro lately
But it’s hard to play Hades that way still
shy plinth
You have 8 months of muscle memory
ember bronze
Because almost all of Hades is just DPS hard, don’t stand in stuff
Basically until hard FO2 combats
shy plinth
"Don't stand in fire" has been a skill testing mechanics for multiple decades in multiple games to be fair
And players still fail it to this very day
ember bronze
And you suddenly have to play it like a game where you have to make the reads
shy plinth
Yeah thinking is hard
ember bronze
It’s much faster than any From game, it’s hard to compare
gaunt fiber
ember bronze
Like when Hades is in neutral, he can start double-sweep anytime (it feels like)
So putting dash on CD in FO2 is a mess
Also in P2/P3–the 2 swing combo is great, because he follows up with either sweep or throw, and dash solves both
But the 3(?) skull tosses followed by throw is always a problem for me
shy plinth
It's also amplified by how insanely difficult phase 1 is
ember bronze
I usually am ok P1, though I hate the adds that munch acorn
gaunt fiber
It's also amplified by how insanely difficult phase 1 is
I got past through it with Zag sword the other day
Then things happened and I woke up in the house
mossy zinc
Every single sub 10 pace with rail so far was ruined by sack RNG.
unique zephyr
No matter how much experience I get Seeker witchers are still the end of me
Having fun with my 40 Hades spear attempts even if I die early and a lot
kindred panther
Another factor that hasn't been mentioned is that Broken Resolve unlocks Unhealt...
Is charm even any good? Seems to me that it doesn't last long enough to really do anything. Any the enemy's attacks, though aimed at other enemies will still hit you if it hits you.
mossy zinc
Charm is very good, yes.
kindred panther
how am I doing it wrong then
ashen garnet
No matter how much experience I get Seeker witchers are still the end of me
Late side-dashes work fine, but they are such a pain and sometimes you are compelled to deal with them one by one 
shy plinth
Charm as in unhealthy fixation or the call?
kindred panther
yeah they have got to be my least favorite of the enemies in tartarus
mossy zinc
At worst, it stuns enemies. At best, Theseus and Asterius commit double suicide for you.
kindred panther
Charm as in unhealthy fixation or the call?
either one. TBH I never use aphrodite's call unless maxed
shy plinth
You should use it more often in the heroes and dad fights
kindred panther
but it's over so damn fast, how do you use it effectively
mossy zinc
An Elite Chariot can clear a whole enemy wave for you with one charge.
kindred panther
really
shy plinth
They bicker
ember bronze
Aphro call vs. Theseus is special.. yup
kindred panther
that's bad ass
ember bronze
Sit on call (any amount) while trying to keep them together
Hit call when Asterius winds up a spin
Theseus will instantly transition
Occasionally you can get Theseus to kill asterius with his summon also
mossy zinc
Or just spam Charm with Smoldering Air.
Pretty sure we have a number of runs on the high heat leaderboard that just charm Hades for 98% of the time with Smoldering Air and Aphrodite's Aid.
ember bronze
Mhm amazing combo
kindred panther
what and where are the high heat leaderboard
shy plinth
Pins
kindred panther
I looked at the pins and didn't see it. Y'all told me it was there and then I looked again and didn't see it. Stabbed at a random link and it popped up. y'all need to label that or something.
mossy zinc
The title is in the embed.
bronze viper
Okay, back to serious business. Time to continue this streak. Current streak: 2 smh. @bright mango How's it looking?
bright mango
I broke my streak of one to do a super dad run
bright mango
And worked on my hellmode save for the rest of the day
bronze viper
So it's going well. Excellent
mossy zinc
Well, I've added Hades High Heat Leaderboard just in case Discord ever bugs out or something.
bright mango
I’m getting sidetracked easily
mossy zinc
Sidetrack implies you're still on a track, at least.
distant cradle
Wut should I be running in terms of heat for 10 heat+
mossy zinc
Whatever you want tbh.
bright mango
Sidetrack implies you're still on a track, at least.
Well I broke my track
mossy zinc
It's very flexible.
distant cradle
Oko
mossy zinc
Best thing to do at heat that low imo is to just try out everything and get experience and practice.
distant cradle
Should I try extreme measures on max?
distant cradle
I did lernie and meg on it
bright mango
Well you could try it
mossy zinc
You should absolutely try it if it sounds fun.
distant cradle
Is theseus bad?
bright mango
But have fun lol
bright mango
Is theseus bad?
Not at all
distant cradle
But hades?
mossy zinc
You shouldn't expect to clear it the first time.
mossy zinc
Nor probably the second time lol.
But yeah, give it a try and experience it for yourself. 
distant cradle
Also should I grind out max aspects on the weapins I'm using first?
Like Im at 10 heat with rama
And like 5 with aegis
mossy zinc
You ask "should". We don't know what your goals are.
distant cradle
But 0 with all others
Well i wanna max the weapins, but idk which to do, and if they're worth it?
Like I use hera a lot but it seems eh to max
mossy zinc
"Worth it" also depends on what your goals are.
shy plinth
You are at the point of experience where there is nothing better to do than playing the game and following the dark thirst
bright mango
I don’t lol I still don’t have all max weapons
shy plinth
There's no hard and fast answer
bright mango
You are at the point of experience where there is nothing better to do than play...
^
shy plinth
Play the game, try stuff, see what works for you
distant cradle
Oki
mossy zinc
If you like to play Hera more than others, I'd max it asap, personally.
But if you want to try all the different aspects first, then do that.
mossy zinc
You can get enough resources to max everything, eventually.
distant cradle
I'll probs max one bow shield aspect first then
mossy zinc
So play at whatever pace in whatever direction you enjoy the most.
distant cradle
Oki
bright mango
I don’t even worry about bounties. I just play whatever I feel like doing
shy plinth
I followed the dark thirst, went one tick of heat at a time, and targeted my prophecies
Now I have everything maxed except titles and a couple crap keepsakes
distant cradle
Hmm I'll try following darkness for a bit then
mossy zinc
I think I've ignored Dark Thirst in like 98% of my runs or something lol.
distant cradle
Same
But at least it'll make me try out other weapkns
Since I've only used beo and bow
bright mango
I think I've ignored Dark Thirst in like 98% of my runs or something lol.
Lol same
I still play other weapons
honest kernel
I ignore for most of mine
bright mango
200 rail attempts
bright mango
These were just me dying with hestia a bunch
wintry berry
I have more attempt with Rama than Arthur and Hestia combined
distant cradle
I've gotten one clear on rama
wintry berry
Most of my Rama attempts are resets or me dying at 50 heat
bright mango
Hehe same
Although I’ve completely given up on any hopes of doing a 50 rama
I’m too bad
wintry berry
I should take a long break from 50 heat, my Hestia 51 and 52 heat burned me out
bronze viper
Yeah I've been pushing heat a bit much in the last month so I'm chillaxin and vacationing in some other aspects with the 24x32 streak challenge
wintry berry
maybe i'll claim 32 heat Lucy WR
bright mango
Yeah I've been pushing heat a bit much in the last month so I'm chillaxin and va...
Flexin by calling this challenge vacationing(it is a lot of fun tho)
wintry berry
as long as you don't burn out its fine
unique zephyr
I’m working on 40 heat hades spear, hard but fun
I like Hades spear a lot
Furthest I’ve made is asphodel but I’m having fun
mossy zinc
Owl Pendant start might make things a lot easier for you.
honest kernel
thats what matters most
bright mango
Owl Pendant start might make things a lot easier for you.
^
Hades 150% should carry it through tartarus
unique zephyr
Athena on attack? Interesting, I’ve been using artemis but the safety is nice
Athena attack makes the spin deflect right?
bright mango
No, dash right?
unique zephyr
Also, charged skewer is only good on guan yu, right?
wintry berry
On Hades too, if you have exploding
bright mango
^
mossy zinc
Athena on attack? Interesting, I’ve been using artemis but the safety is nice
For Divine Dash and DDs asap. Divine Strike can be good, too, but you can also go for Deadly Strike in Asphodel from there.
bronze viper
Lmao, back to zero. Did the forbidden Aphro/Poseidon trial with melee in Elysium
Maximally punished
unique zephyr
For Divine Dash and DDs asap. Divine Strike can be good, too, but you can also g...
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you, I’ll owl pendant start then adamant arrowhead in asphodel if I don’t have natural artemis
unique zephyr
Beat Lernie for hades spear 40, furthest I’ve gotten so far
devout quiver
Could say that you're
😎
Lernin
mossy zinc
Nicely done!
unique zephyr
So DD vs SD discussion: I like playing with SD I was just wondering if I was clearing less doing so
I do die a lot in normal rooms especially Tartarus though
And elysium
bright mango
DD’s 50 is just easier 64
unique zephyr
I shouldn’t pay attention to his boon choices right
bright mango
No
unique zephyr
Or builds?
bright mango
Just his fight
mossy zinc
also I waited too long for dio beo 50 heat <:shadegrief:520448187358642194>
It's perfect. You can claim all the ones before you were carried.
true fable
well
no
retrash makes very well informed boon choices
that work for him
and just happen to be very far away from the mainstream
bright mango
spearpoint
solar maple
drunken strike op
true fable
it really is op
bright mango
Zagius also op
solar maple
I actually do want to learn em4 now
That's the next savestate I'll practice
now that I got fresh file
bright mango
You should learn from his boon choices, not look down on them.
I was telling bacchus to pay attention to Retrash’s em4 fight since he was struggling
edgy arrow
retrash makes very well informed boon choices
i’m 100% sure this is true based on the results, but i still have trouble believing it
solar maple
tbf he does play with AP2 most of the time
edgy arrow
remember that time he did 55 with dash nova thunder flourish zag sword
solar maple
so you can't really blame him
edgy arrow
tbf he does play with AP2 most of the time
sometimes he doesn’t tho and i can’t tell the difference between his builds
bright mango
I’ve watched literally all of retrash videos multiple times just to see how to play the fight better
mossy zinc
Retrash also builds for problems you're probably not facing at heats than lower than his.
edgy arrow
i think a lot of what it comes down to is that he’s good enough at the game he wins with trash boon combos that most folks would die early or reset if they got
shy plinth
And his skill is at the point where the most ridiculous builds that don't make any sense can clear 50+
mossy zinc
DC2 alone requires a solution that DC0 pacts don't have to find.
bright mango
sigil 50 zagius
true fable
drunken strike
mossy zinc
Sometimes you need survivability for Hades, sometimes you need DPS.
true fable
youre listing keepsakes now
edgy arrow
like, he might choose mainstream stuff if he got offered it, but he doesn’t need to keep trying until he gets the classically good builds
because he a pro or something
idk that’s what i’m telling myself anyway
mossy zinc
I don't think he's sponsored.
edgy arrow
really?
bright mango
Once you can do em4 easily, you can just get away with anything you want at 50(sorta. Asterisk is implied)
edgy arrow
i thought he was sponsored by zagius
unique zephyr
Who or what is zagius
mossy zinc
Although, there is a suspicious amount of Hangover and Bladerifts in his builds.
shy plinth
Zag+stygius = zagius
mossy zinc
Perhaps, he is sponsored by those two gods.
bright mango
bright mango
Good passive damage
true fable
32 extra dmg per hangover stack on an enemy for the full duration i believe
at common
on drunken strike
mossy zinc
You also want to minimize the number of boons that can be pommed but don't benefit much from it.
solar maple
yeah it's actually not bad
mossy zinc
Hangover poms are always high value.
edgy arrow
32 extra dmg per hangover stack on an enemy for the full duration i believe
woah stonks
guess that’s a lot for zagius
solar maple
yeah that's ~+100% damage
a dash strike is 30
you just have to wait a while for it to work
shy plinth
Hence the TD2
solar maple
not a problem vs bosses, an he runs td2
I tried some drunken strike eris and the bossing was actually nice
I just suck
edgy arrow
i’ve only done drunken strike eris once and that was my first hell mode clear
i didn’t have zeus keepsake so i just hoped i’d see him, got drunken strike instead in late elysium lmao
edgy arrow
run was very painful and i finished at 41 mins
bright mango
Hangover is super nice
edgy arrow
that might have been for other reasons, but i’ve been suspicious of dio eris ever since lol
should prolly give it another chance
on paper it makes a lot of sense so i’m not surprised it’s decent
solar maple
normal rooms with it are annoying I think
losing zeus aoe an instant payoff is rough
the bossing is very good + safe though
mossy zinc
It's very good. It's just obviously not Lightning Strike.
solar maple
you can just tag the boss a few times and run away
mossy zinc
Drunken Strike poms are also much better than Lightning Strike poms.
mossy zinc
Static Discharge is not a pom.
edgy arrow
it likes eating them tho
solar maple
I'm going to make a nemesis em4 savestate to practice
doing 50 heat to set it up
and wow 50 heat em4 is so chill
I get to run RI0 and CP0
now if only I wasn't 100% dead at the end of the run
edgy arrow
“50 heat EM4 is so chill”
-Retrash 2.0
edgy arrow
oh lol
solar maple
I'm 100% dead
edgy arrow
i was gonna say, 50 heat EM4 nem sounds like an absolute nightmare
solar maple
I do think that TD2 is a terrible idea for em4 50 heat nem though
I'm exiting aspho sub 6
solar maple
lmao
true fable
i am having a lot of fun
true fable
apparently 0%
also can confirm
JS3 is much better than DC2
timer wise
for like
most aspects
idk
DC2 sucks
solar maple
yeah dc2 does suck
for practicing em4 which keepsake should I take? I feel like retrash would take spearpoint here
I have patty
true fable
think he said tooth in most scenarios
solar maple
sure I'll try tooth
actually I'll just make a savestate between biomes
to try a few + still get to try in case of 5 sack
I mean I did bank over 3 mins for styx but 5 sacks do be like that
honest kernel
savestate?
honest kernel
right ok
solar maple
I don't expect to actually win
alright got a good practice save
strong build but not absolutely absurd
almost full health from patty but lost the buff to 3 sack
and enough time
time to die 🙂
mossy zinc
Retrash — 03/31/2021
low damage high health > spearpoint, very high damage > acorn, else > tooth
mossy zinc
That's good. Tartarus has a lot of trash mobs that you don't want to reload for every time.
true fable
yeah its not bad
edgy arrow
mmm idk sounds bad
solar maple
maybe a bit annoying for armored enemies
but hestia one shots everything else with fiery anyway
other than maybe a cp2 lout
spice lava
53 heat Hestia ? 👀
spice lava
Same for mine, got away from Lernie with 1 hp 😄
mossy zinc
More evidence for my groundbreaking scientific theory that 1 HP is all you need.
true fable
also a level 5 heartbreak flourish on hazard bomb
mossy zinc
Rush Delivery and Hyper Sprint?
mossy zinc
At 50% it's still broken, anyway.
true fable
was a "free" 53 heat if there ever was one
shy plinth
Fifty-free heat am I right
mossy zinc
I wonder if the base damage from Hazard Bomb isn't so high that crits will almost always overkill, so that Heartbreak Flourish would always be better damage on your Special. It's a possibility.
On anything but very high HP enemies, of course.
true fable
idk
mossy zinc
I.e., anything but Styx minibosses and bosses.
true fable
i just slap high dmg thing on it and go
mossy zinc
Fair lol.
true fable
its basically just a slow moving cluster rocket
literally does 50% less base dmg than full cluster rocket volley
thats nutso
spice lava
My RNG was okay for 53 but not good if EM4: got ricochet fire first chamber, had to keep shackle during Asphodel and Elysium, I only got Demeter atk a little before Asterius/Theseus. The problematic point was replacing shackle with acorn, making the special useless because no boon... then I spent 1:04 overtime, playing patience with Hades 🤡
true fable
i had to keep shackle through elysium yeah
i got divine strike 😦
but it was okay because of aforementioned hazard bomb
also a PSA to anyone who didnt know
you can shoot hazard bombs over pillars in the dad fight
mossy zinc
For me it's merely a scientific curiousity and an unbiased drive to prove Lady Aphrodite's superiority in all potentialities.
true fable
LOL
heartbreak flourish carried for sure
if you wanna add that to your database
@spice lava how go your DC2 attempts
mossy zinc
Thank you. I will.
spice lava
@true fable Somewhere here yesterday https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/827880031320932412/unknown.png
true fable
not too shabby
mossy zinc
you can shoot hazard bombs over pillars in the dad fight
Is this truth or an ingenious attempt to sabotage your competition?
Both excellent options.
true fable
this is truth
very good technology
i learned it from crepes a while back
helps during lasers
spice lava
Tart is a bit delicate, Aspho is always the part when I can have some timesave, Elysium is always terrible depending of the rooms but once Theseus/Asterius are done... Styx is a joke because I generally have tidal dash + Razor so it's only about praying for the 2 sack to be comfortable
mossy zinc
Very good technology, indeed, albeit archaic. I hypothesize 21st century, Earth.
I've been watching too much Star Trek.
spice lava
And at the end, it takes time to adapt myself to a new decision making: is it always worth to take down DC2 skulls?
I already saw that DC2 can work at 50 and 52 even if I didn't clear them (Died on Hades P2), so I'm trying 56 to see if the strat has a value at very high heat
Idk, I'd rather settle a boon I need at Tartarus to remove DC2 instead of praying for a second dash appearing at Asphodel or Elysium because of RI3
spice lava
That's the future point if it 56 works: Adding EM4
But I need to test it at 56 first I think
But based on what I did at 50 and 52 averagely, it's clutch or overtime at the end of Elysium so that means starting Styx with 5 min as basic scenario https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/807672625739858000/827223678814650408/unknown.png?width=1246&height=701
I have no experience with EM4 so I don't know the time I need to be comfortable
true fable
im gonna be trying some 54 attempts tmo with CP2
although i still wanna do nem 50
ive found a pact that works for me
spice lava
tmo?
true fable
tomorrow
spice lava
54 Hestia CP2?
true fable
yeah
spice lava
huum
true fable
with maxed rooms EM3 DC0 RI2
spice lava
takeaway?
true fable
like what did you learn?
spice lava
Oh, sure
DC2 was the occasion to test different dashes: Tidal dash is probably the best to me because its aoe is good enough to damage what's in front of you (Aphro dash aoe is too little, Ares and Dio are not good for what's in front of you)
I could have done the Baby Hestia Tailesque strat to clear 50 or 52 but I'm just not good with Zeus atk
mossy zinc
What aspect?
spice lava
Hestia with DC2
DC2 changes a lot your mechanic: you need to be more agressive towards foes in order to remove DC2. It could be being able to 2 the 2 dashes efficiently before emporewing shot, or one shot, then dash, then one shot
But once you reach the sisters, if you're used to tidal dash, it adds a lot more dps even if you have no boon on atk yet
you most of the time have no other boon yet at the beginning so it's the one where all poms go which is good because of its good scaling
edgy arrow
huh i always though dio/ares dash would be the answer to the DC2 barrier
spice lava
After Tartarus I usually take earring to take advantage of tidal while waiting for an atk boon
spice lava
2 if you knock them on walls
edgy arrow
that’s true
i keep forgetting how much better most folks are at using tidal dash than me
imagine strategically dashing enemies into walls and not just dashing around randomly and hoping things die
spice lava
Earring makes Lernie delicate but if you're used to tidal dash, it's possible to clean fast
mossy zinc
huh i always though dio/ares dash would be the answer to the DC2 barrier
You need to consider both how they strip DC2 and how much damage they do after that, anyway.
edgy arrow
ares is decent damage in the right circumstances
but yeah
way less than tidal for sure
spice lava
Then acorn for Elysium because I tend to be more agressive against Theseus/Asterius so it's about overusing tidal from time to time, even if it costs me some acorn charges
You really want to have tidal + razor at Elysium to have a decent fast cleaning
edgy arrow
what heat are you working on?
solar maple
tidal dash is really good vs dc2 yeah
mossy zinc
The obvious solution is Lightning Strike + Tidal Dash.
spice lava
50, then 52, now 56 because I'm testing if it's worth higher
edgy arrow
iirc the folks who did 57 didn’t even have DC2
solar maple
one of the main reasons dc2 beo is somewhat feasible is that you can use 1 dash attack to strip both hearts with a wall slam
edgy arrow
are you only doing RI2?
spice lava
Yeah, I'm testing is DC2 is a solution instead of RI3
solar maple
you still have to learn em4 👀
solar maple
but dc2 makes that much easier than RI3
edgy arrow
not being able to one shot skulls is oof
spice lava
like I said above, it's a preference to settle tidal at tartarus and reset because of that than praying for a dash at Asphodel
edgy arrow
but yeah defs better than 1 dash
spice lava
It's aotw and because I kinda main Hestia, I didn't see the point redoing 50
so I tried harder with DC2
spice lava
then cgull appeared and trolled Astaos with the "Add DC2 and 52 is free"
edgy arrow
wait it’s aotw huh
maybe i should try 50
DC2 clearly free on hestia; just use lightning strike smh
lightning strike was good for baby hestia, clearly must be better for regular hestia
spice lava
well I was thinking about doing a clear before the end of aotw but because it's a 1 week deadline, learning lightning strike in 1 week sounded tough for me
Now whatever if I can't clear this week, the DC2 experience will continue
solar maple
yeah aotw is why I tried harder for hestia 50
edgy arrow
did you get it?
solar maple
I did
edgy arrow
nice
edgy arrow
oh did you still have reload on R or something
solar maple
I don't have thumb buttons haha
edgy arrow
works pretty well, otherwise i’d prolly use right click as well
solar maple
just a $5 mouse
edgy arrow
idk how i’d play this game without thumb buttons at this point lol
solar maple
what do you usually use them for?
edgy arrow
special and reload
mossy zinc
No thumb buttons on pad would be a curious experience.
solar maple
edgy arrow
my dance pad doesn’t have thumb buttons smh
solar maple
I actually can't play as well rn because my headphones are broken
mossy zinc
Can always treat the pad like an arcade stick.
solar maple
I never realized how much I use audio cues
mossy zinc
Being able to hear the direction of enemy spawns alone is already huge.
mossy zinc
The guys said that. I didn't.
spice lava
AP2 is bad
celest grail
shut up
mossy zinc
Good good.
celest grail
i got good boons with it once means its a good pact, and youre wrong
mossy zinc
Become one with AP2.
spice lava
The game having pity for you, it's another matter
mossy zinc
Then, you'll be able to control it.
celest grail
guys ap2 is such a terrible pact why do people use this im emailing sgg rn to remove it from the game wtf
spice lava
The duality of 1 runner in only 5 min
shy plinth
Is it though
kindred panther
Finally beat the bow on 32
My TD had run out, I was down to a split second remaining before I died, and suddenly my Poseidon call maxed out and I was able to stay at 1 HP while I killed him with it
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
mossy zinc
And then the remaining 18 aspects?
kindred panther
Lol I will feel accomplished enough to have just done one of each weapon type
halcyon flame
beo and zeus are good on 32 heat
kindred panther
I don't like beo. so slow
halcyon flame
zag shield can clear out enemies in a blink of an eye with pulverizing blow and deadly strike but the problem is that zag shield is an aggro playstyle
kindred panther
or maybe I just never got good with it
halcyon flame
beo feels weird to use at first
mossy zinc
Beowulf is the fastest in terms of clear speed. It's the go-to shield for speedruns.
kindred panther
wtf how
kindred panther
hmmm. any other key boons? I'll try it
halcyon flame
deadly strike for mirage shot
mossy zinc
Flood Flare and Passion Flare are both very fast and reliable builds.
shy plinth
Beo big boom
mossy zinc
Trippy Flare can scale high with the right build.
halcyon flame
extremely powerful only if everything falls into place
mossy zinc
If you want to keep things very simple with shield for 32, just keep resetting until you get Charged Shot in Tartarus.
Works on any shield aspect.
halcyon flame
also you wanna take chaos gates pretty much whenever you can
kindred panther
what about heat for beo? take off DC2?
halcyon flame
charged shot is great but i wouldn't say you should go for it to get a guaranteed clear
mossy zinc
Yeah, don't do DC2 at 32.
halcyon flame
damage control ewwww
mossy zinc
m not saying you have to go for it, m saying if you want to keep it very simple, that will do the most work out of any Tartarus start you can get.
shy plinth
What is your 32 pact?
kindred panther
like my ... go-to 32?
kindred panther
basically the suggested setup in the pinned messages except I can't do 5:00 with bow or shield so I had to swap out FO2 for TD3
halcyon flame
fo2 on 32 heat? eugh
kindred panther
yeah
mossy zinc
@gaunt fiber I think you misspelled "For Beowulf, take RI4 always."
halcyon flame
how fast do you usually clear runs?
kindred panther
I just can't clear the trash in elysium fast enough
devout quiver
mfw running FO2 at sub 15 heat
kindred panther
it's always elysium that screws me
halcyon flame
what are your usual run times at low heat
kindred panther
how fast do you usually clear runs?
usually as in.... ?
kindred panther
low heat? I've never really tried to speed run
gaunt fiber
FO2 is nice to take at 32, the pact is way more flexible if you can handle it
shy plinth
What are the times you see on the right
kindred panther
so around 15:00
mossy zinc
Just do this with shield. Easy. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/826029683053035570/Hades_1948.png?width=815&height=458
shy plinth
Also for what it's worth, the pact in that screenshot was the one I used for all 24 aspects
HL1 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3
gaunt fiber
What are the times you see on the right
Splitting bolt where
halcyon flame
i should get around to running fo2
shy plinth
If you want to not run TD3 you can bulk up on HL
mossy zinc
Or try this instead. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/824506475229216778/Hades_1772.png?width=815&height=458
halcyon flame
but i can hardly manage elysium with hera at fo1 so no thanks
shy plinth
Splitting bolt where
Never lucky
halcyon flame
...for now at least
gaunt fiber
BabyRage
halcyon flame
you're not seriously gonna recommend he takes ri4 at 32 heat like that are you?
gaunt fiber
It's not serious
mossy zinc
m serious, sure.
halcyon flame
goddamnit why do i always mistake the "i" in ri for an l
kindred panther
I don't use RI. I've tried RI1 before... that's not too bad
halcyon flame
not having rerolls is bad idk about you
kindred panther
cuz you can still collect keys for boon swaps
mossy zinc
RI4 is 8 free Heat.
shy plinth
Less boons period
kindred panther
yeah true. like I said, I don't use RI
gaunt fiber
Green good no green no good
halcyon flame
32 heat rl4 is basically 24 heat which is still pretty daunting with no mirror
shy plinth
Anyways the point is
mossy zinc
Green good no green no good
Two green, two good. RI4 OP. Free Heat. #h1-high-heat-strategies message
shy plinth
If you are comfortable with FO2 TD3
mossy zinc
It's two good.
shy plinth
You can set and forget that pact
mossy zinc
You see?
shy plinth
CF0 is so so nice
shy plinth
I'd definitely recommend looking into where the runs are falling short as far as time too
gaunt fiber
But I want 4 green
shy plinth
Watch some vods and see what technical things people do that you don't
At 32 heat with CF0 you should never really be limited by the timer unless your build just doesn't come together at all
gaunt fiber
I'm very technical with Eris
mossy zinc
But what if you have CF0 RI4. What then?
gaunt fiber
Zoooooooom
mossy zinc
What you said doesn't add up.
gaunt fiber
Pew pew
shy plinth
@mossy zinc then you win if you took Eternal Rose first
And lose if you took anything else
shy plinth
I thought you would see it that way
gaunt fiber
Yeah this Aphrodite program is easy to read
mossy zinc
Rude. 
m the high priestess of the Temple of Aphrodite. 👸🏽
m not a program, you bot.
gaunt fiber
Rude. 
solar maple
I'm doing an achilles run right now with my beo pact
it's really fun, even if I stand absolutely no chance
mossy zinc
Inexperience?
gaunt fiber
Well the beo pact is EM4
gaunt fiber
It's fun to take EM4 and be like "I don't stand a chance anyway"
devout quiver
comfortable FO2 EM4 is my endgame goal for all of Hades, tbh. idc about WR or crazy high heat or w/e.
solar maple
with DDs + HL0 etc
seems fine
SDs and 50 heat?
um
no
that's retrash zone
my plan for em4 with achilles was rolling hermes for quick reload
then doing damage with athena cast
devout quiver
the pact I strive for is EM4, BP1, FO2, TD2
could take or leave BP1, idk. it just seems kinda fun
solar maple
give it a go!
mossy zinc
My plan for EM4 with Malphon was to turn it off.
halcyon flame
well did you turn it off?
devout quiver
give it a go!
Soon! I'm getting pretty comfortable with EM2, BP1, FO2, TD3
mossy zinc
Best decision of my Hades life, probably. I've never lost to EM4 with Malphon again.
solar maple
idk why but I really like trying to make cast builds work at 50+ heat
maybe I'll just do what I did for poseidon sword and seed for cast on AP2 RI0 mom pom start
cheat in other words
what other cast weapons could I try
halcyon flame
i should actually run em4 sometime
solar maple
maybe hera if I ever get a controller haha
halcyon flame
i ran it literally once with unhealthy fixation chiron and never again
gaunt fiber
cheat in other words
Was about to say it
gaunt fiber
Nice
solar maple
to play a cast weapon at 50 you have to take em4 or cheat
devout quiver
EM-Fun 
solar maple
cast eris 👀
scint feast eris 👀
hm do I run pride or legacy for em4 achilles
pride could lead to a really good quick reload
but legacy can give mirage/lightning phalanx/ other nonsense
probably legacy
devout quiver
Crystal Clarity vs EM4 dad 
gaunt fiber
Green good
solar maple
it's just so hard to clear rooms with meme beam early
I've tried
but yeah that would be a fun ~40 heat run
I also think it would be really funny to do seeded achilles 50
without flurry jab
bronze viper
Seems just sad and cruel lmao
Reminds me of Astaos' "only standing attack" stream day with GY.
solar maple
athena cast is so much damage
you can do 500+ damage per cast out of tart pretty often
bronze viper
Too bad 3/4 of your time is spent collecting casts in the Aether lmao